Buprenorphine, Suboxone or Subutex – Which Do You Need?
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If you are addicted to opiates, do you need to take buprenorphine, Suboxone or Subutex – and what's the difference between these anyway?
Buprenorphine is an opiate, actually it's a partial opiate agonist (kind of like an opiate that doesn’t work that well) and it is the active "opiate" ingredient in both Suboxone and Subutex. Subutex and Suboxone are the only 2 FDA approved medications containing the opiate buprenorphine for use in the treatment of addiction.
Suboxone and Subutex – What's the Difference?
- Both are pills that you take sublingually (let dissolve under the tongue).
- Subutex is a pill that contains only one medicinal ingredient – buprenorphine
- Suboxone is a pill that contains 2 medicinal ingredients – buprenorphine and Naloxone – in a 4-1 ratio.
Why are they different?
When you start taking buprenorphine, you will likely start with a couple of days of induction. A couple of days during which time your body is growing accustomed to the switch from your drug of abuse to the buprenorphine, and during which time your doctor will be adjusting the dosage to get optimal results.
During this induction phase, Subutex is often used. Some doctors prefer to use only Suboxone from the start.
After the induction phase you will be given Suboxone, which is a mixture of 2 drugs, buprenorphine and Naloxone, and you will stay on Suboxone until you decide to stop buprenorphine therapy entirely. Subutex is used only in the beginning (or in some cases for people with unique medical needs).
Why Does Suboxone Contain Naloxone?
One of the main reasons why people prefer Suboxone to methadone is that Suboxone can be prescribed in a take home dose of several weeks or a month, while methadone must be taken under supervision in a clinic each day.
One of the main reasons why Suboxone can be taken home is because it contains Naloxone, and that Naloxone makes it a lot tougher to abuse.
Naloxone is an opiate antagonist. If you were to take only Naloxone, you would not be able to feel the effects of any opiate type drugs. If you took a dose of Naloxone and then took heroin – you would not feel the heroin.
Suboxone is taken sublingually. When the pill is dissolved under the tongue – the buprenorphine in the pill is absorbed into the body, but the Naloxone is not. Naloxone just doesn't work very well sublingually.
If you take Suboxone as directed, sublingually, the Naloxone does not work, and you only get the effects of the opiate buprenorphine.
But
If you try to abuse Suboxone by injecting it, then the Naloxone is completely activated, and will block all of the effects of the buprenorphine. If you inject Suboxone, the Naloxone will fill the opiate receptors in the brain and not only will you not get high – you will go into an immediate and full state of opiate withdrawal.
So
The Naloxone in Suboxone makes it less likely abused, and since you probably won't abuse it, there is no reason why you can't take home a few weeks supply at a time.
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Hello, I just read a posting you had written about how you were considering taking suboxone. Please take my advice on this as a person who has experienced this and is going through now as I type. Fuck the drug companies and whatever bullshit they try to tell you about taking suboxone longterm. Use it as a taper to come off oxy's. That is it. Taking two mgs everytime you start to feel sick for a week should be sufficient. It is a long lasting opiate so if you have a mild oxy addiction only take it when you physically feel sick then get off it as fast as possible. That is the way this drug was initially meant to be prescribed. No one ever told me that. Now the drug companies are marketing this as a longterm solution. It is not. Believe me you will feel good taking this drug for about six months, after that like any other drug tolerance will set in and you will need to take more and more of it just to get out of bed. No more taking one pill and feeling "normal" for two days. This process will happen fast and you will just continue to have to take more and more and more. Withdrawing from this shit is absolute hell. It will tkae you about six weeks just to not be in constant chilly bone grinding pain coupled with wild crying mood swings and terrible depressed thoughts. You will find yourself doing the dishes and crying uncontrollably for no reason. It is hell!!! After that you basically will feel numb for another month. No enjoyment from food, sex, whatever it is that blows your hair back, just gone. Nothing. I couldn't take that second month. With the alienating the people closest to you. Not being able to work worth a fuck. Gone. So I sit here tonight wondering how the fuck I am going to get off these pills that cost me 500 a month, that cost me food from my kids mouth. I am thinking about doing a reversal and going on oxys again for twenty days and then tapering with suboxone the way people are supposed too. We will see. The longer you take sub the more magnified all these things will become. If you can quit taking them now. Quit taking them now. Best of luck to you. Feel free to email me anytime I would be courious to know how you are doing with all of it.\ Sean
Sean is 100% percent correct i was lied to as well i used herion for 20 years but i have come to a stage in my life where i don't use nor i don't want to use anything. i CAN'T BELEIVE IT I HAVE DONR ALOT OF WORK THOUGH. Sean everything this man says is right well said Sean.
