Orange and Green on St. Patrick's Day - Folk Song, War and House of Orange

Belfast Botanical Gardens in Northern Ireland
Belfast Botanical Gardens in Northern Ireland | Source

Colors and Less Popular Traditions of St. Patrick's Day

Surprised by Color

Elementary school celebrations in my day encompassed the usual cliches: The pot of gold, the rainbow, the little green clad men, green grass, and shamrocks. We never received any of the real history or even the long lived mythology of St. Patrick's Day.

As my family never celebrated the holiday at home, I knew nothing about it other than the fairy tale portion until high school. Then I learned about the conflict and the colors.

The Irish Flag

Colors and meanings as we learned in school --

GREEN stands for 1) the Gaelic and 2) the Anglo-Norman peoples of Ireland.

ORANGE stands for Protestants of Ireland that were also supporters of William of Orange.

WHITE Stands for "union" and "truce." However, war waged in Ireland in the 20th century between the two factions, bloody and with many deaths. War lasted for 26 years, governments and religious denominations fighting among themselves until 1994. Before that, in the 1700 - 1800s, England and Ireland fought and Irish persons were hanged for wearing green.

Source

It is said that Green in the flag represents Irish Catholics and Orange represents Irish Protestants, while the White indicates their reconciliation.

Republic Of Ireland, Northern Ireland and England

Conflict visited all three of these nations, one against another for over 800 years.

The mid-19th century Potato Famines of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales are legendary, except few Americans know about only the first one.

The Irish potato crop was not good those years, but English officials sold was was good overseas. The story was repeated in the other two countries as well. England and Ireland were not the best of friends. Neither were Scotland and Ireland. Today, some of both Scotland's and Northern Ireland's citizenry wants to break away from the UK. Thus, more conflict.

The Northern Irish (largely Protestant) conflict in the Troubles from 1968 - 1998 flowed on into the Republic of Ireland (largely Catholic), so these two Irelands were not happy with each other. Indeed, many deaths and other tragedies occurred.

Waves of Irish and Scottish (largely Protestant, and Presbyterian to boot) immigrants went out to America, especially during the Potato Famines and took with them ill will toward the factions they disliked in the UK. Pockets of these immigrants said they hated either Irish Catholics (evidenced almost a century later in the muckraking of the 1960 Presidential Election campaigns against John Fitzgerald Kennedy), Irish Protestants, and the Irish in general.

Irish Protestants Are The Orange And Irish Catholics Are The Green

This is a stereotype that we still see in the 21st century.

The Irish Saved the Classics

How the Irish Saved Civilization Publisher: Anchor; Anchor Books ed edition
How the Irish Saved Civilization Publisher: Anchor; Anchor Books ed edition

Despite ill will toward the Irish as a whole, it cannot be denied that Irish priests preserved documents important to the world that would have been destroyed in wars.

 

"Why is your tie orange?"

(Sxc.hu by ltz)
(Sxc.hu by ltz)

"Why is your tie orange?"

This is what was asked of a particular wiseacre that was new to our high school that year. He liked to do things to attract attention to himself, and other students thought he was playing a similar prank with his tie on March 17.

An incoming junior, he wore an orange tie on St. Patrick's Day and was well known aournd school for being the son of the owner of a large tavern. His family was Irish, his grandparents having immigrated to America.

His answer to the tie question was that in Northern Ireland, the people wore orange as a sign of protest against the rest of Ireland and the Catholic Church. And indeed, the wiseacre's family was Lutheran for generations far back.

He went on to say that Italians wear red on March 17, instead of green. Students that tried to fact check this statement with teachers and other students of Italian heritage were disappointed, because nobody seemed to know about wearing red on St. Patrick's Day.

The school librarian also did not save the answer in any of her books and as always, appeared a little disgusted with the question. She always seemed somber and a bit disgusted and we learend later that she was a light-skinned African American and was not permitted by the school administration to admit her heritage to anyone in the school if she wanted to keep her job.

All this nationality prejudice and oppression added disgust to my own surprise of prejudice as a concept. It was not for two more decades that I would learn that some of my own ancestors moved from England to Ireland and their descendants came to America via Liverpool around 1800 - 1840, never admitting to Americans that they'd ever lived in Ireland. Prejudice against the Irish here was rampant.

