Suboxone Withdrawal Symptoms – Sweating, Headache, Nausea, Insomnia, Anxiety, Pain…

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbg_photos/2663990728/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbg_photos/2663990728/

Why does Suboxone cause withdrawal? What circumstances cause these withdrawal pains and what are the symptoms of a buprenorphine withdrawal?

Why Does Suboxone Produce Opiate Type Withdrawal Symptoms?

Suboxone contains buprenorphine, and buprenorphine is an opiate – and like all opiates, buprenorphine will cause withdrawal pains when you try to stop taking it. Fortunately, because buprenorphine is a short acting and only partially activating opiate, the withdrawal pains induced are less severe than for drugs like heroin or oxycontin, and far less severe than for long lasting methadone.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/restlessglobetrotter/2149696743/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/restlessglobetrotter/2149696743/

When Will a User of Suboxone Experience Opiate Withdrawal?

With most opiates, this question is answered quite easily – if you stop taking the drug, you will feel the withdrawal; but Suboxone is a little more complex than that, and there are several scenarios that may induce some degree of withdrawal discomfort.

1 If you try to shoot Suboxone

Suboxone contains 2 active medications, buprenorphine and naloxone. Buprenorphine is the opiate and naloxone is an opiate blocker.

If you take the medication as directed (under the tongue) the naloxone is barely absorbed, and has very little effect, allowing you to feel the effects of the buprenorphine.

If you shoot or snort the medication, then the nalexone is fully absorbed, and blocks all of the effects of the buprenorphine (and any other opiate you might try to take) and you would go into immediate and full withdrawal.

The naloxone is added to Suboxone to make it harder to abuse, so if you do try and abuse the medication, you will feel withdrawal.

2 If you take Suboxone while high on opiates.

Before you take your first dose of Suboxone, you will be asked to stay clean for a certain length of time – long enough for you to start feeling the first effects of opiate withdrawal.

You are asked to do this to ensure that the Suboxone works as it should and does not cause you to go into a fuller withdrawal.

Buprenorphine (the opiate in Suboxone) is only a partial opiate agonist. What this means is that although it activates the same opiate receptors in the brain as drugs like heroin or other opiates, it is only able to activate them a little bit.

Buprenorphine has a high affinity for these opiate receptors in the brain. What this means is that if your opiate receptors are filled with pleasure causing drugs like oxycontin and you take buprenorphine, the buprenorphine will displace the other opiates in the receptors in the brain.

So – if you are high and you take Suboxone, the buprenorphine will bump out any other opiates, but since it is only a partial agonist, it can’t activate these opiate receptors as completely.

So – what happens is that you get an immediate loss in opiate receptor activation, and it is this loss in opiate receptor activation that causes the body to go into opiate withdrawal.

3 – If you take Suboxone while very physically dependent on opiates

Suboxone is said to have a ceiling effect. That is, it will work very well up to a certain point, but after that point, it can't really work any more.

Some people with heavy addictions won’t find that buprenorphine can give them enough relief from withdrawal symptoms. These people will likely need to start with methadone instead.

Likewise, although people can transfer over from methadone to buprenorphine, they must be down to about 30 mg a day before they can transfer to Suboxone and not feel withdrawal discomforts.

4 – When (if) you try to stop taking Suboxone

After finding your stabilization dosage, you can maintain on the medication indefinitely, and as long as you take your meds each day, never feel withdrawal.

If you decide to taper down and get off, you will feel some withdrawal discomfort. The longer the tapering down period, the easier the transition should be, and a 30 week taper is often recommended. When you do finally jump off completely though, you will likely feel some withdrawal.

Suboxone Withdrawal Symotoms?

The severity of withdrawal symptoms experienced will vary, but these symptoms are less intense than for methadone or other opiates.

Symptoms of Suboxone withdrawal can include:

  • Yawning
  • Sweating
  • Nausea
  • Vomiting
  • Diarrhea
  • Pain
  • Leg restlessness
  • Irritability
  • Anxiety
  • Cold or flu symptoms
  • Insomnia

These symptoms will peak in intensity after about 2 days, and should be diminished after about 5 days, although most people will feel lingering withdrawal pains for a couple of weeks or more after stopping.

More by this Author


Comments 3354 comments

rusticradio 8 years ago

Hello,

When would it be safe to start taking suboxone. I take Oxycontin at about 300 mg daily. After a 10-12 hour wait would it be alright to do the normal starting dose of 2 mg and so on.

Any and all help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks, rusticradio


Educated 8 years ago

2mg wont be enough. Take 8 mg at least. Normal prescriptions are for 16 mg but i found that after using for 3 years that 8mg of suboxone was enough.


fellow opiate user 8 years ago

I've been on subs for two years now and it is the best overall substitute for opiate dependence in my opinion. 300 milis of oxycontin is a lot so you probably want to take the max dosage allowed by your physician. i was on 120 milis of methadone for 1 year before I switched to subs and let me tell you i went about switching all wrong because of my lack of knowledge about the drug. inquiring like you are doing is a good thing and will spare you the misery that i went through.

like

i


fellow opiate user 8 years ago

sorry i submitted the comment to early...

Anyway......Like I mentioned before I was on 120 milis of methadone for 1 year before I switched. What I did wrong was that I didn't taper down to below 40 mgs a day befor I took 16 mg. I would personally ignore the below 40mgs and taper down to at least 10mgs a day, now in your case the oxycontin has a half lfe of 12 hours and methadone has one of 32 hours. What a half life means is that it takes oxycontin 12 hours for half of the amount you are taking to leave your body. So if you were totally clean and you took 100 mgs of oxy, 12 hours later your body still has 50 mgs left in it to get rid of, and vice-versa with the meth(16 hours). Now this does not include the amount that you have taken before. How it works is if you religously take 100mgs a day of oxy at 1200am..... at noon time you have 50mgs still in you. Now the "kicker" is if you like the way it feels and you take another 100mgs at noon at midnight of the following day you will now have 100mgs still in your body. now lets say you take another 100mgs 12 hours later you will now have 150 mgs still in your body. This is were your tolerance comes from. So you can easily see how much shit we still have in our systems to clear even if we didn't take anything even for two days..So in your case I would wait until you are smack dead in the middle of withdrawl to start your regiment. If you dont the buprenorphine (the opiate) and the narcan(the opiate blocker) in the subs will knock all of the residual opiates right off your receptors and put you in ,what they call precipitated withdrawl. In my case I didn't listen and 1 hour after I had taken the subs, I could feel the opiates being knocked off my receptors like a racked set of pool balls being broken with the cue ball. It felt like a rushing wave of icewater swept through my brain and down my spine all the way to the tips of my extremities. I was so sick for 5 days that I thought I needed to go to the hospital. Now the even shittier part about it was that I couldn't take any opiates to make me feel better because of the opiate blocker. I was stuck like that.... like it or not. So don't do what I did so stupidly. Take the subs when you can just barely stand the withdrawl anymore. This way it will work more efficiently and will give you relief in about an hour not 7 days.....good luck


CleanQueen 8 years ago

I went into percipitated withdrawal once also. It is the worst thing in the world. I called the suboxone hotline and they told me to go back on my opiates and try again in a few days. I tried adain in about 6 months. I did it the right way this time. If taken correctly it really works. And I was snorting about 880mgs at least everyday. You should wait til you are in pretty hard withdrawal and then when you tske 8mgs your withdrawal will go almost all away in about a half hour. The only problem is I have been clean for 4 months and I am really scared of getting off the suboxone. Withdrawal is what always makes me weak enough to relaps. I am so happy to be clean. I was a hard core oxy user for years, Does anyone have any suggestions for me?


off the subs 8 years ago

I was a heavy opiate user (heroin and 80's) for about 2 years. I was arrested and put in jail for a little bit. At that time i was just using heroin, I detoxed in jail for about 5 days then the symtoms begain to subside. When i was realesed I stayed clean for about 30 days but I knew that I wanted to get high from 0 tolerance. The next chance I got to use heroin I did, so again I became a heavy user switching between the dope and oxy 80's. I used heavy for about 10 strait montsh then I became so broke that I began buying suboxone off the street, starting at about 8mg a day and working myslef down to about 2 mg a day over a month period. I began to experience flue like symptoms while using the 2 mg a day and a couple days later was hospitalized and was diagnosed with various different serious illnesess. I stoped using the suboxone while I was in the hospital for two days, when I was released I used 1 mg to help me sleep one night. After that last night using the 1 mg of suboxone I stopped the the suboxone completely. I am now on day 12 of the suboxone detox and it is less painfull than the heroin detox but more drawn out. It took me about 9 or 10 days to get over the worst of the effects, where as just kicking heroin took only about 5 days but it was way more painful (Expecialy in jail). I now have no urge to use from 0 tolerance and am still recovering. I figure most if not all of the withdrawl symptoms will be gone after 30 days or so, maybe more. So in my experience heroin withdrawl is more painful, it just takes less time than suboxone withdrawl. I do not think I would have made the choise to get clean if it were not for the suboxone it did help me get off the dope and the bupe, I just want people to know that it can work, but the withdrawl prosess will be long and drawn out.


Kelly 8 years ago

I am just starting my wean off suboxone..Iwent intl a detox facility b/c of roxy's and anything else I could get my hands on.(this has been over 8 years) I'm 30! Anyway I supposedly was detoxed in a 600 dollar a night place, but when I left I woke up the next day ready to jump off a bridge!! I went to my doctor and he saw i was in full on withdrawl and so gave me a script for suboxone. It saved me....It took away all the pains but did not give me a high. I have been on it for 4 months and am just about ready to get off. Idid not have any problems with it counteracting with anything else. I will say though, that you need not bother getting anything once you're on the suboxone b/c you really don't get any affects like you usually would, so It just makes it a waste of money!! It is all good if you are ready...if you are not, then wait!!! gud luck!!!


Just call me, a friend. 8 years ago

Listen you guys, I'm 24, I was an oxy and heroin abuser for over 3 years...Did about 3-4 oxy 80's a day, and a bundle of dope on other days..I went on suboxone, and ended up being on it for the next 2 years..Suboxone is a crutch, and it is a miracle drug for sure, but what doctors don't tell you is that you really shouldn't be on it for more than 6 months. It's Nov. 24 2008, I just stopped taking Suboxone 8 days ago, and it was a very bad week of withdrawals....Not as bad as Oxy's or H though....I was tapered down even to 2 mg a day for months leading up to when I stopped...I've been hurting though, still am, but I think more clearly about things now and I already feel like a new person..I wasn't myself on oxy's or H, and I'm sure I wasn't either on Suboxone...My advice to all, would be to use Suboxone only to give yourself enough time to get away from the people and places where you used to use, After you stabliize for a couple months or so, taper down the dose 50%-75% every week or two until you get to 2 mg a day....and then do 2mg a day for about 2-4 weeks....and then just cold turkey it. I'm serious, tell your family, tell your friends, they will support you I promise...And take a week or so for yourself to get through the withdrawals of Suboxone. I'm 8 days in, and I was bedridden for the first 6 days, and the last 2 days I get these crazy cold sweats, not so much the aches and pains anymore, but sweats...I think the shit is making its last stand on me, but your will has to be outstanding...All you have to do, is think about all the things you used to love in you're life, and how you want them all back...Good luck to everyone, don't do what I did and use Suboxone as a crutch for years...I'm not religious, but I pray for those who are just like I was.


David White 8 years ago

Hi my name is David, i was eatin about 20 to 30 10mg lortabs a day, all i can say is dont wait till your 42 to get off, it can easily kill you, young people have a much easier time, i take suboxone 8-2- and it was a miracle pill from day one, im clean now for 4 months, and i also get a little freeky if i think im going to half to stop, i dont think you half to , its up to the individual, some people may just want to be comepletely drug free, but im not going to take the chance, not right now anyway and quit what literaly saved my life, i thout every breath would be my last, but when they gave me the symboxone, 2 times a day under the toung, i was set free, so to each his own, i just know the pill works.

Good luck to all


ashhead 7 years ago

I have been taking 8 mgs, I guess, 3 times a day for two years. Yeah, 24 a day because I have pain issues. The only dirty UA's I have had is when I spilled my thyroid meds, scooped them up, and got a few of my boyfriends penobarbitals mixed in. I mean, who gets high on phenos? Not me. Problem is, last week I took my Subs in my pack because a friend's daughter was staying here and I didn't totally trust her. I lost them. My Doc is out until Monday and it is Wednesday. By Friday night I was looking for anything and all I could find was black, so I snorted a cotton. Didn't get high, but not sick anymore. The next day I was able to borrow enough subs to get through, Of course, at my scheduled Doc appointment he UAed me. I lied and said I didn't use, but I am going to tell the truth to my counseler next week. But, the withdrawals were brutal! My Doc has to know that, doesn't he? He's an alcoholic. I've been clean for two years and I really do not want to go to out-patient treatment again. Hell. I was clean 13 years and a drug and alcohol counseler myself. He should understand..do ya think? But, addicts lie, so why should he believe me, right? I thought maybe I could have my counseler call him.


ashhead 7 years ago

I have been takin 8 mgs, I guess, 3 times a day for two years. Yeah, 24 a day because I have pain issues. The only dirty UA's I have had is when I spilled my thyroid meds, scooped them up, and got a few of my boyfriends penpbarbitals mixed in. I mean, who gets high on phenos? Not me. Problem is, last week I took my Subs in my pack because a friend's daughter was staying here and I didn't totally trust her. I lost them. My Doc is out until Monday and it is Wednesday. By Friday night I was looking for anything and all I could find was black, so I snorted a cotton. Didn't get high, but not sick anymore. The next day I was able to borrow enough subs to get through, Of course, at my scheduled Doc appointment he UAed me. I lyed and said I didn't use, but I am going to tell the truth to my couselor next week. But, the withdrawals were brutal! My Doc has to know that, doesn't he? He's an alcoholic. I've been clean for two years and I really do not want to go to out-patient treatment again. Hell. I was clean 13 years and a drug and alcohol couselor myself. He should understand..do ya think?


my 2 cents 7 years ago

I was abusing opiates for like 4 years, worked in a hair salon where vicodin and oxycontin were literally sold in our salon, by other salon workers. Needless to say, my addiction got so bad I really couldn't manage my life anymore. Every bit of money went to my dealers (well, at the time "friends'), and that's obviously not the worst of it. Eventually, by March of this past year, I was taking almost 500-800 mgs of oxy a day. Snorting. If I had no other choice but to take vicodin, it basically did nothing unless I took 15 to 20 and at least I wouldn't feel sick, but no high really. I am a guy, about 5' 7" and I was literally down to like 110 lbs, no lie. It was horrible. So back in March of this year, I ended up one day just not going back to that job. Was in withdrawal, started freaking, and decided to seek help. I ended up in an outpatient drug treatment program. They put me on Suboxone, which obviously saved my life, and I stayed on it for about 8 months. Towards the end, my insurance stopped covering the program, they dropped me because I couldn't afford treatment, and I decided that I just wanted to get off the meds. Now, what I did, was this: I had a script for 90 subs which was enough for one month of my normal three 8mgs per day. However, during the time in program, I was eventually only taking one or two per day because I felt completely fine from taking one. Also, I was, after time, starting to feel SLIGHTLY euphoric from three subs (two morning, one night). So, in a way, I had prepared myself for this experience.I actually made that script of 90 last for over three months, in the end, I was literally just scraping little pieces off, so one pill was lasting over 4 days. Redonculous, right? I mean, as soon as I would take that TINY piece, I was completely fine. What I began to notice, was that every morning when I woke up, I was already starting to feel the withdrawal. Legs hurt, chills, moody, etc. I assumed that if I just continued to take the little piece every morning that eventually, my body would adjust. Logically, this is true. In reality, I was taking little pieces for OVER A MONTH, no signs of the withdrawal subsiding, until two weeks ago today, I had no more sub. I decided, and braced myself for the events that were to come. The withdrawal was, in fact, pretty bad. Not nearly as bad as the withdrawal from oxy's, obviously, but was still bad enough that I was literally out of work, unable to even get out of bed for longer than ten minutes at a time. Granted, I was NOT sleeping, just rocking back and forth and kicking. The leg pain, for me, was intolerable, did not let up enough to let me sleep. I know this is a long post, but really this is what I wanted to say:It was, in fact, an intense withdrawal, something I would like to never have to do again. Ever. The absolute fact of the matter is that Suboxone withdrawal may be milder than oxy's or other opiates, but it is most certainly LONGER of a withdrawal. Like I said, today is day 14 - two weeks exactly. Though I can now sit through work, and can go about every day, I still have extreme sensitivity to cold, mild chills, mild leg aches, and I'm still running for the bathroom at least 3-4 times a day with diarrea. But I am starting to feel like a normal human being and I am truly thankful. I have not even the slightest desire to use, in fact, it completely turns me off altogether, thinking about what I just went through.What I personally stand advocate for is that when going on Suboxone, you need to find the RIGHT treatment program for your needs. It needs to be more than a Dr. prescribing you Suboxone and sending you home. Drug counseling is a must, and group therapy with other addicts is STRONGLY recommended. These two things gave me (if nothing else) the tools or at least strength and support to suffer through over two weeks of withdrawal and to finally actually know how to live a life of sobriety. None of us opiate addicts will ever be anything less than instant gratification seekers, and, unfortunately, with opiate addiction, there is NO EASY WAY OUT. But despite all the negative things I have experienced with the program, I do not have any regret, because it is what made me able to say "I just want to be done, and I will not cave in." Without the 8 months in counseling, I would have never gotten through my addiction.::sigh:: Well, that's my story. Should anyone have any questions, need support, or anything else you can reach me via email @ sean_so_sick@yahoo.com.

Good luck, and be well. Stay strong. It is only temporary.Sean


ashhead 7 years ago

My doctor will only write Suboxone sripts for long-term addicts over 35. I am 55. He says, and I believe it to be so, that all those years of addiction wrecks your endorphin system. I also know this to be true because as a detox couseler. my MA in Human Services, on the streets, as well as personal experience: withdrawals are worse the older you get and totally clean, older addicts have a more difficult time staying clean. Why? Because our bodies have so many more receptors in our brains from the drugs, so now we have more empty receptors crying out to be filled. So, for me, Subs will probably be part of my life-forever. I was totally clean for 13 years, then started using again about 10 years ago. Believe me- the withdrawals I had in my twenties and early thirties were like a bad flu compared to what I went through a couple of years ago. Oh, and only a few close friends in NA know I take the subs, because most people in 12 step programs don't think you are really clean if you take them. I think we all know that you don't get high on subs. You just get to live your life.


g-man 7 years ago

I think the original article is wrong in some respects. Sub does not have a short half-life like heroin or pain pills, which are around 3 hours. Sub has a half-life of 37.5 hours and methadone has one of 40 hours. Therefore, sub is very hard to get off of, as I am finding out as I type. My doc put me on maintenance suboxone for a year and a half without good reason, and now I'm having severe withdrawals (on my fifth day) even after tapering as he directed.

Looking around at opiate forums showed me that I was not alone, and that severe, long, drawn-out withdrawal is the norm for long-term users. Sub may be a great drug for a 2 week detox period, but should almost never be used long term. I went through a honeymoon period of four months when I first started sub, but after that wore off, I didn't feel so great. I was treating sub like the opiate it is: I couldn't wait to get off work and take my pill so I felt normal for the evening. I've been struggling to get off this drug ever since. These withdrawals just keep going on and on, and the intensity comes and goes, but can be as bad as when I was taken off I-V dilaudid suddenly after breaking my back and having surgery (I was on it for eleven days).

My doc was completely ignorant, I guess, of the severity and length of w/d symptoms. He always said if we taper, it will be no big deal. Bull!!! I was sick on- and-off the whole time of the taper (two months), and now that I'm off the last tiny dose, I'm sick as sh*t. And mad. I went to this doc originally after a rehab stint to get off alcohol and benzos. I still don't drink or pop pills, but my doc has me addicted to an opiate! Just know that if you get on suboxone long-term, you will either stay on it forever or really pay the price to get off. From what I read on forums, I may feel w/d effects for a couple of years.

I hope everybody makes the right decision. Get informed!


SubEater 7 years ago

If your feeling withdrawl symptoms for a few YEARS after taking suboxone theres definitly something else doing it. After being on subs for 18 months I wanted to stop. Once I dropped below 8mg's I didn't have that same rush. Once I was down to 4mg's I just felt normal--except I was paying over $400/month for the doc and the script. Today is my 8th day off and I still have chills, sweats, and leg cramps. Also very little energy.

The good part is that the worst is over. The first two days I felt shitty but I could still function--like shoveling snow. The 3rd day got pretty bad with the leg cramps and chills so I took 2 Vicodins which helped but I still felt like shit. The 4th and 5th day were by far the worst for me. So now I just keep telling myself the worst is over and it only gets better. It just threw me off since I was used to herion w/d hitting the next morning. So I was thinking the first two days that this sub detox isn't bad at all. Little did I know subs long halflife doesn't really hit you until the 3rd or 4th day!

I had all the same symtoms of being dope sick just not as bad. Now I'm just yearning for the day I wake up with no chills and I'll be good to go. Good luck all!


none 7 years ago

my boyfriend was addicted to h for almost all of his grown up life and when i found out he decided he wanted to get off and went to the doctors. they put him on subs and after being on them for about 6 months he is now adicted. He recently lost his job and insurance. Today was the first day he didn't have money to get subs and he is the worst ive ever seen him....I dont know what there is to do to help him...I'm hoping some advice can be provided...PLEASE I'M DESPERATE!!!! I don't want to lose him.


g-man 7 years ago

The first two days of my sub w/d, I was doubled-over with stomach pain. I should have been the picture next to the dictionary entry for "all balled up", because that is exactly how I felt. I don't know how I got thru it. Immodium A/D helped the stomach issues. Smoking pot helped a little, but short-term. This is my ninth day off after a year and a half and I'm still sick and can't go to work. Luckily, I was able to borrow some money to pay the mortgage this month. After about the fourth day, I've been trying to move around as much as possible, walking, etc. I was cold all the time, so if it was too cold out, I would take laps around the house like a rainman or something.


jeremy 7 years ago

i've been taking my meds as directed for approx a year now and just recently and over the holidays misplaced them. well. i also was coming on with a cold too so i was taking my add meds to overcome the flu symtoms. Within several days of not having the subs i began to have severe aches, diarhea like i didn't know was possible and not a wink of sleep. it took me a minute to realize i was in withdrawl but there i was on christmas in a miserable state of affairs. I mean, i felt like my body was falling apart, so you can only imagine when i found my orange capsule how everything was instantly fixed; what a sigh of relief. if i had a scale, i probably would've noticed it was shifting with the consumption of a steady diet of nothing. anyway i didn't even bother telling my doctor about my childish manner of losing chemicals altered specifically for my receptors instead i wandered into the unspeakable territory of sexual tendencies or lack of. he said it could be my testosterone levels and put a shot in me. blood test, he said, that's all! He said he wasn't comfortable with me taking anymore scripts at the time. well at the very least that hurt my feelings and i walked out of there feeling empty inside and discouraged that i either would have to start taking shots once a month or never be able to measure up to the llevel of love from my girlfriend. i don't so much mind having to put pink tablets under my tongue every now and again, it's just embarrassing if i have to go in and get shots once a month for the rest of my life. i remember i was a sexual dinosaur a couple years ago and now this. maybe i can start taking ciallis or something. i'm also in the 12 steps program and am currently taking three different controlled substances-i wonder if i told my sponsor about that if they would really think i was one of them. i mean, i have been taking the etg UA's for the last 9 months now so i'm able to prove i'm not drinking;which is what i thought the steps were all about.


jeremy 7 years ago

during the time i had the 'FLU" I was also experiencing random nauseau and repeated stints on the bathroom floor dry heaving. i guess this is not that uncommon but the whole insomnia deal was the worst i can remember and if i did decide to come completely off i think that would be my biggest concern. As soon as i got my hands back on my meds i was already day four or five on 0-zzz's and remember how well i slept the following night. Those that weaned off discuss sleep insomnia if it was part of the withdrawl process.


gman again 7 years ago

I'm sorry you had to sample the withdrawals of suboxone, they just keep going on and on because of the drug's long half-life. I'm on Day 11 of 0mg and still unable to go to work. I'm slowly improving, though, and promised to work Sat and Sun (the day after tomorrow). I force myself to do housework and take a walk, but it really knocks me out physically, yet I can't sleep well. Insomnia is definitely a w/d symptom.

The first time my doc tapered me to 0mg (way too fast, from 4mg), I suffered for a couple of days and then called him. He said to take more sub and we'll taper more slowly. After taking just 2mg, I felt great later in the day; my body just unwound and relaxed. I then knew how addicted I was to sub.

Your lack of sexual desire may very well be due to the sub also. I know it affected mine greatly. Now that I'm off the drug, the sexual feelings are coming back with gusto even though I'm sick.


7 years ago

This is one of the most inaccurate articles I have ever read.

1) Buprenorphine is both an "activator" and "blocker" of mu-opioid receptors.

2) Naloxone is not orally active, only when shot. It was added to dissaude people from banging the tablets. And it doesn't work the way it's supposed to anyway.

Buprenorphine is a long-acting drug providing pain-relief from anywhere between 6-12hrs. Long acting because it sticks to the opiate receptors and slowly dissociates.


SubEater 7 years ago

It's now been 16 days off sub and I still feel shitty. The worst is definitly over but I cant believe I still have slight chills, sweating under the arms, and no energy at all over 2 weeks later. This was coming off of less than 1mg. I split a 2mg pill into 4 pieces which even that was hard--thats why I only did that for a week before coming off it completely.

I know everyone is different but I'm only 29, good shape, and mentally prepared knowing I'm done with dope. I just can't figure out why I'm still having slight withdrawl symptoms over 2 weeks later from such a low dose. It has to be out of my body by now right? So why am I still sweating, having chills, and still have the runs!? I'm starting to get frustrated not being able to function after the doc telling me it wont be bad at all and I'll just feel like I have a slight cold for a few DAYS--not weeks. Even walking the dog for 5 minutes takes it out of me!


michigan4204 7 years ago

Hey guys. I had been addicted to any type of pain killer for about two years. I got on suboxone this past christmas. I was taking 24mgs of sub a day for about 3 weeks then i started to try to taper myself off (i honeslty cant afford to go back to the doc and gegt a refill on my script) of them. I have been completely clean for 7 days. The first 4 days were a cake and then came the 5th day. I now have to same pains and sleeplessness that i had trying to get off the pain pills. Like I said this is now my 7th day being clean and i just keep feling worse. How much longer can I expect feeling like this? Any help would be great. Thanks!!!


Angry as heck 7 years ago

These doctors and drug companies make me sick. They have no idea. I am down to 2 mgs a day and am about to quit Subs. Reading things like still in withdraw after 16 days doesn't make me very confident. Doctors should inform people what they are getting into. I kick myself for not doing more research before getting on Subs. And when people say the withdrawal is not as bad as heroin or Meth they are evidently wrong. The withdrawal is as bad it is just different and worse much longer lasting. Damn these doctors and drug companies. And damn myself for believing the pill of crap they fed me. So, here goes another two weeks+ of my life wasted on trying to get clean again. Clean from a prescribed medicine that I thought was a drug that was suppose to help me. Curses.


mike in boston 7 years ago

i am so depressed that i cant shake this stuff. i've been on suboxone for 2 years and 9 months all this time i brag to people how im clean. but as you all know our life does get better but now we're addicted to this !!!!im so fed up with this! i am on three 8 mgs a day now the doc i was seeng had me on 4 and a half a day please someone help me get of this alltogether im so serious someone must have a good plan cause god knows im just a soboslave email mikedhrty4@yahoo.com ty ty ty ty ty ty t y


gman again 7 years ago

I am finally off the suboxone. I made it 12 days on 0mg in January, but I was still so sick that I gave in and took 4mg. An hour and a half later, I felt great. The next day I got a migraine from restarting the sub. After that, I got so anxious about being back on this drug which I hate that I wanted to die.

I then found ibogaine treatment on the internet and went to Mexico for a week to a treatment center called Pangea Biomedics (formally Ibogaine Assoc). It was a miracle for me. Ibogaine is from a root bark in Africa and it is hallucenagenic, therefore illegal in the US. It is legal in Canada and other countries as well. The ibogaine knocks opiates out of the receptors, and then is converted to noribogaine in the liver, which blocks opiate receptors for a couple of months to allow the addict to get his/her life back together. The psychedelic part helped me deal with past trauma with the help the the therapists there. Google ibogaine and check it out for yourself. It is the ultimate detox.


7 years ago

Suboxone is no miracle drug. I've been on it for nearly 6 months for now, and have made multiple attempts at getting off it. I'm actually in day 3 right now. I won't sleep at all tonight due to restless legs, my stomach is doing what every addict is familiar with, the false pains may or may not come tomorrow. The withdrawal symptoms from suboxone are absolutely no different for me than coming off of opiates themselves. The one good thing about it is its a way cheaper way to avoid withdrawal than buying regular opiates, especially without a script.

I say this not to rain on anyone's parade, but to be blunt and honest about this drug. In the end, you will either need to make a choice to withdrawal or to remain on suboxone as a maintenance drug, which I'm just not willing to do any longer. It is a delayer of the inevitable. While it is very possible to make withdrawal less unpleasant for some, I can only speak of my experience and that of the people I know. The vast majority are still on it.


7 years ago

Just to also provide a little info on the "tapering down" method.......in my case it just doesn't seem to matter. I've tapered down to the point where I can take an 8 mg sub and break it into little pieces and make it last a week. I've been at that point for months. I have made attempts a coming off of opiates directly, suboxone directly, and tapering off of suboxone. The symptoms are exactly the same for me, the same order of occurrence, seemingly same intensity.

Do any of you think that the drug companies WANT you to be able to break dependency? It makes more sense for them to shift what you are dependent on, which is what suboxone does.


SubEater 7 years ago

Well, it's been a little over a month off the sub now. I feel like I'm about %70. The chills and sweating are pretty much gone, unless I get a bit of anxiety then I'll sweat a little. My hunger came back and I can eat pretty good again. Like others have said, the withdrawls seem very similar to any other opiate. For me the worst symptoms were my legs cramping up, the runs, and no energy.

While I'm slowly getting energy back I still have to push myself to even walk the dog for 10 minutes per day just in the yard. My biggest concern is still having the runs a month later. If I take Immodium I'm fine but I don't want to take it everyday. So the day I take it I'm fine, but then the next day the runs come back.

And I agree with you Angry As Heck, I was mislead by my doctor too. I went to my original doctor after falling off the wagon for 3 months after 6 years clean. I ran into an ex-gf and I figured I was moving out of state in a few months anyway. Horrible mistake. Anyway I go to my doc and ask for a 1 week supply of Sub to help with the WD's. He said I should stay on it for at least a year so the chemicals in my brain can readjust. I figured I would take myself off in a week and just save the rest. Well when I took the Sub I felt great! I mean I went from beginning stages of WD to being peppy and energetic. Of course I didn't stop taking them in a week, which lead to nearly a year and half on sub.

When I moved out of state the only doctors I could find were shrinks. I went from paying $80/visit to $220 visit at this shrink. Plus $400/month for the script. Money aside, I couldn't believe some of the comments this shrink would make. She said I most likely wouldn't even have to take time off from work as it will just feel like a cold, and that most horror stories kicking sub are from people with mental issues. On top of all that she would practiaclly brag to the group how many patients she had lined up at both of her practices. It was sickening. To be honest, that was the main reason I jumped off Sub when I did--she seemed like an absolute quack. Anyway, just wanted to update my situation and wish everyone the best. :)


I.Claudius 7 years ago

Subeater, I feel your pain. I stopped two weeks ago to the day and I sit hear sweating under the arms, stomach discomfort (no runs, but not normal either), insomnia. I was only on sub for 4 months, 3 of which were at 2mg from there I tapered to .12 -- not .25, so we're talking breaking a 2mg pill in to 16 pieces. I stayed with each drop for a week to let the hal-life catch up and then jumped. People always say it's not worse than oxy withdrawal, but that gets cancelled out by HOW F'N LONG the F'N withdrawal IS. At least with oxy, you can almost set a watch and know when you'll round the corner -- not so with suboxone. It just keeps giving ans giving. Did you enjoy the neverending insomnia or feeling like natives are stabbing your back with sticks -- that's always pleasant. Suboxone has done its job in some ways -- I never, ever want this hell again. It is a quackfest out there too. People who don't even have a clue of what this feels like just tell you to stay on it for a year or more. Most of them have 'doctor' or 'PhD' in their title -- LOL. It all doesn't matter as I've taken responsibility for everything because the 'professionals' just can't cut it. I'll never give my power over again. If that isn't an incentive to get sober, what is?

Claudius


shannon 7 years ago

Does anyone know any kind of medical insurance I can get privately? I live in WA state and I work as a server, so no mediacal from work. I have been on sub for 1.5 years, but never had my own script. My ex does, and he gets enough for both of us, but we broke up 6 months ago. He was still helping me for free, but recently moved out of state. I don't want to go off, my life has been so stable and wonderful since I started taking them. I don't get high (I take 2-3 mgs/day.) I am currently not working because I am going to school full time with a 3.6 GPA. I live in a tiny house and live use my financial aid to barely pay my bills. I don't have kids, so I doubt I could get DSHS to help me... I don't know what to do. My email is shenanins@yahoo.com if anyone has advice that might be helpful for my situation.


beaner 7 years ago

i have been on suboxone for 4 years , and i just went 17 days no sleep sweating chills and let say i had to give in and take little 17 days no sleep is totally impossible to work , so let me tell everyone suboxone is an evil drug and is in my mind impossible to get off unless u can afford not to work i could walk my legs were killing so much , and how can the human body gop 30 days or longer with no sleep , i really dont know what to do because i wanted off the evil drug that was suppose to be the dream drug well truthfully this drug is nothing but a drug company scam and everyone should know the real truth is extremely painful and be prepared to not sleep and to not work or walk so i have to say this drug is a scary addiction not any different than any other opid actually is worst the withdral last over 30 days i had to give in and take 1 milgram so i did loose my job so how do u get off this evil drug sub well plan on no work and no sleep and a lot of pain in your legs and sweating for 2 weeks !!!!


I. Claudius 7 years ago

Beaner,

I believe you brother. Now on day 24 and I'm still sweating. Anxiety kicked in too. I swear it took over 2 weeks for my pupils to unpin. *insane*.

This drug is the fucking devil.

Period. Make not mistake. I was on methadone for one year 15 years ago and I did a blind detox over 30 days to get off -- it was *nothing*, *nothing* as bad as suboxone. Beaner, taper down as much as you can before you jump and get some Ambien. It will take brute force will or animal instinct to get through this. Pray to God, whatever you have to do, but get off it because it's not going to get better the longer you're on. It amazes me that there are pom pom waving cheerleaders out there pushing this 'treatment'. Suboxone treatment reminds me of A Clockwork Orange.

Claudius.


dustybug 7 years ago

I just read every single post and I'm really dreading this. I've been on subs for a little more than a year. I'm down to about one 2mg each day, sometimes 2. I can go every other day with just one 2mg. But by day 2 the restless legs sets in and I work a full time job, I cannot be a (non)walking zombie. I'm so upset about this because I'm a f**ing slave to my doctor at $75 a month (which I understand is cheap and my prescription only costs $30). But I can't stand being dependent on this crap.

Has ANYONE tried using Requip to combat the restless legs and sleep problem associated with the withdraw symptoms??? My doc (ironically the same one who scripts me subs) gave me a script for Requip to try out. It gives me very mild nausea, so I stopped taking it. But, I'm thinking I can deal with the mild nausea a lot better than the crazy insomnia and restless legs. Anyone have success or experience with Requip when jumping off subs? Thank you in advance.

dustybug


enchantedmissi 7 years ago

my GOD this is all so discouraging! now i can see why the one time i did try to get off sub it just kept getting worse and worse. and i only made it to the end of day 3! i wish i had known that was going to likely be one of the worst days. i'm gonna give it a shot again. reading everyone's experiences here is giving me a strength and sense of comradery. i'm down to 2 mg a day (after 2 years), but apparently that isn't really going to make it much easier. i'm going to try skipping every other day to combat that half life somewhat. i'm going to try to check back and update. God bless any of you going thru w/d right now. you are already this far...you can do it!


I. Claudius 7 years ago

Getting off is doable, it's just rough. Taper,taper,taper. I'm on day 28 and I regret being so negative in my previous post, but hey, it was a heck of a day. Physically, all major symptoms except for lingering depression (always been there anyway) have gone. The longer you can stretch out the taper the better. Don't take benadryl for restless legs -- it will make it worse, my experience. Get Ambien or Percogesic. Percogesic is an OTC antihistamine / tylenol combo. It has a better antihistamine for sleep then Benadryl, again, my opinion. Clear your calendar for a week if you can. The first three days can't count, you can't trust on day three what 4 through 10 will be like. The symptoms are not violent, they just last a long time. Getting your expectations in order will help. Who knows, your experience may be totally different -- it seems like a crap shoot anyway, some people it's mild and brief some people not so. I apologize for scaring the p*ss out of anybody.

Claudius.


dustybug 7 years ago

5 days ago I stopped taking suboxone because I was having a partial thyroid lobectomy. I had to stop the suboxone in order for anesthesia and paid killers not to compete. They (the suboxone website) recommend stopping suboxone 36 hours prior to surgery, but I read other forums and said that is TOTALLY not enough time, so I gave myself 2 extra days. So I had suboxone out of my system for 4 days before I went into surgery.

I didn't have any problems going under. My surgery is a very mild/short procedure that only takes 45 minutes. They don't cut through a lot of muscle so there isn't a LOT of pain, but I was still scared sh!tless. They prescribed me 20 perk 5s and let me tell you, Day 1


dustybug 7 years ago

5 days ago I stopped taking suboxone because I was having a partial thyroid lobectomy. I had to stop the suboxone in order for anesthesia and paid killers not to compete. They (the suboxone website) recommend stopping suboxone 36 hours prior to surgery, but I read other forums and said that is TOTALLY not enough time, so I gave myself 2 extra days. So I had suboxone out of my system for 4 days before I went into surgery.

I didn't have any problems going under. My surgery is a very mild/short procedure that only takes 45 minutes. They don't cut through a lot of muscle so there isn't a LOT of pain, but I was still scared sh!tless. They prescribed me 20 perk 5s and let me tell you, Day 1 I


dustybug 7 years ago

...continued from last post...

Day 1 after surgery had me very concerned that I would be in a lot of pain due to my opiate tolerance. I managed to find perk 15s and that helped a lot more with the pain. Now is Day 2 and the only thing I'm battling is the restless leg problem from this God damn suboxone withdraw!!! I even took the Requip for RLS but it barely helped. The only thing that is keeping my restless legs at bay is the perk 15s, which I don't have anymore of.

I wish I never went on suboxone. My addiction was on the mild side compared to other users in this post. I was using taking oxy 80s or splitting them in half when I knew I wasn't going to find them. Usually one 80 would last me 1 or 2 days. I'm mad my doctor didn't tell me how much hell the withdraw from suboxone would be. I will keep everyone updated on what happens (when I stop taking pain killers, if I go back to suboxone.) I really DON'T want to go back on suboxone, but I just don't know if I can deal with the withrdraw yet...

dustybug


gman again 7 years ago

You can read my older comments from above. I could not get off suboxone after being on it a year and a half for depression (off label use). I made it 12 days on 0mg in January, but saw no improvement after the first 5 intense days. I broke down and took 4mg and felt great in less than two hours. But I got so anxious about being back on it a couple of days later, that I felt sick even on this drug.

A friend mentioned ibogaine treatment. I researched it and was on a plane to San Diego a few days later. It's illegal in the U.S., so we crossed the border into Mexico to get to the clinic. It works!!! In less than four hours after taking it, all my withdrawals disappeared. The psychedelic part helped me deal with some psychological issues and the whole experience changed my life. I am SO done with traditional psychiatry. I am actually selling my house and moving to San Diego to meet with the therapists from the clinic, as well as starting Hakomi Therapy, for about a year. Good luck to all.


queenie 7 years ago

i am on day 6 of sub w/d and i am still so sick i had to take a tiny piece of methadone (2mg) for my sanity! i was only taking a tiny piece of sub (less than 1 mg a day). i cant beleive this im a seasoned vet when it comes to w/d, 37 years old, batteling opiate demons for 17 years, this is by far the worst ever! i am forcing myself to eat and sleeping very little. Oh well, at least im not in jail!


Ms Reen profile image

Ms Reen 7 years ago

I took Tramadol, methadone and herion for over a 10 yr period. About 6 years ago after taking Trams for about 4 yrs at 1200millies a day I went to rehab the withdrawal was just like many in this blog discribe Suboxone to be. I went through three wks of 10 mins of sleep per day, restlessness, cramps, the shits, and nerve tingles which made it unbearable to sleep. The worste of it was gone afer about 22 days. Then the depression started. I was clean for about 4 months before I started the Trams again. After my tolerance level required about 1400 mgs a day. I started the methadone which only help lower the Tramadol dosage. Another horror in itself. I deside to stop the meth and increase thr Trams to prevent the withdrawal from the meth. Didn't work. It only esculated to Heroin. I took Heroin and trams for about 6 months until I went into Detox and Rehab January 7, 2009. The docs put me on Suboxone maintenance at 24mgs daily split into 2 doses of 12mgs. So I have been taking that dose now for 2 months to the day. It does work in a sense that I don't have any craving to use other opiates, but I sleep most of the time. I haven't taken any for about 15 hours now, so I don't feel anything just yet. But I can't take this sleepiness all of the time so I decided to stop for a few days. I came on this hub in search for answers about what the withdrawals would be like if I stopped all together. After reading the horror stories I sounds as if though I would go through the same withdrawals I went through after I stoped the tramadol. Damn, I don't know if my mind can withstand that type of hell again, but I am going to give it a try to see if it is as bad as I have read in this hub. I will be back in a couple of days to give an update.


queenie 7 years ago

Ms Reen- good luck to you and please tell me how you are doing. Because of my job in the health care industry i must be clean. otherwise, i would not put myself through this again. I am starting to think i really am mentally ill that i would continue to put myself in this situation. I was clean for 4 years and decieded to dabble a little and here i am again.... Like you were saying the depression is very hard to conquer.


PhillyPunk 7 years ago

Well I am really looking forward to the next few weeks let me tell you. I have been on Suboxone for about a year and a half now. I will be turning 28 in 2 days March 10th and well I need to grow up. I going back to school full time start april 7th and well have to quit my job to do so. Witch means I will no longer have an income or my medical insurance. I started to taper down 2mgs a week starting on fridays. I have weekends off from work and figure it be best to do if I will have to be ill. Everything was fine the past few weeks doing this. I was at 24 mg a day and have lowered myself down now to 4 mg a day after tapering for weeks now. Well had no withdrawl at all each weekend til I reached this 4 mg mark. The worse side effect for me is the anxiety. i had always suffer with anxiety but it seems the Sub has made it worse then can be. Also I have kind of been getting these blackouts were I zone out and driving for me has become a danger. I am sufferring more from the mental aspect of what Suboxene does to ones mind. I have researched this and learned long term use of this drug will cause depression and long lasting anxiety witch becomes worse after you stop. Rite now I am in fear for my mental health more then my physical. Rite now I feel as if I have been in a comma and that the suboxene has disconnected me from reality, I don't care if i have to feel sick and can't sleep. it the price you have to pay when you play with opiates, I just wish i was more informed on what the mental side effects were,because for me and the hell i have to live with day in and day out,could really make me a danger to myself.


Ms Reen profile image

Ms Reen 7 years ago

Queenie &, PhillyPunk the depression is worst when you stop the opiate use, (Including Suboxone). Meaning if you had already suffered with anxiety & depression before the opiate use think of it as 5 to 10 times worst than that. As I said in my last post, I was clean for 4 months, after going through the major withdrawals for almost a month I thought the worst was over. It had only just begun. My body felt 100% better but my mind was out of control. Rehabs or the doctors don't tell you if at all that the depression & anxiety will be tremendous. I suffered with Manic Depression for many years before I started using. Stupid me avoided drugs until I was 29yrs old due to my crazy brain. What led me down this monotonous path was severe osteo athritis and the docs prescibing me any opiate short of meth & heroin. After using the Vicodin and Tramadol for about 4 months for pain I stopped not knowing I was addicted to them. I got very sick after stopping the pills & when I took 2 pills I would feel better. Once I realized I was addicted I did not seek help due to embarrassment and thinking I could do it myself. I didn't know anything about addiction at that time. I always thought it was all in the mind and that people could stop if they wanted to. I'm kicking myself in the ass till this day for that belief. I'm on Suboxone maintenance because of the hell I put my brain through with the drug. A LOT of drugs. The doctors initially thought that because I used so many pills ( about 24 to 28) in a day and used up to 6 bags of H a day that I was trying to kill myself. Not to mention that because of using so much I had to take about 16 Motrin a day to conquer the migains I would get from taking so much. I guess subconsciously I was, but at the time I was taking that much because of my tolerance level. The Suboxone is making me sleep all day. I take 24mgs a day. So I stopped taking them for a few days to see how I would feel. Well, I took my last 12mg dose on Friday. Saturday I was able to stay up for most of the day and because I take Seroquel for sleep (and other reasons) I had a very good night sleep. Sunday I got up early and stayed awake all day. by the evening though I started feeling the anxiety, but I got another good nights sleep. Today, I'm shakey with anxiety but I'm not felling the physical withdrawals yet. I hope I don't. Because of knowing what to expect with the depression I can handle the anxiety better. It's the physical part for me that is the ass-kicker. I am not fearful of many thing, but that really scares me. Philly my man, all I can say about the anxiety and depression is "shrink it up." Go see the psycs and exlain what is happening. Trust me they will help. Stay strong Queenie you know what you have to do. STAY CONNECTED!!!


Lisa 7 years ago

I am trying to get off of suboxone AGAIN. About 7 years ago I got off of heroin with no problem. But, these Suboxone withdrawals are intense and lasting weeks. Last time I tried to get off of sub I gave up after 3 weeks. I couldn't handle the pain anymore. My doctor metioned something called Naltrexone. Does anyone know about this stuff. He said that it is supposed to reduce withdrawal symptoms but, my research says otherwise.


queenie 7 years ago

hi guys, today is day 8 or 9 not really sure. i can tell you my only symtoms are now weak stomach( lost 15 pounds) and depression. I hate myself! why, why, why?! Its so much easier to stay clean than to get clean. I remember every other opiate being bad too. Even H for me was a 10 day- 2 week process. I just dont handle this well. I almost wish i was around other people in a rehab, atleast i have company and disstraction. I am lonley but have no energy to get out of the house. Good luck y'all, its not easy but i do remember when i get back to normal it feels great! When is the million dollar question....


Queenie 7 years ago

i think this is day 9 of sub w/d for me. The worst is over but im not out of the woods. i feel uncomfortable in my skin and restless. I find buy taking long walks with ipod helps relieve some unwantd anxiety, im in Florida so that's do-able. Though my withdrawls are not violent they are still ever present and my skin is giving off a nasty smell. Long, hot baths also help ease some of the discomfort. I hope with Gods help i stay strong and never do this again ( i have gone through this many times). When you think about it....is the pain of everyday life any more difficult then this pain of withdrawl? i think the pain and depression that comes along wih withdrawl far exceeds anything life can dish out in sobriety


Shasta 7 years ago

Hi everyone! God bless all of you and I hope WE all find our way back to peace or forward to a peaceful future! "I will believe in you, if you will believe in me." said the Unicorn to Alice. 'Alice In Wonderland'. I thought It was appropriate. We are all in uncharted waters, arent we? I have been on Suboxone for 4 months after a weird 4 years of off and on again vicodin and oxycodone. My family has and is battled with cancer so there was a ton of pain killers laying all over the place all the time. It starts out 1 or up to 2 an before you know it, its 4 to 6 with 10-20 milligrams! What the heck! You are not yourself. Its like its you , but you are inside looking out, but its not you running the show. You kinda remember when 5miligrams would knock you on your butt. I am trying to get off the suboxone. I think it is more addictive than they tell you. I am talking about me and I think it might be a great answer for some! Dont forget it was the medical community that introduced HEROIN as a NON ADDICTIVE alternative to morphine!!!! Yep its true, look it up! I am down to 4mg a day and I felt the drop to 6 from 8mg I started with. I wish I would have just did the 5day withdrawl from vicodin 4 months ago. I found that I would have weird compulsive behavior on Suboxone at 8mgs. Adrenaline stuff like wanting to shoplift or gamble or drive fast. That is definitely Not me. I dont have any of those feelings now. I am afraid of going cold turkey after reading all these posts. I have read some that say they were ok after 5 days, but these are all people who were on it less than 6 months. I hope you all will be and are doing better. I am really gonna say a prayer for all of us. Remember: "Always rage against the dying of the Light!" I dont know who said it, but I love it and it fits!


queenie 7 years ago

i wish you the best Shasta. Today is 11 days off for me and i feel much better. My body has calmed itself though my stomach is still upset and i lost 15 pounds during this hell. I had weened myself down to approx. 1 mg (breaking into little pieces) and still my body kicked like it was H, just not as violent. Its 2 am and i am up after my 2 hours of sleep. This, and my sick stomach are actually welcomed and a sigh of relief after the fist week of sweats,hot and cold,vomiting and restless legs. Yeah! im on my way to being happy joyess and free! ps. my legs are still restless


queenie 7 years ago

Today is 2 weeks and i feel pretty darn good.


Dog 7 years ago

I have been addicted to opiates for a about a year and a half. I kicked the habit the first time about a year ago by using subs for 2 weeks. The dumb arse that I am, I was also taking Xanax to go to sleep at night, while on the sub. When I came off the sub, I also came of the Xanax and experienced the absolute worst anxiety I have ever experienced. I absolutely could not sleep for 2 weeks no matter what I took - Xanax, 50mg of Serequel, etc. Because of this, I got back on the opiates and have been on every since. Around October of 08, it really began affecting my work performance, as I would withdraw at work almost ever day in attempts to get off and snort an 80 to go to bed at night. In 0ctober of 08, I began taking about 2mgsof sub ni the morning and would still snort my 80 at night, so that I would withdraw. I came off everything again in Mid Dec, and fvcked up again in Jan. I have been on and off of subs and oxys since then. If I do oxys, I am up to 240 mgs a day. I am sick and tired of this sh1t and want my life back, so I began the subs 2 days ago and am taking them like you are suppose to, at least 8mgs a day for the first week, then will ween down.

A couple of things, I have plenty experience withdrawing off of both substances, and the withdrawals are completely different. When you withdraw off of oxys, you have the physically problems, especially sweating and the sh1ts, anxiety, coupled with severe depression. When you come off the subs, you are not nearly as depressed because you are not coming off of the "high". The only depression you have is due to the physical problems. With subs, you sh1t a little more, can't sleep, but you do not sweat. You also have a tremedous amount of anxiety. IMO, coming off the sub is much easier because you are in a much better mental state; not coming down of the opiate high. You physical withdrawals are mainly anxiety and insomnia. The best thing to do coming off subs is to get your arse up and keep moving. I am prepared for my sub detox this time. I have a lot of adderral to get my arse up in the moring, somas for the day, and valium for sleep. I wiill use these for about 7-10 days, then quit. I am so ready for this sh1t to be over.


Queenie 7 years ago

Today is 18 days off sub. Im sleeping 5 or6 hours a night and taking pepcid ac for my stomach ( works great). Im able to eat again. My stamina is not back 100% but its prob safe to say " i did it ! " PRAISE GOD! You guys can do it too! Not easy but doable


sandy 7 years ago

I stopped taking sub 4 weeks ago. The worst 4 weeks of my life.I am just starting to feel better. I thought I was going crazy.1-2 hours sleep for days. Severe depression. The restless legs were horrid.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Listen. I'm 72 days into a 17 year run. H to meth to H and meth, snorting Xanax for "fun"...only 10 years of that, and taking the Elavil and Seroquil....just to wake up and face the day. Fun Times. Detoxed from suboxone...after taking it 3 and a half years. 8 to zero was kinda stiff....so I broke and took 2 mgs a day after about a week, skipped a week, then took 1mg for a week. IMO...it's a wet dream compared to kicking H or METH (wheh....). Really. I was back to work after 2.5 weeks, wearing a tie... This stuff aint fun. I kicked EVERYTHING at once, the C included. 1-2 hours of sleep aint fun. Hard kick that other stuff...1 or 2 hours is what I got in 5.5 days before I broke.

IMO you have to take on the attitude that you will have to be the baddest SOB alive for awhile. Hard as a rock. Period. Period. Your success and your level of anguish will be defined by JUST HOW MOTIVATED ARE YOU. BE MOTIVATED. F**k the world...kick. Tip: OF COURSE IT SUCKS, OKAY...THAT'S A GIVEN. COMPLAINING IS USELESS....SO DON'T. IT MAKES YOU FEEL WORSE AND NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR IT ANYWAY. And finally...get in a program already. My favorite line from an NA book is "our best ideas got us here". Mine did. Now I listen to someoene else's best ideas...that actually worked. 72 days has its ups and down, it beats day 2, but it gets better. PS. I still sleep 1-2 hours a day. And I tell myself...if it aint ruff it aint me. Tell yourself that.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Listen. I'm 72 days into a 17 year run. H to meth to H and meth, snorting Xanax for "fun"...only 10 years of that, and taking the Elavil and Seroquil....just to wake up and face the day. Fun Times. Detoxed from suboxone...after taking it 3 and a half years. 8 to zero was kinda stiff....so I broke and took 2 mgs a day after about a week, skipped a week, then took 1mg for a week. IMO...it's a wet dream compared to kicking H or METH (wheh....). Really. I was back to work after 2.5 weeks, wearing a tie... This stuff aint fun. I kicked EVERYTHING at once, the C included. 1-2 hours of sleep aint fun. Hard kick that other stuff...1 or 2 hours is what I got in 5.5 days before I broke.

IMO you have to take on the attitude that you will have to be the baddest SOB alive for awhile. Hard as a rock. Period. Period. Your success and your level of anguish will be defined by JUST HOW MOTIVATED ARE YOU. BE MOTIVATED. F**k the world...kick. Tip: OF COURSE IT SUCKS, OKAY...THAT'S A GIVEN. COMPLAINING IS USELESS....SO DON'T. IT MAKES YOU FEEL WORSE AND NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR IT ANYWAY. And finally...get in a program already. My favorite line from an NA book is "our best ideas got us here". Mine did. Now I listen to someoene else's best ideas...that actually worked. 72 days has its ups and down, it beats day 2, but it gets better. PS. I still sleep 1-2 hours a day. And I tell myself...if it aint ruff it aint me. Tell yourself that.


queenie 7 years ago

Today is 3 weeks. I am starting to feel happy again. Still sleeping only about 4 hours but that i can deal with. I like what this cat (FUN TIMES) says about " if it aint hard it aint me ". That's real talk right there....gangsta! If your gonna play your gonna pay.


jaybow 7 years ago

Holy shit. Everything everyone posted is EXACTLY what I'm going through. I'm on day 17 or 18 on 0 of the sub. I admit I did take vicodin, about 10 mg's or 20 mgs a day for about a week. It helped get me through the worst of it, but what I'm going through now still sucks ass. I feel better, but still feel like shit. I'm starting to get some exercise which is excruciating but helpful... I hope. I can't stop sneezing. Does anyone else get that symptom?

BTW, a little history on me. I've been using opiates for 15 years along with a plethora of other drugs, but opiates just feel like home to me. I guess enough said.

Fun Times has it right. You have to have will like you never thought you had. Grow some balls, I don't care if you're a woman or a unic, grow a pair and get off the shit. The only way to do it is the hard way. Piece of advice, take at least a couple weeks off of work unless people at work are either clueless or understanding of your situation.

Don't give up, stay the course. It's not going to get any worse. BTW, stop bitching and just do it. If I can anybody can... and I mean ANYBODY can. I'm not necessarily known for my willpower.


Queenie 7 years ago

Yes Jaybow, Im 22 days off and still sneezing! That and 5 hour sleeps are all that's left of w/d symtoms.


jaybow 7 years ago

God smiled on me last night. I work construction and went back to work doing some manual labor type stuff yesterday. It sucked bad. I came home, ate dinner and fell asleep around 11:00. I didn't wake up until 9:00 this morning.

So I guess my advice to the insomniacs is hard manual labor. It bites because your tired. I had only gotten about 10 hours of sleep total the last week. I slept like a baby last night though and the only difference is the exercise.


Irish Girl 7 years ago

Sneezing, tell me about it. I can't stop. I was an oxy addict for the best of two years. Went on methadone for 7 months then slowly to suboxone. Literally, sept-Jan I took no more than 2mg/day. Then the taper began, what a rude awakening- just to realize how dependent we are. You have to remember suboxone is such a powerful drug 40x that of morphine. So i'm hurting like the rest of us, but tapering is key. What I did the last 3 months is wait until withdrawal gets to where I can't handle it and take the smallest piece (prob .25mg) and do it again in 72 hours. This has worked, i'm not sleeping great, don't feel very motivated, and depressed. But, I can function and i'm on day 4 of nothing. Part of my is so deathly afraid it will hit me like a ton of bricks, but I will brace myself. I've had enough of being dependent ! Get it done now or get it done later... its always going to be worse later. Keep your chins up everyone, just being here is half the battle, not using that is. Good luck & God Bless!


FUN TIMES 7 years ago

Okay. I'm glad this site exists, especially if it helps anyone (GOD willing)...but I'll be honest...I'm glad I didn't read it 70 days ago...because I didn't need ANY negative thoughts back then. I had a singular purpose...I was going to quit suboxoxe and everything else...understanding that in theory it may kill me...but knowing it wouldn't. Now...I'm cool. To me, the bitch about it wasn't the pain. 100% Honestly...I couldn't feel pain (I can now)...my body was shut down NUMB. I took showers with the heat full blast and no cold 3 times (or more) a day. I can't do that today...it burns...but my pain receptors just shut down back then. I was numb for many days.

In the beginning this was a twofold SOB. First, I think something worse than pain is being UNCOMFORTABLE. That's kicking H in a nutshell. It doesn't hurt per se, but F**K it's uncomfortable. And it stays uncomfortable...forever (it seems). I know there's the back pain, stomach cramps, leg cramps...etc., but I would have just about traded my soul back then to be a clean man with a cramp. Shit. I'll settle into some pain...but this ongoing feeling of being severely uncomfortable was not fun. Whatever, it's over.

