I am Embarrassed by my Fellow Americans
69I am getting tired and I am a bit embarrassed by the attitude of my fellow American citizens. They have got to be the most self interested and gullible people on the planet. I have mentioned this before in another hub; the one thing the Republican Party in the United States will always have going for them is their organization. Once the leadership develops a plan it is executed with precision by their rank and file.
Health care is an issue the Republicans were just hoping President Obama would press hard and he played right into their hands; only gay marriage and abortion rights can stir up more emotion than the health care issue. If there is one thing the Republicans can do it’s to play to the short attention span and need for sensationalism in the American public. They also know how to play to American’s enlightened self-interest and their fear.
At this point let me say that I think the president’s health plan needs some work, but I do believe that it is an honest attempt to improve the well being of all Americans. The key to this is improving the well being of all Americans not just me or my family. Thanks to my wife being retired from the federal judiciary, I’ll never have any problem with obtaining health care. It is not special coverage; it is coverage with one of the standard insurance companies and I have no fear that the new plan will somehow undo what we have. I do not have any fear that some federal panel is going to tell my 86 year old mother that she can’t have any more medicine.
I am not really writing on the health care debate; I am not qualified and I don’t understand every aspect of the plan. What this is really about is how easy you can stir up some Americans just by generating a few rumors that the government is going to do something that will directly affect them. I love the equating of the President to Hitler; that was really brilliant. I doubt if Hitler took the time to worry about the less fortunate people suffering in Germany or anywhere else. I loved Barney Frank’s response when a lady asked about supporting a Nazi policy. He told her that he was a gay Jew and then he asked her what planet she was from.
Of all of the yelling in town meetings I didn’t hear one word about the people who are trying to survive without health care. I didn’t hear one word about how the constantly increasing premiums are forcing people to lose health care. I didn’t hear one word about people left to suffer because insurance companies won’t cover preexisting conditions. All I heard was how it would be bad for the specific person doing the yelling and what most of them were saying was just a regurgitation of what they were fed. Not a single person in those meetings spoke for the people that had no insurance. Not a single person put any thought into what would happen if they lost their insurance. Their enlightened self interest was embarrassing.
Sure Americans will stand up proud when they send the military out on a humanitarian assignment. They may even throw in a couple of bucks for a relief effort, but mainly we are a ME society. I heard a doctor this morning explain that the difference between the United States and the other industrialized nations is the other nations started with the given that all the citizens would have health care and went from there. The United States, in all of its support of the individual rights, never considered that. I have a feeling that there was just too much money to be made.
I have a plan that would guarantee that the United States would never participate in another war. Simply pass a law stating that any time that American soldiers are committed in warfare that federal taxes would immediately go up ten percent to pay for the effort. You would never see a member of congress vote for war again.
In all of the rallies against the war during the Bush administration, people carried signs and yelled out slogans against Bush’s policies. The worse attacks on President Bush centered on his competency. The worst thing he was ever called was an idiot. The things these people are saying and the signs they are carrying are horrible. They even attack the president’s children. There were signs advocating violence and people carrying loaded guns to the rallies. If that had been done during the Bush administration Gitmo would have had a lot more residents. I just have to keep telling myself that these are just a handful of Americans and most Americans are not that embarrassing.
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Pete,
Thanks for sharing your perspective, but I wonder why you got frustrated with me when this very morning I was saying some things about ultra conservatives on my hub. My opinion on health care is I would have liked to have seen a single payer model, and I am sad to have seen it watered down to what it has been.
Well written comentary Pete. Misinformation is the catalyst for the spread of ignorance. I think our biggest problem in Washington is the lack of term limits. We have lobbiests that are in the pockets of career politicians. When lobbiests can form decades long relationships on Capitol Hill, how can anything fresh be passed?
You might not be able to change the intelligence of some people, Pete, but you can certainly change their viewpoint on the real facts of politics if only they are willing to listen! Just by writing this hub, perhaps others will take note and wake up! Thanks.
I think you might suffer from a lack of objectivity, but I say this with respect since I like your assessment of the other side of things. Liberals were constantly calling Bush Hitler and Emperor and accusing his supporters of making up votes when it was obvious that after many recounts and liberal tweaking of numbers, he was still president. I can go on. I don't know about loaded guns and like you, I didn't pay much attention to the debate. However, if you heard that a president you didn't like said you would not lose your current health insurance, but that the paperwork made him a liar and you felt that you were going to get downgraded care to replace the insurance that has worked well for you, wouldn't you be yelling? I would.
However, I have no health insurance because I am a student and I don't work enough. I do agree with you that those who are so adamant about not losing their plans, care nothing for those that don't have it. I do support a nationalized healthcare plan, but do we want Americans to run it? No way. The best solution for America is to have healthcare that everyone can access. Similar to nationalized healthcare, the McCain plan would have covered everyone with the same funds diverted to healthcare and preserved the free market / capitalist approach. As it stands, our current plan is atrocious. I pay into the taxes that pay for medical insurance, which is then only provided if my employer feels like it. We do need a real change.
I'm not sure if NH is best, because it puts power in the hands of the government and the more power they have, the more likely it is that it becomes unbalanced and ends up in the hands of fascists. I would love to go to Canada where people are nicer and policies are socialistic. However, freedom of speech is curtailed at the expense of others. Anti-homosexual preaching in your own church can land you in jail. I would rather maintain freedom and encourage compassion than enforce social policies that do benefit people at first, but become a lever of control of the masses for the benefit of the government, (elite).
However, I will add that I believe socialism works in some European countries and if America had a more European thinking population, socialism might work here.
Go ahead and let me have it, I know I stirred it up.
Alexander,
You have some very good points. I am always happy to hear thoughtful ideas. Thanks for taking the time to write.
Pete, You are so on target with your perception that so many Americans just love to complain, formulate opinions, and basically bitch about many things which that are totally in the dark about. It's kind of like all you need to do is mention some issue, any issue, and the most uninformed are typically the ones who bark the loudest. I don't know enough about the health care issue personally, but your hub moves me to learn a little more about what is being proposed. Thanks so much for voicing your opinion, and as always, I love it when you get really passionate about something.. I think I speak for many of your "fans".
I think you war tax is a wonderful idea! And I agree, there are some very self-centered people out there. Great hub
Where to start? How about with your point that you have no concern of your health plan being in danger? Of course your plan is safe, it is provided by tax payer dollars, but what happens to the employee of a private business? If that business is paying taxes for national health care, will that employer continue to offer their employees private insurance? They would be paying twice for the coverage, I don't think many would do that.
You have no concern your mother will be refused medicine? Are you aware that under Canada's National Healthcare, anyone over the age of 67 can't get a heart bypass? Why? Because it is not ecomically feasible, these people aren't gonna live much longer anyway...
You doubt Hitler ever worried about the less fortunate? Well...first came...you guessed it...NATIONAL HEALTHCARE..., then the Volkswagen, and numerous other programs.
I won't even bother with your plan to end US participation in war, except to ask if you really believe the aforementioned Hitler could have been sweet-talked out of his plan for world domination?
Bush never called worse than an idiot? With all due respect, this is the pinnacle of liberal denial. Bush was equated to Hitler daily by the left.
Finally, I really resent your calling me embarrassing, gullible and inferring I am ignorant. That, by the way, is a classic fascist tactic. Just saying...
Pete and others...take a look at this with regard to Canadian healthcare. This was on ABC news:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GMKK_fWKg
I have been listening to many, many town hall meetings all over the country that have been televised. And at ALL of them, I do not believe that ANYONE has said that our system is perfect and that we do not need health care reform.
Just different ways of going about it. Personally I think that reform is do-able but I have given you many reasons in my hubs why I do not want government medical care as my ONLY option. And I am afraid that if the government option is offered instead of all the other things they can do to reduce costs and even subsidize people to get health care plans if they do not have them, that will EVENTUALLY become the ONLY plan.
All that fine print in the bill will make it so over time.
As to wars...we should only engage as a LAST RESORT and get out as quickly as we can. Our brave men and women in the military deserve that and more.
All the people yelling and screaming at town hall meetings do nothing but raise the ire of others and obscure the real issues that need addressing.
You are bound to get loads of comments on this hub.
Pete, upon re-reading my previous comment, I realize it came out a bit harsher than I intended. I admire your writing, but on this issue, I couldn't disagree more. I look forward to reading more of your hubs. Keep up the good work, and, who knows, we may even find we agree on a few things.
Bob
Bob,
I welcome differing opinion. My problem with the people I've seen is that I have seen signs going after the president's wife and his children. I have seen signs advocating violence and people are carrying guns to rallies. This you did not get from liberals and this is all well planned by the machine. The focus of the hub is how people are played.
The problem with health care today is the government itself, and I believe America is waking up and not trusting them blindly anymore. The government does things for themselves at the detriment of the citizens. Example: Americans finally realized they had amassed too much debt and started to live within their means to pay off this debt. This is not good for the government so they confiscate the labor, earnings, and future of your children to keep the illusion going. They reward us with 8500 in tax cuts to plunge ourselves into debt to buy a home that is not worth half of what we pay for it, and will not sustain a family. That’s just what we need. House Bubble number IV with another family in trouble. If taxes are so high we cannot buy a house without the 8500 tax cut, what is the real problem here?
Another government genius decides 4500 cash for cars will jolt people into spending money they don’t have and get them back into debt, squarely where they belong. Slaves to the Federal Reserve paper printers and government. Just what we need. Millions of used cars that struggling Americans could benefit from completely destroyed. Those young Americans that cannot afford new cars, or those Americans with limited means who rely completely on used cars for transportation? The government says they can all walk. Used car prices will increase tremendously with this massive destruction of resource. Instant Inflation and increased debt for America benefits the federal government not the people. If we don’t buy things on credit (our working wages are not enough to feed the monster anymore) the federal government cannot force other countries to buy its debt, and so it cannot fund its war machine to steal resources and labor from the rest of the world. Why would any American wish to place the entire health care system of the United States squarely at the feet of a dysfunctional corrupt government? Medicaid and Medicare working out OK? War on drugs over yet? War on Poverty finished? We could have stamped out world poverty many times over with the money our government has stolen from us to fund itself, its cronies, and its wars.
We have become, at the shame of our government, that which our forefathers threw off just over 200 years ago. We are rulers and oppressors of other nations with fiat currency taped to the end of a battleship. Those nations with resources across the globe are just now beginning to throw off the illusion of the Federal Reserve fiat currency enslaving system. There will come a day when the federal government has stolen its last drop of oil with a piece of worthless paper. Reason for Cap and Trade? When that day arrives we will truly be rid of this out of control government who has destroyed our constitution, our prosperity, and our way of life in less than 1 generation and we did nothing but ask for more free subsidized cheap things and a bigger government that consumes more. This will not be without great pain and suffering. It’s already started for millions who have lost their jobs and homes. No help from our government here. They gave our future earnings to the fiat money printing oligarchy that immediately rewarded themselves with billions of dollars in bonuses that we will have to work off with our labor, and the labor of our children, and we demand more government. How pathetic we have become. Health care may not be such a big issue after all when our enslaved children are starving in the streets. The government wants to run health care because the government needs to confiscate more resources from its citizens because it can no longer steal cheap oil with dollars anymore. Social entitlements, subsidies, and free things for votes works until it becomes unsustainable. After that....
Rockin B,
I don't agree but I must say you do present information that makes me think. From what you are saying there are no real parties that this plan of to enslave us all is driven from a someone controlling all politicians. This sounds like a skull and bones thing.
