Ignore The Commandments?
66Looking for the balance
Torah and Grace
Greetings: This hub is being published in response to another hub that has no comment section available in it.... (found here) http://hubpages.com/hub/The-New-Arrangement
Written by this Hubber:
b4u2c
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Hummmm?....Let's see now?.....It would seem that balance is missing here. A need here to rightly divide the words of truth, a perfect opportunity for it. This huber starts off by saying “Those who are under the New Covenant are NOT to submit themselves to the Old Covenant.” (really?) That does not sound what like Yeshua (Jesus) said to me and others standing around. The term “law” in Hebrew means “instructions.”
Find the 613 commandments here, click it and scroll down a bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot
Read them and see if you agree that any of them are good to do, not to feel proud or boastful but just see if they have wisdom and understanding in them.
You said in your last line this “In the Old Testament (Old Covenant) we often find the phrase “Fear God.” In the New Testament (New Covenant)... guess what... that's right... not found!”..........well now, is that so?....guess you just rebuked Jesus now didn't you...the term “fear GOD” or “fear of GOD” appears about 15 times or more, some are here.
Matt 10:28 “Don't be afraid of those who want to kill you. They can only kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”...(sir, I would if I were you, sounds like your teaching others to disobey commandments, but Jesus warned against that) I don't suppose Paul was terrified when he met Messiah on the way to Damascus was he?
Matt 28:4 “The guards shook with fear when they saw HIM, and they fell into a dead faint” Luke 1:50 “His mercy goes on from generation to generation, to all who fear him.”
Luke 5:26 “And they were all amazed, and they glorified God and were filled with fear, saying, "We have seen strange things today!" Luke 7:16 “Great fear swept the crowd, and they praised God, saying, "A mighty prophet has risen among us," and "We have seen the hand of God at work today." Luke 12:5 “But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him.” Luke 23:40 “But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Don't you even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?” Acts 9:13 “The church then had peace throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria, and it grew in strength and numbers. The believers were walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 13:16 “So Paul stood, lifted his hand to quiet them, and started speaking. "People of Israel," he said, "and you devout Gentiles who fear the God of Israel, listen to me.” Romans 3:18 “"They have no fear of God to restrain them.” 2 Cor. 7:1 “Because we have these promises, dear friends, let us cleanse ourselves from everything that can defile our body or spirit. And let us work toward complete purity because we fear God.”
I think that is enough proof sir...cut the garbage will you???
Rev 14:7 “Fear God,” he shouted. "Give glory to him. For the time has come when he will sit as judge. Worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water." 2 Peter 2:17 “Show respect for everyone. Love your Christian brothers and sisters. Fear God. Show respect for the king.”
Eph. 5:21 “subjecting yourselves one to another in the fear of Messiah.”
Well,
there you have it, fear both GOD and HIS MESSIAH!!!!!!!!!!!
GEE,
I cannot believe the ignorance of some people, but then again I can
nowadays.
You said “What is the Old Covenant? Deuteronomy 4:13: the “ten commandments.”
Ummm...I beg your pardon sir, but you ignorance just showed itself. There are not 10 commandments, there are 613...in The Torah alone that many, not even counting the Renewed Covenant!!!...and by the way, do we now “toss the 10?” LOL!!!
You said “Romans 3:20: “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”....no kidding sir, no flesh is justified by keeping them, so what?...just because you are not justified by them does not render them useless. Gee, do we now stop honoring our mothers and fathers (a command) so things do not go well for us and we do not live long on the earth either?....that's whacked!!!
You said “God's law was given so that all people could see how sinful they were. But as people sinned more and more, God's wonderful kindness became more abundant.”...So I can see the grace of GOD in the midst of the TORAH right here...grace, loving-kindness, mercy and peace towards HIS people has always been in the scripture.
It sure ain't something new at all.
Romans 6:14: “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace.”...that's right, under the grace needed to obey HIS commandments. Yes!!!...Grace does not condemn the commandment.
You said “There is nothing wrong with the Law. The Law is holy. We were the problem. We were too weak by our flesh to keep it.”...best thing you have said yet, The Torah is Holy...not to trampled underfoot by some “grace happy nuts.”
Messiah said “do not think that I have come to destroy / abolish the Torah, I have come to hit the mark or aim of it or fulfill it all” “Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to bring strife and division!” “For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.” “So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven. But I warn you--unless you obey God better than the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees do, you can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven at all!” (ouch that one hurts a lot)...Hummm...no grace mentioned here? What to do?
Personally I love the commandments of GOD, (both in the Torah and the Brit' Ha' Dasha (Renewed Testimony)...they are holy and separated, I follow them because I love them, He wrote them for our instructions, not to save us with them. Salvation is a gift, I do not do them begrudgingly. The Torah is wonderful when understood, not to be observed to save, but out of respect for THE AUTHOR of it all. I'm very well aware of the fact that if you keep HIS instructions, blessings follow for sure.
Paul said “the Torah is holy, just and good”
“Therefore we conclude, that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Or is God the God of Yehudim (Jews) only? Isn't he the God of Goyim (Nations) also? Yes, of Goyim also, since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, (humm, interesting he says GOD justifies them, I know if I had to cut off part of my penis, it would be out of faith, not out of fun buddy) and the uncircumcised through faith. Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not!
- Today some well meaning but ignorant and some not so ignorant people do!!!
In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.”(imagine that?...faith is equated with fulfillment)...“Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.”
The point that the Torah does not make one saved by following it, faith in Messiah is salvation, but HE did not destroy or nullify the Torah, HE said so Himself. No you do not need to be circumcised to be saved either, I ain't no idiot. WE cannot do a thing to save ourselves, so we receive Yeshua (Jesus) and have faith in His accomplished work of redemption by offering Himself up for us. PERIOD....Then we follow what HE orders us to do, commandments, they are NOT SUGGESTIONS!!!!!
The FACT is that ALL of the Apostles gave the people plenty of commandments to follow after they confessed Messiah as GOD, they “told them what to do”...obey this, that and the other...to follow!!!
If we do not observe any of the commandments / law now. Well let's just break some of them and do this. Rob, steal, murder, have sex with everyone we want, worship idols, covet everything we see, not repay our debts, have sex with our parents and children, have sex with our wives when she is on her period, not love our neighbor or GOD, take an oath and not do it, testify falsely, rape and plunder, become a bunch of drunks, ruin something and not pay for it, harm our neighbors property and not admit it, dishonor our mother and father, swindle, rebel against authority......gosh as I go on, I realize that some who say they are believers do these things, but oh, wait!!!, they are “under grace”
I forgot that part....Humm...let's not judge them, just give them grace and look the other way. Ho...ho...ho!!!
