A dialysis patient using recreational drugs while in prison, do you think a person like this should be kidney transplanted for a second time in thier life while still using drugs?
200 years ago... they used to ALWAYS BE Transplanted to Australia!
I know the man I am talking about, he is a nice man, he cannot stop using or selling drugs.
that's a load of crap. anyone can stop doing drugs and as for not being able to stop selling them, please tell me you're kidding. i say give him a choice, stop or die.
And now you are sending them back again! Just been a second case of someone released from a long prison sentence in Australia (for serious crimes), who are being deported back to the UK, despite the fact they haven't lived there for most of their lives.
The UK is the worst place for them - they'll get pampered by the nanny state, and more people will die at their hands...I think they should be thrown overboard into shark infested waters en route, accidentally of course
MP 50 . . .regardless of what a person has done wrong or the bad choices he or she has made, they are still a human being and, (I think), have a right to live the same as we do. Just my opinion.
I can't believe this, honestly Is this how people are treating other people by isolating a group of addicts as basically not worthy of having what everyone else right to medical attention? ????????????????????????????????????????????
As well as anyone, he has a right to life..
It seems there are many ways to abuse our bodies...who judges whom...truly a slippery slope, and it seems that so many are quick to judge the so called drug addict not knowing a thing about that person's life....
How about we all try to help each other, and stop with trying to judge one another, perhaps then we would have a much lesser need to try and find some sense of happiness or perhaps even less unhappiness through drugs or some other difficult choice...
I understand the argument against this, and similar situations. It may be frustrating to see a person do harm to themselves, but I still think that the decent human thing is to show compassion for them unconditionally. If one's frustrations are compounded by the fact that organs are not in great supply- one should consider volunteering to promote organ donation and stem cell research. Those efforts would not only affect one kidney- they could affect millions, immediately and for generations to come and extend far beyond kidneys.
I think you've misunderstood my response lol In short, yes. He is. He always is. To not care for him would be inhuman. And if or when he destroys this kidney- give him another. Human decency is unconditional. I have a friend in a similar situation. He's not in prison, but is a heavy drug user and is in need of a transplant. I think it's repulsive when people say he doesn't deserve the chance to live. Instead of putting poison into the world by being so judgmental, they could put that energy into making the world a better place with more organ donation and stem cell research.
Depends on who they are, what they are in prison for and a host of other factors.. if they are a kiddie rapist or similar I would say turn them into a donor!!
I totally understand your position, and I've wavered there in the past, but ultimately- is it up to you or I to judge them? How many people are in prison that are truly innocent? Humans are not perfect, certainly not those in the judicial system either. I think vengeance, as what you're saying would be, is a human reflex but we can rise above that and care for saint and sinner, friend and enemy, alike.
I am just asking the question, this particular drug addict is on his second kidney transplant!
Is it up to us to judge them? The obvious answer is "No", but then the question of is it up to us to pay for them comes next? Not just the cost of surgery, understand, but the cost of removing a kidney from the marketplace - a kidney that someone else needs very badly. The cost of "teaching" our society that it is not their job to take care of themselves - that someone else will cover and make good your repeated, stupid decisions. The cost of turning our society into a nanny state where no one has responsibility - just duty to cover any mistakes that everyone else makes.
As MP50 points out, society has no justification in giving a third kidney to someone that has intentionally destroyed the first two they had. Society not only has no justification for that, it has no right to do it. Not when transplant material is in such short supply and so many others have the same need without intentionally causing the problem in the first place.
You have exactly identified the problem with supplying another kidney- transplant material is in such short supply. Can we change THAT? Can we educate and empower more people to give their organs, and to be able to make that decision for loved ones quickly after they're lost? Can we encourage more support of stem cell research, and again education about what stem cell research truly is? If we deal with the fact that even people without these "sins" are dying every day because they couldn't get a transplant- which should be easily unacceptable to anyone- we can create a world where we can be compassionate to everyone equally and not be forced to judge them. Isn't that far greater than condemning one person to death for their struggle with the disease of addiction?
I honestly think that a real solution is being lost because of anger and vengeance. Yes, it is extremely upsetting to see that people have to be judged worthy or not because there aren't enough to go around. But let's look at an analogous set of circumstances... famine. In places where there isn't enough food to go around- is the solution to not feed those who their peers believe are undeserving? No. The solution is to get more food there and feed more people. The question of entitlement and judgment of worth is not our place at all. The solution should involve no account for these things.
I would have to disagree to some extent. We live in a world where kidneys are in short supply, and that will not change in the near future.
