MY GOD VS BIBLE GOD
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I realize some Bible followers will want to "judge me" for my "individual" beliefs, but that's alright. I do not judge. Every "individual" is entitled to their "individual" belief.
In my conscious, I have an "individual" idea of God. My God does not come from the bible. My God does not come from "another's" word. My God comes from individual belief and logic.
The Bibles God shows favoritism, Mine shows none.
My God uses logic, The Bibles God uses insanity.
The bibles God created the universe with words, Mine only needed a vision.
The bibles God uses intervention, Mine does not intervene.
The bibles God demands followers, Mine demands individualism.
The bibles God has limitations, Mine has none.
The bibles God is known, Mine will never be known.
The bibles God is a followers God, My God is an individuals God.
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Comments
Your God goes back well over two thousand years. The Athenians called "it" the Unknown God. St. Paul gave a nice talk about it to them in Athens on Mars Hill.
I praise you for having such strong individuality and strong belief.
Hello Nancy, Thank You for reading / commenting. Much Appreciated.
Hello James, Thanks for reading/commenting.
"Your God goes back well over two thousand years. The Athenians called "it" the Unknown God. St. Paul gave a nice talk about it to them in Athens on Mars Hill. "
Please Explain, Thank You.
Hello shame, thank you for reading.
I appreciate the support.
Marinealways24, very thoughtful hub. In answer to your question, James was referring to Acts 17:23. I think it would be worthwhile to simply paste what it says if I may, the Bible does a better job of explaining what Paul says:
17:22 - 30 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
There is more of course that is worth reading around these passages, but I think these verses directly relate to your question and the hub.
Hello Alex, Thank You for reading and commenting.
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"
Please explain the "overall" point of this passage. I want to be clear on it's meaning before I comment. Is Paul saying that it's ignorant to believe in another God that the bibles God?
Thank You
Acts 17:22-31 - So Paul got to his feet in the middle of their council (the "Areopagus" where the philosophers of Athens could meet to discuss new ideas), and began, "Gentlemen of Athens, my own eyes tell me that you are in all respects an extremely religious people (... Paul uses the philosopher's own debating style). For as I made my way here and looked at your shrines I noticed one altar (one of a number in Athens) on which were inscribed the words, TO GOD THE UNKNOWN. It is this God whom you are worshipping in ignorance that I am here to proclaim to you! God who made the world and all that is in it, being Lord of both Heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by human hands, nor is he ministered to by human hands, as though he had need of anything - seeing that he is the one who gives to all men life and breath and everything else. From one forefather (Adam) he has created every race of men to live over the face of the whole earth. He has determined the times of their existence and the limits of their habitation, so that they might search for God, in the hope that they might feel for him and find him - yes, even though he is not far from any one of us. Indeed, it is in him that we live and move and have our being. Some of your own poets (... Aratus, Cleanthes and Epimenides speaking about the god Zeus) have endorsed this in the words, 'For we are indeed his children'. If then we are the children of God, we ought not to imagine God in terms of gold or silver or stone, contrived by human art or imagination. Now while it is true that God has overlooked the days of ignorance he now commands all men everywhere to repent (because of the gift of his son Jesus). For he has fixed a day on which he will judge the whole world in justice by the standard of a man whom he has appointed. That this is so he has guaranteed to all men by raising this man (Jesus) from the dead."
John 17:3, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
No other God can give you salvation. You must find and worship the true God. Yes you will be resurrection, which is given to all men through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, but life eternal, which is life in the presence of God, is not given freely to every man, but must be earned by righteousness and faith.
Keep on Hubbing!
Marine, yes, but I think not in the connotation you might be receiving it. It is more meant to signify that those people did not know, it wasn't an insult. And that's what I believe the passage is trying to convey - that people, (the people of Athens in particular), were recognizing God's presence and seeking to have a relationship with that god, but doing so in their own way, because they didn't have knowledge of the Bible's God. But Paul recognized that they were seeking God by all the ways they understood God's existence and sought to give them that knowledge.
James posted the same verses using a more modern translation, that might make it less obscure, (I use the old King James). In any case, just like you, the people Paul preached to were also seeking a loving God. The Jewish Christian God and your God are very similar in my eyes. Yes, I am a follower, but I can tell you that with God, I am more an individual than I ever could have been without him. God has intervened, and continues to intervene in our lives, but he does let us make our own decisions, such as to do good or evil. You are right, the Christian God shows favoritism, but his love for each of us is boundless, and he wants each of us to get the full power of his gifts and blessings just as much as those he favored in the Bible, it's a matter of reaching. I can go on, but I do not want to preach.