Next we will be saying “to hell with the laws of our country too”....and how about the law of gravity? Hey, if there is not law, give me your wife!!! Do you get the point now???
- Of course we have law!!!
To live by faith is to fulfill the Torah and establish it like Paul said and Messiah said. Also Abraham, it was accounted to him as righteousness and faith because he followed the commandment / instructions of GOD, if he had not, He would have found no favor. It takes FAITH to follow TORAH. Always has!!
- Messiah is THE LIVING TORAH...always has been, always will be too.
Or course we cannot offer up animals any longer, but we do offer our bodies do we not?...or is that a command too? Speaking of commands, the Renewed Covenant is full of them...Some are even harder than the “OLD”...Hummmm..so let's see if we can find grace in any of these commandments man.
And I wonder if you will read them all either? Messiah said “you search the scriptures because you think you find life in them, but I tell you they speak of ME”....HE is called the living TORAH.
You are my friends, if you do whatever I command you. (how's that for a start?)
I command these things to you, that you may love one another.
But to the married I command -- not I, but the Lord -- that the wife not leave her husband
We have confidence in the Lord concerning you, that you both do and will do the things we command.
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we appeal to such people--no, we command them: Settle down and get to work. Earn your own living.
Command and teach these things.
Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them.
For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.
So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
But I warn you--unless you obey God better than the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees do, you can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven at all! (ouch that one hurts a lot)
Why ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "Only God is good. But to answer your question, you can receive eternal life if you keep the commandments.
He said to him, "Which ones?" Yeshua said, "'You shall not murder.' 'You shall not commit adultery.' 'You shall not steal.' 'You shall not offer false testimony.'
'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "
All the other commandments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.
Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.
AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.
If you love me, obey my commandments.
Those who obey my commandments are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them, and I will love them. And I will reveal myself to each one of them.
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
OK...now that's 20 so far, are you with me on it? Do any of them say grace with the particular commandments?
until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen,
For it makes no difference whether or not a man has been circumcised. The important thing is to keep God's commandments.
If you claim to be a prophet or think you are very spiritual, you should recognize that what I am saying is a command from the Lord himself.
My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. (You have received instructions (commandments) about him; if he comes to you, welcome him.)
for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
And how can we be sure that we belong to him? By obeying his commandments.
If someone says, "I belong to God," but doesn't obey God's commandments, that person is a liar and does not live in the truth.
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
Those who obey God's commandments live in fellowship with him, and he with them. And we know he lives in us because the Holy Spirit lives in us.
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. (see there, no burden, pretty simple)
This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.
Then the dragon became angry at the woman, and he declared war against the rest of her children--all who keep God's commandments and confess that they belong to Jesus. (why is the dragon upset about keeping “commandments” if we do not have to”)
Let this encourage God's holy people to endure persecution patiently and remain firm to the end, obeying his commands and trusting in Jesus.
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
***Well now, quite the list eh? Perhaps you might edit your “Hub / commentary” sir?
Paul said that we do not take grace and stand with it saying toss the Torah, he said “GOD FORBID!!!”
In Torah one would “do and live”...in Messiah one “lives and does.”
Faith without works is dead, killed, means nothing, useless and is a joke!!!
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Regards,
Quietnessandtrust
Living on the earth like this???
- Do what now???
I am writing this because I see an awful lot of talk about the difference between the "10 Commandments" and the "Other Commandments" (603 of them). So I am going to ask a few simple questions of any...
Commandments I can follow
- Commandments / Instructions I can follow
In searching the scriptures, listening to other peoples opinions both Jewish, Messianic Jewish and Christian, Rabbi's, Messianic Rabbi's and Pastors, Teachers and Prophets, and just plain regular believers...
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Comments
I offer this comment for your personal consideration. I do not ask that you approve it. But brother, please do consider this. Had the post "day of Pentecost" words of Yeshua been quoted in the Bible, they would be very different from what we read in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Messiah ministered instruction of the old covenant because the new had not yet been cut (via his blood at Calvary). The gift of holy spirit had not yet been poured out. The mystery had not yet been revealed. The message of the new covenant was revealed to the Apostle Paul. The new covenant does not contradict the old, it is the means for its fulfillment. Yahweh does the work now, as we accept Messiah's accomplished work as true. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John belong to the old covenant, they are record of the cutting of the new covenant, not a record of what it is. Brother, I know the you are sincere, so please be sure, yeah doublely sure, that you are representing Yahweh in truth before you argue against presentations of the good news He has sent for us to believe, regarding His Son Yeshua Messiah our Lord. People hold on to the old because they lack understanding and therefore trust in the new to accomplish all that is in the old, and beyond. People such as this fit into this category -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JZ2FC9O6-g
b4u2c, I love the message of grace! The laws are a burden to us as we have to remember them all, recheck ourselves, be afraid (fear God) if we break even one....but oh, the relief that comes from the guidance of the Holy Spirit instead, that we move as He moves, say and do as He says and does, and when He says to do it (even on a Sabbath).
I do believe we are to revere our Lord, respect Him, be in awe of His Majesty, in that the New Testament does indeed say we "fear Him" in this definition. His yoke is light, praise God! I appreciate your heart, Stephen, to stay with the Jewish tradition of keeping every commandment, and yet knowing when you break even one, you carry the grief of yourself for the Spirit? No, Stephen.
Grace doesn't give us a "license to sin" as Jude 1:4 states, "Some people have slipped in among you unnoticed. Not long ago they were condemned in writing for the following reason: They are people to whom God means nothing. They use God's grace as an excuse for sexual freedom and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
The Spirit now gives us this law: James 4:17 "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." Be at peace, brother. We are no longer in "bondage" to the law. We are set free in Jesus' holy name! Galatians truly addresses this thoroughly.
Grace in Scriptural terms means favored, chosen, preferred. It refers to the Elect. And no one becomes part of the Elect by choice. You are either saved or damned, and you have no control over it. Those who teach free will do not understand that "choosing" is a form of work, not grace. So, sit back, relax, and quit preaching. Nothing said or done can change the number of the Elect. Even the very hairs of your head are counted! (This is the stuff upon which Protestant Christianity was built during the 16th and 17th centuries. It wasn't until Jonathan Edwards--and later, John Wesley--in America decided that God could not operate that way. That's when free will become the false doctrine that has stood its ground ever since. However, though you may believe in free will, it is not scriptural. Period.)
Scary stuff. No wonder you all fear God. A God like that is a monster.
Richard speaks, your doctrine is of the damned! The Great Commission was given by Jesus Himself in Mark 16:15-16 "And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
Now, let's compare that your your damnable doctrine of Satan "So, sit back, relax, and quit preaching." Our Lord Jesus rebuke you! His Name is above the name of your blinding god of this world. Repent!
And until you repent, please listen to the doctrine you preach, "sit back, relax, and quit preaching!" for you preach lies! May our Lord silence you!