The mind F**K that this stuff can (at times) put you through can be unpleasant as well. TIP: I went through ULTRA RAPID DETOX (REALLY FUN TIMES THERE!!!!!!) where they put you under anesthetic and pump you full of naltrexone until all of the opiates are out of your body. They cycled me THREE times that night...one is normal. Wow! That was not fun at all...I found out later it was like going through an epilectic or diabetic seizure...for about two or three hours straight, give or take. I was leaving AMA after dropping 7.5 grand, and the doctor/sadist raced in and gave me a sheet of things to do to stay clean. NUMBER 1: SHOWER EVERY DAY AS SOON AS YOU WAKE UP....EVEN WHEN IT'S THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO. That was worth the 7 grand. I took a lot of showers these last weaks. There is both a physical, but more importantly PSCHYCOLOGICAL BENEFIT to showering often. It confuses your mind. One minute it's "poor this me...this sucks" and the next "what the hell am I doing in this water". It makes you forget the "this sucks" for at least a brief respite. I was confusing the shit out of my mind. While laying on the floor (which was the most comfortable place to be) I would decide..okay...time to lift weights. It was really strange. I was lifting weights, and my mind mind was sort of thinking..."what's going on man...what are you doin?". The hard part was getting off the floor. TIP: Confuse your mind. Do silly shit...really. Walk...run...fly...just move. Go here, go there, get out out of the house. My legs were sore, so I casually wrapped some turnicets around them as tight as I could, figuring it would cut off the blood supply and reduce the cramps. Thighs and calves at one point. I'm not promising it cured anything (I thought it was a fun idea), but it took my mind off my problem...being upset that my legs hurt. MOST OF ALL LAUGH. I GOT TO THE POINT ONE NIGHT ABOUT THREE AM AND JUST STARTED LAUGHING SO HARD AT THIS KICK...IT WAS BRUTAL...IT WAS HYSTERICAL THAT ANYTHING COULD BE SUCH A Son of a BITCH. Wow...For real. Now I would like to thank GOD for starting to fill that empty space where the drugs used to go. I didn't know it, but HE carried me through this situation. Trust in HIM....and everyone...I WILL PRAY FOR ALL OF YOU. For real. Even though I don't need to, because all you MF*****S ARE STRONG, WHETHER YOU REALIZE IT OR NOT.


Dillon 7 years ago

i was a very highly addicted opiate addict and i thank god for suboxone!


queenie 7 years ago

one step at a time dillon. Have tried getting off yet? Or maybe the concensus is wrong....


7 years ago

I'm currently working in India for the next 6 months (i've been here about three weeks) and couldn't get any more scrips for suboxone. I still have a full bottle of 8mg but figured i should get off sooner rather than later since i can't get any while i'm out here. I was snorting over 180mg of oxy a day and h if i couldn't find oxy for almost 2 years (that doesn't include the 6 years of abusing every other drug know to man). I've been on subs for a little of 5 months and am current;y on day 6 of withdrawal. I am so f-ing miserable. I can't stop sneezing, running to the bathroom and i can't sleep more tha 3 hours at a time. The worst for me is the overwhelming anxiety that i have been dealing with my whole life but is now intensified beyond belief. I am in India with a few people from work and have NO ONE to talk to and no support system here (no English AA or NA meetings either). I'm so glad i found this site..i spent the past two hours ready EVERY single post and feeling a little less alone. I've gone through opiate withdrawal almost 8 times already and this is like nothing i have dealt with before...it just keeps going and going.. Also every other time i detoxed a smoked pot every hour, had xanax or gabapentine. I feel like this is never going to end. Any words of advise??


Queenie 7 years ago

It will end K and hold on. I believe around day 8 it becomes easier to deal with. I think the key is to keep moving even though you dont want to. My muscles became sore so i used Icy Hot and drank a lot of water. Also i used pepto and Pepcid ac for my stomach around 8 to 15 days in to w/d. If its any consolation, im 4 weeks monday and im so glad i stayed strong i feel great!


7 years ago

Thanks Queenie :) I think the worst part for me is the constant sour stomch and inability to sleep more than 3 hours at a time (the rest of the symptoms i can deal with). That is what i loved about opiates and suboxone...just being able to sleep well for a full night and stop all the racing thought in my head. Will i ever get that feeling back?? It's been seven days and i'm so tempted to take just a tiny little piece to help myself sleep tonight. Will that just prolong my w/d?


queenie 7 years ago

Well K, i took tiny pieces of methadone (like 1 mg) when i had really bad times i did this up until about 10 days. I read some people took sub but that is what your trying to rid your body of so that's why i choose the done just to aid me through. Tommorrow makes one month and im still not sleeping more than 5 hours at a time but ive done this afew times in my life and the havoc we put our bodies through does not undue itself overnight. I lost 15 pounds the first two weeks so i know what your going through with the stomach. I am now eating great and have gained 5 back. Stay strong you will be restored to the person you were ment to be! ps. get pepcid ac for your stomach


7 years ago

Yea the stomach pain and sleeping is what is killing me. I've already lost 10 pounds in 8 days I wish I could get my hands on something to ease my pain, but i have no connections in India (specifically pot or hash)... I also don't want to undo all of the work that i have already done by taking the sub. I can't sleep more than an hour at a time and get in max 3-5 hours a night. I have some Ambien but don't want to take it everynight..then i will totally f-up my sleeping pattern. I can't find Pepcid AC out here, but i'vebeen chugging Kaopectate and taking Clonidine at night. I did not realize this would be so drawn out. My DR made it sound like regular opiate w/d (5-7 days and that's it)...i was not expecting such long lasting pain. But i guess part of that is my fault for using opiates for so long and then just switching it to suboxone.. Thanks for the support Queenie! Heading to work soon..another day of cold sweats in 95 degree weather.


opp adict 7 years ago

subutex does not have an opiod blocker so you can switch to it with out having to wait. After all thats what its meant for too stop withdraw. It is not as strong as other opieates but it will get rid of your pain. But if your on it your body still wont start to reproduce its natural morphine. so the only way to fix your brain is to stop all opiates and over time your mind will repair itself. The longer you have been using the more painful it will be and the longer it will take. Your body will no longer crave it once it is producing its own morphine again. Like i said if you have been using for 5 years then it will probablly take 5 years to recover. that's why it is so hard to quit. Subutex is very strong you can get really high if you are clean for few months and your tolerance to opiates is gone. Subutex and suboxe only show up in your fecile matter. So pee tests are of no use.


opp adict 7 years ago

k props for going to work while your in withdraw. Your a strong person in a month you will be sleeping good again and your symptoms will be greatly reduced. Just some goosebumps, akwardness in social settings and some soarness but that is a lot better than the first 3 weeks. I find its easier to prolonge the withdraw by taking few days off sub. Than taking 2mg for one day than taking a week off then taking 1mg than taking two weeks off. instead of being in pain for a whole month your brain will slowly repair itself when your not on it so when you stop completely it will not be nearly as painful.It doesn't mattter what opiod your on meth or sub or vic the less you take the less pain you will expierence in withdraw. get your self on a really low dose like .5 or 1 mg a day for a couple months then take a couple weeks off then take only one dose than two weeks off ect. It will be hard to stop have somone hold on to your medicine it is the best way to greatly reduce withdraw pain. It is not how much you take but how long you give your mind time to repair itself. I you can only do one day at first it still helps. your body can only start to repair if you are not taking anything. If you stoped for two weeks and then went back to a really low dose for three days your body will be back to how you felt on the 11th day so you got some relief and now your withdraw is only as bad as it was on the 11th day not the first day or week wich is the worst.The longer you stop using the more your tolerance goes away wich is how you ween off. You will have pain but I think going through pain a few days at a time is better than 3 or 4 months straight. That's what it is meant for. Taking every day is just a substitue and is only making things worse. Doctors say it only takes 5 days but that's only because the worst days are the first 5 about every 5 days you will feel a little better.Depending on the amount and length of time you have been using the longer it will take. I never new opiates could be so fuckin horrible. I have been addicted to many drugs and this is right next to ghb when it comes to withdraw. Even coke isn't as bad that just makes you really depressed plus coming down makes you not want to do it and unlike opiates wich keep you high all night. Coke only works for and hour than its all down hill after that. Benzo's are next they just give you some anxiety and then it switchs to massive rage where you get into fights but I rather feel like that then opiate withdraw. Last is weed I wouldn't mind taking during the mild part of opiate withdraw it would work great but unfortuantly I cant. That would get rid of mild pain hot flashes and insomnia and deppresion. Withdraw from weed is easy just work out to release endorphines and feel relaxed and get used to going back to your prespictive you have on life wich is very different than that of when your smoking weed. When I smoked weed I would feel like I cant believe I acted like that when I was sober. It gives you such a better prespictive on how to act in life that is why I like it so much.


7 years ago

Hey opp.. how long are you off? its so funny that you mentioned having someone hold my meds. I carry them around with me everywhere i go and i look at the bottle about 10 times a day. Part of what is making this so hard is that i still have a full bottle of 8mg pills. although it kinda sounds weird, carrying them on me all the time and knowing that at any minute i can cave, has actually made me stronger. If i don't have them on me it turns into this temptation that i have to have so i can feel better..instead keeping them constantly in eye sight just reminds me of how much pain and trouble this has been thus far and how it is my choice to stop, not something that i'm stuck doing cuz i ran out. I've gone through almost every type of withdrawal multiple times and this is by far one of the worst. It reminds me of those few hours right after you run out of coke, except this lasts for an eternity..i've never been more strung out and weak and anxious in my life. i can't eat or sleep and am back to weighing 100lbs. but again...this is something that i did to myself so i can't get angry at anyone but me. i'm still searching for hash to help ease some of my body pains, but it's not looking too promising...


wronged 7 years ago

I am going on my 3rd week of Suboxone detox. My questions is, has anyone been experiencing terrible headaches that will not go away - no matter what! Also, does it really take longer than 3 weeks to regain your strenth, and your weight? This is really hard! Thanks for anyone who can answer!


dustybug 7 years ago

I caved and went back on suboxone after my I stopped taking opiates from my surgery (and the perk 15s (and 1 oxy -I know , bad)). I didn't want to go back on subs, but I ran out of opiates and couldn't deal with the RLS. My logic was if I had enough opiates to get me through the sub withdrawl, I could kick the subs and I could get through the opiate withdrawl in half the time (I can see this sub withdrawl is going to be 3-4 weeks at least). Well that plan went belly up and I told my sub doc about my idea and he vetoed that saying I should taper down to where I'm taking a CRUMB of a 2mg every 2 days. Got him to prescribe me neurontin and to see if that'll help with the RLS. I took 2 mg sub yesterday (my job is crazy strenuous so I needed it) and today is my day off and took 1 mg. Took 1200mg of neurontin and I'm still feeling antsy but I'm going to bed... is there ANYBODY out there who had success and a mild sub detox by tapering like this and taking gabapentin/neurontin?? I'm trying to keep my eye on the prize... I'm 26 and in the next 2-3 years my husband and I would like to start a family. I will not carry a baby and take suboxone. no no no


dustybug 7 years ago

gman, how much did you pay for your ibogaine treatment? I googled ibogaine like you said and what I read was pretty convincing, but I did read there's a number of people who died from ibogaine and they're unsure of the reasons. Here's a quote, "Several people are known to have died during treatment, and there may in truth be many more, given that ibogaine is frequently administered in surroundings where people may be reluctant to contact the authorities in the event of something going wrong...there is simply nowhere near enough data to draw any realistic conclusions as to why these deaths have occurred. Taking too much of the drug; using stepped doses, (ie: half a gram followed by another later on); being excessively thin; or suffering from liver or heart problems have all been suggested as dangers..." (http://www.relfe.com/ibogaine.html)

Sorry for the long post, but Gman what was your experience? Did you go to a sketchy detox facility or was it regulated?


7 years ago

Dustybug - i used gabapentine to go through opiate withdrawal a few times already. Unfortunately i do not have anything left for this round, but it certainly helps. It will not only help with your RLS but it will help when you are trying to sleep as well. I came off of oxys and h using it and the gabapentine + weed really took the edge off. But again...suboxone detox is a whole other animal and lasts much longer that any other detox i have ever gone through...well possibly the exception of Zoloft, but again, the weed really helped me there too. God damn..i need to find some weed out here.

Wronged..i'm on day 9 and i still feel horribly weak and like i am going to pass out all the time. Has your sleeping improved?? I'm really holding out in hope that i will sleep again without help from drugs.


dustybug 7 years ago

K - As for feeling like you're gonna pass out, that's probably from lack of sleep.. How about some melatonin? It's a vitamin supplement that you take at night for sleep (not gonna be a miracle but it might help you relax). In the states they have this stuff I saw at the drugstore in the vitamin isle its a combination of Valerian root and Melantonin. Might be worth checking out..

I'm not in withdrawl yet, I'm just tapering. But I take extra strength melatonin before bed and it helps me relax. It's not gonna knock you out like Ambien (obviously) but if you're trying to sleep again without drugs melatonin & valerian might help a little. I think when it's time for me to completely jump off subs I'm going to make sure I have a full script of neurontin, stock up on icy hot patches for my legs, Pepcid AC, and make sure the spare bedroom in my house is nice and comfortable so my husband doesn't divorce me! He's totally clueless to all this and never had an addiction problem in his life.


wronged 7 years ago

I am on day 25 detox from Suboxone. I My headaches are actually not as intense. I got on the scale and have gained 2 lbs.

K - As for sleep, the only way I could handle not sleeping at night was to take Ambien. At least it's non-narcotic. I feel a little stronger, even though it is still in the morning. I see, however, each day it gets a little better. It is just a slow process. Don't give in, and don't give up!


FUN TIMES 7 years ago

Hmmmn. Today is day 81 with no subs...still no fun...but much better than before. I actually had some serenity this weekend. Between Saturday and Sunday I slept 30 hours, give or take. My body just broke down and crashed. That was cool. I laid there watching college hoops in a trance when I awoke every few hours...with the sound off...but I was COMFORTABLE.

In the beginning....I took a bunch of Immodium AD and ate a ton. I decided if I wasn't going to put drugs into my body I was sure the hell going to put something in it. So I gained like 20 pounds from eating and just laying around. No troubles...it beats rolling up and down the West Side of Chicago everyday, asking every banger I see if he's cool. Its bad when they know you so well strangers start asking if your cool. I would also recommend a nice blend of Mr. Jack Daniels and Bailey's Irish Cream...as desired. Knock yourself out. I can buy that at the supermarket/ any liquor store around and drink legally at home and chill.

For those who are suffering...if you can...get some benzos. I was so F'ed up I quit those too...but if I wasn't a raging addict...I would recommend chilling with a nice meal, drink, and some clonipin or valium. You'll notice on some Seroquil sites that it is being used "experimentally" to help junkies. That shit if a bona fide horse tranquilizer. If you don't have a tolerance it is one and lights out. Catch up on sleep time. Hell...I never took more than one. Good luck to all.


dustybug 7 years ago

Been doing some research on how to lessen the withdrawl symptoms for when I jump off subs. Haven't seen anyone here mention the "Thomas Recipe." It's kinda what we've already been talking about but I'll publish the link for everyone.

It involves a prescription for Valium, Xanax, or Klonipin, L-tyrosine, Immodium, a strong mineral supplement with 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium, and Potassium, Vitamin B6 capsules, and access to frequent hot baths/jacuzzis. The recipe has a disclaimer (and that goes for me too) and has a schedule of how to take the ingredients (times of day, etc).

I do have some reservations with this so-called recipe. A potassium supplement is NOT recommended for females taking some forms of the birth control pill. (I'm taking Yaz and I actually skimmed the manual and it said it can increase potassium levels! And basically not to supplement potassium while taking it cause it can cause major problems.) Zinc too I have some reservations with.

The L-Tyrosine helps stabilize hormone levels, stress, cold, fatigue, sleep deprivation. I've read on other forums this really does help and improve withdrawl symptoms.

1 more thing! I read in another forum that "Hylands Leg Cramps" (it's a OTC homeopathic pain medication available at Walmart,CVS,Walgreens,etc) works really well!! For myself, at nighttime I'm going to take my gabapentin (neurontin), the Hylands Leg Cramps, along with either tylenol PM or an herbal substitute like melatonin (or both). If the gabapentin can't help the RLS (which is my worst withdrawl symptom) then I have a script of Requip I can try. Then for the mornings, I'll take the L-tyrosine with my huge horsepill multivitamin and a B complex supplement. (Disclaimer: I'm not recommending anyone follow what I'm doing because I'm not a doctor and don't know anyones medical history).

Here's the link everyone: http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-conditions/tho... Hope its useful. Let me know if anyone has any success with it.


queenie 7 years ago

hi guys, today is day 33 for me with no subs. I feel alittle better everyday and tho i dont believe my brain is producing its normal amount of serotonin, im on my way. As far as the RLS goes i ran or worked out everynight before i attempted to sleep and that helped. I am a 5'7 female who normally weighs 140 however, i dropped down to 124 after 2 weeks of w/d. I now eat well and im up to 130. Im sleeping about 5 hours and napping an hour in afternoon. Te bottom line is you must be strong and prepare yourself to endure some suffering because freedom and a good life are on the other side. I remember the first day i knew i was turning the corner was at the 2 week mark. I had a day of clarity , peace and i laughed some. The next day i went back down aliitle but continued to progress. The depression and my stomach were the worst for me and now both have lifted.I have narcs in my house and do not take them because the pain of addiction outweighs the pain of life in sobriety.I admit i often feel out of place in life and uncomfortable in my skin sometimes but i am more adventurous and laugh a lot more when im clean. ....and oh yeah, i have this thing between my legs! Its alive! lol This site has helped me through w/d i felt like i wasn't alone


7 years ago

I finally got in touch with my DR in the States yesterday and he suggested that i take a tiny bit of suboxone once a week or so to help my body adjust more comfortably. I took some last night, and slept like a baby. I'm really nervous though that i just fucked up everything and prolonged my w/d. I'm so sketched out by how much my DR is pushing it but i did convince him to write my another scrip for clonadine (which i'm not really sure does anything). Does anyone have any opionins on that? Should I follow his advice or go back to cold turkey?? It was the first time I was able to sleep and eat in DAYS. When i started this I weighed 115 and i'm already down to 100 (and i'm 5'5). Its like i could feel myself dying a little bit inside. Now i'm just afraid I ruined my previous 9 days of hard work and suffering. Did I??


queenie 7 years ago

My gosh k, you are right there! dont stop now


queenie 7 years ago

My gosh k, you are right there! dont stop now


FUN TIMES 7 years ago

Listen. A straight kick (as everyone knows who is doing it) makes no sense to me, UNLESS YOU ARE 'TAPERED' DOWN LOW. That's MY OPINION...I'm pretty f***ed up. For ME: kicking off 8mg was stupid...especially while quitting the C (long bad run) the pills and all that shit. Lets do the math: Better to kick off of 8 or 4? I'll say 4. 4 or 2?..I'm going 2. 2 or 1...guess. After I had enough with the 8 and out times...I felt like K. I took 2mg, felt like superman...and I thought. I done F'ed up for real...blew days on zero. But...I did the math. LIFE IS GRAY, NOT BLACK AND WHITE. So I made what I consider an intelligent choice and kicked off 2. After another week on zero, I kicked off 1. Pardon my french...but F**K your doctor. Only you know how you feel. ONLY YOU KNOW HOW COMMITTED YOU ARE. IF YOU ARE SERIOUSLY STRUGGLING, AND HAVE WEIGHED EVERYTHING OUT, AND ARE ABOUT TO SNAP...I WOULDN'T KILL MYSELF OVER TAKING 1 OR 2MG ONCE: ONCE: A WEEK, AFTER 9 DAYS WITH ZERO. IM NO DOCTOR...THAT'S MY OPINION.

QUEENIE...I RESPECT YOUR OPINION. K...IF YOU CAN GET THROUGH THIS TAKING ZERO (WHICH YOU CAN ), QUEENIE IS RIGHT. TAKE ZERO. I DON'T KNOW YOUR LEVEL OF PAIN OR DESPAIR. ONLY YOU DO. I MUST INSIST, IMO, THIS IS NOT AN ALL OR NOTHING GAME ALWAYS. THAT'S ADDICT THINKING...WE TEND TO BE EXTREMIST. THAT SAID: THIS AINT ANY TIME TIME TO BE THE LEAST BIT SOFT AT ALL. K...IF YOU CAN BE ONE HARD M-F, DO IT. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, DO IT INTELLIGENTLY WITH THE RIGHT MOTIVATION. K-I DON'T THINK YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG. NEXT WEEK...YOU GET 2 MORE MGS. NEXT WEEK!!!!!!


7 years ago

Thanks Fun Times. I took about 1.5 after 9 days of zero and it was the first time i slept in 9 days. I feel much better today but don't plan on taking anymore for at least another 9 days. I was thinking about it, and i feel like stopping after weaning myself down to only 4mgs was not the way to go. Going from 4 to 0 was really fucking rough and i should have tapered a little better. You're right...addicts are extremists (i sure as well know that i am) and it this is not black and white. I'm certainly not going to start taking it everyday again..but my body needed a break and needed to recoup which is what i think the 1.5mgs did for me. I got a whole nights rest, was able to eat 3 full meals and re energized before starting another 9 days of 0mgs. No one said this was gonna be easy, but i kinda felt like I was making it harder on myself than it had to be. But again..i was looking at detoxing in black and white and some things are just flat out gray. I'm gonna keep going as strong as i can till i'm about to crack, then take the tiniest bit i can. I may be rationalizing, but i think that is probably best for your body as well. Jumping off the side of a cliff (so to speak) cannot be good for you..it is definitely going to be more comfortable to take a day off every 9 or 10 days to help your body catch up to all the shit you're putting it through. i may be rationalizing, but the 4 to zero was like fall off a cliff and landing straight on my fucking face.


queenie 7 years ago

hey guys i know! if you read my earlier entries you'll see i took tiny pieces of methadone a few times in the first two weeks when i just couldn't deal. and i was only taking 1 mg of sub for the last 3 weeks of my using it. no doubt its hard and only the strong survive(Fun times gave me strength with balls to wall attitude earlier on). K, do what you must, just move forward ! I recpect anyone who pulls thro even 3 days of sub or any opiate w/d! Stay strong y'all. GOD BLESS!


FUN TIMES 7 years ago

I'm very glad for this site. I do go to NA meetings (and really don't care if I have one drink at night....they can keep the keytags...I'm grateful for the support and knowledge EARNED THROUGH THEIR EXPERIENCE)...and I'M JUST SAYING...a Good Group is a very valuable resource to me. Some groups suck. I'm white, my 'home group' is made up mostly of cool black guys (w/the obligatory fidora) and women who have been through shit WAAAAYYYYYYYY worse than me. The average clean time there is like 13 years or so. I don't speak, I listen and learn, b/c I have determined that the root of addiction...which carries over to "kicking" is ALL IN MY/YOUR MIND. My favorite line from an NA book is "my best ideas got me here". I have my Law Degree, and my BEST IDEAS got me hooked on everything you can buy in Chicago. I go to NA to hear other people's best ideas (gained through painful experience) that have helped them get and stay clean for 13 years. Make no mistake...these are real hard core ex-junkies who are now doing very well.

Back to this site: K and Queenie, thanks for the kind comments. If anything I may have written helps anyone one bit....it makes my unpleasantly painful experience more acceptable to me. You both helped me and made me stronger with your words. For real. Thank you. It is especially appreciated because we are all going through some rather F'ed stuff that most people will never know exists. I told (and may tell again) people all the time (boss, friends, family) "Listen...I may appear to be a happy functional human being right now, but make no mistake....I still feel F'ed up...okay". They just kinda nod...and I don't balme them...only WE people know what this shit is about. Its just no fun. I know it is not supposed to be fun, but I fully condone everyone saying (in a non complaining voice) "Motherfucker already....this shit really aint no fun". Then get back to being hard...and say "Fuck fun....I'm kicking this motherfucker".

K-don't worry about rationalizing. This is one of the hardest/trickiest parts of the kick...to be FEARLESSLY HONEST with yourself to the point where you KNOW...okay...1.5 mgs in 9 days equal an average of .166mgs per day. I am not "rationalizing using this miniscule amount...I'm being fucking sensible for once in my life". Shit. .166? Are you kidding me? You are doing great. Just make that your limit if you have to...in 9 days do 1.5 or 1 again. That's not rationalizing...that's intelligent.

There is a nice bonus once the kick is done (aside from...holy shit....I don't need an orange pill to survive). When you get through this you are forged from fucking steel. Everyday shit that people worry about will not phase you (aside from shelter and food). I'll close with two lyrics: by Jimmy and Jimi: "I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true"....that was during the rough part, and now "If the sun refuses to shine, I don't mind...I don't mind. If the mountains, fall into the sea...let it be...it aint me". I'm cool. God Bless you all.


7 years ago

Fun Times, Queenie and this site have been sooo helpful to me too. I'm working abroad and no one knows about my past with oxy and herion and no one here could possibly understand even the slightest bit what i'm going through. I, like Fun Times, am a functioning addict. I used to do herion and go to work in finance. It was just what i did and no one knew my dark secret, which in a way made me feel even more on top of the world than with the drugs. It was like i had this inside joke that only i got and i was laughing at everyone around me. I'm sure i'm like many other people on this site...i will never truly hit a rock bottom because i am too functioning, but that isn't a reason not to quit and doesn't make it okay to use(i only realized that recently). I thought, if i can do all my regular life activities just as good f-ed up all the time as sober, then what is the point of being sober?? I still question that sometimes. But at some point it wasn't an option to function without drugs (not like i would have anyway) and thats when i decided i need to clean up my act. I had no defining moment, and i never will...at some point it just came down to being sick and tired of being sick and tired...no winding up in jail and no being close to death (well maybe a few times..). And knowing that whatever i do there was a very rare chance that my actions would have a negative impact on anyone but myself (no stealing, lying or cheating...just illegal drug use) and without that "rock bottom" in sight it makes it even harder to quit drugs. But i'm a better person now..i still have dreams about heroin and oxys at least three times a week and i do indulge in my weed habit (at least i did in the US) but i feel like i'm finally living for real. And that scares me shitless but it makes me proud at the same time. I lived for so long on drugs (I started at 14 and i'm 24) that living this life now is terrifying, but after discovering this site, I feel like it is not only possible, but probable. I've never been a fan of NA (i just can't seem to find a good group) but this is the best support system I can imagine. Thank you all so much for making me realize that i am not alone in this or anything and for all of the words of encouragement. I appreciate it more than any of you will ever know. Good luck to all. We will speak soon.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Hey K. You are sounding cool young lady. Real cool. Women in my opinion are more sensible then men. I'd almost bet (almost...b/c I quit doing that after too many times at the flats aka thouroughbred races) that you are a very attractive, extrememely intelligent, and genuinely kind person. And an absolute narcissist (spl. ck. pls?). I'm just giving my best guess...because I AM one too...it's not cool...but I'm trying to understand and be honest with myself. Anymore narcissistic folks here? I know what its like to pull up to a very respectable school of law in a Turbo Porsche (bought with perhaps slightly unclean funds), high as a kite on H, very well groomed, and look down on everybody there. Haha...you people actually study? It wasn't such an inside secret that I was different (I'm fairly certain I was the only guy hitting the gheto for H between classes)...but it was an inside joke/pleasure to me. I loved it. I mean being successful and on H (and smart enough to be in a meth clinic...just in case things got a bit dodgy) and upwardly mobile...that was my American Dream, and I was living it. Pride cometh before the fall. My opinion about women being more sensible may be wrong...but at age 24....I was just starting to have fun. YOU YOUNG LADY (UNLESS YOU ARE A 100 POUND MAN...MY APOLOGIES....LOL) ARE DOING SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL. I honestly love my career...but if I had quit when I was 24...I swear to God I wouldn't have a boss. Life works itself out the way it does...period. SO AGAIN K- NOW I'M ALMOST EMOTIONALLY INVESTED IN YOU DOING THE RIGHT THING...YOUR TOO YOUNG AND TALENTED TOO FUCK UP 15 MORE YEARS OF YOUR LIFE. LIKE I DID. DIG.

This site is blessing. Queenie- you seem strong and very determined. Your my age, and we have been through a little bit. I like your spirtuality. It's beautiful. I'm trying to find mine. Not into war stories...but here's a reminder of just how bad things were and get...this is a progressive disease...it only gets worse...never better. I have been stuck up so many times that someone had to be REALLY FUCKING CONVINCING EVEN WITH A GUN ON MY NECK BEFORE I WAS GIVING UP SHIT BEFORE I QUIT USING. In the beginning..they just had to pull a gun out and I gave up my cash. I possesed a superior ability to crash cars...into all kinds of things. I'm sure that's common here. I drove through a taped off murder "scene" not long ago (in fairness...after breaking through the first tape at the beginning of the block...I stopped with the tape on my windshield at the other end)...and the police looked at me with a state of utter disbelief...guns pointed at me of course...that anyone would do that. I actually considered it a reasonable thing to do...cops were everywhere...I wasn't really supposed to be on that block...might have been dirty...why stop? Cops and guns was a reasonable reason to stop. They showed me the dead victim's brains on the wet street, let me go...and of course I did what I went out to do.

I'm sure people have worse stories. I never killed anyone (thank God...with all the accidents), never committed armed robbery, I consider myself a GOOD PERSON. I LOVE TO HELP PEOPLE. ADDICTS BY NATURE ARE SELF-ABSORBED AND SELFISH...LIKE ME. SO I GUESS I LOVED TO HELP PEOPLE...AFTER I GOT WHAT I WANTED...AND DIDN'T REALLY MIND HURTING THEM TO GET IT. I FELT BAD UNTIL THE NEXT DAY.

FUCK ALL THAT. I'M NOT THAT WAY NOW BECAUSE I DON'T USE DRUGS...AND I'M NOT HOOKED ON SHIT! I believe addicts are for the most part kind and intelligent people (and selfish when using)....that unfortunately have something amiss with themselves inside, that makes them seek oblivion. Narcissism is a bad trait I will overcome. I will be humble. Perhaps God is using all the pain I went through to humble me. I thank him for it.

K or Queenie...feel free to shoot me a text or call sometime...if you want. I'd love to put a voice to these comments I hear. My cell is 312.342.1271, as you can see...I REALLY DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHO KNOWS IT. If you wanna call, just give me the first three numbers of your cell...and i'll know its you. I'll be free over the weekend...busy tonight. No hard feelings either way. I wish you both nothing but the best. Stay cool.


Amanda 7 years ago

I have been a heroin user for 9 yrs. I decided after about 4 months of addiction that I would try a methadone detox. Well, they don't offer a detox plan; they only offer a maintenance plan. So, basically the government wants your money. They have no interest in seeing you clean; they want you to stand in line everyday and give them your $13.00 a dose to be addicted to something that is government regulated. By the way, methadone was the worst thing imaginable to come off of. I quit cold turkey, and I was sick for a month. I thought I would never get better. Obviously if I tried this methadone program 4 months into my addiction; I relapsed. In October of 2008 I went into a detox program. They used suboxone. I had quit cold turkey numerous times, but I just couldn't do it this time. After about a week I had completed my taper. I have to admit though, I did feel some withdrawal symptoms. Sometimes you do need a break from the withdrawal, and when I was sick from the methadone I did get high once a week. I needed to sleep, to move, to do anything other than be in agonizing pain. You can do this, and for a doctor to think that substituting one drug for another is better, well, in my opinion it's not. They mislead people into thinking that suboxone is some miracle drug. There is no miracle drug, but you will be a better person for going through this experience, and if you have to take the edge off every now and then do it. It is just unfortunate that we aren't warned that these other drugs have a much longer and sometimes much worse withdrawal than our original addictions. Good luck to anyone who needs it.


7 years ago

Hey Fun Times..you hit the nail pretty much on the head. only i'm not a "hey look at me" narcissist, i'm a "self hating so everyone must be looking at me" narcissist. I've had some childhood trauma that has lead me to seek out the incorrect things to try to comfort myself and live with the memories of my past. Much of my behavoir is just to try to cope with life. I'm a drug addict, and if something can be abused I will be the one to abuse it. In college I even managed to turn occational acid use into a habit..i had to be tripping all the time (and I did for a good 6 months). That's why i felt so at home with opiates. It just makes everything okay. I could forget about the past and the present and it would stop my mind from racing about the future. It gave me peace of mind for the first time in my life and i wanted to hold onto that feeling forever. Well that's how it was like in the beginning. After a while it wasn't an option not to use and that was okay with me because what is the point in living such a painful life when you don't have to? I'm still having trouble coming to terms with some of this stuff. I too agree that most of the addicts i've met are too intelligent for their own good (I tihnk that's one of my problems). Being so aware is hard to deal with and at times i wish i was ignorant like so many other people..being content working their 9-5 jobs and wanting settling down and getting married. Ugh..life sucks. FT - my Indian cell has the numbers 966 in it..i'll shoot you a text that my company will pay for later this weekend.

Amanda - I agree. I wish someone (namely my DR) had explained just how addictive Suboxone would be. I'm not sure if i would have cared (I was so concerned about not using H and oxy I would have taken anything) but at least then i could have made an informed decision about going on it. This detox is waaay longer and waay more uncomfortable. I'm still not sure if i will ever feel whole again.


queenie 7 years ago

ello there (best english accent)!Just wanted to say addicts are the most interesting people i know. As a nurse, im around all kinds of people and at the end of the day im always so happy to be around other addicts(recovering of course). A lot of peolple in my field are very judgmental of addicts and say " they did it to themselves", which is true but i dont belive its that cut and dry! I never wanted to be a H addict when i was a kid...it just sorta happened.What's funny is there are a lot of drug abusers in the health care industry that judge patients and then turn around and have their hand in the cookie jar! I do not discuss my situation with coworkers as i have found some things are better left unsaid! I do however advocate for some of the pts who come in addicted (in my own way). anyway, i just spent two lovely days at the beach here in south Florida and it was great and i realized im nolonger experiancing any w/d symptoms. I also slept 8 hours solid last night. Fun Times you are so honest it cracks me up! K, are you feeling any better yet? my area code is 954. Stay strong guys. With love, Queenie


dustybug 7 years ago

K - wow you said it "Being so aware is hard to deal with and at times i wish i was ignorant like so many other people..being content working their 9-5 jobs" That is exactly what landed me in the situation I'm in now. The constant state of wake up, go to gym, feed dog, take shower, work my ass off & people scream at me, go home, go to sleep and do it all over again is so fucking depressing that the only way I could work and for awhile actually LIKE my job was to pop pills like tic tacs. That's exactly it, being so aware of it makes it so you can't even enjoy the weekend coming because you know you gotta do it all over again. And yea, we can all try and find some bullshit "rewarding" career but the only things that are genuinely rewarding don't pay the bills. And I don't know about you, but then I'm so aware of this, that I try to tell myself I need to stop thinking like this, I'm young and need to enjoy my life because before I know it I'm gonna be old. I guess I just need to find something that really makes me happy and do it... but WTF is that!!!??


7 years ago

Dusty - that is exactly it! I feel like i am wasting my life and everyday that i'm not doing something great with my life is another day i've failed. I hate my job, feel unstatisfied with my life, and just go through the motions because I know that I should be. When i was using, i just didn't give a fuck. It let me forget about how miserable my life is and made going to work and doing my routines tolerable. This being sober thing is miserable because everyday i wake up in a panic and say, "what the fuck are you doing with your life, K???" I know that I need to find something that makes me happy, but nothing does. The closest I have come to that was using and it didn't make me happy so much as numb (to me they are two in the same). I have no passions besides scoring and dread living the rest of my life. I need to find something I'm passionate about, but i have no clue what that is.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

just checking to see if i need an account before i post


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

k well i weened down after a forever opiate addiction from subs to about 1mg a day i got tramadol for some fractured bones and now i'm 10 days 0subs and taking like 50-150mg tramadol to ease my symptoms plus some benadryl i don't feel terrible but i don't feel great either i think this is the best site so far as w/d goes detailed days and all are awesome...i'm now down to 50mg tramadol starting today for the next 5 days i figured i would feel a wee set back when i'm done with them but that will only last a couple of days and the worst of the sub w/d will be over if anybody else has experience with this drug let me know...when i kicked dope i used vics and i don't even remember feeling a set back and tramadol isn't even as strong as them and subs are def. the same damn dif. as dope except w/d is a wee different so i think i'll be okay it's not like i'm having a walk in the park right now......man i'm so grateful for this site i went to drugs.com and nobody even answered my thread!!!wtf but it's all good


queenie 7 years ago

Merchantofdeath- hang in there boss and do whatever you need to do to get through. In prob another week you'll be good (not great but good). What made you decide to stop anyway? Not that it matters im just curious. PS use icy hot if your muscles start aching


Dog 7 years ago

I posted 3 weeks ago about quitting for good and my experiences with withdrawing off of oxys and suboxone. I sit here 3 fucken weeks later in the same god dam position. I am so sick of this fucken shit. I relapsed last week again, not bad, but enough, doing 1-2 80s per day; now I am back on the sub again trying to get off. Took 4 mgs yesterday, and 6 mgs today, but the subs are no longer working for me. They stop the bad wds, but I still am anxious, depressed, and worse of all - the worst hot and cold flashes imaginable.

I am at my wit's fucking end. I am a 30 year old, successful businessman (who would be more successful if it weren't for the 800 lb gorrilla on my back) with a beautiful, supportive fiancé and great parents. Yet, this shit has made me mentally, emotionally, and physically weak to the point, where I am really starting to lose hope and begin to think about painting my office walls with my brains.

If I am not successful kicking it this time, I don't know what to do. There is no end in sight to this thing. I know that I can stabilize with the sub and might be able to crack a smile in a month, but it starts all over again, when I try and come of the sub. Then, on top of that, I have a years worth of fucken depression and insomnia to look forward to. Honestly, I would sell my soul to the lucifer himself to be rid of this problem.


7 years ago

Dog - I hear you. The only thing worse than coming down off a strick regimin of opiates is having to go back to the life that lead you to use in the first place. Some people use for fun but I've always used as a means to deal with all the shit that takes place in my head. That has definitely been the worst part of detoxing...going back to the way i felt before i used and never sleeping never having a normal thought. All i can say is that smoking weed and hash has helped me considerably, but i know that is not a long term plan. Good luck and if you find the devil, send him my way...i'm willing to make a few deals.


Dog 7 years ago

K - You are 1000% correct. My problem is similar. . Unlike you, I don't have any crazy shit or demons in my head. I have been completely off and dam near sleeping again 2 times already, but the same thing always leads me to falling of the wagon again - boredom. My mind gets bored. Its embarrassing and ashame to say it, when compared to the problems of other people. I partied hard throughout my 20s and now that it is time to calm it down, I find life very boring. I really need to learn to direct that boredom to something worthwhile.


Stevenp 7 years ago

Hey,

I've spent the good last hour reading all of these posts—really great!

I have been on black tar Heroin for the past month. Previous to that I was on suboxone and had been for about 1 year taking 8mg (1 pill) per day. I have been struggling with some sort of opiate my whole life it seems, well, ever since i had my first knee surgery and found out about pain pills. Anyhow, I heard about suboxone through a friend and i quit taking drugs and got on suboxone after a bit of a struggle to get there, but I did it.

After about 6 months of being on suboxone i decided i wanted to quit and just go back to taking nothing... Well... i found it too hard to do. As soon as I got my dosage down to about 1mg suboxone every other day, my cravings just got too strong and I ended up moving the dosage back up. I never felt any pain or withdrawal though while tapering down to the .5mg from 8mgs though. It was about a 6 week taper and I would just feel a slight discomfort every time i brought the dosage down, but nothing much and pretty painless.

I don't understand all of this pain that every one is talking about with quitting suboxone?? I was told by my doctor that if i did the taper that he put me on, that I wouldn't feel any withdrawal, and I pretty much didn't, the problem for me was the strong cravings that came and so I went back on suboxone to keep myself from doing the dope again.

I am a couple days from getting back on suboxone from Heroin again. I have been on the heroin for about a month, like I mentioned but for some reason, it is just so scary waiting to be ready to get back on the suboxone because it is uncomfortable for the first couple days.

I have never comletely been successful in getting off of suboxone again completely. I have tapered down to taking next to nothing (.5mgs) but never completely. I really don't understand all of the withdrawal pains that have been mentioned several times in this post. Is that just because of trying to go cold turkey off of the suboxone? I can tell you that if you taper over a period of about 6 weeks, that there will be no withdrawal... can anyone else testify to that also?

Well, as of today, i'm trying to find the courage to kick the dope and get back on the subs, and then after I do that, i want to taper off the subs again and possibly go to rehab which I have never done before and feel it will be the cherry on top to getting myself permanently clean.

Any words or encouragement or comments to what I have to say?

Keep the great posts coming and thanks for sharing all of your stories!

Steve


Fun Times 7 years ago

Awwwwwwwwwwww Shit. Here we go. My computer is F'ed up at home so I just read the comments from work. K, Dustybug, I swear...I SUPPORT YOU, PRAY FOR YOU, AND WISH YOU SUCCESS AND HAPPINESS!!! I DO.

BUT I AINT TRYING TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANNA HEAR ONLY WHAT YOU BETTER MUTHERFUCKING KNOW!!!!!!

K-"I too agree that most of the addicts i've met are too intelligent for their own good (I tihnk that's one of my problems). Being so aware is hard to deal with and at times i wish i was ignorant like so many other people..being content working their 9-5 jobs and wanting settling down and getting married. Ugh..life sucks".

Wow!!!!!! Now that is some HARDCORE NARCISSISM! For Real! Fuck! Wow!!!!!! Now I got something to say: I work with attorneys, in fact I advise them (some are smarter than others, I couldn't call one ignorant). At times I need a really really smart attorney to advise me on how to advise them. These are not ignorant people...not by a long shot. Queenie, it appears that your work in a hospital. If you have a cardio or neuro ward...I bet that you can atest to the fact that there are some very smart surgeons. I dare say...way smarter than me. Attorneys aren't surgeons (thankfully, or we wouldn't have such a thing as surgery....hahahahhaha). I'm not Shakespeare, Oppenheimeir....or Kepler. Neither are you. WERE THEY SO SMART THAT THEY HAD TO BECOME ADDICTED TO DOPE...BECAUSE...HOLY SHIT...THEY "REALLY KNEW HOW THE WORLD WORKS" AND "WERE WAYYYYYY TO SMART FOR A 9-5". Doubt it. they probably worked for three days without sleeping with their genius ideas on the true nature of a Lepton. C'mon.

What about the really regular people. Take for instance my Infiniti mechanic. I have a basic understanding of an internal combustion engine. I can take one apart. I can put one back togather...with the help of a machinist. If the engine is from 1972. Variable Rate Timing Dual Overhead Camshafts running off of a brainbox...aka...a car computer that runs a lot of shit...namely the entire car...is wayyyyyyy beyond my practicle knowledge. I dare say that fuckers smart. Why does go to work, this smart fellow? Didn't he read Nietzsche, Sartre, Heidenger and Kierkegaard? Whoa is me...life is purely a matter of perception....there is no truth....blah, blah....motherfucking blah. Save it.

DIG THIS. WE ARE THE FUCKING WEAK. ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT A 'SIMPLER' PERSON THAN YOU IS IGNORANT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU SEE. THEY ARE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO PICK UP A FUCKING DOPE HABIT. THAT'S RIGHT. FUCK- DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD WOULDN'T RATHER LOVE TO BE KICKED BACK NODDING ON DOPE AFTER A HARD FUCKING DAY'S WORK THAN ACTUAL DEALING WITH REALITY?!? SHIT...I KNOW A TON OF DUMB DOPE FIENDS. GETTING THROUGH LIFE CLEAN AND SOBER (AS IN SON OF A BITCH EVERYTHING'S REAL!) TAKES STRENGTH. THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO USING...SURPRISE. Who is smarter than who? Who is stronger than who? Feeling a little "unsatistfied". Poor folks. Fly to Rawanda or Darfur...maybe you can participate in the famine, pestilence...and in your lucky....a little genocide.

Keeping thinking that you are the Chosen One...keep taking Morpheous' pills...and enjoy a little more pain NEO. I swear to everyone hear...I thought the same exact motherfucking thing that K mentioned. 17 years later....Surprise. I'm not the chosen one. Humility folks. Everyone would like a little oblivion after a hard day. Some people are strong enough to live without it...and to do the right thing.


Freebird 7 years ago

I have used oxys, percs, roxys, hydros, anything I could get for the last two years. We were spending so much money on them every day that we started doing subs in between because we could get them cheaper. I finally decided I wanted my life back and I was going to do whatever it took!! So I have not done a pill in almost 3 weeks. I stayed on the subs until last Thursday, I wheened myself down. I never would let myself do much of a sub even when I was using them in between pills. I would just shave off a small line. So it got to where I needed this teeny little bump just to get through the day. It was just so stupid!! I wanted to be a normal person again that did not need to do something every morning just to get by. It is the end of my 5th day without anything! I feel wonderful! The first two days were the worst, but nothing compared to oxy withdrawls. The second day I felt like doing easter shopping for my little one and stayed out of the house most of the day, even drove 30 miles to visit my dad. I still have still felt like cleaning up the house and did a couple loads of laundry. We went to the grocery store tonight. I am doing all the things that I used to need the sub to be able to do. I have mild restless legs, and insomnia, but I take a quarter of my husbands sleeping pill and I am out for the night. I have gone to work and made it through. I am getting over diarrah now, and feel amazing. The symptoms I have had have not been nearly bad enough to keep me in bed or keep me from doing anything I would normally do. I just want this so bad and I listen to several songs that keep me motivated. I feel better and better every day, and I wish everyone that is trying to get through the same thing, the best of luck! Just remember that there is an end to it all.


queenie 7 years ago

Guess what guys....in the medical world we (addicts) fall under a catogory titled mental illness. HOWS THAT PILL FOR SWALLOWING? When you continue to do the same thing over and over when you know what the final outcome is( Death, jail, nutward) you are officially insane! I agree with you guys life can be boring and scary but the key is to stay really busy and volunteer your extra time helping someone less fortunate than yourself. Our time on earth is short. What will people be able to say about you when you die? He/she was a caring ,giving, kind person who did this, this, and this or, He/she was a piece of sh*t and waste of life junkie. Just some food for thought. As a 37 year old who has battled this demon a long time i tell yiu nothing in life that's worth having comes easy( except maybe the lottery). Dig deep and find inner strength. I hope some of you younger folks dont struggle 20 years away like i have. Time goes by fast and 20 tuns into 35 in what seems like no time. As always i wish you all the best and send my prayers up for you.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Alright. I almost kinda sorta got a tiny bit little 'remorsefull' about coming off as kinda harsh. I said almost. On the one hand, I DO NOT want to hurt anyone's feelings. However...I don't have a problem grabbing car keys from a drunk before he kills himself or herself and someone else. He can be pissed at me now...and hopefully...cool off later. In any event, I'M NOT GONNA LET THIS DUDE CRASH AND BURN IF I CAN HELP IT.

I would like to comment on what Queenie said...because I'm with it. I almost regret calling addicts weak people...with the complete understanding that I am a full blown addict. Is it a disease...doctors say it is. So if you don't like thinking that during active addiction you were weak...cool...you were sick with a mental illness. Entirely plausible, I'm not ruling it out. If it wasn't a disease to begin with...it sure the fuck became a mental illness after a little while.

So..now we all have a disease, called addiction. Let's say we were born with or acquired it or whatever. Were all f'ed up. Queenie is right...we as addicts have all become insane. Except for those of you who planned on winding up addicted to hardcore opiates and planned on getting on suboxoxe, and planned on a terrible kick. You folks are exempt...your genius maschocist (which is still a mental illness). But for the rest of us who made less brilliant choices that got us here...shit...didn't you know after being sick the first time kinda where this was going? Kept putting your hand on that hot stove anyway...thinking this time...it wouldn't burn. Didn't ya. Told yourself...if I just put my hand on the stove a little less often (which you couldn't do anyway)...for sure it wouldn't burn. Result...you got some f'ed up looking hands after a awhile. Addicts, and I have seen the 'pictures'...have some f'ed looking brains after a while.

So, what now? I'll tell everyone: YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR DISEASE, BUT YOU ARE REALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR RECOVERY. THAT IS THE MOST "PROFOUND" AND IMPORTANT THING I WILL EVER SAY ON THIS SITE. That is as good as I got.

If you are a diabetic...like my father was....take insulin. If you are addict...get in RECOVERY. It's that simple. A disease....which doesn't go away...but like diabetes...it can be arrested. Go make a citizen's arrest on this motherfucking disease...or get high. Your choice. Only you can want to do it. I like Queenie pray that you arrest this disease through Recovery. Jails, Institutions, and Death. Those are the "yets..." waiting if you don't. For what it's worth...don't go to NA if you don't want to. Don't seek counseling if your too cool. Some loving Recovering Addicts made me one simple promise: Get into Recovery, come to meetings, take our advice...and if it doesn't work...no trouble....we will gladly refund your pain. I'll take my tax refund...I'll let the pain go. God bless you all. Pray to Him and you might get a good answer.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

checkin in


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

k...well i wrote before and it didn't post...it's me i'm a goof.

well progress....i've been answered at drugs.com forum=need to talk? and they there are 2 members with a lot of experience with tapering of subs. now i know i could logically sit down & figure this all out myself but having the support really helps out with the my will power. okay well i was using tramado to come of subs i was on day 10 and feeling lousy as well as sick to my stomach from the tramadol[which after extensive research...should not be used w/subs...luckily i didn't mix them but really we've all have been garbage cans before, right] i was advised to stop taking the tramadol & restabalize on the subs which i had tapered down to 1mg before i switched off to tramadol. i did what they recommended and i feel better which of course we all know would happen.

now i'm on a scheduled taper.i'm going to take 1mg of sub for 4 days then cut down 25% every 4 days depending on how my body is reacting. so the schedule goes like this:

1mg/4days

.75/4days

.50/4days [.25 in the am & .25 in the pm]

........................then the schedule switches up since it is of the upmost importance to feel stable at each level of tapering the days may proceed past 4 it depends on how your feeling. they use 4 days b/c of the 1/2 life of subs... if it's too fast for your chemistry to keep up with and you start feeling w/d you may stay on that dose until you feel straight. and that stands for every increment of this tapering schedule that is why you talk to them everyday to help gauge the best course of action on an individual basis.

now you'll begin to start skipping the pm dose every other day;

.25am & .25pm/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & .25pm/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & .25pm/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & skip/1day

.25am & .25pm/1day

.....so every 4 days you'll adjust your dose, providing your adjusting okay...now the next set you'll skip the pm dose 3 days in a row and eventually you'll be at .25 and eventually that'll be your jump off.........but alot of times people will reduce down to aprx. 1/2 of .25 like .12mg or whatever then jump off...but that is slow i'll use .25 as the last dose for example purposes so you'll be at .25 for 4days then you'll go to every other day for a while then every 3 days then every 4 days and i'm not really sure after that other than what seems to be the next logical step and that is be done. everybody says either they felt no w/d or very little. so since i really want to do this right and suffer the least i'm gonna try this.

this hubs greatest attribute is it's daily journal of what people experience as they detox so i decided that is what i'll contribute. i have yet to read of somebody doing that here. although i really can't wait to be done i want to do this slow so my body has time to adjust...it's been abused long enough and getting clean is about doin' things right [isn't insanity repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results?] and i'm always in such a haste to get off & be clean that i end up hurting and back on square one...over and over and over and over again.this time around i want to make sure i'm done for sure and going slow i think is a good idea. i'm not going to glorify my addiction or carry on that i'm some super addict w/crazy tolerances...that's so unimpressive when i see people posting how tough or "bad" they are. but i will give a quick time line b/c that is relevant to my detox and my body's reaction to tapering:

2yrs herion & misc. opiates

3 1/2 yrs. methadone [peaking at 190mg tapered to 20mg for subs]

2 yrs. subs [started at 16mg tapered to 1mg over this last year]

so aprx. 7 years w/out a break of synthetic opiates in my body so it is only logical that my body needs to repair while i'm tapering to feel min. w/d. and i am no super hero to be honest i'm tired of fighting the good fight...ya at 18 cold turkey sucked but doable now no way i'm defeated i'm only 30 & i just don't have it in me so i'm gonna try to make this as comfortable as i can. i might take longer to adjust as i taper than 4 days and that's okay. so i will log in hopefully everyday and give a bried account of what is going on. i recommend visiting drugs.com to anybody looking to get off subs it has a high success rate and it's done by people that have been where we are now they are not doctors but they are experienced & educated.so sorry for such a long post future ones will be alot briefer but i thought for those in need this is a good explaination & my history is important to why i feel the way i do. thanks and good luck to all!!!!!!!!!!

1mg/day 3

i feel fine no symptoms what so ever. i'm sleeping & eating & fully funtional & no anxiety/depression has set in.[ however i was at 1mg for 2mths before i tried quitting. i tapered myself down from 2mg to 1mg over night & had min. w/d and adjusted quite quickly.but if your on this schedule i recommend using their method of cutting down 25% i was anxious and by msyelf.]i taper down in 2 days to .75 and i'm hoping that is okay as well but for now i'm happy to be stable at 1mg.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

drugs.com= http://www.drugs.com/forum/need-talk/

i highly recommend it. this links right to the forum i talked about and look for robert325 or musicman they are the ones that work w/ you on a one to one basis. if you need anyother information or support you can find tons of references there.

i think coming to this hub for support & journaling as well as the drugs.com for sheduled tapering "program" & recommendations are a good step to getting off subs. i just wanted to contribute back what is helping me maybe it can help somebody else too.

oh sorry for any typos i don't feel like editing or proof reading :)


Fun Times 7 years ago

first...i would like to apologize to K and Dustybug for not speaking in a more thoughtful and constructive way. i hope you both accept my apology as it is sincere. i am impulsive and posess terrible judgment. God i want you two too succeed. i'm pretty introspective. i was really upset at the fact that my best intentions were not tempered by humility or judgment. i prayed for both of you by name last nite, at 10pm, and fell asleep before i was done. i woke up when my alarm rang 6am. a peaceful nite. i do not like going to sleep being angry at anyone or having someone angry at me. my biggest concern today wasn't getting to work...but writing this. hopefully you will accept my apology as sincere. it is. and keep focused on your detox/recovery.

this is a journal of sorts. boredom led me to use. using felt alot more like being alive than boredom did. it hurt in the end.

hello merchant of death. i hope things go well for you. i humbly hope that you and i both succeed in this endeavor. being 'hard' is what i sincerely felt i needed to be to kick. i felt other people might have to be hard too. if not...i apologize. i agree...boasting of a high tolerance is passe'...i told everyone where i was...just like you did. i told everyone of the stupid things i did...as a reminder to myself how far i had come...and how far my addiction led me. to me it's important to tell people what i believe...addiction leads to death...so i saw no harm in adding real life illustrations.

i'm not going to lie...i thought being mildly criticized for expressing what i don't even consider a high tolerance (i have friends shooting raw weight...i never did that...not even close)...which was 'where i was at' as being exremely unimpressive- when i really wasn't trying to impress someone...kinda turned me off. same thing with telling folks...i was hard...you might need to be a little hard...that seemed reasonable. i couldn't have got completely off subs as long as i did without being hard. and it came from the humblest of sources...Merchantofdeath. i can kid with you and tell you that it seems like that name would be extremely unimpressive to a teenager these days. but i am kidding. honestly. you are doing something cool...keep doing it. and when i speak out of turn...correct me. i have an open mind. i appreciate criticism these days...it makes me look at myself...because "i am my own worst enenemy...i'm a hazard to myself". Thanks Queenie, K-, Dustybug, Mechantofdeath, and everyone on this site. help me help myself...and i'll try and be as supportive as i can.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

stevenp....if you've never been to rehab then maybe you should try outpatient therapy...your insurance or county will probably do that first anyways. i would do outpatient & go to NA meetings & listen to their advice. i don't know your overall history but i'm guessing your mind set is like everybody elses. rehab blows to be honest but if you never went you won't hate it as much as when your a "repeat offender". oh and i'm tapering now and it seems if i do it right i won't feel any w/d....fingers crossed.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

fun times....i actually wasn't even referencing you at all....i was reflecting on how i was when i was younger and i was thinking of the people i see in my life who still use. i enjoyed your posts truth be told...sorry if their was any misunderstanding.oh and you could joke around with me as crazy as you want. i'm very down to earth & posses a very dark sense of humor. oh and the name comes from an inside joke between my boyfriend and i that's y i used it.[just to fill ya in] but i don't take myself that seriously & i appreciate kidding around it lightens the day up. oh and i rarely take offense to what people say b/c i'm pretty raw & only expect the same in return.

1mg day 4

i feel fine still...good deal. i usually have a difficult time waking up but today i actually woke up fine. i'm also a night person through & through and i've finally managed the last couple of days to go to bed before 1pm. i'm staying busy cleaning and organizing our apt. i've been depressed and laying about for what seems like eternity so it's nice to feel productive. plus i was thinking that any activity/exersize would help "jump start" my natural opiates...i've also been trying to eat well and drink healthy. i guess i 'm prepping for the lower end of the tapering.if i develop a schedule i can better evaluate if i'm not feeling right. like i mentioned in prior posts i really want to do this right. i have no desire to use dope or anything i'm fortunate to be passed that but i don't want to be dependent on subs forever it is very spiritually confining for me.


Fun Times 7 years ago

awwwwwww man.....Merchantofdeath....i just assumed you were a guy. damn it. that's a cool name for a chick. lol. i'm glad all is well. i like your comments very much. no misdunderstanding...just another case of a narcissitic addict...me...thinking the world revolves around myself. one day....i'll realize it doesn't. fun times!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

ya i like that the name is ambigious....hey no worries...& you are the center of your world...but when i talk to somebody or whatever i'll put their name first so there isn't any confusion...you'll find though that most of my posts will be just ramblings sort of reminds me of diary of a madman by bukowski...i just go off on rants...that's what i like about this site..it helps me clear up my thinking and try to find the point behind whatever it is i'm thinking. my head...i call it the committee b/c i picture a "board" of different people [atheist, moralist, scientist, rebel, etc.] sitting at this table inside my head and whatever comes up for debate they all scabble and have different perspectives which leads to different outcomes or solutions to whatever it may be that i'm contemplating so needless to say getting it all out and in front of me helps organize my thoughts. oh and i too enjoy your posts.


7 years ago

Fune Times - no worries. i'm a big girl and can take some criticism. You don't have to apologize for how you feel or what you think. Thanks for doing so, though.

