The Suboxone Ceiling Effect - Why Some People Need Methadone

Detox...

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Suboxone (buprenorphine) is a pretty great new drug, and for a lot of people, it's just a far preferable alternative to methadone and especially to naltrexone. When suboxone works well, withdrawal pains are largely avoided, and the eventual detox off of Suboxone is considered far less painful than for methadone.

Clients not seeking to taper off opiates at all are also well served by Suboxone, and it can work just like methadone as a drug for years of pain free opioid maintenance.

But Suboxone is not for everyone. Some people, especially people coming off of heavy use of short acting pain pills such as Oxycontin or hydrocodone, or heavy use of illicit opiates such as heroin – may find that even high doses of Suboxone do not offer them the replacement effects they need. For some people, even maximum doses won't keep withdrawal pains away – and that is because of the ceiling effect of the drug.

The Ceiling Effect

To understand why suboxone will work well for some people and not for others, it is helpful to understand the terms opiate agonist, opiate antagonist and partial opiate agonist.

All opiates work their magic in the brain by binding to neural receptors called opioid receptors. These receptors can be thought of as key holes, and drugs such as heroin (or any opiates) can be thought of as keys. When heroin floods the brain – these "keys" enter the receptors "the keyholes" and turn them on. Once these receptors are activated – all of the effects of the opiate are unleashed – and the user will feel euphoria, analgesia, etc. Basically, turning the key gets you high.

Opiate Agonists

Drugs that activate these opiate receptors are called "Opiate Agonists". Opiate Agonists are straight forward keys for the keyholes.

Examples of opiate agonists include:

  • Heroin
  • Methadone
  • Vicodin
  • Percacet
  • Morphine
  • Codeine

Opiate Antagonists

Opiate antagonists are sort of like broken keys for those opioid receptors in the brain. They fit in the opioid receptors but they do not turn them on – And significantly, while they sit in the receptor keyhole slots, other opioids cannot get in these keyholes to turn them on.

Opiate Antagonists include drugs such as Naloxone or Naltrexone, and they are used to help people overcome opiate addictions. When a person takes Naltrexone, for example, even if she were to take heroin afterwards, she would not get high. All of her opioid receptors would be filled with the opiate antagonist drug.

Partial Opiate Agonists

Suboxone belongs to a third class of drugs, called the partial agonists.

These partial agonists are "keys" very much like the agonists, and they do fit in the receptors and turn them on. They are called partial agonists, however, as they can only turn these receptors on partially.

Suboxone for example, will fit the opiate receptor key holes and will turn these on a little bit, producing some typical opiate effects and sensations. It is only a partial agonist though, as it has a fairly low ceiling – that is, at a certain point, taking more of the drug will not increase the effects felt. It can only turn the keys a small amount and once you fill all the key-holes, taking more of the drug won’t increase the effects.

Why is the Ceiling Effect Important?

The ceiling effect of Suboxone increases the safety of the medication but limits who will be able to use it.

The ceiling effect is good in some ways. It makes Suboxone less likely abused and far less easy to O.D. on – and because of this, Suboxone can usually be taken home, saving the client from regular or even daily trips to the methadone clinic.

The ceiling effect of Suboxone holds true for all effects – that is, after a certain point, taking more of the medication won’t increase any of the effects of the drug. Taking a higher dosage of Suboxone won't result in much intoxication, but it also won’t cause much risk of respiratory depression and possible overdose death.

After the Suboxone ceiling of effect has been reached – taking more Suboxone has no effect – it won't make you higher, and it also won't keep slowing your breathing like heroin or other opiates would.

But The Ceiling Limits its Use

Because of the ceiling effect, people with heavy opiate habits may not get enough out of Suboxone to keep withdrawal pains away.

Suboxone has "High Affinity" for opiate receptors. If you were, for example, to take high doses of heroin and Suboxone at the same time – the Suboxone would fill the opiate receptor "keyholes" and the heroin would have nowhere to go, and thus could not get you high. Suboxone has a higher affinity for the opiate receptors than other opiates do, and will win the fight to fill those key holes.

People with trying to overcome heavy drug habits may need more opiate receptor activation than Suboxone can give them – they may need a drug that can turn those opiate keyholes a little further just to keep the feelings of withdrawal away.

Unfortunately, if a person that wasn't getting enough relief from Suboxone tried to take another opiate at the same time – to get rid of their withdrawal pains, the Suboxone would be filling all of the opiate receptor "key-holes" and any additional opiates would have no effect.

For example:

If you had a heavy heroin habit and took some Suboxone – and still found that you were feeling withdrawal pains – taking more heroin at that point to chase those pains away would not work. The heroin would have no place in the brain to activate – all the keyholes would be filled with Suboxone.

Some People Will Probably Need Methadone

Most people prefer Suboxone to Methadone, but some people will not find the relief they need from suboxone, and will have to at least start off on Methadone.

Methadone has no ceiling effect. If you take more methadone you get a proportionally greater affect in the body. People that need more symptoms relief can take a slightly higher dose of methadone and find what they need.

In general, anyone needing more than 40mg of methadone daily will not find Suboxone effective.

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Comments 155 comments

Debra 8 years ago

What is the combonation suboxone has with alcohol? Just curious.


recovering addict profile image

recovering addict 8 years ago Author

Hi Debra,

Suboxone and alcohol are not really a great combination. Both are CNS depressants, and although Suboxone is pretty safe on its own, it gets a lot riskier to take it combined with certain other drugs, most notably drugs like benzodiazipines (there have been overdose deaths from this combination) but also with alcohol. In a nutshell - alcohol increases the risks of respiratory depression.

Here is a link to the Suboxone manufacturer's website for safety information on drug interactions and otherr matters:

http://www.suboxone.com/patients/safety/


Self Destruction profile image

Self Destruction 8 years ago

Hey....I don't really believe that suboxone's ceiling effect has ANYTHING to do with suboxone NOT working on heavy opiate users. The state in which I live in has now mandated that any NEW suboxone patients CANNOT be prescribed more than 2 8mg. tablets a day. The only exception to that rule is people switching from methadone to suboxone. That is because methadone is an opiate (with NO blocker I must add) and one of the strongest ones too, that people are taking EVERYDAY for maintence. Because they have been taking that same amount religiously for a while, doctors don't know what the effect of dropping them so drastically to suboxone. Another thing about suboxone and the program is that most doctors require you to either go to rehab or a detox center.....so the ceiling effect of suboxone does not effect the treatment program.

Of course some people would get more relief from methadone. All it is is a government controlled form of heroin! It is a pain killer. And if you wanted you could go do a bag of heroin and have no side effects from it. 90% of the time you wouldn't get kicked out of the clinic either. Suboxone is the best program out there in MY opinion because of the blocker and the rules.


Nick 8 years ago

To be honest SUBOXONE only has this limited effect on people because it's only a partial opioid agonist (Buprenorphine) and the full antagonist it has in it is Neloxone which is used almost ONLY for opioid overdose and the argument about it not working on heavy users is somewhat psycological in the fact that such users are used to and acustomed to expecting the full opioid effects that the full agonists give them but find that when they use a mixed agonist/antagonist they go into a withdrawl of varying degrees depending on the person so are dissapointed understandably.The issue of using benzodiazepines with SUBOXONE is a valid one because there is a risk of respiratory deppression when the two are mixed. I have overdosed many times in this way and it is most often only given in combination when in a hospital setting such as detox clinics where they have resuccitation equipment. When switching from a full agonist (especially long acting ones like methadone) to a partial agonist/antagonist there is obviously a changeover period that must be taken into concideration from the time of the last dose of the first med to the first dose of the second med and this time period is based on the duration of action of the two drugs ie methadone has a long duration of effect (upto 48 hours) depending on the dose so the most reliable way to gauge when to initiate the second drug is to wait until the first symptoms of withdrawl kick in. This way you can be as sure as possible that as low an amount as possible of the first drug is still in the blood stream however you may still experience some opioid withdrawl symptoms but they will be minimal. After this just proceed as planned with your detox and going too slow is better than going too fast so to avoid relapse.


kendall  7 years ago

So I got one for everyone? I take subutex the same as suboxone and my body reacts differently then 99% of those who are on it! The correct way to take your suboxone is 1x daily. You shouldn't have to take more than that, Well I take a dose in the morning, start feeling hot flashes and withdrawl symptoms around 6 hrs later and then by late evening I get the same withdrawl symptoms!! Beside that, it turned my life upside so I think? Ever since I got on to suboxone which has been 3 to 4 years I have been dealing with pain throughout my body, typical of fibromyalgia and im a male thats 26 yrs old and athletic and other physical issues! suboxone is great for most it's a miracle but be careful, always try your hardest to not have to go down that road!


ELLIOTT 7 years ago

I just switched back to suboxone after a relapse. Wanting to get clean again after a few months of heavy use, I didnt want to take the time to find a Dr. to get Sub. I started dosing methadone,over a few months I was up to 140 mgs. Long story short I wanted back on the sub. without tapering off I took a sub HOLY SHIT ill advised. I went into immediate horrible withdrwals, since I have felt like shit taking benzos and waiting for those days to come back when I would take a suboxone and feel great all day. I am worried guys that the methadone did something that the suboxone cant replace. I am going to try and fight not to get back on methadone, but the once "miracle drug" sub is not cutting it rite now. I know the decision process was al together stupid but here I stand just wanting my life back but like all adicts I guess I want it RITE NOW! just needed to vent


dana 7 years ago

I have been a heavy opiod users for years. I started taking suboxone 3months ago and I cant say enough about how great I think this medication is. My life is finally managable now. I am worried that I may have to go off it due to the cost of the medication but for now I am not planning to detox, what this medicatiion has done for me is give me my life back and I am grateful for that


dana 7 years ago

I have been a heavy opiod users for years. I started taking suboxone 3months ago and I cant say enough about how great I think this medication is. My life is finally managable now. I am worried that I may have to go off it due to the cost of the medication but for now I am not planning to detox, what this medicatiion has done for me is give me my life back and I am grateful for that


7 years ago

My son took something that looks like saboxone, but he was nodding and very hostile in the morning....any ideas on what that might be?


winston smith 7 years ago

if your son doesnt have a heavy opiate habit then the suboxone could affect him in that way... my girlfriend, who isnt a drug user, took suboxone once last year and was extremely high. its tuesday the 17th and i just took my last dose of methadone... im about to start a 2 day withdrawal to switch to suboxone and i am scared to death of the pain. i tried to go off methadone abruptly about a year and a half ago and thought i was going to die it hurt so bad. stomach cramps, hot/cold sweats, runny nose, weak aching body... ahhhh jesus christ im gonna have to go thru it again this week....ive been at 30 miligrams for a month and my highest dose ever was 65. im 25 and ive been an opiate needle user since i was about 20 years old. ive been going to the methadone clinic for a little over 2 years and it honestly saved my life. i got myself enrolled in barber school and now i work full time making great money. i got back into politics and have been living with my girlfriend for about a year and a half. methadone allowed me to build my life and now i have too much to lose to go back to drugs. i dont have any magical advice on how to get clean, only to abandon the user lifestyle completely, cut off all your user friends and places you got high, get a support network, TRY TO STAY BUSY..boredom is one of the things that got me everytime... chew valerian root or some other natural sleep aid to help you get some rest.. i always relapsed because when i stopped using i couldn't sleep for days and days..take multivitamins, drink lots of water.... i am planning to get on suboxone and wean off in about 6 months. i know i can do it, im just dreading the 2 day withdrawal! good luck everyone -winston


cybaby99 7 years ago

Getting onto suboxone while opiates are in your system whether it be oxys, morphine, heroine, or methadone is going to cause you to withdrawel because of the naloxone in the subs. It is the same medicine they use on you when you go into the er for drug OD, it kicks all the opiates off your receptors so you start to withdrawel. The buprnorphine in the suboxone will then replace the once existing opiates on your receptors slowing easing you back out of withdrawels. My doctor is great about it. I had done 4 OC 80s the day before going in for sub treatment. First 8 mg I went into withdrawels. After taking two more 8 mg of sub within the next 24 hours I was back out of withdrawels and feeling great even had a short buzz. Just get through the first 24-48 hours of dosing. If you are still withdraweling after a dose of sub you need more. Speak up to your doctor and tell them you are in pain. I do not live in a state where they have a limit on the amount of sub you can take a day. Of course the maximum your body has room for is 32 mg (the ceiling which is referred to ) but where I live if that is what I need that is what I am allowed. If I take more than 32 mg I do not feel abit of a difference and it ends up being a waste. Oh yeah if you have to get through withdrawels from opiates before the next step try valium if you can get it prescribed of course. It always helps me to get to sleep so that I don't feel a thing. It doesn't cure it but it sure does help.


7 years ago

I beg to differ with the context of this article. I an a nurse treating the homeless and at risk for homelessness with Suboxone. Most of my patients were 1-3gram per day heroin users, or high dose Oxycontin users. Because we have an extensive medical/disease model that incorporates psychiatric and behavioral health approaches as well, we have very high retention rates, with very low doses. As a matter of fact, most patients don't start out with more than 8mg per day, and don't complaing about the withdrawal pain you speak of.

The difference seems to be motivation and a willingness to change. If people are committed and in an environment they feel secure in, the opportunities for personal growth are endless. Taking strides in moderation is key.

I have had several post-methadone patients that were on well over 80mg per day switch to Suboxone. It is possible, and their lives are improved because of it.

It takes work to be in recovery, and present in the world in a healthy way. Where you want to go in your recovery all depends on what is your motivation.


Shasta  7 years ago

I think going to suboxone is no different than Methadone other than it is easier to get and be on with no one knowing. If you can not kick the opiate through straight withdraw, know this: Make sure you are in danger of relapse or death before you go on Suboxone. They finaly come up with a "private" answer to addiction. This is after giving out opiates like candy for years. Isnt it strange that they happen to have this help that just recently any doctor can write out a script for subboxone or soon will be !! Just measure out your options. Tough it out. If you are on Heroin then Suboxone might be your answer. If you are taking pills, my friends then suck it up and deal with 5-7 days of withdraw or 2-4 weeks or more with subboxone. Good luck to everyone!


juicy 7 years ago

suboxone is awful! i just detoxed from it and it took me 2 weeks to recoop even though i was only taking a tiny piece, like 1 mg. My stomach was a hot mess and my legs were flopping all over the place. No sleep, sweats and extra crapping.....so gross! In my opinion, you are better off doing strait opiates and detoxing in 5 days. Afterall, we all know this cant go on for ever.....right?


derek 7 years ago

I am currently on 110 mg of methodone. I can honestly say that it has been a life saver for me. I was an iv heroin user for 9 years and took opiates like oxy's morphine and diluadid for years. I smoked opium for the first time when i was 14 I am 32 now so I have had a love for opiates for many years. Today thanks to methodone I have my kids back in my life I have a great job and everything i want. I am going to switch from methodone to suboxone eventually but my doctor advises me to stay on methodone for at least another years or two which would be 3 years total. Anyways without the choices of these drugs available to addicts who have finally want help we would have nowhere to turn. Whatever route you choose stick with it your life can and will turn around


DUCK 7 years ago

2 weeks ago I was prescribed Suboxon only 24 hous after my last dose of methadone. For 2 days I thought I was going to die and felt it was a better option than what I felt. On day 5 I was back to demanding work with no problem. Please regardless of what anyone including the Doctor says be in severe withdrawal before taking Suboxone. I was on 45 mg of methadone for 5+ years so I still have some mild withdrawal symptoms but am able to work okay. Methadone became my drug of choice once joining a clinic that made more of an effort to keep me on than any dealer I ever new. Determination and what I have been through are motivating factors. By the way I only used illegal opiates for 2 years following 13 years of sobriety from my old drug of choice alcohol. One operation and lack of support helped me justify taking opiates longer than needed.


