Homeschool vs. Public School vs. Private School
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One of the toughest decisions that you're going to face as a parent is that you're going to have to decide where to send your kids to school. For some parents the choice is easy because the options are limited by funds and availability of a parent's time. Those kids just have to go to the local public school, no doubt about it. However, most parents at least consider alternative options like private school and homeschooling. And even parents looking at public schools often have options such as charter schools and magnet schools. It's a tough call because there are pros and cons to each option.
Here's a closer look at what the benefits and drawbacks are of different types of schooling for children:
Public School Pros and Cons
The public school is the most obvious first choice for many families but it's also one that can cause them a lot of concerns.
Commonly cited benefits of the public school choice include:
- Convenience. Proximity to home, availability of school bus transportation and other facts about public school make this an easy one on a daily basis.
- Cost. It's free so you don't have to think about pay for your kid's education.
- It's the norm. Kids will basically fit in with society after going through standard schooling.
- Diversity. Kids will get to meet all kinds of different people and will learn tolerance (eventually) for everyone.
Commonly cited drawbacks of the public school choice include:
- Low quality of education. Many people feel that public schools gear education to the lowest common denominator in the school which means that smart kids lose out.
- Peer problems. Kids may argue with peers or pick up bad habits in public schools where diversity is common.
- Design of education. The public school has a curriculum that doesn't really allow for individuality or input from the parent. Your kid will learn what the school says he will learn.
Private School Pros and Cons
The private school choice diminishes some of the problems associated with the traditional public school but will bring up its own issues.
Commonly cited benefits of the private school choice include:
- Higher quality of education. These classes are generally geared towards college-bound kids.
- Future opportunities. Private schools look good on resumes and open doors. Kids from private school tend to stick together into adulthood and may help each other out with careers in the future.
- Close community. This close community extends to parents and teachers and creates a situation in which there are a lot of people looking out for your kid.
- Less diversity. Some parents prefer that their kids "stick to their own" so to speak.
Commonly cited drawbacks of the public school choice include:
- Cost. It's not going to be free to go here and you'll have to invest money in different activities throughout the year.
- Time-intensive. Parents are typically expected to be involved in volunteer efforts with the school which can take time.
- Limited experiences. The lack of diversity that is often encountered in public schools is a drawback when kids have to deal with a more diverse world.
Homeschooling Pros and Cons
Many parents find that they can avoid all of the problems of public and private school with homeschooling but it isn't perfect either.
Commonly cited benefits of homeschooling include:
- Control over what your child learns. You design the curriculum and it can be focused on the specific educational needs and level of your child.
- Keeps the family closer. You do more together and this means that you've got a bond that isn't as easy to achieve when your child is away at school all day.
- Freedom and flexibility. You can set a school schedule that suits your family, travel together when it's best for all of you and otherwise enjoy more flexibility in life together,
Commonly cited drawbacks of homeschooling include:
- Very time-intensive. You'll need to be your child's full-time teacher in addition to being a parent.
- Difficult. It's not easy to teach a kid everything that he or she needs to know.
- Isolation. The child and the rest of the family may feel isolated from a larger social group.
- Limits opportunities. Homeschooled kids can go to college but it's not as easy as when you've got standard transcripts from a more traditional school.
- Problems separating school and home. In terms of both time and discipline in the home, boundaries get blurred.
Alternative School Options
Some parents find that they can explore other options that don't quite fit any of these molds. Some of these options include:
- Charter schools. These are small non-profit schools where kids get the same basic education that they would at a public school and there's no cost to attend. However, the classes are smaller so there can be more parent involvement and more individual attention for the student.
- Magnet schools. These are public schools that specialize in a particular area of study. There are magnet schools for technology, science, math, fine arts and even specialty schools like aviation studies. These are good for people who need a basic education but who are interested in niche areas; these classes often have a higher quality of education.
- Private tutor. People who like the idea of homeschooling but don't have the time to do it themselves may find that they would like to pay someone to tutor the child in the home setting.
- Mixture of options. Some kids do best when they are able to combine different options to complete their education. For example, a high school student may attend traditional classes for half the day but then go to a magnet program or homeschool classes in the afternoon.