Just quit...
ITS NOT THAT EASY DOOSH
Jumper should "Just quit" breathing.
I disagree with all of y'all...Getting off the subs for me was ez as cake! I was abusing heroin for about 2yrs...and I went on Subutex for about 2 weeks, then switched over to Suboxone. I was on the Suboxone for about 1.5yrs and i just slowly tapered off, started at 24mgs...then went down to about 20, then to 16, then to 12 etc...Till i was all the way down to about .5mgs..The key is to TAKE YOUR TIME TAPERING! !!!!! Its not something you do in a month or two...It takes time to get off of them. If you take your time, its really easy. No pain whatsoever. On a 1-10 scale, 10 being day one off of full blown heroin addiction...Suboxone/Subutex withdrawal was less than a 1. I swear its easy if you do it correctly.
drembi you need to go to your doctors and ask for a course of antidepressants. This is supposed to help nothing else.
WOW!!!! Ok, I am on painpills for an injury, which the VA only seems to want to write meds for me and send me on my way. I can't get out of bed without some meds and I hate it. It's like living until the next dose. I also take care of my girlfriend who is ill with lupus and also has back injuries, just had surgery. I am now concerned about these meds to come off the pain meds, as I did not know that suboxone and subutex were long term, nor did I know that they were hard to come off of themselves!!!
thanks
peace
dawn
WOW!!!! Ok, I am on painpills for an injury, which the VA only seems to want to write meds for me and send me on my way. I can't get out of bed without some meds and I hate it. It's like living until the next dose. I also take care of my girlfriend who is ill with lupus and also has back injuries, just had surgery. I am now concerned about these meds to come off the pain meds, as I did not know that suboxone and subutex were long term, nor did I know that they were hard to come off of themselves!!!
thanks
peace
dawn
2yrs on heroin and i couldn´t do it anymore!! dont get me wrong i love that shit, but i´m poor as fuck and always have been, so i spent half of the time withdrawing...so i had to quit!!! on and off for about another year, last april i finally stopped, i started my treatment with suboxone because in portugal (where i live) subutex wasn´t available cuz people started shootin´it up, a couple of months ago the docs started prescribing subutex again cuz it is much much cheeper, and i have been using it for about 5 months now. it´s just another drug don´t let them trick you, and it is hard to get off, you have to be careful and only take as much as you need to feel confortable! i´m nothing but a fuckin´junkie so some days i only a quarter of a pill but then the nex day a take about 2 or 3 pill of subutex, it is not as ´good´ as junk but fuck it´s better than nothin!! i had never been sober for this long but i´m sure it won´t last...in no time i´ll be back at my old fuckin´ life.....best of luck for all of you....p.s forgive my writting, i´m portugese
fell free to email me. i would actually like it... monica.cndido@gmail.com
Sorry for the long post but my experience may help someone:
Last summer (2008), I had been on pain killers for almost 10 years for chronic pain but was on the max doses and building up a tolerance fast. I went to an addiction specialist and went on Suboxone which I've been on for over a year now and will probably have to use it until they figure out a cure for the pain (FMS). Suboxone handles the pain well but I've had two problems with it. First, I was getting really dizzy with nausea which I finally figured out it happens on doses over about 3mg (it takes about 3 days for me to see changes in side effects after changing Suboxone dosage). Second, although the pain has been managed well, my motivation and ability to experience even the slightest pleasure has remained rock bottom since getting off regular pain killers. It's a huge challenge each day to do even the simplest tasks like get up and shower. Unfortunately, I'm stuck because I've tried every alternative for the chronic pain and even switched back to pain killers a couple of months ago for one week to see if the tolerance I built up had decreased but no luck (my tolerance was as high as when I stopped regular pain killers). Suboxone/Subutex don't give you the dopamine high that regular pain killers and related drugs give you, so I'm pretty sure what happened with my motivation/pleasure is that once I stopped regular pain killers which artificially cranked my dopamine, my dopamine levels tanked and have stayed there on Suboxone. I've talked with some doctors close to the research and although they've done brain scans of heavy duty drug users (with a follow up a year after stopping drugs) show dopamine returns to normal even with heavy addicts after about a year off of drugs, there's no research to see if Suboxone somehow prevents dopamine levels returning which is what I suspect since it's been over a year for me so my dopamine (motivation and pleasure) should have returned to normal.
