For Unhappily Married Men - Kids Change Everything
87
DIVORCE
THERAPY
RE-FINANCE
You're Not Alone
I posted a HUB not long ago called Affairs with Married Men, where I addressed an email I received from a married man's mistress who called herself "Lonely". I was pretty firm, pointing out all the reasons why she and her married liar are in the wrong, and why she should move on.
As a response to that HUB, I received 2 comments from jilted wives that I did not post, 5 emails from wives wanting to vent or wanting to get more information because they thought Lonely's affair was with their husbands, 2 emails from married men that were miserable, and finally one comment from an unhappily married man asking for advice. Everyone I'm referring to said they had kids.
So much attention gets its own HUB! So here it is.
Let me start by saying I love your comments and emails. I appreciate your readership and I reply to every email I receive. Anyone is welcomed to write and Ask Me Anything. My 3 martini answer may be harsh but it will always be honest.
The only comments I do not post are:
- Ones with messages of hate, judgment, & intolerance. Fuck you, haters. It's not gonna happen here.
- Or ones that contain name calling and attacks. Your otherwise valuable message is lost when you wish evil things on a total stranger.
The emails and comments on Affairs with Married Men all described a similar scenario. A husband and wife get married. They have kids. They have debt. The man gets miserable, and goes elsewhere for happiness.
"Angry Wife" said that they were living paycheck to paycheck, she was a stay-at-home-mom, and they had 4 kids when her husband left her for another woman.
"Fatal Attraction" said she didn't want her children being raised by strangers so she quit her lucrative career to stay at home with their 2 kids. Her husband left her for a woman that did what she used to do at work.
"Bill" related to the comments made by Lonely's lover about his wife: pitiful, clingy, and dependent. His wife wouldn't work but wanted to keep having kids and gave him a hard time for his long hours. He said he dreaded coming home, and finally left.
"Regret" said he had no idea what raising kids would be like. He was shocked by how expensive it was and by how their entire lives changed in every way. He claims he loves his kids but can not live like this. He's planning his escape.
"The Dog" said he and his wife were so happy when they first got married. Then everything changed once she insisted on having kids. She changed, her priorities changed, and their lifestyle changed. He said this isn't who he married and this isn't the life he signed on for. He said he refused to be stuck and left his wife.
"Carol" said she knows her husband has been having affairs since her first pregnancy when he stopped finding her attractive. Instead of confronting him about it, she decided the best thing to do was to keep having more children so he'd be tied to her forever. They now have 4 kids and he avoids coming home as much as he can.
Etc.
Ok......
I want to take this opportunity to point out the warning this should flag for all young couples. This advice comes too late for our Unhappily Marrieds above, but it's not too late for others to learn. When you commit your life to someone, that means you've discussed and agreed on what that life will be like. Having kids is a huge lifelong commitment that is not all pink puppies and giggles.
Kids are freaking expensive. They are constantly in need of attention, protection, money, support and guidance. It's 24-7 every single day for the next 18 to 22 years at the very least. By having children you've surrendered most of your personal freedom, your indiscretions and your wild side. You have completely accepted the burden, cost, and commitment to:
Handicaps, learning problems, no more sleep, behavior problems, braces, soccer uniforms, getting your ass to scouts, games, car seats, mini vans, grandparents, getting up, snow days, sick days, school buses, PTA, play dates, concerts, runs to the mall, doctor appts, sickness, messes, big awful plastic toys all over your once-pretty living room and lawn, going to water parks instead of Vegas, getting to know Elmo and Bobpants or whatever the fuck that is, G rated, Disney, other people's children and their birthdays and problems and issues... sex talks, cell phones, internet predators, pot smoking, piercings, being called old and out of it, coming out, growing up, getting off, music you can't understand, goth, goth boyfriends, pregnancy, AIDS, school shootings, driving tests, insurance, cars, boys in cars, girls with tramp stamp tattoos, eating disorders, cutting, bullying, curfews, grades, college...
And there's no guarantees. Your kid could be special needs. Medically challenged. A behavioral nightmare. He could bully, or be bullied. She could get pregnant. He could deal drugs - out of YOUR home. She could drive drunk and kill someone. They could (COULD) could cost you everything. And even the best behaved most wonderful kid costs you oodles of money, time, thought, energy, responsibility and commitment.
Once you have a kid, you are no longer the first person you get to think about. Period. Every decision, every penny, every inch of your life is now theirs.
Really think about this before you have kids. Agree on your ideas and plans. Will you both work, can you afford for one of you not to, consider day care, and school, and what your house is going to be like, and cost. Think about no more motorcycles or vacations, or whatever sacrifices you really are going to have to make, and be on the same page with your partner.
I can almost guarantee you that the people that wrote in did not consider all of the above. Look, there are many lifestyle choices that you are free to make. To have or not to have kids is one of them. Kids change everything.
As you can see from the recaps above from those comments and emails, it's the men that want out, that don't find their wives attractive once they become mothers, that are feeling the financial stress, that are miserable. Is that always the case? I'm sure it isn't. But this is what I have to work with here, these are the people that responded to the HUB.