When I learned at the same time of my Native American heritage and how that had been hidden as well, I was doubly disgusted by prejudice.

The Orange Order

Orange Order Flag

The Orange and the Green; The Blue and the Grey

Some people say today in the 21st century that wearing Orange on St. Patrick's Day is akin to wearing a Ku Klux Klan hood and robe on Martin Luther King Jr's birthday. This is a horror.

It seems evident that feelings are still running high between the Green and the Orange in some quarters.

All of this reminds me of the Blue and the Grey of the American Civil War, although the South became very creative with their uniforms - some even wore colorful kilts and sashes as well as grey uniforms.

To this day in my metro area, some Catholic Irish fathers in my community, in Ireland, and elsewhere in the world that check their children's clothing on March 17 in order to determine whether they have the smallest bit of orange on anywhere. These youngsters are not permitted to wear anything orange on the Irish holiday. This includes shoe laces, hair clips, underwear, and really everything. Some protestant Irish check for green. The bad feelings are not over.

See some pertinent news stories above about continuing conflicts between Irish factions.

As a working adult, I was able to mix the colors on St. Patrick's Day to good effect, as you can see further below.

Source

Divided Ireland

Click thumbnail to view full-size
Notice the proverb: Prepared for Peace, Ready for War.
Notice the proverb: Prepared for Peace, Ready for War.
Notice the proverb: Prepared for Peace, Ready for War. | Source

Modern Folk Songs

"The Orange and the Green"

-- by Anthony Murphy of Liverpool, England; Recorded by The Irish Rovers. Sung to the tune of The Wearin' o' the Green.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he.
My mother was a Catholic girl. From county Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough,
Until the day that I was born. Then, things got rather tough.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

Baptized by Father Reilly, I was rushed away by car,
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that,
To my father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll.
Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul.
For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.

My parents never could agree about my type of school.
My learning was all done at home, that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green.

Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green

Ireland and the Orange Order

The Orange Order: A Contemporary Northern Irish History
The Orange Order: A Contemporary Northern Irish History

Rarely have two colors signified such ongoing and brutal conflicts, attached to religious faiths as well.

 

Holiday Promotions for St. Patrick's Day with Orange and Green

In a chain steakhouse I managed, I'd been able to save a hundred pounds of steaks by selling them at a discount of 50¢ on each, rather than to let them expire. District-wide, the chain authorities had ordered too many per store for a promotion that did not succeed. However, my store lost very little revenue that day.

In light of this victory, I was able to use a little creativity on St. Patrick's day a few weeks later. Staff wore green pins, badges, and scarves in addition to their uniforms, we put up some simple decorations of green with a bit of orange, and we dyed the lemonade green - and sold all of it.

it was fun and sales were much higher than average for the day of the week and for the holiday date itself. Decorations had not been used previously, but patrons enjoyed our orange and green used for fun.. I wish it could be so elsewhere and that conflict would end.

Future Holidays

Our chain continued the St. Patrick's celebration -- Lots of restaurants conducted sales promotions around holidays and still do so. The next addition to our holiday was that of green shirts worn over the staff uniform, along with a few more decorations, and Irish music playing in the dining area.

It was all fun and the staff enjoyed working that day more than on others.The most fun was creating a rainbow on the wall out of different shades of green, with an orange pot of gold at the end. Thus, we used both colors without incident or objection, had fun, and raised sales as well.

Listen to the famous Irish Tenor John McCormack singing in the early 20th century (words below):

The Wearin' o' the Green - Irish Rebellion, 1798

The Wearin' o' the Green

This song was sung in the streets by the Irish to remind one another of their plight.

The Wearin' o' the Green (1798)

Oh, Paddy dear, and did you hear the news that's going round?

The shamrock is by law forbid to grow on Irish ground;

Saint Patrick's Day no more we'll keep, his colours can't be seen,

For there's a cruel law against the wearin' o' the green.

I met with Napper Tandy, and he took me by the hand,

And he said "How's poor old Ireland, and how does she stand?"

She's the most distressful country that ever yet was seen;

.

They're hanging men and women there for wearin' o' the green.

.

Then since the colour we must wear is England's cruel red,
Sure Ireland's sons will ne'er forget the blood that they have shed;
You may take the shamrock from your hand, and cast it in the sod,
But 'twill take root and flourish there, tho' underfoot 'tis trod.
When law can stop the blades of grass from growing as they grow,
And when the leaves in summertime their verdure dare not show,
Then I will change the color that I wear in my caubeen;

.