DUCK 7 years ago

15 days off Methadone still testing positive today, thought someone may need to know this.


douglas  7 years ago

hey Duck I have some questions for you about methadone withdrawl. can you call me at 443-477-2055. my name is doug


laquanda 7 years ago

yes you can test positive for methadone for 3 weeks after stopping


Tom 7 years ago

I was doing about 500mg/day morphine for several years (plus many other opiates, including methadone), and finally hit a point where I knew I had to do something.

I knew also that I couldn't go on methadone becuase I love the stuff too much and would just keep on partying, and that's not good.

I've been on Suboxone, 16mg a day, for the last two months or so, and I've got to admit that this stuff really is a wonder drug. Personally I don't care if I take it forever, it's a huge improvement over the hell that I was in.

One thing I've come to realize is that this drug will only work correctly if you are honestly ready to move on and leave your habit behind. Most people that abuse drugs are self-medicating for some reason or another, and while Suboxone does give you a mild buzz (very mild), it doesn't allow you to push any of the issues aside you may need to deal that caused you to abuse in the first place. The drug is strange in that even with a high dose (if you were a heavy user), you're still essentially stone-cold sober, things just have a gentle glow about them.

The feeling is more like the way antidepressants are SUPPOSED to work, instead of the way they do, with all of the screwed up side-effects.

Some people need methadone because, to borrow a phrase from REM, some people just can't handle the weight of the world. Since I've been going to the clinic--which does methadone also--I've met people with some SERIOUS problems, far more serious than any "problem" I've ever thought I've had - we're talking lifelong physical and sexual abuse, abandonment, mental illness, all kinds of fun stuff.

The way I see it, if you've had a completely miserable existance from the second you popped out of your drug-addicted, prostitute mother, a shot of methadone is the least you can do for yourself. Some people can deal with that and move past it, but a lot of people can't... and I can't fault them for it.


ian 7 years ago

been on suboxone for three months was into all sorts for 10 years but have job home no withdrawls it works for me .


B B 7 years ago

I have been a user over ten years. began suboxone treatment about a year and a half ago. I thought it was great because there is so little supervision and I always had the pills to stop from getting sick. I get high for a week. Then Suboxone would "save" me from withdrawls.

Now I want to taper and stay clean. But I am finding the detox and withdrawl period is much longer than with just the junk. So I basically got what I deserve. Yea for me.


shasta 7 years ago

What will happen if you take suboxone 2 days in a row, 8 mg the first day then 16mg the next.. (this was for heavy withdrawls at the ER) then get sent home with some to last you until the suboxone clinic appointment but i have 3 10 mg methadone pills that i just took, this being 24 hours after the suboxone.. the suboxone was not helping me.. i dont know if it just was not enough or what so i took the 30 mg of methadone.. what now??


Tired of the Whining 7 years ago

you know what gets me, is how every single addict taking Sub says 'it gave me my life back'. REALLY? Trading one drug for another is taking control of your life? NOTHING can GIVE you your life back,,you have to WANT IT then FIGHT for it. but, most addicts are weak and cant deal with real life,,,thats why they are addicts. Suboxne wont make the reason you became an addict go away,,,all it does is make the pain stop. Pain, I might add, was brought on by getting high. No sympathy here. Lifes rough, wear a helmet.


your an idiot 7 years ago

how dare you speak to people like that. You are very callous and ignorant...your tired of the whining?....well then stay off the site!!!! I think that if most people knew ahead of time about the addiction or severe withdrawal effects, they would not opt to use them. Others have been placed on pain meds by doctors for medical purposes. If you have never experienced opiate withdrawal you certainly can't relate...but that certainly doesn't mean you have to be an - - -hole!!!!!!!


badmoves 7 years ago

i am on 140 mgs of methadone. i went to a suboxone doc. and he told me to stop the methadone go into withdrawal and take 1-5 8mg suboxone as needed. does anyone know if that will even put a dent in my withdrawal symptoms,cause i know ideally i should be at 30mgs of meth before trying suboxone.but my clinic won't drop me down.help.please.god bless


Coley 7 years ago

I have made an appointment to go see a Doctor about Saboxone. I was wondering if someone could prepare me for what I am about to get into. I am a one and a half year opiate addict and I have recently decided I don't want this for my life anymore. I need to stop but I am so terrified of the withdrawls ive been through in the past. Can someone just maybe fill me in on how the sub. works and how it will physically make me feel. I'm so scared!!!


lyricsingray 7 years ago

Amazing writing you ink. Inspiring me as a recovering drug addict and methadone prisoner your work is inspiring. I just released a mini movie from my pub dearaddict.ca posts tomorrow evening but I released the movie this afternoon. I would love your opinion if you have the time and also publish which ever related topic or new piece in my publication. If you like it and have something already written like this piece especially, would you consider letting me publish it - your words need to be heard, no doubt. Here we go ahhh

http://www.dearaddict.ca/kim@dearaddict.com/Movie_...

Thanks

Godspeed

Kimberly gray

www.dearaddict.ca It's easier to just go there and the movie is there

www.fade2gray@rogers.com

www.kim@dearaddict.ca

Great Article, been there, oh my god, I'd die before doing that again and getting of it almost killed me anyway! You know the gig. :-)


b14ck 7 years ago

I know nothing at all really about opioid or opiates, All I know is I took 1/4th of a soboxone pill, Not ever being addicted to opiates, I could easily get sick off taking 3 percacets, and the soboxone I took Kept me sky high for almost 10 hours, off 1/4th a pill.. It was actually a lovely feeling, But not something id care to go through again, Very weird as Im reading other comments on how it is supposed to work and the way it affected me was just as if I had taken methadone except without horrible withdrawls.


MICHELLE LOYD 7 years ago

I AM ON DISABILITY FOR SEVERAL PAINFUL CONDITIONS...OVER TEN YRS TIME MY PAIN CLIN DDRS HAD ME USING 80 MG OXYCONTINS 4 TIMES A DAY PLUS OXYCODONE 30 MGS FIVE TIMES A DAY PLUS THE DILAUDID 4 MG THREE TIMES A DAY ..I BECAME A SEVERE PRESCRRIPTION ADDICT TO THESES MEDS..I CAME CLOSE TO OVERDOSING MANY TIMES..I LOST MY KIDS MY LIFE..I CARED ABOUT NOTHING BUT MY PILLS..I MET A GREAT MAN LAST YR WHO HELPED ME THRU IT AND I REALLY WANTED A NORMAL LIFE AGAIN FOR US..SO I WENT ON THE SUBOXONE AND IN TWO MONTHS TIME I AM ON 32 MGS A DAY IM A TOTRALLY DIFF PERSAON..I HAVE THE PERSON I KNEW BWFORE ALL THE MEDS BACK...IM DOING GREAT AND IT HELPS MY CHRONIC PAIN ALSO IT BEEIN A NARCOTIC ANYHOW..ID RECOMMEND IF UR SUFFERING AND LOST IN DRUG HELL LIKE I WAS PLEASE TERY SUBOXONE...YOU DESERVE TO DO IT FOR URSELF....PLEASE DONT GIVE UP..THIS MED CAN SAVE YOU.....


Tim m 7 years ago

Im on 125mg of methadone im about to start a rapid decrease of 10mg a day is it safe to start suboxone the day after i get to 30mg of methadone


ken 7 years ago

That is a difficult strategy. It can be done but it is hard to discern why any person would go through all that.

There are more humane options.

Get a second opinion!


WilliamR 7 years ago

Frankly, I find the article informative, and very well-written, save one major flaw: the central point is, to be blunt, bullsh**. I went on Suboxone straight from the streets, in the midst of a heroin habit that, when described, shocks most people including Addictions Counselors. I was doing, daily, between 3-5 bundles, just to maintain. Obviously, getting "high" was not even a real possibility anymore. I had to have at least 2 bundles just to get going/wake up, and even then I would still not feel great and be dopesick until I had closer to 3 or more bundles. I went to a hospital, who referred me to a detox/rehab where they put me on a dose of 3 8mg tabs/day. I really didn't think that would even begin to touch my withdrawals, but it did. I felt great after a day or tow on it. I understand the ceiling effect (and I'm pretty sure most addicts prescribed Suboxone do too; what addict wouldn't at least TRY to see how high you could get at first on a legal dose? :) but I don't think that is a factor as to whether or not Suboxone is appropriate for someone or not. I think it's crap....some people just aren't ready to quit, but are forced into SOME kind of "therapeutic" drug program (i.e. Methadone) due to financial reasons, spousal pressure, work, etc..) and find out: "wow, I can do this legally, satisfy my boss/wife/whatever and STILL get high!" The thing that is not mentioned about Methadone is the horrific long-term withdrawals. Methadone gets into your bone marrow, and if you ever thought about cutting your legs off when coming off heroin, you would be at the Hardware store looking for the instrument to actually do it. It's HELL. Suboxone WD's aren't a breeze either, due to it's long half-life (it stays in your system much much much longer than heroin or other common opiates), but I think those are far less greater than that of Methadone.


lee 7 years ago

i have been a heavy opiate user for about 15 yrs. when i finally decided enuff is enuff i went to the methadone clinic and wuz on 105 migs a day for 4 yrs. after gettin down to 30 migs a day, i just sucked it up and stopped goin to the clinic. yes, it sucked, but i made it. but because i didnt fully understand what it ment to be an addict, i started useing again about 8 months later. i simpley thought i could take a couple pills and it would be ok. i thought i could handle it and not lose control. NOT THE CASE. so after 3 more yrs on the street, i went back to the clinic. MISTAKE! i really wish i would have given suboxone a chance, but becuzz it wuz a pill, i didnt. now after only 4 days of suboxone, i am amazed at how much better i feel! methadone is a trap. they start you low and take you up, then you gotta get back down and that can take yrs. suboxone is just the opposite,u star high and work your way down. think about, do some askin around, and give it a chance.


rayray 7 years ago

I was addicted to heroin for 5 years. I lost everything and was spending 900/1200 dollars/week on dope. I was doing 3 bundles/day. Finally, went to detox...once I started kicking, they gave me suboxone weaning me from 6/mg to 2/mg over 3 days. I got out and I still felt like shit. Found psych to prescribe suboxone and he put me on 8 mg. 3x/day. Finally I felt a little better. I have been on it for 7 months and haven't done a bag in all that time. Loved dope, hated the lifestyle. Suboxone gets rid of the cravings and lets me live a normal life. Some people in recovery think that this is a cop out and that you're not really "clean" if you're on it. I disagree. I'm not getting high off it, so its not like I'm using. Wasn't really getting high off dope anymore either, so this was a great trade off. Only problem is that when I've tried to wean myself off of it, I start craving dope again and it scares the sh*t out of me. So long as I take the pills, I'm good. Wish I didn't need them, but I do. So far as other peoples opinions are concerned... unless you've lived through the hell of heroin addiction and suffered the withdraw ... you're in no position to judge my behavior.


Almost there 7 years ago

I am on 10 miligrams of Methodone and about to be on 5 miligrams the day after tomorrow. I don't feel that bad dropping 5 miligrams every 3 days(I was on 195 miligrams, dropped 5 a day until 30 miligrams) anyway, I have about 22 tabs of Sub. and I feel like taking some. Will I go into withdrawl if I take a 2 miligram tab if my last 10 mil. dose of methodone was 7 hours ago? Your input would be appreciated. The last time I tried to take sub I was on 40 mil. of methodone, waited 2 days, then took 7 tabs of 2 mil. suboxone and I wanted to die cause I went into horrible withdrawl. My plan is now to take just one or two 2 mil. suboxone tablets, but I feel like I will just do what I did before. The naltraxone will just make me go into withdrawl since methodone is all in my bones and won't leave for weeks, as per previous posts. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to input their experiences here, they all helped and I am better off for it. To be honest, I know that I am wanting to take the sub that is in my medicine cabinet because I think there is a slight chance that I can get high. I am such a loser. However, I bet you that I will end up taking the sub before I am in total withdrawl from the methodone which should be 5 days from now when I have my last 5 miligram dose. I should wait shouldn't I? Your commments please. Thank you and God bless everyone.


cole 7 years ago

Ive been on sub for 6 days now started out at 8 then 12 then 16mg a day. Stayed at 16mg for past 3 days,i used to use 120mg of morphine and 4 to 5 perc 10 a day. 16 mg of sub a day is helping but i got a prescription for 14 8mg suboxone today and it cost me 96 dollars not counting had to pay the doc at the clinic 75 bucks just for the script. It;s way too expensive and i'm thinking about swithing to methadone when i go back next week. I took methadone 7 years ago and when i quit the withdrawls wre awful. The sub doesn't help my pain like the methadone does either. i have two compressed discs and a cracked vertabrae in my back but i cannot take my pain pills like i'm supposed to. i think methadone would be my best option.


REN 7 years ago

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jazon 6 years ago

methadone works better than suboxone


michellefromwisconsin 6 years ago

I have been on suboxone for over 1 yr now.Can anyone tell me why a doctor has to go to a school for 1yr.?I also feel as if suboxone is a great drug, HOWEVER This drug is so strong (must be the narcan)Ever since I have been on this drug I have been high for this whole year, not just high but wasted..Worse than my 10-30mg.oxy habbit, at least in a few hours I would come down and be sober, NOT w/ this suboxone the high lasted all day and nite so I would call my doc. and he said this would go away,so after 2months of24mgs.I said no more, I weaned myself down to 16mgs.still it was too strong.Finally a year later after living highthis whole time I finally cutdown to 2mg.and I still am going through w/drawls and my doc.gets mad at me because he is so into this suboxone and no matter what I try and say about my concerns he even gets so mad and swears at me and will fight till the death over this dangerous orange pill.Like I said its agood drug for its use however I feel for long term use ,its no different than the drug I was addicted to before,only thing is suboxone is 10x's worse because insteadofit only takeing days to get off the oxys now its weeks I have to go through w/drawls.So reallywhy are we even put on these even more dangerous drugs that are even more addictive? Please can someone explain the logic behind this? Makes no sense unless the doctors are getting a big raise in money to give out these drugs?Why give your patient something worse for you? My doctor is going to cflip out when I tell him I am only takeing 2mg.?And even at the low mg. dose it still seems a bit strong I still geta buzz. Any one else get really high all day from this stuff? t 224mg.I was hallusinateing all the time, could not drive slept all day,did not even know my name.And yet this doctor insists I stay on this stuff all because I am what an addict? I am worse of an addict now than when I was did the oxys.So how does this help the addict Whos already is addicted? So yes suboxone I believe has its place,and can be useful I believe w/a goal and a time frame.My doctor never discussed any of the above he just prescribed me subs at large strength w/ no future goals or plans.From being on such large doeses for a long time I now am loseing my bottom teeth,can't yet drive,loss in sexual function,I feel wasted all the time to where even my eyes are half shut,energy level is gone,thinking ability is all foggy,sedation to the point of falling asleep at a drop of a hat w/lit cigarettes burning many things,fell down a flight of stairs 2x's,no abition to even do things that were once important to me all my life I have no longer any interest,mood changes just to name the negotives of long term use.The posotive effects have been things such as my migraine headaches have disappeared, back pain better,no craveings,been clean from day one of first dose and no substance abuse w/any medications.But, I feel the time is right to get off of this stuff and tried again on regular opiates at a low dose.I would like to hear your imputs on why doctors feel the need to use this drug and what makes this any different as far as addiction to any other opiates?


