National Health Care a human issue
68National Health Care, a Human Issue
On the hubs this week someone said that Government run health insurance is a human issue.
Suddenly it was all clear. I guess I realized I had been wrong all along about this issue. How could you turn your back on a human issue?
I started examinig the way insurance companies operated. Can you believe theses companies actually charge rates that are based on actuarial numbers? They say they need to do this to make sure the company doesn’t go bankrupt. Who do they think they are? Don’t they understand that this is a human issue?
Don’t they understand that we as Americans have a right to health insurance? I think it's in the Declaration of Independence or one of those outdated bill of rights.
Now that I have been enlightened to understand that this is a human issue, I now agree that the government should run this thing, that way we can be assured that costs will be controlled. After all I doubt the government would ever let a program grow out of control.
I think these insurance companies times have come and gone.
I say screw them and the thousands of employees they have too.
This is a human issue, so in that spirit I am writing my congressman to ask if they can just absorb the drug companies too. Why should they be allowed to make a profit on a drug that is needed by people? They think they have some kind of right just because they invest millions into research and development---So what, this is a human issue not a business. There is no room for profits or financial responsibility here.
Once the transition is made to the government running health insurance they should complete this human issue by nationalizing the hospitals. The cost containment would be incredible!Americans would be the healthiest people in the world, and would probably have the longest mortality.
While we're getting rid of insurance companies I'm for getting rid of those "life Insurance" companies too. Life insurance, are they joking? The premiums alone will kill you.
They follow these ridiculous practices of basing rates on mortality tables of life expectancy, and then expect you to take a physical to qualify.
I think this is a human issue, if the government could take over the life insurance companies, we could all have guaranteed life insurance at a fraction of the cost. Mortality wouldn't matter any more, the government has plenty of money to fund a flat premium for all of us. All they would need to do is tax the rich a little more, after all they are rich. How much do they need?
It would be a great plan for widows and children, helping to keep them in their homes and paying their bills, definitely a human issue.
In MA we had state run car insurance for over twenty years. Unfortunately it failed as costs spiraled out of control, and good drivers were being heavily penalized to subsidize bad drivers. When the state dropped the plan and brought back private insurers my annual premium went from $1840. to $918.
I felt so guilty, what about those bad drivers that had to pay so much more now?
I felt that this was a human issue and petitioned the state to get back into the business again.
We could probably have this done on a national basis and then we could all pay a flat rate for our car insurance. We'd have no more uninsured drivers, because the uninsured would automatically be covered. This would be a real human thing to do, and we'd be rid of those pesky private insurance companies that are interested in profits.---can you imagine?
Let's all pray Obama is successful and gets us government health insurance, then government life insurance, then government car ins.
Obama’s talked about food banks in commercials, maybe he could get the Fed. to take over those huge profit driven food stores, you know places like Stop and Shop.
This would be a great human issue, there would be no more hunger in America. Every person that can't afford food would get a card to shop for free. Imagine how successful that plan would be if the government could nationalize the farms at the same time. Then we'd have great cost control, the government would own the food from seed to plant too your table.
Call your Congressman, let's get it done. Obama has opened the national checkbook with a deposit that came from you and me. Let's spend it!
Wow--- I am sure the founding fathers never dreamed of what they started.
The Shark
Comments
ok, you've convinced me-it's a human issue. Where do I sign? NOT! LMAO. Love your sarcasm. :)
Hi Tom, not sarcasm, just a little satire. Isn't that what the Obama admin. is giving us?
He tells us we can keep our current ins. if we like it, but in the bill there is a payroll tax penalty to any company with a payroll over $281,000. that doesn't sign onto the govt plan. I guess IBM, Microsoft, Apple, and the rest of the fortune 500 and dow jones industrials and thousands of other companies will be dropping that employer plan.
So how do you keep somthing that doesn't exist anymore?
