How Intact Marriages Harm Families
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We hear a lot about the sanctity of marriage. We hear about how children are harmed by divorce, and about how society is harmed by divorce, and about why people are bad and selfish because they can't manage to stay married.
What we don't hear much about is how marriage itself often harms women, children, and even some men when it lasts. When people stick with a bad marriage no matter what, they set a horrible and depressing example for their children, they create and aggravate emotional and mental problems, and they waste perfectly good lives trying to fix something that can't be fixed.
We don't hear that very often, but we should.
I'm not saying that marriage is always harmful to families. Obviously good, lasting marriages are helpful to everyone. Good marriages provide social stability and a solid and secure environment for children. Good marriages provide real love and comfort for the two adults involved in them, and the commitment between those two people reverberates throughout the community in the form of better job performance, greater generosity and good spirit, and a lasting sense of personal belonging and time-honored tradition.
But good marriages are rare these days.
According to a recent U.S. Census Bureau Report:
"About 50% of first marriages for men under age 45 may end in
divorce, and between 44 and 52% of women's first marriages
may end in divorce for these age groups. The likelihood of a divorce
is lowest for men and women age 60, for whom 36 % of men
and 32 percent of women may divorce from their first marriage by
the end of their lives. A similar statistical exercise was performed in
1975 using marital history data from the Current Population Survey
(CPS). Projections based on those data implied that about one-third of
married persons who were 25 to 35 years old in 1975 would end their
first marriage in divorce.
"This cohort of people, who in 1996 were about 45 to 55 years old,
had
already exceeded these projections as about 40% of men and
women in these ages had divorced from their first marriage. Current
projections now indicate that the proportion could be as high as
50% for persons now in their early forties."
This oft-quoted Census passage is hotly debated, with some groups insisting the U.S. divorce rate is trending much higher than 50% now, and other groups insisting the rate is closer to 30%. Since most of the groups arguing about the actual divorce rate have political axes to grind, it's very hard to tell what is really going on, but it's safe to say there's probably enough misery to go around no matter how you quantify it.
Whatever numbers you choose to believe, it's obvious that not all marriages that make it are happy ones. We all know plenty of married people who scare us to death--almost as much as they scare each other.
Why then do we heap praise on those among us who realistically look at the statistics and either proceed with extreme caution or avoid the institution altogether?
Why do we beat up on people who leave bad marriages?
Why do we act like marriage is 'sacred'? It wasn't even allowed in the early Christian Church, which was anticipating the end of the world at any moment. St. Paul, relenting because people were prone to copulate, allowed marriage because the End Times were just taking too damned long to come around.
Look it up.
Like a Fish Needs A Bicycle
When I was a kid, the two major criteria I was taught for choosing a husband were 1) will he beat you? and 2) does he drink? If he didn't beat you and he wasn't a drunk, he was considered a great guy and the consensus was that you should probably marry him. If he only did one of these two things (beat you or drink), he might not be a great catch but then again, you might not want to toss him back in the river either. Maybe you could work with him. Cheer him up. Bake him some cookies or something. Fix your hair.
You're not getting any younger. Cut the guy some slack.
That was sick and messed up, and I did (thank God) survive that insane upbringing, but what impresses me about it at this point in my life is how not unusual it was.We still push our girls toward marriage, and even when we don't, they often feel anxious to wed as soon as their friends start doing it. The dress, the cake, the shower, the honeymoon--Most girls really want that. Wouldn't it be great if they could get all that and leave off the marriage part?
It would be less painful anyway.
In past generations, women had to be hustled into marriage as soon as possible because that was what families did: They married their daughters and found jobs for their sons (or sent them to school). Times have changed since those bad old days, and now women can earn enough money to live without men. I think it's no coincidence that as soon as women could live without men they started to do so in great numbers.
The vast majority of divorces are initiated by women.
I'm not saying men are evil rat bastards. I live with one and I love him very much. But I do think we uncritically accept the idea of marriage as a good and wholesome thing and then rush each other into it when in fact it has always been much better for men than it has been for women, and it has always come with terrible dangers for all, most notably physical and/or emotional abuse, but also the failure of love, the passage of time, bad luck, disaster.
When children grow up witnessing a sick relationship between two adults who stay together mostly because society tells them to do it, those children grow up with problems if they grow up at all. Child abuse and spousal abuse is still rampant in modern society, and too many men stay with women they don't love only because they are afraid of the financial consequences of leaving them. Lawyers get rich and people suffer quietly or noisily or hand over large sums of money to escape what too often turns into a living hell.
Why don't we just speak plainly about this?
I'm personally tired of the foolish romanticizing of an institution that is at best shaky and at worst dangerous and harmful. Perhaps marriage has served its purpose, perhaps it's still a viable institution, but let's at least stop acting like it's one long happy chick flick.
So go ahead and get married. I'm not saying don't marry. But think about it first, a lot. Think about it for a long, long time and then think about it a bit longer still. And if you find yourself in an abusive situation, leave immediately and take care of yourself.
And if people judge you, tell them where to go.
They're probably already there, but you can tell them anyway.
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Comments
Thanks Writer Rider. I was kind of in curmudgeon mode. It's nice of you to start out with a kind comment. I'm expecting the shame police any minute here. lol! Thanks!
Excellent article. I love that picture at the top.
Everything you said is so true.
My father left in 1971 when I was 9 and my brother 4. Mum was a solo parent before it was fashionable - in fact almost the first year there was any govt assistance. He tended to never get around to paying child support you see..
I have always been very happy that he left- though my mother tried very hard to shield him from us and to be honest at that stage I had only just started arguing with him.
What I learnt growing up with a strong woman:
* I could do anything but I better get a good job to support myself while doing it (OK I've moved on from that but it was better advice than the alternative!)
* you can live your life without a car - it just takes more planning
* if you can't afford ballet lessons now you can always do them later when you are working (I did - I was crap!)
