Mormons are Christians
65Mormons are Christians
I am a Mormon and I have never understood why Mormons are not considered Christian. If you are at all familiar with the Mormon beliefs or have even known a practicing Mormon, it is easy to see that our whole religion is centered around Christ. The name 'Mormon' is just a nickname, due to the name of one of our books of scripture: The Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ. The full name is 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints'.
Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior; He died for us so that we could one day return to live with God. He lead a perfect life and showed us the example of how we should live our lives. Following Christ's example is what we teach in our meetings. We strive to live better lives and to do good in this world.
If you want to know more about Mormons, go to the website: mormon.org, or lds.org.
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Okay but Mormons also believe in prophets like John Smith. There are lot's of forms of christianity and if you want to make it clear what it is to be Mormon or LDS then why don't you create a hub about that.
I don't know who 'John Smith' is, are you thinking of Joseph Smith? Yes, we believe in prophets. Just like all of the prophets in the bible....Abraham, Issac, Noah, Isaiah, to name a few. The difference is that we believe in living prophets too. We believe that God loves the people on earth as much now as he did in ancient times. therefore he has prophets on earth now to guide us, just as they had prophets then. However, we do not worship prophets. We worship God and Jesus Christ. That makes us as much a Christian religion as any other people that worship Christ.
I have close family who are mormon, and although it may seem like they are Christian, they are not. Mormons do not believe in the trinity which is a foundational belief of the Christian faith. Also Mormons focus on salvation by works opposed to being saved by faith. In addition to this, mormons do not believe in a 'hell,' and believe that if you have proven yourself worthy on earth, then when you die you can become a god governing over your own planet. Thus Mormons believe in polytheism, but is nothing close to Christianity.
Yes, I agree. Mormons also believe things that are not Biblically supported. Things like Jesus was married and had children. Or Jesus was not born from a virgin. They also believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers with us. The one belief that blew me out of the water, is that they believe there is a heavenly father AND a heavenly mother...These beliefs make me greatly question the purity of the Mormon theology.
We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. From my understanding, that makes up the Godhead or Trinity. The difference with our beliefs about the Godhead and most other Christian religions is that we believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones and that the Holy Ghost is a spirit. They are separate and distinct beings, who work together as one. Amiee, you speak of the Christian faith as if everyone has to believe exactly the same in order to be Christian. I consider that the definition of being a Christian is to believe and worship Christ, which Mormons do without question. As to your comment on Salvation by works vs faith...... we believe in Salvation by faith and works... not by faith alone. Here are some scripture verses from the bible.
James 2:14, 17-18
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works; shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
We believe that we are all spirit sons and daughters of God (including those in the world who do not believe as we do). We believe that as such, we are part of a family unit which, of course, includes a Heavenly Mother. Most families seem to have some that do good, and some that do evil. We were all brothers and sisters before we were born on this earth, that would include Satan and his followers. We believe that God loves us, his children, and that after we die we will be rewarded for our actions here on earth. One of these rewards will be hell, if that is what we deserve, or it might be the chance to become like our parents and become Gods. That doesn't mean that we worship many Gods. We worship God and Jesus Christ.
As for Jesus being married and having children.... who knows. Maybe, maybe not. It isn't something taught in our church. However, I have heard that according to the Jewish traditions, it would have been unusual if he didn't have a family, but I don't know. As for TKphillip's comment of us not believing that Jesus was born of a virgin.... that is totally false. We believe that Jesus is the literal son of God and the son of the virgin Mary.
You question the purity of the Mormon theology...... I question the purity of other Christian theology. Regardless, I don't accuse them of not being Christian, because, as I stated before, I believe that any religion that worships Christ is a Christian religion.
Merry Christmas!
Mormonism is NOT Christian. Joseph Smith introduced many changes in the accepted gospel, but used the basic structure of Christianity to make it resemble true Christainity in order to get followers (the secong great awakening was in full bloom so any new movement had to be Chistian-like). Christ warned that many would come in his name to decieve people and lead them astray- to their great peril. Anyone who reads the true gospel and asks God to reveal it to them will experience the Holy Spirit and never allow any man-originated authority to come between him and God ever again- it proves itself. Look at the video "JesusChrist/Joseph Smith" at YouTube and get the details of the origins of this false religion.
