Did We As Christians Elect Obama? Does he owe us a 'Thank You'?
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Did Christians assist Obama into his new job?
Before you read this hub, please be advised that this is my opinion, and that's all it is. This is only what I feel about what is going on in our country and why. I am not saying anything in this is fact. You have been warned. If you read further, it is your choice.
Many Christians have been praying for a very long time about this election. This presidential election was one that we all knew was so very important. And, for Christians, they wanted what God knew was best for our precious country. So, we prayed that God's will be done in this election. As Christians strive to be what God wants us to be, we may not be able to foresee what we are praying for. So, did we pray Obama into office?
Christians across this nation who wanted to learn the facts about those running for office studied and researched and looked for the answers.....the real answers. Not answers that you can get by flipping on a TV set as most all media is bias. We seek the truth. It's necessary in finding out the facts before we made a decision as who to cast our votes for.
As as we found out the truth about the candidates, it was not a hard decision. For many, it was a choice of the lesser of the 2 evils. Neither presidential candidate stood directly in line with God's Word. But one did stand way away from it. That was Obama. So, we made our minds up to vote for the lesser of the evils. I do not know many who would have chosen McCain as their first choice of candidates for President of our great country. He certainly would have not have been my choice. But, I know many who would never have chosen Obama as he stands for so many things Christians do not.
I realize that Bush could have made a lot of different decisions and in doing things he did hurt the Republican party. This enabled Obama to run on the 'Change' format. A lot of people just wanted someone besides Bush in the White House, and feeling McCain was like Bush, they voted for Obama. Not because they believe in what he does, they just didn't want more of the things Bush did.
Christians across the nation were praying and fasting for God's will to be done in this election. Recognizing the importance of it, many more were involved in this election than ever had been involved before.
Praying for God's will, many felt that they were praying for Obama to lose. Knowing so much about him and what he believes in and the things he has done, Christians could not see why he would be the best decision for America.
Obama the same as the Pharaoh? And we the same as the Children of Israel?
But, did we ever stop to think that what's good for America might be a turning back to God? Did we ever stop to think we might very well be praying Obama into the White House? Well, please stop and think now.......
God knows what is best for us, and that is to be in the center of His will. So, do you honestly feel that's where America is right now? The answer is a resounding "NO!" We have never been further from where God wants us.
He has held His Hand over us protecting us for so long. And what have we done to show Him how much we love and appreciate Him? Make killing babies legal, make it normal for people to live in adultery, make it ok to call witches and wicca and Scientology a religion that is recognized, accept things He explicitly says is wrong as right, churches are shrinking by the day. Why would He keep protecting us? We are all about self self self. We do not worship Him as a nation as we did when we were so blessed. That is why we are not being blessed as a nation any longer.
So, that brings me to the point of this hub. I believe that God allowed Obama to be elected to bring us back where we need to be. Just as He allowed the Children of Israel to go through trials and tribulations because He loved them so much, He may be doing the same thing for us for our own good.
The Bible says that who He loves He chastens. We have turned away from God as a nation and it's time we turn back to Him.
Both sets of my grandparents went through the Great Depression. I have heard many stories about it as a result. But one thing both sides will tell you is that the churches were full. Why? Because it took something bad to open the eyes of the American people.
Since the Depression, we have gotten so full of ourselves and feel so self-sufficient that we live our lives as though we do not need Christ. And we are sorely wrong. And I believe that that truth is shortly going to be revealed to us.
We may need Obama to be our president to bring us back to God because with him as president, it very well may separate the believers from the non-believers. And I feel that it will show us how much we need God back in our country and in our lives.
If God didn't love us, He would not go to the trouble of bringing us back to Him. I pray that we open our eyes to Him and also to the way our nation is living now. It's time we do make a 'change'! A change for Christ! Only then can be we in His will the way we ought to be, and only then will we be a blessed nation.
If we were to get back to a nation that is in the center of God's will, can you imagine the blessings He would pour out on us? But, it's up to us. What will we do? We know we are not where we belong with God. We need to change our ways now. We need to love and serve Him, not ourselves, not money, but God. Only then will we be a fruitful nation.
I feel God will open the eyes of so many with Obama as president and the many ways we have left Him. Obama's beliefs go so far away from Christ. Will we make a stand for Christ? Will we be the witnesses we should be? Will we be strong enough to stand against the things that leaders do who go against Christ? We do have the strength! Because greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world! We need to embrace God and His strength.
Just as God allowed the Children of Israel to be under the Pharaoh in slavery and for them to wonder around in a circle for 40 years, God may be allowing us to wonder for the next 4 years. The Children of Israel realized during that time where they belonged and were lead into the promised land. What will we do? Will we glorify Him? Or will we be weak and follow leaders that are not of God? We cannot follow laws that go against the Bible. We belong to God, not this world.
This is just a dress-rehearsal for our eternal life. But we need to learn to get our parts right. We have been sadly falling short in doing that. He is giving us a chance now to come to back to Him. To rededicate ourselves to God.
I feel in the near future the churches will be full again, Americans searching for God, realizing we cannot do this alone. Realizing that self is not the answer, but that Christ is. And if electing Obama to be the president of the United States is what it takes to wake up America, then that's what we need.
Christians have set complacent too long. That's how we got to where we are today, and that's out of God's will. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so we don't help them to see what God's Word says. If we take a stand for God, He will not leave us alone. For He will stand with us. And Who better to have your back than God?!?!?
II Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
This is what we need. We need our land healed, but He gives us the conditions as to how we get that accomplished. It's up to us. What are we going to do?
John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
This verse just shows that if we want peace, that we only find it in God. And it also shows us that no matter what He has us to do, that He is with us and He has already overcome the world. This is assurance that no matter what we do in His will, He will give us the strength and courage to accomplish it.
It's our decision. Do we have to wonder around lost for 40 years before coming back to Him, or do we want to learn our lesson quicker and have our land healed?
I am adding this poem because it seems to fit this hub:
America the beautiful,
or so you used to be.
Land of the Pilgrims' pride;
I'm glad they'll never see.
Babies piled in dumpsters,
Abortion on demand,
Oh, sweet land of liberty;
your house is on the sand.
Our children wander aimlessly
poisoned by cocaine
choosing to indulge their lusts,
when God has said abstain
From sea to shining sea,
our Nation turns away
From the teaching of God's love
and a need to always pray
We've kept God in our temples,
how callous we have grown.
When earth is but His footstool,
and Heaven is His throne.
We've voted in a government
that's rotting at the core,
Appointing Godless Judges;
who throw reason out the door,
Too soft to place a killer
in a well deserved tomb,
But brave enough to kill a baby
before he leaves the womb.
You think that God's not angry,
that our land's a moral slum?
How much longer will He wait
before His judgment comes?
How are we to face our God,
from Whom we cannot hide?
What then is left for us to do,
but stem this evil tide?
If we who are His children,
will humbly turn and pray;
Seek His holy face
and mend our evil way:
Then God will hear from Heaven;
and forgive us of our sins,
He'll heal our sickly land
and those who live within.
But, America the Beautiful,
If you don't - then you will see,
A sad but Holy God
withdraw His hand from Thee.
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Comments
einron, Thank you for reading and commenting. I am always honored to have you post on my hubs. I admire your faith and how well you know the Bible. My prayer is that we turn back to God, and if electing who was elected does so, then that is what we as a country needs. Our greatest need is always God, it just feels like we have forgotten that in the United States. I love the verses that you used in your post. Thank you so much. Please come back anytime!
Allshookup;
Wow, that is quite an effort to describe our country as we await Obama's presidency. He is an enigma to me. He has changed his stance so many times that I am just not sure what to expect.
I do agree that God may be turning away from America. He is a jealous God. America has turned away from Him. I guess I am always hopeful. So, I hope that America experiences a needed revival soon.
Thanks for continually taking a strong stand for what you believe.
VP, I am always greatful when you comment on my hubs. I always look forward to your input. I do hope America wakes up and turns back to God. I agree with you about him changing his views so much. Hard to tell what he does or doesn't stand for at times. He is an excellent speaker and talks around most all questions. Thanks for reading my hub and for your comments. As always, I appreciate you posting on my hubs! Thanks!
Very well put ASU. I do have something to say though. God expects us to vote for the one that is best according to his Word, even if He puts the most evil one in office. We are to live His Word (to the best of our ability) and let him take care of everything else.
Personally, I don't want a thank you from Obama nor McCain either. Of course that is me and how I am. :P
In darkness there is light. In light there is darkness. All of it is God because God is All.
This hub is darkness. I look forward to reading your hubs of light.
ASU I admire your conviction even if it comes from a different place than mine. Perhaps God has indeed answered your prayers, but you should never second guess what is to come. God, (or capricious fate!) has a way of turning things on it's head. Expect the unexpected and you will not be disappointed!
SirDent, Thanks for reading and commenting. I always look forward to your insight because I respect you so much. I was actually saying that he owes us a thank you in jest. I don't want a thank you from him either. And as you know, I did not vote for him. It would go against everything I stand for. I feel God has allowed him to be in this position for a purpose and we need to find that purpose. He alone knows what is best for His children. I admire your testimony and always enjoy your posts. Thanks brother!
Storytellersrus, Thanks for reading and commenting. I'm sorry you feel this is a dark hub. I feel it is light because I think that through all that will come, it is a chance for people to draw closer to God. And that is always the best thing. Which to me would be a 'light', since He is the Light we need to draw closer to. I do appreciate you reading and commenting. Hopefully I will have a hub that you will enjoy more one day. Did you read the one I wrote about our dog? That one is pretty light I think.
Amanda, Thanks for coming by my hub. My prayer is that we get and stay where God needs us. It will be then that He pours out His blessings on us. That goes for anyone in the world. When we are not in His will, we deprive ourselves of so many blessings. But when we are where we should be with God, our cup overflows with blessings. I pray that we get back where we belong. God is in control and He loves us enough to take the time to give us chances to change our ways. And I pray we do that. I don't think any human is as close to God as we should be, so I hope we all come closer to Him. As humans, we tend to look at what self self self can do, but when we get down so far that self can no longer do anything, then we are left seeing that is it indeed God who does what we need and for our own good. Thank you for the compliment. Thank you for respecting my convictions even if they are different than yours. Please drop by anytime. Thanks for your comments! :)
All day I watch the sky changing from blue to blue. For You are forever And I am like a single day that passes. All day I think thanks for this world, For the rocks and the tips of the waves, For the tupelos and the fading roses. For the wind. For You are forever While I am like a single day that passes.
Mary Oliver writes inspirational poetry that reminded me of this Hub today.
It's a very pretty poem. Thank you for sharing it. It is ineed right that God is forever and we owe Him so much thanksgiving for all of the wonderful things He gives us that we often take for granted. Even for the fading flowers and for the sky. He blesses us so much! Again, thank you so much for sharing this with us! Drop by anytime!
Early on in this election season, I was undecided as to how to vote. That was before, however, I started reading the stances both candidates stood on. And like you, felt, neither was a great choice.
You have taken many of my thoughts and eloquently stated them.