Merchant - I wish you had come onto this site about three weeks ago when i first stopped my subs. I definitely needed a better taper plan. I had myself down to 4mgs a day and thought that was low enough to stop cold turkey. Needless to say I experienced the WORST w/d symptoms that seemed to go on forever. I went 9 days on 0mgs before i could get a hold of my dr who told me to take 1-2mg every few days to help my body adjust. I took 1.5 mgs 9 days ago and plan on taking another 1mg tonight before i go to bed (1.5 every nine days seems reasonable). I was nervous about it at first, but the more i experience this and the more i read it seems like i was putting myself through more pain than was actually necessary. I'm on day 18 (with a tiny piece every 9 for i'm gonna say the first 27 days) and i feel a hell of a lot better than i did on any other day (well maybe not 9 but that's a given). Also i am very grateful that i am not trying to do this at home. Being in India makes trying to score H or oxys damn near impossible and i fear that if I were in my regular environment i would have picked up again to ease the pain. This has certainly not been fun, but i'm finally starting to feel proud of myself instead of constantly ashamed. Thanks to everyone. I really appreciate having a place to go when things get too hard or i just need to vent to someone about detoxing. Take care everyone


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

K you sound like me being in a big hurry and starting that vicious cycle over and over again...i strongly suggest scoping out the website i posted it seems to be helping me out alot. i too put myself through unnecassary pain. if you do go to the site seekout the 2 members i mentioned and fill them in. dr.'s usually go by a universal tapering schedule instead of tailoring it to individual needs and adjustments.

everybody's body reacts so differently to coming of subs that's why when you read posts about people detoxing it ranges so vastly in experiences. i've come to realize that no one experience is goin' to measure up to my own & one on one guidance is the most responsible thing i could do for my body & finally taper off correctly thus ending the vicious cycle.

it sounds like your doing well though...keep up the good work & my boyfriend and i are contemplating moving to europe where people work to live instead of living to work like here in the states. we're saving up to relocate sometime next year after getting married...can't wait.we have a few ideas of where we want to check out but if you travel often and have any suggestions that would be great! he's a mechanic [gearhead sooo bad!] & in a couple of years i'll have my degree in neuroscience with a double minor in religion & philosophy. i think they are pretty good fields for relocating. oh and i'm very jealous of you K! :) happy trails in india.


queenie 7 years ago

hi everyone, Merchantofdeath, i guess you didnt see i posted my entire detox on this site (just scroll up and you will see). Im coming up on 6 weeks and im sleeping 8 hours again eating great and have gained most of my weight back (135). Today i went to Hollister and spent 220 on new duds! How awesome to buy clothes instead of drugs. I think everyone should continue to keep it real on this site , thats what makes it great!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

queenie...? i'm not sure where you got the idea that i didn't read your posts by what i wrote....but i did read them. i'm pretty sure that i stated that the day to day journals of those dextoxing was, in my eyes, one of the best assests of this hub. either way i'm happy to hear your doing well.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.75mg day 1 [taper day 5]

am dose .25mg

k well i had to take the 4mg i had and smash it into powder...kinda scary...and break it into .25mg & .50mg all guessing of course. so then i made little "envelopes" out of post it, the non stick kind, and divide up the next 6 days of my schedule.

i took my am dose of .25mg like an hour ago and i seem to be okay. i've been drinking hot tea just incase the stupid chills sneak up on me. i'll be reposting later after i take my .50mg pm dose. this will go on for the next 4days. by then i'll def. know if my body is adjusting accordingly since the 1/2 life of my previous doses are still intermingling with my biochemistry. but so far i feel okay other than tripping myself out. i'm trying to stay busy...cleaning & other misc. apt. chores as well as eat all 3 meals and load up on liquids. i feel like i'm preparing my body for some chemicla warfare.......well i guess i am....the better prepped and armed the better my chances of overcoming whatever may come my way.

anyways i'm feeling okay and i'll post the pm prognosis later on....


Fun Times! 7 years ago

it's cool that everyone is doing better. K-thaks for being cool...and I am proud of you too. I'll never actually meet you...but i am genuinely proud of you. thats's an interesting dynamic of this site...i'm never actually going to meet anyone on it...but damn if i don't feel for you. i do. i kicked in a fairly non-sensical way...not doing as smart of a taper as I could have (as previously noted...my judgment is really bad), but i did honestly get one benefit...this particular kick really was unpleasant...i spent by far the better part of everyday for like 2 months on the floor....i slept on the floor...etc., etc. that after going through this 'ordeal' life is quite easy now. it takes an awful lot to phase me after that...and that awful of a lot has happened yet...i remain unphased. i may get angry...but it's extremely short lived. i don't have time to be angry.

i just celebrated 3 months without subs (and other shit)...and i am proud.

Ms. Merchant of Death....I'm really glad you are here. i like to journal...awesome benefit. i love to rant...clears my head. i like 'talking' with people who are doing what i am. i like to help. i like to be helped. i was tinking about your atheist member of your commitee. i used to love and read nietzsche...quite a firm atheist in my early 20s. then one day it kinda occurred to me...athiesm is as dogmatic as catholism (i'm proud to say i was an altar boy...for the current cardinal of chicago when he was just a priest...and never got molested ;) ) he was cool. but atheist say there is no God. really...how do you know. it's a faith, like catholism. you can believe there is no God...which is the exact same faith someone uses when they believe their is one. you cannot prove either scientifically...so they are both purely faith based ideas. to be agnostic seems to be the one 'reasoned' approach. they admit...who knows?

sure...the judeau-christrian bible can be found to be simply inaccurate on many levels. scientifically unsound. contradictory in itself...eye for an eye...turn the other cheek. mutually-exclusive ideas. i am kinda big on how Jesus...if he existed...carried himself. he had the whole bill and ted's 'just be excellent to one another vibe' which is cool. be excellent to each other. a final thought on religion. doestoevsky called it the opium of the people. that does sound appealing to me...hahaha. opium without the withdrawals...lemme get some. happy Easter Christians...and thank God or thank oxygen...it's FRIDAY!!!!!!!! Fun Times!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

Fun times...your posts are always stimulating...i tend to look at the school of thought behind anything fundamentalist instead of the often corrupt organization. i always took nietsche as somebody who questioned the meaning of existence not so much as contemplated it's origin...although if you read in between the lines it's obvious what he thought.

it's funny how your just born a certain way...i've have def. been hard wired since birth to question everything and my natural "bottom line" to all is bleak & morbid. however i have this huge existentialist side to me that has created this uproar of spiritual rhetoric to carry on inside me....which i'm forever grateful for.it's like my birth given beekon guiding me through musty dark thoughts that perpetually circulate through my mind.i can laugh at myself though...i always come to the conclusion that the only real nilist is a dead one....:) but it's very thought process that validates the empty life style of addiction to me [or has] what's the point in caring anyways???? well i've obviously come to terms with that by deciding i create the significance....i create the reality i chose to experience everyday....so which life is to be? sort of a tabula rasa carpe diem metaphysical cocktail i guess...but hey it gets me through ya know....

c what you have started...tsk tsk...no i have to settle everybody down.....

spell check is for metrosexuals...lol...inside thing


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

sorry it's sacreligious to misspell nihilist....lmao


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

oh & as far as jesus i have this standing theory...i actually came close to writing it as a reflection paper in a low level theology course....summerized:ya know how back in the day how people where easily impressed.okay well now adays the intellectual crazies that are like on time square ranting enlightening but insane nonsense their that their the messiah and they say demands need to be meet well i believe jesus may have been a hybrid of a crazy and a david blaine...crazy man w/cool tricks...like the dude on tv...FIRE THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELLS YOU...and they walk omg it's a miracle...believe strong enough and it does become your reality....well it goes alot deeper but that's the jist....thought you'd find particular string of thoughts entertaining....but ya anybody chill w/ a solid soul makes a good role model


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.75mg day 1

.50mg pm dose

well i must say i started to feel a wee bit lathargic and felt the chills but i also know that i wasn't doing much to distract myself either. but it was tolerable i mean i could still function and take a nap if needed so like on a scale from 0-10 i'll give my symptoms a 1 and i'm sure i'll be okay i'm gonna stick with my schedule and see what day 4 brings. i think taking the .25mg in the am is was the hard part cause i took the 1mg in it's entirety yesterday morning....i should have split the dosing into .50am/pm...oh well i feel fine actually now that i dosed like an hour ago adn tomorrow afternoon will probably be the same but if this is the worst....i'd b grateful....i've had worse colds....k will keep ya posted


Fun Times 7 years ago

awwwww merchant (may i call you merchant or death ;) ) great post. yeah...i remember my existentialist days...they were 'real' fun. not 'fake' drug fun. i wasn't on dope yet (first run at college). i actually stole beyong good and evil and human all too human and daybreak from my college library. hahahahahahaha. i bought the hollingdale edition of zarathustra...they only had the bogus one by kauffman or someone...i purposely forgot his name b/c i took my nietzsche seriously and he did such a poor job. i agree that he had a life affirming message....not a nihilist like schopenhauer...imo...nietzsche evolved. being and time, being and nothingness...i dug that shit alot...those were truly fun times. it's kinda cool remembering back to when i cared enough about this stuff to ditch class and go in the library and read all the existentialism they had. yeahhhh...don't grow old...it sucks.

if you really wanna wrap your mind around some shit...seriously....i am talking the most absolutely insane motherfucking genius stuff i have ever seen...buy Alan Moore's Mindscape. dvd. phewwww. i didn't dig the movies...but watchmen was cool (the comic), v for vendetta was bad as shit....and then miraclemen man hit with an opening sequence quoting zarathustra....he is this lightning....he is this madness. fuck. the movie is insane...Mindscape of Alan Moore. phewwwww.

zeitgeist online is fairly entertaining...you probably saw it...if not...click and watch. 911...christianity...the fed...i mean i have a business degree with honors and i never paid attention enough to realize that we do not have american money in our pockets...there is no such thing as american money (except for the uncirculated silver back securities jfk printed before eating a bullet)...our cash is printed from a bank owned by the rockefellers, rothschilds, and morgans. that sucks. they just pay for the paper and ink. headline...they just printed a trillion more dollars...what the fuck do they care. its only fiat cash...backed by...the paper it is printed on. fun times.

hey...maybe you shouldn't be morbid. i found existentialism to be really life affirming. you are young. the stupid reason i got turned off of all of it was when i read that nietzsche went kida insane after being dumped by that chick that freud was bamging. i was dating a hot blonde...i figured...fuck...if he's flipping out over a chick and i gotta pretty cool one...maybe i shouldn't be taking this shit that seriously. great judgment on my part once again. in fairness...when you are a 20 year old guy with a really hot girlfriend...life is pretty fucking cool. fun times. stay cool ms. merchant of death. love your comments


dustybug 7 years ago

yeah I'm not saying I'm smarter than most people, I'm just wishing my mind wasn't always going. Like when I'm cleaning the house, I'm not thinking 'yes, only a couple more minutes and the house is clean and I got the rest of the day!' what I'm thinking is, 'Only a couple more minutes the house is cleaned and I gotta do it all over again in a few days." Its weird bc I hate thinking I'm prob depressed, but I've been on depression medicine and refuse taking that shit again because it just makes you numb (different kind of numb than opiates). Its a numb that doesn't make lifes little annoyances less dreadful so you can get them done and over with, it's a numb that makes it so you don't even do life's annoyances and you don't give a fuck if they ever get done!....so when I was at my parents home one day and my dad & mom who are total normal working class people, say, wanna try a piece of this little green pill?... Sure, why not? My parents NEVER did drugs in my entire life (24 years at the time) and NEVER even kept a bottle of wine in the house, why wouldn't I try it? Well that day is when life's annoyances stopped being annoying and started being enjoyable... long story short, once I figured out how much the shit costs (bc pops was giving them to me for free) I had a full blown addiction to oxys and no longer felt right taking them for free from my parents (aw, isn't that nice of me?). After about 6 months, I figured when I worked (made cash) half of my money to buy drugs and half to pay bills. Well bc I'm cheap (which doesn't make a good drug addict) I stopped taking the oxys and got on subs. I guess I've spent a year on subs now, and I'm down to 1mg a day, sometimes .5 mg a day. Just feel like I'm at a standstill though, because I wanna cross the bridge to the clean side but the troll keeps beating me back once I get to day 3 or 4. ::sighs::


queenie 7 years ago

Merchant....sorry i was at work and a co-worker(and dear friend) was reading post to me and she is obviously not as interested as me and was reading fast. Your post was then misconstrewed. Anyway, i wish you the best and will pray for you. As far as finding God goes Ask and you will recieve, seek and you will find,Knock and the door will be opened for you(matt 7-7). Its kinda hard for me to imagine there is no God. If there isnt one why dont we all just go buck wild? What have we to lose if this is all there is? I should just kill as many people as i can and take all there stuff cause after this its over....right? oh but wait....theres this thing called a conscience or still small voice that lets you know right from wrong. I belive that is God. I also find it hard to believe that the universe is a big bang or accident. It seems to me that someone planned very carefully. Trees need CO2 and we need O2 and kindly exchange with eachother. When a baby is born it does'nt have the antibodies to fight off infection but right before birth there is an exchange of antibodies from the mother via the placenta that last approx two weeks in the baby. When a new born is then breastfed, it takes in something called colostrum that provides nutrients and antibiotics until the baby produces its own. The fact that a man fits perfectly into a woman and then from this seed and egg comes a human. The sun is just perfectly placed far enough away that we dont burn up and yet close enough that we can sustain life. Everything about the human body has a purpose to protect us from the tears in your eyes to the wax in your ears to the discharge in the vagina.I could go on and on and sometimes do but for typing puposes i will not. Before this last relapse that lasted 3 months, i had 4 years clean(almost). In the beginning of that 4 years i found God through prayer and bible study. I attribute my strenghth in that time to God. It was when i began to fall away that i relapsed. What ever you do i respect your chose to get clean. And i,d like you to know there are alot of cool Godly people who have come through hard times (bikers, hookers, drug addicts) and are not these goody-goody nun type a**holes. Its hypocrites that give God a bad name. I send you strength, and happiness


Fun Times 7 years ago

wow. this site is getting deep in a sincerely cool way. alright. Dustybug....you have truly got me beat already (and i will NEVER and have never used sarcasm toward anyone here). you actually clean your house! wow! you win. i swear...i was just kidding with this chick at work about how my office looks like a a south american steppe pyramidal ladder of files...which for me...if it's in a file...thank God. worse is a tornado strewn office full of loose paperwork. papers important enuff that as candid as i am...i'm too embarassed to desrcibe. gosh. i told this young lady...my pad....that's a different story. if you've made it into my pad than you must know me...and hence cannot possibly be suprised that when you walk in you'll see project mayhem is going down there. i try and keep my car clean...but as you said: WHY? THE FUCKING THING IS JUST GONNA GET DIRTY AGAIN. ENUFF!!!

Dustybug...if can clean your house on 1mg of subs....you are like fucking wonder woman. i aint kidding. give yourself a fucking break. when i was on 1 mg...go ahead...ask me to clean some shit b/c i want to. to make it look nice? try it with a fucking gun. then go home looking at my f'ed pad. i was stuck on the floor...unable to break inertia. u have motivated me enuff to make me consider possibly cleaning...in a week or two. that's progress for me.

Do yourself a favor and give yourself a break. you are not sucking down oxy's like tic tacs. that didn't turn out well. 1mg of suboxone....i am no doctor...but ms. merchant of death had a great point....stay on 1 mg until you are completely stable. that's how i f'ed up all my methadone detoxes. i would go down fast. once i hit 30 mg, i was sick...like a clockwork orange...i would suppliment my meth with H. it worked out the same every (and i mean every) time...i was off methadone and back on H. and i kept wondering...how the fuck did this happen again?

you are really doing great K-, Dustybug, Queenie, MerchantofDeath...all of you. stressing over something like a milligram...please quit it. give yourself a break. take your milligram and chill out. i used to preay for a day when one single milligram of anything would allow me to function. like Queenie said...i asked God...(really i just told Him kill me if you want...i give up)...but God saw me through this thing.

Queenie..it's always nice to hear your spirituality. i would say that even if i knew God didn't exist...i would be cool to people. life is a gift enough. heaven would be like hitting the lottery. i've heard people win....i'm not expecting it. and i wouldn't kill anyone because i been to cook county jail. i mean...it's not even a nice place to visit...i certainly am not trying to live there.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

fun times......i've seen zeigist...shit gets me all wound up...i'm chomsky fan when it comes to social order.i can get into that later....it's the weekend and my b/f doesn't have work.....hooray...so i'm gonna TRY to be brief. i've never seen mindscape i'm gonna go and dld it....fuck payin' unless i decide it's worth it then i'll support it. i've seen alot of movies......i love art especially anything expressive like david lynch's earlier animations...since we're talking films...here's an animation i really liked [it's not lynch] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsGEWHNJ3s8 scope it out...it's pretty deep. oh and i'm gonna dld mirclemen...i loved v is for vendetta....if your a film buff i'll put together a wee list later on for ya and see if anything is new to you.

dustybug man my apt usually looks like dexter's but right now you would think i was ramsacked by some patriot act happy swat nazies....seriously fuck it...i'm more like funtimes when i'm down and out....cleaning is not a priority...give yourself a break!

queenie it's great your all one with god. i'm not looking for him or whatever i stopped believing in santa too. i don't mean to sound harsh it's cool your good but i'm good on fairy tales. it's awesome you have that....i'm with bill mayer...religion is usually for people in foxholes...i almost envy you have this feeling of somebody omnipotent watching over you and caring....however i can't even fake myself into that....i'm not trying to knock you i appreciate the whole ask and you shall receive you put time into but post for your sake not mine....i have come to terms w/my own set of beliefs that get me through the day their just not your standard out of a mold god beliefs...but like i said it's awesome you feel content w/your god it's def. a good thing....oh and sorry i have faith that humans can morally function w/out some religious mandate hanging over their head....it's cool you believe god's voice guides you...i just call it human nature....i've never believed in some afterlife consequence and i have yet to kill...i emphasize the yet...lol...seriously and the cycles of life...well my daughter is always asking about this she's only 4 but like me distracted w/ the meaning of life and mortality...you could def. tell she comes from me...and nobody knows but keep a good head about you question everything if god made all this then who made god another god...so a russian set of gods exsists???? i don't see it i don't claim to know the answers....saying god knows best and we can't grasps gods intentions well fuck him he doesn't make any sense...his means doesn't justify the ends alot of the times and he's a sick fuck w/what goes on here on earth..oh wait that's where we say it's the devil right...so that's a quick cop out we made a bad guy to take the wrap???god is all powerful so that nix the devil right there. i'm sorry i just think if there is one he's in need of some serious therapy and his humor is sicker than mine.

.75 day 2 [taper day 6]

k well last night i was restless and had chills so i took .25mg before bed...i'm waiting on my schedule guy to tell me which option he wants me to take i suggested a few. i think i'm going to take 1mg broken up throughout the day instead of the .75 right now and spread out the hours as to get to the point i only need .75mg..not sure i'll be back w/the update...i just wanted tolet everybody know what's going on.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

funtimes...i hear ya about the 1mg i do laugh at myself from time to time but i feel an uneasyness....i haven't done anything "hard" in a minute now...thankfully. but i'm sort of the type that likes being one w/myself complete all natural. i won't feel that until my using of anything is in a complete state of arrest. it's like i mentioned earlier about a spriritual jihad taking place. for no other reason do i want off. fuck social validation or anything to that nature....i need to feel me...the raw me...nothing sythetic....i crave the day i'm liberated...that is what drives me...i have come along way with the finish line in the distance taunting and teasing me like some school girl w/a jacked up skirt....i can almost have it i'm right there....just just just oh yeah that's right...there's a dante's 10 circle of hell just before it...ahhhh reality...it sucks.....but with virgil at myside i'll get through...[virgil my support...you guys my b/f my inner strength].....so yes 1mg only not so bad except it is still 1mg and i have not yet won my freedom.


Fun Times 7 years ago

ms. mechant of death. yikes...you are a liitle raw about the GOD thing. it's your right...the patriot act has shut this site down yet. I mean,,,dig Bill Maher...denounce pantheons...but really...you are prety upfront about telling God loving people that he is santa claus. you don't know that. religion and spirituality are different. if someone has a spiritual relationship with God...and is kicking...i'm gonna do the rodney king and say for the sake of us all 'can't we just get along'.

finally...the movies suck.. buy the comics..or steal them. take care.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

funtimes...k i'll check out the comics. and no nobody knows what's going on with the god thing....but isn't funny when somebody is passionatly projecting their opposition it's oppressive and yet the other way around it's people expressing their love??? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...i play nice i'm not putting anybody down i'm just giving my opinion in turn for hearing others


Fun Times 7 years ago

man i love this site.. i love the rants more than anything. they're the most sincere. hearing about a tapering schedule is a really good idea. but the rants...i can't buy this kinda shit. thank you all. Dustybug...it occurred to me after rereading your post. you are one motherfucking responsible addict. i am really fucking pulling for you here. in the midst of my full blown addiction...fuck...bills? if i happened to have cash left over from all the H (in fairness...i kinda lucked/unlucked out by aquiring substantial funds in what may be considered by people a slightly illicit manner)...i may pay a bill or two. rent...i ususally paid...albeit late. i guess i paid every bill...albeit late. i wasn't living without cable.

i'm kinda misssing/envious of evrybody's kick. i'm not trying to brag or boast (as it is obviously not something to be proud of...and i care about you folks alot...but you're not worth lying to...nobody on this planet is so 'important' that i feel like i have to lie to them...as shakepaere said...'to thine own self be true...and in doing so you will never be able to lie to another man'...slight paraphrase possibly)...but my kick really was 'different' then what i'm reading.

Chills?!? holy fuck. believe in God...don't believe...cool. someone is looking out for you folks with chills. when i hit 1mg...in very short order from 8mg...i was FROZEN TO THE FUCKING MARROW. after i woke up...i could not move for about an hour and a half b/c my core temperature had to re-establish itself. my body quit producing heat. no lie. RESTLESS?!!@!!! fuck what i would have gave to be a liitle restless. i was up 23 hous a day for weeks...plural. i'm just gonna be really honest. when i posted early about doing silly shit to kick...i was under the assumption that 'of course everyone was kicking like me'. MY PAIN RECEPTORS LITERALLY SHUT DOWN...as i said before. the silly shit i was doing involved inflicting violence upon myself...hoping to feel some pain...but that took alot. from punching myself to induce cramps...to wailing on myself with a hard wood stick...i did that. shit like begging friends to 'please...just hit me as hard as you can...not in the face b/c i have to work'. i didn't cut myself b/c i didn't want to hurt myself...just get some pain.

this was how that started. one day during a ruff H kick i stumbled in the night and smacked my shin really hard against a table. i wave of ecstacy washed over me. the pain didn't register in my brain...i was psychotic...but it did register in my shin...which told my brain to produce some some natural pain killing dopamine or serotonin or something to my body. i swear...it was that cozy warm feeling that washed over me like i had when abusing H. just didn't last as long. so...i used the pain game...and i have been on zero subs for months now. ruff kick.

back to my point. you folks are doing great. i'm not jealous..i'm happy and proud of all of you. ALL OF YOU....of course you want to be on ZERO right now if you are not. I'm just saying: as a whole i believe a couple things. getting to zero NOW...sounds like an addict seeking instant gratification. i want this now. and also sounds like 'as i often display' f'ed up judgment. really...you are all doing so well...let yourselves be proud...not miserable. one day i woke up in so much pain...physically and emotionally...that i spent fifteen minutes on the floor opening and shutting my eyes...trying to decide which hurt less. of course i was utterly paralyzed...literally. that was my f'ed up i want off all this shit now kick. i want. fuck what i want...better to think about what i truly needed...8 to zero quick wasn't it. please everyone...if you are really low on your dose...like a single milligram....just chill until you chill. THEN kicking off one will be a moonwalk.

Merchant...i want your movie list...PLEASE. I NEED MOVIES!!!!!! just tell me Fight Club made your cut! American Pscycho? and fuck me...christian bale in the machinist...fuck...that guy is insane. wow. awwwww...and my sentimental favourite...True Romance. fucking Clarence was cool. ps...that alan moore flik is makes zeitgeist seem as profound as cinderella. that aint even a movie...that's something different.

Queenie...I could not have gotten through this but for the help of God. I believe God has a name. it is Mercy. Luv you all!


Baby Steps 7 years ago

hello people,


Baby Steps 7 years ago

Ok it works, i wasnt sure if you could just write something and then send it, but you can, so ANYONE reading these POSTS PLEASE COMMENT OR SEND SOME WORDS OF WISDOM. I have been on day 4 of my cleaning, OMG I FEEL GREAT, heres a little back ground, i have been on workmens comp now for 4 years and i just turned 23, i have 2 herniated disks in my lower back at L5 and S1 and a buldge at L4, and let me tell you, i have been in EXCRUCIATING, almost unbearable pain from my work injury everyday!!! Now let me tell you, YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT ALONE!!! i got caught up in over doing my medicines, i was on 4 roxy 30's, 3 roxy 15's and 3 perk 10's, and also 50mg of the Fet patches, now thats alot of SHIZ. yeah i know, but at first it didnt start that way, i told my doc almost ever other month the meds wernt working and they kept goin up and up. and i was eating more and more, my tolerance SKY ROCKETED through the roof, EVERYDAY I WOKE UP, feeling so MAD AND DEPRESSED WITH MY LIFE. mad at myself, the fact that i got hurt while working, totally DEPRESSED ABOUT LIFE AND WANTED TO KILL MYSELF, Now for the people out there that think about doing something so pathetic, DONT YOU DARE PUT THOUGHTS LIKE THAT IN YOUR HEAD, God put you and I on this world for some reason, im 23 and i dont know why im here but i know and believe in my heart that there is a PURPOSE HERE ON THIS PLANT, and TO EVERYONE OUT THERE, THERE IS A PURPOSE FOR YOU TOO, EVERYONE was put here for some reason, now i believe in GOD and you have to...where do you think we came from....huh...? really think about it, SOMEONE PUT US HERE....so dont EVER THINK YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE....Because YOU ARE, You are special in MANY WAYS, if its helping your elderly neighbor take the trash out or giving HOPE AND WORDS OF WISDOM to a young child whos doing drugs. PLEASE EVERYONE LIFE IS EXTREAMLY HARD AND I KNOW THIS AT 23. now i dont know about you but if you think of life as a huge game, dont you always wanna win, who wants to loose, not me. LIFE IS A BITCH AND A HUGE CHALLENGE, God has us all dangling on string by his finger tips, he throws us CHALLENGES TO SEE HOW STRONG WE ARE, EVEYTHING IN LIFE IS A CHALLENGE, now LETS FIGHT THREW THESE CHALLLENGES......lets fight threw this. DONT BE A LOOSER, BE A WINNER, show him and everyone else you can fight the world with no problem, everyday there is some challenge we all have to get thru them, if its work, kids, bills....whatever, get up, get going and lets TEAR THIS SHIT UP!!! show your family and friends YOUR A WINNER!!! now i know its hard, im in alot of pain...but there are lots of things that you can do instead of eating pills, and getting high....SHOWERS....omg...there SOOOOOO HELPFULL...there was a posting, someone saying showers throw your mind off and they do....you wanna BREAK THE HABBITS, like waking up and popping pills before you shower or throughout the day whenever you do what you do.....BREAK YOUR USUAL SCHEDUAL, shower at night, switch your daily life style up, when someone asks you to go out, the bar, a movie, whatever DO IT, DONT JUST SIT AT HOME AND DWELL ON WHAT U DONT HAVE, WHAT YOU LOST, WHAT YOU SHOULDA DID....the HELL WITH THAT, you did what u did and look at where you are now.....YOU HAVE NOTHING, MAYBE LOST YOUR FRIENDS, WIFE, HUSBAND....NO MONEY IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT....whateva.....DONT WORRIE THOSE ARE THINGS YOU CAN GET BACK.....YOU HAVE TO PUSH YOURSELF, YOU HAVE TO GET OUTTA BED AND MOVE ON.....oh dont forget, the best saying ever, "YOUR BEST IDEA IS YOUR WORST IDEA, AND THATS WHY YOU ARE WHRE YOU ARE NOW....DONT WORRIE THO..there are family and friends, doctors and even TOTAL STRANGERS OUT THERE THAT WILL HELP YOU....YOU GOTTA WIN, the shit gets old, theres ONLY SO MUCH YOU CAN DO AT ONCE......SO TAKE BABY STEPS....YOU CANT FIX EVERYTHING IN ONE DAY SOBER BUT IMAGINE WHAT YOU CAN DO IN A WEEK...or a MONTH.....yeah ALOT MORE...so just take one day at a time, theres no rush....you are where you are now because you were careless....but thats ok.....its called life....NO ONE IS PERFECT....NO ONE...i HAVE FAITH IN EVERYONE ONE WHO READS THIS...if you need someone to talk to IM HERE....ask me whateva....i will do whateva i can to help anyone who wants help....oh i forgot....i am on SUBS...a half of a 8mg daily.and for the people out there who ABUSE THEM....YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF, YOU ARE WEAK AND NEED HELP, subs are for the people who wanna get clean and stay clean...PLEASE PEOPLE I KNOW IT SUCKS....the sweats, the shits, the sick feeling, BUT WHEN YOUR DONE YOU ARE GONNA FEEL LIKE YOU JUST FOUGHT 1000 people with your bear hands and WON....I BELEIVE IN YOU....I HOPE AND PREY FOR EVERYONE OUT THERE WITH THIS PROBLEM....but hey....DONT WORRIE, YOU CAN DO IT, YOU HAVE THE POWER AND EVERYONE HERE HAS THE FAITH...and HOPE IN YOU....HOPE and faith....strong words......they mean YOU CAN DO IT AND WE HAVE YOUR BACK...stop feeling and being so SELFISH about life, theres people that need your help too, so dont forget that, YOU AND I ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE OUT HERE. TALK to people, tell them how you feel, you can do it.....someone said to laugh alot...well i totally agree with that....IT WORKS....TURN THE RADIO ON AND SING....BRING BACK THOSE HAPPY FEELINGS by doing something constructive....watch TV and MOVIES too....SMILE...be around people who care about you, not people who will give you drugs, they dont care about you if their giving you stuff....dont forget MISSERY LOVES COMPANY....ITS TRUE, hey if you have to leave your girl or man for a week THEN DO IT....TAKE A BREAK….TELL THEM YOU NEED TO START WORRYING ABOUT YOURSELF NOW....your HEALTH IS EXTREAMLY IMPROTANT....think of what you do to your body....wow....these drugs and your body arnt meant to do and take all those drugs...you dont want, kidney problems or heart transfers do you..?...NO YOU DONT....ALSO EAT AS MUCH FOOD AS YOU CAN....orange juice and drinks with lots of healty stuff.....go get what you want....if its pizza, wings, skittles candy....whateva works so when your eating your giving your mind and body and sense of happiness...do things that used to make you happy, go to the movies, sing to yourself, play the drums....whateva....JUST SMILE AND LAUGHT AND YOUR MIND AND BODY WILL START TO RE-FILL THOSE MISSING HAPPY FEELINGS and YOUR FEEL GREAT.....I PROMISE!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK.....think about LIFE, YOU ARE SPECIAL, you are GREAT, YOU ARE HERE FOR SOME REASON....ok...everyone is...dont do nothing stupid, PICTURE WHAT HELL LOOKS LIKE........I KNOW I WOULDNT EVEN WANNA IMAGINE WHAT LIFE WOULD BE LIKE THERE IN HELL....know if your thinking well ive been there, i know what its like...........ok.........well.....hummm....lets see....NO YOU DONT!!! AND JUST KNOW YOU DONT WANNA KNOW....ok...im 23 and ive been on shit for 4 years now....i NEVER THOUGHT I COULD EVEN THINK ABOUT STOPING, but there comes a time in a mans life when ENOUGHT IS ENOUGHT AND ITS MY TIME....THE LINE HAS TO BE DRAWN AND SO DOES YOURS, if you already havent tryed... SO STOP BEING A LOOSER AND START BEING A WINNER....and EVERYTHING ELSE WILL FALL IN PLAY, GOD KNOWS YOU HAD IT ROUGH....STAY STRONGER THAN EVER AND GET IT DONE....NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE....im walking proof....dont you wanna be...GOD BLESS ALL AND PLEASE COMMENT ABOUT ANYTHING......TELL US HOW YOU FEEL...LOVE YOU ALL...REMEMBER EVERDAY IS A NEW DAY....BABY STEPS PEOPLE BABY STEPS...

ALSO THANK TO EVERYONE HERE I AM CLEAN DAY 4 and continuing.....GOD BLESS :)

YOU CAN DO IT!!!-------------------------->


queenie 7 years ago

Merchant, i wish you peace, joy and happiness. You sound angry and mean right now and i understand that, detoxing is a miserable thing. I was just trying to help . I gained alot of personal and spiritual growth through the 12 steps of recovery that is centered around God(or higher power for those who do not want to use the G word).If you are your own God thats great but for most addicts a divine intervention is extreamly helpful and i was just offering hope. I did not mean to offend you. I have been on this site for some time now and we encourage each other and discuss w/d symptoms. My words were to share my experiance,strength,and hope with you and if your not wanting to here that ,i accept that. Congradulations on your progress and i look forward to watching your posts and seeing that you get clean. Funtimes, thanks bro. Your awesome and we've helped eachother through. Im proud of your growth and that your in recovery too. I wish i was closer to you i would enjoy your company. k, i hope your doing well and wish you all the best and you too dustybug!


queenie 7 years ago

baby steps, uh yeah..............ok........keep coming back!


William Allen 7 years ago

Hello all. Some quick background... I am in my mid 20s and was doing oxys on and off at 18 and 19. When I hit my twenties it started to be evident that I had a problem. Well the long and short of it is I decided to go to detox and was givin a 5 day suboxone cycle after being on 160 mgs of oxy a day (give or take). When I left the program I had some mild deppression and some insomnia but nothing too bad at all. Well, I messed up and started using again and got to a point to where if I didnt use I was an absolute worthless mess. Due to a very good job which I had, I seeked out a suboxone outpatient treatment. During my initial meeting I asked the usual questions about length of use of the suboxone and the withdrawal symptoms assosiated with it. I was told that I had to be on the subs for at least 6 months so that I could psycologically get out of the habit of being high. Well needless to say, after 6 months and being told to stay on the subs I started to taper myself off. Funny thing started to happen, I would actually feel cravings for the subs. Well the last time I saw my doc I asked what amount of subs I can safely stop at w/o feeling withdrawals. I was told that if I take 2 mgs in the am and 2 mgs in the pm, the withdrawls would be negligable.

Well let me tell you, tonight marks day 4 on 0 subs, my last dose being 4 mgs on last Tueday (today is saturday). I havent slept a wink for a few days even though I have been taking melatonin. I havent missed a day of work even though it is almost unbearable to be out of bed. All I can say is I have absolutely no desire to give in no matter what the pain, I'm just disgusted with the way I was misinformed about the subs. Thank God I found this site.

Showers are a God send, also excersise, excersise, excersise. Running is good if you can, but I prefer weights till my muscles quiver. It is weird but the pain is almost welcome. At one point I dropped to my knees, dumbell still in hand, and started to yell and weep. It wasnt the weights but just an emotional rush of resentment for the path I had chosen. Needless to say, on any given day more addicts choose to keep using then to stop. I give you one peice of advice in this regard, take the path less chosen. Embrace the pain. It is not just withdrawals, its a higher calling. Our experiences in life make us what we are and to be honest, anyone who can make it thru withdrawing from opiates can do amazing things.

When it comes to God, I know peoples views vary. Here are my thoughts on the subject. Whether you believe god to be the singular higher being in JudeoChristianIslamic tradition or if god is just some vague higher power, the key to God is us. It is through our belief in God that God exists. I like to think of God as an internet of souls. There are many ways to tap into the strength that this internet offers, one way of which I am sure leads to this is through trial and tribulation. What the ancients used to call enlightenment is the realization ( and even practice) that ones body is a vessel. Project, meditate, pray, whatever it takes to take your consciousness out of your body (exestentialism anyone). Learn from yourself, be at one with the world around you and embrace it. This is the path to true happiness. To all of you, which I consider my sisters and brothers, thank you so much for your words of wisdom and your help, 1 love and 1 soul. (Sorry, Im feeling kind of deep right now.

P.S. To all our christian friends and all those who believe in Jesus, Happy Easter


Fun Times 7 years ago

HAPPY EASTER!!!!!!!!! first...let get my narcissism out of the way....it was my idea (that cost me 7 grand) about the showers....and they do they work! hahahaha. and i want credit for eating everything i saw...dead or alive. stay busy...move around. oh man...i'm just playing (no swearing today...it's Easter) around. and yeahhhhh...it's time to get hard and fight the power. do everything baby steps said.

Baby Steps....please stick around. Fentanyl?!? phewwwww. shazam! for folks that don't know...until recently...doctors even couldn't give you fentanyl (maybe still can't) until they went through special courses...with the understanding that fentanyl is (per milligram) 100 (almost exactly) 100 times sronger than morphine. so i'll call it at least 75 times stronger than H. They weren't just giving that stuff out. a couple years ago in chicago dope addicts were dropping like flies. cops found out why. someone was putting fentanyl in the dope. pertanint point: when the H addicts started overdosing and dying...and i remember this...sales of that "dope that killed everyone" skyrocketed. everyone was looking for it. folks...that's insane. tip: a broken mind cannot fix a broken mind. get into recovery. tip: a smart man can learn from himself, a wise man can learn from others. get into recovery.

indian proverb: a young man asks the chief (his dad)- father there is a war inside my head. there are two wolves fighting. one wolf is kind, protective, selfless....the other is viscious, hateful, selfish. which wolf will win this fight...who will i become; Indian Chief- the one you feed. tip: feed the good wolf and get into recovery.

ms. merchant...don't compare Jesus Christ to david blaine or a tv preacher. you're smarter than that. when david blaine officiously (grab a dictionary...just kidding...but i know u got to) sacrifies himself for our sins...then ....still don't compare him. he aint Christ.

and William Allen...you are really cool man. please keep coming back.

Queenie (sweetheart), K-, Dustybug, Mechantofdeath, Baby Steps, William Allen...i need you guys man...please stick around. PLEASE.

today everyone do me a favour: don't forget to love yourselves.

Happy Easter!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

i don't understand y it is i sound angry? cause i voice what i feel? the bottom line is....i think the whole believing in god has stopped the human race from evolving...i think it has caused way more destruction than peace....i think people hide behind it...they're afraid of their own mortality....it's childish actually....and i am happy for those it makes happy but just b/c i feel strongly about their not being a god doesn't mean i'm angry or it's b/c i'm coming off subs...man i'm more passionate about my convictions clean if anything...truth b told i knew i would get the responses i got b/c that is what always happens...if only i placed bets on this i would be rich....look when people go off about jesus or god or whatever it's devotion it's love....when people say nah man i think it's bullshit their bitter misguided blah blah blah the only thing i'm upset about.....if anything at all....is nobody here has been the exception...just b/c i don't believe in god doesn't mean i don't have love in my life or anything it just means it comes from me....i actually think i appreciate the good things on a higher level....when things are bad or good i can work with them b/c that is life not some preordained b.s. i'm not offended i just hear this same stuff over and over rehab meetings everywhere...i can't relate i don't feel that way i probably never will....however talk about human sacrifice or inner strength b/c of circumstance or whatever just something positive that is real

funtimes....i hold you in high regard however jesus is nothing but what i already stated and i will not retract...i'm not being a dick i sincerely believe in it's the same idea as my 4 yr.old thinking the tooth fairy came into her room...dude zeigist is another good way to open your mind type in the one about religions...seriously....u do realize their where many "christs" before him right w/ 12 disc. lazerous died rose from the dead???? old wife's tale switched up over time is all....i love the ideals of "christ" it's a good thing but unnecassary and people make huge sacrifices everyday their not the messiah and their pain is bad what happened to christ would be any easy alternative to them so please no i'm sorry but i just don't get it especially anybody as intelligent as you i guess it's the foxhole thing please do some theological research...oh and i'll have your movie list later on

i am 100% about expressing your beliefs and ideas i truly am i'm not a hyprocrite i just feel compelled to break that religious mold when i hear b/c life is profound w/ no god and you have done everything to make your reality and you should get the credit for being clean or take the blame for shit being messed up..i do wish everybody well and i do appreciate the help and support ....and educating people is a big deal to me..thinking outside the box...whatever reality has been passed down to you...question it all of it

Tapering

yesterday i didn't have time to repost but i ended up taking the .75mg but in 2 doses and later on in the day which seemed to work out just fine

today i have yet to take my dose i'm feeling slight chills and restless but i'll b okay i'll be taking my .25mg dose in an hour or so.i'll keep yas posted.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html...

this is only the tip of the iceberg there's alot more...i don't care if anybody believes in whatever all i'm saying is think about it for yourself...don't believe cause addiction sucked and now your clean or you almost died but you didn't believe b/c you know beyond a doubt it's real and you have educated yourself and your "big picture" of life comes from all the knowledge you could obtain it's the only logical answer do not believe for the sake that you've been preprogrammed that if you don't your bitter or negative..........just look at the "coincidences"....i don't know seems like "brave new world" to me...


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.75mg day 3 [tapering day 7]

well i'm happy that yesterday i got through the day with only .75mg....hooray! as for w/d....i didn't experience anything at all however i was hanging out with my buddy captain morgan....which masked any uncomfortableness i would have naturally felt.

so i took my .25mg a wee bit ago and before hand i only felt the usual minor stuff which was barely there. i am starting to think that maybe it won't be so bad. still im a junkie and the idea of any w/d sends into instant fetal position....


Fun Times 7 years ago

merchant....it's still America...for now...so run wild...follow your heart (what else can u do...except possibly be thoughtful of others)...forget people's feelings or using judgment...like i do...and speak what you believe. just stay clean. i have been told by many people that i am very smart. tests said it. tests said i was real real smart. than why did i get hooked on everything you can imagine....junk included. poor judgment. whatever. hey i didn't attak you. you said everyone did. i like u, play nice. incidentally...i know u r smart enuff to realize that your atheism is as faith based as my Christianity. i can prove God exist just as easily as u can prove he doesn't. i'll make a bet with all atheist. bet u can't prove God doesn't exist. take me up on that...tell ur friends to also. that why i can win and be rich. lol.

hey...post that movie list already. just do it. i need movies. pulling for u merchant.

remember...you are a big girl. and smart. if you are expecting certain result...like ranting aout how God is the tooth fairy...knowing what you are gonna hear already...before even commenting on it. that's passe'. if i burn my neighbor's house down (stupid analogy....but i'm typing quick)..expecting him to get mad....knowing he will...betting on it...yeah...i'll will get rich. that's not my style.

i honestly think u have a great mind. good chance you are right about everything and i'm wrong. opium for the people is cool to me. i luved opium. shit...we can talk freely. couldn't offend me if u tried. other folks may possibly be offendable. food for thought. ps. zeitgeist is reallt full of shit with alot of things they reported on christianity. not everything u readonline is true...imagine that. stay cool everyone.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Hello everyone.... don't hate on the name, I'm just being stupid (anything to laugh while going through withdrawals!!!) I just recently found this site a couple of days ago, and I first just wanted to thank Queenie for posting her detox on here... It's hard to find people who have actually went through it, stayed off, and still want to talk about it, you know? Me and my husband are on day 16 of no suboxone... came off 2mg, but it was really like coming off 4mg because we only took 2mg for two days before we jumped off. Just couldn't take it anymore. We went through about 5 years of using hydro, fentanyl patches, tramadol, WHATEVER we could get - 4 of those years we were using daily. Then low and behold here was this freaking pamplet in our family doctor's office.... Are you or someone you know addicted to opiates?? We can help at the methadone clinic!!! I still want to kill myself for not researching methadone first. How stupid could we be? We had actually taken methadone before so we KNEW you feel so good off it.... I guess that was part of the allure. Plus we were spending about $200 a day on pills, our business was gone by now, we lost our house, our vehicles, and we were living on our last money. We went home... and the next day we ran out of pills... couldn't find ANYTHING.. for the first time in 4 years I felt the wrath of withdrawal, and I told my husband, lets got to the methadone clinic tomorrow. So we did. And a year and a half later we were taking 120+mg of methadone a day. I was getting two weeks worth of 90mg a day and taking it up in less than a week. I was told when I went to the methadone clinic, "Oh, it's ok... you can stay on this as long as you need to... the rest of your life if need be." Dang were we fooled. At my one year review I told the Dr. I wanted to get off, and she said she didn't think it was a good idea yet. I guess I'm a really stupid person (or I just didn't do my research, just didn't know crap) when I'm taking pills, but I decided one day when I got my two weeks take home that I would take it up then quit, and I wouldn't have a choice. So I did that. I came off of that much methadone cold turkey. WHOA. I made it 8 days, and I was back at my old doctor, begging to get on suboxone. Once again, I didn't do my research.... was told by this SAME doc from the beginning and all the way through... that there wouldn't be any withdrawals like it was a miracle drug. I'm not dissing suboxone so don't get that impression. We stayed on it about 2 1/2 months, and now we are 16 days clean from everything. So I'll put myself out there and answer any questions anyone has about the withdrawals or whatever I can help with. I don't want to bust anyone's bubble, but at day 16 I am only about 75 percent. But from what I've read, it truly does take about 25 days or so to reach close to 100 percent. Everyone's different... I was expecting this crazy jump from feeling horrible to feeling awesome like everyone talks about when they get off other opiates, but suboxone is obviously not like that. It gets better with time.... I do agree the worst is DEFINITELY over, and me & my husband actually stayed on pretty much the same page every day until about 3 days ago. He's actually been feeling a little better than me lately so I think after the "tough" part is over - everyone really starts to vary from everything I've read and our own experience. i take my hat off to Queenie though for making it through with no sleep medicine? WOW... we tried, we couldn't take it. I was SO suicidal and everything was just SO horrible when I went just one night with only 2 1/2 hours sleep which was split up during that night. COULD NOT sleep more than an hour at a time, it was unbearable. Don't get me wrong, even with sleeping pills sleep is questionable during these withdrawals, but man they helped so much. Anyway, just wanted to hop on here and thank Queenie. I do have my whole withdrawal ordeal wrote down in a journal.... will probably post somewhere when I feel better. We used someone else's withdrawal journal to make it through this whole ordeal... we read it everyday onine to see what we could expect that day... it really helped... www.suboxonetaper.com He felt 95% at Day 12... I don't agree with this... not for us anyway.... but everyone't different. Guess I've typed enough. THanks.


queenie 7 years ago

chickadee, thank you it was not easy and im glad you gained something from my daily online journal. As far as the sleep thing went, i took two weeks off from work and prob needed to take three. Im a vet when it comes to detox(stupid i know)so i knew what to expect.My job is pretty important(more for others than me)so i really couldnt work on no sleep. Sub is a long drawn out w/d but it is acheivable. Today im happy and healthy and sleep great. I continue to come back to this site b/c i like to see how others are doing that did this with me and to inspire others. Keep up the good work! At 16 days you are so close to feeling like the person you were made to be. Opiates are awesome and if they were free i'd prob be dead. But the reality is they suck you in and then turn on you and subsequently we make poor choices. In the last four years ive managed to put alot of my life back together and that was what compelled me to stop using again. Like you i lost alot over the years but im greatful for what i have and that i came out in 1 piece. i know so many who were'nt as fortunate. Keep us posted.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well yesterday i took my pm dose and felt fine all night. i got geezzz like at least 9 hours of sleep. i feel good now and usually when i wake up the first thing on my mind is sub sub sub...like those seagulls in finding nemo but subs instead of mine. and i have to ignore it and hold off so i can take my doses later on in the day so my tapering stays on track. but i really don't feel the need to take them right now. so today is day 4 @ .75mg and tomorrow i am suppose to go down to .50mg and i'm nervous i know this is only a small change but it really does make a difference. the first day is the hardest it seems well for me and it as they go on better which i thought would be the opposite. so i'll be taking my wee doses later and let ya know how i feel and all that. oh & this is the way to go man....anybody lookin' to come off subs...taper taper taper!!! no pain no problem min. w/d i mean min.

funtimes i posted last night b4 bed but it's not here...not sure what i did wrong but it had a movie list. i don't have time right this second so i'll be back in a wee bit and i'll hook ya up if you have a specific genre let me know...otherwise i'm just mix it up...oh fight club...can you say one of the best damn movies ever!!! talk about nihlism...tyler is the man...wooooooo! dude i love the parking lot scene where he's acting like bruce lee and right after norton tries shooting tyler...he's like your shooting at your imaginary friend or whatever but the kick and like yell soooo funny...that movie is great and the pixies were a perfect choice for the end!!! oh and marla...she reminds me of me her school of thought...but i'm instead i use my "dark side" to validate my addiction...ah alright explained it but fight club...book is even better! the fat used in the soap actually came from marla's mom she sent to marla to save for when marla need to make her lips fuller....and she stores at tylers and he uses to well ya know but in the movie he goes to the clinic to get the fat....selling the high and mighty their asses back!! got damn and chuck's other books don't even come close to fight club i've read i'm pretty sure all of them their okay some cool ideas but fight club....stands on it's own that is a great modern day classic that i would use if i taught an entry level philo. class. k well i'll get that list for ya. oh hey i can't believe that my body adjusted to the .75mg...i'm so psyched i still have a wee bit to go but i'm taking my time...i think my body's been through enough. and ya know what like my cycle is trying to get off as fast as i can and that i think is bad like all the suffering that's your body telling you something and since def. of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results i thought i'd take it slow and allow my body to heal as i went and that would be a positive thing all around breaking the cycle my body is used to the high and lows i want it to be used to being calm/normal. what ya think?


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

funtimes...i have a literary question...k well i don't know if your a fan of Dexter...if you don't know what i'm talking about it's a showtime series..you'd enjoy it...i do immensely...well the dark passenger is mentioned and for some reason when i try to find the original poem only dexter and modern poems are brought up...i remember in high school choosing this poem for a class i had and well i feel like i'm loosing my mind maybe it was something similar but i'm pretty sure it was that...have you heard of this poem and who is the original author? or is it just a concept maybe from another work that i maybe pulled it from? idk please help....grrrr.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.75mg day 4 [tapering day 8]

.25mg am dose

well i just started to feel the chills so i took my .25mg dose. it's funny cause in my head it's like it just started try to fight it off as long as you can that's the way to get off them. but actually that goes against tapering and slowly allowing your body to adjust....it's weird but this is def. working. the only w/d i have felt thus far are really the chills when i was restabalizing i had all types of things going on but now since i'm taking my time it's like nothing...no anxiety or depression [well what is naturally there but no crazy w/d bs], no aches, no stomach pains or problems i eat well i do have an appetite..nothing really that intolerable...i'm starting to really think of my pasts experiances just ripping myself down & off and the torture of it all .... how bad is that for you? it can't be healthy

oh and there is alot of talk about the ill effects of MMT & subs....personally i think dr.'s are uneducated in this field...experience is key...they lack that...they only have what their research shows them....i feel yes opiates in general are pure evil however when i got on MMT then subs i was grateful i used them as a platform to build a healthy life and to fix my social maladaptive behaviors that i learned in my addiction. there is no quick fix...and coming off sucks but i feel subs afford us the opportunity to do it according to our body's pace, frame of mind, life style so in away you can look at as a bridge as well as the freedom to detox at your will...i don't think using in general leaves a person feeling complete but i say take the responibilty of detox into your hands don't leave in your dr's you know you best just be grateful the stepping stones that once weren't there are....just see subs for what they should be.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well i'm just taking a break from cleaning and nobody has posted other than me...so i sort of feel like i'm talking to myself...lol.....nothing new!!!

funtimes......here's the movie list

<!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:AnkeHand; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-2147483645 0 0 0 1 0;} @font-face {font-family:Rabiohead; panose-1:0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; mso-layout-grid-align:none; punctuation-wrap:simple; text-autospace:none; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->

Factory Girl

Killing Zoey

Chelsea Walls

I’m Not There

Snatch

Gonzo: The Life and Work of Hunter S. Thompson

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Across the Universe

Lost highway

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

Hotel Rwanda

The Usual Suspect

The Acid House

Deception

The Fountain

The Others

Blue Velvet

Lock Stock & Two Smokin’ Barrels

Smokin' Aces

The Midnight Meat Train

Righteous Kill

Mulholland Drive

Revolver

Wristcutters: A Love Story

Slipstream

Walled In

The Children of Huang Shi

Burn After Reading

The Poughkeepsie Tapes

The Hoax

Lars and the Real Girl

Kalifornia

Wonderland

Boy in the striped pajamas

Choked

k well it's a miss and match i liked alot of them and some not great but entertaining i recommend you look them up so you can see what their about. i gotta go


queenie 7 years ago

merchant, i dont think any of the w/d symtoms i spoke about happened until i actually stopped taking subs completely. i was only taking 1 mg a day for along time before i jumped off. Your doing great tapering and until your ready to do physical battle dont jump off cause chances are you will experience symptoms. Its amazing that such a tiny piece of that pill is so powerful. Someone said sub is 40x stronger than morphine. Do you know anything about that cause i have'nt reserched it. How bout we just agree not to talk about religion anymore and just focus on the issue at hand.? .....Truce?


withdrawl again... 7 years ago

Thank god for this site!! I have 27 days clean today from a raging IV heroin addiction and like a dummy tood Subs to detox at home and am now paying the price. I was on 8mg's 2x's a day and within 2 weeks went down to 2, I know not smart, but, I only had a few left and did not want to rely on Subs any longer. THANK GOD for that cause I am in Sub withdrawl hell! My last dose of a quarter of an 8mg pill was 4 days ago and I was clueless as to why the last 2 days I was feeling like I got hit with a Mack Truck!

I too have the sneezes, ZERO energy, restless legs, anxiety, the whole nine yards and I was only on the Subs for a few weeks!!! If anyone is reading this who is considering taking Subs, don't, unless you plan on this hell or being on them for the rest of your life. Now, I can say that the subs DID help with the h withdrawl, but, had I known that the detox from Subs would be so narly and LONG after reading all these posts, I would have said f it, I will take them for the 3 days of hard core withdrawl and then stopped.

I too work a program and attend meetings daily and I can say that the support from AA or NA is def one of the most important things you can do for your sobriety. You just don't realize the help and support you get from those cats. My suggestion, go to meetings, get a sponsor and get active, I know that sounds like the last thing to do if your on this site cause I find it difficult just getting in the shower, but, trust me, it's worth it!

I am miserable, but, I am not going back to the hell that once was of chasing that drug on a daily basis. We all can do this, just stay strong and it WILL get better, I have def learned that by reading each and every post on this site!!!


Fun Times 7 years ago

Queenie is super sexy everyone.....awwwwwwwwwwww yeah. and if you really look at her posts....she is the most thoughtful and helpful person on this site. yes...i am trying to embarass her....but yes...it's all true. i do remember benicio del toro (H addict) saying to the little girl in 'things lost in the fire'..."i like compliments". c'mon...who doesn't. i mean really...Queenie you really go out of your way to be helpful to people...and unlike myself...are always thoughtful and caring and you possess great judgment. maaannnnnnnnn....you're so cute.

it would be nice to have a fun (times????) atmosphere on this site where people could come on...and just have laugh. laugh about this or that or anything. if someone needs to get something off their chest that's serious...do it. we'll all try and offer support. c'mon troopers...for everyone out there feeling a bit chilly...for real...i live in chicago....it's fucking winter 8 months out of the year. i know it's your chilliness....but i keep thinking...fuck man...why i so fucking frozen (post Easter-swearing again...but committed to change) that i couldn't move for an hour and a half after my 83 minute night sleep. 100% honestly...by the time i got chilly...i was singing "Alayuiah!!!" and dancing a jig! ohhhhh boy. this means you're all doing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than me....so keep it up ladies and gents. kudos.

yeahhhhh...my genius buddy (best friend since age 6) had to correct me...karl marx said religion was the opium of the people...not fyodor d. that fuckers always right. lol. hey...at least he didn't know that freud snatched nietzche's chick. hahaha. not that smart.

listen to what this guy did. 100% true. unreal. i have to say for the sake of anyone who might be reading that i might just making this up. for his protection. i previously posted that i had friends shooting weight of raw H. he used the most. (i was cool...i just snffed it ;) )he had some deal with a guy that he would hold some (alot) of weight of raw H...and in return...get this: he could use at much as he wanted. period. so i get clean (off subs...i quit using H a lonnnnng time ago)...and he get's on subs to kick. i'm taking him to meetings...we're loving it. then he calls me today all scared (he's really shy). he tells me G-, i don't know quite how to say this, and i'm kinda nervous telling you...but i've been lying about something. i said...yeahhhh...i know...your back on H. he said no. I TOOK SUBOXONE FOR 7 DAYS AND QUIT...I'VE BEEN CLEAN FOR 21 DAYS OFF EVERYTHING.

are you fucking kidding me? mind you all...he get's into my car after NA meeting freezing his fucking ass off....i mean he was shaking...so he wasn't high...and the best i could get out of him was....'uhhhhmmm...can you please turn on the heat just a little".

FUCK! i know i said before 'if it ruff it aint me'. now i feel like a schoolgirl crying in the playground b/c someone grabbed my ponytail. i was like "dude...you just did the unfathomable...why were u nervous about telling me...that's awesome. get this: his answer: "well...i kinda new you were having a ruff time with your kick...and i didn't want to be like Sickboy from Trainspotting and 'upstage' you by how easy i kicked".

i don't know about everyone else...but when i hear someone with a habit like that (i am talking 3 full rigs at a crack...lined up to do at once...full of UNCUT(?) H at LEAST 3 times a day...kicking and not even telling me b/c he didn't want to hurt my feelings...I GET INSPIRED. If this fuckers not complaining...fuck me...i aint either. periooood.

hope that story was entertaining and inspiring to someone who read it. i kinda really did happen. he's kinda sitting next to me. that said...remember folks...not only is this not supposed to be fun...but try and have a laugh over this stuff. thanks merchant for the movie list. i feel for you merchant...you are a human being just trying to dissect alot of informatio scrambling around your head. personally...i don't give a shit what you say about religion...i'm not considering u an expert b/c of a theology minor and a misplaced belief in zeitgeist. yeahhhh...i play nice too. but really...i asked before if we could all get along. sexy Queenie asked that religion be takin off the table. and in my best judgment i humbly say....If Religion is helping people stay clean, and if God is helping them like He is helping me...fuck all that...God can stay...and keep the shit up about how God is the tooth fairy and i swear...you will be writing to yourself. you said Virgil is your inner strength, right? how the fuck do we know that he exists. i never seen him. i reading a post from a peson called mercahntofdeath and is that some kinda proof to me that virgil exists...or do i call him the tooth fairy? i'm gonna be cool and say...hey...if virgil is helping you stay clean...that is awesome. i not gonna knock this guy or your relationship with him. i encourage u to find a joyful life with him. extend the same courtesy to the rest of us human beings who have a relationship with God. alright. is that asking too fucking much. i know...u can see virgil and we can't see God. guess what I can't see God or virgil. it could be your dog for all i know. quit that shit already...just be cool merchant. i want u here and want u clean...and hope we can have really really cool discussions. just don't blindly say shit that is gonna hurt someone's chance of recovering. use your common sense...man. i really dig u merchant...and i dig everyone on this site. Let's fuck around...laugh as much as we can...support each other in every possible way...and everyone go home a winner. if my fucked up buddie just did without flinching (m*****fucker)...we can to. luv u all.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

queenie...all is fair in love and war...no worries...and all though i'm kinda hardcore or whatever...believe it or not i wasn't offended by anything you said so it's all good...no truce even needed there was never a problem just a good ol' debate...plus i think it's good for people of my sort to know their not alone and they could get over this even if they don't believe in god ya know...and queenie can express your beliefs it's all good i want you to that's you ya know i really do accept people for who they are i love differences that's how you learn i am not at all about making you uncomfortable and if i did i'm sorry i wasn't more clear when expressing myself...i should work on clarifying my intentions but they weren't ill i promise you that...just close your eyes and pictures how often you here god mentioned in recovery now pic. those who can't relate...what guidance do they get from groups or rehab? they're sort of in no man's land ya know...and i feel like my voice can maybe open people's eyes to that....that's were alot of my passion comes from actually it's like there's no spiritual autonomy...seriously please don't feel like you can't talk about something so important to you i would be very upset and then may have to yell at you.. :) to thy self be true

and here's some info that you requested:(i love missions...thanks!!!)

