Forgiving a Cheater - Staying together After an Affair
89
Can the marriage survive?
WHAT IS AN AFFAIR?
I actually got this concept from a very old episode of Oprah. Basically what she said, is that it is cheating if you would behave differently if your partner were watching.
That is an excellent definition. For many people an affair means sex. But for other people an affair is anything flirtatious. For some couples, certain behaviors are totally acceptable, like going to a go-go bar, or flirting online in a chat room. For others, such behavior is cheating. Some couples have an open relationship where they can engage in extra-marital sexual situations, but many of those couples have their own rules, such as - no kissing, no friends, no second times.
It is important to make sure you and your partner agree as to what constitutes unacceptable behavior. What anyone else thinks should have no baring on what you and your partner agree to together. But it is vital that you and your spouse are on the same page where this is concerned.
So, you and your spouse agree on parameters for your own relationship. And your partner breaks that agreement.
Now what?
TYPES OF AFFAIRS
There are many different kinds of affairs.
1 - There is the kind where something stupid happens without premeditation or thought. A bachelor party that goes too far. A drunken night in Vegas. "Oops. Sex Happened. I didn't know what I was doing."
2 - There is the kind where it's all intimacy but no physical sex takes place. Affairs online are probably the most common type of affair. Workmates, partners, online chat-rooms... "Since I didn't actually have sex, it's not cheating."
3 - And then there is the full on affair: planned meeting, purposeful rendezvous. Thoughts, romance, sharing, talking, intimacy and sex, all taking place over a period of time. Premeditated. Lying. Everything. "This isn't just a sexual affair. It is an affair of the spirit, mind, and heart."
AFTER AN AFFAIR
Can you forgive a partner that violates the agreement you've made together regarding cheating? Can the marriage survive in a healthy way? That depends.
The first thing you really need to consider is, what kind of affair it was. Let's bluntly break it down.
1 - If it was an "Oops, sex happens" thing, I think from the three types of affairs I described above, this is the easiest to forgive. I'm not saying it's OK, justified, or acceptable on any level. I'm not even saying I would forgive it. But if anyone were to forgive any kind of cheating, I can understand this one the most.
In this situation, someone's head and heart can still belong to you. The flesh was weak. Stupid. Drunk. An opportunist. In a very general way, I can understand forgiving a mistake. 'Still not saying I would, but I can understand.
2 - If it were the affair I described in the second example, that's much more than "a mistake." It's purposeful deception. An affair someone has with a person online, or a coworker, or some situation where sex doesn't happen but there is an intimacy and sharing of emotions and thoughts, is a much deeper thing. The idea that your partner spent time with this person, thinking about them, planning to be with them, having conversations and secrets, laughing and crying... to me this is much more important than one drunk night where someone's pants fell off.
Another point to be made about this, is that there is no way in hell your partner didn't know they were breaking your heart. Whatever they say, whatever they claim, they had to know it was wrong or they wouldn't have kept it secret. You would have been included in those long conversations or chats, you would have been invited to those meetings, if there really was nothing to hide.
This is not only a betrayal of your vows and promises, it is blatant disrespect to you as a person. They cheated with their head and their heart. To many people, myself included, this is much worse than cheating sexually.
3 - The third situation I described above is the full fledged Affair. The whole big enchilada. Purposeful planned meetings, sex and intimacy, closeness and conversation... an Affair, that goes on over a period of time. The ultimate betrayal of every thing that should mean any thing to your partner.
FORGIVE? FORGET?
Is it possible to forgive and forget that third example? That full fledged purposeful intentional affair of the heart, mind, and body?
I think the better question is, why the hell would you? Why would you even think about taking back someone that is capable of lying to your face over and over and over again. Why would you want to be with someone whose promise means nothing?
If this is where you are, you really need to ask yourself what the real reason is for you to even entertain staying married to this person.
If your reason is "for the children" please think again. Do you really want to teach your children that infidelity is OK, or that lying to people you pretend to love is OK? You aren't showing your kids what it is to forgive; you are only showing your kids what it is to be a doormat.
Any person who grew up as a child in a household that "stayed together for the children" will tell you what I'm saying. I promise - any one of them will back me up. Many books have been written on this subject, on the guilt those children feel when they grow up for the parent's being miserable, on the lessons they take away from living like that. It's the dumbest reason in the world to stay together.
If your reason to want to work it out is that you still love this person, think about what self respect means. Get a little therapy. Take a little time. Think about how this person treated you by lying and cheating. Love is hard, and most of us at one time or another has loved the wrong person. But spending your life with a person that clearly does not love you back is a horrible thing to do to yourself. It's a horrible lesson for your children. It's soul sickening.
Let's make this clear: You deserve to be loved. This person does not love you. No matter what they've said out of guilt or fear, they do not love you.
A HEALTHY EVER-AFTER
The healthy thing to do is not spend time and energy and heartache on a marriage that isn't worth it.
There are reasons as to why your mate cheated. Maybe you married young, maybe he has real emotions for this other person. Maybe she's fucked-up, maybe he's just a coward. Maybe the marital sex hasn't been all that. Maybe kids, finances, illnesses, work pressures, and a million other things are involved.
The problem isn't that "problems" cropped up.
The problem is your mate's CHOICE was to handle the problems by lying and cheating.
A person that promises their life to you, then chooses to be a coward when the going gets tough, is not a person you can have a healthy relationship with. This person demonstrated in the biggest way possible that they do not love or respect you.
Your mate should have come to you. There should have been communication and trust. If after real effort you couldn't work it out, then your mate should have initiated last resort separation proceedings. If your partner was that unhappy, they should have gotten out of the relationship.If they loved and respected you at all, that's what they would have done.
If you like this HUB please click the “Thumbs-Up” below just before the comments.
All text is original content by Veronica.All photos are used with permission.All videos are used courtesy of Youtube.PrintShare it! — Rate it: up down flag this hub
Comments
Super-curious about your story now, Ren! I hope you post it, and link it here!
Sorry, I am not trying to hijack your Hubs. I did post this on one of your other Hubs, as I said I might. But, since you are requesting it here, then I'll post it here as well. :)
It is something of a stream-of-consciousness...
http://hubpages.com/hub/Once_A_Cheat_Always_A_Chea
Ren, you can post your links on my pages anytime, hon.
Oh, I couldn't stay with someone who cheated. I just couldn't. Good hub!
I love this article. Great pictures. You got a fan!
Woo-hoo! I love it!
You do as well ;)
This is very one-sided article. You cannot tell people who come to this site seeking advice that their partner does not love them. Affairs begin because an emotional need has not been met. Not for lack of love. And if a person is considering repairing a broken marriage, especially if the offender is truly remorseful and wants a change, then who are you to tell them its not worth it?
Excellent article. your advice is always right on.
You would really have to be a total fucking asshole to believe a person that cheats on you loves you. A person that cheats on you has no love for you and no respect for you. I can't even believe that fact has to pointed out to some people. It's sad and pathetic that anyone could be that delusional and gullible as to believe their cheating spouse is sorry.
What I really liked about this article is how well you presented all the different aspects, all the different sides and then stated your opinion. I especially liked how you broke down the different types of cheating. I'm with you in that I think I could forgive a mistake of the flesh. But I am also with you that I could never forgive an affair of the mind.
I'm going through this indirectly right now. My sister's husband cheated on her. It was the kind of affair you described in scenario 3. When she busted him he swore he was so sorry and would stop. Every one she knew warned her not to be that person but she forgave him and stayed in the marriage. I saw his car parked at a sleazy hotel a month after that and I told my sister. Hey, she's my sister. She reasoned it away. Her neighbor told her she saw a woman come to their house after my sister left for work, who was inside with my sister's husband for 2 hours, and left carrying her shoes. But again, she rationalizes with all these reasons to not confront him like the kids and his empty promises. I hate that she's that person. It's hard to think about someone you care about as having no self esteem.
This is a very complex issue and I think you have handled it very skillfully. Good job!
The photos at the top are great. I really like the Oprah definition of cheating. I personally could never forgive a cheater. I would always wonder what they were really doing everytime they walked out the door. Great hub!
This is a kick-ass article. You covered so many different angles. Really well done! And I totally agree with you, any person that stays with a cheater is a fucking fool.
M - you are a fool. Someone who cheats doesn't know how to love. This is an excellent article of truthful advice. You just don't want to hear the truth. If you're the cheater who is sooooo remorseful or if you're the one cheated on lying to yourself about it - either way - you are a misguided ass. ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER.
Another great tell-it-like-it-REALLY-is article, Veronica!
I did feel at times this article was a bit one sided-perhaps its all the hours of being trained in College to find the most non-biased, objective information and advice to filter opinion....but then again, non-biased, objective information does not exist. However, this article did help me..thank you. The love of my life cheated on me and ive been terribly heartbroken for months now...but the part that spoke to me in the article was..."The problem isn't that "problems" cropped up...The problem is your mate's CHOICE was to handle the problems by lying and cheating." This is a very good point-and even if I took her back i doubt I would ever be able to truly forget about what she did-and what a thorn in a relationship that would be. i almost feel that if i truly love her, knowing that this would only cause jealousy and paranoia-therefore creating problems, grief, and fighting, that not taking her back is the best thing for both me and her....unfortunately :(
The fools are the people who flat out say 'once a cheater, always a cheater' without any facts, or any idea of what contributed to the cheating. people with that mentality will die sad and alone - a habitual cheater is a different story, if it was a mistake and there is true remorse, a second chance is in order, especially if you contributed to the void in the relationship which prompted the other person to seek attention elsewhere.
I think your argument has some merit but is a little simplistic. Please look at this example in your summary.
"Take a little time. Think about how this person treated you by lying and cheating. Love is hard, and most of us at one time or another has loved the wrong person. But spending your life with a person that clearly does not love you back is a horrible thing to do to yourself. It's a horrible lesson for your children. It's soul sickening.
Let's make this clear: You deserve to be loved. This person does not love you. No matter what they've said out of guilt or fear, they do not love you."
The truth is that for many men affairs begin for exactly this reason. They have often spent years in marriages hat are sexless or consist of 90% begrudging sex. Women in the throws of motherhood can go through years with little emotional consideration for men who they see as irritating and demanding overgrown babies. The result of this is that men have normally become tired of and depressed by rejection before they finally decide to reduce their resentment for their spouse and increase their happiness by having an affair.
This often temporarily relieves much of the tension in the mariage until it is discovered in some way or another. The other problem once this has happened is that affairs are fun and addictive and men find it entertaining to actually be perceived as more attractive when they get older.
The secret for the woman is to always remember the man, even through young motherhood, monogamy is about having ONE sexual and emotional partner, not NONE apart from the odd occasion when she is in the right mood. Most men get married because they want to spend their life with a woman. But equally in the middle of the child rearing process men can get scared that they have condemned themselves to a life of emotional and sexual unfulfilment, apart from the odd weekend away maybe twice a year. Women who focus just on men's sex drives should actually focus more on their emotional drives, that is the key to keeping a man and rejecting him is the key to losing him as rejection is VERY hard to forgive.
Speaking as a man who has had, and been discovered or confessed to having, a number of affairs I can say that for me it is better to feel like a BASTARD RAT than to feel SULKING REJECTED and EMANCIPATED.
What saddens me is that I only ever wanted a good marriage and had never been unfaithful to anyone in my life until 12 years into my marriage. But since my patience snapped and I decided to look elsewhere I have not looked back and although I feel very comitted to my wife in a life sense, I am really struggling to let her back into my heart in a romantic sense... I guess this is a mixture of guilt and resentment.
In conclusion affairs destroy the romance of marriage in an irrepairable way and they break the purity of the relationship forever. Then again life is more than just marriage and providing the love between two individuals is strong enough the loss of the fantasy romance element does not necessarily mean that the relationship has run it's course, it just means it has changed into something different.
Personally my biggest disappointment of this modern era is that the value of simple loyalty and perserverance has been totally overlooked. To me for anyone in a mariage with children to leave someone because they have met someone else is so selfish and short sighted. This happens mostly because the affair has got such bad press in modern western culture, but actually what affairs give society is a more stable family base with far less broken marriages and much more realistic expectations. If myself and my wife manage to ride out our problems over time and we have now been together nearly 20 years. This affairs bit will be a small phase in the middle like the bit when I was unhappy before it.
To me for any marriage where one of the partners has become very unhappy for some time having an affair but staying ultimately loyal to the original partner has more virtue than walking out on your children in the hope that you might find something better.
The biggest damage that divorces bring to society is the increased expectations in children of divorce that their relationship will fall apart too.
Once a cheater, always is cheater. It amazes me that anyone would argue that. That comment from Mark really cracked me up. "people with that mentality will die sad and alone"
Ummm, no, Mark. People with that mentality will not waste their lives with a liar. People with that mentality will be with mates that won't cheat on them.
I just wanted to say that this is a hard pill to swallow. Maybe because I am the forgiver not the forgivee. I have always believed in love. I have always had the attitude that I would face life head on no matter what. However, I find myself in a marriage that my husband cheated on me this time last year right before Christmas. Now I struggle with the fact that things are not what I thought they would have been. I thought his remorse would have pushed him to do more in the way of at least working on our wounded marriage. Not the case. He pushes me further and further away and now I feel more alone and lonely than ever before. We are not even good friends. We don’t laugh or make love like we used to. It is not the same. I love my husband, however it may have been better if I would have just walked away like the article suggest.
It's difficult to people to let go of a long relationship. If one cheats, it requires a big effort to let go. Many continue to be in the relationship, in a self-imposed blindness.
Though I feel that a second chance should be given, if you love that person that much.
There's no need of a third chance.
I heard an Indian actor say that he was faithful for lack of opportunity. So to remain faithful, he eliminated all such situations in his lifestyle. Boring, but he could ensure a happy marriage.
Thanks, your hub set me, and so many others above me in the comments section, thinking.
Oh Boy Oh My there are many many trueth in your Hub my dear, I totally agree a liar and cheater is not a person to spend your time with. I gave my 33 year love a whole year to think about it, to change his ways, to think about the passionate love we shared for 32 years....
After that I asked him to please move out and go live with her.Which he did. I'm not saying it wasn't one of the hardest things I've had to do...but one of the most necessary things I had to do. Time heals, hearts mend and love can come again.
I forgive him, I will never forget our times shared, but also will never forget the pain,and sorrow, but am now healed (almost) and moving on with my life, more learned, a bit wiser and you know what else I AM BACK. G-Ma :O)
Good for you G-Ma! Thanks so much for your comment. It certainly is inspiring and encouraging for anyone struggling with the same decision you had to make.
Happy New Year
Why we people can't admit that both men and women are *not* wired for life-time monogamy, and adjust our expectations accordingly?
When we stop thinking of our spouse as our property, life becomes happier tenfold...
Oh You Misha..no one said property..did they? But being honest and truethful are an importtnat part of any relationship...in my humble opinion..And who knows what is ahead of any of us..Just dealing with the pain and hurt is rough..but knowing I can go on , go forward and be happy is a bit of help..You act so tough my dear..I bet you are as soft as any of us...G-Ma :O)
G-Ma, sure I'm as soft as everybody around. :)
And I'm talking from my personal experience... I know that converting one's thinking and feeling takes quite a lot of pain and effort, cause I've been through this. I know it is doable, cause I did it. And I know that reward is worth it, cause I live a different life now :D
MISHA - Thanks for the comments. I would really appreciate your thoughts as well, on a blog I just wrote that deals directly with what you're saying.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Threesomes-Pros--Cons
I hope you'll take the time to read it and comment. Thanks, Misha!
G-Ma, I just want to hug you, you're adorable.
Veronica,
I read the hub you mentioned. I like it :) I even tried to comment there - but I couldn't. It just does not fit my life experience, and anything I could possibly say there would be a pure speculation :)
What I preach - and my wife preach - and what is directly related to this particular hub - is to allow your partner to have as many affairs as he/she needs. You don't have to bend your nature to stay with one partner all the time, and you don't have to lie. We both know about any affair as it unfolds. And I agree to you wholeheartedly - this is not an affair what breaks the family, this is lie what does it...
Funny enough, we did not have any affairs since we got kids - I guess we just don't have time for this now :D
Misha,
I applaud you!!
Thank you for reading my hubs, I appreciate it. I had the feeling that, even though we're living life differently, that we actually agree on the true nature of things. And I knew you'd have value imput. I LOVE that you and your wife have found what works for you. I love that you have honesty. I love that you do not conform to what other people think is acceptable.
The only things I preach are honesty and communication. Thank you so much for *getting* that. You are exemplary.
Best to you and yours,
Veronica
This Hub gives good truthful advice. It's not easy truth to hear, which is why it's garnered such reactions.
I don't think Misha's response invalidates the Hub, because someone who is having an affair in the full knowledge of their partner isn't cheating. You're only cheating if you're doing something in secret, because you're not giving your partner a chance to make the choice.
Like the guy who posted about having multiple affairs as the only way of staying in his marriage. I agree with him, that many women are their own worst enemies - as soon as the babies come along, they transfer all their attention to them, and think their husband should too. But cheating is not the answer!
What a hell to find yourself in. Each partner tolerating the other for the sake of staying with the children. Do you really think the kids haven't noticed? They're learning about relationships from your behaviour - do you want to stuff up their future too? If you couldn't talk to your wife about it, how about going to a counsellor? By yourself first, to help you find the words to persuade your wife to join in.
Thanks for your comment Marissa. I caught some of Dr Phil just today regarding people that stay married for the children. He said, "Most children would rather be from a broken home, then IN one." I completely agree with him. I think people that claim they are staying together for the kids are doing a horrible diservice to thier children. I also think most of them know it, but are cowards using that as an excuse. I agree with Misha about most things. I think I've been very clear in my HUBS about affairs - The problem is not loving two people, or sleeping with multiple people. The problem is the lying. I agree it is a shame if a new mother puts all her energy into the kids and changes everything so much that the husband becomes miserable. I agree that's wrong, and grounds to rethink the marriage. However, I also agree that cheating isn't the answer. Anyone that justifies his cheating and lying with that bullshit, and then claims he is doing the noble thing by staying for the sake of the children, is seriously in need of psychiatric help. You're right Marisa, what a hell that would be to find yourself in, tolerating each other and pretending it's the best thing for the kids.
Ladies,
I was not trying to invalidate the hub, and I'm sorry if it looked that way. I was suggesting a different approach to the problem, the only one that can really solve it - I believe :)
Misha,
Your message came through. I didnt think you were trying to invalidate the hub at all. I agree with your thinking and I'm always happy to see you've commented. Thanks for checking in ;)
Sorry if that came out wrong, Misha, I go the message too - I just wasn't sure other people would.
Ahh... i love it when we're all polite and insightful, having an intelligent exchange.
**feeling the love**
I enjoyed the insights in your article. Well said. I'm amused at the back and forth with Misha. My ex boyfriend was Ruski. It was fine for him to have all three kinds of affairs. We tried to be more open at one time, to solve this. But when I told him that I went on a simple date where we only danced but did not even kiss or hold hands, he flipped out. He ranted at me for about two hours saying, "How could you do this?!" It is a different mentality there. In some places of Russia, there are six times as many women as men. The women are desperate to have husbands and put up with cheating behavior because, as one Ruska softly and sadly told me, "What choice do we have? Where can we go?" My ex actually tried to get me to accept the fact that he was going to go back to Russia to marry a very young virgin picked out by his mother. He said, "She is only a wife - for having children with." I hope he is not representative of all Russian men.
You hit the nail Sally, this is exactly what I was trying to convey here :D
We all pick our own poison, I think. for the Russian man it my be a very young virgin, unless you are a very young virgin yourself, who would want to go through what he is setting himself up for? He must be terribly insecure and strange. Who allows their mother to pick out a bride? They are both in a fantasy world.