I've commented elsewhere how God will give us the leaders we deserve. Right now, we deserve Mr. Obama.
Although his liberal slants are not in line with my beliefs, I feel I still must pray for his administration to make wise decisions.
Of course, God is, and always will be sovereign. No leader leads before being sifted through His will.
It's too early to form an opinion of an Obama white house. Time will be the future measuring stick of any leader.
As a Christian, I wish this great nation was less idolatrous! But we are where we are due to incredible disobedience and a falling away from God.
The book of Jonah speaks of repentance of an idolatrous city (Nineveh), but is really an allegory of then Israel and other current nations.
How many times did Israel receive a bad king to prove a point? To move her back into God's plan?
As far the US, we are fallen. But we have hope!
The jury is still out!
Rob, thanks so much for reading my hub. I was kinda curious if anyone would understand what I was talking about. I'm thankful that some of you do. And you are very right in everything you said. I pray very hard for our country. More than I ever have before. And I feel you are right in that we got the leader we need just as the Children of Israel did. I'm so thankful God is in control!!! What a comfort in this day and age!!! Please drop by anytime!
I found this hub to be very much in line with conversations we have had between my husband, myself and our friends. Somehow I keep comming back to a Garth Brooks song (yes I know it is cliche'), but I can't help it. "Unanswered Prayers" seems to sum up this election for me. While I am not one who voted for Obama, those who have read my comments understand this... I cannot help but wonder if maybe he was right for America right now?
Please don't lynch me, I just feel that this maybe the wake up call that America has needed. I pray that we don't continue on the downward spiral we were on, and agree that it was the lesser of 2 evils this election. If Obama follows what he has written and what research (valid research as you said not the media's slant), maybe, just maybe it will be enough to make those who were questioning their faith to come back to it. And strengthen those of us who have continued to believe.
My project this year as some may have read was to read the Bible. I am about to start Revelations and that scares me, but I have learned that most of the Bible God is jealous and he does give us what we deserve but not more than we can handle. As family and friends we have discussed how one benefit is that family is keeping in closer contact as none of us are secure and we need to watch out for eachother.
Who knows maybe in 4 years the Christians will be fed up enough to stand up and say we should be allowed to say "Merry CHRISTmas" if others can say "Happy Hanukkah" etc. I am not saying he will be a bad President because we don't know that yet, but I do know that our entire political system is an "Unanswered Prayer" right now... Do we have it in us as Christians to stand up for ourselves as we have let everyone else do?
Sorry so long winded!
ASU - I understand how your statements here are in line with your beliefs as stated elsewhere. From that perspective, this hub is consistent and well written. However, Obama may well turn out to be a peacemaker, after years of war-making. Wouldn't that also be in line with God's will? Blessed are the peacemakers. Prior to the election, I read many hubs stating that the McCain/Biden ticket was more in line with God's purpose. I think you may even have said as much yourself. Now that Obama has won, that was apparently God's hidden purpose all along the line. God's on a winner with you as a fan - whatever he does, he's right ;)
Sorry - brain not engaged - should read McCain/Palin above. On the other hand and Obama/Palin ticket would have been interesting!!
Ive grown up in the church and faith based organizations, and I can truly count on one hand the number of christians Ive met on one hand.
Ive met many who can remember one snippet of dogma or scripture and yell about it until their red in the face, can openly hate and judge their peers yet fail to act in christian charity and forgiveness at every opportunity.
4 years of Obama equal to the trials of the israelites! Our falling out as a country of faith at least at the leadership level would have been at least 40 years ago, when we began to battle and conquer in the name of greed.
How could McCain a military man, a proponent and advocate of murder be your chosen one? Can you imagine Christ saluting a flag or pulling a trigger>
blogging2, You were not longwinded! I enjoyed your post and I agree with you. I feel this will be a time for a renewing of our faith and that is exactly what we need. Revelations is so interesting, especially when you read it while reading the book of Daniel. We had a Wednesday night study not long ago on Revelations and it was so exciting to think we may be the generation that Christ chose to meet Him in the air in the Rapture! Would that not be sooo wonderful!?!?! I, along with all the Christians I know, are praying so hard for our country right now. It seems that God has put our country on our hearts so heavily right now and I feel that is for a reason. I know the Garth song well. And it's so true, that when we don't get a 'yes' from God, we think He's not listening so many times, when in fact He is listening, He's just doing what is for our own good when we don't even realize it. It is not SO great how He loves us!??!!? Thank you so much for reading and commenting. BTW, my husband voted for Bob Barr too!! Gotta love him! :)
Paraglider, Thank you for reading and commenting on my hub. I did say that McCain is certainly not my first choice of a presidential candidate and I still stand by that. I don't think he's the president we need. But, I feel in my heart that Obama is not a leader who will be pro-American or pro-God which I am both. That's why I could not vote for him. But, as you said, since Obama won, then I take that as God's will and He always knows what is best for us. Like I said in the hub and others have said in their posts, the Children of Isreal were given kings that were not good in order to draw them back to God. He did this to them because it was for their own good and because He loved them so much. And I feel strongly that that's what we are experiencing here in the US right now. He is giving us a leader who will cause such hard times that we will realize that self is not going to get us through, but that only God will. Obama may call 'peace peace' but time will tell where this peace he talks about will occur. Here in the US or with our enemies. Seems like lots of countries who hate us seem to love Obama and that to me is not a good thing. I think they know that he will not stand for our country and they love that. Again, I hope I'm wrong and time will tell. But whether it's Obama or some other horrible thing to happen, we need something to get our country focused back on God. He is in control and knows what it will take, we don't. But we, as Christians, know that we are not a nation who follows God as we should be right now. Thanks again for coming by!
sunforged, did you read my whole hub? If so, you never once saw me say that McCain was my choice for president. And no, Jesus Christ should never salute anyone, He's God. But if you remember, God went with the Children if Israel into many battles and helped them win. God doesn't need a gun, He's God. I'm not sure why you seem so angry. I am only writing about what I believe and feel is going on in America right now. If you have gone to church, then you realize that who God loves, He chastens. And I feel like it's about time He takes us to the woodshed. We are not following His will in this country. Look at it! You talk about McCain being for murder, he is for war, Obama is the one for murdering our babies. There's a difference in war and abortion (murder). I'm sorry for whatever bad experiences you had in church. But please don't just the rest of the country of us. You don't know me or anyone else on here you are judging very well unless you live close to them and have a relationship with them. You are judging us without all the facts. Please don't do that. Thank you for reading and commenting.
And yes, paraglider, no matter what God does, He is right. Whether I agree with it or not, He's right and He does what is best for us whether we realize the reasons He does things or not. He always does what's best for us because He loves us. Even taking us to the woodshed.
allshookup, I appreciate this article as it takes a very strong soul to write it, however although In some ways I am unbiased I believe that Obama will make change and we as a country have to give him a chance. I do not believe the article is negative in anyway and you are sincerely expressing your opinion as you stated at the beginning,It was our choice to read it or not. Only God knows what will happen in this country as it could be for the good or it could be for the bad, what we need to do is just pay attention and all of us will find out.
Thank you ASU for another wonderful hub! I agree with your comments and also appreciate the comments of Rob Jundt. It's becoming more aparent everyday that we are in the end times....
AEvans, Thanks for reading and for your comments. I do hope that Obama is good for us. I am praying hard for our country and for all of our leaders including Obama. I hate to see our children go through hard times because we have let them down in not doing the things we should have done or doing things we should not have done. I'm just thankful it's all in God's hands because we know that He loves us and will do what we need. Thanks again for commenting!
Chones, Great to see you!! Thanks for the read and comment! There are indeed many signs we are in the last times. I couldn't agree with you more. Drop by anytime! BTW, your non-human is a doll! :)
Someone said that we must be careful what we pray for.
I’m afraid that filling the churches may not be the answer at all. The stance of the church is reflected in its membership. The liberal media has influenced the liberal seminaries which have influenced the liberal preachers who in turn have influence the people to be liberal.
Unfortunately, many who call themselves Christians do not know Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Many do not read the Bible at all and many others do not read it to see the truth and allow it to change them.
Persecution of Christians has brought about great revivals in the past. Reading the book of Acts with this in mind makes it perfectly clear.
I agree with you on this; “It's time we do make a 'change'! A change for Christ!”
1 Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? NKJV
I’m afraid you are right about the future, whether it is in the next 4 years or not.
In the mean time we must pray for our leaders no matter what we personally think of them. If we have voted our conviction and if their stance does not line up with God's Word, then it is up to God to work it out in His way.
It is my sincere prayer that we Christians will judge ourselves and not be judged.
Thank you for a powerful article. ~ eddie
Eddie, great to have you on my hub. I always admire your insight. Thanks for those verses, too. I do hope that we wake up and get ourselves back to where we belong, and that is in God's perfect will. We lose so many blessings for acting the ways we do now. But it's like we can't see that. We want to do what we want the way we want. I also know a lot people who are like you are talking about. Also, it's so sad to see churches today that do not preach the Gospel. They talk about God and love but never get down to the bare bones of it. That teach half-truths. What is a half-truth? A lie. Many churches nowdays don't teach about Hell. That is a travisty. We need to take more of an active roll ourselves as church goers and do our own daily devotions, opening our hearts to God and what He wants us to learn. None of us humans are as close to God as we should be, but I hope we change that. It is true that many in church does not mean many are saved. If we could get back to preaching and teaching the real whole Gospel, what a difference we could make in this world. Thanks again for your comments Eddie. Hi to Barbie!
I did not intend for you to to feel as If I was judging you in any way.
I have had no bad experiences with the church, merely pointing out that it is more common for individuals to thump their bibles using a mere fragment of scripture as their backbone, while rarely speaking acting or representing the larger and more important virtues of the christian faith, like forgiveness and acceptance.
Murder, war, abortion, all semantics -Thou shall not kill. period, end. no qualifiers.
sorry for assuming that your non support of obama translated as support for Mccain, that was my error, good hub and great job getting ideas and debate flowing
Thank you :)
Judge not, that you be not judged. For as you judge, so shall you be judged. I think it was Jesus who said that.
Who can know the mind of God? Actually we all can because we make our god - as someone once said, we are not made in the image of God but we make God in our image, to suit our own opinions.
So thanks for a thought-provoking Hub, but I can't agree with you. We as people must take personal responsibility for our actions. The results of the election are not a reflection of God's will but of the hands that made the marks on the ballot papers or pushed the levers of the voting machines.
BTW I don't think this life is a dress-rehearsal - this is it, and its ours to make the best of it.
And Christians have a lot to be contrite about - the Crusades, the Inquisition, right up to priests blessing the guns of firing squads and so-called born-agains ordering highly murderous and destructive wars on the basis of lies, plain, outright, down-to-earth lies.
So maybe God did send Obama, because he is the best of the candidates, at least in the eyes of the people who voted for him (and yes, I say "best" because there in fact were more than two candidates for the presidency in the recent election.
Love and peace to you all,
Tony
I just don't think you should pretend to speak for all Christians. I don't recognize what you promote as Christianity. But yes, you have the right to speak your mind.
