Hell is Not Punishment; it's Insanity
68Punishment is for correction or protection. Anything else is purposeless.
It is popularly believed that God allows people to die and go to hell if they choose not to obey Him. In this way, Hell is defined as eternal punishment. It dawned on me recently, when I heard someone preaching this concept, that the term "eternal punishment" is somewhat of an oxymoron. Let me explain -
I worked in a maximum-security State Prison for three years, then I worked a while on the administrative side of corrections before moving on to other things. There is a reason the State department that manages the housing of sentenced offenders is called CORRECTIONS. That reason is that punishment is designed to CORRECT a misdeed so that it does not occur again. Punishment has a purpose. Our constitution provides that any punishment that is unsuitable for the purpose of criminal justice cannot take place because it is CRUEL AND UNUSUAL.
There are two main purposes for criminal punishment - elimination and prevention. For crimes commited that are beyond a certain degree of heinousness like first degree murder, the purpose of punishment is mostly elimination. The logic behind this is that a person with the inclination to plan and carry out a deliberate murder is not a person who can be trusted living in society. Our justice system eliminates that person. Prevention is also a purpose in this crime, as it is in all criminal sentencing. If people know that they will spend a lifetime in prison for murdering someone, they will be much less likely to do it.
That is the grown-up world. The same goes for children under the care of parents. When a child acts up, a parent punishes the child to accomplish a purpose - either to prevent further misconduct, or to eliminate it all together for the child's own safety.
Any punishment by a parent that does not fulfill a purpose is not punishment; It is abuse. An example of this would be a father spanking his child because the child made him angry. Or a mother shouting at her baby because the baby will not stop crying. These actions do nothing but ease the frustrations of the parents; they do not serve any purpose for the child.
So lets look at Hell as eternal punishment. What does it accomplish? Well, it eliminates people - that's certain. Also, it scares a lot of people into behaving a ceratain way. Sure, those are purposes, but they arent the reasons that people say Hell exists. That's because those reasons would make God out to be something much less that they claim Him to be. It would mean that God is the one who sends people to Hell, and not the people themselves. If God has a purpose behind punishing people, then the nature of the punishment would be His responsibility. Popular belief is that God has nothing to do with Hell, and it is not His responsibility that Hell exists and that people go there. But if you're going to call it eternal punishment, there is no other way to think of it than that God put it in place for a PURPOSE.
A punishment has to have a punnisher. Prisons are built by the justice system. They didn't just materialize out of thin air. And criminals don't just accidentally wind up living in them without the legal system forcing them to.
Prisons, brobation, fines, and community service are Man's best attempt at successful punishment. Are we to think that God Almighty can't do better than us? Can He not accomplish the purpose of purification without the use of the same meager tools that we people use? Are we to thing that He strikes out at us like an abusive parent with no purpose other than self-satisfaction? Are we to think that Man's worst unreasonable cruelty is like a walk in the park compared to God's cruelty? I think not.
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allshookup: I must admit, I do not have any at this time. I am in the precess of researching it. What I can tell you, though is that any instnace in the Bible that apparently talks about a place called Hell is not what it seems. There is a lot of symbolism in scripture about death, suffering, spiritual death, and things like that. I believe that the Hell that is popularly believed in is an idea that would have been completely foreign to the writers of the New and Old Testaments. So a scripture saying that Hell does not exist is not likely to be found. The best I can do is expose the true meanings of the locations which have been interpreted as speaking about Hell as an actual place.
Look around on these hubs. I've provided so much proof that such a place does not exist that I find it incredible that people would try to argue with me. Take a look. You'll find so much proof that people like allshook up there won't be able to shake anyting.
Hell believers may only shake their fist in protest to the wonderful truths of God, because they despise the word of God.
Dan: really? I would love to read up about it. Please direct me to this information. I would greatly appreaciate it.
There are many web pages that teach the truth of universal salvation. But the best one (scripturally) that I know of is bible-truths.com. There is a wealth of information there. I started by reading "Exposing Those Who Contradict", an article written by Ray Smith to the late Dr. Kennedy and The mega church Pastor Hagee. I then read Ray's entire Lake of Fire series. You will have to read it about three times before the deep scriptural truths really speak to you. There are many other articles, all by Ray Smith. If it is God's purpose for you to see the truth in them, now, you will.
For some shorter commentary, check out these hubs to see what I had to say to these hell proponents:
Where is Hell -Sir Dent
Is Hell Evil-viralprospector
Hell is Real and Too Late-commentonthis7
In addition, check out: Does A Burning Hell Really Exist or is it Just a Scare Tactic By Fundamentalist Christians-Thinkaboutit77
Why I believe the Genesis Gap Teaching is Scripturally Backed-JimLow.