* dogs are more loyal than men
* don't trust a man too much - be responsible for your own happiness
* being poor is not the end of the world - what possessions you have doesn't matter - they are only things and you can always get more of them if you really want them later.
It was a pretty good upbringing!
Thanks Uninvited Writer!
Lissie--Thank your for those insights and for sharing your experience. My parents stayed together to the end, and my mother never had two dresses while my father was alive. After he died, she suddenly had a decent life and some peach, but she was never happy, not really. At her funeral all they talked about was him, even though he'd been dead 15 years. I always thought that was so sad. I still do.
What a great photo and interesting hub. There are days when I am not all that good but i think there are moments of greatness in me. Life is to short to be terribly sad. "We Are As Happy As We Want To be."
Right on, as usual.
Hi Gergiekevin--Good point. Thanks for stopping by. :)
Thanks William!
Very interesting hub! Thanks for sharing. :)
Pam: My mother left my Dad and raised us on her own and as an immigrant in the USA. Since we were a household of three women we learned to be self sufficient. However, I was just thinking since Phil and I celebrated 5 years of living together yesterday, that I wouldn't mind being married to Phil, but he is not really into marriage. I was thinking, what happens if he were to pass away? I would be left in the middle of a rural town without the security that is afforded a spouse. Being married is practical especially when one is already in the boomer years, and we both hope to go into our old age together.
Wonderful piece, Pam. Too many people get caught up in the fairy tale of marriage instead of looking at the reality. It's a really weird subject actually, the whole marriage thing. I remember so much about my mother and father's relationships with each other and others after they divorced. Thankfully, I made up my own mind and looked at their experiences and action, and what "I" thought about them, as opposed to their words and choices in deciding my fate. I'd say it turned out well, but who knows what tomorrow will bring... if we weren't married, would that make our relationship any different? Only legally. Great topic, Pam.
I like you Pam. You tell it like it is! My dad was telling me over and over again to not marry when I was a kid (because he and my mom split). But when I got to college and began getting serious with a few girls, he'd ask me, "Well, you gonna ask her?"
"I thought you didn't want me to marry!" I said.
"Well, I thought that maybe one of us would get lucky."
That pretty much sums it up.
Great hub. I've been married for nearly 20 years and every year has challenges. I wouldn't say marriage is for everyone and certainly hope my daughters don't jump into it because of societial pressure. It seems like every generation moves further and further from traditional expectations.
Thank you for busting this common illusion. It is true that married men live longer, but living longer doesn't always necessarily mean quality of life either. It depends on the people. One of the worst things about the whole romantic love myth is the idea that it has to continue exactly at the state and intensity it did during courtship.
That there's something wrong with just getting along with someone well, being friendly and considerate during the times the hot hot romance cools and making it a functional partnership where compatibility of goals, habits and so on is really the important thing. I think that people are supposed to just blindly trust their hearts and go for whoever's attractive -- and very often that's exactly the person who's presenting the other half of the familial dysfunctional pattern.
Whoever tries to break out of it with therapy becomes the bad guy and then it's unstable.
There are far worse things than divorce. All I have to do is look at the news -- and the people who wind up killing spouse and children to take them with while they kill themselves. There's getting used to the abuse and just going along with it right till death.
Your story about your mother was so sad. At her funeral all they talked about was her husband? It sounds like after he was gone she didn't get out to make her own life and have friends of her own who didn't know him or who were always closer to her. Like his friends were what was left to her social circle.
I have been weighing the idea now and then myself. Wondering in the abstract rather than actually looking for a girlfriend, because I know my limits and know what my life was like when I did.
One thing that does factor into the "first marriage is the one they learn on" serial monogamy custom is people rushing into it without actually making self-honest choices about who they are and how they want to live. They choose on appearance or perceived status, they choose fast because all their friends are doing it and their parents take it for granted they will and everyone's going to have kids, right?
Then guys wind up paying child support and only get to visit the kids once in a while on a holiday, usually in some other state, while trying to support two households. Women wind up trying to take on both roles at the same time and somehow also have a life. There isn't enough time and energy left to go around and divorce costs a fortune. People who were doing all right in life, on one wrong choice, wind up both facing bankruptcy. It's not an easy thing to do at all.
While if it's roommates or housemates no one thinks anything of trying out as many of them as it takes to find someone genuinely compatible whose habits don't drive you up the wall and whose life choices don't absolutely preclude the things that matter most to you. I think a lot of people marry before they even know how to be a good roommate -- and that leads to a lot of unintentional abuse.
Which plenty of codependents will train right into the real thing even if they didn't have that in their family background.
I think there's a huge cultural assumption that money is a big deal and appearance is a big deal, when neither of those things necessarily gives happiness. Then the couple who did actually do a good job at getting along with each other are both confusing everyone around them by it. Their friends don't get it why they'd rather go home than go out cruising.
I think that the way things are, it helps if people actually get to know themselves before making major life decisions like "what's my career goal for life?" and "who am I going to settle down with?" and "where do I want to live?" Most of the time the defaults on these things don't work well.
The dress, the cake, the shower, the honeymoon ... I laughed when you said that but afterwards I thought, how many girls get married because their friends got the dress, the cake, the shower, the honeymoon and they don't want to feel left apart from that experience? This is an adolescent gregarious behaviour.
Of course the problem with girls is that they need to acquire quickly the persona that society still gives them as only serious identity. Why quickly? I don't know. Fact is, either they get the cake etc. or they get pregnant before the cake etc. Anyway, divorce might be sad often times, but many others is just the only solution. Thank you Pam.
Hi Pam. Overall, I agree with everything you say. I do believe it is better for children to be raised in intact families than broken ones. But as you point out, only if the two parents are committed to the marriage. It's hard to hide misery. Kids are astute little buggers.
I also feel that divorce is too easy to obtain these days.
This has actually lessened the 'sanctity' of the institution.
What's the solution? Well, Mighty Mom's rules would not allow anyone to get married without getting a marriage license. But not like the current ones. I mean more like a driver's license. You would have to take courses and even a road test of some sort before being allowed to say "I do."