Tony, thanks for reading and commenting. If you read the first part of my hub, you can see that I said this is what I believe. You can also see that there are some others who are feeling the same way. Who God loves, He chastens. He is in control of each and every situation. Only He knows the reason that Obama was elected, I just wrote a hub explaining why I thought he was elected. We as a nation are not a Godly people as a whole anymore. And we need to be taken to the woodshed apparently, because we are not looking like we are going to come back to God without something happening to wake us up. And yes, the voters are the ones who cast the ballots and we deserve what we got. God give the Children of Israel bad kings to wake them up because they were getting so far from Him. It was like a Father disciplines His children. He does so because He loves them. Why do we discipline our children? Because we love them and can see when they make mistakes. That is also the same with God, He sees our mistakes and loves us enough to take the time to disipline us. I'm thankful He loves us like He does. We certainly don't deserve it, but He does. I feel Obama is what we need right now. I am not juding anyone. If you listen to what Obama said in his speeches and what he has done in his professional and personal life, you can see he does not line up with Biblical standards. That is not judging, that is opening your eyes to see what the man does, it is listening to the words he says and watching the things he does. It is based on facts. I listened to him, I watched him, just like millions of other people did. I don't see why you call it juding when it's hearing the words come out of his mouth. You are right in that we need to take personal responsiblity for ourselves. Not doing so is what has put our nation in the mess it's in now. And from what I can see, it is going to get worse. Thanks again for commenting.
pgrundy, If you are going to post, please read the whole hub first. I said up front that this is what I FEEL, therefore is it what I, not all Christians, feel. I put that disclaimer there before I wrote it. It was your choice to, I guess, skim the hub. I said plainly that it is my opinion. So, I'm not why you posted what you did. Also, I am thankful that it is God who is my ultimate judge because He knows my heart, not any human. Thanks for posting.
grundy, are you not judging me saying that what I "promote" is not your idea of Christianity?
Hey, good to see this well written article. Your perspective is your own (which you made quite clear) but also represents many, many others because there are many who know God and seek His best for our nation. A couple of points to consider:
1. Obama does not represent change. He used the word a lot, and he will be very different than Mr. Bush, but he will be right in line with where Congress, the judiciary, and previous Democrat presidents have been heading for most of the past 60 years. With him in the White House, Congress and the judiciary can achieve their brand of "change," which is more of the same harmful policies and decisions at an ever increasing pace. Yes, it will become more and more difficult for Christians and most others as well.
2. One commenter referred to John McCain as "a proponent and advocate of murder." I don't know what evidence there is in John McCain's life of this, but Obama is clearly a proponent and advocate of murder. Those he prefers to see murdered are children in the womb; at the amount of at least 1,500 every day in the USA!
3. It is true that we cannot totally know the mind of God, but we can know certain things, in particular what He has given us in His Word. And because He invites us to have a personal relationship with Him through Christ, we can know something of His nature and rely on His guidance to make wise choices.
Keep up the good work.
John, great to see you! Thanks for reading and commenting on my hub. You make great points. I agree with you. And Christians will be hit hard. Already talking of the Fairness Doctrine. (Not sure who came up with that name, but it is anything but fair. It's only a way to keep Christians from preaching and teaching God's truths.) We will definately be under fire. But, like you said, all will feel the hurt from an Obama administration I'm afraid. I have heard them say that McCain is for muder since he's a military man. Which makes no sense at all. If not for military men, those people who are whining and trashing them would not have the freedoms to be doing that. I do wish they'd use common sense and realize that. But itsn't it a great comfort to know our Lord is in control!?! Please drop by anytime. I always enjoy our posts.
I don't mean to judge you. If it sounded that way I'm sorry. I didn't skim the hub--you use the term 'we' as Christians right in the title, and I'm just saying there are lots of different Christian views, not just one. Thanks for writing your thoughts.
Thanks for commenting again and your welcome :)
Alshookup- read most of what you had to say it was bable fitting the tower. God hasen't turned away from you he fell asleep reading that drivil.
Obama is in office cause we needed a change and the American people knew it.
You keep going on about killing babies but you never answer the question wtf does it have to do with you?
Why should a woman have to go thru her doctor and god and YOU to decide what she wants to do with her body? As usual you missed the point and went off on your soap box.
But then you did warn us when we began to read the piece.
Peace OUt.
I do believe that Obama is what we need. I feel strongly, as many others do, that his election will bring a "change" but not the 'change' that so many people voted for. He is what we need right now. We need to be brought to our knees and back to God. It has to do with everyone that women are murdering their babies every day by the thousands. God will never bless our nation as long as this travisty is legal. It falls on our heads that this is allowed to happen. People hate Hitler because he killed so many Jews, same thing is going on today, so many babies are being murdered and it's legal. Hitler would love that! That's exactly the things Hitler would celebrate and back. I have had women as my patients while I worked on the phych ward who where there over abortions they had. It messed with their hearts after it was done. They realized they murdered their babies. Women even commit suicide over doing this when it hits them what they have done. I have seen it with my own eyes. It not only kills the baby, it also hurts the mothers who have a heart. Sadly, it's after it's done that they realize what they have done, only to know they have to live the rest of their lives with that on their conscience.
A worried woman went to her gynecologist and said: 'Doctor, I have a serious problem and desperately need your help! My baby is not even 1 yr. old and I'm pregnant again. I don't want kids so close together.'
So the doctor said: 'Ok, and what do you want me to do?'
She said: 'I want you to end my pregnancy, and I'm counting on your help with this.'
The doctor thought for a little, and after some silence he said to the lady: 'I think I have a better solution for your problem. It's less dangerous for you too.'
She smiled, thinking that the doctor was going to accept her request.
Then he continued: 'You see, in order for you not to have to take care of 2 babies at the same time, let's kill the one in your arms. This way, you could rest some before the other one is born. If we're going to kill one of them, it doesn't matter which one it is. There would be no risk for your body if you chose the one in your arms.
The lady was horrified and said: 'No doctor! How terrible! It's a crime to kill a child!'
'I agree', the doctor replied. 'But you seemed to be ok with it, so I thought maybe that was the best solution.' He smiled, realizing that he had made his point. He convinced the mom that there is no difference in killing a child that's already been born and one that's still in the womb. The crime is the same!
This is only common sense. No one has to answer to me, as you so put it in your post, but they do have to answer to God and themselves and have to live with that decision the rest of their lives. They are murdered before they have a voice, so it's up to us who do have a voice to speak for them.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
When they kill those babies, they are filling the kingdom of God. Of course in order to make room for the babies their places must be emptied out first. Just imagine, God has a mansion for you and you abort your baby. You come before God and he says, "I had your place all fixed up just the way you like it. Furniture in the right place and everything you can imagine that you like. But look over here at this child. Do you recognize it? It is the very one that you had aborted. He now has your mansion. There is no room for you here."
There shall be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
SirDent, chilling and very true. Thanks for posting that. It's very sobering to realize how many murdered babies have been sent to Heaven because they were an inconvinence for their mothers. You post gave me chills.
I started writing an article titled, "Why Didn't I get a Chance?" I thought about your last comment here and had to come and post that.
It seems people love controversy, except when it is against their own desires. many things I have written have caused a lot of controversy and some falling out. I wonder if I had written the opposite side, how many from this side would fall out with me.
There will be a time when Jesus says to some, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you." Many have no idea what they are even saying.
I have realized one thing that seems to be going around a lot. Many believe they can do works and make it into heaven because good works is pleasing to God. God will reward good works even to those who do not believe in Jesus. God will not go against His own Word. In order to find salvation, they must first meet Jesus and repent of their sins believing that Jesus died and God raised Him from the dead. After this, the good works will count toward something that is worth working for.
I may be wrong, but I believe wonderkatt to be a troll. Loving reactions to his/her comments. If so it is such a sad existance for a human being.
Sirdent or is it loin? get over yourself. Another person making up stories about what God said. Please give God his own due.
Neither you or alshook can tell me why a woman has to get your approval if she has made peace with her God and her doctor approves. YOU ARE NOT GOD. Get over yourself. God never said any of those things you wrote about. thats just you playing god.
And for Alshook- I noticed in your story about the doctor he made a choice on which kid to "kill" He had a choice but you won't give the same consideration to the mother?
You both need to remember that its her womb not yours. and God is not here as your hand puppet.
Peace OUT
Psa 24:1 <A Psalm of David.> The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
This includes the woman, her womb and the fetus or child carried within.
And here I go again throwing some gas on the fire... While personally I would not get an abortion at this point in my life, I can say that at another time in my life with another person it would have been a serious consideration IF that had happened (it didn't, but if it had I would have given it serious thought). Can I say what I would have done? No, noone can. But I can say this...
As bad as it may sound I have seen many children brought into this world because the mother didn't believe in abortion, though they didn't believe in adoption either. Some of these children are in dire situations and I wonder if it is fair to them to be there? Is it fair to those of us who pay for them? Most of the children I have seen in these cases end up in foster care (sate paid for), and often by that time they are too old for someone to adopt (past that cute cuddly phase or addicted to heaven knows waht a birth). Not that they couldn't, but there are just too many in the foster care system, so people take the ones who don't have drug addictions, have not been abused and raped by their birth parents, etc.
I do NOT support abortion as a form of birth control, but I do respect a woman's right to chose. Also there is no black and white in anything. Rape for instance. Personally, there is no way I could carry a child to term that was conceived through rape.
I don't know the right answer, but I can say that sometimes I wonder seeing these children and what they are going through, what their choice would have been if given: going straight to Christ's side before having to endure what their "parents" put them through.
If someone does not want the child, that does not mean they will give it up for adoption to go to a loving home. If someone is going to bring a child into the world just because they don't believe in abortion but is unwilling to love it unconditionally and do all the things being a parent requires why force them to carry it to term and then force the child to live an existance knowing (and believe me the children do know) that they were not wanted?
Interesting hub, ASU. I believe Obama has thanked Christians of all natures & others of faith all the time he has been running, even as McCain did. Years ago when I used to get those Chick tracts I remember one which stated that any president elected in God's annointed.
Is that still considered true amongst most Christians? I don't know. I have heard some praise the choice and some say Obama is the Anti-Christ. Seems we are still split on many issues!
Cheers!
Chef Jeff
Its strange. Obama is a christian but no accepted by other christian? It makes me wonder who these other christians are.
It's like when Jesus wasent accepted by the leaders of the faith in his time. I wonder where those leaders are now?
