Being Beautiful: A Thinking Woman’s Perspective
80
On beauty:
|
Do You Have the Guts to Be Beautiful?
Price: $24.99
List Price: $28.99 |
|
Dying to Be Beautiful: Help, Hope, and Healing for Eating Disorders
Price: $5.99
List Price: $12.99 |
|
Never to Busy to Be Beautiful: Slimming and Beauty Tips in the Classic Age of Advertising (Ad Nauseam)
Price: $3.30
List Price: $12.00 |
|
It Must Be Beautiful: Great Equations of Modern Science
Price: $10.21
List Price: $19.95 |
|
Your Right to Be Beautiful: How to Halt the Train of Aging and Meet the Most Beautiful You
Price: $18.95
List Price: $19.95 |
|
A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO BE: WHEN COMMON MEETS SENSE
Price: $9.31
List Price: $15.99 |
|
How to be Beautiful: The Thinking Woman's Guide
Price: $15.45
List Price: $24.00 |
|
Beautiful: How to Be A Beautiful Woman of God in a Cosmetic World
Price: $1.53
List Price: $9.99 |
|
The Beauty Myth: How Images of Beauty Are Used Against Women
Price: $8.45
List Price: $14.99 |
|
Dangerous Beauty
Price: $5.79
List Price: $14.98 |
|
The Power of Beauty: Men, Women and Sex Appeal Since Feminism
Price: $3.40
List Price: $15.00 |
|
Reconcilable Differences: Confronting Beauty, Pornography, and the Future of Feminism
Price: $8.61
List Price: $29.95 |
It has been said that beauty itself is a kind of intelligence.
That might be, all in all, a pejorative statement if read in a certain, pop culture-ish light, a culture which feeds on fantasy and desire, after all, in order to make its arbitrators rich, and which often doesn't connect to-shall I say-holistic or serious thought, or even the way most people think privately, in their heart of hearts.
There is enough commercialization and idealization of beauty-especially female beauty. And it's boring. Not just the re-hashing of old saws, like how men are visual, that's why women's appearance is so important, how you can never be too rich or too thin, how women should all want to be Miss America. But also that we limit ourselves to such pre-ordained discussions.
In our heart of hearts, I doubt anyone is really so much a ‘consumer' as the prevailing, grind-in-your-ears crass daily dialogue would have us believe.
So I'm going to ask you to take the statement ‘beauty is a kind of intelligence' to that deeper-to the heart of things-level. And after living over three decades as a female, and plenty of time to think about beauty, culture, art, and exactly where I fit into the mix and what I believe, I think I can make some observations that resonate.
Beauty is a Matter of Taste, Truly
My friend Jon has a thing for petite brunettes with brown eyes and brown hair. Seriously. So much so that all the women he has ever dated have been under 5'4," with creamy complexions, big doe eyes, and that certain shade of chocolate brown hair-usually no gold highlights involved.
This is a guy I have known for 14 years, and have had the opportunity to observe close up. I even know where he keeps his perfectly in-tact collection of Playboys, dating from 1985. I know that there have been women he's seen that do not fit the mold, including an actual model, who had approached him and who he stopped seeing, partly because she tiptoed toward the alcoholic, but also because according to him, she was too tall and had too much of a boyish shape.
And even though she always got noticed in public when they went out (Jon is a musician), and I guess on some level (maybe that consumer-pop level everybody seems to have a stake in) he appreciated that; she wasn't exactly to his taste. Which is, over and over again, a short brunette, who incidentally also somewhat resembles his mom.
I have another male friend, Hodge, who perhaps is not all that unusual. He does not like ‘skinny' women. At all. By this, I mean women who would be considered of normal weight and healthy. He also likes brunettes, but they also need to be "big, dark, and lovely." Yeah, that means many pounds overweight and curvy.
He considers his wife, Sara, who fits this description, beautiful. I have heard him compare her to Audrey Hepburn in looks, although his wife is probably close to 200 lbs. and in no way resembles Audrey's slim, gamin, high cheek-boned icon. Sara does have short baby soft hair, and almost translucent skin. Maybe that's what her husband's identification with her to Audrey is about-I don't know.
And I don't think that this is just something left to men in judging or choosing women, as far as preference. I know for certain that women have their own preferences for male beauty.
As an example, my younger sister likes what she calls "wussy boys." That being men a little on the pretty side, thin to average builds, with nice even features. Office types. Usually with light brown hair-think James Spader from his "Sex, Lies, and Video Tape" days. This contrasts with me, who prefers guys-I have noticed over the years-who are some combination of ruggedness and grace, with broad shoulders, brown or blue eyes, and medium to dark brown hair. Think Hugh Jackman or Patrick Dempsey, who incidentally, my partner resembles. (Nice shoulders will get you everywhere with me!)
And though I recognize many of the men my sister dates are physically attractive by most general standards, and I would describe them as such, when conversing with others, as handsome guys, they usually are of no interest or appeal to me (which I'm sure my sister is quite happy about).
Suffice it to say, I think attraction is a complex matter, and not one that can actually be sold to us like Cheetos, television sets and running shoes, though I think it would be simpler and more profitable, surely, for the advertisers if they were able to fool more of the people more of the time.
Beauty is Health
The more I know about health issues, the more I realize that this is probably the truest statement of them all. Everything that is emphasized in those perfect glossy magazines-the perfect skin and shiny hair, has to do with, at the legitimate level, with being healthy.
Not young, really, either-healthy.
I believe that people are beginning to realize, for instance, that what we thought about as signs and symptoms of old age where really the signs and symptoms of degenerative disease, of poisoning, essentially, from the foods (what did I say about marketing?) we have been programmed to eat, and lifestyles we have been programmed to lead.
Perhaps as a society we need the fantasy images displayed on our screens and magazine racks because we have lost hope for ourselves. In essence, these beautiful people serve as our escape mechanisms. Instead of concentrating on ourselves, the beauty within ourselves, and our own health and attractiveness, it is easier to lip sync about the beauty of this or that starlet, all the while stuffing our faces with cookies and flipping the remote.
The one thing I believe some stars ARE good role models for is the way they ‘work' for their looks. If you read their biographies-especially those who have been around for a while, such as Jennifer Anniston or Suzanne Sommers, they reveal the fact that they were not necessarily ‘just blessed' with beauty, but actually work at it on a daily basis with healthy eating and exercise programs, and the actual study of health issues, which so relate to beauty issues.
Beauty is hard work, but hard work; let us not fool ourselves-that is often good for you.
Beauty is Color, Light and Design
As an artist, you study these things. Maybe that's why I realize more than many that physical beauty-in anything-is often about skill.
That includes a photographer and designer's skill, in the case of our glossy hyper perfect Photoshopped magazine images, but also being skilled in how to dress, style your hair, wear accessories, and carry yourself.
These are things that can be learned, and probably something everyone owes to themselves as people, because it teaches you about your strengths and weaknesses, yes, but also I believe, promotes an appreciation of yourself as a unique, beautiful person.
That way your hair waves over the side of your face that really highlights your eyes, the arch of eyebrows, strong legs, long, perfect fingers, ginger colored hair that lights up when you wear coral-whatever it is, I believe all these things should be admired in yourself and brought out to the best advantage.
Ironically, just recently I was reproached by a girl I work with, who said I must feel bad about myself, since I wore make-up. My reaction to the statement was initially just a bit of shock, because it was kind of a rude statement, for one, and also, because I'd never thought in that direction before.
But no, I don't think using skill to bring out your best is about feeling bad about yourself. Probably quite the opposite, and also, that we as human beings have the tendency to bring artistry into almost everything that we experience-from mountain climbing or running a marathon to ‘elegant' solutions in science. Why not in adornment and dress of our selves?
