Why I Can't Name My Daughter Siobhan and Other Baby Naming Disasters
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Let's Start with Siobhan
Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start...
Julie Andrews seems to have an answer for everything. And I guess I have a thing for the wisdom of Julie Andrews. Just read my other hubs. We've already established I ain't no Mary Poppins.
But what I AM is pregnant. And the clock is ticking. Only two months or so to go, and we don't have a name yet for little baby what's-her-name.
What's in a name? Everything! A child's name is either a blessing or a curse. A good name can be a gift we give our beloved child. A bad name? Well, it can be a sore point with that child that eternally bruises her ego and sends her into conniptions, scarring her for life.
So what's wrong with Siobhan ? It's pronounced ShiVON. Hard of hearing grandma or grandpa? All of a sudden she's a dessert. A lovely chiffon. And don't expect anyone to know how to pronounce it. Kindergarten? Yikes! Nyet. Next!
My husband and I just don't seem to see eye-to-eye on the baby naming issue. After two kids with unconventional names, I am ready to settle into more traditional territory. Katey or Katherine sounds nice to me.
But my husband is attracted to strong female names, just as he is attracted to strong-willed female me. Katherine is strong. Taming of the Shrew, by Shakespeare, anyone?
First he suggested Sloan. Anyone here besides me seen Ferris Bueller? Can't shake the image. And it isn't necessarily a pretty one. I kept wandering around the house for days singing "Cameron was a wandering man...let my Cameron go!" Nyet. Next!
The next name he suggested was Dagny. My husband kindly related his source, a strong and idealistic character in that famous book by Ayn Rand. But immediately I remembered that my husband's brother named his sweet little college car after that same character.
So!? My husband replied.
So!! I reminded him of OUR named cars (it's a family thing, I guess), and said, how would you like it if your brother called you up and said, "Wow, I just loved that old car Courtney that you once owned that is now in the junk heap, and I've decided to name my first-born after her!" My apologies to anyone out there who has named their child Courtney. It really is a lovely name. But in our family, the name has already been taken...by a car.
Personal associations become more pronounced over time, which is one of the reasons I feel I'm having a tough time selecting a name I like. I'm older now, and have been through many years of school with my other children. And they have many, many classmates that conjure strong associations with the names I like. Some good, and some not-so-great.
I hear school teachers have the greatest problem with this. One teacher I know had encountered so many children that she just had to lay all of her preconceptions aside and choose a name she liked. She had known so many horrid people over the years that almost all the good names were nixed by association. The names she chose for her children were in spite of the personal associations she had formed.
But I am still having a hard time getting over the "name-your-child-after-the-family-car episode."
And speaking of associations, every so often my husband says, "What about Trish or Twila? I knew some nice girls in high school by that name." REALLY?!!! NYET!!!!!!!!
We started considering more off-the-beaten-path names, but many have associations we can't shake.
Simone—Ruined. By Al Pacino and the movie he starred in by that same name. Unless you don't mind your child sharing the name of an artificially created sex-goddess that doesn't even exist. Next!
Lola—she was a showgirl. Next!
Daphne—A pretty name, except for the Scooby-Doo association. Next!
Triona—Not bad, but it sounds like the name of a triceratops character in Land Before Time XXV, The Great Three-Horned Calamity. Next!
Ophelia—A very strong name. I like it, but I fear she'd grow up with a complex. Next!
Maybe the letters have it. Our last name begins with the letter "A". We considered some of these combinations:
Ione Kennedy Eugenie A---
Patsy Tamarind A---
Diane Nerisse A---
Well, you get the picture. Nyet, nyet, and nyet! Still, I love that IKEA store....
After much thought, my daughter provided just the right insight into the baby naming issue. Mom, she said, we just need to come up with a name that will be mis-spelled, mis-pronounced, and altogether easily forgotten!
So here it is: Caoimhe.
I don't know how to say it, can't remember how to spell it, but gee, I sure do like it.
But seriously, what name will we pick? I can't tell you. Because there are two other baby girls on the way in our extended family, and they share our last name. It's hard enough coming up with a name we like, but now we have to make sure it's not going to be used by someone else in the family.
Traditional family names are out. My husband favors his Polish background, and I can't pronounce half of those names either.
And Julie Andrews? Well, we REALLY liked that name Lisle, from the Sound of Music, but as my dear friend pointed out, although it is a great name, Lisle is SOOO Von Trapp!
NYET!!!!!!!
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Comments
You also have to think about initials - do they spell a word? And how would the initials fit your surname? Don't make the mistake of an old friend of mine, surname Jelley, who called his daughter Katie Yvonne. With initials, a vowel as a middle initial is often a mistake, especially as you don't know what her married name might be in later life. For example, if your name is Atkins, you may think there is nothing amiss with naming your daughter Belinda Ursula. But that might well put her off marrying a Mr Smith or, even worse, a Mr Morgan!
