Is Hell Evil?
67Is God Mean to have hell as a punishment for mankind?
The answer revolves around the concepts of free will and God's very nature. Man has free will to choose his/her course. God has power beyond our comprehension.
According to the Bible, Adam and Eve used their free will to disobey God. We have the ability to use our free will in the same way. We can choose God or reject Him. A Christian believes that Jesus is the only way to God. So, our decision is whether or not to choose Jesus. According to the Bible, not choosing Jesus will result in eternal hell after death.
Many people want to turn against God because He does this to us. God makes us choose Him or hell. It seems like a relatively simple choice on the surface, doesn't it? Anyone would choose heaven over hell, if they believed it was really a true choice. So, in fact, the choice is not God or no God, heaven or hell? The true choice is whether God is real.
That leads to the second part of the equation, the power of God.
According to the Bible, God knows everything about everyone, including you and me, of course. Not only that, but he knew all of that before He created Adam and Eve. That is incomprehensible to me. I truly cannot and do not really try to comprehend God's power.
Man must choose God or not, according to God's plan. That does not seem like that evil of a thing. After all, don't we all choose our friends, our job, our employees, our spouse and everything else for that matter. Life is all about choices. The more good choices we make, the better life is. At least that is my opinion. Inner peace is worth more than anything to me. I get that from choosing to work very hard at good things.
People ask me whether God is real all the time. When I reply "yes", they ask how I know. They want evidence. I believe that there is really no choice if He just walks up and works a good miracle for me, or something. It is faith that determines our choice.
It is our choice to make? I don't see that as mean or evil.
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SirDent;
Thank you. I appreciate all your hard work for Him. I am very proud that I have been able to work together with you to glorify Him and further His kingdom.
See you around...
To answer your question:
Well, the belief in the Christian hell is somewhat evil. It's misguided and blind. But the teaching of the Christian hell is the most blasphamis teaching in all the world. So yes, hell is evil. Good thing it doesn't exist.
I hope you come back Dan. Explain how the teaching of hell is blasphemous, please.
It's easy to toss out words in accusation. Much harder to show proof most of the time. it is impossible to show proof when it is an untruth.
What's the difference by the way between the teaching of Chrisitans on hell and the teaching of Muslims on hell?
Hi Dan;
Thank you for reading this post and leaving us your comment. I have a little trouble understanding your reasons, but I do agree that hell is not the most plesant alternative to envision - on the surface.
Still, I do think that it is important to study it carefully from all perspectives. So, I am very glad to have read your perspective. However, I am not sure what your perspective is exactly.
After all, if hell is real as I believe, then it is very important to understand it fully.
I do understand that you do not believe that hell exists, though, and therefore it has no impct on your life. Alternately, hell has great impact on me. I believe that disobedience to the commands of God are punishable by eternal hell. So, I frankly do much better work for my fellow man because I originally prayed to Jesus for forgiveness of my sins. When I more fully comprehended the Bible, I realized that I needed to do more than that.
So, long story short, God answered my prayers for salvation from hell by getting me fired. Then, he closed off my career. Next, I found an opportunity to help others in a very big way. Long story short, I found that happiness for me is helping others. The more the merrier, shall we say.
That is why I ask if hell is really evil. You see, it worked out marvelously for me. I just wondered how others viewed it, and I appreciate your thoughts. If you care to elaborate, I would love to read. Thanks again.
SirDent;
I agree with you that it would be great to read a little more about Dan's views on hell.
I know you have studied Islam extensively lately. I hope that has not been unpleasant for you. Do you have any insight on the Muslim view of hell that you would care to share?
As I have said, I think that hell is one of those "emperor with no clothes" subjects. The Bible has a lot to say about hell, that's for sure. I think few Christians have really studied and contemplated hell in its full biblical context. I wonder why. It seems to have such huge significance to me, and there is really a wide variety of possible interpretations, even among Christians. You wisely point out that it is an even wider interpretation when other religions are considered. I guess I would think people would be talking about hell all the time.
Many Christians bleieve that Jesus forgives all sin if you repent and ask for forgiveness. Others believe that you must go further than that and not be a sinner. The second group were given no specific measurable criteria for that, and we all are acustomed to quotas and specifics for jobs to do. In this case, God chose not to provide them. Still the commands are clearly in the Bible.
I struggle with the interpretation, so I welcome yours or anyone's opinion of this.
It was good to see you here. Thank you, SirDent for your comments.
From what I was able to gather, the Muslim view of hell is basically the same as the Christian view. The only exception may be that the visions of hell mentioned in the Qur'an that I read it was always women who were in hell. I'm not saying that men won't be there either, but just stating what i did read myself.
To me, according to what I read about it, it is just another way of saying women are inferior to men and are no better than animals. Of course, that is merely my own opinion.
Glad you asked. Hell is mistranslated from the hebrew sheol and the Greek Hades which both mean unseen. In fact, sheol is translated in the KJ 31 times grave and 31 times hell (it is clear to me that the writers of the KJ had false doctrines to protect). Hell is also translated from Gehenna which was a litteral place in the vicinity of Jeruselem. It was a burning trash dump where many of the dead were thrown who's families couldn't afford a proper burial. It is also translated (I think 3 times) from tarturous which I don't understand as well.
Four hundred years ago the word hell actually meant to cover. Somehow, it took on a meaning invented by the Egyptians 1000s of years ago.
Now, what does the all loving God really have in store of the word? First, what will become of the unrighteous?
Isaiah 26:9
When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (that means everybody)
But perhaps, this is only true in the context of Isaiah 26:9? But what about:
John 1:29
Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
and
Philipians 2:10-11
at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Why would Christ take away the sin of the world, even those about to spend eterity in hell? And why would those condemed to hell kneel before Christ? It seems that the only purpose would be for:
John 4:42
. . . for we have heard Him ourselves and know that this is truly the Christ, the Savior of the world.
But no, the churches assure us that this couldn't be true. Maybe the context police will clear this one up. But what about:
1 Tim 2:4
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior: Who will (thelo) have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (Thelemo means desire)
But what about hell fire? You knew? The Lake of Fire? They're one in the same, aint they?
1 Cor. 3:15
If anyone’s work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire
So, when will all of the unrighteous be saved?
1 Tim. 2:3-6
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus who gave Himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time.
But perhaps, all just means some here and every other place that speaks of the salvation of all, right? But then. . . . how will God the Father ever be "all in all"? Oh ewll, guess he'll be only "all in some".