Thoughts on Choosing a Type of School
In order to choose the right type of school, you need to realistically weigh all of the options open to you. Consider the cost of schooling, the time involvement required by parents, the social pros and cons for your child and the needs of your whole family. Most importantly, be aware that you may make the wrong choice. Instead of fretting about it, be open to paying attention to the cues you receive from your kids over time and be willing to try other options if the first one you try isn't working right.
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- Public vs. private: Which is right for your child? - ParentCenter
- Private vs. Public Schools: What's the Difference? - Ohio ...
- Public vs. Private Education « Parent’s Eye View
- Public Schools vs. Home School
- Public School Vs Homeschool Socialization - Associated Content
- Teen Scene Magazine - Reality: Homeschool vs. Public School
- Public School vs Home School - Education Bug
- What Should Be The Right School For A Child?
- Learning Differences, Your Child and School
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Thanks for answering my request.
homeschooling sucks no friends nobody to talk I wouldnt bring that upon anybody
I disagree, Martin. I was homeschooled, and although it was a bit of a culture shock when I went to the local community college, it was very good for me. I'm a 20-year-old with a Bachelor of Arts degree from a well-known private college. Homeschooling is a great way to bring a family closer together, but as stated, you have to make sure your kids (and you) are getting the social interaction they need. I suggest ballet lessons, community theater, or sports teams.
We home-school our children because of evolution in the schools. We have a bible based curriculum. We teach creation. Our children are very social.
In response to Jesus_saves: I think that is a horrible reason. If you really cared about your child's development, you would subject to both sides of the issue and let them choose for themselves what THEY want to believe. That and I'm sure they are very social. But, do you monitor the social interactions they have? If so, that is wrong, as well. Again, if you truly cared for them, you would subject them to different people, even if they are "sinners" or whatever you want to call them. They need to learn how to form THEIR OWN OPINIONS on people, not based on yours, in order to become a healthy THINKING adult. Your child is not you OR the realization of your beliefs. They are a human being and an individual and should be treated as such.
In response to metro16: I respectfully disagree. As parents, we must teach our children right from wrong, whether we're religious or not. It is our responsibility to show our children, by our own example, how to make good choices, whether it be in the friends we choose or the path we choose. Sending a five-year-old to public school to form THIER OWN OPINIONS is irresponsible. What kindergartener will make the best decision every time? I happen to have experience in public, private, and homeschool, and may know a bit more about the pros and cons than many. Implying to Jesus_saves that they don't truly care for their children because they homeschool is rude, false, and not your place.
This is a very important and informative hub. Keep up the good work. Thanks for the article
This was a very interesting hub. I do feel like public schools get a bad rap. I went to one and go to a public university. When I was in school I had several amazing teachers who challenged me to think and really prepared me for college. I wouldn't trade what I learned from those teachers for any other education.
Thanks for this hub! I am getting married to a man who has two children and both he and his ex-wife live in areas where the public schools are not up to even state standards. So we have been debating what to do among us for what will be best for the kids.
Thank you so much for the well written hub, Kathryn. I am weighing these options myself right now as I have a daughter who is three and will be starting preschool in 2010. There is so much to consider! I've been thinking about making a table with each schooling option listed and then it's pros and cons. And you already did! Wow. I will be sending this on to my husband so we can continue to discuss what's best for our family. Thank you for a well researched and balanced look at today's schooling options.
Great article. I was homeschooled and feel that there were many benefits. Our family was active in a homeschool group (and church) where we went on field trips that were both educational and fun. For those that do choose to homeschool, please make sure you give your child a well-rounded education and don't leave out things that you think they won't need. For instance, I knew families that only taught their kids English and Math on the basis that they didn't think their kids needed science and history and geography. Leaving those things out will cripple a child for his whole life.
Great clear hub. reading some of the comments though I think I should write up a hub on diversity and difference and it's importance in educating children. It is very disrespectful and irressponsible for any educator, including parents who home school their children to ignore that the world is diverse and they will come across difference whether you like it or not. Not educating children about diversity teaches them that their is only one way that is 'right' and every other way is beneath that. Hello that's what western countries have been fighting civil wars, and civil debates for centuries and it seems some people still don't get the point. Well I went off the topic sorry, great hub I don't agree with some of the comments thought ^^. "It's not wrong it's different", a great lecturuer once told me that and others should recognise that, including children.