Angry Wife made several excellent points in her comment. One of which is that maybe she'd feel differently if her ex husband was at least supporting her and their kids, but he hasn't sent a penny since he left. I'm starting off my advice with that point. Running away from the problem doesn't actually resolve it. Guys, the mistress seems stress-free and wonderful, but the reasons you're leaving your wife aren't just going to disappear if you go. Eventually dead-beat dads get caught. Is prison really going to be better than the life you have now? Stop dreaming and own your shit.
Bill, you asked for advice and here it is. FIX IT. It's too late to *think* now about whether or not you want or can afford kids. It's just too late to discuss this. So fix this moving forward.
First thing you have to do is sit down with your wife one on one. Hire a babysitter and take her out. Sit her down and tell her the truth. Tell her you're fucking miserable. You CAN NOT live like this and you feel so strongly about this that you have contemplated leaving. She can't dismiss this. Make her hear you.
Once you have her real and true attention to the seriousness of your state of mind, let her know that you aren't leaving. You made your bed and you're going to BE A MAN and lay in it.
List out all the things you hate about your life. I'm serious. Hey, you're contemplating leaving her. Telling her you don't like her housecoat is mild in comparison. Whatever all your gripes are, list them out. Even the ones that are selfish, unrealistic or mean sounding. Just do it. And encourage her to do it too. This isn't going to be easy. Brutal honesty is your only way to go at this point. And this is going to take time. If she wants to save the marriage she will let you get this off your chest. Then you can begin to compromise and work together as a team. Your problems are her problems. And vice versa.
One of two things needs to happen once you admit these things. One is that you will make the sacrifice and suck it up. Or two is that she will. At the very least you can work together. You will see that there is a side to everything you don't like, that you haven't considered.
For example, when you were dating her she made an effort to look great for you. She did her hair, her nails, her toes, and her make up. She got dressed in cute little outfits and jewelry. Now she doesn't. Your attraction for her is waning. Well, once you admit this to her, she can admit right back to you, that she used to have an hour to herself every morning to primp and fluff and get dressed. Now she doesn't. BINGO. Maybe you can go into the office an hour later every day, and give her that alone bath and beauty time. You take the kids completely for one hour every morning. Make it two hours and let her run to Curves and have a coffee in peace, too. Maybe she will enjoy looking good again and this self confidence will make other changes.
If you have some financial freedom this will be easier. Hiring a nanny, a maid, or a one day a week babysitter will bring incredible relief. You may have decided day care was not for you before you had kids. But now you are seriously contemplating LEAVING YOUR WIFE. Hello. That's much worse than daycare. You have to reconsider that decision for your sanity.
I strongly recommend seeking outside help. You may both be too close to the matter for real clarity. I highly recommend couples therapy. If finances aren't flowing, I highly recommend you make an appointment with a credit advisor and you sit down together and figure out what the hell you're going to do. Downsize your house, sell off stocks, make a budget and stick to it. Maybe she can go back to work and you can utilize daycare. Maybe if you move your office to the house that will save overhead. Whatever you need to do, DO IT.
If you attempt these things and they don't work, or if your wife refuses to try to work with you, then make an appointment with a lawyer. Bill (et al), you can't just leave your kids. If you really have exhausted all other possibilities and there is no way this can work, then go to a lawyer. You can't just run.
When you put time and energy into a mistress and your own happiness, you are taking time and energy away from your family. It's not fair to anyone. It's a poor response. It makes you an ass. You made the mistakes. You have to fix them.
Marriages are partnerships. Partnerships involve compromise. And sacrifice. You may have made some really bad decisions that you truly regret. And if you are in that situation, I'm sorry for you. If one of you is unhappy, then both of you bare that burden. And you have to work together to find the compromise that will get you through.
** If ya liked this HUB please hit the "Thumbs UP" just before the comments. Thanks!
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Comments
Veronica although I don't have any of these issues because I am not married and don't have kids, I really appreciate the look of problems yet to come. My fiance and I try to be very open about what we plan for our future together, ie careers, kids, etc and I think this will really help in the long run.
Regret - I really truly hope you and your wife are able to work things through. Namaste.
CareyYo - Your comments really matter to me. Thank you for seeing what I was trying to do. I sound like a broken record, but honesty and communication really are the keys to everything. You are so right - it will really help you and your fiance to plan and talk and share thoughts on everything.
I don't think "kids" are a mistake. I think not thoroughly discussing having kids, and not understanding the reality of the commitment, is the mistake. I've tried to focus on that because that is the theme of unhappiness in the comments and emails I received.
Veronica - you've hit the nail on the head when you stress the importance of communication in a relationship. Although, personally I feel you were a bit harsh on the negative implication of children.
Thanks Goodwich. I'm glad it was harsh. I hope it encourages communication, consideration, and thought. This HUB was directed to a specific scenario. It wasn't meant as a generic kid-bash. Having kids is a huge commitment that needs to be thought through thoroughly.
If I do a HUB in the future about the positive implications of having kids, yours will be mentioned ;)
(Goodwitch and her husband have raised a beautiful family... together.)
Hi Veronica. Thanks for this article. I am married and have 4 sons. I wanted to comment on the positive side to all of this. Although what you write is mostly true, one must not forget that anything in life of value is not easy. You can only truly appreciate things when there is some type of struggle in attaining them. The facts are marriage is hard and raising kids well, is harder. However, both are very worthwhile and the grass is not greener on the other side. It's usually more stressfull, more expensive and more lonely to divorce, period! A lot of the problem is with the media and society painting an unrealistic picture of what is entailed. The point is, if you are mature enough to make the commitment, then you must live with your decision, good or bad. Both marriage and raising children are very selfless things. If the choice to leave wasn't so easy to do, people wouldn't do it so quickly. So to all of the people out there who are honoring your commitments, I applaud you.