But till that day, please God, I'll stick to wearin' o' the green.

.

But if at last our color should be torn from Ireland's heart,
Her sons, with shame and sorrow, from the dear old isle will part;
I've heard whisper of a country that lies beyond the sea,
Where rich and poor stand equal in the light of freedom's day.
Oh, Erin! Must we leave you, driven by a tyrant's hand?
Must we ask a mother's blessing from a strange and distant land?
Where the cruel cross of England shall never more be seen,

.

And where, please God, we'll live and die still wearin' o' the green.


According to these lyrics, the color red was ascribed to England. So far, I cannot find a tradition of red in Italy on St. Patrick's Day.

Modern Renditions: "Minstrel Boy" & "Wearin' O' the Green" - Notre Dame Bagpipe Band

Dueling Electric Pipers - Electric Bagpipes

Irish and Irish American Recipes for St. Patrick's Day - One branch of my family moved from England to Ireland & Northern Ireland and another branch moved to Scotland long ago and they took up different faith denominations. All of them handed down many recipes, however.

Good Recipes For All Factions

Irish Potato Soup

I always enjoy this dish. For a chunkier version, just skip the blender step below. It's good with (or without) the nutmeg for another layer of flavor. You can also add cooked crumbled bacon as a garnish, bacon being the original meat served in the dish we now have as Corned Beef and Cabbage.

INGREDIENTS

  • 6 medium or 4 large potatoes
  • 1 large onion
  • 2 oz butter (or olive oil)
  • 1 Quart of vegetable stock
  • 1 Cup whole milk
  • 1 Tablespoon chopped chives
  • Nutmeg to taste (optional)
  • Salt & pepper to taste
  • 1 teaspoon of flour

INSTRUCTIONS

  • Wash and peel potatoes and cut into quarters.
  • Peel onion, cut in half and slice the halves thinly.
  • Melt butter in a pot and add potatoes and onions; cover and simmer over low heat for 10 minutes. Do not allow onions to brown.
  • Add stock, seasonings, and stir. Then cover and bring to boiling over medium-high heat (keep stirring).
  • Reduce heat to low, simmer 30 minutes until vegetables are tender.
  • Remove from heat and push through a sieve (or puree in your blender), back into the pot.
  • Stir in milk and flour, raise heat and boil (keep stirring).
  • Remove soup from burner and serve with garnish of chives.

More Irish Potatoes - and Onions

Here is another recipe with potatoes. I had not known it was Irish until someone informed me of that fact. For another version, stir in some cubes or shreds of your favorite cheese to melt at the end - - Swiss cheese is delicious in this recipe.

Irish Potatoes and Onions

You will need

  • 8 medium or 5-6 large potatoes
  • 1 bunch of green onions, sliced - all of the white and 1/3 of the greens
  • 1/2 Cup milk
  • Salt and pepper to taste
  • 3 Tablespoons butter

Instructions

  • Wash, peel, and boil potatoes in a pot with water to cover until soft.
  • In another pot over low heat, simmer onions in milk for 5 minutes.
  • Drain potatoes, return them briefly to the heat and stir to evaporate remaining water, and then remove from heat and mash.
  • Add the hot milk and onions, salt, pepper and the butter, mix and serve.

Green and the magical rainbow. I painted this design on a wall.
Green and the magical rainbow. I painted this design on a wall. | Source

© 2009 Patty Inglish

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Comments 41 comments

guidebaba profile image

guidebaba 7 years ago from India

My knowledge on St. Patrick's Day is NIL and hence i did not participate on this week's Hubmob but it always great to learn.

Cheers !


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Thank you so very much, guidebaba. Many HubMobbers are providing information, so I hope you have a splendid time this week!


guidebaba profile image

guidebaba 7 years ago from India

Yes Patty, this is what HP is all about.


ajcor profile image

ajcor 7 years ago from NSW. Australia

I love St Patricks Day and all the hoo ha that surrounds it - loved your hubmob particularly the historical information - have you come across information on the balck and tans? they were I believe an Irish fighting unit/battalion..thanks for this.....cheers


Anna Marie Bowman profile image

Anna Marie Bowman 7 years ago from Florida

Love the historical information!! I knew about the wearing of orange of Protestants in Northern Ireland. My family is from Ireland, but not the North. I think if I wore orange on St. Patty's Day, I might be shot. LOL!! Kidding, but there is definitely prejudice amongst Irish in regards to north vs south.