I think they all have their benefits and disadvantages, but a big part of any of them is the support of the parents. One point to mention is that some colleges will look down on home schooling so it is important to make sure that your childrens do well on the SAT. However, I believe that community college is actually a good stepping stone and usually doesn't require them.
Good Hub! As a homeschooling mom, though, I will say that homeschooling is neither difficult nor isolating. Sometimes we run into the problem of too MUCH socialization... so many activities to choose from and so little time. :) I'm so glad that in our family, school and home are not two entities... we just consider them both real life.
Thank You
As a homeschool mom (who never intended to be one before I had a child), I have to disagree with all your cons on homeschooling. It's not difficult or time-intensive. We get a lot more done in a much shorter time period than the public school can do with 25-30 kids of varying abilities.
It doesn't limit opportunities at all. In fact, many of the top colleges are recruiting homeschooled kids now because of their ability to work independently, manage their time well, etc. Homeschooled kids, on average, score higher on tests than public schooled kids as well.
It's not isolating at all. This year we had to cut back on our activities in order to make sure we got our schooling done. There's a homeschool saying: "Why do they call it homeschooling if we're never home?".
As for boundaries, why should there be? Learning takes place 24/7. Just because we're not sitting at the table with a workbook doesn't mean we're not learning. Whether we're baking, gardening, playing, etc, we're learning.
Homeschooling is growing in popularity. In my county alone there are about 2,000 homeschooled kids. We're members of several groups and always have stuff to do. We even opened our own enrichment center to offer classes that we're not able to do at home, like Spanish, art, yoga, ballet, Tae Kwon Do, and more.
Many local business give us educator discounts, as well as giving us awesome group rates to get us in the door when the building would normally be empty due to kids being in school.
Homeschooling has been an awesome experience for us. I can tailor my son's education to his needs. He'll never be pigeon-holed or forced to learn someting in a way that doesn't work for him. If he's doing better in a certain subject, we can move ahead. If he needs more time to master something else, we can take as long as we need. I feel very lucky to be able to do this for and with my son.
Heather, you are doing a wonderful job and I applaud the support the community and other homeschoolers are giving each other. I have to disagree with some of your points - it IS difficult and time-intensive. You said yourself, "...learning is 24/7."
Some homeschooling parents in the U.S. have NoClue what they are getting into - they think if they spend enough money on 'homeschool materials' that they can fill in the blanks. You are more qualified than most, and you realize that every child is different, and you know how to make sure your child is not isolated or lacking in opportunities. I see many in the U.S. make the decision to homeschool and end up putting their children back in public school because they realize how unqualified for the job they are.
Good hub, good information. Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
Great hub but I'm still on the fence about homeschooling...
Maybe every state should have a homeschooling union or association and mothers can get together and homeschool as a group. It will create diversity, socialization, and still offer individual pace education.
One more thing.
I was born in London and the schooling there is more advanced than the public school system in Washington DC (I can't speak for the other states). I was pushed back a grade based on my "birthday". I was bored all the time and caused a lot of trouble in public schools. That was a downfall for me.
However, my mother made up for that and reinforced importance of learning (I'm a proud nerd thank you). I was in music lessons and spelling and science competitions outside of school. So there was a balance, thanks to the involvement of my parents.
I am glad I'm not homschooled. It's hectic in my home and I don't like it there and I don't agree with all of my mother's teachings. I was raised by my "village" which has strengthened me as well as broke me down but it's still a beautiful and needed mix to make me who I am.
I am in the performing arts. That cannot be homeschooled. I went to a performaing arts school that was not in my neighborhood and was free.
Yes, there's peer pressure but I have learned that it is actually worse as an adult moreso than a child. I didn't care what people thought when I was a kid. As a professional adult, my image is very important...
So, it really depends on what your geographical area has to offer. Don't be afraid of a public school. If it's that bad, then homeschool your child after school. I am for outside schooling, whether it be private, public, religious-based (I also went to Catholic school and hated it. I couldn't even draw Jessica Rabbit and I thought that was ridiculous).
It's truly up to you!
Public, Private and homeschools are not free. So some of you who keep saying that public schools are free. Please stop that because it is not true. We are being taxed up the rear end in order to support public education. All the money is not even going to the actual school and teachers but to the teachers unions guru's. The day we started homeschooling our children, was the day that the taxpayers stopped paying for my own children, because if they do not attend public school, taxpayers don't get the bill for our children. Public schools can't claim them. They can only claim the children that they have actively attending their public school.