But wasn't Christ sent to just save as many as He could save?
1 John 4-14
And we have seen and testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Oh, come on!! Christ would never agree to such an assignment, would he?
John 9:4
“I must work the works of Him that sent me”. . .
But don't people have to repent to be saved? Ahha, the context police have me now. . . . . .
2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not purposing that any of us should perish (in the end), but that all should come to repentance.
So why believe now if we will all eventually be saved?
1 Tim 4:10
For to this we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Preserver of all men, specially (first) of those who believe.
But people choose not to believe!!! Right? How can people choose to not believe and still be saved?
Rom 11:31-32
For God has shut up all in unbelief, so that He might show mercy to all.
I hope I've answered your questions. This is only the beginning to the proof of the salvation of all. By the way, if you're interested in these truths, I highly suggest you visit bibletruths.com.
SirDent;
Thank you for sharing your knowledge of the Muslim doctrine of hell.
Am I reading you right that the actual description of the place called hell are similar between Islam and Christianity?
I was curious what a Muslim believed was cause for loss of salvation or alternatively cause to go to hell. I actually thought there are significant differences from the Christian and Muslim views of salvation.
I realize that much of the Old Testament scriptures were fairly common to Islam and Christianity, but the divergence occurred in the New Testament. Certainly, Islam does not believe that Jesus is the only way to avoid hell. So in achieving salvation, they are not very similar. So I am not sure I understand what you are saying.
The difference between women and men in hell is noteworthy, too, huh? That is a horribly sexist and prejudiced concept. I can't see how it would be that the Quran would be written in a way that would leave such an impression. That is so sad. Thankfully, there is no distinction between for salvation for a man and a woman in Christianity.
The reason the Christian hell and the Muslim hell are so similiar is because they both come from the same pagan sources. I think if you check the extra biblical book of Peter you'll see the church doctrine of hell defined perfectly. It's so obviously not scripture, yet the Christian church seems to hold to it as if it were.
Dan;
I think I somewhat see your opinion of hell now, so I will give you some things to consider.
Your first post had in its text that hell does not exist. With your subsequent posts, I understand what you mean by that, I think.
To summarize the 12 posts you left, here is what they mean. Jesus, the most exalted is the savior who worked miracles. Earthly goods will do nothing to save anyone. God wants everyone to repent and be saved.
I have rectified all those verses to my view of hell as I posted initially. If you feel that any verse of the bible validates your opinion that hell does not exist, let's examine it. None of those 12 verses say that, though.
Hell is repeatedly mentioned by all major Bible translations. Examining the seven most used translations, hell is mentioned about 400 times on average.
All major Bible scholars are 100% convinced that hell exists. Geenna is a figurative term to refer to hell in the New Testament. There is no way that it could be in fact literal as the place in Jerusalem. The bible would simply be nonsense using that view. Of course, that is not true.
I do agree with you that the KJV does use Sheol for hell, but the other major translations do not so freely, and they have hell in their text about 400 times.
Jesus refers to geenna repeatedly as the place where He reigns.
I look at it this way personally. Revelation 21:8 clearly lays out the exact sins that will cause you and me to go to hell. Galatians 5:19-21 emphasize that clear warning that you will not inherit baiileia theos or the kingdom of God for specific sinning.
Hell exists, and that is far too widely accepted to be questioned. I could literally give hundreds of clear messages of that in the Bible. It cannot be thought of differently. I am sorry to be blunt, but I fell this is critical for you and others to understand. No one is allowed to twist the holy word of God.
The only tough part of the whole concept of hell is what constitutes a sinner. Over and over, it is made clear that we must truly act in accord with God's commandments or we will burn for eternity in hell. It is not just as easy as asking for forgiveness. Everyone needs to understand God's commands clearly and obey them. We know that we get one sin, but after that, it is totally up to the discretion of Jesus Christ.
I personally take His example of dedicating my life to those in need and trying to help them. I try to clearly spread the gospel. I have no idea whether Jesus will stand for me because I am a sinner. No one else knows for sure either. I try my best to change, but I am like a filthy rag. I pray that Jesus will know my heart and speak for me. I will go to hell if that is Jesus' ruling.
Hey Viral, you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. First off, modern translations are dropping the word hell constantly. The hell of Christianity is taken from non scriptural sources (if you think the Gospel of Peter is scripture then I'm wasting my time, here).
1 Tim. 2:3-6
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus who gave Himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time.
The term for "will' above is thelo and that word never means desire, but always the affirmative "will".
Commentary on thelo:
II Thes. 3:10
“If any would (thelo) not work, neither should he eat”
Gee Paul, I don’t desire to work but I do anyway. Does this mean that I should not eat? No, thelo means will and not desire. (Would it even matter if God merrily desired to save all?)
Would it matter? I think not!! If God desires something, it is utter blasphamy to suggest that it won't happen.
What does manny called but few chosen mean to you? Well, the few is actually fewer than you can probably imagine. Those not in the first resurrection will be resurrected to judgement (Read Isaiah 26:9 again). I wouldn't put my faith in the many. Your reasoning for the existence of the christian hell is total church indoctrinated hogwash.
By the way, there isn't a single bible scholar worth his weight that believes that the word hell or eternal belong in the bible.
Oh, and did you say that Christ reigns in Gahenna? It sure looks that way by what you wrote above. Well, it is a beautiful park these days.
Nearly every word in the world has multiple definitions. Case in point, your word thelo. Please check below.
G2309θε?λω / ε?θε?λωthelo? / ethelo?Thayer Definition:1) to will, have in mind, intend1a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose1b) to desire, to wish1c) to love1c1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing1d) to take delight in, have pleasurePart of Speech: verbA Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138
Thayer definitions are supposed to be better than Strong's. But to be certain I will post the Strong's also.
G2309θε?λω, ε?θε?λωthelo? ethelo? thel'-o, eth-el'-oEither the first or the second form may be used. In certain tenses θελε?ω theleo? thel-eh'-o (and ε?θε?λε?ω etheleo? eth-el-eh'-o) are used, which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138; to determine (as an active voice option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive voice acquiescence in objective considerations), that is, choose or prefer (literally or figuratively); by implication to wish, that is, be inclined to (sometimes adverbially gladly); impersonally for the future tense, to be about to; by Hebraism to delight in: - desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, -ling [ly]).