Todays Mormons are ordinary, fine people who are accepting the tradition they receive from their parents. This is a virtue and a sign of love and good character. But such a person would be a loyal Communist if he were born in Russia in 1920, or Nazi if born in Germany in 1930, or Hindu if born in India in the 1800s.... Just because it is received from people you love does NOT mean you should believe it as an adult or defend it uncritically.
It is my prayer that each Mormon would put all bias and preconceived notions aside , go off by him or herself for a few days and read a good account of the basic Christian gospel from an charismatic evangelical source (that is, ALIVE), and then decide for themselves what God's true plan for man is. And there should be no duress or retaliation from the Mornon Church should they decide to become Christian in the sense born again Christains are and have been since the Resurrection.
Good luck and know you are loved!
Lee, I am not here to argue with you. You can believe whatever you want. I looked at your You Tube reference, and I found it to be false, and obviously placed there to discredit the Mormon religion.
We believe that Christ and God appeared to Joseph Smith to organize His Church again on the earth. Because of this our church has authority from God not from man.
Of course we teach our children our beliefs. Most parents who love their religion and their children will do this, regardless of their religion. We also teach them that they have to make their own decision, and as they grow into adults they need to gain their own testimony of what is right. We do not believe in forcing our religion on anyone, nor is there any "duress or retaliation" when people (or our own children) choose to believe differently.
I know, for myself, that the true gospel of Jesus Christ is found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the real name of the Mormon religion). My testimony has come from my efforts, not from my parents, friends or by following blindly like sheep.
If any of you are interested in knowing more about the Mormon religion, it is best to learn from the Mormon religion itself, not from heresay and rumor. You are welcome to go to Mormon.org or LDS.org, or to have missionaries visit you.
I state again, as I did in the beginning, that Mormons are Christians because we fully and without question believe in and worship Jesus Christ. You can choose to believe as you wish.
I have some questions for anyone who can answer. Some things that seem to have been edged around
What do the LDS believe about Jesus Christ's origins? What about his Incarnation and Birth?
What do you believe about the nature and unity of the Trinity? Is God one God that is also three distinct beings existing as one but work in unique ways, all subject to the Father. Or is He three gods that just work together?
What do you believe about the relationship between Jesus and Lucifer? Are they equal?
What do you believe about the afterlife? What is Heaven like? What do the believers do in Eternity?
Thank you.
We believe that Jesus is the son of God. His mother was the virgin Mary. By being the son of God he had the ability to live a perfect life, give his life to atone for our sins and to have power over death to allow all of us to be resurrected. By being the son of Mary he was able to have a mortal body and was able to have mortal experiences. We believe the story of Christ's birth as it is related in the new testament.
LDS.org states "Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Father in the flesh. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. Under the direction of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth. Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross—that is, by performing the Atonement—Jesus Christ saves us from our sins as we follow Him. Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saves us from physical death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection."
It states in LDS.org that "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven."
"The members of the Godhead are three separate beings. The Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bones, and the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. Although the members of the Godhead are distinct beings with distinct roles, they are one in purpose and doctrine. They are perfectly united in bringing to pass Heavenly Father's divine plan of salvation."
LDS.org states that "Satan, also called the adversary or the devil, is the enemy of all righteousness and of those who seek to follow God. He is a spirit son of God who was once an angel "in authority in the presence of God". But in the premortal Council in Heaven, Lucifer, as Satan was then called, rebelled against God. Since that time, he has sought to destroy the children of God on earth and to make them miserable." Jesus Christ and Lucifer, as well as all of us, are spirit children of God. Lucifer and his followers chose to rebel and go against God's plan.
We believe that Heaven is where God lives and we hope to live with him again. We also believe that there are different degrees of glory in heaven, and when we are judged we will be rewarded with the glory that we have earned.
Mormon.org states:
Heaven is the place where God lives and the future home of those who follow Him. Heavenly Father’s hope is for all of His children to return to live with Him, through the plan He provided and by the grace of the Savior Jesus Christ.
After you are resurrected, you will be judged and rewarded for the things you have done in this life. Your loving Heavenly Father is anxious to reward all of His children according to their obedience to His commandments and their willingness to follow the Savior.