The truth is, the virgin is actually trying to get out of Russia and who wouldn't? In a year she won't be so compliant when she sees herself in demand by younger, wealthier, and more intelligent men or, she my decide to put herself on the internet and find a man 'more worthy."
One thing is certain, when people are looking to exploit others they may find the tables turned on them--for surely what comes around definitely goes around.
The man who says he wants an open relationship is really saying, love me unconditionally, even though I cheat. I may say it is all right for the two of us to cheat but when push comes to shove, he really feels like he should be the only one.
When they finally present for counseling, an experienced therapist may easily identify that a cheating relationship is going nowhere but into the mud. The object of the therapy is not necessarily to try and repair the irreparable, but to identify exit strategies that do the least harm to innocent parties. It's almost certain the lifestyles of the partners will change significantly, but more so the woman, who, being the child rearer, has the children and may have to learn to live on a whole lot less.
Your post, along with all the comments caught my eye. Excellent. Thank you.
Umm, I'm trying to understand - why you are stuck with discussing russian men as top cheaters? Is it something that is widely known in US and kept as a top secret from us russians? ;)
This is a tough one, I understand Misha's point on one hand, as far too many of us go into a relationship with a determined mind set and expectations which often times are unrealistic, on the other hand, I am a girl who demands respect and would not tolerate the #3 scenario, however I have been through #1 and was able to forgive and totally forget, beside, to prove his loyalty, he painted his car in bright neon pink with the words "I love you Chantel". He drove around with that for weeks unitl his dad finally told him it was time to take it off. Of course that was 15 years ago, we married and seperated after 10 years, but we are still the best of friends. Go figure!
Well, I've read over several of the items above and I have to say that unless you'be been through #3 you really can't say anything. I HAVE and the past year has SUCKED! NO the past 14 years that lead up to the affair SUCKED. But so much lead up to my partners affair. Married young, kids to young, fu**ed up childhoods, me being BLIND and pretending all was perfect, not to mention the fact that on the job someone tried to take my partners life! I'm not going to make excuses for what he\she did but our life sucked for a long time. We thought we knew what we were doing. We talked more than you could know but we NEVER talked about the things that mattered to our marriage. THe affair lasted 4 months and almost destroyed our life. Some people believe that love is conditional, I think had my spouse not believed this then the affair wouldn't have gone so far but who knows. We have worked out our problems and are doing great, my problem is that my partner seems to have found strengths and faith and I have lost so many of mine. I feel we swaped roles!! I don't want to make the same mistakes, I do love my spouse and I do believe he/ she has changed because he/she is NOT the same person! He/She is the person I always saw, BUT where did I GO!!
Can you answer that instead of calling people stupid. Until you walk in someones shoes you can't judge them.
OH and when a marriage goes bad, the cheating spouse didn't get to that road alone. The hurt spouse has to take responsability for what they did. NO I'm not saying they has anything to do with the affair that was the cheaters CHOICE but a bad marriage takes two on some levels.
My husband had an affair 8 years ago for almost one year. It was the most painful thing i have ever gone through. Today the pain is still there, he never explained why in all these years. Our sex life has never recovered. I have decided to leave him. The hardest thing for me is to forgive! He never showed remorse and to this day I feel like I am just here because he is 58 years old and he does not want to loose his financial freedom! So to make a long story short, don't do what I did and stay in amarriage that has been betrayed by everything a marriage should be "TRUST".
I never been married but my boyfriend had affair .And my dad had affair on my mom she put up with it for years .He spent all the money .mom work hard and he beat her .he had no love for us .My left one night after dad beat her and she never married .She died 2 years ago . and I still remember how he treated her my opinion affair should never be forgiven
Doesn't anybody believe in the old adage that "once a cheater, always a cheater" anymore? It takes a certain type of person to go out and cheat on someone that they claim to love and then come back as if nothing has ever happened. I gave my ex-wife the benefit of the doubt when she broke down and told me she went out on a date with a co-worker. She talked as if she was made the biggest mistake of her life. I fell for it. Part of me was wondering if she was just testing my forgiveness. We were divorcing 2 months later when I found out that she was having a full blown affair for over 3 months, and she had zero remorse! I will never go through anything like that again.
I offer another side. Yes, you can forgive and forget. Not every cheater is a back-biting, cruel, slut, whatever. Sometimes the relationship is broken. If that's the case, it's the fault of BOTH people, not one. And things that are broken can be fixed. My wife cheated on me and I - thank God - asked myself, why? What had I done to push or let her away? It was the right question 'cause we then asked many more. I wouldn't trade the depth of relationship we have because we worked our GUTS OUT to fix our marriage for anything.
I love the smeared dust on the car. classic. as far as the russia virgin incident - you're better off without him!
I also agree that there is different "levels" of cheating. we should come up with a color coded system, like, he's a code red cheater, cut off his balls!
And she is a code red cheater, cut off her boobs? :D
Mommagus & Misha: That would solve the problem in both cases. You guys are brilliant! I think you've come up with a fail-proof system. A few of those, and the infidelity rates should drop drastically.
Wish I'd known about it a few years ago, I might still be married to a (ball-less)code red.
This is for everyone in the process of figuring it all out:
Autobiography in Five Short Chapters
By Portia Nelson
I
I walk down the street.
THere is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in
I am lost...I am helpless It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.
II
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in the same place.
But it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.
III
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it there.
I still fall in...it's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.
IV
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.
V
I walk down another street.
That was good.. I loved it. G-Ma :o) hugs HAPPY EASTER
It sadden me to read some of the comments posted. My husband and I have been together for 19 years and 6 months ago he hooked up with a women from his past. I was in school and working on our future and really didn't have much time to worry when my husband said he was feeling all alone. I knew something was going on and after 3 and half months I called him on his game. The truth came out and I was devastated. We are now in counseling and he understands that what he was feeling was felt, but it was not real.
I know that he is truly sorry for what he did. Looking back he says that it is the thing he regrets the most. We struggle daily to try and rebuild what we BOTH helped mess up. I do not in any way condone what he did, but I think our marriage is worth saving.
You may call me a fool, but each marriage must be looked at for it's individuality and judged that way. My husband was terrific through 18 1/2 years and he made a mistake. He must live with the guilt of what he did and I must live with the pain. I would say that if we can be happy for another 18 1/2 years than the emotions that we are going through now are well worth it.
No one should be judged because they chose to give their spouses another chance. One chance only though. If this were to happen again then I know it was a mistake and I would leave him.
i am currently trying to forgive my girlfriend, after finding her in a local hotel with a co-worker. my first response was to throw her out, but after three days I let her come back. i dont know how long the sex part had been going on but became suspicious one nite when i went to pick her up from work because i had her car. i waited for an hour when she called to let me know she was at home but couldnt get in cause i had her keys. her coworker that i caught her with had brought her home and red flags went up, and i questioned her, she denied anything was going on. hers was definitly a #3 affair. the reason I let her back was because I had to be man enough to admit that i was partly to blame,trying to heal now. we'll see how it goes. the trust is the tough one, the love Is still there
Dave
Thanks for the comment. I'm impressed with your strength and candidness.
The only advice I'd offer to you is based on the trust statement you made. The real problem isn't so much the affair as it is the lie. That is where you need to focus your efforts now. You said you were partly to blame. I don't know your circumstances specifically but I understand that sometimes it takes two. However, the fact that she chose to lie instead of to tell you that you had messed up and driven her to a certain point, is the issue. I hope you can heal, whatever that turns out to be for you.
Best of luck.
thank you veronica
i am glad you didnt tell me that im being stupid and naive. at 53 its not the 1st time a #3 has happened to me. my part in this whole thing was that I was not giving all of myself to the relationship, trying to protect myself and my daughter. basically I was keeping our relationship a secret, so in a way I was also guilty of lying. she felt that the scope of our relationship was great sex and nothing more, i'm not hiding us any more, she needed to know that she meant more to me than that...I cant blame her for that...
btw ,I fully intend to let you all know how this turns out for us. its only been 3 weeks since i caught her, and only now am beginning to be able to be at least a shadow of the real me. I have already been through most of the phases that are similar to having a loved one die way too soon...self pity, anger, deep sense of loss, guilt, and over compensation in trying to ACT normal as if everything is ok. went through the same thing when my mom died at the age of 58. I have hope...but my eyes are wide open. I am a very intuitive person, and wont be fooled again, not that I was at all fooled the first time, just needed the proof...she's not a very good liar!
I think it's great that she's a bad liar! The obvious reason aside, being bad at something usually deters one from doing it. People that ski badly don't ski. People who take lousy photos tend not to take photos. Bad liars tend not to do it. Thanks for keeping us posted Dave, I hope you continue to do so. Agan - focus on the honesty and communication. Best to you.
yes, yes, yes! I totally agree! you have great insight veronica! I totally am thankful for your support, and wisdom...glad there is someone like you for support in these heart wrenching situations...thanks again!
I think whether a relationship can survive an affair depends a lot on whether the cheater ended the affair first and admitted his/her error, and wants to heal the relationship with you, or whether you catch them and they end it because they can no longer get away with it. If they end it because you catch them, their apologies and regrets are likely motivated only by the fact that they got caught and they don't want to face your wrath or the legal consequences such as a divorce. If they only ended it because they got caught, it means they would have continued if you didn't know about it which in turn means 1) you can't trust they won't continue the affair and just try to hide it better 2) start a new affair later with someone else and try not to get caught the next time.
quotations, you are absolutely right and I guess that is why I am still being cautious. as you know, they were caught, but after 53 yrs. one thing I have learned is that there are exceptions to every rule...nothing in life is cut and dry...perhaps if she would have come forward, told me of the affair, and that it was over it would have been much easier to forgive and forget (I've already been there with her). It is still a struggle, and I am not going into this with blinders on, internally I question every word she speaks, and every move she makes and quite frankly to this point am not convinced that shit aint still going on....if it is, I'll catch her, the town I live in is way too small to get away with much. am giving her a sense of security, which will make it easier for her to make a mistake and for me to catch her...I give it 3 months, and if by then she hasnt convinced me its done and over, I'll move on, and I will be nice and honest about it. as I said I will keep you all posted on the outcome of this thing...thanks for your thoughts, all input helps!!1
Once a Cheat always a Cheat! I would and will not forget get that! So the answer is I would ask.... Paper or Plastic? To throw his stuff out!
I understand completely where you are coming from, up until 6 months ago i agreed and believed the same. Sometimes life dosent work out the way it should, and people make horrible, horrible mistakes. I have been married for 12 roller coaster years, married young, i got all the excuses, but i had an affair, not a fling, not a one night drunken stand, buyt the "whole enchilada" and was going to actually leave my husband and start a life with this other person. Then it happened, i relized through this affair that I was making a huge mistake, and i truly love my husband and am so sorry i am chosing to confess to him and beg his forgiveness, praying that he is a better person than I would be if the situation was reversed. i have all the excuses, i had only been "with" my husband, ignored, older spouse who wasnt attracted to me ect. The fact is it was, and is my fault. But maybe there can be hope after the affair, maybe that "slap in the face" can make a person really love their spouse more? Just a thought. The fact is cheating has existed since relationships and marriage were created, it happens, it is how a couple choses to deal with it that is up to them, not anyone else, People can change, especially when they have done something so terrible, if there was no remorse why bother trying to salvage! Once a cheater always a cheater isnt ALWAYS the case.
nothing in life is cut and dry, I have forgiven my girlfriend, we are trying to move forward. the hard part is the honesty issue...if you are truly sorry and, you are being honest with yourself, your husband is going to need a long time to heal and, you will need to be patient with him. he will be very insecure and he may do some things that will be hard for you to accept...but you must give him this time to search out the truth in his way. remorse alone is not going to be enough to heal the pain he will be feeling...saying that you are so sorry, will not be enough. you now need to totally open a transparency that allows him to know exactly what you are doing, at all times. privacy for now is history for you at least until he heals...I wish you all the hope and prayers of success in your marriage...it is always worth the effort no matter the outcome
am reporting on my situation, progress has been made, but god its painful. I had to tell her I don't yet trust her, that I'm watching every move she makes, and listening to every word she says, that I am going forward with eyes wide open. she was actually, to my surprise OK with that...she is actually trying to be more transparent. unfortunately at dinner the other nite she got a call from an old "friend" and she cut the call short...she did not lie about who it was and admitted that the call was cut short because she knew it would bother me and she did not want a setback...I'm pretty sure the call was innocent enough, but am not totally sure...thats the hard part of this whole trust issue. I cannot deny her right to have male friends, its just separating the friends from the potential affairs that is driving me crazy...trying very hard to deal with this thing without being anal about everyone she talks to. now I find out that she has a female co-worker who would love to do the wild thing with her...how much more complicated can this get before I just say fuck it and move on? any help out there?
Dave
There are certain lines. Lines that once crossed, can never be uncrossed.
The problem isn't in the sex, or the love. It isn't in the lack of. It isn't in the growing.
The problem is the lying.
It's hard to offer you advice when I only have the facts as you've presented. From what you've said it really sounds as if she's trying. But if you're this miserable, I don't know that it's worth it.
One small piece of advice I can offer concerns the friendships. You said, you can't deny her her male friends. Well, I think you can. I think considering the circumstances, you have every right to make an agreement on this- a temporary treaty. Many couples in the early stages of building trust make temporary arrangements concerning all kinds of things to help them relax and be open. These thigns relax in time. If she's really committed, I don't think it's alot to ask of her. Both of you could contact your opposite sex friends (and her hot female coworker) and say, "I need us to take a break right now. I hope you can respect my request. I'm working hard on a big trust issue in a my most important relationship, and this is something we are doing for each other. It's just for right now, it has nothing to do with you, I hope you can be the friend that I need and just give me the space I'm asking for, just for a little while to help my partner and I get through our toughest time."
Real friends will respsect that. Often just the effort of it is enough. It's also a great way to see what friends are actually supportive, understanding, good ones, and which ones have ulterior motives. Maybe every relationship doesn't have to do this, but yours is different. She cheated on you. She changed the rules. You're allowed to ask for support while you work at repairing the damage. You're not asking for friendships to end. You're asking for time. You're allowed.
And Dave, here's a clear flag: if she can't do this for you, your answer as to when t say fuck it should be clearer.
Keep us posted...
veronica, once again you seem to hit the nail on the head for me. I was always told trust no one till theyve earned it...I've always done the exact opposite, I trust everyone until they give me a reason not to. doing it my way I've been bitten in the ass in many relationships, romantic and otherwise. you would think I would have learned by now, but in my heart I have got to believe that the good people outnumber the bad, and that even the good ones are not perfect...make bad decisions...so need a break, I need only look in the mirror to accept this, lord knows I've made many bad decisions in my life and have lied to people that I never wanted to hurt. I really am having a hard time with this one though, probably because in the past I always just closed the book...for some reason I need to see the end of this story...hope its a happy ending. thx for your time and words of wisdom.
All cleaned up.
Thanks for checking back in Dave. Anytime, you're welcome here.
Best.
what if they was high on cocaine? my girl went to a party and she got drunk and they talked her in to cocaine and her mind was somewhere else...she told me about it and she didnt want someone else telling me so she went ahead and was brave enough to tell me....does this mean she wants things to work out instead of throwing it away?
cocaine doesnt make you stupid, she must have known that someone found out who she knew, cared more about you than her...perhaps she was given a choice and decided that it would be better to tell you herself...if she is a party animal, and young, yuo're probably better off without her. I could never accept drunk on cocaine as an excuse for infedelity. I've been drunk and on cocaine and always knew exactly what I was doing. perhaps there was some other drugs involved...sorry I cant give better advice...need more info on your situation to better help you. as far as my situation goes things are at a point where I am getting closer to really know exactly what happened. gal I'm seeing has some major commitment issues due to her own history...am very close to accepting that our situation was totally due to a combination of two fucked up lives. we're both good people who got wrapt up in history instead of the moment, and afraid of the future. we are being more open with each other than ever before and have both agreed to put each others opposite sex friends on hold for the time being till we get this thing worked out. It's great to feel that we are moving forward...but we are far from the end of it.
well i kinda pissed her off because she was talking to alot of guy friends and i was joking and i called her a whore and she took it to heart. we left each other that night and she was really hurt. she thought i was going to be one of them guys that get jealous because she has had guys that called her a whore and they meant it. she was very very sorry and she almost was crying. man i love her alot and that day something stopped me from walking away. it wasnt that she had the face either. it was just something that stopped my morals of cheating because they was very strong and i couldnt walk away like i did every other girl. she has been through hell her entire life and everyone has looked down on her. i held her and told her that i refused to give up on her but i asked her not to do it again and she hugged me and cried... now i dont know what happened that day. i dont know if you believe in God or not. we just misunderstood each other thats all. when she got high it increased the emotions and things got out of hand. shes now right with God because she went to the alter sunday and she gave it all up for me. right now i have alittle trust issue but in my heart i have faith in God that he will make us stronger and that she will learn to tell me how she feels before leaving me for the day. we both are in love with each other and i understand her past. everyone has left her because no one taught her that it is wrong to get revenge for something like that. i was honestly joking with her but she took it the wrong way. im slowly gaining trust in her now because we held each other at the alter and she laid her head on my shoulder and cried her eyes out. maybe i opened her eyes by not leaving her like everyone else did.
I believe in a higher power....I dont call it god anymore and i believe it lives inside each of us. calling a woman a whore is very disrespectful even in jest. expect bad things every time you do it. you are very lucky that she came back to you at all. as far as i'm concerned, the only thing she needs to be taught, is to consider carefully wether or not she really needs to be with someone so shallow and thoughtless, to even in jest use such a filthy tag. as far as i can see you need to grow up and treat your lady with R.E.S.P.E.C.T. you're very lucky that this other guy was probably just as immature as you. I hate to be harsh, but you really need to take a good look at yourself and admit that YOU, caused this. not cocaine, not alcohol, but your mouth. give me a break, no one taught her that it was wrong to get revenge for what you called her? in my opinion the only wrong thing she did was go back to you. NEVER EVER JOKE that way again and someday you just be forgiven...I wish you luck with your life...
btw kevin,
it takes a big man to admit he screwed up, can you do it? you should let her know that you understand that it was your fault for what happened and tht you are grateful that she loves you enough to forgive you...I'm pretty sure that you have plenty of female friends too. and between you and me...I really have a hard time believing that there was'nt some jealousy behind your joke...I'm a man who knows how mens minds work...