Phil abc 6 years ago

michelle: I don't know why doctors think this is such a wonder drug for 'everyone'. It was bad news for me. I don't know whether I was high or not but I was very sedated and definitely out of it. My behaviour was pretty awful. I had no sex drive, no emotions, all the usual opiate dependent crap.

I think I never got high because my physical dependence meant I didn't get high on any other opiate either but we're all different. And, when I say I didn't get high, I mean like the rushing high of my early opiate misuse days. I certainly did get a buzz from it but I just wouldn't describe it as 'high'.

I felt so emotionally numb on it. This made it intolerable to stay on. I was so depressed about it. My doctor was hopeless and refused to acknowledge what I said. I quit the doctor, first making sure I had enough to do some sort of taper.

Withdrawals were hell, as to be expected. No easier than any other opiate, just different. Six months later I'm still experiencing mental withdrawal symptoms albeit extremely mild (in comparison). They've almost completely gone, just not quite. It takes so long for the mind to find it's balance again post buprenorphine.

People post that they feel their old selves again on subs. It's a sad illusion I'm afraid. I've completely changed since coming off subs. I really am becoming my old self again and it is absolutely NOTHING like what I was on bupe.

Damn doctors touting this as a miracle drug. It's just an opiate. A long acting and very strong opiate.

I recommend people use this drug for nothing other than a quick 7 day or two week opiate withdrawal plan. I've heard this actually does work very well for some people.

Is it better to be on subs than mainlining heroin? Well, I wouldn't personally know, but in those circumstances I guess the obvious answer is yes because of all the extra related risks.

But, unless you really have no alternative, I would stay away from long term sub maintenance. Think real hard about it. The withdrawals have been absolute, unmitigated hell, for me. And that over a very very long time period of six months.

However, I certainly DO NOT judge anyone for being on this stuff to escape their previous addictions. Why would I? Afterall, I decided myself to go on the sub maintenance.

There is no new wonder drug for opiate dependency. There is just another alternative to methadone that the law is allowing to be prescribed to addicts.

Oh boy, I so wish that I'd just quit when I did a rapid detox taper using dihydrocodeine. I didn't even lose any sleep over that. Maybe any opiate used in a controlled taper detox over a short period would work just as well as bupe. Maybe everything positive written about bupe is just complete bollox and due to the fact that the pharmaceutical companies are hardly going to develop a new drug and then advertise it as "a completely pointless and shit drug, no better than any other pharmaceutical opiate, for the treatment of opiate addiction".

The only benefit to subs that I can see is that it is legal and pure. The same could be said for any opiate that is prescribed.

There's this fascist idea that addicts must not be prescribed their DOC, or something too similar, in maintenance. Well, subs soon become the DOC because of the limited legal alternatives.

I know I'm thinking outside the box here, and deliberately so. I'm just trying to be thought provoking. I'm definitely not saying I am right. These are just my opinions as they stand now from my experience with various opiates including the maintenance ones like methadone and bupe.

But, if an oxy addict was made to attend a clinic daily to get their sustained release 24hr oxy pill, wouldn't they receive the same benefit as if they had been prescribed methadone? Not only that but wouldn't the SLOW taper and eventual jump be less hideous than the protracted methadone and bupe one? Bear in mind I'm talking about a slow taper NOT a sudden withdrawal from oxy or whatever other opiate you might put in it's place. I only used oxy as an example.

Just a thought for the day...

God bless,

Phil.


Markmt88 6 years ago

check this site out awesome info about suboxone. www.suboxforum.com. A doctor started and runs the site.

P.S- If on methadone and are thinking about taking suboxone, Think twice. Make sure you are in the worst of withdrawal as you can tolerate before taking or else it will make you dope sick as hell and will take a good amount of time before it will start working. Other then that suboxone all the way. I was on methadone for two years. That it was a miracle for me until switched to suboxone. Didn't want to give it a try for years but finally did and what a good decision that was. The transition is a little rough but well worth it.


Phil abc 6 years ago

suboxone doctors make me laugh, especially the one on youtube who tells about his own opiate addiction and now is a suboxone prescriber. He was disbarred as an anaethetist following his opiate addiction. Well, fair enough, I ain't judging him, why would I? Afterall, I'm a fellow ex-dope fiend. But, what makes me laugh is that he touts subutex as a miracle wonderful thing despite the fact he never had to go down that route himself.

He talks of staying on suboxone as long as you need, long term maintenance. Meanwhile, he has no idea himself of what this is like. Of course, he had cash and paid for months and months of private rehab. Why didn't he just choose suboxone if it is so wonderful?

Yeh mate, like to see what you think after being on subs for a while. You wouldn't even be able to function as a doctor. You'd be wasted. You have absolutely no idea what it is you are signing your patients up for other than knowing that they can't afford prolonged private rehab. Well, you got to keep your money coming in haven't you? After all, you've been struck off from doing anything else...


DW 6 years ago

Cold turkey is the only way. I tried for years and could not quit. The only way to find relief is to face the hell that you have created and pray. after 3 or 4 weeks it starts to get a little better. With addiction to heroin there is absolutely no easy way out. Good luck and god bless.


LB 6 years ago

Kendall,

Wow I thought I was insane!! I get withdrawals 5-6 hrs after taking my subs too. I also get that chronic pain your talking about (like fibromyalgia). When I first started the subs at 24mgs I was still so sick from withdrawals. My Doc said that I was crazy and subs should work for everyone. Keeping in mind that I used 40 mgs methadone and 20 bags of heroin per day. Got off meth for a week and waited 48 hrs since last dose of heroin before starting 1st suboxone dose. It took away about 50% of withdrawals. My doc said my pain was from depression but I knew he was wrong. It took me about 3 months of a steady dose of 24mgs to feel human again. However, I still get bad leg and back pains. I also get very jittery from the subs. I started splitting my dose 16 mgs morning and 8 at night. This helps keep withdrawals at bay. I am sorry you experience this but I'm so glad you posted it cause I thought I was alone in this rare suboxone reaction. Good luck to you


daniel 6 years ago

you gus are crazy!! suboxene didi shit for me, i am on 130mg methadone a day by y own increase choice and it does help, yes i need my dose but i also quit snorting and banging heroin and oxyconton and have done really good with that since i started my treatmemt in june08. i didi try the sub at first 8mg pills and they just didi nothing4me in any manner,those it helps im glad gfor you but i never heard of falling out etc on sub until this board.and yes i would rathe be dependant on my methadone dose than my reckless opiate street addiction i had doing any opiates i cpuld chasing the nod and never getting enough


Missy 6 years ago

I've been on 40 mg of Methadone a day for pain for 6 years due to fibromyalgia.My doctor is about to switch me over to Suboxone. Has anyone had any experience using Sub for pain? Does it work? How long does it take to get over the withdrawal from Sub?

Thanks for any help on this one.


Jennifer 6 years ago

I was using 40mg of Methadone and eating Lortabs like candy every day for 3-4 years for chronic pain. I was headed down a very dangerous road and I was scared of what the drugs were doing to me. I was always nodding off, some times driving down the road I would snap awake and scare the heck out of myself. It is only by God's grace that I did not kill someone or myself. My job was suffering as I was not "with it" and would fall asleep in front of the computer. My kids and husband were worried about me and they feared that I may over dose or just not wake up. On my 37th birthday I made a promise to myself to get off of the drugs and I have not touched Methadone or Lortab since May 26 2009!!! I went through three days of withdrawl which was very scary not to mention painful and then I started Suboxone. I know that Suboxone saved my life. I understand that it is not for everyone and it doesn't work for every person as well as it worked for me but I must say that if I could advice another person on drug treatment I would say, try Suboxone. It is worth every penny and the effort. I used Suboxone as a tool not as a fix. I used the Suboxone for 6 months and slowly tappered off of it over 4 weeks and today I am proud to say that I am 100% drug free and I love my life! I have pain, I have learned to manage the pain with other methods but not with drugs.

I am feeling so much better without the drugs clouding my head and the effects that the drugs had on my body. There has been days when I have caught myself thinking "hey I need to take something" and I remind myself that I just need to take a look at my life without drugs!!! Suboxone is a tool not a fix.


daniel 6 years ago

addicts are not weak they are probally to smart and to strong for there own good but weak we are not.secound suboxone is a good drug to help detox.if you decide to maintainace then thats a choice you make and you will have withdrawls later on.Ive done it all and this addiction is a monster,and ive learned that we have to fight everyday every secound,and if you lose battles remember they are just that battles,but its war and if you stay alive then your winning the war.Keep your heads up keep fighting all of you Jesus bless take care


Casey 6 years ago

Suboxone seems to be a drug that curbs the opiate addiction for my boyfriend, but he freaks out if he is out. This drug is very expensive too.I am prescribed all opiates including oxycontin and methedone. I refuse to be addicted. This is my WILL. I know that some are born to addictive personalities and I am fortunate that I am not one. Reality sometimes sucks but it is much better than sleeping or living in a world that you cannot conquer. With all drug addictions, you must have a plan and wean off them. Not stay on them for years...........Do physical activity, pray and call a sponsor for help. Coffee is a great out too.


Ken 6 years ago

After reading several posts, I just wanted to give my story. I was on methadone for over 6 years. My pain Dr. originally prescribed it. It QUICKLY became my best friend. I started abusing it almost immediately. I was called in for a pill count and was 'kicked out'. I have taken as much as 400 mgs at one time om many occasions. (I own my own real estate business and the only drugs I have taken before are weed and exctacy.) The methadone clinic I have been going to for 4 yrs had me on 90 mgs daily. (of course I would buy extra when possible) On Monday, 12/14/09 I took my last dose of methadone. Tuesday was fine. Wednesday morning the withdrawals started and got worse by the hour. I went through hell until Friday morning (12/18/09). I went to the clinic and got my 1st dose of suboxone, 16 mgs. In an hour or so, I was feeling much better. It took 4 or 5 days on Sub to feel good, but it got better each day. No matter what anyone says, it was well worth 2-3 days of pain. I now see a dr. once a month. I am so thankful to finally be free of that dam clinic! Switching to Suboxone truly is the best thing I have ever done. I wouldn't take another methadone for $10,000! (unless I get cancer and have to). The best advive I can give anyone is to STAY AWAY FROM THAT DEVIL METHADONE!


katie 6 years ago

subs are amazing. end of story


Kyle D. 6 years ago

Reading all these posts of other people's battle with opiate addiction has givin me hope. I'll try to keep this short. I'm a 29 year old male. 3 years ago i didn't even know what opiates were. It started with a shoulder injury. My doc perscried me vicoden. I took them as perscribed for the first month, then a friend i worked with, turned me on to how to abuse them... Long story short, it started with vicoden, then to percs, and finally to oxys. This past year i've been doing 1-3 oxys at a time and using suboxone in between to keep from having withdrawals, when i didn't have enough money or just couldn't find any. (I'm getting the sub from a buddy that gets them prescribed) Who of which was a heavy oxy/dope user and has used Sub to stay clean for the past 3 years. Anyway, its time for me to grow up. I owe it to my loving girlfriend, which i have hid my addiction from. Today is Jan 27, i've taken Feb 1st to the 9th off from work. I have half of an 8mg sub left. Im gonna use it to taper off till this Sat, then its cold turkey. I plan to post with daily updates for the first week or so on my progress and experiences with withdrawl symptons. I know the first week will be hell, this isn't the first time ive tried to get clean. I want to marry my girlfreind, and i won't, if i can't. She doesn't deserve a junkie for a husband, and i love her too much to do that to her. I'm looking forward to being clean, having a clear mind, body and soul. I know everybody is different and what works for one person may not work for another. I just hope someone might find this helpful and maybe even find hope in what i'm attempting to do. Feel free to email me with questions or anything else you may have to say. kyled008@gmail.com Wish me luck

-Kyle D.


joe m 6 years ago

i have been using methodone for a couple years now daily 10to 15 mg a day.it gives me motavation you work and keep me in a wonderful mood while doing it i can work up to 80 hrs weekly 40 of them hrs being overtime.so i make real god money and to be honest can use everybit of it.(that being my main reason for being on it)i know FOR SURE THAT THERE IS NO WAY I COULD POSSIBLY WORK THAT MUSH NOT TAKEN ANY.my question is,is what im doing 10/15mg as bad as say 50-150mg of a dose.also my wife is watching more and more intervention shows and will eventually find out that the nodding and twitching that i do is caused by methodone insteed of me being overwhelmingly tired from working so many hrs so i do need to quit.what would be my best way for me to get of of them(in a way where i wont raise eyebrows and get caught being in withdrawals.i need to still be atleast able to work and get bye withdrawals with out it being to noticable what would be the best way?


dylan 6 years ago

sub clinics are more strict on their rules ive done both sub n meth clinics yur going to feel pain no matter wut im now twenty been usein since 15 till this day my fav drug is still methadoan shit fucks yu up for real sub clinics dont have the counseling that meth clinic has point is yu gotta want it basically get away from everthing for a while ive yet to ever have a job or a steady straight relationship i still feel fukd up today im going bak to the meth clinic i feel the w/drawals are the same for both


Kevin 6 years ago

ummm.. that's why they make subutex, it is a full agonist. der.


Randomtownhero 6 years ago

ok i gotta clear some things up for you opiate noobs out there, i know this information from 10+years of addiction. methadone is not strong at all, people who take large ammounts of opiates will get a tolerance to their initial dose within days. Suboxone and subutex are the same god damn thing. the naloxone in suboxone is a joke since the buperenorphine has a higher binding affinity than any opiate prescribed. about.5mg of buprenorphine is the analgesic/euphoric cap. yes you can take other opiates to relieve pain while on suboxone. Since suboxone is a PARTIAL AGONIST. i have taken opanna and oxycodone and "felt" them 12 hours after last suboxone dose. tho they were not nearly as strong as waiting a full 96 hours. Mixing opanna with any other drug is extremely dangerous, ive seen too many friends drop on the floor in full blown seizurs from mixing opanna. Methadone has a blockade effect that is particularly strong on users with a high tolerance. since it floods your receptors the drug it takes more of anything else to get high. for instance you take your dose(100mg for me) then take another opiate, you wont feel the other opiate. so you take more until the other opiate finally kicks but you most likely be pretty close to death when that happens. all of this from experience.


