America, We're Not Spoiled!
69Land of The Brave, The Free, The Employed
Update: 07-01-08 Well, the bad news is: Oil continues to go up and we continue
to drive like maniacs on the road consuming the $4.19+ gas.
The good news is: My birthday is July 19th and I'm still around
to grip about all this. Otherwise, there isn't any good news to report, though
I am ever watchful. Page views are nearly 700, just a few more needed.
Update: 05-12-08: We all Did It and I thank you! This hub
now has more than 600 page views!!!
Update 05-03-08: Hillary Clinton, on CNN this morning, mentioned
that oil experts and analyzers have stated that supply and demand
is not the reason for the high gas prices; rather they are directly
related to energy traders who are inflating the price by what
could be illegal trading. She wants an investigation. See how
easily "they" blame the consumers? I really have not increased
the amount of my driving in years. And, like most Americans, the
high costs of other things have contributed to my driving only to
and from necessities, with very few pleasure trips.
Supply and Demand put the cost of oil about about $56.00 per barrel.
Hmm, wonder where the rest of the money is going? Complicated issue.
---------------------------
I'm mad and fed up, so read at your own risk!
I'm on my soap box today! Gas is up, groceries are up, everything is on the rise and the "experts" in the economy say we're spoiled and need to cut back!! O' that's a solution.
We're NOT SPOILED
I'm sick of being told we need to cut back and that America is spoiled. I guess it's better if we're more like the "world?" It's my fault that I need to get to work, need gas in the car, food on the table, and want to see a movie once in a while? Oh yeah, baby I'm living way past my means.
Someone's starving, somewhere so I need to give up my car to drive to the store and ride a bike. Of course! What was I thinking!
What in the "world" are they talking about? Because some other country doesn't live like we do doesn't make us automatically spoiled.
Why does America have food, fuel, housing, roads? We "have" because people here worked for "it." We became what we are because we PRODUCED! Production doesn't make you spoiled; it shows you're smart.
Collectively, we have more because we produce more.
Stop telling me I'm spoiled and I should just cut back so the TRULY spoiled - BIG OIL COMPANIES - can keep THEIR riches, enjoy their yachts, big tax breaks, government subsidies, AND spoiled style of living.
Even so, if they make, they can spend it - that's the American Dream. However, I'm living the nightmare that is supporting their Dream, so it's a little lopsided. Yet, THEY tell the rest of us: we're "spoiled," inferring that our expectation of being able to pay for the drive to work is not realistic, we should walk or ride a bike. They'd like that, wouldn't they.
Better yet, give the job to the alien/illegal immigrant who needs one because his country does not produce, keeping all the riches for themselves.
What's wrong with you? You expect food on the grocery shelves; gasoline at the gas station; milk less than $4 bucks a gallon (about the price of gas)? Why, you spoiled person, you. After all, some people in third world countries are going hungry. I'm not unsympathetic, honest, read on:
So, how does my starving as well, help them? Doesn't it make more sense to keep me working, with money in my pocket, so I can share my wealth and contribute to programs that help them?
I'm all for using wind (even hot air), and solar energy. I'm all for learning to go green. I'm completely supportive of using our own oil and cutting back on foreign anything.
I'm even willing to pay more for American made products instead of what China ships in, so, you big companies that utilize foreign labor, I have a suggestion!
WHY DON'T YOU CUT BACK? You're so spoiled with all that cheap labor, why don't you sacrifice some money and bring jobs back to Americans? Where's YOUR loyalty to our country and way of life? How many SUV's, yachts, foreign money accounts do YOU own?
America is a land of productivity. We grow our food, we drill our oil, we fish our rivers, we build our houses and roads, we WORK. There is no sin in producing.
It is not spoiled to invent, learn, explore the universe, or buy yachts. It is wrong when we do so at the expense of common sense and decency; enslaving those who produce so those who hire the workers can enjoy luxuries.
That mind set reeks of Land Owners telling their share croppers who slaved away so they could have steaks, to "eat bread and quit wanting so much; shut up; be glad you've got a job; look at all that I do for you by allowing you to work on my farm."
Why is it called "foreign aid" to give billions to other countries; yet it's socialism if we help our own people??? Well, give me a little socialism, please, with cream and sugar on it, if it helps take the homeless off the street and stops me from becoming one of them. Don't enslave me and then try to sell me the idea I want too much!
Don't imply because I want what's fair and right, as I work, that I want too much and am spoiled. Don't tell me to "cut back" while you spend.
Let all those who work, spend. Let all those who have, give. Let's all invent. Let's all go green. Let's all re-cycle and do the things that will keep our planet healthy.
Let's cut back on waste, not milk; cut back on foreign oil drilling, not domestic; cut back on gas profits, not gasoline to get to work and pay for as much pleasure as we desire and can afford.
We're being told we can't go to movies, shop, and spend our time and money as we wish because we just want too much. Just "Cut back, America!" Quit expecting the gasoline to be fairly priced, the grocery shelves full, the enjoyment of life to be yours.
I say "Talk Back, America!" and Talk Loudly. Tell our congressmen we mean business, OUR business. We want it back. We want our oil companies to quit receiving government subsidies when they have record profits. THEY need to cut back.
We want our men and women home from Iraq. It's a civil problem; it's THEIR problem; we can help them in advice, engineering, inventions. - Hey, I know...they can buy products from US! What a novel idea! They can use their own oil to pay for their own growth. They can spill their own blood to solve their own problems, we did.
Just because Bush decided to change their government, lied, and went after their oil, doesn't mean we have to throw good money after bad. It needs to be over. They'll survive and America can have it's children, husbands, daughters, brothers and sisters, BACK. Now, we're even sneaking into Iran. God help us all - will we last until we can vote Bush out?
Will I ever be glad when we've got a fresh start with a new President, but it's not enough. We have to write a simple letter and let our representatives know we want our lifestyle not to be threatened by the truly spoiled and greedy.
Don't feel guilty for wanting to feed and clothe your family, or take that vacation. Our ancestors worked hard to get us where we are, and though we may be wasteful, and need to make sensible changes, we are not spoiled by wanting a good life. Everyone on the planet wants that.
Let's work, and expect to get paid a good wage for our productivity.
You want to be motivated to Talk Back? Picture Cheney saying right into the camera "so?" when he was told Americans did not approve of an extention of the war.
"SO????" At that moment, I wished for "smack-a-vision." How dare he discount our opinion, our heart? How dare he, an elected official, have such disrespect for the voice of Americans?
Talk Back America!
Go express yourself. It's easy.
Sweet Liberty
Bounce Back, America!
America, We Love You
Remember When?
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Comments
Marisue, I love your hub! Also, I simply can't believe, how one single person and his team could so very used/abused American people as it has happened in last years. They spent more than $3 trillion just for the dirty war with only one goal in their mind, to push the oil prices to the record level, ever at $117 per barrel and to pocket bizarre profits as owners, shareholders, board members, consultants, etc. of big Oil corporations.
How was all that possible?
I still strongly believe in American Dream II, though
thank you for your comments!! just write to congress, we all make a difference!!! we do we do we do.
minnie's mom, I'm so glad I was your java this morning...I'm so weary of the news and their blame the victim approach! only the victim is never in their mirror. only ours. the CONSUMER. sigh. i guess i need to calm down. LOL
Never forget Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, home office in my home town of Duncan Oklahoma, now he's vice pres and Halliburton just happened to get the no bid contract for all the work in IRAQ ---- billions and billions of dollars to date.
Don't forget Cheney's secret meeting with oil and energy cartell his first year in the White House....solarshingles....THAT'S how it was possible...while we slept.
Marisue, "you go girl!" I couldn't agree more... but I'm not going to write to anybody. It doesn't do any good. I'm hoping things will improve when the spoiled, worthless, illiterate, don't-have-a-clue dumbshit is finally out of office. Geez, what a fiasco it's been!
well you always have a voice...you count! this has been the worst president I think in our history...at least in my lifetime and in the lifetime of many in their 70's and up...sooo I think whoever gets in there...we better be watchin' a bit more closely
here s to a good future for the world =)
It seems like our "middle class" is slowly fading away- the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer.For the life of me I just can't understand Exxon's RECORD PROFITS, it just makes me sick, sick, sick.And Banks like Bear Stearns going down, lots of hardworking people losing their "investments", yet the major players walking away with bundles. Where is the justice in that? They screw up and create a huge mortgage fiasco and then get bailed out by the federal government with a hand slap!Oh, I'm getting on MY SOAPBOX NOW!!Great hub!
I agree that Bush is the worst president ever, and so does Rolling Stone magazine. Check this out: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/996
PS: I LOVE the cover art.