Those who are worthy to return to the presence of our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ become “heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ” (Romans 8:17) of all that the Father has. They will return to live with Heavenly Father and with their families in His eternal glory.
Those who choose not to follow our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.
Just as some of life’s sweetest joys can come through family associations, the loss of a beloved family member can be a source of deepest sorrow. But death does not need to be the end of your relationships with cherished loved ones. The Lord revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith that the “same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there [in eternity], only it will be coupled with eternal glory” ( Doctrine and Covenants 130:2).
Family members who accept the Atonement of Jesus Christ and follow His example can be together forever through sacred sealing ordinances performed in God’s holy temples.
After you are judged, you will live in a state of glory. Because everyone’s works and righteous desires vary, heaven includes different kingdoms, or degrees of glory.
Celestial kingdom—Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ reside in the celestial kingdom. If you live according to the gospel of Jesus Christ and are cleansed from sin by the Atonement, you will receive a place in this, the highest kingdom, where you will live in God’s presence and know complete joy.
Terrestrial kingdom—People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.
Telestial kingdom—Those who continue in their sins and do not repent until after they have died, will eventually receive a place in the telestial kingdom.
I hope that this has been of some help. Feel free to visit Mormon.org or LDS.org.
I understand you have that 'feeling in your heart' that the writings of Joseph Smith were revealed from above. But this does not refute the warning Jesus gave that many false teachers would come in his name to lead believers away. Most importantly, Paul revealed in his letter to the Ephesians that if ANYONE 'even an angel' should teach a gospel other than the one he taught, he should be damned. Yes, a man damning an angel! He anticipated that not only men but 'angels' might use deception to bring false teaching. So even if an angel did speak to Joseph Smith, it does not give it any weight of truth. The test is does it change in any way the gospel taught by Jesus through the deciples he taught and through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles.
So your defenses carry no weight. I assume you will reply that 'the scriptures we have today have been altered or were incorrest from the beginning'. This only empasizes the fundamental divide between Morman theology and Christian. According to the prophetic revelations in Daniel, the Messiah would come when he did and then there were seven more years of history of God's dealing with man in this fallen age. In essence, he put history on 'pause' while the word was spread for all to believe who were willing. Then, he hits 'play' and the 'age of grace' closes and Christ returns to eliminate Satan and all of his works and followers (those not in relationship with him as Savior) and the final years of the Tribulation described by Christ himself in Matthew's account begin
. It is HIS work that will give us eternal life, a renewed world, and SHARED rulership with him as KING. NOT our own spiritual evolution toward a future where we are gods of our own planets or whatever. This is a CONTRARY theology- one must be false. Again, I recommend a new look at the revealed gospel in the New Testament without the bias of pre existing conclusions or past emotional experience (emotions can be wrong). I recommend Andrew Wommach's teaching at his website 'www.awmi.org'. It is the clearest presentation, as many other accounts have acquired alterations, the bane of denominationalism. God bless you and may he reveal himself through his Word, (as he will not give a new revelation if the existing one already fits the need.)
Just try it... We can continue the discussion. I love you.
Lee, I have no idea which Christian religion you belong to, but I do know that there are many of them, and all of them believe differently. I am sure that members of each of the Christian religions believe that their religion is the right one and all others are false. I believe the same with my own Christian religion....The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon).
We believe that there was a time when Christ's gospel was lost from the world and that He restored it to the earth through Joseph Smith. Christ said that there would be a falling away of the truth before he would come again to the earth.
It states in Second Thessalonians chapter 2 verses 1-3:
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
This apostasy in described in Mormon.org:
"Following the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted and killed many Church members, and other Church members drifted from the principles taught by Jesus Christ and His Apostles. The Apostles were killed and the priesthood authority—including the keys to direct and receive revelation for the Church—was taken from the earth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3). Because the Church was no longer led by priesthood authority and revelation, error crept into Church teachings. Good people and much truth remained, but the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost, resulting in a period called the Great Apostasy.
This apostasy led to the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings. Without the full gospel or the priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to interpret the scriptures and the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. False ideas were taught as truth, and much of the knowledge of the true character and nature of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost was lost. The doctrines of faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost became distorted or forgotten. Each generation inherited a state of apostasy, as people were influenced by what previous generations passed on, including changes to Christ’s gospel. Some inspired people, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, recognized that practices and doctrines had been changed or lost and tried to reform the churches to which they belonged. Without the priesthood authority, however, Christ’s gospel could not be returned to its original form.