Kevin - you were just "joking around" when you called her a whore?????? If any man said that to me, he'd be dumped so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. I'd never talk to him again. It's not something it's possible to joke about. ANY woman would find that deeply, deeply offensive. She was silly to take revenge the way she did, but Dave's right - you were the one who triggered off the chain reaction.
i know and we worked it out. i hold her now...she seems to be happy too. she sings to me a lot now that we've gotten past it and moved on. she loves me a lot. i love her a lot too. now i know that i did wrong first. i just never forgave a cheater before...somehow i did her. i love her with all my heart and i know she wants to do right. we are in church now and we are getting closer. im starting to trust her too because shes in church. God will move in our lifes. i have faith in it. im not a bad guy either...i was really joking around. i do that with some of my friends that are girls and they joke around too so i figured well ya know. no sense of making excuses for myself. what happened happened and she didnt throw me away and i didnt her. God must have wanted us to be.
and they was a little jealousy behide dave. ive always hated jealousy but ive been hurt too much to trust anyone and i get sick and tired of being good to girls and have them do me like they do. but hey thats life right? idiots do stupid things. either remain idiotatic about somethings to be stupid about all. i wont lie i was jealous. its just happened to me too much not to be ya know? but i am not now. i learned not to do that again and your right Marisa i did screw up and she should have dumped me in a heartbeat. but she didnt so that must mean she loves me...i must love her to still be with her. we are starting to get to tell each other what we like and do not like. things will work out i know it. We've both been hurt a lot. i didnt mean to hurt her if i did. i just didnt want anyone to take her away from me because him and his friends was trying to get her to travel with them and she said that she would if it wasnt for her kids. hearing that hurt me....i guess thats what started off. i just dont want us to end over being pissed off. it shows that we have commiment instead of giving up. is that a good thing?
but hey i do treat girls right. i really do. its something i believe strong about. i exspect if im going to do right then they shouldnt act like they like every guy they see or if they do then to not show it. that hurts a lot when you see ur girl hugging a guy she doesnt even know. makes you wonder sometimes. but i want to forget about it. i dont want to talk about it no more because i want things to work out and so does she and its best to never mention it again. i screwed up and we are together. we love each other very much still and im looking forward to hearing her sing to me again. thanks for you guys. id probilly go crazy if i didnt have anyone to talk to about this. i know your random ppl but you guys know your stuff. Thank You So Much. laterz
to kevin,
you sound very young to me, I hope you have learned a valuable lesson but I cant be sure that you have. you say you dont want to think about it, dont want to talk about it, but you really do need to think and talk about it or you are doomed to repeat the same shit over and over again.
I would sugget that for one thing, you need to cease calling her a cheater, you said in your second post that you left each other, and assume that meant that you were basically broke up, which I would expect under the circumstances, you also said that you are only now sharing your likes and dislikes....hmmm. how much in love could you be if you are only just getting to know each other? Love at first sight? I don't beieve in that, but i do believe that either you are attracted to people or not. you may have an infatuation, and you're obviously very posseve, deadly combination for a relationship...some people are just huggy by nature...I know plenty of people who are, and that does'nt mean they want fuck em all...its kind of like a handshake but feels better. that was something I had to learn when I was younger because like you I was very jealous, possessive, and if my gal even looked at another guy, I'd dream up all kinds of crap that simply was'nt true.
in A.A. we all hold hands, we hug, and we're complete strangers...we don't all have an orgy after a meeting...get it?
another thing...you now admit that you really were jealous and then out of the other side of your mouth you continue to say that you were joking...dude, you were not joking...you are sending mixed signals to us, so I have to believe that you are sending mixed signals to her...and who's idea was it to go to church? from what you've wrote it's your idea...have you asked for counseling from your pastor,reverend or priest? I don't think you have or you would have shared that. makes me feel that the poor lady your with is very insecure,leans on you heavily and you are prolly a control freak. you are not going to fix a damn thing sitting in a pew, listening to a sermon, and singing to each other. feels good at the moment but once its over, its back to the same old thing, for me church once a week ,is once a week spiritual masturbation...sorry. unless you live it 7 days a week, that is all it is. I am 53, and closer to 54, and still make mistakes...still learning...if you think you've got it all worked out now, and if you really believe that going to church is going to fix it all, I am sorry for you. mostly because of one thing you said which was and I quote" she went to the altar Sunday and she gave it all up for me"...dude, the altar is for giving it all up for Christ!!! Not kevin.
HI,
I was a cheater, I had an affair for 8 months. My girlfriend found out and of course I broke her heart; I wasn't just a cheater mind you I was a general bad sort, estranged from my family, selfish, uncaring, you name it. I seen first hand what someone like me could do to antother person and it made me think that no individual deserves to abuse such a power, the power to break a heart.
My heart broke too deservedly and I decided to change the person I was. I became a Christian and have completely left my past behind, including most friends and social life. My girlfriend loved me loads and thankfully she took me back.
Now this isn't a happy story, and it certainly isn't a preach; I still did those terrible things and nothing can change that. I just think to say "once a cheater always a cheater" is a little unfair. People (some) do change and sometimes there can be a future.
leigh,
i know i been doin a bit o preachin, but none 4 u, amazin that she stuck with u after an 8 month affair...but I do believe people can change...hope u have really got a handle on who u really want to be for her and you...tell me more...how old are r u? how "bad" do u feel u r etc. been doin a lot of soul searching myself...pls tell me more about u would like 2 know...a friend always, and to kevin too! kevin...I know I've been abit hard on you but, I think theres always hope for everyone....even you, just wanted to share with you some stuff I know for sure. veronica needs to jump in on your story cause I'd really like to read her take on your particular situation...veronica....you there? would really like to know your view on kevins story....yours, dave
Oh I'm here as always, dave. But I'm not going to comment on this one ;)
understood, hope you dont think I was too hard on kevin, there are some things I feel very strongly about...I think a lot of guys dont have enough respect for women like they're somehow above them...I would'nt be where I am without the women that have been in my life for better or worse...I spent a good deal of my childhood on the sidelines listening to what the girls said about guys and what bothered them hoping that it would make me a better partner. of course that was just a dream, the female is a very complicated human and men are simpletons, superficial, selfish, oh so many things I never wanted to be. Dont get me wrong....theres lots of great guys out there, but I feel that they're far and few between. I would like men to appreciate women for the wonderful people they are. I would like it to be a perfect world too but I know it will never be, so I have no choice but to continue on my journey, stumbling along, spilling my guts , hoping someone like you will come along and keep me from drowning in the cesspool of crap we call life. I am grateful for you, your honesty and the breath of fresh air you give all of us lost souls, again, thank you Veronica.
dave
My husband cheated..im trying to forgive..but how do i when he has admitted that he enjoyed himself when in the act...how do you work past the fact that he enjoyed the sex...how do i compair now..i feel destroyed sexually..like my body was not good enough...like i lack something...he has told me it was 100% his fault.........he says sex with me ment more.....all i think is "ya but you enjoyed the sex" how am i to feel like i matter....
Hey Unsure. ALL SEX IS ENJOYABLE cheating or not. So at least he was honest right? If he said he felt something more that probably means he felt love with you but not the person he cheated with. Hit anything?
Hey Unsure. ALL SEX IS ENJOYABLE cheating or not. So at least he was honest right? If he said he felt something more that probably means he felt love with you but not the person he cheated with. Hit anything?
preying will help us get through this stuff. i went to the alter tonight and i was relieved of everything that has been going on. i gave it to God. dave i know that u probilly are going to say something but dont. God is the only power i believe in and if it wasnt for him id be dead and so would my mom and dad. thanks for the advice though. i shall come to you guys every now and then to hang out and talk about this issue so that we can gather the best understanding possible.
Hi dave I am 26, I was 24 when my girlfriend found out, 23 when it happend. I felt bad like you wouldn't know, but I knew it was my fault for everybodies feelings. It was a slow process I didn't suddenly change overnight but I don't feel bad at all anymore because it changed me for the better and given me and my girlfriend a life. Of course I would have rathered I had changed without causing so much pain and destruction, but I have/will rebuild many bridges. I am also very aware that this is a rare thing and that most couples simply cannot survive the type of thing I did.
Cheating can be very hurtful. Even if your the person cheating. My girl felt really bad for cheating on me but I told her I understood. You need to ask your mate why they cheated instead of just walking away and telling them off. If they are sensear then they probably wasnt in the right mind. Remember we are not perfect in this world. We regret many many many many things. But its the corrections we make that makes us who we are. Not what we used to be.
Dave,
I am really interested in finding out what happens with your relationship in 6 months from now. My bet is it will be devestating. It sucks when you love someone so much and know that the two of you are perfect for eachother, but some people just have issues and life is too short.
here we go
my messed up story sounds very similiar. got together young (raised her child as my own) had a child of our own, got married, spent the last 15 yrs together. FELL APART! I ve always been a good provider,faithful with the promise that if we were ever to cheat WE would just leave 1st then do what we had to do(thought we had a mutual understanding on things! )MY STORY; I/WE was going through some employment issues for about a year. long story short-we quit talking and touching. come nov 30 she comes home from work and starts blasting me about bills and christmas and what we were gonna do. I didnt have a plan. She left all the money at her moms before she shows up and had made arrangements for another vehicle and told me if i was leaving i need to take the truck and go. SO i head off. went out that night to blow off some steam, ended up at another womans house and we stayed up talking and drinking the entire weekend. nothing more. Wife shows up sunday at my place and ask where ive been.TOLD HER EVERYTHING. speeds off thought we were finished. following weekend sex follows. another weekend SAME but knew this isnt what I wanted. New Years broke it off and wanted nothing more than my WIFE and Family. Would of done anything for her to forgive me. months pass,my wife and I continue to talk about why I did it and how wrong it was and we have sex here and there during this time. We work it out , NOW comes the funny part! We had plans 1 night when i get a call from her saying she has to work over. Somthing didnt seem right. find out shes not at work but having dinner with another man . I can forgive after what I ve done.....right? So we move back in. couple days later her phone rings its him and she proceeds to tell me how she met this guy new years and has been sleeping with him since.I can forgive since she tells me that i m the one who caused this.....right ? well now she has my curiosity peeked so I do more digging and wouldnt you know BAM it had been going on for at least a month befor we ever split up (or so she tells me)
I LOVE HER BUT WHEN IS THAT NOT ENOUGH...ADVICE ANYONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Veronica, I am again on your heated hub - alive as always. You pick your hubs well.
I must have a completely diametrically opposed temperament. The height of possessiveness and expectations in relationships is striking to me. People should study ancient history to gain some perspective on the history of love and sex.
I must confess that I am simply not a member of a society of possessive humans; which places me at extreme polarity. I do not believe, in the first instance, that the expectations are natural to humans. I also would NOT be in a relationship predicated upon strictures guiding my sexual expression. Relationships could not be predicated upon peoples sexual expressions. Words like CHEATING, LYING, etc make no sense to me. It all reveals people's selfish need to control others, manipulate others with ego, guilt, self-pity, etc. It seems to me that an essential understanding of the intrinsic nature of desire would be in order. Expressing sexual desire for others is as natural as just about anything we do. But a lot of people artificially extinguish this particular aspect of their humanity for reasons that puzzle me. People actually break up marriages for THIS?..and the reasons are: CHEATING, LYING, YOU DON'T LOVE ME, YOU DISRESPECTED ME, etc...I must have a completely different mind. I could also be a reincarnate of ancient Greece and Rome. The orgiastic experience makes perfect sense to me...although I do not drink alcohol or engage in altered states. That must mean that I am very strange.The emotional weakness of a lot of people stunns me! I think it derives from either a deep sense of NEED to be loved, or a view of human sexuality that is crudely unrefined. People may need to free their minds from a tradition of social manipulation and guilt arounf sexuality. People should examine their relationship with natural sexuality. The relationship between sexuality and ego, guilt, love, betrayal, abandonment, SMALLNESS OF BEING. RELIGIOSITY, GOD. My sense is that if people feel so horrified by sexuality, so controlled by its ramifications, then they must NOT understand it.
Simply stated: LOVE IS NOT SEX.
But then, my world is clear. I am not distracted or confused. Reality is intelligible.
Godfrey Silas
When you promise fidelity and monogamy, and you break that promise, it is cheating, and lying, and it means you don't truly love the person, and that your word means nothing.
None of what you wrote has anything to do with what this hub is about. Stating that "expressing sexual desire for another is natural" or "love is not sex" doesn't address this hub's topic. This hub is about people that have made a promise, (whether you understand that promise or not,) and then have broken that promise. Like any other time a man gives his word, his word should mean something. The topic is about breaking promises.
I don't think your view is radical at all. It just that you're missing the point of this article.
Hey, Veronica, thanks for the hub. It's always good to read what others offer regarding the crisis of infidelity in a relationship. Keep up the good work.
well veronica you have it right,but I like your thought on this situation say the guy cheats for the first time in his life goes all the way,for two days straight comes home tells his wife about it and theres a knock on the door,here its some ass thats been goin all the way with her for two days now the both are wondering should I leave or stay,I know both are stupid fucks or are they?And mark I agree once a cheater allways a cheater is not true I living proof people do grow out of it brother
my husband after 12 years cheated on me with my friend. he was caught and wanted to stay with her. I have takin him back and he promises it will never happen again. the other women was totally opposite of me. somewhat good looking, nothing special. they are alot alike, whereas my husband and i are fairly diffrent from each other. he never looked at another women before. My mother died recently and his mother has 2 months to live, I was away for 3 weeks at a time taking care of his mother when it all happened. It went on for 2 months. Any comments.
Tara,
You were away caring for HIS mother, and he cheated on you with YOUR FRIEND, and when he was caught he wanted to stay with HER. And, all this is going on while your mother was dying.
There is no forgiving anyone that selfish and thoughtless.
Love is not sex. Sex is not love. Sex is the dessert. Love is the main course. Hell yes, it's possible to love one as a family member and have sex with another. To a lot of women, sex and love are the same. To a lot of men, they're totally different and separate. Depends on how you look at it. My wife loves me, but never wants sex from me or anyone else. We love and understand each other. I'm older now and can get by without sex, but there once was a time when I NEEDED it, but she never wanted it. There is a difference, at least to my way of thinking.
well i have just been cheated on well the second type of cheating in the colum im really confused i love her so much 3 years we have been 2 gether and it happends i do wanna give her a second chance but the trust is the worst side when i was at work i was wondering what she doing is she cheating ect and she was for the last month email this guy 2 times her age saying stuff i dont wanna even know and replys thinking of going there and sleeping with him, im so confused i dont know what to do i only found out 48 hours ago i do wanna give her a second chance we dont have any kids we just have each other we were planing on getting married in a few months but i dont know i just wanna get to know her again, learn to talk to each other more become better partners then we can see where to go im a very jelous man i hate how im feeling atm i dont know where look look for help, but in saying that reading that info help me a lot and i do want to work it out i guess i can for give but i dont know if i can 4get so yeah any help would be awesome
thanks justin
Justin,
Not a lot of fact here, but you paved the way for a lot of reading between the lines. You said some things like, you want to get to know her again and learn to talk. I'm wondering if you felt the two of you becoming estranged, or if you're blaming yourself in some way. You said you were wondering what she was doing while you're at work. Why are you working and she's at home? Why isn't she working? You've admitted you're jealous, which is never good. And, you're not saying how you found out. Did she come clean or was she outed. There's a big difference.
You don't have to answer. Just think. You're hinting that there's alot going on here. 3 years is a long time. If you can really get a good dialogue going, and you both really want this, and you both can be extremely honest and willing to work at this, maybe you can try again. 48 hours is not long enough to live with this.
Take your time. Keep us posted.
thanks Veronicaill take time and think ill let ya know more when i know more i found out by reading one of his emails to her as she left it under our pillows
hey again,
i do blame my self i feel like if i gave her what she wanted it would not have happend but in saying that she did not tell me what she wanted she said she could not talk 2 me with somethings becouse she couldnt say stuff to hurt me like that, im jelous because i belive once your 2gether your 2 gether dont go after other people, i have seen a few of her x friends try 2 get close have internet sex and shit and she has told them 2 get stuffed, now all of the sudden she went looking for it, the email said stuff like u make me so horney ect but he also said in the email to her was in his own words" he sounds like the guy u dont wanna throw away think hard and long about your relationship with him and is this wat u really want" he was pushing her away to keep me i guess, she told me 2 days ago now that she only wanted to have sex with one other guy is because i took her verginity and b4 we get married she wanted somthing different just once, she said that if i wanted to i could go do the same to a chick if i wanted to, which i dont but yeah, and she wanted to take a brake from us just so she could do it and get it over with then come back and all will be fine, 3 -4 weeks ago she told me she wanted the brake she said that so she could find herself again find out why she has been angry ect, i told her no back then and yeah this was the real reason she said she did not wanna hurt my feeling by telling me she wanted a brake so she could do some guy and get that feeling out of her for good and marry me, another this is she wanted to move closer to this guy b4 i found out about them now i new she wanted to move there her excuse was more work ect, houses bla bla bla and now him!! she is still 2day looking that way i told her we r not moving there inless we have 2 she is still trying to move there i dont know if it is because she wants just move there or him or just a house, where we live now is not helping us were staying with her parents grrr hate it, we cant talk about anything her mum listens in, we are very extremly stressed just from this shit and then ontop off her mums shit, so until we move out of there we cant build our relationship or even think of it, i do love her i just think the resons moving there r wrong and i dont trust her that much i use to trust her 100% im down to about 15% im iknow its early days i know we got a very long way to go, we just cannot do anything until we move out and it just goes aournd myhead everyday and im not getting anywhere i dont sleep atm i cant sleep in the mornings i hate the mess cant stop it by lunch time we smile at each other pecks on the lips thats it, we so talk when were about just trying to cheer each other up by night time im back to being upset, i have also lost my job because of this so the no money does not help ether any way im off trying to put another smile on my face so ill talk later thx
justin
Thank you for this, Veronica. I feel evermore knowing in that I must leave my husband. We've been married for less than a year (and together for four). I feel like SUCH a fool! I've had to deal with his crap for too long... he has an insane temper & I've come to terms that I'm in a mentally/emotionally abusive relationship. It all came to a head when I came across some incriminating texts from another woman & caught him in a lie (concerning these texts). He's now going along thinking all is OK... but I'm getting everything together & orderly (being smart about it) & getting the heck out! I can't believe I wasted FOUR years on this jerk - as much as I do care for him, I care for myself MORE! I'm disgusted & actually still in shock. I usually have such a good judge of a person's character & I'm so ashamed at myself for not listening to my gut sooner. I'm also grateful we haven't had any children together either. *sighs* I hate the fact that it will be hard to trust another man, though. Even though you're out of the relationship, you still take a piece of it with you... he's ruined my outlook on life in some aspects... which is the worst thing a person could do. I pray I'll be able to find someone that is deserving of my love & find a way to forget the past... but such takes time. Thank you again for your post. It opened my eyes... I was half tempted to stay with this man, but I think I need to be selfish now & think of myself. Am I happy? No, I'm not. And that's all there is to it!
SARA
I'm with Isabella. I could not stay with someone who cheated. It would eat at me. Probably more a part of my personality, but sometimes it is what it is. :)
I am at such a dead end. I know what my boyfriend did was wrong, he did a number 3 eight months ago with his ex girlfriend and i just caught him doing a number 2 with her about a week ago. Our relationship is beyond amazing though. There is seriously not one error on the surface, i don't know what's hiding beneath, My problem is I can't find the strength or self respect to end it, He makes me happy in a way no other has, after the number 3 we worked through it (i thought) and became so much closer. The thought of leaving him is more heart wrenching than my current situation. I feel so odd that i'm happier with a cheater than without. Can someone dig up something to say to me, to maybe give me the push I need to realize how stupidly i'm acting?
Brittany
A new door can't open until you allow this one to close.
Right now you could be missing The Right Guy. He could be right there, and you're blowing your opportunity to meet him - your real soulmate, because you're letting this cheater cock block you. He's already cost you your self respect. Are you really going to let him cost you your future too?
Hello,
I love your article. I was feeling really bad for wanting to stay with my wife who cheated on me (full blown affair) this passed weekend. The story is juicy.
Thursday - Wife buys a plane ticket with my check card, to fly to Reno and have sex with a guy she met on World of Warcraft. She lies and says, "My dad bought me a plane ticket to see my cousin margie."
Friday - I take my assessment test at the Art Institute of CA totally clueless that she was leaving to have sex, I wished her a goodbye. I get home and check my key logging program to find messages like, "yeah I'm going to see (guys name) now and I'm so nervous!" I called her 11 times, and no answer. She calls back at 3:30am and gives me an attitute that would kill a horse.
Saturday - She calls again, to rub in what she's been doing and how she's going to take me for all I have. I went to the bar with my brother and hung out with him all night, finally passing out at my dads house.