Beauty is Depth
Shallow thinking is dull, is boring, is facile. And it is probably safe-as far as beauty and admiring beauty is concerned, and just what qualifies as beautiful in commercial culture. But there is a reason, besides money, why some works of art, for instance, are considered beautiful and have been established as icons passed down through the centuries.
True beauty has kind of an indescribable quality. Be that in a beautiful painting or in a person you find beautiful.
It certainly is not just about rock hard abs, perky boobs, and butts you can bounce a quarter off. Neither is it about the hottest hairstyle out there.
Much has been said about the over-exposed quality of classical paintings such as Da Vinci's Mona Lisa. The post modern drill-which does have some merit-is that we have all been taught through conditioning to admire such a work of art, and that for most, seeing the actual painting is a let down, not living up to all the hype.
And maybe that's true for a minute, which is perhaps all our media-addled brains will allow us. But the thing about painting is that it is a static medium-and one in which, in this day and age, we are forced to slow down and contemplate, too consider. (Thus making it all the more valuable, in reality.)
But perhaps in that old (by now) modernist versus post modernist conundrum is the root of something bigger. Some greater loss. Maybe it is not that these beautiful objects which have lasted through centuries and generations have lost their beauty, maybe it is that we that are losing OUR ability to see, and to know, real beauty.
If you liked this, you might also enjoy
- Brooklyn Vs. Manhattan, or Why Warren Buffett Has it Right
A lot has been written on the world’s most successful investor, Warren Buffett, known as “The Oracle of Omaha.” Much material has dedicated itself to unlocking his secrets to success, with hopes that... - MY Top Ten Books of All Time
We all have books we know we ‘should’ have on our lists. Then there are those books that as a literature major and writer, I KNOW I should include on a list. Then there are books of genre and...
Being Beautiful: A Thinking Woman’s Perspective in the News
- Keep Slidell Beautiful has recently received word that it will be honored with a Second Place Affiliate Award at Keep ...St. Tammany News25 hours ago
Keep Slidell Beautiful has recently received word that it will be honored with a Second Place Affiliate Award at Keep America Beautiful 56th National Conference in Washington, D.C. December 4. The local program was selected for this award due to its outstanding efforts to engage individuals to improve their community environments.
- OâConnor: a beautiful way to end the yearIrish Examiner6 hours ago
THAT green and gold machine keeps rolling on.
- Keep Texas Beautiful to clean waterwaysKilleen Daily Herald2 days ago
AUSTIN – Keep Texas Beautiful will continue to oversee the Texas Waterway Cleanup Program since a grant that funds the program was renewed.
PrintShare it! — Rate it: up down flag this hub
Comments
Hi, MM--
Thank you for being the first to read this! And for the nice comments.
The thing is--and I hope I expressed it, though probably should have gone into it further-- Is that I believe that there are many types of beauty, and that all those styles, from Rubenesqes to 20's flappers, etc., still are with us, just like all philosphies and great movements of history are still with us. And they all still have merit in being beautiful. I think in some ways, we have lost that ability to see--or maybe some have never had it--and maybe now, this lack of understanding of beauty is amplified, because of our media obsessed culture.
I think individual taste towards whatever beauty you prefer is a kind of intelligence in itself... Regarding your comments--what do think the world would be like if we all realized our own beauty and interacted with the world in this matter? :)
Thanks! And I hope I get some traffic, I do, but--like you say, there is no real accounting for taste! C'est la vie! :)
oops, I mean "in this manner?" above...
Oh Lita how complicated you make it all sound. I have been on this earth and appreciating the beauty of women a long time.
Up till now I believe I have not seen an ugly woman, some just not as beautiful as others!
As "beauty IS in the eye of the beholder" you cannot put a value on beauty.
Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and yes beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder and it was also rude when the young girl made that comment to you , as she has not realized that one day she will be walking in those same shoes to , and that comment will come back. There is anything wrong with wearing make-up and looking and feeling good about oneself, she was just insecure as you were more beautiful inside and out then her and I am certain that you shined right on through.:)
Hi, Ag-
Well, if I made it all less complicated, I'd be out of a career as a writer, :).
I think what happened is that Christoph's dolls kind of freaked me out, to be honest. I just kept thinking about that. I also think to men of your generation it probably was simpler (always seemed so for my dad), and maybe I'm wishing it were more like that now. I think guys of my age and younger have hang ups, often. Maybe its that approaching middle age thing--I dunno. I wish many of them were smarter!
Thanks for stopping by and reading.
AEvans-
You are absolutely right that what is important is that a person FEELS beautiful. Confidence itself is beautiful and has a lot to do with how a person reacts toward the world around them, as MM says above.
The back story on the girl in question is that she has a boyfriend that makes her feel just terrible-- She has two children with this guy at 21 already and he's cheated on her; she also has a hyper-confident older sister who is in medical school, so I think it was a combination of those things.
I did persevere and did the only thing I know that can be done--be nice to her (probably a midwestern forte!) and it seemed to work. Just the thought of wearing make up because you feel bad about yourself never crossed my mind--I've always been sort of a girly girl.
Lita it is amazing how simple things are with the benefit of hindsight?
Just think back about the things you have worried about, say 10 years ago, do they seem so important now? If they don't you shouldn't have worried about them then.
If they do you should have done something then so you wouldn't have to worry about them now. In other words if you have a worry now do something about it, so that in 10 years time you haven't been worrying about it for 10years. If you can't do anything about it there is no point in worrying is there. See simple isn't it?.
I would absolutly love to be your age I think it is a tremendous time to be young.
In fact any time is a good time to be young.
As Robin Williams said "Sieze the day"
btw I can see in your writing that you are a beautiful young lady you need to relax and project your beauty!
Very thought provoking hub, and exquisitely well written. You want to talk about things that tweak the apprehension of beauty, a colossal intellect makes up more than make-up ever will.
Beyond that, my two cents would be to say that men are attracted to whatever "look" they are attracted to (seems redundant, but it's not); the only thing that really differs from one to the next is his willingness to proclaim that taste aloud if his particular taste is out of keeping with the current aesthetic trend, and to act upon it. Long, nauseatingly tedious stuff could be written in regards to how we develop our particular and unique sensory parameters through nature and nurture (and has been written), but what ultimately matters is whether a man is confident enough to be true to himself and his unique idea of feminine beauty, or if he will be true to the pressures from without instead.
I would say that it's probably much the same for women - and it likely is -, but women have already proven to be at the very least far superior to men in their ability to "settle" for a mate they actually like and overlook certain elements of his outward looks. I believe this is actually harder to do at some point on a "visual scale" for men, as, there is something to be said for the truth of our being a visual sex. While that may be over-used, and used as a crutch, it is not, despite all that, without merit scientifically. However, I maintain that where a prospective mate falls on that "scale" is a question of being true to your personal aesthetic and not to the cover of a magazine.
Good blog. I agree with the paragraph concerning make-up. Yes there are many things that define beauty but, in all honesty, why should women really care what men think? The ultimate goal should be to be attractive to oneself. That is a woman should take care of herself and cultivate herself to be the best she can be so she feels good about herself, not to please a man. A man will notice these things and be attracted to the woman because, ultimately, she's happy with herself and what's inside shines outside.
Ag-
I have a tendency--yes, it is true--to worry about things for 10 years or more! :) Though I see as I get older I have relaxed about some things, and am more willing to take responsibilities for some things at the same time. I also realize that a lot of what I worry about is atmospheric--the here and now--and probably has to do with the situations. Like I say, approaching middle age.
One thing I've learned is that having money on hand, saved, or the ability to make money (now who is being crass?!, nontheless, it is true, and not even that crass) does more to qualm fears than anything else... But that is for another hub. I've been in school a long time just thinking about stuff like beauty, as you can see!
Shades-
Thanks. I'm gonna take compliments seriously from you. I gotta say, running into such good writers here on hubpages has upped the ante for me, :), because you know I can write a lot of the home and garden/artsy how to's and provide good info. and put myself in line (at least) to make some cash. But now I'm gonna feel outclassed if that's all I do!
