Hypnotic Marketing and How I Survived the Gaze of Doctor Joe.
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Yesterday, I received an email from the list of Jack Humphries, someone I respect on the net.
It was about a new Web 2.0 related product by Dr Joe Vitale, (Doctor Fire) who is a well known Internet Marketer. I haven't bought anything from Dr. Joe before, and the sales letter did its work so I dutifully punched in my card number.
Oh my.
I've NEVER seen such an avalanche of hard sell "One Time Offers" in my life!
One Time Offer #1
First up was a video of Dr. Joe doing a hard sell on his $397 set of 10 Hypnotic Marketing CD's for only $97. Regretfully, I passed. Apparently his hypnotic spell was not strong enough.
One Time Offer #2
After declining that, the good doctor popped up again with another video about a special offer of $297 for an advanced course, containing material from a seminar that people paid $5,000 to attend. Even Joe couldn't remember exactly what was in the package, but he said it was REALLY good. And there were lots of CD's
With trembling fingers, I resisted the hypnotic spell again and clicked on "No Thanks".
One Time Offer #3
Then, hard sell video number 3. Only $197 for 35 CD's of "Hypnotic Gold" where Joe interviews 35 experts on a variety of subjects. Dr. Joe can't even remember what's in them all, so he listens to them over and over again.
You won't believe this, but I summoned up all my strength, and clicked on "No Thanks" again.
One Time Offer #4
So I was taken into hard sell Video #4, where I was invited into Doctor Joe's personal Executive mentoring Program.
After an extreme internal battle, sweat pouring down my brow, I clicked "No Thanks" again, I was finally able to download a part of what I had bought.
Boy, I had survived an amazing mental onslaught by one of the Marketing Industries finest - and escaped with my credit card relatively intact.
Getting My Stuff - Like finding a needle in a Haystack.
In a confirmation email, I had to wade through 2 screens of audio files, transcripts, and other stuff trying to find what I had wanted to buy.
I couldn't find it - it was hidden like a needle in a haystack amongst all of the other stuff that had been shovelled into tis sale.
I hade to go back to the original sales page, reread the copy, and eventually work out where the web 2.0 article I bought was located.
But Wait. There's more.
The Sting In The Tail - Forced Continuity @ $29 per month
Apparently I'm now signed up to receive a monthly newsletter from the good doctor - something I did not ask for, or want. A reference to this was buried somewhere in the pages and pages of blurb. Can you spell "Forced Continuity? "
Now I've got to contact the Doctor Joe's people, and probably have to do battle to have my enforced "subscription" cancelled.
Funny. The charging authority I agreed to on screen had one payment of $29.00 shown. It said nothing about recurring payments.
In Australia, any attempt to do somethjing like this would have Australia's Trade Practices commission down on them like a ton of bricks for misleading conduct. Obviously you don't have similar Federal legislation in the USA.
The Afterglow - Spammed with the One Time Offers (Repeated.)
And as a nice little after touch, a Matt Gill from Dr. Joe's company sent me 2 further emails telling me that I could still have the upsell CD packages included in my order, which was just being prepared to be sent out.
Such consideration. Such Spam. Couldn't you tell that I DIDN"T want any smegging one time offers.
Well Doctor Joe, I had expected more ethical behaviour from someone who is regarded as one of the "good guys".
I expected some good manners on our "First Encounter" with each other. Not to be wrestled to the ground, hogtied, branded, and then have a ring forced through my nose and led along like a good little dawgie. I found it offensive, and total overkill. All I wanted was what your sales letter promised. An interview with a web 2.0 expert.
I'll be cancelling my enforced subscription, and if there are any problems, you'll meet my little used medical friend - Doctor Chargeback.
Meet Big Mike:
Big Mike is one of the "good Guys" on the net, with a long history of ethical behaviour and quality product development.
He's written about the issue of Forced continuity at
http://hubpages.com/hub/Forced-Continuity--Copyright-Infringement-and-IM-Guru-Desperation
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Comments
Hello Eric - every now and again I am tempted by the persuasive language and offers by the likes of Dr Joe. Thankfully you've cured me for this week!
ROTFL - except its pretty tragic really isn't As is your pic of the crocodile: I think mine is much better! Now I wonder why Internet Marketing and man-eating beasts go so well together - oh that was in the hub :-)
My credit card company is getting sick of me reversing charges and trying to get out deals I have either been suckered into, or these people not delivering what they say they will :(
Eric: I love Dr. Joe Vitale's book "Zero Limits", and participate in his blog and also in forum where the owner has met Dr. Joe and interviewed him and I have found him to be a nice guy, but perhaps being too overly promotional with a product is not a good thing; I for one dislike pushiness, the more I am pushed the more I back away and won't buy a product.