Amy 6 years ago

Hey,

First of all, I am a little confused my one of the first comments I read. It said something to the effect that Methadone has no blocking effects. I believe the article said the same. Hm. Perhaps things work differently where ever you guys are, but here in PA, the Methadone is certainly a blocker. I can not get high on this unless I far surpassed anything reasonable. I would have to die to do so, since I am on 150 milligrams. And it really hurts that there are so many people so gung ho over Suboxone and talking crap about Methadone. It is simply different per person. I personally think Methadone saved my life. It is NOT LEGAL HEROIN. That is crazy. I don't recall ever shooting Methadone into my vein..nor did I ever need to steal for it. It has a few disadvantages such as constipation or weight gain for some (though my boyfriend has lost weight). But it's a wonderful invention and I am blessed to have a chance to get it. I have tried Suboxone and I was not incredibly impressed, and this was before ever getting on Methadone. The article was so right, it is as if it is not enough. I remember hearing a doctor in rehab say that Suboxone is wonderful for people who use pills like Vicodin, Percocet, or perhaps even Oxycontin to some extent. But for Heroin users, a lot of us need more. I sure did. And I finally got a chance to go back to school. My self respect went up 10000 times, and I am closer to God and enjoy the little things more than I ever had.


JD 6 years ago

Hello All...I have been using about 200mgs of OxyContin a day for 3 years now. I went to the suboxone doc and was prescibed 12mg a day. However, the physical withdrawls are pretty much gone, but the mental part of it is still there. I was thinking about switching to methadone. Is that a bad idea? Or should I stick with the suboxone?


mikeyok 6 years ago

Hey, about a seven year user/abuser of prescribed pain meds. I am a pharmacist and work in research for major pharm co. Aside from the unfathomable unethical behavior of the pharmaceutical/pharmacist world and quite a few of you sneaky little opiate dealin' doc.s., Opiates themselves are disgusting disasters by them selves. And Suboxone has bailed me out of the repulsive addiction all by itself. SAVED MY LIFE! I was pumping pharma. grade codeine/morphine and all of the goodies somebody could ask for. I've been on suboxone for 2+ years and I still am able to work with and around all of the analgesics- no problem. Lucky huh?


SHARKY619 profile image

SHARKY619 6 years ago from MOUNTAINS OF NORTH CAROLINA...

MIKE...Way more than lucky..the strength you find within yourself, the self control is an addiction in & of itself!! keep focusing on the positive & positive things will keep happening in your life.I admire your willpower...


rachelinwv 6 years ago

hi everyone, I have been on suboxone for the last 2 and half years, my life has totally changed and for the better, I started taking 24mg a day and my doctor wants me to go down to two a day which would be 16 mg, well I told him that I have been a heavey drug user since I was 11 years old and Im not ready to go down that far, I told him this and he was ok with it. I know about the ceiling effect and that if you take more your not going to get a greater effect, but when I dont take my 3 a day I start all over with those withdraw symptoms and I got on the suboxone so i didnt have to feel that everyday of my life.. Thank goodness I have a very understanding doctor. I do have a question, I hear that women who are pregnant take subutex which is suboxone without Nalatrexone, and if I understand this correctly that is the narcotic in suboxone right, well I was wondering if I should ask my doctor if I could take the subutex and see how that works for me. If anyone out there has taken both suboxone and subutex can u please tell me the difference. But for anyone out there suffering with drug addiction, suboxone has saved my life, I feel like I felt when I was a kid before I had ever taken drugs.. Its a great feeling to not wake up each day and wonder where am I going to find my next fix, how am I going to pay for it. NO MORE HUSTLING AND I LOVE IT, NO MORE WITHDRAW EVERY OTHER DAY CAUSE I CANT FIND ANY PILLS. I am so thankful for this and I thank GOD everyday for giving me the opportunity to get on the program.. thanks everyone and good luck to those in recovering and to the struggling addict.


Kimmy 6 years ago

i am trying to get off of morphine and have an appointment for the clinic but its a few weeks away and i cant afford to keep buying pills till then so i was going to take suboxone until i got there but i am wondering how many days i should put in between so it doesn't send me into severe withdrawals any opinion on this matter would be greatly appreciated


eric 6 years ago

kimmy- you only have to wait 12 hours after your last morphine dose to take the suboxone. I was a heavy oxycontin and opana user (two 80's in a line, 60mg lines of opana) and i used to switch back in forth between the goodies and suboxone when funds were low. I am now on suboxone via prescription, and can tell you that its a life saver.

I am a 22 year old college kid who never took a drug in high school. Once i hit college and got free i got worse and worse into opiates every year until this year (senior year). The first opiate i ever took were vicodins for my wisdom teeth in my freshmen year and right away i knew i had found a new love. Over the next two years i was able to use freely and seemingly never get addicted, i even remember bragging bout not being able to get addicted. Then all of a sudden i had 24/7 access to oxys and opanas this year and its been downhill since the first day i got back to school after summer. My addiction had finally caught up with me so i decided i wanted to use suboxone the rite way.

Im not gunna lie, ive used twice in the last two weeks since i started the sub, but everyday gets easier. Its so nice not to crave that next line or worry bout having pills so i can study and go to class. In my two weeks on sub i have accomplished more then i did the last 4 months combined.

I had absolutely ZERO withdrawals when i switched onto suboxone. I blew 15mg of opana the morning i woke up before my first suboxone appointment and still didn't go into withdrawals at all.

I finally have my life back and i love it. i know the sub is physically addicting just like the oxys but to be honest, i could care less. The way my life has changed so fast and positive could not have happened without the sub. I plan on only being on it for 3-5 months since i feel that is enough time to break the habit of the druggy lifestyle and be back on track.

all in all, i would recommend Suboxone to anyone who has a prescription pill problem but cannot seem to kick it. Sure it may not cure me, but it is definatly a step in the rite direction!!


Jenn 6 years ago

I would never even try sub,when I was frist on methadone at 80 mg my doctor forgot about it and gave me nubain, I thought I was gonna F&&&&ng die, I was in withdrawl within15 minutes,I was in the pharmacy jumping around like a lunatic waiting for some percocet and valium. I would just like to tell people you can get off of methadone do it slowly, and if you have to do it and they refuse sign it AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE, BUT AS YOU GO DOWN JUST REMEMBER THAT IF YOU STOP YOU CAN'T SIGN AGAINST MEDICAL AGAIN OR THEY CAN TAKE YOU OFF COMPLETELY ( AT LEAST IN ct) I have been on Methadone for almost 8 years my highest was 130mg, it took me a year to go to 5 mg, but the clinic would not finish detoxing me cause I got pregant, my doctor told me to wait 3 months and walk off, but I couldn't do it I was 2 scared, after I had my son I ended upo with a c section and a car wreck I went back to 95 of methadone, now I am down to 50 mgs. yOU NEED TO FIGHT IT IF YOU WANT OFF OF THE SHIT AND i DON'T THINK SWITCHING IS REALLY AN ANSWER, i MEAN IF YOUR'E CLEAN YOU SHOULD ONLY BE VISITNG YOUR CLINIC ONCE A WEEK OR TWICE A MONTH-RIGHT? People need to do things to pick up their own endorphins, EXERCISE, do stuff that makes you happy and laugh. Don't sit on the couch and don't speak with people who still use, don't even associate with them unless you want to use still, and if you do accept this, and either get a dman support system or use until you hit bottom. I personally switched clinics cause I was doing 2 years clean, 6months getting high, 1 year clean 3 months getting high, now i have a clinic wre I have a decent counselor and some damn good groups of people who are clean. I know that some people need to be on it forever, and that is alright, no one has a right to say what works for someone else, but if you want it just go slow, hell, just go down 5 mg a month, even if you are ona 100 MG that's only 20 months- better than just going cold turkey and going back to using, take your time but don't let the damn clinic not let you go down if you are ready, assert your rights as a client. It's your medical treatment, I hope evryone the best :}


Nic 6 years ago

I been on opiates for 3 years. After 2 years of heavy opiate use (any, and every opiate) I started going to the methadone clinic. I went everyday for 8 months and took 125 mgs a day. My husband took me out complaining that it was too expensive. (the way I looked at it... It was cheaper than buying sh*t off of the street) But n e wayz, After leaving the clinic I felt awful! I withdrawled for A WHOLE MONTH!! And I'm not talking regular "oh I feel like f+ck•ng shit" withdrawls, these were soooooo INTENSE and they literally lasted a month like that and would have lasted longer but I couldn't handle it n e longer and so I went into a detox/ rehab for 7 days. When I got out I got on Suboxone, I am prescribed 3 8mg pills a day. I am not feeling 100% still and I been on it for a month and a half. I have tried taking more and I've tried taking less. When I tried taking less I felt more severe withdrawls and when I took more I was getting really bad headaches. I don't think suboxone will ever give me complete relief from my withdrawls, but it's better than ever having to go through methadone withdrawls!!!!!!!


Getintothelight 6 years ago

I just came out of a methadone clinic in Mass. I was in their for 3 years. The good was it got rid of the chaos. The bad is their no different then street dealers. They can mess with your life something fierce. One example they'll tell you Monday you have to meet with a councelor on Wednesday and if you have to work or already scheduled something TOUGH. They'll take away take homes etc etc. It's truly liquid hand cuffs. However it's better then chasing. I'm now 45 and I did it all. Methadone put on extra 70 lbs. I also have high blood pressure maybe diabetis and a slew of other issues. Bottom line is we've all been in a living hell so for me it's time to let God in. Save you life start tomorrow


Tomas 6 years ago

no kendall your mistaken subutex with not the same as suboxone .... subutex has no blocker in it you can abuse it just like methadone and you can also snort and shoot it if wanted, but its better for pregnat femals so thats why its usally prescribed to them. I get very sick from suboxone but when i siwtched to subutex i was fine becuase of the weird nelexon something in it makes me sick


tomas 6 years ago

Ive been takening suboxone for 4 years now on and off maybe its not doing the trick since i need two or more a day ... should i try switching to methadone i dont have my license and the furthest cliniqe is 2 hours away so that out of the question if i have to go there every day? Or could i get a script of it? please help and let me know ..... what about useing subutex again since it has no ceiling effect? use like 24 mgs a day of subutex ?


jay 6 years ago

ITS WEIRD, I THINK EVERYONES DIFFERENT....IVE BEEN ON SUBOX AND HAVE RELAPSED 2 TIMES IN 8 MONTHS...AND I ALWAYS HEAR THAT U HAVE TO BE IN BIG TIME WITHDRAWL TO GET ON SUBOX OR UR IN BIG TROUBLE...IVE WENT ON BIG TIME BINGES FOR A MONTH OR SO, THEN TAKE MY LAST OPIATES SUN NIGHT...WAKE UP MON AND TAKEHALF A SUBOX AND IM FINE..EVENTUALLY MY LUCK WILL RUN OUT IM SURE, AND I DONT RECOMMEND ANYONE TO DO WHAT IVE DONE....BUT MAYBE ITS A SCARE TACTIC IN MY OPINION


Marge 6 years ago

I have been on methadone for 22 years My doc said he wanted me to try soboxone I was sick for the hole month I tryed to tell him that it did not work for me and that I was reataning water my face was blotted up and I was SICK he said was not going to perscrib methadone that I would have to fined an outher doc Now I do not know what too do? Marge


Ani 6 years ago

I'm very surprised that after 22 yrs on methadone you doctor would give you such an ultimatum. WAs your methadone dose decreased down to 30mg before he switched you over? That's the magic number when they tell you it's alright to switch to suboxone, however, seeing as you've been on the methadone for so many years I would think that you would have to be weaned down much more slowly and further than 30mg's because that stuff has fully infested every part of your body much more than it would for someone who was only on it for a few years. It is possible that you are allergic to Suboxone and maybe Subutex (no naltrexone) would be a better choice for you, at least for a while. There are many more doctors around these days who are licensed to prescribe both you just have to look them up in your area. If worse comes to worse you could always visit a pain clinic and see if they would cooperate with you and your situation. If you have a medical background that contains any painful injuries you would qualify for pain clinic treatment. BTW, suboxone is not a pain killer, doesn't work as one, and hasn't been approved as one in the USA. I was on methadone for a year and it was the worst withdrawals I ever went through, and they didnt' even start until 10 days after I stopped the methadone. I imagine that after 22 yrs you would need some sort of special treatment. I switched to Subutex and then Suboxone (32mg/day)and I chose long term maintenance because it has allowed me the time to get therapy and learn about my lack of coping skills and how to improve them. My next goal is to get off of the Suboxone, but I am extremely grateful for it. Check out the resources in your area and if you do decide to try Subutex make sure you don't take any for at least ten days before your appt. or they won't start you on it. They want to test your urine and find opiates, but NO SUBOXONE OR SUBUTEX in your system. I wish you lots of luck, and there's always other methadone clinics out there if you must find another one, even better if you can find a private doctor. Take care and I hope things get better for you. ANI


Marge 6 years ago

Tank you for responding to me. I was on a methadone clinc for 18 years. then a had a bad fall at work, this DR (a workers comp ) said I should stay onit for me pain so I left the clinc You know a lot of pepole try to do both, But I did not want to do that that would be to tempting to a buse it,And I am not the same as I was when I started,at the clinc I was detoxting at time I had my fall, That is how I go down to30 This DR sad he wanted me to try souoxone becouse he could call it in, he look at me like I was crazy when I said I might have allagect to it, and said I was the only one he gave methadone to and he did not want to do this any moore, I never abused it,I do not know what to do now wensday is my last dose I am hpoing my lawer can talk with him, he is the one who got me the Dr for the workers comp thank you foe your consern Marge


Cam 6 years ago

I have been on suboxone for a while, almost a year, just wondering what the dose is that other people take. I was a heavy opiate user for about 6 years and I am currently taking 16mg a day. I still feel like crap all the time. Not sure if I need a higher dose? I see an associate of my doctor, who doesnt seem to know very much about this medication and he refuses to change my dose. Should I find another doctor and start over with the suboxone? Can you do that? I read in an earlier post that in some states the limit is 2 8mg a day, does anyone know if there is a limit in texas? Thank you


methadeath 6 years ago

i just want to comment on methadone...i was on it for 4 years, it is a horrible, toxic, creepy drug that will take over your body and mind. the doctor at the clinic i was at was a sniveling mousy little man who tried to get you to up your dose and stay on it as long as possible. it is blasphemous that they refuse to lower your dose (which would happen all of the time. they wouldn't even try to hide the fact that they just wanted you dependent forever -- it's truly all about the $$$.) i finally had enough and at at 15 mgs, i just stopped going and dosing a week ago.

my plan is to switch to suboxone to detox but i am waiting 3 WEEKS before i take one because i know the methadone permeates every little part of your body, and takes that long to fully come out of your system. i am using for the time being just to get through, and i am getting full on hardcore withdrawals every 3-6 hours (that is when i take something, then i am okay for a few hours and ~BAM!~ withdrawals again.) and i was on a relatively low dose of 15 mgs for MONTHS. before that, i had gotten down to 4 mgs....my highest dose was 90 mgs years ago. i had to fight tooth and nail to get my doctor to lower me...it is truly sick the way they try to trap you. besides the fact that they treat you like a subhuman.

i just want to warn those who do not know....no matter what ANYONE says, methadone is PURE EVIL and NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to free yourself from....i don't even know if i will make it. i have to warn you, please do anything except resorting to using methadone. DON"T BELIEVE THE LIES THE DOCTORS AND CLINICS WILL TELL YOU. the people on here who say it works for them just haven't fully realized what they have gotten themselves into. STAY AWAY, you don't need it, there is another way.

have yet to really try suboxone, i just want to be opiate free but once you start with opiates, you are really in for the long haul. methadone has made it a completely different animal too. it made me a shell of my former self, i have no motivation and i feel like i am in a fog ALL OF THE TIME. it is not enjoyable AT ALL. i just want to be myself again, before the methadone ever came into my life. the longer i was on it, the more i felt this SLUDGE in my brain. F**K you methadone. i can barely even see the person i used to be before this horrible, evil, sneaky drug. i just hope coming off of it will make me feel better....i really hate it.


jpwriter profile image

jpwriter 6 years ago

@methadeath - Good luck man, be strong. Suboxone is such a better choice than Methadone. If you wait long enough or taper then you can jump over to Suboxone. If you're doing it at a treatment place or detox then sometimes they can push your dose of Sub if the methadone isn't out enough. All of us had to wait to switch, no matter the drug.