After centuries of spiritual darkness, a restoration of truth was needed. Under the Direction of our Heavenly Father, the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored on the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith. God has promised it will never be taken from His children again."
I realize that you believe differently than I do. You say, that I must be following false teachings and prophets because I don't believe as you do. You have the right to believe that. I have the right to disagree.
I believe that there was an apostasy of Christ's truth on the earth and that He restored it in full and with His authority through Joseph Smith. I believe this was done because God loves us and wanted His Church on the earth again.
As you suspected, I believe that there have been changes to the bible that occurred during the years of apostasy. Christ brought forth the Book of Mormon through Joseph Smith to be another testament of Him and to clarify His doctrine. We have a living prophet and twelve apostles to guide us and to receive revelation from God that pertains to the times that we live in now.
I know that there are those of you who do not believe as I do, and I am not here to argue with you. I am here to state my beliefs. If you want to know more, you can visit LDS.org or Mormon.org.
Thanks for your frank and detailed response. I understand your position that you think Joseph Smith's writings represent the restoration of the true Word, that we have different views of the truth of the matter, and that we all have the right to our own opinions..... BUT.... let me back up and with a loving heart establish some initial understandings and agreements: 1) This IS a two way discussion or discourse , i.e. an 'argument' ...in the good or philosophical sense of the word- that's why we are here!, 2) we are NOT merely expressing our personal opinions or feelings, but are (humbly) putting aside our personal opinions to look out at the world and conform our thinking to the truth of the subject we are studying, 3) truth is OBJECTIVE, meaning it exists 'out there' in itself ....we actually do NOT have a right to a contrary opinion of it (if 2+2 is four, then no one has a 'right to their own opinion' and assert 2+2 is 5, or whatever) , 4) thus the maxim, 'In matters of taste(opinion) never argue: in matters of truth, ARGUE (apply reason, logic , and verified facts to eliminate error and reach agreement on the truth of the matter)! So there are a multitude of opinions about God and His plan of salvation, but only one truth about it. We have a duty to find it- pride or prior loyalties or willful subjective assertions corrupt the process. We must humble ourselves- "be still and know that I am God." "Seek me with all of your heart and you will find me". You get the idea.
My position is that the New Testament has been validated, by comparison of thousands of transcripts, to be the accurate account related by the apostles and Paul ( 1% minor errors, NONE relating to the key concepts). With this revelation AND the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, the early believers were transformed... they healed the sick, raised the dead , performed other miracles, and suffered extreme persecution with courage. THIS is a great test of truth. If the text is correct and can produce this power (with the Holy Spirit), then it is unreasonable to assert that any other text is superior or it is fatally flawed and needs correction. I understand that LATER men added doctrines to this and interpreted it wrongly and greatly reduced it's power. But the ORIGINAL gospel(i.e. New Testament) AND the same Holy Spirit are just as present today as it was then.. no supplement is needed. God has said 'know the word and the word will set you free' and give 'eternal life NOW' (John). Put this on one side of the scale and any other version of the gospel on the other, and it wins every time. No contest really. Christianity is very resonable!
I don't know your age, but I am old enough to remember the Saturday Night Live original show with the Rosanne-rosannadana character. She would have this longwinded opinion about something that was humerous and obviously wrong to the audience, then at the end have Chevy Chase point out the original false assumption she had used. Then, sheepishly the light would go off in her mind and she would smile and say, "Never mind!" I feel this way about anyone who asserts an account of God and salvation different from the New Testament in any basic way or who believes it is not accurate or needing correction. This includes Christian denomintions that you rightly criticise and Mormonism. The original given gospel works when fully applied! "Where's the beef?", as the saying goes?
The good news is that IF you are truly born again, acknowledge Christ as the Savior and son of God, and believe God raised him from the dead, you are saved. You ALSO need the baptism of the Holy Spirit to develop the potential fruits of this change in the now, or else you have to wait to die and experience them then. If you are born again, then I believe all is well.... But renewing the mind and developing this gift is a full time job spiritually. God has called you into relationship, intimate and ongoing. As a grateful and loving child of the Father, I think the finer course is to be in the moment and not speculate beyond this reality. Let the future take care of itself. God can be trusted to care for us. Grow in His word by the way the original gospel prescribes with no alterations or additions. This is fundamental Christianity.