Hi gpower2,
Thanks for the comment. I agree with you. I'm happily married 10 years myself.
This HUB was geared toward people that had lost sight of that message. I think you're right - there are a lot of romanticized ideas floating around out there about having babies especially.
I'm with you applauding people that take ownership of their lives and stand by their commitments.
Hi,
I can't imagine that I would ever leave my wife, and I cannot even bear the thought of not having constant access to my two daughters. (She is a wonderful mom and if we separated there is no reason for a judge to grant me primary custody of them. It makes me shudder to even talk about things like this.)
But, we are not happy. I don't know if she realizes it or not, or wants to put that out in the open. She is the kind of person that likes to sweep things under the rug, whereas I want to get them out in the open but she seems afraid to admit this problem.
I think a lot of the problem comes from the fact that we feel like roomates or something. I am not naive enough to think that with two kids we are going to be as passionate as we were in the past, but she seems to have zero interest in romance or sex and it discourages me to the point where I oftentimes don't even bother trying to be passionate or "cute" anymore. And vice versa with her.
It just seems crazy; we are both in our twenties and if we were not married with two kids we would more than likely be out on the dating scene right now. It just seems to me that, just because we have kids we don't have to act like an elderly couple all the time.
Neither one of us has ever verbally considered divorce but she seems to refuse to even acknowledge that there even is a problem.
Chris
Thanks so much for leaving your very thoughtful comment. I'm sorry, I wish there was something I could say that would help. I have received so many emails from men feeling very similarly to you since I began this HUB series.
I very much respect your commitment and your feelings for your kids. Not all the men I've heard from in your situation share that same devotion.
Chris, I don't think it's fair that you feel this way, and your wife sweep it under the rug. I really hope you find a way to relay to her the seriousness of your feelings (and hers) and that you can one day be happy again.
IMHO, most people are unsuitable (genetically) for child rearing. I'm one of those people. Shame other people don't realize it until they have a stack of dirty diapers in their kitchen.
Bravo!
(Hi Veronica- Joe,here)
Not sure if you could hear the chorus shouting "Amen!' from all the way out here in Montana.
I am childless by choice, and I am very happy with that choice.
The reasons you articulate above are exactly the reasons why I made that choice.
There are some downsides- I get bored to tears at parties or dinners with people who have young children. I get excluded from some of those dinners and activities. I get judged, and lectured on "what a great dad I would be." (Because I wouldn't half-ass it, and made an informed and thoughtful decision not to put my life on hold for 20 years.) "Who will take care of you when they are older? (You're sick if that's why you had kids.) "Oh, it's different when they are YOUR kids." (Uh, no. Screaming is screaming; cleaning up vomit is still cleaning up vomit, even if it contains your DNA; shit stinks, regardless of it's source.)
"When are you going to grow up?"
Grow up?
I'm 6'2".
Sure, it's selfish to choose to live my life for me, but that's my choice.
Isabella Snow is correct. I don't think most people realize the gargantuan undertaking and responsibility that comes with children until it is in their laps.
The focus of your marriage is no longer each other; it is the kids. It has to be. Kids are like a job that runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for 18 years. Granted, some of that job is wonderful and rewarding. Kids can be fun. I like kids (other peoples', that is).
If you can manage to still stay in love with your spouse, steal some moments together and enjoy raising children together... that is wonderful.
It just seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.
I didn't mean this to come off as negative. My circle of friends and family have had a slew of babies in the last 5 years, and based on my conversation and experiences with them, 90% of them would switch places with me if they had a magic wand.
Hey Joe!
Thanks so much for the input. My husband and I are in a similar situation as you. Many of our friends with kids would trade places with us and it's pretty much because they didn't think about what they were getting into. They weren't prepared and are overwhelmed with the reality of their decision. We know only a few families that really seem happy. Like you said, it's the exception.
We get the same bullshit comments as you do - especially that one about who will take care of us when we're old. I completely agree, that's a sick reason to breed. And, btw, no guarantee.
What really pisses me off, is (in the vain of Carrie Bradshaw) we celebrate every body else's life choices, with shower gifts, baby birth gifts, christenings, christmas gifts, birthday gifts, blah blah blah. Do you think any one of those people does anything in return?? Not one of them even makes a donation to the humane society in our name and sends us a card, to acknowledge and celebrate our life choice the way we celebrate theirs. We just adopted another dog (long story) and dammit, I want a puppy shower! Not so much for the "gifts", much more so for the acknowlegement and acceptance.
I loved that Sex in the City Episode with the shoes! Girl, it sounds like a great idea for another article.