It would be preferable for people not to be allowed to marry until they are old enough to know themselves well. But since people mature at different rates, that would be difficult. One person's 25 is another person's 32, ya know?
Also agree that (esp for females) the fantasy of the dream wedding is too much of a focus. Marriage is what happens AFTER the wedding -- and it requires patience and compromise and sacrifice.
I think what I'm suggesting is a maturity test.
BTW, I would suggest a similar test to make sure you're ready for parenthood.
... and you thought YOU were in a curmudgeonly mood:-)???MM
Hallelujah! Thanks for telling it like it is. Nothing curmudgeonly about a big shot of wake-up. I can smell the coffee from here, LOL.
Hey......Mighty Mom has this right! If only her rules could be enforced statistics might be improved.
In the beginning of your hub you said that the statistics are better for people 60 and older. If it were not for the childbearing years.....that could be the answer! LOL
@VioletSun - where do you live - because I have shared an address/bank account/bills with my partner for more than 2 years I am legally married in New Zealand - to not to be considered so I would have had to contracted out. That means in terms of child support/inheritance etc its all the same as if we had done the wedding license thing. Most places these days give defacto the same or identical rights to those with a bit of paper
If girls want a big wedding I strongly recommend competitive ballroom dancing (dancesport) -I get to do the whole makeup / hair / beautiful dress on average once a month LOL - and much less hassle - no arguments about catering - cheaper too!
Some men have been sold the romantic dream too, you know. Just to set the record straight. Some are sold the Prince Charming role as much as little girls are sold the princess crap. The obligatory role of provider and t-ball coach and all that other crap isn't necessarily what it's cracked up to be when Rapunzel turns out to have been wearing extentions and Romeo signed up early based on the infomercial ... etc., mixed metaphor, blah blah.
Just saying.
(I love when you get curmudgeonish, btw, Pam. lol)
This is a great facet of life. I've been divorced 5 times and refuse to try it again. I'm usually stronger than the men I'm attracted to and find that it's from the way I was raised. Romance is still there, but people need a reality check once they get into a steady relationship before "I do" comes into the picture. My grandfather told my mom when she met her last husband. The first year is all starry eyes. The second year you are finally get to know them. The third year all their bad habits pop out. Year four you are either go to keep it or leave it. Year # 5 if you are still friends and still enjoy each others company, it's a pretty good bet it'll last. That's a viewpoint of a 95 yr old man. :) Good Hub! I hear strains of N. Diamond and B. Streisand "You don't bring me flowers" in the background.
Lissie: I live in Oregon, we share a business account, but not his property or my meager benefits. I am not a rural type of gal, so if he passes away before me, I would have to move out of the State. How cool New Zealand gives you these benefits- living together is just a like a marriage except for the piece of paper.
Ay ay, Pam, between your article and Mighty Mom's comment I'm nodding furiously here. First of all, I don't know why girls (and boys for that matter, to nod to the Prince Charming angle brought forth by Shades) are brought up to think of marriage as a fairly tale, when it's a contract and one whose terms are hard to adhere to boot. Second, I don't know a more demanding job than keeping a marriage (or long term committed, monogamous relationship) going. Given all that, I have no clue why society would frown upon breaking a contract when the terms aren't satisfactory any longer or when the terms have been breached by one, or both, of the parties. It's the same as thinking there ought to be no complains if one's sold a car with three wheels.
As Mighty was saying, marriage as an institution would probably have more success if some kind of maturity/readiness test was carried out on the candidates :)
I don't disagree that we should have less focus on marriage as the be all and end all. This is an illusion as surely as anything else. However, I wanted to give another viewpoint on this.
i've been happily married for the better of 12 years. Sometimes, it has been seriously challenging and I've thought about leaving when I couldn't see a way through. But my husband and I have both remained committed to our life and each other - but with an "eyes wide open" way. And our kids are growing up with adults who are wiling to grow, change and learn.
However, I didn't marry until I met the right man (willing to work and grow and change) - and that was at age 36, when I had done a lot of work on myself. I think marriage is great - but you do have to be "mature" and ready to handle the fact that you are living with another human being (warts, hangnails and all) and that they are NOT you.
I also decided I would be sure that I had a compatible person in terms of values and growth before I let my hormones get the better of me. That doesn't mean I picked perfectly - but a heck of a lot better than when I just "fell in love" without getting to know the person first.
I think it is our expectations of marriage that kill it: the infamous "happily EVER after". I am not always happy with ANYONE so how can I expect that with my partner? All my relationships take negotiation, tolerance and forgiveness - how can I not expect that in my marriage? Every human interaction takes work - time, effort and commitment. That's just the way they are: but we tolerate more of that kind of work between child and parent or between siblings. Somehow, marriage is just supposed to end up being "easy".
I suspect that is where a lot of things go awry. If you enter into any relationship with fairy tales clouding your sight, you aren't going to see the person who you are involved with. You are going to see your dreams. This kind of illusionary thinking messed me up several times before I decided that my terrible relationship history had something to do with ME. (In fact, I call my first attempts at finding a mate "relationship roadkill".) Even living with one guy didn't fix that: denial and illusion are a strong brew that intoxicates - especially if you think you are "in love".
While I agree that no one should stay in a bad marriage "just because", we also forget that our relationships are a reflection of ourselves. When we are whole and healthy - and are not in the relationship because we are so needy we don't think we can be alone - then growth, change and even a good marriage is truly possible. There's some of those buried in those statistics on marriage.
It makes me wonder why we don't do more to help people "grow up". Maturity is key to any relationship, married or not: but we don't seem to foster it. Instead we feed ourselves a steady diet of delusion. The idea that anyone can walk away from a relationship and not leave debris in their wake is as foolish as the dream that a marriage is just the wedding day. And while sometimes it is absolutely necessary, I wonder how many times people simply find it easier to walk away because they don't want to change or don't want to accept responsibility for themselves or prefer the illusion that it's all about their partner and has nothing to do with them.