Hi. As a homeschooling parent, I just would like to address two comments made here, about it. Isolation-first of all, I know not all homeschooled children are allowed and able to participate in a lot of things, but our kids are. They've been in team sports, music, gone to camp, done volunteer work, etc. They have friends in our neighborhood, at church, from camp, from work, the list goes on. So they are quite social. In fact, our kids are sought after to babysit for others, to do work someone knows needs to be done, because they are responsible as well.
Limiting opportunities. Many homeschooled children are accepted to major universities today. In fact, many colleges seek homeschooled kids because they know the level of learning in some cases, is higher than the public schooled children. So no, it's not that much of an issue today.
http://www.thehomescholar.com/blog/colleges-seek-i
I won't say it's always easy, and as you said, no way of educating our children is perfect, and we all have to do what's right for us. I just had to make those two comments. Thank you.
sasha corrodus-odom,
Just so you know, most states do have organized homeschool groups that parents can opt to join for support, if they choose to do so.
I would never accept home schooled children into my college because I think their level of learning is below par because I find most the parents are not as intelligent as they actually believe they are. Additionally, they are limited by their parents beliefs and abilities.
To the comment "Sending a 5 year old to public school to form his own opinions is irresponsible"...what???? They start school at 5, they continue to go and be exposed to all races, religions, beliefs and opinions. This makes them well rounded, intelligent, open minded individuals, oh god forbid!! Why would we want more of those instead of ignorant uninformed people? People who want to "Control" everything their children learn and are exposed to, want to make "mini-me" children that are just like them and will never develop real individuality because from birth their parents are telling them what they are, who they should be, how to think, what to think, what to do, and for you parents who say its not true...you're in denial. It is exactly what happens, and you will never know who they would have been if they have been able to develop their own person.
Moonchild60, sounds like you have turned into what you hate; that is arrogant, ignorant and, intolerant. If children in public schools are so well rounded; why is it that the school segregates them by age and the kids themselves segregate themselves even further by race, attire, class, sex, etc...? They are taught to be intolerant of religious people, when some educators ridicule religious beliefs. They are most especially now being taught only one theory-Evolution. When not all notable and credible scientists belief in the theory of evolution but actually belief either in some form of Creationism theory or both. I want my children to learn as much about science as they can. Learning just about the theory of evolution is not what I would consider well rounded. Not presenting a student with all sides is a great disservice to all mankind.
We are in a delima. We have two kids we have been homeschooling in a christian pace program. There is a 5 star rated public school very close to our home. They are in third and fourth grades. They have done well in home school. The main problem is my wife wants to put them in the public school because have two younger children in the house along with the two being home schooled. It has been very difficult on her and I have to work during the day. Does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts on this? Please let me know. We have less than two weeks to decide. Thank you.
I think you started off with a good idea; comparing the pros and cons of public, private and home-schooling and you make some good points. However, as I read through the list of pros and cons it seemed that the article really intended to discredit public schools. The statements contained words that made even the pros for public schools seem negative.
Wow - a great read and definitely food for thought, whether you have school age children or not. Also whether you agree or not, as some obviously didn't. I totally respect the various views found here. I was seeking an article to compliment my Magnet School hub article, and while I still plan to link to this hub as an additional source of information on "schools", I hope the LAUSD teachers that follow this link are thick-skinned:) Thanks for the info.
Moonchild-Do you honestly believe most teachers to be more intelligent than the average parent? You make the assumption that homeschooling fails because most parents are ignorant slacks who hold themselves to a higher intellect level than they truly possess.
The fact is, there exist those educators that hold their degree simply because it's the easiest degree to get, not because of a true passion to educate the youth. Though they may be few, those are the teachers I DON'T want educating MY child.
I, on the other hand, hold no teaching certificate, but something far more valuable to my child. I have an intimate knowledge of her learning style and interests, and I have a true passion to cultivate those interests while exposing her to more opportunities for learning than sitting at a desk all day could offer. You can't argue with a personalized educaction from someone with a vested interest in the outcome.
My kids started out in public school. It was less than desirable. The educational pace was keep up or get lost. Those children that were ahead academically were bored. Social interactions where focused on material objects (who had the best and most expensive, most money, etc.). There was a LOT of bullying, that was harmful (physical violence).