Remember, those are just hubs where I futilly contradicted every justification for their belief in such a place as hell. The real info is at bible-truths.com. Best wishes.
Thanks Dan. I'll check that stuff out. I'm hoping to learn more about the original context of the biblical terms that so many people misinterpret as meaning an actual place of eternal damnation. I've found some already. I think people like you and me should team up against this evil that is so dominant in today's Christian culture. Something needs to be done about it.
Hell is an English version of the Hebrew word Sheol, it signifies an abode for the departed spirits and corresponds to the Greek Hades, in common speech it generally denotes the place of torment for the wicked, although it has been often held by both Christian and Jewish faiths that hades (broadly the place of all departed spirits) consists of two parts, paradise and gehenna, one the abode of the rightous and theother of disobediant. Gehenna or "Gehenna of fire," is the greek equivilent of the "Valley of Hinnom," a deep glen of Jerusalem where the idoalatrous Jews offered their children to Moloch. It was afterwards used as a place for burning the refuse of the city and in that way became symbolical of the place of torment. Expressions of "hell-fire" are probably due to the impression produced on the men's minds by the sight of this ceaseless burning, and are figurative of the torment of those who willfully disobey God.
onusonus: nice. thank you.
You are welcome, I would like to further add that there is a difinitive difference between the punishment of the Devil and his angels and the punishment for that which is called sin commited by the human race, thus defined for some will have an end when all of the captive spirits have paid the price of their sins and enter into a degree of glory after their resurection. Statements of everlasting Hell must be interperted in their proper context.
What you'll find, is Sheol means unseen and was translated hell 31 times, grave 31 times and pit about 5 times. These improper translations were all in an attempt to protect the false doctrine of hell. Actually, hell in the old English meant to cover (as in helmet?). The word probably took on a different meaning as the word gay did in modern English. There is know word in ancient Hebrew and Greek for eternal or forever. Aion and aionios always meant for a time, as the English eon. There is much about aionios judgment in scripture but hell is never used in association with it. The Lake of Fire is God's purification. It's all symbolic. This eternal torment doctrine is the most vile thought ever invented. By the way, The Valley of Hinnom is no longer burning so it most definatelly does not symbolize eternal anything. bible-truths.com, my friend.
Very well written!
I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian church that preached an eternal hell for those who did not accept Christ as their savior and even though I was troubled by such a belief I did not really begin to question that idea until this past summer. I researched Christian universalism and the arguments for and against hell and the arguments against just make more sense.
I also find the hell theory to be counter productive to the central message of Christianity.
I agree with theominai observations. There is more than one interpretation of the Bible in the world and sadly fundamentalists Christians fail to take into consideration a majority of Christians, Catholics, do not fall in line with all their interpretations of the Bible. Does this mean they are not Christian? Well no, I believe only the individual can decide if he or she is a Christian.
Trust me, most "christians" haven't got a clue as to what is scripture.
I love the passage in Luke where Jesus says that God reveals His truths to infants but the wise and intelligent don't understand. (something to that effect, I'm tired)
But I look at that and it is clear what He is saying. He's giving us a way to determine the truth from the BS. With all the variations in translation, and the endless concocted false doctrines, all we have to do is think; "would this make sense to an infant?" That takes care of a lot of BS - Hell being the cheif. He's telling us that the real truths of life and death and the human soul are very very easy to see. In fact, they are so easy to see, you'll miss them completely as soon as you start to analyze things.
It's nice to communicate with someone with some common sence on this matter. I will say that the truths of God must be searched out to learn what they mean. However, it takes the spirit of God to grant one the ability to see these truths. There is nothing simple about it. The word of God is spirit. But you are right. A child should be able to see how wrong the churches are on several matters. Especially the rotten doctrine of some fabled hell. A child should see that this is ridiculous.
"the word of God is spirit"
I love that. I read that in your comment and then later I read it in the book of John. Cool.
Yes it is always nice to meet someone with a similar perception of things. Nice to meet you.
you are doing so well, I am so proud of you my child, crush those christians, crush them into powder, drive them out , they are a threat to our mission.
I try to crush heresy.
godofthisworld: Jesus is the savior of the world. Satan lost before he even began. You just couldn't keep yourself away could you? The truth has a way of doing that to a person.
Luke 8:18"So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him."
Dan: The truth of God always prevails. Keep up the good fight. I'm with you.
Yo, satan imposter. Disappear. Sorry, no sympathy here. You're really starting to piss me off.
tkeeley: did you say you were once possessed? I'd like toknow more about that if you woudn't mind telling.