Dear Carrie Bradshaw:-)
THANKS FOR TELLING THAT RICHARD KNUCKLEHEAD WHERE TO GET OFF SIS!!!...HE SERVES UP HOT STEAMING HORSE TURDS FOR SURE!!! :-)
I am pleased that you understand the fear of GOD as well and that you get where I am coming from I think. I am disappointed that the guy called "b4u2c" made no admission of being totally wrong about the New Testament never saying the terms "fear GOD" or "THE FEAR OF GOD"...funny he just left that out. I am not sure his reasoning capacity is fully functional so I may not even reply.
2 THINGS TO ADDRESS WITH YOU SIS:...When you said above...
"I love the message of grace! The laws are a burden to us as we have to remember them all, recheck ourselves, be afraid (fear God) if we break even one"
I know that we are saved by favor / grace...not of ourselves...I also know the commandments in both Covenants. One can be saved hanging on a cross next to Messiah and never have obeyed GOD before that. And one can come to Messiah and learn HIS instructions too..."AFTER" he is "saved."
I love grace to and have been granted much of it, but as far as the instructions (law as you say) of GOD are concerned, they are no burden at all and that is even what the scriptures say about them, they are easy as Messiah said "My yoke is easy and my burden light"...not a big bummer like so many say...they are a joy to follow and if we drop the ball sometimes, grace is there to forgive..they are married to each other. We are talking about the same Messiah who said "if you love ME, KEEP MY commandments / law / instructions...HE did not consider them to be a burden, HE had a heavenly point f view on them because HE WROTE THEM ALL.
Remember that Paul said the "law is spiritual"!!!...not a burden.
AND HE IS TOTALLY CORRECT BECAUSE IF YOU IN YOUR FLESH TRY TO FOLLOW THEM, NOT KNOWING THE SPIRITUAL NATURE OF THEM AND SEEING MESSIAH IN THEM, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE A MISERY AND OTHERS TOO.
And as far as "remembering them all?"...well I know this much, I can remember about a million things, memorizing what I enjoy is no burden what so ever. We memorize all kinds of stuff and when you are trained as a child, when you get older they're is no remembering at all, it comes naturally does it not?
Then you said:
"I appreciate your heart, Stephen, to stay with the Jewish tradition of keeping every commandment, and yet knowing when you break even one, you carry the grief of yourself for the Spirit? No, Stephen."
Ummm, I am sorry, is this a question or statement? Can you clarify it both ways please Carrie?...guess I am a bit slow? can you reword it please?
The law is not Jewish or Gentile, it is spiritual and that is how I observe it all, not out of compulsions...really!!! And certainly not to be saved.
Stephen.
I think you should put your New Testament scripture refererences in this hub. Also, are you stating that 613 commandments are written in the Torah? How many of them are Old Testament and how many in the New Testament? I feel your spirit is a bit harsh toward our brother in the Lord, and for one who is proudly keeping all the commandments, this is not a good witness. You can choose to post this or not, but it's how I feel.
Can you plese answer me on this when you said..."I appreciate your heart, Stephen, to stay with the Jewish tradition of keeping every commandment, and yet knowing when you break even one, you carry the grief of yourself for the Spirit? No, Stephen."
Ummm, I am sorry, is this a question or statement? Can you clarify it both ways please Carrie?...guess I am a bit slow? can you reword it please?
You said "I think you should put your New Testament scripture references in this hub"....I say...What references are you meaning Carrie? I quoted at least 50 New Testament passages so I am confused.
You said "Also, are you stating that 613 commandments are written in the Torah? How many of them are Old Testament and how many in the New Testament?"
Well the 613 are found in THE TORAH alone including one that says this..
"If you find a bird's nest on the ground or in a tree and there are young ones or eggs in it with the mother sitting in the nest, do not take the mother with the young and you shall certainly let the mother go, but the young you may take for yourself, in order that it may be well with you and that you may prolong your days."
Interesting to note that the same promise is made when we are told to honor our own father and mother. This is a command, not a suggestion. If you do not do it then things will not go well for you and you will not live long. GOD cares about the details.
In THE NEW COVENANT I have listed some 50 commands in this hub and the question really is "WHAT COMMANDMENTS ARE BEING TALKED ABOUT?"
Hummmmm...I let you think about that one.
As far as b4u2c says: is concerned, he said this to me.
Here is what he said "I don't post hub articles as a means to discuss or search for truth."
And my answer to that is this.
IF YOU ARE CLOSED TO DISCUSSING THINGS WITH PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE SEARCHING FOR TRUTH AND THEY CANNOT TALK TO YOU OR DISCUSS "your opinions / hubs" THEN YOU GO DIRECTLY AGAINST WHAT HAPPENS ALL THROUGHOUT THE SCRIPTURES...
MESSIAH, JOHN, PETER, PAUL AND JAMES ALL HAD RIGOROUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT TRUTH ALL THE TIME, WITH LOTS OF PEOPLE AND EVEN THE STATEMENTS MESSIAH MADE IN PUBLIC (PUBLICATIONS / PUBLISHED / HUBS) WERE DEBATED OPENLY.
THEY WERE NOT "I GOT IT TOGETHER AND AIN'T TALKING TO ANYONE ABOUT IT"....THAT'S LIKE HIDING YOUR LIGHT UNDER A BUSH.
HERE IS GOD'S TAKE ON IT "COME NOW, LET US REASON (ARGUE IS THE WORD) TOGETHER"....HE DOES MAKE STATEMENTS AND THEN SAY SCREW YOU...NO, HE IS AVAILABLE TO TALK ABOUT HIS TRUTH...SO I GO BY THAT EXAMPLE.
I love you in THE LORD GOD sister Carrie and you know that. If you think me harsh, so be it. I can be harsh when it calls for it. I think we both wield a very, very sharp sword...and when I swing mine, I mean business with it...and talk about harsh, if you look at the words of Messiah, I do not even come close to the way HE spoke.
I love people enough to tell it like it is. The truth is often shrewd and harsh but it is for our good. I do not believe in coloring it at all.
AND AGAIN...I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR SOME "teacher" WHO DOES NOT EVEN HAVE THE FEAR OF GOD INSIDE HIM AND TELLS OTHERS THAT IT IS NOT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT....NOR SHOULD YOU SISTER.
SHALOM
Fearing God is in the New Testament, but for the believer, it is that of awe, reverence and respect, not trembling in fear like we're going to Hell, because we're saved by the blood of the Lamb, not by keeping laws. The unsaved must fear God in that He will destroy both body and soul in hell for THEM.
Regarding references, please state the Book, Chapter and Verse, not just what is written. This would help readers to look up and study for themselves, as we are to do (i.e. those of the synagogue in Berea).