That's a bad lesson to teach our kids.
I really think we've somehow lost the idea of personal responsibility. When I take responsibility for myself, then my life will teach me something, whether I stay or go. But if I am stuck in some kind of victim stance, I'll blame marriage or I'll blame my ex or I'll blame the weather - but I'll never learn.
Hi everyone,
Usually I answer each comment individually but I woke up to so many of them this morning that would take me most of the day and I have to finish some freelance stuff. I really appreciate all of your thoughts and insights. There's a lot of good stuff in comments today, lots more could be said.
I was thinking as I wrote this about the cohabitation issue and the effect that favoring marriage has on people in that circumstance. Personally I don't think the US government should be in the business of pushing marriage by granting special tax breaks or whatever, and that the US should have a sufficient social safety net so that people who lose a partner aren't cast into the street if they aren't married to that person.
I know in my own relationship we each have life insurance with the other person as the beneficiary and we have each other as beneficiary on our other assets as well. A will can help too. I get tired of being called a socialist just because I believe in treating people humanely and not favoring one group over another. Why must the government push marriage? Isn't that between two people? Give tax breaks for people who are raising children whatever their marital status or sexual orientation but quit making ANY kind of benefits contingent on marital status. That's my view.
interesting stats. Although, I'd like to see the percentages for rates on the east coast of USA vs West Coast. I believe the east is more family oriented. anyway, I was in that group by staying in for my daughter wanting to be a good Dad but it was just impossible. I remember how kids turn out who grow up in broken families. broken home is worse.
In some ways I feel my parents intact marriage was not a healthy thing. My mom actually talked about leaving my dad a few times when I was younger because he was selfish with money, and basically always gone like a single person. My mom thought it would be better for us kids to stay in a two parent home financially, but over the years she was the one who worked more consistently than my dad.
He often would have jobs that would pay really well, but he preferred to just work a few days a week. His goal was to only make the house payment and having spending money, but he never put extra aside for our college education. I do not resent this, but then he would tell people that he was helping to put me through college, which was a lie.
My mom ended up working long hours at work and home because he was basically a little lazy in my opinion. He would plant the garden in the summer and do some yard work, but beyond that everything fell on me. I became a slave to cleaning the house, looking after my sisters, and walking the three large dogs he wanted.
I wanted to help my mother because no one else really put in the effort, but sometimes my dad would stand there supervise as I did the dishes, watered the garden, and tell me how he could do it better. I told him okay do it then, but then he would walk away and find something better to do. Personally I feel he has taken my mom for granted all these years, and she has enabled him to be a little selfish and lazy.
Some people really never want to be married or have kids, and I feel my father was one of them. Well I think he liked the part of being taken care of and having the option of not wanting to work much, but all of his free time was spent out with friends. My dad was really not in my life when I was young, and now we do not even have a relationship because of it. My mom wants to remain married to him, but her decision to put up with his nonsense has made me far more choosy at calling men out of their ridiculous behaviors. I want to be in an equal relationship, not to be a maid. My life was not all bad though because growing up in the mountains and spending time with those dogs was amazing. I still think about my dog Lady every day.
A very valid point. At least now women have more chances to leave a bad marriage and find a new love. My grandma had to wait until her father died before she could divorce her husband. At her time, divorce was a shame for the woman and her family. Thank goodness things have change.
ocbill--Thanks for your thoughts. The arguing over the stats is incredible. That's why I tried not to focus on exact numbers too exclusively.
Sweetie Pie--You dad sounds a lot like my dad, except my dad did work very hard--he just didn't do much of anything else. My mother started to become ill for long stretches by the time I ws 9 or 10 and as the oldest of four, I ended up, like you, in the substitute wife role. It never once occurred to me at that time that maybe my father should cook supper, do the dishes, clean, do laundry, watch the smaller ones--or that someone should be enlisted to help. That's how much we took it for granted that a man should never have to do that kind of work, even if it came down to a kid doing it. Basically I had no childhood, but my parents gave me life so I am grateful for that. Beyond that though, it's upsetting to think about.
Even much later in life, after I left home and my mom was 'well' more often, she had no friends of her own and no life and no decent clothes until my dad died in his early 40s. The whole family slammed my mother and praised my father for putting up with her through all her misery and illness, and yet when I look back on it I can clearly see that she put up with him and suffered for it too. I don't think either of them was ever truly happy, and really it just all came from marrying and having kids way too soon.
Princessa--I am glad that things are changing now! We have so many more choices than our parents had. Thank your for your comments.
We are friends with a couple who are living like single people inside a marriage that resembles a war-zone. The two children are by turns ignored, neglected, manipulated, then over-indulged in a pathetic attempt to make up for the lack of day-to-day solidarity. The parents are intelligent, high-achieving and articulate, yet they seem completely oblivious to the damage they're inflicting on their kids. Some people don't deserve children. If two people want to sock it out in a diasterous marriage then that's for them to sort out, but little children don't deserve to be part of the action. Perhaps, as Mighty Mom suggested, people should pass an exam before they have a family.
Hi Amanda--I so agree. Kids shouldn't be pawns in a never ending feud between parents. I know lots of married people but I only know of a few marriages I truly admire. People always talk about how we need to support marriage because it is the best environment for raising children but I'm not convinced. I think children should be raised in an environment where there is love and security and at least one person who really wants to raise children, but that is rarely where children are actually raised. I think we hold dog owners to higher standards actually.
Hi Pam, Your Hub is (as usual) very interesting, and you have attracting comments that are all thought-provoking.
As I was reading through them I was trying to think why Tricia & I both say we are happy in our marriages.
Both of us married very young - we have often remarked to each other that we would have been worried if our children had got married so young.
Neither of us is happy every single minute of every single day - but that's fine. We never though we would be!
Maybe we have stayed married so long, and consider ourselves happy because we never expected perfection.
I could go on - but would just be rambling...
