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Facebook Owns My Stuff? I DON'T THINK SO! - And Update

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By Frieda Babbley


I've got my files. They've got theirs.

In This Hub:

  • signing up on facebook
  • an average user's facebook expectations ~ privacy and trust
  • What's the fuss, was your uploaded and posted stuff ever really Yours in the first place?
  • informative links
  • Take a Poll
  • googling facebook
  • Facebook has a change of heart?


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En Route to facebook via MySpace

I have not been a Facebook user for very long. Only about, oh, six months.

For years I had been searching for old friends, wondering where they were, and what they've been up to. I joined myspace, thinking something would happen there. It seemed pretty cool, and it was. It was fun designing and "pimping" my profile page, blogging, befriending bands and personalities I thought were way cool... (The obscure ones really writing back, for real.)

But where were my old girlfriends? Looking for guy friends, piece of cake; if you search and they're out there you will find. Girl friends, on the other hand change their names, and sometimes more than once. Unless you have their old address and phone number and they still work and their parents still live there, you can seek, but you will not find.

One day I just took the leap. After multiple disappointments of searching the web for anything that would take me down memory lane, like Classmates.com, etc. I found many dead ends. I certainly did not want to pay Classmates.com, or anywhere else for that matter, to find my friends or just to be able to look at their profiles or their supposed messages to me. (Not to mention my McAfee threw up a big red flag about Classmates.com. So no.)

Deciding I should find an alternative way to connect, and deciding also that I wanted to start my own business in the near future, I decided to opt into becoming a facebook user. This would be a good form of exposure to future networking I may want to partake of. Not to mention, Ellen's on facebook!


Personal and Confidential?
Personal and Confidential?

Signing up on facebook and Getting Started

Sign up, on facebook, was quick and easy. I felt like my information would be kept private. I felt good about it. I felt like I actually found a space where my personal information would be private to all until, and unless, I "accepted" friendship from my long lost friends, and as it ends up, my newer friends and acquaintances (whom I would not have otherwise been able to socialize with due to schedule conflicts). It gave me privacy options. Plus, it was free. So I joined.

Sure I felt a little miffed at the fact that my info had to be verified; but wasn't that a good thing? And if they were going to go through all the trouble of making sure I was legit, then they were doing that for everyone, so I wouldn't be getting a bunch of people that weren't real, or didn't really know me and hadn't heard of me, asking to be friends with me. I wouldn't come across people with a name like "soforreal" (fake pseudonym, if it's yours I had no idea, sorry.)

It was a bit difficult finding people at first. If for example I signed in as being in a particular city's network, but a long lost friend was in a completely different city, I would have to search quite a bit to find her. Facebook suggested people I might know, which helped a lot in the beginning. The more friends you find from other networks, the more suggestions are placed in front of you, so in the end you can finally find who you are looking for and they can find you. In a nutshell, there may have been some kinks, but I felt like my privacy was protected by facebook at all times, and that so was the privacy of my friends and acquaintances.

Privacy, to me, also meant that my stuff was my stuff. So to me, all my info was mine. My uploaded photos were mine. My websites and personal info were mine and belonged to me. The things I wrote and my comments, belonged to me. My "status" was mine too, right?.

ReutersVideo "Facebook controversy" ~ Privacy and Trust on the Web

2008 "User Content" under my facebook "Terms of Use"

from:

Terms of Use

Last revised on 23 September 2008

When you post User Content to the Site, you authorise and direct us to make such copies thereof as we deem necessary in order to facilitate the posting and storage of the User Content on the Site. By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide licence (with the right to sublicence) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorise sublicences of the foregoing. You may remove your User Content from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the licence granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content. Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content.

 

OMG!  It's Cheryl from highschool!  Awesome!  I haven't seen her in ages.  Wonder if she knows her facebook stuff is cloned!?
OMG! It's Cheryl from highschool! Awesome! I haven't seen her in ages. Wonder if she knows her facebook stuff is cloned!?

So Does this Mean My Stuff, My Privacy, is or isn't Owned By Me?

I thought it was. They said so in my 2008 agreement. "We care about the privacy of our users." Sweet!

Also according to my 2008 agreement: "Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content."

Now, looking closer at it, I see that what they probably mean to say, based on context as it appears in the paragraphs (viewable above), is that I own the rights to me and my stuff, but not to copies of my stuff; IE. I don't really have rights over the stuff that originated as mine but are no longer mine because they are in facebook's archive.

In other words,

  • My stuff that I physically, personally have... MINE
  • Their copies of my stuff that they physically, personally have... THEIRS

Hmmm. Tricky.