Dorsi, I agree, our poor country is in a horrible mess; I went to the grocery store this morning for a fresh bowl of fruit to snack today at the office and one small bowl of fresh berries was $8.67!! I nearly cried. A sack of 5 lb white potatoes (unfortunately my favorite) was $4.99 5 lbs!!! ( I do go to a farmers stand nearby and can get them for $.99 -- they use them as a draw to get people into the stand and I will admit they've not been "culled" so you have to cut out a few spots...but still its a huge savings...) --- then, I decided to do a quick walk thru and many products I normally buy had risen 25 cents up to $1.50 more...
geeeeze you have to wonder how much is truly because of gas prices and how much is just because they can. I'm really getting scared as some people are really going to feel this worse than others...right here in America -I just can't believe it!
check out the article Constant walker gave the link to...its great! but it will also make you mad. I know we'll survive, of course we will, yet it's going to be harder than its ever been for most of us. We'll be living as many of our great grandparents did during the depression.
I say: Prepare@! Purchase some seeds, just in case, and get familiar with containter gardening, etc. gotta eat. =)
suddenly, movies and outings are taking on a whole new look. like "nada." maybe going for a walk will be the next entertainment and we'll all get gorgeous....now there's a thought haha
I always felt America was one country which could absorb people from all over the world...and still have plenty to offer to many.The Super Power will always remain the Super Power.Power packed hub marisue!
Abhinaya, ( how do you pronounce your name?) America, the land of the free, is a beacon to the world. We have many things to correct so that we remain that beacon - I love this country and am afraid for us at the same time. We just need to be fully awake as we correct these problems.
I'm so glad you still like America too. We should always have doors open for people who want to work and help us stay great! Thanks so much for reading and commenting!
It's very difficult to feel pride for America right now... with all the corruption and crap that's going on in government... and with healthcare... and with insurance policies, etc, etc. At the moment the only thing I feel is embarrassment for how the rest of the world must look at us. I've seriously, honestly considered defecting to Canada. But I do, somewhere deep inside, still like this country and still hold out hope that it will get better... once the idiot is gone.
I think we've lost our way. We've got to roll up our sleeves and clean house. A good Spring (in this case Fall) cleaning never hurt a house.
God Bless the USA - the rest of us need to do our part. Let's dig in our heels...you know I think that the reason this happened, is that representatives got elected and then we went to sleep; trusting them to do their job. But let me ask you this: Would you hire someone and then never inspect their work?
No. You inspect what you expect. Any good business does that. At my job, we are constantly checked for every dotted eye and crossed t. Is it aggravating?
Most certainly. And, if I were the boss I'd do it too.
People do what is inspected not what is expected. =) hang in there and speak your mind....have I inspired you yet to write that letter? I have a story about a letter I sent to Bill Clinton when he was president. One voice DOES get noticed...I will do a HUB soon about it. Frankly, I liked the man; he wasn't my moral guide anyway. He goofed. It was stupid. Painful for his family. He loaded the gun for the press and Republicans; I'm sure he'd like to undo it....Looking back to my life; I'd like to undo a few things too...but all gave me wisdom, such as it is.
thanks again for commenting...(p.s. write that letter!)
OOOOH WEEEE ! Wow, I don't know what side of the bed you woke up on before you wrote this, but it sure wasn't the "ho hum" side! And from all these comments, my goodness! you thoroughly touched a whopping ol' achy nerve! And here I thought hubs about hard boiled eggs was more your genre :) LOL
desert blondie-----yeah, i went to the grocery store before work, and I listened to the news...set the tone for disaster...LOL
Well, I can bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan....soooo i write about just about everything...read more of my hubs for my foster parenting adventures....it's been a ride! =)
Great rant!!! :D Write On. ;)
I added the key word "rant." thanks! LOL thanks for stopping by!!
Marisue, I'm assuming that letter to Bill (I liked him, too) is a good story because it actually reached him, and he actually read it, then he actually gave a shit. Do you think any of that will happen with The Idiot? Certainly not.
I have no problem with my state representative, and my state senator, mayor, etc. And I could write to him and/or her and bitch about Bush, but I'd be preaching to the choir. The Idiot no more listens to them than he does us.
If the worthless f@#! has been able to pull all the crap he's thus far pulled and gotten away with it, do you really think a few letters are going to faze him? At least half of the citizenry of this country are outraged and mad as hell. They've written tons of letters, they've protested in the streets and they've bitched til they're blue in the face. The Idiot's approval rating is the lowest in history. Does any of that faze him? Is he even aware of any of it? I think no, on both counts.
Our only light at the end of the tunnel as that he can't buy his way into another term, and I swear to God, I'm terrified of him doing just that... and getting away with it!
Thumbs up Marisue! We're in the same boat here in Canada. It costs 5.69 for a bag of milk here. It's crazy.
We should all band together and rant on and on
great hub regards Zsuzsy
I can't wait for Bush the idiot-boy and Cheney the master puppeteer to be gone, gone, gone. I only hope they don't attack Iran on their way out the door. It's been piggies at the trough for eight years and I fear there is a lot of cleaning up to be done. We all better roll up our sleeves and get to it! Terrific rant, Marisue.
Grat hub Marisue! Constantwalker--I'm an American that's recently become a Canadian transplant. Agree with Zsuszy Vee above, I love it here, but trust me--prices here are just as insane. Today I'm paying $1.32 per litre of gas. Food? Forget about it. Ridiculous. Oh, and it's like super expensive to poison yourself too. $10 a pack of smokes, $10 for a 6 pack of beer.
Futonfraggle (love that name), if I were to leave the US -and I'm not- it wouldn't be because of the cost of living. It would be because of Bush - but he'll be gone soon, the shameful state of our healthcare (does everyone there still have healthcare?), the corporate pharmaceutical scams which are running rampant and unchecked, the legal extortion which is our insurance industry in which one is penalized should he ever actually need the service he pays for, and numerous other national embarrassments. Some would say it's because we've become complacent, and that may be true, but we've got a lot of watchdog organizations who are calling all these people on this crap, but it just doesn't seem to matter. The all mighty dollar greases palms, shuts up the complainers and allows them a free ticket. Very discouraging.
you guys are wonderful!!! Love every comment...I know it's discouraging when we don't get the attention of those elected to serve - somehow, we've got to keep trying, -- that and our vote are our only option. I sure hope we never repeat this kind of mistake again. It's hard to see into the future, and I don't think even those who voted for Bush ever thought we would end up in this shape.
Personally, I think the bush/Cheney years are chocked full of crimes, against Iraq, against us, and against our laws - who knows what would be uncovered. Scarey
Prepare, Prepare, America, we've got some struggles ahead. We can make it....we have to. Great comments, fellow hubbers!
Well as a very amateur economist I can tell you that not buying "foreign goods" as you say will not solve the problem. Since it was a rant and you just needed to get it off your chest I won't go into the details, but you cannot go back to the way things were. Globalization is here and it brings you low cost goods at the register but with a huge social cost. I live in France now and I am an American citizen and I can tell you Americans sure look spoiled with their low priced gas, easy money for buying homes(I know not anymore but it was never so easy in Europe), low taxes(yes you have low taxes), and lax business climate.
It is not the immigrants
It is not the foregn goods
It is the free pass given to corporations and businesses that has doomed us, right left center religious, non religious, etc. When you find common ground across the political spectrum you know you've hit a nerve.
While I disagree with a lot of what you write I think it is important to let everyone know how steaming mad we are at the state of things.
In France I have excellent health care and I am just a student. I pay $0 and have better coverage than i ever had in the US, I am a student but I am not young so I have struggled with health care in the US. It is so mysterious why we cannot imagine a single payer system, not really, but I cannot accept that it is just because we are so beholden to insurance companies.
well so much for my little rant.
Marisue YOU are spoiled!You sit there and whine about gas prices being too high... well my dear it is high because we consume too much. Stop the consumption and the prices will go down. Sell your American Made 5000lb SUV that gets 8mpg and buy a foreign made econo that gets 50mpg and maybe the U.S. won't need to increase drilling for oil in our country.
Of course it doesn't bother you at all that the only reason why our oil was so cheap to begin with was because our government leaders were sleeping with the Saudis. Now the Saudis want to cash in and yank our chain so they can fund more Terrorist groups like the Taliban and poor people like you who are used to living beyond their needs and their means can only sit and cry.
By the way your comment about giving the job to the "alien"... very classic. Google up some stats and you will see that the majority of our high tech jobs, science jobs, even top level management jobs are performend by these "Aliens" (those are the legal ones not the illegal ones). This is not something new this is how America became the greatest country on earth... by stealing the brightest people from their home countries with the lure of the "American Dream."