Netters profile image

Netters 7 years ago from Land of Enchantment - NM

I grew up not knowing what it was all about. Just that it was a day to wear something green. Thank you for all the great information, and the recipe.


Princessa profile image

Princessa 7 years ago from France

An interesting twist on the green theme. It is always fun to learn new things in here.


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

ajcor - I have heard of th eblack abnd tans, but know very little about them! So now I must learn.

Anna - it's a bit like North and South Korea, maybe worse, isn't it?

Netters - yes, we have to get some real information someplace else besides school sometimes. :)

Princessa - It makes the topics all the more fun and useful, I think. Great job with HubMob, btw!


eovery profile image

eovery 7 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa

This conflict has been second only to that in the  mideast.  Anyone wonder why when the English  marched down the streets in Ireland celebrating the day they overtook Ireland, that it would not cause revolting and violence.  I may be slow, be this was to the point of stupidness on the English part. But well, George Washington is still a trader in the English's eyes, but he is an American Hero in ours.

I did not know about the green and orange.  Knowing about this makes me want to not wear or take part in St. Patty's day anymore.

Keep on Hubbing!


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Well, I think that wearing bright red and marching in ranks across a field at an opponenet is pretty stupid as well, so no wonder the Swamp Fox and Geo. Washington were victors in the end, using more effective strategies.

I still enjoy St. Patrick's Day parades and such, but don't wear green to them - or red, certainly.


Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly 7 years ago from St. Louis

Nice info. I was unaware of the orange bit, which is a surprise to me. Thanks for the education!


KT pdx profile image

KT pdx 7 years ago from Vancouver, WA, USA

Great hub. I knew about the green, orange, red controversy. I'm Lutheran, and some of my family's from Northern Ireland, but my family wears both green and orange on St. Paddy's, because we're American now and mixed with other cultures as well. Good history lesson.


Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley 7 years ago from Saint Louis, MO

Great hub. Nice info! Not many people know about the orange. My husband is part orange-irish and thus wears orange on St. Patricks day.


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Thanks for all the comments - it's interesting to know what others do on St. Parick's Day - and what's customary and not.


Joe G 7 years ago

Understand that the English were committing genocide in Ireland. They were moving out the Irish and bring in Scottish people, hence the term "Scots-Irish."

The Black and Tans were basically, a terror squad that the Brits sent into Ireland to try and subdue the rebellion. They killed lots of innocent people women and kids.

To this day, I have run into English people who consider the Irish lazy and shiftless. Nothing much has changed.

Please don't think of this as an "Irish Problem", it is an "English One". If they had just let the people of Ireland live in peace, no of this whould have happened. But as it is, Ireland is still, culturally speaking, occupied land.

I can condone violence, but how would people feel if Iran took over the North East and said that Christianity and Judism were against the law, women had to wear head scarves, and citizens were imprisoned without charge, trial, or legal council. You wouldn't be too happy about it either.

To a free, united Ireland!


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

Thank you fopr your insights, Joe G.


thanatos 7 years ago

I am of irish desent in part of my family and when i was growning up i was always told i had to wear green on St Patricks day which l the legion of St Patrick is was that he drove the snakes out of ireland which is more myth than

people know what StPatrick really did was bring cathlic religon to the the displaced germania celts of irealand back in the erally days of ireland

and here is one more fact for those that beleive that celts are irish the truth is the celts came from anicent germany which was called germania that was drive from there home lands by the roman empire under julies ceaser

well later i learn as a teenager that a guy my dad worked with would wear oragne on St Patrick's Day which drove my dad Nuts seeing as her was raised cathilic well later in life as i made my own choice's what to wear i decided that the wearing of oragne on St Patricks Day would my way of tossing my dig in to both religious groups but also if any one does some checking you will find

that long side the irish wearing green on St Paticks Day that the mexicans do as well to Honner the St Patricks brigade that fought long side them agianst

General Sam Houston during the amercian mexican war over the boundary of the usa and mexico so these little facts may better help people understand

this day in history better as for i just like to be conterary to all forms regaurdless the reasons of ones own convitions and if you really want to

support oragne on this day do so but also can be a reminder as well of helen or Troy whom so loved every thing orange as well yet people only whant to wear orange or green hey where is some thing you can do as well why not wear white and just be netural and that way you can be really different


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 7 years ago from North America Author

I seem to be wearing Orange and Black today :) I must be hungry for Halloween taffies.