Sunday - I get a call from my wife saying, "I'm having a terrible time, they're yelling at me and hating me, I hate it here, I want to come home to you." I'm surprised she even said that, but whatever. 10:00pm rolls around and I decide to call her back to see how she's doing and I talked to a guy and his wife who she was staying with. They said she had been having sex with this other guy, and did him 3 times already, and she was falling for him and asking their 3 year old daughter for relationship advice. She was calling her ex-boyfriend and some other guys. Also, she bragged about how she's cheated on me before. These people were very nice to tell me all of this info.
Monday - no phone calls, no going out, just work. A very lonely day. I cancel her plane ticket home after finding out she bought it with my card, and her dad had really not paid for it, I wanted to see if she would tell me the truth. (Which she did, and got very angry at me)
Tuesday - The day she came back. her dad buys her a return flight, and she comes back. She stays at the neighbors house and says she's going to pack up her things and move out. That night she packed up her stuff, but didn't move out yet. My parents were there to make sure nothing happened while she was moving, we ended up going to dinner. my wife stayed and packed.
Wednesday - I went to work, didn't really talk to my wife except for at about 5pm she wanted to grab something from my car, and was being mean and nasty to me. I got angry and drove to my sisters house. she cooked dinner and I got a call from my friend who said I should leave her if I have any self respect. My wife cooked for me at the neighbors and brought it to me while I was in the shower. Nothing happened, but her and I agreed to be civil to each other until the divorce finalizes.
Thursday (Today) - I went to the courthouse to file papers on my lunch break, I drove to the wrong place and had to get back to work so I wouldn't get in trouble.
This is what helped me out a lot: "You need to ask yourself 'how much you respect yourself?' Do You like to be shit on and taken advantage of for trying to make a better life with her?? She chose to screw you over. You can't have a relationship with someone who only wants to when its convenient for her. You gotta do whats right."
OK guys ,
a little advice here please, i ave just found out after 9 months ago my girlfriend had an affair,
i only found out because her phone bills went from £30pm to £140pm. when i confronted her she told me it wasa female friend who was going through a difficult patch. this did not wash and although i could not prove anything i kept digging.
6 months later she finally admitted to texting a bloke, again it did not was so i kept on and a few nights later she admitted to meeting him 5 times over the 3 month period.
one of these times was at MY HOUSE while i was OUT WORKING for our family !!
HOWEVER she has admitted to kissing on these occasions and going to meet him and meeting him at her friends house however she will not admit they were intimate!!!!
i find this hard to believe if not impossible for 2 people to have an affair over a period of time and not be intimate!!
she said he tried to "go down on her once and she told him to stop and leave" but that was it that was the only intimate time !! why cant she TELL ME THE TRUTH???
being in my home killed me surly being honest about sex wont make me feel any worse.
she says it was never physical on her part and the fact she was going through a bad patch with me and he was saying all the right words etc and she enjoyed hearing them, she says she never found him physicaly attractive it was all in his patter, she says she never had feelings for him only for the things he said.
if this is so why risk a seven year relationship?
why risk leaving 2 children father less?
why risk it at all.
she says she loves me and want us to get married and live happily ever after BUT i NEED to know THE TRUTH how can i get her to finally come clean and tell me everything ? she claims she has but she also claimed for 9 months while i was asking her to come clean that she had not been unfaithfull??
any ideas greatly appreciated
Nick,
You really scraped the bottom line here when you said how it killed you that she actually met with this guy in your house, while you were at work, working for your family. You're right, finding out at this point whether or not more happened than you know about isn't going to change the FACTS that you already know.
This wasn't a one time head-turning. She didn't bump into someone some afternoon and feel a little too taken with the compliments, and caught up in the moment. This was a long, purposeful, intentional deception. She met with him and texted him, she put time and thought into being with him, and she put time and thought into lying and deceiving you.
If you're asking my opinion, this was an affair. Since you know she can look you in the face and lie, I have no idea how you can even entertain the idea of going forward with her. And since you know she actually brought this man into your home, she proves to you she has very little regard for you, for your feelings, for anything you thought you had with her. It's very clear this isn't someone you should be with any longer.
***
That being said, I'm going to add the one exception to my opinion. You threw in at the end, that she said she wants you two to get married.
She's been with you 7 years, there are 2 children involved, and there is no marriage? Nick, has she wanted to get married, and you haven't? Has she made that need clear, and you have put her off?
If that is the case, then what she did with this other guy, though still wrong, may have just been her way of moving on with her life, since you won't fully commit to her. If that is the case, she should have told you and left you completely, instead of doing this in painful baby steps. But, IF that is the case, Nick, she's right to move on. You need to take the step and marry her, or let her go to seek what you won't give her.
thanks for the reply Veronica.
yes she did always want for us to marry, and yes i kept putting it off.
i have made that commitment before i knew what had happened and we have booked a wedding for early next year.
i do love her and want to move past this and i take some responsability for what happened i was not as loving as i could have been or as affectionate as i could have been.
however she states she went through a dark patch in her life and does not know why, she states she never found him attractive only the things he said.
and she still denies anything further happened.
i have told her i will stand by my commitment of marrige and told her that the vows we take are binding and mean the world to me,
i do not want them to be based on lies or deceit and i have also stated should she tell me the whole truth i will try not to judge or to make any rash decissions but to try and work through it together as a couple.
i want to work past what has happened but how can i when my heart says she has slept with him but she says she has not.
i think to myself
at least a 3 month period of deceit and lying
sneaking around meeting up and making out
but no sex????
it does not sound right that 2 adults could see eachother for 3 month and there be no sex in my head it makes no sense at all?!?!?!
i just dont know how to get her to tell me the truth.
Nick,
You're saying you weren't as affectionate or loving as you should be, and that she's wanted to get married and you've been putting her off. For 7 years and 2 kids.
But, you say you can't figure out how she could be sneaking around without sex happening. I believe there was no sex, because nothing you've told me has anything to do with sex. It all has to do with feeling wanted, feeling loved, feeling heard, and feeling safe.
I think we've hit a lot of the root of the problem. I think you really just don't get what she's gone through. Your 7 years of not recognizing what she needed and wanted finally caused her three months of desparation. Her self-described "dark patch" you said was before you finally relented into marrying her. When she had no idea of her future. When she gave you 7 years. And 2 children's future's are involved, and you kept putting her off.
The idea that you think this was about sex really shows you don't get what you've put her through. She wanted to get married. She was there, committed to you. No woman should have to wait 7 years and 2 kids and and a dark period to finally get her guy to consider marrying her. What a manipulation of her commitment.
I'm not saying this is all your fault. There are a ton of should-have's I can run through. She should have left you years ago when you were first putting her off for marriage. If she stayed, then when that insecurity really caught up to her, when all the things she wanted were clearly not there, When her self respect was shot, and she didnt feel loved or wanted, and she felt she had no real future, when her "dark patch" set in, then she should have left. I have no idea why she stayed and continued to feel the way she did, to the point that made her seek it out with a stranger she didnt even find attractive. She must have really loved you, that's all I can think. Her need to hear those things and feel wanted and safe was that deep.
She shouldn't have had this affair of the heart. She shouldn't have stayed with someone that wasn't giving her the affection and love she needed. She shouldn't have had to tell you she wants to get married for years and been put off as if her needs and her future don't matter. Many should have's here.
But it's too late for all the should have's. Let's just look at the right now. Right now, what I see is a woman you pushed and pushed and pushed for 7 years. And when you had finally pushed for long enough, she fell down. And now you're standing there saying, you fell down! I can't believe you fell down!! How can I accept that you fell down?
Even this second note from you. You aren't asking how you can give her back a feeling of security, or help heal her self respect, or show her love and affection. You're not asking about what it took for her to tell you what she has, to admit a man she doesn't even find attractive had to be the person to give her the feelings you don't. All you're asking is, how do I get her to tell me the truth? - the truth, which you have decided means sex, even though nothing you've said has anything to do with sex.
As to what you should do, Nick - I can't figure out how you guys made it 7 years. You don't give each other trust, security, or respect regarding so many things. if you really can't figure out why she did what she did, if you can't let this go, and marry her, if you're going to not believe her, not understand, and punish her for this in your mind, then end this now. She's been through enough.
Okay,
I thought I could be mr."big tough divorce my wife because it's the right thing to do" but she is really screwing with my heart. She is begging me to take her back, but she is also looking for another man... She's saying she loves me and wants to work it out and saying things like, "isn't this[divorce] what you wanted?" "If you want to be withme, than be with me. Forget what everyone else thinks."
She's spinning a web of lies to the point where I'm not sure what I want to do anymore. When I'm around her I feel loved, and at the same time sickened by the fact she's a lying cheating *&^%. When I'm not around her, Jealousy rears it's ugly head, and I wish she would just come back to me.
I think I'm having attachment issues. I know that our marriage is not going to work out over the next, say.. 5 years. I may also be crazy and posessive. I don't know if it's me or her or what. I'm so confused! >.<
Please help.
HI Veronica. this is the first hub of u i have read & seriously i became a fan of u .
someone cheated me too but i still love him.
can i add u in my fan list.
veronica
i need u 2 shed some light V.
The great thing about the internet is the complete anonomity bit. Nobody knows who u r so i can just speak i geuss.
Me, am the one that people arent keen on. Am the Other Woman.
He has been asking me out for like 5-7 years and i kept saying no. He already commited why does he need me. for the better part of that time i refrained. i said no. then at about year 7 he caught me in a bad place, vulnerable - from a break up and yadi yada. we go out, i learn on date he has a 6month daughter.
i freak out, run off dont talk to him, he calls me back. begs me, to bring his daughter to my house so i could meet her (the closest thing to his heart). with great tears and heart break he convinces me. Y does he want me, a 6month daughter is indication something must be going right by why cheat on your wife then. he explains his relationship is out.
somehow dear V in all my stupidity, which i somehow regret to this day, i go out with him. he sharees all, with me, his heart hopes dreams etc business etc etc.
fast forward now. just gave birth to twins. i never believed in abortion. but this time, this was a test of what i truelly believed. i felt i would loose a lot, but i just couldnt go thru with it. id rather kill myself than do that.
since i fell preggaz, he never left me, NOT ONCE. he supported me in every possible way, financially, and generously i might add, the babies where born in a private hospital. he did EVERYTHING for me. He insisted the babies be named after his lineages. his great grand parents, his parents and then him. all 3 had to be in there.
when we found out, i was dazed and confused. and it was he who urged me not to do a you know, abort. i cut him off for a whole week, he looked for me, and when he found me, he told me, "i want to introduce you to my mother and you and i must find a new place to live" in addition he gave me beyek loads of cash. this was the one thing that helped me reverse the path i may have headed down.
i am not proud of my position V. what could have possibly happened that pushed him to this extent with me, the other woman. being in my position is no fun, the secrecy and all, i never dreamed this for my life. and am currently praying to get out of this mindset. this accepting and settling for this situation.
to me he is like a friend and brother. i want the best for him. my vulnerability got me here, so did his, or whatever that was. whichever way, i want the best for him.
often i have wished, i could anonimously talk to the wife, and find a way of councelling them together.
dear V, i know your hubs have made us - the other ones to be - just aweful. but theres a reason for everything, and our intentions are not all bad. we just fell prey, our selves allowed us for bad reasons to fall prey.
Dearest V, i have been cheated on in the relationship b4 i met him, and now i find he is using me to cheat on her.
not to be selfish, but coming from someone who has embraced both sides of the coin, i would rather be the other woman. i cant imagine the devastation that would come out of being betrayed. my heart could never bear the paid of being betrayed. i want the best for all parties concerned.
his wife found out through him after a bitter argument they had. he said it out of anger. not long after she fell pregnant and is now pregnant. a mess indeed. the bummer of all came when i left the country to give birth, not long after i left, literally a week or so, they got married. he had told me of this impending marriage, civil marriage. done apparently for his sons citizenship. even then he continued seeing me.
V. pathetic, - i know. Veronica, i am the other side of the coin, and b4 all womens jaws drop to the floor, with hate and all, i am probably the best person to fix this marriage in terms of what i know about his vulnerabiities and what brought him here.
but i also have a life, and kids now, i dont want to wait around for him. i want him to be with his family. i didnt do this on purpose. he was awefully persistent and forceful, had it not been for my vulnerability, i would have been stronger, he just caught me at my weakest. he wants to stay for the sake of kids. i dont care.
i just want to live the truth, i know for all he has done for me, one would think he loves me, even then, i dontthink i wanna do it with the knowledge that i may jst be a spare tyre. or am in there just to alleviate his probs at home.
V we (yes all of US) like your cut and dried no nonsense advice.
i was bold enough to talk to you.
So, hitme gurl.
sorry for error
Why,
I looked up your IP address, and I think you might be the first person in that particular part of the world that I've read/responded to. Thank you. I don't usually address the commenters on this article as it's very clear where I stand and why.
I'm a little confused with what happened with you and your married cheater, but no clarification would change my answer so it doesn't really technically matter.
Darlin', anybody can make a mistake. Anybody can be vulnerable and confused and lonely. Any one can be stupid, and gullible, and wrong, and screw up. I have. We all have. The true test of a person's self worth and value doesn't lie in the mistakes. I think the true test of a person is in what they do AFTER the mistake. So, it's one thing that you had this weak point. It's another thing that it continued and continued, and you even got pregnant and had children with him. And it's another thing that he's still in your life and you live this secret life and teach your children this.
I'm not sure what exactly you're asking me. You said how horrific you know it would be to be the person that is cheated on. So, you know what he's doing to his wife. You know you're a part of that horror inflicted on that woman. I'm the opposite. If i had to choose between the two, I can't even imagine living with knowing I inflicted my worst nightmare on another innocent party. I'd rather be hurt myself then to be part of hurting someone else so deeply.
He doesn't love you. And you know that deep down. He doesn't care about anyone's happiness but his own. He's sick and pathetic. He's a small little insignificant lying cheating fucktwat. He is not a man. He is not even a shitty man, to call him one would be an insult to shitty men everywhere. He is not capable of providing any kind of example for any of his children, as he so blatantly disregards what's best for their mothers, and themselves. He has put many lives into turmoil, lies and bullshit as he serves no one but himself.
You can't fix his marriage. Don't be delusional.
I think if I were you at this point, I would be most focused on what's best for my children. Letting them see that lying and cheating is acceptable would never be a correct option. Allowing this man in your life shows them by example that lesson. Letting them think money is a good reason to do anything would not be my way either.
Why, you know what you should do. You've known all along what you should do. I appreciate that you read my work, and like my no nonsense advice. You wouldn't have written to me for any other reason then to hear someone say: Do what you know you should do. And yes, it really is that simple.
Best to you.
wow what a sensational hub... every bit i was reading i was like YES!!.. i agree with EVERYTHING you say here.. i couldnt take back a cheater either.. it would always be there in the back of my mind all the time and i couldnt ever trust him again NO WAY.. i wouldnt even forgive my ex bf for commiting #1 on your cheating list.. phone sex.. i caught him red hand.. walking in on him while he was stroking his cock while on the phone.. and this is AFTER he confessed what he was up to.. and said sorry it wouldnt happen again.. the min i was gone he was up to his old tricks again.. we split up for alot of reasons but this one was the icing on the cake..
great hub.. i loooved the pics too..
Great HUB Veronica. I have a similar issue with my wife but she never cheated, not that i know of. My problem is not trusting her. We got married very soon after meeting when i was 19, she was 18. We've been married almost 10 years now and for reasons I'll mention I just don't trust her. I want to, and I try to, but I just can't. She used to lie to me about the stupidest things, things she thought I would get upset about but never anything serious. And 3 months after we got married she took off one day over a silly argument and was gone for 2 months. I took her back at the time only because she was 4 months pregnant with my child. After that separation things were good for about 4 years between us, I continued to catch her in a white lie here and there but never really anything huge. But it always created doubt in my mind even in the smallest degree it was still there. Well, about 2 years ago she started to change drastically as far as her intamacy with me. Not sex alone just everything. We started arguing alot, i sorta buried my head into my work and my computer and stopped giving her as much attention because when i tried i was pushed away. I always spent to much time on my computer. One day she told me she wanted a divorce, we sat down and talked about it, heated conversation but we managed. I didn't want it but she did and i wasn't gonna try and beg her to stay in a life she didn't want so i accepted it. Next day she had me tell our 4 kids. Coupla days later she came to me and told me she'd had a change of heart, that she was just upset and frustrated and it had clouded her judgement and that it wasn't what she had really wanted. So, I stayed and we're trying to work this out. But everytime we get in an argument she says the "we're through" and the "I hate you's". It seems like everytime i start getting over the fact that she's broken my heart over and over again she says something like that and I lose any "progress" that i've gained. I feel like i'm stuck in one big heartache but I love her, I'de do anything for her. I just don't know what to do. I've explained to her the situation and she promises to work on it but when an argument happens she doesn't seem to remember that. I've never really been one to say something i don't mean when i'm mad, or say something just to hurt her. I don't do that, and i don't want to. My fuse is getting shorter tho and my will to work on things is too. I've never wanted to change anything about her, anything I didn't like i just accepted as her being her. But being just plain mean, its almost like she enjoys it! Any advise would be great, from anyone. Mabey getting a womans, outside point of view would help.
Usure,
You have 2 different things going that I had to consider to in order while forming my sought opinion. The first was that you married so young. At 19 you are a different person than you are at 29. At 19 a major part of your brain has not even developed yet, and this is the part that makes rational decisions and can think about the long term effects of things in a clear way. Prior to this development (and especially if frontal lobe psychopathology is occurring) a 19 year old kid has crazy-strong impulses which include being desperately and completely in love.
As I read your story I of course consider that she got married too young, and as her brain normally developed she began to change, which is expected. Even the things you've said about her lying to avoid getting you upset shows me she was thinking and acting like a teenager. That is exactly what a teenager would think and do because that is what their brains comprehend: avoid upsetting the parents, white lies., etc. Even the idea that her love - so intense and overwhelming at 19 prior to frontal lobe development - matured naturally, and she discovered this wasn't her true love, was a normal possibility, commonly the result of marrying so young.
But your story went on in years, past the point where her frontal lobe should be developed completely. And her behavior didn't develop and mature with it. Quite the opposite. Taking off for months after an argument? Being convinced everything is over from one fight? Being so convinced she actually had you tell 4 little children mommy and daddy are getting a divorce and then one day later changing her mind?? Saying "I hate you" repeatedly in fights is the kind of thing a 6 year old says not a 28 year old mother of 4.
Unsure, these are not normal pieces of behavior.
When people talk about rage disorder syndrome, they talk about a light switch effect. Someone's temper goes off and it's as if a switch was flipped. They aren't listening, or thinking, or doing anything but raging. They are willing to die running someone off the road who cut them off.
I'm not saying I think she has rage disorder. But I do think she has a very real psychological or physiological problem that you need to address. She seems to have that kind of disconnect with thinking and realizing the long term effects of her words and actions. I don't think you can do this on your own, and since there are children involved I think you need to act quickly. She needs help. She needs a therapist.
I considered all the things you said and all the things you didn't say. It certainly sounds like your love for her is real, you've done everything you could and you're committed to your marriage and your family. I don't know if that really is the case, or what you've left out of the scenario you've painted. So I considered some other angles and things, and I still come to the same conclusion: normal adults don't feel so sure about a divorce that they allow their 4 children to know about it, and completely reverse their decision 24 hours later.
Additionally to all of this, it is unfair to you from what you've told me. You can't go on living with a wife that says I hate you, and tells teenage lies, and says it's over, and takes off for months. This is ridiculous.