Also, in case I haven't said it enough already, godofthisworld is my dad, secondsamuel. It is not me. (not that you thought it was)
I never thought it was you, and I don't care who it is. Whatever is attempting to be accomplished, it's not funny in the least. I'll have every atheist thinking it's hilarious til I'm blue in the face, mostly because they don't believe in supernatural powers, but I've experienced them, as has my wife, and other hubbers have been in similar plights.
My experience with possession (or oppression, whichever it is I don't know for sure to this day) was a once-in-alifetime ordeal. It's sparked by substance abuse followed by demobilisation of the "host" which then allows anything to enter the weakened soul. I was a prime host at the time, though it still scares me stiff and I utterly regret it.
These people who so quickly toss around the name of Lucifer like it's a toy or something are going to be in for a shiteload of surprises sooner or later.
I think, Maestro, we still disagree on hell (at least to some degree). Even so, the experiences I have ave convinced me more so that it exists more than it doesn't. I'm not trying to convince anyone, but frankly who are we to say that we have the answers, and I'm certainly not claiming them. I leave that up to God and others' souls before Him. If people choose to disregard things like the supernatural, it's not my duty to bring it to the forefront, but I do want to make a small case that demons are real. Satan is real...and this "joke" is putrid and disgusting. If a Christian is pulling the strings, shame on them. If an atheist is pulling te strings, I'd expect as much insensitivity towards something they just don't believe in.
If all views are valid, mine deserve equal treatment, and whether this whole spiel is intended to be a pain in the ass or not, it's wrong in my eyes. So there, relativism, suck that.
What does relativism have to do with it? I'm sure it does, but I'm just not that knowledgable about it. I'm curious as to what you mean.
As for Hell, I do believe it exists; I just don't believe the popular depiction of Hell is acurate. I too have experienced a great deal of Satanic and demonic oppression, and possibly possession. I could write an entire hub about it (maybe I will, hmmmm...). I think where you and I disagree is in our definitions of Hell. I don't believe Hell is a place where people go when they die. I believe it is experienced right here in this life. I also believe that about Heaven.
You might have something with your definition, but like I said I neither converted nor do I evangelise based on anything from hell. I don't even mention it, really. I mention JEsus Christ loves people and that we were designed to love Him back. Hell is a bonus...or reverse that, my mind isshot.
So I found out today my car needs a new engine and I don't have the 4000 do fix that and the clutch, but it's immensley cheaper than a new car ebcause the engine woul dbe in warranty and all the new stuff I bought for my car would be retained on it. It's really the only option I have, prayers are what I need. I basically need provision of God and without it I can't get thru this.
I'll send some out. Keep a good attitude if you can. God uses crap like this to grow you (probably the last thing you want to hear right now - sorry).
But that is so strange because the same thing happened to me today. I found out that my car needs repairs that cost way more than I can afford. It looks like I'm going to lose the car. That sucks. I like that car.
So, we're in it together man.
Losing the car isn't really an option though...If I do then we're in the hole about 5000 bucks worth of stuff we put into it as far as repairs are concerned. Oh well, God is in control....
He certainly is. I was just reading in Luke where Jesus is saying that unless a person is ready to give up all their possessions, they are not prepared to enter the Kingdom of God. Some would read this as a warning. I don't think that is how it was intended. To me, it means that the pain of loss is a sign of God's work in our lives. We cannot receive the fullness of God's gift of life if we are still drawing satisfaction from material things. The gate to salvation is narrow. I will submit to you that this loss of yours is a gift in disguise.
Not that you've lost it, though. But if you do...
I've lost much though. I understand the powers of materialism...heck I live in america for crying out loud! I know what it is to ave nothings, and I feel God using that nothing to make me something. Cheesy, possibly, but it works ;)
If you've lost much, then, considering other things I've learned about you, I beleive you are one of His Chosen. I am one too, and He has brought me through unspeakable pain and suffering. He used that stuff to build me into something, and He is still at work. I hear what you are saying, and I don't think it's cheesy at all. You seem to be in a dark place. Man, I know dark. I can tell you it is for a purpose, and God's plans do not get derailed. You'll make it to your destination for sure.
I wouldn't say my losses are so bad I'd be suicidal, but there were times when I was, and it wasn't just a self pity moment either. It's been rough and I'm a very introsepctive individual, I hardly ever express outwardly what I truly feel. Most people think--or thought--I was being 'dramatic' but instead there really was a whole lot more going on than seen. It's always that way with me, even my wife doesn't connect with everything I feel, so I don't hold it against everyone. I do expect people to be compassionate on my shortcomings though. I've heard the smarter you are the harder it is to live because you know solutions to problems but cannot execute them when they're out of your hands. I think I had to learn that the hard way.
