talented_ink  says:
16 months ago

Wow, marisuewrites. I don't think I've read one long well-written dismantling of one person rant like this before. lol When I first heard about McCain's decision for running mate, I immediately felt he was trying to get Clinton's old supporters and that he thought the entire American population was full of dumbasses(pardon my French). Leaving out Palin's pregnant daughter, her 22 year old that's in Iraq(Go America go!), her 4 month old with down's syndrome, and what do you have left? An inexperienced, gun toting, pseudo-politician, former beauty queen. I actually saw someone list Palin's looks as a reason for her to be VP. Yes, when my nation is in turmoil, I don't want the ugly, unpopular chick with the phD from Harvard making any decisions. Give me the hot hockey mom any day!. LOL I'm done...just tell me Ashton Kutcher is about to tell me I'm being punk'd.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi sixtyorso, you've been gone! LOL yes, I will have to add that multi talented woman's hunting experiences and gun lobbying - she might be the one to send hunting Bin Laden since our own President Bush says he hardly thinks about him anymore. Which proves that he was only after Saddam for threatening his daddy -- he wanted his oil, he got it, "Bin Laden, Who?" -- What a joke our president has become. He knows it, too. His tone of voice has dropped to monotone, he knows how the world and our country regards him.

We don't need Annie Oakley-get-your-gun in the White House. sheeesh!

Alicia Johnson  says:
16 months ago

Thank you so very much for your thoughtful comments! This is all very concerning. What about this woman really appeals to women? 1. She is willing to leave her special needs infant to obvious the care of someone else, while she "cares" for the United States! 2. She is being investigated in a scandal regarding her brother-in-law, which demonstrates her lack of judgement when it comes to personal issues. 3. Her teenage daughter is pregnant...when I became pregnant at age 17, I needed my mother more then I need to breath, and she's going to leave her family, her other three children and her husband at this critical time! This woman is some big issues...she can't let this Country anywhere! If McCain new all these things before he chose her...then my God, what kind of leader will he make. His decision was so selfish, he did not care on iota about her or her family; all he was thinking about was winning at any cost....Please, Please, Please America open your eyes before it is to late for us ALL!

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi Alicia! I agree, we are in a tub of trouble, but I think she'll be arrested probably soon, so her 15 min of fame is going to be over. Insane McCain...rides again!

listenup  says:
16 months ago

I agree with all of the above. When I head about McSane's decision I was blown away. What is he thinking? Of course, we all know that he really doesn't think. He's too old and too bitter to run this country, so what does he do? Put a woman in office who doesn't know what the f--- she's doing. I have a journalism degree, I have grown kids..do you think I should run for Vice President? He's just like Bush, lost his mental facilities somewhere along the way. I say between Bush's possum face and McSane's ignorance, we're all screwed if, which is unlikely, he should get elected. If that happens, I'm not a citizen anymore. Good hub

SusanBonfiglio  says:
16 months ago

My concern is that we have smart people in government. Something we have lost for the past 8 years. We have not been focused on thoughtful ways to move this country forward. We have been focused on division politics based on helping the rich and corporations in this country. Obama is an Ivy League educated (just finished paying off his student loans kind of guy). McCain was a C student at best when he went to school. However, Obama doesn't do sound bytes. He gives thoughtful, nuanced anwers. McCain gives the shoot from the hip black/white response. That is scary...We just had 8 years of this kind of cowboy diplomacy.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss her. Look how many times in the past people in this country have voted against their economic self interest. As if the Republican party ever cared about the middle class or the poor.

I for one am looking forward to having a thoughtful President, someone who is very measured in his response and in good self control. When you look at how disciplined Obama's campaign has been vs. John McCains, it is a glimpse into their management style.

While I understand the points you make about the daughter and I agree with you, I believe the children of candidates as well as their wives/husbands should be off limits.

Joe Biden has to be very careful when he debates Sarah Palin. The bar is set very low for her, in the same way the bar was set low for Candidate Bush in the 2000 election. If Biden comes off as too aggressive (remember Rick Lazio and Hillary Clinton, New York Senate race), he will be perceived as bullying her.

Underestimating the Republican ticket, no matter how ridiculous it is to you and me, is a big mistake.

SirDent  says:
16 months ago

Not to disagree with your hub but to clarify something from ym own thinking on things. Why would middle America want High class America running things for them?

Do you think it would be better for someone from our own class to reperesent us?

That is off my chest now. I have no idea what McCain was thinking when he appointed her to run for VP. Good job of writing, even if many might disagree with what was written.

Patty Inglish, MS  says:
16 months ago

I cannot imagine paying $500 for a pair of shoes.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi Susan! You're right, and what the Republicans can't hogwash us with, they will try to buy. I don't want to attack her child, but she needs to understand that morals and values are easier said than done. It's easy to preach it; to force others to live by it; but when it comes to "them" to live it, they want "understanding and privacy." Uh, huh. She can take her private butt back to Alaska and answer the charges that will soon be coming. I think Obama and Biden should continue their wisdom by letting others scream about this. =))

They can sit back - pop popcorn, and enjoy the show. It's their year if they don't mess it up!

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi SirDent; differences are always welcome on my hubs! I don't have to be the only one speaking; we all matter. =)) None of us truly like to see this kind of blunder. Yet, when one boasts about judgement all the time, it's a bit ironic when they mess up! She's got some skeletons, many have had them, but she's the current mistake.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi Sir Dent, I understand your feelings; but what I think you are saying is you want someone who understands what the common person needs. I believe Obama does, I don't think McCain ever did. I don't think that money keeps someone from understanding, it's more "what did they do with their money, how long have they had it, do they even know what it's like to be without it."

Now, it's hard for a rich person to understand, but not impossible. Rich people, in the original birth of our country, were few and far between. Now, there are more of them, and they do seem to grab the power. But, what does a "poor" person bring to the office? Often, now, they are uneducated, in high debt, and would have a harder time understanding the pressures, the technology, and the demands of the world.

I'd rather take my chances on getting the attention of one well off, and powerful enough to bring about change. Either way, we're kinda "screwed" in many ways. We need to be ever watchful. Specially when "they" pull the kinds of things McCain is now involved in doing....he just can't sell this gal...not to me.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

wow, story!  thanks for THIS contribution!!  More and More we have less and less to respect about McCain.  I think it was probably "You don't want Lieberman, then take this!!"  He shot himself in the foot, and I say let him bleed awhile.  He is definitely a hot head!!  We do NOT need a hot head in today's world.  Now, we've got 2, only one is a bit more bitter.  Him!  She was a hothead over her brother-in-law and that's why she used her power to try to get him fired. 

She'll be gone, soon.  I 'm  bettin' !

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

this hub got 671 views?? 616 from stumbleupon?? but its not on hot hubs?? weird, eh?

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

You make a good point shadesbreath...I prefer to watch and see what develops; even with an elected leader, they could freeze when they need to react...we never know...but I sure would like to have a fighting chance. She's beauty alright, or at least was, she needs to nix the bun, but what do I know.

I'm still freakin' out over her finger on the hot button...just the image. course, either way, even if it's a qualified person's finger on the button, we're just as dead. LOL

Shadesbreath  says:
16 months ago

I think the bun is hawt... gives her that sexy librarian look. Very nice, and a key qualifying factor in veep selection imo.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Well you know she could be the next Jackie, what am I thinking, all her stylish do's and all...All VP's will want to look like that; I hope Hillary is taking note....all this wasted time thinking it was her intelligence that mattered...Not that Hillary is the standard, but still I'm sure she's drooling...

my god 790 page views so far...700+ plus from stumbleupon

LOL

hot topic

t.keeley  says:
16 months ago

The fact that this woman doesn't even know what in hell the VP actually does, that she wants to increase the bureacracy...ugh, this is why I went third party...to think someone who was as decent as mcCain (given I never really liked him anyway) could go and pull a stunt like this...this has become a new version of American Idol.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi t.keeley  it is disappointing isn't it??  This proves to me that he thinks American's are stupid, especially us females, the weaker sex, you know.

And that's right, they sure can't say anything about Obama now...not in that area. LOL WHO was not thinking on this one...was it "hurry hurry, name someone??"

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

I'm afraid we'll all suffer living down and correcting what Bush did to us, not to mention to all those families who've served and fought this foolish war. He even said he didn't even think about Bin Lauden anymore.....it's sickening, and amazing..

laringo  says:
16 months ago

First of all I know there are enough folks out there that don't want Barack Obama as the next president and that's just enough to keep the doubt alive about who he is,what he is and a lot of other nonsense. He is a very impressive and intelligent person who reminds me alot of JFK...so why all the questions?.....I pretty much know the answer and the ignorant and closed minded people should get over this.We are one nation of people that should come together. I constantly hear "Barack Obama has no experience", yet when Sarah Palin comes along she is ready on day one if she had to step into the presidency with less than 2 years as governor. John Mc Cain met Sarah Palin one time face to face and picked her as his running mate. How easy is is for some......I'm done but could go on and on.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi Laringo, I agree and you are right on! It's ok if they are on the ticket, but it's "not qualified" if it's a Dem. They are so superficial - and think we are so easily purchased. oooo I get mad too!!

t.keeley  says:
16 months ago

Marisue, write a blog about how people should divert their votes to a third party if they refuse to vote Oabama [like me]. For those who are on the edge on this decision, especially. I for one am sick and tired of the GOP, and while I'm semi-conservative on most issues, I refuse to get another joke of a neo-con in office. Third parties deserve as much publicity as the major ones, and it's a violation of our freedom of speech that they're not allowed in the debates with the other candidates!

Chef Jeff  says:
16 months ago

I guess I have to be the odd person out in that I approve of McCain's choice.  Anything to help Obama win is OK with me.

But all seriousness aside, she has about the same credentials as Cheney did, and look what an effective VP he's been!  He even created a 4th branch of Government, the Vice Presidency is no longer a Constitutionally-overwatched office, now it's a super-Constitutional office! 

How many people do you know that could single-handedly make Halliburton the ONLY company that gets chosen for government contracts, making it into a multi-billion dollar entity, and who still most likely gets some residuals of some sort, in a trust fund, of course, to keep him in pace-makers after he steps down next January?

Run Sarah, run, and anything you say that contradicts your former beliefs that pre-matiral sex & unwed pregnancy is a sin against God - well, I am sure with God being a Republican and all, your own falsehoods will be overlooked!

That said, it was McCain's choice and I really, really completely believe him when he says there were no surprises at all, she was fully and completely vetted and he knew about all of this ahead of time, just as certain as the sun will come up this evening in the North and the moon will set in Lake Michigan; I believe!. 

And is that why 17 year old Bristol is holding that baby brother in every staged photo-op - to cover up her baby belly bump?

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi spryte, I do agree with some of what you've said. As to her questioning authorities about the brother in law...it's a huge misuse of power. Just like judges dont' sit on cases they have personal knowledge of or are close to or related to...it's a conflict of interest, she should have assigned it to someone several times removed from her.

I think she's honest when it suits her. McCain knows we have not had the last 2 years or so to get to know her....and I think he's making a slick move. Her personal life is her own, but when you espouse a certain life style, and then can't live up to it, as a private citizen, it fades away, As a public servant, it reeks.

The daughter deserves our manners and courtesy. The mom has a huge challenge ahead of her. I've been a working mom forever and will tell you that either my job suffered at times or my kids did. It was never 100% of quality for both. This is not a job...it's the second highest office in our country. We can't afford for her to be so distracted and inexperienced as well. I'm very worried about her as VP. She may be a great person, but so are a lot of us with her same qualifications. We wouldn't take the job; she shouldn't either.

She is practical about some things, I'll agree. And totally off in other areas. She is not going to respect other's views on abortion, she will do everything in her power to change that. She belongs to the club that believes not only are they right, they have the "right" to make sure you live the way they think you should. That's scarey.

If she wins, and I will do my part to talk about her enough on blogs to persuade people to not take that chance...we will need to be ever diligent to keep her as well as McCain under "control." Impossible, I fear.

always glad to see you Sprtye, your views are always welcome here...I learn from everyone!! =))

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi biPolar2 -- thank you for your comments, I agree, there seems to be a great ulterior motive. I hope America sees thru his selection. This is manipulative and designed to sway us with what he thinks is "glitter."

This woman is weird, I think there is more to that than meets the eye.

Chef Jeff  says:
16 months ago

Well, McCain is known to be impulsive and to shoot from the hip before he thinks something out fully.  Even his best friends say that about him, so I wonder if he will launch the nukes first, then try to figure out if that radar blip is actually an incoming missle attack.

After all, if you can't convert them, nuke them and let God sort them out.

If Obama is slow & deliberate to get the point across, at least I trust him not to punch the button until he has all the facts.

qlcoach  says:
16 months ago

Your hub is a righteous rant. All of your comments are reasonable. However, a lot of people in this country are not very logical or reasonable. But, Camelot can rise again. (smile) Gary Eby, author and therapist.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi glcoach!! Thanks for stopping by!!! This story is playing out even as I type. I'm amazed at how the country is responding, but the Republicans still maintain it's a good and responsible choice. yikes! It's a continuation of Bush's "emperor with no clothes on.!"

pgrundy  says:
16 months ago

Hey mariesue, thank you for writing this. I've been too mad to do it, I'm really grateful you did. I think choosing Palin was a very cynical move, and the main reason for it was to stop the momentum built up during the Democratic convention by shifting the attention of the press to some Republican issue immediately---which worked, that happened. The press was all over the Palin thing the day after Obama's landmark speech. Secondly, I do think they believe it will be harder for Biden to attack Palin in the debates. He'll have to tiptoe around her so as not to look like he's picking on the poor soccer Mom. Third, she will attract some women of a certain mindset. She will not get Hillary supporters however. I think that's all the party wanted from her---those three things--and beyond that they plan to make her into Dan Quayle. She'll be hosting birthday parties and have an office about a mile from McCain's should he win. She'll be a human doorstop at the White House.