Unsure, you wanted a woman's outside point of view and here it is. Your wife has a problem. It is not the kind of problem you can handle or fix. You need to get her some help. She needs to get some professional counseling.
Sadly ive staied with my wife who had an emotional affair with my former best friend . we were together 17 yrs three kids & were high school sweethearts. but now since she did what she did writeing him while he was locked up I feel its my duty to show her no love as I usted to /we had a love at first sight loveing supportive went to church together relationship thats now dead to me...asking for me to forget this because she didnt have sex with him ,because (she knew it would be over) if she did that.seems to me like a pretty F*^#! up thing to have to deal with ..Im done being the one who gets told last . I never was a punk all my life I wont be played again by her non-emotional ass.can you belive she grabbed me as I was leaveing after finding out in a love letter from him to her. ya she grabs me saying please stay she swore he meant nothing to her after she signed a letter to him apperently saying she was his and saying her last as his last name. so i fogiven her i just cant & wont forget.
Sadly ive staied with my wife who had an emotional affair with my former best friend . we were together 17 yrs three kids & were high school sweethearts. but now since she did what she did writeing him while he was locked up I feel its my duty to show her no love as I usted to /we had a love at first sight loveing supportive went to church together relationship thats now dead to me...asking for me to forget this because she didnt have sex with him ,because (she knew it would be over) if she did that.seems to me like a pretty F*^#! up thing to have to deal with ..Im done being the one who gets told last . I never was a punk all my life I wont be played again by her non-emotional ass.can you belive she grabbed me as I was leaveing after finding out in a love letter from him to her. ya she grabs me saying please stay she swore he meant nothing to her after she signed a letter to him apperently saying she was his and saying her last as his last name. so i fogiven her i just cant & wont forget.
Damned,
I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's horrible. And there is nothing at all wrong with your not forgetting.
Why did you stay?
i have been with y boyfriend for a year. when we got together he was sill living with his ex ( who cheated on him) because they were in a lease together. a couple weeks after we started dating he had sex with her (NEVER told me) i told him he needed to move out when he did he kept her number in his phone. for months i would find phone calls fron her and text messages from her on his phone and he told me she wouldnt leave him alone. so i called and told her to leave him alone she did UNTILL we moved to a different state and he gets a phone call from her, i pick it up and she tells me that he has cheated on me 2 days before we moved with her. she said that he wanted it. i asked him and he denied the whole thing but admited to the one in the begining. a couple days go by she calls again so i ask him again and he admits to sleeping with her insted of coming home to me 2 days before we moved to another state now he wants my forgiveness??? i am heart broken and i am lost, hurt, confused, angry and so much more
I have dealt with a cheating ex girlfriend before and I know how badly it hurts. I don't think it is necessarily true that once a cheater always a cheater, but it leaves a real scar on the relationship and that trust factor is gone. Nice hub.
LOTS of comments on this baby! wow.
I wonder...One of my best friends told me this week her husband EMAILED her his divorce intent (from the second floor of their home while they were both in it!)
How does THAT grab you...
Anyway - she said that he wants her to move out and leave their home and leave him with the kids; he is miserable - says he can`t stand to live with her so she told him then why don`t you move out and he says some shit like - this is MY home.
Like - I don`t know what to really tell her. She`s had a lot of depression and emotional problems...I feel the need to tread lightly.
Any adviceÉ
Melanie
Melanie,
My advice is to get a great divorce lawyer immediately. And she should interview as many of the others in the area as possible as fast as she can. (Then they can't take her husband as a client for conflict of interest.)
If I were her I wouldn't leave, I wouldn't do anything until the best divorce attorney I could find advised me.
I found out 4 months ago that my husband had affair no 3, 5 years ago. He only ended it this January with an e-mail, saying she was his emotional crutch.He used to e-mail her letters every once in a while and then told me those were only an excersise in creative writing....I was 7 months preganant in Jan.I always maintained I will never put up with it again,this is my 2nd marriage, 1st one ended after he had an affair.
I was really upset and angry with him last week and we are trying to make it work, but I battle to come to terms with the betrayal and hurt this has caused me. Do I accept he is sorry and won't do it again?He did it before...what would stop him the 2nd time? I have been married for 11 years now and feel I have invested so much into this relationship, should I forgive? I am not sure I would ever be able to forgive?
He keeps on saying how much he loves me now, but how can I love him now? I am stuck where he was 5 years ago. He loves me now he says, but I do not feel all that much love towards him right now. I always thought he would be the last person to do something like that...I guess not.
Any advice would be appreciated.
L.C.
My partner has had an 8 month affair - i caught him - itemised phonebill - and he admitted it. Our daughter is 10 months old. I threw him out. He works aborad and comes home weekends (he came home Sat aft and went back to work Sun noon) find out later he has spent Fri night/Sat morn with her and her 4 kids - and also returns to her Sun aft/Sun eve before going to work - europe for the week. He took her on a business trip - we paid her fare from his wages. He blamed his moods and talking to me very nasty, and treating me badly on the fact his ex wife was giving him a hrad time and wanted money for their 2 teenage children. I maybe didn't give him the attention he craved at weekends when he returns - but then i am alone with a baby - all our family live 6 hr drive away. He does nothing really to help me with the baby and housework. Of course if I was not so tired i would love to re-kindle our sexlife and social life but have found it all difficult - and also am now back at work too. We are in so much debt. He is now in deep remorse - says he has ended it - she lives and works VERY close to our house - he says he doesn't want to lose us and we can get through this. He is staying with friends at weekends. Any advice would be welcomed
Wend -
Bravo to you for kicking the fucker out.
I've had 2 martini's. So here's the real deal:
Blaming his ex wife and their kids for the way he's treating his present partner and kid, becasue he's actually spending time with the mistress and kids. INSANE. He doesn't care who he hurts. No child is safe. You're in debt and he took food out of your baby's mouth to fly his mistress to europe. He's a bongo, Wend. He's a liar. He's a self serving cheater. He's practically criminal. He's not a man. His word means nothing. Deep remorse my ass.
You did the right thing. You're not a fool, dont become one. Stay strong. You're better off without him.
I keep trying to convince myself that is the right thing to do - all my family are trying to convince me `I have been a doormat for tool long'. He says we both got in a rut over a period of time - he was the one treating me nasty though - while I wondered why and worried every weekend what I had done wrong? Now I know he deflected his guilt on me. He even spent our baby's christening getting so drunk it was a public show -and so embarassing Everyone noticed he was an ass that day and it has got so worse since. He has shouted at me and basically treated me bad 'don't bother comign home I don't want you there' .. then saying he didn't mean it, not saying goodnight hust 'yep' when I said it. Not making eye contact with me for weeks..... No interest in me or the house in months - just getting his laundry done at the weekend - and also seeing his mistress. So I keep saying it will get better - I remember the nice man I met yrs ago and have to remember that guy has gone. He didn't love me when he was visiting her and also he forgot he had a new born baby to celebrate and he chose to go elsewhere to spend his time.... the lies and the way he has talked to me in the pasty year hurt the most. I feel like our baby deserved a much better year than this. I do feel sorry for him, not the man who is now, but the man I met and fell in love with, I would nver hurt anyone how he has hurt me. I do hope he will be happy some place and if he really does change ??Well there will be someone for him
x Thanks so much for your comments it made a lot of difference to a very shit day x
Ive been reading this for about a week and so here goes my story:
Ive been with my man for 11 years now. We started off as friends, eventaully became clser and started a relationship. everything went slow, tha way we wanted because we each had a small child and didnt want to invlovle them unless it was necessary. about year 2 we decided to go the whole enchilada. Kids knowing each other, spending time with each others family, helping each other further thier careers. thing people move toward in a relationship. Everything is going great, he's in love so am I. Marriage comes up but neither of us want to pressure the other since our previous relationships were disastrous. We move in together, kids and all. I finish school, he begins school for a new career, and i support him all the way, the way he supported me. I am your typical devoted mate, empowering her man. Year 5/6 we buuy a house together, my careers going strong, his is great, life is good. We talk more seriously about marriage, he says okay lets do it, but he never actually asked me, never got a ring, just more planning talk and patience on my behalf. I got pregnant the next year, totally by surprise, we're excited, and now he talks more marriage, but it never materializes. I wasnt really worried because we never really were a traditional couple anyway. Then the floor drops out. he looses his job, and can't find another. he becomes depressed. I try to keep him happy, telling him hes a good guy hes just having a bad time. Meanwhile, I work massive amounts of overtime to keep us afloat, all while having a difficult pregnancy. he finally finds work 8 months into my pregnancy, but by that time, I have of course been tired, cranky, irriable and the like, so now he feels some type of way about it. Fast forward baby is born, he seems diffenrent , my guts telling me. I catch him in a #2 with some hussy at work. he says he needed someone to talk to and was sorry. he would never do it again. He seems so authentic, I am angry,hurt. he promised me no sex occured and he wants to be with me. I didnt share this with anyone, not even my mom and sister, figuring I could handle this on my own. Now Fast word to JUly 08. Cahc him in a #3 with some one I work with, who knows me and him, and knows we are together. Apparently it had been going on for about a year, until i caught him. He was taking her to his dads house while hhe was not there for their rendezvous according to the texts.
She's of course sorry, shhe pleaded with me to not kick him out because all he does is talk about me and the kids (bullshit), and he is apparently devasted. This time, I told his whole family, all his friends, and some of my family. All of our mutual friends know, everyone I worked with knew, but nobody had the Heart to tell me because I was head over heels in love with him. She also proceeded to tell everyone about the affair, so now the entire world seems to know. How embarassing for me. It also turns out she was sleeping with 3 of his single friends, and who knows who else. Of course now they all know about each other and are now equally angry disgusted/embarassed. Whatever. So anyway, I kicked him out he left. I cried every night for 2 weeks, quit my job and haven't gone back. His father has called as well as most of his family and pleaded with me to wwork it out. they all thinkk the world of me, but dont throw away 11 years of your life because of some bitch. I am still confused angry hurt. I eventually let him back in the house because the kids were asking too many questions, (we told them he went on a business trip), but he sleeps in the basement.
I need some advice. He wants to work it out, Im not sure I care right now what he wants. I gave myself to him, waited patiently for a wedding that apparently would never happen. Did everything I mate is apparently supposed to do, and for what, NOTHING. He sorry, of course, but i need to know what am I working this out for, what is it going to get me? I thought we were working toward a family, house and life together...but it seems only one of us was. I am completly devastated and I dont know what to to. Maybe therapy will help maybe it wont. I kind of dont care, but i know i am stilll angry and I never make decisions angry. Any suggestions, or have I just been the dumbest most blind woman on eathr for believing and loving someone without reservations? Thats what I feel like a big fat old dummy.
well- I never thought I would say this, EVER, but I am a cheater. After 5 years of marriage and 2 beautiful children I cheated on my husband 4 weeks ago. I was SO completly overcome with guilt that I confessed to him, only 4 days after the first and only sexual encounter.
It actually all started about one year ago when this same 3rd party and myself ran into each other at a bar and after way too many drinks we kissed. I had known this guy for years, and he actually was aquaintances with my husband, they went to high school together. At the time of our kiss last year my husband and I were having alot of problems. All throughout our marriage he has been verbally and emotionally abusive to me. I've been called everything from a Fu*&%$% Bitch" to being told that I can't Fu*$ good and he will get someone who can one day..... We have separated on more than one occassion and always got back together because we can't stand to be apart and we really do love each other. In the first 4 years of our marriage he lied repeatedly to me and was addicted to porn and other degrading things. After four years of the lies and me thinking I was going crazy he finally confessed to his emotional affair on computer and his porn addiction.....
So- to make a long story short this other guy was there for me to talk to a year ago- when the kiss happened. 6 mths after the kiss I confessed it to my husband. I felt like our relationship was at a standstill and I knew this deceit was the cause. He forgave me and we made him, went to some counseling, and things were going better..... I didn't have any contact with the 3rd party after the confession of the kiss to my husband.
Then 4 weeks ago after another huge argument and after being told to "fu#& off" and he was ignoring me for days on end, I had had it! It was like the tip of the iceberg for me. I went out for an innocent girls nite out and just happened to run into the 3rd party guy again. We were both intoxicated. He was complimenting me and making me feel so good, and wanted. Needless to say, my emotional love tank was DRY to the bone, and he was there to fill it that night. During our encounter I was thinking about my husband the whole time. I felt guilty during the whole thing. Four days later I confessed to him.
We are haing a very hard time now getting past it all. I am willing to move forward with him because he is my soulmate and I need him so much. He, on the other hand, says he loves me but isn't sure if he can move past it. So- for now I am gonig to be the best wife I can be and let him try to heal. He is so angry now and lashing out at me, so it's very hard. But as Veronica said, in the end it was my "CHOICE" to cheat. The problems were there, and had been there for a while. Even though I felt so lonely and hurt by many of his actions I made the wrong choice.....So- that's my story! Thanks for the Hub- really puts a great prospective on things.............
So much for So Little - H there- aint sure I am meant to reply to you on here - but I feel the same as you. We were engaged but no wedding - no plans - because he was with her - I have been asked if it is mid life crisis - he has been doing sunbeds - but then the other woman is a funny sunbed orange colour so they must have gone together/ and having tattoos (added to the ones he had).
She mouthed off at me as I walked past the fish and chip shop (UK)where she works, I couldn't hear what she said, I was not impressed - VERY CLASSY - NOT!!! as I went to the chemist with our baby in my arms
He is living in his truck at work at the mo - he drives for a living - he is desperate to get me back - but what can he offer me that would make me want him again?
I think we should confer and see if we can support each other!
Right on, Veronica. Awesome hub! Got a fan!
divorceman
I hear what your saying I am going through this right know exactly the same thing.I feel like there is no remorse or consequence to his actions.Ever!!!!!!!! Im so afriad that this will continue and the pain with in me will just get worse. Everyone has such a wide option about this situation the biggest one is to leave and not try to work it out no matter what the situation is its scary because when your hurting so bad that option seems like the way to go just to start getting over the pain.no matter what you say the person who gets cheated on is the one who pains....And what is wrong with the girls/and guys today married menand women there are many single people out there it kills the whole family and destroys life as the family new it.
Thanks wend for the support... i still want to bash her head in, but im not going to jail for a floosy.
I've been working this through myself; i actually let him be nice to me without being bitchy and snapping at him, and he started to remind me of the person i fell in love with. the only problem is that my claws are still bared, and i am just at my wits end. i feel like i'm pretending with everything. im starting to not care about a lot of things, like my feelings anf life have been drained from me. Little things are setting me off, like recyclycling sitting at the door for 1 week as he continues to walk by "forgetting" or whatever, bills npt getting paid. He should be kissing my ass, there shouldnt be a late bill or crumb left in the house if i ask him to take care of it. It just aggravates me...and then I start thinking about the affair and everything along with it and the cycle starts all over again. How do you ove on or work through it? I guess I need some therapy for myself. I know this is a rant, but I am having so many fellings right now...I love him one minute, hate him the next, want him to leave, but miss him when he's gone. AHHHHHH i guess I'm going crazy....
Let me try and make this brief and to the point.So, I ended up finding out that my girlfriend of 7+ years had cheated on me 4 years ago. I went through the motions for a few days with her and felt that we could move past it. She messed up, she was young (22) and we were dealing with some issues. Okay so we move on.Then I find out about 3 weeks later that she had been seeing another guy for 9 months of this year. Two months of talking and 7 months of sex. I moved in with her in July and she had already been sexually active with him for two months or so. She has been leading a second life while living under one roof. No issues at all. Not sexual nor attention issues or any issues at all. When I found out about this, I kicked her out of my place. So now she's staying with a friend and she has disconnected her situation with this other guy because she now realizes that she never wanted to have a serious relationship with him, loves and wants to be with me and has always wanted to be with me and it was more of a side thing for her that she let go too far.So here I am now trying to figure this thing out. We haven't seen each other for a couple weeks, though she still emails me about how she wants to still be with me and yada yada yada. I've been maintaining my space and giving her hers.She definitely loves me and I love her. There is no one we ever wanted to be with other than eachother.as far as being in a relationship. But she completely hid this other situation from me and had no intentions on telling me for the rest of her life. I don't deserve what happend me. She knows that and is ready to accept the full consequences of this and will most likely have to deal with her foul actions for the rest of her life. with or without me.So what should I do? I'm a bit lost in this. I think space is good, but like any habbit that you have, its hard to quit. I know I can go on with my life without her, but do I really want to? Even with all that she's done to me, I still see a future with her and she of course sees one with me. She is showing growth and has waken her up quite a bit. Hmmm.What do you guys and girls think I should do? I'm wide open to opinions.
Dear 25and lost,
I've been reading this blog for a while after having discovered in August that my husband of 15 years was having an affair for the past 6 months. This was a serious affair - both sexual and emotional - that of the worst kind. There was even discussion between my husband and his affair partner of running away together.
I am one of those people who has chosen to stay in my marriage and try to work it out. I realize this is not the popular opinion on this website, but no one can possibly know what they would do if faced with this crisis. I was also someone who said I'd NEVER forgive this unspeakable act.
I am in a much different place in life. I'm 47 years old, married for 15 years to the same man, and we have 2 beautiful children together. The unsurmountable devastation this has caused to my marriage, my children and to me personally, is beyond comprehension. I lived for the first 2-3 months in extreme pain which still exists today. I experienced all of the common emotions of rage, shock, disbelief, resentment, deep depression and hopelessness... along with physiological effects including inability to eat or sleep. It is by far the worst crisis of my life. Some of these emotions continue to be with me, and will be for months and perhaps years to come.
I felt the need to respond to you because you are so young and still uncommitted (by marriage) and without children. While it appears that your girlfriend is truly remorseful and there is a chance she would never do such a thing again, I suggest that you think hard before recommitting. Once you have invested 1/2 a lifetime with someone, it is much more difficult to walkaway, particularly when children are involved.
The bottom line is, people do make mistakes and sometimes they only make them once and learn from them. But forgiveness of an act like this is a GIFT, and one that must be earned. Just be careful, keep your antennas up and never have blind trust. Watch for consistent behavior for at least a year before making any decisions.
Signed,
Heart Broken after 15 years
I dont know if you are going to read this since your situation happened 10 days ago. I have a situation where I was cheated on and lyied to. I got past that and told her that the only way she can regain her thrust is by walking on eggshells. any little thing such as not answering the cell phone would put me on alert. well come to find out she lied again. I could not prove it was cheating but it didnt matter because I did not thrust her. she cries and says she loves me I tell her that that I can t get pass that, and that the only way it could make things right is if she accepts me going to bed with another woman while she watches. If she can endure that then I would endure her cheating, she disagreed so now with dont speak, I guess thats the best way to get rid of her since I love her and would not do so on my own. make her dump you, or let her prove that she can endure something so harsh but deserving.