I don't know how many people are aware of the provision in the bill that says if you fail to pay your premium and the policy lapses the govt will garnish your wages.
Talk about govt intervention, it sounds like the IRS is running this thing.
Shark
A human issue, I can get behind helping humans! Its those pesky animals I don't like! are we going to get them insurance or are the Vets going to switch to humans?
No, I am sure the govt will find something for them, after all it's a big tent the libs run. All circuses have big tents.
Shark
Circuses, ahhhhhhhhhh, they can practice on the featured acts like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi! God call sharkman!
I meant "Good Call" but if he drops you a line put in a good word for me!
He only speaks to his son at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave
I really don't want to get into a discussion and I won't reply as I am a socialist...I only want to suggest that there isn't one of you who are making these remarks who is without insurance and/or have to go without food or something else to provide insurance for your family.
Well Bella you would be wrong, the shark is self employed and I pay my own health insurance, life insurance and I also pay for my daughter's insurance in NY for her. I do what Americans used to do, help the family instead of running to the govt for help.
Oh so now we owe food to people.
I was out of work for two years when I quit to stay home and take care of my wife who was dying from cancer, I asked no part of the govt for food, insurance or help. That was only four years ago.
I did what my family and my God expected of me.
After I buried my wife and took my daughter back to College I went back to an empty office with no business left and started over.
I also didn't cry to Penn State and say I needed help, I took loans and put her through college and I'm still paying those loans.
Don't tell me about not knowing what it's like Missy---because you know nothing of what your talking about.
You don't want a discussion, then don't start one.
Don't assume you know anything about anyone on these hubs. You have no idea what it was like.
Shark
Outstanding work here, friend. Your black humor made me smile. Thanks.
Thanks James,
Let's hope and work for this thing to go down in defeat. I am going to a rally tomorrow out side my useless congressman's office. He's hiding under his desk and refuses to have a meeting with the voters.
His office told me he's busy with the Michelle Obama's volunteerism program---if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.
Shark
Great hub. I've never heard insurance portrayed so accurately. To the one who condemned your comments, try making goals to support your family in tough economic times like these. Government is the cause of our problems, not the solution.
Bella are you doing without food? If you have an internet connection and no food then you may want to work that socialism a little harder! Shark I had no Idea about your wife and I am truly sorry for your loss!! God Bless You!
So you're of the opinion that people should die because they are poor?
Strophios, your straw man arguments are lame! Nobody in this Country can be (by law) denied Medical treatment based on their inability to pay!! You know this and yet continue the class warfare! Give it up!
So in other words, all those people who want health insurance really already have it? Then what are we even talking about?
P.S. A more substantive reply when I have time for more than impish questioning.
Strophios I already told you go back to your poetry, art, music, greek and commie professors. Talk to me after you've been in the real world for about ten years.
Charities and some govt support are great for helping people in need. Unfortnately we now have a class of lay abouts that EXPECT things to be handed out to them.
Hi Tex, don't waste your time debating him, he's a college kid studying art, poetry, greek, and music...need I say more.
He has no clue what life is about and what it takes to support a family and be a man.
I could have easily quit, my wife was dying of cancer, I was self employeed so no free or employer health care, I paid my own insurance. I quit my job to stay and try to see her back to health and if that wasn't going to happen, then to spend as much time with her as I could.
She died my daughter's 5th week of her 1st semeter at college.
I had now been out of work for about 18months with no income. I didn't think I was going to be able to keep my house. I had considerd selling about 5 months before she died, but one day my wife said to me she loved the house we built and the town we lived in. I asked why, she said I feel at peace here, I knew at that moment I had to do everything in my power not to sell and not take her away from a place she felt at peace.
In addition to my health insurance costs, I had to buy about $1500. to $2000. worth of health products that were not covered by our insurance.
She died, I buried her in the the town she loved so she could rest in peace.
My daughter asked me, what do we do now?