Suboxone is meant to normalize the brain chemicals.

Good write up. I somewhat disagree that some people will need Methadone, at least for the reason you stated. Part of the difficulty w/Methadone is that it stays in your body so long, a huge half life.

For those who illegally took Suboxone/Subutex and found yourselves high, well duh. :) It is meant as a treatment option for opiate addicts, not something to play around with. It's very strong because it has to stick in the brain cells and block other drugs.


Stefan 6 years ago

I think suboxone does weird shit to your body. I got all the way down to 2mg and still couldn't get off, so I switched to poppy pods to try to get off and taper down on the pods since I couldn't go any lower on the sub and it took about 3-4 weeks to start feeling normal after starting the pods. Regular opiates won't work for about 3 weeks after you stop taking the suboxone. It stays in your body forever!


Stefan 6 years ago

1 other thing. When I was on suboxone it seemed that some days it would work perfectly fine and other days not at all. I think suboxone is better than methadone, but not by much. They need to make a .5mg pill so it is easier to get off cuz 2 mg is still really stong and hard to get off, but obviously they want you to be on it forever too cuz that means $$$ for them! It is also a pretty expensive drug for 30 2mg pills about $100.


Da REF 5 years ago

Replying to:

K 20 months ago

My son took something that looks like saboxone, but he was nodding and very hostile in the morning....any ideas on what that might be?

I have an idea that it might have been: Oxymorphone

www.drugs.com/mtm/oxymorphone

Hope this helps...


landofcleve 5 years ago

I've been on suboxone, now subutex for three years now. I'm mostly ok with it except for the cost. The only thing I really can't figure out is if the pain I have in my body when I wake up in the morning is from the drug or something else like my bed or arthritis. I've never heard of any side effects like that from this drug.

I'm in the mid thirties and don't think I should have as much pain as I do at my age. I saw my doc today and he told me the DEA said that the doctors could only prescribe two tabs a day maximum! I don't know if that is true or not, but what scared me was the possibility of subutex becoming a clinic-like drug just like methadone. That is if they can't cut down on the street sale of the drug. He said they did a blind test and found that no one could tell the difference between taking two tabs or three and a half in a day. Not sure if its true or not, maybe he is just telling me that to cut me down on my dose? Which is fine with me, I would love to not have to take this and save myself time and money every month.


Red87 5 years ago

IV heroin user, 23 years-male, steady 1-1.5 gram a day habbit(great dope). I am planning to detox , have some clonodine and benzos. I am planning on cold turkey, I have used suboxone before with a positive outcome, however do not want to be on a long term sub plan, for fear of having to go back to jail or prison and then having to suffer weeks of dt's instead of only several days.


Red87 5 years ago

My question is; can I use the sub's for only a few days to help ease the heroin wdraw or will tht simply postpone the h detox?


jb11891 5 years ago

Red in my experience yes you can use suboxone for a few days to help with wd's. I have done this in treatment before but I think the key is a low dose.


lilgirllost 5 years ago

SUBUTEX is different from SUBOXONE. Yes, they are both buprenorphine but SUBOXONE has the naltrexone in it and SUBUTEX does not. Therefore SUBUTEX is plain straight up opiate only. There is no naltrexone in it at all. SUBOXONE does have naltrexone in it. Because the nalatrexone prevents OD and will put you into immediate w/drawals if you try to shoot it up, it doesn't have as strict prescribing guidelines as SUBUTEX does. This may have something to do with why the doc who is giving SUBUTEX instead of SUBOXONE is not wanting to give out too high of a dose and in a large quantatity.

@selfdestruction who posted over 2 yrs ago, she doesn't know what she is talking about! There is absolutely a ceiling effect w/suboxone and to get technical, methadone IS NOT an OPIATE. Opiates are derivitives of POPPY PLANTS and contain OPIUM, all ingredients in methadone are made in a lab, this is why they call it a sythetic opiate. It has no real opium in it. That is why when they do a drug screen to test for methadone, it doesn't show up as an opiate. You have to do a test that will specifically test for methadone.

It gets me when ppl who support suboxone bad mouth methadone and say methadone is trading one addiction for another. What do you think suboxone is?

Recoveringaddict is RIGHT ON with this article, and I suggest selfdestruction do a little ACTUAL research on addiction and methadone treatment rather than just spout off biased opinions.

People on suboxone or methadone treatment are not trading one addiction for another. There is a big difference in being addicted to a substance and being DEPENDENT on a substance. ORT (opiate replacement therapy) pts who are legitimately interested in recovery are DEPENDENT on the meds, they are no longer running around acting like an addict, lying, stealing, cheating or whatall to get their drugs.

No different than the TYPE 2 diabedic who ends up w/diabetes because they can't control their eating habits and/or weight. They depend on that medication to keep their blood sugar under control just like a recovering addict depends on these meds to control their addiction.

Look at antidepressants and depression. For so long ppl treated them horribly and looked down their noses at them. They thought they were "just being dramatic" or that they could just snap out of it or think themselves happy OR Lord forbid that they were just doing it for attention! If someone admitted to being on antidepressants then OMG they were REALLY screwed up. Now we know how wrong that thinking is! It's an actual chemical imbalance in the brain and antidepressants help control the symptoms of depression. Now we actually applaud those who are brave enough to recognize they have a problem and go get treated for depression! Opiate addiction works the same way. It is a proven medical fact that opiate abuses causes chemical changes in the brain.

With depression or Type 2 diabetes you have a situation where some pts can change things without medication, they go to therapy or change eating habit and lose some weight and the body (or the brain) has time to heal and they are fine with no medication.

Some pts may need medication along with the other measures to treat their condition. They may only needs to medication for a bit and then eventually they can get off the meds and not have any more issues.

Some pts, their body chemistry or brain chemistry has been damaged way to badly and it will never heal no matter how much time they spend on meds or how drastically they change things. They will be on medication for the rest of their lives.

Opiate addiction works the same way! Some can go to therapy alone and it works fine for them, some need medicinal help as well and after a time, will no longer need the meds, but there are some that will require meds for the rest of their lives.

Can ORT meds be abused? YES! BOTH SUBOXONE AND METHADONE CAN AND ARE ABUSED! But just like anything else out there, if you do some actual research and or have REAL, ACTUAL experience with opiate addiction, you will find that the majority of ppl DO want to quit and will work the programs legit. So stop lumping everyone into the negative category and get your head out of the dark and LEARN what opiate addiction really is and the effects it has on the brain and how ORT therapy is a wonderful tool for those who have tried traditional treatment in the past and have failed. It would be GREAT if everyone could go to traditional treatment, need no meds and then be well and have no more problems again. But that is NOT reality.

The reality is that there are ppl out there who are going to need more than just congnitive behavioral therapy for opiate addiction.

If they can't get well after traditional treatment and it means ORT or staying and living as an addict, I am sorry but to me it is obvious which is the lesser of the two evils in this situation.


Ashley 5 years ago

I know I'm probably weird, but I have been a heavy heroin user on and off (mostly on) for a few years now and my latest relapse was about 9 months long. I've taken suboxone and the first time it was like a miracle but after that it was like I was letting candy dissolve under my tongue it was totally pointless and I felt like complete sh*t. Now I have contacted my local methadone clinic but here they make you pay for the whole month up front and I just quit my job so its not an option. I just took my first dose of methadone that I actually bought from my dope dealer (she told me yesterday after knowing me for years that she sells methadone, great, thanks for telling me when I tried to stop so many times before) and I took 20 mg and feel like I did before I ever used. Is this actually possible? I do between 2 and 4 grams a day straight from the border uncut. And I feel fine from 20 mg of methadone? Do you think I just haven't gotten all the way sick yet? Or does it actually work that well?

Thank you and god bless.


Spica 5 years ago

Very informative! Great hub!

You can also visit http://suboxonewithdrawal.com for further details on suboxone withdrawal. Thanks!


el 5 years ago

I have been on suboxone for over 5 years now and have no intention of coming off of it anytime soon. I remember the hell I went through being a poly substance abuser and I would not trade a minute of that time using for any of my time on subz. It gave me my life back and now I live a healthy lifestyle filled with love, family and steady employment that I enjoy. I have been able to go back to school and am now working on my masters degree in Psych. I highly recommend suboxone over methadone. I did the methadone maintenance program for years, on and off, and I was usually higher on Methadone than I was using street drugs.The fact that there was no ceiling effect meant that I always stayed altered and under the influence. I agree with several others when they said if you are not ready to live a sober lifestyle then suboxone may not be for you. Although, when I first got on it I didn't know I was ready either. I liked the buzz it gave me for the first couple of days but then it wore off, but as it did I got clearer and my emotions came back. I was able to slowly see light at the end of the tunnel and I found hope again. I was able to feel joy, love and compassion and looking at all those things I was hiding from with the drugs wasn't as hard they once seemed.I will say it again, for an addict like myself, which was labeled constitutionally incapable and one of those less fortunate souls who would never find sobriety, I have a wonderful fulfilling life today because I made the choice to get on suboxone instead of going back to methadone.

Namaste~


bspiker 5 years ago

This is to M the nurse well the one who calls herself a nurse who commented above, how much suboxone one needs in order to be comfortable does not depend on their commitment as you stated above, that was the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. I have been on suboxone for 3 years and take 4 a day and that is because I was coming off 200mg of methadone a day not because of my commitment so you may wanna crack back open those school books cause u are very uneducated!


reefpass profile image

reefpass 5 years ago from Boston

I have been prescribed Suboxone on and off over the past 3 years. There seems to be a lot of confusion in the comments I have read regarding Suboxone, proper dose, potency compared to Methadone, etc..

People taking 12, 16, 24mg. of Suboxone a day are feeling shitty because that dose is extremely high. Anything over 4mg. of Suboxone daily is overkill resulting in negative effects. With Suboxone less is more. I hope this explains all this better:

Buperenorphine metabolizes into norbuperenorphine, which itself acts as a full agonist on your ?-opioid, ?-opioid, and nociceptin receptors. Taking large doses of buperenorphine(12-24mg) causes the blockade effect, blocking norbuperenorphine from having much of an effect,buprenorphine in a high dose will act more like an antagonist and will cause uncomfortable akathisia and withdrawal-like symptoms.

There is also a correlation between this and buprenorphine's dose/effects curve. The effects increase rapidly over the initial low dose range(0.5-2mg), and then will begin to flatten past that. This means that beyond a certain point, you can take a significantly higher dose of buprenorphine, and you will only get slightly better effects, if at all.

10-12.5mg Methadone is = to

0.5-1mg Buperenorphine(Suboxone)


2theselfrighteous 5 years ago

Tired of the Whining 19 months ago

you know what gets me, is how every single addict taking Sub says 'it gave me my life back'. REALLY? Trading one drug for another is taking control of your life? NOTHING can GIVE you your life back,,you have to WANT IT then FIGHT for it. but, most addicts are weak and cant deal with real life,,,thats why they are addicts. Suboxne wont make the reason you became an addict go away,,,all it does is make the pain stop. Pain, I might add, was brought on by getting high. No sympathy here. Lifes rough, wear a helmet.

DEAR HELMET HEAD:

First of all, why are you browsing a page for people who need or use suboxone anyway? To feel good about yourself for NOT being or NEEDING this type of medicine?

Quite Frankly, your response was so ignorant that you may as well have gone to a diabetic forum and blasted each of THEM for taking insulin rather than eating right. YOU should be embarrassed at your ignorance and need to insult and attack people who are suffering. ( BTW, nicely done behind a computer screen) KARRRRRRRRMA, baby.


dennis rodgers 5 years ago

hey everyone my name is dennis and id figure id put my two cents in. ive been on suboxone for about months now. i started on 24 MG a day, and now 8 months, later, im still on 20 a day. i dont mind, its working awesomely, but the truth is i only take 12 mg per day all along. sometimes ill take more if ifeel i need it, but i dunno this whole naloxone thing i think is bullshit. ive shot subs and snorted them, and got high, but this was mefore i started maintenace, when i used subs recreationally back during my heavy drug usage. obviously now during my treatment i haven't abused them. but my point being the naloxone is BS. ive done heavy research, done suboxone every way possible and never withdrawaled from it, except not taking it for a few days. i asked my doctor to switch me to subutex to save 315 bucks a month, cuz i pay out of pocket now for the films. 70 per month, its rediculous spending. but he said no, tried to explain to me but i know everything he said to me was bullshit. buprenorphine in itself prevents other opiates from working with it, so the naloxone IMO is bullshit. why he wouldn't switch me is beyond me, ive never pissed dirty or anything. if anyone has any insight plz hit me up drodg87@gmail.com thanks :) im trying to figure out why i cant switch, but with what i know now i dont see the reasoning


wondering 5 years ago

Hi all

I was wondering, if I take Methadone to help stop taking opiates(percocets); am I still high?