I dont know if you are going to read this since your situation happened 10 days ago. I have a situation where I was cheated on and lyied to. I got past that and told her that the only way she can regain her thrust is by walking on eggshells. any little thing such as not answering the cell phone would put me on alert. well come to find out she lied again. I could not prove it was cheating but it didnt matter because I did not thrust her. she cries and says she loves me I tell her that that I can t get pass that, and that the only way it could make things right is if she accepts me going to bed with another woman while she watches. If she can endure that then I would endure her cheating, she disagreed so now with dont speak, I guess thats the best way to get rid of her since I love her and would not do so on my own. make her dump you, or let her prove that she can endure something so harsh but deserving.
as i write this i am at the end of my rope.. im a young man that is trying to forgive his high school sweet heart. before i say what happened i know it takes two to tango i know it was partly my fault for what happened, but here it is. she is my first love the one i lost my virginity to the one i love more than anything in this world. and i am a southern man i strongly agree on the trust ina a relationship i would NEVER cheat i would never put myself in the situation, and i always told myself if anyone ever cheated on me i would just leave. but i find myself staring at a wall of emotion. we lived in a small town that i knew everyone in i had a good job i was a hrd worker i had good freinds and family and was trying to get into the military to live up to my familys bloodline, everything was great..
one day she said i hate it here i want to move into the city i want to get away from my family (her dad didnt like me much but her mom loved me idk why but meh) i hate the idea of going to the city it was a new place somewhere i felt out of my medium. ima texas boy i work outside i drive a big truck i worked on for years i hang with the same freinds ive known since childhood i stay near my family, we take care of our own. she didnt understand that and still wanted to move to the city.
so i quit my job i packed all of our things i let her pick the apartment i let her pick everything so she would be comfortable and i thought i would just try to get used to it. so i went to find a job.. didnt work. i went to try to meet new freinds.. i was called a country bumkin redneck.. i tried to go into the military but she didnt want me to leave her. so i stayed lost my confidence lost touch with my family and became.. well, a loser i knew i wanted to do great things but i didnt have the will or the strength to get there i was a broken man. but i never lost my love for her i knew it was hard me not taking care of her like a know a man should but i lost sight of that we got into a rut.
this rut lasted 8months of scrimping around trying to do good.. doing some good then something happens and i got discouraged and quit again. our sex life started to dwindle and i didnt want to come to bed anymore i was ashamed. ashamed i was not taking care of her ashamed i was not the lover i once was. and i watched us just.. become freinds int eh same house.. until one day she told me im losing my love for you.. right then a fire lit right under my ass and i jumped into high gear i tried new things i got a job.. a small one but thank god a job i became the most amazing lover she had ever seen. then something weird was happening.
i was the only one trying. she stopped comunicating she stopped being my freind she became a roomate. so she asked me to leave. i didnt want to. i cried i told her i want this to work i showd her eveything i had been doing yet she still wanted me to leave. i got mad.. my temper swelled.. i broke all of my things int eh house.. dressers.. doors.. tvs.. you name it. in some weird way i only broke my own things nothing of hers.. i guess i knew it was my fault.. she was crying because i thought i had scared her.. (i later found out it was a diffrent reason) she called the police on me and said i called them you need to run before they come.. i didnt mean to but i just did.. but i refused i stayed there and told her.. as i told you fromt he first time i said it.. i will always love you until the day you truly stop loveing me.. so i waited.. outside of the door i gave her the option to close me out of the house.. she didnt she started crying and sayimg im sorry over and over.. until the police came and tok 3 of them to drag me to the ground ( idk why.. i wasnt mad or yelling just sitting there wondering why she was saying sorry when i was the one acting like a jackass) so they made me jump in my truck and drive... "home"
i went to my family i told them what i did and al my dad could say was i didnt raise a fool and he smacked me in the mouth and said i didnt raise a boy i raised a man.. go man up and be the man she needs go take care of her.. so that same night i drove all the way back.. she wasnt there so i cleaned.. for 4 hours i cleaned then i left her a note saying well.. my heart to hers. then i drove again i drove home and finally crashed..
i woke up and had new vigor i called her she said she loved me and was at her freind laceys house (i knew it was true i could hear lacey and her husband in the background) and i told her i wont return until im the man you need me to be.. she told me she loved me and that was a good plan..
i went out and got her a teddy bear for christmas and was going into my room to send her an amazing email and a picture of it.. when i opened it.. her email box was open.. i guess she forgot to sign out.. i saw what she had said to lacey that night before she left our house..
there was a party 2 days before my blowup she went to for work i remeber it.. i said can i go? she said no.. well? when are you going to be back? ill be bacl tonight" so i waited.. i watied till i couldnt keep my eyes open. she came back at 8 the next morning running intot he bedroom huggin and kissing me saying how much she loved me and she was sorry she was out all night.. i asked where have you been she said at emilys.. its a coworker of hers. i bought it..
so back to the email and the picture of the bear.....i opend my laptop and saw what she had been syaing to lacey 2 das before my temper tantrum.. after the work party she went back to one of the guys places for drinks and a movie... she said he was really sweet..and then she had slept with him..and enjoyed it.. and wasnt all that guilty........ so i called her and confronted her she said she was drunk and didnt mean it or care about him she said she was so sorry she said sh eowuld worship me if i fograve her.. but my heart hurts my heart aches i want to wake up from this horrid dream.. i want to fogive but im faced with my first rule.. "if it ever happened to me i would leave" well im faed with this wall of emotion she wants to be forgivin i love her yet even still with all my heart..
now comes the question to my.. well long story (thank you for reading if you lasted this long) do i forgive? do i forget? all i can picture is them together and this sharp pain in my heart but.. i also feel love i cant bear to accept defeat.. i stand by what i said.. i will always love you until the end..,,
Andrew,
You said you're a southern man, so I'm not going to bullshit or coddle you. I'm going to tell you this straight out.
She left you when she made you move to a city you didn't want to live in, quit your job and leave your family and friends. Clearly. She left "you" emotionally and spiritually but let you physically come along for her own comfort. People will say anything when they are selfish and when they are cowards. What she says obviously doesn't matter. What her actions tell you, clearly, is another story.
Instead of being forthright and telling you she didn't care about you, she dragged you through this game.
She didn't care about you, your life, your needs or your wants. She has set up a series of ways where you could fail. Once you failed, she could do the chicken shit thing and claim it was your fault.
Your rule about never forgiving a woman that could cheat on you is a damn good rule. Why would you even consider breaking it.
I don't know why she emotionally left you and moved to the city. I don't know why she didn't care what that did to you, or how hard the city was for you to adjust to or survive in. I have the feeling you're both fairly young and maybe she's really just that immature and self involved. However, I do know that she knew moving to the city would be the death of you, and she allowed it. She stopped respecting you as a man before she started cheating on you. Cheating only compounded it.
You're saying "I will always love you until the end..." is nice in theory, but there is a point where you have to respect yourself enough to say - "OK then, this must be the end," and get away from this very toxic situation. You had your life together. You had friends, family, a good trucking job, and your happiness. What she gave you wasn't love. One partner does not get to rule the other partner's life.
My advice to you is to go home. Go back to where you are happy, where you feel like a man for all you accomplish and have, where you have the respect of others, and the respect of yourself. Forget this woman that cheats on you and uses you and calls the police on you. BTW - I'm not at all impressed with your father's advice or handling of the situation. You needed help and guidance and that's not what he gave you. But that's another article...
If you can't find the self respect to tell her it's over, then tell her if she wants to be with you, you're willing to work on it, but it has to be on your terms now. And it's not going to be in the city, where her lover lives and where you were miserable. You're a fool if you return to that apartment and her set-up.
Go make your own way in the world. Stop living for her- her actions could not be any clearer. She doesn't want you. Live for yourself.
Thank you.. all of you i read every single article it helped to see evry side of the spectrum. i truly dont think i have the strength to forgive her unless of course it was on my terms.. but i dont think its worth it. i guess as of now i will move on. get my own life together and be who i wanna be. i have big plans its gonna take alot of time to get there.. i just hope i can find someone that really cares for me as well.. me.. i just wonder how will i know? i never want to go through anything like this again and now that i think about it. i dont know the first thing about finding someone new.. i know it shouldnt be the first thing on my mind. but i hate the thought of being alone i just hope there is the right woman out there for me. id like to think ima good guy..
for now ill forgive but i wont forget.. ill move on and find my own way in this big scary world thanks again it really helps alot to have an unbiased opinion thank you thank you i think i can finally fall asleep.
My husband and I have been together for 17 years. 7 before we were married. They were rocky. He thought of himself first always. When we went places with his friends he would make me sit in the back seat. We would go jet skiing and he would leave me sitting on the bank for hours while he went off with his friends and partied up the river. He cheated. We broke up and 4 months later we got back together. A year later he told me he was moving away but we would still stay a couple. I have no proof but seriously doubt he was faithful. For one thing he is very sexual. He started to go to strip clubs frequently and even got lap dances. Knowing how I felt he kept doing it because he said he didn't think it was a big deal. Once when we were on vacation with my sister and her family he wanted to go out to the bars. we went to one or two then stopped at another. It was a strip club when I said I'm not going in he got pissed and went in without me and left me in the car. I know your thinking what the hell why didn't you leave. I am thinking that anyhow. The truth is I never wanted my family to know how he treated me. And he was my third serious relationship. I thought there was something wrong with me and I wanted to make it work. I kept letting him get away with it. After 7 years whe were living together and engaged. I got pregnant. I was by accident. At the time we were fighting and I was doubting our relationship. Then the pregnancy made me reconsider. We decided to go away and get married our best friends stood for us. Our families knew. On the way out of town. My husband surprised me with a quick visit to his lawyers where he drew up a pre nup.. Even tried to have child support negotiated in it but ther lawyer informed him in pa that couldn't happen. Once we went on vacation and he left me in the hotel with an injury and went to a swinger resort called hedonism. On our delayed honeymoon after my child was born he again got p***ed off because I wouldn't join him in a strip club. After my child came he still went to the strip clubs got the lap dances even left our child and I at the pool while he masterbated to a porno in the room in the middle of the day. the final straw was when he went down the beach on a carribean vacation and paid for a massage with a happy ending. while I played in the sand with our children building sand castles and ended up having a case of genital warts which he claims are not herpes. He lied for 2 years and I lived like a devoted housewife only with out the sex because of our kids. Then when he started to fight with me about sex and I told him I would schedule a lie dectector test for him he came clean or so he says. He didnt' think getting a hand job was a big deal so who knows. I still have doubts that more didn't happen. I have tried to rebuild our marriage we are on counselor number 5 now. I eve tried to be intimate even though I havent enjoyed a second of it and it makes me sick. I insisted he wear a condom and he threw a fit we went on a second honeymoon cruise he called it and he got pissed off because he didn't get sex every night. He screamed at me called me names embarrased me in front of strangers. left me alone and went off drinking. The cruise from hell. I wish I believed he has and would change but I can't one counselor told me that my husband is self centered and won't change I don't want to believe that but so much of me does. He blames me for cheating because we had a room with 2 beds and I wouldn't have sex with my kids in the bed next to us. I love my husband but I dont feel in love with him. My main reasons for trying to make it work are because my kids are so young and I'm affraid. I need so much therapy. most of the time I despise him. He puts me down and complains about everything.
confused,
I think you've been through so much shit that you're confusing the symptoms with the actual sickness.
Herpes, by the way, is a virus typically appearing in clusters of red papules. Genital warts are a condyloma, and are usually flesh or gray in color. Both are highly contagious, and sexual transmitted, but they are two distinctly different things. They aren't at all the same, each has completely different risks, and each is treated or maintained with completely different medicine. You are being exposed and you need to be sure exactly which one it is.
Things like porn, lapdances and strip bars can all be shared between two normal consenting adults as part of a healthy sexual relationship. In your case, these are merely symptoms of the problems.
The actual problems are:
1 - His blatant disrespect for you and disregard of your feelings.
2 - Your constant reinforcement to him that he doesn't have to change because you continually put it up with it, and take it, and haven't left him. He has no reason to change.
Look, I'm not defending him. It's very fucked up that he wants to have sex infront of the kids, that he cheats, that he lies. But it's even more fucked up that you put up with it, if that's what's really happening. I don't get why you got involved with someone so much more sexual than you are. You knew who he was before you married him. Accidental pregnancy or not, why would you marry someone you were so vastly different from? You described what the relationship was like before marriage. When you don't want to do the things he wants to do, he leaves you to go off with friends. Neother of you are happy. He proved to you over and over the kind of partner he was going to be and it's clearly not the kind of partner you want. Yet, you chose to marry him. You proved to him it's OK that he treats you like shit: he treated you like shit, and you married him for it.
And you stayed. And you kept having children with him?
I'm at a loss. I have no clue why you married him, why you bred with him, or why you stay with him. The only reason you're giving is because you're children are young. I don't get it. Do you think this is the healthy choice for your children? Do you think teaching them that if someone disrespects you, lies to you, and cheats on you that you should stay and take it, is going to give them anything other than really fucked up self esteem? You can't really think staying is in their best interest.
You're right, you need alot of therapy. You have got to stop making yourself the victim. You really need to take a deep breath, take charge, and stand up for yourself. Start being a real role model and effective parent for your children instead.
I have dealt with this first hand. I became engaged to my best friend of 3 years and everything was great. We made so many plans for a great future and he was so great with my son I had from a previous relationship. His old friends came around and he started to lie about everything and sneak around.
He cheated on me twice with some girl and I took him back after he kept apologizing and saying it was a mistake and he needed to fill a void. I figured I'd rather live miserable with him then without him so I stayed. Then I found out I was pregnant and it seemed everything was ok. Things were still a little rocky, but I figured we'd get past it.
Well then I find out he cheated on me two more times with a different girl and got her pregnant. He had been telling her that him and I were over and he loved her and how happy she made him. They even made plans to move to another state. His explaination was that he was desperate and once again, he was sorry. He said he'd never do it again, but how do I get past this especially with the other woman being pregnant? I chose not to go through with the pregnancy due to other valid reasons. I can't even be in the same room with him now without wanting to rip his head off. So I guess once a cheater always a cheater and I should've realized that the first time.
Tasha
Thanks so much for sharing your story. I'm glad you didn't go through with the pregnancy, it certainly sounds like you've made some hard decisions, and I applaud you for seeing clearly now.
I agree with you, once a cheater always a cheater. You'll find the people that protest that are either A - cheaters, or B - trying desperately to rationalize their own stupid behavior in staying with a cheater.
You need to get away from this guy. He's telling another woman he loves her, making plans, having a family with her, telling you lies. It's insane. You know what you have to do. Good luck to you.
This is my first time reading this hub and I have to say it's the first time anyone has hit the nail so firmly on the head. Veronica, you have brought the question of staying with a cheater to its absolute basic truth. Why should I stay with a liar? We have all told lies in our relationships, but the lying and deceipt of a #3 affair is almost too much to take. I found out 3 months ago that my husband of 15 years had been having an affair with a piece of shit single mother where he worked. It amazes me that he was willing to create a single mother of a teenage girl out of my daughter and me and planned to move in with his whore and her teenage daughter to be their savior. I heard the whole package of bullshit- I don't know how it happened, I wish I never did it, I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage. Fuck that. Too late. The thing you could do to save our marriage is to invent a time machine, turn it back one year, and remember that you're married and should not fuck other women. I allowed him to stay in our home to work it out and we are seeing a marriage counselor. Yes, I still love my husband, but cannot get over the fact that he was capable of lying to me over such a long period of time. The affair and any additional info about it were all painfully extracted by me. He didn't come clean at first, told me he was having an affair, but there had been no sex, just kissing. What a surprise when I found out a month later that they had been having sex for months! Shocking. What man carries on a relationship with a woman, spends time with her and doesn't end up in the sack? He also initially said that it was over, but continued to be in contact with her. Now, he says, it is REALLY over. Oh, thanks. The lying is unbelievable! I don't think he will do it again, and I do think it is over, partly because I am all over his every move and checking his phone, car and pockets. When he was confronted initially about this, he told me that he loved me, but was not "in love" with me. He told me that his plan was to leave me and his daughter and move in with this woman and HER daughter and move on. I convinced him that he should not do this and 2 weeks later, he agreed to stay and work it out with me. At the time, I was desperate to keep my family together, but now, I am starting to be constantly plagued with the thought of his decption, his lies and the fact that I was stupid enough to have married a man that was capable of all this. I am so fucking tired of all these people ,professional and otherwise, who say that the marriage must have had problems before the affair and that i should be willing to accept blame for some of these problems. No shit!! Every marriage has problems- but some of us decide to work out the problem, not spend every spare moment with another person, outside of the marriage. How do you work on problems when you are not giving any effort or attention to your marriage. I am still in this marriage, but am holding on a thread. Thanks, Veronica , for a piece of the truth and a reality slap.
Wow Realitygirl!
Let me tell you something. Those assholes that tell you that you should accept blame for part of the problem if your husband cheats, are idiots. Would they tell a battered woman she has to accept her share of the blame for being hit?
People in Affair #3 - No one is saying there weren't problems in the marriage. And in some cases the man has every reason to want out. I'm saying, so then be a man, and get out. Spend the energy working on the marriage. And if it can't be fixed, then leave: honestly, respectfully, and with dignity.
Cheating is paramount to hitting. It's a coward's way of dealing with things.
I've said this over and over, in many different hubs and articles. Sometimes marriages fail. Sometimes people just fall out of love. Sometimes they got married too young, too fast, or for the wrong reasons. Sometimes there are real reasons to end it, like changes, and money, and children, and in-laws, and lack of sex. I'm not saying anyone should stay in a marriage where they feel unhappy, unloved, unvalidated, unattractive, or unsatisfied. All I'm saying is, be honest.
A marriage not working out is something that happens. However, cheating is not just something that happens. Cheating is a character flaw. It has nothing to do with your spouse, or your marriage, or anything other than your own inability to be a decent human being.
Realitygirl, I don't know what happened in your situation, and I don't need to. If the marriage had problems, he could have been honest. He could have told you why he was unhappy. He could have tried to work on it. And if it didn't work, he could have left. It would have been hard and painful now, but at least it would have been honest. Looking back, you'd be able to respect each other as people and parents.
Instead, he chose to lie and cheat, and take such a cowardly self-involved way out. That's not a man, thats a cockroach.
Good luck to you.
hey veronica, computer crashed...was'nt able to keep up to date with u and my situation, but have enjoyed getting updated with the hub...we're back online and hope to be able to provide a silver lining for maybe a few of those who are suffering so much pain. for those of you familiar with my story, guess what, there are some situations where you can forgive, and it actually works out...rare stuff I guarantee....but it has actually worked out for us.
my story is on this site about 10 months ago...wanted to forgive, but was'nt sure...veronica gave some great input, gave me some clarification...while I know veronica truly believes "once a cheat, always a cheat", she is not rock hard on that, and neither am I. I chose to go the forgiveness rte, against all I believe in and in this one instance, seems to have paid off
we are now in a new phase of trust...she opened up a level of transparency that I have never experienced in any other relationship...could it be a ruse? perhaps, but as I said to her..."I go forward with eyes wide open"...my heart does not deceive, cause I don't let it....my heart does not rule my mind, my ability to look at life on an emotional level without reason...to see the truth of why certain things happen. we are human, which contrary to some, does not mean we are perfect...in fact quite the opposite. as survivors, we react to every situation in a survival mode...we control life in the way we need to provide happiness, security, and health so we may go on to lead long fulfilling lives.
however....it takes a certain amount of intelligence, coupled with common sense to make it work, unfortunately we dont all have all the tools to make it all work. so thank our higher power for forums like this one and people like veronica who keep things like this site going....thanks for the read, and do know that on a rare occasion, you can forgive a cheater.
veronica....u there?
I'm here.
I almost died when I read the piece above from Reality Girl. It's the EXACT same situation I've been through, to the degree that I could have written it WORD for WORD. It was so eerily similar that I showed my (cheating) husband and we both literally laughed out loud because even the words she used to describe him, the situation, and the whore...are the same as I use on a daily basis. It just goes to show you that there's more than a common thread among this breed of cheaters engaging in #3 style of affairs.
After 15 years of marriage, I also discovered that my husband was having a full blown affair with a piece of shit single mother at work. Except she worked FOR him so he blew his career in the process because he had to resign! He is now still unemployed, 6 months later in the worst ecomony in 35 years, and I'm supporting the whole family.