I told her she was going back to college, that her mother had made the tremendous effort it took to go and see her off to college and she had said she didn't want her illness to stand in the way of our daughter's future.
I bought two tickets and flew with her back to Penn State.
I pushed my way into the registrar's office to ask them to help her to assimilate back into her classes. I took a photo book of our family so she could see my daughter as more than just a student, but as person. They did help, the girl made up the work she missed and graduated on time in in exactly 4 years, she made her mother and me proud.
It was now 21 months since I had worked and with very little motivation, I held onto what I could, I knew my daughter needed me for more than just college tuition, but to be her only parent now.
My business had been in Boston, my wife was not only my wife, my best friend, my lover, she was also my business partner and my equale.
As my blog says, I went to a new area for work, NH it was about the same drive as it was to Boston. I started brand new, I pushed myself to try to get back to where we were before, but financially I had lost everything.
That's what you do when things get tough, this kid Stro is just that a kid, as my father would say, still wet behind the ears.
He'll find out some day that a man stands on his own and does the necessary things it takes to take care of and support his family.
Right now he has nothing to do but visit hubs and tell people how he is such a good person because he believes in taking our money and giving it to others. This from a kid in college, probaly not even working. Parents are probably paying for his education and dorm.
I don't like to put my personal story out here, I prefer to stay on politics, but once in a while you have a kid like stro or a coward like Bella that think they or their professors have all the answers,and will try to lecture us about what is right knowing nothing about what anyone of us have been through.
The Shark
That is an amazing story, I don't really know what to say other than you are tougher man than me! As far as strophios is concerned I know what he is I just think the questions he asks are designed to incite an argument that he is ill equipped to rationally continue!
And Strophios the question is why indeed, I pay for my health care why can't others? And Shark is correct there are many charities that can help those in need! I have a friend who is covered through a county indigent program and he receives care at the same hospitals and doctors I see.
Who is Bella?
"So in other words, all those people who want health insurance really already have it? Then what are we even talking about?"
Strophios makes the salient point that the debate has been redirected to Health Insurance rather than Health Care. Everyone has Health Care in the United States. Not everyone can get their teeth whitened or tummy tucked, but no one can be refused care in an Emergency Room. The poor get free glasses, free eye care, free dental care, free well baby care, free labor and delivery, free prenatal care *and* a ride to the hospital. They also get someone to explain to them how to get all this stuff. Truth be told, even though it's free, it's not uncommon for them to not show up for it. Hospitals literally schedule RNs to spend an entire day each week "on phones" tracking down people who didn't show up for their free appointments and treatment. We can't make it any more free.
God bless you Shark - you have grit. Listen, I've seen this guy Strophios on other hubs (and his own) and he lies like a rug. Now he gives sermons at his church - even though he's an atheist. But to hear him tell it, he's much better at interpreting scripture for precisely that reason.
This whole thing is about govt control of our lives. They want to get in as far as they can and stay there. Why? Because they themselves are so empty inside that they only feel good when they're controlling others. That's why they're in govt in the first place. I agree with DanDnAZ - govt is the cause of our problems and absolutely never the answer.
Oh yeah, and one more tiny little point - insurance companies are in business and need to stay solvent to help anyone. You make that point wonderfully. Our socialist govt drives attention away from that mainly so touchy feely idiots can wax rhapsodic about how great it is we finally have a dem in the white house.
Good hub Shark.
Oh Bella, I forgot about the socialist who left the comment. Disregard the question.
HI X, thanks, I know he's a immature bomb thrower with no clue to what life is about.
Yo hit on something about the payemnt of this health bill. It's intersting how the debate has focused on how we as a country are going to pay for this. But I haven't heard anyone, including Obama, tell us how, "we", individuals are going to be billed for this thing. Do we get a monthly bill from the govt?
What is the imome level amd what is the cut off where people go fromm gettng it free, to having to pay?