I agree with Rockin B - our government is completely out of control. And I don't blame one side or the other, but both. Americans are starting to wake up and it's about time. If we see shouting at these town hall meetings it's because people are angry and they've had enough. I can't say I blame them, especially when I hear congressmen and women say that they're going to pass the healthcare bill anyway even though people don't want it because "the American people just don't understand". We don't live in a dictatorship - at least not yet.
And I will never be embarrassed by my countrymen Pete. They are speaking their minds, whether I agree with them or not, as is their right.
If it was their minds it would be different, but what I hear is exactly what the repos told them. In other words than just spat out what they heard and didn't look into it any further.
Bring it on ladies and gents; this is what keeps us all strong.
Pete,
I could not agree more. In simplest terms, the subject of the rant makes all the difference. If you have people rallying and protesting to end an unjust war, is that self-centered? No. If you have people rallying and protesting that they don't want their health benefits messed with, is that self-centered? Yes. Not to mention naive.
What part of "You get to keep your existing care and doctor relationships if you want to" do these people not understand?
You are sooo right about the people who yell and scream because they heard Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin even say some soundbite (Obama is the new Hitler, death panels, etc.). It doesn't take a college education to see that insuring more Americans WILL lower the cost for everyone because the risk gets spread much farther. Hello? Am I the crazy one here?
Anyone who says the problem with the current healthcare system is the government is only 1/2 right. Shame on the government for not regulating the insurance industry closer. The profits these companies are allowed to make -- similar to the oil companies -- at the expense of American citizens -- is obscene.
Loved what you said about other industrialized nations starting with the premise that everyone deserves healthcare and working from there.
It seems to me we are seeing an erosion of our rights. Used to be Americans could find decent paying jobs and afford to buy their own homes. Their employers could afford to offer benefits including health insurance. NONE of that is true anymore.
And who got us into this place? Was it Bill Clinton??? Hmmmm, must have been. Because, as we all know, Bush was an exemplary president who kept us safe from the big, bad terrorists and what's really most important in life?
Sorry -- started on my own rant. I will stop now!
I love a good debate where eveyone sticks to the issue. We have a smart bunch here.
I love a good debate where eveyone sticks to the issue. We have a smart bunch here.
Sir;
A Well written hub on a poor premise. I am more embarrassed by you being embarrassed than for the issues or debate in progress. If you delve in to our political history you will find that the public debate in this country has been much more "cruel and unusual" in the past than it is now. Additionally, much of the rhetoric could well have been avoided had the House produced a better bill than HR3200. It is so poorly done that it generated much of the misinformation by being so open to interpretation and blatantly political on its face; and no one came forward to try to explain it until it was too late. Let's hope the Senate can do better.
Really well written and interesting hub Pete. I have to say I agree with you 100%. Coming from a different culture where society aims to care for the many rather than just the individual/business, I find it hard to comprehend how people would not want that. It's what civilisation and therefore being civilised is all about.
Pete Maida, have you considered that the more health care we receive, the sicker we get? Populations that don't have access to modern health care are by and large healthier, in the sense of being hardier. So while each of us wants to be taken care of when we are sick, and it may be a good thing for the individual at the time of his illness (or not), it is actually bad for the population as a whole. Health care is like candy. We may crave it, it but it's not good for us.
I noticed your novels at the bottom of the hub? Have your written a hub about each of them? I would be interested in reading about them!
Aya,
I tend to agree that Americans are quick to look for a pill but there are serious problems that many people suffer with. Thank you for your interest in my novels. I have a synopsis and the first four chapters of 500 Years From Home here. I also have the short story series The Solarian Defense Directorate here and the Novella Graytech. Please let me know what you think of any of the fiction that you read.
Pete
There is cause for all of us to be embarrassed, but not simply for the ones that you cite.
As for Heath Care, the real problem is not going to be cured by a NHS. The quality of health care is the core of the problem. Drug companies don't find cures, they find treatments. Health insurance companies practice medicine without a license, when they limit the treatment available to their insured. There are too many medical specialists and too many named diseases that require special medication. The side effects of prescription drugs in many cases rival those of direct effects from illegal drugs.
Aside from the health care quality issue, the Congress and the Government workers have the most expensive health care and it is paid for by the people. If there is a NHS, they will exclude themselves from being a part of it.
If the NHS is not good enough for them, then it is not good enough for the people. On the other hand, if the people can afford to pay for the healthcare of the Congress and government workers, then Congress can pay for the same healthcare for the people.
I am disappointed that people think voting for Row A or Row B is an intelligent process for electing politicians. In addition, that they also think that one party is doing better than another party for helping the people. Neither of these statements are true and I believe it is one of the root causes of today's pathetic conditions.
The size of the government increases every year and the tax burden is looking like a pyramid scheme that must collapse at some point. Private businesses have called it quits, downsized or our limping along and this put millions of people out of work. At the same time, the size of the government workforce has actually increased.
The debt of giving trillions by the last and current Congress is going to be a tax burden for at least the next decade.
My point is that there are larger and much more important issues than those selected in your hub.
People that vote Row A or Row B instead of voting for the best candidate are just drones and pawns in the chess game of politics.
I would agree with your concept of easily manipulated people. The media is instrumental in motivating their viewers to a cause that is selected by the media.
Independent thinkers are rare today, and possibly on the endangered species list.
The current unrest is the expression of democracy and energetic participation in the system, Instead of being embarrassed you should be proud. By the way to suggest that "liberals" don't engage in activities such as carrying hate signs is not only naive but false. There are idiots on both sides of the issues that don't know how to debate without getting ugly. Having said that, voicing our opinions is our right. The problem is this administration can't take criticism or debate.
I did a bad job or checking my words and I can't edit them.
our s/b are for example.
I did a bad job on checking my words and I can't edit them.
our s/b are for example.
Duck,
I can understand why you would think I vote a party line. The fact is that I don't. I do look at the candidates on their merrits; especially on the local level. I will and have voted for Repbulicans and Independents, but in general I fall on the Deomcratic side.
Thanks for the information. I am getting an education through this hub.
breakfastpop,
I do believe this president faces criticism a lot better than the former president. I am proud when people speak their minds, but what I heard were people just repeating sound bites from others and clearing stating that it was all about them.
Many Americans are as you say self centered. Only in the way that they want to protect our country. There has never been a group of people in history that did as much to help the poor around the world as the U.S. We also didn't get to be so prosperous by invading and taking from others. We are able to help so many because of the success of the capitalist system, that allows people to be as successful as they can be.
If you look at the aid given to others by the U.S. and compare it to other countries, you will see that the U.S. is far above everyone else. And the other large powerful countries in the world, China, Russia, India, are not even on the list in aid to other countries.
The Heath care and health insurance systems need to be fixed I agree. Having the government take over is the worst way to fix it. It would take away so many of our freedoms and make us something much less than we are now, and change this country forever. It would affect all the poor countries we give money to help also in a negative way.
I've dealt with countless self-centered Americans who only think about themselves. You see them everywhere, you really do.
But here's the thing, I also know plenty of Americans who are kind and caring about others.
The only problem is that it seems sometimes that it's the ones who are more ignorant overall that carry this kindness, much like my mother-in-law (whom I actually like a lot), and I'm in no way trying to make a joke or put her down; it's just that she's one of the nicest people I know, and she remains ignorant of a lot of the issues in society. It's a somewhat disturbing trend.
The good points keep rolling in. Thanks to everyone.
There is only 1 party in this country and it's money. If you keep people arguing you can avoid any real progress. Healthcare is just a distraction tactic. Just today I read a report from the FDIC that says 1 in 4 banks lost money in Q2. So how do you keep this under the radar? You distract.
Another good point; thanks Mike.
I just find it interesting that the majority of those against health care reform continue to spout off that the government wants to control everything. Time and time again, Obama has stated that if they are happy with their health care, they can keep it. Obvously, they don't hear him - or obviously choose not to. Meanwhile, those right-wing nut jobs like Rush Limbaugh and the talking heads at Fox News continue to stir up their flocks by propagating any and every fear tactic they can muster.
I just think this whole health care debate is rather ironic, considering it's been the far right party that have always seemed hell-bent on wanting to control everything. Has there ever been a party more self-serving and indifferent to the needs of others?! I'm saying that as a registered Republican, by the way. You talk about being embarrassed for your fellow Americans, Pete? I know what you mean!
But, like you mentioned in your hub, the Republican party is very good at rallying their troops, you have to give them credit for that. It's just a sad and scary thing to see, knowing that it's preventing genuinely needy people from getting the health care they deserve.
I do try to be open minded when I vote, but in general the Repubican platform seems to center the policy of "I've got mine, screw you."
It is amazing the reactions that are going on over this debate. In my area many are talking crazy about revolution. This is a hot topic that will not be going away any time soon.
That's what I mean about embarrassing. How can someone call themselves and American and advocate revolution. There has to be more to that than this issue. I hope they calm down.
Great Hub... Good to read after reading the hub entitled "Hitler is alive and well in our white house". This one gives me hope that there are SOME sane people in this country. After that other one which made me both laugh and puke a little bit on the inside.
Wow someone actually wrote a hub like that? I won't look for it; I wouldn't want to give the writer a view.
Hey Pete, Great Hub! Lots of good comments. I think healthcare reform is coming, I don't think government control is the right direction. I also don't believe we can afford to support illegal aliens and those who choose not to work for their benefits. The 'Great American Give-away' has got to stop. If you don't contribute to our sociaty you shouldn't share in it's bounty.
We need radical change in our foreign policy, no more free security from the bad guys fight your own fights. Remove troops and bases from countries that charge us rent and criticize our policies. Let our trading partners set the tariffs and then offer them the same deal. American companies that out-source jobs pay the same tariffs. No government aid to any country, they don't have any money, let our charitable organizations handle charity foreign and domestic. Close our borders. If these issues are handled correctly we could probably have the money for a new healthcare plan.
How about Americans take care of Americans? Hell, a large portion of the world don't even like us! Did you hear what those loving Mexican neighbors of ours were chanting at a soccer match? We have to wake up, we look like a bunch of stooges!
If another group of idiots from any country attack us, we don't have to play nice and we don't need to waste the money we need for healthcare. We can handle it from here. Then maybe the innocent citizens of those affected countries will take care of their own bad actors. If they refuse let them know what real terror is.
Ok, now thats how you get your money! Now do any of you PC liberals got the balls to do it? I doubt it.
You have a full platform to run on here and you would likely get a lot of support. I don't think we're quite ready to go it alone in this world, but you do make a lot of good points.
Pete healthcare is going to cost a fortune! We can't pay for everything, for everybody! Something is going to have to give! Look , liberals don't like military spending anyway so why not reduce the overhead? We don't have to put American lives into danger. We are quite capable of handling it from here. Simplifing our response will save a whole lot of funds. Countries should pay for the protection we offer, we have to! Pete do we want healthcare for Americans, because it's the right thing to do, or do we really want a United States of Europe?
Who are Skull & Bones? (kidding) If I may rant more on your hub,
We Americans just have different opinions on the role of government, and the intent of this government.
Some believe a government knows better than they how and where to spend resources from their labor. I believe resources from my labor are better spent by me than a government.
Some believe that Billions of dollars in resources from their labor is best used as foreign aid to dictating warlords in Africa so they can buy weapons to kill each other with. I believe our government should stay out of Africa and keep resources from my labor out of it too.
Some believe resources from labor are best used for sending Billions of dollars of food to Africa every year. I believe that when a man in Africa no longer has to work to provide sustenance for his very life he is free to use his time doing other things, perhaps using all those weapons we bought them to kill and plunder his neighbors. I also believe that left to their own devices, the good people of Africa will find a way to survive and flourish on their own without our meddling calamities.