Ohh and another thing... why should our soldiers be brought back? Aren't they SOLDIERS? Aren't they volunteer soldiers? Is that not part of the risk of being a soldier? We went into THEIR country and wiped out the only regime that kept Iran in check and now you want to let them duke it out for themselves. Uhh do you think they will become a happy society that will want great things for their American brothers or do you think they will support more terrorist attacks like 911?
I will bet you a google adsense penny that they want the latter.
We were dumb... no wait... our leadership was dumb to upset the balance of the middle east, But WE will be extremely dumb if we pull out and leave the mess as is because the terrorists are only going to get stronger. We have no choice but to clean up the mess that we created. And yes our soldiers will have to suffer.
Sorry if I managed to enrage you with my comments but your comments did the same for me.
Marisue--I agree with most of the points your rant is making. I'm no longer a fan of Bush but it was Clinton that pushed NAFTA through and began the whole "World Ecomony" thing that has made it so profitable for businesses to go overseas. Until we give tax breaks to the business that stayed here and penalize the business that went overseas, this inbalance will not start to correct itself.
I don't think we're spoiled here either. I agree that if you work hard you deserve some rewards. Now our "rewards" are slowly being taken away from us with the high costs we're facing in our everyday lives. Will food eventually become one of those "rewards"?
As a whole, we are a wasteful nation partly just because there has always been plenty. I think it's going to be a big shock to the 40's and under generations to have to begin to economize and not have something NOW just because they want it. I'm afraid this trend is also going to result in theft and other crimes going on the rise. All because of the "haves" and the "have nots" theory.
I've been told by people I know in the oil business that there's plenty of oil (and coal) to be had yet in this country but they are being told not to drill and are being paid compensation to let the wells stay silent. Could the big oil companies scheme be to use up the oil in rest of the world and then have the only "game" in town?
Maybe it's time for the new government in the Fall to look into putting a lid on gas prices. Isn't this like extortion since you can't go anywhere else for the product and there's no competition to shop at? I mean if the oil companies keep making such obscene profits what's to stop any of the other big corporations from doing the same thing? Oh, wait!! I think they already are!!
Ruthie,
Unfortunately Bill Clinton's NAFTA is not the source of our problems... rather it is Ronald Reagan's China. NAFTA is going to be the only way that we actually compete with the Europeans and the Asians. In case you have not turned on the news lately, the Europeans are united and China has an economy that surpasses our own.
You can't possibly believe (like Marisue does) that if we close our eyes and our borders to foreign goods that all our problems will go away. We don't make anything in America anymore because we pay too much in insurance, in labor, in lawsuits, and in health care. GM pays the average US auto worker $35-50 grand per year Plus health care, pensions etc. In Canada and Mexico you can pay a lot less for the SAME quality work.
As for the oil companies.... you are right they have made record profits but do you realize how their profits come about? Did you know that they buy their oil from the foreign countries and then they charge a percentage markup. So if a barrel of oil is $10 bucks and they make 10% profit then their profit is $1 dollar. Of course if that same barrel of oil is $100 then 10% of that is $10 dollars. Yes it is still obscene for them to be making that much money, but we the American public elected Bush TWICE despite knowing that he is in bed with these oil companies (and his family personally profits from them).
Also the fact remains that if we were to simply cut down our consumption it would force these oil companies to decrease that percentage of their profits so they could lower the price. Simple supply and demand. Of course everyone loves the feeling of driving an 8 seat SUV just to have the privilage of looking down on people with the "ordinary" cars.
We were once a nation on principles and values... now we are a nation of greed and bling. Young people today would rather spend $50,000 on a car instead of driving a $20000 car with $30000 in the bank. Really a sad statement about our society.
Amen sister! The reaction you've got from this post truly shows how bogus any "polls" are. Americans are mad as hell and I HOPE we aren't gonna take it anymore. But what can we do? No one cares and no one listens. I see fraud corrumption and greed and hubris everywhere. We're headed for a Great Depression style crisis.
Mary, I agree with you and will say it again--A Depression, be it Great or Small, is coming and if you're smart you'll start preparing for it NOW!
Joedoe--Umm, that big box with the glass front and the pretty flowers on top that's sitting in the corner of my family room--sometimes, in between my game shows and my soaps, a man comes on talking about stuff that's going on somewhere else. Is that what you mean about listening to the news?
Of course, I listen and watch the news--several times a day in fact as well as following the economic reports. And I'm not talking just about the local stuff either, smartypants!
China has a super economy according to them. When you've come up from zero a few years back anything's an improvement. And personally, I DO NOT buy anything from China if I can help it. To many of their products are defective, lousy and on the recall lists. Of course, there can't be any whistle blowers over there because if someone tried they'd be taken out the backdoor and disappear for good.
I didn't say to close our borders to foreign goods. But I hate the glaring fact that more and more of the US based companies that provided jobs for our citizens are moving their factories out of here. It makes me so mad to call customer service with a question about a product I've purchased and get hold of someone with an India-type accent so thick you could cut it with a knief, who says her name is Susie. You can't understand half of what is said plus most of the information given to you is wrong. Come on!! This was a minium wage only job when it was here, why ship it overseas except to get away with paying some guy or gal in India or where ever 50¢ a day instead.
I still think that if there was some kind of a tax penalty instead of a tax break for these companies it wouldn't be so profitable for them to take jobs away.
Ok, so Bush was elected twice and he and the Vice-President are both neck deep in oil money, why should that be any reason to stop a ceiling price put on at the pumps? Most everyone is cutting down on consumption of gas (some more than others, I'll grant you) but if you're the only guy in town with the pump full of fuel, you can charge just about anything you want for it and if the other guy wants it, he'll pay what price is asked. I'm not talking about the corner filling station--they're getting to be in just as tight a squeeze as most of the other retail businesses around. This is the positon the major gas companies are in right now and are laughing all the way to the bank!
I do agree with you about the materialism of most of the young of America today. But, if things do get worse, and I think they will soon, these young people will learn quickly about what's really important after losing a few things to the repo-man. Look at the growing amount of foreclosures happening now because people wanted to start at the top instead of working their way up to the top.
I don't want to sound like doom and gloom or the end of the world but I've lived through 2 "recessions" that shook up the economy pretty good plus listened to hundreds of stories from family and friends about the Great Depression and how hard it was to just get by day to day. I just think it's coming again and I hope I'm ready for it.
Ruthie17,
Sorry if I come off as trying to be a "smarty pants" you are older and more experienced than I am so you definitely have more knowledge than me. The thing is that it is so frustrating to live in this country and see our leadership squander away our future for a quick buck (or a so called quick war).
We are a nation of people that love to jump from one bandwagon to another without really thinking or investigating an issue. We want to blame the oil companies for following supply and demand even though we do nothing to curb our demand.
We want to blame the Chinese for selling cheap goods even though we buy them up like crazy.
We blame the Indians for shoddy customer service, even though their call centers have more highly trained and educated people than our own.
We keep blaming EVERYONE else for our problems yet we don't realize that the problem lies with us because we ARE spoiled! We love our consume till you are bankrupt lifestyle, we love our 'ignore the world and focus on Britney' media, we love our divide and lie politics. Where have all the wise leaders and role models gone?
As for China... I hate to say this but the reality is that their economy is MUCH stronger than ours. I am not referring to them improving their economy from zero to nothing... rather I am talking about hard cash... we have a trade deficit to the chinese that is in the trillions!! If you think you can avoid buying things from China then you will have to stop wearing clothes, using electronics, and even wearing shoes becasuse nearly EVERYTHING is now made in China.
Instead of trying to ignore this reality and bury our heads in the sand... we need to accept this fact and find ways to use it to our advantage. Their cheap uneducated labor can be our advantage if we play our cards right.... just like the cheap educated labor in India is helping our companies to stay afloat in the global economy.
Speaking of India and all the folks working the call centers... everyone comes down on them but do we even know the conditions they work in? They work 12 hour shifts in VERY competetive settings where people are willing to stab you in the back just to get ahead. The guy or gal you speak to at the call center is college educated, speaks at least 2 languages and probably does not get to see his or her family that much because he or she is always working. Do we have any folks willing to dedicate themselves in this way for a "minimum wage" job over here? I think not.
Yes they sometimes have thick accents (as do many of our AMERICAN brothers and sisters), yes they sometimes make mistakes (heck I am not too good on my feet after working a 14 hour shift!!). But the fact remains that our companies need to use this resource so they can stay afloat and keep other jobs right here in the US.