Case rests on that.
Let's get bach to Gehenna. If I recall correctly Gehenna was/is a trash dump. There was a fire that burned there continuously. Have you ever been to a trash dump?
Anyway, all things that rot give off a gas. It's called Methane. Now if this fire is fed cosntantly, it will never go out.
Also let's look at some verses in John.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
We see that His own received Him not. That would be Israel, the people God chose.
It further states that, As many that received Him gave He power to become the sons of God. This means someone must receive Jesus first. This is done only through repentance, confession, and belief. This is the only way for the person to born again of the spirit.
Dan;
SirDent;
It would be great if you could elaborate on your last post. I am not sure what you are addressing or if you are making a new point. Who was it intended for? Me? Dan?
Maybe I will reserve my additional comments until I get some more clarification of your point.
Thanks.
My apologies. That was for Dan. I didn't address his whole last comment. Just enough to get him to check again.
Dan;
I had a hard time reading beyond your first sentence, "Hey Viral, you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about." Well, at least I am in the same category as the King James Version of the Bible. So, I am proud to take your insults.
Oh Dent, you make this to easy.
Man is incapable of receiving God unless He draws that person in.
Rom. 3:11
Not one is seeking out God
Rom. 2:4
“the goodness of God leads you to repentance”
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.
John 6:44
No one can come to Me if ever the Father Who sends Me should not be drawing (dragging) him.
Eph. 1:4
He (God) chooses us in Him (Christ)
Rom. 11:7
What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused.
Rom 11:8
God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day.
Phil. 2:13
For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Rom. 12:4
God parts to each the measure of faith.
Pr. 20:24 Man’s steps are ordained by the Lord; how then can man understand his way?
Job 32:8
But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.
“Then began He to upbraid the cities wherein most of the mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unto you, Chorazin! Who unto you, Bethsaide! For if the mighty works (not some free will), which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Believe me, these are just a few scriptures that destroy the false doctrine of "free will".
Perhaps you're a Calvanist who believes that people are predestined to heaven or hell. That's all evil heresy. But freewill is both unscientific and unscriptural. So that leaves the responsibility of salvation with God.
Oh yeah, you said something about "my word" thelo.
Now, I don't think that Thayer and Strong's definitions take preference over the context in which words were used in the ancient Hebrew and Greek. Thelemo was the Greek word used for desire. Thelo meant will. It is futile to base definitions of today on those of ancient times. This is how real scholars know that aion never meant eternal. Now the case rests on that!!
I have no idea what you are saying about Gehenna. Yes, it was a trash dump (it most definately isn't any longer). It was used by Christ as a symbol of judgement.
Matt. 5:21 and 25
But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the Council; but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire; agree with your adversary quickly… lest… you be cast into prison (a spiritual frame of mind).
What?? What's the difference? I say Raca (worthless) and I might face the council. If I'm angry (also called spiritual murder) I face judgement. But dare I say "you fool" and it's eternity in hell? Did you know that Christ was speaking only to the decipals at this point?
Matt. 5:30
And if your right hand offend you, cut it off, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into hell (Gehenna). (Body parts don’t sin. Sin comes from the heart.)
So, how can you still type if you've cut off your hands?
Gehenna was used as a symbol for judgement only. Read Isaiah 26:9 one more time.
Dan;
It is very sad for me to see the frustration that you have tried to take out on me. Taking the side of Satan in saying that hell does not exist - all alone - must be frustrating. To be contending that everyone is saved, again along with the ultimate liar Satan, well I can understand your anger. Thankfully, countless thousands of theologians have concluded that it is true that there is a hell. Certainly, Satan would love to see that everyone feels that there is no consequence to sin. Sadly, you are not alone in your views, but your supporters are atheists and agnostics.
You have come on here without an account, so that I cannot communicate except on an open forum. At best, that is suspicious, but it does limit my options to deal with this. I would not prefer this way of dealing with this, but I do not think I should not just let this slide.
You opened on this thread with "But the teaching of the Christian hell is the most blasphamis teaching in all the world. So yes, hell is evil. Good thing it doesn't exist." Overblown arguments are the mark of frustration, caused by inner conflict. Of course, to hold that view would be very frustrating, since no major theologian or religious leader believes that or has ever said that.
You never left one scripture to back that up. You had to make your haughty commentary to give any impression of your view. Do you have some reason for us to view you credible? I know all of the scriptures that you have posted here, and the scriptures do not say that there is no hell nor that all are saved...not only those, none of the scriptures. I then presented three scriptures that say there is a hell, and I gave you other reasons like the word hell is used about 400 times on average. All major translations agree, not just the King James Version. The most read new translation, by the way, the Net Bible translated the Bible using the word hell 422 times.
Never mind the subsequent insults you hurled out, again the work of frustration.
Certainly, SirDent has discredited your narrow view of theos, on which hung your contention that all people are saved (you said "This is only the beginning to the proof of the salvation of all"). Again, no Christian leader or student agrees with you. Yes, to go against all Christians with some mistranslation that everyone knows better is very frustrating, I am sure.
Dan, we will leave it at those two Satanic mantras as to my open full disagreement with you. I disagree with dozens of other things that you have twisted about the Bible. I am glad to revisit them, too...no problem. There is a hell, and not all people are saved. That is my position, clear enough for you?
Of course, I do have other more pressing issues in my life, so please be patient if you want to continue the debate. I promise to conclude this if you wish. One will win, and one will lose, fair enough?
Am I frustrated? Perhaps mildly. But that is only my carnal side trying to help the spiritually blind see. It is only when I take a step back that I realize the truths on this matter. That is that only Christ can give one sight. You will never believe the scriptures I quoted above unless Christ opens your eyes to them. Anyway, should one teach the truths of Christ using words of anger? Well, let's go to the source for the answer:
"But WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… FOR YOU SHUT UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AGAINST MEN……THEY BIND HEAVY BURDENS and GRIEVOUS to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but will not move them with ONE OF THEIR FINGERSWOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… you DEVOUR WIDOW’S HOUSES… you shall receive the greater damnation.WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES…WOE unto you, ye BLIND GUIDES…You FOOLS AND BLIND…You FOOLS AND BLIND…WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You… have omitted… JUDGMENT, MERCY, and FAITH…You BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.You BLIND PHARISEES…WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You are FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, and ALL UNCLEANESS… and HYPOCRISY and INIQUITY…WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES!… you are the children of them which KILLED the prophets. FILL YOU UP then the measure of your fathers.You SERPENTS, you GENERATION OF SNAKES… you KILL AND CRUCIFY… you SCOURGE in your synagogues… Behold your house is left unto you DESOLATE"!!Thanks gos to Ray Smith of bibletruths.com above.