The problem of course is McCain is a thousand years old and in poor health. And now lots of problems are coming out about Palin--all of which points up another problem, namely, McCain is a loose wire and it isn't really what I'd personally call an asset. He constantly looks like he's going to explode when anyone asks him anything, and he visibly winces at any question he doesn't want to answer.

Sadly, lots of Americans seem to view the presidential election as pretty much on the same level as electing their high school student council president. It's all about who would be fun to have a beer with and who seems like a nice person and who's wearing a flag pin and who isn't. It's very disturbing.

Thanks for a great hub. Ditto from me. Sorry I went on so long.

Level1Diet  says:
16 months ago

I'm going out for more popcorn. Wow what a show!

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi Pam, I love your comments, you go on as long as you want...I think you're exactly right, she's a poor pawn, and it's sad they are using her. But boy isn't there some mud coming out....many of my friends and relatives think she'll withdraw her name in disgrace. Blame McCain for that...he's used her without mercy. She could have faded into the woodwork, troubles an all, but no, he had to bring her to the spotlight, and she's so naive.

He does look like he's going to meltdown doesn't he?? I have thought that as well...it's quite pitiful. for us and him, but mainly us. He's made his bed. I'm so tired of hearing him milk the POW for all it's worth. I'd like to ask him why he thinks he did such a heroic deed, when hundreds of prisoners died rather than sign the confession he did. Again, I'm no pillar of strength, they pull my finger and I'd be signing my life away literally. But, I wasn't there, he was and he needn't act like such a hero. History has it that he was a hot dogger, and probly got too low and was shot down. I don't know, maybe no one knows...but he is a hot head, we do know that.

I don't think anyone deserves torture, but it's his answer for everything when he can't think of another one. His whole attitude and belief system is screwed up. He didn't make this decision until the last minute. He's selling us a bag of.....rocks.

I appreciate your visit and come back anytime - I love your comments!! =))

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi level1diet...I'm telling you, this is the movie of the century!! Talk about a storm!! This will make Gustav look like a stiff breeze.

SusanBonfiglio  says:
16 months ago

Hi I'm the person who stumbled this hub because I thought it was well done and I am happy to see such a vibrant discussion.I am concerned that McCain suffers from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from his days as a POW. His temper is legendary in the senate.You know Sally makes a good point. Using her Maslow example, it is hard to get to the top of the pyramid of Self-Actualization of morality, creativity, problem solving and acceptance of facts when you are on the first two rungs of getting your basic need met; food, clothing, shelter and employment. I think that is how the Republicans get the masses to vote against their economic self interest. Keep the poor and the middle class struggling to stay afloat and there is no time for intelligent discussion of what is the best direction for the country.I am concerned that Sarah Palin has misrepresented her "maverick" status. She was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. She touts herself as an ethics reformer but she in under investigation for an ethics violation. She is under investigation for dismissing the state public safety commissioner after the official resisted pressure to fire a state tropper involved in a contentious divorce from Palin's sister (Bloomberg News)What does this say about John McCain who nominates a little known governor with minimal experience under an ethics investigation? And oh yeah...he had a 15 minute conversation with her and felt they were "soulmates." Kind of reminds when Bush looked into Putins eyes and saw his soul. I am sorry but I want a President who will use his brain to solve problems! Someone who is thoughtful and slow to anger. The next President has so many issues to deal with, it is going to take the wisdom of Solomon to get us through.Is anyone concerned about how the voting wil go? I have nightmares of hanging chads!

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Livelonger you are right!! Her mentality might be great in Sunday school, but our leaders must have the ability to see beyond their own nose!!! I hope lots of people see that! Her "real deal" as the Repubs shout, is too "real" for the country. We need artificial!! Teasing...we don't need her brand of "reform." Her reform means "my way is the right way, and the only way." god help us all...

SusanBonfiglio  says:
16 months ago

You should definitely put your blog posts on stumble upon. I use social bookmarking for all blog posts.

This is off the subject but have you heard of the 30 Day Challenge? They have lots of info on how to get traffic, all free. It is all year round now and it has so many good ideas. Check it out.

http://www.ThirtyDayChallenge.com/challenge/20219

Rob Jundt  says:
16 months ago

Marisue: I love your hubs and I love it more when I agree with them. I'm not a McCain guy and I'm not an Obama guy. Both scare me in different ways but I don't have time for that here.

JM must be drinking the wacky juice left over from GWs first inaugural. Great scott... what is he thinking. They might as well put Mr.O's name on the cup now. The McCain show: Moot is what I say.

BTW: Are there any good Federalist candidates on the ballot this year, or do I have to write in my aunt Gertrude again?

Great read as always. Looks like O's the guy... Great scott...

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi sixtyorso, I'll tell Tom to do a hub, he's been telling me his thoughts, he needs to write it down, it's really funny!!

almost 2000 page views so far...isn't that a riot!! People are all shook up; mCCain is having trouble selling this gal.

Audacious  says:
16 months ago

Mairsue-

Looks as though you have fired up a few folks with this eloquently long-winded rant; and sadly, I know that you believe every word.

I have no doubt that my words will not change your mind, nor the minds of most of the well-intentioned people who have taken the time share their thoughts.  I am certain that you and I do agree on one thing, however.  We want this great country to have a leader that is proud to be an American, will fight to defend the constitution, and will leave us alone.  You know, protect our borders, maybe kick in a little money to help develop more energy sources, but otherwise let us be.

I will say I am a little nonplussed by your indignation with the choice of Palin.  I can understand not being happy about the prospect of having an inexperienced politician as VP, but you lost a little traction with me via the condescending way your points were delivered.  Even if I were not a Palin supporter, I would have been a little put off by the attack.

How is it that supporters of Obama, such as yourself, can turn a blind eye to the indiscretions of the man at the top of the Democrat presidential ticket, yet rail against a woman you know so little about?  Tropper-gate?  Boy did the press jump on that like a pack of rabid dogs on a three-legged cat!  Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? 

But let’s suppose for the sake of argument that Mrs. Palin did abuse the power of her office to get her brother-in-law fired.  How is this any different than what the Clinton’s did routinely in Little Rock and on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?  You do remember Vince Foster?  Sandy Berger- how did you get all of those classified documents in your pants?  Oh, that’s just Sandy being Sandy- right Bill?  Thank goodness Bill never had sex with ‘that woman.’  How did that pesky Bin Laden regain his freedom?  I digress…

Ok- Bill is gone, I know.  So now we have names like Tony Resco, Bill Ayers, etc.  The only difference between Barry and Sarah is that the media is working 24/7 to find something to pin on Palin- and to suppress anything that might hurt Obama.  You know it, and I know it.  Question is do you have the courage to admit it?  I believe you do.

I love how Democrats get all worked up about the fact that a pro-life candidate may attempt to pass legislation that -God Forbid!- would take away their right to murder children legally.  Even if this were the case, Democrats still control Congress.  I am pretty sure the “Kill here, Kill Now” Democrats will block any effort to revoke their infanticide laws.  And thank goodness Barry’s mother did not have access to a planned-parenthood clinic back in ’61!  You know where I am going with this...

In the end- it really is a roll of the dice.  I do find it a little unusual that everyone is comparing Palin to Obama.   The rush to defend Barry’s inexperience while shouting from the roof tops about Sarah’s is curious on the surface- hypocritical at its core.  I wonder if she would be under the same scrutiny if she were a Harvard educated, pro-choice, liberal from Connecticut?  Hmmm….     

No love for Joe out there.  He’s just the “token white guy” on the ticket.

Still have tons of respect for you marisue and I appreciate your unbridled enthusiasm, even if I think it is a little misguided.   

Audacious  says:
16 months ago

livelonger- 

You may be surprised.  Why do you make assumptions about me so quickly? 

I prefer to live within the realm of truth.  It is not untrue to say that Obama (or Barry if you prefer) attended muslim schools and is the offspring of a muslim father.  I never joined the "Obama is a Muslim" line of thought.  I do hope that you will afford the same respect to Mrs. Palin when the facts about her record come out. 

You know as much as I do about Mrs. Palin.  She has far less "questionable" activities in her past than Mr. Obama.

Ultimately, time will tell.  You can rest assured that there are hundreds of members of the media pouring over every aspect of Mrs. Palin's life and record for any shred of impropriety they can bring to the surface.  The same cannot be said about Obama. 

Please choose your words carefully and educate yourself before you start casting lots.

SirDent  says:
16 months ago

http://hubpages.com/hub/Sarah-Palins-Accomplishmen

It seems many have jumped onto the bandwagon here. I suggest you restrain from making a judgement until all the facts are in.

allshookup  says:
16 months ago

Audacious, well said on all posts. I agree with you 100%. Keep telling the truth! They may seem blind now, but eventually they will be forced to agree with you. They'll hate it, and im sure they will trash me now for saying it now. But that's ok. They are just words. The truth will come out in the end.

spryte  says:
16 months ago

Thanks Audacious, SirDent and allshookup for saying again what I think as well. I don't mind being in the minority...especially if it's a minority that advocates getting all of the information before making up my own mind. I'm looking forward to the debates...Obama & McCain and Biden & Palin. I think I'll reserve my judgement for the real issues...

Audacious  says:
16 months ago

Chef Jeff-

I respect your well worded and thoughtful dissent.  And I agree, we must all vote our conscience and let the chips fall where they may.

I only bring up Ayers and Resco to point out that Obama also has skeletons.  I get so tired of the press and their relentless one-sided witch hunts.  That being said, we have all done things and had acquaintances that we regret.  Let he who is perfect… cast the first stone. 

Allshookup-

You know where I stand.  We must both be fools for daring to be conservative and say so.  So be it... :)

spryte-

I appreciate your willingness to stick to your guns.  There is no need to be ashamed of your opinion and I am glad that you are not. :)   

Audacious  says:
16 months ago

SusanBonfiglio-You are absolutely right.  The next president will potentially be responsible for the appointment of three Supreme Court judges- but the Democrats control congress.  How likely is it that Pelosi and gang are going to approve the appointment of any judge that desires to overturn Roe? 

I apologize for the harsh tone I take when talking about abortion, but it makes my blood boil to hear people so flippantly refer to unborn babies as inconvenient or “punishments.” 

We can speculate all we like as to why McCain chose Palin, but to say she was unvetted without concrete proof of as much is wrong-headed.  McCain had too much to lose. 

Thank you for your respectful dissent.  I appreciate people who disagree with me and can make their point without name calling and condescension.    

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

wooooo!  I've been off running my 2nd Pentagon today and came back to find a firey discussion.  Audacious, you know all opinions are welcome on my blogs!  Spryte and others who differ are accepted by me and it seems others as well.  We differ, that is our right.  I will spend some time reading the comments, but wanted to say that while I am not judging Palin completely, I formed my opinion based on her own words, not anyone elses.  I don't believe she was properly vetted as there is information out there the "vetting crew" was hurriedly giving information to McCain Sunday night before his annoucement....I think I have that right.  In any event, she admits to having no idea of the VP office; which was no comfort.  She hasn't been paying attention to the war in Iraq???  She's been too busy??  I think if my son were there, I'd have the facts in my head. 

I am so off Republicans after the mess of the last 8 years, I can't think of a reason to vote for them.  Not one.  Now, Audacious, I did not mean to be condescending in my remarks of the hub; I'm surprised to think they were received in that manner, as I meant them to be humorus; it's pretty hard and rare for me to be condescending.  That's not my norm.  So, just understand that was not the intent of the piece.  I'm not one to accept blindly, anything, be it Democrat or Republican.  Certainly we can find government officials everywhere that over use and abuse their power. 

We certainly don't want to add their numbers.  I think it's pretty clear, by her not removing herself from the investigation, she overused her power.  Whether they'll call her hand on it or not, remains to be seen. 

Her daughter being pg is not an issue for me, but when you are a public figure, and you shout about your values from the microphone at every opportunity, loud enought and forecfully enough that one begins to think you would attempt to force others to live by your "Godly" standards....it doesn't make sense to call fowl when someone points out your failings. 

Many evil deeds are done by those who wear the name of God.  I respect those who live as they choose as long as they don't interfere with others rights to do the same.  Talk to God all they want, but don't tell me what God tells you back.  That gets a little spooky - because what if I believe that God told me something entirely different?  Then, which "law" do we change....?  I think I'm right, but I don't force it on others.  I want to elect those who will as you say...basically leave us alone.

=)  see, we agree on more than we disagree.  We're voting for different people to accomplish our goals.  I think there is plenty of reason to Pale over Palin...and you're all right....time will tell...I am always open to learn. 

What a great discussion!!  Keep it up!  (shhhh, I still think it's a comedy show to a certain degree...so let me have my popcorn!!  Don't you think the Repubs laughed at the Dems?  I'm sure they did...) 

Y'all come back!! =))

Susan, Rush has been burnt in the brain with his drugs...he's a despicable human being and I use the term loosely. grrrr I used to enjoy his satire, but no more, now he's just mean and shallow.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Hi spryte, I'm a scootin' -- lots of butter, please!! We are friends and we can disagree! I like differences...keeps life interesting...who wants to be around a bunch of marshmallows!! I actually hope I'm wrong about Palin...we just don't need scandals...they weaken our nation as a whole.!!

Tonight will be interesting!! =) another blog, at least! haha

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

hahaha g reat idea! trubble isssss, it just might come true. I think all of us, on both sides, should seriously check this lady out and not just assume she's wrong, OR THAT she's ok. I have so many doubts about McCain, that I can't vote for her even if she were Einstein...sooo, a movie in the making; I do believe it is. Hmmm... Horror show, scarey show, or comedy? or just drama, one thing for sure, American politics is not boring.

allshookup  says:
16 months ago

I'm also looking forward to hearing her. There's something that so many people do, including some in my family, that I don't understand. They vote for a party. Not the person. The person might be the worst person ever for whatever job they are running for, yet because they have an R or D after their name, that's why they vote that way. I have voted for both parties because I vote for the person. Also, I do not look at what the party has done in the past. I don't think it would be fair of me to say....your a dem so your can't be a good this or that or your a republican, so you can't be good mayor, etc. I think that you should judge the person you support by them personally not by what their party has done in the past. It's not fair.

gwendymom  says:
16 months ago

all shook up, I agree with what you are saying about voting for the person, not for the party. That is the reason I am registered as a independent. I want to be able to cast my vote for the person, for their beliefs and values, now that being said, I am really not too concerned about who is gonna be the VP. My worries are about who our President will be.

