72 Year Old Woman Gets Tasered
6872 Year Old Woman Gets Tasered
A 72 year old woman gets tasered in Texas after resisting arrest and being warned multiple times that the officer was going to use the taser gun on her. The 72 year old woman is a great-grandmother. Her name is Kathryn Winkfein. Kathryn Winkfein was pulled over for speeding. She was doing 60 miles per hour in a construction zone. She refused to sign a speeding ticket that the officer had issued her. She would not cooperate with the officer, used profanity and was threatening him.
JLHanna, a 22 year old college student and I, a 48 year old out of work due to a severe back injury, had a discussion about the use of tasers and whether we feel that Kathryn Winkfein should have been tasered.
Introduction
Me - I was horrified when I saw the newsclip on the news that showed a 72 year old woman getting tasered. There are a lot of angry citizens in British Columbia, Canada over the tasering of Robert Dziekanski at the Vancouver International Airport on October 14, 2007. Robert was coming to Canada to live with his mother, who had worked hard to save enough money to bring her son here. Robert became confused and distraught after spending hours in customs and not being helped. He did not speak english very well.
JLHanna - I could just imagine how many people are upset over this one, look at the what happened with Robert Dziekanski. This was absolutely ridiculous can you not use a little bit of energy to put her cuffs rather than just taser her.
1. Do you think it is right that a 72 year old gets tasered?
Me - I have mixed feelings on this issue. I saw the news clip and while I do think the officer was in his rights to taser Kathryn for being unruly, I think the officer should have taken her age into consideration.
JLHanna - There was no need for her to be tasered. She wasn't being physical, nor did she have a weapon on her. It would have been a lot crueler to use physical force and put her on the ground to cuff then to taser her. What would have happened if she'd had a heart attack? Has there not been enough problems with tasers and deaths.
2. Do you think the officer could have done something other than taser her?
Me - My first thought when I saw the video was why didn't the officer have a backup with him. If there was a backup officer, while the one officer was speaking with Kathryn, the other could have come up behind her and then proceed to hand-cuff her.
JLHanna - Little old ladies have a lot of fight in them but I doubt they could seriously hurt an officer. So, why didn't the officer use a little more physical force to get the cuffs on her? There has to be some kind of age limit put on tasers that officers are not allowed to breach. Why would anyone want to taser an old person when there is always a chance they could have a heart attack right there in front of you.
3. After watching the video, do you think the officer was within his right to taser her?
Me - I do not believe in taser guns at all. However, that is the tool police officers are given to use. I don't know why there aren't more effective means for officers to diffuse a situation like this.
JLHanna - After watching the video, no I don't think he had any right at all. It seemed more like he just didn't want to deal with her and the quickest way to end it was to nail her to the ground with a taser. There had to be some other way to get her in cuffs, she was 72 years old!!! A taser gun, instead of a gun, is perfectly fine to use when it is really needed; but was anything really needed. How much could a little old lady hurt you and if that's what you were afraid of then you need to find a new job.
4. Do you think Kathryn Winkfein was being argumentative?
Me - I think Kathryn Winkfein was being argumentative. I think she was provoking the officer into tasering her. She should have been more respectful to the officer and she should have just signed the ticket she was given. She knew she was speeding so she should have just taken her punishment instead of aggravating the situation.
Jhanna - She was definately being argumentative and could have made the whole situation a lot better by just signing the speeding ticket. When he shoved her out of the way to get off the road she was saying she would sign the ticket so instead of yelling at her why didn't he just let her sign it. I guess you're not allowed to ever have a bad day and argue with an officer. If you do, I guess you should expect to get tasered and not given a second chance to just sign the stupid peice of paper.
5. If officers have to use taser guns, do you think the victim's age should be taken into consideration?
Me - I definitely think the victim's age should have been taken into consideration. I don't think the officer should have tasered her because of her age.
JLHanna - Maybe not in all circumstances. If the person was holding a weapon and they were trying to take them into custody then by all means, regardless of age, taser them. She didn't have a weapon, she wasn't throwing punches at him, and HE DIDN"T EVEN TRY TO CUFF HER. He just tasered her to shut her up so he wouldn't have to deal with her. I'm sure he very easily could gotten the cuffs on her some oher way.
Conclusion
Me - I think Kathyrn Winkfein should not have provoked the officer and I do not think that she should have been tasered though. What is wrong with people these days? Why do they always have to provoke someone into a fight or doing something they don't want to do. I don't think the officer wanted to taser her. He gave her plenty of warnings. I think all of us, including elderly, should take a good look at how we treat our fellow human beings if we want issues like this to stop happening.