Some believe that resources from labor are best used by the government to go to Afghanistan to destroy human beings. I believe that people in Afghanistan have been killing each other for thousands of years and they don’t need my resources or our troops to help them continue it.
Some believe that resources from labor are better used subsidizing corporate agriculture to dump millions of gallons of chemicals in our soil and transport food thousands of miles to market. I believe that local food production by family farms without government intervention is healthier for our children, our environment, our land, it uses a fraction of the resources, and it is sustainable.
Some Keynesians believe that building a 200 ton tank and sending it to Iraq to control a nation’s oil or be destroyed in war is a better use of resources from their labor. I believe that 200 ton tank should be sitting at Camp Lejeune North Carolina or along our border waiting to protect America.
Some believe that resources from their labor are better used to support a government in making laws that benefit groups over individual citizens. I believe that groups are not the holders of individual rights and therefore should have no financial or political sway over members of Congress to make laws that benefit themselves and trample the Individual Rights of the individual citizen. No group should ever sway the law for its own benefit.
And now some believe that Americans have the right to Health Care, granted by government, because government is now bankrupt and trying to save itself by lying to us about reform. I believe that American’s rights are granted by life itself and government should have been chained to the boundaries of the Constitution where it belonged in the first place. Groups have no special rights to anything that plunders another. This is a violation of Justice.
The main flaw is that some believe the illusion that our government is by nature good. At one time it was the most perfect form of government the world had ever seen. It left us to our own devices with the rule of law and we flourished in the unchained free civil society we created for ourselves.
Since man is a plunderer by nature and always striving for easier ways to obtain more, the men in our government over the last 75 years have become rich with fiat currency and power because we have allowed them to roam freely outside the boundaries of our Constitution. We have allowed them to abandon the rule of law and implement their own rule of men to grow rich at our detriment. They have created classes of people and have pitted these people against each other. They create turmoil for personal gain. They pit Citizen against Citizen, taking from one and giving to another. This is the rule of man outside our Constitutional Limits. This is unsustainable as we can all now witness. Our government has created entitlements and rights out of thin air where none existed before to justify its existence and gain power & wealth by vote, against the natural rule of law. Citizen over Citizen. Plunder over Property Rights. Slavery over Liberty. Tyranny over Freedom. Campaign Contributors over Individual Citizens. Personal Beliefs over Justice. The rule of man over the rule of law. This illusion of entitlements to avoid revolution by an enslaved society they grow rich from.
Men in government gain these riches from the labor of better citizens than they while maintaining the illusion they are doing good deeds for us all. One would have to believe these men are all living in poverty the way they dole out goods and services to the huddled masses. These politicians have become the ruling class and are wealthy beyond belief from the plunder of Americans and they have bankrupted us all along the way to their riches. Government produces nothing so there is a confiscation or taking of something before their can be a giving.
Our government grows massive consuming everyone in its path until it cannot be sustained by the labor and resources of its citizens. It then must plunder other nations and it does.
We the people of the United States have become lazy with the freedom our forefathers gave us and have unleashed the most powerful government the world has ever seen to do as it wishes with life itself. Our constitution places limits directly on the federal government of the United States so we may avoid just such a disaster put upon us again. We must choose the rule of law over the disastrous rule of government and chain it, as it was chained at its founding. Otherwise, this country has become the very tyrants we fought to gain independence from. We have allowed our government to replace the Empire of the King of England as the new world ruler and now we mark time until another nation yearning to be left alone will overthrow our tyranny and we will forever be shamed in history by our selfish tyrannical inactions. Or we could put an end to it. All we have to do is stand up.
well written hub
Kent Merritt says:
"Time and time again, Obama has stated that if they are happy with their health care, they can keep it. Obvously, they don't hear him - or obviously choose not to"
----------------------------------------------------
Its not that I didn't here, its the fact that i believe that claim to be a bold faced lie.
Pete you seem like a decent guy don't get sucked into something that will be an embrassment to our whole country. We can't pay for it and there just isn't enough rich to make much of a difference. We can be socially responsible here or we remain the defender of freedom in the world. We can't do everything.
Pete, I'm a self-employed, uninsured woman who was in a not very enjoyable car accident over two years ago. My auto coverage lasted about nil after the hospital bills were paid. Sure, I wasn't at fault and some day in the distant future I'll be reimbursed for the maxiofacial surgeons, neurologists, dentists, etc. So I'm here to tell you, yes, I'd like some health care reform. But not this way, and not without a lot more deeper thought put into it. I'm neither Dem nor Rep but a Libertarian, but honestly, since Obama took office there have been too many things pushed through too fast and I fear that we will ALL pay for it in the future.
Pete, I like many of your points. I think health care for all is a moral issue - the true death squads are the insurance companies and the big pharma! We have a situation where health is a "for profit industry." It is not about serving society and the people. Why are we the only western democracy without a public option or health care for everyone? It is not complex - it's because both the Republicans and the Democrats are funded by these industries - they are in the pockets of corporations. I voted for Obama and thought he would fight for what is right, but I see him caving into the status quo. If the Democrats don't do the right thing, I'm done voting!
Health care provision is a luxury, not a right of each citizen of our great United States.
And, seeing how I successfully raised a family of 18 without government intervention - I can tell you emphatically that both parties create these agendas just to "one up each other in power and position."
Nonsense. I love what God says about it all... "If a man will not work then, he will not eat."
We just can't carry everybody. Its not possible.
We just can't carry everybody. Its not possible.
Pete,
Even though I disagree with most of your points, you've got to see where many people are coming from. While growing up I would have called myself a progressive, but as the years went by I started looking at the major questions that divide the two sides of the aisle.
In simplest terms possible, One side believes that government can run anything efficiently, and the other side wants limited government.
I believe that We need the government for our national defense and to protect our first and second amendment rights. Other than that the government does not have an expertise in anything.
I pose to you this premise
A CEO of a company knows better than anyone how to run his business. If he is a criminal the government has the power to punish him.
If the government takes over the company in place of this CEO, what happens if they destroy the company? Who punishes them? Who saves the company, If the government has scared all other qualified candidates from taking over that CEO position? How is the government going to run a company, they know nothing about, when there are a bunch of qualified candidates out there. The congress has bullied every business owner who has come to Capital Hill to answer questions, because THEY (the majority party) ARE ANTIBUSINESS. They want the government to run everything.
My premise is that most of the government bureaucracy can not run their own lives. Half of the president's current cabinet had tax problems, but because the political scale swayed so much to one side, they received no investigation.
The government is also spending our money on what they call a stimulus plan, and what I call pork barrel spending loaded with earmarks. Obama said that he wanted to change the policy of the previous administration and there would never be a single earmark. This was a flat out lie that no mainstream media outlet ever covered. What kind of a world are we living in when the media of the United States of America behaves like a propaganda machine.
This is the frustration of the American people. There are too many people out there who refuse to acknowledge anything this guy does is wrong. The most pathetic thing I saw was Jeneanne Garafolo go on MSNBC and call all the tea party people racist rednecks, with Keith Obermann applauding her.
I want change in Healthcare like many other people, for the people who can't afford it, but we don't have to overhaul the entire system for this.
Oh, and I forgot one more thing. The health care system will not apply to the members of Congress. They have unlimited lifetime benefits paid by the taxpayers (ALL OF US)
Spot-on hub. It's disappointing to read all these diatribes against nationalized healthcare, because that was not the point of your hub. It is the fear-mongering and sensationalist lies that are being spread to scare the population into turning down an important step for the United States.
I am also ashamed -- and certainly NOT proud -- of fellow Americans who are shouting meaningless dribble at these meetings like a lynch mob. I am proud of fellow Americans who are making intelligent, rational arguments for and against it.
Great Hub, Pete and, as an outsider, it has restored my faith in the US.
All of the comments on here, whatever the opinion or political persuasion, are built upon careful thought and reasoning, rather than short-sighted rhetoric. I have no opinion on US healthcare, but I am following this discussion with interest.
I hope that you no longer feel ashamed to be American :D
The people that have taken their time to write comments on this hub make me proud. All of the comments for and against are considered logical and respectful. My thanks to you all.
I too have healthcare, Tricare Prime, because my husband was retired from the Air Force. This plan is administered by private insurers, not the federal government. Though I can sit back and not worry about the millions of Americans who do not have healthcare, I do support healthcare for all and am appalled by those who do not care if their neighbors live or die as long as they have theirs.
I find it interesting that, in all the polls, they say 85% of Americans are happy with their current insurance plan. Well, is that really the right question? That poll automatically disqualifies those who do not have healthcare at all from answering.
The rich already have a good insurance plan, they can afford it. The poor have one of the best plans there is out there: Medicaid. That one includes free dental insurance, which mine does not. When people post ignorant remarks that people are too lazy to work so they shouldn't get insurance and other remarks of that ilk, it just makes me furious. The only people in America who do not have good access to insurance are the working middle class.
Anyone notice a trend in recent years of companies to offer less than a 40 hour "full time" work week? Many companies are doing it specifically so they do not have to offer these employees benefits like health insurance. What about all the hardworking people who are now unemployed thanks to the reckless disregard of the economy by the last administration? The hard working folks who are the backbone of America deserve more than they are getting. They cannot afford $800 per month premiums. A short trip to the emergency room is financially crippling.
I was shocked recently to receive a bill from the city in which I am visting for $825 for an ambulance ride to the hospital. Of course, with my good insurance, I only have to pay $25, but what about all those people who do not have insurance? Are they to decide that their lives are not worth $825 and forego the medical help?
I am also ashamed by this, Pete. For those people shouting revolution, I will remind them that is treasonous. For those shouting down the citizens who are trying to get answers from elected officials at town hall meetings, it is unpatriotic. A civil society is the backbone of our country and law and order must prevail.
Ralph Deeds posted this link on another hub that is very interesting. It is an interview with a former executive from Cigna and very eye opening. For all those who are against healthcare reform because of the propaganda they have been listening to, this is very important to watch:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.h
Interesting hub and some really great comments. I have to say I disagree with most of your points. Bottom line, this country cannot afford to tackle a health care overhaul at this point because of our economic problems. Something does need to be done, but the White House is either blantantly lying, or they don't understand their own bill. Obama has said certain things are not there but they really are. He sure seems to be condescending when questioned, he cannot take criticism. As I have said before, let the legislators use this new system that they want for us first. Of course, that would be a huge benefit cut for them so they wouldn't consider it. They only want all of us to change. I know healthcare is expensive, but NOBODY is ever turned away from a hospital ER--by law they must treat you. The reason many of these people are not insured is because they don't want to be. It is easier to complain and wait for big brother to step in. Insurance is costly, but it is more costly to go without. My husband is a type 1 diabetic, so my family has many medical expenses, and he won't ever not have this disease. We both attended college and became teachers so we do get coverage. His diabetes was pre-existing from the age of 13, and we have insurance coverage that pays many of these expenses. I don't know the right answer, but Obamacare is NOT it!!!!!!
I have truly been considering all of the great comments I have been getting. My mind is not closed on this issue and I am getting an education.
President Obama is not lying when he says that you can keep you coverage but it may be talling a lawyer's truth. What he is saying is that the government will not force you away from your coverage and that is true. He cannot guarantee that you employer won't change the coverage once the system changes so the President cannot really tell you for sure that you will keep you health care.
That being said I still think this is the time to do something. Think of it this way. If someone without insurance as the Black Plague and keeps coming to work because he or she has no choice what do you think is going to happen? Getting health care to people who need it may save of all. It may not be the plan that the president describes but we cannot let this effort end by going back to pretending it is alright.
Good hub Pete. And I admire your patience as well.