I am trying to decide between Methadone and Suboxone.

thanks


Jeffrey 5 years ago

Do some research on Ibogaine. If you can afford it , it might be a better way to go even though you may have to go to Mexico or something.


shep 5 years ago

Please give me an answer.Ive been on pain meds for years.oc, methadone and ive been taking suboxone for 2 yers.1 a day 1/4 at a time.i dont know if this has anything to do with it but i had a stroke 7 mts ago.but the lkast couple months ive had to have my doctor increase to 2 a day.i feel ok but i feel withdraw feel most of the time.1 suboxone work great for 2 yrs.taking a 1/4 would always work but not now.why the big increase and barly or most time not work.my doctor is a quack told him i was losing eyesight then had stroke 2 weeks later,he just blew it off.please i dont know what's going on and it seems worse each day.i dont want to keep increseing my suboxone


shawn 5 years ago

if you guys are going to put information on this page make sure its rite the Neloxone in suboxone doesent make u sick or go into withdrawls, its the buprenorphine the only thing neloxone does is prevent u from shooting it, then it will make u will get sick ive been on subs for 5 years n 3 of them where on subutex and if i shot a bag of dope n took a subutex i would still get really sick and theres no neloxone in that. the other thing is whe withdrawls from subs last a really long time i was on 24mg a day and got put in jail for 2 months and for a good 40 days i felt like crap. if u can make it without it, try, i hate it now the first year or 2 i loved it, but after a few years i cant stand it i wanna get off it so bad but i dont wanna feel like shit for 2 months


shawn 5 years ago

if you guys are going to put information on this page make sure its rite the Neloxone in suboxone doesent make u sick or go into withdrawls, its the buprenorphine the only thing neloxone does is prevent u from shooting it, then it will make u will get sick ive been on subs for 5 years n 3 of them where on subutex and if i shot a bag of dope n took a subutex i would still get really sick and theres no neloxone in that. the other thing is whe withdrawls from subs last a really long time i was on 24mg a day and got put in jail for 2 months and for a good 40 days i felt like crap. if u can make it without it, try, i hate it now the first year or 2 i loved it, but after a few years i cant stand it i wanna get off it so bad but i dont wanna feel like shit for 2 months


katie 5 years ago

Shawn- You don't know what your talking about. The naltrexone is an opiate ANTAGONSIT. That is what they use in hospitals to bring people out of OD's because it negates the opiates and WILL MAKE YOU SICK. The Buprenorphine is the a partial opiate receptor. That is what makes you not sick. The little bit of naltrexone is what makes you not able to get high if you do opiates on top of the suboxone since its blocks and negates opiates. Learn your information if you're going to write that on a board. Bottom line- everyone's body is different and needs a different amount of suboxone to feel good. Chemical reactions are all different. One person may need 2mg's a day, the other person may need 20mgs a day. Despite how much you do a day, it depends on the chemical reactions in your brain that decides how much you need. But if you are trying- DON'T GIVE UP. Keep going- it's hard, I've been trying for 10 years. But never give up, we ALL deserve a better life.

Katie


corey 5 years ago

Katie, you are wrong. the nalaxone in suboxone is completely inactive. the bubrenorphine has a higher afinity for the recepters, and it always wins. the bupe is what causes precip withdrawl not naloxone. thats why subutex will make you just as sickas suboxone if you take it too early. this is why you can shoot up suboxone with no negative effects. the naloxone is useless. thats why it dont work if someone is oding on bupe. you need to do your research before you go shooting off useless information. thanks for wasting my time.


Corey 5 years ago

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?

A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all inten


swair_737800 5 years ago

I just wanted to set the record straight. My imaginary friend has been through this. Severely burned about 8 years ago, then eventually wound up on methadone, 100mg per day for over three years. Went into treatment, telling them that 'he' was only at 40mg because they would not take anyone above that level. On the second day, they gave subutex, which does not contain naloxone. This was way too early and within 15 minutes, terrible withdrawals set in, death would have been preferable. this went on with eceptional intensity for about a week. I say this because someone earlier said that it was the naloxone that causes precipated withdrawals and that's incorrect. It is the Buprenorphine that causes this because it throws the methadone off the receptors and is replaced by a much weaker agonist or opiate which only effects the mu opioid receptors but does so at such a rate that it works through the keyhole even when the keyhole is full. This is why you can easily switch from suboxone to methadone, but not vice versa. Its somewhat complicated. Almost always in a hospital setting one is given Subutex, which does not contain naloxone, once discharged, you get Suboxone because Subutex has the potential of being abused IV. That is the role of the naloxone, to prevent IV use. It has nothing to do with the ceiling effect unless you take 16mg, then you are getting a substantial dose of naloxone. The ceiling effect is much lower, but they want you at a higher dose so you will reach that and get less of a traditional opiate effect. Also, if you have to come off of it, like for surgery, you will see that its not the reduction from say, 16 to 8, to 4, 2, its that last 1mg that gets you. Going from 1mg to 0 is like jumping off of a cliff. You must go to 1/2, 1/4,1/8, 1/10, 1/16th. This is because Sub is given at such high doses. For example, if one were in the hospital, they may give you a Bupe. injection (i mean for non addicts) in micrograms, yes, micrograms. This stuff has been around for almost 30 years (Buprenex inj.) they just recently discovered the beneficial attributes as an alternative to Methadone So, you see how high of a dose even 2mg is. And when you're coming off you will notice that you feel the effects of less more than you would at higher doses. Going into the hospital after a severe complete fracture of the elbow, one had to be off for a week, but wound up being 5 days. Was given percocet 10, four times per day and still went through w/d. Then after 10 days, back on Sub and it felt as euphoric as anything, this is because the percocet was not penetrating that wall. I do believe that Sub is a miracle drug for those who are truly motivated to stay clean, it also has the unintended, yet beneficial effect of making some not crave alcohol. It is such a superior alternative to methadone, but there are too many people who just want to be on methadone or divert it so it probably won't ever be stopped. I believe the only way to get off methadone in a non-barbaric fashion, and this is a theory, but here goes. One should go into treatment and be given large doses of short acting narcotics, such as dilaudid, then slowly be tapered off of that because the period of withdrawal is much shorter, but the medical community does not agree with that notion. Just my two cents.


nate 5 years ago

Subs work great for me. I was using about two grams a day of BTH via IV for 3 years. I still can't sleep at all and it doesn't really take away my bone pain in my legs but all in all it helps me out a lot.


Megs17 5 years ago

I, like a lot of people here, was an opiate user for a few years. After the death of my 2 1/2 year old son, I didn't know any other way to cope than not to cope at all and get high. I went from using just a few pills here and there to doing literally a brick almost every day. When I first went for Suboxone treatment the Dr. obviously had no idea what he was doing and put me up to 5 1/2 8mg suboxone a day. I eventually got down to 4 1/2 and decided that I needed to find myself another doctor. I am now seeing a great doc that genuinely cares. I was on 8mg Suboxone 4x day, so 32mg daily. I was having a lot of problems with sleep and also just feeling jittery. I also was still having leg cramps the entire time. My doc said that perhaps it was a side effect from the nalaxone and switched me to Subutex. Let me tell you, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! I feel a million times better, sleep well, and just feel normal now. I've tried lowering my dose a few times and who knows, maybe it's in my head, but I don't feel right if I take less. My doc never really pressured me into lowering. He would tell me just to try, even if I literally scraped a sliver off. Now, all the sudden Medicaid isn't covering the meds and the HMO I have is. The HMO is now denying the prescription stating the FDA says there is no effect on taking any amount greater than 24mgs a day (3 a day). My doc is appealing the decision. In the meantime I've been paying cash for the remainder until I see what happens. My question is...I've searched up and down the internet to see where it says the FDA says 24mgs a day is the maximum dose. Everywhere I can find information about the max dose or the "ceiling effect" it says 32mg a day. Does anyone know anything about this??? I can't even find anything on the FDA's website. The way I feel is if it's working well for me, it should be my choice on how much and how often I decrease my dose, not the insurance company's decision. Since I've been on Suboxone/Subutex it has allowed me to be a mother and a wife again. Just annoys me an insurance company thinks they know what's best for me over a doc who has been treating me for quite some time now. Anyone know anything about this new FDA thing saying 24mg is the maximum???? Thanks for any help here guys.


Suboxone Milwaukee 5 years ago

Hello,

I know this hub is a bit old, and I really didn't want to type a lot before bed, but I think this warrants a comment. I have been on Suboxone for a couple years, I wish I wasn't but I am. I recently had a relapse and started doing heroin, so I haven't taken any suboxone for a few weeks. My girlfriend is also addicted to heroin. I have tried to get my girlfriend to get on Suboxone but she was very firm that the 24 hour wait time to jump over was not sufficient. I don't want to make this a huge post, so I will sum this part up with - I sat with her for almost 72 hours from her last dose of Heroin to her first dose of 4mg of suboxone and within 15 minutes she was in full blown precipitated withdrawls, quite possibly the scariest thing I have ever seen. If you don't know what precipitated withdrawls are, you cannot begin to compare them with normal withdrawls, not even close. The reason I am telling you this is because she went to see my sub doctor, he is a well known sub doctor. He gave the same instructions that all other docs give. Wait until you are in withdrawls and then take the suboxone. We have been through this three times now and 72 hours later, she still goes into PWs. The doctors dont believe it, they are convinced she isnt being honest about her last dose etc, but I have witnessed this with my own eyes twice now. Ive sat with her for days in our apartment while she suffered from heroin withdrawl, waiting for the right time to take the first sub dose and each time its the same. This caused me to hit the web and do as much research as possible about suboxone and this '24 hour' wait time. I have not been able to get a straight answer from anyone, doctors or mere mortals, about whether or not there is a heroin dose that is so high that Suboxone will not work. The web is filled with so much garbage, but your page might be the most rational and clear representation of facts I have found, and thats saying a lot. I am a search engine marketer so I know how to find things online and now at 2 am, after basically giving up, I type in Suboxone to heroin back to Suboxone into Google and I find this page, and it makes perfect sense.

I think your statement about 40 mg of methadone is a great scientific way to know if suboxone is going to work. It makes perfect sense. When you are ready to come off Heroin, wait until you are in withdrawls and take 30 mg of methadone, if that doesn't make you feel better, suboxone isnt going to work (simplified but it makes the most sense of anything ive tried yet).

What people dont quite grasp is once you have suboxone in your system, you better cross your fingers, because if its not going to work you are in big trouble. Its not actually true, you can break through suboxone with large doses of opiates, I know this because I had to do it, but it took a lot (1 gram of powerful heroin to break through 8 mg of suboxone enough to stop the projectile vomiting).

so , thanks for this page. You have given me some hope about how to deal with this.

What I need to know now is if someone is doing heroin, then they switch to methadone for one day, it works, do they have to wait 72 hours or can they take suboxone a bit eariler. What people also dont know is that the switch from methadone to suboxone is one of the toughest out there.

OK.. time for bed.. thanks for this page.


Suboxone Milwaukee 5 years ago

I just read through a bunch of the readers comments, some are a couple years old - WOW..I feel so bad for many of these people, and I wonder how things turned out for them. The amount of mis-information out there is just amazing.

People don't understand suboxone, anti vs agon, nalaxone, methadone.. The average joe advice is bad but understandable, but all this crap from licensed MD's telling people to wait for withdrawls then take 1-5 pills is freaking criminal.

Here's the facts for anyone looking for the most common answers to suboxone questions.

1. it is not the nalaxone in suboxone that causes withdrawls, its the bupenorphine (suboxone) iself. Thats a fact.

2. There isnt a set time limit to wait for various opiates to be out of your system before taking suboxone. listen to your body and GO AS LONG AS YOU CAN, please repeat that GO AS LONG AS YOU CAN before you take the suboxone. Trust me. I have seen precip. withdrawls a couple times now and you do not want it.

3. DO NOT jump from higher than 30 mg of methadone to suboxone. I dont care what doctors or nurses tell you, DO NOT DO IT.. taper down. Its not a mental thing, or a personal thing, this applies to everyone.

4. You can still get high on opiates if you are taking small amounts of suboxone, but the difference between 2 mg and 4 mg is huge.

Suboxone is a major bitch to get off, my suboxone doctor just told me about some new info in the sub world about tapering off after long term use. People are seeing success by setting a date to stop, tapering down to a VERY small amount (.25 of a milligram) and on the last day, they take an 8 mg tab. Apparently this is doing something to help them ride out the withdrawls from the last crumbs of sub, and yes you will have withdrawls.

Also, it is VERY unlikely that you would ever need more than 8-12 mg. Dont think you are the biggest addict on earth and people just dont get how bad your habit is, there are plenty of people worse than you that have made it.


Mlu103169 5 years ago

Tired Of The Whining,

Don't ever feel sorry for me. I may be dependent on Morphine and have one hell of a time fighting with weekly withdrawals. But it sure beats the hell out of suffering daily from sometimes over 100 severe attack. I've suffered from Bilateral Trigeminal Neuralgia for 20 years. 50% of TN aka "The Suicide Disease" victims kill themselves within the first 3-5 years of diagnosis. I'm either really stupid or really brave to hold on this long...maybe a little of both. I toughed it out for 19 years with no meds other than a trip here and there to the ER over the years for a simple shot of Toradol in my butt. I'd say that's pretty damn good. I just went through a radiation brain surgery this last December. It had little effect. Morphine is pretty much my last resort. Again, after 20 years of suffering from a disease that is known as "the worst pain known to man"...I'd say I'm a mother ?!@$&%# trooper. Dependency/Addiction sucks...but so does laying in bed for days and begging your loved ones to kill you or to cut your face open with a knife. So PLEASE...don't feel sorry for me. You seem to think everyone who is an addict or dependent gets what they deserve...well maybe you can look down upon me and treat me like scum because I'm sick. If that makes you feel better...knock yourself out. But I assure you, if anyone has pity...it is me having pity for you. I am sorry you are so closed minded and ignorant. I pray to God you never find yourself or a loved one in my position. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. There are worse things than death. So next time you hop upon your high horse...make sure you strap yourself on real good. I'd hate to find out that horses name is KARMA and see you get bucked. Laying face down in a pile of horse $&!@ can't be a lot of fun. There's no cure for Trigeminal Neuralgia...but there's no cure for your self righteous ass monkey attitude either. I will pray for you. It appears you need them much more than I do. I may be sick, but I'm not a bitter fool.


dopesik:( 5 years ago

This page was extremely informative about when I should take subs. Unfortunately I wish I read this 12 hrs ago cause im on my fourth 8mg an still no relief. I was stupid for thinking that I could go from doing four or five grams a day to a couple of fn subs. I read a lot of the post( cause all I can do is lay in bed an sweat) an since im not in pw I guess ill be fine. I just can't understand why I continuously keep doin this to myself, and the sad thing is ill probably wake up an get high cause this is fn bullsht, rather die a junkie then feel an smell death for another night. Good luck to everyone who posted on this page. I use to swear by subs but I think my habit is way to big for them to handle. This page explained it perfectly an clearly as possible an I thank you for that.