Yes, we need to work, and work hard, on getting more people to donate. But in the meantime we don't have enough and judgement is thus necessary. No one that has destroyed 2 kidneys through their life style needs take a third from someone that needs it.
It's easy to say we should never judge, just supply more of what people need, but when we can't accomplish that what then?
Both of these dialysis patients have been kidney transplanted two times in the last five years? They are both back at the same dialysis clinic as I am, back on dialysis and waiting for a third transplant, after screwing up the last two kidney transplants over a five year period! Falling back into their old ways of drugs and alcohol abuse. All of my monthly blood tests come back 100% OK? I don't drink or take drugs and I am fit?
I honestly don't begrudge them a kidney transplant, I have no idea when I will get a transplant? I have done everything the doctors have asked of me?
Perhaps you are forgetting the small detail of compatability?
You may be waiting for a rarer type of kidney, and his may be more common. If a kidney becomes available, then doctors use the criteria of who that kidney is the best match with, then when they have narrowed it down, who is the most deserving.
I'm sure they take everything into consideration - age, general health, general outlook etc.
It could well be this this was the only person in the country who that kidney matched, and it is then better to give it to him, than let it go to waste.
Kidneys have to be taken from a live donor and transplanted within a very narrow time-frame. They don't keep people (donors) artificially alive for long, and sometimes have to make a snap decision.
I hope your donor comes along soon. Well I do and I don't, if you know what I mean, someone has to die to let you live.
Then, I would have to say, you're using the classic excuse "I can't." Have we REALLY tried? I believe it is possible in our time.
Don't get me wrong... I know what you're saying, and I do live in reality LOL Until we make it happen, it will still be what it is. It is necessary for people to make decisions about these things and to judge people and essentially "play God." I support them for taking on such a heavy burden and I wouldn't question anything they do- they shouldn't have to do it to begin with and I'm sure they wish they didn't. That has to go on, and it has to continue going on, and there are a million things wrong with that. I'm just saying that instead of being upset about how wrong that is and trying to make that right- why not heal the bigger picture? Those things will be non-issues then. Particularly with stem cell research. It is possible to use your own cells to grow your own kidney. It just needs more research and testing... and money. But the words "stem cell research" are anti-buzzwords. They trigger a reflex fear and upset with people who don't understand that embryonic stem cells are a whole other branch of the science. And that research extends far beyond growing organs... a neuromuscular disorder runs in my family and we could be cured and our progeny could be treated early and never develop symptoms, if people would just learn about it and support it.
You understand. We live in the "now", not in the future where things may be different. As distasteful and anti-PC as it is, we must play God. And you're right - I wouldn't have that job for anything.
Yes - if we could ever quell the irrational fear of stem cell research it could do wondrous things. Perhaps one day...
On the point of should this man get a second kidney, I would have to say no.
Remember George Best? Great footballer, but a total alcoholic!
Didn't he get a second liver transplant after he drowned the first one in booze?
Those precious organs could have saved two other people, that might even still be alive today.
Glad it's not my call, al the same. Doctors have to be Gods these days to make those difficult decisions.
My father had a kidney transplant, so I know the qualifications for a recipient are very strict. Even a healthy, clean 70 year old does not qualify, even if a relative donates the organ.
It is a waste of valuable resources and services to give a kidney to someone who is ill or otherwise abusing their body. There is no moral statement with organ donation, simply that the limited resources are reserved for those whose medical chances of survival are highest. It's fair for everyone that way.
Perhaps if the addict is treated for their illness and shows several years of clean living, they can reapply. But it would hardly be right to give him/her a second organ while severely ill with addiction over a person who has a better chance of living.
At least we that are living in the richer nations are getting dialysis and the chance of a transplant.
This is happening, TODAY in Nicaragua.
http://politicoexpert.hubpages.com/hub/ … -Nicaragua
We have an african male here with us at the clinic, in his own country dialysis patients only get treated once a week. This person has a donor and the system won't allow the donor into the country to give own his son a kidney!
KimberlysLyrics, do you agree that two kidney transplants in 5 yrs is to many chances? should the system help this man with reabilitation therapy for his drug addiction? Before giving him a third kidney transplant?
for the drug addict my answer would be a clear no. but others will argue that they have every right to live etc etc... one solution (assuming insurance is taking care of the payments) is make them pay an extra percentage for the kidney if they abused the previous one. the more money they have to dish out of their own pockets the more it will hurt and the more motivation the person will have to quit their bad habits. something on those lines...
by MP504 years ago
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