Personally, I appreciate that you separate your definition of God from the Christian God, or any other God. I always feel like someone who calls themselves a Christian but refuses to accept God's way, is trying to fool me. In this case, your understanding of God seems closer to a traditional God. Hope that helps.
Hello Eovery, Thank You for reading/commenting.
Yes you will be resurrection, which is given to all men through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, but life eternal, which is life in the presence of God, is not given freely to every man, but must be earned by righteousness and faith.
I have faith in my individual belief, not the bible. I will live and do good until my end. If I do not go to a "better" place when my end has come, so be it. The fear of death will not make me believe something that defies my personal logic. If God wanted me to believe the bible as his word, He should have made it logical to all minds, not just the follower mind. I refuse to force myself to believe something out of fear. Thank You
Hello Mark, Thank You for explaining.
" It is more meant to signify that those people did not know, it wasn't an insult. "
If someone told me that I don't know my individual ideas, I would probably look at that as an insult. What is the difference between Paul and David Koresh?
Hi Marine, I don't know much about Koresh except that he was a nut job that completely twisted the words of the Bible. Paul used the verses of the Bible in context. I couldn't even begin to answer that question really, instead I have to politely ask, do you see similarities between these two people?
I see your point about being insulted, but I think it was done in the spirit of clarification for the poeple of Athens. I don't think Paul would have said that unless he saw what he saw - that the people he preached to, were looking for God by the way they understood him, merely lacking the fundamental understanding given to us by the Bible.
My first real experience with the Bible was to feel insulted when my friend opened it up to help me with depression and suicidal thoughts many years ago, but I decided that it was worth looking into and gave the Bible a chance.
You and I both (probably) know how people can sour our perceptions of religion :-) But it sounds like you gave the Bible a chance already.
Hello Mark, I do not mean it as an insult to your belief for me to compare the 2. I do know that both were "leaders" who had "followers". Both said they "spoke" to God.
I ask this question to anyone that claims individualism. Is it possible to be an individual if you are in a group of the same belief? If you are in a group of a "shared" belief, this is contradiction to individualism.
"You and I both (probably) know how people can sour our perceptions of religion"
I try not to judge my belief on how others act, but from what I have read. If God wanted me to believe the bible, he shouldn't have given me logic. If God wanted me to follow, he wouldn't have given me individualism.
I ask you this, if someone does not believe the bible, do you think they should force belief?
Thank You, I appreciate your comments and perspectives.
You couldn´t have interested me more about the subject. Indeed, I believe the God of this new age is an individual God calling each one to find oneself, I´ve actually found lots of people who think similarly. In my opinion this is because we finally woke up to higher level of counsiousness and therefore the old God (by this I refer to established churches and their millennia laws) is not up to date I dare say. As Humans evolve they become more and more aware of their true nature and learn to accept each other as the self. And our ideas of God change along ourselves.
I really admire your point of veiw, very strong and reinforced by experience.
Hello Sesshy, I appreciate you reading. You have a great point and excellent perspective.
"In my opinion this is because we finally woke up to higher level of counsiousness"
Excellent point. Yet, only "some" of us ever wake up. Some can live an entire life in another mind. It took me 30 years to find mine. As long as we think we know something, we will continue to learn nothing.
Waking up involves becoming awar of traps of culture and habit and other people's expectations.
And that can be painful. Trust me on that
Hello Alex, Thank You for reading.
"Waking up involves becoming awar of traps of culture and habit and other people's expectations"
On the contrary, the waking up I am talking about is enlightenment. When an "individual" has discovered true individualism, they cannot be "trapped". A true individual will maintain individual belief, even when tested by society and the majority.
Thank You
My opinion is that belief should definitely not be forced. Swaying and convincing is okay, as long as it is done in the right spirit, (meaning to try and convince because you care about the other person), but definitely not force it! The God of the Bible wants us to make the decision to follow or not on our own, (the Inquisition would be an example of over the top zealousness - nothing a real Christian would condone).
I wasn't insulted, and I'm glad you clarified about the two leaders. As with anything, the issue is deeper than what's on the surface.
Although I consider myself very individualistic, you are right to say religious people are followers, and ultimately I am a follower, but I consider the following of God to be more important than my individualism :-)
Hello Mark, Your comments are much appreciated. I value your perspective.
"I am a follower, but I consider the following of God to be more important than my individualism"
True Individualism = Ultimate Freedom. Did God not create every man an individual with individual freedoms?