If someone does not wish to argue or "reason" with others on HubPages in the comments, he or she has the right to do so. Those who bless his writings bless him. Those who curse his writings curse him, as you've loudly made your opinion known (in a very condescending manner, in my opinion). These things would more respectfully be done via email and in private, but that's your right as well. We are all witnesses for Jesus Christ and will consistenly battle flesh against Spirit.
Now, to answer your question regarding my statement/question posed to you: For me, to love God in keeping the law would mean my heart would grieve if I broke even one, let alone 50 (yet, to break even one means we've broken them all, the Word says). Remembering 613 + laws and burdening myself, outside of God's great grace, to keep every one of them would rob me of the freedom and joy I have been given in Christ Jesus. It may be a piece of cake for you because you were born and raised with Jewish teachings and traditions, so they are habitual. Not for the Greek or Gentile. So, if it doesn't grieve you or the Spirit of God for you to break even one of the hundreds of commandments, then keep on worshiping Him in this way, though you don't have to. That is your right, as long as you don't impose the written law upon others who walk according to grace alone, and do as the Spirit leads them to do (many that are not written commandments in the Bible). I trust you know what I mean.
Now, I don't wish to contend back and forth on your hub anymore. As long as the commenting is respectfully done, I will answer. But again, I'm not required to reason unless the Spirit of God burdens me to do so. His yoke is light. He will guide me as He will guide you. Peace to the storm in Jesus' name.
P.S. What our brother was saying about Fearing God in the Old Testament and the fear of God in the New Testament is that God poured out His wrath and judgment on them when the laws were not kept. When we are in Christ Jesus, we no longer fear His judgment and wrath. The unbeliever, because they are not covered by the grace of God will indeed be subject to His wrath and judgment. God disciplines those He loves, but we by no means will be victimized unto destruction. There is therefore now NO JUDGMENT or CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Amen.
To address the "P.S." part...I will insert comments next to yours to be fair. And I will post another answer to your longer comments under this one.
"P.S. What our brother was saying about Fearing God in the Old Testament and the fear of God in the New Testament is that God poured out His wrath and judgment on them when the laws were not kept. (true...yet he himself will not admit that "the fear of GOD" or to "fear GOD" is even in the NT...so I have no respect for the man, I showed him 15 places where fear GOD is said) When we are in Christ Jesus, we no longer fear His judgment and wrath. (true, unless we walk out side HIS teachings, just try it and find out what discipline can really mean without of course being obliterated) The unbeliever, because they are not covered by the grace of God will indeed be subject to His wrath and judgment. (true) God disciplines those He loves, but we by no means will be victimized unto destruction. (hummm....no reply because the scripture says it best for believers who dare tread where they should not, it it written...1 Cor. 5:3-5
Even though I am not there with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit.* Concerning the one who has done this, I have already passed judgment
Footnote:
* Or in spirit.
in the name of the Lord Jesus. You are to call a meeting of the church,* and I will be there in spirit, and the power of the Lord Jesus will be with you as you meet.
Footnote:
* Or In the name of the Lord Jesus, you are to call a meeting of the church.
Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed* and he himself* will be saved when the Lord returns.
Footnotes:* Or so that he will die; Greek reads for the destruction of the flesh.* Greek and the spirit.
Gosh, talk about the stark, harsh reality of Paul...man oh man. He for sure "past JUDGMENT" on the man is says...I just report it.
There is therefore now NO JUDGMENT or CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Amen."....Ummm, well yes, the key part there is the words "in Christ Jesus"...but that guy above apparently was "out"...and I personally do not wish to find out where that line is, commandments are for our good, they are not a burden at all...just follow the NT commandments and see if the OT ones are not from the same PERSON. John said "we know that we are HIS "if" we obey HIS commandments"
Shalom to you as always Carrie.
Todd Stephen
In reply to your other comments...see inserted comments from me please.
Here are the words in the NT for the word “FEAR”...and the OT words mean exactly the same thing, it is way beyond respect or reverence. HOLY TERROR comes to mind after reading these definitions that are not watered down to make it more “seeker friendly” as we so often here today, making it “acceptable” to people to fill the building. This is not my choice of words, it is what it says it is and I just report it as I find it written. :-)
I will quote you and insert my reply next to your words to be fair, something I wish all would do to keep everything straight and in context to remove any confusion.
You said “Fearing God is in the New Testament, but for the believer, it is that of awe, reverence and respect, not trembling in fear like we're going to Hell...because we're saved by the blood of the Lamb, not by keeping laws. The unsaved must fear God in that He will destroy both body and soul in hell for THEM”.....Ummm, well yes we know that we who are covered by HIS blood are not going there, that's for sure...yet the fear of GOD is the exact same term in both OT and NT...no doubt. And when we are visited by even an angel much more THE KING Yahshua, trust me sister, we will fit into the following definitions, no doubt. HE IS SO HOLY that terror strikes you if you get within a 100 miles of HIS PRESENCE. We can only come to conclusion when we see out utter sinfulness even after we have started getting to know HIM, we cannot be presumptuous towards HIM. There are not 2 different kinds of the fear of GOD, one for us and one for them?...NO. Each time an angel or THE LORD appears in the whole scripture, everyone falls on their face because of terror, dread and amazement.
?????...phobos...1) fear, dread, terror a) that which strikes terror 2) reverence for one's husband.
?????...phobe...1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away) a) to put to flight, to flee b) to fear, be afraid 1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences b) of those struck with amazement 2) to fear, be afraid of one 3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm) c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience.
??????????...eulabeomai...1) to act cautiously, circumspectly 2) to beware, fear 3) to reverence, stand in awe of.
You said “as you've loudly made your opinion known (in a very condescending manner, in my opinion). These things would more respectfully be done via email and in private, but that's your right as well.”...Well I answered on Hub pages because the other person posted his opinion on my hub, and I aslo told him stuff in an email as well.