The world is a global economy, whether we like it or not, and we need to find ways to work with this system rather than against it.
I think Joedoe is the only one who seems to really know what's going on. The reality isn't pretty but it IS the reality. The global economy is a fact. That shouldn't be a bad thing. NAFTA was a good idea, on paper, we just need to make sure everybody follows the rules. If CHINA sends us a substandard product then the import of that product, and just that product, should be stopped. The loss in revenues will force them to raise their standards.
And Francetales had some interesting comments, as well. We Americans don't see how the rest of the world looks at us. Our media feeds us biased propaganda so we think all the world loves us. They don't. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is. We have the miracle of the internet. Once in a while, check a foreign newspaper. You can usually choose to have them shown in english.
PS: Marisue, you've definitely started something. Great hub!
Wow! I love thinking minds. We did not get to where we are as a country without respecting differences. I would not live as Europeans do, but would like some of their successes. However, living as I do, does not make me spoiled and collectively all Americans should not be classified as spoiled because our suffering is not as bad as those in France, etc.
Just for the record, I have never owned an SUV, have worked 2 jobs for most of my life, and have given many years 20+ to community service. I care. I work, I buy foreign products, and I support foreign trade. None of which should send us to the poor house - as a nation, we have made many greedy mistakes because coroporations have been allowed to get laws passed that steal our future.
I am not an expert in economics but 101 shows that when something is high, you buy less, when somethng is cheap you buy more. However, gas happens to be a necessity, as is food and clothing and shelter. We do not live just to have necessities. Having more than necessary does not make one spoiled. It is our right in this country -- our ancestors and all who work and invent have paid the price for us - to earn and excell.
I appreciate all the thought and feelings you have all posted. THAT is what makes America great. We need to get back to the basics, I agree. That will required sacrifice, I agree. I don't mind sacrificing. I've lived that way most of my life, always having more than some countries across the waters, but not always having what I needed so maybe "spoiled" is relative.
I see anger against us, but I am one. I am one who works and pays my way. I don't want the rich from anywhere taking that away.
Joe Doe, I don't like to be told to cut back when I am mainly only buying what I need. (what trip would I cut out? the one to see the kids? the one to the store? the one to the movie?> Ok that one.) Now, I won't go to the movie, so am I not spoiled? What would, in your eyes, make me not spoiled?
To expect our country to take care of us first is wise. I am not an isolationist, but neither do I think we should open up wide and take everything in because "it's the way of the world."
I'm all for the LEGAL aliens working, paying taxes, becoming a citizen. I have fed aliens, opened my home to their kids in foster care...does that make me unspoiled yet? I have raised children from many other cultures -- in my home -- black, hispanic, asian, to name a few. I think some of our greatest minds have come from other countries -- what is your point? We are a melting pot and that is fine. I don't want our taxes supporting those who come illegally, but I will bypass that discussion. It would never end. LOL
Globalization does not mean we give IN to not protecting our own interests, does it? Of course we share - exports and imports...but at what cost is it too much? There has to be a happy medium. Were the dogs who died, the illnesses all just OK because after all we have to have imports? I just don't know where it ends...
Joe Doe and francetales, what are your solutions. I'm truly interested...
What joedoe, do you give to your nation? I will give you the respect you did not give me..I will assume you give to charities, you give of your time and your heart..I will assume that. I have earned some respect, so do not assume I am living the good life with never a thought or action for another less fortunate than I. You shold always assume that the other person has a back story.
We have corruption in our government. We need to correct it and demand the greedy do not take over by selling us out. Which I'm afraid they have already done to a large extent.
Because our soldiers are volunteer does not mean we should mistreat them. You sound spoiled...it's ok to fight a battle if you are not on the frontline? No one asked for this. When we make a mistake, we should say so and correcti it. Iraq is a big boy. They can do this.
We should fight battles with wisdom. Iraq should pay for this battle. Enough is enough. Mistake or not, the price of us fighting for their country is too high. Not my son, not my daughter. Let's pull back and re-think.
Who made China's economy strong and at what price? Who sold our jobs to India? They do not own the 14 hour shift. My 3 spoiled sons work that everyday at their jobs and they are educated. I have seldom worked less than 12 hours a day, of course it wasn't all in the field cutting broom corn in the heat, so I guess I'm still spoiled. and I was spoiled as I tried to heal the mistakes of many parents who were under such stress iin their own spoiled lives that they abused their kids...their fault again I'm sure.
I really haven't met too many spoiled average Americans in my lifetime JoeDoe, but perhaps I walk a different path.
I do see the rich, everyday and have worked for many of them. Still, who's to say their lifestyle was wrong? giving up a 3rd vacation is a good way to cut back on gas. I have taken 3 vacations in my entire life. and I earned every one of them.
My whole entire point was this: It's really ballsy for those in the ivory towers who own the "farm" to tell others who have put them where they are....to cut back.
end of point.
I love America, am proud of her accomplishments, I just want to heal her rough spots. -
I don't mind your criticism.
because I'm not spoiled, I'm tuff -- I can take it. =) keep thinking and VOTE...
one further point...thank God as a nation America has had more than they needed and were willing to pay high prices so we could save the *ss of France in WWII - and now they so bravely fuss at us... I respect their right and their right to live they way they want....they should us as well...why do we have to be just like them? or India, or China or ?
Because we "have" Many other countries receive our aide. all purchased on the backs of the spoiled. Hey, thank God for the spoiled.
I changed my mind.
I'm spoiled. Spoiled enough to take in foster children for 18 years - at a huge personal cost, but it was my choice; spoiled enough to drive my 18 year old car, spoiled enough to respect other's opinions, spoiled enough to keep thinking that somehow we - Americans - can get out of the mess we've created...from being spoiled.
Spoiled enough to want an extra bean in the pot to feed my neighbor,
spoiled enough to want our medical knowlege to increase so we can find cures for those in other countries as well as our own, spoiled enough to think we can learn from other countries medical system success, and still maintain respect for our free enterprise system, maybe I'm just spoiled enough.
Marisue,
First of all, if I gave the impression that I am personally attacking you then I apologize. You simply went on a soapbox to vent your frustration and I did the same. Your opinions are just as valid as mine and perhaps I can learn something from you just as maybe someone can learn something from me.
The things that you have mentioned do not make you spoiled they make you a good human being. You work hard, you give to charity and the community, and you provide for your family... for these things you should be applauded. These are things that every decent and honest human being in the world tries to strive for.
When I say that we are spoiled it is simply for the fact that our lifestyle has grown so disproportionate to the world reality.
I have been fortunate enough to live in several countries so I have seen how many other cultures and societies live. When someone wants groceries in the Caribbean they walk to the grocery store buy their wares and then walk back. Here we drive one block to buy 1 bag of groceries and hurry back so we can go drive to the gym for our treadmil routine. Does this not seem like excess to you? I am not saying that you personally are guilty of this, but look in any gym and you will see many many people willing to pay $30 a month for the privilege of walking in a room.
As for driving to visit your kids... of course you should visit them. In an ideal society our kids would live near us and help to care for us as we got older (that is another topic for another day). Even if they live far away why can't we use public transportation to visit them? In many countries across the world, people think about using public transportation FIRST and then use their car only if needed. Here we NEVER think of public transportation unless we have no other choice. This will not work for everyone because not all places have public transportation, but it can work in many many cities. Still the fact remains that the best selling automobiles in this country are actually TRUCKS. The rest of the world tries to buy smaller more compact cars and we want larger trucks with bigger engines. Is this not excess?
We have some of the cleanest and safest tap water in the world yet we are the largest consumer of bottled water... is this not excess?
We produce the highest amount of greenhouse gasses yet we are one of the few countries that refuses to sign the Kyoto protocol.
There are so many ways in which we as a nation are spoiled. A spoiled rich kid living in a mansion driving his or her Bently never realizes that he is spoiled. He simply thinks he is entitled to his way of living. If you ask him to waste a little less or drive a smaller (cheaper) car his response is gonna be why should I? That is the response that you seem to be giving in your hub.
If you go and see how the rest of the world lives and survives you will realize that we really are indeed a nation of spoiled individuals rotting in our excess.
Marisue,
As for the comments on Aliens. I tried to find your exact quote from your article but I could not do so. Not sure what you meant by it, perhaps it was my misunderstanding, but it seemed to imply that we need to stop all of the Aliens from coming in and taking our jobs.
You have stated that you have no problem with legal immigrants (Alien is a very derogatory term if you really think about it) so I wont go into that.
