Beliefs vs. Reality
65Why?
Reality answers the answerable question, how?
Beliefs attempt to answer the unanswerable question, why?
The Outsider
I have only been on hubpages for just over a day and I had been reading over the forums for interesting conversations. The one that caught my eye was the "Atheism Rules!", thread.
I don't feel the need to discuss my personal beliefs because I see what it does when it doesn't agree with another set of beliefs. With that said, I would like to point out a couple misnomers that I have seen already, that I have also seen on other forums sites besides hubpages.
Off hand, I must say that atheism is very misunderstood. I was under the same impression for a long time about what atheism represented so I needed to do some research before I could really make sense of it.
From my understanding of an atheist, the expression that God does not exist, is almost an inside joke between atheist, one that I find rather amusing. Atheism does not discredit a belief of another persons "belief" in God. The disagreement is in a literal existance of God. Atheism also uses the term, which I think would be of sound principle in the atheism department, "God does not exist". I think a lot of misunderstanding could be cleared up to some extent if the atheist would say something more like, "a supernatural, non-human, gaint man, that you cannot see, does not exist."
For obvious reasons, saying God does not exist is offensive to those who believe in God, however it should not effect a persons strong belief in this supernatural God. I have seen this statement over and over again, which is "stop attacking me". I have seen some comments that I view in good sarcasm, but can see why some people take it as an insult. I understand that a person belief in God is as much a part of them, as their toes are to their feet, so anything said against God is considered a statement againts the person who holds the belief.
From a bipartisan postion, if you will, I do not see any direct attacks againts a "believer", however in retaliation, or bruised ego of sorts, the believer comes back and says something astute and for lack of a better term, ignorant. Now, I do not believe there will ever been fair treatment between a believer and a non-believer but it is pretty ironic that the ones who are supposed to be living up to the standards of their religion seem to be the ones who are also dishing out the "venom". Of course atheist have their hand in this too, the difference is that atheist is in general and considering thier intellect for worldy things, I see it as sarcasim at it's finest and I always apreciate good sarcasim when I see it; while the believers make their comments direct and with the intention of hurting the other. I think is a huge difference.
Once again, I am not a liberty to discuss my personal beliefs because I have already seen what some people are doing to other hubbers on the basis of their beliefs and with obvious reasons, it's innapropriate. To think, this is what a new hubber sees right off.
To be fair, I understand why beleivers feel this way and I don't make judgements about a person according to their beliefs, I make them according to their actions so I do not side with believers or non- believers and during my one day on a hubpages forum, mostly just reading, it is quite the learning experience. It really is giving me some insight to what people are like.
I hope in the future I will be able to make valuable contributions to the forums, without the threat of being one of those people who gets "attacked" for having an opinion. To be more honest, I guess, I find it sorta hard to participate in the religous forum because with my couple of meager post, I managed to also be "attacked" and don't feel it was warranted but I suppose that is just the way it goes.
I look forward to writing more on hubpages, making some friends, having civil debates, learning new things, and of course making some money.
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Comments
Interesting start and welcome to Hub Pages! Good luck here!
Hi, interesting hub. To play "devil's advocate" (and I fully appreciate the irony) I would suggest that many times when I observe an argument take place, I wouldn't label the sarcasm some atheists use as harmless or witty - often times these statements are absolutely meant to cut down, ridicule, and mock the believer and not just the beliefs, and that certainly doesn't help with what's always a volatile subject to begin with.
Just my two pennies' worth of thoughts :) Welcome to Hubpages!
Hello Jerry G2, I do understand that some atheist also say things with the intention of cutting down the believer but I can still appreciate the irony as well. Thanks for your two pennies of thought, I will add them to my pennie jar.
Thank you :)
Hello Bard of Ely,
Thank you for stopping by and warm welcome. I went to read some of your articles - and I am your fan for life :)
Wow lady, no offense but some of the things you have said here are a little odd.
Sandra, you are the first person to comment on my first hub! You always will be special to me, my sister in crime :)
James, bring it up buddy, don't be shy :)
well thanks Milla, my sister in crime. lol. I love you!!!!
James...what was exactly odd about what she wrote?
Love you too Sandra! :)
Milla,
Don't worry you can always air your opinions. Just be open to others too and in the bargain we all would learn to see from different perspectives. Life is continuous process of learning and evolving. Welcome to hub pages.
Thank you for your support, advice and warm welcome Countrywomen :)
Hi Milla,
thanks for your thoughts, which always get read here on hubpages.
Nice hub and great one to start with. I thought it was odd that you got that odd comment! Welcome to hubpages.
I think that all flavors of people exist on both sides of the discussion. There are strong, pigheaded believers who will cut the head of anyone who doesn’t share their belief. And there are evenly strong non-believers who will ridicule and mock anyone of faith.
Welcome to HubPages :)
Benson, thank you so much for reading and for you comment too. I look forward to learning and reading what you have to offer as well.
Jewels, I heard about you. lol. Don't worry they were good things. Can I call you my sister in crime too? lol. Thanks for taking the time to read my first hub.