Hey Pam, stop making sense!
Not really, because you're very good at it so keep it up.
I'm eighteen years into my third marriage and sometimes I wonder if I wasn't really meant to be a hermit or, better yet, a Buddhist monk.
Then again, there are some incredibly wonderful memories from all three relationships.
It's like you say, we could have had the same experiences sans the marriage part.
It's odd. My parents were together 59 years. They would still be had my mother not died.
Some people believe, erroneously, that genetics pre-determines what kind of person you'll be. I'm living proof it ain't so.
PG, great article using the right line of reasoning!
Hi 2patricias--I know people who have had good, basically happy marriages like the two of you. I admire that, I just don't think it should be held up as the standard for everyone in a judgmental and punitive way. Some of it is personal skill at relationships, but I think some of it is also luck. I'm glad you don't relate to this! lol! That's wonderful. :)
Nancy--Thank you! I appreciate you stopping by. :)
CWB--We again have some things in common here. I feel the same way about my marriages. I learned from each of them, and there were good times as well as bad. Without those marriages I wouldn't have my children and that would be sad and a major loss. But I'm not at all sad for leaving them. I think in each case it was the right thing to do, and each time I waited longer than I should have for fear of harsh judgment from others. Now I don't care what people think so much. I will be with Bill for the duration, but whether or not we marry is entirely beside the point. Thanks for your thoughts, they are always welcome here. :)
Ok, here's another random MM thought. What if we look at marriage like school? You keep learning and "graduate" onto the next spouse as your growth suggests. If you find your high school sweetheart is still the one for you 30 years later, great.
But if you continued growing and learning and your spouse did not, then perhaps you need to move on to the college or masters level spouse:-).
I am only half joking here.
This comment is inspired by my own life experience as well as what CWB (a very wise man!) and you said above.
Hopefully, tho, we eventually reach relationship nirvana!!
Hi MM--I like the idea of renewable marriage contracts. You'd basically commit to a year, then renew in one, three, or five year increments. The contract would spell out the terms and when it was up either party could dissolve it or let it self-renew--that is, you could set it up to renew automatically unless one of the people terminated it.
It sounds kind of cold and clinical but it seems to me like it fits how people actually live more accurately, and it would cut lawyers out of the loop somewhat, which can only be a good thing. Having children would lead to more stringent commitment requirements natch. In fact, I wish we had some sort of required classes for people who are going to be parents. (Now someone will be along to call me a big fat socialist. Sigh. What else is new?)
I think you might be on to something. :)
For some people marriage is something that they could make money on, so people are going after something else other then family. I think this is one of the reasons. and the other is because people don't understand "marriage". It is very big responsibility. It's much much more than just a free sex.
Hi artrush73--Those are good points. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. :)
jxb7076 has an excellent list of things to check (before deciding to get married to a given person). I don't know how to link it but it's worth reading.
On another note, it would be quite a nice complement of the maturity license suggested by MM.
The hub is called something like "Is marriage really worth the trouble?"
I find nothing cold, clinical, nor socialist about your views. What I read is common, or should I say, uncommon good sense, clearly expressed.
I hear the voice of a woman who has learned things, perhaps the hard way sometimes, but who has discovered what is and is not acceptable for her, and who extends to others the privilege and responsibility to do the same...and is courageous enough to speak her mind.
...and the coffee still smells great from here! Kudos :)
Hi Rosario--Thank you for your thoughts and for stopping by. I really appreciate it.
Red Elf--Thank you! That was very kind of you. (I love coffee.)
:)
Although I am definitely not so eager to throw the institution out the window, you make excellent points and I often wonder how much better my life would have been if my parents had divorced.
I think the problem is that kids get married because they love each other and no other reason. They don't consider that marriage represents a commitment to each other beyond how they feel, stability for the entire family and that it represents God's relationship with his children. Marriage is like you said: the dress, the cake, the whole affair and a huge pressure to conform. To me, if I wasn't a Christian, I would not get married at all - what's the point? If you have love and it's enough, marriage has nothing to do with it. My cousins in Holland who are not saved, (Christian), generally believe that it is good to get to know their mates before they get married and take that step. They live together and sleep together and when they feel certain that it is the right thing to do, they get married. It's upside down, but it does work, and we should all be as diligent.
Pgrundy, you have shed light on a huge problem in American culture, (heck, it's a worldwide problem isn't it?). We are not committed to what marriage represents, but enamored with only the positive aspects. But to me, if you are not in love with your partner and you are not together in decision making and so on, buying into the yuppie lifestyle with the oversized car and house is false and stupid.
I know you're throwing doubt on the sanctity of marriage, but I applaud you anyway because you are revealing the flaws in our culture concerning it, and hopefully this will encourage people to look at marriage more seriously!
Thanks Alexander--I really appreciate your positive remarks since I know you disagree when it comes to faith. Some time I will write more personally from that side of it. In this hub I really didn't want to open myself up to review from others, but I will at some later date. I'm not ashamed. I do think there is a side to marriage that can be sacred but few people enter into THAT--as you say, it's the dress, the cake, the house in the suburbs, etc. It does take three actually-- two people and the higher power they both trust, whether that power be God, or love, or whatever. If you don't have some deeply shared core beliefs to sustain you both (and I don't personally think they have to be Christian beliefs but they can be), then I think it's too hard to get over the rough patches without taking it all personally. Marriage is definitely not for sissies! lol!
Pam: Read your comment about each one of you having life insurance with the other as benificiary- duh, of course we can do this. Thanks for the tip!
Hey no problem! We will actually marry eventually. With us it's all about debt issues and protecting the pittance we have. Another year or so and if we want to marry, we can, but by then we'll be so old I don't know if it matters. I think maybe with social security it would help--if there is any! lol!
Great hub - There is only "one thing better than a good marriage" --- that one thing is "getting out of a bad marriage."