As for illegal immigrants... yes we do need to strengthen our borders because there are groups trying to penetrate our country and do evil. As for the rest of the illegal immigrants, we honestly do need them here. I live here in California and I know firsthand that no one would be willing to work on a hot sunny day in a field for $2-4 an hour. Yes if we stop illegal immigrants from coming in the first place then the amount paid for labor will go up... probably to the minimum wage of $8 but who do you think is going to pay the cost of that increase? If the labor cost of picking fruit goes up 4X guess what... the cost of that orange is going to go from $1 to $4 dollars!! The meat that you eat will also increase in price because many if not most of the workers int he slaughterhouses are illegal.
Illegal immigration is nothing new... it has been the source of our cheap back breaking labor for decades. What is new is the hate for these people. There is a very interesting article on how these illegal immigrants arrive to the US. It was in National Geographic a few months ago, very short and enlightening should you choose to read it.
If we really want to compete with China and the rest of Asia (and even Europe for that matter) then we ought to start finding ways to utilize cheap labor right across our borders. This will lead to our entire continent being stronger and more wealthy... this is what NAFTA was supposed to do, unfortunatley all of the bad press and bad thoughts make it more wise for companies to invest in other continents instead of our own!
Joe doe thank you for responding. On many things we are on the same page. I do not think the world is a model for us to follow regarding our lifestyle, but I do agree we are wasteful...I would make many other decisions about how we use our productivity if it were up to me. tobacco for medicinal purposes, crops for feeding the hungry instead of beer -- many things I would change.
Alien is a derogatory term I agree and I used it for emphasis, I prefer illegal immigrant. Makes sense.
I enjoy your prespective - no harm done. Keep writing and thinking - I'm learning too. I don't have all the answers, We have been wasteful. I do not agree that our basic lifestyle is wrong. We have more, because we produce more. Other countries governments hoard, keeping the good from their producers and workers, even more than we do. They tax ever so much higher, as in France, and that helps pay for their medical system. Perhaps we are moving in that direction.
Still, we need to perserve our way of life as we are the hand that feeds. could we do more? Yes. and we must!
Again, I am not angry, and appreciate your reading and responding!!! Thank you all for reading, thinking and commenting....it is GREAT.
I have seen people of the kind you describe, who don't think they're spoiled while eating their steaks. But, that does not mean, logically speaking that all people who eat steaks are spoiled.
i.e. all blondes wear red dresses. Susie wears a red dress. Is she a blonde?
No. not necessarily. that is not good logic. So, we should not assume too much. Let's eliminate waste, but not take away all that we have - just so it's not wasted.
anyway, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
=)
Don't forget!!!America is made up from all countrys in the world.Not just the United States of America.The U>S>gave away their economy to other countrys because they won't do the dirty jobs
Q: How do you know when you come across good writing? A: It invokes emotion and inspires dialogue. Good job Marisue!
That being said, I once again have to agree with Joedoe. We, as a nation, are incredibly wasteful. One pitiful thing going on here, in Oregon, is the increasing sale and use of those little motorized chairs, and it's not by the elderly or infirmed. It is the grossly obese. People whom have eaten themselves into such a state that they can no longer walk, or work. This is over-consumption at it's very worst. Is this a problem in any other counrty?
constant - you are my hero. You are right!! we are all thinking and there's nothing wrong with that, that is how solutions come about.
I too, have seen much waste....no one can argue that fact, I don't think. To me, tho, there is danger in governments regulation excess in individuals, tho it might be necessary to protect against monopolies in businesses...again to protect the individual. that is what sets us apart from other countries...the right of the individual, to suceed, to fail, even to waste. We should stop waste from the shame of our fellowman and the love of our country and world. I don't want to give up freedom to avoid waste...we should do it because it's right. as an individual desire supported by a government who sets a good example and then gets out of our way. kind of like a good parent.
I have seen the obese buzzin' thru the aisles of stores....in their four wheelers and have almost been run over by their "get out of my way" attitude. Still, I have two legs, the world is mine.
We need to be humble enough to give and change for the better, not punish the "walker" for walking when the cripple can not. Because we have, does not make us evil. If we did not give to those who "have not." That would tell a different story.
Man we are all on a roll...now if we could just come up with a solution. Any takers?
Qustion: If you could change the world, what would you do? 3 - 5 points. I'll start: I would take out the anger in the Middle East. What would be the spin offs from that? hmmm
The answer is always dialogue... just like we're doing right now.
Yep! =)
Removing the anger in the Middle East would be a wonderful thing, I agree.
But along with this would have to be the removal of the idea of religious superiority by all peoples in the world. The idea that "my religion is the only right religion and if you don't believe in my God you are less than the pebbles under my feet" has caused so much suffering and death throughout the history of the world that it can just make a person want to weep.
When the peoples of the world can finally accept the many religions others have as their right to name their own God and choose how to worship him, there will always be wars and conflicts. Until the peoples of the world can not get all self-rightous and mean about religion and try to force "the one true relegion" down others throats because of differing beliefs, then perhaps we can move on to the other problems we face as a world like hunger, sickness, child abuse, the economy and so on. All things that need to be worked on and fixed.
Ran across this quote and thought it would fit well with this thread-
"It is easier to fight for principles than to live up to them."
I just have to comment on what JoeDoe said about us "needing" immigrants here to do jobs that we aren't willing to do. First of all, I believe that our dependency on these immigrants can be broken if we would get the prisoners out of the t.v. rooms, off the ball courts and into the work force as it used to be.
I came to believe when I was growing up that when you broke the law you gave up your rights. However, every time you turn on the t.v., there are prisoners suing for inhumane treatment. They are the ones who have broken the law, yet they sit around all day watching t.v., reading, playing games and such while we are working 12 to 16 hours a day, paying for all that they eat and have.
If they were put back to work like prisoners used to be and actually made to pay their debt to society, our need for the immigrants would deminish and probably would even see a decrease in the crime rate.
Like everyone else, I am frustrated and don't have the answers. But I also agree with Mariesue. Just because we have and other countries don't does not mean that we are spoiled and should cut back. If we work for what we have, it is a right that we have earned. That's just my 2 cents.
Bonnie
Marisue,
You have some good points and yes we do agree on many issues. We are all Americans and we all want what is best for this country. Although we may disagree with some of the methods and means, at least most of us can agree that it will start by removing leadership like G.W. Bush and company.
It really pisses me off so much about the billions we have squandered in Iraq simply because of the whim and errors of GW. I hope we all learn from our mistakes and never again elect a guy based on fear tacticts and smear campaigns... election is coming up so I guess we will soon find out!!!
Ruthie17,
You hit the nail right on the head! This feeling of religious superiority is what is causing much of the strife in the world today. The sad thing of it all is that many of the religions of the world have come to respect and coexist with other religions... with one exception... Islam.
The Muslims of the world really have a lot of thinking and reformation to do because their religion is based on the notion of superiorty and domination. Sorry I don't want to sound like an Islamophobe but if you really look into the religion and the teachings of their religious leaders you will see that the world is going to face a pretty big struggle if the Muslims of the world do not decide abandon and disavow some of the more violent and fundamentalist teachings in the Koran.
Sorry, I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I just wanted to commend and expand up on Ruthie's insightful comment.
Bonnie-Ramsey,
I totally agree with you that we ought to make Prison more of a prison and less of a boarding school. The rights we give to some of these prisoners is absolutely insane but believe me that is changing (at least in some states). Arizona is extremely hard on prisoners and often requires them to work in the desert heat. Of course we get the people whining about violating their rights but at least there are some people out there that realize we need to make a prison sentence a miserable experience if we want to prevent repeat crime.
As for getting the prisoners to do the jobs that illegals immigrants do... sorry but that is impossible. Illegals work on private farms and frankly I don't trust a prisoner handling my fruits and vegetables.
Illegals also work in slaughterhouses... do you really want to see how a cruel a prisoner can get when he is given the job of killing a creature? Don't know about you, but I would not want that person let back onto the streets once he has become even more desensitized to killing.
As for the odd construction and gardening jobs that illegals do.... ahh do you really want a felon to help build your house especially considering that he is being forced to do it?
The only jobs that prisoners are good for are the freeway cleanup and rock removal jobs which are already in place. If you have any others in mind I would love to hear them.
Ruthie made an excellent point. Religion has been at the root of the most horrendous acts perpetrated by by man against his fellow man, all throughout history and right up to present day.
"Imagine... no religion, too." That would be a more peaceful and intelligent society.
This hub has gotten 150 page views the highest yet for me!! You guys are all making valid points. Killing for religion sake is not what any God I know had in mind. Conversion, yes. From the heart, not the gun.
We've got to change the way we elect our officials as well, this system has major problems. From hanging chads to computer viruses, to super delegates, it's all a mess.
