Harley Davidson's Outrageous Pricing Ripoffs
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A 105th Anniversary FXD might cost Harley $200-$300 more to build. How can they charge $5,625 extra?
Even though I consider myself a dyed in the wool Harley rider I am far from being a monopolist. My lifetime list of motorcycles owned breaks down like this (in order of brand and displacement):
Harley Davidson: XLH1000, FLH1200, FXD
Honda: Minitrail, CT70, Stepthru 90, CB100, CR250, CB350 Four, CB550F, XR650, CB650 Nighthawk, CX650 Turbo, CB750 Nighthawk, Gold Wing Aspencade
Kawasaki: KLR650 Tengai, 900 Eliminator, 1300 Voyager 6
Suzuki: Katana, GSX550, DR650, 650 Savage, GS850 Tourer, GSX1100
Yamaha: RD200, XT500, TT500, SR500, XJ550 Seca, XS650, XJ650 Maxim, 650 Turbo, XS750 Tourer, XJ900 Seca, XS1100 Tourer, FJ1100
These are the bikes I've actually had the pink slip to in my name. If we add on all the motorcycles I've tested over the years for various magazines, then the number goes up into the several hundred. And these tests were not just "kick 'er over and ride around the block" but included several long term tests of over 10,000 miles each. And let's not even discuss the bikes I've raced on track and off road. And mostly crashed...
Therefore to say that I have supremely well-formed calluses on my butt would be an understatement. Now there's a mental image for you! Hope you didn't just hork up your breakfast!
You might also be surprised to learn that the top three all time favorites among my own bikes are: #1) Honda CB350 Four, #2) Yamaha XT500 and #3) Harley XLH1000. My own beloved current FXD doesn't even make the top three. Boohoo.
I am also not at all blind to the fact that to put the name Harley-Davidson outside your Milwaukee or York building allows you to have a license to print money. Harley Davidson's pricing policies have been out of whack since the AMF years and have not really reflected production reality ever since. They justify it by the fact that you're really paying for the name on the tank, and I will certainly grant them that. However, when you look past the hype you find outrageous differences in price right within their own product line.
In anaylizing the 2008 model lineup and pricing structure we find some truly jaw-dropping numbers. First of all, the $6,695 XL883 remains the big bargoon in the Harley stable. Competing in a price category with a bunch of bland commuter bikes, the base Sporty is the cheapest way to get into H.O.G. and many argue the best. Why spend up to three times as much to get (to the uninitiated) more or less the same bike? Especially when after a weekend of savvy mechanical massaging, that "little" 883cc engine can blow away any 2008 Harley box stockers at the quarter mile?
To really get perspective on what a great deal the XL883 is, consider that the Harley's base price is exactly $2,100 cheaper than a Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive. That's a flippin' scooter fer cryin' out loud!!!
So we see that when it wants to, Harley can market a motorcycle which offers superlative value for the dollar. Unfortunately it runs the other way too. Most Harleys are ridiculously overpriced.
Let's consider the typical Harley hype of "Special Editions." Harley has more Special Edition than CNN on a hot news day. What a Harley Special Edition usually consists of is a new paint job, a couple of fancy insets and a whallop at the price tag.
When we look at the 2008 Harley lineup we see two models that just beg to be compared to one another. The FXD Dyna SuperGlide and the FXDWG Dyna WideGlide 105th Anniversary Edition. These motorcycles are pretty well identical in most respects. Let's look at how they differ from one another.
The 105th Anni has a 0.3 Gallon larger tank with speedo, plus a little bit of extra chrome, a touch higher handlebars, a different headlight, a little pad they call a passenger seat, wider muffler ends, smaller air cleaner cover, a little brown scoopythingy in front of the engine, and cast wheels that are a bit different. Oh yeah. And the paint job. Let's not forget the paint job. But that's it. Everything else is absolutely identical in the things that really matter: Engine, Gearbox, Suspension and the Frame.
Don't think that Harley builds an FXD, then takes all the pieces off that it has to in order for it to become a 105th Anni and throws all those bits away, like a corner garage customizer would have to. They build these bikes on an assembly line. When the 105th Anni comes down the line, the assembler just reaches for a different set of handlebars, tank, etc. Therefore when we look at the actual out-of-pocket-to-Harley differential of the bits and pieces that differ on a 105th Anni from the basic FXD, we'd be hard pressed to allow for a couple of hundred bucks, tops.