Maybe you're not seeing what I'm saying. What Christ said to the church leaders of that day would apply to the church of today, with one exception: Today's church has become far more evil than the church of the days of Christ in the flesh. They never taught some evil doctrine of eternal torment.
Now let's just go over some things from your latest post. First of all, I never said that anyone has been saved, yet. Salvation requires extensive judgement. Judgement starts with God's chosen in this life. Those not chosen to reign with Christ will have their part in the Lake of Fire Great White Thrown Judgement. Therefore if you feel that I have stated that "there is no consequence for sin" then I ask that you reread Isaiah 26:9.
You feel it suspicious that I come on here without an account. I have a google account and feel no need to have an account here. Are you saying that we should be posting privately? If I'm gonna use valuable time typing these truths, I assure you, I want others to read them.
I have no inner conflict concerning the teaching of hell. I am 100% sure that it is a hoax borrowed from the very worst of pagan sources. I know this based on common sence (A God of Love does not torture people for all eternity for no redeeming value). Comparing scriptures shows without doubt, that the salvation of all is scriptural. My reasons for taking part in this blog is to expose contradictions believed by so many around the world. Nobody suggested that I do this (Ray Smith suggests that we not try to teach at our basic levels of understanding). I just get angry when I see people backing up such swill and calling it scripture.
Iv'e provided nothing but scripture to back up my points. If you think my commentary is haughty then you don't understand how scriptures connect. That was the point of it.
By the way, I don't care if you find me credible. However, I believe that what I've written provides much credibility to the scriptures. You want a credible source? Go to bibletruths.com.
You say those who support my views are atheists and agnostics. That is an outright lie. First of all, I do not claim that I came up with all of this by the gift of the holy spirit. My gift is the ability to see these truths written by others who have been gifted more than myself, so far in life. My main source is bibletruths.com. The most important thing I've learned from Ray is that these truths are not popular in the churches of the world (again, does many called, few chosen mean anything to you?).
Dan;Let's deal with the credibility of bibletruths.com. We can quantify it. Bibletruths.com can scarcely stand the test of credibility on the surface. It is the 4,053,309th largest website in the world. Wow, I just got really credible. My website is way over 2 million ahead of them. That is not credibility. Come on, Dan, is that the best you have?Well, as to the rest of your post, I would love to see you make up your mind. Now you claim that you did not say that all will be saved. Your latest claim is "Now let's just go over some things from your latest post. First of all, I never said that anyone has been saved, yet". Again, you said "This is only the beginning to the proof of the salvation of all". Now, you say "Comparing scriptures shows without doubt, that the salvation of all is scriptural." That is totally false, and the Bible says it over and over again. Again, you are out on that limb all by yourself without a single Christian leader or scholar with you. Again, I say very plainly, you have no claim to the statement that all will be saved at any point. Only Jesus can lay that claim. You nor I have any idea, and if I had to say one way or the other (but I don’t), I would say definitely all will not be saved.Your only other claim is “I know this based on common sence (A God of Love does not torture people for all eternity for no redeeming value).” Your common sense is irrelevant to the truths of scripture when they directly contradict numerous passages totally.OK, let me get this Isaiah 26:9 off the table. SirDent (and every major translator and theologian) know the meaning of thelo. You keep trying to make it a definite statement, but it is known to all as conditional. The word "will" is only a definite for God. Everything else is indefinite. Nothing in the future is certain to man. So, the word "will" to man is, by definition, indefinite. So, then it needs a translator to determine whether that "will" is the "will" to God or the "will" to man. As SirDent correctly wrote, this is the word of "will" to man. In plain terms, I can say I will do something. There is no certainty in that at all. That would be the word thelo. God knows what will happen, and everyone knows that that is not the word thelo.Knowing the true translation of thelo, Isaiah means " My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.” It does not come even remotely close to saying that God will grant everyone salvation.As to there being no hell, no reputable theologian or religious leader agrees with you. To further show the credibility of that statement, here are a few examples:Billy Graham; “What is death? Death is spiritual death, and that death means the lake of fire and brimstone that burns forever. That means that every person who rejects Christ and His atoning work is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. And God doesn't cast him there. You know who casts him there? He casts himself! He sends himself to hell because he's rejected God's only Way of salvation, which is through Jesus Christ.”Bob Deffinbaugh; “The doctrine of eternal damnation should cause those who are saved to take sin more seriously. Like unbelievers, Christians are inclined to minimize sin. Our Lord died for sin. Hell was intended for sin.”E. L. Mascall; “Hell is not compatible with God’s love; it is a direct consequence of it.”Rick Warren; “Well, first I believe in hell because Jesus talked about it. In fact, Jesus talked more about hell then He did heaven. He said it is a real place and it is a place of eternal torment. And I believe Jesus knows more about it than either you or I.But second, I believe in hell because logic and fairness demand it. Think of all the atrocities and evil that have been done throughout history by evildoers in this world. For God to allow those crimes to go unpunished would mean that God is not worthy of our worship and love.Now why would a loving God send anyone to hell? Well in a nutshell, God doesn’t. God doesn't send anybody to hell. We choose to go there when we reject the love of God.”Bill Hybels; “Hell is like gehenna, the smoldering trash dump outside Jerusalem.”Jeff Miller; “Early in my relationship with God I awoke to the realization that there is a real heaven and a real hell, and that I will one day be a permanent resident of one or the other.”Tony Evans; “Forever is too long to miss Christ in hell.”These men are followed by millions of people. Their websites are a lot bigger than mine. You keep saying there is no hell because YOU say so. Well, the combination of Bible translators and these men are credible. That is not an insult. It is a fact. I am not credible, unless compared to bibletruths.com. The Bible translations are credible, and every major religion leader is in totality credible.Please do yourself a favor and quote a passage of scripture that says there is no hell and get one major theologian that agrees with you on it - just one, any one. Give up on Isaiah 26:9. No one will agree with you on that. Do the same for the statement that all will someday be saved. Not some Easter egg hunt. That is a silly game. Then, we can have a real debate. Right now, I find myself just trying to get some sense of commonality with you to be able to let you see reason and just the most obvious errors of your writing.
