How to follow Jesus?
73
Conviction of Sin
Before a person can accept Jesus as their Savior and convert to Christianity, he/she must realize that he/she is a sinner in need of salvation. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There isn't a man, woman or child who hasn't sinned against God.
From the beginning when sin entered into man, God has always a required a sacrifice for sin. The sacrifices are called sin offerings. The blood of the offering is shed to atone for the sin(s) committed.
Once Sin is Realized
Once a person realizes there is sin in their life, guilt and shame will come. Their heart will be broken unless the person resists, then their heart will be hardened. Jesus want so heal the brokenhearted. God is the One who made the way for man to come back to Him.
Once a person decides to give his/her life to God they would then repent of their sins and ask for forgiveness. They will have to believe that Jesus died for them and that God raised him from the dead.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
God didn't make it hard for men to come back to Him. Man makes it hard and complicated, but as you can see it is really rather simple. It is a free choice of each and every person to receive or deny God through Jesus Christ.
What Are we Saved From?
For this part I am going back into the Old Testament. The book of Ezekiel has a great reference to the condition of men before Jesus comes into their lives.
Eze 16:5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
Eze 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
God spoke only one word to Jerusalem in these passages. He must only say that Word and a person can then live. God compared Jerusalem to a child being born and cast into a field with the placenta still attached. The baby wasn't washed and was in it's own blood even. This is how all of us are before we are saved. We are in our own filth, but then God speaks a Word to us, (live), and we are no longer dead in our filth and blood.
What Comes Next?
After accepting Jesus' offer of salvation and repenting of your sins, you must follow Jesus. Read the bible on a daily basis, find a church and go there. It is best not to run around to different churches. A tree cannot grow roots if it is moved constantly. Be sure and listen to what God has to say to you. He will lead and guide you, but He will not force you to do anything.
You will grow in knowledge and grace, much like a baby grows and learns as he goes through life.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
PrintShare it! — Rate it: up down flag this hub
Comments
I would love to have this linked to your hub. I would also like tolink your how to find a church hub here, when you get it finished.
What a great piece of wisdom here!
Great hub great advice give him your whole heart
Thank you so much Sweetie Pie for the comment. I am not a wise man at all. I only do what I can.
Commentonthis I appreciate your comments very much. Youy sppke truth when you said we need to give Him our whole heart.
Great hub and I think that you should read my hub Is it a sin if you don't feel bad?. It tackles the subject of sin from a diffrent point of view.
I will read that hub sometime tonight Agro. DOn;t really have enough time at the moment. I appreciate your reading and commenting here.
I have a few questions for you?
If Jesus is God according to you, and Mary is the mother of God, who is the God of Mary?
If Jesus is just another manifestation of the so called father, then where does Mary fit into this, is she a supposed mother or a wife of the manifestations of God?
If Jesus is God, why does he need to pray?
Jesus s the God or Mary. Jesus was in flesh is why he prayed. Mary gave birth to Jesus who is God in flesh.
Huh? So you're saying Mary gave birth to her own God in flesh?
If Jesus is the God of Mary, what is the relation of the so called father of Jesus to Mary?
What is the definition of "God" according to you?
Mary loved God and God chose her to give birth to Jesus.
Can you define everlasting spirit?
Did you ever read these for yourself in the whole contect of the paragraph or the whole chapter. Have you looked into the hustory of the people who wrote the bible? Did someone tell you that this is fact and thatr you just take it all in as they are correct without searching for yourself? Jesus does say something aboutthat. Jesus also said to seek and ask and yu shall find--he didn't say int eh Bible becasue it wasn't written when he was alive. What is Sin? You said it was anythng that goes against god----well making up stories and changing what is in the manuscripts of those scrpts is a sin--so does that make the whole Bible a sin and reading it one too? God said that jealousy and Pride is a sin and he said that in the Ten Commandments----then why when they call him a jealous God isn't that a Sin against himself? I thik Jesus had alot fo good things to say--only people screed them up.
Why would sex and lust and all that stuff be a sin and the flesh be a sin when God gave them to us to cherish--was that a pattern of Satan or the Devil? If one see his thoughts and his body as defiled and evil and full of sin and bad, then it would only go to show that Satan puts that in your minds becasue that would make the rift between God, whom is within all of us, and us bigger. Why would we want that?!
Jesus came to show us that we are Gos as in we are a part of God and therefore we are Gods. He also came to show us that all his laws are within us when we are born in EVERYONE and he didn't stipulate that it was one way over another--it is there and he died to save us from sin(?) to give us slavation---and he didn't say to repeat it over and over again and to convert someone else to how and what another believes. He didn't say control one another--he said Love One Another Unconditionally! for we are one another!
LG, I think you have this hub confused wuth a different hub. I didn't mention lust and sex in this one. I ask you a question though.