Aaaggch! One of these days, when I get good and ready, and am sure you are not going to breathe on me in a shady way, I'm probably gonna have to tap you as a fan. We'll see. At the very least, I'm curious as to whether you have had some stuff published already--short stories? And we should talk fiction and novels and the actually doing them some time--I'm interested in moving into that realm.
As to this stuff here-- OK, I'm willing to talk 'mosts,' or 'on averages,' but then I would have to say that if a woman is willing to 'settle' for a mate in the visual area, she is usually, traditionally, getting a pay off in the wealth, fame and power arena, which basically amounts to security. And as you can imagine, I find that a little repugnant--not even the security thing which is understandable, maybe, given history, but the actual idea of the physical pairings. Like Howard Stern and his girlfriend/now wife. Yuck, just frankly.
It might also stand to reason that there are some women out there (maybe those who might have the inclination to train as artists, I dunno?) for whom being visual is part of our nature, and others who have also read the cultural cues about an attractive mate just the same as men, and who, in an estimation of any and all future happiness, look for an equal across the board.
1. That compliment was meant seriously. You'll start to recognize the signs of my sarcasm as you run into my comments more often, and be able to read me less tentatively. lol.
2. As I recall, though it's been awhile, it seems I've read a number of things that point to the transition from "beauty-centric" (mate aquisition behavior) to "security centric" psychology in women as being pretty standard and well established. So I don't think it's anything to be shocked or embarassed about. Pragmatism is a surival trait. (Yes, I'm a strong believer in evolutionary processes in all their wonderfully complex manifestations.)
That said, there's a point where this natural behavior becomes a saboteur of love, i.e., your example of Howard Stern. While it could be argued that Stern's wealth is a signal to the modern day perception of what constitues a "successful breeding male" in evolutionary terms, I would have to say that it is at least likely that his wealth did more than just give him an air of confidence that overrode his outward appearance.
My point, if poorly made before, was that women (more than men) seem to be more inclined to include intangibles like confidence and humor into their overall apprehension of what is attractive, allowing, if I may take some liberties here, their eyes to see beauty bloom in the face of a man for whom their sensibilties spot behaviors that make for a secure and stable mate. (I would go on into as to why and how gestation, security and child rearing etc. factor into this in evolutionary terms, but you'd be asleep by then, so I'll leave off lol. Well, you might already be asleep, but hey, naps are healthy and good for the spirit.)
3. Yes, I've a few things published, but nothing of note, and nothing that has made me any money beyond a few pennies or a stack of copies. Ironically, nothing that I have written that is any good has been published. I can only get the junk published, and I have this tendency to look back on anything I've written that is more than a year or so old and hate it for being sophmoric and infantile.
What a beautifully written and thoughful hub! That was so rude of your coworker to say that to you about your make-up. Geez, what gets into people?
I was thinking as I read your insights how fluid my own attractions are, and how dependent on personality and intangibles. I don't really have a 'type' that I'm attracted to, and I find that if I like and enjoy a person, that person becomes more physically attractive to me and vice versa. For instance, the more Sarah Palin opened her mouth, the less attractive I found her. Men are the same way--I never know what is going to do it for me--it's completely unpredictable. I don't go for the hunky stereotypes--there has to be something under the surface.
At 55 one of the hardest things is losing my looks. Not that I was ever beautiful, but a day comes when you can no longer coast on your cup size like you did in your 20s, and it's not all bad, but it's an adjustment. In my early forties I set out the make a list of women over 50 I found beautiful. I had to know it was possible, and I found lots of women I could put on the list, not all of them centerfolds.
Great hub! Thank you.
Writer Rider--
Thank you for stopping by and welcome... I think we agree--beauty is a holistic thing and there are many kinds and variations of it--internal and external. I think in the long run, if a woman is to be happy, she's got to please herself and thereby attract those men who see her real beauty.
Lita: A great hub on a very interesting topic, extremely well written. I think that beauty does play an important role in the early stages of "relationships", particularly for younger men. But many other factors come into play. Intelligence has always been critical for me, and it might (or might not) surprise you just how many men agree. I have dated some heart-wrenchingly beautiful women who - it turned out - could not have an intelligent conversation. Those relationships went nowhere fast (like...ended immediately). Hopefully, guys get smarter as they get older, and find more and more things that are beautiful about women than just looks.
I love that statement " Beauty is it's own form of inteligence." I have never heard that before. Great hub!
Pam:
Thanks for reading! I take compliments from you seriously, too :)
I completely agree with you concerning Palin, etc., it has always been for me about the total package of a person as far as any attraction--personality and intelligence are always a part of that. Ruggedness and grace are for me, as much personality/intellectual features in a man as they are physical features!
And I seriously doubt, Pam, that you ever, ever just got by on your cup size. It undoubtedly would never been enough for you, as it has never been enough for me. Your new photo looks beautiful, btw.... The reason I posted the picture of Helen Mirren is that, even at her age, and with her graceful, natural aging, she is still a beautiful woman with a kind of intangible quality... But I know exactly what you are saying. I think it will be an adjustment, definitely, going from a sexual, nubile or whatever kind of attractiveness that always scores some points or benefits in whatever way it happens for you (how is that for being vague? :) )
Christoph-
Thanks for the compliment and for coming by to comment! Also for being so statesmanlike earlier on your doll hub-- You know I believe I in part wrote this after thinking about the issues surrounding all that.
No, it does not surprise me that many men go for a combo of attractiveness and intelligence, as do women. (If they didn't, I'd probably be a very sad person!) I guess what it boils down to is, who would want to be loved in a one dimensional way? Anybody? ...And I do see it as you do, as more an issue of the young or maybe just immature, who have not figured it out completely. Try living with two teenage boys, and you fast get the picture! But that's for another hub...
Shades-
Saving you for last. Wow! Guess you really like to start fights, huh? I've been reading up on you, lately, in religion forums. LOL Kinda funny...
1. I did take your compliment in a genuine way. I was just kind of trying to mess with your mind, because I admit to getting a kick out of it! You may, or may not in the future be able to read this through my written comments. I don't think my somewhat goofy sense of messing with people comes off in the writing, always, which would explain some things.
2. Man, you are prolific and very fluid as a writer, and if I try to address your every point, I will never produce a book of poems, a short story, a novel or anything else, cuz I will be just hanging always on hubpages... So instead I'll just go in outline form: I also believe in evolution. Absolutely. (Just not this mode of so called evolutionary psychology) So, beyond what has already been laid out, and for which people who have no business being published, because their stuff in based on sophomoric conclusions of past history, just to make money, what is there? Do you think the advent of women's rights, gay rights--human rights--etc., happened in a vacuum? Or is it part of human evolution--that part of us, perhaps, that seperates us from the part, (yeah, yeah,) we all recognize as being partially animal?
I did not fall asleep--I know all you said--have read it, too. I just don't buy it. The security-centric view of things does embarrass me (and you'd be surprised how many women, I think) who have worked sometimes against a lots of odds to achieve a number of things--education, oh, i dunno, the right to vote, decent pay. And not because some women fall for in for the security, but because this line of thinking has a tendency to limit women who want/need something else.
Tidbit from the pages of some psychology mag for you to chew on: Did you know that those deemed unattractive men are six times more likely to be descriminated against in pay scale as are those considered unattractive women? ...What I'm saying is that a lot of the male/ female stuff you hear is hackneyed, published because they know it will stir the pot/sell their work.
3. Have you considered graduate school? Seems like that would be the place where you could use all yer skillz, :), and argue in writing eventually fer pay! I myself was going to be a professor, just have started to realize hanging in school for my areas there is an overflooded market & probably not a good pay out in the future... I'm thinking (I could be wrong, so..) you are probably an American Modern afficianado? MAYbe a mediavialist. ? Besides sci fi, of course..