Pete those are fair comments and you definatly have a point. I just don't see how we can afford it and our government doesn't have any money. We can't pay for illegal aliens politically correct or not. For national healthcare everyone has to pay for it to work and we know there will be freeloaders look at the wellfare system. Good Hub Pete.
Where ignorance is bliss, t'is a folly to be wise. America is the most important and exciting country to live in. I am glad to be American and will never forget it. We are supposedly the most advanced and literate country on the Globe. We exhibit compassion, humanity and tolerance even though that is still part of the evolutionary struggle we are undergoing. As many of you have pointed out, we give this much and that much all over the world. We love our freedoms and independence and sovereignty. Our way of life is not rhetoric but reality. We consider ourselves a highly developed civilization which takes care of its own. We have fought countless wars and tried to help where we can. We have made mistakes internationally and locally, but I do not think we want to leave a historical legacy of having become very shallow, naive, ignorant and divided civilization. It seems some people along the way, and in the changes of history, have let change leave them behind and forgotten what it really means to be American. Human history should not point at our inability to fine-tune civilization henceforth. We are a young civilization that is still growing and we need to understand what it is that makes Splendid civilization sparkle in the annals of history. It is not about being mean and stupid about our weaknesses. We need to Produce, invent and develop our way into the 21st century. We need to build our bridges and re-equip them, our infrastructure, trains, schools, houses, health arts, entertainment and so on. Of-course, empty cans make the most noise, and barren of ideas and solutions. We are getting beat by China, India and other developing economies in the so-called Third World Countries. Our media is dis-informing us and we still do not get it. We believe Cable media's talking heads. It would seem we have been reduced to mediocrity. Our arrogance and ignorance(most of us who are) does not mean everybody is, but simply means the main talking point are those that do not contribute to the Public Good. A healthy country is a powerful country. A producing and manufacturing country is a is a model the world would like to emulate. It is cheap to talk as if ones view is the ultimate point in the land. We have to do better and most of all we need to re-invent our American spirit of inventing spirit, freedom, hard work, compassion, leader of the world and economic giant. The America that is showing its face during Obama, shows lack of disrespect for our democracy and ignorance of what America is,can be and should be. Our image internationally has been tarnished, Obama has restored it. We are now showing the world how intolerant we are. We make Ahmedinejad very Proud and all those tin-pot despots very happy when we carry guns to a presidential Townhouse meeting; when we display to the world that we do not respect our leader, and we call him Hitler, Socialist, racist. It is not the world saying this, it is US. How can we expect to be any safer when we show the world that we are an unruly, ignorant and belligerent gun-toting nation with no respect to law and order and the constitution. Say what you like but that does not mean when you shout 'fire'! in a movie theater does not make it Freedom of speech. We cannot keep on thrashing our president, disrespecting our democracy and constitution and pine for a civil war and expect that we will remain the Leader of the Free world. We have a lot of people homeless, jobless, no health care, crumbling infrastructure, closing factories and uninhabited houses, failing schools, expensive and overcrowded houses, and hope with all that we can boisterously claim superiority and high culture. We need to avoid becoming "nattering-nabobs" with arcane ideas and woefully ignorant utterances splurged all over the datasphere. Health coverage for all- a healthy country is a strong country. Jobs and education for all- a knowledgeable and hard working country is the ideal I would like to see US strive for. Sound and new infrastructure will make everyone around the world want to live or visit our country. We are far much more better that mediocrity displayed in some comments above
Where ignorance is bliss, t'is a folly to be wise. America is the most important and exciting country to live in. I am glad to be American and will never forget it. We are supposedly the most advanced and literate country on the Globe. We exhibit compassion, humanity and tolerance even though that is still part of the evolutionary struggle we are undergoing. As many of you have pointed out, we give this much and that much all over the world. We love our freedoms and independence and sovereignty. Our way of life is not rhetoric but reality. We consider ourselves a highly developed civilization which takes care of its own. We have fought countless wars and tried to help where we can. We have made mistakes internationally and locally, but I do not think we want to leave a historical legacy of having become very shallow, naive, ignorant and divided civilization. It seems some people along the way, and in the changes of history, have let change leave them behind and forgotten what it really means to be American. Human history should not point at our inability to fine-tune civilization henceforth. We are a young civilization that is still growing and we need to understand what it is that makes Splendid civilization sparkle in the annals of history. It is not about being mean and stupid about our weaknesses. We need to Produce, invent and develop our way into the 21st century. We need to build our bridges and re-equip them, our infrastructure, trains, schools, houses, health arts, entertainment and so on. Of-course, empty cans make the most noise, and barren of ideas and solutions. We are getting beat by China, India and other developing economies in the so-called Third World Countries. Our media is dis-informing us and we still do not get it. We believe Cable media's talking heads. It would seem we have been reduced to mediocrity. Our arrogance and ignorance(most of us who are) does not mean everybody is, but simply means the main talking point are those that do not contribute to the Public Good. A healthy country is a powerful country. A producing and manufacturing country is a is a model the world would like to emulate. It is cheap to talk as if ones view is the ultimate point in the land. We have to do better and most of all we need to re-invent our American spirit of inventing spirit, freedom, hard work, compassion, leader of the world and economic giant. The America that is showing its face during Obama, shows lack of disrespect for our democracy and ignorance of what America is,can be and should be. Our image internationally has been tarnished, Obama has restored it. We are now showing the world how intolerant we are. We make Ahmedinejad very Proud and all those tin-pot despots very happy when we carry guns to a presidential Townhouse meeting; when we display to the world that we do not respect our leader, and we call him Hitler, Socialist, racist. It is not the world saying this, it is US. How can we expect to be any safer when we show the world that we are an unruly, ignorant and belligerent gun-toting nation with no respect to law and order and the constitution. Say what you like but that does not mean when you shout 'fire'! in a movie theater does not make it Freedom of speech. We cannot keep on thrashing our president, disrespecting our democracy and constitution and pine for a civil war and expect that we will remain the Leader of the Free world. We have a lot of people homeless, jobless, no health care, crumbling infrastructure, closing factories and uninhabited houses, failing schools, expensive and overcrowded houses, and hope with all that we can boisterously claim superiority and high culture. We need to avoid becoming "nattering-nabobs" with arcane ideas and woefully ignorant utterances splurged all over the datasphere. Health coverage for all- a healthy country is a strong country. Jobs and education for all- a knowledgeable and hard working country is the ideal I would like to see US strive for. Sound and new infrastructure will make everyone around the world want to live or visit our country. We are far much more better that mediocrity displayed in some comments above
Where ignorance is bliss, t'is a folly to be wise. America is the most important and exciting country to live in. I am glad to be American and will never forget it. We are supposedly the most advanced and literate country on the Globe. We exhibit compassion, humanity and tolerance even though that is still part of the evolutionary struggle we are undergoing. As many of you have pointed out, we give this much and that much all over the world. We love our freedoms and independence and sovereignty. Our way of life is not rhetoric but reality. We consider ourselves a highly developed civilization which takes care of its own. We have fought countless wars and tried to help where we can. We have made mistakes internationally and locally, but I do not think we want to leave a historical legacy of having become very shallow, naive, ignorant and divided civilization. It seems some people along the way, and in the changes of history, have let change leave them behind and forgotten what it really means to be American. Human history should not point at our inability to fine-tune civilization henceforth. We are a young civilization that is still growing and we need to understand what it is that makes Splendid civilization sparkle in the annals of history. It is not about being mean and stupid about our weaknesses. We need to Produce, invent and develop our way into the 21st century. We need to build our bridges and re-equip them, our infrastructure, trains, schools, houses, health arts, entertainment and so on. Of-course, empty cans make the most noise, and barren of ideas and solutions. We are getting beat by China, India and other developing economies in the so-called Third World Countries. Our media is dis-informing us and we still do not get it. We believe Cable media's talking heads. It would seem we have been reduced to mediocrity. Our arrogance and ignorance(most of us who are) does not mean everybody is, but simply means the main talking point are those that do not contribute to the Public Good. A healthy country is a powerful country. A producing and manufacturing country is a is a model the world would like to emulate. It is cheap to talk as if ones view is the ultimate point in the land. We have to do better and most of all we need to re-invent our American spirit of inventing spirit, freedom, hard work, compassion, leader of the world and economic giant. The America that is showing its face during Obama, shows lack of disrespect for our democracy and ignorance of what America is,can be and should be. Our image internationally has been tarnished, Obama has restored it. We are now showing the world how intolerant we are. We make Ahmedinejad very Proud and all those tin-pot despots very happy when we carry guns to a presidential Townhouse meeting; when we display to the world that we do not respect our leader, and we call him Hitler, Socialist, racist. It is not the world saying this, it is US. How can we expect to be any safer when we show the world that we are an unruly, ignorant and belligerent gun-toting nation with no respect to law and order and the constitution. Say what you like but that does not mean when you shout 'fire'! in a movie theater does not make it Freedom of speech. We cannot keep on thrashing our president, disrespecting our democracy and constitution and pine for a civil war and expect that we will remain the Leader of the Free world. We have a lot of people homeless, jobless, no health care, crumbling infrastructure, closing factories and uninhabited houses, failing schools, expensive and overcrowded houses, and hope with all that we can boisterously claim superiority and high culture. We need to avoid becoming "nattering-nabobs" with arcane ideas and woefully ignorant utterances splurged all over the datasphere. Health coverage for all- a healthy country is a strong country. Jobs and education for all- a knowledgeable and hard working country is the ideal I would like to see US strive for. Sound and new infrastructure will make everyone around the world want to live or visit our country. We are far much more better that mediocrity displayed in some comments above
Well written Peter.
I would be nice if all humans had healthcare provided at a reasonable cost or free if possible. I would not say I am embarrassed by the American people. Looking at the world's history, starting with ancient civilizations up to this time, I could understand why the society has developed into what it is now.
I am not claiming to be a great historian, but the egos that develop in people and natoins over time, usually end up costing them in the end. Societies that importance of objects rather than the value of life, will live in a more fearful condition. This is what I find.
Always great to read your hubs.
The American experience today as well as our Constitution shows we cannot choose things we wish our government to provide for us. Government can either protect the individual completely with the rule of law or government can plunder the individual completely with the rule of man because no magic boundary exists that men will not cross for profit and the possibilities are endless for the human wants of the spoiled American society. It may be too late to correct anyway as we may have already crossed the point of no return and our ruling government is hell bent on doing everything in its power to not lose its power, which is destroying our market completely. If politicians spent more time reading our history and less time trying to gain personal resources they would have known this. Would they have cared? No. Rules are for serfs not rulers. And we American citizens focus on the NFL, NBA, MLB, American Idol and stealing from our neighbor because he earns more money than we do. Who has time for worrying about the future of our children when there are things to be had? Entitlements grow in parallel with unchained government as plundered citizens attempt to join in the plunder.
Thomas Paine wrote: “The instant formal government is abolished, society begins to act. A general association takes place, and common interest produces common security. Order and harmony were preserved as inviolate as in any country in Europe. There is a natural aptness in man, and more so in society, because it embraces a greater variety of abilities and resources, to accommodate itself to whatever situation it is in”
How could there possibly have been a greater variety of abilities and resources in society without the King of England protecting us all from each other and giving us free things plundered from others? Any American capable of rational thought would know the answer to this if they were not in lockstep with the government induced consumerist state of being. This great civil society we the people created has become a nation of government created takers. Man is better equipped to use his faculties and resources in a free civil society and not have them taken by a confiscatory government to waste in a bureaucratic morass of ineptness…
Captains of our destiny or wards of the state?
There is a middle ground. People that are born in poverty cannot control their destiny without support. Yes free enterprise may say sink or swim, but that's easy to say for someone who more fortunate. Poverty is repressive.