In my husband's culture, it is not allowed to name a child the same thing as anybody in the entire extended family, with only occasional exceptions made for honored elderly or dead relatives. They have big families, too, so hundreds of names can be nixed in a single go. Fortunately in our case, most of those names are unpronouncable to Americans anyway (Mohiniso? Fakhriddin?), but it certainly made finding a name for our daughter an interesting process. I am tempted to leave her an only child for that reason alone. We didn't know her sex before she was born, and every single boys' name and almost every girls' name I have ever liked was nixed either because it was already in one of our families, one or other of us knew someone with the name who we hated, or it couldn't be pronounced by speakers of one of the three different and largely unrelated languages we had to accomodate. It kind of astonishes me we managed to find any name at all!
I had an aunt that was called "sister" for 9 years, came here in a covered wagon ("here" being Oklahoma) and finally named herself Louise.
Names are so interesting!! and, so important. They last way beyond a lifetime.
I don't think you'll have to worry about us taking a name you like, if we have a girl, since I think our taste in names is different than yours. I vote for "Katherine" for you. I like it, but it is overused in my extended family so is not a very good choice for us.
By the way, if you have any cast off name suggestions, I could sure use some ideas. We are due in one month and haven't come up with any likely names. Our daughter wants "Susan". She's the same one who wanted "Hamra" for our last baby. I think her taste is becoming more conventional, but not exactly what I'm looking for.
I think you perfectly identified the problem! There is no perfect name. Someone will screw it up no matter what. Even my name, besides never liking it because it was too common, and more Dr. Seuss jokes than anyone should be allowed to bear, people don't seem to get it. "Hi my name is Sam. Simon? No Sam. Simon? S-A-M. Sam?? Really?? yes REALLY." Not sure why this happens. Just choose one you like.
Find/choose a nice name you would have felt very comfortable with. It is about your daughter and you wish just the best for her.
I love beautiful and rare names. In my opinion, the more you sound like the heroine of a novel, the better! "Brooke" is very odd (and kind of ugly) in non-English speaking countries, and so I spent most of my childhood with a weird name. On the one hand, it was hard to find personalized kids' knick knacks (like those cheesy magnets at tourist shops - so disappointing), on the other hand, if I ever become famous it will be more catchy. Go odd names!
I hope you find an answer to your naming dilemma. Our friends wanted to name their boat but couldn't come up with one they all agreed on. Consequently they had "Nameless" painted on the boat instead. I think that anything you would choose would certainly be better than Nameless. Good luck! I personally love the name Andrea.
Hehe, I liked reading this and seeing I am not the only person who had such a hard time picking a name. I have the problem that if I can associate the name to any one I have ever known - I don't like it. This drove my husband nuts. We finally chose our name from the movie The Godfather. Santino, nickname Sonny. The middle name? I joked if we gave him a middle name that started with an O, his initials would be S.O.S. - therefore our love of literature brought us to Odysseus. Yup, Santino Odysseus. We like it!
My favorite girl name was Novalee, from that movie with Natalie Portman where she gives birth in a Walmart. Too bad I think I am the only person who really loves that name.
Wow! Miss Kitty, I like the names you chose. I have a copy of the original book--the Natalie Portman movie...Where the Heart Is, by Billie Letts, I believe. I also like the author's southern name...a female Billie.
We are leaning toward Evangeline Brooke. Our daughter has an old-fashioned name. too--Veronica. We we call Evangeline "Evie", which also hearkens back to my great grandmother, Eva.
My friend has two boys. I always liked the name she chose for her younger son, Gian Carlos, pronounce "John Carlo". And it is unusual around here.
I'm having a really hard time trying to find names because of my fiance's surname Mann! We like unusual names but they just sound stupid with his surname! His ideas have Maverick, for a boy and Missy for a girl! The more I think of names the more I think that nothing actually goes!! It's going to be bad enough when we marry and I'm going to be Mrs Mann but think of our daughter Miss Missy Mann! He actually really likes this name! I think he's crazy! Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Mann oh Mann, Louise, I do feel for you. I've been noticing a lot of politicians have unfortunate names. There's a person by the last name of Schmuck running for office where I live, and there was a person with the last name of Butts in my last town. Seriously, I'm not joking. Names are such a matter of personal taste, but with your unique situation, I would definitely run it by some friends and family members before you make a final decision. Is there any reason why you and your husband are going with "M" names? You should not choose a name that begins with an O, which rules out Olivia, Ophelia, or Ogden, but you might try some other names that don't begin with the letter M.
Why don't you just call her Julie Andrews?
What did you choose, in the end?
I love Siobhan but didn't name my daugher that for every same reason you mentioned.
There actually was a study that corrolated "ethnic" names with poverty - so you are right on here, names do matter.
Sorry Shakespeare
All, I've been off line for a few months since the birth of...drum roll please...little Evangeline Brooke. We call her Evie for short, which is an homage to my great grandmother Eva, a name I liked, but which was too short for my husband, who leans toward the four syllable names. Loved all of your comments. Keep coming back and I'm looking forward to diving back into the Hubbub of Hubburbia real soon! Thanks.
lovely name - and congratulations!