Kids were home schooled as well. Not for every child, and it should be taken into consideration. My son does enjoy homeschooling. He has some learning disabilities so the one on one works well. He does get social interaction through many community groups (boys and girls club, boy scouts, neighborhood kids, etc.). Academically he would be VERY behind in the public schools due to his learning issues, but since he is home schooled he has been able to at least meet state academic standards for his grade levels (and in some areas exceed). As far as college, when he is old enough he plans on taking classes at our local community college and then transferring to a state University.
My daughter did not care for homeschooling, although she does miss it at times. She goes to a charter school, which has very small classes and more one on one support available (6th through 12th grade, total of 300 kids in the entire school). She does like it, but from time to time misses the get to the point no nonsense approach I took with homeschooling (i.e. no busy work, or work with no point).
I think each child has an individual learning style and you as a parent should explore different options to find one style that fits.
Moonchild60, a LOT of public school children are coming out of high school having to take remedial college courses. Homeschooled kids on average score HIGHER on their ACT and SAT's.
To Ryan, I am writing an article on Diversity and Homeschooling Socialization. This is an area often overlooked by home schooling parents. Most cooperatives and functions for home schoolers are predominantly Caucasian in America. Some groups openly accept minorities but others exclude them. As an example of a television program on Boston Legal, some are decidedly "white." This is the choice of the parents; however, the children still need accurate information to successfully interact with other races and cultures. I am a Diversity instructor who has been recognized at the mayoral level. I respect parents' rights to share their ideas and beliefs. But, the children still need to be able to interact with different cultures when they enter higher institutions and the workplace. For those parents who isolate due to race, religion, or culture, orientation to other viewpoints is wise. This can be done successfully at home or in cooperative type settings. Regardless whether another person agrees with the parents' views, the most important aspect is ensuring exposure and instruction in tolerance and methods for global success. More on this in a hub I'm authoring.
As someone who is a parent and a teacher I can set some of these people straight. First of all, yes, a teacher is (as a point of fact) more intelligent than the average parent. Sorry if that hurts anyone but it is the truth.
Secondly, I find it funny that parents feel they can more objectively evaluate their own children than teachers. I find it difficult to help my own children with their homework because I feel I am being overly hard on them and do not always know what the specific learning objective of the homework is.
Thirdly, it amuses me that someone would think a teaching degree--or any four -year degree is easy to get and am not surprised that people who say things like that often have no degree whatsoever.
I know all about LAUSD, too, as I have taught there as a substitute teacher. You need to look at recent studies. Testing will show you that WHERE you live is an important factor here. If you live in one of the "lower score" states regarding the quality of education then your kids are already at a disadvantage being taught by professionals let alone by parents.
Public schools MUST require MORE of their teachers than private schools by the way. On the other hand, homeschooling has the least requirements of the (ahem) "teachers".
Sorry to interrupt but when someone oversteps a line someone needs to at least attempt to educate the ignorant or indoctrinate the uninformed.
wsp2469,
I too am a teacher and a parent. I completely disagree with you. After successfully teaching in the classroom for many years I have decided to stay home and homeschool my own children.
I think I must live in the same community as "Heather" who posted earlier. There are thousands of homeschooled children near us and their parents are as fully capable of teaching them as I would be. These homeschooling parents are dedicated and eagerly search out the best curriculum and extra curricular activities for their children. Teaching your children is not just stuffing them with information. It's teaching them HOW to learn and how to discover answers. Many parents learn right along with their children and they discover answers together. There's nothing wrong with that. Many teachers in schools just know "their" subject and couldn't teach anything else. Homeschool parents don't claim to know it all...they claim excitement in helping their children discover the answers that they need.
Your next point was that you feel parents can't objectively evaluate their own children because you find difficulty helping your own children when you don't know the learning objective of the homework. Ummm....homeschool parents DO know the learning objective of the work because they assigned it. That makes it fairly easy to assess.
Every state has it's own testing requirements. My state has none. BUT almost every parent I know utilizes the standard testing provided to homeschool children in different locations. We all want to be sure our kids are on track. Mine, for instance, are a full year ahead.