There seems to be no place for common humanity in this debate which is a great pity. So many people can't afford insurance and there is so much suffering as a result. Passing on the other side of the road just shouldn't be an option.
Great reading. I think alot of folks did miss your point,about being played.Thats why we are in Iraq and Afghanistan now. Next stop Iran.
Dearest ixwa,.............What!? Would you repeat that please? What would we be without liberals, oops sorry, progressives. Healthcare yes! Healthcare for the western hemisphere no! Healthcare for those who don't contribute no. Wheres the compassion for illegals and deadbeats? You give them some of yours see how long it lasts.
Illegal aliens will receive no more benefits than they do now.
How can the current bill be "an honest attempt" as you say to reform healthcare when it doesn't deal with tort reform of any kind? That has to be part of ANY legit healthcare reform, but it is politics--the Democrats and President Obama are beholden to trial lawyers. It is no different--Republican or Democrat. They both play political games.
Also a bill of this magnitude that is so much of the country's economy, an honest attempt would not be something to ram through just to have something before the bill could be read.
As for me, I don't trust the federal government to run anything else. They already have my 7 year old deep in debt. No more--balance the budget without killing Americans on taxes! (That means SPEND LESS, not more.) Our founders would be ashamed of us!
I certainly agree that it was a mistake to try to ram this bill through. Something needs to be done.
Rather depressing to hear of Canada, Britain and France being painted as some kind of 'axis of socialist evil' because we have state managed healthcare. And especially when the rest of the world thought America had stepped into the light after dragging Bush into the trashcan of bad memories.
President Obama is trying to play catch-up with the rest of the civilised world and, honour his election pledges. But instead, the Fox Network Nation confirms to the rest of the world that America has a third world mindset with a first world waistline.
Embarrassed Pete? Be ashamed of them. Everyone else will be.
I like the way your brain works and how you present your case. We need guys like you at the University level. I'm not sure if I agree with everything you say but that certainly doesn't reduce your argument.
thanks for a refreshing slant on things. you have a new fan.
Yo! sneakorocksolid!
What would this country be without you. We need you to keep on venting, this is democracy baby. If you choose to divide the country into liberals and conservative, be my guest. Remember, America has melted down and need to be developed by able minds. I have said my piece and will not repeat anything. READ! Health Care for All Americans... yeah!
Dear British Bloke, If thats so, wheres our council house and our dole check? Isn't there a reason why it's called British Leyland and British Air? Fox or not theres two or three of us that don't want to be part of the United Staes of Europe. Whats the deal you and France you two have always been such good pals? Our liberals are just as nutty as your labour party but don't you have some conservatives? If so lets trade, you take our liberals and we'll take your conservatives. Deal?
I agree that Americans tend to be selfish-very selfish. However, I don't believe that opposition to NHC, whatever form it takes, is an indicator of American selfishness.
Americans tend to distrust government, or at least that's been the trend. I think after WWII Americans had way too much trust in government. Part of the opposition to healthcare reform is based upon this distrust.
Finally, since when is it up to my government to decide how I or any other American steps up to help people? If the current plan/plans being forwarded are to demonstrate the generosity of Americans then it is a FORCED generosity. Americans know how to give and to help our neighbors. We don't want or need the government telling us how to do it. Much better if the government stepped aside on this and American consumers were left free to act.
ixwa, Melting pot yes, but please keep your leakage to your self. Why on Gods green earth would any one take the chance on being confused with gender challenged-aborting-give it all away-tree huging- vegan progressives? So where are the able minds? Oh yeah, the Czars have them!
Well sneak I guess someone had to end up messing things up. Up till now we have been able to stick the issue and control the personal stuff. Please try to do so. Anything else is a waste of space.
Sorry Pete I'll move on. Thanks for your Hub and your patience. See you around.
"Are you aware that under Canada's National Healthcare, anyone over the age of 67 can't get a heart bypass? Why? Because it is not ecomically feasible, these people aren't gonna live much longer anyway... "
I think that's very unlikely to be true. I'm not Canadian, but similarly ludicrous lies have been told about the National Health Service here in the UK, and they are just that - outright lies, told by the wicked and those too stupid to check their facts.
"Our liberals are just as nutty as your labour party but don't you have some conservatives? If so lets trade, you take our liberals and we'll take your conservatives. Deal?"
What you don't seem to realise is that pretty much everywhere in the world apart from the USA, everyone supports some form of proper, universal health care system.
You can have the UK's Conservative Party if you want - but you do realise that their policy is fairly, squarely and firmly in favour of the National Health Service?
Sorry Pete I got to. LG the part you don't seem to get is there some Americans who don't want to be like everybody else. We want to be and stay American. I've never been opposed to a national health insurance that includes all working Americans. I give to the charities I choose to. I don't want the liberals or the government to decide for me. There is one exception if it's made a law I will Obey it. "Give Rome what is Romes,".
America is losing over half a million jobs a year! People are out of their houses. About 40 mil., not covered- Americans! People's unemployment checks are coming to an end. Thousands line up for menial jobs.. Long food lines in every state and city. Schools are falling and failing.. Bridges are falling in disrepair. Banks are closing and racism is on the rise. We can do our country service if we were to begin to work hard, improve health and jobs and respect each other.
LondonGirl and others - Yes I too have heard the rumors and lies spread by those against healthcare that healthcare in other countries that have universal healthcare is awful and you can't get this or that...well in THIS country you are often turned down or declined or rejected for necessary tests, operations or medications by the very health insurance companies we dole out all our money too. I pay $900 a month for my husband and I. $900!! But if I get a terminal illness and my insurance company thinks it is too costly to do the operation or any of the other pat reasons they have to save money, I am screwed and there is nothing I can do about it. Do not think that just because you are insured you will always be covered. Additionally, my sister has a friend in Canada who said that the time waiting int he emergency rooms can be 12 hours or so, however; her husband has been ill for quite some time and they are relentless in finding out what is wrong and continue to do all kinds of tests. They pay for none of this. Countries with healthcare also have a higher life expectancy than the US because people stay on top of their health. They can, they don't have to worry if they can afford to.
The Republicans rally against Healthcare for obvious reasons, most of them as well as some democrats are in the pockets of the Pharmaceutical and HMO companies. These people do NOT want Universal Healthcare of course. In fact, it would deplete their profits which are obscene and second only to Oil companies. Let's be realistic here. As long as these people control our politicians they will do whatever they are paid to do (the politicians). So they rally together and spit our words like "socialism" and "communism" and "YOU WILL PAY" and "Immigrants will get coverage" just to scare or piss off the American public and why is that so easy by the way???
I am embarrassed too Pete. By the stupidity and desire to remain ignorant and uninformed.
It is human nature to find an excuse not to do something if you don't really want to do it. The Republicans and the health care opponents know this very well. People who are comfortable with their insurance, or at least think they are, just need an excuse not to rock the boat. The opponents of health care no how to provide the excuses.
In the UK we hold our NHS Doctors and Nurses with the highest esteem. And as far as Britain's [low life] politicians are concerned, the NHS is non-negotiable sacred cow. The NHS is as British as the Queen and Cricket.
However, considering the extortionate healthcare premiums middle class America is paying, it's no wonder they are sceptical about universal healthcare, for everyone else. But isn't the real issue here with the insurance companies? Get angry about that America, instead of holding those who never have the chance to pay, guilty of wanting what is a human right in a civilised society.
'Medicans Sans Frontiers' for all.
I agree with what you write in this hub. There is a very corporate driven stance taken in these "debates" over health care. I put debates in quotes because what is going on is far from healthy, informative debates to try to find a solution--it's all uninformed ranting and raving.
It amazes me how people will rail against things that will help them. In other words, they fight a war of words that will end up hurting them. It's misinformation at its best. It's why Frank Luntz makes a shitload of money to strategize for the GOP.
Instead of ranting with uninformed perspectives, I beg people to actually do some research about health care before you spout off about how un-American it is to put more accountability on insurance companies. Unless you are in upper-management in an insurance company--then I get it, you want to protect your salary. I'll never be negative about that. :)
I included your hub in my hub about great hubs I have enjoyed reading--how about that for a tongue twister? http://hubpages.com/hub/10-Great-Hubpages-Articles
That great! Thank you very much. This is a high honor!
It's UN-American NOT TO QUESTION...In my opinion our nation, being mainly Christian, are happy to not question because that is what they are used to. Instead of realizing this country was built by FREE THINKERS and designed by intention to allow the people to question and not follow blindly like sheep. Change is much to scary for most humans so they throw themselves against the walls in denial and vehement hate for the change itself. It's simple psychology really and if we all just took a breath and a step back from that wall we would see how ridiculous we are being.
Instead we should calmly take a look at all sides and really try to understand the issue, not just listen to what someone is trying to tell us the issue is. Really we tend to jump on bandwagons without any real understanding of anything.
That is what the politicians count on...none of them want us to really understand because that would not serve their purposes. Do yourself and this country a favor and start to really research these issues and make informed decisions. I know this is actually a waste of "breath" because most people are way to indoctrinated to change, but I never give up hope!
Hi Pete,
I am also embarrassed, but most assuredly I AM NOT embarrassed by my fellow citizens. I AM EMBARRESSED BY THE POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT OF BOTH MAJOR PARTIES.
Regardless of party in power the politics of personal destruction rules the day. Civil political discourse is totally lacking in campaigns, Congress, or all public forums of THE POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT.
In summary I agree with your right to espouse your opinion but please don't ever apologize for me.
Pete great Hub.
I am currently without health insurance and it is not fun. I was told by a friend that if you do not have insurance you are either illegal immigrant or lazy. This of course got me going especially since I am battling painful gallstones.
I may not have liked or agreed with Pres. Bush but I would have never "prayed for him to die" or verbally attack his family. Wishing the death of any Presdent is pure selfishness. I disagree with Tom W,you should be embarrassed of fellow citizens. If you can point the finger at the politicians you must also take a look at yourself. Someone else's bad behavior does not make it okay for you too do the same. Whether it be a politician, citizens or people at town hall meetings. Nothing can be accomplished until one learns to compromise. Communication is key but compassion for our neighbors is something that seems to be lacking. The world does not revolve around just me. What works for me does not mean it will work for someone else.
The biggest problem with the Health care reform issue is that the current administration wants to change the entire system just to fix a few problems. You would not do that for any other issue. There have been 17 other proposals to fix the system in congress. They have gotten no news coverage at all. They want to fix not tear down and redo the whole system. This is like getting a new car because you have a flat tire. Fix the problems are the best way to help everyone.
So, after the next 9/11, you would raise taxes... that would show em! I do agree with you on one thing, after reading this dribble, I too am embarrassed by my fellow Americans!
I am sure you can tell by the many comments this is a great Hub.
I can tell by the number of Fans oscarlane has, that he is only interested in things that are good for oscarlane, We'll pray for him, as he basks under the yum yum tree.
I'm not one of those corrupt republicans (or one of the corrupt democrats), but I have to point out, I think you're missing some of the main principles of many who object to socialized health care.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.
Many people believe giving things to people, free, makes them weaker, not stronger. If we gave people food, shelter, health care, cars, cell phones etc, what incentive would there be to go out and create value (work)? After a long enough time, no one would be working, and there would be nothing left to give to people.
Many people also believe the US competes in a global marketplace. A marketplace where consumers largely only consider price and quality (not whether the manufacturing workers had health care). And piling on the costs of socialism will cause many market segments, like agriculture or manufacturing, to be too expensive to be done inside the US. Essentially, we pile so many benefits on US workers, that we price our products out of the market (the US auto industry would be a case in point).