I can't even read your crap. You've lied twice in only a few lines. First of all, bibletruths.com is visited thousands of times more than your sight (I'm here arguing with only two people, for God's sake). And where did you get that stupid number from?
When did I say all wouldn't be saved? I didn't!! You lie!! I said that nobody has been saved,,,, yet!! I specifically said that most would go through the judgement first. Didn't I tell you to read Isaiah 26:9 again? What do you think happens when the world's inhabitants learn righteousness? Are they cast into some fabled hell then, or are they saved? Read what I write so that you can make true statements. I'll answer the rest of your misguided swill when I have the spiritual patience to digest it.
P.S. I did notice you saying something about brimstone in your hell. What in all false doctrine hell is the point of having brimstone for the sake of torture?
By the way, it's my understanding that bibletruths.com is in the top 50,000 visited sites. Better check yo numbers man!!
REVISED POST DUE TO FORMAT ERROR FROM MS WORD:
Dan;
Let's deal with the credibility of bibletruths.com. We can quantify it. Bibletruths.com can scarcely stand the test of credibility on the surface. It is the 4,053,309th largest website in the world. Wow, I just got really credible. My website is way over 2 million ahead of them. That is not credibility. Come on, Dan, is that the best you have?
Well, as to the rest of your post, I would love to see you make up your mind. Now you claim that you did not say that all will be saved. Your latest claim is "Now let's just go over some things from your latest post. First of all, I never said that anyone has been saved, yet". Again, you said "This is only the beginning to the proof of the salvation of all". Now, you say "Comparing scriptures shows without doubt, that the salvation of all is scriptural." That is totally false, and the Bible says it over and over again. Again, you are out on that limb all by yourself without a single Christian leader or scholar with you. Again, I say very plainly, you have no claim to the statement that all will be saved at any point. Only Jesus can lay that claim. You nor I have any idea, and if I had to say one way or the other (but I don’t), I would say definitely all will not be saved.
Your only other claim is “I know this based on common sence (A God of Love does not torture people for all eternity for no redeeming value).” Your common sense is irrelevant to the truths of scripture when they directly contradict numerous passages totally.
OK, let me get this Isaiah 26:9 off the table. SirDent (and every major translator and theologian) know the meaning of thelo. You keep trying to make it a definite statement, but it is known to all as conditional. The word "will" is only a definite for God. Everything else is indefinite. Nothing in the future is certain to man. So, the word "will" to man is, by definition, indefinite. So, then it needs a translator to determine whether that "will" is the "will" to God or the "will" to man. As SirDent correctly wrote, this is the word of "will" to man. In plain terms, I can say I will do something. There is no certainty in that at all. That would be the word thelo. God knows what will happen, and everyone knows that that is not the word thelo.
Knowing the true translation of thelo, Isaiah means " My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.” It does not come even remotely close to saying that God will grant everyone salvation.
As to there being no hell, no reputable theologian or religious leader agrees with you. To further show the credibility of that statement, here are a few examples:
Billy Graham; “What is death? Death is spiritual death, and that death means the lake of fire and brimstone that burns forever. That means that every person who rejects Christ and His atoning work is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. And God doesn't cast him there. You know who casts him there? He casts himself! He sends himself to hell because he's rejected God's only Way of salvation, which is through Jesus Christ.”
Bob Deffinbaugh; “The doctrine of eternal damnation should cause those who are saved to take sin more seriously. Like unbelievers, Christians are inclined to minimize sin. Our Lord died for sin. Hell was intended for sin.”
E. L. Mascall; “Hell is not compatible with God’s love; it is a direct consequence of it.”
Rick Warren; “Well, first I believe in hell because Jesus talked about it. In fact, Jesus talked more about hell then He did heaven. He said it is a real place and it is a place of eternal torment. And I believe Jesus knows more about it than either you or I.
But second, I believe in hell because logic and fairness demand it. Think of all the atrocities and evil that have been done throughout history by evildoers in this world. For God to allow those crimes to go unpunished would mean that God is not worthy of our worship and love.
Now why would a loving God send anyone to hell? Well in a nutshell, God doesn’t. God doesn't send anybody to hell. We choose to go there when we reject the love of God.”
Bill Hybels; “Hell is like gehenna, the smoldering trash dump outside Jerusalem.”
Jeff Miller; “Early in my relationship with God I awoke to the realization that there is a real heaven and a real hell, and that I will one day be a permanent resident of one or the other.”
Tony Evans; “Forever is too long to miss Christ in hell.”
These men are followed by millions of people. Their websites are a lot bigger than mine. You keep saying there is no hell because YOU say so. Well, the combination of Bible translators and these men are credible. That is not an insult. It is a fact. I am not credible, unless compared to bibletruths.com. The Bible translations are credible, and every major religion leader is in totality credible.
Please do yourself a favor and quote a passage of scripture that says there is no hell and get one major theologian that agrees with you on it - just one, any one. Give up on Isaiah 26:9. No one will agree with you on that. Do the same for the statement that all will someday be saved. Not some Easter egg hunt. That is a silly game. Then, we can have a real debate. Right now, I find myself just trying to get some sense of commonality with you to be able to let you see reason and just the most obvious errors of your writing.
Dan;
Do you have any medication for that or anything? It is likely that your uncontrolled anger is making you unable to reason anymore. The website measuring authority is Alexa.com. There are others, but here is their analysis using a partial screen print: Bibletruths.com
Overview| Rank: 4,053,309
What was that about a liar? Who was that? You are unable to back up any claim you make. You are a hot headed person, and you are becoming increasingly irrational and insulting. I brought that to your attention earlier more than once.
You continue to spew horrific anger, but you refuse to deal with the facts. I asked you to back up the claims and you just spew evil insults. You are contributing nothing with that, and you denigrate the Holy Father. So, I suggest that you back up your claims that there is no hell and that everyone is saved. You are stuck in reverse right now.
That was painful. I actually read that whole post and man, . .. . that was utterly painful.
The reason no theologian would back up what I say is because. . . . . well,. . . . they are theologians of the worldly synogogues.
They are in fact:
Rev. 17:4-5“Mystery Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth” What do they do?Isa 30:10Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: (Just listen to Joel Olstein sometime.)
Rev. 2:1, 2, 9
I know the Blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan.