Megs17 5 years ago

dopesik

I'm curious to know when you say "subs"...Do you mean suboxone or subutex? I had a pretty heavy habit myself after I got my settlement for my wrongful death lawsuit when my son died. I had basically as much heroin as I wanted for a while. Loads of money which in turn led to loads of drugs. Anyway the reason I ask is because I was put on Suboxone several times and it worked okay for me. As I stated in my previous post I just still didn't feel like I had the other times I had taken it. Something just wasn't right. I almost felt like maybe I'd built up too much of a tolerance for it or something. I was switched to Subutex. It's literally SOOOO MUCH BETTER!!! It's made me feel great. I'm on 4 a day right now still. My issue right now is the insurance company is giving me crap about paying for the 4 a day. They insist the FDA says there is no benefit for ANYONE beyond 3 a day. I even had someone from the insurance tell me 3 is all anyone's body will absorb and the rest you just pee out. I swear I've tried taking the 3 and I DO NOT feel the same. Anyway the reason I wanted to post was to let you know that if you're being prescribed Suboxone...it may be worth asking your doctor to let you try Subutex. I don't know what is in that naloxone stuff but it doesn't agree well with my body I guess. Since switching I've felt great and I've been able to lead a pretty normal life again. I know it's tough getting through that initial withdrawl...ESPECIALLY if you take it a little too soon. I've done that several times and the last time it was the worst I'd ever felt in my life. I've found the best way to get through them is to literally take smaller pieces a little at a time. Either a quarter or a half every hour or so until you start to feel some relief. Even then...you may not feel great but just keep taking it. Smaller doses little by little seemed to do the trick to bring me out of em. Hope you stick with it. I think at least giving the Subutex is worth a TRY for you. Good luck man. I keep an eye on this post often so I'm curious to see how things are going for you. Drop another post if u can. Again..Good luck!


dopesik 5 years ago

Yes I mean suboxone, im still staying strong an taking them an am feeling a lil better but still far from good. They don't even touch me, but a lot of the pains an aches are definitely no where as bad as they would be. I don't have a dr. Only because its easier to get them on the st. Phones gonna die ill finish up later


Megs17 5 years ago

Hey dopesik

So glad to hear you're feeling better than you were and that you decided to keep at it. I was wondering what state you're in? I know some Drs are cheaper but of course they are kind of far from me so I pay WAY TOO MUCH for my visits. I'm in NJ and it seems most docs here take advantage and overcharge but there are some compassionate ones out there. They are just hard to find. Listen if you need to talk leave me ur email. If there is anything I can do I'd be more than happy to help.


mandee 5 years ago

wow.

okay i get why ppl fell sorry when others tell you that their dope sik but commmon..

if your sik go to detox..theres about a billion in each state instead of buying subs on the street go to a MEDICAL facility , get the methadone and detox in a safe inviorment!...

detoxing at home is so flipping dangerous..plus you have a wayyyyy higher chance of relapseing

you guys shouldn't feel so bad for "dopesik"..you did this to yourself an if you want to get better you might as well do it the right way ...i may sound like a bitch but i used for 4 yrs an have been going to a methadone clinic for 2 , im on 37 mg( i started at 140) an when i got clean i didnt want ppl to feel bad for me , i did it to myself so why should ppl feeel sorry for me? if you truly want sobriety you need to do it the right way ..get some support systems and go to a program..you've been doing it "your" way for how long an it didnt work..why not try it a different way, you really have nothing to loose right?


Megs17 5 years ago

WOW IS RIGHT!

You want to know why people don't want to go to detox's?

I had MANY friends (and this goes for at least the state of NJ) who went to so called "detox". Their "detox" consisted of being put on a dose of methadone for 2-3 days and then sent home with no medication or they were given Suboxone then sent home with a day's worth of medication.

(detox (?di??t?ks)

— n

1. treatment designed to rid the body of poisonous substances, esp alcohol and drugs)

I am sure they were given follow up directions as to where to go next, but in the state of New Jersey it's REDICULOUS how hard they make it for anyone who is below the average income, esp if you want Suboxone and not Methadone. Now this debate could probably go on forever, but I wanted to throw in my measly 2 cents. As far as feeling bad for dopesik...I don't feel bad for him...I feel empathy for him. I've been there and I get it. I was one of those people who swore no matter what that I'd never EVER even try heroin. Then at the young age of 20 my 2 1/2 yr old son became ill over the weekend as kids often do and was misdiagnosed, developed meningitis from that, and died that Monday. My entire world crumbled. I decided it was time for a pity party. I had people in my life who basically enabled me in one way or another because of my situation. I'm not saying people should feel bad for me, or that I didn't become addicted to drugs all by myself, what I'm saying is it's easy to judge people when you haven't walked a day in their shoes. I agree that people should be safe, but some people are just trying their best with what they've got. It took me many failed attempts to get clean. I had to find my way, what was the right way for me. I'm still on Subutex and as I said in previous posts it's not something I'm exactly proud of or something I want to do forever, but right now it's allowed me to lead a "normal" life and be a good wife and mother again. The one thing I took out of my journey to getting sober was that it isn't easy and you really have to want it in order to get there. Just because I am in a good place now doesn't mean I will ever forget my journey and how hard for me it was to get to where I am now. So yes...I feel a great deal of empathy for anyone who is on their own personal journey and who am I to judge anyone on which path they take.

Good Luck dopesik...get well and stay strong man. You'll get there!


N/A 4 years ago

Do what you can to get off all the dope. Suboxone or not your brain does not start to heal itself until you are off of everything. Try working the 12 steps, get a sponsor, get involved in service work, Suboxone is a tool not a solution. STAY AWAY FROM METHADONE IT IS A TRAP.


Dave 4 years ago

I'm curious how many people plan to take Suboxone for the rest of their life? I've been taking it for about a year and have cut back from 16mg to 4mg a day. It saved my life. I don't know if I want to quit taking it altogether. There are reasons I started taking opiates in the first place that, even at 4 mg a day, the suboxone helps me deal with. Some are physical and some are mental/emotional. I also think that I am as close to fully functioning as I have ever been. I would like to hear other people's opinions about this.

Thanks - Dave.


Socalsubz 4 years ago

It sounds like you need to go to treatment, suboxone is not to be taken while in a state of mind with emotional problems, that is one of the first steps to abusing medication. Aka the "poor me's" you want to have an end date for getting off suboxone. My 2 cents


Kristin 4 years ago

I am a former opiate abuser. I have fibromyalgia and was prescribed vicodin for years, which i immediately became addicted to. I moved on to percocet then oxys. I have been on suboxone for almost 4 years now,prescribed 3 8mg a day. The first few days were a bit of a struggle (probably mostly mental because I just wanted to be high) but definetly helped with the withdrawal pains. I've gone threw withdrawals before without meds and the leg pain was excruciating, as well as the cold sweats,insomnia,etc. I decided to post a comment after reading many of your posts but strongly felt the need after reading a post from a nurse who kinda pissed me off claiming she felt that it is the addicts willingness to get off opiates & not so much the amount of mg one takes, nevermind the lack of empathy I felt she had to the individuals pain, saying if you were addicted to heroin then try suboxone but if it were pills you were taking, you should suffer out the days/weeks of withdrawal. I just want to say that EVERY INDIVIDUAL is different & whatever that person needs to do to live a life without abusing drugs is the RIGHT choice for them. Also, everyones body reacts differently to medications,so what works for one (suboxone or methadone), may or may not work for the next. Same goes for the amount of mg.

Personally, suboxone was a miracle drug for me. I live with pain everyday due to my fibromyalgia but feel that it would be a lot worse without suboxone.

Good luck to all and don't ever let someone make you feel bad for needing help getting off of any drug.

I believe we beat ourselves up enough after becoming sober just thinking back to when we weren't & how we hurt those who love us. There's no need to punish yourself for making the best decision, which is the hardest, to get help. That's what these medications are for, to help!!!


becauseilive profile image

becauseilive 4 years ago from N.J.

@ N/A -- Some people can't just "get off all the dope" as you suggested. The public detox/rehab system, at least here in the U.S., is incredibly flawed and has a very low success rate. NA is a great program that works for a lot of people, but it isn't for everybody. Many people simply cannot stabilize on their own free will, and will need Suboxone or methadone to help them along; there's no shame in that. I am a huge methadone advocate as I was on it for eight years before doing a slow, pain-free detox, and I doubt I would be where I am today without it.


Melinda 4 years ago

??? Where did my last comment go ???


peace2U 4 years ago

"obla,di,obla,da life goes on"(The Beatles).A very real feel and relavent to all of us. Life is precious,no matter how high or low you've pegged your stake. We are all loved by someone and we all make the world go round.


Hang in there ! 4 years ago

Just an .F.Y.I . not sure how it workes in all states, but it should not matter after I got sub from my doc. I called the mfg. of suboxone and I was able to get it for 2 yrs for free. Just thought I would put that out there. Nice to hear from people in the same situation. Good luck and god bless.


Hang in there ! 4 years ago

Just an .F.Y.I . not sure how it workes in all states, but it should not matter after I got sub from my doc. I called the mfg. of suboxone and I was able to get it for 2 yrs for free. Just thought I would put that out there. Nice to hear from people in the same situation. Good luck and god bless.


kmelodya 4 years ago

I am a 33 year old woman who was on Methadone at 130 mg. per day for over 4 years. In February, I started on Suboxone. I now take 8 mg, twice a day. I really like being on Suboxone rather than the Methadone. But, I'm having a BIG problem. In June, I tested positive for Methadone. The sample was retested at a lab and still came back positive. The doctor dismissed it. And now, in November, 2 weeks ago, I tested positive for Methadone again!! He is sending it out to be restested again. He only gave me a 2 week script instead of my 1 month script. So, I will be going back in a few days. I am worried that it will come back positive again. I don't know why this could be happening! I have not had any MD since February! And I never could if I even wanted to, it would make me deathly ill! Has anyone heard of this happening before? HELP!!!


Marty1211 4 years ago

I am have been on suboxone for 4 years, 1yr prescribed, i was also addicted to benzos (xanax and kpins), i would take 8mg of sub a day and somewhere near 5-10mg of benzos a day. Is that a dangerous mix? and i have been prescribed 2 8mg subs a day, if i were to take 4 8mg in one day would i get intoxicated?


Megs17 4 years ago

I know it's a little late responding, but I wanted to respond to Dave. As far as taking it for the rest of your life...

I have been on Suboxone (and now on Subutex) for several years now. I have gone down from 4 a day to now 3 a day.

I have heard some people say that it's meant as a detox drug and not for maintenance. I disagree. I'm not overly thrilled of the idea of taking something for the rest of my life, but I also don't see any rush to get off it. I feel it works well for maintenance and my doctor has told me the same thing. For some people it works great just to detox and some it doesn't. I personally feel that if it's working well for you, keeping you off illegal drugs, and letting you lead a "normal" life then what is the problem? It's let me get my life back and it keeps the cravings away. I've gone off subs and ended up back on the other crap or having a desire to want to use again. So for me, I'm okay with being on it long term. Maybe not the rest of my life...or it very well could be, but for right now I'm taking it one day at a time.

Also, we all start using and abusing drugs for some reason or another so I think counseling is also a great idea while you are on the medication. Getting to the root of why it is you used and learning better ways to cope with things def helps. I went to an intensive outpatient program which helped me tremendously and I am currently in the process of looking for a psychiatrist/psychologist or a counselor. I think overall it helps to talk to someone that will give you positive feedback, help set short term goals, and most importantly listen to you without judgement. (at least for me anyway)

Hope this helps!

If you want to talk further my email is megs17171@verizon.net - email me anytime


rich 4 years ago

i was takeing 150 ml of methadone daily and bitched to my doc that the daily cost was killing me 14 bucks a day. she perscribed 8/2 sub and told me wait 2 days and have one. mAKE SURE YOU WAIT Two DAYS . I didnt wait 48 hours and went into full withdrawal about 45 min after i took it. I am only warning people that a high methadone dose should be gradually dropped before taking subboxon to avoid the pain i wish on no man or woman. Best of luck to all who want to be clean.


Joe 4 years ago

Methadone is stored in fatty tissue and swaeting and catbolic effects on these fatty tissues will release methedone into the body that is why it is such a great drug for pain and opiate detox.. Im very surprised that your doctor does not realize that I find it very hard to believe that he has you coming in every 2 weeks. Unless he just wants to bill you or your insurance provider twice.!!! As far as other comments here The narcon in suboxone we all know if we research it is 2:4 if someone to O.D on Buprenorphine Narcon would not work they would have to go on something much stronger or be on a drip because after 2 hours they would just be back into over dose. Also mind you that doctors can write for up to 4 8mg's a day who ever told the one girl that doctors can not unless they were on methadone was misinformed doctor may not feel comfortable wrting such a high dose or mis educated believe it or not many doctors know less about this drug than we do. Rekitts pharma reps come in and tell them things that are just ridiculous if you know anything about pharmacology there trying to keep there patent now switching people to film to "prevent" drug divertion" funny suboxone actually has a 3% divertion rate compared to other controlled substance which are up in the 70-85% range. Yes buprnorphine is a cns depressant but some of us addicts have been on alot more heroin oxy mixing with xanax and alcohol for a very long time so taking a benzodiazapine and suboxone really is not going to kill us. Now being opiate naïve and benzo naïve and a doctor writing up 8mg of bup and 3 bars a day would most likely kill someone but our bodies have built up such a massive tolerance it would be ignorant to say that its dangerous. Ive been taking 16 mgs of suboxone now for a year with 4mg of xanax and am fine compared to my over 1gram a day habit I had before. when first starting out I was at 4 8mgs a day slowly lowered. i suggest any doctor scaring a person telling them things that do not make sense or make you worried or feel uncomfortable during this process to find a more understanding physician. that understands addiction more thoroughly!!!


i hate this27 4 years ago

i have been takeing 15-20 viks ang perks a day for years now and i have 3 girls i just want to get off the fu**ing drugs now befor i kill my self should i try subboxon or what


dave 4 years ago

re. i hate this27. Hold on champ. I've been doing up to 20percocets a day or 120mgs oxy., whatever I got my hands on and I've been going through this for 5years now. Dr.prescribed opiates for ostio-mialitis. Put it this way the opiates were better than the immediate option...and that was shooting myself because it hurt to breathe, I was in that much pain. But then after 5years enough is enough. I took a half tablet of suboxon at 10:00am this morning and don't even have the urge to down the percocets in my drawer. I'm kicking this shit for good. I've experienced the withdrawals before and I know what to expect...I can tell you this stuff is a miracle. Felt good all day with a minor hot flash but no loss of appetite and I know I'm going to sleeep tonight. Sleeplessness is the worst and this subox will ease you in the transition. Put your girls before your dopamine charge.


Ryan 4 years ago

Check out subsux.com You will find people there that are really educated and practical about its effects and the real truth behind it. Almost nobody functions properly on it after a number (3 or 4) years. It is an opiate and it eventually turns on you just like every other opiate. It is a great tool to get off dope. But maintenance is very misleading and misunderstood. Even by the doctors that prescibe it. Remember that the pharmaceutical business is a trillion dollar empire. Its there job to keep people on their payroll. I speak from experience because Ive been on it for over a year and its effects are weakening and it is turning ugly. I will once again have to make the leap of faith. I have created a decent network and healthy lifestyle during maintenance, and I am confident that this will help my journey. Good luck to all and remember...there is no easy fix in life. Anything worth anything in life takes hard work. Thanks


Ryan 4 years ago

Also...do some searches on suboxone and tooth decay. The professionals have not admitted to a direct correlation but its hard to argue. If you do research their are over 50 people who "claim" to have had perfect or great teeth and after a few years on subs they are now unmdergoing thousands of dollars of work on their chompers. Once again, not saying that you will have this experience. i am just hoping to shed some light on a very misunderstood practice.


d dog 4 years ago

Hello, I hate this 27...I started using all forms of oxycodone around 3 or so years ago. Kinda the classic case of one party weekend leading to another (and pretty soon you have a "guest" that will be harder to evict from your house than you ever would thing. I have extensive training in pharmacology and medicinal chemistry and know addiction from college, but book training pales in comparison to walking to path of addiction. I tried methadone, obtained through my traditional oxy supplier, and had very little success. Then I decided to give Suboxone a try. What I found with both methadone and Suboxone is the "medicine' was too close to form as my first choice, oxycodone. I gave kratam a chance, through a few different websites, with very little positive effect. I think the common theme with all of the above is it truly seems, for ME anyway, that a product that is separated from it's natural beginnings beared a rather chilling downside. Methadone actually was causing panic-related issues and therefore was abandoned. Suboxone, with repeated twice-daily doses, was giving me a very disturbing change in cardiac activity, with very, very slow, forceful heartbeats. These cardiac changes were most noticeable during the evening before sleep (or the attempt for sleep). My medicine of choice is poppy pods. This is such a break from the above situation; this is an all natural approach. Just look back at most serious drug related issues, and the general common thread is the active moeity has been isolated from its natural element. Once isolated, it is then manipulated to change a whole host of properties. I am now a believer in keeping plant one with its active ingredients. I fully believe this lowers the abuse potential greatly, and allows plants to once again act as medicines.