The oripavine derivative etorphine is a representative of a particularly potent class of morphine analogues. Etorphine is approximately 1000 times as potent as morphine, and arguably is too potent to be released for human therapy. It is currently used as a tranquilizer for large animals. A newer, related analogues is buprenorphine, which is a potent mu agonist (0.3 mg = 10 mg morphine) that dissociates very slowly from the opiate receptor, giving it a longer duration of action. It also shows antagonist activity in the rat tail flick test. There is some question as to whether naloxone can reverse respiratory depression in patients who have overdosed on buprenorphine. It is used by injection for moderate to severe pain relief. In sublingual form, the products Suboxone® and Subutex® are used in the treatment of opiate addiction. Subutex contains only buprenorphine, and is used for the initial phase of treatment, followed by Suboxone®, which also contains naloxone.

the web site i pulled it from:

http://wiz2.pharm.wayne.edu/module/opioid.html

i don't know what your education background is but this is sort of intense in organic chem. & neuropharm. but hey either way i say scope it out.

another site which is just a pdf of published research on bup. on pain relief is :

http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/reprint/24/2/186.pdf

if you scroll down their are charts and some written information on strength and some charts it does have some comparisons to morphine...however i think you'll get your best data if you pull a similar researh publication and compare and contrast the effects of dosing/time.

and here is an abstact from another study:

BACKGROUND: The aim of this study was to evaluate the analgesic effect of PCA buprenorphine (intravenous) on postoperative pain in gynecologic patients of Taiwan and the potency ratio of buprenorphine versus morphine, a commonly used potent analgesic. METHODS: Fifty women undergoing abdominal total hysterectomy under spinal anesthesia were enrolled into the investigation. Patients were randomly divided into 2 groups (n = 25 each). Group 1 received intravenous buprenorphine using PCA device for the management of postoperative pain, whereas Group 2 received PCA morphine for the same purpose. During the first 48 hours postoperatively, we collected the following data: demand and delivery of analgesics, pain scores, vital signs, nausea, vomiting and pruritus. RESULTS: Despite different treatments, we found that pain scores on day 1 and day 2 postoperatively were low and were not significantly different between groups. Also, times of demand for delivery of PCA medication were not significantly different between groups. The cumulative consumption of buprenorphine and morphine within 48 h were 1.5 +/- 0.6 mg and 36 +/- 7 mg, respectively. The potency ratio between buprenorphine and morphine was 24:1. Both treatments showed only minor side effects. CONCLUSIONS: We found that PCA buprenorphine (intravenous) could be effective in the treatment of postoperative pain in the gynecologic patients in Taiwan and the potency ratio of buprenorphine versus morphine appeared to be 24:1.

so i would say it's fair to say that the ratio of potency is apx. 30-20:1 and structurally it has a significant difference hence the insane 1000 times stronger quoted on the first site. and of course their are other variables to consider.

oh and i know i won't get off scott free but tapering makes a huge difference. one of my b/f did it and man i couldn't believe how easy she had it....i just never had the patience....but now it's weird i swear i can feel my body adjusting and i've done extensive research on it...it's healthier and has positive results the idea of subs they attach and distrubtion are ideal for tapering that's why they were approved in the beginning now for some reason their a maintance program but hey whatever keeps ya off the streets and manageable. but hey either way we'll find out soon enough.....i'm on .50 today and the day will be here soon enough.

withdrawal again: no need to kill yourself...you should taper...i mean do as you like but being on scheduled taper allows your brain to start compensating for the years of not needing to produce the neurotransmitters needed as you taper it replenishes so you'll not go through insane w/d. i've seen this done before and it works i just always wanted to be clean NOW and never tried it but i was only setting myself up for failure the w/d may even make you want a quick fix...be careful....sub w/d is long lasting but then again it could be done easily w/patience.if you scroll up you can find a site...drugs.com where they're really good at this....i don't go to a dr. plus this is on an individual basis. you have yet to feel the worse of it so i recommend staying strong and using all your support....i wish ya the best.

funtimes wow that's the point i don't care if god is here and i was rebuttalling after a while...i took it as an intellectual debate not a personal attack and fine i won't sell out my beliefs b/c you threaten to not talk to me that's a bs request. you can't see the offense??? i never directly attacked anybody i'm pretty sure i was like thats for you cool however this is how i feel....and me saying what i believe isn't okay b/c it offends you....well i guess it's only allowed to be one way i can't take offense to what i think is bs and has caused more death than anything??? sorry that's a no go...look i'm not even bothered now ostericize me fine...i sort of feel like you just shown the bigot in you and that's not very attractive....we are here for addiction and their are so many atheist that feel alone b/c of the major influence of god in recovery...i know i hated rehab for that very point i wanted something i could relate to i was knocking them but i felt dismissed...i'm very spiritual and have alot of positive beliefs as do many of my sort and i will not be oppressed b/c of my differences and i hope anybody else that sees this and is on the same page can find solace their not alone it's okay not to be the majority and they're a good person that can get clean and not forsake their beliefs...and i never intended to hurt anybody's recovery it was meant as a discussion and why once again is this only one way??? try following the steps and be me...i have to be creative...try lookin for advice oh wait it usually goes back to god...hey i've adapted but will not be silenced and sorry if my beliefs bother you...i was simple expressing my opinion and as a matter of fact your bring it up again not me dude i haven't mentioned in the last few posts i was bor


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

bored with it...redundancy.i wasn't out of line in the least i always reassured whoever it wasn't even directed at anybody just the general belief that whatever gets them through the day just i feel this way...dude one of my best friends is a born again preacher....we go back and forth no judgements made...sorry funtimes but i think you've lost perspective...keep an open mind.

oh and come on virgil was an analogy...really...and dude he's a greek author...he did exsist...but i wasn't being literal...


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

not greek...meant to say roman....like dante....homer was his greek equivalent.

Virgil:

Better times perhaps await us who are now wretched.

Come what may, all bad fortune is to be conquered by endurance.

Each of us bears his own Hell.

It is easy to go down into Hell; night and day, the gates of dark Death stand wide; but to climb back again, to retrace one's steps to the upper air - there's the rub, the task.

Every man makes a god of his own desire.

this isthe quote i think that best sums up all of the conversations:

'The time has come,' the walrus said, 'to talk of many things: of shoes and ships - and sealing wax - of cabbages and kings.'

-l carroll


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Day 18, and my shoulder and neck pain & reoccuring leg pain I have been experiencing the past 5 days is finally subsiding... I think, I hope. I don't know about any of you, but things definitely get worse for me at night. I never imagined Day 11 and 12 would be pretty good, and then I would drop back down into another vicious cycle, but I think it might be just about done. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.... who woulda thought. A guy that hosts this sub website I go to says he has had about a thousand emails, and out of those only 6 people actually tapered and got off subs. How crazy is that. I just can't get over how mislead I was by my doctor about methadone and suboxone. I can't wait until I'm 100% so I can call and tell her of the hell I've been through. I'm only 25, and she wanted me to stay on methadone the rest of my life. Then she told me I should stay on subs the rest of my life. Then she misled me to believe she had had people she was treating that had actually came off subs, and it wasn't hard at all. I talked to her a week after that, and she admitted..."Well, no, I don't actually have anyone that has stopped taking it...yet." We missed our appointment on the 7th of this month so I bet she thinks we're back on opiates. LOL. She didn't know a thing about how to taper... we brought our written down plan to her, and she didn't even really look at it. If we had stuck to that plan, we'd only be down to 1mg instead of 18 days clean. I gave my subs to my best friend (since 3rd grade), and the day I gave them to her I was trying to explain how she should take it to get off pills, and she wasn't even listening. They don't have much money so eventually she started taking the sub to feel good (I guess) - she abused it - was taking 12mg a day for about a week, and she ran out not last night but the night before. So yesterday was day 1 for her. Haven't talked to her today yet. She's one of those people that thinks she's fine, and she's not going to have any withdrawals. I told her she might not.... I dunno. Everyone is so different. SHe was only on it a week, but at a sorta high volume SO? I'm so worried about her... she has three kids, and NO ONE to help. I've been blessed with someone to watch my children the ENTIRE time, and couldn't have done it otherwise. I'm going to confess to her today, something I've been thinking about for a while now since I quit taking the subs.... I can not and will not risk my sobriety to be her friend. My kids and husband should come first, and they haven't in a long time & I can't be talking to someone who talks about pills 24/7. We've been friends almost 20 years. I can't believe I might have to cut the cord. I don't see her quitting unless there are no withdrawals. But she knows if she tries to take a full antagonist, she's not going to feel it for several days so she's screwed either way. Well hubbie's up... have lots to say about y'all's other comments so I will get back on here later.....


Dog 7 years ago

Well, this is the clearest my head has been in a long time. I have been off the oxys for about a week and getting stable on about 4 mgs of sub. Everytime my head gets clear, I really want to blow it off, when I start thinking about the time, energy, and MONEY I have wasted on this fvcken garbage. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF FOR IT.

Then, knowing that once I feel better in another 2-3 weeks, I have to go through this sh1t all over again coming off the sub and will not sleep right for probably a whole year. Talk about nothing to look forward to. It is what it fvcken is, I guess.


Fun Times 7 years ago

good morning everyone. i had a thought. i remembered during the beginning of my kick...i was calling my buddy...and laughing my ass off about the kick. i really was. the funny part was me laughing at myself for being so stupid that i just kept kicking like every year. and never learned. i was laughing about what son of a gun (working on swearing) this kick was.

now...i wasn't laughing so much alone. so i firmly believe that a newly recovering addict by him or herself is in terrible company. i hope everyone has a friend that can relate to this situation and laugh at it and laugh at themselves. it takes the sting away...clears your head...and laughter produces good chemicals in your body. when my buddy came freezing cold in the car afte meetings....i couldn't stop laughing if i tried. which made him start laughing (the guys ruff). but laughter...like yawning is contagious. i know its not fun folks...but i would advise against letting self-pity envelope your mind and just try and have a good laugh as often as possible possible. when you feel depressed...please remember...love yourself. and love everyone else too.

and a final point. as for my kick...one thing i really noticed. it ebbed and it flowed. in the beginning (day 2) the pain/discomfort was really flowing. then it would like ebb for 20 minutes. by day 10 or so...an hour of bad times...then a tolerable hour. by day 90...no more pain...just lacking a little motivation. all is well.

I don't remember if I ever thanked Recovering Addict for starting up this site. Thanks so much. it has truly helped me a ton. it's one of the tools that is helping me save my life. the site and the good natured people on it. and my special friend. take care all.

ps.K- haven't heard from you in a minute. lemme know u are doing well.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I meant agonist


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Hey guys... for some reason I get the feeling like I'm not fitting in here??!! (and I want to) Am I that boring? LOL... forgive me, I AM going through withdrawals, and I still don't feel clear in the head so if I ramble, I'm sorry. ANd if I'm not interesting, I apologize. I used to be the life of the party, what happened to me? SHIT... Dog: I feel your frustration about the subs being just SOMETHING ELSE you gotta get off of. BUT I tried stopping methadone which is suppose to last quite a while itself, and I only made it 8 days... I was either going to kill myself (literally) or go on subs. I'm glad I made the choice to go on subs. If you look on the net, there are SOOOO many different stories about suboxone. It ranges from no withdrawals to people committing suicide because of the withdrawals...... some people can taper and be fine, some people taper to nothing and still go through hell. It's just soooo crazy to me how different everyone is. No matter what though, I think the key is to taper as low as you can, prepare yourself, and take the plunge because otherwise you're gonna be on the shit the rest of your life or you'll exchange it for something else.... everyone says it, there is NO easy way out from opiate addiction for most people. Today is day 18, and I am doing ok.... you do have something to look forward to, and it might not even be that bad for you... you can't worry yourself to death about it. Heed everyone's advice about how to get through it. The right vitamins, gatorade, water, showers, sunlight, all that. Shop in advance. Embrace the days you do feel better and try not to worry if tomorrow is going to be bad again because I feel like I've been so up and down & now I realize I have to be grateful for the up days. You've gotta be ready to stop... everything. It does take will power, but if you're like me I just got so sick of everything.... it was just time. Do your research, but be weary of misinformation..... there's a lot of it out there.... don't listen to the people that say a year later they're still not sleeping right.... either something else is going on or they're one of the rare ones. If you dread it, it will be worse. Try to look forward and be happy you are getting sober when you do come off the subs. GOOD LUCK... I will answer any questions you have about the withdrawals.....


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.50mg day 1 [tapering day 9...i think w/out double checking]

.25am dose

well i woke up at 645am and i've been feeling fine...i waited until 2pm to take my dose and still feel fine. slight chills hear and there but ever since i started getting up and moving about that's disapated. and for all the mixed opinions on what happens to you when you come off...well i'm trying to take a sample and see what the general consensus at least in regard to tapering cause we obviously know what to expect when cold turking it.but as far as i've been it seems with each day of the 4 day increments my body slowly adjusts to the new dose...i get chills and some restlessness nothing really that bad at all better than getting a cold in fact...sometimes my face gets runny or whatever when waiting to take my pm dose but by the 4th day it all gets less...so i'm really hoping that pattern sticks i'm pretty sure i can work with it...it'll take a while to be completely sub free but worth it i mean in i have like 4mg left man that should last at least 3 weeks...imagine that. some people said they were skipping like 3 days then taking .25mg ya know at the end of their schedule and forgot to take and just stayed clean b/c they didn't even really notice anything at all.....that's what i'm talking about...i guess we'll see i'll keep this going till i'm done...i love the day by day detox on here it's my fav. part of this hub.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Subfreechickadee!!!!!! Welcome!!!!!! Listen young lady...you are in like the top three or four of people (as far as days off subs) on this site! believe me...you are very welcome here. we got a couple rambling psychpaths (like me)...and we need to balance it out with some reasonably sane people like you. EVERYONE kicking this shit is very welcome here.

you have a greast mesage...many great points. SHOWER LIKE CRAZY. it helps. sunlight...yeah..can't wait until i get some of that in chicago...but i'm happy...through an act of God i kicked in the winter. something to look forward to. and you young lady have made it to the other side!!!!!!! 18 days with no subs...it's all funtimes from here!!! really. i was on them way top long...over 3.5 years...and i was using other stuff. so it took me a little while to feel cool. and i didn't taper with any judgment...i went from 8 to zeo pretty quick. your best point. imo...is "embrace the days you feel better and don't worry about the future (slight paraphrase)". Stay cool JUST FOR TODAY. anxiety is actually a split of two greek roots (which escape me)...one being "mind" and the other meaning "half". in other words...people aren't anxious about things in the past...they get anxious (nervous...worried) about the future. our minds are literally split in half...one part is in the present and the other is in the future. hence...anxiety may arise. live in the now. good girl. and yeahhhh...be motivated. focus on the positive. i don't know anyone else's situation here regarding this...but i'll speak for myself. i do not have another opiate kick in me. no way. if i screw this one up i may as well put a bullet in my head. i have not had one singular thought of using any illegal drugs since this whole thing kicked off three months ago...and not even a drug dream. i think being in recovery-NA meetings, w/ a sponsor (who is an ex-marine and tells me G-shut the fuck up already when i go on these rants) has provided really positive reinforcement. i aint picking up shit...and i hoping that nobody else here ever does again too. nice to meet you. take care.


7 years ago

Wow..i go away for the weekend and all hell breaks loose on this site! I'm sad i missed out on the "higher power" debate, although i'm pretty sure no one would want to hear what i have to say (well maybe merchant). I'm doing pretty well - Fun Times thanks for asking. I went to the taj mahal which is the first thing i've done drug free in years. every major trip or milestone in my life has had a little footnote... *i was using ____ when this happened. for the past two years its been oxys or h before work, going out with friends, visiting family, flying on a plane..anything and everything. it was the only way i could even possibly imagine enjoying or just tolerating anything. this was a big step...especially still detoxing and being weak and having all the w/d symptoms but i did it. and once i got through all of the initial stress and anxiety of having to function in public for an extended period of time with people that i work with (COMPLETELY FUCKING SOBER), i actually enjoyed myself and had a worthwhile experience.

I'm jealous of you Fun Times...no drug dreams or intense urges to use?? I can't go a night without waking up feeling this deep emptiness because all my dreams are surrounding drugs. I still smoke to calm my nerves and that really helps me sleep and limits the amount of dreaming i do, but whenever i do remember a dream, it has to do with using (real drugs not pot or hash) and in them i am always furious because i know that i should be using (but i do) and even worse, i dont get fucked up (i'm guessing because it is a dream). I do the stuff and then wait....and nothing happens. and i wake up frustrated and feeling like i did actually use but without any of the fun stuff. I still have that lingering guilt that hangs over my head for the rest of the day, because in every dream i give in. and i know i shouldn't, but inevitably i always succumb to the temptation. in real life though i've been good..I don't search out this stuff. but if i were to ever stumble upon a bottle of oxy 80s or a bundle of heroin, i'm not sure what i would do or if i would be able to restrain myself.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

Analgesic / Opioid Strength (Codeine) Equivalent Dose (30 mg codeine) Aspirin (non-opioid) 1/36 1080 mg Difusinal (NSAID, non-opioid) 1/16 480 mg Dextropropoxyphene[1] 1/4 120 mg Codeine 1 30 mg Tramadol 1 30 mg Anileridine[2] 2.5 12 mg Pethidine 3.6 8.3 mg Hydrocodone 6 5 mg Morphine 10 3 mg Oxycodone 15-20 1.5-2 mg Morphine IV/IM 40 0.75 mg Hydromorphone[3] 50 0.6 mg Oxymorphone 70 0.4 mg Levorphanol[4] 80 0.26 mg Buprenorphine[5] 400 0.075 mg Fentanyl 500-1000 0.03-0.06 mg Carfentanyl 1,000,000

30 pg (Used only in sedating large animals)


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

Opioid Conversion Table Opioid Strength (Codeine) Equivalent Dose (30 mg codeine) Strength (Morphine) Equivalent Dose (10 mg morphine mg) Aspirin 1/36 1080 mg 1/360 3600 mg Difusinal 1/16 480 mg 1/160 1600 mg Dextropropoxyphene 1/4 120 mg 1/40 400 mg Codeine 1 30 mg 1/10 100 mg Tramadol 1 30 mg 1/10 100 mg Anileridine 2.5 12 mg 1/4 40 mg Demerol 3.6 8.3 mg .36 27.8 mg Hydrocodone 6 5 mg .6 16.67 mg Morphine 10 3 mg 1 10 mg Oxycodone 15-20 1.5-2 mg 1.5-2 4.5-6 mg Morphine IV/IM 40 .75 mg 4 2.5 mg Hydromorphone 50 .6 mg 5 2 mg Oxymorphone 70 0.4 mg 7 1.4 mg Levorphanol 80 0.26 mg 8 .8 mg Buprenophine 400 0.075 mg 40 .25 mg Fentanyl 500-1000 0.03-0.06 mg 50-100 0.1-0.2 mg Carfentanyl*** 1,000,000 30 pcg 100,000 100 pcg

queenie these are opiates in ratio w/ 30 mg of codeine & 10 mg of morphine.... thought it might be useful to ya...the first post was confusing so i am trying to fix it


cdizz 7 years ago

So for me it has been 45 days clean off subs. I will say that suboxonetaper.com gives a very good representation of what to expect from days 1-25. My issue now is how have people felt from day 25 on? Like I stated it is now day 45 for me yet I have lingering issues. My mind still feels like its clouded and my anxiety level is very high. The best way I can describe this is that I feel constantly dizzy and cannot concentrate very well and its just an overall feeling of being uncomfortable and dizzy. My stomach is also pretty messed up still and I get heartburn quite often. I feel as if im backsliding but I do not have any cravings for opiates by the way. The hell of opiate addiction has been so bad that turning back is NOT an option. I am just curious to know if anyone has had this similar problem after day 25+ and when it began to subside for them if you had these long lasting side effects. I am aware of PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawl Syndrome) and think this may be the culprit.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

cdizz...here's a website about PAWS and what to do...

http://digital-dharma.net/addiction/post-acute-wit...

http://www.medhelp.org/tags/show/30016/Post-Acute-...

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) is a set of impairments that occur immediately after withdrawal from alcohol or other substances. The condition lasts from six to eighteen months after the last use and is marked by a fluctuating but incrementally improving course. PAWS/Rebound-Many substances can cause rebound effects (significant return of the original symptom in absence of the original cause) when discontinued, regardless of their tendency to cause other withdrawal symptoms.. Occasionally light users of opiates that would otherwise not experience much in the way of withdrawals will notice some rebound depression as well. Extended use of drugs that increase the amount of serotonin or other neurotransmitters in the brain (opioids including buprenorphine) can cause some receptors to 'turn off' temporarily or become desensitized, so, when the amount of the neurotransmitter available in the synapse returns to an otherwise normal state after wd's, there are still fewer receptors to attach to, causing feelings of depression/fatigue until the brain re-adjusts (Receptors turn on again). Buprenorphine PAWS/rebound seem to differ a bit from the typical/textbook definition of PAWS. The lingering effects from bup/sub seem to be more of fatigue, lack of motivation, or lack of energy that slowly restores over the course of months. Sometimes you feel ok, and a week later you will feel crappy again. Its VERY frustrating and unpredictable, and its almost impossible to gauge improvement on a day to day basis, some entire weeks/months are better than others. One thing that does appear to hold some validity, the longer you were on sub, the longer the PAWS will last. I would not state that you are feeling depression initially. However, feeling exausted, fatigued, and lazy for months is certainly a cause for depression all on its own.

There are many supplements you can take to increase neurotransmitter production, but without many active or desensitized receptor sites there is no way to produce the proper balance of endorphins (dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine) naturally to get absorbed by enough receptors to feel good. Time seems to be the best way to combat PAWS, and that is the most frustrating part of the whole ordeal.


cdizz 7 years ago

Thanks merchant. All very imformative. As far as supplements go I take 5HTP herbal supplement which is a mood enhancer and seems to help. My despression is not very bad but I also take prozac. The fatigue and general dizziness is the most annoying and it makes doing things like school/work very difficult. I was on suboxone this time for a good 8 straight months before I came off it and I also came off it while on about 2mg a day so for those who are wonderin if you can come off suboxone while still taking a moderate amount a day after a long period of using it. You can. Just be aware that because I did not do the tapering as many recommend, it has quite possibly caused a prolonged withdrawl period for me although the worst period of W/d lasted only the first 2 weeks.

Sadly I made the huge mistake of going back on suboxone after coming off it before. The first time I was on it for around 2 months when my doctor lost his license and I was shit outta luck and had to come off it. I really dont recall much W/D if any the first time except despression and I felt great after about 2 weeks but I still worried about relapsing back onto OC so a few months later I restarted using suboxone and 8 months later I realized I couldnt be on it forever. This time around however I was hit full force with the withdrawls and wishing I had never gone back on it. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and there was no way to know this without actually going through it and hopefully I will have gained a bit more wisdom and humility which will keep me from ever going back down the same ruinous path of opiate addiction.


Fun Times 7 years ago

K-i am so proud of you. really proud. look at you-the taj mahal...man....and you're jealous of me. that's sweet. the dreams really sucked back in the day. there was a simple formula...i had a dream about using...i woke up....and used as fast as i could. i mean i hit the ground flying for dope after a dream.

this time was different.if i had the idea of picking up anything for 1 second or less, the most fleeting thought of using even the most miniscule part of a pill...or anything i actually developed like a violent flinch in my face. i got angry for that .5 second thought, and reacted viscerally. really...i'm through. just get really committed K-. pain is an awesome motivator. i hope and pray you never need it like i did. K-i swear...i swear on my father's soul...it only gets worse. i implore you to believe me. please. u have such a wondeful life ahead.

always remember...dreams are just that....dreams. nothing more. somebody once told me something interesting...an emotion is merely a thought that we place too much importance on. i found that to be really profound. it's just a thought...that we place too much importance on. when the dreams come...don't let them take up space in your mind...they aren't that important...and soon...you won't have the ruff emotional reaction to them. just dreams. just thoughts. nothing more. they're not actions. you are safe...and cool.

yeahhh...it got a little fun after you left. it's better now that your back.

as far as paws goes...as for someone going through over 90 days without subs...after using subs well over 3 years...the information seemed incredibly accurate. honestly. lack of motivation is tough...thats why i go to meetings and work very hard...and stay busy. and honestly...if i am lazy and lounging at my house after working all day and hitting a meeting...i am cool with that. i am clinically hyperactive...yeah...big suprise there hummmn. but i have learned to focus that extra energy well. i could cram a semester's worth of intellectual propery law into one night. i'm weaker than usual...which the world is grateful for. yeahhhhup.

cdizz...i'm not really sure where your symptoms are coming from. i don't think you should be feeling dizzy or have that acidic stomach thing after 45 days. maybe something else is going on with you...and a doctor could tell you. congratulations though. i'm like you now...after this many days clean after this many years...using opiates again just could never happen. it hurt me. too many times. it hurt too much. hey...it aint like day 2...right? good luck man...stay tight.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.50mg day 1

.25mg pm

i'm soooooooooooo tired. um yeah okay i took my dose at like 8ish....i had a wee bit of chills and the fake allergy thing going on but not really bad at all. i have been tired all damn day though but i don't think it's w/d i think it's b/c i was laid up since st. paddy's due to some fractured ribs and ankle w/contusion....so lately i've been up and doing things...well around the house...i did walk like 3 miles over the weekend...it was to make a point and i was drinking other wise i wouldn't have. i do think the activity helps alot...but today i just sort of looked up cognitive stuff for the wee one...ya know grouping/matching/sorting/math/letters...voltaire ya know basic pre school things...lol. oh and we kicked ass in socom earlier...anyways ya really tired all day but as far as the sub thing i seem to be okay...oh wait i was a little anxious earlier but it's hard b/c i'm fighting w/ the b/f and that's a variable and taints the whole thing so i don't know maybe a wee bit of both....however my cousin is in recovery well like 6 or 7 months clean she works at a home for preg. women on methadone...she said i sounded wound up...but she thinks it's enviromental not so much biochemical or more like i'm getting like overwhelmed and my mind is like on low so i'm more anxious about dumb stuff that normally i would blow off....whatever either way i'm good...adieu

The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning.

sorry i mentioned voltaire...couldn't resist...


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

cdizz...you might want to do some extensive research on degenerative paws...there are three forms....the link i gave ya explains it....i think learning how to manage it should be a priority...which it probably is. going to see a doc isn't a bad idea at all actually...other than just an all around check up is good after all you've been through...the doc maybe able to help ya out with your symptoms...dizzyness often occurs from the lack of sugar b/c of all the abuse we put our bodies through it takes a while to get everything up to par...i strongly urge you to look at your diet...sort of like a car with oil/octane...eat well complex sugars and proteins. and i'm just guessing the uncomfortableness is due to anxiety which can in turn make you hyperventalate w/out being aware tensing your body up which will cause an uneasy feeling physically and mentally...i mean quiet time through out the day is vital for me i need to re ground myself so much more right now until i'm well i suggest looking into whatever makes you tranquil and pursueing it with passion however if your like going insane and need like meds do what ya got a do but temp. ask about trazadone for like a week or something you take it at night it's a really light sleep med w/anti depressants in it which in turn will calm you down....depends you can gauge for yourself....i think it's a good habit for you to start learning how to naturally chill so you can incorp. that into your new life however i would never knock ya for going the other way either....sorry to ramble...i do it often but i'm sleepy and thought about how any response got me through the hour or day and felt like a jerk for not offering to you what may [or may not] be of use to you....well good luck & i check in throughout the day if you need somebody


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Thanks Funtimes, I appreciate it. Got a question... I know Queenie started sleeping better at 6 weeks... what about everyone else? I still can't sleep for more than 2-3 hours at a time even with taking Ambien or Lunesta throughout the night. Day 19... been almost 3 weeks now. I am so jealous of my hubbie.... he can take a half an Ambien and sleep all night pretty much. Is it messing me up going back and forth between Lunesta and Ambien? I had no choice though cuz I couldn't get the Ambien filled yet so I had to take Lunesta for two nights, and now I've been back on Ambien for two nights, and I haven't slept well at all those two. I also started taking 5 HTP and some other vitamins and stuff two days ago as well.... surely these aren't keeping me up?! It's been light sleep & short. Freaking sucks. MAN - I don't even wanna think about PAWS!!! NO!!! Oh I dread that shit, and I really hope you come out of it cdizz. I was only on subs 2 1/2 months.... taking other opiates all day every day heavy for the 5 or so years prior.... but damn I hope these withdrawals don't last as long or longer than I was even on the freaking subs. Am I the only one on here with kids? Small children anyway? My husband's parents have been taking care of them this whole time. I guess I consider myself really lucky to not have to worry about going to work or taking care of kids right now... I have time to heal. As much time as I need. My husband is over here snoring - DAMN HIM LOL... and I've been up bascially since 4am or something. We stayed on the same page with the withdrawals (mine might have been a little more intense) for the first 12 days... it was crazy... if one had a good day, we both did and so on... then day 13 hit, and I've had so much pain and anxiety and all kinds of shit, and he's been pretty ok just no energy and stuff. AH!!! I'm happy for him, and I love him to death, BUT it freaking sucks for me. I couldn't of made it through this without him though. NO WAY. That's why I hate mornings like this where he sleeps and sleeps, and I'm up by myself. Need to call and check on my best friend... today is day 3 of no subs for her... she was ok last night... I dunno... she wasn't taking it right... taking like 12 mg throughout the whole day, but it was only about a week so I guess we'll see what happens. She doesn't think she's going to have ANY withdrawals at all. We'll see. Later guys.


Fun Times 7 years ago

subfreechickadee...c'mon...you are the one inspiring folks not to dread what may happen tommorrow. i may get into a fatal accident when i go on lunch break (hopefully not too many people on or off this site are pulling for that one..lol)...i'll take this thing five minutes at a time when a day at a time seems long.

as for the paws...i was thinking of a couple song lyrics which reflect my 'paws' after 90 plus days (getting near 100)...

bullshit 80's song:

"she's blinding me with science....ooooh...ooooh...oooooh"

i hate that pop bullshit...some people dig it.

my kinda tune...slightly paraphrased...by Great Britaian's Hardcore

"well i just got back from vietnaaaaaaaaaaam, where i burned a town with napalllllllllllllm, the next minute it was't there, i was getting high too much to care....now i get i off on my purple heart...and i can stop you if you start...coming back now and the loose...got to get rid of those vietnameeeese blues"

its gonna be cool subfree and cdizz. give it a little time. don't fret over how bad it's supposed to be...the input gained from which data was compiled is from a control group that i don't know personally. sure...you'll be weak. sure...you'll lack motivation. tell you what though...it beats fighting that war in vietnam.

i'm glad a made a special friend on this site. i hope everyone can get as much as they can out of it. i'll be honest...guys...i can more or give a fuck about guys conplaining...just be men. cdizz..i don't mean you though...you have made it clean a month and a half and have some symptoms that i didn't. look into it. i think you're cool as hell.

i do care about the youg ladies though. who knows why. i want K-, dustybug, merchant, and subfreechikadee to do well...that's my natute. i think men are maybe a little less emotioal than ladies and should always help a damsel in distress...maybe it's chauvinist...maybe chilvarous...maybe it's just me. Queenie...you gotta know a dig you. thanks for being there for me. take care all.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

subfreechickadee....well i wouldnt' worry too much about PAWS cause you were only on subs for 2.5 months ya know. PAWS has a direct correlation with the duration of your sub use. also there are 3 types of PAWS there are links above i posted for cdizz you can scope out but here are a quick summary:

Post-acute withdrawal symptoms are not the same in everyone. They vary in how severe they are, how often they occur, and how long they last. Some people experience certain symptoms; some people have other symptoms; some people have none at all. Over a period of time PAW may get better, it may get worse it may stay the same, or it may come and go. If it gets better with time we call it regenerative. If it gets worse we call it degenerative. If it stays the same we call it stable. And if it comes and goes we call it intermittent. Regenerative PAW gradually improves over time. The longer a person is sober the less severe the symptoms become. It is easier for people with regenerative PAW to recover because the brain rapidly returns to normal. Degenerative PAW is the opposite. The symptoms get worse the longer a person is sober. This may happen even when a person is going to AA/NA and/or following some type of recovery program. People with degenerative PAW tend to become relapse prone. Sobriety becomes so painful that they feel they must self-medicate the pain with alcohol or drugs, collapse physically or emotionally, or commit suicide to end the pain. A person with stable PAW experiences the same level of symptoms for a long period of time into recovery. There may be days when the symptoms are a little better or a little worse, but essentially the symptoms remain unchanged. Most recovering people find this very frustrating because they believe that they should be feeling better the longer they are sober. With sufficient sober time many people learn to manage these symptoms.

I plan on just simple observing my symptoms, researching whichever one i may fall into, & eating right as well as having a solid schedule. However i've had paws with dope before and i remember it wasn't that bad i was okay...guess i was lucky hopefully this time will be the same ya know. as for as not sleeping i find any type of exersize crazy beneficial and no naps throughout the day def. helps kava kava and melatonin are good as well and you should be able to take them w/what your taking now but i recommend cross referencing just to be safe.oh and woman in general have higher anxiety than men hence the difference...warm milk & turkey are naturally diet sedatives try that during "wind down time" also do not taking anything throughout the day that may be stimulating like coffee or anything with caffeine stay away from sweets or fruits ya know simple sugars b4 bed. i've battled insomenia since i was really younger and found that alot of this does help but often it takes getting into the routine to show a difference. but you should see a little bit of an improvement in your sleep every night...oh and bendryl always was the best sleep med for me but no more than 50mg b/c it could have inverse effects after that.oh if you smoke cut back as the day progresses that's a stimulant.

as far as kids i have a daughter 4 she's with us 4days a week til school starts for her. she's easy though & she actually helps me out when i may need it like [not recently but the last few months i kept trying to just come off subs...what a nightmare] she's very bright and independent as well as understanding...she is clueless obviously to everything but i'll tell her i have a cold or virus. but either way she's inspiring and helps out w/anxiety and depression plus when i feel like fading into the couch or bed for the day i have to get up and move w/her and that may suck at the time but at night i'm grateful for the activity.i also have a [usually] awesome boyfriend who she adores and they do things together to strengthing their bond...like she'll go on little off roading adventures w/him and they collect pine cones and rocks...they go bug catching...she'll help him in the garage w/his truck or playing w/his rc cars...she also has a dad that's active in her life and she goes there every weekend and i did need a few days off once and he has his own buisness so he has no problem adjusting his hours and he is always helpful that way. but right now it's imperative regardless how i feel that i'm w/her b/c i have this whole education plan for her before kindergarden and i want her to complete it and since she's only child she needs to work a wee bit on her "social graces" not that she's bad she's just oblivious to other kids sometimes and likes adults.plus next year i won't be in the reserves anymore i'll be active in the army and i need her to understand why i'll be gone a few months so bonding is really important right now...i can't worry about my ailments getting in the way. hence another reason i chose to taper slowly i have so much going on that i just can't crash and burn right now just ripping off it.i did take the semester off though which lightens the load tremendously but that's okay life's not a race and my b/f has only 6 credits to go. how old are your kids? it's awesome you have support that's so important! you sound okay for where your at it's more like your just going through the motions...hang in there...it's worth it...if you've come this far i'm pretty sure your uphill battle is pretty muchover and you should be at a plateau soon. good luck!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well incase nobody notice i've yet to post my dosing thing....reason being i didn't take any subs today. last night my wisdom teeth were f'n killin' me and i barely got sleep....it was horrible so i tried motrin 800...tramadol 50mg..all to no avail. so i then took aprx. 1mg of sub which worked. this is a reoccuring problem for me when i detox it sucks i don't have the cash to get them removed yet...soon i will...so i spoke to my scheduling "sponsor" and they said to chill on .50mg for a while so my body gets acclaimated....so that's what i'm doing i've been sticking w/motrin and my pain is def. better so since i don't want to screw up all that i've done i'm gonna go back to my normal dosing schedule tomorrow. i don't have any w/d symptoms but i am tired and my routine for the day has been disrupted which sucks i napped and i really shouldn't do that but i think i'll be okay. we'll see what's goin' on tomorrow w/my body...so i'm going to stabalize on .50mg then start to go down and prob. stabalize again on .25mg for a minute...it's a process but so far i'm happy it's worth it.if my wisdom teeth weren't a problem i think i would have been fine i started my taper yesterday to .50mg and last night no w/d so whatever....where there's a while there's a way...

i dld an awesome version of monsters vs alien cam and the burrowers for later when the wee one is asleep. oh she's funny she has figured out how to "rig" her tic tac toe game...i hear her in my bedroom w/the b/f telling him he can put his little bunny peg in that hole or she won't win...she was doin' that to me all afternoon the little bugger thinks she's clever..lol...it's hard tryin' to explain it's about playin and havin fun it's not about always winning...she's 4 so yeah it's all about the win.


queenie 7 years ago

Hi guys, i just got off work and im very tired. two back to back 12 hour shifts.(cash moves everything around me cream get the money dolladolla bill y'all! anyone old enough to remember that song?) Anyway, just wanted to check in.subfreechickadee, i was on subs maybe 6 weeks to come off oxy's and have no paws so maybe you wont either and sleep will come be patient.I do know paws to be a very real thing though that can last like 18 months. Oh and fun times i would like to add a movie to Merchant's list- Gorrillas in the mist! take care y'all im going to take a long nap my friends.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

wu tang clan first ep 1995 c.r.e.a.m.

not while ...but will where there's a will there is a way...i'm like a reckless typer


queenie 7 years ago

thats weird, i posted something earlier and now its gone. anyhow, subfreechickadee,i was olny on subs like 6 weeks to come off oxy's and did not experience paws so maybe you wont either. I do know paws to be a really real thing though that last like 18 months for some folks. I just finished two back to back 12 hour shifts and found i once again have the stamina needed to pull that off. as far as sleep goes ,it will come. your body must reset to homeostasis which takes alittle time. Congratulations on making this far and it gets better and better from this point on. I suggest you go out and about and physically exert yourself to induce sleep. I forced myself to leave the house everyday after bout 10 days and i found that to be helpful. Fun Times, i would like to add a movie to Merchant's movie list...Gorrillas in the mist! Merchant and K, keep strong and i send peace from the heart of the Queen. Love Queenie


queenie 7 years ago

WTF! now after i posted this last one it was there and Merchants comment. Huh, maybe i bookmarked it or something (me was tired then) Oh well, sorry


Fun Times 7 years ago

well...i have to admit...as i did before when merchant posted the symtoms of paws (as i said then...its incredibly accurate) that i have a certain view about things (everyone has a certain view...b/c it is just that...it's their view)...which kinda goes like this:

i really try and avoid hearing things and thinking of things which are negative. even when the stuff is true...like paws. im off subs over three months. its very real...but i am focusing hard on being positive. i consider people's tapering experiences and advice to be great...b/c i wanted instant gratification when I was kicking..i wanted to be done with subs and everything NOW. and i used poor judgment. going from 8 tom zero was just stupid and impulsive. so i think people who are posting their infinetly smarter schedules are doing a great service to other people who are trying to figure out how to get off subs.

merchant...we've had some differences...but i am extremely proud of you. i cannot fanthom the anxiety and stress i would be feeling knowing that i was gonna be in the army. you really inspired me with how u are handling such a stessful situation. and i thank u for that. i said a prayer lst nite for everyone and i said a special prayer for you...that you be safe. i don't know where you are going...but i pray that you are safe.

thanks for the movie Queenie. i need to thank you so much for your support. it meant and means so much to me. you are an angel of mercy to me right now. i gotta fly...but everyone...stay hard...stay cool..BE GOOD...and i wish everyone a beautiful day,


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Ok, ok, ok.... I know, stay positive... I'll get through... I'm sorry guys, I've just been having a shitty WEEK... I feel worse today than I did yesterday, and I acutally got sleep last night kinda after two nights of hardly any so I don't know what's up with me.... I guess I just got discouraged because I still have pretty rough withdrawals, especially at night... my neck and shoulders HAVE improved THANK GOD, but my legs hurt ALL DAY every day so they kinda took the place of that - I think my problem is every time I think I feel better, I get worse so it just trips me out. Also since me and my husband lost our house and everything, we've been living with his parents (even though we have a house right down the road that we started remodeling & never finished of course) Anyway, and their house is two story - it's built into the side of a hill so from the front, you can only see the first floor - the top floor - and we live in the bottom floor which is like half basement - am I making sense? If you look at the back of the house you can see both stories & there's two porches, but anyway point being we just about live in a freaking basement. We've watched just about every freaking movie there is... our TIVO has never been this empty as well, we even watched the new XMEN movie which doesn't come out til June or something, right? LOL... We have an xbox 360, a Nintendo DS, a Wii, and a shit load of games, but STILL don't feel like playing them. I'm just ranting my frustrations, OK? I can't even hardly watch TV anyway because my anxiety is so horrible STILL. So I'm just frustrated. I almost wish I had a job to go to. We made ourselves walk over a mile yesterday, and YES that did feel good after we MADE ourselves do it. We smoke like a pack or more a day though so we were pretty winded. Quitting smoking is next of course. We live 5 minutes from a lake so we drove all down through there yesterday, looking, listening to music.... that was nice. My advice is just like Queenie's.... once you get through the rough ass stuff, YOU HAVE to get out of the house daily if possible. My husband quit his job to get off the subs, didn't have a choice. I am in awe of anyone that can work like this. Y'all are all so awesome. I'm so glad my hubbie found this site. He reads it with me everyday too. I'll tell you what people need to avoid (having unrealistic expectations).... look at MOST people that get off subs.... the norm to feel better is usually a month to six weeks, and it sounds like it can be up and down, and you have to mentally prepare yourself for that. I think that's my main problem - most people claim about every two days they feel better and better once they hit a certain point - and it's like, parts of me do feel better, but then other shit takes it's place & I'm just TIRED of being in strong pain. I've been through two child births with the epidural not working, two kidney stones (which hurt WORSE than child birth), and I've been through cervical surgery which involved sticking the hugest needle ever into me down there & having a lot of it removed while I was awake, but NONE of this lasted 20 plus days.... you know???? I'm just so wore down from it all. I got my kids to get back to.... I got my house to get back to.... I have my life to get back to.... but in the midst of bitching about all this, I REALIZED SOMETHING.... I will ACTUALLY BE LIVING my life now once it's back.... and IT IS coming back... and THERE IS something to look forward to... no pill chase, no feeling horrible when you don't have something... financial freedom again.... a REAL LIFE, WORTH LIVING... which is WORTH all the suffering... Point being - everyone's going to feel horrible going through this... everyone's going to feel despair at one time or another during this... and it's good to talk about it... Look at Queenie's story, you can watch it unfold... you can read each entry and see the improvement... that's why it's good to let it all out... so on day 20, sitting here THINKING I'm feeling bad, I can go back and look at my hand writtten journal I've been keeping and realize that I do feel way better than I did a week ago, and I am making progress, and there is something to look forward to. Just the lingering effects wear you down since it seems like it's been FOREVER since I took any subs... seems like I've been FOREVER suffering.... but compared to week one, it's nothing. So no one should take to heart the negative stuff people have written (including me)... we bitch because we can, and it's all part of the process. Feels good to.... I have mixed feelings because I do agree if I had actually known how long it would take to get back to totally "normal" (still can't remember what that is, but I"m closer than ever), I also don't know if I would of had the guts to quit, but I also believe you should know what you're getting yourself into so you can be prepared mentally. I felt really good on day 11 and 12, and then day 13 it went all to hell, and I wasn't prepared, and I think it made it worse. We didn't research til that day how long it can and usually actually lasts.... so I just don't know. I guess you just have to be really, truly ready to quit, and not care what it takes. It helps to know what to expect. By the way my best friend gave in on night two without even feeling withdrawals yet, and she took some tramadol. She said she's not ready to quit. I gave her a way out with the subs, and she didn't take it. I'm so upset. Her husband doesn't even know how bad she's on pills. Thanks everyone for all the support and advice. You are all so wonderful. I hope I didn't just rant and rave on here, hope I had something useful to say..... I was typing so fast so I dunno....LOL... Got an 8 hour trip ahead of us tomorrow... kinda excited, kinda not. Gotta go......


queenie 7 years ago

Subfreechickadee, i used icy hot for my aches and found it helpful. I believe that is the end of w/d symptoms(it was for me anyway). That and lack of sleep. You should be really proud and no doubt it takes so much will power to do this! You are a soldier for sure and your life will be rewarded! You and your man keep on keepn on.


queenie 7 years ago

hey guys, I know i've posted my entire miserable detox on here and much to some of your likings.Today however, im going to share alittle of how life has now turned around for me. I was off from work today and hung out with my best friend,her husband,and 3 year old kid. We had dinner at a mexican resturant,drank ice tea, and shared some laughs and memories. She commented on how much better i looked, that i had gained my weight back and seemed to be at peace again. About 40 min into our time at the resturant all hell broke lose as the 3 year old kept sliding under the table and stabbing our feet with a fork and then screaming when we tried to pull her up from under there. my friend stormed off saying that her man was staring at my chest which left everyone uncomfortable. by this time im looking at my ice tea and wishing i were in Long Island!To top it off i was left paying the entire bill as her man went after her and they duked it out in the parking lot and im left with this kid thats still stabbing my feet! I payed the bill and as i was leaving i shouted to the many eyes staring at me..." im not related to these people!" The car ride back to her place(where my car is) was silent i was angry that my night off was ruined by this extreme disfunction and uncomfortable set of circumstances i was trapped in at that point. When we got back to her place i went towards my car and she called out" where u going?" I looked at her and we just started laughing and then she said "welcome back kid"and i said "its good to be back". My point is im one disfunctional beotch even when im clean. .....and if im not my friends are. I wouldnt have it any other way. Who wants a boring life with boring people? Holla


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Hey guys.... GOOD NEWS.... Today is day 22, and BOTH of us started turning the corner yesterday... small withdrawal symptoms left, but NOTHING to complain about.... So now I think it's safe to say (just like Queenie before) WE MADE IT!!!! Drastic improvement!! And for the first time since this whole ordeal started, I felt better AT NIGHT then during the day last night! WOW! So excited, so hopeful.... Was even cleaning last night.... Now I'm wondering, what is y'all's opinion on the Ambien... hubbie's taking one a night... I'm taking two (10mg) throughout the night.... should we wein (ween) whatever... ourselves off or what? Hubbie's been on it 3 weeks, and I've been on it a month... pharmecutical papers say only take one to two weeks.... we're still not sleeping right, and sometimes the Ambien doesn't even help past the first one anyway... think I'm going to try to take just one tonight when I go to bed.... I know I'll wake up, but I'm going to try to go back to sleep with more.... maybe take one a night for 3 more days or so then go down to a half for three days or something.... what do y'all think? Or do you think we should just stop taking it in a couple days or so or wait til we feel 100 percent to stop?? Definitely don't want to get addicted to this shit.... Queenie you're a nurse so thought you might know more about it than me.... Merchant, how you doing? Funtimes, keeping busy? Thanks for the story Queenie.... we got crazy friends too... ready to get back to 'em also.... TTYL


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

it's funny how you mention being dysfunctional cause i've been so crazy lately that i haven't even written here. i really don't know where to begin....well i guess i have come to realize that i don't have good coping skills when it comes to being angery or dealing with being hurt. i'm a pretty hardend person and it takes alot to get to me but when it does happen i act out in the most unhealthy ways. i am so good at handling stress and life's ups and downs however when i fight w/the b/f i spiral out of control. i went out for a bday party and ended coming home to talk ....bad idea...i was drunk....then was so mad went out and got high which i don't even like it's f*cked up it is more like a self destruct mechanism or like a rebel thing like f*ck off i'll show you....yeah show you how weak i am??? i haven't even done anything in like forever either b/c i honestly don't have the desire and still don't it was likejust a behavior thing. so the next day i got in touch w/an old friend in na she knows me well enough not to be all fanatic like and were hooking up this week i'm not really worried about the fact i did it more like the fact i was on auto pilot for self destruction....i need to fix that. i was just always indifferent to my b/f or friends i didn't get upset over really anything...however i've never been in love til now i grew up in a very emotionless just gotta survive home so now i have two people in my life i love and when they hurt me or whatever i don

't possess the skills to deal w/in a healthy way. i mean on 1 hand i'm happy i feel so intensely ya know i'm not numb anymore but i'm disappointed that i'm so at a lost that i chose self destruction...i've also come to the conclusion that drinking although i don't do it often is a very convenient means to acting out when angry and i think being the impulsive person i am i may just wanna not do it,,,,i'm happy this has happened b/c i've got some self enlightenment out of it but at the same time i feel like i am well was not a part of the solution. i take everything so seriously and i rarely don't have an answer to problems but there really aren't any answers to being hurt or whatever just lessons on how do deal with it the most healthy way i can. it's funny though cause my b/f isn't an addict and i see the way he deals with it and he just like dives into his stubborness and gets apathetic but nothing self destructive...huh and he's just as intense as me but he's learned i guess over time how to deal w/this where as i never did well i never had to. well we talked so all is well now but i really really need to start building a support network so i'm prepared for the next time...which is hard b/c i don't want to go to meetings i don't like to socialize i don't know itlike has to be one on one so i think calling my friend was a good idea and i could build from there and she can help out we met when we were kids in the rooms she stayed i left but we always stayed in touch.it's even weird to talk about this like out loud it goes against all my wee fibers and it's not that life is bad it's not i just need to stay the course and well i jumped off for a night so i need to take it for what it's worth and stay focused...i just trying to keep it in the perspective of do i want to contribute or hinder my/our life? so if anybody has any idea on how to deal w/this sort of thing in a healthy fashion let me know. b/c i obviously can't.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

WOW girl... let it all out... it's always good to do that. I might be able to actually help you here -although I don't know if my and my husband have an actual normal relationship.... we met in May of 2002, and were married in November 2002 so we're coming up on our 7th anniversary.... and yes, we got married QUICK, but it was the BEST thing I've EVER done.... we're one of them couples that makes everyone sick... we hardly ever fight, and we're truly in love. And I'll tell you what KEEPS us this way.... COMMUNICATION. Let me just also tell you that even though I'm only 25 (26 in July), and my hubbie will be 30 in May... I had my first child when I was 17.... so I grew up QUICKLY. (Just some info - we both had a son when we met that are only 4 months apart so it was like twins!!! And in 03 we had a daughter together) Anyway, my son's father who died in a car wreck (rest his soul) in 07 - I don't want to speak ill of him, but it's just the truth - he was drunk and went around a curb at 103mph and flipped 6 times.... he was an alcoholic even though I didn't realize it back then, and he also MOVED to another state when he found out I was pregnant after being with me for a year and a half.... my husband's ex-wife actually packed up and moved to another state a couple of months before me and him met - the SAME state, same city how ironic is that.... ANYWAY, sorry, I keep getting off subject. The key, in my opinion, to a great relationship is to be able to tell each other ANYTHING - we are SO open and honest with each other, and I'm not in the dark here - we've only spent one night apart since we met, and we use to run our own business side by side day by day - we're always together, and don't get tired of each other.... point is though, if we do need some alone time, we can just say it.... if we're upset about something, we can and DO talk about it immediately.... without yelling, we discuss. I grew up in a VERY verbally abusive household... I, of course, was an out of control teen, could talk my parents into anything, but there was CONSTANT, CONSTANT yelling in my house. Yelling and no one listening. People tend to yell at each other at the same time.... trying to get THEIR point across instead of listening to the other side as well... not to get all retarded on ya, but Dr. Phil calls 'em "Right Fighters" Always gotta fight to be right. Well, no one's right all the time. If you start to yell or fight, seperate until you can talk rationally and calmly. If you truly LOVE each other, you can work through anything, and you have to accept each other's flaws.... I don't know exactly what y'all are fighting about, that's your business, but my guess is 9 times out of 10 in the scheme of things it's probably not even that important. You have to pick your fights with the boyfriend just like you do your child.... you can't argue over every little thing or you'll drive yourself crazy. Another thing is, I've noticed that some couples... especially the guy... will not open up because he knows how his girlfriend is going to react, and he doesn't want to deal with it. Key is to talk about this very thing... not react so strongly (don't even know if you're doing this, just saying) to something he comments on or wants to talk about.... even if it hurts, even if it upsets you, even if it pisses you off.... don't go psycho about it.... talk and work it out.... my hubbie could tell me he wants to have a threesome, and we would discuss it. I'd rather know why and deal with that then freak out on him, and him wish he'd never told me.... Some people aren't like me, some people would rather not know... that's not me. Be real, ya know? Really dig into what's triggering these fights.... are you actually fighting about some key issue constantly or are you fighting about stupid little shit a lot? Some people tend to pick fights if there's something bothering them, and the fights won't even be about that. They're just pissed off about something. Sounds like y'all had a heart to heart though already, and you should do that often. The way I see it, if I'm going to spend the rest of my life with this person, we better be able to tell each other anything... like if we're getting on each other's nerves... without either of us getting pissed off about it because it's going to happen.... Anyway, how to deal when you do get stressed without turning to drugs?? Sounds like you're on the right track.... take some time to yourself, call a friend, find something productive to do that you enjoy.... have sex.... punch a pillow.... you're talking to people who have been medicating themselves with drugs for years also.... hate to say, but if you really don't want to drink or smoke than sounds like you need to not associate with whoever you're doing it with. Sucks to do it alone. Are you doing it to get at your boyfriend?? I drank about 3 or 4 times a week for a year and a half then I smoked weed all day, every day for another year and a half while also drinking occasionally then met hubbie and got on pills for all these years.... and I'm not even that old.... and that lifestyle just sucks all the way around... Are you depressed often? Suboxone makes you numb... worse than other pills.... I also took depression medicine for years, and have battled with depression since I was young... cut my wrists and legs when I was 13... my brother is bipolar... my dad and his mother battle with depression... I was also raped shortly after I had my first son... I still had stitches down there, and that was the worst pain when that happened.... but I think I've let it all go.... life's gonna get ya down, and I guess everyone has a different way of dealing... you've just gotta learn not to turn to drugs or alcohol - that is the absolute WORST thing you can do, especially if you have children. I know I can't talk.... only been clean for three weeks, but I'm NOT going back.... EVER. And you do need support. I hope some of this helped.... I hope you can get off the subs for good because that would probably help A LOT. Your brain's just not right on it, and it never will be. Well, good luck, keep us posted.... you've got support here. Later girl.


queenie 7 years ago

wow now we are getn real...ok! Merchant, men and women do not think the same this has been proven scientifically. The sooner you can wrap your brain around that one the easier your love life will be. I dont want to sound bitter cause im not. I adore men and i have learned to appriciate our differences and embrace them. I dont claim to be a relationship connoiseur but lifes experiances have taught me that two halfs do not make a whole( forget what you learned in math). I suggest you work on your self and making yourself strong, independent and happy. im speaking from experiance. When you become psychologically and spiritually whole ( im not there but im alot more complete than i was at 23) and you share your life with someone else who is whole then your living. I think by you sharing and asking for help your on your way. It sounds as if you are trying to sabotage whatever you guys have going. Does this cat care if you drink and party cause i noticed you said he doesnt drink. When i got clean over 4 years ago i spent two years abstaining from relationships and it was the best thin g i could have done for myself. I know its not realistic to think others will but emotions can really do a number on us and learning to feel them and recognize them for what they are and not fly outta control is key. I dont remember your age but i know its young. This might be the guy for you and it might not. Life doesnt always unfold like we think it will . Infact, it almost never does and thats what makes it interesting. I hear you say your hard and i played that beat for a long time but i was hiding a very hurt little person whos spirit was broken early in life. i wonder if your doing the same? Subfreechickadee, congradulations and as far as the ambien goes if you want to be 100 percent clean stop taking it. Your brain will begin to produce meletonin along with serotonin once again to bring you to homeostasis. It will not happen while your manipulating it with ambien. The serotonin yes(energy and happiness) but the melotonin no(sleep). As long as your taking it you will need it. Since your feeling better now it wont be so bad to be awake alot and sleep when you can even if its 20 min in the day. I realize if you are working or have alot of responsibilities this isn't always feasible. But if i remember you have family helping. If thats the case and you want to be clean nows the time. Well my friends stay strong. Where are you guys ? im in Florida and im just curious.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Thanks for asking subfreechick....I'm doing well. I've been a little busy (usually working long hours, NA meetings, talking to friends in recovery, etc.), and I think I'm gonna be hurting tommorrow...i played 3rd base at the first practice for my NA softball leauge...and my fingers are a bit sore.

If you are in a relationship...it better be a healthy one...b/c a bad relationship early in recovery is a sure fire bet the pick up again. As i said before i have a special place in my heart for the ladies on this site...don't let some guy who is not fully invested in recovery drag you down with him.

I gotta fly...Ii just want to tell everyone that i am proud of you all...so please be proud of yourselves. I can't count the number of times i was in the middle of kicking that I wondered "what the hell am i doing..this sucks" and FORGOT THAT I WAS KICKING AND THAT I SHOULD BE PROUD OF MYSELF. dont make the same mistake i did.