Obama scares the crap out of me! I think this man is a muslim, I think he is a racist, (Yeah I said it!)and I for one am very frightened. So he's a great speaker, so was Hilter! How can this man have went to church at Trinity United Church for twenty years and not know how his pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. felt about white people and our country. Come on guys! This man won't his hand over his heart for our National Anthem. He won't wear a flag pin, because he is not proud of the country he lives in.

I was going to write a hub about why Obama is not our man, but how funny that most articles that had been written about Obama that shed a less than flattering shadow on him was unavailable at this time or links were broken. Why is that? What are we not supposed to be learning about here. Audacious, It seems you might have run into that problem yourself from the comment "Ultimately, time will tell. You can rest assured that there are hundreds of members of the media pouring over every aspect of Mrs. Palin's life and record for any shred of impropriety they can bring to the surface. The same cannot be said about Obama. "

I would like to add a link here and hope that everyone will just read what there, Even if you don't agree.

http://dontvoteobama.net/default.htm

gwendymom  says:
16 months ago

Just had to add that money should not matter, we all new that George W. was a spolied little brat and he still got voted in!

Patty Inglish, MS  says:
16 months ago

I think the surprise of the Palin pick for VP adds extra twirl to the vortex and is rather fun! More like the BT Evilpants/Wm Torpey run. :)

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

wow you guys are great...lots of intelligent feed back here! I, too, am puzzled about many aspects of Obama, as I continue to listen to him, I think he really did not pay much attention to his pastor, but it is hard to understand that!! all my life I have voted for the person....but I cannot vote Republican for President this year. That party has lost any confidence I might have given them. I barely have any for the Democrats. Still, I have listened to their words. When you really check out McCain, he has a horrible past. Lots of reasons not to trust this hot tempered man. He has been very deceitful most of his life.

Hillary was not perfect, but she's been around long enough for us to know her, and accept her. She has developed credibility, even when she screwed up....she's earned her place. Palin has jumped to 2nd in command with little effort of her own...she was just in the right place at the right time. Can our country afford that? It might have worked years ago....we are in trouble now, and need some worldly savvy. I don't want anyone to force their zealousness of a certain issue on the rest of us because they think they have a special "link" or knowledge from God or because they're "bright." Who defines their brightness? I don't know that she's dumb or bright. I just don't know, she's got a lot to prove in a short amount of time. Why wiould McCain do that to the country he "loves?"

Why not give us someone we can count on? I don't have the answers....but my gut is not pleased and I continue to have questions!

I think all candidates at times have misspoke. I think Obama meant that we are in the greatest country in the world...and we need change....both can be true. We've lost ground, our potential is still great.

We have an interesting 2 months ahead of us. At least we'll all do our part and vote and that is what makes us great. Keep on discussing. We're all listening...

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Because Obama is this or that, does not mean we should settle for this woman as McCain's sidekick. We deserve the best he could have given us and she is not it by her own record. She has a pending scandal, lots of personal issues, and is very distracted plus being inexperienced in ways that matter. We do not know who she is and I only make my opinion based on what has been revealed so far...it's not appealing. An unknown Rookie is one thing; one with scandals and problems is another.

I'm not really proud of any of them, but I'd rather have the one I know than the one I don't and what I do know is shakey. I don't feel a solid ground here. McCain is running alright, and he doesn't give me assurance he can do any better than Bush did. His VP ought to strengthen the ticket, not weaken it and for me it is weaker.

Thanks for your comments, come back soon!! differences are respected here.

spryte  says:
16 months ago

It'll definitely been an interesting race for sure. I have dinner in the oven and my hubby and I have the TV on...waiting. It's kind of cute. They have a Sarah Palin countdown window in the lower portion of the screen. Heheheh!

I don't think I've looked forward to anything this much since the debates with Ross Perot (loved that man...he could sure stir things up and keep things interesting).

Jewels  says:
16 months ago

McCain's choice was/is an interesting one.  On one hand you could say that having a housewife as the next VP, and possibly president (because lets face it, McCain is not a spring chicken) is a crazy move.  Well having Ronald Regan, an actor, as a President - wouldn't that be in the same category?  It shows me that it's not the President as an intelligent, caring, governing human being that's necessary to run the USA, but perhaps the powerful business people presenting front people to lure your votes.  There is absolutely no doubt that Mr Bush was a puppet, not a very good one cause he had trouble lip syncing. As an intelligent leader he sucked.  So intelligence doesn't come into it.  Being a housewife probably doesn't come into it either.  So it really seems quite whitewashed to me.

It does matter to the world who becomes the next US president, that's why as a non-American I have a great interest in this election.  But, and excuse my being flippant, if I had to choose someone to listen to for the next 4 years, understanding that he is or she is a puppet anyway, I'd choose Obama, mainly because his voice makes my knees shake.

If the US election has become about luring voters with charisma and pomp and ceremony and is pleasing to the senses, then give me a man with the beautiful voice. I'd listen to him for the next 8 years no problem.

Audacious  says:
16 months ago

marisue-

I will admit that I had a totally wrong impression when I first read your hub.  I know better and I apologize for assuming that you were being condescending.  I guess I am just a bit frazzled by all the negative, one-sided, biased mudslinging going on in the media.  It is so over the top.

You did make one point with which I would like to take umbrage.

“Her daughter being pg is not an issue for me, but when you are a public figure, and you shout about your values from the microphone at every opportunity, loud enought and forecfully enough that one begins to think you would attempt to force others to live by your "Godly" standards....it doesn't make sense to call fowl when someone points out your failings.”

I find it contemptible that you seem to hold Mrs. Palin to an unrealistic standard.  Please allow me to explain:

My children are younger, and I am doing my best to raise them right.  I read with them, talk to them about our faith, get them to church nearly every Sunday, and pray with them.  I try to lead by example, though I sometimes fall short.  I know no matter how much I plead with them to abstain from sexual activity, there is a chance they will not heed my advice.  Am I a bad person if my oldest son, who is 13, goes out on a date (in about 5 years) and impregnates his girlfriend?  Should I stop telling people about my very conservative views to avoid sounding hypocritical if one of my children exercises poor judgment?  Has Sarah Palin failed as a parent because her daughter is pregnant? 

I can sight at least three close friends that had incredibly solid, God-fearing parents that have made terrible mistakes.  Oh yeah, I made a few myself.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

No Audacious, that is not what I am saying.  I have a son too, who fathered a baby,  kids do what they do.

What I am saying is, I do not preach to the world as a public figure, to the extent that I want to force my beliefs on others...and I may be misjudging her, but I believe she would "force" her views into law and yet, she is ignoring the human factor that exists and should make her more humble.  Instead, it "appears" that she has made excuses for herself, yet continues to hold others to a higher standard and this is the kicker:  SHE WILL BE IN  A POSITION TO PASS OR INFLUENCE LAWS that will affect us more than my opinion or belief effects my neighbors. 

She is a parent now,  and a person of power later...and she needs to reassure me that she will not force her beliefs about abortion or marriage or pregnancy, or anything else on others.  A public figure has to see beyond their own nose.  They can't take the stand that they have a better line to "heavenly law" or how ever they phrase it...than the average citizen on the ground, that will then be required to live according to that law. 

I may believe we should all bow three times to the North each day and have peaches for breakfast and even think God is the author of that belief.  That's fine....until I pass a law saying you need to bow three times to the North each day and have peaches for breakfast because I know best....never mind that I only bow three times to the north when I choose. 

I hope I said that right.  LOL  I lost track.  But you get my point.  As an individual...you can preach all you want.  As a public servant....YOU SERVE others...not just live by your own code and force it on others and from what I've learned about her...shes radical and thinks she has a straight link to God, forcing creationism, which incidentaly I believe in....into the schools is not proper.  Introducing it as a choice is one thing. 

She is too "im right and therefore we will do go here."  That is not democracy in action, that is radicalism.  and It's not the "leave us alone" doctrine you spoke of.

=))  as always  thanks for expressing yourself here!!

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

You know, Ann, she has.  I just don't want her beside mCcain in the white house.  Heck, I don't even want HIM in the white house.  So, he cudda picked an angel...and I'd say no.  I just don't like the man nor most of what he's done.  He misrepresents himself,....now I know he's not the only one who does that.  but she's harsh, and he's a ....liar.  ok, he doesn't tell the truth.  Well, most politicians don't but we don't need another one.  Now, I'm not sold on Obama either.  I'm sad about our choices...

I hope Palin is not going to be a disappointment to all those who elected her in Alaska,  there's a scandal brewing and I thought she was harsh, sarcastic, and assuming tonight.  Not becoming for a first timer and rookie trying to introduce herself to us.  She gave a great delivery.  But, she forget to mention the Republicans created most of the problems she talked about.  I thought for a moment she was making a case for the Democrats.  LOL

=))  good to see you always!!

Storytellersrus  says:
16 months ago

I'm not sure where the rating of over 80% comes from...

Palin's Approval Rating in the Teens   [Greg Pollowitz]

"Among the press covering her in Alaska.  From the HuffPo:

"A reporter for the Anchorage daily, Gregg Erickson, even did an online chat with the Washington Post, in which he revealed that Palin's approval rating in the state was not the much-touted 80%, but 65% and sinking — and that among journalists who followed her it might be in the "teens."

"Good news.  Now we can discount everything we read about the governor from the local Alaska press.  I hear her approval rating among polar bears, caribou, and moose in the region is even lower.

"Here's more:

"His paper found a number of leading Republican officeholders in the state who mocked Palin's qualifications. "She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Lyda Green, the president of the State Senate, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

"Doesn't the far left understand that conservatives — the base of the Republican party — do not care what Alaska Republicans think of her? Alaska Republicans symbolize everything that we think is wrong with the Republican party. It should be noted that Lyda Green and Sarah Palin have a less than positive relationship, stemming, at least in part, from an unfortunate appearance by Gov. Palin on a local radio show where the DJs went after Green and Palin didn't respond in the way she should have."

She giggled when the DJ called Green the B-word- trust me, it was recorded for all to replay.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Storytellerus....THANK you for adding your comments....those are very interesting clips....this is not a nice woman,  we should not fall for her good speech writers.  we definitely should look into her "tough" background.  So she can smile and jab ya....just what we need, a cheney with long hair and boobs.  I'm tellin' you, we're in trouble but I think Alaska's investigation will take care of this.

She's got  guts,  but she assumes too much.

PaulieWalnuts  says:
16 months ago

Yep, me thinks McCain's not gonna win either. But even when Obama does, he won't be able to CHANGE much of anything 'cept his shorts! After his love fest simmers down, reality will set in.

Do you really think that America would elect the oldest codger candidate ever, the walking dead, dumper of his disabled first wife because she is in a wheelchair? His P.O.W, past didn't teach him much, his ex was in her own P.O.W. camp with no support from him. Her prison lasts a life time. Oooops, yes, we DID elect Bush, stupidly, TWICE! (I never voted for Bush, my conscience is clear!) But God forbid, if Ol' man McCain kicks the bucket and Sarah Baracuda assumes the Presidency, Holy sh_t! Will she make us all shoot moose (Rocky & Bullwinkle will not be happy!) and dig oil wells in our own back yards? Or perhaps, ladies, lol, the new hairdo craze will be the "Librarian Look!" Buy stock in "Vo5!"

SusanBonfiglio  says:
16 months ago

I want to respond to Gwendymom's comment:"Obama scares the crap out of me! I think this man is a muslim...How can this man have went to church at Trinity United Church for twenty years and not know how his pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. felt about white people and our country.Gwendymom you can't have it both ways, he can't be a muslim and then criticize him for the church he went to. I am not saying I like Rev Wright, but you can't have it both ways.

Also, flagpins should not be the litmus test for patriotism.

allshookup: that email is sent because 80% of the country believe we are going in the wrong direction.

There is no politician who is perfect. They all spin but I had to laugh at the speeches last night talking about what the past eight years. I have to remind people that the last eight years we had a Republican President and for most of it, a Republican Congress. And even when the Democrats won control it was by too small a margin to get anything done. The Republicans blocked them at any turn. I am not defending the Democratic Congress, I think they were weak and spineless but just wanted to point out that all the spin was laughable, they were in control.

blangrehr Obama is not suggesting that because her daughter made a mistake that it should disqualify her. In fact, he went out of the way to vehemently say that families, especially children are off limits. He went further to say that his mother was 18 when he was born. It does however, point up the fact that when kids are denied sex education, problems can come.

I also want to say that people are bashing community organizers. What Obama did was go into poor neighborhoods and help people get jobs and save their homes. He helped them feel empowered and with empowerment comes responsibility. There is nothing to bash here.

Lastly, when did the Republicans become so sensitive to sexism? All these comments about the bashing of Sarah Palin. You know, when Hillary Clinton talked about sexism in her race, Sarah Palin pooh poohed it. Check out this artice, and oh yes, they have a video clip there to so you can see it in your own words.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/di

gwendymom  says:
16 months ago

I was just wondering how many have made up their minds about who they are voting for, and how many are still undecided. They have said on the news that it is a pretty close race. I have p ublished a quick poll, if anyone is interested in placing their vote.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Who-are-you-voting-for

allshookup  says:
16 months ago

Good point TM. It was brought up that people don't want people in office who force their morals etc on us. Whoever is in in office does that. They make their decisions based on their morals and beliefs. That why is it so important for a person of good ethics and values to be elected to any office. This is how decisions are made. So, you cannot seperate the two. Every person has a belief system and when you are electing them, you are also voting for their value system. Because Palin is honest and shares her and Obama keeps his close to his vest makes me wonder. Why doesn't he have the nerve to share his whole belief system? When asked point blank about what he believes about when a baby is considered a baby, he had no answer. He was afraid to answer. He doesn't want us to know his beliefs. It's above his pay rate. Apparently he needs a huge raise if he is elected so can make an informed decision. Apparently money helps him to know more things. But he chose to not answer. He doesn't share his values yet wants us to trust him. At least we know where she stands on things. With him, he keeps most of it to himself. When someone keeps things from me, it makes me not trust them. Because, if they were proud of their values, they would be proud to share them, as Palin is doing. So, the question is, why is he afraid to share all of his values with us? Perhaps because if we knew them all, he would lose votes. He talks of the short comings of those in the Republician party. Why not stop telling us how he feels they fall short and tell us how he stacks up?