Do you have sex with just anybody? I think I already know the answer is no. Why is that? It is because you are committed to your husband. A person must be committed to god in the same way.
I hope this helps you to understand more even though this hub wasn't about anything like that.
By the way, I am not a parrot. I do read my bible on my own. I wouldn't be able to write like this if I didn't. Who the people were who held the pen to write the Bible doesn't matter. They wrote what God told them to write. That's what matters.
That's also where many fail to be able to see who god really is. They believe the messenger should be perfect in every way. A messenger doesn't have to be perfect, he/she must simply deliver the message.
Sex and lust are sins. The begginig of your hub "Before a person can accept Jesus as their Savior and convert to Christianity, he/she must realize that he/she is a sinner in need of salvation. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." suggests any sin.
What is the Glory of God--do you know? Have you seen or touched or experienced it?
I am committed to my husband yes. To God or the Universe, yes. God is everywhere in everything and is everything--you can't take God out of it to put him under a glass and say it is only for those whom one chooses him to be for. God doesn't work like that! He is in everyone---EVERYONE and he has said so many times but those who just want to do the FEAR tactics will tell you that he is only for a few people and the rest will go to hell. God didn't say that! God speaks to everyone in the way that the individual can hear and understand.
Wehn the student is ready the teacher will appear. Love has no boundaries and God is Love and nothing more---nothing like he is said to be in that thar Bible!
He is nothing to be FEARED.
Believe it or not--doesn't matter, but I was exactly where you are at in your spirituality before too!
"Mary loved God and God chose her to give birth to Jesus."
So God chose her to give birth to himself in flesh, according to you? Interesting.
"Can you define everlasting spirit?"
Is that God for you? A spirit? Besides, how is Jesus everlasting? Who is God for you? Jesus or his so called father?
Everlasting spirit means exaclty what it says. Everlasting means it never ends and always was.
Jesu sis everlasting. The body of flesh he wore to the cross was not and still isn't. Those in heaven have different bodies than what we see and feel.
SirDent: I tried this. It didn't have any lasting effect on me. No God spoke to me, no Jesus either. I never thought I was a sinner. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. What you seem to be saying is that I should believe I am a sinner just because a book says I am. A book which was written by many different authors, most of whom didn't even know each other or that their works would eventually be compiled into a volume called the Holy Bible and used as an official religious document.
This seems like a solution to a non existent problem. Would you say that since I detect no sin in my heart, then I have been hardened?
OK Maestro. I have to ask some questions of you. Have you ever lied to anybody before in your life? Have you ever taken anything that didn't belong to you, a pencil, extra change, etc. . .?
I also have a poem for you to read if you want. It is the first one I ever wrote.
I've lied, and I've stolen, yes.
I think you're going to say that those actions were sins. That's ok with me if you say they are sins, but when I examine my heart for sin, I find none. Stealing is a crime against another person, and when I stole I felt guilty. I felt the same way when I lied. It was a bad feeling, and I discovered through my experiences that honesty and integrity yield a much better feeling. I no longer steal and lie, and because of that, I am a happier person. There are many other things in my life just like that. But nowhere along the way did I feel that I was committing a crime against an unseen entity, which some call God, who has set a certain standard that I need to live up to. I don't feel that way at all deep down in my heart. That all seems just like a fairy tale, like leprechauns and unicorns. And I don't understand why so many grown intelligent people believe in it.
There is nothing I can do for you at the moment then Maestro, Until you can see God for yourself, and recognize Him, you will go through your life just as you want.
as will you. It's just sad that you have to go through it with such a negative outlook. Thanks anyway.
Maestrowhit;
I am not sure I understand your reasoning, but let me try to interject. You say that if SirDent calls lies and theft "sin", then you have sinned, according to his definition. The Bible says we all sin, except Jesus. So, we are all in synch.
Also, you say that you examine your heart and see no sin, close? That is just your implying that you do not call theft and lying "sin". Christians call disobedience of God's commands "sin". There are more sins than most people know, far more than ten.
I find it interesting that you say that you no longer lie or steal. That is remarkable, and I am very proud of you. I cannot claim that, and I do try my best. I am also impressed that you feel lousy when you slip up.
To move onto your point that you do not feel God in any of this, I might just say that God is purely about faith. God gave you free will to accept Him or reject Him. Either you have it or you don't. If you do not have faith in God, it does not mean that He is not there. We call Him omnipresent meaning of course that He is everywhere, and He is more than that.
My faith has allowed me to see Him clearly, albeit not physically. For that, I am a happier person. There are powerful messages and promises in the Bible that are all true. I would be a total fool not to worship God with all my heart and all my soul. Maybe you have to let Him in to really see what He will do for you.