You said “Now, to answer your question regarding my statement/question posed to you: For me, to love God in keeping the law would mean my heart would grieve if I broke even one, let alone 50 (yet, to break even one means we've broken them all, the Word says). Well, Messiah said “If you love ME, obey MY commandments”...So that is the only reason I try to keep what HE said to do, not because I “goose step” to it all, it is out of love and if HE corrects on something, I repent and move on. Paul said the “law is spiritual” and that is how I follow it, in both OT and NT....animal sacrifices are not needed though, but if we think we can open the OT and NT and pick and choose, we are mistaken. Then you continued here...me Remembering 613 + laws and burdening myself, outside of God's great grace, to keep every one of them would rob me of the freedom and joy I have been given in Christ Jesus. Well, I find that grace to obey commandments is what I need, I do not obey HIM out side of grace for sure. You con't... and It may be a piece of cake for you because you were born and raised with Jewish teachings and traditions, so they are habitual. Not for the Greek or Gentile. Well, I was not born and raised in a Jewish home, rather a pagan home and when I read the scriptures after conversion I saw what it said and did it, OT / NT...it did not matter, a command is a command....you con't.. So, if it doesn't grieve you or the Spirit of God for you to break even one of the hundreds of commandments, then keep on worshiping Him in this way, though you don't have to. That is your right, as long as you don't impose the written law upon others who walk according to grace alone, and do as the Spirit leads them to do (many that are not written commandments in the Bible). I trust you know what I mean. Well, I do not follow commandments not found in scripture, nor do “impose” upon anyone written “law”...instructions...I do believe that “you are saved by grace through faith and that faith without works is useless and dead”...we are given the grace to follow instructions and plenty of commandments are found in the NT, so we can start there for sure. That is why I quotes some 36 places where the word commandments are found in it alone. These came from Yahshua, Peter, John, Paul, James etc....not me.
No, one does not need to be circumcised to be saved, that is clear. If you want to only obey the NT commandments, that's cool...but I find it hard to get one person to even tell me they know them. All they seem to know is “I got some grace and freedom”....my question is “to do what? Nothing?”..Furthermore, what about those 10 commandments, which ones do we follow?
Being saved is one thing but, the scriptures teach that we are sanctified by HIS COMMANDMENTS.
You said “Now, I don't wish to contend back and forth on your hub anymore.” Well, nor do I with you. I was answering to what is posted is all, giving an answer for the hope that lay within me.
Love, shalom, blessings, grace and mercy to you Carrie,
Todd Stephen
I'm working on a hub now about how the entire law was summed up in just two commandments. I hope you remain open to the New Covenant, brother.
Dear Carrie...
I am well aware of the fact that the commandments are all built on 2, this is elementary, but you can and will still write the hub and I will read it. Keep in mind that the commandments were hung and or built on the 2 most important of them all, and yet it does not nullify all the others, that is ludicrous to the max!!! They were the foundation for the others, the others are not given because HE just tossed them in for good measure, as you well know.
By now I would have hoped that you could see that I observe both testaments and have stated so in many ways. How could I have learned so much about both of them in the last 30 years and ignore any of it?...if I am lying..may I be struck dead today!!!...and yet, I shall still be saved as it is written...no joke intended!!!
If the Torah is holy, just and good as Paul said, then why am I even talking about this? It is written "the law is spiritual"..."if it had not come, I would not have known what sin is"..."sin is the violation of Torah"..."we are under grace, a covering for when we fail"..."so now, if we are under grace, DO WE? just go on sinning? GOD FORBID!!!"...this is straight from Paul, not me. *mercy mercy*
So, what sin is he talking about, the thing he just mentioned, disobeying the commandments...so I will ask again...which commandments? Can I please get an answer?...does anyone even know the commandments of the NT, much less the OT?...anyone at all???...Of course some do, so does that mean they toss them in the toilet?...and exclaim "I am under grace!!!"...not according to Paul, he said "GOD FORBID that you do that"
if we fall short of HIS instructions, we are to repent and move on in grace. Can't we see that grace and commandments are married together in the NT??? Does anyone see this??? I teach them both, always have, I do not pick and choose. PLEASE open your ears and listen.
The law is a spiritual law of instructions to help in our sanctification, not some sack of rocks to carry around. And by the way, you do know that the apostles "gave the Goyeim / Nations / Gentiles...many new laws / commandments to follow" don't you?
I want to keep the 10 commandments, is that wrong? Am I doing it to be saved?...PLEASE NOW everyone!!!...if I want to follow any of the other "HOLY, JUST AND GOOD COMMANDMENTS"...IT IS BECAUSE I SEE MESSIAH IN THEM ALL, NOT BECAUSE THEY SAVE ME AT ALL.
But I will say, that if anyone wants to run around breaking all the commandments because they are under grace, have at it but, let me know where you are at all times so I do not follow your path.
I hope this makes it all very clear, even more so than I have said before.
Maybe YOU all...should sit down and look up the commandments and read them and ask your self....and so should the others...."self, as I read these, how can I argue that they are evil for me to do, in fact, if they were the law of our country, we would have a lot more peace, law and order, so to bring peace, perhaps I will follow...ummmm...let's say every 7Th one I find."
Stepehn
Okay, now that I've completed my study of the scriptures, you said even yourself, in this hub:
(I assume this is a rendition of Matthew 5:20?) "But I warn you--unless you obey God better than the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees do, you can't enter the Kingdom of Heaven at all!"
The "religious law" is the halakhah (Jewish law of 613 commandments and ordinances). God's Law, written by His Own finger is the 10 Commandments, which is summarized as two: the first four are Loving God; the final six are Loving our Neighbor. This is the New Covenant in the blood of Jesus.
Galatians 3:10-12 “For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law [not the stone tablets] to perform them.’ Now that no one is justified by the law before God is evident; for, ‘The righteous man shall live by faith.’ However, the law is not of faith; on the contrary…”
Why don't you take the identity of b4u2c off this hub. He's changed His message and you should just address the issue, not try to openly shame the person. God loves him and to shame your brother in the Lord is to shame the Lord.
You seem to know what he changed, so what is it?
Also, he has no way to comment on his hubs and normally when one can, others know what the comments are pertaining to, a point of reference.
He has nothing to fear, he publsihed the hub and has stated his opinion of my comments both on this hub and in emails...I left what he said here and everyone already knows who he is.
And because you are handing out the "WHY DON'T YOUS"....why don't you stop trying to be "THE HUB POLICE" AND QUIT TRYING TO MODERATE EVERYONES COMMENTS...GO GET A JOB!!!
IN FACT HERE HE IS MOCKING MY HUB VIA YOUR HUB IN THE COMMENT SECTION..AND I HAVE NO FEAR ABOUT IT AND NEITHER DOES HE. HE DOES NOT NEED YOU TO SAVE HIM FROM ME SISTER!!!...YOU AGREE WITH HIM AS YOU SAY IN YOUR COMMENTS BELOW HIS, AND THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS.
b4u2c says:2 days ago
Carrie! I have a problem with this! I WANNA WORK! I WANNA EARN GOD'S FAVOR! I WANT BOASTING RIGHTS!!! But nooooo, you had to come along in your walk of God's power and love, shining light all over the place, using the Scriptures as the standard for truth and letting them speak for God. Now what am I going to do Carrie? How am I suppose to argue with God? How can I deny that God loves me and wants me to have all good things by grace in Christ, and that the boasting rights belong to Him and His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord? You're basicallly saying here (and with the links to some of your other articles) that we should be happy with things like eternal life, no shame, no fear, no worry, no doubt, no condemnation, being filled with joy, love, having peace.. and so many more of such things... in exchange for our boasting rights. I don't think so sister! I want to earn it all myself so I can brag about it. You'll see when we get to heaven Carrie, I'll be all like, "look here God, look at what I did to demand your favor and approval, now move over Big guy, b4u2c is here."