I envision a society that includes all views, even the absence of faith; it's all allowed with freedom. As long as they are not intruding on the freedom of others, there's room for all beliefs. My dad used to say "Your freedom ends, where my nose begins." That was a favored saying in the 60's.
I agree that prison should not be a picnic or vacation. check out this prison in Arizona http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/ don't you love their uniforms. I think this guy has the right idea.
these people are in the pink: http://isaacs.newsvine.com/_news/2008/01/05/120589
http://www.thestate.com/154/story/333659.html also in the pink
Ok, so we're changing the world by taking the hate out of the middle east;
the "my way" religion dominance out of all society -- what other changes would you make in the world?
Continue with, and incourage more programs like student exchange. The best way to vanquish misconceptions is to spend time with the people you're "afraid" of or dislike. I think it's one of the smartest things the world does.
I do too Constant! One of my ambiltions when I was a teen, was to be an Ambassador. It is a regret...that I never pursued it. Life got in the way, long story-we-all-have-them thing.
I like to think I would have had a measure of success, I respect diferences and love people and learning about their beliefs and cultures, and sometimes I'm pretty persuasive and always patient. Wait a minute, I'm hired! LOL
I could be another Jolee...without the looks. LOL o well, =)
Ambassador would be a very difficult job. Always trying to see the perspectives of others and never being able to express your own. Sounds frustrating. Doesn't sound like what little I've learned about you.
Are you saying I'm opinionated. LOLOLOL
Well, maybe the world is better off I didn't do the Ambassador thing. Don't need another war. LOL
From what I've read, I think you do TREMENDOUS good right where you're at. Opinionated is a strong word... I definitely agree with it, but still a strong word ;)
The world IS better off because of where you already are.
Thank you for the kind words. I'll take opinionated. LOL If ya talk the talk, ya gotta walk the walk; You made my day, !!! we all just gotta keep on keepin' on!
Readers! Check out this hubbers info on gas and problems and solutions!! very informative: http://hubpages.com/hub/Burning-Money-The-Oil-Cris
a great read.
BRILLIANT!!! ;-)
--Mary K
I wish you would send this hub to Congress - no wait, let us all sign it first.
Smack-a-vision, I think you have an idea for a new button on the remote, great idea and what a frustration squelcher.
Marisue, has this hub reached a thousand readers yet? Kidding... I think. Wow!
Karen, if we send this hub to congress no one will ever see it again. And cue "X Files" music... now!
Mary K thanks!!! and it could not have been so brilliant without all these great thinkers commenting their fury as well. One thing about it, these last 8 years or so has awakened the tiger in us all. We all see waste, mismanagement, corruption, greed, living beyond the means, and so much loss of life and reason.
I am so grateful for you all for reading and commenting.
Constant, this HUB has 221 page views so far, My own HUB total is 2000+ I'm so amazed!!
Karen, you are right, it wouldn't hurt to send it to our reps, course I'd need everyone's permission....that's a good thought!!
I shake your hands...all of you I salute!! =)
Too bad I couldn't figure out how to track my comments until now, I would have chimed in at more opportune times. Sorry if I don't go back so diligently and quote perfectly but I stirred a little up so I should at least comment a little.
@marisue
"However, living as I do, does not make me spoiled and collectively all Americans should not be classified as spoiled because our suffering is not as bad as those in France, etc"
What on earth do you mean by this? How do you imagine life in Europe here to be that radically different from your life? I am not being facetious. I am very curious to hear your misconceptions about life over here. If you had said India or even China I might think you had a point, there is a much greater difference in culture and lifestyle there, but Europe, come one. Have you been?
That is another thing, Americans tend to have such strong views about places they have never visited and really don't know anything about. That is what people mean when they think Americans are arrogant. Maybe you are and maybe you aren't, it's not for me to judge, but if you are not please don't take your self as the example. There are thousands of ignorant Americans, if you want to blame someone for the reputation, start with them. It might not be you but, really, who cares, that doesn't change that there are thousands of 'em. The world didn't just make this up, and for some strange reason it stuck. It stuck because there is more than just grain of truth to it. The world is not a hater.
People here in Europe aren't skeptical of Americans because Americans "have" and they "don't". Only Americans tend to be that simple minded. People don't hate you because they are jealous. That just doesn't make any sense. What do you imagine that Americans have that we in Europe don't?
"God Bless the USA" - as you said, religious or not, what a ridiculous statement, what about the rest of the world, they don't count, arrogance rears its ugly head.
I'm sorry I just took a closer look and joe doe hit all the nails on the head for me. I'm going to give up this reply except for one thing.
One of the economies in Europe that is not doing well is France's. Once of the biggest problems it has is its protectionist attitude and tariffs. This drives the prices for things up. This is a big reason why the US should not ban or overtax imports. It will drive prices up. If you think it is expensive now, you wouldn't believe how expensive it will get when your goods are no longer produced in Indonesia. Those cherries will triple, those potatoes will quadruple, etc. How can you not see this?
A recent example in France was that it imported a lot of its beef from Brazil. The Brazilian beef was much cheaper. If you cannot imagine why I will tell you the Brazilians get paid less, work longer hours, have less or no healthcare, etc. So their products can be cheaper, at least in France. The small local French farmers started to complain and pressure the government to make a change. The government put higher tariffs on foreign beef and the prices went up. Well they went up beyond the prices of the French beef producers. Great you might say, now the French farmers can sell more, let's protect our own, but then the French producers raised their prices too. Not matching the Brazilian beef but just below it. Now everyone pays more. YOU CANNOT PROTECT PRICES, external price controls do not work.
I forget the percentage exactly but a product can be marked "made in the USA" if only a certain percentage of it is actually made there, many of the parts can be made elsewhere too. You have this fantasy of what "made in the US" means. Ford, "made in the US", think again!
Anyway, I enjoy arguing and debating so I don't take things personally and I hope you haven't been too offended. The idea of hegemony is that an idea has so infiltrated reality that you no longer recognize it as an idea, but you mistake it for reality. This describes many of your ideas about the world and many American attitudes. That is what much of the world reacts negatively to.
One final thing, Americans are the only ones who actually believe your story about the US coming in and saving the day in WWII. It was far more complicated than that. Another example of hegemony, I bet it would blow your mind to learn the wide variety of views of it and how it is taught in history classes around the world, it certainly doesn't resemble the fairy tale version you subscribe to. And I studied history at one of the finest universities in the US, Berkeley, home of Hub Pages, and taught for 10 years, so I do know a thing or two about it.
Well francetales whew! That was a lot of angry feelings from you. I'm curious as to why all that America does matters so much to you? I think much of what you said about us, should be applied to you as well. Where do you think your attitude about America comes from? Take us out of the world equation and see what shape the world would be in. I am not against France, why do you hold such attitude about America? I am not an expert on France, but I believe what mostly sets us apart is "opportunity."
In our system, we have the opportunity to be arrogant. Sad, but that is what freedom allows. We also have the opportunity to excell in business and fail. And we do a lot of both. We have the opportunity for corruption, and to give with great humility. And, we do both.
I think it is very arrogant of France or any other country to lump us into a certain category and for it to be negative, I think it's wrong. If you and I were to have dinner, surely we could sit across the table, and find many things common and pleasant. Why should you and I be disagreeable, over what our country has or has not done?
If you like your life in France. I say Viva La France. Good for you. But, do not be so arrogant as to think that all of us are spoiled, lazy, living in luxury, or agree with all that our country has done. But it is my country, right or wrong. And, we are the hand that feeds large sections of the world.
Let us build on common ground, let us build on success.
Perphaps you have good facts about WWII that I do not have. I just think that France is quick to argue with us over things they are not willing to "stick their neck out on..." as most of the world expects us to do. It is like a spoiled child asking a parent to give give give, and then griping when the result was not what they wanted.
Here's a story that illustrates my point and maybe you will have a chuckle: My brother, when he was 4 years old, went to the store with our mom. He kept asking her for a dollar. Finally, she gave in and gave it to him. When he later lost it she scolded him He replied "Well, you just shouldn't have given it to me!"
What I'm trying to say is...most countries ask of us to have this foreign policy, or that; while they are not contributing much at all to the cause that they criticize. And, then, if it turns out badly...they blame us anyway.
I wish the world felt good about America. We are full of caring and giving people. Yet, I'm' not thinking that just because they criticize, we should change.
Thank God we have more than we need so that we don't have to ride our bikes to the airport, loaded with our gift that goes overseas to help so many...