Hey Sirdent or loin, you wrote that "This includes the woman, her womb and the fetus or child carried within". If God had wanted those line included in his bible then why didnt he write it? And doesen't the bible frown on others adding or subtracting from its content? LOL
Peace Out
SirDent, I look forward to a hub like that. No matter who agrees with it or not, you know that you are in the right in God's eyes and His are the ones who matter. I've never seen you write anything that doesn't line up with the Bible. You have my highest respect.
wonderkatt, why do you say 'lion' to SirDent? Also, the story I put on here was to show people it's the same killing a born baby a year old and killing a baby who is just conceived. The doctor wasn't giving her a choice, he was showing her reality. I was hoping those who read it would be bright enough to see that. Also, neither SirDent nor I would ever ever ever claim to be God. We have just read what He says. You can do that too you know. He gave His Word so everyone could know how to live. In Mississippi, if you have a carwreck and the car you hit is driven by a pregnant woman, and she miscarries due to the accident, you can easily be charged with vehicular man-slaughter because you killed the baby in her womb. Now, that law explains that a baby inside a mother is a baby. So, that is a secular law. A good one, but it is indeed secular. Apparently people who don't read the Bible are bright enough to know that a baby is baby wonderkatt. We say what we say because we love those babies and also worry about the mothers. I have told stories on here about working on a phych unit dealing with mothers who had abortions and couldn't live with themselves after it. It has nothing to do with getting an ok from a doctor. I don't play 'God'. If I did, I feel like I would change so many things it would make your head spin. But, thankfully I'm not able to make His decisions because I'd mess them up. Only He knows what is best and you can find that in the Bible and by praying. Please act more respectful on my hubs.
blogging2, thanks for reading and commenting. I am thankful that it didn't happen where you had to make that decision earlier in your life. And I'm thankful you are in a good place in your life now. Like I have said, I have had many women as patients who were on my floor simply because of the nightmare they had to live in after an abortion. Several of them could no longer get pregnant due to the abortions. So much goes into an abortion that most don't realize. You seem like a very very sweet person and I'm glad this is not something you have on your conscience. I always appreciate your comments! Thanks! Come by anytime.
Chef Jeff, Good to see you on my hub. Thanks for reading and commenting. I was really kidding when I wrote that about him thanking Christians. It was a joke. Although, as you read, I do believe our prayers put him in office for a reason and he is what our country needs right now. When it comes to Christians respecting our leaders, we should respect them unless they are doing wrong. No one should accept wrong. Christian or non-Christian. Wrong is wrong no matter who you are. I hope he does things that draw repect and not the other way around. I hope I am wrong about some of the things I feel he will do. Time will tell I guess huh? The reason fundamental Christians have a problem supporting him is is stace on so many things that go against the Bible. He says he is Christian, but what has he really done to support that in his actions? A tree is known by it's fruit. And that is not judging, it's using common sense. You know where WBush stands, but you are not judging, you are only seeing what he has done. So, that's how we feel about Obama until he changes and proves us wrong. It sure would be nice if he were to do that! Thanks for the comments!
wonderkatt, SirDent is not trying to talk for God. He said what you used in quotes to try to help you to understand better what the Scripture means since it seems like you are not trying to understand it and how important a subject it is. He was trying to be helpful to you. Play nice!
Just popping in to say, "keep up the good work ASU".
There does seem to be many "types" of Christians. However, it seems like this statment is made by those who would like God to be what is most convenient to them. As you've clearly said time and time again, the Bible is there for anyone who'd like to read it, and in turn learn about God.
SirDent- I appreciate your comments; thank you.
wonderkatt- It's apparent that you get some sort of warped pleasure from being rude and offensive. No one has done anything to deserve some of the comments you've made. It's easy to see that you disagree, but try making valid points instead of taking the easy way out; it makes you look weak and immature.
Alshook- I called him Sir Loin not lion. Sorry from your post and his you both seem to be interpreting the bible for us and as usual when men make up what it says you misinterpret it.
So Its up to each woman to decide whatt the fetus inside of her is and its importance. Its between her and her God not people who claim to be representing God or interpreting his word.
You guys really gotta get a life.
If you know whats in Wbush's mind and accept his actions as christian then you have no idea what a christian is.
Bush has stood for torture, war, death lies and greed.... wait a minute. He is your kinda christian !!!
Peace OUt
Did I say I support Bush's actions anywhere? No. I've never said that nor did I say he's a Christian. I'm not sure where you are coming up with that. Maybe you have me confused with someone else.
What I said about knowing W Bush was seeing his actions. I wonder if wonderkat is reading posts or just seeing a word here and there and adding his own words in between. Hmm......
And from what you say you believe, you do not even read the Bible. So, I thought it was nice of SirDent to try to share with you what the Bible does say as you don't read it, apparently. I agree with Chones about you. Please act more adult. Name calling is rather childish.
wonderkatt- Would you mind answering a few questions for me? I think it would help provide some clarity as to where you're coming from. (from my perspective anyway...)
1.) What do you mean when you say things such as: "It's between her and her god" [Not capitalized due to the generic notion of a god in general] Meaning, do you sincerely believe that God is different things to different people? Or do you not give God enough respect to acknowledge His existence (or possible existence should I say for a secular ideology)?
2.) Do you personally believe in God?
3.) Do you feel that the God of the Bible; of Abraham and Isaac, etc. is the same as the "god" of other religions? i.e. Buddists, Muslims, etc.?
Thanks in advance-
chonies yes It is between a woman and her concept of God. I don't know anyone who follows everything in the bible (the thing about eating shell fish for one.).
I know it says thou shall not kill but we kill to eat and in war and we kill healthy viruses to keep ourselves healthy. So there is a lot which we interpret into what we want it to mean. So a woman has the right to deal with God on her beliefs.
She should not have to take into consideration your beliefs. Just like you don't follow Islam or the people of that religion cause they think they have the only true way.
I believe in god cause I feel his hand in all I do. Do I believe in everything in the bible? No. But my relationship with God is between me and him. I don't give a damn what YOU think about how I should behave to get next to my God.
As for you other questions He's God he can have as many names as he wants.
You are welcome.
Alshook- I read what you said about wbush "A tree is known by it's fruit. And that is not judging, it's using common sense. You know where WBush stands, but you are not judging, you are only seeing what he has done."
If that not an endorsement of the liar president then what is? Bush claim to be a christian and you and people of your ilk believe him but then he murders 10's of thousands of men and women and children and you still say his name without spitting?
I don't understand.
Peace Out
wonderkatt, I never said that I believe Bush, so you can quit lying about that now. I think the one thing you said in that post says it all about you: "I don't understand." I think that sums you up pretty good.
ashook - yes I guess that makes me a lot like you.
LOL
Are you feeling better?
Truthfully, I feel pretty rough tonight. I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to stay up. And it's only 6:22 pm. UGH!
ASU, thanks for the explanation about my question.
Chef Jeff
I just came across this article this morning. I find it to directly correlate with the fact that this country is indeed turning its back on God. This columnist claims to be a conservative writer. Does anyone else have a problem with this?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
wonderkatt- Thank you very much for answering my questions, I really appreciate it.
I've never been one to quote the Bible, or pretend that I know everything that it contains. I do know that you can read this wonderful gift from God over and over again, and still not be fed with what it has to offer.
Personally, I think we are giving ourselves a disservice if we believe that God is different things to different people. For example, when you stated that "it is between her and her [concept] of God". I don't say this to start an argument, but rather to say that God is always going to be the same- He never lies or changes to suit our personal needs.
I do admit that the Bible can be challenging to understand at times. Some take its teachings out of context. Yes, it teaches that we should not kill (i.e. murder). But the Bible is also full of stories of evil, killing, etc. We must be able to correctly interpret its teachings. There is a huge difference between righteousness and murder. I always feel that the Holy Spirit helps me to understand :) The Bible says that we are to have dominion over all the birds of the sky and animals.... (keep in mind I'm paraphrasing here).
God is not the same as other "religions" believe Him to be; this is a fundamental problem between religions. For example, the Islamic faith says that God has no Son. Therefore, that cannot be the God I know and love. If you have 15 minutes and are interested, I'd enjoy hearing your reaction to this short ----> http://www.themoviefitna.com/
Lastly, I'm not forcing my belief on you or the hypethetical girl we've been speaking of. You are correct, we are all responsible for the things we do...between oursleves as individuals and God. I don't know why you are so defensive though, wonderkatt?
Thank you again for your comments.
I tend to think that Christians have missed the boat on abortion. I say this as a strong Christian who believes it is wrong. But we missed the boat on it years ago. Maybe the thing to focus on it helping people not get into situations where abortion is the option they are considering? If we put the effort into helping kids stay away from sex, drugs etc that we put into denouncing abortion - I think we might make a bigger difference. Not that I think abortion is good - but I think it is here to stay and so maybe we should focus on what we should do to not make it an option.
I agree that I don't think Obama is who Jesus would've chosen. But it was Jesus who said render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's. And so for the moment, my allegiance as an American has to go to Obama. He is going to be my President, even though I am not happy with him. That doesn't mean I cannot dissent from what he wants to do. It means that I need to pray for him to do what is right, and hope that he doesn't do too much damage. I think he's going to find that his hands are tied with respect to various things, and he won't get done what he wants to get done. Then the Republicans are going to be able to have a good shot at the White House next time around.
Chef, you're very welcome. Come by anytime.
Chones, thanks for the link. This woman seems not to have sense God gave a goose to me. Seems she is also one of those people who think that 'religion', as they call it, should be kept quiet and have nothing to do with politics. But, how can you divide the 2? What you believe determines your actions and that includes when you are in the voting booth. UGH! It's too bad people like her get published. She seems about a bright as a burned out light bulb. Thanks again for the link. It's fits well on this hub. You know you are always welcome on my hubs! :)
nwunderlich, Thanks for reading and commenting on my hub. I agree with you about the abortion thing. We have had classes at our church called 'True love waits'. It's a great program. At the end, when the ones who went through it make their vow to God to stay pure to their wedding night, are given a ring to wear with the word 'purity' on it. It's a really good thing. It's the opposite of what they are taught in public schools. I'm glad our church is doing it. We, as parents as a whole in the United States, have dropped the ball when it comes to our children. We have set back too long and allowed other people to raise our children. I seriously doubt that most parents know everything that their children are being taught in schools today. We have to step up and take the responsiblity that is ours. Our children are our responsiblity and so many have given up that responsiblity to the government. And now look at what all is going on in the teen population. We as Christians have been silent too long too. If we would stand up for what we know it right and stop worrying about what the world thinks, our children would be better off. We teach abstance to our son. We have done this showing Scripture to back up what we are telling him. We want him to understand the importance of it. Waiting until your wedding night has become a rare rare thing. Which is so sad because that's what God wants of us. And He will bless those who do what He asks of us. I think you are right about Obama. He may be exactly what the Republican party needs to restore itself. Thanks so much for commeting. Please come back! :)
I appreciate that others do realize the important event that we have now witnessed. I inspires me to pray daily now. I know God's love will always help us.
Dear allshookup,
I do appreciate your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I read your Hub “Did We As Christians Elect Obama? Does he owe us a 'Thank You'? You have an interesting theory. I would like to comment on it!
There is a reason why God would allow Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) to be the president of the United States. It is not to bring Americans back to him, but to judge America.
BHO was chosen by the American people by a democratic process, just like King Saul. Israel wanted a king just like other nations and God told Samuel to warn the people what kind of person Saul would turn out to be (1 Sam. 8:6-22) Saul turned out to be a very bad king just as God had said. America has been warned about what kind of person BHO is and yet they elected him.