Eric, I avoided the whole Hypnotic Marketing thing because I am on several email lists, and when they all email me at once with very similar-sounding subject lines, I know immediately that if there is that much effort going into the launch, it won't be worth my while reading the sales letter.
Isn't Matt Gill doing Nitro Marketing along with Kevin Wilke? If he's also part of Joe Vitale's organisation, that might explain why the Nitro guys have been a little slow producing some of their promised content ;)
It's a small world, that internet marketing uber-Guru club ...
Jenny
Eric, that's more than perfect painting of the virtual reality in Internet marketing, which becomes so very real and painful, if one decides to use its credit card. I could very proudly admit, that I haven't bought anything about Internet marketing, yet. Until now, I've found all the knowledge about this topic free of charge. It maybe takes a little more time, but it is so worthwhile for getting much better perception over this vast field of 'scamming mess'.
Yes Jenny,
The post purchase emails were indeed from Nitro Marketing.
I know what you mean about the affiliate wars for the GuruWanker's products.
Behind the scenes there are competitions for Mac Air laptops, expensive watches, and in one case there was even a car offered for the affiliate that could squeeze the most sales from their lists.
Normal commission on these things is 50% or more, so for a $1997 product that's a fair bit of income.
It's a bit sad to see the list owners frenzied attempts to flog this stuff, in many cases without even trying the product. I generally have a policy of not recommending things that I have not personally used or tried.
On the ocassional instance where I'm recommending something based on third hand info, I'll always point this out very plainly.
Maybe that's why I'm not a millionaire :-)
Yes Solarshingles, there's a lot of good stuff available for free.
You could do worse that check out Ed Dale's Thirty Day challenge. You'll learn a LOT there.
I did it last year, and the time I spend going through the tasks was very worthwile - although I was not able to put everything into practice.
Eric, I must say I have not received any emails on the subject--I don't get very much jumk mail. I must have a great filter on my computer. Its terrible how people bait and switch like that. It will be such a headache for you to clear that up. I will definitely keep my eyes open for email like that and avoid it. Good luck getting out of the contract.
what's sad is that those methods are a return to the "call 1-800-xxx-xxxx to lose 30 pounds in 10 days" advertisements. It's not the product they make their money off of, it's the lists of phone numbers *and* the upsells, including but not limited to enrollment in vacation discount plans.
The beauty of social media is TRUSTING each other to TELL THE TRUTH and give us WHAT WE WANT and NOTHING MORE.
When you push your captive audience you risk going from guru to goober.
Simply unbelievable! There were more bonus offers then fleas on my Granddaddy’s ‘coon dog. Completely over the top. Just imagine for a minute, opening your receipt email and having to scroll through five limited time only bonus offers to find your link to the product. Do you have time for that?
Notice how Joe does this with all of his products. When you download the eBooks they all contain "People Who Bought This Also Bought" pages. This comes as no surprise –it’s a great marketing idea that companies like Amazon use everyday. However, the email barrage was just overwhelming.
I had a similar experience with a chap from London. A monthly charge that was impossible to stop. The email address to support didn't work. The telephone number for the help desk was a machine that promised, "We will call you back". It was maddening.
This * free * tip is amazing! Use a Visa Gift Card when you purchase marketing items online. It acts like a regular credit card but you have to "buy" the credit before you use it - like a gift card. You will avoid making impulse purchases AND if you find yourself in a recurring billing ordeal, the charge will not process if there are no funds on the card.
Note: “Smegging” I like that and will import that into the US’ vocab. (How do you conjugate that?)
PS.. “From Guru to Goober – What Every True Marketing Genius Must To Know To Trim Their Opt-In List Today”, the new eBook by TwoHandTouch, is now available at her site and for a limited time only, when you order today you will also get.....
Meoooowwww! LOL
What's really sad is that these hard-sell,over-the-top techniques don't work. Dr. Joe can spam the world and still not get the results he would get from an honest respectful interaction--great hub,Eric,deftly done with yoour usual humorous touch:-)
@CherylAnne - You wouldn't get these emails from spammers. They come from newsletters to which you have subscribed. There'll be no problem cancelling the inwanted "contract". Dr. Chargeback is a strong incentive.
@twoandtouch - Yes, the guruWankers are trying to get around the personalisation barrier of the social sites. Hope they don't succeed. Many have the motto "If you can fake sincerity, you've got it made".
@Smiling Cat - Thanks for the comments. "Smegging" (along with SmegHead) is a wonderful term from the UK series "Red Dwarf". Guru to goober. Love it.