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

wow you all have given very well written remarks, and well researched.  Susan and storytellerus KUDOS -- great research and relative information  wow  I am soooo glad you are participating.  I thought Palin last night was snide, snippy, had great delivery of a weak message; I would have respected her more if she or any of them had recognized and admitted that they had caused all the problems she said needed to be fixed...ahem, has no one told her?  Maybe hockey mom's, excuse me, pit bulls with lipstick don't read the papers. 

When she said her pitbull with lipstick remark I thought "great, just what we need, another Cheney."  Not sure about the lipstick, but rumors for 20+ years....o well, I won't touch that one.  Suffice it to say we don't need a RED LIPPED pitbull, and I don't think she scared anyone.

Should the halls of justice and the White House be packing up the valuables, for fear of ebay??  I just wonder how safe the antiques are.  A few congressman better watch it, she'll be listing them on ebay next.

Grey hair, beware!

So, she can talk.  And criticize....she was not respectful nor wise in her condemnation...this is the Repubs mess, we shall not forget.

How dare she  or any Republican look us in the face and shout victory in Iraq?  Tell that to the mothers and fathers who will look at empty seats around the dinner table this Thanksgiving...tell that to the wives and children who've lost their parents, or haven't seen them in years, or who are now cutting up their meat and helping them dress as amputees.  How long must mothers cry for their wounded and dead?  How long must we walk the scorching desert of Iraq and climb the freezing hills of Afghanistan looking for a man whom Pres Bush admits he hardly thinks of anymore????

How dare he say such a thing???  I bet the mothers and fathers of our soldiers think of him everyday.  I challenge every American for one month to send an email daily to Pres Bush reminding him of the hunt for Bin Laden WHICH HE STARTED....REMIND  him of your children and fathers, and daughters, and sisters and brothrs who shed blood daily and sacrifice for a cause he hardly thinks of anymore BY HIS OWN ADMISSION. 

And the Republicans want my vote??  They could not pay me enough.  There no price on the brave men and women who DIED, McCain.  Who have not signed confessions under torture of wrong doing.  They died.  They died in Vietnam rather than sign what you signed.   Thousands.  You are BRAVE?  You deceive us, McCain.  Palin in my fear, is deceiving us and claiming credit for that which she did not do; and not owning up to that which she did do...and that is abuse her power.   That is a serious offense.  Do we overlook it because she is not the only one?  NO.  Say NO now to this ridiculous Republican ticket. 4 more years of blood, no brains, and a cracked up Economy?  They say Dems want a bigger government??   How can it get much bigger than what the Republicans have spent?? 

No thanks, Bush, No thanks McCain, No thanks Palin.  We can't afford you.  I, for one, do not want the ocean rising with the tears of families struggling to make bare necessities that you think is just in our minds.  I do not want to listen to the wales of pain and agony from families who've lost their finest.  I do not want to see a bare chair at my own dinner table at Thanksgiving or any day. 

Not one more drop of American Blood on Foreign Soil Mr President, McCain, Palin.  NOT ONE MORE.

No hot chick librarian pitbull with lipstick sways me nor most, is my opinion.  So she memorized her speech.  Big Deal.  Most American Parents have a few things memorized too.  Their kids and husbands and daughters who are absent - fighting a war that was in the wrong country and now one in Afghanistan for someone the President WHO SENT THEM doesn't bother thinking about.

NOT ONE MORE DROP OF BLOOD.

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

That's a little too rough I think. I have never been tortured. For a day. Let alone 6 years. I think after 2 yrs of it - I might sign anything - and McCain was only one of 100's that did. I think you can question anything - as all of the above does - but you may have questioned too much here. I think.

spryte  says:
16 months ago

Regardless of who put us in this war...we still have soldiers THERE. My ex-husband spent 18 months in Iraq (while we were married) and I'm so offended that everyone is in such a rush to say "oh well...that didn't work out, let's all go home now." Did none of their sacrifice count for anything?

Save a seat for me at the dinner table this Thanksgiving. I have no problem joining any family that lost a loved one to this war, whose soldier came back less than whole and can say, I understand and appreciate the sacrifice your son or daughter made for this country and I shared that agony of knowing a loved one was in harm's way.

But don't ever...don't you ever tell me it's lost until the last soldier comes home.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Spryte I honor every soldier anywhere....and victory is them coming home alive.  They did a great job and I cannot imagine the hardships they have suffered.  We've done our job. the bad guys will always be there...an endless supply.  We can monitor and back them up, but Iraq needs to handle what has been for some time, a civil war.  Al Qaeda left some time back....not that they won't re-appear.

God bless your husband...and all our soldiers.

Susan, I've had hot hubs,with far less page views than this....it's a mystery.  I can't help but think it's human hands....and I've emailed hub staff but have not had a response....

great links by the way....excellent resource of info....you are HOT!! =))

spryte  says:
16 months ago

Marisue...not to belabor the point but as a military brat, with a penchant for marrying military men (marine, national guard, army)...I'm sure a psychotherapist somewhere could have a field day with that...I'm a bit sensitive about our troops and how they are viewed.

Their job is still very much in the present...as in they are "doing" a great job. Even after what some would consider a victorious war, we still station soldiers in that area because it's considered a hot spot.

As for victory meaning them coming home alive, while that's the best of all scenarios, a soldier understands that he may have to lay down his own life in order to insure a victory. Just as an example off the top of my head...the countless men that died on the beaches of Normandy who gave their lives for a high cost victory. Whether it's an unpopular war...or a popular war...I don't think Americans truly understand the meaning of supporting their troops.

It takes a lot out of a soldier and his family and loved ones to mentally and emotionally prepare themselves for going to war. But once committed, regardless of the level of patriotism, it's understood that a job has to be done and they are the ones doing it.

Let's take a less...volatile example. The Olympics...where death isn't as likely a possibility, but the spirit of doing the best for your country is still beating in the heart of every athlete.

Let's say that popular opinion held that the Chinese were going to kick our ass in men's gymnastics...in fact, it was pretty much guaranteed that we'd lose. Why bother even sending the American team? Or even worse...why not send them and tell them that we're supporting them even though we pretty much already know they are going to lose?

The point I'm trying to make is...by claiming to support the troops, but in effect telling them it's a lost cause...we are sending a counter-productive message. To truly claim that one supports the troops means to do so regardless of a war's popularity.

And now I'll climb off my soapbox...

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

I agree Chef. But I do believe a Creator should be taught. The details will have to be left to a future day. But at the very least, we can say that the evolutionists having controlled the debate for 100 years have at least been wrong on the idea there was no God whatsoever. Perhaps, perhaps they are wrong on other things too.

There is a strong scientific and philosophical basis for Design - and that I think - is a victory for people of faith.

Here in Texas - the movement is gaining strength as evidenced by this recently passed legislation. This is the way I think it should be taught.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080719/texa

Chef Jeff  says:
16 months ago

But the idea of a Creator is being taught - by parents, by churches and in the media.  In truth, evolution holds a very small place in academic time in any science classroom.  Most of the science being taught may be found in looking at organisms, not how they got there.

I do not agree that creationism should be taught in science classes any more than I believe the Bible should be taught as the be all and end all of English classes.

I also do not agree with anti-Creationists that if Creationism should be taught in school, then, to make up for our great national education deficeit, school subjects need to be taught in Church.

Yet I can see that pressing the issue one way may result in some very unintended results the other way.

Also, I do not belive evolutionists got it wrong concerning the scientific evidense for God in evolution.  Science is neither equiped nor able to discover God thorugh the Scientific Method.  They could not prove or disprove Jesus' existance using those techniques.  Discovering anything about God requires an entirely different system of enquiry, which is not a part of science.

So, while science has it uses for discovering much about how the Universe works, it is not equioed at all, and neither should it be, to discussing HOW it came to be, from the point of view of God or no God.  Any reply by science along that line would be sher speculation, and nothing more.

In my opinion you can't prove or disprove faith.  I don't have faith because of my science background, and neither did I lose faith because of what I learned in science classes. 

I did learn that all the living things on Earth are classified by similarities, and that many of the creatures on the Earth have many things in common, and just enough that is different to show that they came from similar backgrounds, but evolved or changed over time.

So how could I prove that God created thejm?  frankly, I can't - it's a matter of faith, not scientific proof.  Apples and rocks, to me, is the difference in these two ideas.

Anyway, I hope we can agree to disagree, since if I am wrong, one day I'll learn the truth of it all.  If I am not wrong, then we can shake hands and move along to whatever is next in our existance.

And thanks for the books - I will read them and see if they change my mind or not. Again, thanks!

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

You guys are wonderful I don't care what anyone says about ya....LOL  This is a great debate and respectful discussion!!  My goal!!! 

My problem with any "belief" about creation...is if it's the only one taught. Or evolution... We ought to offer a menu of electives, and teach it as the subject it is.  Not as fact, or one person's view "required."  We all have beliefs, and in a free society, allowances for differences are the rule.  Otherwise, who decides what kind of prayer is said....Palin, or me?  The difference is....she would decide....I wouldn't if I could.  Some rights are personal choice. 

I believe in separation of Church and State...State should not dictate Church, nor vice versa.  Freedom of religion is just that.  No prayer in school.  Let's say why:  My prayer, or your prayer?  Maybe the Satanist's prayer, they have one you know.  Or the Buddist, or the Muslim, or....."  which?  Not time enough for all.  Let's just learn to read, have a silent moment of personal thought, and get down to business.

I pray my way, you pray your way....or no one prays any way.  It's all personal and a matter of freedom.  Palin does not see things that way by her own words, courtesy of the links Susan provided!!!  (thanks btw) --

Great discussion....I'm learning something and finding some agreement in something everyone is saying....but No Vote for Republican this time, from me. 

And Spryte...I agree, the soldier has his own way of looking at his job; I could never fully understand....but I do try.  They have my utmost respect...even if I don't phrase it right.  My dad was Navy, My brother was Navy,  My oldest son Air National Guard,  My husband Military Police in Oklahoma Army National Guard.

I do know a little from which you speak.  =))  love ya, gal....you have my respect as well!!

=))

SweetiePie  says:
16 months ago

Marisue, I am very curious as to why your hub is not on the front page, and this is just one of the things that boggles my mind these days.  There is a hub about masturbation, duplicate content, but for days it has had a hub score of 85+ when most duplicate content falls down to 35.  I try not to question things much, but why is this well thought out hub not on the front page of the hot hubs?

SusanBonfiglio  says:
16 months ago

I too am perplexed.

Trophy Man why not start a separate hub on Evolution. I am wondering if it will hurt Mariesues ranking and I think if you do a hub, you will start an excellent discussion. I

Please don't think I am disssing you in anyway, just wondering if it isn't better ona separate hub. I can see it engendering a lot of discussion.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Thank you guys for voicing my own curiosity about not being on the hot hub page....1831 views, have been from stumbleupon...so it's had the outside views and 413+ have been from hubpages...which is huge as well.  I may have generated some thumbs down....does hub pages tell us when that happens?  I understand there are those people who travel the net doing that to people they disagree with...so I am sure it could happen...but how can I find out?  One moment I was 90  and then boom, down to 84  -- I guess we all made some people mad  LOL

Well, that and 50 cents will get us a drop of java, yes?  I was just wondering...and that masturbation hub...scuse me but that's been irritating....it stays on the first page and this hub can't make it?   My peanut butter , bathroom and toenail hub got there with no problem...but not this one.  LOL  

sabotage, anyone?   Maybe Palin sneaked in here incognito....shes  good at that you know.  haahhaha

eeeek  I could end up sold on ebay and not even be aware.  haa  well anyway  we like it here, yes?  

Rochelle Frank  says:
16 months ago

Actually I'd rather have her than McCain for president. She's a moose hunter.---

And what if that deputy she went after, tasered his own 10 year old ? is that true?

spryte  says:
16 months ago

Rochelle -

The state trooper tasered his step son.  Story goes thusly...

The trooper was taking a class in taser guns and one afternoon his 10 year old stepson thought it would be cool to have his stepdad try it out on him.  So he did.  While I find it rather appalling that this weapon could ever be considered a toy...I remember my own brother-in-law trying out his dog's new shock collar on his own neck to see what it was like...and receiving a nasty jolt much to the pleasure of his audience. 

My biggest concern about the trooper has been his issue with violations committed in the cruiser...such as speeding, wreckless endangerment, drinking while driving and driving while intoxicated.  How many average citizens do you know that if caught doing any of those things get a 5 day suspension from work? 

Above and beyond his involvement with the Palin family, his behavior as a trooper is questionable and should be of concern to the citizenry.  I don't know him personally...all of my information was gathered online via various news sources.  So I can't offer an opinion on whether he has any redemptive value as a state trooper...perhaps he just needs anger management or AA.  Either way...he has bad judgement and if he were one of my local state troopers behaving this way...I'd want him to be accountable too. 

Jewels  says:
16 months ago

I'm wondering if this isn't a ploy by the Republicans to canvass the Christian Fundamentalist voters. A sad day in the world if this is true.

livelonger  says:
16 months ago

I don't consider rote memorization of a speech (the only one you've given over a VERY long campaign season) a sign of mental prowess. Sorry, Trophy Man.