JLHanna - She definitely shouldn't have provoked the officer, but she's an elder. I think some people from back in the day would be rolling in their graves at the thought of an elder being tasered. In their day, the native Americans held great esteem for their elders. Today, it just seems like nobody has time for the ones who aren't family and just want to deal with them and be done with them.
Actual Raw Video from Officer's Dashcam
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lafenty, thank you for your comment. I'm sure though that there must have been some other way to deal with this.
The woman was completely uncooperative. He could have possibly tried to handcuff her before attempting to taser her, but once he warned her he would taser her she dared him to do it. She could have easily backed down and decided to be cooperative at that point. I know I would! But she left him no choice.
She was being a pain in the ass. What else was he supposed to do? The law is the law, she was breaking it and being totally defiant. Age is not a factor here.
Hi KCC BIg Country and REN, thank you for your comments. While I agree that the woman was uncooperative, I still think the officer should have taken her age into consideration.
The woman herself thinks her age 'buys' her out of everything. She was in the wrong and should have accepted her ticket and then she could appeared in court and challenge the ticket if she wanted. At that point, she could have told the judge that she thought being 72 gave her the right to plow through a work zone doing 60. At 72, you'd think she would have learned by now how the law works.
He warned her. It was HER choice to get tasered at 72.
KCC Big Country, I guess I just feel sorry for her because of her age.
http://www.dailystab.com/72-year-old-woman-gets-ta
Watch the video on this one. It shows him trying to hand-cuff her and she pulls her arm away and says she's going to get back in her truck.
KCC Big Country, I saw the original newscast and I did see the video, I know the woman was in the wrong but again she was 72 years old.
That's what she wants Dwilliamson, and I'm not buying it.
KCC Big Country, I know that is what she wants. However, I can't help how I feel.
I definitely think the woman was being unreasonable, and although she was elderly, she was not unable to move arounf freely or yell and curse. Yes, I agree the police officer seems a little unreasonable, because she curses at him and he replies almost immediately with yelling at her. He did not handle the situation with courtesy. The woman did not have a gun...she was not hitting him. All she did was taunt him. The blame is definitely on both sides in my opinion.
Very interesting hub....:-)
What if you didn't know she was 72 and just watched the video? What if she was 42? Would you still feel the same?
Thank you for your comment Caitlinlea. I believe the situation could have easily have been difused very easily by both sides but neither side would give in.
KCC Big Country, I actually don't believe in tasering anyone. We've had a situation here in British Columbia with Robert Dziekanski, a Polish man that was tasered at the Vancover International Airport and died. I just feel tasering anyone is wrong.
How do we know she didn't have a gun? Not that I believe she did! But, he hadn't patted her down yet. They don't do that until they cuff them.
People have died from being restrained and handcuffed as well.
KCC, no I don't believe she had a gun either. There has to be another way of handling this situation though.
She made a lot of mistakes. Speeding. Thinking that her age entitled her to special consideration. Using obscenity. Not backing up so the officer could get out of the traffic lane. And saying "Go ahead. Tase me". (One could say she literally asked for it.)
You will note there are some omissions in the tape, as well. We may not have the full story.
Rochelle Frank, thank you very much for your comment. You are right, we may not have the full story.
One thing I have heard over the years in numerous cases is you should never resist arrest and always cooperate with the police officer. One young man was shot by a young sheriff because he resisted arrest and ran from the room. In another story a woman was sitting in her car alone and was shot by police officers because he refused to get out, and they thought she was going to shoot herself with a gun.
I know there is police corruption, but overall cops are doing their job to keep us safe. It is shocking to hear stories about a 72 year old woman tasered, but I think if she had cooperated with the cops righ away that might not have happened. If an officer asks you to do something you should definitely not complain because they will see resistance as a threat of violence on their person. Afterall, there are times when unsuspecting officers have hesitated and been shot by people. The officer probably did not know at first whether the lady had a weapon or not.
Hey SweetiePie, thank you for your comment and you are definitely correct about resisting arrest. I agree with you 100% percent.
Regardless of what justifications can be argued here, the officer was out of line, has not the control to be on the job, and exhibited no discretionary ability. It must be understood that these uniformed people are nothing but private citizens who are intended to perform a public service. They have no right to be doing this...especially to a grandmother, 72, that was not posing any threat whatsoever. As well, they choose to be cops, and fear is no excuse for bad behavior.