My wife and I read your blog Veronica and we have been looking at your hubpages now too. My wife didn't like this article. When I asked her why she couldn't give me a real reason. I think it just angered her in general that this is true. Of all the married men with kids I know, I can name only 2 that knew what they were getting into when they had kids. So many of them have affairs now. Most of them are just miserable. It's this unspoken thing in our circles. Everyone knows how terribly unhappy everyone else is. Everyone wanted different things in life that aren't going to happen now because of the decision to have kids. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's the way it is. It's true. The guys I know having affairs would not be seeking union elsewhere had they not had kids. Like you explained they had a very romanticized idea of what would happen. Life changes in every way after you have kids. Your wife changes in every way. I'm the first to admit my wife and I love our kids but we didn't know how much things would change. If I knew then what I know now I would have made some very different decisions. I'm not happy with my life and I know I could be happier. That's not to say I'm going to do anything stupid. I will deal with my decisions and follow them through because it's the right thing to do. But I understand why so many men just can't. Bravo to you for not defending them, just explaining what's going on. Just the fact that my wife wouldn't face the truth of this article and reacted with anger and dislike shows how far some women's heads are stuck in the sand about this. This article is a very hard to face truth that represents the majority.
Thanks for that, Peter.
By far, I have received more emails on this HUB than on any other. Many are from married men, miserable and making bad decisions. Some of them were heart breaking. Some of them were disturbing.
Thanks for your point of view.
I don't think you were harsh at all about the negative side of having kids. Anyone who thinks you were must not have kids yet.
Every single thing you said was true. If anything is "harsh" it's the TRUTH.
I agree with the people that give you credit for not defending these guys that cheat. You were right telling them they need to deal with their decisions like real men and not take time and energy away from their families only to spend it on having affairs.
You really wrote a good piece explaining the truth no one wants to admit and not defending these guys at the same time.
I had 4 children with my first husband who left us. I was very lucky to find my second husband. We raised 4 wonderful people. I began to read this article thinking I would be mad at you for it for defending what my first husband did to us. But that isn't what you did at all. You explained the situation painfuly well.
I hope people will read this with open minds and really think about it before they have kids. It is a wonderful experience but it is not for everyone. I agree with the comment that it probably isn't for most people.
I would give anything to have my life back again. I'm exactly what this is about. I am fucking miserable. I can't talk to my wife about it. I hate my life.
I am the female version of exactly this article. I am a 41 year old married mother of 2. I knew having kids would be a big change but in no way did I know just how much so. I love my children but I am so unhappy. There is no time for me anymore. I have lost myself. I used to be a person and now I feel like nothing. The children suck the life out of us. Nobody tells you how awful it is. I see how my husband changed and how our relationship changed but now I see how I changed too. There is no romance. We are too tired from homework and cleaning and fighting and having to do everything for the children all the time. We used to go to plays and museums. We used to have vacations and long talks. We used to not worry so much about money. We used to sleep in on weekends. We used to take care of our appearances and we used to enjoy life. Now we don't do any of that anymore. I am this cranky tired bitch all the time. I hate myself. I hate him. I hate my life. I feel trapped. I read this article with how men find escape in affairs. I say to these men if you are as awfully miserable as I am and you find any happiness anywhere then you should go for it. I would give anything to like myself and be happy again.
I am a 29 year old Married Marine father. I've been married for four years, and have been with my wife for six years.
After my first deployment, which was last year, i returned home to find that my wife had been cheating on me and destroyed our finances while i was away. I had decided on divorce, and after i realised how long the process could take, began to date and talk to other, prospective females. After a short time, i found a nice woman and we got into a relationship that i dropped recently, because my wife decided that we should give it "another shot" or whatever, at least for our daughter. As much as it hurt to do so, i did it and again faithful to her, we both know that what i did cannot be considered "wrong", at least in the sense that i believed that my wife and i were through, i just really wanted to move on and leave the pain behind.
Now, we've both made changes and sacrifices to "make amends", or try and "make things work", and in most ways it is, but i just cannot, for the life of me, forgive and forget what she did to our family, and to me.
It's smiles on the outside but inside, i'm still full of bitterness and despair, and i focus on the things that mt wife still won't do, but my recently dropped "lover" did so well. Whether it was sex, affection, or just inquiring into my well being, she really made me happier than my "wife" does, i really fucked up, i realize that now and i just can't figure out what to do.
I don't want to lose my daughter again, but at the same time, i can't live like this anymore, it's like living a lie.
Turk,
I wrote a response to your comment in your very own HUB.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Should_I_Stay_in_a_Lie_of_
I hope you'll read it.
Best to you no matter what you do,
Veronica
Veronica,
Thank you for telling it like it is!
I work with children. I love children. I can't imagine not having children of all ages in my life. I don't mind the vomit, the poop, the crying, the screaming -- or the help with homework, the fights, the snot, the blood -- FOR A LIMITED NUMBER OF HOURS PER WEEK. Someday, maybe, that could change, but for now, I'm 25, and I have absolutely NO intention of having children of my own for AT LEAST 5 years -- and probably more like 10 (or more)!
I can't tell you how many of the parents I see don't seem like their children are anything like the kind of priority they should be, and it's heartbreaking. In our society, there's no reason to have a child if you don't want a child. I can't help but wonder how many of them simply had no idea what they were getting into when they "chose" to have children.
If even one person reads your article and thinks twice about having a baby -- or thinks twice about having a baby NOW -- you'll have done something very, very good. Thank you!
Alex,
Wow, thanks so much for your comment. You are so right: "In our society, there's no reason to have a child if you don't want a child. I can't help but wonder how many of them simply had no idea what they were getting into when they 'chose' to have children."