In that case, can anyone legitimately justify that the 105th Anni costs $5,625 more than the FXD's MSRP of $11,995? Or that I know of several dealerships you can walk into today with cash and a hardass attitude and ride away on a 2008 FXD at $10,500? However, those same dealers wouldn't take a penny off the 105th Anni's price as it's a "Special Edition!" Heck, some of them might even jack the price of the 105th Anni up well past the MSRP. And the truly astounding thing is that they will actually get it! Some stockbroker or daddy's boy is actually going to plunk down nearly $18,000 and ride away.
As for me, I'd take the money that Harley wants for a 105th Anni and I'd go to one of these dealers and get myself a 2008 FXD, and add on a 2008 XL883 just for fun. I'd still have about enough money left over to buy a new Dell PC with 17" flatpanel.
Should it be Shame On You Harley, or would it be better to say Shame On The Suckers Who Pay Those Ridiculous Prices?
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Comments
You're right. There is no justification for these prices. I mean, let's also look at the price difference between Sportsters. Nearly $5,000! For what is essentially the same bike, except some engines are bored out a bit. And when we look at the difference between the FXD and the FLSTC Anniversary, it's close to double the price! People are buying cachet instead of bikes. That's fine with them. I'll keep riding my FXD! :)
I do agree with your point but here is a different view ;
The photo is a Screaming Eagle FXDSE with a 110 engine , 170 rear tire, inverted forks, etc. . The other photo of course is a FXD in pewter .
The Anniversary paint option itself from what I see is about 1k .
I have been pouring over the HD website for the last few years comparing the models for my first HD purchase and here are a couple of my thoughts :
Compare the xl883 with the XL1200r , for 2k you get a tach , a seat for two , a third disc brake , a bigger tank and of course a bigger engine . Probably close to the same price if you do it yourself give or take ?
Compare the FXD with the FXDC , for 1k more you get a seat for two , bigger fuel tank and some chrome .
When its said and done we cant complain about Harley Davidson pricing because they have the highest resale value . My buddy sold his 20yr old Harley for $600 more than he paid for it after 20yrs . Try that with a Honda shadow or anything for that matter .
Besides if Harley's where cheap everybody would have one ! Kinda keeps the Riff Raff out !
Enjoy the ride ! Dave
Hey Dave,
It was the "riff raff" that maintained the legendary pop culture mystique that is Harley Davidson. The doctors and lawyers that buy H-D now as status symbols have done nothing for the biker image and culture that kept the company alive for so many years. H-D should remember the blue collar guy who wants to ride and its pricing should reflect that.
Have you seen other American Bikes...Hold on to your hat..40 to 50.000 $
no thanks, I got me a used Sportster, 3.000 See ya on the road........
O.K. all you anti H.D.BOYS, justify your dislike for the make because you can't afford one or are to tight with with your $$$ to pop for a real M.C., I have been riding for 52 yrs. and have just bought my 7th H.D. and there are 2 more in my garage, I would like to see you rice rocket jocks ride with some of the boys i have in the past, you might not be here. I guess thats why every time I stop some where there is a rice burner they all drool over the H.D.'s. I would think that instead of bad mouthing the name you would have the balls to admit you either can't afford one or won't spend the money.
P.S. Whats wrong with blue collar, most of us are.
Keep your little scooters with your lunch boxes straped to the back in the right lane and under 35 so you won't get hurt.
Watch what you say OLD man. This is my 3rd Harly, Plus if you like blue collar
like you say you do, you know 25.000 to 50.000 on a bike is foolish if you dont
have the cash. We have kids and bills to pay, We ant rich like you candy ass rich
boys..The red and white ride sportsters. I dont suppose you would like to tell them
that thay dont ride real Bikes . My little scooter has 110 HP. and will blow your
old man bikes away.. ps you dont want to ride with some of the men I ride with.
So keep your bengay and your fat face at home...
To Eric, Hey man whats the problem, no need to get personal and call brothers names, I have my kids raised and I paid my dues so I can feel for those that still have little ones at home and when did sporty's not qualify as H.D.'s, I have a lot of friends that ride um, my whole message was directed toward those that bad mouth H.D. because of the cost, last check on e-bay you could buy a H.D. for just about any price depending on the model and don't forget they are built in the U.S.A. and that to me is very important, by the way I have been a heavy equipment operator all my life so if that makes me a candy ass so be it.