Please just consider some things that I have come to know for myself. Jesus is always there to accept you. This was revealed to me in an immensely powerful way. I won't bore you with the story unless you want, though. He did not speak to me at all, just as He did not to you. He spoke to me through the actions of an angel. We have what is called the Holy Spirit in us, though, that is a form of God, too. The Holy Spirit compels my actions, sort of like speaking to me. It is more like clues for me to decipher, though, most times.
I believe that either God is in you or satan. You may resist satan or not. I don't know, but he is a great deceiver. I have seen physically satan or one of his dark angels. Another story not to bore you with. Yes, he was once an angel, so he is powerful.
I hope I did not barge in here, but you seem like a good guy, Maestrowhit.
As to the writing of the Bible, it was written by many people who had the Word of God given to them through divine revelation. Why is that a problem? God could have me or you write a book if He wanted. That has just not been part of His perfect plan, yet anyway.
No, you haven't barged in at all. I'm glad you posted your comment, it's a good opening for me. I am always looking for a Christian with an open mind.
I have come to the point of accepting that the world has a group of people who believe in eternal damnation. These people just believe; they have faith as you say. There's nothing that can refute pure belief and faith. If you are convinced, there is no need for proof or logical verification. But it bothers me. All around me are people who go about their day with the outlook that there is a supreme being judging them; that there is some ultimate standard that they can't possibly live up to, but they must always be conscious of. Furthermore, they think there is an antidote to this being's eternal judgement of their substandard lives, and since they know about it, they are saved, and the rest of everybody is damned.
You see, anybody who was completely convinced of this scenario would seemingly have no choice but to claim themselves a Christian, and try to "follow Jesus." It would fall in line with their natural inborn element of self preservation. If you really believe that you are damned, you're going to do what you can to escape it. It's just natural. Sir Dent said it perfectly: the first step towards following Jesus is to believe you are a "sinner," which to me is different than "law breaker" because it intrinsically means "inevitably damned unless otherwise pardoned by God."
The thing with me is when I look deep into myself, and when I'm as honest as I can be with myself, I simply do not think that I am damned just because I was born a human. I don't feel in danger of some impossible judgement. I don't feel that kind of deep insecurity. But I would have to if I wanted to become a true Christian.
I would have to be that kind of person if I wanted to become a true believer in any religion, cult, following, sect, etc. I would have to believe that I am screwed up, incomplete, and needing. Those kinds of people end up in lives of crime as well; they reach for an answer in anything that offers one.
I want people around me to have a more inclusive, positive outlook, because i myself have one.
I believe that you have had a supernatural experience with Jesus. I believe this because I have had and am still having daily experiences that can only be described as supernatural. All of the wonderful fullness of life that is talked about by Christians, which is supposedly a byproduct of faith in Him, I have all of that. I experience such beauty and fulfillment every day. I think you may experience the same thing I do, only you needed this thing called Jesus to kick it off. The problem with that is although it allows you to have that higher living, it also has a catch. But guess what- the rest of the story about true life, love, and happiness (the kind that I have discovered within me) doesn't have a catch. It doesn't have a dark side where all others who don't see it the way I do are in danger of hell. Hell is a work of fiction. It's an invention of man. If anyone can show me otherwise, then let them, but all they can do is say that they just believe it. That's the only leg that people have to stand on who structure their world view around a system of unseen entities and systems. They just believe. ANd the reason for that is because there is no evidence.
If the word God came into place originally to represent a certain power that is within us (this is what I think) then I can soundly say that what I have just written is the word of God. As is a lot of what I say every day concerning this same subject. I could put in front of it all the words "The Lord said..." and maybe thousands of years from now people will call it a sacred relic from the almighty. The truth is, I have that much confidence in it. And I feel I can relate to the writers of the Bible in that way. I think you can call your words the word of God too. I think anybody could.
Thanks again
Maestrowhit;
Both our stories are common ones. I essentially have heard them both thousands of times.
Many systems work for a while. I should probably take your post point by point and show my opinions of those comments. However, I suspect you could easily do that yourself and most likely have already looked at the opposing side to see how that works for you at this point.
I do not know what road you have traveled, where you are or where you will go. So, again all I can do is relate my story and the feelings I have about faith. Again, all the posts come down to that. Every single thing in your post can be broken down to that. You choose not to believe, so you do not believe. If you choose to believe, then you will. It is exactly that complicated. No stories or arguments will change that simple fact for you.
I predict that you will not be done with this issue easily. As I said, I think that you are either ruled by God or satan. To that end, I do not think you will have the easy time you may think. I may be wrong, but typically it goes that way. Most of us tend to not open up our inner problems particularly if we are trying to defend our choice. We gravitate to others of like beliefs.
As a Christian, we believe that we are far from perfect, but we know what perfect is. We have a standard to measure our actions, beliefs and words by. You cannot improve on that standard. It has been tried for thousands of years. So, I cannot see how you might think you should not be a Christian because you have a better standard.