@Robie2 - Thanks for appreciating :)
Great hub, Eric! I certainly understand how you feel! I subscribe to many business newsletters and every one of them send me email after email of their special promotion offers! That's bullcrap! I write a monthly newsletter, too and I have never once emailed any offer to my subscribers, nor do I give their emails to anyone for them to send them.
I am truly amazed at how some of these people will attempt to teach good marketing practices and then spam the crap out of you with their high-dollar offers for their products and services that, as has been stated, you can usually find for free! It makes one hesitant to buy any business or motivational books or tools for fear of spam. Great hub!
Bonnie
Thank You Eric, This was very informative. I will definitely avoid the good Doctor.
Just had to add something here. You would think that a famous and respectable magazine such as Forbes would not use these practices but they do! Yes, Forbes! I subscribed to the newsletter about a year ago and the next thing I knew I received a magazine in the mail with a bill for the subscription. I made sure that when I signed up, no boxes were checked on any offers yet I was billed for magazines I did not order. Also, I began being bombarded with email after email from Forbes, even other departments. I have unsubscribed and unsubscribed and still I get at least 3 emails each day from them. In my book, this is not marketing, this is bullying and down right spam! I still get these emails even a year after trying to unsubscribe and marking all of them as spam.
Bonnie
I probably need to qualify my statement that a lot of good stuff is available for free.
Nothing is really free - you have to invest either your time or your money.
Is it better to pay somebody $50 for some information you need, or spend 4 hours trawling the net looking for it?
The answer is different depending on your circumstances.
And the REAL trick is to establish whether the person you are paying knows what they are talking about - or whether the information you find free on the net is correct.
Good post, that is why I use Gmail, I click spam when they annoy me, Google does a great job after that.
Thanks cgull8m, but you are missing the point.
This wasn't spam - it was an offer passed on by somebody whose newsletter I subscribe to - and want to receive in future.
My rant is about the techniques used by some internet marketers to bludgeon their customers around the head.
I am new to online marketing and as I read or purchase training material I start to think to myself "Will these techniques continue to work?". The training material clearly outlines the above marketing technique to increase your sales.If I buy the "be all and end all" ebook and immediately get upselled to something else I absolutely need, I start to wonder if the ebook I bought is really worth anything.
Wouldn't it be better to just sell the consumer the product, let them enjoy it, follow up with more informative information on the topic and then let them know about additional products later.
Just a note - Joe Vitale IS an excellent source of top quality useful information. I have learned a lot from the Hypnotic Marketing course and the price was more then fair.
I don't think that the issue is with Joe "Mr Fire" Vitale (reminds me of Danny Devito) but with the extreme amount of up-selling that accompanied the purchase.
Thanks Smiling Cat.
You're dead right. I'm not disputing the value of the information - (although personally I learned very little from the web 2.0 product)
I DO take issue with the extremely hard sell promotional method. In my opinion, he is treating his new clients very badly by using these methods.
If he gradually introduced these additional items in quality follow up newsletters, I would have no problem with that.
Doctor Joe's material is distributed by Nitro Marketing.
Jay Jennings, a developer whose products I have purchased in the past, blogged about some issues he was having with them and their aggressive sales and marketing procedures.
In the IT world, when over aggressive markiting techniques use browser pop-ups that recur without end, we call the occurrence a virus.
The Sting In The Tail - Forced Continuity @ $29 per month
^LOL!!!
That whole thing, wow that musta been rough.
Seriously I hate that so much. I tried to buy a dvd I saw on TV (no it was not Girls Gone Wild - but I bet, now that I think about it that's the same) and when I called the number they would NOT let me just buy the DvD. I've been in sales for about a thousand years, so I saw what they were doing when they tried to get me to commit, so I kept trying to pin them down to just the one DvD I wanted. You know what, in the end, they would NOT sell me the single DvD that they advertised on TV. Their whole system had zero ways to sell it and nobody there knew how to release just one thing. To buy it, I had to be entered into the system and then would have to cancel my "subscription" some other way after the fact (them sending me a new DvD every month, that I would have to return or pay for until I figured out how to release myself from this insidious contract they tried to force me into).
This kind of predatory marketing is so nasty, I don't blame a lot of the religious factions for freaking out at how evil things have become. I wish one of all the zillion moral loving gods out there would show back up and whip humanity back in line. There's enough religions out there, you'd think somebody's diety would take an active AND obvious role.
I agree but that is impossible because the end of days is upon us now. Obama has his hand in it all and uses the money from all the forced subscriptions to fund the New World Order. Obama is the Anti-Christ I've said it before and I'm saying it again.
Seriously this hub was great and I do agree with you. Great work and best wishes in all that you do.