# 1. your not my brother. #2 You got personal with the others who only bad mouth
H,D, not other bikers. you got personal and called other bikers names, like Rice Rocket Jocks, rice Burners, Little Scooters, Cant Afford One, Wont Spend The Money,To Tight With Money..
I may not ride other Bikes, But I dont Show Disrespect to others who do.
52 years of riding did not teach you a thing about respect to others who share
the wind we ride in..YOU should say sorry to the others and call it a day...
h-d's are overrated- and overpriced - harley culture is evolving- and its not for the better- old people in a mid-life crisis trying to hang on to their glory years running out and buying a way over priced motorcycle . my "jap" bike- a '85 900 eliminator was made in lincoln nebraska and i got it cheap- i wouldn't own anything else
The wheels alone are a 2000.00 upgrade, forward controls about 370.00, the list of options easily add up. The factory custom paint is nothing to sneeze at either when it comes to addtional price, and gee if you got it or want it...why not buy it if that's what you want.
Thats why I got a used Harley for 3.000 $ Re built the bike my self and only spent a low 600 $ on parts and I did the work my self with the help of good frends. The bike has 110 hp.. and under 4.000 pounds. Harley or not, with the way gas is going we will all be riding soon. stay well my frends see ya in the wind.
Sorry thats Under 400 pounds not 4.000 pounds , boy what was I Thinking..
I just bought a 2008 FXD and it was worth every penny. I've owned a 99' 883XLC and a 79' Honda Goldwing rat bike before that. I'd much rather customize the FXD myself than spend the extra 5 grand on an FXDWG. Let the people with bags of money buy the anniversary editions ;P
If you buy a Harley and want to do it right, do ample research...maybe pick one up used...
Ok it posted I thought Id have to register I woulda said fuck it. anyhow...I test rode some Harleys the other weekend. V-Rod, Neck snapping power awesome handling perfecting balancing and a Porsche engine a SMOOTH ass ride, pick one up used with low miles for roughly around 10k they have the shittiest resale...kinda strange looking but neat not TRADITIONAL cool nonetheless... Heritage Softail classic...Softails...I learned are THE MOST overrated IMO, though they are SMOOTH running (counterbalanced engine) they have poor handling and just dont have the balls of the DYNA, I rode a streetbob, beleive it or not...a SMOOTHER ride than the softail, and it felt like it wanted to do a wheelie (it would too), has just enough vibration chugging to let you know its a Harley not annoying!...great handling too...you can get a NEW Dyna Super Glide Custom forrrrr 12999, on par with a big (and ugly) jap bike of equal size. Road King...I acutally LIKED as well...handled like a slightly larger Dyna YET didnt seem as smooth over the bumps (air shock adjustment?) seemed to vibrate alot at stops shaking my hands and arms but I thought it was kinda cool added some character. way overpriced (20k out hte door?) *does jerk off motion*.... for the MONEY.... stick a windshield and bags on a Dyna you have a bike ready for anything. and sportsters? sportsters are top heavy shitheaps that should burn in hell where they belong, Road King is MUCH easier to ride than a Sporty =P my 2 cents.
I agree with dave, Sportys are top heavy. But I would not go as to say shitheaps or that the bike should burn in hell..It is the top selling bike for Harley...But if you lower the seat and the frame plus hot rod the bike up to 110 HP the ride will kick the shit out of the rider,and take the rider strate to hell in no time flat. YOU BETTER HOLD ON. OR KISS YOUR ASS GOOD BUY..Now if your going across the USA the Road King is your best bet..Ride safe have fun.E.
I love motorcycles. I love riding motorcycles. I recently bought a new bike. It has been years since I've ridden regularly. I looked at Harley's, Hondas, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki. I was on a budget. I could have gotten any bike I wanted under 20K but again I was on a budget. I bought a 2007 Honda VT750DC. For $5000.00 plus dealer add ons I got a good riding, good looking cruiser within my budget. Sure I would love a $15,000 to $20,000 HD but I have other priorities in life, my kids. And in all honesty what I saw at the HD dealerships was grossly overpriced when compared to bikes at some of the other dealerships I visited. I like the look and feel of the Shadow Spirit but the Suzuki Boulevard C-50 is also an excellent value. I have nothing against HD, it is an American classic. My problem is with the snobby HD riders who think that HD is the ONLY real bike.