As a Christian, I know that my future is secure, and that there is a far bigger meaning to everything I do. I do not live for me. Let me tell you what psychologists today agree is the method of being happy. First, help others. Second, live for the moment by turning off your left brain. I am very good at item #1, but I do not need to take away my past and future. I am totally secure in my filthy, miserable past because I am forgiven. Do not think that is easy, though. I know that my future is secure, too. So, I can deal with all my life and future life confidently. Hiding things from oneself is a common problem.
In my dealings with atheists and agnostics, I find the major reason that most people do not accept God is that they feel unworthy because of their sins and shortcomings. I was there, but I was left with nowhere else to turn. So, my darkest day turned into my brightest day. I praise God constantly, but I hope that does not irritate you. It is not intended as arrogant. I do not feel superior to you in any way. I would also caution you not to prejudge Christians as leaning on something because they are weak. We feel that God knew everything before anything was created. Everything! That is to be worshiped. Do not mistake compassion and cooperation for cowardice and foolishness.
No christian believes in eternal damnation, by the way. We are not God, and God gives us rules, not the outcome of them. We work to His standard as best we can. We leave the salvation to Him. We are not capable of it, and we do not try. We just tell the rules and what He promises is the consequence. We do not know His relationship with anyone else.
As to the supernatural, I know what is of God and what is of satan. I have been there. Your supernatural and mine are likely totally opposite, I believe.
Finally, would you want a wife who did not want you? If you were the perfect husband would you want your wife to cheat on you, lie to you and steal from you? You would wnat her to stop all that mess so you two could be really happy. God has a relationship with us whether we want it or not. He is perfect, and He wants us to do the things that can make us good. He tells us that we can choose Him through Jesus or not. If your wife did not choose you, you would eventually tire of it. God made us in His image. If you do not choose to have faith in Him, I am certain you can see how the perfect God will view that.
Thanks for engaging with me in this discussion. Your comments are intelligent and challenging. It's nice that you are interested enough to take the time to write them.
I had to read and reread this comment to pinpoint the things about it that provoked thoughts and objections. Lets see if I can communicate them to you.
First of all, I must admit to you that there is a sneaking tendency within me to regard Christians as being weak and ignorant. I can't deny that. But I can certainly recognize that it arises from my discontentment of the Christian World View, and also from experiences I've had with Christians who did indeed present their faith with arrogance and shortsightedness. It's hard to keep emotions from leading to irrational behavior, but I have gained control in that area, and now I can have respectful conversations on this subject. You have shown me a different kind of Christian than what I'm used to. It’s refreshing. You're right that I will probably not let this line of discussion rest easily.
On a topic that warrants an entirely different discussion, but has a brief application in this one, I will tell you that I do not see how my beliefs are a matter of choice. Yes, with some things, and in some aspects of the definitions of "belief" and "choice," I can see how you could say that one can choose to believe in something. But when you say that I have chosen not to believe in God, I have to conclude that I have no choice in the matter. Like I said, that is a discussion for another day and place. I'd be happy to go into it with you if you are so inclined.
With that said, I'll go on to say that I am indeed defending something, but that something is not a choice that I've made; rather it's a perspective on life and existence with which I was born. Compare me to a person with ordinary sight in the midst of a society of color-blind people. My joy increases when those around me can see the same beauty that I do, and it is difficult for me when those around me dwell in a colorless gloom. I'm not calling you blind, please don't misread; I'm simply making an analogy- and I'm positive that you feel exactly the same way from your point of view. The difference is that I don't believe that those who don't share my views have any real reason for fear and insecurity, but you do believe that. I know that your soul is in no danger, nor is mine, nor is anyone's. My peace and well-being do not rely on a belief structure that necessitates the demise of all who do not share it; yours does.
As for gravitating towards others with like beliefs, the current discussion is evidence to the contrary. A great deal of my passion about this issue spawns from my being completely surrounded by people who do not share my beliefs at all. All the people I interact with on a regular basis are Christians, my wife included.
My standard is that you and I are already perfect. In all of my supposed flaws and perceived shortcomings, I, as a flesh-and-blood human being, am absolutely perfect. There is no justification for shame and degradation, only the invitation from within to accept myself with love, and recognize those around me as being perfect too. It’s a wonderful world to discover. And it’s real.
I’ve had my own darkest day turned to brightest many times over. I believe the life changing experience you describe that roots you so deeply in your faith is exactly the same as mine- different only in the intricacies of our respective identities and lives. The essence of our joyous experiences is common between us. We are two parts of the same life, which is all around us. You call that life God and give it a separate personality.
I have to call you out on your eighth paragraph; you’re being contradictory. In the same statement that you say you don’t believe in eternal damnation, you also talk about salvation from God’s promised consequences. If not Hell, then what consequences are you referring to? What, then, are you claiming to be saved from?