The reason I said French were suffering is because you sounded so bitter about us living to excess that I thought perhaps you were living without things you needed and speaking of the French in general living in that condition. I assumed it due to the tone of your complaint. Again, I repeat, having "more" is not necessarily "too much." If we did not have, then we could not give.
I'm sure you have people in France who are generous? who give to others? Thank goodness they have "more."
I should have said...God Bless the World. God Bless the USA is a phrase in a song we value here, kind of like an anthem...and that is all that was meant by that. I wish you well in your journey of disliking Americans and our government - I hope you will realize your time would be better spent discovering solutions to so many of our problems - then you could share those solutions with us.
Let us not argue, but solve problems and think of them with respect for our differences. That is all they are: different.
I have not traveled to Europe, nor do I think all who criticze us from there have traveled here and spoken to us. I am available and I bet they would like me, as I would them! =)
Excellent reply, Marisue. Clearly Francetales is angry, but your responses were awesomely diplomatic ...you frustrated Ambassador, you. Some of his points are valid - I've read a little about the lies we've (Americans) been fed in school regarding history and the truth is jaw-dropping. On that point he's absolutely right and most of us are clueless about it. I don't know why we aren't taught the truth, wish I did.
Francetales; don't hate us because we're ignorant. You have here an excellent opportunity to open some eyes, expand some perspectives. But, no one will listen to you if you're insulting them. Don't just TELL us how wrong our take on WW2 is, do some research and include a link to documentation. We may be ignorant, and yes arrogant, but we're also open-minded and we love to learn.
Better yet, Francetales, do some hubs about that very subject.
Yes! We extend an olive branch of friendship, and understanding. Or at least the desire to understand. Surely you believe there are good qualities about America. We, the people are a good place to start. I expect your next hub to educate us more! =)
And to prove my support, Francetales, I'm hoinh to join your fan club so I'll be informed when the hub is published... provided you agree to write it (them?).
Any other 'arrogant Americans' want to do the same?
its a done deal...for me a few days ago...just to show my undying support for the French. (teasing francetales...have a laugh.)
but i'm wondering...the score on this hub was 83 and now 77 what effects that? I'm not sure how the scores work here...they seem to go up and down on some of the hubs.
this has gotten huge page views and it keeps growing. yeaaaaaaa readers!
Well somewhere, maybe buried in my rant, was the statement to the effect that I like to argue. You couldn't be more wrong about being angry. I'm not angry and I don't hate America. I"m not French either. I'm an American. That doesn't mean I'm going to "stand up for America". I don't belong to gangs. That kind of mentality is for gangbangers.
My attitude about America comes from living in the US for 36 years, not the TV or the news. It also comes from having been a teacher there for 10 years. I worked hard as a teacher and loved doing it. I worked in public schools in Oakland, CA and Philadelphia, PA, in very poor conditions, with very difficult students, etc. I think it says something about the real values of a country when their very poorest citizens have ****oh never mind
I did not claim all Americans were arrogant. I claimed that there were some very real attitudes that Americans have that other countries perceive as arrogant. I also claimed that many Americans can't see this due to the hegemonic nature of the attitude. I'm sorry I cannot use a less "intellectual" word than hegemonic. Due to this blindness Americans often falsely perceive why many countries hold the attitudes they hold. Instead of examining themselves, Americans tend to come up with simplified answers, they hate our freedoms, they "don't have" and they are jealous, etc.
"In our system, we have the opportunity to be arrogant. Sad, but that is what freedom allows. We also have the opportunity to excell in business and fail. And we do a lot of both. We have the opportunity for corruption, and to give with great humility. And, we do both."
Do you think in Europe we don't have these same opportunities, exactly the same ones. There are not a whole lot of third world countries here in Europe. In fact we are much older than you as countries go. Those opportunities translate into different things here though. What European country doesn't have "freedom" as you say? Here it translates less into me me me and more into humility. Sure there are arrogant Europeans, but it doesn't stem directly from the culture and lifestyle.
You have had cheap gas for a long time, artificially cheap. You got used to it. Now that prices are going up and can't be stopped you complain vociferously about it. How is that different from the child whose parents both work, child gets every last electronic gadget they want, then one parent loses their job and the kid can no longer have these things, and they complain vociferously. We would call the child spoiled. What would you call the country who was guilty of the same thing?
Trust me I am not happy about the price of gas, it costs me about $115/75€ to fill my tank here in France. I have a small 2 door hatchback car. I only drive the car one or twice per week. That is the difference here. There is a great subway system, good buses that EVERYONE uses, a tramway to take people to the airport, free shuttle buses for getting around downtown, etc. You make your example of riding a bike which thinly veils your contempt but I see older French women everyday riding their bicycles to work, in business suits or dresses, going home with packages tied to the rack on the back, etc. Why are you above that? I know not everyone can ride a bicycle and as people age they want and need more convenience. You have options to the car, you just don't like them, you have gotten so used to using a car for everything that the very idea that it is not the only way to get around is hard for you to imagine. Hegemony.
In Europe in general they have chosen to subsisdize the public transportation systems rather than road building and gas. For me I can buy an unlimited use monthly pass which entitles me to use the subway, buses, airport tram, trains within my region, and the bicycle rental program run by the city all for just 30€ a month or about $45. Public transportation is clean, fast, efficient, runs often, and is not considered "just for the poor". It is so much cheaper to take public transportation here. Using a car is so much more expensive so it is seen as a luxury. How many Americans view using a car as a luxury? Hegemony.
It's exactly the opposite in the US. What are the negative effects of this? Well upwardly mobile Americans tend to move out towards the suburbs thereby making the car absolutely essential. When gas was cheap they could afford to do this but with the uncertainty of cheap gas in the future many are stuck or will be soon. The ghettos in France are in the suburbs. People try to live as close to the center of cities as possible, the farther out you go the less desireable it is because it is harder to get to the work in the center of the city.
Americans have homes much larger than they need. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Moms/story?id=1445039 When natural gas was cheap, artificially cheap, it was okay but what were those heating bills like last winter? Yikes, I know. I also know because the last place I lived was in Philadelphia and for 2 people we had a 2400 square foot home, I am disgusted by this but hey I'm telling you because I am not above this. I was raised in the US and you cannot just wipe your hands of your upbringing. Here in France we have an apt of 80 square meters. I wish it were a ittle bigger but not much. It offers the amount of space we really need and means it is easier to clean, keep beautiful, and maintain.
I could go on and on but I know we are not really communicating anymore. Understand I am not angry and I don't hate America. Those ideas only serve to soothe you when wondering why people have the attitudes they do. Try examining in depth and facing reality a little more squarely in the eye. In France they don't sit around cafes, smoking cigarettes, drinking red wine, and criticizing America in between bites of baguette. They sit around cafes, smoking cigarettes, drinking red wine, and criticize France in between bites of baguette. The French criticize France 10 times more mercilessly than any other country. I never understood why Americans had such a hard time with self criticism.
In the last French presidential election 84% of the French voted. When was the last time that many people voted in the US?
I like heathy discussions and I liked the opportunity to think and respond. I think art that strikes a nerve is the best kind, whether you agree with it or not.
Oh I give up.
WONDERFUL HUB and GREAT COMMENTS! I love it when we write from our heart and stop with the being nice and trying to tip toe around a subject!
Please Francetales, don't give up. This discussion has been wonderful. If certain things have been perceived as 'angry' it's because they've been written that way. A lot of what you have said is the absolute truth and many of us know that. Others were generalizations. It would appear we are ALL guilty of that.
I know that a lot of hubbers would be very interested in reading a hub, or hubs, about lies we're taught in school. Please consider writing them. You have an excellent opportunity here... and an eager audience. When was the last time you could say that?
francetales, I haven't read all your reply yet, but I was stopped by the apology that you couldn't use a less intellectual word than "hegemonic." Stop right there.
I'm educated. I have a degree, you probably have several. Do not talk down to me. I can use a dictionary and I don't feel stupid if I have to look up a word. So go ahead, fire away at all the long syllable words or those "intellectual" ones, that you want to use....I'll bear the burden of the heavy books and look them up. Thank you very much.
Now I'll go on and read the rest.
In a free society, the governmenet does not govern how people spend their money.
Morally speaking, we can judge. That's freedom.
Some choose to spend it lavishly and I may disagree but it is within their right to do so and to change that, would not give us freedoms that are necessary for other productivity.
Ok, I go now to read the rest.
Before I go on and read the rest, let me say that I do respect your view and opinion, you are not an outcast here. I think we can disagree without being disagreeable, and we should. We might both even learn something valuable. NOW I go to read.
I'm going to comment as I see things, otherwise the length of the read and commenting is not practical.
by the way, we're at 326 page views so far!! awesome.
