Joe the Plumber
53A Hypothetical Question
Just saw a ABC news clip interview, Diane Sawyers talking to Joe the Plumber.
He says he's nowhere near earning $250,000 a year, but if he was earning that much he wouldn't like having to pay the extra 3% income tax Obama is suggesting.
He says he feels he should be able to keep all his hard earned income.
When asked what about those who make $1 million of more, should they be taxed an extra 3%, he didn't have a quick answer.
So, now my question is this: why are we getting into such hypothetical discussions in the first place? Can Joe the Plumber project what his feelings will be when and if he is making this great sum of money? His position would then be that of owner. He said to Obama that he hoped one day to be the owner of a plumbing business. Would he be working as hard as he now thinks he would be? Why was he concerned about a possible scenario that might or might not happen some day? Why is he projecting himself into an earning category that doesn't exist for him in reality. And why then, would he decide to not wanting to have to pay the extra 3%?
Is he going to cast his vote in this election based on these hypotheitical considerations?
Reminds me of the question posed to me during the civil rights days back in the '60s. I was asked by a person against civil rights: "How would I like it if my daughter married a black man?" Why my interlocutor believed that such would happen as a consequence of the civil rights issue, is beyond my comprehension. When I told him that I didn't have a daughter, that he was asking me a hypothetical question I couldn't answer, he asked me, "Well, what if you did have a daughter?" To which I replied, "What if she were black?"
In thinking all this out, it occurs to me that probably a lot of people, perhaps most of the voters, make their decisions based on hypothosis, rather than on the realities they actually face. In other words, are people voting for a president based on spurious thinking?
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Yes, I agree. Amazing how people's minds work.
I agree with your great points, and why would McCain make such a big deal of all these hypothetical situations....could the person have been a plant? I'm getting paranoid....naaaa =)) I'm your new fan tho' keep writing!!
{{Amazing how people's minds work}}
or how they don't work ;)
I had that thought too, marisuewrites, but then I dismissed the idea - I guess because I don't believe they would be, or could be that devious.
I have nothing against Obama or McCain or their running mates .What I do find a mystery - first enunciated by Hillary then Palin and now McCain - why the soft gloves when criticising Obama or his missteps. Is the guilt so deep?
What soft gloves are you talking about? And what guilt are you referring to, Heathermom?
I enjoyed this, thanks!
You know, I'm just narcissistic enough that I was truly hurt that neither of the candidates featured Pam the Writer or Bill the Truck Driver in their rhetoric. Plus, Joe isn't a plumber, his name isn't Joe, and he doesn't have a prayer of making anything remotely close to $250,000 any time soon.
Curiouser & curiouser! If you see anything that reads, "drink me!" don't do it! lol!
Good to see you here, pgrundy. Since writing this short piece, I've learned that this guy, Joe - or whoever - owes back taxes. Now I understand why he is so concerned about the vague future.
It is like Alice in Wonderland alright; and I really do think the guy was a plant. He was scripted in his question to Obama, had no intelligent apparent real interest in the reply, I believe McCain's campaign sought out his support in doing it so McCain could bring it out in the debate
It smacks of setup setup setup and it has backfired in their face just like the rest of the nasty tactics and I pray to the election Gods they don't steal another election; they will try.
=))
Yes, they will certainly pull out all the stops trying to manipulate at the polls. The Obama campaign, I'm sure, is well aware, and prepared to deal with this issue headon.
My real concern right now looks to the aftermath. How will all the hate ridden people react to the new adminstration? Maybe they will calm down when they see and experience a lessoning of pressures brought on by the Bush regime?
The lessening of pressures isn't coming any time soon though. The financial markets might settle down ('down' being the operative word) but the real economy slow-down /recession /depression has still to bite. There's nothing the White House can do to turn it around quickly and as people have short memories, the government of the day will get much of the flack. I'm sure Obama knows it's a poison chalice he's inheriting.
Your analysis, Paraglider, is probably correct, I'm sure. The pressures I am referring to are those the Bush regime stimulated. Ever since 9/11 he and his cronies held the American psyche captive with fear tactics, practically duplicating the techniques used by the Chicago gangsters of the 30's with their "protection" rackets. Yes, the new administration will have a huge mess to clean up. And yes, people's lives will slow down as a consequence of recession/depression, and that might be a good thing. I grew up during the great depression of the 30's. People had to help each other in basic ways. I don't suppose the coming economic downturn will resemble that period very much. But any kind of slowdown might help us become humans again as opposed to the robotic-bubble version society has created in recent times.
Very true pg & v.
Sigh. It strikes me the only reason anyone would vote Republican is that they are A) uniformed, B) filled with unreasonable hate, or C), yes, looking out for their own interests financially. I have read that corporate culture depends on a lottery mentality--in our culture, we tell everyone that if you work hard enough, you can be like those in power or those who possess lots of wealth. But this is actually a mechanism to control those who 'would-be.' So that Joe the plumber has bought the myth, and believes he's a shark swimming among a lot of fish. The Republican party (or its present incantation, to be fair) uses these people--so whether he is a plant or not is a moot point--and those who believe that he is I believe are grasping all stated above on an emotional level.