And what happens if someone is just over the income level for the free stuff and has to pay, but has to many other bills, cars, credit cards etc, and says they just don't have enough money left for the insurance, what happens to them?
I know the bill says if soemone doesn't apy their bill the govt will garnsih their wages. So we're going to make sur epeople have health care, then destroy their life and their credit by garnishing thier wages?
I hope this plan allows for psychiatric counseling, there may be a lot of people in line for that.
Shark
Thanks for the laugh Shark. This government healthcare "option" is another power grab, pure and simple. Unfortunately many Americans are going to buy into it...we may eventually end up with even greater government regulation over healthcare than we have now.
Hey Stro..... I went to your profile, as I am one that does not just accept words that are presented. I tend to expect evidence, as well. As The Apostle Paul said, "prove all things". My experience is that those that have been raised "Christian" who later turn "Atheistic" do so because something(s) happened in their life that did not go the way they wanted, and so they turn to the thought "that God must not exist or I would have gotten what I wanted", but I will defer that topic for some other time.
Let me get back to the topic at hand. Our forefathers founded this Country on the basis of Capitalism, freedom to live they the way the wanted too, and freedom to earn a living. I want to congratulate you on 8 days of work. In this economy that is great, however I have been in the construction industry now almost 32 years. I am a Registered Architect in 3 States with a fourth State pending. I have held a Contracting License as well.
I admire the culture and arts that you have studied in school. I will bet that, like me, math was not your strongest suit. I struggled in Calculus III, and never made it to Differential Equations. However, this health care plan, by what some have thought of as our Country's "savior", is doomed just as Social Security. Simple math will prove this out. First, whether we are talking about the Government or Privately provided, any health care system MUST be able to cover the costs, or it will fail. The cost to cover my family and I right now, through my mediocre company policy is about $900 a month ($400 for me and $500 for my other 4 family members). This comes with what amounts to about $6,000 deductible per year. Current population counts are 300 million plus in the US right now. Let us say that half the population of the US does not have a family. That would be 150 million at $400 for a total of $60 trillion, plus 150 million families at $900 for a total of $135 trillion, or a total of $195 trillion a month. How will this affect the budget deficit that is already 1.3 trillion dollar? My grandchildren's children will still be paying off that deficit, and that will not account what will have to happen for them. How can this be seen as a good buy? Who will pay that $195 trillion a month, then try to pay for the other services that are provided by the Government?
Nice try Stro and Bella. Come back to me after you have done the basic math. Facts should always precede political rhetoric. Get away from the class envy BS, and sit down with a calculator.
Strophios says "I would continue the debate here, but it has become clear to me that it is rather pointless (as much fun as it is). I have come with an open mind, willing to have my opinions changed by right argument and rational debate."
I say
You are an irrelevant bug, someone should step on you!
Go away Bug!
Stro…. You are very wrong!! Your atheism has everything to do with your personal life. Our beliefs define our values. It does not matter where those beliefs are rooted, whether it is from a book, teachers, or anything else. Our Country was founded on those very same principles.
As for the other "first world " countries that you spoke of, many of those Countries do not value personal liberty like ours does, historically speaking. I was amazed that you picked up on a couple sentences of my comment, while leaving the majority I said without response. It is pure economic fact, if health care services are to remain at the current level, costs for that health care can only drop minimally before services have to be reduced, no matter how many are in the "group". The concept sounds great, but rest assured, the implementation will fall short. Just look at the great social experiment of communism. The iron curtain fell because it could not complete with capitalism. It was a Utopian society, for imperfect humans. Socialized medicine will produce the same results. Ask any Canadian. Elective surgery is hard to come by in their health care system.
Stro, just answer the facts. Where does the money come to pay for the President's health care system, and who will decide what cuts will be made to the services to make it work for everyone in the Country?
And as far as that other lame-ass twit Bella goes, I don't have insurance and I take care of myself just fine. Why should I pay hundreds of dollars a month to some insurance company when I can go to the dr when I need to and just pay for exactly what I need? What ever happened to that idea?