When you say you are a follower of God, we may have this in common since I do believe in a God. I just don't believe anothers idea of God, however I value their perspective to determine true logic.
I believe God's ultimate freedom of man is true individualism. I think it's alright to follow God in your conscious of doing "good". Saying this, the conscious does not require a book to follow.
Waking up envolves rather than recognizing the traps, is knowing they´re there, falling into them and accepting the Shadow as an inseparable part of ourselves. Why would I hate my shadow? Waking up can be painful when you´re too attached to what you had before, and we are indeed for is the only thing we´ve known until now. Even if its true that just some of us get to "wake up", I believe the collective uncounsiousness is rising to the surface lately, so its kinda easier to realize where you´re standing. We are trully free when trascend the idea of following God and realize God or counsiousness was always there.... dunno Im a teenager still so I guess I still have a lot to go through.
It's neat we can have a back and forth about this subject, I'm grateful for the opportunity to talk about my beliefs, but also to get a unique perspective from you. I think this is where we hit a philosophical wall. If you believed in a world of permanent absolutes, and you knew that on one end is the greatest joy and love and satisfaction and (yes) freedom forever and on the other side was permanent unhappiness, pain and prison, what would you choose? For me, this makes the need for complete freedom a null issue.
If I wasn't a Christian, I would want to be like Q from Star Trek The Next Generation, (that was an awesome show). Flick from one end of the universe to the other in an instant. Be anything, do anything.
Some people still have a conscience, but I feel that people behave much worse than even 10 years ago, and there has been an absence of religion that has steadily grown for much longer than that. People will always do wrong, but I think the lack of God, (a Bible God), contributes to the lack of moral character.
Yeah discussions about beliefs are allways fun, you get to understand people in many diferent ways.
"People will always do wrong, but I think the lack of God, (a Bible God), contributes to the lack of moral character."
It really depends on your point of veiw... the so called moral that modern society dictates us is beauty´s slave, and it also depends on what you consider beautiful. Individualistic people will have their own moral codes and depending on their own situation their moral will have more or less similarity with conventional moral codes. Take pagans for example; even if they lack a bible God they´re really disciplined on their moral values, of course conditioned by each one´s situation, but at the very bottom humans think up the same values, religious beliefs aside.
Hello Alex, "We are trully free when trascend the idea of following God and realize God or counsiousness was always there.... dunno Im a teenager still so I guess I still have a lot to go through." Everyones perspective is important, no matter age. You are very wise beyond your age. You are smarter than most adults I have ever spoken to. You are also strong willed which is rare. If I can give you any advice in life, always maintain individuality and humbleness. It was very humble of you saying "dunno Im a teenager still so I guess I still have a lot to go through." If you maintain this attitude, you will always learn. You know more than you think you do. Just don't let youself know that. Always understand that you only know less than what you will know.
Hello Mark,
"I'm grateful for the opportunity to talk about my beliefs, but also to get a unique perspective from you"
I am grateful as well.
"People will always do wrong, but I think the lack of God, (a Bible God), contributes to the lack of moral character."
Mark, I have to agree to disagree. I believe this is absolutely wrong. You are saying that you have better morals than the non-believer of the bible. This is favoritism if not judgement. Why do you think someone has to have a bible to learn morals?
Thank You
There is no reason that judging a person's values or actions means that we can't love them also. Jesus attacked sin all the time, but he did it with love for the people he was preaching to. Modern Christians should follow suit because we often ignore the love part.
Yes, our values are different, and I recognize that a lot of people like you and Sesshyfreakalex (and Pagans and Muslims) have similar moral values to mine without a Bible.
It comes down to faith. I know that I am not perfect, none of us is. I believe that God is real and perfect, and if God is real, that he would not leave us without a guide or set of instructions which he would keep pure down through the ages.
You sound like a good person, but there are so many criminals and murderers and evil dictators out there, I wouldn't trust human morality to be the final measuring stick for good morality.
Hello Mark, Thank You for responding.
"There is no reason that judging a person's values or actions means that we can't love them also" I thought the bible teaches it is not mans right to judge another man.
"and if God is real, that he would not leave us without a guide or set of instructions which he would keep pure down through the ages."
This may be the very reason we disagree. I do not believe God would send down a guide. This would "guide people how to live". Guiding people on how to live contradicts free will.
"set of instructions which he would keep pure down through the ages."
I do not believe anything in the bible has been kept pure. I believe it has been constantly altered to fit religious agendas. If altered cannot be verifiable in my belief.
"but there are so many criminals and murderers and evil dictators out there"
Who would you trust more, me or a preacher?