I look forward to your heart felt responses to this... With love!
Also, a point of information:
The quote from Second Thessolonians you gave has a particalar meaning.... the 'falling away' mentioned is from the Greek word 'apostosia'.... this actually means 'departure' (Greek scholars agree on this)... this refers to the Rapture of the Church. This occurs prior to the revealing of the antichrist( son of perdition) and beginning of the seven years of Tribulation.... The presence of the Church restrains these events and their removal allows it to finally occur. Paul was reassuring the believers not to worry that the Rapture had already come and they had already missed it. Just the opposite was true, Paul said- they would be rescued by rapture first before these desperate times would happen.
In this light, a major foundation of Mormon revision of Church history is shattered. The so called 'falling away' did not happen in the past - Paul says it 'shall' come as a rescuing Rapture (apostasia). It has nothing to do with false teachings, which have certainly happened. Any past persecutions were not the Tribulation. The basic gospel of the New Testament documents was unaffected. So this has nothing to do with any past corruption of the Church or the gospel ( sorry, a glaring ''Rossane-rosannadana"). See, the believers of his time had been deceived by counterfeit letters supposedly from him into thinking the Rapture had already occurred and they had not made the grade. They were disturbed that they were going to go through the Tribulation. Paul was reassuring them. Reread the quote from that viewpoint and it is clear (try to avoid the King James- so archaic and hard to understand...)
Lee, I predict that your arrogant condescension will end this thread! The pretty little bow at the end means nothing after your (not so subtle) derogatory comments. I was enjoying the discussion, but you went too far. Your opinion that Mormons are not Christians should stand on it's own merit without derogatory comments.
I am curious, what religion are you? Do all "Christian" religions believe the same things? Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Southern Baptists, etc. I truly want to know. In light of a current presidential candidate I became interested and have noticed a lot of anti-Mormon discussion. I understand there are different interpretations of the Bible. Are not all Christian religions based on different interpretations of the Bible? Why are Mormons singled out? Because they have more scripture? It seems to me that Mormons "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" are another "Christian" religion. Do you spend this much time discrediting other Christian religions? Or recruiting Atheists? I am asking you specifically because from your posts you seem like a learned individual. I have not come across any Mormons trying to discredit other religions - only expressing their beliefs. Call me naive, but it seems this energy would be better spent working with than against. There are a lot more pressing problems in this world than theological differences.
Thanks for your comments Ben. If my argument seems arrogant or derisive, I apologize. That was not my intent and if delivered in person, would probably have carried more humor, including the self-deprecating type. I am a humble person and have learned most of my lessons the hard way and would like to help others to not make them. I can get passionate about truth and God... But I am self-less in this.
There is a lot of political correctness these days where people seem so thin skinned about strong direct speech about truth. This was not always the case. I believe there is a post-modern thought virus going aroung that all truth is subjective: "that may be true for you, but not for me..." This is just plain false. It can devastate a life. This also implies that anyone who states that there is objective truth that one should seek and humble himself to accept is infringing on freedom or being a hater or fascist... This actually is shouting down truth seekers.. sorry if that is direct.
I believe there is a God (despite the heavy indoctrination against that idea in K-12 education - perhaps this has affected you), that he has revealed Himself with a plan for salvation that we all NEED (really a life and death issue .. yes, more pressing than any other), that it is the only way to the Father .. only because He said so, not me), that it is a FREE gift and gives complete freedom to the receiver (what could be easier?)... this is really GREAT news. But it has to be understood to be received. Altered versions of it are a REAL problem. By intent investigation, loving but earnest two way communication, and humility, it can be found. All we know about this divine salvation was revealed in Christ's time and soon after to Paul. Joseph Smith lived 1900 years later and had no connection to this in my view- it is not just another interpretation, but states that all other versions of God's plan are radically wrong. Other Christian denominations are just variations of the received gospel with fewer disagreements, though they can be significant. That's why I advocte the original gospel, which has been verified as accurate by researchers and by the Holy Spirit with no other human interpretation.