Carrie Bradshaw says:2 days ago
b4u2c ~ you are so right on. Love the humor and the truth in it, brother!
b4u2c says:2 days ago
Well Carrie, it's just that I know I can keep God's commandments, even though He says I can't, save that it is done in me and through me by His grace in Christ. He's wrong and I'm right. I can do it, just you watch... I'll show you (as soon as I pick my self up from yet another failed attempt that is). I know that my so called love for Him is bigger than His love for me. My ability is bigger than what Jesus Christ did for us. I can obey God perfectly, after all I do love Him more than anyone else. Just give me more time. I'll show all you people how it's done and teach you how to do it yourself.
Carrie Bradshaw says:2 days ago
Stop it, now! People are going to think you're serious, brother :-) I love you, and thanks for the smiles :-)
b4u2c says:2 days ago
I love you in Christ sister. And I am humbled by the presence of God in your ministry. I thank our Father through Christ Jesus our Lord for every one of your most excellent postings of truth. May the truth that Christ is all and in all in the church of his one body always have preeminence in our hearts and minds, now and forever, by him and through him. Amen.
I see nothing wrong ~~ I'm not sure what you see, but our brother is stating that people boast in their keeping of the commandments and ordinances, which the Lord even says they (the people) fail. The 10 Commandments were written by God's own finger and have not passed away. As I said, those ten are summed up in the first four being Love of God and the latter six the love of man.
Ephesians 2:8-9 addresses those who boast in the works of the law: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should BOAST." Amen.
I have stated many times...SHEEEEEZ!!!...AGAIN FOR ALL TO HEAR OPENLY PLEASE LISTEN...I DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT FOLLOW TORAH, COMMANDS, INSTRUCTIONS, LAWS, ETC...BECAUSE THEY SAVE ME NOR IS IT A BOAST OF MINE...I HAVE SAID THAT I FOLLOW THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE HOLY, JUST AND GOOD (PER GOD, MOSES, YAHSHUA, PAUL, JOHN ETC...)
IF THEY HAVE NOT PASSED AWAY THEN THAT IS WHY I DO THEM AND IF I DROP THE BALL, GRACE IS THERE TO HELP ME IN MY TIME OF NEED AND I APPROACH THE THROWN OF GRACE WITH BOLDNESS. THEY ARE NOT A CURSE TO ME BECAUSE I DO NOT TRY TO OBEY THEM TO BE SAVED, WHICH IS WHAT IT MEANS BY BEING A CURSE. THE LAWS SHOW YOU YOUR SIN, SO WHEN I SEE MY SIN BECAUSE IT POINTS IT OUT TO ME, I TURN FROM IT TO OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. DO YOU GET IT?
BY THE WAY THE INSTRUCTIONS COMMANDED IN LEV.11 ARE FROM GOD AS WELL AS THOSE IN OTHER PLACES!!!..NOT FROM MEN...AS YOU PUBLISHED...IT SAYS "THUS SAYS THE LORD"...IF THEY ARE HOLY, JUST AND GOOD, THEN LEAVE ME ALONE ABOUT FOLLOWING THEM, LEST YOU START TEACHING ME TO BREAK THEM. MATT 5:17-19...AND I HAVE NOT ONE DOUBT WHICH COMMANDMENTS YAHSHUA IS TALKING ABOUT HERE.
"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them.
I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved.
So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
BY THE WAY THE LAST TIME I LOOKED OUTSIDE, HEAVEN AND EARTH ARE STILL HERE!!! UNDERSTOOD???
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE ORIGINAL COVENANTS, DO NOT FOLLOW THEM, IT IS YOUR CHOICE. ALSO, DO NOT QUOTE THE OLDER SCRIPTURES IF YOU THINK THEY HAVE BEEN TOSSED OUT BECAUSE OF THE NEW (RENEWED)
YOU REMIND ME OF THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS "THEY TEACH THINGS THEY KNOW NOT"
"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them." He did with His death.
I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved."
His purpose was achieved. His death.
UMMM....YEA RIGHT....SO DID HEAVEN AND EARTH DISAPPEAR WHEN HE DIED TOO? LOL.....GET REAL....YOUR REASONING LACKS WISDOM SISTER.
This is God's Word in regard to what is taking place here:
Titus 3:9 ”But shun foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the law; for they are unprofitable and worthless.”
Romans 14:1-3 "Now accept the one who is weak in the faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only [ordinance]. Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him."
Romans 14:14 "I know and am conviced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean."
Romans 14:20 "Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food [ordinance]. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense."
Romans 14:22 "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who des not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemed if he eats [ordinance], because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin."
[brackets mine]
Hummmm....My answer to that is I can, I will and I have many, many, many times become all things to all men and won them over TO the Messiah / Christ. Anyone who knows me will say that I am not "proud / boastful" about keeping the commandments of GOD (not talking about the Halakhah/Rabbinical Writings/Oral Laws/Etc...) talking about the commandments (or words) of GOD given to Moses of the which there are 613 of them, only 10 of them are called "The ten commandments"...the rest are still commandments and I think you are confused about the terms and really need to talk to a Jewish / or Messianic Jewish Authority because you seem to have ignored what I say even though I have studied it for 30 years.
I am at liberty in Messiah to become what He wants me to be like towards someone in order to win them, no problem. I know the balance and am not stupid.
Furthermore I do accept those who are weak in faith and the strong, I hang out with both and sinners too...just like Yahshua did and Paul and Peter and on and on sister...when I am served dinner at a home, I do not question what is set in front of me, I eat it with thanksgiving and salute the cook.
When someone comes at me and says that what I am doing is useless, I give a counter reasoning. I ask them "can you become as a Jew to a Jew in order to win them?"...they say "NO"...I say "then leave me alone and move on"
WE ARE DONE HERE CARRIE :-) XXX SHALOM
I suggest you understand the Law of Moses and the Law of God are indeed separate and placed in two separate places in the Arch of the Covenant. The 10 are in the Arch. The Mitzvot (the Law of Moses) are on the side of it. The Mitzvot is no longer a letter of law we live by in the New Covenant. Post this if you wish, but to be DONE is to remain stuck in your traditions.