BTW, the preacher has just been convicted of 5 sexual assault cases on children. The "guide" did not work for him. I have a clean record with a logical mind. Good luck with the preacher.
It is often a misconception that Christians are not supposed to judge, and instead accept everyone no matter how bad they are. Christians are supposed to love everyone, but that does not mean to accept their sins. The verse you are referring to is Matthew 7:1-5
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Here are some more verses about judgment:
John 7:24. Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (This one warns against favoritism or letting someone's false appearance get in the way of judging their character).
Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
You'll notice the tone in the first and famous set of verses is not to be a hypocrite. The other two make it clear Christians must differentiate between godliness and the world, but it must be done as peacefully and lovingly as possible. In other words, it instructs me not to look for faults in others, not to be negative. But it also warns against allowing people with evil intent to pollute my walk with Christ, (gossips, liars, worldly people who try to lead me into doing things that are not Godly, etcetera). Even Jesus called the Pharisees rotten on the inside to their faces. That's not very nice is it? In fact, that's judgmental. We know though, that Jesus loved them and wanted them to accept his gift of life.
About free will. Yes, we do make a choice to follow God or not to. But God has given you and me the freedom to make that choice. If you believed in the Bible God, then you would also know that the Devil would be pushing and pulling at you to go the wrong way, while God gives you all that you need to come to him on your own accord. I think I understand how that puts a damper on your vision of free will since in my belief, every person has only one of two choices, and that is where we differ of course. I think you are seeking total ultimate freedom?
You asked me who I would trust more, and if I didn't know either person, I would naturally say neither. I totally agree there are wolves in sheep's clothing, but that preacher you mentioned was not following the Bible. Even if he is a Christian, he should have resigned from his position when he realized what kind of man he is, and dealt with his problems. The Bible says that ministry leaders need to have their own house in order before they can work in the ministry. The main thing is that people are fallible, people will always at some point let you down. But I hang on to God during those times when I feel abandoned or offended or otherwise hurt. God never changes, people do.
Of course we disagree, Your style of belief over religious belief was the point of your article, and I totally respect that. I saw some questions that arose and felt compelled to answer them as best as I could, but I had no desire to butt heads. I can come up with many more verses that would be helpful, but not necessary.
When a person is seeking, then they are open to the truth, (whatever it may be). When I am looking for an answer to some question, I often find it when I ask honest questions of myself or others. It seems like you might be doing that also, is your belief being strengthened by all this? I hope that I have helped to clarify, not throw up more smoke and noise.
Hello Mark, Thanks for responding. When I quoted you on this: " "People will always do wrong, but I think the lack of God, (a Bible God), contributes to the lack of moral character.""
I am simply making the point to not judge one person over the other based on belief. I was just using the preacher as an example of "titles". No one title or belief should overpower the other. This is true individual freedom.
"It seems like you might be doing that also, is your belief being strengthened by all this?"
Absolutely. I find my individual belief through logic found through perspectives and debate. True logic will not be found without true debate.
Thank You
Oh, I see. I misunderstood you. I judge morals yes, but I won't say that I am better than someone else because I know my own failings. This is why I do not believe a preacher is better than anyone else. Although I believe that the Bible is wonderful, thinking that a title and a religion automatically makes a person better is wrong.
I love your statement, "True logic will not be found without true debate." I do learn from conversing with people whose viewpoints I don't totally agree with, most people have some wisdom to share.
Thanks for making me think harder about my own belief, it has been enlightening.
Hello Mark,
"I won't say that I am better than someone else because I know my own failings."
Thank You, Very humble statement.
"Although I believe that the Bible is wonderful, thinking that a title and a religion automatically makes a person better is wrong."
Excellent words Mark, Thank You for your perspectives as well. Much appreciated.
Many have said much already so I will make this brief.
If your god can be understood by you, then it is a very, very, very tiny little god at best. Any god who is the individuals idea is a limited little god and powerless and it will fit into a box too.
Your claims about GOD ALL-MIGHTY only show your lack of understanding. But this is true of anyone who tries to "figure out" THE TRUE GOD who cannot even begin to be comprehended by finite minds that fit in a thimble...
HIS ways are past finding out, HIS wisdom is beyond all grasp and enough words cannot be said while "attempting" to describe HIM at all. Even The Bible is not complete in it's defining GOD...it cannot be done, but it does make a pretty wonderful presentation of HIM who is indescribable from our perspectives.
The difference between an illusion and perception is often hard to SEE. The TRUTH IS A PERSON.