These are not the chosen. The chosen are:
II Cor. 2:17
For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ (KJ)For we are not, as the many, driving a petty trade with the word of God (New Trans., By J.B. RotherhamFor we are not as the majority, who are peddling the word of God (Concordant Literal New Testament)For I seek not Profit by setting the word of God to sale (Conybeare)Yeah, who is it that demands 10% of your earnings? I'll continue.
II Pet. 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies,. . . . And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you. . .
So Viral, who do you think this is talking about, and when did these false teachings enter into the church?
Acts 20:27-32
. . . . For I know this, that after my departing shall Grievous Wolves enter in among you, Not Sparing the Flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking Perverse Things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
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This is similar to:Deut. 31:29
For I know that after my death you will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days: because you will do evil in the sight of the lord, to provoke Him to anger through the works of your hands.
II Tim. 3:13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
II Tim. 4:2-4
. . . shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (The Church in Paul’s day had the truth)
Matt. 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not:
Prophesied in Thy Name (atheists and pagans don’t do this)In They Name have cast out devils (atheists and pagans don’t do this)And in Thy Name done many wonderful works? (atheists and pagans do nothing in the name of Christ)And then will I profess I never knew you: Depart from me you that work iniquity.
This very same thing happened in the OT.
Jer. 5:31
The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and My people love to have it so. . .
Jer. 50:6
My people have been lost sheep: Their shepherds have caused them to go astray. . .
But how can so many churchians be wrong?
Matt 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ, and shall deceive many. (Who are the many?)
The church is the same yesterday, today, and to come.
Matt. 10:17
But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues.
The church hates the truths of God.
John 16:2
They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time comes that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service.
So what are the chosen of Christ commanded to do?
Rev. 18:2-4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (What do you think her stands for?)
What are the ministers of the church today symbolically?
Mark 13:22
For false Christ’s (Which Christ do you believe in? The savior or the failure?) and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. (Benny Hinn comes to mind)
In scripture, the light of the moon represents the truth reflected by the church. Why in Revelations, does it say “the moon shall be turned to blood”?
This has been going on for two thousand years. So perhaps the beliefs of the Grams and other theologians are as blind as I've been trying to tell you.
Oh, I did ask what the brimstone is for in the Lake of Fire (not your fabled hell).
Burning with brimstone (sulfur)? But why??
Sulfur was used by ancient religions, for purifying (fumigating) and for bleaching cloth. Encyclopedia Britannica-“Ancient producers described their method of obtaining sulfur from its ore as purification by fire.”
Properties-Sulfur is tasteless and odorless (in its purest form) and has no action on the skin. Sulfur is a poor conductor of both heat and electricity. . .(Brimstone or sulfur has been used in medicines and sulfur pills saved many lives during WWII.
I think that we can determine that this spiritual brimstone will be used for the purification of the spiritually sick who are cast into the Lake of Fire.Continuing:Brimstone (theion or fire from heaven)-comes from the Greek word theios which means: Divine, of the power of God and of God’s nature.Isa. 30:last verse
For Tophet is ordained of old for the King it is prepared; He has made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, does kindle it.
Are you ready to open your eyes to these truths? What am I saying? Only Christ can do this for you. But, you can try to meditate on it.
Didn't you also compare God's will to that of man? If man says he will do something than it means that he might try. I find it hard to believe that you put God on the same level. By the way, Sir Dent didn't come close to showing a flaw in the scriptural meaning (not some modern dictinary) of the word thelo. But it wouldn't matter if God only desired to save all. He can do whatever He desires. Even though He wills it.
Neither I nor Ray ever said that bibletruths.com holds a monopoly on the truths of God. Stop putting words in our mouths. I just give credit when it's necessarry.
Dan;
Do you have a mirror?
Yes, I can see the reflection of a flawed, sinning human. However, I also see one who is brutelly honest with himself and others.
Dan;
Well, out of that, I guess we would want to shoot for honest, huh? By the way, it is "brutally", and I would concur with your assessment of your behavior here. Here is the translation of brutal. Are you saying that you are proud of that?
1.savage; cruel; inhuman: a brutal attack on the village.
2.crude; coarse: brutal language.
3.harsh; ferocious: brutal criticism; brutal weather.
4.taxing, demanding, or exhausting: They're having a brutal time making ends meet.
5.irrational; unreasoning.
6.of or pertaining to lower animals.
So, let's see if we can rally around just honest and see if we can make any progress together. You still have made no legitimate attempt to even try to give support to your claims that there is no hell and all will be saved or are saved, as the case may be. A legitimate attempt would be scripture, not your commentary of it. I know the 46 scriptures you have quoted, and absolutely none of them says in any way that there is no hell. I have asked you for that vaildation of your false opinion repeatedly, but you keep drifting away from the point that brought you here to begin with - your unproven and incorrect speculation that there is no hell.
Instead, what you have done is to make some attempt to weave a story that is not in the Bible using many scriptures (some of my favorites, in fact), but entwined with your wild commentary of them, spewing insults as you go. The Word was not on your side, so you needed the commentary as a bridge to draw false conclusions.
The seven most recognized translations of the Bible all clearly recognize hell. On average, hell is referenced 400 times each. You have no recognized translation that says there is no hell or refutes these seven translations.
You hinge your mentor as some Ray guy. I use the top theologians by objective standards, as most people would see it. These guys have about a zillion times the repute of Ray.
I have stated just two passages so far, but I have many more. These do not simply state that there is a hell, they show its relevence. They do show what the Bible says will condemn someone to hell or keep them from inheriting the kingdom of God. What that did, Dan, was to refute both of your hypotheses in just two passages. I need to provide no commentary, just scripture. As I have said earlier, I can point to over 400 individual evidences that people for hundreds of years have agreed are evidence that there is a hell. It is not as easy to count how many places refute your theory that all will be saved sometime. Dan, if you cannot disprove these two (just two, not 46), then there is no need to go further. Of course, you cannot disprove the truth. That would not be honest, just brutal.
Really Dan, can you be honest in claiming this is just a big conspiracy? Everyone is out to create a hell out of nothing? Wow, Dan, that would be some conspiracy!
Your defense against my arguments are that these leaders of the faith are to be put in a class with the worst people, but you stated nothing specific against even one of them. That was immature and uneducated. It has zero validity because of the people they are, viewed in totality for sure. In other words, you cannot discredit them, so you insult them. Hopefully, if you are honest (with yourself), you will see that as a recurring theme in your work against the Word. That tactic is like a boomerang, Dan, and that is why I interjected a mirror into your thinking.