Finally (another citing of inconsistency) you give an illustration of God’s relationship to Man by describing God as having fallible, human-like traits. You mentioned elsewhere that God is perfect and Man is not, then you use my human characteristics as an example of God’s behavior. Aren’t we made in His image- and not He in ours (according to you)? How are we, as vastly imperfect humans, supposed to understand the workings of a perfect God by relating Him to our human tendency to grow tired of showing favor to someone who repeatedly offends us? Isn’t that a sharp contrast to Jesus’ message?
Maestrowhit;
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I am impressed with your handling of this.
I think that my poor word selection and bad writing caused some confusion.
Let me start with the topic of eternal damnation. I know there is a hell. That does not mean that I get to make decisions whether anyone goes there or not. Only Jesus can intervene for God, and I am far from worthy to do that. Maybe it is splitting hairs, as I look on it, because I do think a lot of people will probably go to hell. I hope not, but the Bible is clear that sinners will be in hell, and it is specific what leads to that outcome. God is an angry and jealous God, and He expects us to do our best with what He gave us. Christianity is far tougher than most people think. So, as to your soul, I have no clue except to recite the Bible that the only path to the Kingdom of God is through Jesus, as you already certainly know.
Which leads me to your questions of what I wrote of God. We are made in God's image. While we do not measure up, we share characteristics. There is not much comparison between us, though. I did not mean to sound like we are like him in my analogy. It was simply a logical comparison to illustrate my point. I agree with you that man and God should just not really be compared much at all. It was silly of me. I did not need to use an analogy for you. I cannot comprehend the majesty of God really. The Bible does give me what I need to know of Him, though.
I think that our current issue is about whether faith requires a choice. I believe it does, and you believe it doesn't. What I don't understand is how does someone just get faith without choosing it? I could easily choose to not have faith. In fact, my faith was often tested early on. I had faith, lost faith, regained faith, etc.
I am not certain what you mean by life being very bland around you. Are you saying that Christians are missing out or just failing to enjoy life? I think the opposite is typically true of a real Christian. Perhaps they missed that the Bible commands us to have joy in every moment. God would not ask us to do that if He did not also give us the ability to do it. I fall short, but overall I keep it in mind and do well there.
It was not at all the circumstances that I rested my faith on, since God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. It was me that was changing - and changing my mind. I just think that I have finally stopped those ways of selfishness, in my case.
You question somewhat the character of Christians. While I am not here to stand up for me or any other Christian, I do know that I am far stronger in Him than without Him. So, while I am not trying to win anything, I am more of a winner than otherwise. You seem to think that you are stronger without God. I would encourage you to just discontinue thinking about it. It leads to prejudice if your impressions are fulfilled enough. Remember Christianity is not about Christians. If you think we can measure up to His standard, the Bible says the opposite. It is about the Bible and God. That is why Jesus gave His life is for us to see that He wants to help us where we do fall short. Don't let me mess up what is really good.
Either way, do your best. I sense you have high ideals. If you can make the world a better place, I will love you for it. We sure need fine leaders today.
Do you have something about the Bible or God that bothers you? If it is just us Christians stopping you, then just rise above us and become a leader. If there is something about God or the Bible that bothers you, I would be happy to know.
Before I ponder your comment and respond to it, I'll answer your closing question. It's strangely coincidental (for lack of a better word) that you asked it when you did. I just published a hub that answers that exact inquiry. I do have issues with the Bible; the hub I published examines just one of many. All such issues that I have are not with the text itself, but rather with the application and interpretation of it by Christians. The Bible is a beautiful literary work that has had a more profound effect on the world than perhaps any other volume in all of history. It's a crying shame that an objective Biblical study isn't standard public school curriculum; a lot of misunderstanding might be avoided if it were. If I were able to make any changes in society (as you suggested) putting the Bible in primary and secondary education would be one of them.
Here's the hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Could-it-be-fiction
My reading of your comment spawned many thoughts that need more thinking- good, challenging thoughts. This has been a good conversation so far. I'll be sure to give you a specific response here shortly. Until then, maybe my hub will interest you some. Ta ta
viralprospector:
I believe that what Jesus referred to as the Kingdom of God, or the Kingdom of Heaven, is a state of being that I presently live in. Among other things Jesus said about this state, one of the more popular sayings is “The Kingdom of God is at hand.” I’m sure I don’t need to tell you where to find that, as you are probably very familiar with it already. The key part of the saying is the words “at hand,” meaning available to all right here and now. If Jesus did say that, and if he was speaking of a real thing, then I’m positive I know exactly what he meant by it. It isn’t a kingdom; it belongs to us and it’s right here- not somewhere out in the cosmos waiting for us when we die.
Simply put, concerning your belief in eternal punishment, you believe that anyone who does not fundamentally share your beliefs will be punished with eternal suffering in flames and agony. Is that not accurate?