Reading various pamphlets and training manuals places one in a more educated position. I have perused some, and they are embicilic and full of false claims. They also seek to criminalize patriotic citizens who quote the constitution and demand to be afforded their rights.
On the subject of resisting arrest. Merely refusing to sign a traffic ticket is not against the law, and is no reason for arrest. As well, resisting arrest is now one of the main excuses for excessive force, is lied about excessively, and it is soon to come under extreme scrutiny.
urimidden, thank you so much for your comment. I appreciate it very much. It explains a lot to me about the law and the rights of citizens.
Refusing ro sign a traffic ticket doesn't make it anymore enforceable. It is the states way of covering their butt when the one that got the ticket staes ne never got it. It is a formality not a law. What if this was the officer's grandmother? Would he be angry that someone did that to his? Ofcourse. He out of line, should have called for backup. Due to this woman's age has anyone considered she might have slight dementia? In that case she shouldn't have been driving but it was still uncalled for.
dori
very good point about dementia, dori and also about whit if it was the officer's grandmother there is no way he would have stood for this
Some of you people are totally insane to believe that in this situation this officer had the "need" to taser this woman. I worked in the law enforcement field for 18 years and there is a standard policy of escalation of force. This woman offered no threat to the safety or security of this officer, herself nor anyone else, and she didn't provide a flight risk. At no point this this jerk of an officer attempt to restrain this woman physically. The taser should have been used only if she refused his lawful orders to assume the arrest position. I firmly believe that he overreacted to her behavior and abused his authority. The officer is supposed to maintain his authority AND his temper. He's the trained professional....
Thank you for your comment VandarStrauss. I agree with you 100%.
dwilliamson and JLHanna, thanks for a hub that brings attention to something that BADLY needs attention brought to it. I agree very strongly with VandarStrauss's comment... in fact, 'agree' is putting it too mildly. Something else that needs to be said: when the woman was saying "i'm 72 years old, go on and taser me," that was NOT provocation. Maybe some other things she did or said before that might be. But--and I can't believe that I actually would have to explain this--- but I guess in this day and age people have really gotten so robotically LITERAL about everything-- when she was saying "go on and taser me", she was being SARCASTIC. And sometimes when we are sarcastic, it's not just because of the recent decline in public civility, or because we're being snide and disrespectful. In case everyone's forgotten, sarcasm and irony are ways to try to point out to the recipient of the sarcasm that they are behaving in a way that is NOT RATIONAL. And if some little 'officer' can't even take a little sarcasm, from a little old lady no less, well, what can I say? Is that being manly? No. Or maybe I'm wrong. Let's just get it over with, and give playground bullies tasers too. Better still, let's tell boyscouts that when they offer to help old grandmothers across the street, if they encounter any backtalk from any of said grandmothers, to show the old hags who's boss. I think a tasering merit badge would certainly instill in our youth the qualities they need to be the citizens and leaders of tomorrow.
watcher by night thank you so much for your comment. Both JLHanna and I appreciate it very much and we both did pick up on the fact that the 72 year old woman was using sarcasm.
I can't believe there is any discussion about whether she should have been tasered, this is just nuts ! Have they been arrested ? If not they should be. What did they used to do before they had tasers ? Shoot people? It's an absolute disgrace - I can only assume the cops in question were mentally defective in some way, which is not very reasssuring.
I totally agree with VanDarStrauss. Who could possibly believe a 72 year ol dwoman should be electrocuted for not signing a ticket? What sort of nutty country is this ?
And if 2 6 foot cops can't restrain a 72 year old woman then they have no business being cops - has everybody gone nuts !?
Singular Investor, thank you for your comment and yes, the fact that she was tasered is very disgraceful and it sure makes you wonder about this world anymore doesn't it.
I think the cop is one of those power freaks. You have some people (mostly cops) who let their power go to their head. Look at how he screamed at her, thats not very professional he never showed any coolness. It looked as if he wanted to do it anyway, I hope someone does it to his mother.
Eric, thank you for your comment. You bring out some good points there.
ow..very awful..the title speaks it all
DAltor, thank you for your comment and I agree with you.
lafenty says:
7 months ago
Perhaps the officer was just following police procedure. Also, if he had tried wrestling her to the ground he may have hurt her and then would have been called out for polce brutality. I don't see that she gave him much choice.