For me, I have not seen any need for raising my Suboxone dose so I'm not building up a tolerance like some have posted. As far as withdrawals from Suboxone after long term use, I can't say since I'm probably stuck on it indefinitely (no choice).
Hope this helps someone and sorry again for the long post...
I just started suboxone 2 -3 weeks ago after havoing my knee replaced and letting the doc's get me strung out on o/c
s. I've kep my does down and I'nd doind 6 mg/day right now. I want off this shiti nt way as it's main selling point for mme (no cravings) never has worked. Now I'm scared of the detox. Any comments, suyggestions? I'm using an addiction doctor for this shit who seems be somewhat cool, but you knvwer know....
Is subutex any easier to kick than soboxne?
Here is the deal in plain English, and I should know. Like s-roberts posted above, Suboxone is not met for long term use. I've been on dope, Oxy 80's, Fentynal patches & Lollipops (800 mc's), Roxi 30's, Morphine (80mg Kadian) and everything else opiate, and for the last 5 years been back & forth on Suboxone. I too was lied to from several Suboxone Doctors, one actually told me "you'll have to be on this for the rest of your life". Exactly like s-roberts said, after like 6 months you'll be in big trouble, the biggest problem being Depression, which effects 100% of your life in the worse negative way you could ever imagine. Then I found a new place, a pain management clinic, I explained my history and they were shocked, not at my usage, but at the prior Suboxone Docs I had seen. The Doc there went as far to say those Docs should be arrested. Anyway, they gave me 5 8mg Suboxone, yup just 5, and yes indeed that is all you need. Oh and don't listen to the idiots that say you have to be in full with drawl before taken Subs, that is 100% false. 10 to 12 hours after last Oxy Contin fix and or Heroin fix is fine. I have done this well over 20 times and I have it down to a science, because I use to switch to Subs then go back on OC's and so forth and I did this all the time. Though I don't insist that anyone try this, it is very, very dangerous and it took me a very long time to figure out how to do it properly without getting extremely sick. But I do know that their are legit reasons for wanting to do so, namely extreme pain, which the Subs do not work for at all. They will work for pain for a little while but slowly but surely that effect will wear off. So I would say Suboxone is great for someone who has zero pain and is just a recreational user, but if you have a bad back or neck pain or what have you then they are not so good. OK enough about that shit, lets get back to the REAL SUBOXONE REGIMENT. This is how the new place had me do it and it worked like a charm I swear to you. Fuck those Docs that say anything different, they are either one of two things, They just don't know the truth because they believe what they are told by the Drug Company (who are liars and just want money and lots of it) or they know the truth and they are just money hungry liars themselves who deserve to be in prison. Here is the way to do it and it works, not only for me, but many other people I know have done this also and it worked for all of them too. 5 Suboxone 8mg pills is all you need, trust me it is all you need, anymore then that it gets harder and harder to get off. General rule of thumb when using Suboxone, the longer you are on it, the harder it is to get off ! They had me take a 1/2 of tab the first day, (you'll be feeling way better in about 30 to 50 minutes), then the other half later that night, (late as possible). The 2nd day of treatment do the same, half morning, then half at night (make it later then the night before). OK, by now the shit is in your system and you'll be feeling even better. Day 3 do the same, again though take it a bit later each day, in other words spread your doses out farther each day by at least an hour or 2. OK now we are at day 4 of your new life and it should feel like a new life, but DO NOT let the way you feel trick you into thinking that these Suboxone are some kind of miracle pill and want to keep taking them, taking them any longer then what I'm telling you here would be a very, very bad mistake and trust me, you will regret it. Truth of the matter is that it is a miracle drug, BUT ONLY and ONLY if taken very and I mean VERY SHORT TERM. Please trust me, I've been down every single possible road with these Suboxone and every Opiate known to man. OK so back to day 4, Now this day DO NOT take a half in the morning, SKIP it and wait until night time, about the same time you took it the night before. (By the way, you