Stay cool everyone. Take care everyone...I'll check in soon. I hope you all do the same. luv Gary

PS. Every once in a while life does put the right person in your life, just when you need them. When it happens, embrace it. you'll know when its real...you will feel it in your heart.


wronged 7 years ago

I've only commented on this site twice, but I am going into my 6th week of no suboxone. I still have headaches, but they are diminishing. I was on sub for a year and did not want to live on them the rest of my life, so decided at 4 mg. to stop. My story is like everyone else's. The first two to three weeks is the very worst! Then comes that corner you turn. But it is very slow. My depression and anxiety come and go in varying degrees. My weight still fluctuates daily, but I am starting to regain my weight, but it very slowly. My sleep is still not normal, but better overall. I'm just now able to clean my house and do the laundry (not in the same day, of course). I didn't know anything about PAWS, until reading it tonight, and I'm so glad I did. I have been experiencing short intervals of the beginning of w/d, and thought I was going crazy! That was very helpful. I have been taking it easy, though, for the last 6 weeks. Reading, doing research, watching the news; just being patient with myself. I am ready to start doing more. I got back on my treadmill, (something I love) but was shocked at my performance. I could only run very slowly for about 10 minutes before I became exhausted! That was disappointing, but I will try again tomorrow. The depression and lack of motivation is a huge factor that is sabotaging my efforts to start getting involved with the things I did before getting off sub. But, I am trying very hard not to give up on attempting to get active. It just takes so much mental energy to even get in my car and go anywhere. It's a good thing I can do my own hair, skin, and nails - right?! I did have to close my business, though. That was depressing enough! But, there was no way I could have stopped the suboxone, take care of myself, and run a business at the same time. So I decided it was more important to get off the sub, and then try the business again at a later date. Well, I've rambled enough. Thanks for listening/reading. Good luck to all out there for making such a tough decision!!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

hey thanks for all the feedback ladies...k well we are together all the time and we do talk about anything and everything i swear and you know me and how i feel about this sort of thing but if there are soulmates out there he's mine...we are unbelievably compatible and we are that couple that all the friends make fun of but we rarely fight and we can have and do have healthy arguements however on the rare occassion we have an all out fight we are both crazy stubborn and i being unstable right now ya know detox little support i know the right things to do but when i'm hurt i go a wall. i have never been intoxicated around my daughter nor has she ever felt the or seen my as a maniac...that is my grounding point actually...i miss cleaver and i am really hard core about protecting her b/c my upbringing was all violence and addiction so her life is all sunshine and rainbows. but the b/f and i don't yell really or cause scenes we go silent...i would rather yell and freak out i think it would at least serve as a release for me even though it isn't a good solution. but since we are so close and are like one when we fight and shit gets all shut down i don't know how to handle it i wanna talk but i get bitter that i'm chasing after him it's like i'm cool w/ a 24hr self reflection period...we both need that "head" time ya know but then i start getting all fucked up and like queenie was saying it is def. that little hurt girl thing...i'm aware actually my awareness and my inability of control pisses me off...i know better but i say fuck it so after a while i feel like self destructing...ya know the people that like self mutalate or whatever as an emotional release...i swear that's what it's exactly like. that's a new truth to me that i never realized about myself or maybe it's new altogether i don't know either way i've identified it and now i'm like what do i do to correct it. i wrote you guys for feedback and called a friend in na w/long term clean time and were going to start hanging out. it's just so fucked up b/c this is actually a really healthy relationship...he's great we're great but i'm like at a vulnerable point right now and i need to gain some perspective when i get all jammed up....he doesn't mind me drinking b/c i normally only do it like twice a month tops and i don't go overboard it's like down time w/friends or my brother...it's chill [except i'm thinking it's become a problem in the fact that i'm using it as a coping/vengence tool..which i never have before...unhealthy pattern ya know] he does however completely and totally hates and condemns dope. he doesn't even take asprin for headaches or bendryl for allergies...which he as hard core...the only thing he really has done was he used to smoke all the time then when we met i didn't so he just quit...he said he wanted to for a while and when he was younger tripped but nothing hard at all...so he is in the dark to this whole world ya know. the some what good news is we finally talked and worked through it...but now is the best time for me to start figuring out how to handle being hurt...it's weird...it takes so much to get close to me...i can be friends w/somebody for years and just walk away..i usually have relationships from an emotioanl distance...i've always been indifferent to the turmoil cause i never really felt connected to begin with....now man it's different i'm def. intune and emotionally enraptured...i've allowed myself to get involved...deeply...but it's new to me...i can't handle the hurt. i agree w/queenie about working on me...that is the answer for sure. i keep thinking once this detox is done i'll feel all that closer to being complete or at least feeling true to myself so how do i deal w/shit when i feel tainted...that's a problem...i'm so extreme. ya know i try to think of it as i want to be a positive contribution to our relationship i just don't know how to come to terms w/myself in this state...i know he's not going anywhere or anything....i just need to get my shit together.ya know what's funny everybody always talks about how well i'm doing how i'm such a good mom and girlfriend and sister and how nothing ever gets to me i'm like the person everybody goes to and i cant' go to them b/c they don't know what to do with me like this and it's not all the time i'm crazy it's when i'm feeling hurt...i look at the pattern we fall into when we do have like "big" fights...fight...words thrown around...silence..ignoring eachother...little spiteful acts ...we start to communicate/tolerate eachothers presence...then the heart to heart. it's in the middle i go loco like some kind of impending doom is going on....i feel bad rambling on about this cause i'm really just circling the problem,,i don't have healthy coping skills that's it plain and simple...solution...get support, get clean...stay focused on tapering...keep things/life in perspective...find positive outlet when i'm all fucked up...i've come so far i'm like almost done w/my degree, i'm going active next year...so that helps out w/money and we get to travel and rylie gets a good education i'm not doing bad at all i just need to stay the course and not sabatoge what i've worked so hard for b/c i'm not happy when i fight w/the b/f...that sounds about right. we even went to see lamb of god yesterday and it was like what we needed for like healing or whatever...i think we both missed eachother and needed to feel complete again and i have 2 fractured ribs and 4 bruised ribs and an ankle w/a contusion from st paddy's day but i wanted to be up close and he was all protective and i don't know it just felt so good and it made me think about how he's only human and if i keep putting him in compromising positions i can ruin this...and for what b/c i'm not able to handle myself. i think i should make a list of like what i feel when we are all fucked up and what my natural responses are and why bring them to pati [na friend] and go over them w/her to figure out alternatives...healthy ones. oh and thanks subfree...communication is key so once i start working on myself and could handle shit better i'll see what i could do as for now i can even approach him when he's mad cause he's not hearing it but your right and drugs and alcohol are not the answer and actually when i'm sober i don't fuck w/drugs and the alcohol use is minimal and def. with in reason...but when i'm angry they become more like weapons...if that makes sense...i believe ani defrance said in her one song "everything is weapon if you hold it right" that comes to mind...i need to figure out why when i'm hurting i feel this need to hurt back...i need to realize he's hurting too i just don't see it...i'm blinded by rage and sadness. i'm gonna just try to answer your questions b/c i really appreciate the time you took out for me..honestly...thanks...and i don't care what your clean time is it's your soul and experience that helps ya know.

well out fight wasn't about anything important...and ya know how i mentioned he really doesn't drink...every so often he will like once in a blue moon & really it's b/c he wants to be on the same page as me so if i dont' drink he's not gonna.....we rarely fight and we do have open communication he knows he can tell me anything and i'm really good about handling it...truly...it's just a stubborn/pride thing after the fight ya know...we don't fight about serious stuff that we talk about...it seems to happen when we drink together...i'm chill but he can't handle liquor and takes everything the wrong way and flips out...completely out of character behavior....we talked about it and he decided on his own that if he does drink [which prob. won't be til the summer] he's not touching liquor. we can drink like lager and be cool. but see the thing is drinking isn't that important to me...or him...we can have fun without it...we always do...so i think maybe we should just stay away from it...but i don't know if that's practical either b/c we really only do it once and a while and it's like fun to be sort of silly and hangout w/people we never really see [we don't party all the time at all and well all his friends do and i feel ba


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

i feel bad not chillin' w/them once in a while b/c that's not really fair to him] in so far as socializing...we really are just in our own little world and venture out once in a while...i only drink or get fucked up to get back at him when we fight...other than that no not all i just have like 2-3 drinks to chill w/friends or family once in a while...that's why my behavior is odd to me with going to alcohol to spite him...i've never done that before....i'm not really a depressed person normally...but your right about not being right on subs...i def. feel off and the fact that i'm not totally clean does really depress me...i know i'm almost there but i'm not me yet and i feel like it's not fair to me or him.i'm trying to taper the best i can and the slowest ever just so i don't set myself up and give my brain restoration time...it's never gone be fast enough i guess but i should be clean soon...this has been a minor set back so i'm gonna stabalize at my dose of .50mg for a week before i start to taper again...just to try to get right. this is not only the first time i'm in love but the first time i'm in a good/healthy relationship as well as getting clean while dealing w/all this it's overwhelming...i'm overwhelming myself! so i think w/this hub's support and my willingness i can do this...i found a 12 step book based on buddism which i can relate to the abstract spirituality in it...i'm gonna see about ordering it...i'm also gonna try not to drink...that's hard only b/c that's my social time....otherwise i'm sort of just w/him and my daughter...i'm not willing to do the full out meetings/recovery thing right now...however i have my na friend and i'm cool w/her and meeting new people that don't get fucked up and for now that's good...we already have plans.i need to get a job as well i've always been independent which right now i'm not and i'm looking into picking up hobbies that i used to have i love alone time and i need healthy outlets....so i think this all sounds like a good recipe i just need to do it...detoxing kills my motivation...i can't wait til i'm done...i swear it's like a xmas present to myself. thanks again!

oh and subfree when you had that cutting thing going on....what did you do to correct that...cause i really feel like that's sort of like the same thing right now. i don't feel numb though....i feel way too much...so intense...i'm not accustom to this.

oh and queenie your spot on....i'm def. like you in that respect i need to feel like i'm working on bettering myself. right now i think i'm having a hard time b/c i still have subs in my system i don't feel "pure". i know i'm working on getting off but it's hard to stay focused b/c i feel like i'm not where i want to be and i feel guilty b/c i'm not really giving myself completely to my relationship. my self esteem is low i'm not so much apathetic more guilty and like really really want to be me again. being that your like me with feeling complete and all how did you handle life and all it throws at you while getting off subs....it just seems like i've been w/out myself for so long. i mean i'm me...but not exactly. i know it could be alot worse shit my life is alot more manageable now then back in the day but it's not like when i had four years clean...i felt so alive and good...like i had something to offer the world.


foreverannie 7 years ago

I am going on 4 days without Subs, so I'm just beginning my journey and scared. But I'm determined to make it! Last night was rough. I barely slept, my legs were crawling everywhere. So I slept in the chair for an hour or two. I tried Requip for RLS, but didn't work, so I found myself in the bathtub at 3:00 A.M. I have been on Suboxone for almost 4 years. I am better today than last night. If I can keep saying that everyday, I'll make it

My hubby doesn't understand. He has never had any "bad" habits, so he thinks it's all in my head. I hope he understands eventually that I am overcoming the worst thing I can imagine.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Foreverannie.... GO GIRL GO GIRL GO.... don't give up!!! It's rough, it's tough, but it's worth it! I'm on day 24... if you can make it through about day 10 or so the worst will be over. Me and my husband both actually had a good day on day 5, 11 & 12 which is what I hear from most people... around about two weeks they have a pretty good day or two.... everyone's different, but if you can make it 2 weeks, the worst will be over!!! Maybe you should print out some opiate withdrawal info for your husband... you really need his support and help... I'm truly sorry to hear he isn't supporting you through this... it's DEFINITELY, ABSOLUTELY NOT in your head!!! Maybe print out some medical info for him... that might go over better. We feel your pain girl.... there's not many people that get off opiates.... I read online 90% of people that try to quit opiates relapse within the first few days because of the withdrawals.... so only 10% succeed... you are one of these 10% now, don't give up.... it's probably the worst thing you'll ever go through because of the length, but it's not as intense as other opiates in my opinion... you just have to really want it.... I really hope your husband gets on board... I know you probably don't feel like dealing with him right now or talking him into anything... surely he'll realize after a few days that it's not in your head, and you are in pain, and you need his support.... gotta go for now will write more later and write merchant and queenie back.... talk to y'all later...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Now that I think about it, maybe that is what you should tell your husband, that it is in your head... it's your brain.... and there are reasons for every single withdrawal symptom you have... mostly from your brain not producing serotonin correctly or at all because of the pills, among other things.... plenty of medical reasons.


Foreverannie 7 years ago

LOL, thanks for the support, but theres little I can say to change his mind and I don't have the strength to argue with him :0 I think your right about the 5th day. Tonight, I don't feel as bad. My legs are trying to act up, as if they are saying "haha, we may or may not get you in your sleep..you never know". I'll pray for the latter! I just wish I could believe it when he says it's in my mind, then maybe I can convince myself and get through this!

Fourth day and I did scrape up some energy to play with my 2 year old and do homework with my preteen. My husband and children seem like aliens to me right now. So hence I paint on my smile.......I do see the light. My personality that Suboxone took from me is creeping back in. I do wish my doctor warned me of this 4 years ago. Maybe someone will read our stories and learn. Lets see how everything changes in the next few weeks. Heck, I could wake up tommorrow a new person :)


Fun Times 7 years ago

Hey everyone. Foeverannie....i do wish the doctor warned me about suboxone almost 4 years ago. that's how long i was on the miracle drug too. that would have been cool of her. considerate. perhaps even diligent and proffessional. no dice. whatcha gonna do.

in your head after 4 years. please. and i mean please. i been off subs for over 100 days...all the days have good hours...many have some not so fun ones. there is a definate trend. i keep getting better. the good hours get longer. in the beginning i was praying for 15 good minutes every so often. i have to remember that. when i start getting a little upset that things aren't 1000% cool now...they were about 1000% uncool at first. time heals all wounds. that truth applies to us all. stay cool, stay honest, do the next right thing, and time will just keep passing...and soon you'll bre trying to remember the pain u feel now.

100 days just happened. and its no big deal. good or not...i forgot the pain. i have enough to deal with today. ladies...i'm proud of you all. Foreverannie...i just want to let you know that being a 4 year person like yourself...damn woman...you are really doing something fucking amazing. if someone hasn't done it...it is unimaginable. u can't make this shit up. hopefully your husband is gonna realize that you need all the support he can give u. good luck and God bless u all.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Thanks so much Fun times. It's real encouraging to see someone off for 100 days. Now you are strong enough to tell us how you did it. I have Darvocets, which I know is a weak drug, to help with my leg pain, but I'm afraid of a set back. I'm gonna do this.....

I've been up all night or most anyway for the past couple of days and I think I miss sleeping the most. I miss waking up to go to work (which many would be suprised what professional job I do part time) and if I don't go to work, I spend time with my children. I work tommorrow and dread going in like a zombie. I'm not sure how my bodies doing this, but I do know that it's trying to kick it for me. My body is on my side...I'm gonna do this...

For those of you are in the same situation I'm in or are thinking about quitting, this may help. Think of reasons why you want to quit subs. For me, it was easy, they changed who I was. Plus, I felt like a slimeball going into the clinic. I don't know about your experiences, but docs around here don't think highly of addicts. And remember, you don't really feel actual withdraws till u quit completely, no matter how much your taking. So prepare yourself. THis website has lifted my hopes.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Foreverannie...i'd love to give u my best opinion on this, but i need to know something first. I need a your best recollection of how you tapered. Were you on 1mg for a week...a month...did u go 8mg kamikaze style...how did u get to 4 days on zero? Please tell me asap..i'll wait and see if u respond before signing off.

I'm gonna say this about going back to work: I did a stupid kick and went in work off 8mg (one day at the end of week 2 i took 2mg) after taking off 2.5 weeks. i was fucking terrified. i slept 1 hour in 3 days before work. from 6 to 7am...the day of work. my anxiety level...the thought that i will walk in like a zombie and possibly hit the floor right there...had me up 3 days straight. at 6am i said (and really meant) fuck it...if i hit the floor..let it be. i thought all eyes would be on me. it was welcome back for 6 minutes and i slid back into my office thinking...i just might pull this off. and i did. been back to work ever since. fucking miracle. how many mgs are u coming off of...and for how long? (My philiosophy to everyone has always been...easy fucking does it...yeah i do swear a lot...sorry...but really...i'm all for everyone having the easiest kick possible...fuck that kamikaze shit...it hurts and it is STUPID). you sound smart.

As far as professional jobs...they're all here. Legal field. Medical Field. Financial Field. Very smart students. your in good hands.


foreverannie 7 years ago

I'm not sure. I had a few 8 mgs left and I chipped off a small piece for the past month. Maybe less than 1 mg? Heck, I might as well been taking 50-lol- know what I mean?


foreverannie 7 years ago

What is Kamakazi style? Not sure what you mean


Fun Times 7 years ago

yeahhh. i know. that last milligram is the bitch of the bunch. i remember the beatle's singing that 1 is the lonliest number that u'll ever see. i kept think...yeah...u sure...cause zero is seeming pretty fucking lonely now motherfuckers. God. LOL. now i'm getting crazy again.

i'll just give u my opinion. gained through experience. less than 1 mg...you're very smart. you'll be fine. trust me. i know. i did take some tylenol ac (like a shotglass a day...while it lasted...but i did have a full bottle)...and i think i got a nice placebo effect. after u get home from work lady...ur gonna be very proud. lady...your on your way home. would i take a darvocet before day 1. fuck yeah. then again...after being off subs for a couple weeks (8mg style) i said...this is really fucking dumb...then i took 2mg...quit a week...and took 1 mg for a week. i didn't give a shit about the illustrious being on zero prize. i was trying to be reasonable. i'm glad i did it..took the 2 then 1. if i felt i need 1 darvocet after 4 days...gulp...its' down the hatch. with ZERO remorse. but that's me. u may very well be stronger. best wishes annie! it's gonna be fine.


Tamika 7 years ago

I got dis ngaw that wont stop fuckn me! From the front from the back and im like damn ngaw get off me let me get a sub rite quick!


foreverannie 7 years ago

When did you start feeling better being totally clean from everything. Sorry about all the questions. I think I'm going through this obsessive faze. Heck, I have watched the same Nancy Grace episode three times tonight


Fun Times 7 years ago

okay. my asshole buddy had this burning desire to correct me. three dog night, he claims, sang that song. one of us is likely correct. i insisted to him that it was the fucking point...not the band that mattered. but there ya go. zero is a bitch. lol.


foreverannie 7 years ago

I was going to let you slide on that one because as far as I'm concerned, I could have made that song up myself during this crazy zero week!


Fun Times 7 years ago

fyi: i refer to kamikaze style as using subs for 4 years and going from 8mg to zero in one day...flushing your pills...and having some real fun. i am not a proponent of the kamikaze method. it hurts.

well...day 2 sucked. i remember that. in fairness...i didn't need that 2mg kickstart at day 7...whatever...8 to zero hurt. i mean i kicked like a fool and was feeling good enough to work in two weeks. i felt better after 1 week. days 2 thru 4 sucked. i think u have to gauge things on when u get a little sleep. thats when u really feel better (from being on zero). ur body will crash...let the anxiety go...and sleep. lord knows ur tired . DO NOT WORRY ABOUT WORK. please...that will work itself out. u'll see. if u make it to work tommorrow...you will fell ten times better. really. that first day back to work off zero is a fucking milestone. what a relief. when u come home...you'll be proud, the anxiety of "what will work be like" will be gone, you'll be so tired from working that u'll actually sleep...and my best bet is come Wednesday...you're gonna be telling us all: it was tuff...but not NEARLY as tuff as i imagined. tell me i'm lying. i did it. you're set Anne. and...as an added bonus...i'm going to say a prayer for u by name tonite. if you're not religious...no trouble...im doin it anyway. lol. i have some extra pull with God after getting past the 100 day mark. 1 of my prayers now is worth more than 17 years of my junky prayers comibined. i beat some strong recitivism odds. He likes me.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Thanks! I'm actually on Day 5...I was fixing my children breakfaast this morning. My husband looked at me and said "You don't even look sick"...Now do remember, he has never been close to an addict before, so I assume he was expecting the sweaty face, unkempt hair, and dirty clothes- but I was none of this. Remember yesterday, I told you I painted a smile. Despite my somewhat throbbing headache, I actually enjoyed my morning with the kids. Once again, I genuinely laughed with my daughter, something Suboxone took away from me (although then I may have chalked my grouchiness up to turning 30). After driniking fluids, my headche went away, which was great. Now let me tell you about my night. Last night, I didn't sweat, have chills for the first time. I did have the creepy crawlies, but only in my right leg- still enough to aggravate the heck out of me and remind me of why I was here. I couldn't fall asleep untill 2:30, which is better than NO Sleep the night before. I prayed, prayed, prayed for strength to heal both physically and mentally. MY body is going to battle for me- I can tell.

For those of you getting ready to kick the habit and believe that It may take several weeks and months, this may give you hope. I'm not going to say that I'm healed, because I'm not. But, everyday I'm getting stronger and the worst IS behind me. My mind is thinking more clearly than years. I am so thankful that I decided to kick the habit and for this site.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Good girl Annie. You're gonna feel like a million bucks after u get off work today. I am in possession of a theory, which I think is valid. And thus begins a rant. whatever.

i believe with all my heart that anyone playing around with a milligram or less should just quit already. it aint worth it. the anxiety of what zero will feel like is worse than what zero will feel like...from 1mg or less. plus you can say...okay...now i'm actually doing this shit. and just get on with it. if it contradicts anything i said before...i guess i am growing...hopefully.

Queenie...thanks for letting me rant on the phone. i had a joycean epiphany: i told her that i was kinda dragging a bit. she asked why. i told her after 100 days...i was kinda hoping to be cured of the bullshit (weakness, lack of motivation, common stuff). my best ideas always come to me after sleeping on something. i was thinking while driving to work: hmmmmn...what was i expecting. well...there was that Fun Times parade down Michigan Avenue that the mayor never arranged. probably busy. at least the endless line of playmates congratulating me and offering me a happy ending. at least that. they didn't get the memo. so...that said...i decided not to expect anything (things always work out best for me that way), and just keep living.

that wasnt too bad of a rant. at least it was broke up pragaraphically. i want to read some rants...but they are like a stream of conscioussness dictaion from a person a 'little wound up'. im not that smart. hard for me to follow. i keep thinking i should read them backwards and diagnally and look for the cypher. just kifdding. get it off your chest. take care everyone.


Fun Times 7 years ago

and if you cant do it 'pragaraphically' as advised above...paragraphically is cool too. ;)


Fun Times 7 years ago

and if you cant do it 'pragaraphically' as advised above...paragraphically is cool too. ;)


queenie 7 years ago

Hi guys, welcome Annie ,congrats on your progress! I think this is 2 months off subs for me. When i read these posts i find myself praising God for giving me strength. Annie my advise about the restless legs is still the same; run those little legs off and icy hot is very helpful. Im at work and one of my coworkers wants me to look up the jail web site and see if her man is there. lol! Later y'all


Fun Times 7 years ago

Queenie...i'm about to look up the jail website and see if you are there. lol!


foreverannie 7 years ago

Icy Hot- whoops forgot about that one. Much congrats on 2 months. I'm not sure about the excersise thing. Don't get me wrong, before I went off subs, I was in the gym everyday but for some reason I don't know if my body can handle it. I did work today and that was fun, fun. I was out of energy but felt at peace. Went to GNC and stocked up on all the weapons I need for tonights battle.....


foreverannie 7 years ago

Icy Hot- whoops forgot about that one. Much congrats on 2 months. I'm not sure about the excersise thing. Don't get me wrong, before I went off subs, I was in the gym everyday but for some reason I don't know if my body can handle it. I did work today and that was fun, fun. I was out of energy but felt at peace. Went to GNC and stocked up on all the weapons I need for tonights battle.....


RehabSuccess profile image

RehabSuccess 7 years ago from USA

Great Hub! very well written and informative. I read your profile and wish you all the very best in your fight recovering addict.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Good job Annie. really. congratulations. i didn't consider myself "well" until i was on zero and at work. So how was work...as bad as u thought...a little better...or a little worse? kinda glad u went?


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Hey guys... I got a confession to make... back when I wrote on day 22 talking about I thought I might be through it since I felt so good night 21... well, as soon as I wrote on day 22, it hit again... and last night was HORRIBLE... what the hell man... today is a little better... day 25... I was only on the shit 2 1/2 months... it's been a month of withdrawals almost... crap man... but I'm making it. Keep telling myself it's worth it, it's worth it.... I actually wrote something right after when Queenie said, "Well, we're getting real now", but I never posted it because I didn't finish... here it is....................... Sorry guys, did I get a little too real? I'm just being honest.... people have been through & do go through a LOT worse.... I know times are tough right now (ching ching $$ wise), but all this recovery and pain has got me to thinking about people less fortunate. People in more pain than this for their entire life.... I don't know if any of you listen to Kidd Kraddick (the radio show), (use to listen every morning on the way to the methadone clinic) & like I said, I know times are tough money wise, but if any of you do ever have cash to spare, he sponsors a thing called Kidd's Kids.... they take terminally ill children and their families to Disney World once a year. It's an awesome thing. It really changes these kid's life's.... I truly believe (also scentifically proven) even if you have a terminal illness, having a good outlook on iife can help your condition... help you live longer, everything. I heard this is especially true for cancer and MS.... Anyway, I just think it's a really awesome thing, all the money actually goes to what he says it's going to... he's a really awesome guy. I am so blessed to have healthy kids.... my daughter was born with several brain hemmorages... due to doctor's error... she had seizures and the whole nine yards when she a baby up until about 2 or so.... but she's FINE now... almost 6 years old, and she's extremely smart. It's actually a crazy story, anyone got time? LOL... y'all probably think I'm crazy telling y'all all this stuff.... I just realized how screwed up my life sounds.... or did sound.... no wonder I was on drugs.... LOL... just kidding. No excuse. Maybe I shouldn't have shared everything I did? I dunno, just trying to give my background.... recalling stuff I haven't thought about in years............... The end. Never finished. When our daughter was born, she was bruised from head to toe, the blood vessels in her eyes were all busted, and she was purple/blue. The imbilical cord was around her neck, every time I had a contraction her heart beat would go below 30, and the machines would go off. We were told ALL this was normal and ok.... should of had an immediate c section... doc finally came in at the last second and made me push when I was only dialated to an 8.... but anyway... we took her home, she slept constantly that day and night... we had to wake her up to feed her... I told my husband I thought something was wrong... we took her to our pediatrician the next day, they did tests... we got home, and the doctor had already called telling us to come back to the hospital immediately. She had jaundice (sp) so bad they tried to take her blood like 10 times while I was watching... they were having a hard time because her blood was so sticky... Doc said her heart couldn't have pumped that blood for another day... if we hadn't have brought her in, she would have died from that alone. After treating her for that, he runs tests, and we find out about the hemmorages. She was moved to a better hospital and was in the neonatal unit for 2 months. We were lucky to have a good doctor there, and we had to take her a lot to the Texas Children's Hopital in Houston (yeah, I'm from Texas Queenie) to a pediatric neurologist there who was bad ass. I went through this at 20, and I am just now realizing the gravity of it. I couldn't imagine my life without her. Man, I don't want y'all to think I'm crazy... I haven't talked to anyone about any of this shit or even thought about any of this stuff.... I guess rehabilitation's got me trippen... I don't think anyone here will judge though, huh? By the way Merchant... me and my husband do the EXACT same thing... we get mad at each other, and we don't speak to each other for a while... trying to make the other give in first... LOL... well, think I've said enough, later guys


foreverannie 7 years ago

Thanks for sharing Sub Free. What was so bad about your night and what did you do for it? Was you tempted?

I keep telling myself that no matter how bad we feel through W/D, there is a great, clear feeling to being clean. I can be myself clean and not be so paranoid as I do when I hide my condition. I guess that I didn't realize that being on Suboxone for 4 years really put the Addict Crown on my head more than my prior 2 years before that of pain pills. 22 days is amazing and your a trooper! I can't wait to write 22 days on here-

I think at this point someone would have to hold me down and forcefeed me Subs. I would definately put up a fight to the end. In other words. don't need, definately don't want that devil drug again.

Queen,

I just worked a half- day from 11:30 till almost 4. My hubby dropped me off and picked me up- I still felt a little weak, but believe it or not I have more energy than when I was on Subs. I support T's theory about just jumping off at 1. I have came to realize that 1 milligram was just enough to put my body in misery and in my mind that was normal to me. I kept telling myself that one milligram was saving my life, but really, it was just confusing my body. I am just relearning what normal is.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Foreverannie: It's actually day 25 now, but who's counting.... LOL... man, you are doing good girl... and sounds like you're determined... I totally agree with everything you said in your last post.... subs take the life out of you... me and my husband were alternating between taking 4mg & 6mg & only took 2mg for two days before jumping off so might be why we're so bad off.... it was bad for us when we got below 4mg... some people can taper without problems, some can't... I was having full blown withdrawals by the afternoon everyday we took only 4mg... then I read on suboxonetalkzone.com how to take it differently by breaking it up in my mouth and pushing it into my cheeks and stuff.... we were actually able to go down to 2mg by doing this, and it was lasting ALL DAY... but it actually made us feel "high", and we eventually went back up to 6mg throughout the day.... we were so sick of going back and forth... this other way obviously made us absorb WAY more of the subs, and that probably hurt us too even though we were able to go down to 2mg, and actually below at one point. Never went below 1 1/2 though... did anyone else take it like that?? If you read on suboxonetalkzone.com, he's a doctor & it's suppose to be better that way... I DUNNO... who cares anymore huh... ANNIE: How does it get bad at night? My neck/shoulders and/or legs start hurting really bad... my anxiety gets so high... I can't concentrate on watching tv or anything... I push through as long as I can then I go to bed... there is no miracle thing I do... but Queenie is right, I KNOW you don't feel like it, but walking DOES help with the anxiety... you have to MAKE yourself, but after you get going, it REALLY helps your legs... there are some days though when you can't walk, when your legs can hardly hold you up so I understand if you feel like that, we tried walking around WalMart one time when we felt like that, and I was literally about to fall out. But even we only felt like that for 2 or so days.... I recommend getting the hell out of the house when your anxiety gets really bad... can't believe you worked today... WOW.... I guess it does get your mind off it... I'm really impressed by all of y'all working.... we do stuff online to get by right now, but that's it.... couldn't imagine a standing job... whoa.... anyone watch American Idol????????? GO ADAM!!! I hope the fact that he's gay (have you seen the pics online?) doesn't keep him from winning.... what y'all think?


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Sorry y'all, don't mean to be taking over the page...LOL... but I forgot to answer Merchant about the cutting thing.... Um, I don't know if this is true for all girls, but it was for me... when I was a teenager, every little thing was the end of the world for me.... starting about when I was 13... being from Texas, my parents are kind of prejudice I AM NOT... but I started dating a guy named Carlos (take a hint), and I was sneaking out of the house at night to see him.... and I got found out (busted by our dog named "Buster" how ironic).... and he was 18, and my dad was a cop so they threatened to put him in jail... yada yada.... so I was at a suicidal time in my life... I carved his initials in my ankle which are still there... I didn't have the guts to cut my wrists enough to do real damage... I think I was just extremely depressed.... which like I said runs in my family... it really just got better with time until I got pregnant.... I've battled depression on and off.... sorry I don't have a true answer for why I stopped mutilating myself like that... it did feel good while I was doing it, which is screwed up, I know... but I couldn't even imagine doing it nowadays... like I said I think my problem was more being a crazy teenager, and there's another reason behind why I did it.... something that's carved on my other ankle, but I'm scared to say because it's horrible..... not even I can go there... LOL... I'm sorry I don't have any answers, I suck, I know... good luck dealing, you have a good head on your shoulders... you're on the right track... maybe talk to a professional if you're still struggling with why you do what you do or why you are how you are.... oh I forgot, you don't like that shit huh... don't blame you... now I'm rambling... bye y'all


foreverannie 7 years ago

Hey Sub Free Girl or anyone for that matter. How many days before your legs stopped hurting/ jittering. I'm going nuts right now and still don't think I'll sleep. Gotta work in the morning....

Also,

Subfree, you would have probably hurt less if you tapered down a little more, but there is no turning back. You are very brave for sticking to it. I tapered to one for awhile, but I have been on them for over 4 years.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

My legs still hurt, especially at night... my husband's hurt sometimes at night, but his stopped hurting daily around two weeks... he hasn't had the neck or shoulder pain like I have either... but his teeth hurt sometimes and mine don't... we stayed on the exact same track until day 13.... looking at my journal, the leg pain got better on day 10, and it has come and gone since then, getting worse for me at night come about 8pm.....


foreverannie 7 years ago

day 6

today was tough i guess, very tired, even though i may have squeezed in 4-5 hours of sleep. I took Melontonin last night along with Sleep MD and kept a heating pad nearby for my legs, which were aggravating. I'm not sure if the Sleep stuff made me drowsy today, but I just didn't know if I could make it through the 4 hour half-day I had. My legs were tingly and like spaghetti. My career requires a strong, clear mind at all times. Noone knows my "secret" of course- I'd lose my job. But I Made it and I'm still clean!!!!

I still have no cravings for Sub or anything else really. These are the things I'm looking forward to over the next couple of weeks

1. smiling and not feeling guilty

2. being able to get off the couch without thinking about my legs

3. returning to the gym- believe it or not, I'm losing more weight right now NOT going to the gym. Don't want to lose much more

4. Cleaning my house

5. Waking up in the morning with a headache and NOT raiding my medicine cabinet.

I am getting along better with my hubby. Sub kept me on edge. Looking forward to staying clean. I went to the pharmacy yet again and bought Legatrim PM for leg pain and sleep (11.99) and Icy Hot (thanks to Queenie) will let you know how it goes....I will get through


Fun Times 7 years ago

im probably not going to be taking up space on this post anymore (possibly say hi)...i've been off subs awhile...it's probably time to cut the cord, so i wanted to say a couple things.

thanks everyone for your help. this site meant an awful lot to me...even after kicking 70 days. you folks helped me out alot. you guys on this site, along with friends, family, (even co-workers) and other recovering addicts helped me get my life back. and i haven't really had it for over 20 years. so thank you to all of you who helped me through this. this site meant alot to me...and you people are this site. Thank you Recovering Addict for setting up this forum. I honestly believe that through this format and your initaive that lives will be saved. That's something i hope you are very, very proud of.

Merchantofdeath. you are a fascinating person. i don't mind be called a bigot or being told i act in an unattractive way...not in the least. i've been called things way worse than that and i don't care to defend myself. my two best friends are atheist/agnostics (leaning atheist). atheist i have found are unusually smart people...many are gifted...as i believe you are.

my arguments to you in retrospect regarding the fact that you can't prove God doesn't exist were reductio ad absurdum at best, and simply intellectually dishonest at worst. let's face it...i cannot prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist. its fairly common knowledge that its impossible to prove anything doesn't exist...outside the bounds of a confined structure of rules...such as pehaps geography or mathematics. and even that's tricky. you get my point. my argument was ridiculous.

i do want to say you are one of the smartest people i have had a dialouge with. i don't measure intelligence by memory of facts. im not great at trivial pursuit. i don't care about trivial things. u question everything. you have a wonderful imagination. and u made me want to read fightclub. you're boundless enthusiasm for deciphering the meaning of existence on what i consider to be a very sophisticated plane is incredibly admirable to me. at your age...if you stay off drugs...the world better watch out. you are gifted. more so than the atorneys i work with. much more.

K and Dustybug...you are both extremely bright. u both have a violent (which i consider to be wonderful) and intense 'problem' with settling down in the sense that odinary people do, you are displaying the same fantastic 'questioning' of the meaning of existence as merchantofdeath. that is extremely commendable. life defined as a 9 to 5 and a happy marriage is an extremely shallow view of existence. if not shallow...it's extremely common. very univentive bordering on inspired. it should be unsatisfying. u ladies ae right. i applaude you both, and i hope that you both find that intangible 'something else' that is satisfying to an inquiring mind. please post it if you do. i don't need to post...but i will be looking at what u guys are up to. you both will be dangerous as well when unshackled by withdrawals and your intellect can run wild and do wonderful things.

all 3 of you ladies. u are young. u are intellectually sharp. that's not exremely uncommon. but u are also questioning the very meaning of life itself...which is the singular question of the highest order (that is extremely uncommon)...u are unsatisfied with the status quo....and you are hungry for answers. that dynamic got me involved with narcotics. u have your youth. as i've said...u have the world. i'd love to be in my mid twenties without being numbed by drugs...so i could actually do something important. i'll try at 39. i still have the adenaline...but much, much more responsibility that i had at 24. as Tyler Derton said in fight club, (close paraphrase)..."it is time to let go...of everything. the things you own, end up owning you". be as unattached as possible. and dream big. be unafraid. the kick really is just a bit unpleasant. you've all tapered so well. call it a day with the subs...suffer a bit (u'll forget the pain sooner than you will ever imagine), and go do some damage ladies.

i'm not the authority on anything. but i have met and dealt with all types of intellectuals, some leaders of industry, college and law proffessors...and attorneys ranging from common real estate attorneys to chief counsels of billion dollar conglomerates. and i'll tell you what my boss told me one day. he said "I don't know if you are aware of this, but I (he) have dealt with common attorneys to fortune 500 businessmen...and one day you(me) will realize tha you are just smarter than them'. one day it happened. i realized. one day you three will realize that people just ae not as smart as you. and when you do...if you are off drugs...you will have some Fun Times for real.

everyone else...thanks for all your help. especially Queenie. you lady REALLY helped me. more than almost anyone i know. friends and family helped...but in a different way. i couldn't talk to them and expect them to empathise with kicking dope. you brightened quite a few of my days, from post comments to conversations. thanks again. i just wanted to thank everyone and specifically give three young ladies justified encouragement, because i wrongly "put them dow before". i hope i've made a reasonable amends. i meant every word and it all came from my mind and from the heart.

best wishes gang.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

http://www.medcalc.com/narcotics.html

this is a conversion chart for dosages....i find it easier when i convert my dose of bup. [subs] into methadone. even though they're different...they have alot in common in regards to detox.

http://suboxonetalkzone.com/?tag=tapering-suboxone

that is a website regarding the potency of subs....no joke...jumping off at 2mg or 8mg...no difference...subs has a ceiling effect...i've known this and tried finding the best site for you guys....going down to even .25mg still isn't enough to deter w/d's. there is alot going on w/ your biochem. then you realize and when you jump off so fast your setting yourself up for a long hard detox plus it'll take forever for restoration...either way do what you want so long as you stay clean i'm just trying not to mess myself up more than necassary.For all those still detoxing i recommend even surfing around the sites maybe you can find not only hope but maybe some tips.

i would also recommend looking up PAWS b/c that is a huge problem w/people who jump off at 2mg +. I recommend eating right & exersize...but hey easier said than done right? that song...time is on my side sort of thing comes to mind.

oh subfree...thanks for replying...all is well actually...i've done some research as well as started to build a support network w/people i trust. it's like an impulsive/anger thing...i've learned how to handle alot but when things are new my first instinct is that so it's sort of like a self evolution thing i'm gonna have to keep in check and i'm trying to figure out some main triggers and my natural responses then some positive intervention [that i can do]....thanks though it's been a while since i acted out/got f*cked up and it def. through me i appreciate all the time you took out.

those who don't know: the technique that records the multifarious thoughts and feelings of a character without regard to logical argument or narrative sequence. The writer attempts by the stream of consciousness to reflect all the forces, external and internal, influencing the psychology of a character at a single moment.

yep...def. what i do.....good self reflection tool...the logic is usual found inside the madness....creativity & open-mindness are a prerequisite to reading.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.25mg day 2 [no idea what day i'm on altogether]

well no fun...but whatever i'm gonna stay at .25 til i feel stable then i'm gonna cut that in half.....whatever wee amount that'll be...i'm hoping i get throught the night w/out taking more...but who knows...right now i'm really light headed allergy thing and some chills not so bad though...more blah really...but i kinda screwed up my taper schedule the other day so i expected to feel this way...i was cool on .75-.50 but that's where i left off....25 is a new adjustment so i'm just gonna truck on hopefully it'll pan out soon....i was gonna just start skipping days once i got down to this amount but i think i'm gonna just keep weening myself down until it's just to the point of being an unreasonably small amount.

next week come hell or high water i'm gonna start up at the gym b/c i know that will make a world of difference. the depression sucks but i know it's like superficial so it's all good and exersize helps everything...isn't it funny though how your so damn weak and yet the one big help requires you to move....sick sick joke iswhat it is!!! well i'm gonna go and try to catch some sleep while i feel it coming over me....good night to all!


foreverannie 7 years ago

Fun Times:

Good Luck to you,you may not realizethat you really helped me a couple of days ago. It was nice to have someone that understands what I was going through. You are truly gifted in helping others and I really hope you at least check in daily :0

Great Merchant OD that you are exercising. I have saying that all week. Day 6 off of everything was tough - much worse than Day 5 and I have been telling myself that I must take back control of my life or this is going to be a bad week.

Just remember, based on my experience, don't be suprised by the crappiness you fell after Day 2 of quitting everything. I was down to your dose and it just hit me like a brick. You have to really have do mind control. I wish you the best. BTW,, do you have any children Merchant? I have 2 and it's been really tough taking care of my kids, working and getting through this. I firmly believe keeping yourself busy does help.

Also, I wrote earlier that I would update you guys on the OTC stuff from the pharmacy I bought to help with W/D.

Legatrim PM is great (11.99 at CVS). It actually has helped with my leg cramping/ RLS.

I'm also taking Vitamin Supplements, Amino Acid, and Melantonin to sleep. Pray that all goes well for me tonigt...


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

ya i'm gonna go down to aprx. .12mg once i'm stable on .25mg then i'll start skipping days. i don't feel 100% but i'm not dying and i'm sort of happy i'm not feeling well b/c that's telling me my natural neurotransmitters will be kicking in to replace what i've been taking away...if i didn't feel anything i think i would be a wee bit worried. i just try using whatever source of inspiration i can find ya know. i think keeping my head in the right place is key b/c i know it will get to the point of intolerance and that's when i'll need the inner strength...but for now i'm still a guinea pig scoping out how low i can go before jumping off.

dude for sleep...benadryl all the way...most of the time your paying crazy cash for a bunch of bs when you can skip it and just take the main ingredient....i don't know about legatrim pm though...i have never scoped it out so hey if it works awesome but pop benadryl if ya need some sleep just don't exceed 50mg or it's counter productive.

and ya i have one daughter...shared custody..well i'm primary but it's shared...and we're okay...i'm focused on her education right now so she's pretty occupied with that...and leap frog rocks! plus i have a great b/f that supports me and is tight w/her so things run really smooth here. i wake up w/him...normally...eat do like me time then she wakes up eats we watch tv eat clean or bum around...depends on what is going on w/me...eat lunch then b/f home from work he makes dinner we all chill out play/watch movies then she goes in her room and gets her hanging out w/myself down time and me and him get our time....it's nice and i get a break all weekend long so i'm lucky in that respect...plus detox is more annoying than anything....i'm not really losing sleep or aching...just mild cold stuff...i've been tapering pretty slow so i think that's making a difference. but like everybody else i've had my ups and downs...can't wait til this burden is unloaded!

i don't work right now....i'm off from school and army so i have the best time ever to get this done...i'll be looking for a job in a few weeks...money sucks! but i sort of need this time out to get my head together...i have a lot of responsibility and commitments to fulfill in the near future so i want to be in prime condition.i'm used to juggling alot and it's really out of my element to be sitting idle like this.

everything in me wants to just quit, deal, dope myself up and all that but i'm staying the course and doing it right this time. subs are very strong...i think most people under estimate their effect on your body and i don't want to f*ck my shit up worse. personally i don't know why they don't use short acting opiates for addiction maintance but whatever....i'm not in the mood to fight city hall. i think most decisions are made w/poor intentions. do you know they have a patch to help you come off subs in the uk...not available in the us? i believe i posted a link to some info. i'm knocking subs but really any consitant opiate flow in the body could and would help a willing addict...i guess tolerance would be a problem...but their is....i'm gonna stop i'm going off on a tangent. but hey all is well w/merchant [speaking in the 3rd person...bendryl kicking in i think] and i hope all my other sickies are okay too...damn siren call of opiates!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

haaaaa-chew!!! haaaaaaaa-chew!!!


foreverannie 7 years ago

Day 7- 1 week clean!!!!

OK, last night was rough. The Legatrin worked for a couple of hours, then my legs were spastic all night. I went to work again for 1/2 day 8:00 till 12:30. I felt much better this morning. I came home, took a nap and woke up with a classic headache, not the foggy doped up headache like the Subs gave me- jumped in the bath and now for the 1st time in a week, I'm doubting my choice to quit.

I'm not turning back to Subs, no way, but just wishing I didn't feel bad. See, when you spend over 5 years on some type of pain pill, you cab forget what its like to be in real pain. I pray tonight is better!

Merchant, your doing great. Do you have support when you do take your last Sub?


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well to update on progress i woke up at 530am and felt like my heart was tearing it's way through my chest so i made the decision to take my .25mg for the day. i usually try holding off but whatever....i'm takining it slow either way....if i feel all out of whack later on before bed i'll take .12mg to coast through the night...eventually i'll adjust to the .25mg...but it's almost 12hours later and i feel better than yesterday when it was about the same hours later since my .25mg dose so my body must be compensating.

i pretty much laid around all bummed out yesterday...mentally struggle to stay on course....but today i went out...well i had an appt. and i feel like cleaning so something must be going okay.

i talked to my NA buddy and she and i are gonna hang out next week when i'm down to .12mg and especially when i start skipping days. my cousin also works w/preg. woman on methadone in a half way house and she's sending me info on tapering off long term opiates...i can always use more info. and my "taper sponsor" guy from the other site i go to has me checking in everyday to evaluate my body's responses to change in sub mg. so far he said i'm at the norm. but to take it slow it's worth it.

so overall i guess i'm doing okay i'm just getting nervous b/c i'm so close...but i really do believe i'm doing this the right way...or the best way for me and i have faith in my instincts...i know i won't feel great or anything but i think it will be less than what it could have been.

are you guys all at work??? i know i usually have a bunch of posts at once but where is everybody? hmmmmm....i should probably apologize in advance b/c i think my rants will only worsen as i come down...but once i'm good it'll balance out. wow the lower i go the more sensitive i become...so strange...i'm not usually this way...oh and i get a vistor this weekend hooray...i'm quite the hermit...but my cousin is coming in for an overnight visit! it'll be my 2nd day at 12mg so that's ideal...keep my mind busy. k i'm sure i'll be back!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

HOORAY!!!! life is out there! yes foreverannie i have some...i'm working on that. my b/f will help w/my basic needs but can't really grasp where i'm at b/c he's not an addict...my cousin and NA friend as i've mentioned. i have a horrific case of being a hermit and usually go it alone..this web site has been my venting spot...obviously...when i do come off i may attend meetings to just fill the time....other than that no family or anything of that sort...most of my friends are deliquents so that's a no go...umm but i think i'll be okay w/what i got.

it's funny how my body is like messed up in waves when i taper the first two days are not really fun but then they even out and by like day 4 or 5 i drop again but it's not intolerable at all...well yet. plus i'll be skipping days until i hit a stable point like once every 4 days @ .12mg then i'll jump off. i really want my body to heal as i go...i don't mind some w/d or whatever as i go i just don't want anymore damage done.

so i've been pretty much eating and sleeping well overall...some minor stuff that i've mentioned but my "schedule sponsor" guy is really spot on and everybody is an individual w/individual needs so i'm well we are tailoring this entire tapering not so much around time more so around how i react to change and how well i adjust.so it's been helping me predict what days are going to be rough and i have this hub 24/7 to vent...it all helps...it really does. everybody's been awesome...

how are you dealing? i hope you feel better soon. what was your taper plan like?


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Update: Night 25 was pretty good... day 26 was pretty good... night 25 and 26 hubbie had fever... yep, we both got a cold from the kids... sore throat, fever, runny nose, the whole nine yards. Day 27 off subs today... despite being sick for 2 days, I feel ok. Legs haven't really hurt since day 25... neck and shoulder pain is minimal and so is anxiety. TOMORROW IS ONE MONTH! WOOO HOOO! Foreverannie: Day 6,7,8, and 9 were the worst for me and my husband so hang in there!!! Try not to worry what tomorrow brings. You've had a great attitude so far.... Merchant too... y'all are doing great. I just wanted to say a couple things, and then I'm going to stick to sub talk from now on unless someone else says something... I guess no one watches American Idol or y'all aren't reading my posts, LOL... not a problem. Also I agree and disagree with Fun Times, and I had to say something because I do strongly believe in God. There is archeological evidence that the Bible is real. And some of the smartest people in the world are atheists, but on the other hand some of the smartest people in the world are the most religious. There are different types of intelligent people.... 90 something % of top field scientists are atheists, and we'll all agree that they're some of the smartest. I can't even pronounce some of their job titles. Then again, look at Einstein - he was married to his cousin, but damn did he have a brillant mind. Something I studied in college was "savants" - extremely brillant at some things and lacking greatly in others. I'm talking about I saw a guy that could quote you the temperature and weather forecast for any day, from any year - going back since he was born. You could ask him the square root of an incredibily complicated number, and he could tell you in 5 seconds.... but he couldn't tie his shoes. He could also pick up just about any instrument and just start playing it. Some kids with autism can do that too. Point is, intelligence comes in all shapes and sizes.... try not to judge it on religion. Not knocking anyone's religion or lack of or whatever... just saying. Anyway, sub talk from now on. Good luck making it through the day Merchant and Annie...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Hey Merchant... your posts popped up after I just wrote.... damn you're doing so much better than me or my husband could... if you can really, truly get down to taking something every 4 days then from what I've heard, you really will probably have mininum withdrawals... we just couldn't do it... I, personally, was suffering so badly starting like 5 hours after I would take the suboxone when I got down below 4... we just went back and forth so much, going up and down, couldn't take it any more, that's why we jumped off. I had a lot of sub left too... you're doing AMAZING.... I think you're right on about everything... the tapering and not going by a real time table, just listening to your body instead... that's what you gotta do... that's what everyone successful tapering says... you're doing everything perfect. Also, yes... I was extremely emotional during the withdrawals - as you can tell I went a little crazy telling everyone on here my business.... too much info, I know, but I couldn't help it, it just all came out, and it did help. I really wish you luck with your taper... you're already extremely low - definitely be proud of yourself!!!!! Both you and Annie!!!! Hang in there guys!!! I'm feeling 1,000% better than I ever did on suboxone!!!!!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

thanks....it's hard to be patient but i think it's worth it...i'm happy your feeling better and don't worry about spilling it all dude we all need to just put it out there from time to time...i'm looking forward to when i'm finally off it but at least i'm able to do my dishes...that's kinda cool.

i do have a question though...what is with all the formal good byes??? hey i say screw all that and pop in time to time to say hello...or instead of goodbye what about adieu? i like that better goodbye is so concrete...plus i'll b here for a wee bit yet and would like to hear from all the cats that i started with so ya im protesting this goodbye thing....i say no....no goodbye...just adieu! :)


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Also I'm pretty sure Einstien's parents were cousins (I could be wrong, but I think I heard that on the History channel LOL)... gross huh. Annie: it's normal to feel the way you're feeling.... me and hubbie felt the same way... didn't want subs, but was regretting getting off because of the withdrawals symptoms... it came and went (feeling like that) so it's ok.... it will get better soon girl... going down to 1/2 an Ambien tonight guys..... gotta get off em, it's time... been a month now... wish me good luck. From 2 throughout the night to a 1/2.... damn


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

no not insofar as i know his parents were not related nor was he to at least his first wife but later i think he did get w/his second cousin but ill have double check that ...however that was quite common then even my buddy poe married his 14 yr old cousin....ummm adam and eve had cane able and seth...so did they sleep w/eve? lol just curious since insest is on the table...


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

oh and if you have a hard time sleeping turkey warm milk and benadryl....good times they do help


Fun Times 7 years ago

subfreechickadee...i believe in God too. I was making amends for past indescretions toward atheits on this site. I'll break my silence for God. LOL!

PS. Foreverannie- the fucking weekend is coming up lady. hang in there. ok-it's thursday...1 day left lady. uyou know you got one day in you. what the hell...you're all ready back at work. i'm gonna promise u something...in no time your going to look back and think "what horrible week...did i even have one"? ;) c'mon lady...you have a singular purpose...you know that. de driven. all will be well.

PSS. if u wanna skip the turkey (good for sleeping...no doubt) and get straight to the source...i have heard they are selling straight tryptophan at health stores or online. natures knockout drug of choice.


Fun Times 7 years ago

and Foreverannie...if you can't de driven...be driven. listen. i have been on the bullshit for 4 years too. i cannot emphasize enough that it kinda sucked in the beginning...but i was prepared for way worse. and weeks later...it really is like "big deal...that was easy".

that is one major reason the recisitivism rate with heroin addicts is so high. they forget how miserable it is to kick...even after kicking. just go on misery cruise control for another day or two. your life is worth a day or two...isn't it?


foreverannie 7 years ago

FUN TIMES, your back! I've missed reading your posts. Thanks for the encouragement. My husband is an engineer and getting ready to be called out for at least 24 hours. I so dread being responsible transporting my kids (12 and 2 year old) back and forth to school, sitter, then I have work tommorrow (half day again, although that will change to full day next week). Dreading taking care of my own kids- I feel pathetic for writing that.

Anyway, what do you guys know about Amino Acids, when and how much should you take and how do they help? I went and bought a big bottle of the liquid stuff and it is so GROSS. My husband said it might make me gain a few pounds, but for the 1st time, I don't care!

Sub Free, so I may have to weight for a couple of more weeks for my legs to stop- that sucks! Thanks for your informative posts. It's always great to hear from someone that went through the same thing I am going through now.

Merchant, I understand about your guy not understanding. My husband is the same way- never had an addiction (he keeps askinng me is I'm sure I don't have the flu-lol)and I have kept everything a secret from 95 % of the world. You guys, my hubby, my doctor, counselor, and 1 other friend (who is also addicted to Subs) are the other 5%

Geez, we will all get through it :0

Where's Queenie


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Ah, religion... the cause of so many wars.... I stand corrected about Einstien... I agree, it was atleast his second wife or whatever they were & that was common then... it was someone in his family, I remember something shocking that I didn't know before, and I thought it was related to cousins and someone close to him (besides him and his cousin)... give me a break, pills screw with your memory... LOL... and it is true that there's only like a 2% increase in birth defects when even 1st cousins mate... sorry, I'm not judging anyone, especially Einstien, but I personally, couldn't do it.... that's why I said gross... because it is to me, but that's me... the Bible doesn't talk much about women, but Cain did have a wife from Nod, outside of Eden.... who knows who she was, but I don't believe it was Eve... people lived a long time back then, it's obviously leaving out something because it says should anyone find Cain, they should not kill him so there was obviously enough people around... Adam lived 930 years I believe.... we could argue about this all day.... I'm sure there's insest back in my family somewhere... I'm not judging... just stating my opinion... I do believe that most religions are wrong in what they believe, and I do not believe in going to church & having someone tell you what to believe.... you should read the Bible yourself & interpret it in your own way... I don't believe in anyone pushing their beliefs on anyone else so I'm not trying to do that. Just a little healthy debate. Yeah, I know turkey's got an amino acid in it that's suppose to help sleep - they say that's why you get sleepy after Thanksgiving dinner... Thanks for the advice


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Damn why does my shit keep doing that? I refresh, and there's a shit load of posts that wasn't there when I started to post.... yeah, L- tryptophan, that's it.... Annie, I don't know if your legs will hurt that long, I pray not.... I just gotta be honest. My husband has been doing a lot better than me in the pain department so just stick with it... you never know. This is what all we've been taking daily since day 1... a soft gel multi-vitamin, B-12, Fish Oil, L-Methionine with B-6, L-Glutamine, and 5-HTP.... and that liquid stuff is unbearable for me too.... I have three children of my own, don't feel bad about saying you don't feel like caring for them, I know you wish you could, and I guess you have to if you're not going to have help, but me & hubbie have felt the same way - there's just some things you can't do or definitely don't feel like doing... you're very vulnerable right now... hang in there... day 11 and 12 were really good for us so look forward to that because most people do mention a significant difference around that time... Fun Times is right... the weekend is almost here, you're doing great.... the worst, worst is almost over I believe... just remember, you're coming off way less than I did, right?


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Caffeine is shown to help opiate withdrawals in mice... but I wouldn't recommend taking it until you're through the worst... some people tend to feel like they're on LOTS of caffeine while going through withdrawals.... so I guess it's not for everyone. We take some every fews days, and it seems to help... but we didn't start that til after two weeks.... just a thought....


foreverannie 7 years ago

Can't imagine caffeine at this time- lol. Have you or anyone else heard of anything over the counter that specifically is made for withdrawals?

Ok, I'm doing fine tonight so far, DAY 7, and I'll share why. I was laying around on my couch tonight. My husband was dozing in the chair waiting to get called out. I decided to take Queenies advice and workout. Didn't feel like the gym, so I just turned on Video on Demand and did the 10 min workout. It was free and my husband joined me. We actually had a couple of laughs trying to keep up with the instructor, but for a moment I felt normal....

Just wanted to share because if any detoxers are sitting on the couch and you have cable, give it a try....


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

annie i am happy you had a real moment with your man and yourself they are priceless right now...keep up the good work! i have my ups and downs but luckily i've been pretty okay...and i love when i'm on an up and up and i can give myself to him 100% instead of like i'm sick...blah...let me try to be me...plus he knows and it's like he as well as your husband suffer too they miss us and it's a really cool thing when you can just chill and be you...i'm seriously very happy for you...it sounds like your day was hectic and all over and now what a happy ending...[no pun intended]..lol

subfree...i'm a ball buster...it's cool dude state whatever all day and no worries about the memory i'm spent too.

as for amino acids....well..since it has been asked i'll hook you guys w/some information tomorrow...i just took a benadryl and want to go watch evil dead...for the 100th time in my life...but a quick fact LCN i believe is being used experimentally for endorphin and norep. restoration in patients w/MS. i have a pretty lot of data on this topic and there are a few things you can buy at a local vitamin store...i'll get the names for you later on. here's a website that you can read then maybe hit your dr. up but i am warning you that if you take any monoamine oxidase inhibitors you really need to be carefully what else you take...even over the counter they are no joke.i really don't know all the otc stuff only biochem end but i'll be happy to supply you w/them and you can see if there are products available for restoration.

https://www.neurorelief.com/index.php?option=com_c...

there are also a vat of diet alterations you can make....cayenne pepper added to your food is one that helps stimulate opiod receptors and exersizing is a perpetually useful tool to combat w/d it sucks i know i'm a slacker that knows better and yet i often chose to suffer. also you want excitatory amino acids like glutamate...as a matter of fact that particular a.a. is key in opiate w/d there are also enzymes you can take one i believe is tyosine or something to that effect....i'll get all this together tomorrow for ya but scope this little bit out for now...the chaotic abstract it is...oh and don't pay for nrt or anything just use the information to sort of crash course it and then bring it up to your own dr......much cheaper...i don't really endorse any of this though...el natural for me...hence the slow taper...but hey i'll get the info to ya...i love doing that sort of thing...it's right up my alley...oh sex & chocolate also stimulate endo. and nore. .....happy times there...caffiene def. helps w/pain but....anxiety is alright there so becareful on that one gauge where your at....i stay away....well except in chocolate...mint is good for your stomach..take bicarb soda and a mint an hour before you eat...

seriously...i actually would suggest tapering slower truth be told your body obviously is crying out for a reason...you should not feel so bad...i'm on day 3 .25mg and i'm pretty chill...not so tired but i know i'll get like 6hours in...eventually...but i know everybody is like you've come this far but everybody seems to be suffering tremendously...hey i'm here for whoever and whichever method they chose...i'm just saying listen to what your bodies telling you...but it requires a lot of self discipline either way but before anybody starts pumping there bodies up w/synthetic stuff...just ask yourself are you aligned? i know everybody wants to be off it right now...hell i do i can't wait...but apart of recovery is changing the behaviors that got us into this mess right? i just feel so bad for everybody suffering when it's not necassary that's all and i wish i could just wave a wand...man if your hurting really bad taper slower there is no harm in that your pride and anticipation will be okay...at least they're my demons....as a foot note this is not directed at anybody just in general....anybody popping in here reading or whatever...your not gonna be in heaven or whatever but you don't have to be in hell.[and everybody knows i'm figuratively speaking.... :)]


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

hey does anybody else ever get giddy before w/d kick in like some silly limbo thing?....


foreverannie 7 years ago

Merchant,

Thank you, thank you for the advice! I can't wait to look through all of the websites you posted. Such will also be useful for others going through this.