If my manner of presentation has offended, please forgive me. If my humor did not come across in the good natured way I intended, please ignore it. But do disgest and assimilate the reasoning and information, it is actually a very important issue. Once a person settles this, there is plenty of time to deal with anything else- an eternity.
Again.. find the video "Jesus Christ VS Josepth Smith" at YouTude or similar... and I recommend www.awmi.org for the essentials of Christian belief. Then decide for yourself. It's your choice....
Lee, I started this hub because I wanted to let people know that Mormons are Christian, and I stand by that statement. All of our beliefs are centered around Jesus Christ and His teachings.
One of the scriptures from the Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 25:26) states:“And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.”
I am more than willing to share my beliefs. I will not get into a theological discussion dissecting the differences between my religion and whichever Christian religion is yours. There is no question that we have differences. Frankly, there is only one vital issue. Who has the authority of God? The Catholics claim to have the authority passed down from Peter. The Mormons claim the authority was lost and restored again by God through Joseph Smith.
I share with you something my church has said in our Bible Dictionary about the Bible:
Joseph Smith taught that “many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled.” He also said that the Bible was correct as “it came from the pen of the original writers,” but that “ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors” The Church reveres and respects the Bible, but recognizes that it is not a complete nor entirely accurate record, and affirms also that the Lord has given additional revelation through his prophets in the last days that sustains, supports, and verifies the biblical account of God’s dealings with mankind.
I am sure that you are aware that even the changing or mistranslation of one word can change the meaning of a sentence. We believe that God has clarified the Bible with other scriptures and revelations, you say you go by the studies of men. I prefer to put my trust in God instead of Man.
I have spent my time studying the scriptures (Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon etc) and have arrived at my own conclusions. I have put a lot of prayer into my studies and have received a witness of the Holy Ghost that my beliefs are true. I cannot ever deny this if I want to stay in good standing with God. You seem to think that because I don’t believe as you do that I must be unintelligent or just haven’t studied the issues.
A witness of the truth is something that each individual needs to gain for himself. No amount of discussion can force the issue. We are individually responsible for our beliefs and actions. Someday we will face God and be judged. Then we will all know the truth. Now we must go by faith. I am secure and at peace with my beliefs. I am not afraid to face God.
One of our Articles of Faith states:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Thanks for heart-felt and sincere testimony of faith, Jnate. If you are born again and share the gospel of Christ's plan of salvation with others, you certainly are one of his sheep and should rest assured personally of your spiritual condition. That's the really good news.
With regard to your points of fact that support Mormon theology, I would like to make some responses. First , you repeat Joseph Smith's assertion that important truths were left out of the original New Testament writings. He claims this totally from his own authority, because it was based on no source except his private nineteenth century revelations- no historical research or tradition supports this. With what IS in our gospel, 'full gospel' ( meaning receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit as in Acts) believers continue TODAY to heal the sick miraculously, be transformed in astonishing ways, even raise from the dead on occasions. It's hard to say that any other version has a greater performance when applied today, if judged objectively.
Second, as I already wrote, manuscripts of the New testament writings have been found going back to the first century itself and compared to thousands of later hand copies. There is NO major error or alteration that affects the core teachings and gospel or diminish it's power when applied. (See Lee Stroebel's book, 'The Case for the Bible", I believe). Even many secular historians agree on this point.
Third, and most importantly, it is a serious error to begin with the idea that ANY authority to interpret dogma was transfered to man from Christ or God. That's where all the trouble of denominationalism began from the Catholic through the Protestant to the Mornon and others. Man is still incomplete (imperfect) and has stains of the fall yet to be erased. Man will corrupt ANYTHING he touches in his own will and mind- and be convinced he is saving the world! This includes US- me and you. We have all experienced this in our own minds. That's why the Holy Spirit was sent. HE will teach us as we read the received Scriptures and pray baptised in the spirit (as in Pentecost of Acts). And the Holy Spirit will never, never, never never.... let me emphasize this NEVER!... teach anything that is contrary to the Word already given.
God gave the Word so that we could protect ourselves even from deceiving spirits that would try to mislead the believer. We can compare any inspiration or doctrine against the Word. God knew that there was a vulnerability if the direct connection between humble individual believers and Him was broken by ANY human source. He did NOT call anyone to religion, but to RELATIONSHIP- we need to keep it simple and based on the power of his Word, validated and powered directly by the Holy Spirit himself IN us. No man in the loop....