BTDT (Been There Done That)
LOL! Thanks Neil! :)
I have been married many years to the same guy and we have certainly had our ups and downs. Would I marry him again? I guess I would. Deep down I just adore him and he is my soul mate, much as I could throttle him at times. We have no children, and so perhaps this has some bearing. I am not sure. We are not rich though if that has any bearing also :)
I do not advoctae marriage though as a necessity. It is up to the individuals concerned.
Hey Pam,
Have you ever noticed that people who have been married seem to jump back into a marriage. For instance I know people that have been married 5 or 6 times. I think it is a fear of being by themselves. It's like they have to be with someone. I think they are scared to be alone. And the happiest married people that I have observed are the ones who cheat. They are happy because they are in love with someone and still have someone taking care of things at home. If society did away with marriage it would probably cause total chaos. Men would probably go nuts literally. I think maybe that's why marriage was adopted by the church is because it stopped chaos and confusion. If you look at humans by nature, it is a man's nature to have sex with many and a man by nature is attracted to variety. A woman finds a good one and wants to stay with that one. And sometimes a woman is very self limiting thinking that there are few choices and that if she finds a half way decent one that she should hold on for dear life. Have you ever noticed there is also a stereotype that goes with people who have or have not been married. For instance if you've never been married and you are in your late 30's than there must be something off or not right with you. If you are married you are also more socially accepted if you are older. If you are married you are more likely to obtain a job, as I have recently just had an experience with. That's right being single can single you out on anything. Personally I hate the whole marriage thing, if you love me then love me; why do we need a piece of paper to say you love me?
Hi ethel--I can certainly relate to what you are saying. I do think it helps when there are no children. I also think when people become best friends that helps too. It sure gets you through the lulls. Thanks for your comments!
Spacesparkle--Those are all great points. I have found in my own life that I don't seem to fit any of the stereotypes very well. For example, scrambling to get a man and nail him down--never did that. It drove my parents crazy. I didn't marry for the first time until I was 25 and they acted like I was 48 and the spinster of the century. I never had to hunt for men. I'm average looking (or was) but I swear, they are all over the place. I'm usually the pursued not the pursuer. Never a bridesmaid always a bride. I do agree though that there's lots of pressure on single people past a certain age. At my last job, I got constant crap about it. Why won't you marry? Why do you insist on this living arrangement? Why do you call your boyfriend your 'partner'? (Because he's 58 not 16 and it sounds less stupid and more accurate.) It was unrelenting--and really, really annoying at times. I left last October and I don't miss that job at all. It was your typical cube farm--corporate hell, everyone wanting to move up or out.
I stuck it out in a bad marriage for nearly 14 years because I didn't want my children to go through the pain of seeing their parents separate and eventually divorce like I did. Then one day I realized that gritting my teeth and staying in a bad relationship was doing them far more harm than I could ever have imagined. Thanks so much for this Hub.
Thanks Nemingha--I'm glad you got out. I hope you are in a better place now. :)
A very good hub. A good relationship is life-enhancing for everyone, as you say. A bad one shouldn't be maintained for the sake of it.
I don't disagree with many of your points, but there have been many periods in my life where my husband and I stayed together for the kids and because we are married. 26 years later we are both glad we did and love each other very much. If we had not made the commitment of marriage, we may have felt it was easier to leave than to work things out.
Good point, Always Frugal. I'm glad you said that. Thanks for reading and sharing your views. :)
I am divorced and have been teaching my eight year old daughter to attend tertiary education, then get a job a car a house, then marry. But I can see that peer pressure as well as an inbred yearn for fairytale love is more motivating for my daughter. A friend once said to me "You married the first guy that smiled at you". I believe a woman should be financially independent and sorted out as to who and what she is and what she wants from a husband. You're article is full of honest, truthful, thought-provoking insight...
Hi Etresia--Your daughter sounds like she has a great mom! You know, we all make mistakes. I think lots of us marry the first person who smiles at us! Sometimes it even works out! But then when it doesn't we beat ourselves up or let others do beat us up over it. It's too bad because we all are just doing the best we can. Thanks for commenting. :)
Great article - really thought-provoking. I'm the only child of divorced parents. My mother brought me up alone, with very little help, financial or otherwise. I could see that she found it a struggle but I am convinced both of us were better off emotionally than we would have been had she remained married to my dad. I'm not saying that the blame was entirely on his side but they were two completely incompatible people whose married relationship was to say the least, toxic.
People have asked me why I and my partner (with whom I've lived for a decade) have never tied the knot. My stock response is nearly always "I don't do marriage", but of course this throwaway line doesn't begin to explain why I'm so wary of the whole concept of marriage. I think part of the reason so many marriages go down the pan is the sheer weight of expectation of how married couples "should" behave. It's almost as though some people, when they marry, cease to be independent people and turn into stereotypes. They also - whether consciously or not - think that once they're married they don't have to try any more. I remember going to my (male) cousin's wedding some years ago. He and his fiancee had been living together for a few years, but had decided to marry. At the reception, there was a leather-bound book in which all the guests were encouraged to write messages for the bride. I wrote something along the lines of "Make sure he carries on doing his share of the washing up!" When my cousin read the message, he said "I'm a married man now, I don't have to do things like washing up any longer." He wasn't joking.
I also believe that the lifestyles many people have today are incompatible with marriage or indeed with any stable relationship. I'm thinking of people who have jobs that require long hours (and long commuting times on top of that), or people who take on huge debts. I've often wondered whether the emphasis on home ownership in the UK where I live - and the resulting huge mortgages that people take out - is a factor in our country's high divorce rate.
This article totally makes sense. Glad to read it
Hi M.I.--Those are good points. I think also think that in the past a lot of women who wanted to leave bad marriages simply didn't have the means to do so. But expectations really are ridiculously high, and that doesn't help. Thanks for your comments!
Rebecca E.--Thanks for reading it. I'm glad you stopped by.
You asked a question, "Why do we act like marriage is 'sacred'?" You referenced church history, I've done some studying on what the Bible says about marriage, so I thought I'd give you some food for thought!