should write down every time you dose so to keep track and not make any mistakes)On day 5 do exactly the same as day 4, just one half of a tab at night time. OK day 6 is here, Now break the last Suboxone pill in half and then each half in half again. (are you starting to get the picture) On day 6 take a 1/4 of a tab at around mid day, then another 1/4 at night. Day 7 just take a 1/4 at night time and that's it. Now you should have just a 1/4 of 1 Suboxone left. Day 8 DO NOT take ANYTHING. On day 9 you should still feel great, also DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING, wait until the 10th day and take the last 1/4 pill at night time, unless your feeling sick then take it during the day. You will then be just fine. You NEVER and I repeat NEVER take a whole Suboxone at once, it is no good for you, another rule of thumb when taking Suboxone is LESS IS BETTER, actually, less is WAAAAY BETTER, you get better effect with small doses. Any Doctor that tells you to take a whole tablet at once is plain and simply WRONG, let alone a whole in the AM and another whole in the PM, like most of them tell you to do, that's exactly what they want you to do, so not only do the pills go faster and he gets his money for another visit, you will also not be able to get off of them as easy and hence even more visits. Sub Docs love this, lets face it, they are in it to make money off of addicts and they look at you just as that, as addict, someone who is beneath them and one they have no problem what so ever taken advantage of. Plus they already know you have the money, because your not spending it on street drugs now that he has you on Subs. In other words you are the Suboxone Doctors slave, and that's just how he wants it. Let me say that not all Docs are like this but many are, most of those ones just don't know any better and it is not really their fault, but some do no better and they should be thrown into an Iron Maiden. The word about this short term treatment is spreading and hopefully soon Sub Docs will not be so quick to throw every person that walks in their office into HELL !
Wow I had forgotten I had even written anything on this website, weird coming across it now. No doubt about it the naloxone in suboxone will ultimately (within about 6 months for me) leave you feeling very depressed. That chemical was never meant to be ingested day in and day out. It really does mess up your dopamine and serotonin production. Shortly after writing this post I read about the naloxone poisoning and I talked to my docotor who immediately switched me to subutex. After about a three weeks of a strange dilated pupil kind of feeling (from detoxing off the naloxone which is an opioid in itself) I starting feeling "normal" again. No more depression!!! I have been taking 8mg of subutex now for about three months and it really really has made a big difference. The drug company that makes this is afraid people will abuse the bupe, which is why the insist on adding the naloxone. They try and spin it like the only way naloxone gets in your bloodstream is if you shoot it. That is absolute bullshit. Believe me if you are taking suboxone and are fortunate enough to switch you will no what I am talking about. They also now have a generic bupe out which is only 4$ a pill. This makes a huge impact on my cash flow situation. All in all I think if you must use anything at all (heroin,oxys) bupe isn't near as detrimental to your health as boxone. Good night and good luck.
if anyone ever wants to email me and discuss issues pertaining to the above mentioned forum my email is
s-roberts27@live.com
Hey John,
Hopefully you see this. So you just straight switched from subs to regular opiates with no problem? Then you did a true (five day) detox off of those? I have long wanted to try this but unfortunalty I have moved from Denver to a little buckwheat town and I have no contacts. I went to the VA and tried to explain my 500 dollar a month situation to a MD there (fuck you Dr. Seillison) and was met with total ambivalence. Your post does give me hope it is ironic that the solution seems to lie within the problem itself.
Yea I switched back & forth many times. But not til like 24 to 48 hours after last sub dose. Yea I detoxed of Subs short term, but I meant with just 5 Subs (8mg) but over a period of 10 days. If you start feeling WD's then extend the sub treatment a bit longer, but at this time just a crumb a day, 0.5 mg a day for like 3 more days then only every other day for 4 days, then 0.5 mg every 4 days twice. Everyone is different and so this is why I says some ppl may need to taper off a bit longer then 10 to 15 days.