Your thoughts, feelings, emotions, opinions, education, the way it’s always been done, the majority vote and even the facts you have embraced. THE TRUTH STANDS ALONE and is not changed by any of the above; wisdom and understanding dwell in a secret place.
OH yes, if in fact you are a soldier in the U.S.M.C.
Semper Fidelis!!!
I will remind you that THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE IS KNOWN AS "THE LORD GOD OF ARMIES"...THE ULITIMATE WARRIOR OF WARRIORS!!!
...from your mouth to God's ears. ;)
"If your god can be understood by you, then it is a very, very, very tiny little god at best. Any god who is the individuals idea is a limited little god and powerless and it will fit into a box too."
Individualism has no boundaries unlike religion.
"Even The Bible is not complete in it's defining GOD...it cannot be done, but it does make a pretty wonderful presentation of HIM who is indescribable from our perspectives"
I think we read a different bible, the one I read shows God as a serial killer.
"The difference between an illusion and perception is often hard to SEE. The TRUTH IS A PERSON"
You say the truth is a person, wrong. The truth is me, not a random person or religion.
Thanks for reading/commenting.
Thanks for reading Davina, it's rare that anyone reads this one. lol
Jesus said,"The kingdom of heaven is within you, if you would have it." God is the absolute power of spirit. The bible is filled with carnal confusion. If you look for what God actually said in the bible...you will find a very, very small percentage. If you sort through the pagan and religious self serving influences....God is there....much like you described your God.
"Individualism has no boundaries unlike religion."
Religion does have boundaries, I said nothing about religion!!!...I am talking about GOD ALL-MIGHTY who has no boundaries. And if you have no boundaries as you say, then duplicate the works of GOD. Just pick any 3.
"I think we read a different bible, the one I read shows God as a serial killer."
Quite a charge, how do you back it up? Before you answer that, remember that people die in war and soldiers are not called serial killers, get that straight man. GOD makes no bones about it, HE is a GOD of war!!! That is, if you are at war with HIM, HE just says "bring it on!!!"
"You say the truth is a person, wrong. The truth is me, not a random person or religion."
You did not hear me, once again I am not talking religion or some randomness, THE TRUTH is a PERSON, HE has a name. Jesus or in Hebrew Yahshua and HE possesses all TRUTH. If you are the truth as you claim, then you know all truth right? You know everything right?
I must say I agree with Tom on this one. The kingdom of heaven is within you. I am really enjoying reading your posts Marinealways24. You find a special place in my heart because of the Marine Corp. I would love you anyway because you are one of Gods children even if you don't know it. I don't know when you read the bible but I can tell how you read it. It is a very special book. It is the only living and changing book that I have found on this earth. When it is read with an open heart ,and the spirit of God along .it will change your life. When it is read like a history book it's life is cut off. There is more freedom joy and individualism to be found in Gods love than I could ever express. Faith and Belief are keys.
Individualism has no boundaries unlike religion
religion is a box relationship with Jesus is the door to no boundaries
I think we read a different Bible the one I read shows God as a serial killer.
carnal confusion and scriptural misunderstanding
You say the truth is a person, wrong the truth is me, not a random person or religion.
I will not argue religion or my savior. but I give you credit for your belief. if you mean it when you say the truth is me. Truth does not change, it does not sway, it is strong and everlasting, It takes a lot of guts to claim to be truth. I can honestly say my truth is a loving everlasting God.
My prayers are with you Marinealways24. Thank you for your service to our great country. I do not judge you but will keep you close in my thoughts. Keep seeking and you will find your answers.
The truth is above us all and resides in a Person named Jesus.
He can impart truth to you though, but you are not truth.
That is truth to you, not to me. Your truth is no more than mine, mine is no more than yours. As you say I am not truth, I say you are not truth. It will go in circles.
I am not saying "I am truth"....THE TRUTH SIR, IS JESUS THE MESSIAH. this is not my truth, it is THE TRUTH, big difference.
You never answered the question.
If you are the truth, do you know all things?
Do you know all truth?
Because if you were the truth, you would know.
Jesus is your truth not everyones truth. I see you pretty arrogant to tell someone to believe something as truth because you believe it as truth. Again, this is your truth, not everyone's truth.
"If you are the truth, do you know all things?
Do you know all truth?"
Apparently you know all things to tell someone what to believe as truth. I understand that I know nothing. You are the one that has all the answers to your religious creations. I have no idea of our creator while you assume to know.
I am my truth, I don't claim to be everyones truth.