God established it and declared it sacred. In response to the question, is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife? Jesus answered (quoting Genesis) "Haven't you read,' He replied, 'That at the beginning the Creator made them male and female and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate...I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." (Matthew 19:4-8)
These are hard words for our present culture, and I'm sure they will offend many who read them. But at the same time you must realize the Bible has much to say on working through the difficulties in a marriage rather than running away from it or hiding the problems under the rug. Divorce is wrong according to Biblical law, and so is abusing your wife or husband, bitterness or gossip against your spouse, hurtful words and actions, and unconfessed or unforgiven sin against your spouse. Those who are in a hurtful relationship have compassion from the Lord, and His solution is to work it out, not to walk out. See the 'famous' chapter on love: 1 Corinthians 13. More specific instruction to married people is found in Ephesians 5:22-33, summed up in verse 33: "Each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."
You mentioned church history. The early church monks and priests were in error in teaching that marriage was not chaste or holy enough for church officials. They must not have read Proverbs 18:22, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and receives favor from the Lord." and 1 Timothy 3:12, "A deacon must be the husband of one wife and must manage his children and his household well."
The truth of the Bible definitely speaks on this topic, so relative to what many couples are going through today. I hope you've benefitted from these verses. There are many more on making marriages work, if you're interested.
Thanks for allowing comments!
Jane
Here's a cute story about the bible. It was being copied by hand, you know, and then copied off copies. After centuries of this someone suggested they'd check the copy against the original. The top monk went down to the basement to look at the original.
He stayed down there for ages, till the young monks went down to see what kept him. He was in the basement banging his head against the wall saying repeatedly: "They missed the R, they missed the R".
Erm... on marriage: If you don't get in, you don't need to get out. Don't ask for promises and I'll tell you no lies.
The thing with the renewable contracts: great to see an old tradition reassert itself. The old Celtic religion sported a handfasting ceremony where a lass and lad would promise to be true to each other for a year and a day, or however long their love lasted. When I heard about that I knew I'd found my type of marriage. It took me over a year to figure out that "however long their love lasted" could also mean longer, rather than shorter.
Happily ever after? I say "we'll see".
And good grief, this topic really brings the comments in droves doesn't it? :D Good stuff!
When you stood before the minister you said the words, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health til death do us part etc. These are not just words just to be saying something. You made a covenant between you and God. God hates divorce. It is true that if you stay in a bad marriage it will do more harm then good. You are adults. At least I think you are. What did you do to try to have a good marriage. What part did you play in that bad marriage. Bad marriges can be made better. All it takes is a willingness to work to get a good marriage. God designed marraige so he can help you fix it.
Oscarwms: "All it takes is a willingness to work to get a good marriage." Agreed, but better to amend that to "All it takes is a willingness *on both sides* to work to get a good marriage." Sadly, in many marriages the work is largely one-sided. If you keep putting work in, and all you get back is disrespect/habitual unfaithfulness/actual violence, then really it's best to cut and run.
Well I don't know. I think when people talk about intact couples staying together being good for kids, family etc... I think they are just talking about structure. You are right poor marriages are tough on everyone, but it's not the marriage itself it is the structure. If you have a million dollar house with cardboard beams supporting it the house will fall....poor structure. It is the same with poor marriages. It’s not the marriage it is the structure it provides. Good marriages provide good structure to all, but poor marriages provide poor structure. Marriage itself is a beautiful thing for good or for bad
nice article keep it un
The concept of Marriage is dead, it died in the US when they made divorce laws easy.
Marriage no longer serves a useful purpose and multiple marriages with children from one or more of these marriages is not handled well by the parents, ex spouses or the children.
The law is ill equipped to handle any of the resulting problems and because of the emotions involved, the parties to the action are not capable of developing a solution to minimize the damages done.
Most of the people today and in the last forty years are not capable of sustaining a marriage, yet they blindly go head or heels into matrimony.
Sure their intentions and feelings tell them it was the right thing to do at the time. But, as time wears on, so does the bonds of matrimony.
These problems also follow those that decide to be together and have children without the encumbrance of matrimonial bonds.
My point is that the culture and morals of the country have changed for the worse and there is no permanence in relationships.
Love is not a rock, it is more like a cloud that you have to keep following to stay in love.
While being in a bad marriage is bad for spouses and children, at least the damage is contained compared to multiple marriages and multiple families.
My solution is to make marriage the contract that it purports to be and define the terms and termination. Take the state out of the divorce court and put the problem into the realm of contract law. In the long run, it will be more equitable for all concerned.
The government doesn't need to be involved in marriage and divorce. With a marriage contract, both parties know their bounds and duties and what will happen if there is a breach in the contract.
When children are born, they are individually added to that contract in specific, to replace the contingency in the original contract.
Marriage should then be an option if you are religious and want to be married in your house of worship. But this would be in addition to the contract.
The contract is far better an idea than the current Divorce Courts and Family Law.
BTW, if you can enter into a valid contract at the age of 18, then you should also be able to vote and drink anywhere in the country.
This should be followed with some advice.
1. Don't rush into a relationship just because the hormones and the emotions are knocking at your door.
2. Try to prevent bringing children into this world that won't be raised by their parents, and then have only the number of children that you can really support, both financially and emotionally.
3. Try to reduce or eliminate the oops baby, those that weren't really planned. This is not rocket science, it can be done.
4. If you need companionship, then get a pet.
i enjoy it. it's nice.
fashion-worldnews.blogspot.com
This is a great hub. I was parented by two great people, individually. Have no idea what they thought was so good about staying together. I think sometimes if they would of split, there lives would have been so much better, for both of them.
I couldn't agree more. A healthy relationship between parents is what children need. Whether or not the parents are married is inconsequential. Well written, original viewpoint!
Excellent article. I love that picture at the top.