Saul was tall, dark and handsome and “a mighty man of power” (1 Sam. 9:1-2). BHO has good looks much like Saul’s, and he will bring down America like Saul had brought down Israel.
"O Israel, you are destroyed, but your help is from Me. I will be your King; Where is any other, that he may save you in all your cities? And your judges to whom you said, 'Give me a king and princes? I gave you a king in My anger, and took him away in My wrath." (Hosea 13:9-11)
God says to Israel, "You are destroyed" and here is another statement from Him, "I gave you a king in My anger," God is saying the same to America, "You are destroyed" and "I gave you BHO in My anger."
In the next four years America will go through a very difficult period of time called the Great Tribulation (Mt. 24:21-22). I just heard on the TV that the stock market has gone down very much since BHO won the election on November 4, 2008. We are already in a recession. Economists have warned us that it may turn into a depression, just like in the 30’s. First, the bank failures, then the insurance companies, now the auto industry. They all need bailouts. What is next?
If BHO is not the Antichrist, then who is he? What is he besides having a family with a wife who wasn’t proud of America until her husband ran for president, or two girls who want to have puppies? . Do you want to know what kind of tribulation BHO will cause America to go through?
For starters, there are several lawsuits against BHO’s eligilibility as the President. Two of them will be heard in the U.S. Supreme Court on December 5, 2008. http://therightperspective.com/wordpress/?p=349
Can you imagine if the U.S. Supreme Court votes against BHO there will be riots all over America? It is going to be very bad. America don’t have a prayer, because the people brought it all on themselves.
If you are not a Christian right now, go and ask God to guide you and pray in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Repent of your sins and ask God to forgive you. Ask Jesus to come into your heart. If you are already a Christian pray for your loved ones, relatives, friends and neighbors. Judgment is coming to America.
May God bless you.
Arkwriter
Here is a history lesson for all the good people, whether you are in a mood for it or not. The topic is the "origin of the Christian Church". The "Christian Church" came right out of the tail of "Christian mythology", and "Christian Mythology" came right out of the tail of "Heathen Mythology". and now you're all the way back to the time of the birth of Jesus. In those days people believed that all sorts of Gods decended from above and impregnated fair ladies. which gives rise to the people actually believing that Mary was laid by the almighty himself, and just because Joseph said he was told so by an angel. Give me a frickin break!!!...I would not be a bit surprised if God banished the whole lot of ya!!!...for actually believing all that garbage that the church has sanctioned as "His Word". Not one word in your bible is spoken by Jesus. Every word alledgedly spoken by Jesus is what somebody else said he said. and besides, God does not need a middle man, nor does he have one. Every person has direct access to God, equally. Jesus could only speak Hebrew...how in the devil was he going to spread God's word around the whole world. Besides, the world was a flat plane in those days...the dude would have fell off the end of the earth into nothingness.
I don't think Obama owes the Christianists (which the Pentecostalists would certainly be part of) anything at all, since they voted for McCain in overwhelming numbers.
The majority of people who voted for Obama were most certainly Christian, but that's an entirely different matter, isn't it?
Just so you know Livelonger, I am pentecostal myself. Do you proof of your allegations?
arcwriter , You are certainly awkward. You have made up in your scrambled mind that Obama is the Antichrist? based on your bizarre interpretation of the bible?
I'm not sure that God want to punish us for selecting Barack. I think he want us to live and grow and love one another, that's what Barack stands for but you anti-christian Christians cant see truth through your jaded eyes.
Man i find your outlook repulsive.
You wrote that the Obama's girls wanted to have a puppy so that's proof of his evil?
How bent can a person like you get? By the way Michelle Obama said she was proud of America for standing up and getting involved not because her husband was running for office. You might at to actually read about the story before you decide to write about it.
Look it pains me to even try to right a ship so listing from a lack of reality as yours. Your lies and hatred are obvious and you seem to couch it as you being christian and just interperting God's word.
You are bigot pure and simple. You can't stand that a black man is going to be running this country and its eating you up inside so now you cling to those who cling to their religion so that you can add untruths to the mix.
There is no court case against Obama questioning his ability to be president. You are grasping at straws.
You need to get a douche for your brain.
Peace Out
OK going to jump in again just because I am curious this time... While everyone seems to like to bring up the Christianity subject and then racism in the same area, wasn't Jesus "dark skinned"? I am not being scarcastic here, honestly just curious and suprised if he was born in Bethlehem, that makes him "Middle Eastern" by US current standards, not "White". I feel we can throw whatever we want around but I personally come back to, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Simple as that.
Frankly the question and my personal response and most that I know (some did vote for Obama some didn't) but NO ONE I know made their decision based on the color of his skin. While I have zero doubt that there are still bigots and racists out there, not everyone who has something negative to say about Obama is saying it due to his race. That being said I am sure that at least one person out there voted for him simply because he WAS dark skinned.
That is my largest issue with how he got into office. People said many negative things about every president who has run in my lifetime... come on people there are over 300 million people in the US do you think everyone will like one person? The negative things said about McCain were because of what he stood for, the same for many negative comments made against Obama. I personally made some negative comments luckily we still have those freedoms here, we can do that, I did NOT say them because of the color of his skin.
I hope he does a good job not because "he is the first dark skinned president of the US (he really is only half black people if we are discussing race)" but because "he came in and improved life for American's". As long as he puts his hand on a Bible, stands when they play our National Anthem, maybe he will even bring himself to wear an American Flag pin on his lapel now? But most importantly if he can do what needs to be done, then great who cares if he is pink with purple polkadots (my 2 year old would have voted for that I assure you) seriously people we need to get off his race.
He hid behind it (in my opinion) through the election, but that is done now, it is time to put up or shut up. Lets hope that he does love this country and that he ran for at least some of the right reasons and that he has not been corrupted too much in his time in politics (because it will corrupt them all, men, women, black, white, corruption holds no racism).
Alshookup, you are absolutely right about one thing you said or implied in your hub. The populace was sick of George Bush. Mccain being a member of the same political party as Bush was enough to defeat him and most probable did.
Joe Public has a belly full of cowboys or mavericks for a long while.
And, as far as ‘God’s will’ being the sponsor of your rhetoric, you might not have all of the machinery in place to fully and correctly interpret the Creator’s interests.
I see that several posts have been made since I was last on, but I don't have time at this second to respond to them. But please know that as soon as I can, I will.
I am on here right now asking for a prayer request. My father-in-law has suffered a stroke. We don't know the extent of it right now. However we know he will not be able to live alone again. And he will be needing rehab. He is finally conscience. But he doesn't believe he's in a hospital, he thinks he's back at the home he owned in the 70s. He is only talking about the past as if it were present-day. They are still doing tests. Please remember him in your prayers and us as we try to make decisions in this. Thank you so much!
bloggin2- Obama has worn a flag pin for months. Mcain didn't but then no one cared if he didn't wear it just a reason to go after Obama.
As for being "half- white " WTF are you talking about? I have lived almost 60 years and I always heard that" if you had a drop of black blood you were considered black." You guys only talk of "half white" when talking about Obama or Tiger.
LOL
Peace OUt
wonder- The only reason the pin was brought up was an interview I saw with Obama where he said he did not like wearing one. McCain's history kind of spoke for itself and he never said negative things about this country that I personally saw on interviews.
As I said you emphasised my point of when a serious question is asked the response is that I am "you guys" which I take to mean I am in your view a racists, which is offensive to me. And I am not sure what generation you are from but my generation there are many "mixed" relationships and it is "normal" by my standards, many of my friends don't refer to themselves as African American/Caucasion/Black or White, they refer to themselves as "half black- half white" that is where I get it from.
Your attitude and response are much more agressive/demeaning/and rude than my questions. You refer to me as "you guys." What "guys" are you? I thought this was about America? But then that is why we are blessed by where we live, people can say whatever they want. I also find it odd that you don't have a picture or any information about yourself yet you want to attack others on here. Clearly you are an Obama supporter. I just wonder from your comments if you know why you voted for him or who you are supporting?
Oh and BTW Tiger is more Asian than African American or white for that matter, frankly I don't know exactly, all I do know is that he the best person I know of on the golf course. Isn't that what matters?
all- On a more important note, our thoughts and prayers are with you and yours. I wish you all the best during these hard times.
See blogger2- The reason that you don't know of McCain saying anything bad about America is cause you don't read.
When McCain was held as a POW he said that he only loved his country after his freedoms had been taken away. Almost the same thing Michelle said but do you question his patriotism? No?
This by the way was repeated on Faux News on there website they removed the statement cause they wanted to go after Michelle but couldn't as long as McCain said the same thing. But I have seen the same cut on MSNBC.
Obama didn't wear the pin because there are so many fakes wearing and doing dirt to America.
The guys who are war profiteers wear the pin, Corrupt Congress men wear it on their perp-walk. All the perverts and liars and murderers in the Bush's regime will wear it.
What does that mean for your stupid flag pin?
I don't believe you have any black friends that call themselves"half-whites" or half blacks. I suspect you may not have any black friends at all judging from your post.
Sorry if I upset you with my last post but I believe in calling a spade a spade
Peace OUt.
i couldn't get a response out of these Christian fanatics if i lit a firecracker under 'em. and i am soooo bored.
God bless us and our media huh? I see the McCain statement as that he never truely understood the value until all his freedoms were removed. Which (yes I did watch that speach) was the point being made, but that is besides the point. The point is Obama MAYBE a great President, but I find it sad that we all were put in a position of the best of the worst. McCain could never have been elected with everything being done right now, people see immediate, when we are actually seeing results of 8 years ago. (NOTE: We will see ramifications of Bush as well I hold zero doubt, but it is not what we are seeing right now.)
Wow, very interesting that you like to remove either race, most are proud reguardless. But hey, you like to hide who you are so no suprise. And just FYI one of the groomsmen in my wedding was black, and his son is "half black/ half white" per him and his wife. You see, they are both very proud of their heritage and see no reason to remove either, while that is exactly what you would like to do clearly, causing them to choose between their heritage to pick a single race when they are not. You are right though my "black" friends are also proud of their heritage and do not call themselves "half" anything either.
You have no interest in calling a "spade a spade" just being offensive and rude, while hiding behind the anyomity of the internet. God bless you and this will be the last time I respond to you until and unless you chose to put a true avitar up and give up a little of the anomynity. You see those who are honest on here tend to be pretty upfront both in their writing and in their bios, you seem to be neither so have fun ranting to yourself or someone else from now on.
jamster, thanks for reading and for your comments. I too love God and join with you in prayer for our nation. Thanks for coming by my hub. Please come back anytime!
arkwriter, thanks for reading and commenting. I know you had to take time out of your busy hub to do that. Way to go on such a busy hub!! I can't argue with you at all about your feelings that God is judging our country. I feel that He is and that we deserve it since we have allowed such sinful things to do on in our country. I hope we wake up soon. I respect your opinion and I love that you use Scripture to prove what you say and feel. No one can argue with Scripture! Thanks so much.
plyos, thanks for reading. You compliments come across as expressing anger. I guess I don't understand that because I put a disclaimer up front that this is what I feel, not what all people feel or should feel. I see that you don't agree, and that's fine. But, you really don't have to be mad at me for how I feel because I'm not mad at you because you don't agree with me. Too, picking on people who are saved to keep you from being bored says a great deal about you. And it's not a positive thing. :(
SirDent, great to see you as always. I'd like to know the real answer to your question also. Thanks for your prayer and support. I feel honored to call you Brother!
blogging2, thanks for reading and commenting. I don't understand why that issue is brought up either. It seems to be just an excuse because they can't find a real one. Thanks so much for your support during this hard time for my family. It really means alot.
wonderkatt, you seem to come on just to try to start something. Is that true? Because you seem to project that.