Thanks LondonGirl! My young son has dubbed Evangeline Evie Cakes. Now everyone has a nickname ending in -cakes. I'm Mommy Cakes. So I guess that makes our family a bakery! LOL
my other half calls me a lion cub (because of the "mane") and so our son gets called "mini cub"
Loved reading this - it is SUCH a chore to name your children! It's as permanent as a tattoo, and there are always those associations we have. The best names in the world can be ruined by one unpleasant person you've known or dealt w/ at some point in your life. I hope you came up with a great name, after so much consideration!
Thank you mamahops! We named her Evangeline. We wanted to pay homage to my great grandmother Eva, and liked the literary connotations. Plus, for now we have cute baby nickname and if she wishes, at a future date, she could shorten the name to any number of different things.
Just pick a name. I like foreign names, as it saves you from having a kid who know 50 other kids with that name in school. Whenever my mum would yell at one of us at a church function using our names, about a quarter of the other church women would look up and go "Yes?" (Michelle, Elizabeth, Ruth, and Danielle) I know you've already had this baby, but if you have another one any time soon, just remember that. When I start having kids, we've decided that either our first daughter will be Andrea Becka (Andrea being a name that means something to my spouse, and Becka being the name of a friend of mine, who was killed by a drunk driver my sneior year of high school) or we will name our first daughter Andrea and our Second Becka. I also like names like Aria (Both for it's connection to Mary, being a derivitave of Maria, and for it's musical connotations) and when I write fiction, I make up names, like Marisil, or Annika (Which I found out later is actually a Norwegian name, which I am completely in love with) Unfortunately I don't have ANY tips for naming boys...I suck at coming up with boys names. My spouse likes the name Seth...but who wants a name like Seth Sillars?!
Suiiki, thanks for your input. Giving a child a name is an art form. I think that naming your child after someone you love and respect is one of the highest forms of praise and honor. In our family, where my husband has 7 brothers and sisters, this was a challenge. We would have liked to name our children after their grandparents, for example, but we had to consider that two of my husband's sisters were already their mothers' namesakes, and both my mother and my husband's youngest sister shared the same name, so there would be many cousins potentially with the same name if we did it that way.
Another thing that complicates naming here in my region of the world is that people often have 5 or 6 kids in their families. Many families use names from their ancestors so you often see Annikas and Bronwyns and the like for girls names. Another interesting naming device is to take part of the husband's name and part of the wife's name, so sometimes you get names like "Dawnell" or "Brylee", two of my college roommates.
Cheers and good luck in your naming adventures.
I think my name is only pronounce "Shuvahn" if you're American. I am English, and have an Irish family (hence the Irish name), and Siobhan is pronounced "shuvorn"
Everyone at school had very plain names - Dean, Adam, Ben, Sarah, Jane etc. I was glad to have an original, slightly unique name!
Thank you for chiming in, Siobhan! I've been waiting for a Siobhan to leave a comment: I'm glad you did! It is a pretty name, just not pronounced as one would expect.
""Dawnell" or "Brylee""
No offence to your college mates, but those are both horrible AND egotistical (-:
Evie, on the other hand, is lovely.
Thanks! Names are a matter of personal taste, but I agree that Dawnell and Brylee are unusual and a little grating on the ears. My college roomies were great girls, though.
Obviously we like Evie, too. :P I'm thinking someone out there doesn't, though.
Evangeline Brooke....so cool wannabwestern!! bet shes sitting up already? her name means like a angel that lives near a brook...funny eh? in the desert, with the Rio gone long dry...Siobhan mans God is gracious...that He is!
RNMSN-I like your new avatar! Thank you. It's interesting you mention the meaning of Siobhan, a name I actually really like. John also means God is gracious, and many names are a derivative of John. One of them being my second child's name, Zane. I agree God is gracious. We have three living proofs of the fact here in our home.
Evie is not only sitting up but she is toddling around and digging out the makeup in my drawer and some days she walks around wearing other people's panties on her head. I'm sure I could make a hub of that one! She is quite a ham.
Love your comments. I never thought of her being an angel in the desert!
Caoimhe is pronounced kwee-va
Siobhan is shuv-awn in Ireland,I know other countries alter pron because of accent differences.
One that's easy to say and a beautiful name is
Aoibhe pron eeva
Aoife pron eefa.
Good luck with birth and baby.
Itakins.
Thank you Itakins! I appreciate the pronunciation guide. I like Aoibhe and Aoife. We named our daughter Evangeline, and in its shortened form, is Evie. :)
Yes I see ,a bit similar!!I have 6 daughters all with Irish names so this subject always grabs my attention.Good luck with choosing,it's not easy.I know!
Thank you. You are kind!
Hi there again ... I would so love to give you a sensible answer or a list of great names, but your hubs always leave me laughing till my sides hurt, so I can't even think. thank you.
Thanks Dim, I have to admit that the pregnancy hormones seemed to really up my humor quotient, probably because it made me so sarcastic. My next humor hub is in process. Thanks for reading, I'm deeply flattered, but I do hope your sides recover.
wannabwestern says:
2 years ago
What factors influenced your baby name choice?