These are just a couple of the principles many of those "embarrassing republicans" operate on.
Point taken MN. oscarlane, if you have reasoning for your statement I would like to hear them. If you can only insult then I would appreciate it if you didn't waste the space on this page. I have had great comments on both sides of the issue; none of us needed comments without information.
Well said. What's lost in all the extreme rhetoric is the fact that the system as it stands can't be maintained. There is nothing saying that working people HAVE to have health care. If things stay as they are, prices will double again in only five years, pricing even workers who currently have insurance out of the market.
Everyone seems worried about somebody getting something for free while they pay for it, but that's already happening now. The cost of the uninsured is passed on to the ever-dwindling pool of the insured. We can start denying care (many places already have)but that will only feel like a good solution (to some) so long as it's someone else being denied care.
If it's your wife or daughter or grown son, or yourself, it's suddenly not so wonderful.
I agree Pete. Poverty is a fine example of government malfeasance. Americans living in Poverty need to be pulled up by our Civil Society as government has been way too busy taking care of itself to worry about the citizens and the natural rule of law. This may cause one to wonder if our Society is self ruled at all. Would a Civil Society provide resources for new cars and new homes to citizens when less fortunate citizens are in poverty with no car, no home, and no resources? Would a Civil Society destroy 1 million cars when they could be used by women’s shelters, food banks, and churches? I don’t see the logic here, and where no logic exists, government skulks. Is the Civil Society better equipped to use its resources for the Civil Society itself? Did America start this Health Care debate in 2009 or was it started long ago by the actions of lobbyists and government? Should we be quick to point fingers at industry when government has and continues to line their coffers from them? Can we sustain this Civil Society with the finite resources we have left and sustain our massive government along with it? Are we doing OK as a Society or are we bankrupt? Society must disassociate itself from government when they become at odds to the goals of Society itself. Our government has not represented Americans since corporate lobbyists started writing bills for political contributions. We Americans have, and can do much better than this with the chained government we once enjoyed.
One must ask themselves why a multi-billion dollar Insurance industry would allow the politicians it paid for to destroy it. Would it be lucrative for this multi-billion dollar industry if government could pick up a portion of the Health Care tab or perhaps control the costs for Health Care itself? How about making it mandatory for all Americans to have insurance? Who gains here? What exactly do we expect from the continued tolerance of a corrupt government?
That's a very good point about the cars. I know we want to get cars off the road for envirnmental reasons, but some of the cars could be used to shelters and charities and to get people to jobs. That is a darn good question. Why should they be destroyed?
I welcome differing opinion. My problem with the people I've seen is that I have seen signs going after the president's wife and his children. I have seen signs advocating violence and people are carrying guns to rallies. This you did not get from liberals and this is all well planned by the machine. The focus of the hub is how people are played.
lol.
To be fair you do see this kind of behavior from both sides. And whether you want to admit it or not, so have you! They are called nut-cases and you can find them anywhere. whether they are liberal, conservative or something entirely different.
Unfortunately I think that most Americans ARE that embarrassing, if for differing reasons. Of course, that doesn't mean being a US citizen pre-qualifies any one of us 'little' folk for an instant guilt-trip. In reference to the ME thing, I will admit to identifying more with myself than any country at large...but not to the extent that I don't care what happens to the rest of humanity.
That said, I think your commentary here is spot-on. I ponder, however, your use of the phrase 'enlightened self-interest' which in this case smarts of a ridiculous paradox.
I didn't read all the comments simply because while I was skimming I could tell this was a flame-war powder keg. I just wanted to point out two things.
Despite being a sociopathic nutjob, Hitler was a very good politician and under him Germany actually did pretty well up until the soviets ground Berlin beneathe their Tanks. Everybody had a car, there was no unemployment, and apart from the small matter of trying to wipe out a whole race and trying to take over the world the Nazi party was pretty successful.
Secondly, The IQ of this country has been dropping precipitously for well over two decades, due mostly to the total lack of public education. That coupled with the total lack of flexibility of the two ruling parties and the media's overwhelming need to sensationalize every stupid little thing and pander to the mob brings the total collapse of western civilazation increasingly close.
Some days I wonder if the movie Idiocracy wont come true.
Hi Pete, great topic! You make some good points. I was just wondering about your idea with the federal tax to go up 10% every time they get sent out to war. I'm pretty sure that the war is paid for by the people anyway, and that's what drives the nation down. I have a message or teaching from Bob McEwen, and he explains politics so well. The nation does not need any government to fix the problem! They just make it worse. Every time I hear a politician say anything about spending tax dollars I cringe. It's the free enterprise that creates prosperity! There is just way to much information for this comment. I think I shall write about it! Every American needs to hear it, and so does the current government!
Hi Pete, great topic! You make some good points. I was just wondering about your idea with the federal tax to go up 10% every time they get sent out to war. I'm pretty sure that the war is paid for by the people anyway, and that's what drives the nation down. I have a message or teaching from Bob McEwen, and he explains politics so well. The nation does not need any government to fix the problem! They just make it worse. Every time I hear a politician say anything about spending tax dollars I cringe. It's the free enterprise that creates prosperity! There is just way to much information for this comment. I think I shall write about it! Every American needs to hear it, and so does the current government!
Free enterprise creates prosperity unless in becomes free wheeling capitalism then it will run down the workers like it did in the outsourcing craze. Also the collapse of all regulation leads to things like Ponzy schemes.
nice
I must admit I see where you are coming from with this hub. All the Right Wingers that go to these rallies and behave inappropriately are creating a bad name for the rest of us. Sometimes sarcasm and lack of tact hurt us in a way that opens us up for criticism from the Left. Remember, though, that Lefties don't always behave appropriately either.
This is exactly what I hate about people who have agendas. Tell me something...do you trust peoples perspective who get their daily political info from Michael Savage or Rush Limbaugh?? You need some sort of balance. You don't give it. All I heard was typical left-wing bullshit. I might as well have read something Sean Hannity posted if I wanted to get just one side of a story.
The thing I dislike about these town halls is the names that our President has been called. No matter who he is or what agenda you have the Presidency should ALWAYS BE RESPECTED. My favorite politician of all-time was Jack Kennedy. He was the last president who didn't care about other people's agendas or following a political line, he just did what he thought was right, a lesson hard-learned after the Bay of Pigs.
The other thing you did was lie...do you not remember President Bush being called a NAZI??? Do you not remember some of the things that other "Politicians" called him?? Perhaps Senator Reed saying that "Bush was the worst President we ever had" was just a LITTLE un-called for and mean-spirited. Haven't you had enough of political games and back-stabbing by the different parties?
If you don't understand that there are scumbags and nutjobs on BOTH sides of the aisle, you need a refresher course in Politics 101.
But I still missed your point...if it was to say that the health care system is messed up, then tell us something we don't know. No matter what the President proposes, people will be unhappy. The only thing that I think can make a difference is to provide people with as many CHOICES as they can get for healthcare. More choices, lowers costs. You will NEVER EVER EVER be able to provide health care for nothing without totally screwing everyone. I am someone who has had cancer and now suffers from 3 other diseases including Lymphedema and Crohn's disease. I can't wait 6 months to get a cat-scan...I can't wait 36 hours at an emergency room. That's what will happen if we do that.
But the most alarming and false thing you said was the the Worst President Bush was called was "an Idiot" That was probably the BEST thing he was called. People HATED Bush...Remember the slogan "Anyone but Bush"...Come on...and enough with saying that Bush was to militant with terrorists . After 911 he had to do something drastic to protect us. Imagine if that had happened again??? Even Karl Rove would have called for his impeachment.
I'm confused about the point you are trying to make. This hub received a score of 100. However, it is pretty egocentric and deals mostly with your feelings of insecurity based on the title.
I'm glad to hear that you can easily get health insurance. I can't, but don't have confidence in Obama's plan either.
Sir from a person who is one with out health care I don’t agree with your views one bit. I also have been to these other great nations and talked to the people, and what they say like in Norway as I talked to the major who was assigned to my unit for the 17days we were there to do some military stuff. I as a right winger as you like to call folks like me I asked him how they were to have the highest standard of living in the world he said that that was true, but that they paid on the average of 65-70% of their income in Taxes, and that their health care was not as good as ours. Yes it was free but that if you were hurt you would wait to be treated. This is the part that all of you left winger forget to talk about when you say how great Europe’s health care is. Like England that has women giving birth in hall ways because they don’t have room for them. Now back to the major his words don’t let your country ever go the way they have with health care. Oh he must have been a right winger right. Why is it that people like your self say that we don’t have good health care but when was the last time you were ever turned away from an ER here? And I don’t know about you but see I don’t like the fact that this H.C.Bill is going to raise my taxes and people like you think that is great. When was the last time rising taxes has ever pulled a nation out of a rescission? Never has this ever happened it is just the opposite, and you know what is funny the president that you left wingers like to bring up JFK he didn’t believe in the thought that you raise taxes and it helps the nation he lowered the taxes when he was the President. I bet he would be rolling over in his grave to hear what this guy is doing.
Oh as I am a Conservative and a vet and a business owner who wants all of you to leave my money alone. If you want this health care bill then you pay for it instead of telling all of us to pay for it.
Oh and the thing about how the other countries did it right. Let’s go back to the great Europeans who have caused 2world wars and needed those dumb Americans to bail them out. They owe us for their way of life. So let’s stop all of this how great they are and how we need to do what they do.
hope all can be changed in the future,don't be frustrated.
Great Hub.
What motivates these extremist's behaviors? I have to believe that they are mindless followers of jerks like Limbaugh and Hannity. I believe most people are simply waiting for the health care issue to become more clear. The "death panel" people to me seem like crazies but they are definitely starting to scare those who won't think for themselves.
The Republicans seem to be heading down the path of a miserable bunch of nutjobs. I agree we need more clear thinking and civilized people to step up and get loud. The President needs to whip out a big case of whoopass, and the sooner the better. We are waiting. He needs to stop reaching across the aisle because there is not much else over there than rabid pit bulls ready to rip off his arm.
Ok ckmagic here's the deal. You make good points, but don not call me a liar on my page. You can take that and put it where the sun doesn't shine. You keep that crap to yourself or you can take a hike away form my hubs. The fact is the nutjobs out there not have insulted the president's children, they have insulted the president's wife, and the call for violence. They suck big time. I hope that is clear enough for you.
All this back and forth debating is entertaining as heck,
but these town hall meetings which are supposed to be a way
to ask questions related to the topic they are there to
discuss are no longer informative but are cartoonish at
best. In the meantime there are no real exchanges of ideas.
But there are certain facts that are true now and will be true five years from now. First, go to a big city hospital
emergency room on any given night,and a certain amount of
the patients will have no health insurance. there are illegals here who take their babies to emergencies rooms for
ear infections that have been ignored for a certain period
of time till the kid is deathly ill. There are people coming
in this country which certain health problems. there are people who radio stations etc. will try to raise money for
some little kid who needs a liver transplant whose parents can't afford but David Crosby the musician , can get one
no problem. There are poor people in inner cities,drug addicts that share needles. homeless people who suffer from
mental illness . Not that long ago the talk was about
seniors not being able to afford prescriptions,and they
were going to canada. There will still be old people who
will have to decide to refill prescriptions or eat. In fact
that's happening to good portion of people who have lost their jobs and homes NOW. there are gang bangers still
shooting each other with guns. And there are people who
manage to die in emergency room lobbies. My point is I dont
care what europe does or canada,france Bahrain,and so forth.