As someone who deals with children and thier parents for a livin, you would see it first hand every day. A million thank you's for stopping by my HUB.
This could have been written about me. I got married young, had kids because I thought that's what ya did, and was miserable beyond repairby age 26. I cheated on my wife a few times just to escape. I dreaded coming home to that house, with the screaming kids and the mess and the toys everywhere and my wife mad and upset. We got divorced and I am so much happier now. I am so sorry for everything I did and not saying it was right - just like you veronica, just saying this is the way it was. I see my kids every other weekend they live in another state and I am happy. The really sad thing is my ex wife remarried to a guy I used to work with when I lived there, and they had another kid right away. The really sad thing is, and I know from friends at the old job, he's having an affair now with a woman that works with him. I am not making excuses, just like this article doesnt make excuses. I'm just saying just like this article, people have no idea what they are getting into when they have kids. My ex wife used to be so pretty and strong. And now she looks a mess and has had two cheating husbands. When I talk to her when I pickup my kids she says she wants more kids. She has no idea.
It is hard to face the truth about this subject. My husband and I had 2 children and our lives changed totally. I love my children and would never want not to have them. But my husband was different. I think you are right about that he just did not realize how much work it would be. He started working later and later and then would go to the gym. We stopped having sex and stopped being friends. I found out he was cheating on me and when I confronted him he didn't even apologize. He just wanted a divorce and wanted to get away from us. Since he left 2 years ago he has seen his children 4 times.
I have another perspective on this. I am completely miserable and have been for years. I have two beautiful children who I adore, and they are all that keep me going day to day. Rather than the children being the reason why my marriage is unhappy, they are the only reason that I am there at all. I've been separated for 9 months when they were very young, and while I loved my freedom, I eventually came back because I didn't want them to grow up damaged. I've been through months and months of marriage counciling with my wife, but nothing can solve the fact that I just don't love her. I figure I just have to sacrifice my life for my children to give them at the very least a happy childhood. I know I will most likely miss out on ever having true love myself, and I go through episodes of severe depression thinking about that. Eventually I have just told my wife what she wants to hear so that we have some sort of happy home. I know I can make it as long as I don't meet anybody else. Not exactly the perfect situation, but that is my present reality.
I had a girlfriend in college that I loved very much. She didn't want to have children and my parents made her out to be some kind of weirdo because of it. I broke up with her over it and married a girl I met at work a few years later. My wife and I have 2 kids. My parents asked me all the time, when are you going to make us grandparents, when are you going to have kids. Not once did they ever ask me, are you ready to have kids, do you know whats involved. The pressure of them asking all the time was immense. They always made me feel like having kids was something every body did and I had to do it too. They made me feel like the woman I truly loved was wrong for her decision. They pressured me into the situation I am in now. Kids change everything. No one warned me or taught me anything about this. I'm just expected now to not want to go out anymore, to give up every night to homework, to give up every weekend to all their activities. It's not their fault but I resent them for taking my life away from me. I can't do any of the things I used to enjoy. I work hard and make good money but I never have any because of the kids. My wife is an excellent mother which is why I married her. She loved kids and wanted to have them. My parents pressed it into me that that was the only quality that mattered in a woman. We don't have sex, we never talk. I can't stand to be around her. She looks awful because she takes no time on herself at all. She can't talk about anything but the kids. I resent my parents for being so irresponsible with the pressure on me to have kids and for never ever teaching me how hard it was to raise kids. I resent my wife and my kids. I feel stupid for letting all these people push me and make decisions for me. I hate that I never thought for myself. I hate my life. I hate coming home from work, I hate spending time with my kids. I hate when I have to speak to my wife. I'm not having an affair but I would if I found a woman that wanted to. I love my kids but if I had it to do all over again knowing what I know now I would never have had them. I would not have listened to my parents. I would not have married my wife. I would have married the woman I really loved and I would be happy, much happier than I will ever be being a father. One more thing, I talk about this with different men I work with or know from the gym or from college. Many of them are in similar situations as me as far as having kids and the way their wives are and many of them feel like I do about it. I am by far the worst and I think it's because of my parents.
I love the way you tell it like it is, Veronica! I read an interesting article in our local paper recently. It was by a woman who'd just had a baby. She wrote about going to a Mothers' Club and feeling like an outsider, because all the other moms seemed to have transferred all their love to their babies, and had very little (if any) time for their husbands.
Whereas the author loved her baby, but she also still loved her man. Of course, the baby demanded a lot more time, but in her mind, she loved them both equally and she took care to let him know that. But the other mothers actually sympathised with each other about how their husbands didn’t understand the new situation – as if they should just accept they were now relegated to third place in the family, behind bub and mom.
It started me wondering - women blame their men when he walks out after the kids arrive, but is it possible that the woman’s change in attitude is a major part of the cause? I'd be interested to hear your take.
Hi there Marisa Wright
Thanks so much for the awesome comment!
Having not read the article, it's hard to weigh in. But based on what you said, I really sympathize with the author. Years from now when all those kids are grown and gone, I am willing to bet her and her husband are still going to have an awesome life together, and those other mommies are not going to be so lucky.
I don't blame men alone in walking out after the "kids change everything" moment of life arrives for them. I definitley put the blame on the woman too. What guy would still feel romantic toward a woman that doesn't show him she still feels romantically towards him?