Lita: I just wanted to ad as pertaining to the "more prevalent in younger people," that I think because they are more concerned about what their friends think (although I dare say we all still have a little of that. And some people seem to be capable of transcending this feeling).
Thanks for saying that up there. It made me feel good. I hope I have done something similar for you. Thanks also for the compliment, but I could've been better. Thanks. I do enjoy talking to you!
hi lita...just a poor ignorant fisherman fan commenting because he can...it is refreshing to read good writing...and i just experienced that reading your hub. i'll just make one comment on a very small bit of your hub on the topic of advertising. and that is that advertisers constantly fool the majority; evidenced by their existence. Oh,and good luck on those short stories...pylos
Lita, thanks for the welcome and yes we both agree. It's just that I've being noticing how common it is for both women and men to talk about about pleasing men. It's so funny. But, anyway, I wanted to clarify what I said in my previous comment about make-up and that is, yes, I agree that taking care of yourself shows good self-concept.
Lita:
Yeah, I know I do go on sometimes. So, I’ll try to stick to the point with my reply (which I'm sure will still be horrifically long given the nature of what you asked, lol). I just want to stuff in that I like the new title of this hub. I think it is a good choice, and speaks more directly to your point. So, to the other stuff:
1. Time will tell on the humor I think. I hope I do become familiar enough with the subtleties of your writing to spot nuance. Any sluggishness in this regard is to be blamed on my penchant for beer rather than any want in your prose.
2. You asked: “Do you think the advent of women's rights, gay rights--human rights--etc., happened in a vacuum? Or is it part of human evolution--that part of us, perhaps, that separates us from the part, (yeah, yeah,) we all recognize as being partially animal?”
No, I don’t believe these rights happened in a vacuum. I think that evolution happens gradually, which is why it’s evolution rather than revolution, and I also think it happens in spurts. I think that the animal that we are today is a complex mess of higher social function and remnant base drives. I mean, you don’t have to look very far to see how these both manifest in all of us. We have moments of high-minded glory and moments of, WTF did I just do and where are my underpants?
I think the animal we are today has the capacity to achieve advanced social behaviors like the recognition of the fact that the aging value (if not completely outdated) practice of alpha-male and female supremacy and the corresponding hierarchical structures so induced are no longer necessary and in fact are counterproductive, as those subjugating behaviors reduce the number of active minds available to further advance knowledge and therefore the overall success of the species. I believe it is in a particular and unique moment in human history that we find ourselves a nation that actually wars with itself over tradition and contradictory genetic predispositions and still manages, if slowly and lurchingly, to find ways to find the higher ground in the end. I did say slowly, right? I don’t believe the recognition of human dignity in increasingly smaller subsets of humanity is in itself an example of evolution, but an example of what is possible within the latest leap in evolution that came about somewhere between 10 and 50 thousand years ago. Rome wasn’t built in a day, so to speak.
Unfortunately, we don’t universally do this reaching for our highest potential as a species, yet if we look around the globe, the U.S., a very new nation, leads this social manifestation of the higher possibilities of our present animal state (as pertaining to the specific rights you mentioned). But even we fail miserably in times and places due to the Jacob Marley-esque chain of our old habits and traditions that we still drag along with us in our DNA that make boobies jiggling drop our jaws and our IQs by factors of 40 or more in a moment (parts and 'yeah yeah' lol), or perhaps inclinations that make a rich man seem suddenly very, very appealing to us despite seemingly contradictory other factors… we’re still clamoring towards something more than what we used to do, and that matters to me.
Our pleasure sensors are all still functioning at a level far more primitive than our social potential does (as is evident by all the religious doctrine that warns against pleasures of the flesh) so, it won’t be pretty, but we are moving there. It may seem painfully slow to people being squashed by outdated social circuitry, but history will see the last 200 years as a leap of progress for human dignity. I just hope we can hold on to it. Frankly, the mindset of some hubbers I read makes me think that a couple of wrong moves and we are back in the middle ages quicker than I can open another beer. Let’s hope that dignity can continue to rise above doctrine as it has continually done since Guttenberg. All I know for sure is that the current evolutionary phase of this animal we are allows for us to try, succeed here and now, and hope for more later due to our own example.
I know that was long, but I hope it answers what you asked. I don’t claim it to be fact or right or anything else. But, it outlines, probably crudely, my general attitude. For the rest, the statistics and stuff, I could have a lot of fun agreeing with your ugly-guy statistic. It seems very believable. Whether it’s true, who knows, but I don’t have to think very hard to imagine how that would work if it is.
3. Medievalist. (I throw the most amazing Medieval parties, I make chainmail by hand, and my house is full of medieval stuff :) And I’m crawling towards a master’s degree in creative writing. I got bored and decided, wtf, just do it. I’m about half way.
Great information. nice hub
Christoph-
:) No worries, and yeah, I was happy to see you here. I haven't been talking tooo much these days, as no way am I as fluent....as oh, say....the shady one above. I've got to concentrate, or my stuff comes out mediocre.
Hi, Pylos--Drift on over from a certain anti-christ hub, did you? LOL. Thank you--comments that I write well always hit the right spot, :). And absolutely I think that advertising fools the majority. Know so, in fact, since I also worked in advertising. It can be depressing, agreed.
Writer Rider-
I didn't realize you were a hubber--thought you just came from outside to comment, :) Looks like we have quite a bit in common. Yeah, that pleasing men thing parlayed by both men and women is a little funny, but also a bit maddening to some of us.
Shades-
So, we actually agree on most things. And maybe because I have more at stake (as a female) I'm usually concentrating toward progression in a harder way. I dunno. (Also, as a visual-type, I would have a real hard time finding rich old ugly men appealing, lol. Plus, you know how boring that is? Gimme a poor, attractive, intelligent, guy my own age any day--I'll make 1/2 the money! Much more fun.)
Yeah, well, sigh-- The mindset of those. I don't have an explanation except to say you are right, and it is hard to know even how to engage them in dialogue, cuz you know your (one's) reasoning, sarcasm and education really turns them off, they actually don't read, and when they do, they don't have the filtering devices necessary to choose valid sources. I don't know if there is a way to turn the masses, frankly--except to go at it in a very core way stoking best instincts on an elemental or kindergarten level--more mammal than higher reasoning. ? And I'm at a point where I believe maybe you shouldn't even try.
Well! You know you are gonna be broke with a graduate degree in writing, don't you? I'm moderately published and I'm still broke. Chainmail, hah! From the tone of some of your other postings, oh your poor wife... But no--I mean consider an actual Phd in literature, since bombastic know it alls can become well-paid professors in lit departments.. :)
Yeah, you're so right about engaging in dialogue sometimes. If people aren't on the same wavelength, intellectual plane or disposition towards what constitutes conversation, well, things fall apart fast, no matter how hawt they are. Just have to get the hawt dumb ones to bed quickly before boredom makes you unresponsive physically. LOL. Sorry, that just came out. I try to keep that stuff in, but, it's like... pop, damn, ... and there it is. :)
And I don't know about the Ph.D. Not sure I want to teach lit. I'm only taking the classes I take because I want to see what others have to say about the process of writing so I can learn more and improve. Not getting the MA as an income generator.
Yah? Well that's good, cuz I sorta hated some of the bombastic know it all lit profs, as I remember. Just! You might have the chops for it, lol.
And by THOSE, I mean what's happenin' in the religion hubs/forums right now. Got problems with those hawt 'christian' chicks??? Maybe, through your mode of dealing, you should just tell them they are all hawt and you dig them...
Gawd, you remind me of my friend Mark, a car salesman cum (Latin, OK?) ad salesman these days, only you can write.... LOL.
Loved it thank you
I think most of THOSE would annoy me fast and therefore fall into the category of hawk chicks who need to be whisked off to bed quick before I get a headache.