So you see, I have the same degree that you have. I have the same teaching experience that you have. I have children as you do. But we see things very differently. Don't assume that those with opinions that differ from yours have "overstepped a line". Don't assume they are ignorant or uninformed. Most of the homeschool parents that I know are very intelligent people that are dedicated to LEARNING.
Just relax. You make sure the public school does a great job. I'll make sure my homeschool children do a great job. We can all make where we are the best that it can be.
Great story with very timely implications. How do we determine the best method for educating our children? The debate goes on and on....
We chose to homeschool because I felt like my young kids were simply missing out on too much by being in a classroom all day. When my oldest child was attending lower elementary school, my homeschooling friends were taking their kids on organized field trips to plays, concerts, museums, science centers, nature centers, farms, fire stations, planetariums, police stations, and medevac helicopter tours. When my 2nd oldest was going into Kindergarten, I couldn't stand it anymore and decided to homeschool them both plus a younger sibling. Now, as homeschoolers, we've done all of the things mentioned above and much more including seining in a nearby waterway with a marine biologist, homeschool tennis classes with a pro who gives us a super discounted rate, gymnastics, and even homeschool band. Our homeschool highlight so far was an incredible off-season trip a couple of years ago from Florida to Washington D.C. (We never could have afforded to go during the summer). We participate in a super co-op in which (among other things) my gifted 5th grader is allowed to participate in a jr. high level Latin/Greek vocab building class taught by a retired teacher. This is something that neither I NOR the local public school could provide. As far as academics, I may not be a certified teacher, but one child consistently scores in the 97th percentile on the Stanford Achievement Test. A second generally scores in the low 90's and the other (who chose to go to a large private school for Jr. High) always scored in the 80's. His transition to "real" jr. high was amazingly smooth. He did great academically and is also participating on several sports teams now. For us, homeschooling was definitely the way to go. I just really miss having my son with us on family activities now that he's in school. I hope no one sees this post as "braggy" but I felt like I needed to set the record straight for some who feel that homeschooling somehow automatically provides all children with a sub-par educational and social experience.
rsej,
There are exceptions to every rule. I am sure YOU are personally qualified to teach your children. I am NOT sure every single other parent is qualified to teach children. You have met a certain group of requirements while the parents you speak of have not. That's truly my bottom line there.
I don't know where you live so I can't (nor do I want to) argue with you about single-subject teachers knowing or not knowing how to teach in general. I know where I earned MY degree we were given the tools to teach more than one subject. If that's not true in all cases then I would have to give you some room there as well as tell you I'm sorry to hear that.
The fact that the parents you know assign the learning objectives doesn't give me any comfort. As a parent, I know what I would like my children to learn but as an educator I realize my desires may not mesh with what the district, state and "feds" think my children need to know in order to be at least as smart as kids in public schools.
(Actually, I have more than one degree and am certified in at least two different states and on both coasts so I'm not sure we DO both have the same degree. I'm not sure why you brought that up but I just thought I would give you a little more information about my background just in case you were wondering. I also wasn't aware that I posted anything about my many years of experience either so I'm not sure what you meant unless you were simply generalizing to make your point.)
I'm not making any assumptions. I guarantee you that if anyone else was a former teacher turned homeschooling parent they would have mentioned it. I DO think your opinion holds a little more weight than that of others since you have some experience as a teacher. I assure you, if you reread the above posts you will see a few ignorant statements. (I simply did not want to single out anyone in particular. I don't have time for a bunch of nonsense here when I have hubs to write.)
YOU are certified in YOUR state to teach and therefore YOU are more qualified than the others to teach. People need to realize that. People need to acknowledge that. Anyone who does not acknowledge that you know more about teaching in YOUR state than everyone else does NOT have a degree is indeed in need of an education themselves.
Remember what you had to do to get your degree. Give yourself a little bit of credit. Give all OTHER teachers more credit than those who don't have a degree. That's the bottom line.
seohowto says:
18 months ago
great hub! My kids are going to the public school though we are living in a very good area and I wouldn't mind if my kids go to a good public school. The problem is that at the time we were buying our house, we didn't have kids, not even in our minds:). Now, if we want them to go to the public school that has a good reputation, we have a dilemma: to sell the house and move 2 blocks futher or to stay and pay for the public school. Since the real estate market is down, we've decided to invest in our kids education. But it's getting more expensive as the tuition fees are raising every year and in addition to that all other activites are not free...