He didn't come clean, he was caught. But when he was caught, he didn't lie about the extent of it. He admitted it was both emotional and sexual....and said he thought he had "fallen in love" with her. He even told her that he still loved me but only as the mother of his children and he was no longer "in love" with me. Sound familiar?? I was also amazed that he was willing to create a single mother of a girl out of my daughter (mine is only 10, not a teenager...but we have another little boy of 7...so DOUBLE the amazement). And he planned to move in with his whore and HER son and daughter to be their savior.
In Reality Girl's words, I also heard the whole package of bullshit- I don't know how it happened, I wish I never did it, I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage. Fuck that. Too late. The thing you could do to save our marriage is to invent a time machine, turn it back one year, and remember that you're married and should not fuck other women.
I also allowed him to stay in our home to work it out and we are seeing a marriage counselor. Yes, I still love my husband, but cannot get over the fact that he was capable of lying to me over such a long period of time. The affair and any additional info about it were all painfully extracted by me. He also initially said that it was over, but continued to be in contact with her. Now, he says, it is REALLY over. Oh, thanks. The lying is unbelievable! I don't think he will do it again, and I do think it is over, partly because I am all over his every move and checking his phone, car and pockets.
I initially convinced him to stay and he agreed to work it out with me. At the time, I was desperate to keep my family together, but now I am starting to be constantly plagued with the thought of his decption, his lies and the fact that I was stupid enough to have married a man that was capable of all this. I am so fucking tired of all these people ,professional and otherwise, who say that the marriage must have had problems before the affair and that i should be willing to accept blame for some of these problems. No shit!! Every marriage has problems- but some of us decide to work out the problem, not spend every spare moment with another person, outside of the marriage. How do you work on problems when you are not giving any effort or attention to your marriage. I am still in this marriage, but am holding on a thread.
What is with all you peaople out there? My ex-wife cheated on me for years,first emotionaly,then physically.She would have kept doing it till she got caught !We had been together 20 years,she cheated on me before we got married split up for six months and I took her back.Red flag #1
We had four wonderful children who we both adore, but it did not stop her from cheating again.Her excuse for leaving was she felt she needed a change.Now she wishes she put more effort into her marriage.....
My ex-wife had it all..the big house the fancy car the travel my unconditional love and attention.After a year of counseling I've come to the conclusion it has nothing to do with me.
It did not matter what I gave her what I did for her or how much I loved her she is who she is a CHEATER !!!
Facts-She was married before to a NICE guy ,she cheated on him with all 5 salesman in the office.
Then I met her she cheated on me 3 times.
She's cheated in relationship she has ever been in.
All these facts are of her own accord that she told me, when she left me.I asked her "Why are you telling me this now" her reply " I never wanted you to think any less of me"
I loved this woman with all my heart I had nothing left to give it was just not enough.
Bottom line. Once a cheater always a Cheater,as Dr Phil said a'" persons future behavior is directly related to ther past behavior".This woman moves from men to men with no remorse or regret.She is who she is.
If you ever take them back they will just do it again.No if's and's or buts.
For all of the people left behind there is a light at the end of the tunnel ,time.
Please feel free to comment
as for me i cheated once and i regreted badly. it thought me how to care for others feelings. so i told myself i wont do it again. i stick to my word. but i think right now karma hit me in my ass. im in a relationship with this person i love so much for almost 2 years. he cheated on me when we were half a year and what really sadden me is that he cheated on me with my bestfriend( affair with the flesh) then he had affain with mind with other females. i lost count. i still took him back because i love him so much. but all the things he did to me is hunting me so bad, right now we kept on fightin over and over again cause of what he did to me.
cassjr, from dave...
am so sorry for what happened to you, but I must dispute "once a cheater always a cheater"....most are, indeed...but not all. oh and btw...counselors are a funny group...I went to a marriage counselor to try and save my 3rd marriage...there was no cheating involved in this one and both my ex and I were both spilling our gut to her. my last visit with this counselor, she told me to get on with my life, that the break-up was not my fault, and that we were just too different from each other to ever make it work...yet she told my ex that I was a basket case...at the same time that she was telling me that my ex was a psycho-neurotic. we have a beautiful daughter together, and we work together to make the best life for her that we can under the circumstances...she is straight A, honor roll student...is playing piano at a level two years beyond where she should be with the amount of lessons she has had to this point...I share this with you...because of your four children...and I know this is going beyond the true scope of this hub so, all I really want to say here is that your children are precious gifts and please do all you can to make sure that they do not suffer cause of your perception of what you feel your wife is, even if it is correct...now back to the once a cheater, always etc. sorry but I cannot agree...I've been through it...I've done it.(period) I cheated when I was younger...have been cheated on more than once as I got older...am currently in a relationship with a woman who I caught cheating...almost a year ago, and was posted on this hub, over the last many months, we have(with the help of none other than our Veronica) been able to open a level of trust through transparency...I know full well that this is probably the exception to the rule, but cheating is not ALWAYS due to somekind of character defect...once in a while it takes two to...well...tango! all I'm really trying to say is careful how we brand people, for all I know, your ex may be like the majority...after all she does seem to show no remorse...but have you thought about this...sometimes it is easier to be martyr than to hurt someone you care about...like someone you have had four kids with...perhaps cowardly...but something tells me just from the tone of your text that perhaps, just perhaps...you may have had a roll in her infidelity? I will say this...as a man with many male friends, as a group...we are led by ego, and the little brain between our legs, the inability to give women the respect they are truly deserving of...and this is what I truly believe causes women to stray...why do guys stray...testosterone overload, and the fact that for centuries its what we do...supposedly our right (at one time) and now the women are saying fuck that and us guys are whining, "hey! wassup!" and saying once a cheater always a cheater...I'll bet dr. phil is a cheater and always will be, so of course he should know!!!!!!!! I'm done, thanks Veronica for letting me vent...dave
AS someone who recently discovered being cheated on in the manner of your second reason, I'm torn between my anger at his betrayal, and my crushing pain, but I felt compelled to bring my opinion to this forum. Yes, he lied to me, and yes he betrayed me, but I very much resent being looked at as a fool or an asshole, for not wanting to see my marriage end. What about the strength of my vows and promises? Don't I deserve some credit for being a faithful, honorable, and loving wife who has integrity enough to see that I can still love despite being hurt and betrayed? Doesn't my honesty and conviction count for anything? Aren't we always told that to err is human to forgive devine? Yes he disrespected me, he hurt me, and he lied to me, but don't belittle me and those like me for being the honest, true, committed ones in the relationship. I believe in my wedding vows despite what he's done to me and I'm not an asshole for that. Do I have selfesteem issues? damn right I do, but I also know that I strength enough to see that he's still got some good inside him despite being an asshole. Will he have to pay for what he did? Damn right he will. He has a hell of a lot of amends to make, but don't belittle me for having the strength to give us another shot. I vowed to be his wife for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, in good times AND in bad. I believe in those vows and their importance, and I won't be looked down upon for having the strength to forgive.
Hi all,
its great to chance upon this thread..i came from somewhere in the east. now deliberating a divorce. we are married for 6.5 years. after giving birth to my 2nd child, 2 years bk he got himself involved with a pub waitress, regularly visiting her. i flipped and threaten divorce, but i took ownership of the problem and spoke to the pub owner ( as he is a fren who haf 3 failed marriages ) to stop asking hubby to patronise his pub.
9 months later, i caught sms on his phone from another girl who is also a pub waitress..asking him wat time to meet. it was confirmed that its another of his attempt to seek thrill. he swore and begged me to take him bk..he said it was foolish of him and promise that he will never go to pubs anymore. i took him bk after 1 week...as the children missed him.
juz another 9 months later, which was 4 days ago, i caught another sms from another girl asking him wat time is he picking her up for drinks and supper. this again is a different pub girl who probably offer "extra services" as well..he juz got to know the girl in the afternoon!! i sent him bk to his mum place right away.
no sex was involved for all above 3 encounters. and i believe it's all because i discovered them at the infancy stages. if not they would have developed into full blown affairs. these 3 girls shared the same traits, they were foreigners..and my hubby say its cheap thrill...pls tell me..how do i believe him?
i am not gorgeous but definitely charming, very responsible mother who have been paying debts and household bills for him. i am a graduate while he's high school grad.
to be very honest, my temper have been extremely bad, when he failed to make payment for his debts i shout at him. even in public. he juz kept quiet knowing that its his fault. but i always say, if you have a problem tell me. he did not, instead he turns to flings for attention. its day 4 he's away. i am more calm but wonder if things can work anymore.
he came from a thrashy family, dad walked out of the family too. he practically haf NO role models of how a good responsible husband should behave.
thanks for listening, i need some good advice..
toto,
sure seems like a dead end road for the two of you to me...I would say that unless he is willing to do some time in A.A. as it appears he is spending his quality time in the pubs, that he will continue his past behaviour and your life will be consumed with trying to find out the truth...why waste all that time and energy when you already know what he is all about...himself...never stay together "for the kids", especially when you know that staying together will bring them nothing but turmoil...think, you know what you need to do...heal, and move on.
I don't know what to do. I have had an amazing marriage with my husband for 4 years and I thought we were very happy together. We were best friends, soul mates. This morning he accidently left his email screen up and I discovered several provocative emails exchanged between him and a long term friend of his who lives in a different state. He asked her things like what she was wearing right now and if she would consider pleasuring herself in fornt of him, if she sleeps naked...things like that. I was devastated - I never thought he was capable of this. I confronted him and he said they were just joking and that they had always joked like that for years. I didn't see it as a joke - it sounded pretty serious to me. The dates on the emails were from 2006 and I didn't see any recent ones. He says he knew it was wrong all along and eventually he told her it had to stop. I don't know if I believe him that he ended it (she got married right around that time so she might have ended it). He says he loves me very much and he'll do whatever it takes to prove it to me. Says he can't imagine losing me, etc etc. Says he wants to work this out, etc. The thing is that we have a 3 year old son with autism and I have to stay home to run his intensive therapy program out of our home. It's the only proven treatment and he's made great progress so far but he still needs a few more years of therapy. If I divorce my husband, then I think my son's therapy will have to end becasue I'll have to go back to work adn won't be able to be here 7 days a week to run his home program. I can't do that to my son. I'm really in a bad situation. Any advice?
I don't know what to do. I have had an amazing marriage with my husband for 4 years and I thought we were very happy together. We were best friends, soul mates. This morning he accidently left his email screen up and I discovered several provocative emails exchanged between him and a long term friend of his who lives in a different state. He asked her things like what she was wearing right now and if she would consider pleasuring herself in fornt of him, if she sleeps naked...things like that. I was devastated - I never thought he was capable of this. I confronted him and he said they were just joking and that they had always joked like that for years. I didn't see it as a joke - it sounded pretty serious to me. The dates on the emails were from 2006 and I didn't see any recent ones. He says he knew it was wrong all along and eventually he told her it had to stop. I don't know if I believe him that he ended it (she got married right around that time so she might have ended it). He says he loves me very much and he'll do whatever it takes to prove it to me. Says he can't imagine losing me, etc etc. Says he wants to work this out, etc. The thing is that we have a 3 year old son with autism and I have to stay home to run his intensive therapy program out of our home. It's the only proven treatment and he's made great progress so far but he still needs a few more years of therapy. If I divorce my husband, then I think my son's therapy will have to end becasue I'll have to go back to work adn won't be able to be here 7 days a week to run his home program. I can't do that to my son. I'm really in a bad situation. Any advice?
My husband cheated on me, (in the third way) for years on end & i found out about it about three years ago. He is a Doctor, a good working professional, while i am a stay at home mother to our two children. I thought about divorcing him, on the spot, then. But we got counseling, and everything is ok now... All I'm saying is that men are scum... But they deserve another chance. I love my Albert!! he is the best thing for me, & I am so glad that I chosem to forgive him. We haven't even been to counseling for a year and a half. He used to stay at his job late, but no more. He used to never bring me flowers, now he does. All I'm saying is that I would have missed the remarkable transformation that has taken place in him had I dumped him then, as I have fallen ever deeper in love with Albert than I ever was, even than when we had only just met when we were in our late 20's. I am now pregnant with our third kid. I'm just writing this to you to saythat people can change; I have firsthand experience of this... Just look at Albert!
Trisha Jane,
Wow, thanks so much for sharing your story. I'm glad things really worked out for you. Men tend to reveal in their deeds what they really want. He's showing you and I think that's awesome. But for the record, I really think he's the exception ;)
Good for you guys. Best to you.
I can forgive but I can never forget. I think that when someone betrays your trust, you tend to get a little suspicious and paranoid and watch their every move. Then, when they fall again, all your past hurts you never forgot come flooding back. I think if someone cheated, it's something they have to live with, but whether to forgive and forget, that is something you have to live with.
I thought I could forgive, after the first time. We cried together, promised to each other that we would work it out. She begged me not to go, and I made the decision that I didn't want to - that hard times with her were better than any time without her. I forgave her. We were going to address the Problems that "led" to the cheating, maybe get into therapy together.
Then she did it again. Different boy, same intimacy (Type 2), no desire to be faithful, no desire to work things out aside from keeping appearances for me so she could end our relationship when it was convenient for HER, as opposed to being honest up front.
Add to this her syncopantic friends in non-monogamous relationships who rushed to her aid, believing the opportunity to free her from a single-partner relationship and all of its "problems" was their calling; their crusade as self-described feminists. Then add in the Boys she met online; the ones all too eager to explain how horrible I was and how I had it coming and deserved it, how I didn't understand what I had and how willing they were to show her, love her, and make her their own - in exactly the same fashion that the syncopantic friends believed they were freeing her from.
And with all of that considered, I'm still relieving her of the responsibility of her own choice. Her choice to listen to those voices and believe them, her choice to cheat, her choice to destroy the 6 years we had in a matter of weeks without lifting a finger to speak to me, end it honestly like we had agreed multiple times we would do, or be up front with me. In the end, as angry as I am about all of that, the choice was still hers and she made it.
And to think. I was going to put an engagement ring on her finger this year for Loving Day - not that the syncopantic friends and all the Boys would ever understand why that day would be important to me, or to us. Now I'm not sure she even understands anymore.
Thank you Veronica. I've requoted you over at my blog.
IP = 75.118.173.241
WideOpenWest Finance LLC WIDEOPENWEST
(NET-75-118-0-0-1) 75.118.0.0 - 75.118.255.255
WIDEOPENWEST OHIO WOW-CO11-2-168-118-75
(NET-75-118-168-0-1) 75.118.168.0 - 75.118.175.255
Colubmus Ohio
Report Abuse
So much pain and so much sadness, cheating is hard to overcome some can overcome it and others cannot. It depends on the committment and the communication you have for one another. I believe there is love a percentage of the time in the relationship, but something went haywire for one or the other to go astray. Support groups are helpful and so is counseling if both are willing to heal and get to the root of the problem. Some men and women will always go astray , no matter what the cost and others will work through the mistakes and trust will be regained. No relationship is perfect and we have all made mistakes in some fashion or other. My marriage had adultery in it and I can attest that our marriage has been stronger then ever and trust has been regained. Our communication and committment for each other as been stronger then ever, but we did everything we could to air our issues through counseling and dump our old baggage, in turn we now have function in our relationship and a love that is beyond words. Your article does notate all of the issues surrounding cheating spouses , but some of them do work themselves out. We are the 1% . :)
AEvans,
Thanks for the meaningful comment - therapy and couselling are certainly viable tools that I neglected to discuss, I hope people will consider those options. Your experience is unique and exemplary, and I really appreciate your sharing it here.
Veronica, I believe you should write an article on that, as it should be part II you can include my comment if you wish. Our experience is unique and exemplary as it was a long hard road and we accomplished. We are in love everyday when we wake up. :)
Thanks for the idea! I will have to do some research on it, and see if I can find enough information to compose a useful article. Meanwhile, if YOU write up your story, please come back and link it here.
xo
Great article Veronica.
I have a situation I would like to add to this and maybe get some other peoples input.
To start I will say that your number 2 eg suits me almost to a tee however there is more to the story from my end.
I have been with my husband for 13yrs we have 4 kids together. In my past every male involved with my life cheated. My father with numerous women and my parents stayed together for the kids sake. You are right it was the worst possible thing they could have done. That was the start of my insecurity and mistrust.
On to the two of the more involved boyfriends that I had both cheated on me with their exes. Both times I was told that they are just friends no possible way they could ever be sexual.....well they both did. Wonderfully considerate of one of them did the deed while I was down stairs in his livingroom playing cards with our friends.
When I met my husband we talked about so many things about how things should be in a relationship, I told him that exes are off limits as far as my comfort level goes. I told him that I can tolerate a lot of things but not lies.
Last month I was looking for some pictures I had emailed to his facebook, my backup harddrive crashed and took all of my kid pictures. I always sent the pictures to his facebook and he would recieve notification that he had new photos in his mail. I did not have his password for facebook never felt the need to have it I trusted him.
While looking through these notifications to see if I could find the one particular picture I wanted I came across a quik note from his ex. In this communication he was asking her about some member of her family. So I started to snoop in the next communication she said "don't worry I won't tell her its just too bad she doesn't trust you" and more.....I pulled him up on it and he stated that she contacted him and that he told her that it was inappropriate for him to talk to her as I wasn't comfortable with that and that he would never intentionally hurt me. I was mad and wasn't quite sure I believed him but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Now feeling what I did the moment I found the email I forwarded it to myself and via that sent her a message that "It has nothing to do with mistrust and everything to do with respect for his wife to have nothing to do with his ex. As a woman I hope you would understand that." have heard nothing back.
Well being still suspicious I have found out his password and have been checking his acct. Found another email to another woman from his past where my hubby states "lolol at her bf at the time being really upset at how well they(her and my now hubby) got along" also telling her "I really regret not getting to know you better"
I also figured out a way to retrieve that one e-mail from his ex...after he deleted it....turns out HE contacted her and told her not to mention to me that they had been talking as it would be so much easier for him, cause I got pissy everytime he talked to other women......Never as far as I can remember BTW.
Other incidents with him about lying eg....I had no problem with him going to strippers what I did have a problem with was touching he swore that it would never happen.......I ended up finding a picture of him grinning like a cat about to get some with his hands on her naked breasts. I forgave but never forgot that one and the few others where along the same line of actions. He keeps telling me how sorry he is that he never intentionally hurt me but he intentionally clicked on her link he intentionally contacted her and he intentionally asked her not to tell me. How much more intent can there be.
My biggest thing right now is I can't even look at him never mind have him touch me. This is a repairable dent but I have no idea where to let him start.
Blessings and Thanks for such a great article Veronica.
KK
Recently went out with much younger 26-yr old girl for 4 months. We joked about the difference in age but found we had quite a bit in common.
There were starts & stops to the relationship, but we seemed to keep at it. For a while, we looked like things were heading into serious territory, only to have her suddenly stop communicating & refuse to talk about what's happened.. Finally after 4 days saw her Google chat tagline read "wearing a beautiful dress & a smile to match just for you"..pretty sure she's not doing that for me, but really sad how she hasn't even given an explanation as to what happened.
Maybe some wouldn't consider this cheating since we were "only" dating, but my guess is that they didn't suddenly meet as things went south for us.
I asked her about other times when she was at "dance practice" or "yoga" - rarely getting a straight answer.
While I'm not justifying stalking behavior, I think many of us on this forum can understand how a cheating partner's behavior can drive us crazy for some kind of answer as to what's happening.
So a few days ago I showed up & confronted her, even though she refused to return phone calls / text messages.
Just have the guts to tell someone to their face that things aren't working out!
Guess cheating was an easier way out than having real conversations. Real shame because we might have had a continuing friendship or something else if things didn't work out.