Mark the salesman must be awesome. :P
cdloanmod-
Your welcome! Thanks for reading.
Shades-That's exactly what Mark would say, >:0. What then, are you hanging on your computer at work?
Well, if that asks what I think it asks, I would say that photographs of hawt chicks do nothing to prove or disprove wit so I can assume wit given lack of evidence to the contrary.
You see, for each of my bad characteristics, I try to have a redeeming one to balance out. In this case, depravity is offset by optimism. :)
Shades-Oh, so, more truth than I asked for is coming out! You are doing 'something' while 'hanging' at work, I see... lol! Where are YOU keeping your mint condition 20 year collection of Playboys?? Do you enjoy those essays those centerfolds write about world peace and chunky monkey ice cream and all there dreamz and azpirations? I'll bet you do! :0 (BTW, friend Mark is single and doesn't concentrate so much on that kinda literature or other written material & he doesn't hang photos on his computer. No, in truth he can call half of Sedona his 'girlfriends,' or whatever, kinda a male slut.)
No, no! I'm always more interested in the writer person, you'll see.... I'm asking, since you are not thinking of the graduate school path for money or career or whatever, and since 1) yer married, 2) have kids, 3) are a lot of times online, you must be 'hanging' on your work computer in some big sales office over in Cali writing stuff on hubpages and taking writing classes. ?
Actually, I mostly just write at home. When I tried quit my last sales job out of hatred for the industry, they insisted that I keep however many accounts I was willing to call on rather than risk losing them to competitors when I left. I still didn't really want to, but with no other rules or stipulations and at a higher rate, how could I say no? Unfortunately, that is unraveling fast now though, as the auto industry is collapsing and my accounts are closing their doors left and right, and those that aren't don't buy half what they used to. I'm actually looking for something else now. Gonna suck to have a real job after all this time on the gravy train and getting to be artsy writer type most of the time. Not looking forward to going back to mundania. Do have a finished novel getting mailed around and a wad of short stories and one novela (in revision still, but close). So, that's someting I suppose.
The Mona lisa is beautiful because of the slight imperfections (uneven perspective), like Cindy Crawfords mole.
As a person who has been paid to photoshop covers and worked with fashion photographers - in the end, true beauty does weigh heavily on the side of intelligence. IMHO
i think the concept of being beautiful is subjective, through space and time.
Sunforged-You don't know how many people I know with a background in the visual arts who agree with the fact that beauty has to do with imperfections!
And I also know about the airbrushing... I see you are a new yawker--you know all those ads in the back of the Village Voice? I'm not proud of it, necessarily.
Mariane14-I agree, yes. You have a postmodern view of things, I think. Definitely it is true of the prevailing culture. But then, yes, subjective is a personal view, too.
Shades-In case you check back... Actually, that is a lot--all that writing out. The three books I published were through a contact in NYC--now she is gone and I have not had a contract anywhere since. Came close, but it was ruined, basically BECUZ of mundania--exhausting dam* jobs. I can tell you that as far as creative writing goes, the more you get out, the better. I was going to write a hub on it... But I have had some success in just making a goal to get one or two submissions out a day. It works...and I mean continue this for months. I got some pretty decent literary journals, ie, and even was noticed by a couple fancy reviewers. I think people stop short of what is necessary (including myself) to be successful as a writer.
And no worries if you are a sales person. Always spots for you--consider internet advertising? There's a future in it!
Yes as they beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. My cousin(extremely handsome) guy married this girl (whom we thought looked extremely ordinary besides him). But when he first told us that he is marrying his classmate from MBA class we were eager to see her picture then in the photo was "ordinary" looking girl then we thought maybe she isn't photogenic then when we went for the marriage it turned out everybody was thinking on the same lines. But when we spoke to her we realized she is so jovial and a really nice person. Then we understood why my cousin liked her so much. The other way round nobody talks so much if the girl is good looking and the guy is "average" looking atleast in Indian culture. Anyway Great hub.
Maybe we'll have to trade pieces sometime, swap critiques. That would be fun. And yeah, you're right about not doing what we should do. I'm great about writing and revising, but so lackluster when it comes to finding a new place to send stuff when a piece gets rejected. I don't really like crawling through Writer's Market or Duotrope. Worse for me is I really only started writing serious fiction in addition to genre in the last two years or so, so I'm having to find new houses every time I write something new (or get turned down) ... so I'm spending tons on buying stuff from these people to see if they are suited to my work only to find out they publish sucky stuff nothing like mine (Because obviously my work is not sucky dammit lol). /sigh
Shade-(Mind if I call you Shade? lol) Might be in your interest to find a literary agent. I mean, you've got stuff finished. That's SO ahead of the game. And I actually don't know a lot about this part practically, but I read this book coming out of the 70's, I believe, from an insider in the publishing business--the guy responsible for signing Mario Puzo, the author of the Godfather series. I think a lot of stuff was more honest coming out of the 70's-- Anyway, the publishing world is sorta a closed, close-knit society--like sales as you kinda described it in your industry--is the way he portrayed it. And for sure it still is now--most of the legit. publishing houses are in new yawk (some in San FranO, and absolutely it is niched and clubby. Agents get your stuff out for you to the right inside people and take a percentage of your royalties (and you absolutely want to go royalties, and be payed over and over again--I didn't on what i published). This is well worth it--at 8 to 13% or something they take.
An acquaintance I know of just published a historical sci fi novel with a major publisher-- Believe he got a $100,000 advance and is in position for royalties. So! It can be done... And this isn't going to be a best seller, but is genre. Nothing wrong with genre. To me, that looks like success... Serious fiction?--my friend Jon's father (yes, he of the 20 year playboys) is a lit. prof. He hits up university presses for that. Real literature--doubt you will ever make a mint unless your story gets parlayed into a movie or you win the national book prize or something. Anyway--I know this is all handled through his agent... Because once you get one, you develop a relationship with the agent and you have one successful venture (whatever genre--Jon's dad writes in several) the more likely they will be able to sell any of yer stuff.
OK! So, that's my publishing lesson for the night! Gotta go.. lol... But maybe it can help you.
CW:
:) I'm not doing what CR did on his Save Christmas hub. I didn't forget you. I just had to get that publishing stuff out! hehe...
Absolutely, I think it is still somewhat like what you describe in the US--just as in India. People are less likely to look down on the fact that an attractive woman is with an unattractive guy. I don't care for this model at all and am instead in favor of equality all around... In my experience, I think partners at about the same attractiveness level works best and they have the best chance at happiness.
I've found that the kind of guys who aren't that handsome, usually looking for an attractive woman, have some mental or personality issues in general--like they are trying to make up for something by dating or being with the woman. Not usually a healthy situation to be in for a girl.
And thank you for the compliment! (BTW, are you in the US or India?)
Yeah, I know the stories about agents. And I will find one eventually. But I've had considerable luck getting requests for my manuscripts off of my queries, so I keep trying that. I'm in this weird tandemy thing though because it takes so frickin' long to submit novels (even queries can take 2 to 6 months and they hate simultaneous submissions, and I, being the last honest moron, play by the rules) and I only have three finished ones, so, I haven't exhausted all my "do it myself" stubborness. (Although, I'm seriously considering shit-canning my first two. They aren't good and I know it now, but keep hoping someone will like them anyway LOL.)
I hate this part, honestly. You want to know a real pisser... ok, long digression here, but, well, you can just say, "Wow, cool story" to this and skip it if you want. I'll never know lol.... but, here's a pisser:
About two years ago, maybe three, a relative very near to me (I leave the relation out because this tale doesn't represent them well) told me that my Aunt Eilene was dying. Now, you might think, "Aww, how sad," but the thing is, I'd never heard of her before. So, I was like, "Ok, that sucks to hear, but, uh, who is she?" He told me a little bit about where she lived and how she was kind of a distant aunt etc., but that she had a big old house and had some stuff and that I should go talk to her and get to know her before she died.