Actually, get this, if you get some adderall it's even easier, you can take a half tab of Sub on day 1 then another half tab the next night, then next night a 1/4 then skip a day, then a 1/4, skip 2 days, 1/4 skip 3 days. Then break the 1/4's in half so they are 0.5mg and roll with them 1 every other for 2, then every other for 3 days, then go to like a 0.5mg crumb every 5 days for 2 then almost anyone should be good that way, especially while taking Adderall throughout, or at least the days you have no energy, which is everyday for me, they also help very well for depression and it's not unheard of for them to be prescribed for just that, though they are mainly for ADD, but all it really is is speed. Another thing with these Suboxone is, everyone thinks you need to have it everyday your detoxing, not true. After I'd say 3 days, you barely need any for a few days or more.
Many ppl are going this way now. 4 mg a day for 2 or 3 days, then 1/4 for 2 or 3 days and then stop and absolutely do not take anymore until and if you get WD symptoms, then repeat, never taking any until if and when WD's kick in, it may take around 7 days b4 you need a dose, then each time you do this if and when WD's kick in they will be further and further away until eventually your off.
Here's the deal, not many ppl know about the tremendous half life bupe has (the amount of time the active drug stays in your system) it clings to your opiate receptors like an MMA fighter puts someone in a rear naked choke, long, hard & strong. So after the 1st few days their is really no need to be taken the crap everyday, because the receptors are already blocked and can't be blocked anymore, hence not only wasting the subs, but you'll be getting more and more addicted to it. Once ppl are on Sub for say like over a month or 2, and taking 1 or 2 whole tabs daily, it's too late, it would be way easier just coming off the dope then the Subs at that point.
This is why short term is the only way this drug should be taken, (for opiate withdrawl) or it really shouldn't be taken at all. I say for opiates cuz some ppl take it for pain and if it works for them then that's great, but that's a whole different story. I personally don't think anyone should be on Suboxone for pain, those cases should be dealt with Subutex.
Because yea I think your right dude, they say the Naloxone is Suboxone only gets in your system if you shoot or snort it. I'm not buying it, not one bit. I have had exactly the same prob as you many times, depression like a bitch and I'm positive it's the Naloxone, not the Bupe. The Bupe itself (Subutex) is actually a strong opiate but at the same time it partially blocks the opiate receptors. While the Naloxone (in Suboxone) Fully blocks the opiate receptors, therefore screws with your seretonin levels much differently. Because if I let the Sub melt under my tongue and let all the juices sit in my mouth for 10 to 15 minutes and then spit the shit out I remember that I would feel way better mentally after a while, versus swallowing all that crap. I don't buy the Naloxone only gets in if you shoot or snort it crap one bit. That crap also gives me and tons of ppl Migraine Headaches like a MF'er.
Well any info on whats better: suboxone or subutex?? I was a nurse who abused opiates( percocets, vicodin etc..)Went to jail and lost my license for writing my own scripts!! Got tired of the shit, spending all my money and time hunting pills to get rid of WD's, dont get high anymore, tolerance to high. I went to treatment center Oct 2008 and was put on 24 mg suboxone a day and I stayed on that for 10 months but I weaned myself down to half a sub a day, the Dr never cut my dose down (CRAZY) then my insurance wouldnt cover it anymore so I went off of them and started using painkillers again. Well I went back to clinic today and I was put back on, but they put me on subutex. I dont know anything about subutex except that it doesnt have naloxone in it. My doc said subutex is a generic for suboxone. I know thats not right. I asked the pharmacist and she said NO. So let me get to the point.. Anyone with any knowledge about subutex and or suboxone and which is better, Please email me. I would like to hear from anyone who knows about these meds and who is going through the same fucked up shit that I am. Email me at jenn46168@yahoo.com Thanks for any help.. Jen FUCKED UP IN INDY GO COLTS 14-0
queenie says:
9 months ago
Do none of them! you will want to die when you try to get off them