This fact gives me problems and puts me on guard against ANY established religion (church) where MEN have devised doctrine. It is totally unnecesary and dangerous. This includes Catholic, Protestant, Morman or any other Church stained by the ideas of any man if they depart from the received scripture. So we agree on this point. But this gives Mormonism a 'tough row to hoe' if they think they can justify a system of doctrine that comes in history from a man, or even a spirit ('angel'), and disagrees with the existing Word in any way. Have they healed the sick and raised the dead? Can it produce the baptism of the Holy Spirit and a direct relationship with the Father with power? Why choose such a system over the original that works so powerfully? That's the core of my problem with any religion that at the end of the day, rests on trusting in a MAN- including the Christian 'religions'.
This includes the 'religion' of the individual: the "my own personal belief..." thing so common in this narcissistic self-obsessed, post modern world... But don't get me started on all that....! (humor intended) ...We must be HUMBLE, and ask the Holy Spirit to lead and teach us from the Word.. and in these times that is the hardest, politically incorrect thing to do- "it's all about me, it's all about me...", " I have a right to my own beliefs..", "that may be true for you, but not for me..." , "I just FEEEEEEL differently...." (this jibe is directed at me, not you, as I have to battle this every day)... We all do.
(Humbled) You ( or me) + God(Word) = everything.
You + God +anything else = nothing
Hope that is clear....
God is our Heavenly Father and He is the one who sent Christ to earth to be our Savior. Christ organized His Church here on earth. It is for God and Christ to say who has their authority.
Joseph Smith prayed to our Heavenly Father and received a vision. God and Jesus Christ appeared to him (in person) and told him that none of the Churches on the earth were true and that His authority was no longer on the Earth. Joseph Smith was told: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” (Joseph Smith - History 1:19)
God later sent Joseph Smith other visions. He was visited by the Angel Moroni who taught him and gave him the care of ancient plates to translate, by the power of God, into the Book of Mormon. (See Joseph Smith - History 1 : 27-54) He was visited by John the Baptist who ordained Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery with the Aaronic Priesthood (Authority of God). (See Joseph Smith - History 1:68-75) Joseph Smith and, Oliver Cowdery were also visited by Peter, James and John who ordained them with the Melchizedek Priesthood (Authority of God). They were ordained apostles and special witnesses of Christ and bear the keys to work in the name of God. (See Doctrine and Covenants 27:12)
God restored his Church to earth as it was originally. He can do that..... He is God.
Man tends to change things to accommodate how they want to believe, which is why I am so grateful that God gives us a latter day prophet and revelation so that His will is done.
To read the basic beliefs of my faith, see my other Hub that lists the Article of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
"Lee, I have no idea which Christian religion you belong to, but I do know that there are many of them, and all of them believe differently. I am sure that members of each of the Christian religions believe that their religion is the right one and all others are false."
This is the "you need to get out more" thing that signifies that a cradle Mormon is talking.
The Roman Catholic church, East Orthodox churches, and all major Protestant denominations recognize each others' baptisms. The Catholic catechism calls Protestants "separated brethren," whose receipt of grace is considered minimal on that account but whose salvation is not called into question. For Protestants, switching denominations can be ridiculously frequent, and no thinks anything of it.
Evangelicals generally consider the "Church" to transcend institutional boundaries. Consisting of all who have genuinely leaned on Christ's finished work in reconciling them to the Father, and who look to him alone for their justification before God, regardless of denomination these are the church. Doubtless there are many Mormons in this catholic (adjective) church. However, they would be Christians in spite of, and not because of, the adventures of their thoroughly heterodox founder.
Finally, I note that Mormons don't recognize the baptisms of Christians from various denominations, as they do of each other. This is because Mormonism considers these Christian denominations to be apostate.
The question is, then, "why do Mormons want to be considered to be 'as Christian as' groups whose initiatory rite of faith they don't recognize, and who they consider to be apostate?" It seems a bit weird.
We believe in one baptism, by the authority of God. We do not claim to believe the exact same as other Christian churches. As I have defined before, we believe in Christ, and are therefore Christian. When other Christian religions say that Mormons aren't Christian.... they seem to be saying that we don't believe in Christ.... which is false.