Who, though, is really going to nitpick on stuff like this? "What would facebook want with little old Me's stuff anyway," they're going to think. Your average facebook applicant is not going to think about archives and ghost copies. After all, the world of facebook is A.O.K., right? It's safe. It's secure. It's a place to network and commercialize yourself.  Right?  Right?

Could you be signing away rights to your stuff?  Always make sure you understand what you are agreeing too.  Once you've commited yourself, you have no excuses.
Could you be signing away rights to your stuff? Always make sure you understand what you are agreeing too. Once you've commited yourself, you have no excuses.

How do my 2008 Terms of Use Differ From the One Causing the Current Mid-February 2009 Controversy?

Apparently even if and after you break ties with facebook, according to their new terms, they do not have to break their ties with your stuff. Take a listen to the following podcast or click on here to get to Facebook Users Angry Over Change In Legal Terms.


from the offices of facebook
from the offices of facebook
This is what NPR has on file.  But when you click, you are taken to the older 2008 due to a quick move on the part of facebook.
This is what NPR has on file. But when you click, you are taken to the older 2008 due to a quick move on the part of facebook.

So what is facebook doing to ease the situation with their New Terms?

Getting into your facebook pages may be a bit slow and tedious for a few days. It seems that those who are as well as those who aren't members of facebook are checking out the Terms of Use, so it's a bit crowded on the facebook servers.

Once you do get in, you won't notice the new 2009 version of facebook's Terms of Use. (At least not at the time this hub is being written.) Why? It seems facebook has decided, under the circumstances, to hold off on posting the new terms. Or rather in their own words:

"Conditions d'utilisation

Close

Over the past few days, we have received a lot of feedback about the new terms we posted two weeks ago. Because of this response, we have decided to return to our previous Terms of Use while we resolve the issues that people have raised. For more information, visit the Facebook Blog.

If you want to share your thoughts on what should be in the new terms, check out our group Facebook Bill of Rights and Responsibilities."

This is what they have currently posted on the top of my homepage on facebook, on the afternoon of Feb. 18th 2009, giving me the option to close the note of information.

Hopefully this is very good news and facebook will be able to come to some sort of agreement with their users. 

AssociatedPress February 18, 2009 - Facebook Backtracks on Terms of Use

Google it...

If you google facebook, you'll find that somewhere around fifth place is "News results for facebook." Since googling facebook is how I get onto my facebook page, I notice this every day. At least the corner of my eye does. When I do notice, however, I notice. Sometimes with a chuckle, but other times with "is facebook for real?" At any rate, facebook has been surrounded in controversy since I joined, that I know for sure.

But then, aren't most famous people?  And should you really be sharing anything in facebook that you don't want seen anyway?  It seems photos are the biggest concern amongst facebook users.  hmmm.  I wonder what we'd find in their fb albums.

Personally, I love my facebook.  I connected, I've had fun, I've shared.  I guess it's up to you to decide if facebook, or anywhere for that matter, is right for you.  There is an upside and a downside to everything, after all.

Facebook has a change of heart?

 Apparently so.  Since the writing of this hub, (perhaps not due to it, but one never knows who they influence) facebook has retracted their new policies. 

Mark Zuckerberg has even posted a blog about this and facebooks intentions for any possible future changes.  Check out this page LINK sent to me by my dear awesome wonderful hub friend Christoph Reilly.

You may be interested in:

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Poll for Facebook Users

Concidering the new terms of use, which would you be most weary of doing now...

  • posting photos
  • taggin others in photos
  • post links and other personal information
  • subscribe to applications found on facebook
  • recommend Facebook to friends
  • posting notes
  • posting posts
  • cancel your account even though facebook still owns all the stuff you ever had in there before you deleted your account?
  • None of the above. I still feel great about my facebook
See results without voting

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Comments

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kpfingaz profile image

kpfingaz  says:
10 months ago

I heard that they sell your email addresses and thats how they make their money. I guess if you're recieving spam and stuff in your mail box that someone bought your email address from someone who has it. Could it be facebook? Anyways, its just hearsay so don't take me too seriously. I havent' looked into this.

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

I have been wondering if it was facebook or the application that can be sent back and forth between friends. Always made me say... hmmm 'cause I never got any spam until after I joined.

Elena. profile image

Elena.  says:
10 months ago

Hello Frieda!!  Welcome to HP!! 

Thanks so MUCH for this eye opener about facebook!  Gosh!  Who knew!  That'll teach me to read those goddanged long and boring terms and conditions pages!!  I'm very tempted to take down pretty much all the photos I have there...  thumbs up for a very informative article! 

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

Thanks Elena. I know. I was sort of stunned at first, which I shouldn't have been had a analyzed more thoroughly. I wanted to go into so much stuff, but I controlled myself and kept to the specific topic at hand. Good thing this isn't a podcast or I'd be all over the place. LOL. Glad you enjoyed this piece. Thanks for commenting! (I love comments.)

Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly  says:
10 months ago

Hi Frieda. Thanks for this very informative and well presented article! The layout is fantastic. I am recently on Facebook, signed up to network for my writing. Didn't do much with it at first, then I became friends with one old friend and suddenly there were lot's of us. Anyhow, does this mean if you post a link to your blog, that they own the blog itself? That's friggin scary..and wrong. I haven't posted anything yet, except my avatar which I am trying to use as a brand. Maybe not such a good idea. Thanks for a great read!

P.S. Will you be my friend? Ha!

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

Thanks for sharing Christoph. Yeah, that's the same thing that happened to me with my friend situation. It was so unexpected and amazing.

As to your other questions, facebook owns rights to the copy that they will have of you avatar. You're sublicinsing anything you post, to facebook. It's really kind of mind boggling because they're offering you a place to network, but what you network in a sence becomes theirs too, well, their copy of your networking. But for what they give you (that incredible networking opportunity) we just dive in and think/assume that the pros are so much greater than the cons and what would they want with my stuff anyway. Now, they won't use your avatar as their own avatar, but they can use it to promote themselves, as in the "possibility" of using your stuff for other purposes. This is how I'm understanding it. I'd definitely go back and read those terms of use you can find in a couple of the links I have above, (as well as get to from your facebook page or through searches,) and also click into and read the links facebook itself provides you within those terms of use. Read slow and careful and analyze every single sentence, not just the ones written in words that an average reader can understand.

The debate, of course, now, is that with the new terms they were wanting to use, they were saying that even if you stopped using facebook, anything they had on you would still be theirs. I've got my blogs and my work site on there too, and basically I am saying that I have the right to do so and that I also have the rights to "sublicensce" that info to facebook. I don't know what they'd want with my stuff in the end, but they are not giving specific possibilities either.

Yeah, it was an interesting topic to research, that's for sure. Thanks for reading and enjoying. And sure, I'll be your friend. (If you're serious about that, let me know =).

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

Okay Christoph. Is this a small world or what? I'm in St. Louis too! Freaky! I thought you looked familiar. Dang and wow!

Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly  says:
10 months ago

Frieda:  Thanks for the answer.  I think you are saying that, No, they don't own my blog if I post a link to it, but if I were to post an actual writing from my blog, they would own that.  I won't probably be going to read all the legal mumbo jumbo.  Who has the time?  Anyway, !thanks for your answer.  Now to other things...

I didn't read your profile last night.  The world gets smaller.  I went to Webster too!  Way back when it was still a College instead of a University.  I used to occasionally  do shows at the Rep, but not for a long time.  But you were kidding about my face looking familiar, right?  Thing is, it could've from local commercials, plays, etc. Anyway, haven't done that stuff for a few years.  Now I prefer behind the scenes.

It's great to meet you.  What a trip! And sure, let's do become Facebook friends. Why not?

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

That's right. That's what I'm talking about (mumbo jumbo). Yes it does. OMG. No I'm not, you do look familiar but I can't figure out why so I guessed that must be it. Great to me you too. Sounds great I already sent request with note.

Very cool. Hope you got all that. =)

Elena. profile image

Elena.  says:
10 months ago

Of course now I feel left out, what with all this St Louis friends business  SNIFFFF

Laugh!  Ain't it a small world, after all?  What a cool thing :-)

Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly  says:
10 months ago

Elena:  You're from Madrid?  Why I went to Universidad Europea de Madrid! I studied bull fighting! What a crazy, small world!

Anna Marie Bowman profile image

Anna Marie Bowman  says:
10 months ago

I have heard a lot about this, and what I don't understand is what they plan on doing with this information. Are they going to sell it? Is my personal information up for sale to the highest bidder? It scares me a little, and now, I'm reconsidering staying on Facebook, or at least, being more careful about what I put up there.

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

Elena, don't feel bad. you don't have to be from St. Louis to be in with the in crowd (although it helps).

Christoph, you're kidding about the bull fighting, right? I'm thinking probably so. A friend of mine is going to the "running with bulls" (as I like to call it) this year. A brave soul. Talk about a rush though, huh? I think I'd be rushing out of Spain right about then, or hiding in a deserted alley, praying to myself that the crowd doesn't rush past any time soon so that I can be spared.

And Anna, so crazy that you commented when you did because I was just reading your liberals hub! Funny stuff!

What a weird day.

Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly  says:
10 months ago

Yea. I'm kidding about the bull fighting. I dropped out because I couldn't stand the pants. A little tight in the crotch. Elena is a good friend. In fact, she's also my facebook friend. Hey, we had a mutual friend, Rob Wetzel. We were good friends in High School. Haven't seen or talked too much since then, but some.