SweetiePie  says:
16 months ago

Not to harp on it, but it does bother me as that other hub I mentioned is copied off some newsgroup posting, while hub is original content and should have a score of at least 95 I would think. Oh well, it is so confusing to me.

Chef Jeff  says:
16 months ago

Gwendymom, I guess I'd like to ask that if Obama is a Muslim (and there's certainly nothing wrong with that, unless we've changed the Freedom of Religion clause), why would he be attending a Christian church for 20 years?  Does anyone else see the incongruity in such a statement?

As for Rev. Wright, to anyone who has heard his other sermons over the past twenty years, please understand that this has NOT been the topic of his every utterance!  Also, having grown up in the tradition of the so-called Black Church (even though I'm a white guy) I understand the anger and frustration felt by a people who are still thought of by your average white folks as a sub-group of American socierty.

I have to ask when was the last time we White folks had to go to bed fearing that the equivilent of a black KKK would crash through the door and drag us to our deaths behind a pick-up truck?  When was the last you got home to find one of your family members hanging to a tree simply because of his color? 

You can not begin to imagine the life Rev. Wright and others of his generation who live under such fear.  You can't begin to understand what Barack Obama means to stopping such racist hatred in this otherwise great nation of ours.  To call him a racist is like saying the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust!  Hitler spoke eloquently?  What is that supposed to mean?  If someone speaks well they're a secret NAZI?  Rubbish, I say!  Under that logic Reagan must have been an SS oberkampffuhrer!

Also I have heard plenty of White preachers, men who speak very eloquently indeed, especially those who are on TV, claiming that America is damned because we don't follow the idea they tell us we need to live by.  All Wright said, as I understand it, was that if America does not stop sinning, we will be damned by God.  Doesn't the Bible also claim that?  My reading of it shows that yes, it does.  Sin is an abomination before God, and He doesn't overlook sin simply because we Americans commit sin!

If you take it as hate on his part, I take it as frustration that we Americans constantly brag about how wonderful we are, yet we constantly put down other people who are not like us, we do not allow true freedom to ring in every home and every city, and that we are largely seen by most of the world as hypocrites when we thump our chests and tell them they have to think and believe like we do.

I'd like to direct you to a recent hub I published reflecting the thoughts of my niece Emma.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Some-thoughts-by-Emma

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

I've added a news capsule, and a poll capsule...yea...let's vote!

ASHWINSPGA  says:
16 months ago

Tv talk show host Jimmy Kimmel" if Mcain becomes President then the US will have its first trophy vice-president" Light hearted comedy it was meant to be but it does hold some truth!!! no?

hubby7  says:
16 months ago

Hi Can anyone compare her to the knowledge and education that Obama has in his background?? mariesuewrites,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is concerned over Palin becoming the next Vice President. I feel that she is too parochial in her views and that she appears not to have the academic grounding for the office. Also, I absolutely agree with your statement that " can anyone compare her to the knowledge and education that Obama has in his background?" By the way, you wrote a superb article!

hubby7

ASHWINSPGA  says:
16 months ago

My dear hubbers if you liked Ms Maries's articles kindly give it a thumbs up before you leave. She really deserves it. Her brilliant article deserves it. Dont let the naysayers bring this hub's quality down.

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

 But that's the point. We are talking about judgment here. You have dismissed Obama's Church issue with the wave of a hand. A 20 year association ends not because of what Wright said - but because it was expedient. If it was for what Wright said - then surely he was saying it all along. If it wasn't - then surely Obama got rid of his friend for expediency. Either way - that's really bad judgment.

Flawed may be a good way of comparing the two candidates - but it didn't explain the situation I was talking about. But ok - you are a hard core Obama fan. I can understand your willingness to dismiss his judgment and forgive him. But then you compare that to McCain's judgment concerning Palin - as if that's comparable. But in fact - Palin's choice has dramatically changed the nature of the race - emphatically. Whether one believes the choice was good or not - it definitely showed good judgment in that it stood an election on it's head - and it was the ONLY CHOICE - in retrospect that could have done it. It's easy to see now - but that's what made it brilliant - No one saw it before.

And have you actually read what Palin said the day she was debating evolution as opposed to Intelligent Design/Creationism? Let me be bold and say no. It arose in the debates with other candidates also answering the question in the Alaskan Governor's race. It was well televised and attended.

There are many complete transcripts that show exactly what she said in context. As I've posted above - there is DEFINITELY clear reason to support Design AS SCIENCE as Anthony Flew's case shows. Flew also shows in his book that Einstein and many others were not Atheists - they were people who believed there had to be some supra attending intelligence to the Universe - and that that Intelligence could be known by the Design of what we see. That's a true fact.

They did not conclude from that "THE GOD OF THE BIBLE IS GOD" which is the big fat taboo in the middle of the debate. They actually say they don't believe in Him. So Design DOESN'T necessarily lead to conversion.

:)

So I think most people who knee jerk to her view - really are opposing the idea of the Judeo/Christian concept of God - which is never discussed. (Merely because they know she's a Christian). But what she said was - the idea of a Creator should be discussed. And, my friends, she's in good company. Einstein and Flew are not neophytes.

THIS is what Flew wrote about the God he discovered. It wasn't the Christian God.

"I must say again that the journey to my discovery of the Divine has thus far been a pilgrimage OF REASON. I have followed the argument where it has led me. And it has led me to accept the existence of a self-existent, immutable, immaterial, omnipotent, and omniscient Being."

"Where do I go from here? In the first place, I am entirely open to learning more about the divine Reality, especially in the light of what we know about the history of nature." (Cosmology and Evolutionary forces - PT) Second, the question of whether the Divine has revealed itself in human history remains a valid topic of discussion."

SO having concluded the existence of God - the topic of VALID discussion he is talking about - is whether or not God has revealed Himself in ANY religion - Christianity included. At this point - he says he hasn't seen any proof.

SO here we have one of the most brilliant Atheistic Philosophers of the late 20th century - AN ATHEIST AMONG ATHEISTS - saying we should discuss it as well. And he does so based on REASON and Science - not hyperbole or political expediencies. Therefore - Palin may in fact be cutting edge and NOT old fashioned, as many suggest. Read her answers in the debate as reported in Anchorage. You'll notice she's NOT as dogmatic about it as the Atheists offer in their columns. (it's doubtful they read it)

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8

CONCERNING the idea of her outlawing abortion as a reason for McCain's bad judgment - one must remember that abortion was OUTLAWED for the majority of this country's history. When it was passed and then affirmed it was done so with  5/4 votes. Hardly an unanimous verdict. If the law was overturned - that in and of itself would not be evil or bad judgment - it would merely show the difference of the several court's individual opinions and the ongoing moral debate.

But to say her view is wrong is to discount the view that maybe the COURTS themselves are wrong. If you say well, that is the law of the land - will you then honor the new law of the land against it - if it becomes the law of the land again - as it was before? Most likely not. So we are not really talking about LAW - which is what Christians have said all along. We are talking about HOW the law is made and is it MORAL?

When you say that Palin will outlaw abortion - that is not so. She favors overturning the Supreme court law which imposed it upon us all. But that in turn will send it back to the States - where EACH AND EVERY state will debate it for themselves. 

THAT'S where it was until more left leaning Judges took it upon themselves to IMPOSE it on us all. In the future - when it is again at the state level - I may choose or not choose to live in that state. Big difference - and I think it has nothing to do with poor judgment - but rather good morals.

But that's just me.

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

And finally - McCain selected someone who agreed with his abortion stance. Did Obama picking someone who agreed with his - show bad judgment as well?

Below is the abortion link on McCain's website - it's brief.

"""John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat."""

You can tell from this argument that the real issue is Judicial Balance - which he and many conservatives believe has been usurped - not only in the abortion debate - but many others as well. It is not a SINGLE issue - it is a comprehensive world view.

THE FULL DISCUSSION HERE:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/issues/95b1851

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

"""I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."""

Sarah Palin on Creationism

(Hardly sounds threatening)

I gave a thumbs up too.

:)

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Thank you all for not only voicing your opinions but doing so in such a respectful manner. I see points of agreement in many aspects and I'm so pleased we are all living in a country where we can do this.

thanks for the thumbs up...the score is creeping back up so I do suspect that most likely some traffic coming from outside sources, while much appreciated...they had nothing invested in the little community we have here and probably just let the thumbs down "rip." LOL That's the only explanation I can think of....doesn't matter, we're having a good time.

My problem with turning over Roe vs Wade - and I will admit I have not studied the process of thought about it in years....but I do not think it's wise to pit state against state and woman against law/doctor. The situation is working. There are plenty of organizations that offer choices for women right in their own neighborhoods. to put one state against another would have lawsuits out the whazooo...."How dare you entice our women to your state for a for profit procedure we have outlawed." and so it will go. Women will result to illegal and dangerous medical procedures....and Doctors will get involved and oh my god here we go again. Please. let's not have that debate again or go backward in time. No one is forced to have an abortion. no one is forced to have a child. Let the woman decide and the churches handle the right or wrong of it.

We are a nation -- one medical procedure should be legal everywhere if it's legal anywhere....now this is off the top of my head but I do not think in my gut to mess with the situation as it is -- would be a good thing. Who doees Palin think she is?? She has attended a church who made horrible remarks about jews....and more and more is coming out about her background...we'll just have to wait and see what the detail show.

If McCain is satisfied, let the debates begin, frankly, we all know no candidate is going to be able to do it all anyway.

I'm hoping we will look at each candidate..."candidly" and carefully...and go with our gut. Sometimes that's all you've got.

Jewels  says:
16 months ago

marisue, I can also feel what you're feeling. I have a similar gut feeling. I was actually relieved because I think that this is going to bite McCain on the arse. But having said this (yes I am pro Obama), what concerns me is the policies and I'm not really clear on either side. Though with the speeches so far I am not at all impressed with McCain.

Lets understand that America needs a big change. It's losing face badly and it will take a big turnaround to get it back where it likes to be. A superpower effects every other country that interacts with it, this is why I am interested in this election even though it's not my country. Who has the guts, tenacity, intelligence to get the USA back to moving forward and not backwards? Health policies, social security, employment, trade, poverty, debt recovery, and education. And of course international relations - should I have to say defence! I cannot for the life of me see Sarah Palin talking to the leaders of the world, though I doubt it would be worse than Bush's efforts.

It's still this facade I see anyway. The Leaders of both parties are very likely to be puppets anyway. We're talking personalities and citing the emotions of the public to get votes and this is a smokescreen. Your political arena is quite entertaining if nothing else. Smokescreens and whistles. What's really going on behind all this? Which party is going to repair allot of damage that your country has been drowning in, and how is the elected party going to effect the rest of the planet. America sneezes, the rest of the world unfortunately catches a cold. This may not be for very much longer if it doesn't get it's act together.

pgrundy  says:
16 months ago

Whoever wins this election will inherit the biggest mess in U.S. history since the years immediately following the Civil War. What troubles me is, what kind of person do I want running the country if we have a protracted severe recession or a collapse of financial markets and violence erupts in U.S. cities? Do I want someone whose views are progressive enough to institute public works projects to rebuild infrastructure and get food on people's tables? Or do I want someone who will declare martial law and start pepper spraying everybody in sight? (Hint: the first solution.)

McCain's status as a war hero, though admirable, doesn't qualify him to heal the rift between the super-rich and the rest of us---in fact he's voted for policies that make the rich richer over and over again. He's voted AGAINST bills that would provide more education, health care, and money for our returning Iraq veterans, while at the same time he voted FOR money to go to Exxon for free.

So, McCain is ok with just giving our tax money to the oil companies, now, while they make record profits, but he voted against Jim Webb's bill to expand the GI bill to include National Guardsman returning from Iraq. In my book, if you present yourself as a friend to our servicemen and women, but you vote against real help for them over and over again, that makes you a liar, no matter how heroic your past is.

I have similar feelings about Palin. If you claim your family should be left alone to deal with your unwed daughter's pregnancy in your own private way, but you think it's fine to force your personal views on other families dealing with the same issue, that makes you a hypocrite.

We have real problems right now in this country, huge ones. We can't really afford this dog and pony show.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Absolutely fantastic comments jewel, pgrundy, loozegear -- you are smokin' hot with the facts!!  Pam, you said exactly how I feel about McCain and Palin as well!!!  Palin having strong opinions is one thing....but when you are a public servant...it's not about you.  It's about the general good of the people   not what you believe your God is whispering in your ear about my life.   I am amazed at how some people don't see the great harm that turning back Roe vs Wade will do to our freedoms. 

Teaching any belief about religion and creation as fact in the schools...is a direct violation of separation of church and state.   Please, someone please reassure me we're not going to elect these two...and someone above stated that bush was elected twice and we should all remember that's questionable.  He was appointed the winner by Supreme Court stopping the count in Fla....and the Ohio exit polls in second election showed Kerry winning but it was Bush....with many officials and investigation indicating that and other states were stolen...

Yes we've got huge problems.....right here in  "river City"  (LOL   Music man has been on my mind today)...."OOOO  we got trouble..." 

Loozegear...too funny.

Prophecy...thanks for the link...we always need good information. 

Did anyone catch Rachel Maddow last night??  and other fact check shows??  Why would Palin stretch so many "decisions" she made that are so easily shown not to be true....and McCain...?  Well we already know he lies.  That "i'm for the vet" phrase makes me S I C K.    They both scare me for our constitution...and I want the community organizer, thank you.  At least I know he's for the average American on the ground!  and Foreign Leaders will talk to him and he will listen first and shoot later.....maybe much later-- after the FACTS (remember them?) are in ---so maybe never.

What a pair. I'm in despair.

Timothy C. Schewe  says:
16 months ago

Marysuewrites, if I hadn't actually read this stuff I would have thought you were trashing Obumma. "Vacuousness We Can Believe In"

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

William, exactly!  you make good points about a party's purpose as well as the Presidential candidate.  McCain is to blame!  He manipulated the choice, rather than put country first.  Terribly obvious.  Terrible decision.  No one can think that Palin's raising should take place on the job in today's world!  Very scary! 

thank you for your on point comments! 