Not much chance of that now!
I've been with my boyfriend for five months and recently confirmed that he's been seeing someone else the entire time. I confronted him twice and he lied about her twice - said she lived in another state and they were good friends. Guess what? She doesn't live in another state - she lives in our city, and they were more than friends. He swears it was a relationship that was dying down and then we met - but he continued to see her. He says they were non-sexual during the time we were together. I saw emails from and to him where they call each other "sweetie" and ending with "xoxo". That doesn't seem like a non-sexual friendly relationship. He tells me that he loves me; my response to him is that I don't think that he knows what love is - love is not lying and being deceitful.
He tells me that he knows he messed up (f****d up were the exacty words) and he's incredibly sorry, and he wants a chance to make it right and show me that he can be trusted. He thinks we have something amazing we can build on.
Sadly, and unfortunately, I have to admit that my feelings for him have changed. I don't feel that I love him, I don't trust him, I don't know how to trust him ever again. He cheated on me, and lied to me when I asked him about it - both times.
Why do I not love and honor myself enough to even consider taking him back? I feel as though I have two people in front of me - him and me, and I have a choice to make about who I'm going to pick. Why would I pick him over me? I've been with me my whole life, and I need to nuture and love my psche. I am so grateful to my friends who are in great relationships with wonderful men - so that I have role models of what love should be, and what a good man is made of.
How do I trust him ever again? How do people do that?
hey veronica!
I'm still around and as promised, keeping you and the rest up-dated as to the success/failure at my attempt to keep the relationship after the affair. ok, so far so good. one responder wanted to know wether or not it ended up in total disaster after 6 months...sorry to disapoint. been over 14 months now...eyes still wide open, still very transparent in all we do. she is still at the same job and has really come to dislike the co-worker she slipped with...she is trying to get a transfer to a different department to get away from him, but as yet there are no openings for a person with her skills. she has been very open with me about her hours, keeps a written log of them, and her paycheck stubs match her log.
we are still together...and happy...but I know that I must always keep my eyes wide open...god I need some sleep!
Hi Veronica,
Ok I am a fan also now.
Sadly, I have come across looking for help and answers as i am more in a number 2. I am ashame, I think, of what my husband has done, and i have not shared it with my close friends as would usually. My mum is my best friend and as she is recovering from cancer and is very passionate, although she is aware of the situation, i cannot discuss this with her anymore.
So right now i feel like i have no one to talk to.
As someone said before, most of my relationships have been with adulterers, so when i married , i decided to marry a religious God fearing 'decent' guy. We married very quickly. and our initial issues were that he had to support him and as he was from another continent, i often wonder if he just married me for the citizenship.
Anyway, for these 6 years i have been begging for some attention on my birthdays, anniversaries, or any other celebrations when he would not do or buy anything for me and i really felt that he didn't love me, appreciate me...I never doubted his faithfulness to be honest, which was a nice change, not having to worry about him going out (because he doesn't...) or anything. I gave birth to his son and he didn't bring anything.
I've explained over the years that this was very important to me and that i need to feel appreciated and validated, but yet he wouldn't do it. How couldn't he?
I wanted affection and he wouldn't give me any.
I always have been the breadwinner, that includes buying his socks and paying for him to visit his mum (twice) abroad, holidays, restaurant ...everything. To be honest i have been tired of this also, as i really need someone to be able to rest on.
So, he works night and i work days, and he is always tired and never spends time with his family or is miserable because he is too tired.
This situation has been taking its toll and i said to him we need to talk as our marriage was going downhill - which he refused to do, but yet anytime i made suggestions he was fast to criticize.
The situation got crazier and he said very hurtful things to me which was a time when i had to live to care for my mum. I asked that he made changes as he apologised before a million times, so this time i needed some action.
So for the past 2 months he has been sleeping on the sofa as he refused to change and said he was saving some money to be able to move out as asked him to do as he clearly stated that he refused to change. Last Saturday, i called him to say i could no longer live like this and that he really need to make up his mind, since we cannot communicate without screaming anymore, this didn't go well...and i proceeded to pack his things. In doing so, i found his last phone bill and found that in his last phone bill he had texts 443 times and this one number in particular, including pictures.
Confronted him, he apologised and begged, lied about who it was and how long etc... so the more i looked into it the more i found he lied and the worst he got. He has been texting and talking to this girl for about 3 months, she said nothing physical happened between them and that he said he had no children nor wife. Turns out he had been texting a lot of women and sending pictures, which he never does with me.
Meanwhile, i am thinking: so the time you were insulting me, and telling me you didn't want to change - you were actually talking to this other woman?
His whole family is begging me to keep him and apologizing on his behalf. He has changed his number since, asked for forgiveness, bought flowers but he doesn't want to talk about it nor does he want to talk to me either actually. i think he is very sorry, but the fact is - he did it, and it wouldn't have stopped - did i not find out about it.
I said to him i want to know, he is not doing it, I am asking for a STD / AIDS test - he said no, yet he wants to fix things?????
I left a letter to say he should move out, i want explanations, no lies, changes, a STD test, change his job (since that is where he meets these women - he works in a bar/club) and re-build the trust, then may be we could 're-marry' - as this one is over. If i lose him to another then it wasn't meant to be, if he is really sorry, then i hope he will do what needs to be done. Do you think this is reasonable - anyone?
I'm afraid that he is only scared because he has nowhere to go, and his papers for citizenship are due this year. How do I believe him now?
I don't know what to do, i am so hurt. Also, as i told him before, i am not strong enough to forgive and forget, how can i trust him again? I honestly never thought he would do this to me. Our marriage wasn't great before that, may be that is why, but why refuse to talk about it and take time to fix it? He is a big man and he made his own choices. I haven't been happy and lacked affection, that didn't entitle me to go and find what was missing somewhere else. I tried to discuss it and it blew in my face.
Oh by the way - he needed affection, yet he doesn't give any as he is always tired and miserable. Does it mean if he goes and live alone for a while, he is going to mess around because he needs 'affection/sex'. Should i forgive him to avoid him going astray?
I feel as he is used to me forgiving him and calming down, he has taken that for granted. If i decide to take him back, i want him to know there are consequences for his actions - would you consider that enough?
I can't believe he has gone there, I have 3 children (the oldest one doesn't want me to be back with him - my husband doesn't spend quality time with them so they only see him as a strict - miserable dad really - my 2 older children are from a previous relationship).
Help please!
so, been 15 months and I could not be happier..I,my girlfriend and her son are sharing a very fulfilling life together...sorry to disappoint those who thought it would'nt last 6 months, and end in a train-wreck. once a cheater always a cheater is too broad a blanket statement and we are proof of that. after 15 months I am not only secure in my relationship, it just gets better every day. I am not trying to imply that this will be the case for everybody, but for some ,there really can be hope...love is the real key here, honesty, and transparency during the healing period is paramount and if you really want to make it work(cheater) then this is not such a huge hurdle. love, live, be honest, and happiness will be yours...no-one is perfect, we all make mistakes, the key is to be true to yourself first and then realize that because you are not perfect, virtually anything is possible. until you can own up to your own short comings, that you have everything to do with whatever happens to you in this tough world to live in. no one is exempt from making mistakes, and sometimes the mistakes we make can result in things that are far too easy to blame on how others respond to the mistakes we made...I guess it's our nature...it is very hard for most people to admit to their own short comings,especially men, for some reason( my ex would call it ego). perhaps it goes back to when we lived in caves, and so deeply ingrained in our psyche that we have created a world where now, "whats good for the goose is good for the gander". never really understood that quip till now. so in closing I would say that unless you are 100% sure that there can be no redemption...and if there is LOVE, give it a chance, be honest with yourself the role you may have played in the affair, and then be honest with each other...I have done a great deal of soul searching to keep this thing together, and it is probably the best expense of energy I have ever used. I am now very happy and secure in my relationship. you will not be hearing from me again unless something goes terribly wrong...hopefully that would be in the form of an obituary...Dave
Hi,
Randomly came across this blog and I really like it.
Well mine is a number 2. We have been dating for 5 years and got engaged last year in July. His ex has been in the picture but he always said thye were simply good friends, they talk alot and she comes to him for relationship advice when fighting with her fiance. Well, Last year I found out her name was his password and I was not in the least amused coz she really is an ex and should be history. I did voice my concerns about their relationship and he said he would never cheat on me with her. Fast forward and two weeks ago, he left his email open and I checked only to find emails of them both saying how much they miss each other, him telling her he loves her and that what they share is special, loving, nice and that they should not end it. There were also emails on travel arrangements but it wasnt clear where. I was so furious and all he did was say it wasnt what I think it is. I returned his engagement ring and told him never to contact me. I did not allow for any explanations because all he kept saying was that its not what I think it is. But how can one still be telling their ex how much they miss each other and say he loves her yet he is planning on walking down the aisle soon. The other thing he said was that he never had sex with her which still doesnt make him a lesser sinner. I feel so betrayed now, but it doesnt help that am being told that he deserves my forgiveness coz no man wont cheat. I know I cant bring myself to getting back with him, and I hate it that he makes it seem like I blew things out of proportion!!! Now his friends keep calling to ask me to forgive him saying he trully loves me and all that. I feel so betrayed right now, and in usual confused state that I am in, I have many questions that cant be answered even to the extent of asking myself if I overreacted although deep down I believe that is cheating.
Maya
Good for you, you empowered woman! After asking you to marry him, he's emailing his ex saying he misses her? That is absolute bullshit. I'd have been out of there too. You did no over react at all. You are an inspiration.
Best to you!
Hi everyone
I caught my fiance having an affair online after 3 months of dating him, he appologised and promised it will never happen again, 6 months later, it was more than one woman, more like 5 or 6 women, where he had chat room sex with them, some of them were even ppl he's met before me and slept with before we started dating, he said things like i wana do u like before, im getting hard do u wanna suck.
He broke my heart but again being stupid i took him bk, now he keeps leaving sexual comments on women's facebook pictures. He claimes to love me and sometimes i believe me, he blames me 4 not trusting him and says the comments are innocnt because they women are only his friends and he's just naturally friendly.
I wanna leave him and i know its the best thing to do, im just not sure if im being a bit harsh, i cant bring myself to forgive him because he keeps doing it. He claims he loves me and he can change, he's 30 and says he's never being in a relationship before me, that is why he acts this way.
Im really heart broken. Please advise me because we're meant to be getting married in 5 months and im scared of the future
I discovered my wife of twenty years, was cheating on me last week. We started marriage counseling immediately, however, I feel like the one who is having to kiss ass, not her. I'm willing to forgive, but I'll never forget.
AMEN SISTA!
I've never been in a marital situation like that, but I have been betrayed by a parent. When any sort of trust is broken- purposefully, over and over, It is not possible to forgive and forget- that is, with still having a relationship with that person. My father molested me, and last year I pressed charges, and haven't spoken to him since. I have forgiven him, but forgiveness has nothing to do with whether or not you have anything to do with him/her, as some people fail to understand.
I had a girlfriend who was a cheater.I dumped her and I'm not talking to her again ever.
Not sure how active this still is, but I'm hurting and would like to put this out there.
Recently found out my girlfriend of 2 years spent a weekend dating an aquaintence after three consecutive weekends on vacation with me. She waited until I was out of town and started contacting him immediately. When I got back she was distant and when I found out she was very hesitant to come clean and I had to nearly pry out what she repeats as the truth.
I gathered my things and left and for nearly a week we had no communication other than a sorrowful text from her wishing to patch things up or continue a friendship. This weekend she is visiting home and we have planned to talk when she gets back, but I'm not sure what I want when we do.
She said there was nothing physical, she is not interested in him in any way, and it was nothing she wouldn't do with a normal friend but the fact that she hid it and lied to me indicates otherwise. She said there were issues left between us and this effected her decision making, but I would much rather have worked it out than go through this. No relationship is easy or perfect, but we had two wonderful years and although the thought of a breakup has appeared in my mind before, only two weeks ago she was planning to attend gradschool together and seemed more interested in a future than even I was. Am I stupid to think there was more in this relationship than I believed? Why the sudden change in her actions? Everyone I know says to move on, I'm young, but I love her so much, and might be willing to forgive her if we can move forward. Would repairing things be a waste of time if we end up breaking up a few months or years from now?
I would appreciate any input, but keep in mind I adhere to an oldfashioned set of values where I believe in comittment and persistance through adversity, and think most of the romantic movies we see today only ready relationships in the real world for failure due to their insistence on love only and ever keeping two people together. Relationships are complicated and there is so much more going on than the immediate surrounding situations romantic fantasy movies are based on.
In essence I wonder if sticking together can do us any good or am I just preparing us both for greater heartbreak in the future. How do you who have been cheated on regain the trust and live with the person who has betrayed you? Keep me in your thoughts and prayers, I've had a brief half day of joy since finding out and it relied heavily on alcohol and a sympathetic close friend. I just want to be happy again, I was only two weeks ago. What happened?
College Guy,
If your girlfriend was older, more mature, more experienced - I would be feeling differently about your situation. If you were married I'd be feeling differently as well.
But considering your specific circumstances and your wording I'm going to tell you my thoughts.
Anyone can make a mistake. It's not like she fucked this guy, right? At least, that's what you believe is the truth. You hinted that you guys were having some issues. She's young, she didn't know better, I imagine she was scared as you said she was the one planning grad school and you weren't as "interested in the future together." She may have been reacting to that. She may have been scared, preparing for that ending she interpreted from her commitment being more permanent than yours.
She certainly fucked up. You're right - keeping a secret like that is a big bad thing. Affairs of the heart are horrific, sometimes worse than sexual affairs. She planned this, she thought about it, she did something deliberately behind your back and lied to you. I am not at all saying this is OK.
But it sounds like her mistake brought the two of you into a real reality check about your relationship.
The answer may be that this is the end, even though it wasn't the one you were subconsciously thinking of. If that's the case, surely you should let this one go. But if it's not, if the pain her mistake caused you has given you a kick in the ass on how strongly you feel about this girl, then don't dismiss just yet.
On an off note - Your "old fashioned" view of love I don't think is old fashioned, just realistic. Relationships are hard work sometimes. But being completely committed at a very young age is a very poor way to figure out what you need in a relationship, what you can give, how you love, and how to be loved. Alot of why your girlfriend made the mistake she did is because she didn't know how to handle things the right way. Someone with more dating and relationship experience might have handled it differently.
I'm not judging, or saying it can't work. I'm saying don't confuse "old fashioned values" with an unrealistic idea that you can know what you want before your frontal lobes even develop. You will be a completely different man at 30 than you were at 22. You will have the physiological ability to comprehend consequence. No matter how mature you are now, no matter how good you are at relationships and loving and self awareness, there are parts of your brain that are just now coming into existence.
My advice is this. Meet with her. Talk. Date again. But take it slow. Maybe even date other people. You do not have to decide right now whether or not you want to give the relationship another chance. Take your time making that decision. Communicate with her. Date others. Be open. You may know in a few months, you may know in a few weeks. But don't make a decision you're not ready to make yet. Don't decide because you force yourself to. Decide when you know the answer.
And believe me, you will.
I really like your hubs Veronica. Thanks. The discussion here has been great. It's got me thinking, and I'm curious, based on Oprah's definition, if a person is open about their intimate activities outside the relationship, regardless of what their partner may think about them, would those activities then not qualify as an affair? After all, isn't that similar to a spouse who devotes their energy to the kids, work, rest or other pursuits openly neglecting or making light of the emotional and intimate needs of the other spouse?
getting there,
Thanks. I know what you're saying. It's one thing to confide in a long time trusted friend, it's another to speak openly to many people, at your partner's expense. If it isn't ok with a person's partner that they speak so openly about their private life, I agree it's a form of betrayal. Not cheating, not an affair, but it is a problem.
Veronica,
On second read, I understand how my last comment could be confusing. I apologize.
What I was really saying is that much infidelity actually does occur while a partner is watching. I was actually trying to draw attention to the fact that based on these new definitions of affairs, a very common, frequently overlooked, and very damaging, though often socially acceptable form of affair occurs at the moment when one partner devotes their energy to kids, work, other relationships, or other pursuits and fails to exert sufficient energy to be engaged with and meet the emotional and intimate needs of their partner. I would place this under the definition of your TYPE 2 affairs. This type of affair frequently leads to one or both partners committing additional TYPE 1, 2, or 3 affairs.
Jon in an earlier comment described this kind of infidelity with the following comment:
"The truth is that for many men affairs begin for exactly this reason. They have often spent years in marriages that are sexless or consist of 90% begrudging sex. Women in the throws of motherhood can go through years with little emotional consideration for men who they see as irritating and demanding overgrown babies. The result of this is that men have normally become tired of and depressed by rejection before they finally decide to reduce their resentment for their spouse and increase their happiness by having an affair."
I understand your resentment if your partner had a full blown affair; I had mine do it and then some. I was raised in a belief that "if you cannot forgive than God cannot forgive you." I did just that; I forgave the people involved. It put the guilt etc. on them to put their actions into perspective. After that, things have changed for the better.
I have been married to my husband for 6 months... we are both in the military and have been separated for 9 months... (got married during leave) I came to find out that while i've been away he has been talking not only to someone else online.. but men. He told me he's been really lonely because all he does is sit at home. I asked him if he was gay and he said he jus feels like if he talked to a girl it would be cheating, all he wanted was to feel wanted. He keeps saying how he's miserable and cant stand that im not with him, he doesnt even have family in the area. I still love him but i just dont know how to take all this. I've dont everything i could to make this long distance marriage work. We never even got the chance to be together. In three weeks I'll be moving to the same place and i'll have to see his face everyday at work... I dont want to divorce him, i just want him to fix his problem. I dont see a forum for this... how do u forgive someone if your in a situation like this? I REALLY REALLY want to...
... my signifanct other works in the restaurant business, and i girl actually left her number on a condom for him along w/ her tip.. now first off who would be attracted to a girl that is slutty enough to do that.. well that just blows my mind. well we were out on a hunting trip and i stayed back at our cabin to get ready to go out to the town bar and he went ahead and hunted for a few hours and his phone went off.. the girl eventually told me everything, thats when i read all the text how he had been trying to get her to come out to OUR cabin and kept asking her to come drink and get in OUR hot tub.. when i confronted him he said that it was just simple flirting and i had no reason to be mad but the girl and the text clearly showed he was trying to persue her but she kept standing him up so i took that as if he would have gotten the chance he would have done it.. but how do i trust him like he keeps threatening to change his facebook password so i cant be in his business, and trys to hide his cell phone at times. how do i go on everyday with out bringing it up, because we have talked it out, and i told him i forgive him, but i just cant stop thinking about it or stop bringing it up and its causing us to fight someone tell me what to do.
Elizabeth,
If he was sorry for what he did he wouldn't be trying to hide anything from you. If he thinks its ok to just flirt with a girl while he's commited to you then you have to think about if thats ok with you. It's clearly not (understandbly) so if you aren't in a serious relationship (marriage) you should try looking for a guy who is willing to give you the commitment you deserve. Which is what it boils down to. He is being selfish by keeping and doing those things behind your back. He hasn't even taken into consideration your feelings. Do you feel you deserve that? He sounds like a waste of your time. If you value yourself, which you should, then demand respect. No one likes a push over so if he doesn't... bail. Be a BOSS don't let him feel he can own you. Be strong because you're better off with heartache for a little bit and finding later on he just wasn't what you really wanted after all. You may not be religious but god will not set you up for something you can't handle. Take that step and do whats right for you.
Renaissance says:
2 years ago
Wow, this speaks directly to me and one of my own experiences... unfortunately, I am not alone in that regard.
As always, Veronica, this is a great Hub!