My Honda TTX 1300R is made in Ohio by union workers. $10,000 less than a fat boy.
VTX sorry. Typo....
Let's ride and just enjoy the wind. Who cares what you ride as long as you enjoy it. I ride a rocker, and love it.
Been in/on/around Harleys since the early 70's, you buy them for the rumble, look and feel of nostalgia, not performance; most stock bikes will out perform, give more ride comfort, better handling, be more reliable and cost significantly less than a Harley. With Harley, you have to love the mistique and live on memory lane.
I say ride what you want and enjoy the ride.
If you don't like the price of a Harley, don't buy one. This is a capitalistic economy and corporations are supposed to make money. If you want to moan about "overpriced" check out Exxon's $46 billion profit last year. Cost has nothing to do with the price on the showroom floor - it's all about marketing and supply and demand.
I trade my last Electra Glide in on my son so that I could get custody of him. For years, I tried to trade HIM in on a Harley, but the dealers wouldn't take him. Now that he is grown and stable, I can head back to the dealer with cash in my pocket to buy MY dream bike.......
............. and I can assure you that it will not be a Japanese copy of a Harley Davidson.
I ride late 70's early 80's superbikes (i have a 79' cbx, a 77' cb750f supersport, a kz1000elr, and a 1980 kz1300), because the Japs do not make a motorcycle that is either not a copy of a Harley, or you have to be hunched over like a monkey f@#$%& a football! I paid 800$ for my CB750f supersport in 1984, and have been riding it ever since, with only regular maintenance. There are a ton of guys like me who long to go fast and sit up straight, but Honda is only teasing everyone with the concept CB1100F. They jusy don't "get" it. So, I am in the process of purchasing the HD XR1200r, since now, it seems THEY "get" it!
I am also an extremely nostalgic rider of primarily Golden Age bikes, and also agree that the concept CB1100F or R for that matter will go nowhere fast. What we need now is for Honda to stop screwing around making dancing robots and apply some of that high tech to motorcycles. There is absolutely no reason why Honda can't make the same quantum leap in tech now over its competitors that it did with the CB750! How about an emission free two up tourer that sells for under $5000? They have the R&D, they have the resources, and we KNOW that they have the expertise and imagination. Come on Honda! Blow us away like we know you can!
I just loved your article on this subject, Hal! Harleys are pricey when you compare them to the big pond of other bikes. But there are several other brands that are getting closer with their pricetags, as they find the customer will pay big numbers for more of their products. As I live in Norway, our tax system is heavy on vehicles of every kind, so we are used to paying big bucks for our rides. One example from this years catalog: A 2009 Roadking Classic costs $42.000. I'm not sure how much the bike would leave a dealer for in the USA, but I suspect a number far from this. Harley has been the most sold brand for years in Norway. Owning mc's in Norway is just not cheap.
Our climate conditions give us a short riding season, ranging from at best, 3 months above the Arctic Circle, to 6 months in the southern part.
It's not like we posses shitloads of money to spend on motorcycles or cars. We need cars for our everyday life, motorcycles are optional. It's a decision of which direction one's life should have that each individual takes, meaning one must be sacrificing something else for being able to put a piece of Milwaukee produce between ones legs and ride it with pride.
A couple of lines about me: I'm 43 years, been riding motorcycles for almost 20 years, thru the 6 months season I ride about 15.000 miles, I have owned different bikes like Fj1200, Honda Goldwing 1100 Aspencade, Panheads, shovels, sportsters. I have built engines, two choppers and everything else on a bike. My current ride thru the last 5 seasons is a '97 FLHRI, which is just fantastic.
Yikes! $42,000 for an FLHRC! I thought it was pricy around here! I live above the 50th parallel so I'm also well aware of how mercilessly short the riding season can be, especially when I compare it to the times I lived in California, Florida, Australia, the Caribbean, the Med... sigh... Thanks for your comment, and enjoy the FLHRI!
i sooo agree with the guy who started this blog or whatever u call it. my favorite bikes are exactly what he likes except i replace the yamaha with a suszuki. i own a 1000cc sportster. but have own hondas and suszkis. cant beat a honda but i got to fit in so i own a harley (THE OLD ONE) but i gets so tired of working on haleys.
harley will never outrun the rice burners and could never last as long as a rice burner they are made sooo well. but i guess ill stick with my harley to fit in and be agravated.