Timothy, Obama is far from vacuousness....but I believe that applies to McCain and Palin, since they are deceiving us with their true purpose.  Obama has been forthcoming with his purpose...do you really want more of the last 8 years???  that's what this comes down to....more of the same?  It's interesting the Repubs are chanting "change" when it's themselves they will have to change "from." 

Unblievable.

t.keeley  says:
16 months ago

After watching Obama's speech on religion and its place in America, there's no doubt where he stands. While I can say he had some good points in that speech, I will highly disagree with him on what he plans to do in all respects. While I think politics and religion don't mix, certtainly not in this society, I'd have a hard time voting someone in who told me what I believe is rubbish and has no place in how I determine my lifestyle and choices. Hard pill to swallow, almost as hard as it is to have someone like Bush tell me HOW to live...

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

crash...you are saying what I also have read from cnn news sources...evidently they said "do this or else" --lots of news behind the scenes regarding this....I'm publishing a "Raisin' Palin" blog soon. 

My information about Obama is that he doesn't force religion on or off anyone...which is as it should be.  We can not go backwards on abortion.  It needs to be a medically approved procedure and leave the right or wrong of it to the PRIVATE SECTOR. 

We do not need religion creationism or evolution that leaves God out of it taught in the school.  Let religion be taught as an elective...as a broad subject and evolution from what we know as science...and LET THE PRIVATE SECTOR handle other points, fact or fiction.  Government does not need to be involved...they need to stay out of it entirely. 

Those two points alone are enuff reason not to vote for McCain/Palin.  There are dozens of other reasons in my opinion as well.

pgrundy  says:
16 months ago

McCain plans to extend health care benefits to more uninsured people by taxing the benefits of people who get health insurance through their employer. So if your employer currently pays for half of your health care and you pay the other half, for say, a total of $100 a paycheck or $200 total cost, under McCain your taxable income will go up $4200 a year--the total cost of your health care benefits. How does this help working people?

McCain has voted again and again to extend the tax cuts for the rich instituted by Bush, and actually wants to increase taxes on working people lucky enough to have health care at work. He voted AGAINST every bill that has come up in the past eight years that would extend benefits for Iraq war veterans. So, he's a war hero and got all the care HE needed, but screw these guys--that's how he has voted.

If you want spew bile about Obama, at least back it up. If you think McCain is out to help the ordinary guy--back it up. How will he help you? By telling stories about the Hanoi Hilton while you and your family lose your home?

People should check the facts and vote their interests, not personalities.

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

I'm not in complete agreement with McCain - but I can tell you BIGTIME - how his election will help me. I have 4 children. McCain is proposing to RAISE the Child Tax Exemption from $3500 to $7000. If you have children - you better pay attention to that!!

My taxable income will be Immediately reduced by $14,000.

From McCain's website:

MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUTS: John McCain Will Double The Personal Exemption For Dependents. John McCain believes the tax code should be less of a burden on those, whether they are mothers and fathers or single parents, who are trying to raise a family. He proposes to raise the personal exemption for each dependent from $3,500 to $7,000.

http://www.johnmccain.com/involving/petition.aspx?

allshookup  says:
16 months ago

t.keeley, Well said. I got the same feeling from the things he has said about religion. And from the church he has gone to for all those years and what they believe, which I would not call religion at all, he has no place in trying to tell me anything about how I am to live. From the stand he makes on abortion, that alone tells me so much about his morals (or lack thereof). The man said that if his daughters were to make a 'mistake' that it would be ok for them to have an abortion. So, he would be all for killing his own grandchildren. How can you vote for a person who feels that way? It is beyond me how people can listen to what he says and yet still support it. Where are the morals and values of this country? The morals and values this country was founded on?

t.keeley  says:
16 months ago

pgrundy, forgive me on this, I still don't know exactly what he's saying. If I somehow misinterpreted, my apologies. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE

What I see here is not anti-Christian, but there's some subtle areas that are more gey than anything. That's really what scares me is the political grey areas, and it doesn't matter the politicians either.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Thank you Jewels!! Beautifully stated...we do not need to be dictated to about god, creation, or morals that go beyond not harming others with our views. Churches, private organizations, have plenty of freedom to do all that is needed for the individual.....the best government will leave us alone to worship as we see fit....or not to worship. Both are crucial to solid freedom.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Thank you William!! =)) as far as I'm concerned, the last 8 years has given me a gut full of Repub's economic prowess and foreign relations expertise. "Fresh start" Repubs say?? without owning up to the mess they've made? But no "Fresh Start" with Obama? only Palin can be a "Fresh Start" ?? She doesn't even understand the basic constitutional right of separation of Church and State PLUS many other scarey issues such as starting states wars on abortion, talk about divisive!! I want nothing to do with raisin' Palin. She's got a lot to explain about the "birth" of her child; she has yet to properly answer the "Who's the mother" question and we might say that doesn't matter but it's a huge lie IF she's lying and why lie?? why not just produce the birth certificate where she gave birth?

Why lie about the plane being sold? Why lie about the bridge to "nowhere" which she was for until she was elected and it became politically advantageous to be against it...no big deal, lots of politicians change their minds....but why lie?

Why is McCain lying about this being his choice? Palin was forced on him or so the "buzz" is stating from within HIS OWN RANKS. They did not want Lieberman - thus the last minute switch his party forced on him. One only has to see his pained expression in the beginning when he was standing by her side to determine the BUZZ was true....

to that extent, I have another hub coming....lol she is a tangled web of deceit and I have to ask WHY??? and will America fall for it just to get a woman, any woman in the White House??

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

I meant to say - likely voters - not undecided.

Elliott Ness  says:
16 months ago

I just stumbled on to Hub pages and to this hub. It is so refreshing to read insightful comments from "average" Americans. Maybe there is still some faint glimmer of hope for our democracy.

The idea of a screwball like Pallin have control of the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world (or anything else for that matter) scare the hell out of me.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Thanks Tom, Elliott, and Staying Alive!! I appreciate your comments and reading this lengthy hub...what a lot of activity - a passionate subject on both sides. All views are welcome, and hopefully we make our vote count! The world needs a stronger nicer, America, and uh....so do the citizens!!

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Earth angel...thank you for your information!! It did help me understand....I'm glad you enjoyed the hub, it does have a life of it's own and I fully appreciate everyone's comments. Disagreeing is fundamental to our society and freedom...long may we have that right to debate what is "wrong."

thanks so much for your reading and comments!!=)

StayingAlive  says:
16 months ago

We come up with this stuff from their records.  McCain is now - this season - coming out against things he's vote in favor of, FOR YEARS!

Palin has lied about everything she has said, not to mention the very strange birth of her 5th child, for whom she has not produced a birth certificate. Now, one might say that's a family matter, uh, huh. So I'll leave her family alone if she'll leave the rest of the country's families alone, which she won't.

The whole point is, she does not tell the truth but because she's female, she's a breath of fresh air, no matter what she says??

Marisuewrites is "right", this is hysteria. Are we so eager for fresh air we'll swallow anything?

Let's not lower our standards. Bush is evidence of how hard that is on the nation and the world.

I'm with you Marisuewrites, I'm furious.

If we compare this nut to Margaret Thatcher it's because no one is looking with eyes wide open...that is so far-fetched I can't believe you said it.

This hockey mom has changed her mind and lied about every thing she's said she accomplished:

She was against lobbyists, until she hired one; she was against the Bridge to Nowhere until she was elected and it became so unpopular and was already nixed so she jumped on that band wagon; now the Bridge to Nowhere money has funded the Road to nowhere, ending up on an island where the bridge would have begun; She sold the plane on ebay, until she didn't and it was sold to a private buyer for a loss and to whom the state still owes $50,000; she thinks she's got a hotline to God and is doing his will with every decision she makes; that's entirely scarey and sounds like Bush's war motivations.

"God" help us if this radical gets into office; I'd rant about McCain but his record rants enough if anyone looks!!

Good rant, Marisuewrites and continue to speak out against this McCain Palin ticket.

People, don't confuse fresh air with filtered smog.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

we are in a mess, for sure and I just can't believe people might vote for McCain just cuz of Palin...she's even more reason not to vote for him...if people THINK. LOL

Earth Angel  says:
16 months ago

I LOVE this Hub!! Thanks again to Marisue for taking a risk on a sensitive subject and putting it all out there for us to learn and grow from!!

I am always amazed at how we can witness the very same exact things, like a Presidential Convention speech, and come away with such opposing opinions!!

My best girlfriend and I watched Michele Obama together!! I was touched by what I perceived as her authenticity and was brought to tears several times by her sincere comments!! My best friend laughed, rolled her eyes and concluded she was the most elitist woman she had ever seen!!

We were both absolutely shocked, and apalled, by the other's interpretations!! We have been lovingly debating it ever since!!

An important fact to keep in mind is that we all see the world through the lens of our own experiences!! Those experiences often contribute to each of us seeing the world as a "fearful" or a "hopeful" place!! None of us is completely right or wrong!! There are some, however, whose lenses are thicker than others!! Or just need a newer prescription!!

Another important fact to keep in mind is some of us vote according to how it will benefit others as well as ourselves!! My beloved Dad, until the day he died, voted only according to how it benefited him!! He thought if everyone did it that way, we would be a better country!!??

Some vote according to just a single issue!! Education!! Or Abortion!! Or Medical Insurance!! Or the Environment!! It is just too hard for some people to juggle a hundred issues at a time!! I agree, it is hard, but I also agree, we have no choice this time!! As an electorate, we need to wake up and learn how all the pieces are intertwined!!

Some vote according to looks!! My dearest Mom, until the day she died, voted for the best looking!! She adored Clinton!! (Not my taste!!) She felt that beauty was of supreme importance and thought if we just got back to the days of JFK, Jackie and Camelot, the world would fall into place!!

Yep, I am the egg that rolled away from the nest and grew up not among my kind!! Yet I wouldn't give up my broad range of experiences/challenges for anything!!

A lot can happen, and be revealed, over the next 7 weeks!! Let's keep open hearts, alert minds and aware spirits as we all fully participate in this messy democracy of ours!!

Blessings always, Earth Angel!!

StayingAlive  says:
16 months ago

Prophecy, one is not required to wash out one's mouth with soap or anything else to question. To question is our right. I question; she needs to answer; it is about honesty and reliability and hers is in serious doubt. If she provides a birth certificate from a documented and verifiable source; then I will move on to the next question. We did not question Bush enough....we have lost priceless children, husbands and brothers and sisters in my view needlessly; this was not a hunt for Bin Laden, and Al Qaeda was not in Iraq and we were NOT sure we had verifiable information about weapsons of mass destruction; we could have waited - instead we rushed to support our President and he betrayed us.

Liars of small things in leaders are liars of big things and we can't afford it again. It is my right as a voting American to question anyone running and asking for my vote. My vote is a precious thing. I am appalled by your insult. You may blindly accept, I do not. She has been too mysterious and misleading over many issues; therefore, as a thinking person on the planet who could be wrong, but still thinking, I ask questions. Would that more did.

be nice.

NYLady  says:
16 months ago

Really enjoyed this Hub and feel as angry as you do. You might be interested in my HUB about the Pew Center's recent survey -- do men or women have more leadership qualities? http://hubpages.com/hub/Are-Men-or-Women-Better-Le Just a little obvious plug there.

StayingAlive  says:
16 months ago

I'm ok with it, I question lots of things. It's the way I learn. :0

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

So you think it is normal and natural in the course of a campaign to question a Woman about whether she faked being pregnant while she was Governor - in order to cover up her supposed daughter's pregnancy. Without any proofs; Despite convincing photographic and video evidence to the contrary?

And several of you defend that. As normal. Reasonable and balanced. And try to convince us that it is her we need to be protected from and not your choice.

I'm sorry I questioned the reasonableness of it. I must have lost my mind.

Wash my mouth out with soap.

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/09/01/sarah-palin

The Philadelphia Zoo provided these photos in July 2008 when the family visited there - 2 months after the supposed lie was not born. Scroll down and you will see Sarah AND her daughters. You tell me which one looks like they just had a non lie baby?

MrMarmalade  says:
16 months ago

Now if Frank was Marisue,

The Scene would flow, like this.

They have just been installed in the White House, as ailing King and hockey wielding mum, She sits with next to nothing on, whilst the sickly King coughs and splutters to an early demise. Little does he know what his wonderful creation has in store for him.

Suddenly her hockey stick lashes out across his other exposed shin.

He said "Et tu Brutus'

"Now you have done it. I am going to resign, I can not able stand your brutality anymore. We have been here two days and you have broken both my legs in the last two days. I can not bear to think what the next 8 years will be like. You can have it all to yourself. I am sorry I have inflicted you on the American Public. They deserve more than this." " Goodbye cruel World"

I await your next description of life after Mr. Mclean- McIgnorant.

It must come soon., Please.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

PT, I will repeat, this is about issues and character and I do not like what McCain Palin stand for...while I'm thinking about reasons not to vote for the woman, I came across the pg issue and questioned it. Her being the mother or not being the mother is not the issue. Her rejected sex education when an issue in her own family clearly would have benefited from it; claiming to fire the chef when she didn't; claimed to control spending when she didn't, claimed to sell the plane on ebay, when she didn't, comes out against lobbying when she hired one of the most expensive ones, it just goes on and on and allshookup, you are the one ignoring the real issues.

If you vote for someone who is against murdering babies how great that sounds until I'm raped and get pg from it and then forced to have it because of your ideology that has now trampled on my life and the life of others.

What you profess is a personal choice and is not something to force on others. Wrong country my fellow citizen, and yes, wrong hub for you, but that doesn't mean we or "I" am "wrong."

Disagree if you want, that's what this country allows unless your Palin, who would force her personal beliefs into law.

I defend my right to question, and if some of the questions I have are answered then we move on. I have been honest and stated that regardless of her answer on the pg list; she's wrong on the issues that affect freedom. Read my many comments above, or hang on to your opinion, regardless of the facts...