Dan, using commentary to bridge scripture is the work of a child, not a mature debater of the faith. If you cannot make any point of your debate true, then that does not mean that they are true in totality. It is simply a lot of false statements.
I am contending that that is what you have done. You have proven nothing (and you cannot prove it) because each statement does not prove your point. Take all 46 passages that you presented. Find your best argument that there is no hell. Then, present that scripture so we can debate that. No commentary, just scripture. Which of those scriptures says that there is no hell? Save the commentary.
Then show that the two scriptures I presented do not mean that God has ordained that there is there is such a thing as sin and it will be enforced with eternal hell if Jesus does not speak up to save.
So Dan, you have called me just about every name in the book (the book that Satan wrote). You have railed against the highest reputed theologians. You have questioned the top translations of the Bible and even the motives of their authors. Your claim is that your speculation is stronger evidence. To be honest...
The bible also does'nt tell us that the toothferry doesn't exist. Why do you feel God's word requires that all of the misunderstandings of His word for close to two thousand years, have to be retracted in it's pages? Of course the bible doesn't say that hell does not exist. It was never there in the first place. You back up this wicked doctrine by the fact that most bibles still use this word (no where near 400 times though, I can't imagine where this number came from). It is abundantly clear that certain words were used for the purpose of protecting false doctrines. For instance, why in all of modern day Babylon would the translaters have been so selective in whether Sheol was translated grave or hell? Well, here's one that was translated hell:
Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol), and all the nations that forget God.
Oh, I see. Us dumb sheep will never see such deception of the KJ translators.Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible-The lawless shall return to hades, All nations forgetful of God.
(Concordant)-The wicked shall return to the unseen, all nations forgetful of God.
So did you see that deception? How can anybody be turned into hell? That makes no sense. But hey, maybe that was just with Sheol. Why was Hades translated hell? It's the Greek equivalent of Sheol. Need proof?
Acts 2:27
Because You will not leave my soul in hell (hades), neither will You suffer your holy one to see corruption. Quoted from:
Psalm 16:10
For You will not leave My soul in hell (sheol) neither will You suffer your holy one to see corruption. (you gotta love this one)
Sheol and hades are the same!!!
Then you have Gehenna which absolutely does not mean a place of eternal torment. Christ used Gehenna as a symbol of judgement because the people of that day thought that Gehenna represented judgement in the physical sense.
Once a few mistranslations (mainly hell and eternal) are cleared up you really have nothing that points to the christian hell hoax. Your KJ teaches the salvation of all just like every other bible teaches (where did most of the scriptures I quoted come from?)
You have nothing scriptural to back up your weak theology. You tell me about the many who back up this notion of hell, as if that's proof of anything (again, many called, few chosen). You keep asking for a scripture that prooves my point. Just read them!! They're already up there. I could give you many more but you don't even see the ones I listed. There are type and shaddow proofs for the salvation of all in the OT concerning various feasts pertaining to the two major harvests, but why waste my time with that? You obviously don't see any of the truths I've shown. Instead, you accuse me of calling you names and such. The only way I've attacked your character is by exposing some blatent lies on your part. What I wrote concerning the modern day church was full of scripture. If you read the words carefully you might see (I doubt it, though) that the churches of this world are prophesized in The Revelations of Christ. It makes perfect sense. I only "go there" when people such as yourself, try to justify their false truths by giving me the large numbers of supporters for them. The scriptures identified these theologians and their churches long before they came about. I hope that some of your readers will see these truths. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time because you probably won't, during your physical life. It's all in God's hands.
Just one more thing for those interested.
Check bible-truths.com for the real rankings of the site world wide. I thought it would be the same as bibletruths.com but apparantly it isn't.
Hopefully Viral won't deleate this post as well.
Dan;
It is true that it requires biblical study to count the uses of hell in a translation, but it is just one word. I guess I will take heart that at least you realize that it requires something you can't imagine (a big server and some open source software do the trick if you know what you are doing). I will list below 23 theologians with a minimum of a doctor's degree that agree that hell is used in the Bible over 400 times. Yes, Dan, I will be glad to prove that one, too.
Dan, all the calling of the bible wicked will not help. You still are batting zero. You have never proven a thing. The translations all stand as written. All the major theologians are still unchallenged. Hell is still real. You have done nothing to counter a thing. I stated there is a hell. You came bashing in here to proclaim the gospel of Dan that there is no hell. How do you expect any rational person to believe just your commentary alone as evidence? that is like saying 2+2=5 because it is the new mathematical theory of Dan.
I do have to pull out this one, though. It is particularly typical of your writing. You wrote: "Why do you feel God's word requires that all of the misunderstandings of His word for close to two thousand years, have to be retracted in it's pages?" Do you really think that the word of Dan on Hubpages will suffice?
We got nowhere once again with your most recent post. You cannot show me that Revelation 21:8 can fit your criteria that there is no hell and all will someday be saved. My job here has been really easy. You can't prove one thing, not one thing.
This is simple, Dan, really. All you have to do is read one verse at a time and make one reply at a time. All the insults, misrepresentations, commentary and self aggrandizement will accomplish nothing. Your personal translation of the bible is totally unsupported by all theologians of repute. Hell is real, and there is no truth to the theory that all will be saved one day. Goodbye to the gospel of Dan.
Richard E. Averbeck, Ph.D.
Allen P. Ross, Ph.D.
Brian L. Webster, Ph.
D.Buist M. Fanning III, Ph.D.
Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D.
Darrell L. Bock, Ph.D.
David K. Lowery, Ph.D.
Dorian Coover-Cox, Ph.D.
Eugene H. Merrill, Ph.D.
Gordon H. Johnston, Th.D.
Gregory J. Herrick, Ph.D.
Harold W. Hoehner, Ph.D.
James Routt, Ph.D.
Jay E. Smith, Ph.D.
John D. Grassmick, Ph.D.
M. Daniel Carroll R., Ph.D.
Michael A. Grisanti, Ph.D.
Michael H. Burer, Ph.D.,
Richard A. Taylor, Ph.D.
Robert B. Chisholm, Th.D.
Steven H. Sanchez, Ph.D.
W. Hall Harris III, Ph.D.
William D. Barrick, Th.D.