Life around me is not bland- those aren’t the words I used. I said that the people around me are gloomy. And I’m not talking about everyone around me, and not all the time, but the presence of that gloom is always there somewhere, perhaps lurking down deep inside of everyone I know who is a true Christian. I can sense it and feel it coming off of them. That’s not to say they aren’t lovable, awesome people- they are. But I know why that gloom is there because it used to be in me when I was a child, before I knew how to think for myself.
The gloom is there because, for a Christian what is important is the afterlife, not the life right here and now, because the things of this life are sinful and wrong. The flesh, the self, personal desires, and curiosities- these are shameful. All answers are to be found in the Bible, and if that isn’t good enough, then well, it just isn’t God’s will for you to know; better to just wait it out and die then dare to cast doubt on the Bible. Furthermore, even if the things of this world were permitted to be exalted and glorified, there is no use in doing so because the world we live in is just going to eventually burn in the flames of God’s judgment. Society as a whole isn’t getting better, it’s getting worse. It’s all leading to an eventual demise.
What a horribly negative perspective to have.
On top of all that, though, is the salvation aspect. That is what being a Christian is all about, according to you. It’s not about focusing on the depressing scenario I just described; instead, it’s about focusing on the reality that as a Christian, you are free from all that. And that’s where I can relate and understand because I know what true life and happiness are. I live in the freedom of fear, guilt, and shame. I am secure in my future being safe and wonderful. These are the virtues of Christianity that are showcased the most, and understandably so.
But all of those virtues are in my life to an ever-increasing extent, and I do not believe in Jesus’ resurrection!! The fullness of life is available to you just because you are alive. You don’t have to do anything to achieve it. And the best part is, you don’t have to reject yourself and the world that you live in. You don’t have to go through life with the concept of judgment, punishment and reward, sin, and hell as part of your view of reality. You deserve riches of spirit and life because you are a perfect being, and simply because you exist.
Maestrowhit;
Yes, I beleive the Bible fully. Revelation 21:8 tells that sinners will inherit hell, as does Galatians 5. So I believe it. The location of the Kingdom may be earth, but it is not now. Jesus will return again first. You have clearly not seen the Kingdom of God. It is far different from this, beleive me. Revelation is a good book on that.
Your interpretation of Christians is also faulty and just prejudice. You know few people by comparison, as do I. I suggested you give up that impression or it will be a thorn for you. Think as you wish, though, it will never be anything but totally false and detrimental.
I think we are just down to you holding beliefs now. I really do not need to know what you beleive anymore than you need to know what I believe. You are now telling me what I should believe, and that is no longer productive. I fully admit that you will not change my beliefs. I have had tens of thousands of conversations like these. I did not think we were just trying to convert each other. I thought these were rational discussions myself. You can consider my opinions or not.
Your tone has changed over to accusations that are so absurdely prejudiced that they are far beyond what I can tolerate and continue to dialogue. You could not be more wrong in your assessment of Christians, and the 21st Century of Americans will simply not tolerate your prejudice. If you want that opinion, then you will be hurt deeply by it.
Again, you seem to have aamde up your mind, and you are now just making up absurd impressions to validate faulty opinions. If it was a bad day for you, then no problem, but there is no reason for me not to tell you exactly what I believe.
I thought the discussion was going good. Could you point out to me what is so prejudiced and offensive? Could you show me how I've ventured from the course of the conversation? If you're having a problem, then be specific. It sounds like I struck a nerve, and believe me- it wasn't intentional. As far as I'm concerned, this has been a respectful, intelligent conversation up till the comment you just posted. Please show me where I overstepped my bounds.
It also seems like you are threatening me with what you think my life is going to be like if I continue to do whatever it is you are accusing me of. Let me just tell you, you haven't offended me, even though you're being aggressive and rude. I would like to keep talking. It's helping me understand some things. This really comes as a surprise!
Is there something I said about the Christian faith that isn't true or accurate? As far as I know, everything I said is a real part of the Christian world-view. I ask you, please tell me if I am incorrect. That is, after all, what a "rational discussion" (your words) is supposed to be. It seems like you're getting your feelings hurt and abandoning thoughtfulness.
I'm not trying to convert you or convince you of anything. THis is a discussion about religion involving two people of differing religions. I never once expected you to cross over to my way of seeing things. You knew I wasn't a Christian when you instigated this conversation. Did you expect the two of us to wind up thinking the same things? When you get involved in a discussion with someone whose views oppose yours, the first thing you do should be to leave the emotions at the door. That should be well learned knowledge to you if you've had "tens of thousands of conversations like these."
Your accusations are ill-conceived and superfluous. I honestly don't know what your problem is because you weren't specific. I won't be surprised if you drop out of this, given your present temperament, but if you decide not to, please set me straight on how I was out of line.