Thanks! My 1 litre Sporty is one of my favorite bikes out of the many I've owned! :)
In the Harley line the Dyna is a great bike. I presently ride an 1100 V-Star with alot of performance goodies. It's a great bike but when I sell or trade I will go to a Dyna. THe Yamahas just do not bring any money at all on re-sale.
The various motorcycle "blue books" strongly disagree with you. Harleys do have higher resales values, but not that much greater percentage than comparable Japanese motorcycles.
Harley's are the bomb. It's the dealers who are the crooks.
words of truth from someone who sold them for 32 yrs.
coming clean.Check the stock. sold mine.
kmmce: Thanks.
ronan: This Hub deals with MSRP set by the factory. It has nothing to do with dealers.
I have been very close to purchasing a new HD Road King for some time now. Sometimes I go into the dealership thinking this is going to be that day. What happens? When I sit on the RoadKing its ergonomics are terrible and do not even come close to fitting my body. You might say, well just change the ride height, the bars, the seat, what ever it takes to make it fit. True. But for 20,000 dollars out the door I think HD should tailor fit the damn thing to fit me. Give me a break, do you realize for 20,000 you would be buying something that does not even FIT? Would you pay for a premium suit in the wrong size? For their prices (and yes I think they are criminally overpriced) they should be rolling out the red carpet. Not to mention the bike would be loads safer if it were tailored to the operator!
I don't think its possible for any motorcycle to fit both a 4'10" teenage girl and Shaq equally well, and as for adjustability, by all means motorcycles of all brands have a lot to learn. Saddles should be able to slide back and forth, adjust for height, etc. just like car seats, and handlebars and controls should also be adjustable like car steering wheels.
I've been reading this thread and I'm really intrested in eric's $3k sportster that makes 110 horsepower. Hard to believe....
Eric's a lunatic. I've heard rabid dogs make more sense than him.
Hal was talking about fit. I am 6'3" and I drive a 98
Royal Star. A Harley just don't feel right after siting
on that. Harley does make a kit to relocate the floorboards
for tall people. They also make a kit for a hydraulic clutch
which is factory on the Royal Star.
Thank God, I was set free from the Harley Cult years ago.
I'm riding British and Japanese motorcycles again like I used to.
S Berg: I love the Royal Star but the Yammy that gets my blood pumping is the Road / Wild Star. Of course they decided to dump it a couple of years back. DUMB!
Paoli: Most of my bikes have been Japanese with a few European, but Harley does have its charm!
Had a '78 1/2 FX SuperGlide for nearly 20 years ... made when AMF owned HD ... but I maintained it and NEVER had a problem, made a few modifications, and it was a great bike, simply great ... have also had Honda 750s, but now have a C90T Suzuki and love it, lots of torque, comfortable and solid as could be ... I simply like bikes and biking, but couldn't afford to get a Road King or other HD bagger (I'll never again own a non-windshield bike), so for about $10k less I've got a 1500cc twin that has proven to be a very good bike.
Dang, dude, My FLH was AMF, purchased new from the dealer, and it could never run more than a couple of hours without vapor locking and stalling out... requiring at least half an hour by the side of the road. Not exactly fond memories of the bowling conglomerate messing around with HD.
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Jake says:
2 years ago
The pricing scheme is certainly a rip off, but I thing Harley is just being Opportunistic, even if it might be to their own detriment in the long run. MAYBE bike riders will wise up and stop paying rediculously over-priced rates - MAYBE! As for the production cost, IF the additional parts are truely unique parts, then the cost of new molds and tooling to produce the unique parts must be recouped in the cost of a "limited run" bike. That still doesn't justify the price in the long run.
Personally, I've only been riding a couple years, but a bike is a bike for the most part as far as looks go. ANY bike can have crome and a nice shiny paint job. I'll spend my money on a nimble handling bike with good power and acceleration, a comfortable ride, and low maintenance requirements. My time is too limited to spend tinkering on my bike all the time.