On topic, a friend once told me "this is the closest to hell you'll ever be."
That statement still hits home months later.
I agree. I actually think the troubles you are going through, and have gone through, are what hell and judgment, as found in the Bible, really are.
assuming that maestrowhit is genuine in his belief that hell and heaven are actually right here on planet earth, and the two pheudo entities do not exist anywhere else (and he makes a damn good point of that in his hub), then we can absolutly assume that t. keeley is guilty of some big time sinning. perhaps he should employ some of those "supernatural" powers to repair his car.
Hey, Hell is NOT the "eternal damnation" Look in Revelations, it says "the lake of fire" not Hell. The lake of fire is the final punishment for those who CHOSE to reject God and Jesus Christ and the free salvation he offers. If you never hear the truth I believe you wont be punished. BUT once you hear it...YOU become responsible.
Besides, who cares if there is or is not a Hell. God said there would be Eternal Punishment, I choose to follow what he asks of me and believe in the words of Christ.
John 3:16- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him(Christ, the Son) shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
Thats all that matters. That we believe.
Bear, there was no word for eternal in the days of the bible's writing. The term was aion(s) and aionios. It's pretty easy to determine that aion is only for a period of time. Otherwise they would have never used a plural form of it. This shouldn't even be questioned, but is repeatedly denied by blind christiandom
That is some incredibly good logic. Painfully obvious but never thought about it. I too agree, God is much grander than the petty behaviours some would inspire us to believe.
For any of us to define God is pretty arrogant don't you think. But obvious bits of logic like that are helpful.
So then if "eternal" is a wrong interpritation of 'aion' from which we get the word 'eon' which means "an age or great span of time" then Eternal(as translated) doesn't mean forever. But it doesn't matter...there is still a lake of fire...and whether some one had to spend a day or a week or a thousand years there...it would still suck. And then it would agree with your earlier statement about punishment being a time of correction. And not lasting forever.
Bear: yes, God purifies us with a clensing fire that lasts for a time. Growth is a painful process. Read my hub about being born again. We are born into darkness, and through Christ we pass into the light. Through this painful process, God burns out all of our sins and impurities.
shunshifu: thanks for the comment. Jesus wasn't shy to define God. As a follower of Christ, I hope to some day be as one with God as He was. But for now, you're right, I would be presumptuous to define God beyond my current knowledge of Him.
Dude, anyone not bound by a random book that only carves out a tiny space of a few thousand years in the 50 or 60 thousand years of modern human history (the animal that we are) and that only describes the history of a tiny minority of the worlds populace in geography or time will tell you that the description of hell, as contrasted with the description of "heaven" clearly makes for the place of Hell as being far more desirable than Heaven. Think about it: Hell... a huge bonfire party where the sinners (people who drink, smoke, and like sex) go as opposed to "Heaven" where the stodgy judgemental people who never have any fun that isn't lame go to spend enternity in white robes and listening to harp music. Dude, seriously... heaven sounds like hell to me.
Shades: I'd have to agree with you, if we're talking about the most commonly-believed Christian concept of Heaven and Hell. According to that, yes, I think I would rather go to Hell than Heaven. But That's not the Heaven and Hell that I'm talking about. I'm talking (not in my hub; in my comments) about the REAL ones, which are right here in this life - not in an eternal afterlife.
Actually, the bible never defines heaven as a place, but I high realm of thought. When man has tried to elevate himself to heaven God has knocked him back down to Earth. The Lucifer hoax comes from one of these examples in the OT.
No, He doesent need to find proof that there is no hell,You need to find proof that there IS.Like the famous analogy of the religious point of view.Normal Person"I Have A Baseball ""Prove it"*Takes Out Baseball*Religious Nutjob"I have a Baseball! ""Prove it""YOU CCANT PROVE I DONT HAVE A BASEBALL! "
ha ha good one Miickey.
Neither heaven or hell exists somewhere in the deep blue yonder. Heaven and hell exist side by side here on earth. We have the knowledge of good and evil. We choose where we are born.
Good article. Does Hell produce compassion or insanity?
The more passionate a Christian is about saving people from Hell, the more insane and mean they look and behave. They look demonic and Satanic! The more passionate a Christian is about loving people past their sins, the more they look and behave like Jesus Christ did. Many Christians are beginning to discover the teaching of Hell was NOT a part of the original “Good news;” that it was injected into the church primarily in the fourth century by men like Augustine and Constantine bringing on the proverbial Dark Ages. It is time to leave the darkness and come into His marvelous light. Gary Amirault
allshookup says:
14 months ago
What Scripture do you have to back up your theory that there is no hell?