There was no healthcare "problem" in this country 30 years ago. When you needed to go to the dr you went and paid. End of subject.
Go Away Bug!
Ah, I love flames, such solid proof that you have nothing else on your side (certainly not logic or reason, and no facts either).
Great Hub Shark. Strophios is clearly a misguided individual. Most likely indoctrinated in college communism. Perhaps he could enlighten all of us common folk and show us anywhere in the world where socialism has ever worked.
Here's a fact, You cannot put 50 million people on a Government run Insurance program and it be Deficit Neutral!
Here's another, Obama knows that but said it anyway! Natural progression in thought makes him a liar!
You said
"You refuse to answer the arguments I present"
What arguments have you actually made? Could it be the comment about every other first world nation has universal health care? Of all of these Countries how many are drowning in debt because of it? You see Strophios it is the debt that will be created that is the foremost concern of most conservatives! Other concerns would be the rationing of care, I can already hear your argument. You will probably say Insurance Companies already ration health care!
Ok if that is so, and it has never been in my case, then the solution is not Government care that will continue to do the same thing but to regulate the health care industry and control it better, not completely!
Right on Texan! How profound.
Dan, I don't think Strophios will agree with you! But who cares.
Where in the world socialism has worked? You kid, right? Depending on what exactly you mean by socialism, you could look at Scandinavia up to all of Europe. If you want examples of communism, simply check the history books: numerous Native American tribes had no conception of property whatsoever. And they were living quite happily until we showed up and destroyed their way of life for our own benefit. (See Thomas Jefferson's thoughts on the subject).
Oh no A Texan, you've raised the specter of government debt, whatever shall I do. Clearly ever country in Europe possessed of universal health care must be in dire economic straits indeed.
Wait, scratch that. Let's actually look at the numbers.
The CIA World Factbook has a nice page ranking countries by public debt as percent of GDP. You will be happy to know that France, Germany, and Canada all rank higher than the US (at 17, 20, and 21, respectively). You will be less happy to know that not only does the US rank only at 22, that such countries as Norway (33), the UK (41), Switzerland (44), the Netherlands (45), Spain (57), Finland (67), Iceland (85), and Denmark (91) all rank below it. For comparison, the United States' public debt (no universal health care) is 60.80% of GDP, Denmark's is 21.80% of GDP.
So, no A Texan, these Countries are not "drowning in debt because of it." We, on the other hand, do seem to be in a great deal of debt, for totally unrelated reasons.
P.S. Source for those figures: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world
P.P.S. Some actual information on what the health care plan is actually like: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090816_10_aw
Gee Strophios I thought you knew punctuation? Here is an example when I say "Of all of these Countries how many are drowning in debt because of it?" Notice the question mark at the end of the sentence? That makes it a question not a statement!
So your bright idea is to add Universal health care to add to the debt? Son, your bread ain't all the way done is it? Clue me in Genius, how will your messiah make this deficit neutral? I see that you are great at looking up statistics but what do those stats have to do with debt Universal health care will create? Try again.
Switzerlands health care is 11.5 of GDP, and its population is not even 8 million, how is this even comparable to the US? By the way health care cost are rising in Switzerland!
Dear Shark,
Love the satire and the HUB, but I think we are already on the way to the government running everything. Think about it, first the banks, then the car industry, soon health care and then...
The government ruins everything it touches, starting with the break up of Ma Bell in the 80's. Then they bankrupted social security, medicare, medicaid, destroyed Amtrak, put an inept CEO in charge of GM who "doesn't know anything about cars", made cash for clunkers into a big brother op and now they want to kill our parents. Gee, where do I sign up?
Alright, so your question is answered... none of them are drowning in debt because of it. Thus, clearly universal health care is not the ridiculous drain you think it to be.