Now, next comment from me: I disagree that Europeans are not arrogant from their culture and lifestyle. Understandably, I've not met many. However, and this is only a mild example, I used to be in drama, community theater, you name it. And, we would do many British Plays, unfortunately the name of them escapes me, but none were without the "pompous" attitudes that actually made the humor. Through this drama, their culture was emphasized and a dynamic of that was the arrogance of the British in thinking they were always right, the best, etc.
If that is not common to the people, than I am wrong. But I have heard many speak, and I have always come away with the thought "Hm, they definitely have an "air." about them. However, even if I'm wrong, then you have pointed out a common thread among us. We have arrogance, they have arrogance. I don't think our average American is very arrogant as they are too busy putting food on the table. Where we disagree is this, I think: We have an underlying belief that "more" is an entitlement to our citizenship. In otherwords, we can achieve "more" in our life due to the opportunity for the individual to succeed in business. Increasing the size of his living - Again, I don't believe it's wrong to "increase." Waste? Yes, and therein lies the debate.
I'll read further.
I can now see that your definition of spoiled might have a common link to mine. (The child who had everything given to them, could be called spoiled.) However, the parent worked for those items, so buying them may not be wise, but it wasn't spoiled. The child may now have to learn a different way of living, as we might as well, with higher gas. But, should we ridicule the child? Or should we take a wise look at the actual problem, which is the price of gas and how it came to be.
I'd like an education about that. I think you and I agree that corporations have been given a huge pass that leads to unfair and high earnings for the few, on the backs of the laborers. I don't think that's a new problem, but it has grown to gigantic proportions.
By having "more" choices readily available to the employed, we have indulged ourselves, unwisely. We have not seen that there might be an end to quantity. Now we may. Is that our price for working hard and achieving? Should we ignore the coruption of others that brought the high prices to such records? I don't think everything is the fault of the consumer.
We do have power and we need to use it and in that way, consuming less is wise. I think complaining about the sacrifice is natural, not a reflection of being spoiled. Maybe we are arguing semantics.
I'll read further.
I don't hold contempt for the bike rider. I do say it's not very practical in many ways if that were our only mode of individual transportation to and from work, many companies would not thrive as they do. You have a different lifestyle, not better. I resent the implication that we should change because the French ride bikes to work. It would impact our society gravely if individuals rode bikes to work. Let me count the ways, another time. Again, francetales, you infer with sarcasm that I (as an American) think I'm too good for things. We have choices here that we enjoy. I think we've earned those choices -- from many generations producing. The "bigger, better" thinking took us to outer space. It brought about medical breakthroughs. The average citizen can live well. Can own a car. Can drive to work. You resent our cheaper prices, why is the issue. You have proven your resentment, but you have not justified the reason for us to change our daily life. I'm not saying it's ok to live in excess and waste food, energy, etc.
We can and should make those changes. I hope it doesn't include me riding a bike as I would not feel safe, comfortable, and my knees couldn't take it. Spoiled? No, just used to a different way of life. I'm grateful for it. I don't want to be the lady on the bike by force. By choice, it might be a good thing at least some of the time.
I'll read on.
Our ability to have hegemony is what - tho' you criticize us - has made us a strong country. We are a nation full of control (hegemony), dominion (hegemony) over our own lifes to a large extent. Our hegemony, (dominion) ends, where your nose begins. Evolving situations may change that hegemony to a degree, but to what degree is healthy? for Us, for a nation?
I'll not comment about the rest and the readers may grow weary, but don't give up francetales.
We may not agree. But you are important and so am I. In America, we can agree to disagree. And still be - if not friends, - than at least friendly. =)
I'm sure you are the same in Europe regarding disagreements.
As Celtic Woman say in their song "The Voice" -- we are the voice of the future...we are the voice of your pain.
We all must keep speaking. To speak is not to be enemies, but to find connections.
a peaceful sound and good hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Celtic-Women?comment=28104 ahhh the sound of beauty.
Hegemony is the basis for brainwashing, if that's the kind of foundation you want a country to be built on, great, but I am not interested. There is really nothing good about hegemony, it is pure manipulation.
BTW, a couple of my hubs were funny criticisms of the French so don't turn this into some French American squabble. Stop simplifying.
The French aren't the only one to ride bikes to work. The Dutch, the Vietnamese, and lots more countries are known for their biking to work. Yes Americans think they are above it. I rode my bicycle to work for over 5 years and most of my students and colleagues acted as if I was doin something so strange. They constantly made comments about can't you afford a car, yes, would you like me to pick you up on the way, no, you took the bus when it snowed why, ummm.
My point was that you have choices, stop acting like you don't have any. I just came back from the gym, I saw 60-70 year old women riding bikes around. I know it isn't practical for everyone but stop acting like a lady of a certain age couldn't possibly ride a bike</gasp>
That is precisely why many people, please don't bring up the French again because it is a lot more countries than that, think Americans are spoiled. You are completely unwilling to even imagine that there might be some validity to the point.
I was saying "intellectual" not even thinking of you, don't be so defensive. It was a general response. It is a complex idea that clearly you have NO understanding of if you think it is good. Hegemony is tunnel vision. Hegemony is obscuring reality to fit a narrow agenda. Are these really the kinds of things America is built on? As critical as I can be, not just of America by the way, I would never say that America was built on Hegemony. What is the proof?
I may take up the challenge to write a Hub but maybe it would be a list of essential readin for people who have already written what is being requested. That way I can make some more Amazon money, sorry, I also do this for a little money too.
Well maybe it is my ignorance, but I applied the definition to the individuals ability to be in control and have dominion over their own life. For a government to control the lives of others is wrong so we are, again, in agreement. I think we are on much common ground for less government control, not more. But again, if we are to "control" the spending of others, I don't approve of that. It's not the government's place.
Still, franctales, as hard as I strive for common links - you seem to cling to a bitterness that I don't understand. When you are taking things I've said, and quoting them back to me, and then using a word that you explain is difficult to substitute with a less intellectual word, I think it is you who seems to be demonstrating a bit of a snobbish personality.
To assume that your audience here cannot understand the word is putting yourself above others, that which you have accused me of doing and I think most would say I have not done.
However, we are all open to you defining a word that you use. Like many words, they can be used in different ways and have different outcomes. I don't think individual hegemony over ones own life is bad. That was what I am referring to, but perhaps I still don't uderstand the word. Does it only apply to techniques used by those intending to brainwash or persuade? We are both trying to persuade, without being hegemonic, yes?
I have enjoyed all the comments. We all have a soap box don't we? and a speech to go with it. And the great thing is, we live in a country that allows us to climb on top of that soap box and have our say.
I love America, but she is not perfect...never has been and never will be, because americans are not perfect. There are no perfect countries, no perfect governments, no perfect citizens.
The condition of our life as a society today, is the result of past decisions, actions, sacrifices, and ideology. The condition of our life as a society tomorrow will be determined by the choices we make today. We can only hope and assume that our choices will be bring positive results.
The god-awfull truth is, societies exist within a balance of power and greed. We all live on a little blue ball inhabited by humans, and humans by nature are self-centered, and self-motivated. Human nature dictates that we strive for control and comfort - even in excess. If it is availabe and accessable we will strive to have it. That dosen't necessarily make us bad, but when we begin to think that we are entitled to these things, at the expense of our fellow man/woman, then we shift from a position of power ( ability to accomplish) to greed ( excessive desire). The two combined can devastate a scociety.
Are we spoiled as a nation? I believe we are. Not because we have too much, but because we expect to have too much. It isn't about having... it's about attitude.
Somewhere along the way we became entitled. All of us - rich and poor alike. If I work I should be able to have what I want. If I don't work I should still be able to have what I want. We have become an excessive society expecting to have, not some of the pie, but all of the pie. We are excessive in money, posessions, pleasure, because we have a right to be so. Sometimes I think that this is no longer the country of the "we," but has become the country of the "me."
The world is changing...it is getting smaller. Technology and economy has connected every country, every culture, every race together in such a way that we are co-dependent. What affects one affects the other. The mistake made by one becomes the consequences of the other. We can't say, "well, it's their problem not ours," because our neighbors sewage problem soon bubbles up in our own back yard. We can't shut our doors and windows to the world and think that we will be safe; because, within this social grid of humanity there are those who hate, who fear, who thirst for power, who want it all, and they live next door.
We are not a separate country anymore. We have intergrated ourselves with the rest of the world. Now that we have in
Minnie's Mom says:
3 months ago
Where can I get smack-o-vision. You nailed it on the head. I certainly don't need a cup of coffee this morning, this woke me up quicker than java.