My goodness...how you do go on about you "being saved". The phrase itself gushes with overtones of selfrightousness, seeming coming from a belly bulging of ignornance. I might remind you allsookup that hubpages is published to the world and at their own expense. anyone and everyone is free to read and comment on anything that is published on their site. i don't suspect any one private "cult" has priority to exchange their worthless religious hearsay here in a private domain. and please...let me relieve you of any concern you might harbor about me "being mad" at anyone, that accusation is just completely without foundation. I'm simply exercising my right to read and comment, and your hub was there in the line to read. So, and thank you very much for the intertainment.
pylos, I was just stating the fact that it seems you are angry. And going off like you just did, kinda says it even more. But, hey, if you wanna stay upset, that's your choice. I'd rather be relaxed and happy. I am not self-righteous. It seems people who don't believe what we do claim we are self-rigtheous and judgmental. But that's just a copout.
SirDent: What "allegations" did I make that I need proof of? That most evangelicals/Christianists voted for McCain or that the majority of those who voted for Obama are Christian?
SirDent takes the firecracker from under him and expands it to a stick of TNT before slipping it into pylos pocket.
There ya go pylos, a reaction.
Both actually Livelonger. Since you made the statement, I assume you have evidence to back it up.
SirDent: Take a look:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/11/07/us/20
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Unite
1) Evangelicals/born-agains go 24% Obama, presumably almost all the rest to McCain (third-party candidates didn't get more than 1.3% of the total vote)
2) Do the math. Obama won with 68 million votes out of 129 million cast.
Protestants: 45% x 51.3% x 129 million = 30 million Protestants voted for Obama
Catholics: 54% x 23.9% x 129 million = 16+ million Catholics voted for Obama
That's 46 million out of 68 million, not counting Mormons or other Christian sects. That's 2/3 or clearly more than half, of Obama voters were Christian.
hohoho...thats quite clever dentine...tnt haha...
I could have turned it into a suicide bomb pylos, but I would only be able to do it once.
You ask for proof, and then when I give it to you, you ignore it. That's disrespectful.
How many of those are real Christians Livelonger? Many state that they are Christian simply because they live in the US. Nonetheless, I digress. Thanks for the information.
yeah s dent, but you would have your 72 virgins...
There are no 72 virgins in heaven pylos.
pYLOS- aS USUAL SIRDENT( SIRLOIN?) Is still full of it! Who is he to doubt people who say they are Christians?Did God give him some ruler or meter to judge how christian a christian must be?
He even says there are no 72 virgins in heaven. Has he seen heaven? WTF does he know about anyone's faith but his own which by his post must be very shallow.
Peace OUt.
I appreciate all of you who have posted since I was gone. I will not interfere in the exchange between you because you are having a converstaion between yourselves. I would like to ask one thing though, wonderkatt, please call SirDent "SirDent" and stop calling him what you have been. It's childish. Let's play nice! If you are over 18 years old, please conduct yourself as such. Thanks!
Did you check out the link I posted ASU? It proves there are no virgins in heaven.
Yes! I'd say that that's proof positive! hahahahah
Hey Alshook- sirloin is a perfectly good hamburger meat. tasty and juicy. Since Sirdent has never actually , probably knighted by the Queen he may be more like the hamburger meat than the royals.( hope your health and your father-in law health is better)
Sirdent (Loin) I saw your cartoon and that is hardly proof of anything except your need to get out more.
You still have no proof of whats in heaven. There probably are 72 virgins in heaven cause they were virgins when they left here.
PeacE ouT
wonderkatt, I'm asking you to have some respect. We haven't seen you do anything of 'wonder' or 'wonderful', but we call you what your name is. Where in the Bible is your proof of the virgins waiting? What book and verse show this?
ASU, good descriptions of wonderkatt
http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Trolls-Among-Us
http://hubpages.com/hub/Trolls-Among-Us-2
SirDent, I posted on the Trolls 2 hub. Good job on that hub btw. And yes, you're right.
referring to your heading question alshook the answer is NO...why should obama be indebted to a herd of base right wing fanatical sheep when they spent all their nickels hovered together trying their damnedest to destroy him...your humble servant...pylos
pylos, if you had read any of my posts, you'd see that I said that as a joke. I don't want Obama thanking me for anything. Ummm.........might want to look up the defination of 'humble' before using it.
why bother...since you would most probably deny the dictionary definition...however, i am so grateful that you obviously lower your "christian status" to do dialog with we that do differ in opinion on what God's word is. your 'most' humble servant...pylos
Why do you say things like that? I was only asking that you be nicer to SirDent by calling him his name. I don't think that has to with what you believe or not. That's just being nice. No one on here has said that we are better or higher or anything else like that compared to anyone else. I take it sarcasm is one of your hobbies?
you said: i couldn't get a response out of these Christian fanatics if i lit a firecracker under 'em. and i am soooo bored.
Or is the hobby picking on people who are saved? Some would call that being a troll.
pylos26, you have now stepped over the line with your posting. You know exactly what you said and I denied your comment due to vulgar language. You are welcome to post on my hubs, but not to use vulgar remarks. That's not what this hub or any of my hubs are for. If you don't like what we have to say, then feel free to stop reading the hub. No one is forcing you to read any of my hubs.
Pylos, just so you know. ASU has ever right to deny whatever she chooses. She also has the right to click spam on comments that are inappropriate. If many of your comments are spammed, then you will be banned from commenting.
If you have something to say, say it. Do it in a civil manner instead of trying to get under everyone's skin. Trolling is such a shameful thing to do.
pylos, I deleted 1 single comment, that's it. And you know why I did it. I will not have a person on here talking about private body parts. It's not what this hub is about and it's not appropriate. You are not here to talk about this hub or any subject close to it. You are here to try to start trouble. I have not deleted any of your posts depsite that fact, until you lowered youself to being vulgar. It's out of common courtsey to the rest of the readers to have taken down your post. The post had nothing do to with the hub. It was just a personal attack on another poster and that's not appropriate. Play nice! Although you are showing that you are here just to be the opposite of nice. Please prove me wrong.
Real mature pylos. Maybe you should have run for president.
its quite silly to preach on these pages and not expect a rebuttal...pylos
pylos, I have been more than tolerant of you and wonderkatt in your trollism. It's about to stop. If you have something to post about the topic, then post it. If you are only going to be on here to make fun or/and attack other posters for their name/s, then don't bother to post. If you'd like to actually take part in the discussion, you are welcome to do that. I am not a dictator. I have noticed that you have gone to another hub or more and you do the same thing to there to people who believe and are saved. This is not the only hub you people spam. And, like one of the other hub writers, I will mark your posts as spam. I don't mind a rebuttal for the subject of the hub, but attacking and making fun of people's names is not the topic of this hub. You will not be vulgar on my hubs either if you want to post. That is not being a dictator, it's being polite to other posters who read and have class. No one with any class or tact wants to see the trash you 2 post. Again, people can post nicely and participate in the discussion of the subject of the hub. Attacking another poster is not going to be tolerated. We are not here for the sport of making fun/attacking other posters. I've seen you do it on other hubs, and your posts are not being tolerated there either. Please take a hint and stop being this way.
allshookup...if you do not allow or want other hubbers to post on your hub, then stop making it possible...i guess i have missed the word in merriam-webster's dictionary, but i cannot find a definition for your word "trollism", nor do i know what the slang means...just remember, it may be a sin to dangle a carrot in front of one and then jerk it back...you have made it clear that your preaching on hub pages is about to stop, by your quote ( "it's about to stop") so i will see it you are true to your word this time or if you choose to continue to lie...as before when half a dozen other hubbers caught you lying about you not deleting posts after others had already read them. it was clear to other hubbers that you continued to lie about the matter, even after they had shown proof to you...One even quoted to you that " it is also a sin to lie"...i am positive that it would not be a great task to simply scroll back and see the evidence still there in your hub where you accused the ACLU of being totally against the people...again, i read, comment ond post on lots of hubs because there are there...if you don't want me to post, then stop preaching on hubs and boasting about your condition...your humble servant, pylos
pylos, you are trolling. It's that simple. I have only deleted the posts that attack another hubber. The posts were about attacking and making fun of another hubber. I have not deleted any posts that are discussions about the subject of this hub. It does not bother me what you think of me or what I do. If hubpages thought it was not a good idea to have it to where posts being on a hubbers hub could be deleted, they would not have put that option there. I am not the only hubber who has had to take your posts off their hubs. That says a whole lot about you. I am not lying. The ACLU is against the rights of anyone who doesn't believe what they do. It's plain and simple. You tend to look around hubpages for Christian's hubs and spam them. Is there not a better use of your time? I'm sure anyone who writes hub would be glad to post and talk to you about the subject of their hubs, if only you'd talk about the subject and act like you were actually interested in the hub. You have never acted interested in this hub. You have only wanted to attack and make fun of posters. I will tell you once again, if you want people to post what you say, talk about the subject and try to stay somewhat human in your posting. What I said was about to stop is that I have allowed some of your trolling posts to stay on my hub. That is what is about to stop. Read what I wrote. You are apparently not reading. Might help if you read what was said and not just go into hubs to spam.
Pylos- I believe troll is a statement made to raise inflammatory response. Anyway here is the definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
countrywomen, He was called a troll because his posts were made to raise an inflammatory response. But, he knows this. He practices this on more hubs than mine. I have seen it. He comes on to hubs and says things just to upset people on the hub, then gets upset when things said (and he used vulgar language on this hub) doesn't get posted. It's fine with me that he doesn't agree with me on where I stand, but he should not talk like that on my or any other person's hub. If he'd like to talk about the subject, I'll be glad to. But he can't be doing things like he is and expect it to be posted. I have not deleted any posts that had to do with the subject of this hub. Only posts that were attacking another poster and that is vulgar. I wont allow people to post about private body parts on my hubs. None of my hubs are about that and none will be. Why not just talk about the subject of the hub? He knows well what a troll is.
pylos26 says:2 weeks ago
i couldn't get a response out of these Christian fanatics if i lit a firecracker under 'em. and i am soooo bored.
See what I mean? He's showing what he is by saying things like this. He spams for fun when he's bored. He said it himself. You can scroll back up and see when he posted this on this hub. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. You can see many of those opinions on this hub. And that's fine with me. But, he crosses the line in what he does on my hub and hubs of some other people on hubpages. Thanks for coming by countrywomen.