Just a thought, You two are going around and around because you define Truth differently. Marinealways24 you seem to think truth is what you believe. Truth is defined as a verified or indisputable fact, actuality,or actual existence. It does not matter if someone believes or not, the Fact or Truth is unchangeable.
You are both Truth because you both exist. I had to rethink that one, earlier I said it took alot of guts to say you were truth, but we do all exist, so that makes us truth in our own way. However Jesus is "all Truth" the son of God the creator. Gravity is gravity, if you jump off a tall building you will fall. {Please take my serrious and don't say "not if I have a chute" You know what I mean.} Jesus is Jesus and whether one believes that or not it still remains Truth. I understand that religious people are some of Gods most hurtful people. Many times doing much more damage than good. Jesus is about Love and Truth not about being dammed to Hell. Search with your heart and try and forgive those who have told you these lies. God bless you.
If a Marine had an "individualistic" attitude, they would all be at risk. The truth is, that he is part of a whole.
Hello sandj, "Marinealways24 you seem to think truth is what you believe. Truth is defined as a verified or indisputable fact, actuality,or actual existence."
My truth is verified by fact, actuality, and my existance. My truth is also based on logic, not emotions.
quietnessandtrust: If a Marine had an "individualistic" attitude, they would all be at risk. The truth is, that he is part of a whole"
This is a true statement, yet I don't see the point of the statement. Are you saying belief should be like the marines, everyone on the same team of thought? I highly disagree. Freedom is Individuality, not conforming to 1.
I have been where you are marine24. Your truth is your existance. Jesus is Truth, also in existance. You not believing does not make that less of a fact. It is only a fact that you do not know yet.
"Jesus is Truth, also in existance. You not believing does not make that less of a fact. It is only a fact that you do not know yet."
Quite the opposite in my belief. I believe you are the one that doesn't know truth. I do not believe in prophets.
I do believe there are prophets. However Jesus was not a prophet, He is the son of God. Always has been always will be no matter who believes it. I am not arguing your right to think what ever you wish. Man once thought the world was flat, but that does not alter the truth that it is round.
sandj says:
"Jesus was not a prophet"
Sorry sir, this person lacks knowledge on this fact, He is called that very thing more than once.
I have no problem calling my fellow believers on the carpet when they are mistaken, please forgive them.
One has to tell the truth.
Shalom
***quietnessandtrust***said this:
"If a Marine had an "individualistic" attitude, they would all be at risk. The truth is, that he is part of a whole"
*The Marine*(and thank you for serving sir) says:
"This is a true statement, yet I don't see the point of the statement. Are you saying belief should be like the marines, everyone on the same team of thought? I highly disagree. Freedom is Individuality, not conforming to 1."
***Q&T says: That's right sir, “the truth (Marines) has one team of thought.” and that team of thought is “to know the truth about the enemy and about they're role in killing him and setting his captives free to be individuals under true and everlasting freedom!!!”
You are correct in saying “freedom is individuality”, and at least you agree with me on one thing. And also that you do not “SEE THE POINT” and that is because you are not walking point man in the squad. (uncle volunteered to do it all the time in Vietnam and came back too) so you cannot see what the POINT MAN sees at all, THE POINT MAN IS MESSIAH. THE TRUTH, not “the truth” for me, not for you, not for anyone. HIS TRUTH STANDS ALONE and is not shaken by you or me sir.
Freedom gives you the right to be an individual and yet if called to arms, you give up that right and you know it because you signed a document saying so, if they still make you sign it that is. You give up that “right” in order to serve a higher truth, one that caused you to think outside of your tiny minded individuality. The truth was we area at war and our country as a whole was the bigger truth than you sir. Roger that? Comes a time when we do conform to a “oneness.”
Well Marine, you just stepped on a wooden mine, the kind that cannot be detected. You see sir, you are not thinking like a Marine, you are thinking like an individual and it just got you killed and you buddies standing near you. Truth could have detected the wooded mine. A Marine knows that at any given time he has but just part of the whole truth in any given operation, only the top Commander giving the orders knows about the whole operation, the individual Marine has only what he needs to know to do his duty and afterwards he will receive more of the whole truth about the operation, the Lt. does not tell him everything all at once and I am sure you learned this in basic, especially when you started asking “but why” after being given orders from a drill Sgt. to go march up Mt. Motherf@cker did you not? LOL. You realized real fast that the commander had what you needed to make you a Marine...HE HAD THE WHOLE TRUTH on that operation. If you needed any co called convincing of this FACT, you would find yourself doing plenty of push ups, roger? Yeah, copy that Sgt.