If I keep a command, a law, a tradition, then it is only in order to win another over to THE MESSIAH...I have this liberty in HIM to do it just like Paul and Peter. Again...feel free to read the 613 commandments all given by GOD and tell me which one's you dislike...OK. Thank you :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot To know there is a God Ex. 20:2Not to entertain thoughts of other gods besides Him Ex. 20:3To know that He is One Deut. 6:4To love Him Deut. 6:5To fear Him Deut. 10:20To sanctify His Name Lev. 22:32Not to profane His Name Lev. 22:32Not to destroy objects associated with His Name Deut. 12:4To listen to the prophet speaking in His Name Deut. 18:15Not to test the prophet unduly Deut. 6:16To emulate His ways Deut. 28:9To cleave to those who know Him Deut. 10:20To love other Jews Lev. 19:18To love converts Deut. 10:19Not to hate fellow Jews Lev. 19:17To reprove a sinner Lev. 19:17Not to embarrass others Lev. 19:17Not to oppress the weak Ex. 22:21Not to speak derogatorily of others Lev. 19:16Not to take revenge Lev. 19:18Not to bear a grudge Lev. 19:18To learn Torah Deut. 6:7To honor those who teach and know Torah Lev. 19:32Not to inquire into idolatry Lev. 19:4Not to follow the whims of your heart or what your eyes see Num. 15:39Not to blaspheme Ex. 22:27Not to worship idols in the manner they are worshiped Ex. 20:5Not to worship idols in the four ways we worship God Ex. 20:5Not to make an idol for yourself Ex. 20:4Not to make an idol for others Lev. 19:4Not to make human forms even for decorative purposes Ex. 20:20Not to turn a city to idolatry Ex. 23:13To burn a city that has turned to idol worship Deut. 13:17Not to rebuild it as a city Deut. 13:17Not to derive benefit from it Deut. 13:18Not to missionize an individual to idol worship Deut. 13:12Not to love the idolater Deut. 13:9Not to cease hating the idolater Deut. 13:9Not to save the idolater Deut. 13:9Not to say anything in the idolater's defense Deut. 13:9Not to refrain from incriminating the idolater Deut. 13:9Not to prophesize in the name of idolatry Deut. 13:14Not to listen to a false prophet Deut. 13:4Not to prophesize falsely in the name of God Deut. 18:20Not to be afraid of killing the false prophet Deut. 18:22Not to swear in the name of an idol Ex. 23:13Not to perform ov (medium) Lev. 19:31Not to perform yidoni ("magical seer") Lev. 19:31Not to pass your children through the fire to Molech Lev. 18:21Not to erect a pillar in a public place of worship Deut. 16:22Not to bow down on smooth stone Lev. 26:1Not to plant a tree in the Temple courtyard Deut. 16:21To destroy idols and their accessories Deut. 12:2Not to derive benefit from idols and their accessories Deut. 7:26Not to derive benefit from ornaments of idols Deut. 7:25Not to make a covenant with idolaters Deut. 7:2Not to show favor to them Deut. 7:2Not to let them dwell in the Land of Israel Ex. 23:33Not to imitate them in customs and clothing Lev. 20:23Not to be superstitious Lev. 19:26Not to go into a trance to foresee events, etc. Deut. 18:10Not to engage in astrology Lev. 19:26Not to mutter incantations Deut. 18:11Not to attempt to contact the dead Deut. 18:11Not to consult the ov Deut. 18:11Not to consult the yidoni Deut. 18:11Not to perform acts of magic Deut. 18:10Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head Lev. 19:27Men must not shave their beards with a razor Lev. 19:27Men must not wear women's clothing Deut. 22:5Women must not wear men's clothing Deut. 22:5Not to tattoo the skin Lev. 19:28Not to tear the skin in mourning Deut. 14:1Not to make a bald spot in mourning Deut. 14:1To repent and confess wrongdoings Num. 5:7To say the Shema twice daily Deut. 6:7To serve the Almighty with daily prayer Ex. 23:25The Kohanim must bless the Jewish nation daily Num. 6:23To wear tefillin (phylacteries) on the head Deut. 6:8To bind tefillin on the arm Deut. 6:8To put a mezuzah on each door post Deut. 6:9Each male must write a Torah scroll Deut. 31:19The king must have a separate Sefer Torah for himself Deut. 17:18To have tzitzit on four-cornered garments Num. 15:38To bless the Almighty after eating Deut. 8:10To circumcise all males on the eighth day after their birth Lev. 12:3To rest on the seventh day Ex. 23:12Not to do prohibited labor on the seventh day Ex. 20:10The court must not inflict punishment on Shabbat Ex. 35:3Not to walk outside the city boundary on Shabbat Ex. 16:29To sanctify the day with Kiddush and Havdalah Ex. 20:8To rest from prohibited labor Lev. 23:32Not to do prohibited labor on Yom Kippur Lev. 23:32To afflict yourself on Yom Kippur Lev. 16:29Not to eat or drink on Yom Kippur Lev. 23:29To rest on the first day of Passover Lev. 23:7Not to do prohibited labor on the first day of Passover Lev. 23:8To rest on the seventh day of Passover Lev. 23:8Not to do prohibited labor on the seventh day of Passover Lev. 23:8To rest on Shavuot Lev. 23:21Not to do prohibited labor on Shavuot Lev. 23:21To rest on Rosh Hashanah Lev. 23:24Not to do prohibited labor on Rosh Hashanah Lev. 23:25To rest on Sukkot Lev. 23:35Not to do prohibited labor on Sukkot Lev. 23:35To rest on Shemini Atzeret Lev. 23:36Not to do prohibited labor on Shemini Atzeret Lev. 23:36Not to eat chametz on the afternoon of the 14th day of Nissan Deut. 16:3To destroy all chametz on 14th day of Nissan Ex. 12:15Not to eat chametz all seven days of Passover Ex. 13:3Not to eat mixtures containing chametz all seven days of Passover Ex. 12:20Not to see chametz in your domain seven days Ex. 13:7Not to find chametz in your domain seven days Ex. 12:19To eat matzah on the first night of Passover Ex. 12:18To relate the Exodus from Egypt on that night Ex. 13:8To hear the Shofar on the first day of Tishrei (Rosh Hashanah) Num. 9:1To dwell in a Sukkah for the seven days of Sukkot Lev. 23:42To take up a Lulav and Etrog all seven days Lev. 23:40Each man must give a half shekel annually Ex. 30:13Courts must calculate to determine when a new month begins Ex. 12:2To afflict oneself and cry out before God in times of calamity Num. 10:9To marry a wife by means of ketubah and kiddushin Deut. 22:13Not to have sexual relations with women not thus married Deut. 23:18Not to withhold food, clothing, and sexual relations from your wife Ex. 21:10To have children with one's wife Gen. 1:28To issue a divorce by means of a Get document Deut. 24:1A man must not remarry his ex-wife after she has married someone else Deut. 24:4To perform yibbum (marry the widow of one's childless brother) Deut. 25:5To perform halizah (free the widow of one's childless brother from yibbum) Deut. 25:9The widow must not remarry until the ties with her brother-in-law are removed (by halizah) Deut. 25:5The court must fine one who sexually seduces a maiden Ex. 22:15-16The rapist must marry the maiden (if she chooses) Deut. 22:29He is never allowed to divorce her Deut. 22:29The slanderer must remain married to his wife Deut. 22:19He must not divorce her Deut. 22:19To fulfill the laws of the Sotah Num. 5:30Not to put oil on her meal offering (as usual) Num. 5:15Not to put frankincense on her meal offering (as usual) Num. 5:15Not to have sexual relations with your mother Lev. 18:7Not to have sexual relations with your father's wife Lev. 18:8Not to have sexual relations with your sister Lev. 18:9Not to have sexual relations with your father's wi
If we do everything as unto the Lord, it is good, acceptable and pleasing to Him, but it is no longer part of our Covenant with Him or Him with us, based on the New Covenant. I have links of Mitzvot on my hubs, if people wish to read them. I think it's awesome that you can speak to the Jews, and if they wish to continue observing all the laws of Moses, they certainly are not told not to, for if it makes him feel closer to God and stronger in the Lord, it is good. It's purpose has been fulfilled, which is very good news to some where these laws only serve to remind them how sinful they are. God be praised!