I had a great reply to that one ASU.
thank you countrywomen...i didn't realize it was a new term brought about by the age of computers...i noticed that allshookup neglected to mention her denying the deleting of post on her hub bashing the ACLU, after dozens of hubbers had seen it, when clearly she was quilty, as noticed by many...well, i'm certainly bored with this hub now...nothing but denial and rubbish...what on earth is this world coming to when 'so called' Christians think it is o.k. to lie...and repeatedly...no need to respond, countrywomen, unless you feel a need to...pylos
alshook- Sorry I thought my post were welll thought out and funny.
I find it curious that you have lumped me in with anther blogger and said we are "trolls". Is that the kinda name calling that you intend to censor?
Look, I only made fun of the idiots name. you need to get over yourself.
Censor me if you want but realize that the problem is that you are afraid of new ideas or different opinions.
I don't want to get censored so exaclty what do you call people like you?
PeACEouT
The internet has eyes katt. Also your IP address shows on comments and the author is able to view it. It isn't hard to get an email address from an IP either.
Great Hub with some great thought put into it and to me it is exactly on point. I voted for Obama but would have liked another choice. If it had not been for Palin I would have voted for McCain. But none of these canidates really seem to have America's biggest problems in mind. There are 33 million hungry Americans including 12 million hungry children. Then we have the homeless problem which includes 12.000 people still living in the streets in downtown New Orleans. Why was none of this brought up in the election.
ASU- I just refreshed my page saw the recent comments and since he/she wasn't aware of the term thought I would share what I know. I guess sometimes we say things without knowing the technical term for that. Anyway in general I do agree that one can disagree agreeably.
Pylos- You are welcome. In general asking a question in the forum can get you an immediate response (as their are many supportive hubbers online glad to share whatever they know).
Pylos when you use the word "guilty" then you are judging someone. Please try to understand where she is coming from before judging her(and if you are a guy using inappropriate language while talking to a lady certainly doesn't get you her attention as she said you used some "vulgar" words). There are certain hubs to which I don't agree and once some one calls me with an inappropriate word then I will not likely go to that place to engage in further conversation. This is her hub and she has a right to moderate the comments accordingly.
crazyhousesghost, Welcome. Thank you for reading and commenting. As you can see, this hub has got sidetracked, but I'm glad you have brought it back to it's subject. I wish we had had other options to vote for also. I would not have picked either of the ones running. I think you bring up a great point. We have so many people homeless here in the USA. Why is it that we never see a commerical about that? It's always about people in other countries. Why is that? Are homeless Americans not as important and homeless people from other countries? I live in Mississippi, so we have seen the damage from the hurricane. We still have people living here who are displaced by it. It was horrible. Why are there not more politicians wanting to help these people? Why not cut some of the salaries of the fatcats in Washington? I mean, they are hired by us to serve, right? Well, all that money they have a year plus all of that free swag they get from being an elected offical is a huge amount of money. How far would that money go toward our homeless and hungry? Maybe cut some of those Washington jobs that are not needed and use that money for a start? Why are so many Americans not concerned about these people? It could very easily be any of us! We are losing many many jobs in our state. Factories, which are a major income for many families here, are closing down. My mother goes on unemployment this month. Huge factories are closing. But, no other jobs are coming. So, where do these people go? Where do they get the money to buy food? We have an 'angel tree' here in town. It's a huge Christmas tree with paper angels on it with numbers on it. You go and pick and angel off the tree and then go find out what number you have and that's a family in need. They give you the information about how many family members are in the family, what size clothes they wear, shoes, etc, allergies so you don't buy things they can't eat or use, ages of the member of the family, things like that. It's kinda like adopting a family for Christmas. Then, you go buy whatever you want to for that family and bring it back to the tree with the information written down with what's in each package. They people there take the gifts with no names on it. No one knows who gets the angels names and buys. They family gets gifts and food and clothes they need. And we have helped someone in need. I am glad they stared this tradition. This is the 20th year our town has done this. And every year there are more angels on the tree, but every year, every one is bought for. But, I know that we are not reaching everyone we could. And with jobs leaving and layin off, it's going to have many more angels on there this year and it will be harder for people to buy for them due to this economy, I'm sure. But, it's a blessing to be able to do this. Thanks for bringing this up! It's a great question. I wonder if it's because the people who pad their pockets are not hungry and on the street with no home to go home to. So, they are not important to them? I know that's kinda cold, but I don't know what else the answer is. With more jobs leaving, this problem is going to grow. Thanks for commenting. Great points!!
countrywomen, thanks for giving him the link. Now he has no excuse for not knowing what a troll is. Thanks.
I also think we can disagree agreeably. But, when it comes to using vulgar language on my hub, I can't allow those posts. I'm sure you can understand that.
SirDent, don't let me posting stop you from posting what you want to say! That's an order! LOL
wonderkatt, Do you have something to post that has to do with this hub at all? Or you just trying to stir up trouble? Troll is not a vulgar name. I deleted things pertaining to a private body part. That's why it was not posted. I hgave said this repeatedly. I can't figure out why this is not understood.
well...i had left this hub as far as comments...but now i find myself in need of defense against yet another allegation (lie) spewed at me by the writer of this hub...allshookup...i have never used "vulgar" language in any of my post on this hub and i challenge you to prove your allegation of such an absurd and rediculous accusation...you should be ashamed, and all the time posturing as a Christian...i know that you have no proof of such a claim and i don't expect anything of substance in any proof you might offer...since you have discredited yourself so offen...
i have just one question that i'm going to ask you...and the answer need only be "yes" or "no" and then i intend to pay more attention to more deserving hubs...will you answer my question...???
pylos, you know what you said to have your post not posted. I will not put those words on my hub. I have not lied. You know this. Do you have something productive to add to this hub about the subject of what I wrote? If not, I am not sure why you came to this hub to begin with. Again, I will not allow words about private parts to be put on my hubs. Period. It doesn't matter whether it's you or any one else, it doesn't matter who does it, it will not be posted.
alshook- Ok I'll play. How does Obama owe you anthing since you didn't support him or vote for him? Sounds like you got an over-inflated since of value about yourself.
Peace OUt.
wonderkatt, Please read the posts before asking a question that has already been addressed. I have explained more than once on here that I said that as a joke. If you would read the hub and the posts, you would understand. Thanks.
well...it is as i expected...you refuse to answer one question...and it has nothing to do with your favorite idea of vulgarity...
If you have a question about the hub, then ask it.
you have to promise to answer it with a "yes" or "no". and to not delete it unless it is socially unacceptable...
sorry, double post
If you're gonna ask something, just ask it. I'm not going to promise anything because I don't know what you are up to.
i just don't want you to simply ignore my question, and unless you promise to answer it that might happen...and im not "up to" anything...except to ask you a simple civil question that requires a simple civil answer...
If you ask me a civil question, I will give you a civil answer. The reason I can't promise you anything is becasue I've seen how you treated SirDent. But, if you are civil, I will not ignore your question and will answer it.
please remember what you promised, that you would asnwer yes or no only...
and please...just let your conscience be your guide...Here is the question.
Do you believe that blatant liars will be allowed into heaven...???
Is that person saved? I need to know that first. Usually a person who lies blantantly is not saved. So, is the person you are referring to saved or not? I believe the only sin that will send a person to hell is not accpeting Jesus as Savior. So, in order to answer that question, I need to know more detail. Is that person saved or not?
claims to be...yes...remember the yes or no answer...
If the person is really saved, then they will go to Heaven. Humans sin. So, yes, they'd go to Heaven since they are saved.
well...if that is not a serendipitous answer i've never heard one...and quite shocking...in that case honesty, decency, fairness, goodness and all the good things go unmerited and can just as easily be thrown down the toilet...and as long as one has been "saved" one may cheat, steal, rape, murder, curse, committ adultry or anything else and recieve an open gate into heaven...facinating...absolutely facinating...and your religion does tolerate blantant lying as a "no obsticle" upon intering through the pearly gates...
i am having a huge problem digesting what i have just heard from you as your answer to my question. surely to goodness you can not be serious...
What if a person is saved and they were to get Alzheimer's? God will not keep them out of Heaven. Can you understand that? It's like if a baby dies or someone who is mentally not able to understand how to be saved. Although, if the person with Alzheimer's is not saved before they get the disease and die, they wont go to Heaven. God will not keep those who are 'safe' out of Heaven.
What you said about works, works cannot get you to heaven, no matter how many you do. If you do all the works Mother Teresa did, that still wont get you there. It's about having Jesus in your heart. Although, if you are saved, you will want to do good things and not bad ones. If you are saved, you would not want to be a blainant liar, but there are circumstances which you might be, like getting Alzheimer's.
well...you have danced all around my last post without acknowledging anything i said..."works", "works", who in the world are you referring to and what are you talking about...i think you just implied that mother teresa is in hell...
are you not of sound mind...???
I told you that if a person has Jesus in their heart, that yes, they would go to Heaven. You are the one who brought up works. Fairness, deceny, goodness, etc etc are all works. Works are as dirty rags in the sight of God unless you are saved. If mother teresa did not accept Jesus Christ as her Savior, then no, she's not in Heaven. Only Jesus can get anyone to Heaven. Works will get no one there. But, you can't expect people who are saved to be perfect. Just because Jesus lives in a person's heart, that doesn't make them perfect. And no one can expect it or use that as an excuse for not being saved. That's a cop out. I've seen it said over and over on the forum. That some people there don't want Jesus beause of how His followers act. If those people keep using that excuse, and not accept Jesus, they'll go to hell. It's not my rules. It's God's.
i had no idea that the word 'works' had been hyjacked by your religion...and painted to represent something other that is defined in merriam-webster's dictionary. i'm getting waaay more information here than i subscribed to. i don't believe you stuck to your promise to answer my question as simply yes or no...but i do understand now that promises mean very little to you...i'm tired of talking to you...i don't wanna talk no more...you've wasted too much of my time...i'm outta here...
I'm sorry that you can't understand what I said.
Here you go Pylos. A good answer to your question. Heaven will be full of liars.
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Hey SirDent. Great to see you! Thanks for your comment. Right on target with that Scripture.
I really enjoyed your comment there allshookup also. Really interesting information. Something else I found out the other day is that the most people who had ever applied for Food Stamps in the USA applied during the month of November and today I see on the news massive new jobs cuts. I don't know where its all going to end up but I see some really hard times ahead for a lot of Americans. We are right now doing care packages for the New Orleans homeless. We also operate several local food pantries and the demand is greater than we have ever had. I'm not sure what the politicians can or will do. I write to every US Senator almost daily and only Senator Ted Kennedy has answered and he is quite ill. The other ones ignore me. But I keep writing to them.
crazyhorsesghost, Good to see you again! Same thing is going on here. Our food panty is church is stretched to it's limit. And more people calling everyday. We have been really blessed with having as much food and clothing as we do. I hope we can continue to be able to do what we are doing now. I have talked to Roger Wicker (senator) from here. I think I'll follow your lead and call and email more of our elected officials. I so hate to think of children not having a good Christmas. Not to mention how hard this must be on parents stressing over how they will pay bills and buy food. Thanks for that info. I hope more people read your post and follow your lead. Thanks so much!!! Bless you!! Please come by anytime.