I was like, "WTF? She's dying and I should go say 'hi' now so I can get her stuff? How lame is that?"
So, anyway, I guess I should have gone to meet her, but I didn't because, well A) I hated how the whole thing was presented to me, like I should go perch like an F-ing vulture on the branch outside her window and sing songs like a bald-faced sparrow until I got my chance to pick the meat off her bones.... and B) I don't do death and misery well, so, call me a coward, but I didn't want to go meet someone just so I could participate in her death. (Don't judge me too harshly; I try not to be shallow, but, meh.)
So anyway, I refused, was told I was stupid, and that was that. After she died nearly a year or so later (she lingered in perfect mental health, but frail apparently) there was much grubbing through her possesions and I refused to even go see the house. Anyway, the whole thing finally went away and I kept my conscience in tact.
You know what I found out a few months ago? She was a bigtime New York editor in the 50s and 60s, made names for people (don't ask me who, I never got that info either) and was a minor celebrity for a few years for how good she was at turning decent writing into great writing.
Now THAT is something I would have been happy to take from her. I would have loved to go listen to her talk about the industry. WHo knows, maybe she would have really got a kick out of taking one last person's story and making it great, especially if it was someone in her family. Might have brightened up her last year or so. Anyway, why didn't anyone tell me that instead of pointing out she was going to be toast and I could have her stuff?
Well, that was long. Sorry. But, yeah.
Lita - Iam in Seattle now. But I am originally from India. I came to US more than 4 years back as a student and now working here. Personally I would prefer a guy who feels he is lucky to have me rather than make me feel I am lucky to have him. Ofcourse he shouldn't be totally unattractive but looks certainly aren't top on the list of my preferences. You do possess a good memory (but in defense of Christoph he puts in too much thought in each of his replies and I kind of jumped on to him too early)..hehe.
This is avery interesting article and really got me thinking. I'm to be pondering this.
Thank you so much.
RGraf-
Thank you!
Shade-Yep, that was long, :), but that's OK... Yeah, that's sad. People are weird. I mean, I like 'stuff' like the next person, but not soooo much I'd lose my conscience and become a vulture or a whore, basically. Who cares? Pay for stuff yourself. What's the fun (being creative/hard working and achieving those things yerself is what is fun, for me) of scalping somebody else for that? Poor lady--I hope she had somebody around her who valued her for who she was in the end.
BTW, fancy new yawk editors are not always so fancy--tho there is this Ivy League applicant thing I faced when I lived there--but they are just people like you or me who decide they want to do something and go where the publishing houses are...
CW-
How do you like Seattle? That is on my list for a trip soon.
It would be my wish for you that you find somebody who really cares for you and you for him, all politics aside! (Though maybe they are always there, who knows.)
if one took away Helen's million dollar dress and hairdoo she would look like her own self...old, tired and spent. ...just an observation from afar.
sorry...double post
Plyos-Well, they say beauty is a gift in youth, and an art form in age.
Liz Hurley also has said (to add to the discussion), that the young are beautiful as kitties and puppies are 'beautiful,' but not truly beautiful, as a fully developed adult is.
If I had to vocalize what is beautiful about Helen Mirren, I would say it is something about the way she is so subtle in how she styles herself--the dress is so becoming to her natural, simple gray hair, and she still has that healthy glow thing in her skin, and has lovely eyes. She's working with the beauty of her 'age,' rather than faking anything. She's just a classy broad.
And I hardly call an actress going strong and winning awards 'tired and spent.' We will all get old. Fact of life. So?
I guess a person has a choice to reiterate what previous generations have done when going through the years and get fat, pick out a rocking chair, and get sickly, or continue to live, and live well, in beauty and enthusiasm--maybe just a little wiser than in youth.
Lita - Seattle is a beautiful place but it does rain often(not a lot). Thanks for wishing me to find a good hubby. I might find one very soon who knows...hehe
God, I'm glad I'm a guy so I can be fat and still like myself well enough. I feel sorry for women in a way, because society foists (biology foists) the onus of adhering to aesthetic rules that are tedious. I guess it is what it is, as they say. I have to say, Helen Mirren is definately maximizing what she's got. That is a classy woman.
Shades - Guys are judged based on many factors like whether they are witty (which you possess in abundance), heart (which Christoph possesses in abundance), intelligence (paraglider possesses in abundance) and so on. But for woman in general having all that is just an addition to a good anatomy (infact some guys may even get putoff if woman have too much of the same great qualities). But for men the more the better of the same qualities. And woman tend to view that one great trait and turn a blind eye to some obvious visible things (big belly or bald head....)....LOL
Shade-Oh, no! I'm gonna hang on the computer again, today... Gotta do laundry inbetween...
And I think I slipped up there-- maybe (?) Not sure. I think there are people who (relatively) are naturally thin (even skinny) and those who are heavier--through genetic structure. Which is different from those who unhealthfully 'give up' or couch potato themselves when they get older. I never plan to be the latter--1) because for me I know I'd feel sick, 2) feeling healthy makes you look and feel great.
And I think its a lot cultural. I.E., I think African American women usually have good self esteem no matter what their size. Me boyfriend & I were just discussing this--many of them look good because they take care of their hair and clothing always.
And always--I'm talking about normal realms of things-- I'm not talking about abnormal aesthetic preferences like anorexic people.
CW-
Ha! They do get put off, sometimes, but do not let that stop you! Honestly... I say that because I know you are a smart, educated woman... An engineer?
And I'm afraid I'm not as sweet or kind as you, maybe because I'm older, maybe because I'm also just an American....! But I think for a lot of women it is always a combo of things as it is for men--looks and personality/intelligence.
Lita - Yes Iam an engineer but that doesn't mean Iam smart (I can be very dumb sometimes) and educated (my bro keeps telling me I know so little about politics/economics and general affairs)...hehe. Btw I can be pretty moody and emotional in the company of my close friends and family(seriously they will tell you how sweet Iam)...hehe. Btw I just follow a simple rule "be nice to people who agree with you and be nicer to people who disagree with you"...LOL
Btw I find Americans in general are very warm, open minded and generous people hence being an American you should be proud of it. I agree the general perception after the Bush invasion of Iraq (that americans are arrogant) is far from the truth.
CW-I'd say by the tenor of your comments you seem smart. (Yeah, sometimes the most educated are the most blind).We Americans of are of all kinds, as I'm sure you've seen. Maybe Indians are more respectful of others as a culture, tho (?) I'm sure not all. BTW, have you seen an incredible movie, "Water," by an Indian American woman director--part of a trilogy--dealing with women in Indian culture. All I can say is 'Wow.' So beautiful.
Lita - That movie was made my Deepa Mehta (Indo Canadian Director). It was set in historical time frame with a controversial story (I.e., widows forced into prostitution). But yes she does make movies which generate a lot of heat in conservative quarters. In general based on my interactions with various Americans has been a good experience. I sometimes find it funny when some people have such a wrong notion about India(I.e., I was once travelling to Mount Rushmore on the way in Sioux city a white woman asked me in a restaurant "whether woman in india marry snakes" I told her ofcourse they do why do you think they possess such a slim svelte bodies otherwise (btw Iam an exception as Iam a little generously proportioned) I later explained that it is an urban legend and not true)...LOL
CW-Oh, didn't know she was Canadian! It has been a while since I saw it--but just the way it was shot, with the lights and the poetry--just beautiful. I'm impressed with her talent.
Well, you know I lived in Iowa for a while. LOL. But I cannot speak for all of them. Sounds like somebody who hasn't read much or traveled much. I've never heard that snake thing. Odd.
My knowledge of Indian culture has more to do with the fact I love Indian food (San Francisco has some of the best little places I've been to), their children in general always seem to be pretty successful (made fun of in American movies like Harold & Kumar), but which is a thing to be admired, and I sponsor a little girl in Satay.