This is a little of my journey. The wonderful thing is there are sooo many of success with quite a few different approachs. Another wonderful thing going for you is you have probably the most powerful motivation; the companionship and love of your 3 daughters. Not to mention you have mostly supportive forums such as this. Before trying to quit though, my advice is to gain control of the things that you can control...and that is things like diet and exercise, plan some time where you are going to be able to go through a rough patch or 2...never, never try to detox on vacation or in an infamilar place...and investigate your medicinal options BEFORE you are in withdrawls...waiting for your sub appointment or pods to arrive is the worst of the worst. I hope I could help in some small way :)

D


Matt orian 4 years ago

I have been taking methadone for about a year, I really want to get off of it an am thinking of using suboxin to stop, the things I read about it though say if I have takin methadone the suboxin will not work, I have not takin methadone for 72 hours now an am going to take suboxin. Will it work????? Anyone........


david 4 years ago

Hello Matt...I believe the key for you is to wait as long as possible to start the Suboxone...Otherwise, the buprenorphine may partially antagonize the methadone, leading to an induced withdrawl state. Since methadone builds up in your body over time, wait until you are full blown withdrawl before taking any med such as Suboxone or Subutex


Matt orian 4 years ago

Ok thank you so much, I don't know how long I will be abl to hold out, I know the second day your still high on them, the therd day witch is now (72) hours, and the next few days are going to be very rufffffff, I will Waite it out as longs as I can, Im just sick of eating pain pills, 5 years ago I shattered my jaw and have been on all kinda different pain med. but the methadone are the worst to be without, I'm just sick of having to eat norcotic med to feel better, so I'm Gunna give suboxin a try an only take them for just a little bit. I thank you and all the people that put there story's and situations on this site, detoxing is physical and mental, for me it's a lot more mental an it makes me feel good reading some of the things you guys writte. So thank you all. Xsept the hatters! Hahahaha!


Matt orien 4 years ago

Well..... I started taking it, I took a whole one and don't have any "want" to take a hand full of pills, I don't feel 100% but deffenetly feel like I can get through the day, I knew I wouldt feel all the way better yet seein how I was downing any kind of pain pill about 100mg a day of whatever I could get. I have not eatin a pill for 4 days now an with the suboxin I don't feel like I want to, I was also wondering if there was anyone wanting to be kinda like a sponser to me I would really appreciate it I just need someone to talk to about it some times. Give me a call at 907-315-3830


Carrie 4 years ago

Hey matt, I wish u all the luck in the world. I know exactly what ur going through and would be more than happy to talk to u, if u want u can email me..... Carriec863@gmail.com I started out in pain management and have had ups and downs since, its a crazy unfair road that I know all too well


Megs17 4 years ago

Hey Matt

I'm not sure if you've read any past post of mine. Not sure if you would be interested in talking to me. I have been on Methadone (only for a short time) then suboxone and now have switched to Subutex. It's been a long road but I am still on it...still working at it...and feel the best i've ever felt in a long time. I am now leading a "normal" life if such a thing exists lol

Anyway...I'd be more than willing to talk to you at ANY time. Really. I know how hard it is esp if you don't have someone to not even so much talk to but someone to listen. I didn't want to just call u without speaking to you here 1st. Anyway...let me know if ur still wanting to talk.


rtaylor11214 4 years ago

Hopefully I'll b tracking progress here. Anyway, I'm 30, taken pills since 17. Been addicted 7 yrs, been between shooting and Methadone clinics for 4 years now. I was at like 60mg of methadone/daily while waiting to see a Suboxone Dr. I took 30mg Sunday morning, 7:30am cuz I knew I needed to be in slight withdrawals to start. I took 8mg Monday at 5 and the withdrawals I was already in got extremely worse. I know about the blocking effect, but I'd only taken 8mg and the withdrawal was insane, so I shot morphine at 8 for ANY relief, got some. Wore off, redosed at 11:30, feel ok right now. Anyway, 8 is a small freakin dose, is it possible 32 could help? If it doesn't and throws me into severe withdrawal I'll jus go to detox but I knew 8 wouldn't help, and it didn't. Do I have hope at 16,24,32mg? BTW, I thought .6mg bup=10 morphine? If so 8 should be similar to ~100mg morphine. What gives?

Hoping for help. Tired of the streets, tired of daily clinic rides. Tired of this disease crippling my life.


Megs17 4 years ago

rtaylor11214

Hello. I just wanted to let you know with my personal experience and trust me I've gone thru precipitated withdrawls MANY times! Well maybe not THAT many but a few times of that is enough for anyone. They are the worst god awful thing I've ever felt in my life. Anyway I'm sure you don't need to hear about that part. First I'd like to ask what dosage you are on? Like how many 8mg tablets a day?

What I found worked best for me was...

Say I took the 8mg and went into the withdrawls. I would then take 1/4 or even 1/8 of an 8mg tablet every 15-30 mins until it became more bearable. Then I took the same thing every hour or two til I was more comfortable. It does take some time but as the time goes and you take it little by little it won't last that long. The one good thing about them is that even tho they are worse...it basically rips everything you had in your body out quickly which is what makes them so bad but they don't last nearly as long as regular withdrawls. Those type of withdrawls are the absolute WORST of anything so just get through it and remember it so you don't ever end up back there. The subs really are soooo much better than being on methadone (at least in my opinion) I don't like the idea of having to go line up at the door to get a cup to be able to get thru the day anymore than I liked having to chase pills or dope around.

Don't get me wrong...to each his own...but I'd at least wait it out and give yourself a good decent amount of time and see how it goes.

As far as the 32mgs...I'm not sure what state you are in but there seems to be this new "rule" from I believe the DEA that anything beyond 24mg (3 pills) a day is the max and basically anything more does nothing. Not so sure I believe that because everyone is different and everyone's bodies react differently but my doc told me they are up his ass basically about getting everyone down to a max of 3 8mg a day.

I'm curious to ask too if your doc mentioned Subutex to you rather than suboxone just to start. I'm not a doctor but I've heard of them using Subutex to do the transition from methadone to suboxone. Might be worth asking your doctor. And also...don't be afraid to ask the doc if you aren't feeling great and see what they recommend. I mean you're paying them and he's prescribing your meds so he should have no problem answering your questions...esp if he is a good addiction doc and understands addiction.

Hope this helped. If you want to talk any further feel free to email me at megs17171@verizon.net or post back here (I follow the post and get emails whenever there is a new post) Take care and hang in there...you can do it!


rtaylor11214 4 years ago

Yes, if u read my post I took 8mg. He started me there and yeah, he started me with subutex. He had me take a quarter first and see how I felt, then take the rest. The quarter didn't bother me. I've done research and everywhere says bups ceiling is 32mgs is y I asked. DEA does what it wants tho. I'm in GA so, hopefully they allow 4/day. Anyway for the first week he gave me 1/day. That's a pretty low dose and if I could take withdrawals I would just quit. That's y I asked if 24mg, 32mg whichever, more than 8mg/daily would help me? Cuz I couldn't so much as sit in one spot my body was on fire, I took a nap and kicked the entire time it woke me up. Would a higher dose help?


rtaylor11214 4 years ago

Also if your doc said everyone's up his ass to get ppl down to 24mgs/daily that kinda proves ppl were on 32mgs.


SammySubs 4 years ago

So many people are receiving and giving wrong information on suboxone. To go from your Drug Of Choice (DOC) to a suboxone maintenance, you have to wait until you are in full blown withdrawal. After waiting as long as you can bare in the withdrawal take 4mg, and wait again. you should feel a little better. If it's unbareable take another 4mg, otherwise ride it out, and try to sleep till the next morning. (Your Dr. should have given you sleep medicine/benzos for the first few days). The next day, start out with 8mg when you wake up. If you still have cravings you take another 4mg. Wait a few hours, take another 4mg if you still have cravings., etc. You should not experience any cravings, at all, on suboxone.

Your doctor/psychiatrist should tell you all of this.


tammy 4 years ago

I stopped taking 20 mg of methadone that i took for around 4 months took perk 10s for two days and am on suboene now will the meethodone still show up in my urine


robertsjr 4 years ago

What ever you do do NOT take Suboxone while pregnant! We have a grandchild that was born with severe withdrawal issues as well as several other medical problems that our Physician said is directly related to taking Suboxone while being pregnant! Currently our grandchild is in the ICU unit of the hospital and has been there for 14 days!Don't take the chance, yes you may be able to have a healthy child on this drug but why take the chance? You can "SLOWLY WEEN" yourself from the drug once you find out you are pregnant without any harm to the fetus then go back on it after you give birth if you can't control your habit.

Don't chance it, we were told today that our grandchild will probably have a lifetime of medical issues if she pulls through...


Mcmeth 4 years ago

I disagree that suboxone won't work on heavy users. I was using 20 bags of heroin a day and sub completely stopped my cravings.

It also does have opiate effects,not euphoria but a nice glow. It makes you feel good.


lynn 4 years ago

I currently take 10 mg pill,methadone every day. I desperately want to stop . I tried you do this cold turkey on my own recently & failed on the 4th day everything so confusing as to suboxeon. I am in desperate need of freeing myself from this nightmare of two yrs now. while still keeping my mind Im getting more depressed every day. Struggling to get out of bed. I want me back, please help with as should I try to go on suboxeon or continue down this dark road that feels darker every day


Mike 4 years ago

I did 8mg of Suboxone, then 13 hours later, i did Heroin, the usual dose i get. and ive done this before, and after 13 hours i usually get high. But this time i felt a tingling and huge burning sensation travel through out my body (im guessing through my veins) i got really really scared, but after a few mintues it went away, anyone have any feedback as to what happened? did i almost OD? was it just the feeling of the suboxone blocking my receptors? what happened! lol


karim 4 years ago

how can i get Suboxone if any one need to help me call me at+00201001472119 or mikooo@hotmail.com

palzzz any one i need help


jo 4 years ago

Suboxone is awesome at first.. Then two years later you try quitting them... Then you realize suboxone sux bad! Withdraw on a hole new level. Everyday is worst then the last. I recommend skipping suboxone unless your dependance is life threatening. Cold turkey for OC's withdraw lasts a week to 10 days possibly less but suboxone withdraw is much longer! Save yourself time, trouble, and money. The withdraw is horrible.


MarkTrecovery 3 years ago

I am 41 days off of suboxone,the prior post "jo" has it absolutely right.It has been the most long withdrawn out opiate detox I have ever gone thru in my life.When I jumped off I was taking 2mg for three weeks prior to jumping off.I did not get sick until the 4th day and was in full blown"PAWS" post acute withdrawal symtoms for two weeks and did not feel ok until day 40,yesterday.The medical community and doctors have it all wrong about the detox from this horrible drug if you want to get off it,they don't know because they don't take it.Let me tell you all again.I am detoxed,im off the shit,I was the most hellish torture I have ever endured in my life,it takes 6 weeks,yes 6 weeks to completely detox off suboxone.I am coming to the end of my detox I took that shit for 3 years,yeah it was great the first year and then it sucked,mad heat rushes,no sex drive and after a year no energy.If you choose to go on suboxone do not stay on it for longer than 6 months or you will have to go thru what I went thru and I do not wish that apon anyone.You have to have a strong will and determination to get thru it and if you decide to get off clear your calendar for at least a month,at 30 days I still was not right,weakness,diarrea and very little sleep.I am writing this post to show people that you can get off suboxone,but have a good plan and stick to your guns.6 weeks is such a short time in our lives,but when you detox 6 weeks feels like 6 months,but it's so worth it.As the days go by now it's finally losing it's grip on me.Freedom from bondage from self. if anyone wants info how I did it you can call me.Mark T 617-828-2089 or email MarkTrecovery@aol.com.I do not say good luck to anyone there is no luck involved here,it's hard work and a sincere commitment to get off suboxone......


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J. Anderson 18 months ago

It's funny what people disagree with factual science. What are you living in exactly? LoL 'Sheeple'


EdenTheOne 8 months ago

Oy vay, where to start?? There is SO much bad information being passed off as fact by many of the replies here. So much in fact that I felt obligated to sign up just to attempt to rebalance the scales even a little bit if possible. To begin with buprenorphine is NOT a "...pretty great new drug..." It was originally created in in 1969 as an injectable analgesic. The first sublingual variation of the drug was created in 1982.Finally, it was first approved as a medication to assist with drug addiction in 2000 via the Drug Addiction Treatment Act of 2000. It began being prescribed as such in about 2002 by doctors who had attained waivers to do so by taking an 8 hour required course on the mmedication. Next...to say that"...withdrawal pains are largely avoided, and the eventual detox off of Suboxone is considered far less painful than for methadone..."this is just plain WRONG and is not supported by the tiniest fragment of factual data. In fact there are mountains that state the opposite. While buprenorphine has been shown to be an excellent medication to transfer off of opioids there is so much that we do not know about it's long term use. There is nothing naturally occurring that is a partial agonist. We do know that it is 25-40 times more potent than morphine and very difficult to titrate down to small enough amounts to properly taper off of. Lastly(I could go on but will spare you) The author wrote, "...If you had a heavy heroin habit and took some Suboxone – and still found that you were feeling withdrawal pains – taking more heroin at that point to chase those pains away would not work..." If anyone in their right mind did this they would suffer from immediate severe precipitated withdrawals that would likely land them in the ER! I don't mean to pick on the author. However, it is SO important that we not only get good information out there to the people who need it but we must also stop the spread of BAD information. Thank you for reading if you have gotten this far.


emjab 2 months ago

There is a good bit of misconception on "ceiling effect". What the ceiling effect means with regard to dependence/withdrawal is that after a certain dose (24mg strip/tab) there was no greater need for a higher dose NOT that some individuals use was so high that they actually needed more effect than the Bup could offer. I have had many patients on very high doses of opiates (160-200 mg of Methadone, 240-320 mg Oxycontin, $1000 Heroin daily) that have been on 16-24 mg Buprenorphine for years.

The reason for the 24mg dose limit is a study done by the developers of SUboxone, "in house", where they gave everyone 4 strips daily with varying amounts of Buprenorphine in each. They found that more than 24 mg was no more effective with regard to dependence. I cannot seem to get my hands on the complete study from the company to see in what percentage of patients this was true.100% rarely occurs in a study and I would be curious to know for how many patients was this true. Once again, this was for dependence only, the "ceiling effect" for respiratory depression and miosis is 16 mg and for pain most studies show there is no ceiling although one suggests there is one but it is much higher than 24mg.

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