Palin's not truthful, and she is the perfect choice for McCain, he's wrong on the issues too. They have that in common.

I agree allshookup, we should be informed about the candidates. I shudder that people with your view actually think you're right. Your god, your belief, my home invaded. But it's all ok because someone said God before they took away my freedom.

I am a Christian, and know full well that the only way that is protected is for the government to continue to stay out of the way and not mix church and state. Medical procedures need to be just that...homes and churches need to continue to be where these issues are discussed and families strengthened.

I don't like their stand on war, economy, personal rights, medical care, and I don't choose people who stretch the truth everytime they open their mouth to be in leading positions.

Allshookup, you have a right to your opinion, and yet you attack all those in this hub who have expressed theirs dismissing their views because they're Democrats. How ignorant. Get real. Be thankful for two parties...one is not evil and one good.

"Opinion" is what the result of weighing information is called. I have news for you; what you have is an opinion -- it's rather egotistical to think yours is based on fact and others if they differ is not. You have tried to insult everyone on this thread as insignificant - many comments are much more intelligent and well researched than anything I have said,

Because I support Obama, I and others are less informed than you? I have stated many times my very respectful belief that all opinions are welcome here...that should mean that you treat mine as well with the respect you seem to think only you and PT deserve.

That's the very thinking I am against, no wonder you are for Palin....you think alike....your voice matters, you have a special hot line to heaven, you, you, you and forget the rest of the world.

I would be upset if it were not so obvious how immature that line of opinion is...

I repeat, all views are welcome here. But even the highest of educated view, is just that a view, an opinion....and we all have one. All votes are based on opinion from "facts" as they see them or in spite of facts as they see them. Either way, we are exercising our right and grateful for it.

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

thank you Sir Dent, you have my greatest respect....you have provided good information on both ticket choices. 

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

PT, allshookup, go here: http://www.dailykos.com/main/2 of course, you won't and if you did, it won't make a difference, because as you seek information, you won't read that which is different than what you already think. There is a lot of factual information at that link. FACTS...and then opinions formed on the FACTS.

open minds is only what the rest of us should have...those of us scared to lose our freedoms of choice and personal belief.

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

Marisuewrites - I hope I can impose myself once more on your patience in allowing me to visit on your Hub's Comments section. I have researched several of the things you mention here. I like ORIGINAL SOURCE documents as much as possible. So when I read claims on a Blog - or political show - I listen to where they got their info from and go there to see for myself. I have tracked down the original story on the Jet plane and the sales events leading up to it here: ANCHORAGE NEWS - dated April 22, 2007:

Here's the link:

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/background/story/20

I also read several Liberal/Progressive websites to see how they framed the question. Essentially they said - it was practical to begin with, didn't cost the government much money compared to its expenses, and that the former Governor didn't use it that much. They also said that the selling price was well below market and that Sarah lost the state approximately $600,000 on the deal. There was more but that's enough.

So, I contacted a Private Jet sales company and asked what their commission was. Then I researched standard commission rates for Private Jet sales. The rates are 2%-6% (the usual fee is 4%) The smaller fee is for jets in the 20 million range. The higher for Jets in the 200k to 4 mill range.

I have also sold 50 mill worth of things myself - in many venues including oil and gas, real estate and antiquities - the three fields of my life. I have never sold anything within 2 years of buying it - for the same amount I paid. That is very rare. When you buy something and then sell it - you are no longer in the market and the price is affected. Furthermore, when you buy - you do not have to pay a commission - but when you sell you do.

Also, to list something on EBAY is very cheap - and if an item does not sell - you get almost all your fees back except a small listing fee. I have sold $10,000 this month on Ebay myself - I have a 100% feedback - and I have been on there since 1998. I normally wouldn't mention these things but you set the bar pretty high.

Ok, lets do some math. The former Governor paid 2.6 mill for the plane.

At the time of the first sale it was appraised at 2.45 mill.

Sarah ultimately sells the plane for 2.1.

The plane costs $62,000 per every three months to keep or $250,000 per year - even if it isn't used. She has one year to sell it and if she can't it's overpriced.

It was origimally listed for 2.5 so if it HAD sold on Ebay - no one would have complained and everyone would have eaten Moose.

So I just went to EBAY and went to Ebay Motors and made a listing for an aircraft asking for 2.4 million dollars in a fixed price sale. There is no charge for the listing. It is FREE!!!

If someone were to bid on my aircraft - I would have been charged $132. 

According to the Newspaper - it was listed 4 times - and did not sell. But that's not uncommon - 85% of RESERVE auctions on EBAY DON'T sale. That's not the point. The point is that it costs nothing to try at that level of sale. Sounds frugal to me. And Sarah had attempted to sell the plane AT FULL APPRAISED MARKET VALUE. It wasn't a deal. You probably wouldn't have hurried to it either.

Had Sarah attempted to sell the Jet with a typical broker - the fee would have been approximately 4/5% of 2.5 mill which would have been - 100-$125,000.

After taking a shot on EBAY - a really sensible thing to do - Sarah negotiated a remarkable  deal with a broker. She got an astonishing commission rate of ONLY 1.49% - and paid a measely commission of only $31,290. (the cost of keeping the plane for 6 weeks)

So what did the people of Alaska think before Progressives/Liberals/Democrats needed a villian?

Here's some quotes:

Former Gov. Frank Murkowski bought the jet, which cost the state about $2.6 million, over the protests of the Legislature and used it to fly around the state, sometimes mixing campaign errands with government business. (that's why Sarah beat him. He was tainted and so was the jet - this is from Wikipedia - look:

{{On March 4, 2008, Murkowski's former chief-of-staff, Jim Clark, pleaded guilty to one felony count of conspiracy after federal investigators discovered Clark had asked oil-field company Veco to illegally pay $68,550 on polls for Murkowski's failed 2006 re-election campaign. Murkowski, Clark's indictment noted, was the only candidate who supported an oil tax and gas pipeline plan that Veco backed}}

After he defied almost everyone to acquire it, the jet became a political albatross for Murkowski.

One of her campaign promises was to sell the plane and she's been trying to unload it for months. 

Heckmann suggested the asking price of $2,450,000, based on the current jet market.

The state's definitely not going to give this plane away. If that was the case, then they would have sold it on eBay Heckmann said. (the broker who sold 1800 planes before Sarah's)

Meanwhile, the state is stuck making quarterly payments of about $62,000 on the Westwind II. So is the state sick of dealing with this bird?

I don't know about anyone else Spencer said. You don't want to keep making payments on something you're not using, he said. l'll be happy when it sells. I'll be a happy guy.

****

So - it was a campaign promise - and the people elected her to do it. She tried to sell it frugally but not cheap - she worked a great deal - and got the job done. So just exactly what was your complaint. Now please, just for mooseburgers - compare this FACTUAL story when nobody cared - to this story from a liberal paper 2 days ago when everybody needed to.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/20 

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

Indeed Susan it is. Camille Paglia no friend to Conservatives and Left Wing columnist states plainly in her Salon article today, why. (Salon Magazine is no friend either).

It's quite a frank admission that what befalls the Democrats is not Sarah Palin - it's a much deeper problen. Quite an interesting read...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/09/10/pal

(quote) -

What in the world possessed the Obama campaign to let their guy wander like a dazed lamb into a snake pit of religious inquisition like Rick Warren's public forum last month at his Saddleback Church in California? That shambles of a performance -- where a surprisingly unprepared Obama met the inevitable question about abortion with shockingly curt glibness -- began his alarming slide.

(quote)

After that extravaganza, marking the 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s epochal civil rights speech on the Washington Mall, I felt calmly confident that the Obama campaign was going to roll like a gorgeous juggernaut right over the puny, fossilized McCain. The next morning, it was as if the election were already over. No need to fret about American politics anymore this year. I had already turned with relief to other matters.

(quote)

But what of Palin's pro-life stand? Creationism taught in schools? Book banning? Gay conversions? The Iraq war as God's plan? Zionism as a prelude to the apocalypse? We'll see how these big issues shake out. Right now, I don't believe much of what I read or hear about Palin in the media. To automatically assume that she is a religious fanatic who has embraced the most extreme ideas of her local church is exactly the kind of careless reasoning that has been unjustly applied to Barack Obama, whom the right wing is still trying to tar with the fulminating anti-American sermons of his longtime preacher, Jeremiah Wright.

(quote)

Hence I have always frankly admitted that abortion is murder, the extermination of the powerless by the powerful. Liberals for the most part have shrunk from facing the ethical consequences of their embrace of abortion, which results in the annihilation of concrete individuals and not just clumps of insensate tissue. The state in my view has no authority whatever to intervene in the biological processes of any woman's body, which nature has implanted there before birth and hence before that woman's entrance into society and citizenship.

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

I don't remember saying that anywhere - or even - implying it. If I overlooked it - please point it out to me.

In the meantime, you brought up an airplane. We discussed it. Are you saying you don't acknowledge it was a little over the top?

You brought up Sarah's (and millions of others) view on Intelligent Design/Creationism. I discussed that Highly contentious issue by saying the world's most notorious atheist now believes there is a God. He does not believe in any monotheistic God though. That even takes the sting out of the Religion of it.  He debunks Dawkins the premiere evolutionary atheist - and lays out a very rational explanation why it is Imperative to believe in God - both Scientifically and Philosophically. (and by extension teach the philosophical and scientific basis for one - an intelligent designer. He was himself partially persuaded by Design arguments the very arguments you believe are wrong - and extreme)

You didn't even acknowledge the import of it.

You mentioned abortion - and I took it head on. I showed you where it is a moral issue not legal. You didn't even discuss the subject.

I posted Camille Paglia's column today and even selected the quote dealing with abortion. The one where she - a committed Feminist - clearly says that even though she believes in the woman's right to choose - she admits abortion is murder and says there is no logical way out of the issue. That's bold talk for a two-eyed liberal woman.

There are some of us that think the fate of 40,000,000 aborted babies should not rest on a 4 to 5 Supreme Court decision. But that's not an EXTREME position - I wouldn't think. Especially when one of abortion's and Feminism's staunchest advocates agrees on the murder part - as recently as this morning. If it's extreme - then liberalism is more so - they have the weight of the babies on their side.

I am happy to discuss any of the other comments Palin has said - if you wish. Pick one. If she is wrong like the Chef thing - I'll say it. I don't know anything about it. But I guess I'll check it out. Who knows maybe I can learn something. Seems like a weighty topic.

I also believe in guns. All our forefathers did. Good company.

I believe in oil exploration. Oil made us what we are. No doubt.

I believe in regulated hunting.

I believe Israel was prophesied to come back into their ancient land. Seems pretty black and white to me. " in the last days Jerusalem will be the center of the world" "I will cause a great controversy there."

I believe Gays can change if they want to. I've seen people change to become gay. And I've watched em change back - whatever that means. I'm in the Antique business and have many Gay associates and several friends. I've had gay business partners. I believe gays have the right to peruse freedom as I. But I do not believe my child should be morally educated in public school to believe what I do not.

The founding Fathers were perceptive enough NOT to cause the Puritans and the Shakers to swear by an oath - even though they required an oath to office from everyone else. They got it - that the faith of the believer is just as important as the needs of the State. There's good gravy in that history. Have we really lost our compass that badly where we must demand the "rights" of one group over another's "right" not to have it? Especially on subjects of such a deep, personal and spiritual nature?

If the Founding Fathers had the common sense to not make Religious people swear by oaths which their beliefs condemned - and yet they could still stand in office as equals - can we as the heirs of the Fathers not have the same sense?; the sense not to force spiritual people to teach their children that cutting up your private parts is normal? Is it not enough that we believe in equal rights for gays - the real issue - without having to believe in equal views - ensconced in law? (as the Transgender Laws require)

Must we really embrace the notion of one-sex bathrooms to accommodate equality? How many rights are we to acknowledge before there are no more rights? Do my questions seem extreme or are they rather - merely reactions to extremism?

Just because we sit on opposite sides of the fence marisue - doesn't mean we both have to paint it white.

I appreciate your hub. It raises issues and we need to talk a lot more about issues. pt

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

I did not respond to you point by point because I saw no "point" in it.  LOL 

I too, believe abortion is a moral issue, and a medical procedure that should not be outlawed, let the families handle moral issues, let the churches educate spiritually in that area, let the doctor's perform requested medical services and let society spend more money in preventing unwanted pregnancies.  Keep the women in good health, let their decisions be theirs and their families.

I do not think my statement and questions about the plane are over the top.  She miss stated the issue and continues to do so.

I am not opposed to scientific information about the world's existence being taught.  I am opposed to one single view being taught as fact only because who is to decide what that view will be?  Let the science be heard, cautiously, as even that changes before our eyes.  Let NOT Palin's views be forced upon any of us because if she can, than even scarier views can slip into our educational system.  All I ask, is to keep church and state separate.  I don't believe Palin wants that.

Normally I wouldn't focus on VP so much, but mccain's health/age makes that necessary.

What you say has been debunked, has not.  It is still very much in the news by well respected analysts.  I resent your attitude that only your research matters.  Research is important on both sides and both sides have merit. 

While her baby may be her baby, it is only a question I had, not an issue. 

I let it become an issue as you kept bringing it up and I kept responding...let's put the baby to rest.

I have read and read and read both sides, and do not see anyone showing that Palin has accurately stated anything she's talked about in this campaign.  McCain says he hasn't authored pork barrel and is screaming against it when he has voted for over 12000 bills with it attached totaling over 144 billion bucks, and he has requested at least 2 special pork attachments issues that would benefit the University of Arizona...

http://anamericanday.com/?p=93

We could debate this forever, PT, I really think you'll not convince me and I hardly think you're convincing anyone, but perhaps so.

My research works for me and I have many sources I depend on for information; my views have plenty of company.

I appreciate your input.  I also submit mine.  McCain has the wrong idea for America, he's worse than Cheney when it comes to his views on War, and Palin Pales in her ability to understand the nation's problems. 