You guys don't consider yourselves 'white?' Hmm.
Lita - As a race we are mostly considered as caucasian but complexion wise we mostly have the bronze complexion. She has heard about that from some christian missionary who had been to India (Tribals who feel some girl was not born at an appropriate time and would be harmful to her husband they have a mock ritual to get her "married" first to a imaginary snake and then the real husband marries her). There maybe some tribes like that still existing in remote parts of the country. The perception of India is best understood when one travells oneself as those who say such things want deliberately others to consider India as filled with very archaic customs and strange traditions living in stone ages.
Glad you like Indian food I myself find it very spicy now that I have stopped cooking with all those spices. Indian parents insist on education and that has been one of the reasons the kids have done well. Great noble deed of sponsoring a child.
CW-
Uuch. Well, lots of Americans are clannish and stick to their own. It's about fear. And we both witnessed that stuff going on in the religion forums. I ask about 'white' because I had a past relationship with a guy from Georgia-- Those guys, though the Russians consider them 'Asian,' consider themselves Caucasian.
I do like all those spices! And they are good for you. Especially love Tandoori oven baked dishes and the Jasmine rice. Yum! But then, I am really culturally diverse about many things--I like all kinds of food.
No, you don't need to call me noble (see, I'm a little modest, like you, :) ) I'm doing it because why shouldn't I? I have money (compared to her), she's a cute kid, and yeah, Indian parents often want education, etc., for their kids. Might as well give some support to someone who seems deserving.
Lita - Glad that you like spicy food. Since you asked me I giving a brief overview of racial classification. Broadly speaking there are only 4 types of Races i.e, Australoid Race, Caucasoid Race, Mongoloid Race, and Negroid Race.
There are ofcourse now many intermixing of these races.
Caucasian word has originated from the term caucasus mountains in central asia.
Indians majority are mostly considered as Caucasoid with parts of eastern India a mix of Caucasoid & mongoloid.
Most of eastern asia like china, japan, korea are considered as mongoloid.
Central Asia and South Asia are also considered as caucasoid.
South east asia is again a mix of caucasoid and mongoloid.
South Pacific Islands and original inhabitants of Australia are considered as Australoid.
Most of Africa are considered as Negroid (parts of north/east africa again mix of caucasoid and negroid)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
CW- knew this. :)
It is interesting to me, with all the cross-classifications, etc., and murky designations, how people define themselves & why. Identity and all that...
Yah, Zviad was from Georgia, supposedly where the Caucasian race originated. Yet Russians in the post Soviet Union world are likely to see him as 'Asian.'
Lita- It is interesting how the britishers used to think Indians as "uncultured" people when we mostly belonged to the same race as theirs. We studied this subject in school long time back. There is a further classification of Geography called as human geography. One of the areas in that is the spread of human race in different geographical places. Whether a Russian considers a Georgian as Asian than that's upto them (Iam not sure if its ever going to be part of European Union) but the fact that their race is caucasian no body can deny that. Iam sure the further east one goes in central asia the more the intermixing of caucasian and mongoloid takes place. Then comes the huge himalayan boundary that separates countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bhutan from Tibet, China & Central Asia.
The facial features like nose, headsize, eye shape etc are similar even if the complexion is changed over a course of time living in different climatic conditions.
CW-Well, they say that race in humans isn't even as much of a difference or change genetically as ie, different sorts of breeds in dogs and cats. It's weird we make so much of it.
States of course use it to their advantage, especially in places like the former Soviet states--they stoke racial and religious differences to promote wars to further their political agendas.
Calling some group 'uncultured' is just to make it easier for empires to colonize a country for their own agenda.I'd never heard that Southeast Asians had Caucasian strains. That's interesting...
Lita - Burma, Thailand, Malaysia are part of that where there was a lot of mix between caucasian and mongoloid race it is also called as IndoChina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indochina )
I agree race isn't so important in this day and age but still even in recent times so many places we see ethnic cleansing which is just so wrong. We should be judged for our worth not our birth. I always say this back to my relatives(in my ancestral village) in India that USA provides equal opportunity and anybody can make it big in this country (and the biggest example is Obama) provided the person is talented and hardworking.
CW-So you are not from a city in India?
The US does allow for opportunity, certainly, more than other countries, though it is not 100% either. As a person with a massive amount of student loans needed to obtain my degrees I look at some of the coutries in Western Europe as being better than us in many ways.
Perhaps Obama will bring us closer... I see the anti-christ hub is still going strong.
Lita - My dad was a Judge in the Navy (JAG) branch. We were moving from one place to another but my mother's native place is where I am really close and keep meeting them during the summer vacations. Even recently when I went they were asking how I deal with the "arrogant americans" (ever since bush invasion of Iraq the press has been giving the US a bad rap) and why I still stay here inspite of it (I try to remove that perception as much as possible).
Regarding my bachelors it was fully paid by my dad's savings (in india mostly parents start saving a certain amount every month from the moment a child is born) and it matured at 18. My Master's I had to prepare for GRE for about an year to get a score of 1400 + to get an assistantship to study in US (for which Iam forever indebted to US educational system).
Some students who are economically deserving their should be loans/grants for them but the overall quality of education shouldn't in anyway be compromised. The best university like Harvard which is private has extended economic help to deserving students. US isn't the perfect country on earth but if any country comes close to perfection then that is US. Even when I was student I was interacting with the British, Russian and Chinese students who said they don't want to go back to their country and settle here in US. The greatness of a country can be judged by how many people want to get out of it and how many people want to get into it.
The "anti-christ" thing is pretty disturbing as it tends to spread fear which is the last thing we need in these times.
CW-Well, my dad was a truck driver and my mother a waitress, :). I am a first generation college graduate and the only one in my family to have obtained a degree. There is opportunity here--absolutely--when people are aware of how to go about it. I.E., if you have to go about it yourself, and don't come from an educated background, it is much harder.
All the universities/colleges in the U.S. offer financial aid & I had all of that, but school #1 was private, and so expensive.... I just know that some of my foreign friends from Europe were allowed to go as far as they wanted--to Phd level or several M.A.'s if they wanted at universities in western Euro.--and cost was no issue. I would have lived up to that privilege, absolutely, but as it is--I do not feel like more school can ever be an option for me because it would not pay off.
It is all OK! And I have heard from foreigners, too, that yes, our offerings, and the freedom of the liberal arts universities is the best in the world... I'm thinking Obama, who also was saddled with lots of student loan debt in his pursuit of education, will be sensitive in creating programs to deal with issues surrounding it.
So, are you an industrial engineer?
Lita - Iam basically an electronics engineer and did my masters in computer engineering. I agree it is tougher with no role models and financial support. I admire your determination and hope the new obama presidency is considerate about the student loans.
Well I don't want to generalize but the general perception in India is if you are not good enough to get funding in US then the alternatives like UK/Australia need to be considered. Ofcourse Oxford/Cambridge are an exception. Iam only considering english speaking countries otherwise that is another dimension that one needs to be concerned with.
The taxes are so high in some of those European countries that they feel US is better if you have a good career but bad for those who are in the middle class. Even Canada has higher taxes but better benefits for all its citizens.
Anyway as they say "Successful people are not the people who have the most but they are the people who make the most of what they have".
Well, said, CW-
And interesting, too, as always from another perspective. My opinion on my own country is that we are getting there, but we are still a little 'frontier.'
I know when you live in a nice city or town, like Seattle, you don't see the things I take issue with so much.
As a blessed woman whose husband calls her "beautiful" even with a few extra pounds and when my hair resembles a bird's nest, I am glad to read your article. It isn't just that he has to say that -- he really believes it. :) I comletely agree, by the way -- Beauty is truly about depth.
Hi, SEO-You are truly blessed to find someone who loves you unconditionally. It makes all the difference, absolutley--a great depth to that. Really, if it were all so simple as the advertisers would have us believe, we writers and artists would be out of business--no reason to think about beauty or love anymore, Walmart shoppers. :)Thanks for reading!