Ananta65, I am well endowed to understand what you mean. Consider however what it is to be atheist. What seems like mockery to anyone of faith is a conundrum.
Hey pretty girl, you've been quite busy here! Good job, keep it up :)
How about posting another hub? ;)
To me atheism is basically the same as being ignorant. I don’t know. I’m not sure there is a god and I’m not sure there isn’t. For some however, atheism is just another religion: there is no god and anyone who believes otherwise is severely deranged. Atheists can be just as fanatic and just as moderate as religious people in my experience.
Hmmmm, you think so Ananta65? Most atheists I've had interactions with are very learned and intelligent. They have very good points about their belief and yes they're staunch and dig their heals in. It's all very entertaining don't you think? Makes that swinging pendulum wonder where it's going to go next.
Faith and Ignorance - now there's something to write about - Any takers?
And Milla - yes please - I'd love a sister in crime.
wow...this LOOKS and sounds a bit of a cool chick...ohhh...hello milla...
Ignorant in a good way, Jewels. Atheism is not the same as stupidity. Many of the atheists I know are in fact intelligent. Yours truly isn’t exactly dumb either. But when it comes to the existence of a god, I’m completely ignorant. I can’t prove a god exists, nor can I prove that a god doesn’t exist. So I simply don’t know.
Faith is – I think – what people need who can’t deal with being ignorant.
Ananta- I think what you are saying is close to being agnostic (neither prove or disprove God's existence)
It is, countrywomen :) You're right
Hi Milla, welcome to HubPages, I hope you have fun writing in here :)
Ananta - OK, understand from that standpoint.
Wow! You've been busy while I was away!
@Misha: Yes ma dear, posted already,
@Ananta, Jewels, and Countrywomen: I too think that Ananta is agnostic. I think I sorta like his approach. Sorry if I stepped on anybody's feet.
@pylos: Welcome. I've been expecting you.
@Princessa: Thank you for the warm welcome, yes I do have fun here already!
Hi Milla,
Thank you for sharing your observations and insights, my friend.
*smiles*
Hi Terence,
Thank you for stopping by :)
Iam sure you haven't stepped on anybody's feet. But even if you stepped on anybody's feet these guys wouldn't mind it since you are so cute...LOL
Aww, thank you Countrywomen :) It does matter a lot when it comes from such a beautiful women as yourself!
Hi Milla,
I accidentally stumbled across your hub enroute to reading your comment on the shortage of natural resources. I found your respond interesting to read. Welcome Aboard!
hubby7
Hi Milla,
Yes, the religious forums are a pretty good place to stay out of. There are some pretty intense people in there, and well as a few that love to get in there and stir them up.
Just write what you think, be genuine, and and you'll find that the People on hubPages are a fantastic group of people.The quality of writing, humour, wit, and repartee are amazing.
And don't worry about the few nutters - just ignore them. (Although you'll probably attract a lot more than I do :-) )
Oh, and I have no qualms about sharing my religious beliefs: I'm a Pastafarian - a follower of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Perhaps someday HE will also touch you with his Noodly Appendage.
http://flyingspaghettimonster.com/
Cheers, Eric G.
Hi Hubby7, thank you for stopping by and welcoming me :)
Hi Eric,
I feel honored now when you visited my hub! Yes, people here are fantastic, I regret I did not come here earlier, when Misha told me about this place for the first time - I could have started with this fun much earlier.
And thank you, I am trying not to worry about nutters. And if they teach how to ignore idiots, may be I should join Pastafarians, too?
Kisses, Milla
Hi. I think your hub should be made mandatory reading BEFORE someone is allowed access to the (religion) forums. When I first arrived on hubpages, my curiosity drew me in. Well, I don't hide my faith in Christ, but kept it low key for a while. I found myself "barraged and belittled" by both sides of the spectrum.
Now I realise that I don't have to take it so seriously, and have some fun with it. And your refference to sarcasm is similar to my appeoach. I like to throw it in when someone is being "stupid"
My aim in these hubs and forums was to actually help others who are seeking truth/faith, or at least contribute positively. (Not sure I'm getting to those hubbers ).
Hi Aka-dj,
Thank you much, I appreciate your good opinion on my hub. And I do agree to you, it all becomes much more fun if we stop taking it seriously :)
Welcome Milla.
Some folks just can't seem to comprehend that it's OK to agree to disagree. That's when you start running into willful ignorance and that’s something there just isn’t any way to break through.
I don’t bother much with the forums. Too much hostility and hostility is unproductive.
I applaud your apparent impartiality and look forward to reading more from you.
Excellent first hub. I have always felt it more important for people to know your beliefs through your deeds, not your words.
A person can claim they are anything, yet the proof is always in the action taken.
I personally feel there is a level of faith involved with any position taken in the realm of religion. If you believe there is no God, then you have faith in that position. This type if faith is very similar to that of a believer in the Almighty.
The assertion that faith is “what people need who can’t deal with being ignorant” put forth by Ananta65, is also an uninformed view point.