Quite a discussion going on here! I have to side with quietnessandtrust on this one. Personally, I believe the Bible is one cohesive whole, in which the ceremonial laws that were performed in ancient Israel that pertain to the atonement of man's sins no longer apply due to the sacrifice of the Lamb of God - Jesus Christ.
I believe the same moral laws that God spoke of in the OT still apply, that the dispensation of grace in which we now live doesn't wipe out what God said in the OT- that we are still accountable to God for our actions, and that the shed blood of a perfect sinless human being (Jesus) fulfilled God's demand of sin being punished on behalf of the human race.
I also believe that only those who reject that sacrifice of Jesus as payment for their sins and who reject His Lordship will have to pay for their own sins in a burning hell, and that our primary focus and mission on this earth is to seek and to save that which is lost before time runs out.
Thank you quietnessandtrust for your diligence in this regard. May You Continue To Be Blessed!
THIS WAS SOOOO GOOD I HAD TO REPEAT IT....THE FOUNT NAILS IT LIKE A HAMMER....WOW...I HAVE NOTHING TO ADD.
I believe the Bible is one cohesive whole, in which the ceremonial laws that were performed in ancient Israel that pertain to the atonement of man's sins no longer apply due to the sacrifice of the Lamb of God - Jesus Christ.
I believe the same moral laws that God spoke of in the OT still apply, that the dispensation of grace in which we now live doesn't wipe out what God said in the OT- that we are still accountable to God for our actions, and that the shed blood of a perfect sinless human being (Jesus) fulfilled God's demand of sin being punished on behalf of the human race.
Considering I've addressed this issue thoroughly and scripturally in both my hubs about the End of the Old Covenant and the Joy in the New Covenant, there is nothing to argue. We simply are not under the Old Covenant anymore (Covenant means to accomplish the end result of righteousness before God). It's been replaced, and the laws are written in our hearts.
All of God's laws are good, but we are not enslaved to keeping the letter of them, as their purpose has been fulfilled through the blood of the Lamb. For one to remain kosher to be righteous is fruitless, in other words. God says all things are clean to eat. The Word says the weaker in the faith will continue in these practices, but they are not righteousness, as is being made righteous through Jesus Christ, and His grace.
Indeed, as the scriptures say, the WHOLE LAW is SUMMED up in these two: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, body and strength, and to Love your neighbor as yourself. Everything the Spirit tells us to do will be in alignment with these two summaries. Amen.
LISTEN VERY, VERY, VERY CAREFULLY NOW...I DO NOT KEEP ANY INSTRUCTIONS TO BE RIGHTEOUS, RATHER I FOLLOW THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS, THEY DO NOT MAKE ME RIGHTEOUS, THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS. AND EATING KOSHER IS NOT MAKING ME HOLY, IT IS JUST GOOD FOR MY HEATH, ASK ANY DOCTOR OR INSURANCE COMPANY AND THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT A KOSHER DIET KEEPS ONE "KOSHER" AND THEY LIVE LONGER AND HEALTHIER LIVES. THE HUMAN DIGESTIVE SYSTEM RUNS BETTER ON A KOSHER DIET. FOOD DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHTEOUS...SHEEEESH.
I AM NO SLAVE TO ANY LAW...SAID THAT BEFORE...I DO NOT CARE IF YOU EAT SNAILS, LIZARDS, RATS, GUINEA PIGS, HORSES, LIONS, BEARS, PIGS, TURTLES, HAWKS, SHARKS, WHALE BLUBBER, MONKEYS, FROGS, SHRIMP, LOBSTER, CRABS...AND BLA BLA BLA...CHOW DOWN...I DO NOT LOOK DOWN MY NOSE AT YOU PERIOD CARRIE!!!
AND IF YOU WANT TO RUN AROUND AND BREAK EVERY SINGLE LAW / COMMAND / INSTRUCTION IN THE OLD TESTAMENT...GO RIGHT AHEAD...THAT IS YOUR BUSINESS AND AS YOU SAY, YOU ARE UNDER GRACE, SO HAVE AT IT.
SHALOM
Too much noise here.
HEAVEN IS NOISEY TOO...I REPLY TO COMMENTS...
"Throwing down imaginations and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Messiah"...2 Corinthians 10:5
Good for you , you definetly need it
Good for you , you definitely need it
The Law/grace debate continues largely because the people on both sides don't listen to each other. Very similar to some of the atheist/religionist threads.
Quietnessand trust:
I believe that 10 commandments are still relevant but most of christendom have been socialised to see OT as done away. Your very direct approach may work in offline person to person communication but I wonder if it will work on the internet. There is such a thing as establishing common ground before you take on the controversial issues. Whatever works for you I suppose. God bless you and thanks for your faith in the entire bible.
glendoncaba says:
"There is such a thing as establishing common ground before you take on the controversial issues."
Right, that is what I tried to do by making comments in other hubs, only to find myself writing a hub in replies.
So I wrote this and the others that have a blue link within this hub too.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Instruction-for-living
http://hubpages.com/hub/Commandments-Instructions-
Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
It never ceases to amaze me at how believers who lack understanding about grace are willing to fight fo the right to break commandments.
Sheesh.
wow interesting
Well I am glad you found it worthy of comment and reading.
I am just reporting the other side of the story and bringing some balance. Hore you read the other 2 as well.
Shalom
Iðunn says:
6 months ago
excellent Hub.
even taking it from a psychological or even sociological point of view, God's law is about the Golden Rule. what we think we are doing to others echoes until it hits ourselves, hence we are doing evil to ourselves when we treat others poorly.