Men alone are not to blame. Their mothers start this, and their wives sew it up in the end. (Sometimes. Not all the time. Don't every body go ballistic. I'm talking about a certain group of people. If the shoe doens't fit, don't put it on.)
I'd love to hear your take, Marisa. Let us have it.
Veronica
I'm old enough to know that very few marriage break-ups are the fault of only one person!
I don’t have kids myself so am not really qualified to comment – just curious whether other it strikes a chord with other women who do.
Yes, kids are hard work but good grief there are some whiny people posting here. Deal with it and be grateful - change your attitude and it will change your life. Don't forget that anything of value in this world takes hard work and commitment.
My husband and I have two very energetic young boys and most of our friends have kids also. Yes, we all used to vacation together and we don't anymore but we plan to again in a few years when the kids are older. I know none who are having affairs. We are all quite tired and busy (we all work full-time) but we are happy with our children. We would never change our decision. I do think number of children is a consideration - two is plenty - I do agree that more than two might drive us crazy, there is just not enough time or energy for more.
I hope the people who have responded try to focus on the positive aspects of their current life situation. The screaming and the toys everywhere etc. should improve over the next few years - it is the early years that test you - if you and your spouse can get through it together, as a team, I am sure you will enjoy a happy family. We love our sons and we are taking our first family vacation soon, now that they are "big boys", 6 & 4.
Good luck.
I definitely agree that too many women change their focus when they have children. The woman in Marisa's article is right on! I personally do not have children but I can appreciate how much time and energy they demand. However, your Husband/Partner should still be your primary focus. They are the ones you declared your commitment to and having a loving, healthy relationship with your spouse directly impacts on your childrens lives. You are in the relationship together and even though it may take slightly more energy to continue making your partner feel special (energy you may feel you don't have) it pays off so much more in the end. I think it comes down to a simple question women have to ask themselves "Did you say 'I do' so you could become a Mother or did you say 'I do' because you truly love the person you're with?" If you truly love the person you're with then they must take priority so you can work as a team to raise your children. Just my two cents. Great writing!
Thanks!
Marisa Wright's comment woman? Yeah, I agree too.
There seem to be, broadly speaking, two types of people in marriages. People who see their children/family as the centre od their marriage and people who see the relationships between man and wife as the cdentre of the marriage.
It is also true that both mn an women fall into each category. The woman who puts her kids before her husband and the man who stays with his famly even when he is having an affair are both putting hte needs of the children before their own emotional needs from a relationship in different ways.
Equally men who walk out of marriages with kids and women who put their husbands before their children, even at the children's expense are putting the relationship first.
In this case it does not matter weher the relationship we are talking about is a marriage or an affair. The important thing is that it is given higher priority than parenthood. I guess the truth is striking the right balance between choldren and spouse is very difficult to achieve for all.
Also in my experience the problems with children really start about 10 years into parenthood with at least another 10 left before the youngest is truly independent. The younger years are the most demanding but years 10-20 cna be the most demoralising in terms of needing some kind of other energy in your life to stop you feeling stagnant. But I guess everyone is different in this department.
Also we should not lose sight of the fact that falling in love and making love with someone you love with the thought of having a baby are the very best feelings in the world.
I believe we should trust our instincts at these points and if we choose to enjoy the moment then we should also have the will power to see it through until the child is 18-21. We know all marriages have ups and downs (including affairs) but staying togther for better or worse mean just that and normally after 50 years most marriages have evened out in terms of who is treating who wrongly.
Our Grandparents, greatgrandparents, great great grand parents etc seemed to have managed to cope OK with life long marriages of reasonable quality. It should be no surprise to us that in the last 30 years or so we have changed all the rules of marriage and parenthood and then wonder why it falls apart so much. Perhaps we shoudl try to learn a thing or two from the older generation.
I am posting a comment to gpower2.
If you are applauding those who honor their commitements, and it seems so important to you to stuggle and be mature to ensure that the marriage survives, then why were you divorced once already? Why didn't you try to make that marriage work?
Veronica, everything you stated is the absolute truth. I for one did not think through my decision to have kids. I have been married to an emotionally absent, verbally abusive, selfish man for almost 20 years. The problem is, I knew this when I married him and should have known things would only get worse instead of better. So my advice to anyone who wants to have kids is to find someone who you truly love and who loves you back before you make the commitment of marriage, much less before having children. I thought children could fill the void of a loveless marriage, however now I realize how immature I was at the time of that ridiculous though. I love them unconditionally and I am grateful for them but they do not fix a broken marriage. I had an affair some time back as a result of lonliness, anger, and boredom. Although it was short-lived and almost ruined my life, it was the time of my life. He gained legal custody of the kids, and I was forced back into my unhappy life once again in order to have a daily relationship with my kids. There is no longer trust in our marriage. He doesn't trust me because of the affair and brings it up on an almost weekly basis and I don't trust him because he frequently threatens to leave me and take the kids, since he has so much dirt on me. We hate each other and fight all the time but are staying together for the kids. They should be well adjusted adults one day because of it. What I'm trying to explain is this: Make sure you really know the person you plan on spending the rest of your life with. If you can not communicate with them then you should not get married, period. And when you do talk, make sure you discuss every aspect of the desire for kids, parenting styles, discipline, etc. Kids can be rewarding but once you have them, you can't take them back, not even for just a little while. If you decide halfway into your marriage that you no longer want to be married and you have kids, they become casualties and they didn't ask for that. And if you're even contemplating having an affair, be prepared for the absolute worst to happen because it is a lie and lies have a way of catching up with you. And to Nicki who commented that the screaming and the toys improve in a few years and it gets better when they're older, well I hate to tell you this but it doesn't get any easier. When your children enter the teen years you will be dealing with an entirely new set of problems. I would gladly go back to those early years in contrast of struggling with a defiant and rebellious teenager who is now much larger than me. Those days were much simpler.
