Is the Pope really infallible?
63History of a Catholic Doctrine
The short answer to the question is: "No!"
The Pope is a human being and therefore cannot be infallible, He is a person like anyone else although in a very specialised and specific role.
Of course there is also a long answer. The long answer depends on history and theology and politics as much as any dogmatic position taken by any other church denomination or even religion.
The history part is that in the late 19th Century the Catholic Church was under threat as much or more than it had been in the time of the Reformation some hundreds of years before.
The threats to the Church came from modernism and especially the "theory" of evolution. The Church had to respond in some way to the erosion of Churchly authority which came from the revolution in France, the industrial revolution and the the burgeoning socialist movement, all which were claiming the allegiance of the ordinary people, traditionally the source of the Church's power and influence in society.
The First Vatican Council was called in 1868 with two major purposes in mind: to pronounce the doctrine of Papal Infallibility and to counter the threats posed by modernism, especially rationalism, liberalism and materialism. These two purposes were of course linked.
The Council met in late 1869 to late 1870 and duly pronounced the Pope Infallible, though not without opposition, even from within the Church itself.
The doctrine of Papal Infallibility was received with dismay in many other Christian Churches and has been a stumbling block to the Ecumenical movement ever since.
The Doctrine is, however, circumscribed by a plethora of conditions so that not everything the Pope says or decrees is seen as Infallible, even by supporters of the doctrine. In fact since the promulgation of the Doctrine only one "Infallible" statement has been made by a Pope: the Doctrine of the Bodily Assumption of Mary into Heaven which was proclaimed an article of Catholic Faith in 1950 by PopePius XII. Even some Catholic theologians dispute this doctrine.
For myself as a Catholic I cannot accept it either, which in the eyes of some would make me not a Catholic, I guess.
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Comments
Yes, I grew up both Catholic AND Protestant, soon figuring out with both groups that it was "man" who declared "man" to be infallible. (Trust me; Protestants have their version too.) People who run religions hold onto power any way they can.
Sadly, all this posturing and rule-making has little to do with honoring, loving and working in unison with God. In the end it dishonors God to be so fearful and manipulative, completely contrary to the teachings of Jesus who said, "Trust Me!"
Tonymac04 very informative, I'm not a catholic but love church history. Thanks for adding to my knowledge base.
In Christ
ABR
Can you tell me Tony, as you are Catholic, what is it about being a Catholic which distinguishes you from any other denomination? Is their any particular belief which sets you apart from other Christians? What is it that persuades you to remain a Catholic?
Thanks for all the comments. I will reply in particular to Finbarr.
I think that all Christians share the basic belief as stated in the Creeds, Nicene or Apostolic. Where they differ in in the interpretation of certain doctrines, practices or beliefs like the Trinity, the Lord's Supper, etc. And its these interpretations which give each denomination its particular character.
Now I must tell you that I was brought up in the Anglican
Church and converted to Roman Catholicism quite late in life, and am now what I term a "free-lance Catholic" in that I don't really accept some things like the assumption of Mary (which the church only proclaimed as doctrine sometime in the 1950s if I'm not mistaken), and certainly not the teaching on infallibility.
What I like about the Church is the liturgy as it has evolved since Vatican II with its strong emphasis on community and the sacrament of unity.
But the Church shares with some other Christians an obscurantist streak which I don't like, and I'm not impressed with the insistence on a celibate priesthood, which, apart from causing much trauma for the priests involved, sets up a duality in the churhc between laity and clergy which is fundamnetally unhealthy, in my humble view.
As I have written in another Hub I am also not impressed with any teaching of exclusivity, which Pope John XXIII tried to get rid of but which the church has rather clung to, especially during the last two papacies.
I hope this rather long comment answers your very interesting question, for which I thank you - its helped to me think about these issues again!