Jnate,
The Jesus you believe in isn't the same Jesus of the bible. That is the difference. The mormon Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. Was conceived by a man - not the Holy Spirit. These are the ideas of the founding fathers, which is a shame since mormons are very dedicated, sincere in their beliefs. But these are not enough to ganin acceptence by the True God.
One other scripture here, if Joseph Smith was a reader of the bible as he says he was then his reaction to the visit of the angel Moroni would have been much differnet. Evidently by his choice leads only to one assumption. He was not a reader of the bible.
Galatians 1:6 - 9 6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
menschtx,
I disagree with you. The Jesus we believe in is the same Jesus in the Bible. We are all spirit brothers and sisters, and are all God's children. Jesus was conceived through the Holy Spirit, not by man. Joseph Smith was a reader of the Bible, it was the scriptures that influenced him to seek an answer from God.
James 1: 5-6
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.
The scripture you speak of in Galatians was Paul writing to the Galatians and chastising them for not following the gospel. If you read further into the chapter it says:
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
When Joseph Smith prayed to know which church to join, God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith to tell him not to join any of the Churches. The Gospel of Jesus Christ and His authority were lost from the earth after all of the Apostles were killed. Christ restored His gospel and the authority to work in His name through Joseph Smith.
The angels that gave this authority to Joseph Smith were sent by Jesus Christ to restore His Gospel.
if you have ever even read the bible, you would know that the only time he is supposed to reappear to us is in the end times to bring his people to heaven before God destroys this poisoned world. why would he appear in the 1800s to some random man? after not appearing to anyone since the first Easter when he rose from the dead?
I have read the Bible multiple times. There is a history of Jesus appearing to prophets before he was born on Earth.
Here are a few scriptures from the Bible:
Genesis 12: 7 Appeared to Abram
Exodus 33: 11 The Lord spake to Moses face to face
Isaiah 6:1 The Lord was seen by Isaiah
Amos 9:1 Amos saw the Lord
And from the Book of Mormon:
Alma 19:13 King Lamoni testifies that he saw his Redeemer
Ether 3:13, 20 The Lord shows himself to the brother of Jared
Ether 9:22 Emer saw the Son of Righteousness
After Christ’s resurrection He appeared to many people also.
Here are some scriptures other than those from the Four Gospels:
Acts 1: 3 Christ seen by the Apostles forty days.
Acts 7:55 Stephen sees Jesus on the right hand of God
1 Corinthians 15:5-6 Christ was seen of Cephas, the twelve, and 500 brethren at once.
3 Nephi 11: 8-15 Christ showed himself to a multitude in America and they felt the wounds in his hands, feet and side.
Mormon 1:15 Mormon was visited of the Lord
Ether 12:39 Moroni testifies that he talked with Jesus face to face.
Just as there were many signs and prophecies about the Birth of Christ, there are many signs and prophecies of the Second Coming of Christ. At His Second Coming He shall reign here on Earth and all will know who He is. That is the time when He will appear to the whole world. It doesn’t mean that he won’t appear to anyone before then. Joseph Smith wasn’t just some random man, he was foreordained to see Christ just as the other prophets were.
I believe that Christ loves all of us and wants us to have the truth of His Gospel. Since man killed His apostles and the Authority to work in His name was lost, Christ restored His Gospel though Joseph Smith so that we all have a chance to accept it and someday return to live with Him.
I think if you believe you are a Christian, if you worship Christ, if His name is in the name of your church, and you sincerely try to live as He taught, then what someone else feels about this doesn't make much difference. This is a futile argument, but generates great commentary in Hubpages.
I read a REALLY interesting book in college entitled "The American Religion" by Harold Bloom. I strongly recommend it, as it details similarities between the LDS church's faith and Baptist beliefs.
wannabwestern,
Thank you for your comments and your recommendations. I agree.
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Cathanne says:
10 months ago
Thanks for this! I was speaking to a friend today and was uncertain about whether or not Mormons viewed Christ as the Savior. She said yes, that in Salt Lake City there is a huge statue of Christ at the temple. I think it is important to know the truth, especially since there are such misconceptions in the media about Mormonism, especially of late.