One more thing, the comment was made that many women turn all of their focus on the children after having them and give their husband's much less attention. Yes this happens. There is a reason, especially during a child's infancy. They require constant attention. They are physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. Women, especially stay at home moms are usually exhausted. They are isolated from society much of the time because it is more trouble much of the time to get out with small children than it is to just remain at home. They often lack support from the outside world. A husband who comes in from work is also tired and has little or no energy to contribute to a baby. The wife therefore has to go about her job of raising little ones 24/7 without a break. No wonder she has no time to fix up or dress nice. When my children were small, my husband would come in from work and go straight to the la-z-boy. It would have been nice once in awhile to have an hour or two to devote to myself. So in most cases, the wife does turn her attention away from her husband when children come along, but what is the alternative. Lock the baby up in a quiet room and leave them to care for themselves? This is not realistic. And where should she find the energy to devote to a husband after going about her day sleep deprived caring for everyone but herself? Just a few things to consider before having that house full of kids.
People only think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence because THAT"S WHERE THEY ARE WATERING IT! Get a grip! Focus on your own relationship and remember what it was like to be a couple. Once you water and nurture your own garden it will grow ...but not until then.
Being married is wonderfull . Having children is a privilege and honor. Staying married with children is the problem. It goes without saying ,children need parental love and physical support ,training and at some times correction. It is wonderfull being a big part of this. NOW let us NOT forget the marraige husbands and wives NEED Love and attention to.Time to Love ,cuddle play or a night out. Wives DO not abandon your husband or you will end up with children only ,who will leave you after your sacrificed your 18+ years of life and your husband who you ignored or left for children. Men and women are different in how they perceive things. Childrens needs and spousal needs are different. Let us honor our marraiges and stay married so children can have a ballanced up bringing. Husbands and Wives LOVE EACH OTHER AS YOURSELVES!
Hi Veronica
I am married, do not have kids and won't be having them. The reason is because all this *did* occur to me and I didn't want anything to do with it.
Excellent hub...
The thing that truely amazes me is that the guys who are miserable with their lives after children think nothing of what life is for their wives.
Do they realize that life has changed for them as well?
Their thoughts are only self serving! "Get me out of this". What do they think will happen to the children they were instrumental in bringing into this world. Do they really think that their leaving their family isn't going to touch the hearts of their children forever?
I am 53, my parents split when I was 6. I had a difficult childhood, managed to create a good life for myself and my own family... but I can't completely shake the 'baggage' of insecurity and distrust of men, in spite of my 25 year marriage. Those ghosts pop up at the worst times.
Guys, don't ever think that your kids won't miss you in their lives. If you are leaving because of all of the financial burden... what the heck do you think will happen to the mother of your children when you leave her alone with it?
Thanks for this hub... I hope more people read it.
I totally agree with Pipedreamer...
Life could be easier if the men would also stop thinking about themselves and see how it effects their wives. I have been a stay at home mom to 3 children ages 4, 6, and 7 since day one. I did understand what was expected of me when I had children and I knew that it wasn't going to be a fairly tale life. I don't think my husband did though. I am very lonely and am in need of a change in my life (I am considering going back to school or getting a part time job somewhere). I am stuck in a rut. We moved out of state and I don't know anybody and it has been hard to meet new people. I am stuck cleaning and dealing with 3 kids day in and day out with no real support and nobody to talk to. I would like it if my husband came home and actually helped me out instead he gets on the computer or sits on the couch and watches me. Which of course infuriates me. Then he expects me to rub his feet or "love" him and what do I get in return??? NOTHING! There is no reciprication of "love" back. I am sorry, but I do this every minute of the day with the kids. I want to be "loved" without feeling like it is a job from him. I just want to sit and zone out on the couch for a change damn it! I feel like he is a 4 th child, who is very selfish. Isn't being in a loving relationship a two way street. It sure would be nice if I got attention and help more often. Doesn't a man understand that if you show someone that they mean something, you will get more return on the "love" investment. I am at the point where I don't even want to show him affection. I am tired of being dismissed. I work my ass off all day long, and I am sure he does too. But he should come home and work with me equally for the kids, he needs to understand that the job of father happens when he walks in the door. Not the job of couch potato/observer. Maybe wives could be happier. I can certainly say I for one am very lonely and would love a partner. I have told many people that I am just a single mom with a paycheck.
Kids add a lot of stress to the relationship. Couples without the strong foundational bond will buckle under the pressure. Remember escaping is the easy way out. It takes a lot of work, heartache, comprimise, and self-sacrifice to produce a successful family now-days. OR, you could just be swingers.
I chose not to have kids because of all the above statements. I took some time to think about what I liked and didn't like, what I was and not willing to sacrifice and came up with the answer; dont' breed.