I did taper to very little for a long time (few months) before deciding to go cold turkey. At this point, my mind is telling me that if I take a small amount of sub, then I'll just b sitting myself back. Plus I'd have to get it off someone, which I don't want to revert to that habit. I'm going to have to deal with it eventually anyway :).

Day 8: Last night was a little rough, but I got almost 7 hours of sleep and my bodies loving it. Everyday, I'm getting more and more morning-sleep. Last night was a little rough with my legs and arms. At times, I just wanted to break, but I feel decent this morning. My Husband is working in another state and won't be home for another day- so I'm a little paranoid about that because he helps me get through the day- taking care of the kids and all.....

My sons 2nd birthday is May 3. I pray that I will feel good that day so I can just enjoy him without being so self absorbed.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Merchant,

Thank you, thank you for the advice! I can't wait to look through all of the websites you posted. Such will also be useful for others going through this.

I did taper to very little for a long time (few months) before deciding to go cold turkey. At this point, my mind is telling me that if I take a small amount of sub, then I'll just b sitting myself back. Plus I'd have to get it off someone, which I don't want to revert to that habit. I'm going to have to deal with it eventually anyway :).

Day 8: Last night was a little rough, but I got almost 7 hours of sleep and my bodies loving it. Everyday, I'm getting more and more morning-sleep. Last night was a little rough with my legs and arms. At times, I just wanted to break, but I feel decent this morning. My Husband is working in another state and won't be home for another day- so I'm a little paranoid about that because he helps me get through the day- taking care of the kids and all.....

My sons 2nd birthday is May 3. I pray that I will feel good that day so I can just enjoy him without being so self absorbed.


Fun Times 7 years ago

religion started wars. so did land. so did money. so did power. so did egos. so did facism. i dare say someone hated someone else's shirt and that startred a fucking war. lol. i'm entitled to at least one rant.

merchant...u really are fucking stubborn. be stubborn with your kick and as my former dealers said when them peoples past by.."all's well!".

it friday..i'm getting happy. undiscerning comment(s) of the day: 1. i don't care who einstien fucked. in fact i keep a list of shit i don't care about...i have to add that one. he really aint shit to me. he wasn't saying...hey good job...keep it...during this kick. not once. 2. i do not believe in vitamins. lol. no joke. unless they give u a placebo effect. that's cool. i really don't think the normal rules of biological well being apply to people in the midst of long term opiate withdrawals. i just don't. except for chocalte, tryptophan, and sex. those are winners.

forverannie-respectfully speaking...your mind isn't your friend right now. sure it wants drugs. fuck your mind...why not...you got a mindfuck from it going on obsessing over orange pills. how motivated are you foreverannie. no shit-i would have set myself o fire for a day or two (if it didn't mess with my complexion) to be through with this shit. and it the subs were easy and cheap for me. one dr. visit (not a clinic visit) every 2 months...and insurance covered the pills. still not interested.

subfreechickadee-i am speaking sincerely when i sat great fucking job. absolutely stand up job lady. now-i'm fucking around again: do really really believe adam lived to be 930? shit. lemme guess..the canopy effect. with faith like that...no wonder u kicked cool.

as far as the leg thing goes i will say this-i had cramps for a couple weeks. three times i woke up in the middle of the night with my leg like at about a 65degree angle in the air fucking screaming...b/c the muscles were tightening...and i am convinced the tendon was about to snap. then in statred to spreading to the other leg. i laid back cool...repeated a mantra...and it slipped away right after that. that actually hurt...very sharp pain. that numb pain is what u have to expect.

merchant-i did look up some of the info on the sites u posted and the facts seem mutually exclusive. for what its worth.

happy friday everyone!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

.25mg day 4

ummm i lasted a full 25 hrs before taking my dose but i really hate the time schedule i'm trying to figure out a way to fix it w/out messing up my taperingschedule. i def. not adjusted to the decrease so i guess i'll be at .25mg for a few more days...my appetite is up and down but i'm like 5'4'' at 105pds and my b/f is always putting food in front of me...and that helps alot so diet has been good regardless of the last few days...sleep well i'm def. getting it just not like i was my schedule is off i get 3 hrs and wake up at 530am agree and wait to push the hour threshold then take my dose then waiting like another 1 -2 hours then falling asleep for acouple more hours. i'm not really that bad off or anything i'm just adjusting and it's messing up my daily routine...i don't like that very much at all but hey whatever i'll deal.

annie if your okay then awesome...truck on through it your doing well....i mean i'm not w/you or inside your head but from what your laying out there it seems to be going a little bit easier for you than from what i've heard before so def. stay your course...your hubby will b home soon enough and you'll be able to relax a wee bit.

funtimes...y are you so hostile? subfree mentioned einstein so we chit chatteed about it...so the fuck what....don't read it dude if side talk gets you so worked up...now the next time she wants to talk about something to pass the time or whatever how is she gonna feel? we know i don't care about what anyone thinks but maybe she does...i'm sorry you get so worked up but sometimes just bsing gets the day by and that is worth a million bucks. i'm not even trying to censor you...it doesn't bother me....i just thought you might want to look past all that hubris bs. nobody else seems to have a problem or takes offense...hell your apology to me or the other atheist wasn't even necassary...it was a conversation...not some moral judgement or personal attack...just people talking...your like way ahead of the game in clean time...i'm detoxing down....your a smart dude see shit for what it is and man relax you deserve it...nobody is out to get you...i promise.

as far as amino acids go...i will...once motivated go crack open a few books and hook ya up...if there is anything specific ya want to know? i'm thinking just restoration right? so what natural a.a. is depleted and what products are out there to help...that sort of thing? i'm happy the websites help i usually try finding the content that bests matches what i've read...i'm not trying to re-type my neuro. books or anything...and i try to find sites that can stand up on their own....sometimes just the infor. is correct....most of the knowledge is in research and that requires some depth to read and i don't want to bog the info up so abstracts are better i think for the general audience

...so i'll be back w/something hopefully of help. first i need to do that exersize thing i am so not wanting to do and i need to make some good meal so off i go!.............to stare into the abyss of the fridge waiting for that special something to jump out at me..mmmmmmmmmmm.


Fun Times 7 years ago

i just swear alot. im anti hostile. for real. ladies...chit chat away. really. i did say it was an undiscerning comment...kinda my way of saying...i'm just kidding.

i understand this is a serious time for people. the thing i dislike about online discussions is that nobody can tell when someone else (me for instance) is saying things in good fun. reading a line in black and white from someone u don't know is tough enough. adding the subjective addict input into what that person meant really puts things on thin ice. i did it myself before.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

dude i feel ya i get misread all the time...as we both know....so i've just been doing the lol thing or smiley deal so my humor isn't taken the wrong way.....lesson actually learned from our talks.

oh and why does the green number up top change???? what's up with that?


Fun Times 7 years ago

ohhh..i was gonna say thanks abouts about the kind offer to relax. thanks. what is neccessary and what i want to do are up to me...but i do appreciate your thoughts. hubris. fucking classic. that's how Leonitus knocked out the Immortals at the battle of Thermopoly (ie?). Xerses had hubris. My apologies for apologizing. i don't know...fuck it...i just say what i want like everyone else.

one thing i do know. i did think this was an open forum. i never called anyone a name. i was assured you were big girls...unphaseable. my mistake. fool me twice...shame on me.

really Merchant...when u described ur relationship with your b/f...fuck...i saw it i your posts. i do belive u can turn ur back on anyone. i know i can't. i do believe u try to hurt him in subtle ways (paraphrasing u). i'm sure i have done it...but i aspire not to. and with the fact that i am past this bullshit...i bid you good luck and adieu!


Fun Times 7 years ago

mercahant..i hate the time lag. that last ost was sweet of you. ok...hopefully we can still talk with the understand that hopefully at both ends are good intentions. i eally am just fucking around...i hope people know i only take one thing seriously on this site...everyone getting clean. call the rest hostile humour...even if it's not funny to you.

i really do want you well lady. i do.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

it's all good and ya have to constantly refresh the page it's crazy i know. i actually enjoy your humor it's witty your not a fool even if your not my biggest fan i appreciate somebody w/intelligence. getting clean is the primary objective but through our wee conversations we do gain personal insight and interpersonal skills so there is something always to be gained.

ya i'm not perfect....i love my b/f very much he's the only one ever....and yet i've never been so sadistic when hurt...huh go figure...but i'm working on that...it's all i could do ...and he's the same way actually so we both are trying to change that...but that comes with time....i guess it's sort of likethe deepest love hurts the most sort of thing...and i'm a newbie.

the reason i don't think i'm so effected by people around me is b/c i'm in a state of constant reflection...it's my prison of sorts...so i already know how i'm messed up [surprises do occur] and i truly am my worst/best critic....

but hey i'm happy it's all humor...i just say it as being bitter for a minute and as an objective opinion...which i appreciate...i thought i would sort of call it out...i don't care if i'm oppressed...we're alot alike that way...however not everybody is and for a moment i thought about people who originally posted the topic...not just my response..ya know...but hell joking around you can go where ever you want i'm as dark as they get...and screw it if nobody gets it so long as you know it's all in good fun....

i think a huge part of getting clean is not taking yourself or life so seriously


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

but really....the green number on top??? wtf...please i need to know...what is it? people on the hub? posts? number of smurfs required to make gold???? enlighten me...i very well may lose sleep!


Fun Times 7 years ago

i got two guesses. alchemist smurf makes smurf gold with three helpers...give or take. the green numbers...my best guess is that this is a limited forum as far as space...so you kick off a 6 month old rant lasting 3000 words, and add two new shorter comments pop up...and the number drops. something like that.

i really did 100% honestly appreciated the hubris remark. (am i allowed to call it brilliant without acting like i'm using hubris again? lol.) that was classic. spot on. obviously..u don't need my encouragement. i thought i was possibly hurtful to u ladies' recovery. and i just want to help. really.

u know...i can call my friend an asshole. and then the fun begins. my friends know me...they know i'd do anything for them (cause i don't have many...by choice). if someone's creeping around their house at 3am...call me. i look forward to that shit. i'm going there with two burners and bad intentions. really. if it turns out to be a cat...i'll be upset. i want vengance dexter style. and i aint trying to be clean about it. not yet anyway.

merchant...don't take this as condescending. you are by far the most interesting person on this site to me. wikepedia'd hubris...you fucking nailed it. fight club too. i don't know how to exchange email adresses or phone numbers (even though i gave the whole site mine)...but i think u are rare and gifted and extremely interesting. i'd enjoy emailing, iming, texting, or talking.

it would be fun. take care.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

queenie....i just found a post on drugs.com from you...i just got all excited and had to tell ya....i taper w/robert....dif. name but whatever...hey such a small world...it made me jump out of my seat when i realized it was you :)


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

dexter...huh my f*ckin hero! dude when me and the b/f went to see lamb of god on sunday...well i have messed up ribs and ankle so he was sort of helping me battle of the miscreants at the show...well he was all fed up and said i wish i had one of those damn dexter needles so i can start dropping people...there is a dexter doll no lie...body bag knife badge it's bad ass i want it soooo bad! i'm a dork i know and i don't care that shit is priceless...i would love to be at the writer's table for that show i have an infinite no. of ideas! SNL too that damn i'm on a boat song...too funny. you should scope out bo burnham on youtube some of his stuff is funny...silly humor some is pretty witty...and racey.

yeah i'm a hard core vigilante myself when it comes to justice...and i too invite "evil doers" to f*ck w/me or those i care about....that's a good thing though i think most are lacking the right perspective when it comes to protecting your own or what is universally right.

i have an aim acct and the whole myspace thing no cell....they are evil...i barely answer my house phone. if ya want send me that and i'll send ya mine....it's all good.

hmmm...the number count sounds about right...i thought it was posts but i was confused by the no. fluxuating so often but that makes sense to have a limited amt. of space and so forth. i will consider the mystery solved....hooray! all is well in the world of merchant now...


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

day 4...sucks...my body is mad so very mad at me! it could be worse this i know...but i'm like so high strung right now w/no energy...no aches or anything some chills/sweats they're okay i guess...mentally though grrr. i'm making my main goal today to be putting away groceries that are chilling on my kitchen floor..there are alot of non perishables that need to go in the basement. i am so sluggish blahhhhh....but from what i hear this is one of the harder transitions and once i get to skipping days i'll be better off going through this.

it's like i'm teetering on this fence ya know like i want to be normal so bad i won't give in to temptation...i won't i know me i'm a dick even to myself...but on the other hand mmmmmmmmm sythnetic normality in the wee orange pill.....no worries that pill could crawl in a hole and die but it's like always on my mind

i know i'll adjust only to go down yet again but it's blunting the w/d for later and that is cool....taking it in increments is better for me just tonight is gonna be one of those nights...maybe i'll f*ckin go nuts and run up and down my steps til i pass out ya i can do laudry and take a shower hmmm...

sorry for the "out loud" contemplations i am honestly trying to kill this day one hour or post at a time. i have 18min til i get up and go do something....i gave myself a timeline....but i could be so insubordinate :)


Fun Times 7 years ago

awwwwww man. Merchant...i just saw lamb of god on you tube. can't u just be hard like them? i started listening to old venom, bought slayers show no mercy (their first) when it came out, early frost (i bought that fucking hellhammer ep...still upset ), and old school dri, minor threat, and coc (while hey were still punk). i still dig the misfits. "mother...." my buddy said florida had this doom death call it what u will scene. shit...draw some strength off that. there are some really kick ass bands from europe. google a a drummer ccalled hellhammer...if u arent into euro balck metal. that fucker is insane...for real.

i saw dri at a smaller venue for chicago...the metro. this fucker had like 3 drums, and he just wailed the shit out of them. that was a cluster fuck. great show!!!! punks don't mosh (if that term is even used anymore...i don't know)...they throw down harder...but they will pick a cat up if he's about to die.

anyway...check out some avante gaurd (not my name) balck metal from Europe. anti-christian (not too satanic) pagan shit. they feel christianity watered down their norweigan viking culture. my dying bride, dimuborgir...just go europe black metal. u may or may not like it.

i miss my thrash/punk days. Fun Times!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

i took a shower did some push ups i'm okay...my mind doesn't have an off switch though...i deal i've learned how it's all good. the show was great as i lay dying played they had awesome energy my only regret is i was too messed up to participate in the wall of death....next time. this summer you should scope out the mayhem fest. it has a decent line up slayer cannibal corpse...old skool stuff...i'm one of the rare ones like dig punk and metal...i love minor threat and rage did a great cover actually. i hate children of bodom i don't understand y people like them they're fags. i like rammstein there from europe...u should check out chimaira and parkway drive they are really good...talent suicide silence and job of a cowboy are hard core too.

as far as jumping off...no way i'm sticking to the plan...i'll be there in like a week anyways...i've already stated my theory and i'm sticking withit and hell it's hard not to just quit [def. masochist] but every time i did i never stuck with it and i'm trying to do something different and i've come pretty damn far so i have a good feeling i'll be done after a couple of weeks.

i am very motivated and i appreciate the sentiment it all helps. i've kicked c/t many times before....but for some reason this is the best way for me w/subs and the feedback i get is positive most people are feeling 100% by day 14 by taking their time. so it's a worthwhile investment.

and i am pretty sure we are around the same age...it's just apart of me....it's real me from when i was younger that addiction could never touch so i always stayed w/the music it's liberating....kinda funny when i first went to NA back in the day they would say it was a trigger to go to shows little did they know that was when i was most sober.....


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

oh and by messed up i mean the fractures and what not....i reread and it sounded sort of bad...job for a cowboy another typo


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

alice in chains is my theme music today though...oh and my man tyler sticks to plan...in the end after all is set up you blow it up and start over....my intentions to the fullest trust and believe me....i'm crazy committed to my convictions and more determined than almost everybody i know....watch that movie w/the comments on it's really quite funny man


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

one of the very best bands ever is tool though.....right in two i can listen to on repeat over and over and over ...tell me your a tool fan any respectable music fan has to be.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

angels on the sideline,

puzzled and amused

why did father give these humans free will?

now their all confused.

---just his ideologies are great how well there put...no i'm not religious but i have like this filter right so when say somebody says god bless...i hear..have a good day but aside from all that redundancy...really really insightful well at least for me it relates to all the thoughts that float around in my head

i tend to look at the larger pic. first and it helps keep my life and decisions into perspective for instance like when i would kick c/t i would think about vet. over nam kicking that was a bad detox getting shot up blown up all sick marching ....makes me look weak...and when shit hits the fan and i feel overwhelmed i think of other people's realities...i become humble and grateful really quick...i may not believe in god but i am seriously one of the most spiritual people i know when i feel it's deep it's not shallow and i def. don't take that for granted i'm lucky not alot people get to live or look at life the way i do...it's nice to find things to relate to it's not too often i come across it....this is a good topic


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

k well off i go for a wee adventure outside


foreverannie 7 years ago

OK Merchant, you said it, 1 week and NO MORE SUBS. WE are counting down the days-lol. By next Friday, no more SUBS! I'm with Fun Times, you are feeling withdraws right now that you could very well be feeling not taking any. Day 9: I'm just weak. But, get this team, my legs are not restless for the 1st time. I'll take any beating over restless legs!I went to work today and hated every minute of it. But I'm starting to feel more normal. 7 hours of sleep last night!


foreverannie 7 years ago

OK Merchant, you said it, 1 week and NO MORE SUBS. WE are counting down the days-lol. By next Friday, no more SUBS! I'm with Fun Times, you are feeling withdraws right now that you could very well be feeling not taking any. Day 9: I'm just weak. But, get this team, my legs are not restless for the 1st time. I'll take any beating over restless legs!I went to work today and hated every minute of it. But I'm starting to feel more normal. 7 hours of sleep last night!


andrea 7 years ago

I WAS ON SUBOXONE FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS P-SCRIBED. I LOST MY DOCTOR SO FOR THE PAST YEAR OR SO I'VE BEEN BUYING THEM OFF THE STREET. I'M UP TO ABOUT 16 MG A DAY...ANYWAYZ, I'M CURRENTLY WITHDRAWAL REALLY BAD FROM THEM, AND I DON'T NO WHAT TO DO.IF I WENT TO THE ER WOULD THEY DO ANY THING TO HELP ME?


foreverannie 7 years ago

Andrea,

I know it's tough and I'm glad your on here. I'm not sure what they would do. How long have you been without?

You may want to try finding a rehab center if it gets bad. I am currently 9 days free of subs and it's still a little tough! I feel for you girl.


Fun Times 7 years ago

you know...i need to start this post with something i said earlier. Merchantofdealth mentioned a few things to me in her post. First, let me just say that i have been told that i caome off as hostile at times. Merchant had no incentive to lie...of coursh of course...so i believe i do.

it is important to me that everyone on this site understands something. just as i told Merchant...i intasnt message people, and things are taken the wrong way, by them and me. I've had everything at one time or another misinintrepted...from posts, to cell texts, to IMS, to emails....and sometimes (quite rare) rarer...voicemails. as ive said before...a post is a black and white snapshot of words. veryyy useful. but not a window into the posters soul. or their state of mine, body language (do they think something that they're writing is a joke...like my freud comment...and/or somthing that seem genuinely seems hostile...and if so: DO THEY MEAN TO BE HOSTILE PRICS?).

if i didn't care about you people....i really wouldn't be here. merchant i did get genuinly angry when you called God the tooth fairy, after calling him santa and that stuff. it seemed (and still does) that through my experiences...many recovering addicts...especially new ones (like i condsider many people on this site, myself included, to be)really needed their faith in God to help through what can feel like torture. i just felt like i had to say-listen..quit that merchant...because God is REALLY paramount to some addicts...especially early in recovery.. i will speak my mind..no joking around...when i feel that someone's recovery is jeapordized (by themselves or someone else). i hope everyone understands that,,,cause i'm not changing. I call anything fair game...tell me i'm a fag..call me a bigot or racist...say that bush was a great president (pheww...now i'm really conceding the unthinkable, lol!) BUT IF I SENSE THAT YOU ARE HURTING SOMEONE'S RECOVER I AM GENUINELY HOSTILE. IF I SENSE THAT YOU ARE HURTING YOUR OWN RECOVERY...I WILL BE GENUILNELY CONCERNED. I WON'T BE HOSTILE...BUT I WONT BE JOKING. I MAY NOT ALWAYS BE RIGHT...BUT I FUCK AROUND ALOT...I DO NOT FUCK AROUND AVOUT PEOPLE GETRTING OFF SUBOXONE AND STAYING OFF.

i care for you guys concerning your detox, i really, really do. heroin fucked up my life. now i'm finally free. my coscience demand that i try and help anyone i think i can get to beopiate fee. the words i use i posts about that in my posts all have good intentions toward someone detoxing. just take that for what its worth . fuck the rest of what i say..its small talk.

Merchant of death...i really loved the various definitions and deper meanings of hubis..not the current americam "arrogant/condescening" definition. i may think im smart..ive been told it throughout my life, in various ways...someyimes by people i consider to be very importannt. i always tested very, very well. but i wasn't smart enough to not become a dope adicct. as i've said...i measure intellgence in my own way .but reading the ancient meaning and my "sorry laies" post...it seemed like so many of my remarks were geting twisted (noone's fault...except quite possibly mine) that i was doing more harm than good. and i never every want o mess with anone's detox/recovery. in the classic sense at leasrt toward you i had no hubris. i wasn't being condescending. i consider you my intellectual equal. maybe you're smarter...maybe i am. i was trying to be encouraging, sometimes people don't know just how gifted they really are. thats all. i wante to make sure you knew...if it inspired u 1 crumb...i wanted u too know, i was being honest. Also...after looking at your posts i can tell another thing...you likely have way more responsiblity. i live alone. never been married. no kids. stable job. you're in the fucing army, with children, cracked ribs and kicking, and you are job hunting. my life is a breeze compared to that. No wife..no kids...no military duty ( i was marked PMD 'permamnent milltary disqualification whe i enlisted in the ariforce before i even got my high school diploma...because i had some surgical operations ate age 11 0r 12...i applaude anyone in por military for their service. Thank you for preserving my loved ones and my freedom merchantof death) you are strong lady. fuck you are srong!

Foreverannie...whether you know it or not...you said the sweetest thing anyone can possibly say to me on or off this site. you said i really really helped at one point of your detox. and your a 4 year member, like me. u don't know how good of a feeling. i feel hearing anybody tell me i helped them get and/or stay clean. Thank you so much. that's the one thing anyone on this site can say to me that really means anything. otherwise i'd already be off this site.

i am here to have a little fun (like meeting some wonderful people,,,like Merchant, Queenie (even though from a silly text we stopped taliking..if you're out there queenie...if it would have been a converrsation we'd still be texting, talikng, and laughng...i gotta at least see if we can be cool), and now you forverannie.

I just bouhgt a new computer and am breaking it in with this post. lol. fuck...is it magna carta length..or longer? me email/im is garysloane@att.net. if anyone i've spoken/posted with wants to get in touch with me...i would like that alot. merchant...i really hope you do. you too Queenie (of course), K-, Dustybug, Subfreechickadee (with out hubris on my part...you seem very interesting) and Foreverannie (you really made my day the other day...i know these can be really ruff times..id love nothing more to try and help you in anyway i can). just send me an invite if any of you want to talk, joke around (Queenie) or have a discussion (cmon Merhant) i am hoping we get the chance. it would mean alot to me.

as for your plan merchant...im kinda split. u seem to be doing it so well and meticulosly...that why fuck up something that is working so good. Forverannie...i really get your argument. it seemed to just take a lot of the stress any obession away whe i flushed the rest of my oills. it caused me undo anxiety...i felt like i was really relieved when i was on zeo. sure...it was uncomfortable. in favor of your idea foreverannie...it seems common knowledge among my friends that the easiest heroin kick is in jail...b/c you mind doesn't consider heroin anymore...cause there aint any...and they say that helped so much. merchant... i know u have already thought this out and are gonna do what u are gonna do. in favor of yor plan i can oly say "hey...you kicked cold before...it didn't work...this is working...so keep it uo girl"! Another bonus...i quit using H 7 years ago at least. subs never got me high. the longer u are off the drugs that got u to subs...the more u forget them. the only thing i remeber about H is it made me comfy and sleepy...and made me wake up every morning vomiting bile, made me cat insane, cost me money and relationships, and desroyed my mind. and almost got me killed and impriosned daily. ohhh...i i did get the occassional euphoria and plan something brilliant that i never did, cause i woke uomsick the next day.

be good everyone. garysloane@att.net. say hi if u want to. it would be very cool to chat with you guys.i hope i can. later.

take care gang. stay strong...mentall

it would be cool to me if everyone understands what is in my heart: i scrw around at times on this site. sometimes i forget that you guys have not persoannly known me for many yeras...and if i tell me friend..."hey...that is some thinking. quit it jackass"...i will be met with either "really...why the fuck did you say that" (actually is curios), or a "fuck you / whatever )not so curious at the moment, a laugh, or silence, and the conversation will proceed all cool. i only keep a few friends by choice...i just don't find that many people intetesting.


Fun Times 7 years ago

my post was disjointed. i spell meticulously at work, wow my spelling sucks on this site. paragraph form or not...it becomes a sTream of consioussness. many of the words ending in "o" really end in "p", i'm only one space away! but i hate reading the grammatical errors i write down. simple spelling. leaving entire phonetic parts off of words. sounds so retarted. ahhh well. it could be worse. stay strong mentally gang. i'm proud of all of you. be proud of youselves...please. you know u are all doing some hardcore stuff. in your most painful or boring moments..remember that. you're doing ALL YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO...SHIT U DREAMED ABOUT FOR YEARS. DO NOT FORGET THAT,,,please don't. think of all the times you wanted kick in your life, now you are, ;) be proud!


Fun Times 7 years ago

ohhhhhh. i forgot to give a special conratulations to foreverannie. made it through work on zero. IF THERE WAS EVER A WEEKEND were i was your husband i would give u a big LONG kiss (and you know where too! c'mon man...help the lady out already)! How about an Alaskan Waffle. mmmmnnnn. I forgor....in addition to trytophan, chocolate, and sex is Ben & Jery's, Dove Bars, and Haagen Dass.

And husbands much watch the kids today. PERIOD. me, personally, I would let all you women curl up on the couch...rent her a couple dvds (tropic thunder, forgetting sarah marshall, something about mary, pineapple express, something FUNNY)....and massage her with a nice oil/lotion...and give her the sweetest "kiss" for each and every bj they ever got in their life! That's the deal dudes (men). if you want your wife or g/f healthy...if u EVER wanna get laid again...this is the ladies weekend. DEAL WITH IT...AND DO THIS STUFF WITH A SMILE...BECAUSE YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY LOVE THIS WOMAN...SO ACT LIKE IT...ESPECIALLY DUDES NOT KICIKING...C'MON...SHOW YOUR WOMAN HOW PROUD YOU ARE AND HOW MUCH YOU LOVE HER.

TAKE IT FROM ME GUYS...THIS IS A CLASS A SON OF A BITCH. A CROSS BETWEEN A HANGOVER, FOOD POISONING, POISON IVY, THE MOTHER IN LAW VISTING FOR A MONTH, THE WORST FLU U EVER HAD, AND A SLIPPED DISK. TELL ME I'M LYING. CAN U REALLY JUST LET HER SUFFER LIKE THAT. GO GET BREAKFAST. HOW WOULD SHE TREAT YOU? I SWEAR..LEAVE HER STRANDED THIS WEEKEND AND WATCH...SHE'S GONNA START LOOKING SUPER HOT (LOSING WEIGHT, GETTING SUN, EATING HEALTHY, EXCERCISING, AND STRUTTIG AROUND ALL SEXY...NOW THAT HER LIIBIDO WILL BE GOING TROUGH THE ROOF FOR LIKE 6 MONTHS) so men do everything i said (ladies..telll them thats the deal, period), and give your women a well desreved break,

and ladies, very sweetly lay down law, if your husband can't read this post...explain to hi exactly what you require. His payoff is a clear headed sweet wife (with a super libido) whe the kick is over and tou are 100% again. Then he'll be happy he listened, loved, supported, and helped you during a crucial time in your life!


foreverannie 7 years ago

How can I go from having a decent day to the worst freaking night of my life!!!! NO SLEEP, achy muscles, blah, blah. I actually started feeling sorry for myself last nigh- something I swore I wouldn't do. My husband is at work (he's on call 24/7) and it took everything out of me to take care of my baby.

I am soooo ready to give in today guys or am thinking about going to rehab. My mind is raising......

School will be out in less than a months, so I will have the summer off.


queenie 7 years ago

Andrea, most likely they will not give you what you are looking for. The normal protocol for addicts in ER is saline drip and monitor B/P through W/D. After being stabilized you will have a psychiatrist do an eval. If your not ready to kick why dont you find another Dr. to write for you? Hi to everyone else


queenie 7 years ago

ps. everyone, if for some reason we cant meet on this site lets meet on the other sub site with the face . It has only 3 comments.....k?


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Most Important First: ForeverAnnie.... don't give in!!!! It's no sleep... it makes it so much worst... I did that on night 12, and day 13 I was crying all day, suicidal... it was horrible... I felt the exact same way you do now... I checked out several rehabs, and no one would take me on suboxone... they said I had to be 7 days without, and I had to have something else in my system when I came in... but they also admitted that suboxone wasn't on the drug test... I know there are some out there that will take you though... but the ones I called only gave anti-nausea & anti-diarrhea & sleep medicine for a week and that's it.... we prefer the comfort of our home, but I've never been to rehab either so... I just wanted you to know that you will probably get some kind of sleep tonight - lots of people say you have to sleep when you can, even if it's only a couple of hours at a time... but you will probably feel better tomorrow if you can hang in there girl.... we've all been there, done this... you're just wore down today because of no sleep I believe... I only got 4 hours sleep last night - 2 and 2 with several up hours inbetween, and that was with Ambien, and I know what a bitch it is... but it will get better... like FunTimes said, you will have good days and bad days... I really, really hope you can hang in... I feel for you so much right now... you've had a wonderful attitude so far, but it is normal I believe to break down after so long, especially after no sleep... I also don't want you to get discouraged by me still not sleeping on night 28 because once you get to this point, you can deal with that... there are more good days than bad, and it will be over soon is what I keep telling myself.....


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Now... Funtimes, I did not post yesterday even though I read everything because I was offended, I thought about never writing again because my first reaction was that you attacked me, and I thought it was VERY counter-productive to my recovery.... and Merchant hit it right on the head, it made me not want to say shit else about anything else, PERIOD. That said, I read everything else, thought about it, and it's cool. I understand. And I think Merchant is smarter than you...LOL... thanks Merchant for everything you said, I was thinking everything you said, you were exactly right... I appreciate it... you really are an awesome person, and one hell of a fighter.... I care about everyone on here as well, and I was just trying to make small talk... but sub recovery is the most important thing... I put my whole life on here... and it helped, and that is something I normally wouldn't do... and I thank everyone for listening, and I'm sorry if it was boring or too much info or whatever, but it was theraputic for me, and I encourage other people to talk about whatever they want... I'll read it... LOL.... sorry, guys, I've just been very emotional - worried because I am running out of Ambien (not like it helps much anyway anymore), I'm on my last pack of cigs, and I loaned all my money to a friend that was suppose to pay it back yesterday (I don't get paid until next month), and I had a really bad day yesterday physically - oh the pain, why is it still around??? The anxiety yesterday.... what the hell man? My jaws hurt from gritting my teeth, chewing on my tounge... fuck my mouth hasn't even been bothering me this whole entire time.... and on day 28 it starts? And I'm still doing it today.... I took over one of my husband's symptoms, what the fuck? I'm just pissed... ANYWAY... doing better today Merchant? Today is day 5 huh... on .25 - should be leveling out... Hey Queenie nice to hear from you... Day 29..... will this ever end?? Shouldn't complain, I know... anyone got any tips for quitting smoking? Thanks y'all...


queenie 7 years ago

foreverannie, dont give up! You will have good days and bad for a month. Two weeks until i started turning the corner( i documented everyday on this site). This is when you must dig deep down and be strong. You are stronger than that orange pill. I did have a 10mg methadone pill that i broke in teeny, tiny pieces and when i could take no more and felt i was going crazy i would take .5 or 1mg . It was just enough that i could exhale. I did this maybe 4 or 5 times during the first 2 weeks. After two weeks i still had half the pill left. From that point on i was balls to the wall! I dont think anyone will condemn you for whatever you do.At least not on this site.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I've also had a cold for 4 days now...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Foreverannie: don't let my rants get you down, it does get A LOT BETTER after two weeks... hang in there!!!! Keep us updated, let it all out...


foreverannie 7 years ago

Thanks guys, I haven't gave in yet although I have opportunities. I just think I can handle another sleepless night. I am manic waiting on my husband to come home. Maybe I can try to take a nap when he gets here. Last night sucked. Every night sucks- days are better. I just worry about not taking care of my to children properly. It's not their fault that I'm an idiot.

Queenie are you sleeping yet.

Whats the link to the other website.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Thanks guys, I haven't gave in yet although I have opportunities. I just think I can handle another sleepless night. I am manic waiting on my husband to come home. Maybe I can try to take a nap when he gets here. Last night sucked. Every night sucks- days are better. I just worry about not taking care of my to children properly. It's not their fault that I'm an idiot.

Queenie are you sleeping yet.

Whats the link to the other website.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I just wanted to say that it has been a lot better for my husband... for about the last week he was sleeping about 7 or 8 hours..... we just had a bad past two nights for some reason... I dunno... yes, definitely try to take a nap.... good luck...


Fun Times 7 years ago

c'mon foreverannie. its easy to say but its what i did. adjust your expectations. this really aint supposed to be fun. u may go awhile without sleeping. u kinda gotta say..ok..this aint fun...but i can swing it. i can deal with a little misery. it goes away. now i will say this: anxiety sucks. can't you get some valium or xanax. they're just benzos and will take the edge right off.


Fun Times 7 years ago

ohhhh yeah. subfreechickadeee...i owe u an apology as well. and i mean it. i forget a few things...u guys don't know me (my friends would ignore me or tell to to get fucked)...i'm just gonna let you women talk (that's the other thing...i swear alot and talk like a guy in bar...good intentions or not).

foreverannie..i'm sure i offended you too..i had to ;) I am sorry. be good girls.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I swear a lot too, hope it's not offending... Funtimes, I didn't wanna lie about how I felt when I read it, but it's really ok... don't feel bad about it, I understand where you're coming from & you've explained how you are and think so I didn't mean to make you regret anything you said, you are who you are... I think you're funny, witty, and you've helped me & everyone else.... it was just my first reaction to get offended, that's why I didn't write, so I wouldn't say anything I would regret... what I meant to say earlier was I'M COOL - I get ya, and would miss ya if you went away.... I shouldn't have said anything, I feel bad now... dammit (Texas talk) LOL... you were here before me... I don't want to hinder you helping anyone.... I'm sorry for what I said, that was low of me because I know you weren't trying to be mean - IT'S ALL GOOD, really!!


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Say what you want to say, when you want to say it


Fun Times 7 years ago

subfreeckadee...all is well. that was sweet of you. i'm particulary proud of you. you've actually kicked. that's great. we're al addicts. we all operate on impulse. we all have to learn to change that...at least i do.

and i think we are caring sensitive people. i am used a ruffer sense of humor than women have...so i'll be mindful of that. and please...never worry about hurting my feelings. that would be difficult for anyone to do. i've already hurt myself more than anyone could. i kind am unphaseable. on things that does phase me is if i am hurtful to others. that offends my conscience. i'm always hopeful i can help. i would wholeheartedly agree that merchant is wayyyy smarter than me...but I'm on to that one...hubris was punishable by death in ancient greece. it's a fucking requirement to be an american it seems. lol. i'll be mindful that i am talking to women, tis isn't bar, we're here for a somewhat common person...but u've never met me nor I you. i think we'd all like each other. i honestly do.

foreverannie...you were just telling merchant to QUIT altogather. she is being really hard and sensible. understand that your emotions are in a state of "confusion?...for lack of a better word" try and inhale exhale, and be cool. you'll be parent of the year off subs. i'd aim for giving your baby that. your gonna be fine. opiates cause sleep (morphine=morpheous=god of sleep). remember homer's army crashing in that poppy field. so now..no opiates..no sleep. it's natural. ur body will adjust. c'mon...forget thinking if u can...just keep existing...set the bar low...let days pass, and all will be well.


queenie 7 years ago

yes im sleeping and have been for at least a couple weeks. i also work 12hr shifts, that helps me sleep but when i first went back to work(week 3) i was not sleeping much. The other site is just another hub. Just google suboxone hub and you will see it. Its a wierd face that almost looks plastic. It says 3 comments. Fun Times you sound passive-aggresive on here and i see you have a way with the ladies.....eh!? Your alright in my book kid and your rants crack me up (i sound like a guy in a bar) lmfao!


Fun Times 7 years ago

as long as Queenie likes me all is well. ohhh yeah...thanks...i was just born charming. it's one of those blessings that God gave me...like i said before...more of a curse than anything. [that my a inside joke between me and sexy Queenie....so i politely ask that nobody condemn me for it. I cannot help being born handsome and witty and charming...oohhhkay...it's my cross to bear!].

imfao=in my fucking absolute opinion?

and thank you again for calling me passive aggressive. in my imagination that's a step up from hostile ;)


Fun Times 7 years ago

where the fuck did i learn how to type? land of the retards. oooohkay! once more: {that WAS my inside joke between me and sexy Queenie}

(until i pissed her off one night and had to beg for forgiveness. no shit Annie- i hope ur not next. lol.)

Queenie...i know u weren't being sarcastic about my way with women. right? i di i did tell them they all desired a day full of unilateral sexual favors from their boyfriends/husbands (time to call in those bjs ladies). And while its true that all but one has at one point detested me.....they still take me back.

why...b/c they know i truly care. i maintain i am not trying to get laid on this site...there are better ways to go about that. this is a for real kicking suboxone sucks so help each other site to me. there.


Fun Times 7 years ago

fuck it...last try: " i di i did tell them they all desired a day full of unilateral sexual favors from their boyfriends/husbands: should read:

I DID TELL THEM THAT THEY ALL DESERVED A DAY OF UNILATERAL SEXUAL FAVORS FROM THEIR BOYFRIENDS/HUSBANDS. geeze


foreverannie 7 years ago

OK, so I'm fine now. Your right, I'm just a nut case, but I'm only 9 days and balancing a career, two kids, and much more. I'm just thinking about how I'm going to do it all. I'm a teacher!

So my husband comes home at 1:33 and I instantly feel better. My vulternability is getting the best of me I think. I used to be a strong- willed, independent woman, with over 12 years of college under my belt and I get my a** kicked by pain pills. Thank you all for helping me understand my addiction...I haven't untill now or have been in complete denial

OK, so what do you guys think about Tramadone and Clonipine. My mother offered my some, but I don't want to pick up a new addiction


Fun Times 7 years ago

First a joke: 12 years in college. wow. i got a bba and j.d. in seven. you must have been on a decelerated program. lol. just kidding...but u better have a phd lady.

Seriously: Run and get the Clonipine faster than a speeding bullet. just don't gring and sniff them like i used to. Honestly Annie...i'm not as silly as i sound. it takes weeks if not much longer to build up a sincere benzo addiction. i have no experience w/tramadol. benzo's (and clonipine is like valium...not like it's evil brother Xanax)...i highly recommend u STAYING OFF SUBS AND OPIATES AND HIGHLY RECOMMEND GETTING THE CLONIPINE. just swallow 'em...you'll be fine. and yes i am a doctor. juris doctor. so bear that in mind. go girl!


foreverannie 7 years ago

Lost story about mmy education..it's not that I'm was a bad student that kept flunking out, I just did different things Masters in Secondary Ed and Masters in Special ED, plus 2 year PHD, not finished. I am slowly doing my dissertation in my classroom. Although I did do 2 years of fieldwork experience with At Risk Youth, we decided to publish our ethnography (university sponsered program), so it can't be credited as dissertation work at my university.

Anyway, about my crappy addiction, I also bought 7 day Detox OTC and L Gaurantine, and some type of pain relief bath- so I have more battle weapons- lol.

Fun Times,

you don't offend me. Have you noticed than I intentionally ignore some of your comments? lol. I try not to get caught up in drama. Maybe in a couple of weeks when I feel like giving you a piece of my mind, we'll do battle


Fun Times 7 years ago

i appreciate u ignoring me. lol. u are one of the kinder souls on the site.

what's drama to ladies really is funny to me. in a couple weeks...if i'm still alive...i welcome the summer of your discontent with me. i don't battle women though. don't even argue (verbally) with them. i hit guys that hit women. gosh...i really am cool to every girl i meet. hell...i've never even cheated on a girl i dated. i just haven't met anyone on this site. as i've said...i have to remind myself...this isn't cyberworld...these are real people.

it's been hard ever since that nigerian dude tricked me with phony photos on match.com. lol.


foreverannie 7 years ago

I heard that happens to te best of your kind...

So will the Clonopines help me sleep tonight. THey better or I'm blaming it on u!


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I wouldn't touch the tramadol..... it works differently than opiates, but me & hubbie were addicted to them, and it didn't take that long... we were ordering 1,000 at a time because it was cheap to do that & taking 20+ a day - I'm not saying taking a couple here and there would get you addicted, but it won't help you sleep - never made us sleepy or anything, not strong enough - Are we talking about Klonopin or Clonidine? our doc gave us Clonidine (not pin) when we were tapering down - made us feel messed up in the head, and did not help us sleep.... took it once and never again, but we were still on subs... it's a freaking high blood pressure medicine, and it did make us drowsy, and it is suppose to help with withdrawals, I dunno... I did take valium for two nights during the first week, and they helped me sleep SO WELL... I don't think the Klonopin would hurt you - I, personally, wouldn't take it every night or anything... just when I couldn't take it anymore, probably will help you sleep, but I haven't taken any... benzos do help you sleep though... I'm proud of you for hanging in there....... my work is online, on my own time, so I couldn't imagine having to juggle all that... like I said before, I have someone to watch my children 24/7 also so damn I feel like a wuss compared to you and Merchant... can I just add in here that I didn't finish college, but I do have business smarts.... hehe... me and my husband did have our own business with several employees, and a huge warehouse... we bought baby items, electronics, toys, all kinds of shit wholesale & resold them - we were living the high life, and a $200 a day habit took that all away... ruined us... so I'll be the first to admit, I'm not as educated as everyone on here... I missed so much college because of my daughter being in the hospital, then having to go to Houston all the time, I finished out my second year, barely and never went back. Sucks....... I regret it..... but anyways, just had to put that out there - y'all make me feel inadequate...LOL... but in a good way, if that makes any sense??? Funtimes, I took what you said wrong - since you tried to say bye once before, I thought you were saying you were just going to let us girls talk - like you weren't going to anymore... but now I realize what you meant, but anyway... everyone loves you on here, you're fucking awesome.... and I'm not being sarcastic.... you sound like a good catch, why aren't you taken? Never cheated on a woman? DAMN.... smarts and loyal... was it the drugs? Just curious...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Also what's weird is, the pills actually made us quit working - that's how we lost everything.... time took over and eventually money ran out right in front of us, lost everything one by one, and it didn't even phase us... damn pills are evil... hehe


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

OH - I came face to face with hydro today, and I was very pleased that I actually became physically nauceous at the thought of taking one... it was a test.... I passed, and I'm pleased...


foreverannie 7 years ago

Sub Free,

Klonopin is what I got. I am definately taking one tonight. Thanks for the advice girl. Yeah, you are definately lucky to have someone watch your child. I'm sure that takes a load off your mind. My daughters family lives around here, but my husband (thefather of my 2 year old) family lives in MA. I'm one that feels a little unease to be away from my kids, especially the baby for any amount of time even though I'm sure it would be us good from time to time. Your such a nice, caring person. I can definately tell. I can't wait to get to where your at with your recovery.

Just a few side notes:

I haven't considered myself extremely smart, just ambitious and devoted (before my habit). I used to love what I did (before my habit) and couldn't wait to get to work to see my group.

The past few years I took some time off as a high school teacher, became a stay at home mom, and worked on an advanced degree to keep my mind straight because I hated myself so much.

Now I'm returning to the classroom, teaching something different, and I just want to love what I do again.

I took the Tramadol bf I read your post. It did stop my legs from cramping, but I didn't know it was that addictive, even from other stuff I read. I'm glad you shared your 1st hand experience. I just figured if I could get my legs to stop and take a Klonopin for sleep- just one good night then maybe that will speed my recovery.

I tend to be impulsive ;)


foreverannie 7 years ago

By the way...my husband told me that he loved me more now than ever and I was much nicer now. Geez, that type of comparison makes me think I must have been a major b*tch before.lol


Fun Times 7 years ago

a couple of thoughts:

seriously-that's a nice post foreverannie. that's very nice of your husband to do.

kinda joking-tell him talk is cheap and he better get busy! ps. from one junkie to another...let it out lady...say BITCH! lol.

subfrechickadee-as much as i loved women...sniff....i loved heroin more. really- it didn't not seem fair to any girl i dated to wind up married to an addict like me. they were good girls. i was bad. hence...i'm single. hold back your tears though...i have recentlt accepted that i really got to try and date women over 23...so i have a chance. i shall keep u all posted on the very intimate details of my quest for one true love.

Foreverannie-i'm glad u got the Clonopin. Now i'm gonna give u my address...hahahaha. Really, take 2 before sleeping. one aint enough to knock u out...although u can give it a try. i can't even say they will knock u out...they may...but they will certainly do what they were designed to do: take the edge of your anxiety...day or night. i bet a pint of ben and jerry's will knock u out.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Foreverannie-why did you hate yourself. I'm curious...no joke.

Subfrechick-drugs are like that. at first use you become superhuman. once the thrill is gone u become subhuman (even animals a knack for self-prersevation...i lost that at the end).

do tell foreverannie. you seem very nice. why would u hate yourslf?


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Annie: if Tramadol took the leg pain away, then a little won't hurt to get you through... just be cautious.... I just had to say something about it... me and my husband used to joke in the beginning of kicking, what if we don't like each other sober??? LOL... we don't remember what we use to be like... I have three kids, and I am with them every day... we're staying with my in-laws to get through the withdrawals, but I do have the luxury of kind of "living" downstairs while they live upstairs right now, and it's hard - I feel bad not caring for them how I should right now, but I know it's for their own good, I couldn't take care of them properly right now... I'm on edge, no energy, and all that... You're absolutely right FunTimes, you need to date women over 23... hehe...also, my hubbie wants to know when you got your full energy back??


Fun Times 7 years ago

I would tell your husband that I have energy when I need it...after about 2.5 weeks. This week, after working hard all week...my body hit the floor Friday night after work and I woke up at 1pm. But I was cool at work.

I actually lifted free-weights through my kick. I could summon 20 minutes of energy early on. after 2 .5 weeks...i was a madman at work. After 25 days it's purely a matter of motivation. I could sleep 18 hours after over 100 days. Or workout. It really is all in my head. The cool thing is...your body is like a videogame. Point, click...and your body will move. I'd advise freeweight. The lethargy lasts awhile...unfortunately. so be motivated.


queenie 7 years ago

subfreechickadee, gosh, couldnt you have picked a shorter name? lol. Just wanted to tell you i started getting energy back around 6 weeks but i pushed myself from 3 weeks on. You are truly blessed to have in-laws like that. Can you imagine trying to do this with that stress? OMG. I cant believe Fun Times is telling you guys to call in those BJ's. That is so off the wall. i appreciate that kinda inappropriate humor!


Fun Times 7 years ago

how is everybody doing?

foeverannie...are u ok?

subfreechicakdee...are u ok?

mercantofdeath...are u ok?

everyone else...are u all ok?

i finally got my new computer. I'd really like to chat with you merchantofdeath, as ive said before. we can talk philiosophy, punk, metal, u name it. i hope u are cool. i really do.

I know we all rant...of course i do...but this site really helped me...even after being off subs for 72 days, I do have some kind of PAWS to thsi day that are very real. i slept eighteen hours yesterday, (and slightly crashed my car soon after leaving my house...yeah...fun times). I had no motivation or energy this weekend. really no motivation at all. but I called a friend in Recovery...my best friend since i was 7 (32 years ago), we hung out, i called Queenie, we had a great and fun conversation...and i know i always get in trouble for doing this...but i want to say that even if she and i joke around a little...and it carries over to this site...she is the best. she is in the medical field. she is really really smart and caring...and i will continue to thank her for all her help. i have read her posts where she helps others. she seems to have maternal caring instincts to help others...she helps others with medical issues for her life. Queenie...thank you for helping me. it mattered and still matters more than u know.

i believe in all of you. please get well.


Fun Times 7 years ago

just to clarify...i got on this site after being off subs 72 days. its 100 and something now (January 8, 2009...my last sub)...and i still feel it. i thank God for NA and Recovering Addicts who have helped me. And I'm glad merchantofdeath described PAWS...b/c at least now I know that I'm going through what others have before me...and I'm not freaked out or worried about it. I say God...others call it spirituality, willpower...your choice...but God has given me enough energy to do what I need to do...like go to work and hit my NA meetings EVERY DAY. my body might still hit the floor after over 100 plus clean days when i get home...but i do not pickup drugs...i do not even think about it...and i do not have dope dreams. I do believe that the therapeutic value of one addict helping another is without parallel. that's one reason i visit this site.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Day 10:

Guys and Gals I slept 10 hours last night taking one Clonopin. DAre I say that I feeel great- better than 5 years ago. I've also been doing that 7 day detox/ cleansing (or a massive amount of horse pills). We Went shopiing today, bought matching Hollister tops for the whole family (lol), bought my baby birthday stuff (he'll be 2 May 3) and I was also trying on stuff myself- although losing my detox pounds makes me insecure. I was happy before.

Something else I noticed, my face, hands and feet are not swollen as when I was taking my subs and I'm not as aggravated with my husband as I have been for years.

Anyways, Fun Times, the reason I hated myself then was that I was teaching full time and not enjoying my career. Since I was 3, I wanted to be a teacher and I couldn't believe I was dreading going in everyday. I now realize it was the subs and not me. I did alot of soul searching and I guess I was unable to comeup with answers.

Let me tell everyone how I ended up on the stuff and maybe you'll understand:

I was given Vicodin 10s for my teeth after having 4 wisdome teethcut out- 2 1/2 week supply. After the time was up, my stiches became infected and I was still in pain. I happened to mention it to my neightbor who brought me over percs I think. I was naive, didn't realize it was addictice.

Then I ended up dating my neighbor to keep getting percs. Hmm, wonder if he had different motivation? Still, I didn't think I would become addicted. I would tell people that I can't get addicted to anything. Hell, I could smoke a pack of cigs for a month and just stop be done. Or go out drinking, then just stop.

So I went to my doctor told him that I had been taking pain meds for a couple of months (maybe one or two percs a day- not alot at all) and when I stopped, I had a headahe. His suggestion was to start Subs (3 8 milligrams a day!). I didn't know they were addictive. He told me they were not. During a monthly visit, I told him that I didn't feel depressed. He said that I may need to take them for the rest of my life. I trusted our family doctor, now I was to kick butt for taking my life from me.

You see for the 1st year or so, sub was great. I felt happy and energetic. After a year, they start to break you to the point that you fall into survival mode and ignore the beauty of life.

By the I got rid or my crazy next door neighbor and as if fate stepped in, I met my husband, who is a good hard working man andhad his son.

So there's my background... Anyone on myspace?.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Queenie, shorten the name however you want, I don't care... it is long, isn't it... that was the first thing that came to mind, I was in a silly mood - it is VERY hard to let go and let my in-laws parent my children for this long... we don't exactly see eye to eye on things which makes it worse, but I just keep telling myself, I have to get well, and I will be a better parent for it... my poor little girl... she's turning 6 in June, and I've been on some kind of pills practically since she was born... I freaking suck... Anyway, damn Annie - that SUCKS... what the hell is wrong with doctors - I know mine only had to take an 8 hour course to start prescribing suboxone... she doesn't know much about it, and she told me the same thing - it's not addictive.... no problem quitting... doctors don't realize how much we trust them... I noticed the same thing about my fingers and hands, and I've lost 20 lbs like everyone else... I never felt happy or energetic on subs... neither did my husband... but you were taking a lot more than me as well... I was only taking it once a day for a while... I'm so glad you're doing good today, and it's great you got some sleep... shopping? WOW... aren't you glad you didn't give in? Keep looking up... i have more 2 talk about, but I have to go for now more later


Fun Times 7 years ago

Foreverannie...once again...you've helped make my day. First things first- i am not kidding around AT ALL in this particular post...no sarcasm...i mean what i say...and have only good, thought out...intentions for you foreverannie.

I am sooooo glad that you got sleep you desperately needed. FOREVERANNIE, I SWEAR ON MY FATHER'S SOUL, THAT TAKING ONE KLONOPIN IS A VERRRRRRRY INNOCENT THING. I DO NOT ADVISE THAT ANYONE TAKE DRUGS, LET ME BE CLEAR!!! BUT I HAVE TAKEN KLONIPIN...I ABUSED IT LIKE OTHER SUBSTANCES...BUT I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE THAT IF YOU TOOK ONE A DAY FOR A WEEK...IF YOU NEEDED TO...THERE WOULD BE ZERO WITHDRAWALS FROM KLONIPIN. I SAID 1 WEEK. ITS NOT AN OPIATE. DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT...CALL A PROFESSIONAL IF YOU WANT A SECOND OPINION. ASK THEM HOW HARD IT WILL BE TO QUIT TAKING KLONIPIN AFTER TAKING 1 PILL FOR 1 WEEK, GET A SECOND OPINION IF YOU WISH.

I AM WRITING IN BIG LETTERS B/C THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. THE OTHER DAY YOU WERE CONSIDERING USING SUBS. DO NOT EVER, EVER DO THAT! NEVER! BUT IF TAKING 1 SINGLE KLONIPIN WILL HELP SAVE YOUR LIFE...JUST FOR A WEEK...NOT 8 DAYS...IF NEEDED...I IMPLORE YOU FOREVERANNIE...PLEASE DO IT AND THANK GOD...AND FEEL LIKE YOU WERE BLESSED. MOST OF ALL: DO IT GUILT FREE AND WORRY FREE. I SWEAR A PILL A DAY FOR NO MORE THAN A WEEK IS 100% SAFE. i never took tramadol...thus i have no advise about that.

I'm sure we will never meet...but i do care for you. I can empathise with you...and that connection is enough to make me care. That said: I can scarcely fathom the innocence of your story. i am not being dramatic. i have never heard of a more innocently "intended" addiction than yours. I did Heroin for fun. I thought it was cool. I didn't take it for pain. I took it to get high. I was a piece of shit.

You had legitimate pain issues. someone officiously brought you a fairly potent pain killer. you weren't seeking drugs. my God...you only used one or two a day. you weren't using them as a big joke for fun. and the most incredible part of this story: SOME MOTHERFUCKING DOCTOR PUTS YOU ON ENOUGH SUBOXONE TO SATISFY 3 LIFELONG HEROIN SHOOTERS! THAT MOTHERFUCKER...YEAH...NOW I'M MAD. FOREVERANNIE...I WOULD BE THRILLED TO TYPE UP A LEGAL COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM (YOU REPRESENT YOURSELF...PRO SE...FOR FREE) FOR MEDICAL MALPRACTICE, INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, NEGLIGENCE, BREACH OF CONTRACT (WRITTEN OR VERBAL...HE VIOLATED AN IMPLICIT DOCTOR-PATIENT AGREEMENT-TO ACT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST), AND THOSE ARE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD..AND I COULD STILL GO ON. I WOULD OF COURSE TECHNICALLY BE HELPING YOU...I AM NOT CURRENTLY PRACTISING LAW...BUT I CAN GIVE ANYONE IN THE WORLD MY OPINION, HELP (WITHIN CERTAIN PARAMETERS, WHICH I KNOW), AND ASSISTANCE FOR FREE. LET ME REPEAT...I WOULD LOVE TO HELP YOU.

i dont go walking around telling people to sue other people. in fact, i am appalled at how ridiculosly litigous our nation is. THAT SAID-THIS FUCKING DOCTOR SCREWED YOU OVER SO BAD I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE IT!!!! HE FUCKED YOUR LIFE UP ANNIE! IGNORANCE OF THE LAW...OR IGNORANCE OF APPROPRIATE MEDICAL PROTOCOLS/APPROPRIATE MEDICAL ADVICE-IS NOT AN EXCUSE, REASON, DEFENSE, OR ACT THAT ABSOLVES ONE OF THEIR CRIME OR CIVIL LIABILITY.

God i'm angry. 24 milligrams of suboxone will fuck up ANYBODY'S LIFE. PERIOD! HE FUCKED UP YOUR LIFE AND IT DISGUSTS ME. IF IT WERE ME: I DO NOT THINK I WOULD REPORT HIM TO YOUR STATES MEDICAL BOARD...UNTIL I WON MY LAWSUIT. THEY WILL TAKE YOU MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY THEN, BELIEVE ME. THEN YOU CAN STOP HIM FROM EVER DOING THIS TO ANYONE AGAIN. i don't care if he's the nicest guy in the world. i don't care. he has almost destroyed your life...don't allow him to keep doing this to even 1 single person. you can't. someone could have saved you.

i am thinking very clearly right now. trust me in that. this is not a rant. i mean every word and i am choosing my words carefully. this is how I would deal with your situation, if what you said happened to me.

First...you have my email address. garysloane@att.net. USE IT!!!!! any help i give you will always be free...by law i couldn't charge anyone anything if i wanted...i'm not practicing now...but will be soon. i still wouldn't want anything from you ever...except to stop this doctor from his unfathomably insidious practices. Email me and we'll talk.

Never threaten to sue the doctor. it is always so much better when the sheriff SERVES him/her with your Complaint and he realizes...i have been sued...if i don't appear in court within 30 days...WITH MY LEGAL ANSWER TO THE COMPLAINT...I WILL BE IN DEFAULT AND LOSE THIS CASE...AND FOREVERANNIE WILL HAVE A DEFAULT JUDGMENT ENTERED IN HER FAVOR AGAINST ME. he will be sicker than you...i promise you that foreverannie. Now I will brag, but its 100% true: I know from experience. Nobody likes getting sued. Not even me. But I mean this as much as I can mean anything: NOBODY WANTS TO GET HIT WITH A COMPLAINT THAT FUN TIMES (HELPED/ADVISED ON...CMA) PREPARED. REREAD THAT TEN TIMES. MY LAWSCHOOL JUST SUED ME FOR A MISUNDERSTANDING. AS OF TODAY: THEY SUED ME FOR $27,000 plus. AS OF TODAY...I HAVE WON...A JUDGMENT WAS ENTERED IN MY FAVOR. AS OF TODAY...THEY OWE ME $50 B/C I HAD THEIR LAW FIRM SANCTIONED FOR ACTING IN BAD FAITH. AS OF TODAY...MY EMPLOYER WAS SUED FOR VARIOUS BULLSHIT STUFF THAT WE WERE NOT LIABLE FOR, SEVERAL CASES EXCEEDING $3.25 Million. AS OF TODAY...WE HAVE PAID NOTHING. these my dear are very sophisticated cases. i give our litigator my "ideas". and he listens very well.

i don't fuck around when it comes to litigation. add the personal aspect of a doctor destroying lives...and how innocent you are compared to me and other addicts. and add the fact that i understand you had a dream, pursued a phd, and were aspiring to help at risk youths, and are now kicking suboxone...after your dream was a bit derailed....and you have all the ingredients for the fiercest lawsuit that someone couldn't imagine. how much is foreverannie's life worth...BEFORE PUNITIVE DAMAGES? i'll give you a quick answer...more than you are thinking that I'm thinking.