Everything you said is so true.
http:// fashion-worldnews.blogspot.com
I see your point. I don't think anyone should feel compelled to get married, and growing up in a situation with parents who are unhappily married can definitely perpetuate the problem. AND no one should ever judge someone harshly because they leave a bad marriage. But...
Almost 50% of marriages DO work, and yes some are happy. Seems like a good goal to me. Unfortunately, I think too many of us aren't raised to be good partners. Good communication skills, the ability to empathize, understanding and embracing "team" or whatever you want to call it, persistence, etc. This is part of why bad marriages are so destructive for kids; it teaches them all of the wrong things. Unfortunately, I think it takes only one person to destroy a marriage and two to make it work...therefore the odds are greatly reduced.
Yet another great hub! Marriage is a great institution, don't get me wrong. However being institutionalized isn't for everyone!LOL Seriously, marriage was create out of society's need for social stability and structure, thats a good thing. The problem with it today is simply this, most of us have some really old fasioned ideas about marriage that just don't mesh well with our new fasioned way of living.
Others points concerning how easy it is to get married or divorce are valid. However I would caution anyone who believes that the creation of more laws or social structures will some how make us all better people. Its personal responsibility and it can't be legislated or indoctrinated.
Marriage and family is about unconditional love. Its a promise, a huge promise with out knowing or having any garuntee of the future. One that we often make without serious thought. If you can't give unconditionally you are not capable of recieving anything unconditionally. This makes a marriage even under the best of circumstances unworkable or at the least quietly unhappy.
Finally. I would agree that a divorce may be neccessary under certain cases. However I have seen so many folks divorce only to go and find the same jerk or jerkette with a different face and name. Our society seems to think "I filed first" so its the other person's fault!LOL A divorce is with out a doubt a failure on BOTH parties. Even if your only fault was exercising poor taste or judgement it was not doubt a mistake!
M.I. says:
2 days ago
Oscarwms: "All it takes is a willingness to work to get a good marriage." Agreed, but better to amend that to "All it takes is a willingness *on both sides* to work to get a good marriage." Sadly, in many marriages the work is largely one-sided. If you keep putting work in, and all you get back is disrespect/habitual unfaithfulness/actual violence, then really it's best to cut and run.
Couldn't agree with you more, M.I. Very helpful and thought-provoking hub, Pam...obviously hits home with a lot of folks.
I would like to add my two sense here even though it might not be a popular one. I think it is too easy to get a divorce and I think our society looks for the easy way out.
There is nothing wrong with building a relationship that works, and for those who do Kudos to you! It's not always easy but I think it shows the character of the people who actually make that commitment with the intention of following through on it.
Don't get me wrong, I agree there are many cases where it's not advisable to stay together and where it would be better for the children and the partner if they didn't.
I personally endorse marriage - for the right reasons, and I hate to see so many fail because the foundation is just not there to build on in the first place. It's sad that the statistics show that 1/2 of the married population ends in divorce.
The problems stem from being infatuated by the fiction and coming unstuck with the reality and maybe that's rooted in society not having the guts or even the wherewithal to give each individual proper self esteem and purpose!
How right you are. My parents were together for 20 years before splitting and it was far too long. They really messed with our heads, playing mind games with each other through us. Plus all the violence didn't help. I watched my mother, a very strong willed and defiant person, turn into a shell of her former self when they broke up because she thought she had failed at her marriage. The big laugh there is she could'nt have tried more, and he couldn't have tried less. It hasn't put me off marriage though, I recently got married, but we took more than a decade of getting to know each other before we took the plunge. Really enjoyed your hub!
You are right about marriage. To stay in a bad marriage for the sake of staying married and proving to everyone in your family that you can stay married is bad. I am being judged by my own family because all but three of my marriages ended up in marriage and my first marriage ended up because i found out he was a child mmolester. My family destroyed my only happy marriage and my third husband died in 2000.
No one should stay married if it is a bad marriage.
hey great hub. I never thought about those things like that. I really appreciate ur sense of perception. y dont u check mines out at roseandab.blogspot.com and there is one here under relationships
Wow! This is the best thing I have ever seen on marriage! I wish I had been raised with the notion that its okay to be a single woman. Unfortunately when I was growing up if you were still a single woman by the time you were in your mid to late 20's then there was something wrong with you.
Excellent hub, very nice information my be belated congratulation on your 200 th hub
I know you are overwhelmed with comments on this hub, but I had to put my two cents in! This is a very interesting, truthful and well written hub! Kudos!
A greeting is the beginning of a period of fate,
A reunion is a beautiful legend,
One click is a nice myth,
Section of the exchange is a beautiful melody.
I wish friends a happy weekend
This was justwhat I needed. I am in the process of ending my 7 year relationship with my 3 yr old. son's father. We are not married but currently own and live in the same house but sleep in different rooms over the past 3 years. He works during the day, I went back to work as a waitress at night(to keep my son out of daycare till he goes to school) and to supplement income as he (the father) runs away from home almost every six months for a week or two (goes out with old friends, binge drinks and tries to regain what he is "missing" being at home (when we met we were "drinking partners" and I stopped when I became pregnant and never returned to it.)
My mom passed away 12 years ago from cancer at 55..she wanted me to get married..the big wedding to the handsome business man and someday millionaire..but for some reason she would always mention.."don't rely on a man to support you..change your own tires..get a good job and education and never stop learning you may need it". No marriage, no wedding but used the money she saved everyday since i was born for the downpayment on my house. I think she stayed in her marriage to my dad for me..my dad was good to me but maybe not to my mom emotionally that is. I think she was very alone but was afraid to leave, the fear of not being able to support. I am not afraid of the support, just of the psycologial effects on my son..I don't want to hurt him or but I don't know what is worse..me being unhappy and miserable and seeing me cry, or he thinking this is what marriage and love is and /or that is how a father treats their mother. Which situation would he be better off in?
The elders need to stop meddling and stop breaking parents up. Their once kids are now adults, and stop standing over them. Leave everyone alone.
Writer Rider says:
4 months ago
Oh, you don't know how right you are!