Hi Lita! I read the hub and found your take on beauty (all the perspectives you cover) very interesting, so I thought to post a comment ... only to be "detained" in the process by all the comment history, which, I have to say, is as engaging as the hub itself! Well done on beauty, and well done on the "follow-up"! :-)
Beautiful Hub, Lita - Helen Mirren approaches the Divine Kate for grace and beauty, so it got off to a good start with me :)
Personally, I find that it is all in the eyes. If a woman has warm, intelligent and soulful eyes, then I melt and start doing the Hugh Grant bumbling Englishman thing!
Elena-Thank you very much for reading through all that, :). Yes, we got off track a bit talking about other things in the comments.
I think as a woman you almost have to come to terms with beauty and where you fit in with it in today's society. It's my hubpages humble attempt.
Sufi-I already new you have good taste! Yes, I think Mirren is an it-girl for her age. And I agree about the eyes--that works for a guy, too.
I think beauty is rare, and actually not that important. My Granny was beautiful, up to and including her late 80s, nothing to do with age.
I know I'm not beautiful. I'm OK, don't frighten small children or scare the horses, but nothing special. Which doesn't bother me at all.
My other half is definintely more attractive than I am, but fortunately he doesn't seem to realise it (-:
And maybe you see him through the eyes of love, LG, which creates beauty...
Real beauty is both common and rare, sacred and profane--so says one with the pretensions of a poet. And those are both blessed and cursed. :)
No, I know he is very good looking, I've seen the attention he has always got, from the time I met him when he was 18 to this day (-:
You're lucky & he must really love you then.... Is he blond, too, lol (ie, your child)?
I think I must be really into things being analagous. Hmm. Didn't know that about myself. Thanks for reading, too.
No, he's dark-eyed, dark-haired, tall, and slim. Isaac is also tall and slim, but doesn't really take after his Abba in other ways!
Interesting quote "Perhaps as a society we need the fantasy images displayed on our screens and magazine racks because we have lost hope for ourselves."
Love - Light - Laughter
Neil
Wow, your observations here are nothing short of superb. I thoroughly enjoyed reading this as you bring up point after deliciously philosophical point. Can't wait to read more of your hubs!!!!
Hi, Roo Bee--Thanks very much for reading, :). Well...this one I took some time on. Not all my stuff is this in depth, I must admit...this was written when I had some time off from working. Just so you aren't dissapointed, lol.
Hi, Neil--Hmm. Why didn't I respond to you 2 months ago? Oh! I must have been working a lot. But I appreciate your comments--if you ever see this note.
great hub. One I will come back to another time, to re read x
Thanks, Brenda, :) And thanks for becoming my fan.
I've found beauty is most often perceived by others from high self-esteem. looks to me are a superficial quantity... what counts is how you treat others and that in turn raises your own self-esteem and that causes people to find you attractive... generally.
however it is true that people tend to have trends in what they find attractive and that can be incredibly diverse, which I think is great.
personally I find humor, intelligence and genius, with a tough of arrogance extremely attractive. I don't really have a physical criteria on what I think is attractive in a man, although I trend to old guys. dunno why, I just like them.
:)
Thanks, Ionn, for stopping by to read. I think you are on to something there with the self-esteem connection. Thinking something is so...makes it so. Yes, our creative abilities/minds are that powerful.... And thank heavens, yes, that attraction is incredibly diverse. It would be so boring if the opposite is true. I think what you see now is a reflection of our culture--beauty has becom commodified. You know the main reasons models need to be so anorexic is that they function as clothes hangers? lol! It's true--its the designer's choice.
Old guys, huh? hmmmmm. Can't say I follow you there (which is fine--more for you!). Old enough is good. :)
I saw the note! :-)
<--0-->
How beautifully written, no pun intended. Sometimes the longer a hub has been around it increases in value. I am so glad to have found this hub, subjects near and dear to my heart, inner beauty, depth, and perception. Great job on the presentation of a truly beautiful and important subject.
Neil, :) Good!
Emohealer--Thanks. This is one of my 'better' pieces. I don't always put so much into everything I write here, to be honest (informative articles are waaay easier, lol, and a FT job takes up much of my time/energy), but this was the exception. I am glad you liked it.
This piece is carefully thought out and accurate. I totally agree that everyone has their own idea of beauty. The media has a standard, but hardly any of us live up to that standard, or have any desire to. I loved this hub. Great work. I will be reading the rest of your work... right now.
Thanks, Davina! I appreciate the comment. The rest of my stuff isn't so, lol, carefully thought out, so to speak... haha. I write for a ft job and don't have that much time, so a lot of the other things are just factual pieces. But, thank you!
I read this earlier and thought I'd left a comment. Clearly something else caught my attention. Probably my daughter's silly puppy.
And so - I like to think (or maybe it's wishful thinking) that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. My partner thinks I'm beautiful yet I know I'm not. At least in any classical or even non-classical sense.
I'd say my heritage gave me an unusual look. And no, I don't have a poor self-image, I'm just honest ;)
By the same token, I think he's gorgeous. Are we each of the mind that the other is beautful because we hold each other in high regard? I certainly hope so. Though without the love, I'd still say he's got the most beautiful doe eyes I've ever seen on anyone.
A great piece, with a well thought out and equally well delivered perspective. And if that's you in your avatar, you're indeed a bonny woman :)
Thanks, FG, lol. So this one still gets readers, huh? :)
I really do believe there are many kinds of attractiveness, and that these things are not general in nature. I, for instance am really not attracted to very, very even featured people. I like handsome guys, but character must be included...that means in the features as well as the personality. And it is also very tied into intelligence for me.
I've seen your real pic, by the way, and already know you are a pretty woman. Or, if you want, you can say as I say about myself, lol, 'semi' pretty...to be modest and in all reality, honest! It works, :).
I like men that look like men - big and burly :) If they're also handsome fellas, I see that as a bonus. To boot, I prefer them to look as though they've enjoyed a party or two, which is pretty much what my partner, Simões, looks like :)
I agree on the character and I especially enjoy intelligence in a man. In most people to be honest. I'm not a fan of folks that act dumb, more so when they're far from it. A quirky sense of humor (in anyone) also works for me. And now I'm sounding demanding!
And I think I'll agree with you. I'm halfway ok ;)
Haha. The 1/2 OK was for MY semi-prettiness. But if ya wanna use it, OK, :) Does that "acting dumb" but not being it (in a female, even?) still exist? Bleck.
OK...the kinda weird thing I like to see in 'my' men (lolol), is scruffiness. Yeah, a few whiskers, messed up hair...I think they look better like that...comfortable.
Mighty Mom says:
13 months ago
Hi Lita, a most thoughtful and thought-provoking hub! You certainly nailed the essay question, "there's no accounting for taste" (also a chaqu'un son gout).
I'm sitting here pondering your opening statement. Beauty is its own kind of intelligence. I think I've decided that I believe that is true. For those who possess beauty possess a quality that not all humans have. Just like intellectual capacity,street smarts, hand-eye coordination, emotional intelligence and the like are types of intelligence that not all humans possess. With beauty comes a way of interacting with the world and having the world interact with you. Like it or not, beautiful people command reactions based solely on their perceived beauty.
Certain styles of beauty come and go, for sure. Personally, I wish I lived in Rubens' time when dimpled butts and ample thighs were considered beautiful! The 1920s flapper bears a striking resemblance to Twiggy of the 1960s and Kate Moss of the 1990s. Whereas the iconic Playboy Bunny doesn't change.
And yet, you so rightly point out that individual taste is extremely personal. And in the case of your friend with the petite, doe-eyed brunettes -- extremely FREUDIAN:-)!!!
Hope you get a lot of traffic here with lots of viewpoints expressed. GREAT Topic.