Adding health care to the debt? I don't think you actually know anything about the bill. Most of what is in the bill relates to regulating what private insurers can and cannot due, along with giving people in the individual or small group markets the ability to access the large group markets (and thus get better rates) through government "gateways." The public option (i.e. the most expensive piece of things) plays a relatively minor part in all this. Thus, the costs you envision are not near as high as you think. Besides, if every other wealthy industrialized nation manages universal coverage (while having less debt than we do), then it is clearly possible to do. The US just has a legacy of incredibly poor fiscal management (two wars, for instance, or that the US's military budget is almost as large the combined defense spending of the rest of the world).
As for Switzerland, health care costs are rising here to, by the by. Also, if you don't like the comparison to Switzerland, try the UK, or Denmark, or the Netherlands. Or any other wealthy industrialized nation.
Madame X, "now they want to kill our parents"? I don't think you actually know anything about the health care bill (any of them).
So the original plan was not to try and insure 50 million people or at least a portion of that number? You keep telling us we don't know anything about the bill but you certainly are not explaining whats in it very well, just like your messiah!
If the US wants to insure all people it will cost the US money they do not have thus creating debt, this is not brain surgery! Health care in the UK is not great! Health care in Canada is not great! Why do you prop these failures up as a model we should emulate?
"The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[11][12] The WHO study has been criticized in a study published in Health Affairs for its methodology and lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings.[13] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[14] The U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries.[nb 1][15]"
"The Commonwealth Fund, in its annual survey, "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall", compares the performance of the health care systems in Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada and the U.S. Its 2007 study found that, although the U.S. system is the most expensive, it consistently underperforms compared to the other countries.[26] Two differences between the U.S. and the other countries in the study is that the U.S. is the only country without universal health insurance coverage, and the highest cost of malpractice insurance than any nation in the study."
It appears health care in the US is not that great either, and is in point of fact worse than those countries you cited.
As for debt: it's relatively simple, you just cut some spending. Perhaps cut defense spending down to a reasonable size, cut earmarks, there are plenty of options.
Information on the health care bills: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090816_10_aw
Sources for quotations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_Un and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care#Health_ca
Cut defense spending during two wars? You are a couple french fries short of a happy meal! Truthdig is a liberal site dedicated to pushing liberal ideology, not credible! The day it takes two years for me to get a New Doctor then I will say our health care system is worse! The day it is a common practice for non medical personnel to diagnose an illness OVER THE PHONE and then prescribe medication is the day I will say Health care in the UK is better!
Sources cited-Common sense
"Cut defense spending during two wars?" Yes, because it's still insanely high. Many examples of F-22 syndrome: developing and producing a weapon which will never be used because the conflict for which it was intended will now not occur. Similarly, missile defense shield syndrome, spending money on technologies which do not work for the obvious purpose of inflaming foreign relations. Personally, I don't think dollars need to be spent in either case.
Wow, your sources amaze me, so credible! How about you cite some actual facts or actual data. I have provided numerous citations which argue (through a large aggregation of data) that health care in the US is not as good in those countries with universal health care. You have provided your opinion backed up by unsourced, likely apocryphal, examples.
P.S. On Truthdig, your belief that it is biased does not automatically discount it, it simply means that you should examine the information with a critical eye. Furthermore, your argument against it (it's "dedicated to pushing liberal ideology") means that I should never listen to a thing you say, since you are clearly pushing conservative ideology.
We should never cut military spending during wartime, it may turn out we need exactly the weapon that has been deep sixed!
As far as listening to me, You are exactly right in one of my Hubs I say not to take anything as factual if it cannot be independently proven, that includes anything I may say!!
Yes my belief about Truthdig does automatically discount it! Same with wikipedia or any site where the info can be changed by anybody, and Blogs are nothing more than someones opinion!
Below you will find why I prefer the American health care system, its not that the sources you cite are wrong its just I know my Doctors and will choose them over bureaucrats any day of the week!