Everyone told me I was wrong to feel this way. Everyone told me I would regret it, that I'd end up lonely.
Well, no loneliness here! I'm stable, have a career and good income, plenty of friends (yes, some with kids!) and am on good terms with all my family, enjoy wonderful vacations and hobbies, am never bored and love my life.
Why should I change my life for something I never wanted, never desired, have no instinct for?
I read the things people say about being pressured into doing something and how miserable they are now. So sad...
If you want kids, then yes they are all worth it. But if you don't, the sacrifices are awful!
Insightfull and wise advice.
I'm a pretty commited Christian, and I find that I rely on my faith and the Christian community I live in to furnish me with this sort of sagacity regarding lifestyle choices & actions.
The contrast between the ways of my Christian friends & my non-Christian friends often leads me to a pretty cynical, unflattering view of secular attitudes to lifestyle. So I just wanted to say, I very much enjoyed having some of that cynicism dissolved after reading your response to these comments & attitudes.
(I hope I wasn't incorrect in assuming that you would consider yourself non-Christian)
Veronica you really nailed this topic. I have no idea why everyone thinks you should automatically have kids. This article should be required reading in high schools. It is a huge decision, and one of the only completely irreversible decisions you make in your life. It goes on and on.
I have 2 kids and I love them and all that. But if I had known what hell this would be I would never have done this. I see in the comments some of the ladies saying what about the unhappy wife. I remember when my circle of friends started getting married and having kids. I remember talking about it with my wife as we watched each one as the wife would change. I mean totally change. And the husband wouldn't change. I think it's him NOT changing that is as much of the problem as it is HER changing. Kids change everything. Maybe thats the angle - she rolls with it and he doesn't. We watched as all the women in our group of friends changed their appearance, their priorities, thier likes and dislikes. It w as horrible, I didnt even want them as friends anymore. And we watched as all those husbands were more and more miuserable, not changing at all. Not changing thier lives or at least not wanting to, for the children they had.
Despite watching ALL of our friends become miserable and shitty and have affairs and fall apart, for some dumb reason we just went along with the american model plan, and we had kids too. I think back to that now and can't believe i could ever be that stupid. Now we are in t he exact same place. My wife is completely changed. And I'm not. I'm like the commentor that says he dreads coming home at night. I can't stand to be in our house.
I've had 4 affairs in the past 3 years. My little brother told me tonight that he and his wife are trying to have kids. That's what promted my internet search. How the hell do you tell someone that you truly believe with every inch of your soul that having kids is the biggest mistake of your life?
Mike,
Oh yes, you've assumed correctly. Thanks for your comment.
Tim,
My heart really goes out to you.
V.
I am recently separated from a wonderful husband/person/friend but I realized after almost 9 years of marriage that things weren't working. It wasn't a 'Eureka' moment or anything but after a big fight one night, I realized how unhappy I was and things needed to change....
YES, it was scarey...YES, the thought of being alone worried me but after all was said and done, I am SSSSSSOOOOOO happy to be single again! I can look back now and see how unhappy I was. I really let myself go, too...I put on ALOT of weight, I didn't care about my appearance, I let go of my interests and hobbies....I had a miscarriage early on in our marriage and I have to say that I am very happy that I did have a miscarriage. I am not motherly AT ALL! Most women are, not me. It was hard to leave the relationship but I have to say..........
I AM SO HAPPY NOW because I am now happy! I am single again and LOVING IT!!! I get to do what I want, when I want and with whom I want! I am so thankful that I am not 'stuck' in a relationship because that was not for me. I do not mean to put anyone down or make anyone feel bad but if you are miserable, you really need to weigh your options. I know that having kids can certainly affect any decisions you might make but your own happiness should mean something, too.
Good article. I am still married (30 years) and couldn't leave or abandon my children. However, An earlier comment by "The Dog: this isn't who he married".
I was 26 and she was 24 when we married. We'd seen lots of couples marry and make lots of mistakes (before and after marrage). I understand people will and have a right to change. However, I struggle with the question: would I have been attracted to and married a woman with this type of personality and attitude?
I am committed to "till death do you part" because of the effects this would have on family and friends. Maintaining romantic feelings , romance and passion is a another question. I am not condoning extra-marital affairs: let this be understood. But wives argue and protest over their RIGHTS to change without any consideration of the hubands feelings. However, if the husband were to change like this she and her friends would roast him for dinner.
Changing of personallity and the husband being religated to a significantly lower priority are the two issues that infuriate men, MORE THAN LACK OF SEX.
Point number two (priority) seems to continue on until the empty nest syndrome. She then turns back to the husband but he is bitter of the last 20-25 years and hesitates to respond. This has happened to me and almost every man that I know.
Changing of personality and religated to a significantly lower priority.
Indiana Dave,
Thanks so much for your comment.
"This has happened to me and almost every man that I know."
I know this to be true for almost every married with children man that I know, too.
Best to you,
V
working
Regret says:
11 months ago
Thanks for emailing me this link. Long article with a lot of good ground covered. No one wants to admit the things you are pointing to in this. but you are right Veronica. This is good. When I had kids I didn't think it through. I regret everything. Now I'm stuck. I hate my life. I have been planning to leave. What do I have to lose to try to talk to her honestly about it. I am going to take this advice and give it a shot. It can't get worse, right?