We have a few weeks to decide, I hope everyone will consider the choice for our country and vote carefully.  Let's keep all the freedoms we can; it's so hard to get them back once they're gone.

Audacious  says:
16 months ago

I’ll bet the founding Fathers never imagined the day would come when murdering a baby in a mother’s womb would be considered a “medical procedure.” Regardless of the outcome of this election, that right will not be removed.

I also find it baffling that many of the women who demand the right to murder the unborn cannot understand how someone would kill an animal for food. In most cases, the abortion is far more painful than the humane killing of a game animal- but that fact slips by the wayside.

SusanBonfiglio  says:
16 months ago

I know that everyone has very strong feelings about abortion but in this election, there are so many issues to look at. Our country is facing finacial collapse, the situation in Afganistan is getting worse, India and Pakistan and Iran. An energy crisis that can do us in or be the next phase of our industrial revolution with the creation of green jobs, a school system that can't keep up with the rest of the world and so on....

I know that the culture wars that divide the red states and blue states appear to be coming back, but let's look at the issues that affect The United States of America. If we don't, America will be in for the shock of it's life.

I am hoping that in this election, people will not vote against their economic self interest AGAIN like they have for the past 8 years. The culture issues are the Republicans way of getting you to vote against your economic self interest.

Look at what's happening.

McCain is running as a Maverick and the anti Bush.

But let's look at the facts.Sarah Palin's speechwriter was George Bush'sMcCain hired Steve Schmidt to take over the day to day operations of the McCain campaign. He is assisted by Mike McDonald, fellow veteran of the Bush-Cheney campaigns.

Other Bush loyalists on the McCain team include the campaign manager, Terry Nelson, communications director, Brian Jones, media advisor, Mark McKinnon.Chuck Larson a major Bush fundraiser has been working with McCain.McCain also hired Mark McKinnon, Russell Schriefer and Stuart Stevens,the team that ran advertisements against McCain that he said distorted his record in 2000.

McCain also hird the firm that made the advertisements responsible for the John Kerry Swift Boat ads.

Is this change we can believe in?

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

I know McCain's judgment on these issues...you discussed

""the situation in Afganistan is getting worse, India and Pakistan and Iran""

But I don't know Obama's. I haven't kept up with them. What does Obama suggest for the resolution of these conflicts? What do you suggest?

marisuewrites  says:
16 months ago

Susan I continue to respect your research and comments.  PT, I know you also research your views.

I believe that many people are for Palin because of who they think she is; or who they want her to be; not for what facts show she really is.

People who want to be for a "christian" are going to support her no matter what she truly has done, or what she says, even if it's not true.  They just blindly support her.  Sometimes the facts just don't mean much when people crave a good person -- they'll see one regardless of the true picture.  Been there...I've been blinded before.

I'm going to write a short hub about "blindsight."  It is something I know a little about, being talking eyes for my blind mother; parenting hundreds of abused kids who built their fantasy parent, no matter the truth, watching abused women trying to rationalize their spouse's behavior, watching mothers of sexually abused kids accept their husbands version and reject their kids; I've been in the field of "blindsight" for over 20 years - I know the symptoms of seeing what we want to see...creating 20/20 vision where there is no vision or even a hint of light.

Many women want Palin to be their heroine.  They refuse to hear her own words, they refuse to see McCain's record in voting and in policy making, even in earmarking - he rants against it but has voted for bills stuffed with pork over 12700 times. 

People see and hear what they want; we all do.  Acceptance is a strange bedfellow.  I don't understand how facts are overlooked, but I'm sure I've done it myself.  I don't know the full answers of our nation's problems.  But neither do most of us....but if I know my name, I know we cannot go for 4 more years of the Republicans in the White House.  They just don't have the right answers for the problems they have helped create.

Listen carefully voters.  Listen to what the candidates are saying and look at what they have done and weigh the difference.

Don't be fooled.  Be careful.  Be wise.  Thank you all for your continued comments on this great subject.  Agree or not, we are all Americans and thinking individuals and that counts.  (Some are obviously from other countries and I welcome their views of our situations, they often are very objective and keen with their insight!!)

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

Hello Susan - I will take some time but will answer all your opinions. First, the notion that McCain has moved ahead of Obama soley because of Palin. I think you have forgotten the polls BEFORE McCain even mentioned her. In fact - one week before McCain picked Palin - he had moved ahead of Obama - for the first time in months - even after Obama picked his VP nominee. This poll is 3 days AFTER Obama made his selection. (Gallup - is the most accurately rated poll)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109834/Gallup-Daily-Bou

So once again, in spite of the people in small towns being ignorant of Obama's policies, Palin who wasn't in the picture at all, after Obama had the nomination for 3 months, selected his VP, made himself known at many forums, 100's of interviews - despite running in the worst economy in modern history, against the most corrupt President ever - Obama can only manage to be 3% BEHIND - because Republican's are ingenious at deceiving common Americans?

I'm not buying it. I still rather think it has little to do with McCain's judgment - personal or professional - but rather - Obama's policies which the people understand all too well.

I'll look at your links...

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

Never the less - if what you are saying is true - Obama should be up by leaps and bounds - and there should not be statistical ties at all.

This post is accurate to within +/- 3%

:)

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

Susan - concerning Palin; in trying to understand what is real and what is imagined - I honestly believe it is almost impossible to do in this HIGHLY CHARGED political environment. I've spent hours reading about Larry Persily - the former Anchorage Daily News Editorial Editor - who went to work for Palin in Washington DC - in late 2007. He is the darling of the "Let's Get Sarah Palin fan Club." 

After looking the guy over real good to see if he has a beef with her - I think he does. Every Liberal Magazine, Radio show, TV, and newspaper has printed his remarks about her as if it's the Bible. In their rush to slay her - it is unlikely many did the research I have.

First off.

The man has had 5 jobs in 5 years.He has contributed to the DNCHe was formerly Editorial Editor for the ADN (Anchorage Newspaper) a staunch liberal organ - which has been against Palin since she was runing for office. Persily's opinions are hardly balanced - or unbiased.

I think Palin hired him to go to Washington DC in May 07 to get him off her back as editor for the admittedly "Progressive" paper. Persily went to work with John Katz who happens to be Palin's attorney. So if he was upset with her, or Katz, or just trying to get his Editorial job back - who knows - he quit after only 7 months in DC.

Do a search on his name and you will see for the last week he is the main source for all the quotes about her. In my mind, hardly a reliable source for objectivity.

Concerning pork - Palin walked into a monster situation in Alaska. With only 600k pop - it has always been the most sustained State in the Union. I've posted a couple of articles among the many I read while searching Persily. You tell me how you'd clean up this mess after only 16 months in office? A lot of it is still there.

She may not be everything she appears to be - but I can tell you for sure - she's not everything the press says she is either. Not even close.

In 7 days the press have dug up more trash on her than on Obama and Biden combined in 10 years. I wonder if they have really vetted their sources - or in their haste to preserve their favorite candidate - grabbed whatever they could.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_20_

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/113835

 http://nomeak.blogspot.com/2007/04/one-by-one.html

Prophecy Teacher  says:
16 months ago

I was reading today when I came across this article about Obama's Harvard years. I thought it was quite an achievement that Obama was the first black president and editor of the prestigous Harvard Law Review - considered the best in the world. I listed it lavishly in my comparison about Obama and McCain in one of my HUBS.

But now I'm having to re-think it.

This article asks the question why did Obama not mention this very high honor at his Convention two weeks ago? One of his life's highest marked events. That got my attention. Seems he would have. He is a politician after all. It wasn't in the biographical video he showed, nor did Michelle mention it. Odd, huh? Such a seemingly remarkable feat - and nothing.

Anyway - here's the link and a very interesting article - it's to a conservative site -

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vie

To me this seems much more sinister than many of the things listed above.

 In this note for the third volume of the 1990 Harvard Law Review, he argued against any limits on abortion, citing the government's interest in

"preventing increasing numbers of children from being born into lives of pain and despair."

Susan, you could say I was born into a life of pain and despair. But I survived it. I was born 2 months premature, was sent to an orphanage for 3 yrs - when I was 6 - my mother was commited to a mental institution for Schizophrenia - I was raised by an abusive father who beat us all the time. All 4 of us children left home before we were 16 - and none of us finished High School.

Sad story - but we made it and all of us are doing fine. Obama would have wanted to save me from the pain and despair. 

The New York Times interviewed Obama when he received the coveted position - here's the only quote from the interview in their article:

On his goals in his new post, Mr. Obama said: ''I personally am interested in pushing a strong minority perspective. I'm fairly opinionated about this."

Later, Obama meets Michelle and joins Jeremiah Wrights's church which holds the same views. Surely, that was no accident.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0

Georgiakevin  says:
16 months ago

I agree with everything you said. It amazes me that people who support that McCain ticket can ignore all that that the last 8 years have wrought on us I believe that people can fool themselves in to believing anything if they try hard enough.....sad isn't it?

SusanBonfiglio  says:
15 months ago

PT, you are getting cynical. Perhaps given the "elitest charges" McCain has made, Obama didn't want to talk about being made the first African American editor of the Harvard Law Review. You know, even if the claims of the article are correct, which I don't believe, he did not have to be chosen for the editor of the Law Review. It is a huge honor and following your line of thinking, there must have been several other African American candidates that were more qualified.

In fact in the NY Times article, black enrollment was record high, so they obviously had several qualified candidates. Yet they still chose Obama.

What exactly is your point about Obama wanting to push a strong minority perspective for the Law Review? I would imagine that each of the minority editors brought a perspective that was different than the white male perspective that reflected the law review for so many years.

Don't we have anything more current to discuss?

Prophecy Teacher  says:
15 months ago

My point was simple. It'a major achievement regardless how it came about. But he does not want to talk about it at all - as part of his qualification for President? That's spooky.

and the best you can offer is this...

Because he doesn't want to brag????? Can we talk?

He doesn't want to talk about it because it opens the doors to everything he said. and he said alot of things.

And the article is from the New York Times. If it's Liberal - they can be trusted.

SusanBonfiglio  says:
15 months ago

PT...not just because it's the Times. I have many friends who have gone to Harvard Law and have told me what a huge deal it is to be editor of the Law Review and of the culture of the school.

The problem isn't the law review... The problem is all of the issues we are facing. The Republicans want to make this about law review, the lipstick comment, and other petty claims....not treating Sarah Palan with "deference." She can't have it both ways....Hillary didn't demand deference when she was running for President.

These are serious times and call for serious discussions. The reason the Republicans are using these tactics which they are so good at...they know they can't get elected on their platform. And since the Roverian team is running this campaign...where is the change and reform?

SusanBonfiglio  says:
15 months ago

Just found this very interesting article on the msnbc.com site. It is an article from The Washington Post, "Palin Cut Own Duties As Mayor of Wasilla."

It takes a look at her background as mayor of Wasilla and what her actual duties were.

Just an article to add to the discussion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26695078/

Prophecy Teacher  says:
15 months ago

I read the MSNBC article - thanks for the link. But isn't that the station that demoted their top two commentators on the Presidential Election last week because of Blatant on air BIAS. Yep that's them.

:)

I ground my way through it though.

Truthfully, the CNN interview takes every one of those issues head on. Interviewed all those people except the museum folk. Be sure to watch it. It's on every night. CNN did a great balanced job. I was impressed - so unlike them. (I guess they want to interview her)

Anyway - I like the statement below better. There's nothing like unbiased truth.

http://www.johnmccain.com/videolanding/biden1.htm?

Prophecy Teacher  says:
15 months ago

If I appear arrogant - I apologize.

SusanBonfiglio  says:
15 months ago

PT, thanks for the apology...it has been heating up. And while I did find that article on the MSNBC site, the article is from The Washington Post.

I respect your opinion and your right to disagree...but you must understand, from my point of view and for so many...the Republicans have hijacked an election and played dirty tricks for two elections now...And ran the country into the ground. Let's not forget we had a surplus. This election is too important. What happens here will have huge ramifications for decades to come.

I know what you are going to counter back with, all I am saying is the same thing Marisue said, emotions are running high. You and I and everyone who is writing on this hub is providing a service. If there is one undecided voter who sees this discussion, it can if we keep it respectful, we can help someone make up their mind. I know you like myself take citizenship very seriously....so...let's discuss on,

marisuewrites  says:
15 months ago

I'm listening to all of the candidates own words...that is what matters in the end...and do the words jive with their actions. I hope the best ticket for the country wins...we can't afford anything less.

Thank you for your lively participation in the process.!! It is valued. Marisue

John Juneau  says:
15 months ago

Almost off the subject on this, but Chef Jeff, I have a mind challenging thought for you.

Maybe God created everything about 10 minutes ago and placed all our memories in our heads and we just think we have been here all this time. I don't believe that, of course, but the point is, the Creator could have done it anyway He chose in any time frame He chose; or, since God exists outside of time, He could have created time last. Try to grasp that. It is a brain twister.

John Juneau  says:
15 months ago

There are no significant connections between Geo. Bush and John McCain.  I respect Bush but he has not surrounded himself with the best team (like Paulson--he is scary).  John McCain is too liberal for me in some areas.  In fact, most of the nation's leaders and virtually all of the media (who want very much to control our thinking) have moved so far to the left, that people like JFK would be considered conservatives today.

Though I feel that it is expedient to stay registered with a political party, I would best be described as a Constitutionalist.  Much of The Constitution is ignored today by nearly all the political parties and their leaders.  The 10th amendment, especially, has become essentially invisible to them.  If the 10th amendment was followed, I estimate that about 50% of the extensive federal programs would not exist.  Unfortunately, I believe there is no going back.  We are a nation in decline and people choose not to see it.

Storytellersrus  says:
15 months ago

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2 You'll love this, marisue...

chrissyks  says:
14 months ago

Very lively and well-written hub! You mentioned Governor Palin's son with a disability. I wrote a hub that may be of interest:

http://hubpages.com/hub/5-Reasons-Why-Sarah-Palin-