You see, I have been trying to reason with you in a logical manner as I would with a soldier and am finding that soldiers that think like you get others killed in a fire fight, because they think like an individual and given the chance, they cut and run because they habitually think of “ME FIRST.”
If the military has a Commander and Chief, then so does the universe no doubt, men only mimic what GOD has placed in order from the beginning.
*The Marine says
"My truth is also based on logic, not emotions."
***Q&T says: emotions have nothing to do with truth, I agree, logic is the truth and here is why sir.
Note: "A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos (logic) around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe." You like logic? Well there is the first use of the word, “DIVINE REASONING OR PLAN, coordinating the changing universe.
Can you do that with all of your small amount of logic? Me thinks not Marine, roger that?
John 1:1
“In the beginning the Word (LOGOS in Greek) already existed. He was with God, and He was God.”
So there you go, you want logic, He possesses all logic because HE IS ALL LOGIC!!!
If you cannot understand this, then you lack the ability to reason logically Marine. :-)
Shalom
P.S. If you are not to proud to do this, then please do. Before you go to sleep tonight just say this.
“Truth, if I am wrong, please show me and I will admit it in public”...then say it when you arise. Do it for a week and find out if He speaks to you sir, but you have to be honest Marine. Take care.
Sandj, "Man once thought the world was flat, but that does not alter the truth that it is round."
Man also once thought we were magically put here. Then man discovered evolution. Some do not allow themselves to evolve.
Q&T, I am not in the Marines anymore. I did my 4 years and got out.
"And also that you do not “SEE THE POINT” and that is because you are not walking point man in the squad. (uncle volunteered to do it all the time in Vietnam and came back too) so you cannot see what the POINT MAN sees at all,"
With all due respect, you are speaking as the point man from your uncles perspective while never being there. In a "war" situation going through the woods, you would trust the point man. The point men are also picked as the ones that get shot first most of the time. If the point man was incompetent and missed seeing the enemy, would you still trust them? I wouldn't. I do not have blind faith. I must see to believe.
"You see sir, you are not thinking like a Marine, you are thinking like an individual and it just got you killed and you buddies standing near you"
I'm not a Marine anymore. I am an "individual". While in the Marines, yes you must operate as one.
"You realized real fast that the commander had what you needed to make you a Marine...HE HAD THE WHOLE TRUTH on that operation. If you needed any co called convincing of this FACT, you would find yourself doing plenty of push ups, roger?"
True, you must follow orders "while" in the Marines of higher ranked Marines. There is no debate on orders. At the same time, you are putting your life in often incompetent officers hands who are fresh out of college. I trust my life in my hands, not officers. The officers would often be misinformed by their higher ranking officers. The government runs the military. The government is a cluster fu@k. Put 2 and 2 together.
"Note: "A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos (logic) around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe." You like logic? Well there is the first use of the word, “DIVINE REASONING OR PLAN, coordinating the changing universe.
Can you do that with all of your small amount of logic? Me thinks not Marine, roger that?"
No one can. No one knows the divine reason we are created. Religious only assume. Religion and the bible are mans control of man.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Bible-Conspiracy-Theory
I cover my idea of why I believe the bible and religion were created.
OK>>>OK you say religion...I say relationship...
my relationship with THE TRUTH is above things to me.
Religion can be false, THE TRUTH cannot be false.
Shalom
"my relationship with THE TRUTH is above things to me.
"Religion can be false, THE TRUTH cannot be false"
Agreed. Saying that every individual has a different idea of truth, how and why would you expect another individual to believe your idea of truth?
That's just it sir, it is NOT "my idea" at all. THE TRUTH is not an "idea"...HE IS THE GREAT I AM...HE knows ALL LOGIC as well, nothing escapes HIS understanding at all.
You say:
"how and why would you expect another individual to believe your idea of truth?"
If 5 Marines are in a situation and they are all of the same rank, no officers around, no radio, no back up, and they all put they're own "individual ideas" on the table. Only one will be the real deal truth that everyone can agree on and move out with. That is the one in the circle "WITH MORE OF THE TRUTH"...more than his fellow Marines, even though they all had some truth to add, that one had a bit more than the others. So that is how I can answer you on "how and why would you expect another individual to believe your idea of truth?"
I like talking with you sir and I believe in time you will come to know more of the truth until one day you will know THE PERSON who IS THE TRUTH...don't stop until you find HIM.
You say:
"No one can. No one knows the divine reason we are created."
Yes we do know, THE ONE who created us told us why.
Shalom my friend!!!
P.S. I never said I have not been to war, you did.
I have been in the military for 30 years sir.