Dan;
Your mistruths are getting old. I have never deleted a post in all the time on Hubpages.
Well, well, well!! He put my post back where it belongs. And again he lies. Misquotes me suggesting that I think the Bible is evil, rather than the orthodox interpretations of it are evil. You're not fooling anyone with eyes to see. The non-blind can see that I have throuroughly destroyed (with help of course) the orthodox inspired hell hoax. Then you give me a list of Babylon's ministers who say that hell is listed about 400 times in the bible. Get real man!! While they are clueless themselves, even they know that the 400 comes from a list of every word associated with the concept of hell. For instance: Many feel that "worm dieth not" is speaking of worms devouring people in hell. Nonsense!! But they include that as one of the instances where hell is being spoken of. How about "nashing of teeth"? Yeah, they count that also (I actually know what nashing of teeth symbolizes, the worms are more of a literal presence in Gehenna.). Lake of Fire? That's another one. I am blessed to know at least the basics of what the Lake of Fire is. So spare me a list of the blind who have a paper from some theological semetary where they bury the truth(That's Ray's joke by the way).
Why would anyone continue visiting this site? You have no spiritual understanding. Even a Babylon preacher would probably give it up at this point. I understand they usually just end with "I believe these things on faith" when presented with these truths. Do me a favor Viral: Read every last thing that I have written so far (even the commentary that you despise). Meditate on it. Think before you write the same ol spiritual swill in response to me.
By the way, you are probably the first person to actually accuse me of self-aggrandizement.
Dan;
I read every word you wrote, twisted though it was. I, too, realize the futility of our dialogue. You proved absolutely nothing, and I am happy to let it stand for all to decide for themselves. My words stand as written, too.
You will live with your insults when you come before the Lord. I am thrilled to come before Him with my work here. I consider my work finished as far as you are concerned.
You refused to prove your points. You thought I would be distracted by your insults. You can take them up with God. They roll off of me. Revelation 21:8...
Brilliant!!!
Before I go, just click that "Hell does not exist" Ad. at the top of the page. Check in with Ray, I'm sure he'd like to here from you.
Dan;
You may see me down the road. This got me behind on spreading the gospel and helping the needy. I would encourage true Christians to go there, though, and spread the truth of the actual scriptures of the Bible, not some false commentary.
God bless you!
Hey, what happened to that other clown's hub? You know, the one with the graphic of the hard boiled egg split in half that was supposed to show hell? That farce of a hub was getting hot. . . .like your hell. Ha ha ha!!!
Dan;
Hey, how's it Going?
Let me go look and see what is going on. I will post what I can find out. It is nice to hear from you. I am glad you still have that eternal optimist sense of humor - lol.
Dan;
Sorry I missed your comment for so long. I have been redoing my barn roof, and I have been real lax here. Sure enough, that hub has been pulled. I hope he was not put off by our frank disagreements. Most people do not want our level of determination to our beliefs. I saw him as a straight shooter with the willingness to hold his groung, though. If I sense I put someone off, I really do try to back off. It may not appear that way, though.
Hey Viral, I'm sure we'll all have a good laugh when we think back on our fleshly lives. You know, back in the time when so many believed in such a horrific destination of unrepentant sinners. Maybe I'll be one of the one's who will help set the lost straight. Or maybe I'll fall short. But my salvation as well as yours and every one elses, ultimatelly, is a sure thing. You might be interested in checking out a sight I recently discovered. Check out http://hell-fact-or-fable.com/index.html You may find that there are other witnesses to what I've been trying to point out. God be with you.
Dan;
Yes, salvation is ours. I hope you check in with us, so we know what you're up to.
We have a little gathering place for Christinas. I tis generally a light place to pray and keep each other inspired. You are most welcome to come get to know everyone. Hey, your buddy, SirDent would love to hear from you, I'm sure, too. He checks in daily.
http://hubpages.com/hub/stumprfrwc
God bless you, Dan.
Hi, I and another hubber sure could use your help. This is from Linda's hub:
IF YOUR A CHRISTIAN THEN JESUS IS CALLING "YOU" RIGHT NOW!
EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN MUST STAND UP NOW MORE THAN EVER BEFORE! EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN MUST TAKE A STAND AND FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING WITHIN YOU AGAINST THIS HEALTHCARE PLAN! WE MUST STAND TOGETHER AND TELL OUR GOVT OFFICIALS WE WILL NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM PAY FOR ABORTIONS WITH OUR $$$ UNDER THIS HEALTHCARE PLAN THEY ARE PROPOSING! YES! WHETHER YOU ARE FOR OR AGAINST ABORTIONS, THIS HEALTH CARE PLAN STATES WE WILLLLLLLLL HAVE TO BE FUNDING ABORTIONS!!!! NOOOO MATTER WHAT OUR FAITH IS!!!!! THIS HEALTHCARE PLAN ALSO "RATIONS" HEALTHCARE!!!! YES!!!!!! YOUR HEALTHCARE WOULD BE LITERALLY........... "RATIONED" ......... DON;T LEAVE THIS TO "OTHER" CHRISTIANS...............FRIENDS, JESUS NEEDS EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY CHRISTIAN TO STAND TOGETHER AND FIGHT!!!!!! THATS WHY I AM PLEADING WITH "YOU" TO MAKE EVEN "YOUR" VOICE HEARD!!!! CALL YOUR STATE REPRESENITIVES WHILE THEY ARE NOW CURRENTLY HOME ON THEIR SUMMER VACATIONS!!!!! CALL THEM NOW AND MAKE YOUR VOICE KNOWN TO THEM...........TELL THEM NOOOOOOOOOOO!..!!!! AND DO IT NOW, "BEFORE" THEY GO BACK TO WASHINGTON TO VOTE ON THIS AFTER THEIR SUMMER BREAKS.
SIGN THE PETITIONS, THEY ARE STANDING BY THE PHONES RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT TAKING YOUR CALLS TO MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD ........ CALL 1-877-989-2255
OR GO TO......
ACLJ.ORG
LASTLY, PLEASE BE SURE TO PASS THIS ON TO REACH AS MANY AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. THANK YOU & GOD BLESS YOU ALL:)IF YOUR A CHRISTIAN THEN JESUS IS CALLING "YOU" RIGHT NOW! Body: Thanks!!
SirDent says:
18 months ago
Very welll written. AMEN!!!