Great hub. Very well written and explains exactly the hazards of what you may face if you buy or even show interest in a click through from a news letter.
These are much like Pyramid schemes with affiliates and affiliates to the affiliates etc. On the internet this is just faster. Often the "make $$$ while you sleep" type of ad "Money back guarranteed, Please become an affiliate" (why would you need to sell your idea if it was so succesful anyway?) are an invitation for you to be bombarded with offers. We have laws in RSA against pyramid schemes (on the internet too) and prosecutions do take place. We have another curse which is SMS competitions similiar problem to the one you described.
Hi Eric I just want to comment in a way the other hubbist didn't and that is how you did this hub I know it was difficult for you and all but you really are good at it you kept my attention you have a very funny way of telling the story you had me rolling I kept picturing this guy running with his credit card hanging out his back pocket and the mad hypnotic doctor with a credit card machine in one hand chasing the man then in the beginning with the hypnotic trance through the key board into you fighting to press the no thank you option oh man too funny become my fan so I can easily click to come read your hus till later Eric.~cool~cya
"My credit card company is getting sick of me reversing charges and trying to get out deals I have either been suckered into, or these people not delivering what they say they will :("
I am sorry mate, but that is totally your own fault. Get a grip!
As a marketer myself (I beleive an ethical and benevolent one focusing on providing value for the customer who needs my service, not those who don't). I am not so susceptible to the persuasion techniques they use. If you don't want to be either, read Influence by Robert Chialdini, it's a great book and costs what you would expect a book to cost.
The hardest aspect of making money online for the "newbie" is being able to focus on something and not get distracted by all the hype that is out there. You can do it and you are worth it... You just need to stop thinking there is a magic button you can pay someone $2000 to push for you.
@ articleCK
You're spot on. In my opinion, "Influence" by Robert Cialdini is a MUST READ for consumers. And sales people, and marketers.
Indeed, anyone with a pulse needs to read his book so that they can understand the automatic responses and reaction that are part of us.
And also to become aware of all the subtle techniques marketers use to trigger these automatic responses.
After you read it, you'll look at everything in a different way.
I had similar problem with recurring subscription. When I decided to cancel it, the website "cancellation form" was inaccessible, the page simply loaded error 404. Their contact email didn't reply either. I had to wait for 2 or 3 days before they restored the "cancel page".
Well, I'm pleased to say that the forced subscription was cancelled promptly after I submitted a request to their help desk.
Little did they know they had provoked the wrath of the Graudinator!
Eric, I do love that Hypnotic photo at the beginning of this hub! Maybe, it helps those Internet marketing scammers to trick people to buy faster, than you...hahahhaa):
@oberbreckling -
Thanks for your comment. I find that a bit of humour and satire generally helps with the point that I am trying to make.
@funnebone - Graudinator. Hmm. I think I like it - Have just registered graudinator.com for possible future use. Will send you a treat if I use it for anything :-)
Nice hub Eric, so many of the big fish just lend their names to anything that makes money. I remember Joe from way back, you will be lucky to get what he promises. His sales pages are full of hype, and he is, like many of these self promotional gurus an egotist and a big talker.
Great job on retelling this story, Eric. That's one of the things that I hate about shopping on line...But you are a string willed person to have come out of the lion's den (practically unscathed). As I'm sure you know, your credit card company can always get involved. Not everyone knows this, but your credit card company works for you! You make them money, not the other way around! Thank you Eric.
Excellent Cobber!!
Thanks Guys.
Another one to watch out for is one Mike Filsaime.
He pimps a different "must have" product every week.
But if you are interested in internt marketing, get on his list.
You'll learn a lot. (Well, I learned a lot about what NOT to do :) )
Congratulations and thanks for shinning a bright light into a dark corner of internet marketing. It is unfortunate but all to true that the internet is filled with so much hustle and jibe that getting caught up in a forced continuity scheme is highly likely. The ruse they use is pretty much the same thing just dressed up differently from site to site but it can always be described with a single word, deception. For the record I recently received 2 cheques from a settlement that resulted in the successful prosecution of a US software company who had billed me through an illegal forced continuity program. They were taken to court by the US Federal Trade Commission. If you live in the US and have been scammed into a forced continuity program you should report the offense to the FTC.
pkmcr says:
2 years ago
Eric I had the exact same experience with the product purchase process which to be honest was way over the top. I found myself wading through masses of information just to get to what I was buying!
The forced continuity is something I really dislike - in the way it's being deployed by some Internet Marketers. Fortunately they were quite quick to cancel the subscription (or at least to confirm that they had cancelled!) when I emailed the support address to advise them how much I disliked the approach and demanding that they cancel and confirm the same by return.
Take care
Paul