I guess I am becoming inured to the fact that many people do not believe in universal human rights--especially those bright enough or psychologically in a position enough to do so..... I had no idea radiologists made THAT much money--explains why a certain client of my boyfriend's could afford a multi-million dollar house, etc., and seem competent, but also not that bright...
I too have always believed in a greater calling and qualities above wealth and class justifying humanity.... I do not know what the answer is.
I saw the video. Appeared to me Joe was playing big shot to the small crowd there, the way little people will do. McCain used him without forewarning. Kind of like anthropologists throwing modern society in the face of cave era people. It a no-no by any decent person.
I understand now that Joe may have a burgeoning media career from all this. The formula is well established. Make a big enough public fool of yourself and your in the limelight for at least one media season. Who needs SNL?
All I can say about Joe-The-Plumber is, when you enter the real world please leave your fake world behind. and what is is doing on televison talking nonsense.
I too felt Joe-the-non-Plumber was a plant. On any given day, candidates chit chat with dozens of people on rope lines. It was too "convenient" that the McCain campaign heard about Obama's "spread the wealth" remark virtually minutes after he made it. Joe, or rather Sam (his real name), probably didn't have a clue that the media would unearth his secrets - the back taxes, not being licenced to fix anyone's plumbing, or at the time he became the Voter De Jour, that he wasn't even registered to vote! His fame, like Failin' Pailin's, will be fleeting. Sad that neither ever "got" that they were only being used to resuscitate McCain's (second) bid for the Big One. Thank heavens millions of Americans were too smart to let fear decide *another* election, and after 8 long years, we're about to have a real president again!
One would think the GOP faithfuls would get a clue from the Obama Tsunami that the world has changed drastically, but of course that would require awareness of reality. In the last week, I've had emails from several die-hard Repubs claiming Obama isn't a natural born U.S. citizen, and that his "real" birthplace disqualifies him from becoming prez. I replied to one that the millions of Americans who voted for him didn't give a rat's patootie *where* he was born, only that he *wasn't* from the party that dumped this country and its reputation into the toliet.
But then I suspect Obama's meteoric rise from obscurity to the highest office in the land in 4 short years was preordained by the cosmos.
Here's an article that's slightly of topic, which. nevertheless, casts some light on why our societal demise may be nearer than we might think because of people like Joe and Palin, and yes, McCain. http://www.alternet.org/environment/106982/are_hum
"The Moose Stops Here" sums it all up beautifully.
JamaGenee, you may just be right on target with your idea of the cosmos stepping in at a critical juncture in this country's history.
I read the NY Times piece, Ralph. Without trying, the Frank Rich made SNL seem tame. Nice caption he gives; "The Moose Stops Here."
Just read this post and thought to myself, how awful the Mc Cain campaign was and the gimmicks they relied on like Palin and this guy while Obama was bringing out Colin Powell, Warren Buffet, Oprah, and even the Clintons. The funniest and saddest moment of the campaign was in the closing days, Mc Cain was firing up the rednecks and calling for Joe the Plumber to come on stage and Joe wasn't even there. I felt sorry for Mc Cain who is probably a really great guy but it wasn't his time and if he could have beaten Bush eight years ago, I don't think we would be in the state we are in as I don't think he would have let the country go down so hard.
Yes, I agree, the last eight years certainly would have been different, but how can we speculate...it is a mystery to me - perhaps all of us - how McCain allowed the 'advisors' to steer him away from his own instincts. Maybe he thought they knew the 'formula' for winning?
excellent food for thought, vitaeb. Many thanks for your comments on my piezoelectric hub. honestly, i think it stinks. the hub, not the idea. i have to confess i had "hub envy" looking at everyone elses great pages and wanted to get it out as soon as possible. it is nowhere near done. I need to add to and expand it, with better pics and video as well. When it's done it will be very informative and more fleshed out. happy thanksgiving!
Can't wait to see the expanded version of your piezoelectric hub. I'm very interested in alternative energy sources. I'll soon have a new hub up on a favorite topic of mine - chiropractic care. Hope you will check it out. We did our thanksgiving last night. An annual gathering of friends. Everyone brings something to the feast. 14 of us this time. Cheers.
Actually I think many people vote without thinking at all.
Ralph Deeds says:
15 months ago
Very true. I know a lot of people who are against Obama for similar reasons. Forty-five years later there's still a lot of racial prejudice around. The clue to their attitude is that they rarely cite positive reasons why they are supporting John McCain. Instead they say negative things about Obama or they say "they aren't sure about his background, who financed his education and travel, whether he's reall not a Muslim, etc. It's apparent they are grasping for excuses why they are not voting for Obama.