I don't care what political party a person is. I dont care
what king george did or hitler. This is our country here and
now.I dont want to hear how we can throw out illegals and
ignore the poor,blah,blah,blah. I dont want to hear that
people winding up amputees in these wars dont have everything they need to live after they served for us. Or
that yougsters who signed on longer and received a bonus
then gets disabled must return their bonus because they now
have no legs and had to come home. And we ALL PAY for each
others health care. You pay one way or another.Aren't we
glad we didn't privatize social security??!! That would have
been swell.Health care is an investment in our country for
the future. We have so many huge issues to solve,we are
going to need our people to be educated and healthy and
wanting to give back. We have to take care of each other
the best way to in turn take care of our country. I know every one hates taxes but I think most people wouldn't mind
a one cent national sales tax. Knowing it would go to a resonable health care plan. States use lotteries and such.
Their are many ways. National sales tax or state sales tax.
Should make everyone happy. Rich and poor and folks down the
middle would pay that extra penny. And as long as it went
where it should I don't think people would mind.
Having a step-son in Afghanistan I totally agree that disabled veterans derserve to be at the head of the line when it comes to being taken care of.
Good article and points. http://www.earnwagesfromhome.com
We can't wait till everything is perfect and even-steven.
We can't wait till we throw out all illegals(like that's
really going to happen)or find a way to dispatch the poor.
A tremendous proportion of this terrible economy is health care related.This is an issue that will only get worse. Doing something is a heck of alot better then nothing.
some one has to start somewhere.
Thank you Pete! How wonderful to hear (or actually read) a voice of civility. I felt awful when I heard how Ben Cardin was jeered and out shouted at a recent town hall meeting. Instead of trying to understand what the White House is trying to do, or engaging in a healthy debate, these people are rude, obnoxious, and what with carrying guns with them, downright dangerous.
Delores - I think the people already know what the WH wants to do - they have listened, this is supposed to be their chance to respond (Obama has had over 100 speeches and news conferences related to health care). That's why they are angry...
And about the automatic rifle wielding guy at the town hall (in texas I think it was)... CNN and MSNBC just showed a close up of the rifle.. I saw the same clip but longer, and when the cameras panned out a little it was a pro-reform black guy... "Reform now!", and he had a semi-automatic slung over his shoulder.
Also Dolores, you seem to have missed the fact that guns didn't show up at the town halls until a week after the (Democrat)union thugs showed up and beat up that black guy selling flags at a town hall.
People see what they want to see, I guess.
In regards to the last comment about free enterprise. Good point, we need regulation in society! It does not take billions of dollars to regulate!! The government is very good at wasting money, because they did not work for it! They work on getting elected, then waste peoples money. How much money does America owe? Nine trillion…Or is it ten trillion? The nation is heading for a major economic collapse. It’s been predicted by Peter Daniels, an economic guru from Australia. The best thing we can do is prepare for it…
"They have got to be the most self interested and gullible people on the planet." - 100% True.
Pete
Congrats on scoring 100 for this hub.
MN - sorry but a lot of those people have not listened. In several instances, people on Medicare have said they do not want the government messing around with their health care when they are in a government run health care system.
Also, the people who are yelling about the 'death panels' don't have a clue what the White House intends or offers. They are repeating right wing propaganda put out by right wing talk show hosts who twist the truth in an effort to keep the health care system in the hands of business men.
What's amazing is to me is how so many Americans are tricked and manipulated into voting and/or thinking against their own self-interests.
Pete I agre with you and the First family. They should always be left alone no mater who the President is I might not like Mr Obamas views but I think anyone who wants to hurt him or his family should be arested and put in jail.And I also agree that this is your blog and if people thinks you are a liar they should take it off line. So from a brothrer on the other side keep it free.
My fellow American’s. Think of it from this stand point and in my shoes. As a (5x) five time combat veteran of the Cold war, Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosovo, and then Iraq and now a permanently disabled veteran of 18 years of service; I too have a hard time even thinking that the America I chose to defend has turned to what it is today. I became a highly decorated soldier and combat wounded for what? To come home and have people clap for me in the airport? Maybe it was the handshakes in a restaurant. Who knows anymore? When I looked into many of the American’s and some foreign nationals eyes, when greeted, I have felt many things, but one that collected in my head the most was the overwhelming “robot like” people that just go with the flow just to pretend to be a part of the system. The “machine” has a definite hold on pretty much all of us, with our overly inflated ego’s and “want” for materialistic items. Forgetting to think of what brought them these things in the first place. It is only now at age 42 that I sit recluse in my home day in and day out, after a short life, afraid of what will greet me every time I open the door to step out. No jobs because they are taken over seas, our social system being used up by illegal’s from every other country even though they don’t pay I a dime into the system (all because of legal jargon). Health care out of control (NOT!) The government spending and doing what they darn well please without listening to the people. People (the robots) just going alone to stay out of the lime light. Need I go on people? Taking back “OUR” country my fellow American’s is not that hard. Just do it. You all have to remember that “we the people” elected them to represent us, not their own ideology and hidden agendas. You can’t just give up after one letter or just by listening to the news. The news and media are run by the government and the government tells the big networks what to put up, so as to “SHAPE” the world markets and people they reach. Most people just go along and believe what they hear. I for one do not, as I have been around the world some 32 times, and seen some 68 countries in my short life. Amazingly enough I can give you this example. In Iraq, I didn’t see one sick person, except the American’s, to include myself when I went to war. They don’t have health care like we did. Yet they remain health in the nastiest of conditions. China, when visited, has more people per square inch then we do, and they are not sick like us. Are we starting to get the picture? We spoiled, self centered, egotistical, pompous Americans that we are take the literal meaning of life to another level of “dream land thinking.” With no respect for one self. Take back what is ours and believe me, things will change for the better, trust me on that. I try daily to buy only locally and American. It does have an impact. I tried to sell my novels in China. You know what I got in return? Nothing at all. Not a dime, not even a way into the giant market. Not only will our government not let you sell to them, but internationally we are oppressed into thinking we are selling to the world when we are not. We are only selling locally. To bring the jobs back here, just buy American only. Demand it. Request it. See it. Live it. Be it. Need I say more? If those that came here and are not American’s don’t like it, well its simple. Get out of my country. Otherwise, you conform to our way of life not the other way around. America is slowly but surely becoming a transformed nation of some other world, not the great melting pot we once knew; as I wrote about in my long but effective story “The Melting Pot Has Cracked.” Now that we are all jobless, broke, hurting, and hungry; what are you as an American going to do about it? What have you done for your country today?
I can't help but think that some of this "public outcry" is because some people are really pissed off about Obama's pre-election popularity and that he was elected President.
If it wasn't health care, it would have been something else.
Pete I congratulate you on such a highly rated hub. And about the only thing I am really embarassed about Is the fact that neither Ideology can pursue a rational and cooperative discourse . I believe that you missed a major point . It has nothing to do with the fact that of Obamas pre election popularity as was Intimated In the previous comment . I am sorry but I had to laugh at that one.
I want to go on record as saying there Is no doubt In my mind that healthcare Is In serious need of reform , and at the town hall meetings that may have been the topic , but that was just a catalyst !
What the anger Is about Is that the citizens of this country no longer feel as If they have a voice In this country . No matter what your affiliation politically this Is about we the people feeling disenfranchised ! This Is about people getting tired of our elected officials dictating to us what Is good for us . This Is about a bill being to big for them to read but they are going to pass It Inspite of the majority of misgivings by the citizens of this country . People are damn sick and tired of a guy being In a position of power who puts his campaign contributors first and his constituency second.
This Is about a group of people whose arrogance has grown to such a level that people finally want to take on the school bully ! Second amendment rights , cap and trade ,( Another tax but they wont tell you that ) , Immigration laws , Patriot act , erosion of the constitution , and a bailout of the financial elite Instead of the little guy !
This Is about a man who writes our tax code but did not pay taxes on 4 MILLION In undeclared Income , but slipped a provision In HR3200 to make sure you pay a penalty even If you made an honest mistake . I could go on ad Infinitum however hopefully I articulated my point .
This Is about people not wanting taxation without representation . Thx for letting me rant !And I hope that the citizens are scaring the hell out of congress and the Senate . I am not embarassed at all ! Peace out !
I totally agree with you !!!
Tony,
That was a clear response and solid reasoning. I may not totally agree but I appreciate your view and your take on the anger.
I want RockinB for President! What happened to;"a government by the people for the people."
As someone in the UK- I am saddened to see that public opinion is already against President Obhama. He seemed such a breath of fresh air in comparison to bumbling Bush. I do not want to offened anyone and America is not my country but I would be proud to have him as our leader. He is trying to help those less fortunate which has to be good. He wont get everything right but what leader does?.
Well Ethel It Is about more then Obama . Most of his cabinet had taxes that had not been paid . And a couple of his Czars have had documented and filmed anti American rhetoric . I am no pundit , but that generally will create friction especially when you have been designated to look out for the welfare of a nation.
What ever happend to in God we Trust!!!!! God will alaways make the wisdom of this world look foolish.
I could not have said it better than Tony. The government today does not seek to debate their policies. Instead, they try to silence all opponents. They belittle people who speak out against their freedoms being taken away by a rush to shove a 1000 page document through Congress, without it being read.
Great hub dude enjoyed the read. I am also embarrassed by many other Americans. They have such low intelligence and no view for themselves they are malleable as much as a coat hanger. Keep up the great hubs.
A thought for the day...
Exactly how much money in CASH did the Bush administration LOSE in Iraq? The figure of NINE BILLION dollars in **CASH** comes to mind? Cash which helped finance an insurgency against American and coalition forces.
No wonder Republicans are so set against healthcare for Americans as in their world, anything the KILLS Americans, from guns, to financing foreign terrorists with American tax payers money, to having American children die of third world diseases because a dime on basic healthcare provision is "money not well spent", is clearly a GOOD THING.
Nine Billion dollars would have bought a lot of childhood vaccinations, instead the Bush Family Mafia gave tax payers money to Al Qaeda in Iraq. One Nation under idiotcracy?
** If you ARE an American, then you NEED to read the 'Independent World' article which this comment links to.
Health Care. Where will this end? We all must realize that Americans have different views on life. Calling one group right wing this and another group left wing that is pointless and exactly what our government wishes. We should all agree on the rule of law, which is the reason this nation was so prosperous. The Rule of Law does not allow 51% of the mob to vote for the property of the other 49%, or those that yell the loudest, but that is exactly what our government has forced us into over the last 75 years because they write their own laws, making plunder lawful.
Enforce the Rule of Law above the Rule of Men as it was or we will be destined to once again fight each other in our towns and cities because man does not wish to be plundered. Man will not endure slavery. When plunder becomes more painful than life the plundered will put a stop to it, for Justice to reign over all. We have allowed ourselves to become ignorant of the rights of man under the rule of law that created this country. Our government is the problem and until government is chained we Americans will continue on a path toward collapse and Revolution.
One must realize our Plunder of each other and our Plunder of the world to understand how this is going to end. Americans will not allow plunder in the end, and the rest of the world will not allow Plunder today. Entitlements work as long as somebody pays for them. Those carefree days of entitlements are coming to a swift end. Some Americans think this Health Care plan is going to shower them with free medicinal bliss when it will do the exact opposite.
These numbers are rounded, from usdebtclock. (.org)
Gross Domestic Product: +9 Trillion
National Debt: -12 Trillion
Medicare/Medicaid Liabilities: -40 Trillion
Social Security Liabilities: -11 Trillion
Prescription Drug Liabilities: -9 Trillion
Estimated Currency & Derivatives: -645 Trillion
How do we pay for this? All this in our names, by our government, for votes. For Power. For Plunder. We the People are responsible for this because We the People allowed unchained government to raise this debt in our names without any discourse. We the People will pay the price for what this government has done, as will our grand children.