This offer is only good for one singular person-foreverannie. i politely ask that nobody else requests similar help (not that anyone would). Foreverannie-i'm so proud of you. i'm so glad the Klonopin helped. a million dollar wining lottery ticket would probably cheer you up as well. so would making sure that what happened to you never happens to anyone again. when it comes to legal matters...i promise...nobody wants anything to do with me. if i wasn't sure you had an extremely compelling case...i wouldn't have said a word about it. garysloane@att.net. its free. and my absolute pleasure.

PS. 1 a day for a week is harmless. i promise you. take care.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

48 hours no sub...i need a fuckn' benzo....but can i find one....no no ican't ........

blah i feel like shit it sucks all around....i'll prob. end up takin sub but i'm tryin tosee how long i can go........need recommendations drug wise


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

actually i know everything to do i just want a quick fix really but whatever i just want off so hopefully i'll make it through the next couple of days...it annoys me to even type i wish i had cash for that rapid detox shit ya know it is so damn nice out today too it just adds to the depression i'd rather it be rainy out


Fun Times 7 years ago

hey merchant. i have ideas that may be helpful to you. first let me say i am really fucking proud of you. the 48 hour mark is when the shit is the worst...anyone will tell you that...day 2 is the bitch of the bunch.

merchant...if i may ask-specifically what are your symptoms. physically and emotionaly. what was your last dose. and gimme an idea of what is bothering you the most. please...the more info. you enter...the beter advice i could give.

you know me. i'll try to give you good advice that works. i already have ideas. i think i can help you, even a little, maybe a lot.

sweety...specifically...what's going on with you. how are u (and how have u been) eating, sleeping, restless, tired, depressed...anything u can think of is pertinent. please reply. i have ideas, and i want u well.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Queenie, I think I started calling her sub free a long time ago and she hasn't became upset yet-lol. You can just call me Aniie, even though that's not my name and I don't plan on giving my name on this website because my real name is so uncommon that anyone reading this can put the puzzle together and unfortunately things I have admitted could cost me my job!

Sub Free, how are you and your hubby today?

Guys, I swear I feel great- dare I say "cured" after 10 days? No I'm not gonna do that yet.

Fun Times,

I appreciate you sincerity and passion about this- trust me I do, and I have already though about how to keep others from going through what I did. In fact, I had a conversation with my doctor about his mistake. He admits he did wrong, I am currently writing an editorial in a newspaper about the effects of suboxone.

I just don't have it in me to sure anyone. I can't explain to you what type of person I am, but I'm not angry and I can only passively place blame on someone because I am not a naive idiot. I didn't research the drug before taking the med. I liked the way they made me feel at first, so I made the choice to keep taking them. That was my mistake.

In fact, I didn't start doing alot of research untill I met you guys. This website has been a lifesaver for me. In fact, no one could ever make me go to face to face group. To me, that's uncomfortable and somewhat embarrassing to speak to people in person about your problems. I am so suprised that I am benefiting so greatly from this.

Fun Times,

I am an activist. I speak out about Autism (my passion), to parents, at Universities, schools, train teachers, etc.. I even have a website dedicated to Autism.

Maybe one day I'll gather up the courage to speak about this.


Fun Times 7 years ago

FYI: rapid detox is a fucking scam. i did it. i wasted $7500. i aint getting into all the resaons its full of shit. the seizures break your back...your body cannot rebuild itself overnight...and it didn't work. its a fucking urban myth that it does. im living proof. so is my buddy that did it twice.


foreverannie 7 years ago

I did the 7 day Detox from walmart. It comes in a package for 17.97. Today is my best day. Day 10- NO SYMPTOMS!!!!!! I am full of energy. You can get bath stuff for achy muscles at Walmart 4.98. I bought amino acids and L gaurantine.

Last night, since I was up so long, I took 1 Klonopin and 1 Tramadol and I slept like a baby. Can you call your doc about Klonopin 2 tommorrow. THey are prescribed for severe insomnia.


Fun Times 7 years ago

annie...i respect your decision. it's not your job to research a drug before taking it...it's a doctors to research something before prescribing it. i get where u are coming from. if it happened to me...gosh...i'm like you...i don't like blaming anyone for my mistakes. if i think its my mistake. if the suboxone resulted in you losing a limb...would u feel the same way? no matter...you didn't.

i'm settled down now. if your fine now....that's enough to make me happy. i applaud the fact that he understands his mistake...and even more that you are forgiving. you are setting a great example. great job Annie!


foreverannie 7 years ago

i asked earlier and i'll ask again- is anyoe a mysace user? i have a site set up there about autism that you shouls check out

Merchant,

don't freak out girl. Reread my posts if you want. I am pretty detailed about my experiences day to day. So is Queenie. After Day 3, you will see light at the end of the tunnel, your senses will enhance, day 10 and I have NO symptoms and I was taking as little as you towards the end.

Your cravings will go away in a couple of days. The thought of a sub will make you cringe


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

k i just found klonipin....hooray...um chills sweats anxiety depression restless....i'm thinking about sawing my legs off putting them on ice til later.....oh and i want to throw up i keep gagging


foreverannie 7 years ago

Lol about the legs thing Merchant. I felt that way 2 days ago. If you walk around it will stop although I'm sure you don't have energy without sleep. Let the Klonopin knock you out for a few days- then see how you feel. I took Tramadol for leg pain- helped out a whole lot. I think you can order them online. Heck if I lived close buy, I'd bring you over some. Don't forget about the Detox (17.97 Walmart). Get that sh*t out of your system asap.


Fun Times 7 years ago

im reading a current pdr. clonazepam aka Klonopin it says is prescribed for anxiety and panic attacks. since it is a sedative...it will make u sleepy...i'm just telling you what the physican's desk reference says.

tramadol aka ultram (or a generic) is a pain killer. its prescribed to people getting out of joint surgery and cesrean section births. it sounds strong. i've never used that stuff personally. it says it works similar to a narcotic...and can be habit forming, producing mental and physical dependancy. keep that in mind.

I'm actually seing my dr. tommmorow at 2pm. i dont know who u were addresing...but I'll be glad to ask him about this subject . the pdr states that short term therapy of Klonopin (8 weeks or less) is typical. I have several pdrs. this one's the best. it doesn't even give a time table for tramadol.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

k well i have tramadol and i'm getting the klonipin now i have to get motivated tp pick it up.....really the detox works what's in before i blow 20 bucks???


Fun Times 7 years ago

respectfully...i am 1000% for you getting the Klonopin merchant. read what the pdr says about tramadol...its definately going to feel good..i just don't know at what cost to ur well-being. it is non-narcotic. i have used over the counter detox products...and they never ever helped me. never. Klonipin helped a lot. I wouldn't use the over the counter detox if it was free. annie and me just have an honest difference of opinion over its usefulness.

Annie-if merchant was to reread your post...remember what i said before: the recitivism rate for heroin addicts is so high b/c they forget their pain so easily. i am truly gald u feel great today...possibly cured. this is how u felt 35 hours ago...before Klonopin and tramadol:

"How can I go from having a decent day to the worst freaking night of my life!!!! NO SLEEP, achy muscles, blah, blah. I actually started feeling sorry for myself last nigh- something I swore I wouldn't do. My husband is at work (he's on call 24/7) and it took everything out of me to take care of my baby.

"I am soooo ready to give in today guys or am thinking about going to rehab. My mind is raising......"

you took a serious pain kiler (a post surgery pain killer) and acceptable anti-anxiety drug after that...you were writing about soooo giving in and or going to rehab. i question whether tramadol is benefical. one thing i learned the hard way from drugs is that there is NEVER a free ride. anything that nmakes u feel cured after wanting to give in or go to rehab raises a red flag to me. post surgical medication is serious stuff.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Fun Times: You might be right. I definately agree with your theory. I just took 1 last night to help me get through because if I didn't get sleep I would be in rehab right now.

I haven't had anything today or plan on anything tonight. I am going to test that theory on my body and report to you guys in the morning how I feel. But, this might help you get through the hard stuff. And remember, this is coming from someone who has never taken any other drugs besides percs, vicodin, lortabs, and the deadly subs.

I just want Merchant to be successful and not experience what I did.

Merchant, go to Walmart and look through the products. I believe it might help flkush the Sub out of your system quicker.


foreverannie 7 years ago

OK, I did some more research about Tramadol and spoke with a friend of mine who is a Doctor, pediatrition but he still knows his stuff. Yes, Tramadol is presrcibed for mild to moderate pain and one of the most common prescribed in the ER because Docs are hesitate to prescribe opiates theses days since, in his opinion, more addicting. Tramadol can be addictive and probably shouldn't be given to recoveries like ourselves (they are my words), but if you have RLS they should help you get through the worst times in my opinion.

Fun Times: You cannot recommend and addictive drug 1000% then say your not sure about other. Both are addicting after prolonged use :). In the end Merchant, in my opinion, just use them for emergencies and no longer than 1 week


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

thanks for all the feedback guys....i'm a vet i know what's up no worries tramadol is a non opiate and highly addictive like it was an opiate and benzo's i don't particular like so i don't think i'll have a problem i am taking .25 4 times a day for about a week longer like 2 if necassary i just want off subs and i'll b good i know me very well i went to my na friend and my cousin is crashing here tonight so that'll help out tonight but tomorrow i'll b alone for a while so you fuckers better be online ;)


Fun Times 7 years ago

foreverannie...i'm pulling for you. Both Queenie (who I have a big crush on...and just felt like telling everyone for no reason) and myseif broke down and took a little something around the same time you did. I needed a break Annie...i was detoxing from 8 to zero...i did read stuff about a "ceiling effect" that said kicking 8 and 2 was about the same...and I'm pretty convinced that whoever wrote it didn't try them both. I did. 2 was easier. 1 was easier than that. zero is fucking zero...nuff said.

I digressed. so Queenie and I both did a little something to break the fall. i was at my wits end kicking from 8mg, really proud, but I was dyin" So i thought about it, and made what i consider after many days on zero a smart decision. i took 2mgs after being on 8 to 0 for a week, i felt a lttle guilty...but it was a respite i realized...one that i needed. in the following month a took 2 more 'little breaks'. and have over 100 days since then.

I fully condone and believe in giving yourself a break after hitting zero for a week or more and if your mind and body are screaming STOP! I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE!" time to let yourself relax a bit.

hey...we didn't get hooked in a day or a week or a year. we can be a little patient with ourselves with getting clean. Queenie's post awhile ago and mine show that as long as the "little bit/tiny break" we give ourselves remains just that...a tiny break...everything works out fine. be honest with thyself. We each have months on zero, and I just got through talking to her. We laugh so much togather. My best friend assured me that I never laughed this much before. Things are getting so much better.

I think you made a smart move annie. your body and mind deserved a break. I used to by every detox product known to man before urine drops. always as directed. i failed everytime. they never got drugs out of my system. but as i said...we agree to disagree.

Im proud of you annie-stay the course.

and Queenie...i hope people don't get sick of hearing it...but I'm so happy whenever we text or talk. u have a tremendous sense of humor. and to laugh my ass off with you after still having some ruff days (3.5 months clean after a couple decades feels good...but i'm still getting better)...is priceless to me.


Fun Times 7 years ago

merchant-now that the fuckin spirit. I'll fucking be here...for awhile for sure. i gave u my email address...shoot me your contact info and we could just chat in real time without the world knowing our twisted secrets. You have a boyfriend, so all is well. I'm gonna try and marry Quennie, so all is well. we can just bullshit about our metal/punk days or talk about nietzsche.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

i'm gonna try to get throught the next couple of days i think i should be okay i'm a pretty tough but hey the ceiling affect doesn't have anything to do w/detox it has to do w getting high anywhere between 24-32mg your done your body won't use the rest and sends it on its way methadone doesn't have this.....that's why you never really hear of people on more than 24-32 mg of subs.


Fun Times 7 years ago

annie-ohhh in fact i can recommend one only: to wit: i recommended one addictive drug 1000% and not the other for a very simple reason. i actually used the one i recommended, not the other (so how could i recommend it...i just read the pdr and said it may be worth considering?). it doesn't always work...but i try not to talk out of my ass. lol!

I used heroin too. it's addictive. i don't recommend that one right now either ;)

merchant-u are getting funny. i like reading your pots alot. as for the ceiling effect-i agree with your last statement...not when u wrote

"that is a website regarding the potency of subs....no joke...jumping off at 2mg or 8mg...no difference...subs has a ceiling effect"

i didn't agree with that one (your post from 4 days ago). lol. its all good. thanks for your email. i know we are gonna have a riot if/when we chat. u seem like your in a great mood..and that's cool. i believe u are a vet and u know exactly what u r doing...anything non-opiate is cool, as long as you don't go fucking crazy and take like 20 pills at once for the next week. lol.


queenie 7 years ago

a couple bags of dope.......20dollars a few oxys.....30 dollars feeling healthy, alive, able to eat and sleep......priceless! I just sent you an email fun times. Merchant you can do it! this is where you implement that tough girl attitude. I know have appox. 4 hours to sleep for 12 hours of work.......Darn!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

k well now i'm up again and listening to music on my ipod and typing you fuckers....i'm sure everybody is sleeping but well we all know i can't i'm serving this sentence of junkie limbo hell bullshit so when all you guys wake up tomorrow i'm sure i'll have all types of dumb ass shit written....for your entertainment of course....i am okay though i feel fucked but i'm okay just to fill ya's in music is a huge help....tool good stuff helps me not feel so fucked....my stomach is all crazy so i'm just chillin w/some watermelon italian ice....i'm hooked on that shit....


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal.All this pain is an illusion.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

i am not feeling well at all my fuckin muscles are kiiing me


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Been reading all the posts for days, finally decided to speak. I'm almost 48. It's 2:43 a.m. as I look at the clock and I have to work in about 4 hours. My addiction started out about 10 years ago. Started with Hydro's for severe migraines and shoulder surgery. I was playing hockey at the time and hurt my back. Doc gave me Soma. What a mixture Hydro's and Soma. Over the next two years my tolerance went up. I was taking 25 1500 Hydro's with 10 Soma's at a time. Needless to say I became an ambarrassment to my family, passing out in my food and what not. My wife finally talked me into getting into a rehab. That lasted a little over a week and then my new drug of choice was Oxy's & Soma. A month or so after this I flew back to Michigan to deer hunt. I once again embarrassed myself in front of my friends. The next day I was sitting in my blind and lost control. I left and drove to my dad's house where I went to the bedroom and stayed in there flipping all day long. That night I told my dad i needed to get back home so I called the airlina and beeged them to change my flight. I was lucky the person I spoke to changed it and the next day I was headed back to CA. I spent the next 6 weeks sitting in the living room chair staring at the T.V. I would get up and pop all my pills and just be a zombie. My wife would cry and my brother would cry and tell me "you look like an 80 year old man and your going to be dead soon. I was now also manically depressed when I wasn't stoned. On new years day I drove myself to the emergency room and checked myself in. Immediately they injected me with subutex. One hour later I felt like a new man. 4 days later I was releases with a script for suboxone. (4) 2mg pills per day. Me being a addict decided to take all 4 at once and I would actually get the euphoric felling for hours. My new life had started. I went back to work still fighting deppression but when I took my sub I was good. After A couple months I decided I would skip every other day so I could take 16 mg per day all at once. Life was great, i was a new man and everyone noticed it. Fast forward 5 years. 4/7/09. I've been thinking about getting off of the sub. There was no euphoria anymore but i never increase above the 16mg every other day. So on the 7th i got a cold and left work to go home to bed. Thought this is a great time to get off it thinking it might take 5 or 6 days of w/ds but I was sick anyhow. Sleep 16 hrs a day for the first 3 days. Weekend comes and i'm felling fine other than the cold. Sunday night comes and i'm going back to work tomorrow. I get rls and do not sleep. Make it thru work but am getting sicker. From this point on i'm in a living hell. Yesterday I had to take a .5 mg because I thought i was going to snap. Today is day 20 and I am feeling sicker than ever. I have to work 10 to 11 hrs per day and everyone knows i'm sick. I've lost a good 10 lbs. If this doesn't start tapering off soon I'm not sure i'll make it. I've always been one tough sob but this is taking me to my limit. I should have probably tapered down instead of just jumping off such a high dose. My doctor also never explained how bad the w/ds would be. My symtoms are: goose bumbs, yawning, sneezing, RLS, creepy crawly skin everywhere, stomach discomfort and the squirts, insomnia, uncontrollable spirts of crying. no energy. I'm going to try like hell to get through this, i would hate to throw away 15 days of heavy suffering.


Fun Times 7 years ago

merchant u pscyopath...are u there? (psychopath is a compliment). alright....let me make an off the board suggestion. the pain aint going anywhere...let it be for a minute.

would u consider telling yourself..."fuck this...i need a break...i'm taking 2mgs today....at once...i'm not getting any detox gold star by adherring to this painful plan"?

if so...take 2mgs just today and chill. i promise you...the pain aint going anywhere...it will be back tommorrow or the next day. give urself a break today.

annie-is all well?

plaininsane-you've earned your name. i kicked off 8mg a day. that was plain insane. 16 mg's every other day...what did you have...dr. fucking kevorkian...j/k...that was annie's doctor. Anyway...i said fucked all that and did the 2mg to 1mg to zero thing. Fucking 8mg split me ib half. it freaked my fucking body out. I'd try a more reasonable taper.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Plain Insane,

Thanks for your story! It's probably really tough for you because you didn't taper, but your 20 days in, so DON't go back. Your body needs rest to heal so my suggestion is to get a Klonopin or Ambien and just take for a day or so to sleep, relax- no longer.

Then write us and let us know how your doing. In fact write us anytime!

Merchant, are you off Subs completely. If so, Fun times, shame in you for telling her to take more. She only has a few more days till she feels better. Merchant, don't listen to him-lol. GET THE SUBS OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM!

Today, day 10 I think

Guys I feel even better than yesterday. I woke up with a slight headache which probably came from the 7 day cleansing I got at Walmart. I feel happy, healthy, and ready to go out and enjoy my sunshine.

I did not take anything FUN Times last night, no Klonopin, no TRamadol, etc. and I slept 7 hours!!!!! I woke up a couple of times with a slight ache in my arms, but ignored it and went back to sleep. I just took one the night before. I think my body was dying for sleep day 8. That's what makes one heal. THe more sleep, the better you are.

Merchant,

get the 7 Day cleanse if you can. A womans body is chemically and physically different than a mans so what didn't work for funtimes may work for you. Definately worth 20 dollars.

Guys, if I feel better tommorrow, I am going to shout out "I'm over it, 11 days"!!!


Fun Times 7 years ago

annie...this is one case (of many) where i am glad to be wrong. i'm glad you are well. hopefully cured. that would be cool.

as for my advice to merchant...it's just what i did...to get where i am. she's a big girl...she knows how her body feels and what she can take. u were 1 day away from rehab lady...i dont want her in a rehab. rehabs are not gonna help.


foreverannie 7 years ago

I know Fun Times ;)


PlainInsain 7 years ago

Foreverannie,

I just stopped work for lunch. I read your comment. I took 25mg of Ambien CR last night and did not sleep one minute. My body feels like its about to collapse. I called me MD but he's off on Mondays. I asked the nurse if she could get the oncall to give me something, told her the ambien has no effect on me. I have realized how badly i've screwed up my brain. If i'm lucky I've slept on average 2 hours a night since I started this and the sleep comes in 20 minute intervals then its back awake tossing and turning or watching TV. I'm trying like hell but i'm almost broke, if I could only sleep 6 or 8 hours I know it would help me combat the way I feel. sleep depravation also f's up your mind. I had a meeting this morning and it was very hard to keep it together. well everyone thanks for the comments. I'll keep in touch. Back to work I go!!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well around 330am i took .25 i don't feel 100% but i'm happy about that i only wanted to get the edge off....it did i was goin crazy so i don't think i really set myself back and i'm feelin blah today like a zombie and detoxing but fuck it ....went to a meeting this afternoon....passed the time now i'm in this hot ass apt.

annie i'm on klonipin so i'll try the detox after i'm done w/that and cleanse my body or whatever....right now juice eating and well just not fuckin dying is on my top priority list.

i'm hoping to get throught the next 72hrs w/out subs at this point if i can get past that i'll fuckin jump for joy. but as for today no sub and tomorrow no sub. i could make it to the 48 hour mark an hopefully what i did will make things easier.


queenie 7 years ago

Plaininsain, if you can take off work do it. You are in for a battle. Pepcid ac is good for the stomach and icy hot for the legs. Drink alot of water. Thats a pretty addict friendly hospital you went to that gave you iv subutex a script and send you out the door.? Wow! I have never seen addicts accommodated so well in a hospital setting. Shame on them. In the long run they did'nt help you at all. They simply prolonged your misery. Just mentally prepare yourself and tell your self your stronger than that pill. Merchant hang in there and i dont think after a couple of days you need to be taking subs since thats what your trying to get off of. Dont listen to that knuckle head!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

i know what's up i also no skipping days is a taper thing if i can get through it great that's what i want but i'm not gonna kill myself either this is an 8 year run it didn't take overnight to get here so it won't take over night to get off either....ideally yes i want to not take anything but if i'm at my wits end i just might but i'm okay right now and taking the .25mg didn't even make everything okay it made the pain manageable

thanks though i appreciate all the feedback really i do


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Plaininsane - you might want to try Lunesta... I will admit, in the beginning I was taking up to 40mg of regular Ambien throughout the night... and now I have weened myself down to 5mg, and tonight will be my first night without any... but I think I will be ok.... I'm on day 31... my husband slept almost 10 hours last night without any Ambien, and he's been taking it since day 2 also... I'm not saying take it the whole time like we have or anything, but I think it did really help... taking it a week straight won't hurt... Lunesta made us way more groggy... I, personally, am still waking up every couple of hours, but I go back to sleep after a while, I'm not wide awake and wired in the middle of the night anymore... I also have a cold right now, and I have been coughing a lung up at night so that's waking me up... oh I also wanted to say that the Ambien didn't even really start making me sleepy until week three or so - I know I was taking too much, and I was still wide awake, but it eventually started working correctly I think... and now I'm quitting it, don't want to get addicted to that or anything - you can overdose on it also so be careful... but I definitely agree about the sleep... it will drive you freaking crazy... I agree with Annie though, I would try not to take anymore subs... quit now or quit later... you still gotta quit... remember, that's what your brain is wanting... SUBS SUBS SUBS... do you really want to go through this all over again?? It's rough and tough, but hell, 20 days? Come on, man... you'll feel SOOO much better if you can get some sleep... regular Ambien is waaaay cheaper than Ambien CR... hang in there... you and Merchant gotta come through this...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Damn... some posts popped up while I was typing... I guess me and Queenie have the same opinion on not taking any more subs, but I can also see where you're coming from Merchant... I hope it helps instead of prolonging your misery... think about this though: if you were to put all the days together that you have been suffering and will suffer inbetween taking the subs... what day would you be at if you didn't take any? I mean, you already tapered pretty damn far, a lot farther than most people can stand... and it's still that bad for you? Is it worth it? I, personally, think you're low enough that it's not going to make a big difference in tapering anymore - you're just going to prolong your suffering - this comes from quite a few people I've talked to... we couldn't even take tapering below 4mg, and you're down to .25 - sounds like you're stronger than we are, and we made it so damn girl, you can do it... Ok, said my opinion... I'm definitely not going to judge you if you keep tapering, you know your body better than me so do what you gotta do... I just had to say how I feel... like I said in an earlier post, if I had stuck to my tapering plan, I'd only be down to .25 instead of being on day 31 clean... you just have to bite the bullet and flush the pills... if they're around, you'll take 'em... good luck with whatever you decide to do... we're here to support you either way...


foreverannie 7 years ago

Plain Insane,

I know how you feel. I taught school on no sleep and may have very well went crazy at times. If this makes you feel better, I'm at day 10 and I think I'm done withdrawaling. My body is so peaceful, that I can't see it going back. If something else happens then I'll be sure to let all my detox buddies on here no. I want to chronicle my experience as openly and honestly as possible. If you have money, 17.97, get the 7 day cleanse. And get ahold of Klonopins. Take one or 2. I personally think they are much better than Ambien. Your doc will probably prescribe a weeks worth to you. Klonopins may be a nerve pill, bujt they are prescribed for insomnia. I have a pill bottle that says "take on nightly for Insomnia". I took one once, slept, woke up and my withdrawals were gone. Take a Multivitamin, Protiens, and Amino Acids. You can do this. Keep posting all day if neccessay. THis is a great group, full of sensitive, strong women! Everyone helped me get through it...Oh yeah, and Funtimes.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Sub Free,

You are so right with the last post, advice to Merchant. I spent months just taking a crumb of Sub. Now that I think back, I was miserable the whole time, night sweats (I thought I was going through early menopause and I am extremely young for that), bad moods, unemotional, headaches, etc. See, my body wasn't getting enough to make me feel normal and I wasn't willing to take 8-12 mgs any more. I was guilty of prolonging the inevitable. Well said girl!


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Thanks Annie - point is, you're gonna have to pay up sooner or later, and YOU ARE GOING TO BREAK DOWN... emotionally, physically, mentally.... it's inevitable..... but if you can make it through that day or two, it gets better... I haven't said anything about how I'm feeling, but on day 31 it's ok.... only thing left for my husband is his energy level... my anxiety is down, my neck, shoulders, and legs are not hurting anymore, and sleep is ok... there are definitely up and down days, but I am soooo glad to be off... was it worth all the suffering? HELL YEAH... was all the good times I had on pills worth all this suffering... HELL NO...


foreverannie 7 years ago

AGREE with that. I remember everyone telling me not to give in at my 8 day when I was nuts and because of you guys, I didn't. How many hours are you sleeping now. I slept almost 8 without any sleep meds last night. My aches and pains are gone. I feel such release, but I'm not going to try to do to much, even though I want to do everything.

Your husband definately had a differernt detox, sleeping alot. I would consider that great.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Yeah, mine was rougher than his... I can't really judge how well I'm sleeping until I get over this cold... main thing is, I wake up, but I can go back to sleep instead of being wired... laid down at 10 pm, and I didn't get up out of the bed until 7 am, but like I said, I was up a little during the night because of my coughing and breathing... but the best thing is if I do wake up, I'm not lying there in pain, wired, with my anxiety running high or anything anymore so that helps a lot... it doesn't bother me to lay there for an hour before I go back to sleep... hubbie's totally different though, he only woke up once last night, and that was because I was coughing, and he went right back to sleep so it's all good... I can't complain, knowing what everyone else is going through. I'm so glad you're feeling so good, that's awesome... like I said before, we had pretty good days on day 11 and 12... went back down after that, but I don't think we were feeling as good as you so you might not... the worst, worst is over for sure - Plaininsane: I would agree with Annie on the Klonopine - in the beginning, Valium helped me better than Ambien, just be careful... I only took it two nights, but I slept 4 hours straight which was a godsend then...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Oh - Annie: I don't want you to take what I said the wrong way - stay positive, you could and might be through it all - I'm just being honest, but if you stay in good spirits, that helps a lot so don't pay attention to what I said about going back down...


foreverannie 7 years ago

I'm not Sub Free, that's why I'm going to give it a couple of days. But as of now, I have NO WD Symptons. I just pray I am that way I can give hope to those who may think it will take forever

Where's Fun Times, I figured he would be writing on here defending himself fiercely-lol/ Must be tied up.


Fun Times 7 years ago

i'm just happy to be alive and i agree with everyone!


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I was wondering the same thing about FunTimes... FunTimes I want you to know that yesterday I read some of your earlier posts that I hadn't read before, and I laughed my ass off... keep it coming...


Debi 7 years ago

I am really scared I have been on subs for a month I will be picking up my last script and my insurance is ending at the end of April, I kind of wish I had stayed on the pain meds right now, I will break them in half untill they are gone and after 5 days go back on vicodan it is much cheaper. It just seems like you cant win.....


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well i was blah all day but i was busy out and about in society.....went to a fuckin meeting....it sucked but i ran into somebody i knew he has 5 yrs clean that was cool then b/f daughter and i went for spring water icecream and park i just can't wait til i can feel connected to life again


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

ya i get what you guys are sayin i do and hopefully i'll be done soon enough i'm almost at the 24 hour mark and hopefully i'll sleep through it but it's not like it's messing me up i still feel sick just more tolerable...i would be so happy to have this done with and all the in and out suffering adds up it could of been worse if i didn't taper thanks for all the feedback it's appreciated it really is...i'm so damn tired right now i can just pass out in the ac...........can't wait...tomorrow won't be that much fun but i have stuff to do so hopefully that'll help me out who knows i'll just focus on one day at a time or whatever


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Merchant: good to hear from ya... I totally agree with the taper - if you can handle it, which you could... but I was talking more about the suffering you've had since you stopped & the days you will suffer from now on inbetween subs... I just feel like taking more starts the suffering over for most people.. not all... some can taper down to every three days or so... or I've even heard of 4 days without withdrawals... i dunno... everyone's different... sorry you feel like shit... I feel your pain in your posts...


foreverannie 7 years ago

Debbie,

If you are in Chronic Pain for a medical reason, get advice from a doctor. Otherwise get rid of the Subs. They are the devil. Taper down to less than 1 milligram, thengo through the withdraws. Read our suggestions on how to get through them, then do it!

You don't have to live your life addicted to meds. I'm 10 or 11 days clean and feel great after being on Subs for 4 years.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

no chronic pain....i'm a junkie that's my plague


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

the plan as of now is to sleep as much as i can and tomorrow i'm going w/my friend from na til b/f gets home then deal w/life til then....i hear ya about suffer and tapering and how it works either way i'm just gonna try and push it but if it's rough at least i can c how long i can go ya know..........thanks

oh and no dr. i'm down to .25mg and it's all me


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

haww-chew


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Here I go... first night without sleep aid in over a month... I did take 2 Nyquil and 3mg Melatonin - don't know if it will help... we'll see.... hope everyone sleeps well..... night night


Fun Times 7 years ago

merchant sing it with me;

go.go.go.go.go.go.go.go

fight the power, fight the power, fight the power c'mon c'mon

fight the power, fight the power, fight the power yeahh. fight the power, fight the powers that be!

i show u my gun, myuzzi wrighs a ton, merchant be public enemy number one...one, one one!

feeling unispired...think i'll lite a fire. everybody run...merchants gotta gun. she thinks im kinda neat...then she tells me i'm a creep.

k-that was my inspirational music. merchant- go kick some fuckin ass. nothin for nothein but i saw my doctor today. the old german type...why did you gain 11 pounds since our last visit 6 months ago. "listen fucker...u really wanna know...lol." anyway, he's cool. i told him i had to quit smoking (a pack or so a day). he looked all crazy at me...put the stethescope to my lungs, had me breathe deeply....and told me a had lungs like a fucking thouroughbred.

long story short...i haven't smoked since 130pm. i quit. fuck...now that the suboxone, (and other shit) is over...i'm bored. i need to be fighting something. cigarettes...batter up! your time has come. i wanna suffer at least a lttle bit with you guys. i feel its my duty...and i'll be healthier. good luck all.

PS. subfree...yeah yeah...i love compliments. you are very cool. i can't call you sweetheart or Queenie will get jealous...women. lol. i am extremely proud of you. really. thanks for the kind words. it feels good to hear them.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

so i have a question is anybody still awake???


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

so what day would i technically b on?


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

so impatient i am...i am dreading tomorrow i feel like it's gonna suck worse than today i'm suck a fuckin pestimist aren't i ....i went to a meeting and i really had no interest in what they had to say they all just bored me mundane same ol same ol ...it's like where's the insight where is the profound revelation.....nope just some dumb ass mother fuckers complaining or quoting the na text....shit i can read....what are you thoughts on it how does it apply to you or do you disagree....better yet ;) i'm gonna go to fill up time and space right now what else can i do but damn they are lame as fuck....at least where i am they are................anybody out there yet???????????????????????????????????/


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

so funtimes....the caffiene...ya....lower the intake my friend....songg them of the night......the ramones.....i wanna be sedated...hee hee


Fun Times 7 years ago

merchant...hate me today...hate me tommorrow...but i'm just saying:

really...quit fuckin crying already. i support u but shit...this is fuckin ridiculous. i know u are hard. fuckin act like it. dig...embrace the pain. its a once in a lifetime show. enjoy it for all its worth. fuck. i miss fighting shit so im quitting smoking. it aint as bad as subs...but its something.

noone wants to hear anyone complain. i promise u that. u don't want to hear yourself complain. yeah the world sucks and life in unfair. SUPRISE MOTHERFUCKER. just kinda kidding. but you better get tough lady. for real. you know...i (or anyone shouldn't have to tell you).

this aint no fuckin picnic lady. quit acting like its supposed to be one. really doe. this is fierce shit. sink or swim.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

y do i keep missing everybody? i tell ya....i'm def tired and feel like jello w/ all the fun pains and allergies i've had a fever the last couple of days aswell.......i'm so tired i just want to sleep i need a fuckin lullaby


Fun Times 7 years ago

ohhh..i was saying..i want everyone here off subs. period. ladies...if i'm wrong about the "you better have a positive and hard attitude in life" tell me. i just know how a man has to act. i am a guy.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

dude i know life isn't sunshines ande fuckin rainbows and thanks for the lecture but it wasn't nec. and i don't care how hard somebody is......this sucks and i have a non addict b/f who is harder than you so trust me i know the fuckin deal....no sympathy go it alone you did it to yourself blah blah blah....no fuckin shit thanks for the update.....i don't get offended by you so don't worry....i'm just in a world of hurt and will be for a minute so what do you want ....wanna talk about say the yankees? or how it was so nice and sunny? and no i'm not angry and pissed generally just now i'm annoyed at myself being in this situation and personally anybody coming off wants to act like oh well i did da da da and life is great isn't really comin off them this shit is my cryptenite and it's been a long time since i've had to deal w/it so yes it fuckin sucks ......hey i'm makin an effort i've been goin out doin water trying to feel real about it but it's not there and i'm not happy about that and when i 'm done and back to being me i'll fuckin post happy go lucky shit.....venting doesn't make me weak at least in my eyes i'm just sayin what's going on with me....it passes the time and helps to keep shit in perspective....am i bitter? fuck ya! if you can find somebody happy to detox i wanna meet them...really.

aside from this bullshit conversation.....am i on day 3 or back to 1? what's your take on that....i actually was waiting for your dumbass so you can help contemplate this with me.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well


Fun Times 7 years ago

see...you called me a dumbass...so i'm guessing no hard feelings. no sarcasm..i know thats "good" coming from you.

honestly angel....it sucks becuse i dig you, your fascinating, but I can't really ever successfully gauge what i should say to you. i think we are both too opiniaited, high strung, and hostile...yet caring. i wind up hurting not helping u, and i dont wanna do that. honestly...fuck what day u r on. this is "how to save a life time"...there are no fucking rules...except be honest to thineself. Yeah...don't stat back on alot of subs. after that..fuck it...survive. i dont care how many days anyone has. i care how are they today.

i was happy to detox. u should have seen it...i wish i taped that fuckin kick. i laughed through this shit. most of the time. on the floor laughing...no sleep..in the dark. i don't need to sound hard to folks i'll never meet. your boyfriends harder than me..so you have met someone pretty fucking hard. anyone harder than me laughs through this shit. really. it aint no super violent H kick. and it aint no ultra rapid detox. fuckin Fun Times.


Fun Times 7 years ago

mercahnt..u wanna talk...i'm here. we can talk. non-hostile. lets go. i invited u too chat..no reply. talk here...anywhere. cmon. please.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

chat...what where


FunTimes 7 years ago

my email address is garysloane@att.net. use yahoo IM. say Hi. lets talk. or use msn messener. im on both. SAY HI!!!!


FunTimes 7 years ago

chat at yahoo im or msn messenger...i already sent u invites...garysloane@att.net SAY HI already!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

dont u have aim


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

yahoo is being retarded and i'm already signed into aim express dude just go there


Fun Times 7 years ago

for u...i will discover aim. hang tight.


Fun Times 7 years ago

ok...im on aim...what the hell user id am i looking for? i went with Sloane 007.


foreverannie 7 years ago

April 28th- Day 13

Still going strong. I did stay home from work today but thiswasbecause my toddler was so sick. I woke up a couple of times during the night, but just because again he was sick. No sleep meds for 2 days straight. In fact, I am not taking anything at all besides the 7 day cleansing. I noticed a slight dull sensation in both of my arms last night, but it was totally bearable- kinda like a slight cough compared to the flu.

I did wake up with a headache again,but went away after water and coffee. My friend the doctor says it may be the 7 day cleansing- if you do that, you have to stay hydrated and take vitamins because while it is good for you, the cleansing flushes out alot of your vitamins. I am going to test my theory by drinking a huge glass of water before bed.

My mind feels clear and strong. I feel normal like a huge weight has been lifted. I hope all of you can get there soon!


Fun Times 7 years ago

Good job Annie!!!! Listen...you were a 4 year nut like me....and i just want to say that i think you have an inspiring message to everyone!

You're a strong, reasonable, woman. You did something that breaks people. Great job!!!!!


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Day 21, another sleepless night. Oncall Dr. did not call back yesterday. I'm sicker than I ever imagined I could be. I really believe I may collapse at anytime. I'm at work and don't believe I can make it thru the day here. When will this start turning the other way??? Last time i took any sub was 3 days back and it was .50mg. I'm determined not to take anymore but I believe it may kill me. It takes every bit of strength I have just to stand up. I'm freezing and I'm wearing a heavy sweater and a jacket. I woudn't recommend anyone to go from 16mg every other day and then jump to 0. In a normal month I would take 240mg, in the last 3 weeks I've taken a total of 5mg. and no more than .5mg every 3 days. I'm going to try the 7 day cleansing. Thanks for the advice and votes of confidence from everyone. I'll keep in touch and let everyone know how its going.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

lol....i went "running" around my hall way laid on the couch and passed out for a couple of hours. i just got off the phone w/my na friend and i really don't feel like going out but i think i might not sure. foreverannie i'm happy to hear your doing well i hope my detox is like yours. i know tonight will suck but i'm gonna just take whatever to try and knock myself out. i don't even kno wwhat else to say write no w i'm like a ball of painful mush....


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

ghfggl ug


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

well my na friend is coming to get me i 'm gonna hang out w/her until later or even crash there not sure yet i feel so bad though it's my b/f bday and his parents are throwing a party tonight and i'm a no show i could take sub s and b normal but i'm not i'm just gonna get through this make it up to him later....i know he'll be so much happier when i'm normal...it sucks that he doesn't really understand i have t olike do the thinking for the two of us w/this he thinks y n ot just stay on subs and be "normal" but i can't stay in this prison any longer and im not myself....this is temporary and needs to be done sofuck it......it just sucks feeling guilty on top of all this other chaos my friend has a computer and what not so i'll check in


foreverannie 7 years ago

Plain Insane,

Suggestion: Do NOT give in and take a sub. You will set your progress back. Did you get any Sleep Meds, Nerve Meds, etc? If you feel like your gonna pass out, go to emergency room asap. They may give you sleep pills or something for you. Just do not take suba, do not let it have control. You have been 3 days without. It will get better each day. Trust, me I experienced the same symptoms you have.

I'll b reading this hub later to see how things go.


Fun Times 7 years ago

I did a you tube search and there is this guy (Dr. JUnig) who i think posts on drugs.com and he set up a website call subfree.com.

he seems pretty knowledgeable. maybe it wil help someone.


Fun Times 7 years ago

my apologies. the blog is suboxone-talk zone.com


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Yeah, that website is where I learned how to taper & take subs a different way... Y'all... today is not my day... I'm breaking... I don't know what the hell is wrong with me... I'm extremely depressed... about everything... I can't stop crying... suck it up, I know...


PlainInsane 7 years ago

subfreechickadee,

Hang in there, it will pass. I went thru the same thing a couple days back. You need to do something to get your mind off it. Hang in there, please don't give in.

foreverannie,

I'm not going to take any subs. I really don't care if it kills me, I'm not taking any. My doc is calling me in a script to help me sleep. I asked him for clonopin, I believe he will give it to me. I'll let you know tonight when I get home from work.


Fun Times 7 years ago

hey...hey ...hey there subfreechicakadee. listen...please. i had fucked up days after being off subs for over 3 months. I was asking people in Recovery like "hey...whats up with this bullshit...i'm supposed to be getting better). they were talking some shit about a honeymoon period...dragging a brother down.

subfree...i will say this. and it comes from experience...straight out of the Beatle's (i'm sure of this one Annie ;) ) Helter Skelter:

"well i get to the bottom i go back to the top of the slide, i get to the top and i go for a ride, i get to the bottom and i get up again!"

week 3 or so was great. honestly great. week 5 or 6 was less great. go fucking figure. but one thing is for sure...i aint doin that bullshit again. that kick was my once in a lifetime fun time (the violent H w/ds broke me in half...so did the skipping out of the meth clinic...i wasn't that hard).

so now i just take things a day at a time. i tell myself everyday at work (like now) fuck this...i'm leaving early. but i don't. i want to very very bad. then i'm cool. i'll hang out...do all i can..."and if the mountains....fall in the sea....let it be....it aint me".

you'll feel cool by nitefall angel. and i truthfully told someone what i'm gonna tell you...i haven't cried in so many years i cant count. tears are a gift. i couldn't cry when my dad died. that made me feel guilty. so tears are natures way of releasing stress. you are exactly where i was this time awhile ago. and u have support from your husband. you're doing great and you'll be fine.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Sub Free,

Whats wrong? Is it WD or something else happened. Are you having pains, craving, etc., etc.

Yea for you. Now that you have your script, you'll get through it. Just remember, I am under 2 weeks and I feel that I have beat the nightmare. I guess I'm one of those statistics that Queenie was talking about 90% give in within a few days. Thats OK, I've beat other statistics and so will you!


foreverannie 7 years ago

That second paragraph was direct to Plain Insane. I pray the meds get you through it :)


mamasawn 7 years ago

The way I understand it, If you take a very high dose of oxycontin or opiates, that they recommend you to get on methadone first, and then suboxone. Can anyone tell me the milli it would take to be recommended for methadone or what the limit for suboxin?


foreverannie 7 years ago

Mamasawn,

I will never recommend either lol, but that depends on your dosage of Oxy's etc. Suboxone may be ok to get you off of the other stuff for a very short period of time, but taper asap. No matter how great Methadone or Subs make you feel in the beginning, they will eventually break you down if you stay on them.

If you want a better opinion, give us a little more info like what drugs your on, how long, the dosage, are they prescribed, etc.


Fun Times 7 years ago

One more inspirational lyric from my man Ce-L, for u subfree:

" you get up...you get down...but you've come to far to start fuckin around"

ur doing it girl. watch. nitefall. u'll be great. as them gym shoe kids say when them peoples pass by: "All's well!"


foreverannie 7 years ago

Fun Times,

keep the inspiration coming! Where are you Sub Free? Usually you answer quickly??? Anyway, keep us informed girl!


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Fun Times... I luv you man... thanks everyone... I broke down, I let it all out, made some wild, passionate love (it really does help)... and now I'm better.... my racing thoughts just got the better of me... and I am so thankful for this hub... laughter is the best medicine (Thanks Fun Times)... I felt so petty writing about my little bullshit I'm going through while others are suffering big time, but I had to get some feedback, and I'm glad I did... I'm caring about things I haven't cared about in a long time... I think my brain is coming alive again... with care comes worry, but I'll take it... I had a long talk with hubbie about everything that was bothering me.... didn't want to bore y'all with that... Oh and Annie - yeah, I hurt A LITTLE, but that wasn't my problem... no cravings, just uncontrollable emotions... worrying about shit too much... Fun Times, thanks... knowing that someone else goes through this after this long really helps... it all helped... you did your good deed for the day... thanks for caring


foreverannie 7 years ago

Sub Free,

So glad you are feeling better. Sounds like you have a great relationship with your hubby like I do with mine. Even taking away the Sub addiction, I still have emotional issues. They seemed to get better with age. Now that I'm 30, I don't sweat the stuff small- by the way that's a good book. Reading anything really heals the soul. I am getting my summer reading list together. Anyone have suggestions?

My husband and I have been cleaning this evening. I used to take such pride in my house- keeping it clean and such. But the Subs took that away from me. While I was taking them, all I did was work, take care of my kids, and sit on the couch wishing my life was different.

Even though my energy level isn't great (better than when on Subs) I am gaining pride in my house again. It's not much, but we are fortunate in many ways. Now that my mind is clearer, I wonder how did I let myself get that way, so yes Sub Free, with happiness sometimes comes lingering painful thoughts.

Good Luck :)


Fun Times 7 years ago

you did your good deed for the day by sharing those kind words. i mean that. i say harsh and impulsive stuff at times...well intentioned or not...so when i hear something really sweet like you just said coming from someone who's being a brave son of a bitch like me through what can be franky really unpleasant shit....IT MAKES MY MOTHERFUCKIN' DAY!

i knew u'd be cool subfree. i knew u didn't come this far to start fuckin around. and i knew it was a matter of hours b/c u caught your second wind and felt better.

subfree....each day...it gets better. i had a bad few days here and there....but a fuckin lot more great ones as times passes. so will u. GREAT FUCKING JOB!!!!!! tell hubby (i'm sure u did,..how important he is to you). us men need to hear that shit ;)


Fun Times 7 years ago

alrigghttt....now for my silly kid shit: at least i'll amuse myself. ;)

merchant...i took the the high road on how far hard your b/f is.

so now i gotta quote my Eazy E-lyrics:

"my pockets are fat , you see, shit don't matter to me....i feel like nobody is badder than me".

them gym shoe kids weren't get shit from me...even w/ a gat stuck to my neck. really doe. i got to let Queenie know that i will be the man in our relationship. LOL!!!! and im psuhing a lot of weight...not drugs (for once)...steel!

and of course i had girlfriends harder than u. so i'm calling us even.

PS. Motherfuckers knew better than to throw a party for me. Fuck. I wasn't going anywhere for a party, much less my own. i Had drugs to do. LOL!


foreverannie 7 years ago

My daughter, a 5th grader, wanted me to help her read a story out of her reading book Hattie's Birthday Box, by Pam Conrad- just a little short story. Geez I was not prepared for that. I don't know if it was empathy for Sub free, or the struggles that I have been going but I was crying like a baby after the first paragraph. My daughter was looking at me like I was nuts and my husband was laughing his butt off that such a short story could evoke so much emotion.

Anyhow, I think the story made a connection with my dilemma of knowing that just a little pice of suboxone (or a peek in the box) will take all of my troubles away, but avoiding the temptation of looking in the box makes me a stronger person.

Anyway, on a lighter note, that's not how i feel now, since tommorrow I am going to scream that "I'm recovered"!

Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol


foreverannie 7 years ago

My daughter, a 5th grader, wanted me to help her read a story out of her reading book Hattie's Birthday Box, by Pam Conrad- just a little short story. Geez I was not prepared for that. I don't know if it was empathy for Sub free, or the struggles that I have been going but I was crying like a baby after the first paragraph. My daughter was looking at me like I was nuts and my husband was laughing his butt off that such a short story could evoke so much emotion.

Anyhow, I think the story made a connection with my dilemma of knowing that just a little pice of suboxone (or a peek in the box) will take all of my troubles away, but avoiding the temptation of looking in the box makes me a stronger person.

Anyway, on a lighter note, that's not how i feel now, since tommorrow I am going to scream that "I'm recovered"!

Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

made it through today....just got home i plan on going w/my friend everyday til i'm stable it comes and goes nights suck but i just took my cocktail and should hopefully fall asleep soon depression sucks but oh well went to a damn meeting again anything to fill the day i'll be going on day 3 tomorrow and i expect 3-5 to be the worse of it....sad so sad but whatever if i can just get through this week.....general question what was the worst of the days for everybody else??? just so i have some light at the end of the tunnel


foreverannie 7 years ago

Merchant,

Day 5 is a great day, week, but I felt better. Then just 5 more days till I recovered. Just remember when your legs ache and your wide awake, it will pass. Reread my posts. I posted everyday :))


foreverannie 7 years ago

Merchant,

Day 5 is a great day, week, but I felt better. Then just 5 more days till I recovered. Just remember when your legs ache and your wide awake, it will pass. Reread my posts. I posted everyday :))


Queenie 7 years ago

Merchant ,4 thro 8 were the worst for me. I am really proud of you and try and focus on the fact that you will feel like a new woman soon enough(well maybe not soon enough for you but...). What your doing is not easy but take comfort in the fact that we made it (Fun Times is a pussy and even he made it) and you will too! Big ups to all my girls doing the right thing (Fun times included)!


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

i must say annie you are my biggest inspiration right now...day 5 and i should b feeling better....i would be so happy!i'm taking benadrly klonipin motrin every 12 hours i really can't wait til i can actually apreciate life again instead of a zombiefied mess. i think our detoxes are going to be alike b.c of how we tapered....don't ya think


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Annie: that is literally how I was today... day 13 was the only other day I was like that... that bad anyway... my husband told me I was sexy, and I started crying so what the hell is up with that... you were cleaning today? You deserve a "short" run so I really hope you stay cool... I'm amazed, really, and it's very encouraging for other people... Merchant: you asked, so I'm going to answer... day 4 was pretty rough.. 5 was ok, but 6,7,8, AND 9 were the worst for me & hubbie... I kept a journal so I'm not just going on memory... I have everything wrote down in detail... on a better note, day 11 and 12 were pretty good... hopefully you'll be like Annie... this might sound lame, but I'm proud of you girl... yeah, stay busy... everyone says that, but it's true... you won't feel like walking or going out or whatever, but it really, really does help.... I was walking all up and down the halls here at night because it has always been worse for me at night too... like I said before, we would take a ride to the lake with the music blastin'.... just to get out of the house for a little while.. you gotta do that or you'll go crazy... damn, you're making it girl... Fun Times: are you sticking to your plan of no smoking? I hustled and got a carton for $30 so I'm not quitting yet... don't think I could handle it right now anyway... also, when you do have "bad" days, what exactly are your lingering symptoms? I'm still only having like one, maybe two, good days inbetween all the bad..... better than nothing though so I'll shut up


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Posts popped up... Merchant: you're right, you both tapered very low so hopefully her timeline will hold for you too... it will be so awesome to have everyone on here off subs for good...


queenie 7 years ago

subfree. just relax and feel whatever it is your feeling. they are only feelings. Journaling helps sort out your thoughts and also purge feelings. If its any consolation....i cry all the time. I cry at work over patients, at meetings when i see someone struggling, when my periods coming i cry sometimes for no reason at all . Its ok to cry your not cracking, your healing. love Queenie


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I mean, it is so awesome to have everyone off subs not will be...


queenie 7 years ago

I jumped off at like a tiny crumb, prob less than 1 mg. Subfree , maybe you were crying when your husband said you were sexy cause you knew it was weiner time! lol OH YEAH! alright you nuts i have work from 7 to 7. good nite everyone


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

queenie what was your jump off

and shit cry all day at least your not numb


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I hear ya Queenie, but what I went through today just isn't normal... but it passed like Fun Times said so it's all good... not used to not being numb... I'm embracing it though... gotta push through - just didn't expect that shit today, it being week 5 and everything... I'm pushing for Merchant and Plaininsane... ready for everyone to be at peace... atleast through the worst... doing good guys...


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

dude i love this site seriously i wished ya all liked by phillie pa so we can have an after subs party like go out to eat at some posh resturant that would be bad ass


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

funtimes! where r u i just tried aim


Fun Times 7 years ago

Queenie...i knew u loved me...even though i am a pussy. (u are what u eat ;) ) merchant...the gats were on my neck...not in lyrics. just an FYI. u started, big girl...don't forget that. ur boyfriend...not my girlfriend.

annie-iam thrilled u have college kids that could rhyme. i wish they taught that way in law school.

subfree- i love talking to you on the posts...b/c u have made it through some days. (Queenie makes it up to me...lol!) The lingering effects for me were an absolute lack of motivation...bordering on being pralalyzed. that sucked. real low energy. sleeplessness...for a couple/few weeks. and i would go to being really sharp to burned out and tired b/c of sleep deprivation. right at the same time you are. i'm holding tuff on the smokes...buts its kinda of a bitch. no patches...no gum. i'm alive. thats cool enough.

there will be some tuff times subfree. but i make meetings. i dont use. and life keeps getting better. i wasn't cured in 4 weeks. 4 months is coming up. i'm getting better. stay in touch.


Fun Times 7 years ago

merchant..glad were cool...i hope. im gonna try and get on aim. Sloane 007.


Fun Times 7 years ago

dig lady..what is your id...it said merchant of eath is offline...try Sloane027..do u have a different id?


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Hey Merchant, I got an idea... we can all meet up in Florida at Fun & Queenie's wedding...LOL....


FunTimes 7 years ago

I just got through chatting with merchant. she is cool as hell. subfree...u r too. you are both invited...although it may be in Chicago. I do like the Florida beach wedding thing though. i like u alot subfree. stay cool.


Fun Times 7 years ago

my bad annie...you teach high school...not college ;)


Fun Times 7 years ago

Queenie..subfree...anyone. Now I told merchant during a very pleasant chat that day 2 was the motherfucker of all motherfuckers. I expect you all agree. Aside from that..some of us recall days of pain. but we're all cool. merchant needs to know that. after dy 2...fuck...its all downhill. especially with her scientific taper. Please...save the horrer stories to her. Focus on how much cooler things are. i know u guys already are coll like that...but dont reak this girl out. okay. please. i told her i am glad as shit that i never visited this site unti 72 days off subs. the fucking stories were way worse than the reality. and i kicked like a motherfucker. 8 to zero. not proud of it....it was stupid. merchant is smart. lets focus on be honest and POSITIVE. thanks.


merchantofdeath 7 years ago

hey i have a question is anyon out there?


Fun Times 7 years ago

u mean beside me?


queenie 7 years ago

Fun Times, your really funny (you are what you eat). And as far as the wedding goes.....lets see if this guy is worth his weight in the sack first. If we did get married, you girls can be my maids! Merchant, once again it was a very small crumb i jumped off at. prob like .5. Stay strong girl. Just get thro these next few days and you will be straight. If i did ,you can do it too. Take alot of showers they really seem to help when you are most uncomfortable. Drink alot of water to flush your system. Im pulln for ya! Well everyone, while you guys are hanging in cyber world i'll be busting ass at work. When im clean i love going to work. Its very satisfying and i feel productive. Its 4:30am eastern time and i must get moving. Have a wonderful day everyone! Oh and Merchant, i love philly! Tho last time i was there i ended up in the county....ouch. oh well, the life of a nurse/drug addict what are you gonna do! love ,The Queen


Fun Times 7 years ago

me in the sack? better ask somebody. lol.


Fun Time 7 years ago

great nite sleep. i hate mornings anyway. how u doing merchant? subfree? everyone? i still alive. by the way, isnt it great...my future bride was arrested in like 20 states. what the fuck? lol.


queenie 7 years ago

only two but hey let that exemplify what happens to sweet, kind ladies when you continue to abuse narcotics. It takes you places you dont want to go peoples. Get off and stay off! How many times you been roped off nigga? Just cause you dont travel...........


Fun Times 7 years ago

please....


LastTime 7 years ago

Hello i just spend 3 hours reading these post and am very inspired now to stop more than ever. I have a questtion i takle oxys and methadones, and once i cant get those i take suboxone. The last 3 or 4 days i was using methadone and this morning didnt have any and was feelinbg a lilttle sick and took suboxone(too early appearently i've heard (and now know) all about takin too early) and got really sick all day. So when/can i take another dose of suboxone now? cause thats all i have. Im iffy on taking another one and feeling worse. any input? Thanks Alot.


LastTime 7 years ago

Hello i just spend 3 hours reading these post and am very inspired now to stop more than ever. I have a questtion i takle oxys and methadones, and once i cant get those i take suboxone. The last 3 or 4 days i was using methadone and this morning didnt have any and was feelinbg a lilttle sick and took suboxone(too early appearently i've heard (and now know) all about takin too early) and got really sick all day. So when/can i take another dose of suboxone now? cause thats all i have. Im iffy on taking another one and feeling worse. any input? Thanks Alot.


Fun Times 7 years ago

hey lastime. welcome. never mind the fucking around...some people cant help themselves. anyway...i had to detox to 30 mgs of methadone before taking subs. in fairness...that kinda sucked a little. in real fairness...i might have used xanax to take the edge off.

anyway...what is your meth dose. i heard taking subs while high on opiates is a motherfucker of a clusterfuck. be wary. apparently u know this. how long since u took meth and how much?


queenie 7 years ago

Last time, do not take until in to W/d. Noy just alittle sick but sick. That guy on top of me is right......clusterscrew (i dont swear)


LastTime 7 years ago

I take 3-5 10mg's a day of methadone. I dont usually mix anything with suboxone, once im sick and dont have anythign else i take the suboxone. I took 3 at around 12 noon, the followoing morning (today) i took first 4mg of suboxone then 10 mg's more, thinking it would help but it didnt. I actually just took 2mg almost 2 hours ago and am feeling ALOT better so i think i found my answer but thank you. You guys seem cool.


Fun Times 7 years ago

merchant dear...how are you? ill stay up late if you need me, just to talk. You are too special in my eyes for me not to try my best to help you. You are as Ive said...truly truly gifted. Ill fight (as much as i can) to get u through this.

Subfree...plesae tell me how u are. I really care about you too.

Foreverannie-todays the day u tell us all u are cured. merchant needs your inspiration. dont take that responability lightly. share what God gave u to others. and if u are not totally cured...then share that. we care for each other round here. jokes are jokes. lives are lives.

lastime...did u think about what i asked? we all want to help u. let us try.

love u all...yeah... i met Queenie on this site. and she has brought me so much joy and laughter...it is honestly unbelievable. i love her...and weve never even met.


foreverannie 7 years ago

2 weeks clean,:

Funtimes, sorry been busy with work, etc. I'm not going to say I'm cured just yet. Yes, I still feel great and getting stronger every day, but last night I had a few small muscle spasms in my arms and legs- nothing major. I was up for an hour, took a Unisom Sleep Melth and went back to sleep. also, today is the 1st day I have worked a full day and will be from now on till summer. I felt decent, maybe a little weak, which could have very well been from anxiety. So therefore, I'll wait a couple of more days :).