"If 5 Marines are in a situation and they are all of the same rank, no officers around, no radio, no back up, and they all put they're own "individual ideas" on the table. Only one will be the real deal truth that everyone can agree on and move out with. That is the one in the circle "WITH MORE OF THE TRUTH"...more than his fellow Marines, even though they all had some truth to add, that one had a bit more than the others. So that is how I can answer you on "how and why would you expect another individual to believe your idea of truth?"
Would you look at the one with the answers as God? I wouldn't. What if the one that gets understood as truth is wrong by all the Marines you used in your example. That truth that was voted on just got all of them killed. Again, that is a chance that would have to be taken. Theres not much logic in war or religion. They have a lot in common with religion usually leading to war. I'm just making the point that just because something is accepted by the majority doesn't mean it's the right decision. In the situation you used, there would be majority truth if a decision was debated on leading to the 1 individuals truth. So it would actually be the majority that led to the individual truth. What makes Jesus your truth as God?
Thanks for serving your time.
You said
"Would you look at the one with the answers as God? I wouldn't."
Come now, you know I was using an example to make a point, something you can relate to. You are dodging it too.
GOD does not need a majority and neither did the soldier in the example, he had the truth and in the story all were saved by following his lead. Like I said, nobody knew the truth but one. In this case THE TRUTH is GOD. Not me, not you.
It seems like you are afraid to ask HIM to show you truth.
People who are afraid, always question the commander.
Shalom
How do you know God is a him? People who are followers never question the commander. Individuals question everything.
This certainly sounds like an interesting 'religion' i thought the bit, "The bible's God has limitations" was strange, and almost funny. I am not sure where you get that from.
It seems that you are questioning things, which is good, you should figure out things for yourself, and i encourage you to do that and ask God to truly give you the answers you are looking for. I hope and pray that you will find out more about who God is.
Hello internpete, Thank You for reading.
An individual belief can't be a religion. Nice try. The biblical god is limited by "mans assumptions". My idea of God or Gods is "unlimited" because it is unknown. The God or Gods of my limited knowledge thinks the bible is disrespectful and controlling. Also a contradiction of free will.
The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the Power of God. ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 )
The Lord hates that anyone should perish. He never intended for it to be that way, but it does happen. If you cannot bring yourself to opening up the Bible and ask God to open your heart and your eyes, then Hell will have itself another soul.
Thanks for reading Sciantel. Your God showed me truth that the book is mans word. Is it my fault your God favored my mind over yours to allow me to see truth? You are claiming I could go to hell for not believing the bible as God. Ever thought about if you are going to hell for believing the bible as God?
Just read the Bible. Of all the so called religoius books out there, the Bible is not written of Man, it was divinely given to man from God and 100 percent accurate on its prophecies too. God is trying to show you the truth my friend,but it is Satan that is lying to you cause he wants your soul! Jesus wants your soul too, to belong to Him but He won't force you. We all were given a free will. Satan does not favor you.It is him who is deceiving you. Do not listen to his lies. I know Jesus and I know I am redeemed. I know that I know that I know, but you, you have nothing but uncertainty. You have no faith or peace in your life. Jesus gives to us who are saved a peace that the world does not know. I will tell you this. I'm glad God favored all of Mankind enough to send His a Son to die for us but if you refuse to accept His free gift then it is that sin that can't be forgiven and it will be you and only you who sends you to hell, not God. He never has sent one soul there. We do that all on our own. Good luck. I hope in the end, when your life is over I will see a smiling face in heaven saying, I'm so glad I finally came around. Shalom!
I hold myself accountable for my actions in life, I do not cower and look to another "Jesus" to pay for my mistakes. There is more honor in paying for my own mistakes if there is a price to pay.
I do not sacrifice my individualism to be the follower of a deceitful religion or bible. Afterall, your God gave me individualism, our greatest freedom. My individual mind see's truth, yours see's faith. If a claimed prophet came and knocked on your door sayin he was a prophet of God, would you believe him? Whats the difference in believing the bible?
To quote you:
"There is more honor in paying for my own mistakes if there is a price to pay."
Ah yes, but their is one thing that YOU CANNOT pay for.
Pay all the rest, be accountable for them yes, but one price is to HIGH for you to pay. To pay this price, one must be PERFECT!!!
Shalom
Something hard for a Marine to understand is that something is impossible for him to do.
I understand, it comes with the training.
lol, What do you think it is that is hard for me to do? Again, I have already said that I am no longer in the Marines.
Nancy's Niche says:
5 months ago
Very nice hub and nice entrance into the article....