Love and peace
Tony
I am truly grateful for your comments. My question was really that of an enquirer. I can’t see that is was particularly interesting though! In my profile I mentioned religious belief as important and because of this I have examined the claims of the major world religions. I built up a great relationship, for example, with a man (through helping translate the Asian writer Waris Shah into English) who is a devout Moslem. Reference Christianity: I have enjoyed the friendship of many from different persuasions. I take the claims of catholics in particular most seriously because I have come into contact with so many of you… Having read your response, I am sorry to say that I am not at all clear as to what it is that keeps you in the Roman Catholic Church (apart from your liking for its liturgy post Vatican Council 2. -hardly persuasive. It’s just that I was curious as to whether or not there are one or more beliefs (doctrines?) that you considered indispensable to being a Christian?
E.G. : The Eucharist (true presence?) The role and necessity of the Priesthood or say, the belief in Purgatory for example? Sacramental life?
Thank you for explaining the reservations you have and doctrines that you reject but they only make me wonder the more why you stay under the authority which Catholics claim. Especially when you seem to believe it has an ‘obscurantist’ streak and are not happy with teachings of ‘exclusivity’. It would be good to get to the heart of this as I am still open to being persuaded one way or the other.
I am told for example that the Apostolic creed was basically a faithful summary of the Apostles faith and that the Nicene creed draws its authority from the first two Ecumenical Councils in 325 and 381 in response to deviant groups. You seem to say that personal and individual interpretation of these creeds which led many years later to the establishment of other denominations or ‘versions’ are of equal value?
I can’t quite get my around ‘obscurantist’. If you mean the Catholic Church has consistently opposed knowledge and enlightenment it does not seem to fit with the hundreds of fine educational schools, hospitals and institutes and scientific involvement which your Church supports around the world today, or perhaps you mean that your church deliberately obscures the truth? Exclusivity, from an objective outsider, seems to fit more with other denominations and cults than with your own church which was founded I believe to ‘preach the good news’ to every being and seems to welcome as far as I can see, everybody regardless, who will accept its claims, teachings and
discipline.
Tony, it is good to share these things in the pursuit of understanding. I feel in closing that I ought to say that I spoke to a Catholic priest here in England (I realise things might be very different in your country) who smiled and said that ‘free-lance’ over here was understood as being ‘pick ’n mix’. (Believe what you want and leave the rest). I have also been told that Anglicans regard ‘Eucharist’ as a means of achieving unity whereas Catholics regard it as being a sign of unity already achieved? You seem to be ‘doing yourself down’. Perplexed!
May you too experience love and peace.
Finbarr.
Thanks Finbarr for your response. I guess I need to explain that by "free lance" I meant that I don't remain under the authority of any one church, I tend to be somewhat ecumenical and feel free to visit and worship wherever I find myself. I like a lot about the Catholic Church but would not any longer really consider myself a Catholic in the strict sense. I read widely adn think a lot.
What I mean by obscurantist is an attitude of not wanting to allow freedom of searching and exploring. the Catholics have indeed had wonderful schools which have produced wonderful people. What I am referring to is more of an attitude thing. The church doesn't encourage open debate about issues - take birth control, abortion and a few other sisues like that and the attitude of the church is kind of this is our doctrine, take it or leave it. For instance I have no problem with using birth control and my priest has also no problem, but the church has a problem with that and strictly speaking I could be excommunicated for using birth control. Now that I call obscurantist. The church is also not happy with some other scientific advances and theories and would like them to go away. but they won't go away.
I have a great interest in the existential philosophers but was told by one priest that I shouldn't read them because they are not Christian.
Then the whole celibacy issue is also a problem for me.
So you see that I do kind of pick and mix as your priest friend said. I do love the liturgy, post Vatican II definitely not Tridentine.
I also have a problem with the prsent Pope and his predecessor who both seem to me to be trying very hard to close the windows that the blessed John XXIII so courageously threw open.
I'm not sure that I can give you more of an answer (besides its late at night and I'm tired!) but I hope some of this makes sense to you. I guess I am still struggling with issues of faith and spirituality even now at age 65!