Fun Times 7 years ago

thanks foreverannie. its great that you are doing as well as you are. it sounds like u r getting better fast, which tells me that you are mentally strong and that you must have a great mind set. keep it up lady. i'm very proud of you.

how can i really be proud of someone i have never met, just heard about a few day ago, and will never meet? its b/c we share something that very few people shared. overcoming this miserable thing. the only people i know who have done something similar are in NA recovery groups. they made it...and they teach me through their knowledge, experience, and understanding how to stay clean. and they are a grateful and great bunch of friends.

i know this "kick" is something that we all have in common. you and i are both 4 year users of this shit. thats a long time, as we know. i will be 100% honest: when i was chatting with merchant last nite and she was telling me about how u inspired her i said its great that annie inspired u, but my opinion is "bullshit...i have never heard of someone using subs for 4 years and say at day 13...'i'm cured!"

we suffer from a disease called addiction. there is no cure. you and i are addicts. i know what u meant...u felt the wds would be cured. i told merchant "i promise...annie is not posting that she is cured tommow". and frankly...i'm kinda glad...b/c if u did...i would have thought u used something...too much tramadol, klonopin, whatever. u felt like admitting yourself into recovery to almost being cured with only one intervening event: u took pills. something about that sounded amiss to me...but i know u are on your way to being cured of wds.

that said: i was able to get back to work in two and a half weeks. i wasn't myself, but i did it. it was kinda tuff...but i managed. after 4 weeks things were getting really nice...then Bam! i started feeling paralyzed through utter lack of motivation. it was hard to get off the floor or the couch...shower...dress up....look presentable...and go to work. it was so so easy on the subs. even after using C all night (i quit H many many years ago...and never used oxys/oxys/k4s or that stuff).

so like subfree...i felt really good not too long after kicking. but i regressed without using any drugs. i'm telling u this b/c its good to know its normal if it happens to you.

you have a truly excellent frame of mind annie. i think it is actually a great thing to say "the worst is past...i am cured". i believe in self fulfilling prophesies...and u r setting yourself up for a great one. well done annie!!!!


Fun Times 7 years ago

Subfree...merchant...are u guys ok? Queenie...as always...i sincerely enjoyed talking to you tonight. SINCERELY. i do evey single time we talk...you are great! really...this is the first time i've been clean since ive been a man...and woman...talking to u is often (almost always) the best part of my day..bar none. tonite was no exception. i think jerry mcquire said it but i'll repeat it: "she makes me want to be a better man". i met her on this site. we dont talk about sex. we talk about recovery and share laughs about silly stuff. she makes me laugh so hard...and i hope everyone can get 1% of what i got through this site. I got to make the coolest friend i ever imagined that i could make online. or in real life.

laughter at this point of my life is priceless. we laugh so much togather. unlike me, Queenie has substantial recovery time. so i also learn from her. its just the best. i'm saying this in a post for 1 reason. i hope someone else on this site can make a great friend like i did. someone who is sharing getting better. it is priceless


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Another sleepless night, Sunday no sleep, Mon about 2 hours in 20 minute intervals, last night 2 ambien cr's and 3 hours of restless sleep. Haven't touched the sub since i took .5 mg on Sat. The previous 22 days took a total of 5mg, .5mg every couple days. before that I was on 16mg every other day for 5 years. I have to work 10 to 11 hrs 5 days a week and have not missed any work. I think I may die soon. My body is so weak and tonight I have RLS and haven't tried to go to sleep because I know I can't. My dr. was supposed to call me in a script of clonopin but decided I'd be better off with Lunesta. A misunderstanding between my wife and me tonight and I ended up without the script. The pharmacy is closed now so I'm going to enjoy another sleepless night. I have meetings starting tomorrow @ 8:00 and will probably run till noon. I feel pretty freaked out around other people due to my state which makes it hard. I keep thinking i should turn the corner soon but I'm feeling worse day by day. I'm scared to come home and try to sleep but am to weak to do anyhting else. I'm pretty amazed at what a body can take.

Fun Times

Your a kick in the ass and a real inspiration. You are one who tells it like it is and you are real. I wish everyone well. Be tough everyone. I would rather crash and burn then to give back into this. Somehow i'm going to get thru this even though i tell myself i can't take this anymore several times a day. I tought I was pretty tough with a high pain tolerence and a strong mind but I now know the only way i'm getting thru this is by the grace of God.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Plaininsane...man you have gone from 16mg every other day to .5mg...great fucking job!!!!. Dude...I'm glad you realize that God is carrying you through this thing. There was no way I did it on my own. No way.God carried me through this shit. I KNOW THAT! Shit...this is how i useed to get through work: i'd promise myself every fucking day that i was going home early. Work piled up...i didn't really care. I was kinda like u: "fuck it...this shits killing me anyway...i aint stressing about this job. I'll do my best. If God wants me to keep it...I will. if not...I won't".

I have a professional job. I used to be wired at work (hyperactive...didn't use til after worka). Now i just chill out. people could see the "this fuckers gonna break" look in my eye when i was running on a horrible 2 hours sleep. they left me alone. i told my boss i was quitting xanax...half true...and that it was breaking me. he was supportive...not bragging but i am "in demand" at my work...when i do work...i get shit done other people their cant. when i can muster up energy i work furiously...then take a break.

so daily i would promise myself i would leave early...and i meant it. then when that time came i just said fuck it...and stuck around a little longer...until finally the day was done. NA meetings really helped me keep myself sane, they were and are like decompression chambers after work. i went to over 100 in 90 days all over chicgoland...until i found good ones i like. i usually hit 6 a week...i gave myself one day off to chill.

man...you are gonna turn the corner soon. u took 16mgs every other day for 5 years...i took 8 day for about 4 years...sometimes 12. i wish i had a wife to comfort me a little...it cant hurt. luicky motherfucker. LOL! u can always go lay on the couch or floor to be alone when your legs are kicking. I'd buy Xanax online if i were u...i would. that shit helps u sleep in the begining and takes a serious edge off the anxiety and kicking. it helps u relax.

can you take 1 week off work? tell them you got a bad flu man. that swine flu is freaking people out. i took 2.5 weeks off. of course my desk looked insane with files and paperwork when i got back...but i just did what i could...and gave my body a fucking break.

one day my boss was pisssed at me about some petty bullshit. he was screaming. then yelling. then just mad. finally the guy (good guy) gave up when he realized i hadn't gave a shit about his rant. (i was honestly hoping to get fired i was so fucked up...unemployment checks seemed like a fucking miracle cure). When he was done i told him as calm as can be (which i never was able to before....)

I said: "I'll do my best...i really will. But I need you to understand...this is my job...not my life". he totally respected that. i aint trying to blow smopke up your ass....you really are doing great. and as long as u dont pick shit up. hey 5mgs in over 20 days aint shit and we both know that. not from 8 a day. it aint a race my man. just remember...as long as u keep taking the same or LESS...ur getting clean. dont kill yourself with some dumbas addict "i have to be on zero yesterday shit". your deling with your life. just keep being sensible and u r doing great! And stay hard motherfucker! I'll say a prayer for u tonight. Stay fucking hard!!!!


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun Times

God is very important in my life. I'm a addict that hardly ever misses church. I pray several times daily. God is number 1 in my life and always has been, I just forgot to turn everything over to him. I always thought I could let him run 80% of my life and I could take care of the rest. My faith and Gods grace will carry me thru. It's midnight here and I tried to lay down for 45 mins. Kicking legs and keeping my wife awake so I'm back up. I'll try to lay down around 4:00 and relax till 6:00 when I have to get ready for work. I would love to take a week off but I run about 70% of our companies work and everything will go to shit. My boss who is the owner is a great boss but I feel like I'll be letting him down. I'm in charge of multi-million dollar projects and if i'm gone it could cost the company greatly. Your work ethic sounds so similar to mine. I always say as soon as 8 hours is up i'm outta there-never happens, some nights its 8 or 9 before I leave. My wife is very supportive of me, been married almost 22 years with 3 girls. Marriage is tough though, I 've put her thru hell and vise versa, many times close to divorce but because of our faith we've fought thru it. We have finally over the past 3 years become very good friends-best friends in fact. I think we've finally made it over the hump in our relationship. Come to think of it marriage is kinda like a ass kickin wd too. Once you get over the hump life is good. Thanks for the prayer-very much appreciated. I will also be saying prayers for you. your certainly helping a lot of people here. Thank you also for all the incentive, you really are helping me fight this. Take care and talk soon.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Fun Times, I want to respond to your last comment because I am truly insulted and let me tell you why... First, I've said this before and I'll say this again....I don't feel that taking a Klonopin and Tramadol 1 time cured me, but the sleep I was allotted allowed me to get the sleep that healed my body. Therefore my symptoms went away. Yes, for a couple of nights afterwards, I recieved small spasms, but I promise it was very minor. Just something I mentioned to the group. Maybe your just stuck on the words "I'm cured" which are words that I just used to make light of the situation.

There are some suboxone users that do not have any withdraw symptoms and some that heal within a few days. We are all different. You may be still experiencing depression, weakness such a few months later and I'm sorry for that but I'm not going to take what you say and think "Oh no, a few months from now I will be doing the same"...we are all diifferent and we should respect those differences on this site. I just think we should be pushing everyone through with the positive.

Merchant, if I inspire you, then thats great. I want nothing more than for you to kick that habit. You may do better than me and I hope you do :)

Plain Insane,

You are truly an inspiration. Your strength is amazing! I can emphasize with the way you feel. I had the exact same thoughts. I know you will get through this. As soon as you get a good nights sleep, your body will heal. Also, I bought Lavender Body Salt at Walmart for achy legs, restlessness, etc. It was 5 bucks and I used it for a hot bath. It really soothed me :)


foreverannie 7 years ago

Plain Insane,

I just reread your posts and wanted to tell you that in my opinion, just quit taking subs all together. You already know what the WDs feels like and if your feeling this bad on .5, then just kicking the habit puts you closer to recovery. Just a thought. Annie


foreverannie 7 years ago

Plain Insane,

I just reread your posts and wanted to tell you that in my opinion, just quit taking subs all together. You already know what the WDs feels like and if your feeling this bad on .5, then just kicking the habit puts you closer to recovery. Just a thought. Anni


Fun Times 7 years ago

annie...you have a knack for beiung truly insulted. and unlike merchant...who i had my differences with...we still wound up chatting with simply b/c i offered/she asked...whicever....but we both cared enough too. you are something else. take the petty few words that rubbed you the wrong way and hold 'em tight. it apparently makes you feel good.hold 'em really fuckin tight. it sounds like you need to.

"Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol" i don't give a shit about that...and i wasn't insulted. im a fucking adult. ohhhh. lol.

lets both choose to forget what i told you: "its great that you are doing as well as you are. it sounds like u r getting better fast, which tells me that you are mentally strong and that you must have a great mind set. keep it up lady. i'm very proud of you." and

"you have a truly excellent frame of mind annie. i think it is actually a great thing to say "the worst is past...i am cured". i believe in self fulfilling prophesies...and u r setting yourself up for a great one. well done annie!!!!"

b/c they aren't helping you feel angry, they were nice words of encouragenment:

you took "so like subfree...i felt really good not too long after kicking. but i regressed without using any drugs. i'm telling u this b/c its good to know its normal if it happens to you."

to mean this:

You may be still experiencing depression, weakness such a few months later and I'm sorry for that but I'm not going to take what you say and think "Oh no, a few months from now I will be doing the same".

how u sounding? like a scared woman..and thats fine. like an insulted woman...despite the kind words. i know people like you...i dont talk to them either.

"Fun Times- nice how you can make poetry out of song lyrics. I used to use that technique with my high school kids-lol"

you're very trite. and your secret job that nobody would believe sounds like the genuiinely lesat impressive thing ive heard of. your not practicing medicine, law, runnining multi-million dollar projects, a student in the army...your a fuckin high school teacher. wow. we wouldn't believe that. its wayyyy beyond us. whatever.


Fun Times 7 years ago

plaininsane...my man. Man you sound cool. I make it to church too. I told sexy queenie how happy i was that i had my first clean Easter in at least 20 years. I don't know ur faith...but Easter is the big deal for Christians...which if u r one...u obviously know. That was so cool. I went to a meeting in the morning, church later, and actually showed up at "Easter with the family" which rocked. People were looking at me so curiously...like i was a ghost. I didn't make family events in a few years. It felt great. I reconnected with my sister, niece and nephew, and her cool husband. I was great when they were born but addiction just started isolating me. I stayed so late i almost crashed there.

I know how that work deal goes. I know how those 7 to 8 om days go. What can you do? Just keep doing something... I realized that I could honestly work all weekend alone (with no questions/meetings/distractions) and i still would have work to do. I put it all in God's hands, prioratize as best i can, and do what i can. so far...so good.

I really really want you to know that it gets better brother. After 3 almost 4 months...work is getting cool again. Im 100% at least 90% of the time. Before I was 70% half the time. My boss owns our company too. They both built these companies (ive known my boss for 25 years..when he had nothing. fate, and his cool nature, allowed me to have a great job with him). Sounds like your boss appreciates and recognizes how vital u are (and thats not bragging...some things are just true...i believe u 100%), and so he knows that "i need plaininsane. if he's a little off...it's cool. he'll get better". our bosses own our companies b/c of their good judgment.

its nice to have a guy on this site. the women (most) are great. but i like hearing a guys point of view. and its super cool to hear that your a God loving and faithful guy too. Becaue so am I.

Take care man. truly...it only gets better. u know the serenity prayer. live it as best u can. peace.


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Foreverannie

I haven't touched a sub in 5 days and will not. Even though i'm sick as hell and haven't slept 5hrs in the last 3 nights my adreniline is kicking in. I'm actually getting some pretty heavy adreniline rushes now. I will not give into the beast!!

Fun Times

Thanks for everything. I am a christian and Easter and Christmas are important to me. If jesus didn't beat death then our lives are pretty worthless and I would continue down the road of destrution till it killed me. I actually got about a hour of sleep last night. I made it to my 8:00 a.m. meeting but then called in and said I was going home for the day. I think my boss understansds when he is receiving emails from me at 1:00 in the morning discussing work. If I can get some sleep tonight I'll be able to make it thru tomorrow and then I'll have a couple days to rest. I just took a valium and hopefully I can crash a little while. You have given me what it takes to say no way to anymore subs. I'm starting to feel invincible and I know what to expect in the furture. If this will start getting a little better I can kick its ass. I've made it this far and i can't see it getting any worse. even if i improve a couple % a day I can manage. If I felt 25% better now it would feel like a 100%.

I'm starting to believe pain is my friend. It's almost a much better feeling than being numb. At least now I'm expressing emotion to my family. One of my co-workers said to me yesterday, "your not such a hard ass lately, you've mellowed, what's up with that" That pretty much proves that when i was on subs i was a different person.

Lyrics from a song by Days of the New. It kinda fits don't you think.

Alone with pain, I thought I'd made a friendWhy do you leave now is that what you've plannedWait your turn it's a long time before you'll breatheStay under water and tell me are you free

Cannot complain the pain will stay here for todayit seems to stayCannot complain the pain will stayCannot complain

I want to be there for you You can't seem to take this rideI want to be there for you now

You're not a shoulder if i'm the one to leanAs I see your red side when you always bleedWorld is a pea no it don't revolve around meIf anything I revolve around the world

Cannot complain the pain will stay here for todayit seems to stayCannot complain the pain will stayCannot complain

Talk soon!


Fun Times 7 years ago

Nice song. If you read my earlier posts you'll see i was burning myself in the shower (my pain receptors were dead)...i hit myself with a sturdy stick...i tried punching myself (and begging friends to join in) just to feel some pain. Man...i know what numb is like. I cannot take a scalding shower now. it hurts. before...it didnt at all. and i took long hot showers that would burn my skin today. those were strange days.

as for the people at work...i swear...everyone is so much cooler to me now. my job isn't like this website. there's no swearing and i work with enough women that i have to really watch out that i don't say ANYTHING that they will take the wrong way about ANYTHING (work stuff...not flirting shit...they know i don't do that).

but since ive kicked and felt numb and felt pain (it wasn't hell but it wasn't fun)...ive mellowed alot at work. trivial shit doesn't phase me anymore. i dont have the energy to be angry. or the desire. i really don't.

one day i was getting ready for work...fixing my hair...picking the right shirt (been skipping ties lately) and i was really trying to look sharp for work. and it hit me. nobody cares what shirt i wear. this girls getting a divorce, this guys kid is on drugs, this guys wife is sick...i realized that the world doesn't revolve around me. i was like a kid sitting home sick from school...thinking b/c i wasn't there...school must have been called off. it couldn't go on without me....right? now i'm starting to becaome an adult. its about time.


Fun Times 7 years ago

i forgot to say- Congratulations plaininsane. You're gonna make this. and everyday will get better. There may be an occassional ruff day or two...but not for awhile. maybe never. from where your at now..it ONLY gets better for a while. wait til another week passes. you'll feel like superman. take care man.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

That's the fucking spirit Plaininsane... that's how you gotta be... Fun Times, thanks for asking about me... you and Annie play nice... Y'all, I'm really worried about Merchant... do you think she caved? Are you out there girl? I had a really rough day yesterday.... and only slept about three hours last night - feel like I'm going backwards... but fuck it, I'll be ok... Fun Times, I totally hear what you're saying about family... I guess everyone gets isolated when they're an addict... fucking sucks... I am lucky to have my parents, grandparents, and even great grandparents - brother and sister... I miss them all.... need to start spending more time with them... I, also, have really come to care for everyone on here.... FOR ANYONE OUT THERE THINKING ABOUT QUITTING SUBS or whatever... it really does feel good to be free of this shit... clean... drugs and alcohol have been part of my life for the past 10 years, and it's just taking time for my brain to heal... and I'm just going with it in the mean time... I honestly don't know how I could ever repay Queenie, Fun Times, and everyone else that has helped me through this... the closest NA meetings are over an hour away from me (yeah, I live waaaaay out) so this site really is my therapy... Thanks guys...


PlainInsane 7 years ago

No luck with the valium, although I feel a little wobbly everytime i lie down within 20 mins those creepy crawly feelings take over and keep me from sleeping. I have to get up. My stomach feels like its tied in knots also and nausea comes and goes. I just said with tears in my eyes "Is that all you got f-kin bring it on your not going to break me" This really helps being able to talk with people here. My wife is picking up the script of lunesta later today so I'll wait till 9 or 10 to take it and maybe it'll get me 6 hrs of sleep which would be a first in over 3 weeks. Does anyone recall how long the restlessness has been lasting. Thats one of the main reasons i cannot sleep. At 3:00 a.m. this morning i finally dosed off i can even remember dreaming then all of a sudden the restless body wakes me up and i look at the clock and it's 3:34 a.m. That was about it for my sleep for the night. Take care everyone and remember gain strength from all the positive attitudes here. This will pass and you will all be much stronger with more character.

Fun Times

I can handle an occasional rough day as long as i have a couple good days before it. When i was heavy into the oxy's and soma I often told myself i was quitting. I would go thru 2 days of severe wd's then give in. This time i'm on day 23 and this to me has been far worse because of the duration. I could never waste 23 days of this awe inspiring pain to go back to subs. You mentioned the swine flu earlier in one of your posts and that made me think-am i more vunerable to pick it up now. They closed a school witin 15 miles of my house because one of the kids had it. Well if I did get it i'd kick it's ass too. I know i have a strong immune system cause i only get a cold about once every 3 years and its been at least 10 years since i had the flu. Talk soon.


Fun Times 7 years ago

plaininsane...i gotta say...u r going at this like one bad motherfucker. i sincerely respect that. tis site is one of the few places i can let loose and say "fuck all that...i gotta get on with this", and not offend more than one or two people a day ;) honestly...i remember those fuckin 34 minute nite sleeps. and i said the same thing you are saying...FUCK YOU...THIS KICK AINT SHIT. now we both know not sleeping isnt that cool. there was one benefit for me: when i woke up after a short nap...MOTHERFUCKER I WAS COLD. ive said this probably half a dozen times...but really...I WAS FROZEN TO THE FUCKING MARROW FOR AWHILE AFTER WAKING UP FROM A NAP...FUCK AN HONEST 2 HOUR NITE SLEEP...THAT WAS TERRIFYING SHIT. sometimes i had so little energy and motivation i was like fucking paralyzed. no circulation. that was kinda ruff...but u know...what are u gonna do.

just keep being a hard motherfucker. fuck...i honestly wish you could get some elavil or syraquil. the dr. would give u elavil for back pain...its like a muscle relaxer and anti depressant. i know...strange. i dont advocate using drugs illicitly. it the dr. prescribes it...u will sleep with some elavil. pretty easy to get. makes lunesta look like a sugar pill. that shit is lites out my friend...and i know what its like to not sleep at all for 3 days in a row. u can use some sleep plaininsane. maybe try for elavil. no more restless legs. think horse tranquillizer. wake up fresh.

anyway...this shit aint nothing but a thang. it aint outlasting you my man.


Plain Insane 7 years ago

Fun Times

Yeah i took elavil years ago for depression, your right it would really put me out. I also took a drug called remeron for a month or so, but I could sleep for 20 hrs everyday while on it + I would have these nightmares and also bite my tongue everynight and hard enough that I would wake up with a mouth full of blood. i had to stop or I wasn't going to be able to work. I'm going to try the lunesta tonight and if it doesn't work I'll call the Dr. tomorrow and have im give me some elavil. I just need to get thru one day of work and then i can kick it for 2 days. At that point I could care less if I sleep on the weekend at least I know I don't have to get up and work and God willing i'll be feeling better by Monday. Hey are you a Blackhawks fan? I'm originally from Michigan and a die hard Redwing fan. I played hockey here in CA till I was 40. I'm actually skating again and going to get on a over 35 league in the fall. We could be seeing you in the conference finals. Watching a hockey game also gives me some peace and take smy mind off the pain. You are right this shit aint outlasting me. When I'm finally over the worst of it i'm gone to consider myself one of the baddest mofo's out there. (at least in my mind) I definately will also want to help other souls defeat this beast!!!


Fun Times 7 years ago

Plaininsane

i remeber using elavil for years. at my worst i took 300mgs AS SOON AS I WOKE UP, TO FACE THE DAY. thats fucked up. back when i took it to sleep and quit...the nightmares were fucking fierce. man. i read the side-effects. they called that shit nite terror. i found out why. that remeron sounds pretty fucking strong. some lunatic gve me some capsules called geodon. this is the only drug i have been too afraid to take. really. these capsules look like poison.

Honstley...after we traded Roenick i said fuck the Hawks. Im glad their playing well...BUT MY MOTHERFUCKING BULLS GOTTA WIN TONITE MY MAN!

Talk soon. STAY HARD!


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun Tmes

Last I looked they were doing it. There up with 2 mins left. Every game they've played with the celts has went to the wire. Pistons are on a down turn now. But I've seen them play really well for several years, although that group is going down as under achievers. Time to rebuild, on the other hand the Bulls are definately up and coming. Good Luck!!


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun times

Way to go Bulls. 3 OT's. They got to be tough in Boston or it will be over. As close as the games have been Chi-town should have great confidence knowing they already beat them there once. GOOD LUCK!!! Took the lunesta 1.5 hours back then laid down 30 mins. ago. Feels just like I snorted a bag of crank. don't think this shit gonna work and its going to be another long night. How long did it take bfore your started to get 4 to 6 hrs of sleep a night? Sleep has always been an important thing for me. I need to be at work at 7:00a.m. and during hunting season I'm often leaving my house at 3:00 a.m. to drive close to 2 hours where I duck hunt. Last year went to Montana elk hunting. Drove 1181 miles in 14 hrs. Talk about making time. I got on I-80 and set the cruise at 92 mph and sailed for hours on end. Had a great time there. What a beautiful State with yellowstone park and all.


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Well it's almost midnight and my lunesta is working well. I might of been blastin some coke. Work is going to kill me tomorrow but i'm going and will get thru the day. Hope everyone else is doing well. this could be my forth night in a row of less than 2 hrs of sleep. I think i'm headed next year to get a job on "The Deadliest Catch" I can hang with those guys putting 30 + hours in with no sleep. Sweet dreams everyone!!! tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. Funny thing is i don't have any cravings for the subs, just a little shut eye.

subfreechikadee, foreverannie, queenie & merchantofdeath

Hope all is well with you gals.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Plaininsane

3 fucking overtimes!!! Ding-a ling muthefucker...I hope my boys roll hard down in Boston. My advice to the Bulls...let Rose go to the fucking hole...make him. and make Tyrus Thomas sit down with Dennis Rodman for an hour and learn how to be a man! Fuck...i saw tyrus leap over the fucking backboard! really, this mutherfucker has springs. why cant he man up already?!?

I gotta say...that is some hilarious shit. took lunesta ...might as well have snorted some crank. Laugh out fuckin Loud! thats a fuckin classic!!!! Hey man...were all opiate addicts here. we live to fuckin sleep. take a hot shower man. clear your head. get some elavil. it took me about 3 weeks to get 4 hours a night.

Sounds like you did some cool shit. My dad used to hunt ducks here in Illinois. I happy when the salmon roll in ;) You'll be cool man. wait til this weekend comes. your body will quit pumping all the adrenaline due to work and anxiety, and u'll crash like a king.

take care.


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun Times

Just getting to leave for work. Actually took another Lunesta around midnight. got 3 to 4 hrs of sleep, broken up but at least my wife said she heard me snoring for awhile. Definately feel a little more energy this morning other than the wobbles from the lunesta that still hasn't cleared my body. Anyways off to work I go. Have a great day and we'll talk tonight.


Fun Times 7 years ago

lucky dog. good for you man. i know if you were into opiates and Soma...you loved your sleep man. i am VERY gald u got some. I am suprised Lunesta worked. pleasantly suprised. that is great fucking news. see u go from being all cranked up to given 4 hours of sleep.

beats 34 minutes don't it ;) just give your 20%. God has the rest.

FYI: Mutherfucker it's FRIDAY!!!!! Have Fun!!!! or just chill ;) Talk soon.


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Day 25, Made it thru work, actually had my best day in the last 2 weeks. Still tired from getting a total of about 5 hrs of sleep this week but, I got two days to rest. If I can't sleep tonight i could care less, don't have to work tomorrow or sunday. Just watched my Wings beat the Ducks and that was great. Everyone have a great weekend and be tough!!

Fun Times

Good luck to the bulls. I actually despise the Celtics. Kick their asses and have a great weekend. I honestly think I'm finally making the turn. I know there will still be many bad days to come but if i have a good day in between then it gives me the energy to fight thru it. I'm starting to feel like steel, although it still hurts and plays on my mind I know I can kick its ass. After all if God's with us who can mess with us. It's like David slaying Goliath. Nobody messes with God's children.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Plaininsane

I'm really pulling for you man. I may repeat some things i posted weeks ago, but thats cool: for one...i don't expect we'll ever meet. yet i still really care that you get well. i really like you man. you are very God centered, and i myself truly appreciate that. i know David v. Goliath isn't esoteric...but its a perfect analogy. i'm glad you're here man.

i doubt you're Catholic...i was raised Catholic. i consider myself simply Christian today. i'm not blind to 'bad stuff' that happened in Catholicism, and i dont adhere to all its tenets. but i am proud i went to a Catholic/Christian garmmar school, high school, university, and law school. they taught middle eastern religion at the university..but obviously they taught Christinaity mostly (in theology of course), but they never taught Catholicism. i was an altar boy for the current Cardinal (Francis George) in the biggest archdiocese in America...when he was just a starting out as a priest. he was cool. wow time flies.

its amazing we can be cool about sports. detroit and chicago. we've had a rivalry or two ;) yeah...fuck boston. they bought a team last year. big deal. shit...they were never the bulls or pistons...even back in their white men cant jump larry bird days. lol.

u know people come and go on this site. i stay on and stay clean, and help anyone i can. people helped me a lot. Queenie more than anyone. i just got off the phone with her. she's an incredibly inspiring person. she has a gift, she's really hot too;)

i'm gald your here buddy. please stick around. its makes me feel better just hearing from you. this is the first time ive really been clean since i was a grown man...so i appreciate any help i get.

congratulations on making it through work. i have a very good idea of the intensity and diligence your job requires. you really kicked as this week by toughing it out and staying hard. very well done man.

by the way...i have this theory. one of my prayers now is worth more than 17 years of junkie prayers combined. i believe that. i'll pray for both of us, Queenie, and everyone trying to recover. God Bless you bro.


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun Times

Actually was raised babtist but my wife was raised catholic. Dosen't really matter as long as you know where your heart is with God. I'm the typ of person that gets along with anyone. I take people at face value. I'm definately staying on this site even after I feel I've got this thing put behind me. I want to help others to get thru this. It's great talking with you because as i stated before "Your Real" and also brutally honest. Thats an admiring quality. just because we may never see each other doen't mean we cant continue talking here. Who knows some day when i'm passing thru to Michigan we could meet. I own 74 acres in a town called Gladwin Mi. and thats where i plan on building my home and retiring at. I was fortunate to buy a home here in 89 and although $190,000 seemes like a lot of money I sold it 10 years later for $384,000 put that money into a bigger house and even with the recession this house is still worth $650,000. If things turn around in the next few years it'll jump back up to around $850,000 which it was at a couple years back. I love your theory and will be praying for you also along with the others here. Glad that Queenies been such a great friend and help to you. Doesn't hurt that she's a hottie too. You always wonder what people you talk to look like and when you meet them your hardly ever right. Here's a picture of me so to speak. 5' 10', 179lbs graying brown hair, bluish green eye's depending on what I wear. Since I was a teenager i've literally had 1000's of people tell me I look like a young Paul Newmen- Probably a ugly one. But I have had my share of beautiful women. To bad it took me so long to learn how to treat them. Well I think i'm there with my wife now anyways. She seems to think i'm pretty special and of course so do my 3 girls. I know god has me here for a reason because if not i'd surely have been dead by now. I was always the one in the goup that would try anything and do anything anyone dared me to do. I did some pretty messed up things when was younger and could of landed myself behind bars or 6 feet under. i'm sure god has a plan for my life and also for all of us here. we'll its 1:18 a.m. and im going to try and get some sleep. I actually feel like i can sleep tonight. If not i'll get up and let you no otherwise I'll talk to you tomorrow. Take care and God bless.


foreverannie 7 years ago

Plain Insain/Fun Times alter ego- your not fooling anyone. I just wanted to pop in to let you know that you are crazy if you think that it's not obvious that your the same person. Keep your game going, it must be a Fun Time for you. I will not be replying to any of your comments anymore.

I guess being an dumb English Teacher must have just taught me one thing- how to compare similiar phrasing, grammatical errors, and narcassism.


Fun Times 7 years ago

Plainsinsane

wake up man....you gotta read this post above. u cant buy this shit. tell me i was wrong about her. dont tell her anything...she'll think it was me. laugh out fucking out! UNREAL!

Really man..i know its not right...but that shit just made my morning. (i slept late).

Annie-you are a terrible fucking teacher...and a screwed up lady. i know...you cant help it. parananoia will destroya woman. already has.


Fun Times 7 years ago

PS. Annie...you cant spell very well. that cant be good for a teacher. i may make typos...but at least i know it and can spell. lol.


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun Times

If I am your alter ego, what a mind we must have. I live in CA. and you in Chi-town. I don't care anyway, you have been great help to me and I'll continue posting here. BTW, I slept from about 1:30 a.m. till 8:30 a.m. this morning. You can imagine my delight when I woke up I had tears in my eyes I was so happy. I actually am feeling much better so far today. Maybe i'm finally turning the corner a little. The last sub I took was last Sat. and it was a .5mg crumb. Well now we can carry on conversations between our alter egos and we won't be fooling anyone. That's really sad she believes that because she was inspiring me also and now she doesn't even believe there is a me. "Bulls Baby" fiinish it tonight!!! Good luck Bro!


Fun Times 7 years ago

Plaininsane

7 hours sleep. God that is great news. I am VERY glad to hear that. You seem to be geeting better bigtime, and i know u had a hard kick, shit we all did, and i when i hear someone has turned the corner on this motherfucker...it just makes me feel good.

You know plaininsane, i actually do care that some people might get help, even a tiny bit, frome this site. and when someone says

"Fun Times:

Good Luck to you,you may not realizethat you really helped me a couple of days ago. It was nice to have someone that understands what I was going through. You are truly gifted in helping others and I really hope you at least check in daily :0"

that means alot to me. plianinsane...i have alot of days off subs..but it is helping me that you are here. it really is. we can tlak about kicking, God, sports, work, anything...but knowing that we are both coming rom a certain place (a couple guys who are getting clean for the first time in at least a decade) gives us something to truly relate to each other about.

you're right. i shouldn't care and don't care either about infantile stuff. i wasn't that upset, but c'mon...this site has been important to my recovery, yours, and others. so it does matter a bit to me. i have to be honest...i was dissapointed...because i hope a couple people (mechantofdeath and subfree) who i was really pulling for didn't somehow get turned off by this person and their brilliant idea on this site or any other, (man/woman..who knows what annie is, addict/bullshitter...who knows...for the first time it occurred to me that people might just be sick and trying to sabotage others, that is dissaointing)....like u said..i cant care, b/c i cant do anything about it.

Bull's baby. How about a Bulls Lakers Finals ;) that would be cool (if u like the Lakers). Incidentally...i don't think we look that different, just as an fyi type thing. Paul Newman really couldnt be called ugly. lol. Cool Hand Luke is one of my all time favorite films. when i was going through a ruff part of my kick, i actually thought of him. instead of complaining I sat back and told myself "every once in awhile i get a pretty cool hand". take care bro. go Bulls!


Plain Insane 7 years ago

Fun Times

Ah, the egg eating contest!!! What a classic movie. One of the greats. I'm here for you anyday anytime. I'm always checking for posts. I sure hope the other gals are all o.k. Haven't heard from any of them lately. Love to see the bulls get to the finals. love to see them kick the Cavs asses. LeBron just gets to many calls. He drives, nobody touches him and yet he gets the call. That SUCKS!! Not a laker fan though. I'm a die hard Michigan sports fan even with the hapless Lions. Sad how they ruined Barry Sanders. If he'd have been on any other team he'd of won a SB. Keep being you, thats how God made you. Your intellgent, witty and you have went thru hell and you have awesome painful experiences to share which will only make the people you touch stronger, if not those people are not yet ready to face their DEMONS!!! I'm finally kickin this shit-1. Because i know that is where my faith takes me and 2. because i can finally say I want this. It may be selfish but until i was ready to do it for me it just wasn't going to work. Talk later GO BULLS!!!!!!

BTW, this morning my wife called me her little Mexican jumpin Bean. Laughed my ass off. She had to take a sleeping pill last night just to get a good nights sleep due to my kickin it all night long for the last 3 weeks.


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun Times

Sorry to see the Bulls lose. I know how heartbreaking that can be. they're only going to get better with the talent they have though. They'll be back to the top soon. Had a fairly good day. Started draggin ass in the afternoon though. hopefully i'll get some sleep again tonight. Stay strong and i'll talk to you soon.


Fun Times 7 years ago

the young bulls tried. Rose and Tyrus have alot of potential, gordon and salomon are tight...they'll improve. really...after having the joradn era teams w/6 championships...im not greedy. rodman, piipen, kukoc and even kerr too...it aint getting that good again.

Lebron is a player...so is Kobe...but i watched jordan play 82 regular season games a year..plus playoffs. nuff said. dumars wa the only cat i ever saw guard him well..and that was mjs prime.

i hear u about Barry. thats how i felt about Walter Payton. yeah....the 85 Bears were insane (noonoe's ever gonna make me believe there has been a better defense)...but payton played so many years with no offensive line, quarterback, or game plan...other than handoff payton.

it made me sick seeing Barry have to start every play 4 yards BEHIND the line of scrimmage every fuckin play, running and spinning for his life just to get to the line. hey, we both know if Barry played for emmit smiths cowboys...they would be measuring his gains in miles not yards. its VERY HARD for me to say this: but Barry had moves that Payton didn't. and Payton was a great all around player...but he lacked break away speed. otherwise u could measure his gains in miles. on a bright note-this is the first time in the Bears history they have a quarterback. honestly. i'm not counting that one year eric kramer threw for 4000 yards. mcmahon was not a great qb. but its the bears. they got rid of bernard berriman last year...so we can now play on a 20 yard field with the safetys up....instead of streching it 80 yards and having options.

we'll see...at least the hawks are still in it. redwings ae like the old bulls...if they never win again...you've been lucky. im not a spoiled yankee fan. i dislike new york..as a rule..a lot. most chicagoans do..i hope.

as far as the kick goes...lets help each other. we both know its no fun...but it aint supposed to be. once u accept that...its simple. you have pain coming...maybe discomfort...and u wait abit and it goes away. mine is gone. now i just getting used to living life clean...i really do like this girl queenie...i wish she lived closer...but i wouldnt trdae talking to her for the world. u know...i enjoy talking to her more than ANY girl ive ever known...and we've never even met. God puts the right people in our lives when we need them. I bet your wife is already so proud of you. and i bet your marriage is really going to hit a new stride and be better than ever, as will your life...now that your mind has a layer of "numbness: removed rom it and u aren't living to work then sleep. right? hey...take care man. talk soon. thanks for checkin in and talking. i appreciate it alot. clean living is new...but i'm really liking it.


Plain Insane 7 years ago

Fun Times

if I'm correct she lives in florida? You should hop a plane down there for a couple days and meet her face to face. Can't cost that much out of O'hare. That is if she'd agree with it. I'm assuming you've talked with her on the phone several times. I've been telling my wife i would take her to Florida the last couple years and haven't got around to it. When I was 18 my neighbors had a shrmp boat out of Benita Springs The kids were shrimpers among other items they brought back on their boat. My friend and his father and myself drove down from MI. to pick up a load of shrimp to sell where we lived. I just went along for the ride. We left a 7:00 a.m and drank straight JD till 4:00 a.m. the next morning taking turns driving. At 4:00 I was driving and we were somewhere in Georgia, I couldn't see the road anymore due to double vision so i pulled of the side of the road. About 6:00 a.m. the sun started rising and the old mangot out of the back of the truck. I had parked in this red slime clay and we were stuck. He was pissed and threw a right hook to my check, still being quite drunk I told him if you ever do that again I'll knock your f-in head off. He was a trucker by trade so he had a CB and he radioed a trucker and in no time we were back on the road. We did have a great time while we were there though. Jakes going to be a great QB for you as long as your line protects him. The dude has a cannon on him. i was really hoping Detroit would get him but I doubt to many good players would really want to go there until they can prove they can protect a QB. Talk later.


Fun Times 7 years ago

cool story. i'll visit her..we kinda planned something. i notice u didnt comment on ur wife. lol. fun times! she has to b great to put up with u. really.

anyway. Wings 1...Ducks zero!


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Fun Times

The wings are looking shaky. End of period one. My wife is great and has put up with alot of my BS. But remember it takes two!!

Right after we had our 3rd child 1996 my wife was diagnosed with non-hodgkins lymphoma. The next year was hell. 7 months of chemo and 3 months of radiation. 13 years later and shes doing great. She plays basketball in a league everyweek. 2 months ago her baby brother (39 yrs) old is diagnosed with the same thing only his is at stage 3. He's thru 2 chemo's now and he's doing great. they say its not hereditary but I have a hard time believeing that. slept about 6 good hours last night but feel pretty shitty today. i'm definately better then I have been though, think its cause of the sleep. tonight is what scares me cause of work tomorrow. Well going to watch the rest of the game. Talk later.


Seroquilt Klonaman 7 years ago

New here.... Figured it was my crack at some bad advice, spelling, grammar, punctuation, and a fuck load of run on sentences. ahhhhh.

Now then.

I will be brief and spare everyone all the war stories we've heard time and time again. I'm 33 Male. Live right outside of Baltimore, home of the drive thru dope streets. started young. 15, weed, acid, whippets, shrooms, molly. 21 became an overnight alcoholic and addicted to any form of pain medicine. 23... Full blown Heroin addict. Snortin about $40 a day. few months later, IV use. Thats all she wrote once I stuck that needle in my arm. my $40 aday habbit quickly became $100 a day habit. lucky for me I was a some what functioning addict. I Bartended and made decent money and the nights that people didn't tip right, WHICH IS %20 for all you cheep assholes who came into my bar, sat all night askin, "YO!~ Day aint nuff licker en her!" so you make their drink stronger and they leave you SHIT! (anyone who has waited or bartended Knows exactly what I'm talking about!) shit..... I didn't mean to go there......Basically if I knew I had some shady Canadians or foreigners I would scam the fuck out that bar until I had enough money for my dope, and whatever the fuck I wanted that night.

This might not be the best advice to give but I will tell you this. IT FUCKING WORKED AND IT WAS AWESOME! I knew I had to get off dope, Heroin. The 1st time I detoxed off dope was a breeze. I know what you all are thinking...... I'm full of shit, this is BS..... blah blah blahh. Luckily for me I didn't limit myself to opiates I loved KETAMINE! I beat about %90 of all opiate withdrawal with steady injections, IM. I went through about a 10ml bottle a day over the coarse of a week and came out on top and with a different, yet somewhat twisted, look on life.

I said no war stories and check me out.... war stories....

anyways. I got back on dope for another 4 year bender this time my K hook up was Locked up...... oh the tangled webs we weave. I had to quit dope... I HAD TO! Checked into A treatment center, The Hope House" HA! the only "hope" I got was three new solid dope connects. anyways.... They didn't have suboxone, or Ketamine (lol), when I was there. They gave me clonodine, Blood Pressure meds to help cope with the withdrawals.... HA! BS! they gave me flexeril for achy mussels and a slew of other crap that really didn't do shit for me other than make me feel worse then I was already feeling. 30 days finally out of rehab.

2 days after getting out of rehab I was back on Heroin. Fuck me! Writing this down just seams to pathetic...... anyways. During my last bender of heroin, I thought maybe if I can get away from Baltimore maybe, just maybe I could beat it, even though everything I learned in rehab says it wouldn't work.

I move to Danville Virginia.... YEEE FUCKIN HA! Their was NOTHING to do there except smoke crack with my supposed clean sister who was took me under her wing. The only people I knew there was my crackhead sister and all her crackhead friends.... once I finally got over the last of the heroin withdrawals I got a job at Outback Steak house" Let me stop......

Are you seeing a pattern here, and I'm not talking about the shit spelling, another fucking restaurant job. WHY!?

I Probably don't even need to tell you what happens outback at the Outback. I don't know how it happened but I managed to squeeze in a GF through all this and turned her into a full blown heroin addict in just a short month. We would pull our money drive 7 hours to Baltimore to get GOOD dope, risking getting ripped off or popped by the cops than turn right back around and drive another 7 hours, 9 if your dumbass gets caught in rush hour traffic, back to Danville, Virginia. Lets wrap this up.....

Said GF gets pregnant, I kind of had an epiphany, and I got arrest twice one thrown out of my car at busy ass gas station in the middle of the ghetto in Bmore, they literally stripped off EVERY piece of clothing,handcuffed me and laid me down on the side off the road, during rush hour, face first. They ransacked my car and found nothing, You all know why they didn't find anything........ That's where my bottom, lol, Rock bottom happened. I'm reliving it all over again ........... My bottom was when I grabbed 6 $20 vials out of my..... Bottom and did them one by one by one by one by one by one...... wow......

My GF had no intentions on quitting since she was A LOT younger than myself. Pregnant..... What the hell was I going to to with a baby, a heroin addict GF, and me and my fucked up situation.

We, Pregnant GF and ME, move in to my parents house, came clean with them with most of whats going on and asked for help. I really. REALLY wanted it. Something ate away at me when I found out that I was going to be a father. Once we moved in their was no more heroin for me. The detox was something I can't even put into words, however, you probably all know ohhh to well. The worst part for me was the psychological part, yeah the aches and insomnia, barfing and shitting bile like acid every 15 min was bad, but the psych..... about day 5 of no heroin I go to suboxone, been on it now for close to 4 years..... I tapered down from 3 8mg a day to 2 1/2 8mgs a day for 3 weeks to 2 8mg a day for 3 weeks to 1 1/2 8mg for 3 weeks to 1 8mg for 3 weeks. After 1 8mg for 3 weeks I went to 3/4 for 2 weeks then 1/2 8mg for 2 weeks.

I felt NO withdrawal until the last day on 1/2 8mg. I still don't get it. I felt fine all the other 13 days at just a 1/2 8mg, why withdrawal now? For the next 5 days my withdrawal got worse, not as bad as dope but I felt like shit.

I had 2 8mg pills left. I chopped up 1 into 4 quarters, leaving me 4 2mg and 1 8mg and finito!! I took a 1/4 for four days until I was left with my last 8mg pill. Fuck it. I took the whole 8mg for my last day. Figured I could get in a full day of spinnin records without shittin myself in the middle of a fat double drop!

It's funny because I am now on day 5 and this has got to be the weakest ass withdrawal I've ever experienced. My Psych prescribed me 100mg of seroquel, for sleep which works okay. Ive tried them all. 3mg lunesta 10 mg ambien, 12.5 AmbienCR, 100mg Trazadone, melatonin BS. Seroquel is mainly used to treat people with schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder, however, it is also used as an alternative sleep aid. My doctor also prescribed me Klonopin. He prescribed it take 2 .5mg twice daily, a total of 2mg of benzodiazapam, which I also used to be addict to at one stage in my live only it was Ativan.

Now remember I'm only on day 5, fuck it in 4 hours it will be day 6,

make that day 6 and on a scale of 1 - 10. 1 being completely normal no dependency, er Human. and 10 being curled around a toilet lying in your own vomit and diarrhea looking like leo from BB diaries. I would have to say I am a 1.5 not even a 2. I can't explain it... don't get me wrong I get a wave or 3 throughout the day that puts that 1.5 to maybe a 3 but this whole Suboxone withdrawal is HORRIBLE thing is just not true.

My doctor said said the 1st day with no suboxone wont be that bad, however, with every passing day it will slowly get worse and worse untill about the 1 week mark and then you'll feel your worst for that week. On day 14 your body should slowly ascend back to normal just as quickly as it went from normal to


Plain Insane 7 years ago

Seroquilt Klonaman

Buddy, the worst may be on the way although I hope not. I was on 16mg of sub everyother day for 5 years. When i decided to jump I said f-it i'm done. The first 5 days I had no w/d symtoms at all. I thought I was superman. Day 6 started feeling bad, that was 26 days ago and I've suffered severly since then all while still working 10 hrs a day. 3 weeks of no more than 2 hrs of broken sleep a night and several nights with absolutely no sleep. 25mg of ambien cr and might as well snorted a bag of C. No sleep whatsoever. The last 2 nights with a combo of valium and lunesta and i've got 5 to 7 hrs. The kicking legs, yawns, sneezes, creepy crawlys all over the entire body, notted stomach and taking everything you have just to get your ass of the floor. Hopefully your body is different but I wouldn't think your out of the woods just yet. i've went thru opiate w/ds many times in my life and have never experienced anything close to the awesome pain i'm going thru now. It seem to linger for months. hang in there and hopefully you won't experience the same thing the majority of us here did. Good luck and be strong.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Oh yeah and damn dude....


Fun Times 7 years ago

subfree- you know lady...i care about some people on this site. u r one of them, i just want u to know that...and hopefully say hi once in awhile so i know how u r doing.

i hope u r ell. i really do. (remember...it was me that kinda said "welcome to the 'group'....we're glad u are here when u felt a little left out. i hope u let us know how u are doing, even if its one sentence. we're here to help each other. i need help too. now that u've been clean...i hope u stil stick around like me).

take care subfree. say hi to hubby, from a concerned online 'friend', whi has gone through and is going through the same stuff as you. be good.


Fun Times 7 years ago

plaininsane: hope work is going cool buddy. i meant to post to u earlier...but i wanted to give it some attention, b/c i was reading about what your wife went through, and it hit me kinda hard. i do wanna give u my opinion abiout something: worry about work when you are there. remember the serenity prayer. worrying about the future can be viewed as a lack of faith in God...although i'm not saying that is the case with you. i am saying that worrying about how things might be "bad' tommorrow never helps me. its a cliche', but i am trying to live one day at a time. i cannot affect my actions tommorrow, today. so i don't try. i can't change what will happen tommorrow, today (other than preparing the best i can), so i don't get my mind worked up about it. tommorrow will come soo enough. i just let it be.

Addiction may be a disease. ill speak for myself..i used for fun (until the drugs used me for fun). it makes me 'reassess' things when i hear stories like your wife's. she had a real disease. there was no impulse for fun with complete disregard to her health and the feelings of others...the total self-centeredness which is addiction, when she became very ill. and she had to face chemotherapy. that really makes me think about just what an arrogant asshole i was. good, honest people faced horrors...and i was a kid (supposed to be a man) just fucking around oblivious to anyone's cares but my own. and everyone's pain...which they didnt cause, and had to live with. it makes me a bit disgusted with myself...but that was the past. i'll let it be, and just keep trying to never act like that again, whether its about drugs or life in general.

even in my addiction i was ( and am really so now) very caring toward others. with one understanding: in my active addiction i was caring and nice and very considerate of others: AFTER I GOT MY DRUGS IN ME. before that...fuck everyone.

it is such a nice thing to care about people, without any kind of twisted 'understanding'. i dont need to be high to try to help someone...if i can. it feels so good to help someone. that is a beter high then drugs to me. i feel good...not 'dirty'. i don't need to be high to express my emotions or how i feel. i don't need to be high to live. so for the first time in my adult life...I am living. I am free. and i am very very grateful. and beyond that, i have a feeling life is going to start getting VERY good. things are lining up in a beautiful way in my life, ever since i put drugs down. Thanks God.

take care everyone.


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Ok... here's the deal... I've been reading the posts & everything, but I was kind of chilling, letting the guys talk.... thank you so much for your kind words Fun Times... maybe I'm insecure, and it helps to know that people care.... I feel the same way, I genuinely care about people on here... there was a huge storm/tornado that came through here Saturday night/morning & the damn lights went out - fired the generators up, but the damn internet was out until this morning - so that's the second reason why I haven't been writing, and the third reason is REALLY BAD. Yeah, I fucked up. I fucked up. I fucked up. I wrestled with telling this.... but I feel like I can tell y'all anything, right? I can't just keep writing on here like it's all good.... I was on the phone with my friend I spoke of way earlier... the one I thought about cutting ties with... she asked did I want some xanax cuz she knew how I had been struggling (the past week has been hell), and it turned into do you want some tramadol, hydros, oxys.. what do you need? Yeah, I took some tramadol this weekend... and I felt normal for the first time in forever. I got stuff done that needed to be done, and I had my personality back I felt like... I'm just being honest. And I don't really feel bad about doing it... what does that say?? Am I unclean now?? They're all gone... I made sure of that, and I don't plan on getting any more, and I certainly don't plan on taking any opiates... especially subs... and I don't encourage this behavior at all... it happened, I had to tell someone... and I have to be honest about how I feel... be real, right Fun Times?! You ARE the one that made me feel welcome on this site... and I was starting to feel weird about that again so what you said really helped me... despite all the drama (which keeps it interesting) I do think you are one of the most sincere and caring on here, and I'm glad you didn't leave... and I'm not going anywhere either... I read this site everyday, always checking in (does that make me a dork?) Said it before, will say it again, I couldn't have made it through without this hub.... without the people here... can't say Thank you enough... and I obviously still need help and encouragement too - it's awesome having my husband by my side to go through this with, BUT it kind of sucks when I'm feeling worse than he is... I mean, I'm happy he's doing good, don't get me wrong... the lenght of this withdrawal process has just been getting to me... coming up on 6 weeks... but I am feeling better today than I was pre-tramadol, and I'm pretty sure it's totally out of my system now... so I don't think it has anything to do with that... my anxiety is down, and my brain is actually not on FIRE... wow... it feels weird... my brain has been fuzzy/burning for over a month - my withdrawals aren't gone, but they are very mild today so I'm thankful for that... I asked earlier... and I'll ask again, one last time... Merchant, you out there?? I prayed for her so much y'all... I think she gave in. Damn that sucks if she did. Plaininsane: you're doing great, and I'm happy to hear it... wanted to let you know that in the beginning those sleeping pills did the same thing to me... I would take one & be horny and wired.... that's what it did to me anyway... then after about two to three weeks I noticed when they actually started making me groggy... just takes time... but I knew that was your main problem, no sleep... and stress of work and everything... just to let you know my husband is off the sleeping stuff period, and he's sleeping VERY well... and it always got bad for me at night too... I'm anxious to see how tonight will be... I'll say this... no, melatonin didn't work in the beginning at all... but during week 5 my husband took it for about a week & it worked really well... he always had a problem falling asleep during the withdrawals, and I always could fall asleep but not stay asleep & it helped him to fall asleep so I dunno. Hope all is well with everyone... oh, and I was very happy to hear you feel almost 100% all the time now Fun Times... gives me hope... oh, and Queenie sounds like a really good woman, dont' fuck it up..lol.. check back soon...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I don't want y'all to get the wrong idea... I do feel bad about what I did, and I'm not going to do it again... I just need to forget about it, right?


Fun Times 7 years ago

ALRIGHT!!!!!! SUBFREE IS BACK IN THE HOUSE!!!!!! thats great news, honestly. there is absolutely no reason to even post if you are not honest...i mean really...who are you lying to...a bunch of people that you want to get better (in all fairness) but will never even meet (except the occassional queenie and me...yeah...i'm very lucky). but for each of us...this site is for us. I think i've only 'condemned' posts 3 times...w/o getting into names: 1. i didn't like when my remarks were taken the wrong way about addicts being smart, which wound us as two very nice ladies (u were one...and i apologized) calling the rest of the world stupid. but hey...i apologized and admitted my less than thoughtful response. everyone was hyped up early in withdrawal, and i dont like seeing even normal people getting put down. (if me and quennie wind up married with a couple 9-5s...that will be a dream for me). 2. i didn't like it when another young lady kept calling God the tooth fairy or santa...and i dont apologize for that. im sorry but God is too important to me and others, ESPECIALLY DURING THIS BRUTAL WITHDRAWAL FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE'S FAITH, SOMETHING THAT MIGHT SAVE THEIR LIVES. I DON'T MIND SAYING AT ALL: I WAS ABSOLUTELY RECKLESS AND INSANE IN MY ADDICTION, AND BUT FOR GOD'S MERCY...I DONT BELIEVE I'D BE ALIVE. so if u dont believe in God...dont. dont put the rest of us down. and of course 3. annie's brilliant conclusion (after reading my encouraging post like a spiteful person) that me and a strugling addict named plaininsane...who only wanted help...were the same person...and she knew this cause she taught English, and i was crazy if i thought i was fooloing anyone. in plaininsane's words "annie, you really inspired me. now i realize that you don't even think theRe is a me. that's sad". enough said.

Subfre-first of all...sweetheart...you are clean off opiates. so u took some tramadol. its ok. odds are some of us might slip up...and actually take opiates! it doesn't erase all your hard work. i read u were in tears, and u did what u did with good intentions. i dont think u were trying to get high. u were trying to hold your life togather. thats different. even if you told us that u broke down and took opiates, i would say this with all my heart:

THE SHAME IN ADDICTION IS NOT THAT YOU USE AGAIN. THE SHAME IS NOT GOING BACK AND CONTINUING YOUR RECOVERY AFTER YOU DO. please remember that everyone. you can't dwell on mistakes (if they even are mistakes). the past is history. i said this before and i'll say it again...i dont care how much clean time someone has...i care about how they are doing TODAY. today is all we got...make the next right move today, and all will be well.

plaininsane...ive been on this site for awhile and i shouldve known better than to start with the Bulls and guy talk. this is a recovery site, period. I'll give u my email and we can bullshit about non-recovery stuff there.

and subfree...once again you've made my day. first because of your kind words...which mean very very much to me (cause this withdrawal can be a beast...and helping anyone may just be saving a family or a life...so that feels good). and second, and more importantly: BECAUSE YOU ARE BACK! you know...you're still invited to be a maid of honor. yeah...i want this woman ;)

Cheers Subfree!!!!


Fun Times 7 years ago

better yet subfree...you were not one of the 2 ladies smarter than the world. i'm happy to apology once again!!!!!!


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

I don't want you to take anything I said the wrong way either... I don't care if y'all shoot the breeze... it's cool, really, do it... just don't talk shit about my Cowboys plz... lol... or my Longhorns... Anyway, I was only offended for a split second - knee jerk reaction - I appreciate that you say what you mean and mean what you say, and I wouldn't want anything less, and no need to apologize for anything you have said... I shouldn't have even said despite all the drama... it's not what I really meant... by all means, stand up for what you believe in totally... By the way... since I posted earlier, I am feeling a little worse... damn will this ever end... once again, thank you for your words... I'm going to put it behind me... I just don't want to be a hypocrite (sp), ya know? I don't want anyone to read what I posted & go take something... I was worried about that... I'm over it, it's done... I can't go back... another bad thing about having an addict husband and wife: you use together... you follow each other... sucks... plus it costs twice as much..LOL... I'm done though... keep on keepin on....


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Oh, and Fun Times: you have saved my life... Thank you... I'm pushing for your happiness... you need a good woman & deserve one...


PlainInsane 7 years ago

Want to make it quick cause i'm still at work.

Subfree

Your honesty will set you free. Your O.K. Your truly a beautiful inspiring women. Hang in there and don't get discouraged. You're going to be fine. I'll be praying for you and your hubby.

Fun Times

Your right I need to take it a day at a time and not worry about tonights sleep or whats going to happen tomorrow. God will take care of me. I know that for a fact. Yeah give me your email or a phone number- would love to talk to you in person sometime. Also your right again, My wife went thru pain I can't even imagine. How would it feel waking up every morning and not knowing if this could be your last day, I mean nobody knows whent hey're going to go but when you have cancer theres always going to be that thought of not making it. Having a o.k. day. Will post when I get home. Don't take this wrong but I love you people, without you people I'd have never made it this far. Tomorrows 4 weeks!!!!


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

And you never know... if y'all did get married in Florida.. I'd come.. I LOVE Florida... sorry, I don't like cold weather... Chicago versus Florida... come on, man... I'd be a beach bum if I didn't get sunburnt so easily...


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

Thanks Plain insane... I know what it's like to have someone in your life go through something like that... like I mentioned before, my daughter almost died, and we were struggling with her for the first two years of her life... actually, 3... she couldn't hold her head up for a long time, sat up late, crawled late, walked late... because of the bleeding in and around her brain... not knowing if she would have permanent brain damage...she had seizures all the time... she was in speech therapy when she was 3... but her brain eventually healed itself, and now she is excelling at everything she does... school, everything... that's great your wife has been in remission - she got through it, and I know it made her stronger... we love you too man... think you're through the worst, worst? keep us updated


subfreechickadee 7 years ago

And Fun Times is right... I keep having to remind myself, take it ONE day at a time... don't worry about tomorrow... or tonight...


queenie 7 years ago

hey, where is Merchant?


    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article