Crazyhorsesghost & Allshookup, can I suggest that the reason there is no attention given to the growing destitute class in the US is simply that there is nothing more that can be stolen from them by the super-rich controllers. (I don't want to categorise the super-rich as capitalists - it's gone beyond that old left-right debate). These people are only interested in promoting consumerism (spending and borrowing) among the middle classes. Once they have sucked them dry too and added them to the growing destitute masses, they have no further use for them and look for new victims, usually abroad. When finally they run out of victims, they demand government bail-outs to keep their system running.
Instead of bailing out the super-rich corporate & banking classes, society needs to look after its poorer and needy people first. And who knows - if you lift someone from despair, they may be able to make a contribution. But whenever such radical ideas are suggested in US, people run scared shouting 'Socialism'. Let's all cool down, ease up on bipolarity, and look at what needs to be done for a change. Now that would be 'Change'!
I recieved a very disturbing email from someone on hubpages. Not sure why the email was sent but I think I should post the address here so you can keep a look out for it.
videoproducer125@yahoo.com
SirDent, I appreciate it. I will keep an eye out for that. Thank you for your concern and support. It means a lot to me.
I posted the email addy in hopes that spam bots will pick it up. Not a nice thing to do really so you can delete it if you want. I just hate spam, threats and insults in emails.
Paraglider, Thank you for reading and commenting. Sad isn't it? A lot of churches and businesses here are trying to help with feeding and clothing people and giving Christmas gifts, paying electricity bills, water bills, etc for people who don't have the money for it. But there's only so much the private population can do. We need to get our elected officials involved in this. They are supposed to be working for us since we elected them. Besides emailing and calling them, I don't know what to do. We are giving here, but like I said, we can only do so much. We don't have the $$$$$ that it would take to help every person. Think about what all that money for the bailouts could do to help these people. Or if some of those elected officials who talk about helping 'everyone' would cut back on their salaries and payoffs. Our country is quickly turning into one that is upper-class and lower-class and no middle class. I'm very worried about what the upcoming years hold for us. I see many commericals a day on Ameican TV asking for money to feed children in other countries. I can't understand why those people are not concerned about the children here in the US. I know that you are not from here. But, if it were in your country, you'd think your country would be concerned about it's own children too. Before they would another countries. I wonder if it's because they don't want those ugly pictures out there about the USA. But, whether they want them out there or not, they are there and they are real and their numbers are growing due to our economy. We need to stop electing people who only have a pocketbook and no heart. Thanks for your comment.
SirDent, I'm sorry you got that. It's mean of whoever it is. They need to be found out and delt with.
I think it is because of world citizenship. You see that term used quite often lately. I truly believe that before much longer the currency of the US will be made null and void. A new currency will take it's place and will involve other nations as well.
I am not sure what the new currency will be but it is possible that is will be Euros. It is hard to say at this time really.
I know who it was ASU. In the email I was told that you could not censor what the person sent me. I supposed it didn't dawn on the person that I could censor it myself by dropping it in the garbage bin. I also know that he/she doesn't have my email address because they went through the contact form on HP.
Oh well, maybe one day they will learn. If enough spam bots hook up with that email address, it will be worth it to me. :P
I just had a mean thought. I could use that addy to sign the person up for a lot of spam. LOL, I don't think I'll do that though.
I agree. I feel we are headed to a one world currancy quickly. Sign of the times. Means He's getting closer!
Well the normal solution in Europe is welfare. Govt officials can only work with taxpayers money (and debt). Recently in the US we've seen that their priority is to give to the rich and ignore the poor. But whenever someone suggests the obvious wrongheadedness of this, they get called a socialist. Worth noting that socialist is only an insult in US. In the Eurozone it's respectable politics :)
((But whenever someone suggests the obvious wrongheadedness of this, they get called a socialist. Worth noting that socialist is only an insult in US. In the Eurozone it's respectable politics :)))
SirDent: I didn't know that Paraglider. It is good info to know. Thanks. I will admit that I know very little about socialism other than the propaganda that I have read here and there. I also say that it doesn't really interest me to study it out at this time. In fact, I could care less about it.
SirDent, I'm glad that you know who it is. I hope what you are doing works.
Paraglider, I want our poor helped, but I don't think taking money from the rich and middle-class is the answer. I think more jobs is a good start. Our jobs are leaving daily here. Thus, making more people lose thier homes. I just wrote a hub yesterday about this kinda. Too many jobs to China and Mexico, things like that has put many on the streets. Also all this bailout stuff for the rich when that money could be used to bring back jobs and help people get off of welfare. There are so many willing to work if they only had jobs. Thanks again for your comments.
ASU, Perhaps someone should start a campaign to promote goods manufactured in the USA. The jobs are going elsewhere because those countries have cheaper labour costs, and people (especially those already struggling) will mostly choose a cheap import over a more expensive home-manufactured item. The answer is either trade embargos or a buy American campaign.
I'd lean toward buy American-made products, for a number of reasons. There is an organization here doing just that. They have lists of products made here and those made elsewhere and are encouraging people to buy things here. But, like you said, with the economy so bad, people are having to look for the cheaper products at times. But, we are trying to buy American made. It's sad that you have to look and look for those products in an American store, but you do. It takes longer to shop and is a little more expensive, but worth it if you are able to do that. Thanks for reading and commenting.
Paraglider seems to have ther Robinhood spirit. Just kidding PG.
The only way ot straighten things out in the US is to get back to our roots. At one time this nation was rooted and grounded on Biblical principles regardless of what anyone else thinks or says. Until we get back to that, we will continue the slide downhill with no brakes.
We worry so much about what other nations think of us. We worry about what other nations financial situations are and hlep them while we have people going hungry here.
This one nation has the resources to feed the whole world. Farmland is not being used because of Goverment subsidies. (I think that's the right word) Farmers are paid not to farm. The biggest problem is what I said earlier in another comment. It all falls back to greed.
Pro 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work.
No this country was not founded on bible principals. was it the bible that led americans to have slavery? Was it the bible that led america to erdicte the native americans? How about the wars we had? Is that following the bible? No you like most of america wrap yourself in the bible when you need it and do waht you want and blame it on god.
Peacer OUt
Robin Hood (who nevr really existed!) took from the rich to give to the poor. Perhaps the taking was wrong but the giving was right. And the taking would not have been necessary if the rich had done their fair share of giving without being forced. So yes, I have the Robin Hood spirit and am proud of it!
PG,
Is the taking wrong, Whether you believe in God or not, we all agree that each human is born of the same measure,
That said is a Rich thief more entitled to the spoils than a poor thief.
A thought to ponder.
TMG
wonderkatt, we blame nothing on God. God has only done good. It's us humans who have done the messing up. God can't mess up, He's perfect. This country was founded on Biblical principles. We have just come very far from it. Again, our fault. And now we are seeing how this nation fares when not following God's teachings.
PG, It's not right to take from those who have worked for it. There are other solutions than putting the whole country on walfare. It's just making a lazy non-deserving country to do that. Having poor people does not justify us stealing from those who are rich.
TheMoneyGuy, Thanks for reading and commenting. I agree that we do not need the taking from one class to give to another to make us all with no class. I feel it would be a huge mistake for our country. We have elected the wrong people and have come far from where God wants us. And look what is happening now to us. Thanks for commenting.
ASU - taxation isn't stealing, because it is legitimate. No-one 'works for' or deserves a billion dollars. Only a corrupt system makes such personal fortunes possible. It is absolutely right that the super rich should be required to help the rest of society. We're not talking about creating equality, merely reducing extreme inequality. What's wrong with that?
Paraglider, the Robinhood comment was just a joke. I also understood what you meant by taking from the rich and giving to the poor.
wonderkatt, how well do you know US history?
We are what you'd call lower-middle class, I guess. I'm not sure what income qualifies you for what class exactly. Sure, I'd love to have money to pay off our bills so my husband wouldn't have to get up at 3:30am to go to work and work until 6pm or so, 6 days a week. We never see him. He has firbromyalgia, he has passed over 70 kidney stones this year alone and we found out last week he has more than 10 stones in his kidneys right now, and he has several vertebrae in his back that is deterroriating, therefore he hurts 24 hours a day. And buffing all day long and standing on concrete only adds to the pain. So, I asked him about this idea Obama has about taking money from the rich and giving it to those woh don't have as much as they do. Since he is the one who works, and I can't, (I have a 2 foot blood clot which renders me unable to work. I am laying down much of the time due to this) I wanted to know his feelings on it. He said that he'd rather live like this than have Obama take from those who have more and give it to us who don't have as much. Although he hurts like he does, he only wants what he works for. He believes what the Bible says about working. He feels that Obama's plan is only going to make US citizens lazy. He asked why Obama is telling there are going to be more jobs when he plans on putting everyone on walefare and making the whole US population dependent on the government. Which I think is a good question. Why claim he is making more jobs if everyone is going to be on walefare?
wonderkatt, you are talking about my husband and the father of our son. You WILL NOT talk about him like that on my hubs. That was uncalled for. And disrespectful. I was trying to show that he is a hard worker and doesn't want walfare. You have no idea the cost of the medical supplies that I HAVE to have to stay alive that insurance doesn't pay for, therefore my husband has to pay for out of pocket. Apparently, you don't even care. What you said was mean and spiteful. There are many hard-working Americans who want to remain just that....hard-working. And you should be respectful of them. You are only here to start trouble. You do not want to particiate in the conversation. You want to troll. And if you act like a troll, you'll be treated as one. This is your decision.
alshook- See its just like you guys. You personalize a subject and then get acrimous if any one has a different view. Just because your husband has a disease and has to work well, it doesen't make him God or smart.
He's just another story out there. No more no less. You on the other hand are using his disability as a crutch for your views and you lack of propective on this issue.
You gotta think. Your husband has to think too.
I hope he feels better but his lack of insight on this issue is regretable.
Now troll that!
PeaceOUt
alshook- i noticed that you censored my response to s-dent. Since there were no insults why? See when you start playing god it's hard to stop huh?
Now will all dissenting posts see your retentative deletes?
Peace OUt
To allshookup,
I'm a new hubber! Your concerns and beliefs are consistent with mine.
Keep up the good work.
God bless.
You are obviously a thinker - we have way too few thinkers in this country that stop to think about the consequences of their decisions. They go with the emotion of the moment. I can see a lot of education still needs to happen.
einron says:
13 months ago
allshookup,
Very well said. I am not an American and have no say in the voting. However, look at Judges 21:25 "Every man did that which was right in his own eyes."
1 Samuel 8:7 states, "And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee; for they have not rejected thee for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them."
The voters have not rejected the Republican Party but rejected the laws of God, namely, killing (abortion), same sex marriages and not acknowledging that Christ is the only way to salvation. See Isaiah 4:1: Seven Women and One Man. Professing to be Christians in name only, but not in action.
God gives us the freedom to choose and the voters have chosen. That is the Lord's will. God does not impose His will on the public. Each one must choose according to his/her own will. The majority wins in the election, and must face whatever the consequence may be.
God bless.