Maestrowhit;
Let me detail a few of my many concerns with what you wrote for you:
You say:
"Life around me is not bland- those aren’t the words I used. I said that the people around me are gloomy. And I’m not talking about everyone around me, and not all the time, but the presence of that gloom is always there somewhere, perhaps lurking down deep inside of everyone I know who is a true Christian. I can sense it and feel it coming off of them. That’s not to say they aren’t lovable, awesome people- they are. But I know why that gloom is there because it used to be in me when I was a child, before I knew how to think for myself."
I say; You are very presumptious. Those people may be sad because you are there railing on them about what they believe and making them out to be sad. I don't know that, but your assessment of peoples' sadness is totally absurd. Your next paragraph is a good illustration of that, and I will make my point there.You say; "The gloom is there because, for a Christian what is important is the afterlife, not the life right here and now, because the things of this life are sinful and wrong."
I say you actually think you know Christianity, but you are totally ignorant of it. The Bible says that we are to be joyful in every occasion. I do that to the best of my ability, and true Christians do it. After all, I said I believe the Bible is totally right, remember. If you know half of the Bible, don't try to tell me what it says. You missed this, and that makes you wrong. Nowhere does God say we are supposed to focus on the afterlife and be miserable. Again, you are much more likely to be the cause of these "friends'" gloom than Christianity.
You say; "The flesh, the self, personal desires, and curiosities- these are shameful."
Again, you show that you do not know Christianity, but you want to make accusations against it. You have to know something to make judgements on it. Man is made is God's image. Therefore, there is no shame. Jesus pardons our sins if we repent. True Christians repent, so there is NO shame. Again, your ignorance makes you err. Go red the Bible again with an open mind, this time.
All answers are to be found in the Bible, and if that isn’t good enough, then well, it just isn’t God’s will for you to know; better to just wait it out and die then dare to cast doubt on the Bible.
I say, casting doubts on a perfect document like the Bible would just be a foolish waste of time, and hopefully you will see that, too. What is your point? Do you just want to validate your disbelief?
You say; "Furthermore, even if the things of this world were permitted to be exalted and glorified, there is no use in doing so because the world we live in is just going to eventually burn in the flames of God’s judgment."
I say, again, you are totally wrong. Unrepentent sinners who reject Jesus will inherit the lake of burning sulfer, not me. I help the poor and needy, cast out demons as I can and spread the gospel. You say you are happy, so go be happy. Quit bringing down everyone around you, though. If you were so happy, you could help others do that. I can. Why can't you?
You say, "Society as a whole isn’t getting better, it’s getting worse. It’s all leading to an eventual demise."
All anyone can do is their best, and I think you are not even coming close. You seem to be the anchor, not the leader. You are the negative one. If you want others happy, figure out how real leaders help to make them happy. By the way, what do psychologists say causes happiness in 2008?You say; "What a horribly negative perspective to have."
I say that your perspective is exactly that.You say; "On top of all that, though, is the salvation aspect. That is what being a Christian is all about, according to you. It’s not about focusing on the depressing scenario I just described; instead, it’s about focusing on the reality that as a Christian, you are free from all that. And that’s where I can relate and understand because I know what true life and happiness are. I live in the freedom of fear, guilt, and shame. I am secure in my future being safe and wonderful. These are the virtues of Christianity that are showcased the most, and understandably so."
YOu say you are happy but those around are not. That sounds very selfish to me. Others' sadness makes me sad. I would hardly think gloating about your "happiness" is so good. What great leader does that? By the way, I never said it is all about salvation. We live our lives, and that is what determines our salvation. Your image of Christianity is very immature. You need to learn it before you can judge it.You say, "But all of those virtues are in my life to an ever-increasing extent, and I do not believe in Jesus’ resurrection!! The fullness of life is available to you just because you are alive. You don’t have to do anything to achieve it. And the best part is, you don’t have to reject yourself and the world that you live in. You don’t have to go through life with the concept of judgment, punishment and reward, sin, and hell as part of your view of reality. You deserve riches of spirit and life because you are a perfect being, and simply because you exist."
I think you have some hidden agenda that is of no interest to me. If you want to keep on topic here, fine. I have pointed out over and over again how wrong you are. You just move past that. Prove me wrong first. If you can do that, then I will reply.
Do you not believe that God is going to eventually Judge the Earth with fire?
Do you not believe that the desires of the flesh are sinful and wrong?
You're making this thing personal. You're painting me up to be what you would like to believe I am, but we both know you don't know me at all, nor I you. I'm talking about the subject at hand, you're throwing darts at my character.
I'm not a leader and I never indicated that I'm trying to be one.
Maestrowhit;
Again, I am just replying to you. It's nothing personal to me whatsoever. If your character is separate from your posts, then you may want to consider why that is.
No, you're not just replying to me. You're making assumptions about me as an individual. All I am doing is describing the issues I have with Christianity- not you personally. You have stopped conversing with me and started arguing with me. Can we get back to the discussion? Or do you not have any real content to express?