Shall we start invading countries to continue the theft of their resources so we can all have subsidized care? Shall we start with Venezuela? They’re close, they have oil, and they've grown tired of our governments shenanigans.
Nicely done there RockinB . I hate to say this but both parties are beholden to the banking entities and the left/right Ideology Is just a distraction from that . I believe Government should be used for National Defense and Infrastructure period . Better yet no Government globally , I suspect the world would be a better place.
No government works as long as your not one of the people being ground up by big business or other rich and powerful entities. If it wasn't for government we would still have slavery.
Unchained Government wielding power by force will never make a decision, regulation or introduce a bill that would limit their power, reduce their income, or provide them with the same Plundered Entitlements they shower on the huddled masses. They will never base a decision for the good of the citizens, or the good of their country over their own desires. They legislate for their prosperity, as men have done throughout history when given unlimited powers. Big businesses are the ones that are paying these politicians for beneficial legislation. We the People cannot compete with a corporation that pays for Laws and elected officials that support them. We do not have enough money to buy legislation for the people.
Here is how it works in Washington:
Tom Daschle, former Senate Majority Leader had an appointment under President Obama as the Health and Human Services Secretary until his tax error was found. Mr. Daschle turned down the appointment and immediately accepted a job in GE’s Healthy Magination group, which is a 6 Billion Dollar Health Care Initiative that proposes low cost health care services. GE received 139 Billion dollars of We the Peoples money. NBC, CNBC, and MSNBC are subsidiaries of GE. Would this be an example of big business crushing the little guy or blatant corruption in government? Perhaps GE will receive the government contract to provide all the services in the new Health Care Reform Bill? Government hates big business only when they don’t line their pockets, then they become little businesses or non-existent businesses.
We Americans have an uncanny ability to overcome bad situations when pushed beyond our limits and even with our own governments boot planted firmly on our necks we will overcome this with the 9th, 10th, and as a last resort, the 2nd Amendments to our Constitution. It appears our Forefathers had an uncanny ability of knowing how governments turn out and provided us with the tools to bring one back from the depths of despotism.
In responce to your HUB. Ask your self if my wife didn't have government health care plan where would I be. Can't you see where Obama is going with this. Its I will control you all of you. The banks, department stores, your life. We will be comunists. I for one will not let him take away any of my rights and freedoms and neither will 3/4 of the contry that is making its way to washington in protest. We all need to stand up and say no way will I let you do this to me or my country. At one town hall meeting on the east cost a woman asked her rep about what she read in the health care bill H.R.3200. Then asked why she could not have his health care plan. His ansure was run for congress. Our us reps. have been in office far to long and have forgotten who they work for. They work for us and since they have forgotten.VOTE them out in 10 months.
RockinB that is some great logic and information. That is definitely stuff to make me think. Thanks, that's exactly what I was hoping to get out of this.
mpries, Obama can't be a Nazi and a Communist. No one tried harder to control the people that GW. I do agree that we need some term limits on senators.
One of the last time's I was in the hospital for a surgery
I happened to look at the detailed bill and I believe the cost of a single aspirin was $8.00. I was told recently by
a client at my business who is 80 years old that his doctor
told him due to his age medicare would not authorize a colonoscopy. That even if he had colon cancer, at his age he
would most likely die from something else. The client was
outraged, how could someone else decide if he would still be
useful at his age. Later I looked it up, and medicare wraps
up this item by saying elderly people can't take that procedure physically and would be more likely to suffer problems gastrically. WOW- I hope no one has plans to live
a long time. We already have a system that decides by age
what medical tests you can have. Something to think about!!!
Hello Pete. President Bush infringed on our personal Liberties, President Obama is inserting government as sole judgement between contracts. Two very connected liberties.
President Obama gave compelling words on limited government, Liberties and the Rights of Americans in the last five minutes of his speech that would make all Americans proud. The Health Care Reform Bill I read in July is the exact opposite. If this Law of man is so important that we citizen’s need it immediately and it was the utmost urgency government must pass it today, why does this Law not take effect until after the next Presidential election?
On the one hand government demands its citizens be responsible for themselves and purchase Health Care or be fined. On the other hand government forces us to be responsible for the Health Care of drug addicts, alcoholics, criminals, obesity, drunk drivers, and in general those of us who are not responsible in the choices we make or just do not want to buy Health Care Insurance. Which is it? Responsible for ourselves or forced responsibility of the collective? Liberty or Plunder? Independence or Dependence? One cannot have both unless it is government speaking one thing, and the proposed law doing the opposite.
Why does government find it so difficult to tell the American Citizens that they have bankrupted us and the world will no longer buy their debts to fund our lifestyle?
Government forcing its citizens to buy things from Companies they don’t wish to buy from is Slavery regardless of how the words are written or the speech is given. Our bankrupt government is transferring the burden of a promise made for votes many decades ago to our parents and grand parents that it can no longer keep. Government can give only what it takes and when the taking can’t be sustained it is transferred directly to the backs of the citizens in the guise of Reform. We the People must step forward and labor more for the continued plunder of our own existence. This economic illusion cannot be sustained and government is attempting to prolong its existence by transferring unsustainable debt directly to the citizens. The collapse of our economy continues as Americans are told it is recovering all the while government pulls back entitlements because government know's it is not improving. This rise in GDP was directly from government plunging its citizens into more debt.
So what do we do with these drug addicts,alcoholics,fat people,criminals and drunk drivers? Unless we are going to
allow hospitals and clinics to toss people out because they
have aids or God knows what else with the homeless. We must
be realistic about who with what we get exposed to. There
has to be some sort of safety net for these people,like how
many will get the flu shots,including the swine flu. There
will be people who think they can get by without it and if
they come in contact with someone that has it they will be
very sick. The homeless too. there's just too many variables
out there..
The U.S. Government created Medicare and Medicaid. Many Americans think doctors, nurses, and insurance companies are responsible for the high cost of Health Care because our government now tells us this for its own purposes. Could these costs be directly connected from government pandering to the wishes of campaign funding corporate lobbyists many years before? Americans voted for a President that promised to put notice on lobbyists that business as usual was ending on K Street. Politicians say what they need to say to get elected and then its business as usual as the plunder of citizens continues unabated. The only thing that ever changes is the purchasing power of money, and the amount of money one keeps from his labor, year after year. Many Americans are standing up now and politicians as well as media are labeling them as extremists, against Health Care reform. The opposite of what is actually taking place. We must reform our government first. This is our solution. When it becomes a burden to serve in ones government men with a higher calling to duty will serve once again. This is reform. Health Care in a free market void of government intervention for lobbyists.
Ms.Phoenix, an $8 dollar aspirin cannot be supported in the free market. Could this be the hand of a powerful regulating government at work for a drug company?
If the people standing were protesting that cause I would definitely be supporting that. You are exactly right about the power of the lobbies and that power has never been curbed. Their complaints seem to play right into the hands of the lobbyists. They do not want change. That want business as usual because they've been scared into thinking change is bad.
So many good comments and different points of view, so I’ll offer yet another.
Why is the federal government involved in this anyway? Do we not still have an amendment to our constitution, contained in the Bill of Rights, that says “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited to it by the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”? It seems to me that if government has a role, it should be at the State level, or lower. What makes it a federal role?
Additionally, it costs. Our taxes will continue to go up as we continue to extend the reach and responsibilities of the federal government. I don’t see how we can afford to continue expanding the role of government without it becoming unaffordable to us. Big government costs big bucks, with no guarantee that the tax dollars will end up where they are intended to go.
Good comments and an excellent find on the constitution issue.
FitnezzJim you are 100% correct. This Health Care Reform Bill comes complete with its own clause stating that any specific items in the bill found unconstitutional will not invalidate the entire bill. The federal government will not give up this power they have been enjoying by our inaction to enforce the Constitution lightly.
The movement for restoring and reasserting States Rights under the Tenth Amendment and informing Americans what has been taken from them is well under way across America. (TenthAmendmentCenter dot com)
WOW! This blogpage draw alot of mixed reactions. Great hub. I have been a nurse for over two decades.Ms. Phoenix asks what are we going to do about drug addicts, homeless,aids patients, etc? I got news for her. Do you realize how often these type of people rotate through the current system? ER room,crisis intervention, etc. These people can be contained and the cost too by electronic record keeping. Too much bureacracy, to much paperwork, redundant testing by outsourced lab/diagnostic companies,and billing a 3 year comatose person for physical therapy-so dirt goes on. People don't understand the healthcare industry is robbing them. I'm in the trenches, so I know.
Good info omi. Thanks
Great hub! I completely agree.
You are correct Omi Saide. But there are people who want these undesirables or illegal aliens/drunks etc to not be able to get care if they can't pay. My point is we pay anyway. But the other thing is we as voters and citizens can
make a health care system anyway we want. We can take the best of all them and create a better one for this country. A
client of my business recently said in a nutshell,one side
feels health care is a right and the other side feels that it is a privilege. And neither side wants to budge. I know
that there are staggering amount of rip-offs within this
system as it is. But there is no time like the present to at
least attempt to try to really discuss with civility these
most important issues.
Omi, I applaud your service to the sick. You’re a true giver.
We may be missing the greater point. Those in our society who have not bothered to take care of themselves and live a life of reckless abandon, and those with limited resources, have been using our medical system since its existence. That’s fine. We Americans will never advocate the denial of care to anyone. Obviously our system cannot handle all the sick of the world so limits to citizens seems reasonable. And with the use of the word reasonable, we will not allow a foreigner to lie in the street suffering a broken leg. We are a humane civil society regardless of what the media would have one believe. We Americans are all paying for this care today and will continue to pay for this care until the collapse. The problem is that government needs a greater revenue stream and wishes to insert itself squarely in the middle of all this activity from which it can plunder more labor to delay the inevitable. In addition to this care we are all paying today for those who do not, we should now pay an “insurance premium fee” directly to the IRS from our labor for those who cannot pay. One may see this as absurd to pay for the same thing twice. What will be gained here? What will government do with this new tax revenue it has clearly placed on its citizens with threat of IRS action and imprisonment? They will spend it as they always do on whatever they wish. Perhaps pork projects or propping up their lobbyist friends companies, bailing out a banker friend, more printing and taxing in attempt to stave off collapse a little while longer. Perhaps they can further fund our wars for oil. Regardless of the outcome of this healthcare takeover for the fruits of our labor in the name of humanity, we Americans will all be enjoying our new way of life very soon. Look beyond this increased confiscation of America’s labor and ask yourself why.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
-Ayn Rand
I hate to say it but I am afraid, Rockin B, you are right about the spending habits of the government. History shows that tax money raised for one cause always seems to find its way to other things. I recall the great clammer for a lockbox on social security.
You sir, are absolutely correct in your Social Security analogy. This entitlement program is unsustainable too and our seniors will not receive a cost of living increase next year, at a time our senior citizens need it most with expenses increasing. A promise to the citizens many years ago for a secure future in their golden years by forced contributions of their earnings from labor to be saved for them. This is one of the very few entitlement programs we have done right, and government ultimately spent it on other things they wished to spend it on and we the people did nothing. Very sad lot of thieves our government has become.
With any luck perhaps they will all soon be unemployed.
Zollstock says:
3 months ago
I am so with you. The big picture seems to usually be neglected on this side of the ocean ... maybe because there is such a focus on individualism. Sadly, that doesn't propel a society forward and creates problems that, in one way or another, touch everyone. And a resounding "yes" to your plan for a war tax. Keep it up, Pete, and hold your head high, because you **do** see the big picture.