Dolores Monet profile image

Dolores Monet 7 years ago from East Coast, United States

we have a family friend, Irish, and when he does or says somethiing I think is out of line, one of us always pipes up 'well, what do you expect, he's Orange'


Mr Gino 7 years ago

Italians wear red in honor of St Joseph's (San Giuseppe) day, which is on the 19th. St Joseph is considered the patron saint of Sicily.


Robert Ball 7 years ago

My understanding is that the orange in the Irish tricolor flag does NOT stand for Protestants who were anti-(green) Irish, but stands for those Irish Protestants, mainly of the 18th and 19th centuries, who, by virtue of their power and influence, were the only ones who could effectively lead the movement to create an Irish parliament independent of England. Although their efforts failed, they are considered as heroes by Irish people. These Protestants were English in origin(source of their power), were truly Irish in most aspects and were devoted to the Irish people and their cause. Among the most notable were Henry Grattan, Henry Flood, James Caulfeild, and Charles Parnell. I wear my orange shirt with Irish tricolor with pride.


caretakerray 6 years ago

Patty Inglish, MS:

I never knew this. thanx for sharing ;)

caretakerray


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 6 years ago from North America Author

The Irish of either faith are gaining increasing respect over time, although hostilities from various corners still emerge - including abusive statements that none exist, although I see proof evey day.

In recent years, it was dicovered that the legend of ZORRO was based on a real IRISHMAN, doumented in records of Mexico, Spain, and the Vatican, that served in Mexico. A Hub about that is in the St. Patrick's Day mix as well.


emo-og 6 years ago

26 year war? the irish have been fighting the brits for over 800 years mate. its almost a hundred years since we reclaimed the 26 counties known as the republic. and the war may not be over yet. there is still bombings and shootings connected to paramilitary organisations every week.


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 6 years ago from North America Author

You're right of course, emo-og. 26 yrs was just a phase of it as I understand current events. On and one it goes, like the War in Iraq, and in some ways worse. I've heard about the bombings. The fact that some upstarts spread rumors that there's no hostility at all anymore in Ireland - or toward the Irish in America - is dead shameful.


Faybe Bay profile image

Faybe Bay 6 years ago from Florida

I never knew people were hanged for wearing green, just that the Irish considered wearing green unlucky. Now I know why!


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 6 years ago from North America Author

Here's the evidence for the Irishman that was the basis for Zorro:

http://hubpages.com/holidays/The-I-Files-Zorro-the...


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 6 years ago from North America Author

Interesting events occurred on St. Patrick's Day 2010. I received some 19th Century anti-Irish propaganda that was circulating around the Internet, depicting the Irish as ape-human hybrids of some sort. Then there were the usual yearly emails about Irish being all negative qualities one can imagine. I heard some anti-Irish sentiments in my own MidWest community as well.

Another intriguing event occurred a few days earlier at WalMart in Washington TWP NJ, as per the AP " A male voice came over the public-address system Sunday evening at a store in Washington Township, in southern New Jersey, and calmly announced: "Attention, Walmart customers: All black people, leave the store now." Humanity has not yet grown up in all quarters.


swedal profile image

swedal 5 years ago from Colorado

The only tradition I really knew about with St Patrick's Day was wearing green and drinking green - beer that is.

Where is that orange food coloring??? ;)


Chris Burgett 5 years ago

Maybe you can help understand something. I am from Scottish descent and I live in the U.S. with not much education on how things work back in my homeland. My great-grandmother always insisted we wear orange on St. Patrick's day as a sign of Scottish Pride. But, now most people think I am a bigot against the Irish or I am an Irish Protestant. Is there a better color I could wear on St. Patrick's day to show my Scottish Pride?


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 5 years ago from North America Author

That's a good question, Chris, but I have no answer. I never knew any of the relatives that moved to Scotland. I wonder if Craig Ferguson would answer if you sent in an email to his nightly email segment on CBS?


Amylia 5 years ago

I just don't understand why there is so much fighting between Catholics and Protestants - and not only in Ireland.