I have a questioning mind and believe in the value of questioning, always looking. The questioning is to me more valuable than the answer. Once there is an answer there is nothing more to do but accept the answer and that doesn't sit well with me. I always think there must be more.
Yes? No? I don't know and that's why I keep looking.
Love and peace
Tony
Good morning Tony! I have been away for a while in Shropshire (property searching) so just 'tuned in to your wavelength' again! I believe I understand your position a little better now. It actually gives me the impression that you also are still searching -to a degree at least.Let us encourage each other to keep questioning but for myself, and from my understanding of the Catholic Church's teaching... I do not expect to 'arrive' in this life. I can only hope to rest in the place where I will feel most nourished and in a sense, most challenged, to accept that my own will and preferences are not the most desirable of virtues and are subordinate to following the teachings of Jesus Christ from a source of genuine authority. A place where I feel engulfed with a sense of peace and hope.(This happened to me when I stayed for a while in a Monastery in Sable-sur-Sarthe.) Re 'excommunication', I am told that it is very seldom nowadays that your Church formally 'excommunicates' a person. The current norm I believe is that by their actions, recalcitrance, heretical teachings or refusal to attend the Eucharistic sacrifice; a baptised person or person received into full communion with the Catholic Church incurs 'automatic' excommunication or in other words, 'excommunicates' themselves! This knowledge makes any decision to be received fully into your Church, one which needs very careful consideration and discernment! Whatever!
We can only wish each other God's guidance on our searching. (If there is one of course! Personally I believe there is.) Moving away from Religion and Christianity in particular, I hope to do one or two more pieces on Jazz in general and also about locations in England which are less well known. I say this because I notice you have written about some locations yourself. You may be of retirement age but keeping striding out my friend!
hey, i am a catholic and I went to Catholic school and I am a very faithful follower of Catholicism and can enlighten you.I could tell you the pope is infallible. This means he is always right when it comes to faith and morals because faith and morals never change. Morals has to do with abortion and birth control and the things you were talking about how you cannot use it in the Catholic Church. The reason the Church does not change morals and go with some current science is the same reason why the law bans murder. Because birth control, abortion and those other issues are immoral and they have always been immoral. If new science uses immoral means it is immoral and they should use other ways that are moral. Take for example embryo stem cell research. It is immoral to the Catholic Church because it uses abortion, which is killing babies, in order to help other people. Plus, we aren't sure if embryonic stem cell research actually works. We know there are other ways to cure without using other peoples body especially dead babies who never had a chance at life. You're right when you said that these sciences would never go away, which is sad off course because they are immoral.
Tony, you can read a non christian philosopher's work but keep in your mind your faith and morals and what you believe and know he is wrong.
Sarah - thanks for your comment. Technically the Pope is only "infallible" when he makes an ex-cathedra pronouncement, such as the one I alluded to the Hub, the one about the bodily assumption of Mary. That is the only "infallible" statement ever made by a Pope. The problem with the doctrine is that it almost inevitably becomes expanded to cover all statements made by the Pope, which is not correct. Science as the pursuit of knowledge through a specific method cannot be itself immoral. It is what people do with the knowledge that might be immoral or moral, depending on the point of view of the person observing what is being done with the knowledge. Splitting the atom was not immoral, but using that knowledge found in the process to create an atom bomb is, in my view, immoral.
Mickey - truth is to be found and experienced in many places - Jesus himself said that in His Father's house there are many mansions. Let the windows stay open to allow the fresh breezes in and keep our minds clear.
Love and peace
Tony
Good article. Way to explain things without being too obtuse about it. I'd like to see a little bit more of an opinion, though ... just to give us all something to scrap and accuse each other of being homophobes about ...
NOT
It's good to see an article here on HubPages where the debate is actually sharing wisdom and facts instead of snubbing, sniping, and namecalling.
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William F. Torpey says:
18 months ago
A thorough and excellent answer to a tough question, tonymac04. I was raised as a Roman Catholic and was taught by the good Sisters of Charity through the 8th grade. There have been many significant changes in the Church since that time. Thank you for answering this request.