Hi CWB,
I appreciate your appreciation of my work :). Yes, I mostly stay away from forums, but sometimes I do feel like going there and teasing Mark and such. It can be fun, too :D
Hi Audacious,
Thank you much for your good opinion. Yes, I agree that deeds are much more indicative than words. I don't agree that atheism is a faith though, I seem to maintain it is a lack of faith. And Ananta is just agnostic :)
Thanks Milla for publishing this hub....a very interesting dialogue has transpired here as a result.
Don't know that I have anything original to share since I agree with much of what's already been posted.....as a Christian, my viewpoint is believers indeed need to walk the talk. We are all human and blow it at times however and when this happens, we need to be humble enough to admit it and make efforts at making amends when this occurs.
I have a brother in law who is an atheist and my sister is agnostic and both are intelligent people, my sister being extremely well educated. Although I don't have the level of secular education she does, I'm far from being ignorant, idiotic or unwise. My sister and I have conversations on occassion, but the door has to be opened by her for us to even go there.
I've visited the religious forums a few times (it's been quite a while though) and left a comment or two which thankfully, I have not had any negative responses to which I'm aware of. By most "from the other side," they were ignored. To be honest though, those who continually feel they have to debate and debate and debate and get so defensive - regardless of which side of the issue they align with, I question how much of it stems from pride. Prideful people seem to always have a need to be right and have the last word. (None of us are always immune to pride either). However, when a dialogue is shared which contains people just sharing their knowledge, understanding, opinions, objections, experiences etc in a civil and respectable way, we can indeed learn from one another - which is good and can be a life enriching thing.
Coldwarbaby's comment pretty much echos my opinion on the matter but I had to add my own two cents to add to your collection!
"For obvious reasons, saying God does not exist is offensive to those who believe in God, however it should not effect a persons strong belief in this supernatural God."
I think this is probably the most profound statement in your hub. I am not in the least offended by someone who says they don't believe in God. They don't think they believe in God. etc. What i find ... perplexing is what I have heard called the militant agnostic, who says, in effect ... "Because I don't know ... You can't know ... and I am offended at your claim that you know something I don't."
To allow anyone to offend you is a choice, and choosing to become offened by a non-belief in something is counterproductive. You make an excellent point.
BDazzler- it is a perplexing statement "because I don't know...You can't know...and I am offended at your claim that you know something I don't."
I think what really shows in a statement like that has to do with their ideas of God. Now, to me any idea or lack of one is fine but I will say, and I am pretty sure someone wont like it, but consider that an agnostic doesn't really know what to believe, it would be wise to understand that often by both parties, believers and non-believers alike arbor some resentment which puts them in a possition that will never get any answers.
In my mind an agnostic has put the idea or their idea of God above all such nonsense and they are basically asking, why should I believe you?
However it works out, I myself, am possitive that whatever happens will happen and there is no point in arguing over perspectives but I do believe that everyone is pleading for understanding for their possitions or beliefs, some are just more unattractive than others and for obvious reason.
Thanks for stopping by BDazzler.
Dear Kristenekv, I am so sorry I didn't see your post. I feel horrible now because you said you had been ignored on the forums and look, here I was ignoring you. It wasn't on purpose I promise you that.
You are right, pride is a terrible thing. I personally take pride in being humilated, but I don't take pride in making other people feel bad but it does happen. I am not certain that people feel the need to be right, but there are many that do, I honestly believe they just want to be recognized, heard and understood.
I could only guess that it hurts your feeling when you say something and no one replies. There is a saying about stuff like that, so you can be proud to know that when someone doesn't respond it is because they agree, and for people like yourself who are sweet and candy, well what would a person want to hurt you for?
Sharing is caring and don't be afraid to say what you feel like saying no matter what people say to you in return or lack of return thereof because the way I see it. The world is full of pride not just me, not just you, not just the overly prideful.
It is good to be proud of who you are and what you believe, and if I must say it, be proud in the Lord.
I love you and I am sorry I missed your post, I do hope you will come back to know you were not ignored.
Milla
Atheism is a belief in itself. It's a belief in the non-existence of God. You don't need religion to believe in God either. If someone tells me they're an atheist or mormon, I really don't care until they start pelting me with their beliefs so I'd conform to theirs which is when I start to avoid them.
True Writer Rider, I really don't care either even when they try to start pelting me with their beliefs to conform. I just say, "sure, if that is what you believe".
If they aren't hurting no one and I can see they are just trying be the best person or do the right thing (no matter how ridiculous some may be) then I just let it be and accept them anyways. No harm, no foul. :)
Milla, so sorry it took so long to read. Great piece. You are so right when you point out many of these things. I try to keep out of the religious area of the hubs because of the attacks. I get enough of that from the in-laws :)
Yes, RGraf, I also try to stay out of the religous area but deep down I just know that each and every one just really wants what is good and I think that while I may have my disagreements, that nothing should ever come between a man and his God.
Thank you for reading!
sandra rinck says:
14 months ago
Nice hub! You should be prapared to be called names anyways. Other hubbers will more than likey try and discredit everything you do if you don't specify your beliefs especially on the religion forum.
I think you are wise though. Keep it up and welcome to hubpages.