I live in Ontario, Canada, and went to a Christian bookstore where I asked if they had any Catholic editions of the bible. They told me that they only serve "real" Christians and of course wouldn't carry anything Catholic.

I just find it so bewildering... we know that we don't agree on some key issues, but can't we still treat one another with dignity and respect?

I did not wear green or orange yesterday, as I personally am not from Ireland, have never been there, and don't completely understand the political implications.


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 5 years ago from North America Author

And I see Google bypassed a logo in green in order to ensure people thought and did more about Japan. We had the usual parade here yesterday, but it was pretty quiet. I still hear anti-Catholic trashtalk occasionally. I have many Catholic friends and attend mass with them, participating in the parts in which I feel comfortable. No big deal for us!


Spirit Whisperer profile image

Spirit Whisperer 5 years ago from Isle of Man

You will find that Irish abroad are far more nationalistic than the ones at home. Growing up in Southern Ireland in the 60's and 70's we viewed Northern Ireland as another planet. Anyone brought up in an atmosphere of such hatred in Northern Ireland stood no chance and in some parts the hatred survives to this day.My grandfather fought the British and the Black and Tans but felt ashamed of the IRA who killed innocent men, women and children with their bombs. My grandfather was a brave man and viewed what the IRA did in Northern Ireland as cowardly acts. Thanks for a great hub. Voted up!


craig237 5 years ago

chris burgett, you need to really read up on scottish history, scotland was a gaelic catholic country until the reformation, then became the divide, catholic highlanders and protestant lowlanders. and as far as the english, what they did to scotland for 800 years was far worse than what was done to ireland, theres a reason king edward is calles "the hammer of the scots", he slaughtered scottish men, women and children by the thousands for fun. to this day anti-english settiment lives on, as it should, scotland was oppressed by english law for a long time, 6 months imprisonment for wearing a kilt or speaking scots-gaelic. scotland is moving closer and closer to independence. they still have orange order parades in scotland to commemorate the defeat of the jacobites at the battle of the boyne. bunch of twats! my great grandad had his head bashed in by a member of the orange order because he was a catholic highlander and spoke only scottish-gaelic. people tend to toss scotland aside becaue of the 1707 union of the crowns not realizing how tyrant the english were to scotland. Not with standing all the viking/norse raids the scots had to fend off. scottish not british!


bennyderry 4 years ago

It is amazing that Irish Protestants who went to America and Canada became Americans or Canadians whereas the Irish catholics always stayed Irish just think about it because its true


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 4 years ago from North America Author

I think you are right, bennyderry.


Liz 4 years ago

This is the history me da taught us regards the Irish and the old Scots trips to the new country.

Irish Protestants had mainly settled and intermarried by the civil war, Catholic Irish had their major influx 200 yrs later.

Orange riots led to the banning of many Orange orders so many Protestants of Irish heritage felt they had lived so many generations in America and were accepted more as Americans than as Protestant Irish.

Kerry lass myself so we don't accept Northern Ireland as UK it is all Ireland but we will never accept murder of women and children to have anything to do with Christianity or being Irish and many of us southerners feel the same. We have kin North East England who also suffered at the hands of southern monarchy and Scots too, no one was safe then from religious and economic ruin by the rich and powerful.

We like our American cousins and love their delight in all things Irish. But we never drink green beer, stout or a shot for us and my gran would die of fright if we all wore green but that belief is dying out.

Americans with Irish ancestors are family to Irish and of Irish descent which you should be proud of and we are proud of you but you are only simply Irish bennyderry if born on the Isle, Catholic or no, you are Irish American- which is great so why drop being American! Its a great place to come from. My great granda was Welsh but I am not seen here as a Welsh lass but Irish with a one granda from Wales.

Old faith tho we are me Gran says green is the colour of the wee folk and brings bad luck and that is why we hang Iron horse shoes on our doors to keep the wee green folk from terrorising us by stealing away our babies or spoiling the milk!


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 4 years ago from North America Author

Thanks very much, Liz. That's very useful information to us.


Liz 4 years ago

Sorry very rude of me, I forgot to say ta to you for your article, great wee read.


Patty Inglish, MS profile image

Patty Inglish, MS 4 years ago from North America Author

Thanks to you as well - I enjoyed all your comments and information.

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