Anna Marie Bowman profile image

Anna Marie Bowman  says:
10 months ago

I spent some time in St. Louis! I have family out that way, in Alton, IL. (I wanted to feel included...LOL!) Today has been a wierd day, I agree. I have spent the whole day on the computer, which I don't normally do.

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

So Reilly, I don't blame you about the pants. I don't think anyone but Gwen Stefani can look good in them anyway.

And Anna, Alton is close enough. Welcome to the circle of trust.

Elena. profile image

Elena.  says:
10 months ago

Howdo, folks!  Good to know I can be "in" even when I'm so blatantly OUT our your league! Laugh!  Frieda, I'm going to search you out on FB posthaste, that'll make me feel better, though saying this precisely in this hub is a rather doubtful pronouncement!

In truth, Christoph dropped out because he couldn't find a good "stage" name to become a bullfighter.  That, plus his idol Humphry Bogart telling him not to wear those pants if he didn't want to become the laughing stock of all the tough guys that ever existed.  Laugh!

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

Oh that would be awesome, Elena. We should all be in a facebook commercial. I can see it now:

"Facebook. Don't be left out. Show your face, and your smokin' hot talequilla. Be on the in, on facebook. (You may not trust us, but you can always trust your friends)."

Lgali profile image

Lgali  says:
10 months ago

good hub

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

Thanks Lgali. And thanks for coming by and commenting.

JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee  says:
10 months ago

Hey, I lived in St Louis for a couple of years!  But it was several years after high school and I went to college somewhere else, so no chance I knew any of you there.  :( But I know you here. ;)))))

Frieda, great hub.  Think I'm glad I'm still clueless about the "wonders" of FB and haven't done much on it but register and upload a real photo (not the avatar I use everywhere else).

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

How cool is that. I noticed your profile says midwest USA like mine does and I always wondered about that. I thought, nah, what would be the chances. If you find me on FB, by all means please feel free to friend me. I'd like that.

Glad you enjoyed. Thanks for reading!

The Real Tomato profile image

The Real Tomato  says:
10 months ago

Your Hub has more information than any network put out on the subject.

This does seem to come as a surprise for some but it is becoming common internet practise. I think we should re-read our Terms with other sites. Since 2005 Yahoo!Answers takes ownership of everything you post- I am sure there are more.

Great Hub, Frieda.

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
10 months ago

Thanks Tomato! And you're absolutely right about it being common practice. I know that a lot of people won't read their terms, though, and then wonder why they were wronged.

I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT YAHOO!ANSWERS. Thanks for the info there. Someone should write a hub on that. Make a general request.

Keep it real, F.B. (Sorry, I had to.)

Laughing Mom profile image

Laughing Mom  says:
9 months ago

How do I miss this stuff????

Lissie profile image

Lissie  says:
6 months ago

Fascinating hub - I had no idea they took the copywrite of stuff posted - not that I do much more than flog my other online links there. In fact its a weird place cause I have connected to people I know for real there - while every other social site I am on its just purely for virtual friends and internet marketing

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
6 months ago

It is weird that way. It's what makes them able to get away with so much. People should be really careful of the aps as well. Unless they have it set otherwise, every time to accept an ap, you're allowing the ap to get hold of all your friends' stuff, including personal information they have posted and photos.

Elena. profile image

Elena.  says:
6 months ago

That's why I don't get into buying drinks or accepting them, nor do I care for cute love hearts, or popularity contests and what not :-) In fact, seeing this in hubtivity reminded me I needed to get rid of a couple of apps! :-)

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
6 months ago

I know. Same here. Besides which, they pile up. The only ones I'm keeping are the green patch and the blue cove.

sixtyorso profile image

sixtyorso  says:
6 months ago

Big Brother. George Orwell. It's all starting to become true! Scarey stuff.

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
6 months ago

Isn't it though? Man before his time.

Glenn Stok profile image

Glenn Stok  says:
6 weeks ago

Great report. For some time now, I've been trying to delete my Facebook account and remove myself from Facebook entirely. They refuse to let me do that and they continue to keep my inactive account online anyway for people to find, as if I was really there. I wonder how phony their user count is that they claim, trying to make themselves worth more than they are.

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley  says:
6 weeks ago

Interesting Glenn. You bring up a very good point. It's such a shame, isn't it. They know the connection is to many fairly important and useful, but there's no privacy or fairness. Oh now I could go into the whole thing again. And also, let me just add to your not being able to actually sever yourself from facebook, I don't think you have to be who you say you are to open an account in the first place. Pretty freaky for as superior and trusting as they make themselves out to be. Thanks for reading and for the comment, Glenn.

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