I mentioned the gloom I perceive in Christians I know. You turned around and accused me of battering them. Come on, do you not have anything to say? Is throwing insults at me the only thing you can do? You have no idea how I conduct myself outside this website. You took offense to my outlook on Christianity as though I was referring to you personally. I wasn't. You see, a real conversation is the exchange of ideas in a linear progression. Once you bring emotions into it, the progress stops.
It seems like you are no longer interested in having a discussion with me. You've come to this same juncture with me on two other occasions. I think you have to resort to name calling and empty accusations because you really don't have anything to say. You just FEEL that you are right. Don't involve yourself in a logical debate if all you have is feeling to go on. Maybe if we were in person you could yell at me and show me your emotions to have an effect. But this is just words on a screen. This is just ideas. Be clear. Stick with the material. If you can't handle my alternate perspectives then bow out and admit it. Stop the slander. I've showed you respect and I will continue to do so because I actually have real content here. Not just a feeling. I actually have something to say. Do you?
Now, if you still want to continue on the original course of the discussion, let's get back to it.
I asked two questions to you in the last comment. They are questions in defense of your claim that I don't know the Christian faith. Can you answer them? I really would like to know what it is you say I'm wrong about in my understanding of Christianity. Can you tell me specifically? Or are you going to continue displaying your emotions and not really saying anything?
Do you not believe that the desires of the flesh are sinful and wrong?
Do you not believe that God will eventually destroy the Earth by judgment with fire?
Furthermore:
Do you not believe that the social order of the world is on a gradual decline towards an inevitable Armageddon?
You say you want to get back on topic? Here's your chance. Take a deep breath, put your accusations aside, and answer my questions. I'm hoping you tell me something I don't know, since you say I am unlearned and immature. If I am indeed unlearned, then tell me how. Why do you need to call me names? That gets us nowhere.
One more thing: you say that you have told me over and over how I am wrong and I've just moved past it. I beg to differ. You haven't given me one clear reasonable explanation of how I've been wrong. If you have, point it out to me. I am perfectly willing to admit that I've missed something. Please stop fighting with me and lets exchange some real content. Tell me again how I am wrong and be specific. Do some research if you have to.
SirDent,
Another great hub from you.
Thank you for sharing God's Word. ~ eddie
Thank you Eddie for the encouraging comments. I really appreciate them.
SirDent,
Our nation was founded on the beliefs you've expressed here. However we have drifted away from them and therefore our nation is very much in need of prayer.
Please join me in praying for our nation.
Good job and yes I agree God is the one who made a way for man to come back and God is the only one who can judge if one does not find there way back!
I ask you to visit my Hub:
http://hubpages.com/hub/thecrosslands
You will see we agree on allot of what your righting talks about!
If I may interject meastrowhit, I believe that when a person chooses to follow Jesus, they become a part of Him. So if someone rejects or insults Jesus, then it is a personal attack on everyone who follows Him. It is wrong to get all emotional though because it is said in the Bible that we are not worthy to take offense because we are already so offensive or something like that.
viralprospector is clearly in the wrong for judging you. It is in the Bible 2 quotes "Judge not lest you be judged" and "vengeance is mine says the Lord".
viralprospector was judging you and was acting quite vengeful. It's not our place to do that. The purpose for reading and memorizing the bible is so we can answer questions and tell others why we choose our lifestyles. You know that roughly 80% of "christians" are hypocrates that make us look bad. I'll attempt to answer your questions from your last post.
Do you not believe that the desires of the flesh are sinful and wrong? - Yes.Do you not believe that God will eventually destroy the Earth by judgment with fire? - Jesus will return to us and there will be 1000 years of peace. After that the leagions of Hell will come and make it so Christians can't buy or sell without rejecting God and accepting the mark of the beast. The earth will soon after be made anew as will Heaven. All those who join the dark side will go to hell and the rest will inherit the kingdom of heaven.Furthermore:Do you not believe that the social order of the world is on a gradual decline towards an inevitable Armageddon? - We are killing ourselves and everything around us but it's impossible for us to bring on arrmageddon since Jesus hasn't come back yet.
These are my beliefs but mostly the words of others. I read a lot and can't remember where it all came from so this is my disclaimer to anyone that thinks I used snippits of their publication. Let me know and I'll change it and don't get bent out of shape.
Have you guys ever heard of William Blake or Neville Goddard?
Do you know the Lord God that you worship?
If you answered yes...then do you agree that YOU are Jesus his son.
Do you know Jesus?
If you answered yes...then do you agree that YOU are God?
Scripture tells us that only the father knows the son and only the son knows the father.
So do you worship an unknown God or one whom you know?
Peter M. Lopez says:
18 months ago
Great advice, SirDent. I am working on a hub right now about how to find a church, and I would like to link to this hub if you don't mind.