Strophios: "Figures lie and liars figure"
Please dig a little deeper and you will learn that countries report infant mortality differently than the US. Some countries don't even count a live birth unless the child lives for 3 days. Switzerland doesn't count the deaths of babies less than 30 centimeters in their infant mortality calculations.
Our technology allows us to deliver babies at a much lower birth weight than other countries on your precious list. Babies that would have been stillborn (and not included infant mortality stats) are given a few days or more of life. Ironically, our technology, our dedicated nurses and doctors, and our proper reporting techniques make us look bad on your convenient list.
Do your homework.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[11][12] The WHO study has been criticized in a study published in Health Affairs for its methodology and lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings.[13] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[14] The U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries.[nb 1][15]"
A Texan, a missile shield versus the Taliban? An air superiority fighter versus Iraqi insurgents? Those programs make no sense. We would save more lives and do this country significantly more good diverting funding from those pointless projects into universal health care.
Your sources are unhelpful to your point. The article regarding the UK proves poor response to a possible epidemic. Unfortunate, but that does not indicate any wider problems in the NHS. Simply that their specific response to H1N1 is flawed. The piece about Canada does not prove anything either. You may notice that the doctor quoted had been fact finding in Europe (i.e. the bastion of universal health care) and was discussing a transition to a system with competition between a public option and private insurers, while maintaining universal care, i.e. something like the system the United States would move to under the current health care bills on offer.
nicomp, I suppose I stand corrected regarding infant mortality. That does nothing, however, to ameliorate the United States' position in all other rankings. You have simply discounted one of numerous statistical measures of the Unites States' poor health care.
Strophios I am not trying to prove anything to you! I am showing you other peoples opinions of those health care systems, and pointing out that in fact that they do routinely diagnose things over the phone, that doesn't sound better to me!
I say increase Defense spending and decrease welfare!
1st, there are rouge nations that would love to strike the homeland, we can be hit, we've seen it twice in 60 years.
The president is suddenly willing to take the public option off the table--why. Because as his people are saying, this is really not the heart of the plan---so what is?
Simple, he keeps talking about insuring the uninsured, 35 million of those just happen to be illegals.
He plans on funding this thing with cuts in medicare by as much as 40%. Giving 35 million illegals insurance on the back of the elderly.
In addition to medicare cuts he is planning on cutting the defense budget. The Pentagon already competes against every social program we have in the fed, budget for every dollar they get.
Barney Frank and Obama say we don't need the Raptor Jet. In their words it is at least 25 years more adcvanced then anything anyone else has----good that's what we want, our military to always have the edge.
So why would he and the dems be so willing to sell our own citizens out? Because this is no more a health bill than cap and spend is an enenergy bill.
No this is a plan to guarantee millions of new voters are tied to the dem party. The 35 mil new citizens will be forever grateful to el presidente for granting them amnsety and then giving them free health ins.
But remember, it doesn't end with the 35 mil because once a citizen they are allowed to bring up to 15 family members to the country.
Anyone care to do the math---35 million X 15 = democrats in power forever, and our current 1 trillion dollar deficit look like a day at the candy store.
Stro, I do find most of your comments to be both insulting and immature. You write and react like a college student. You haven't had enough of life's experiences, both good and bad, yet.
I never said I have all of the answers as you tried to say, but I certainly have had much more of life's experiences then you have had, yet.
But I took the time to respond to you about "some" of my personal experiences. If all you got from that was I thought I know everything, then unfortuantely you got nothing from my response.
Maybe you should read it again.
The Shark
(scrolls over Strophios's comments) Very interesting Hub and comments. Shark this was a very touching story, thank you for sharing and I'm very sorry for your loss.
Hi Jiberish, thank you and God Bless.
shark
Shark, I gather you are satisfied with the status quo; where the boardroom’s of wealth and influence dictates the human condition... I never heard mention of a solution; only the disdain for the leadership that controls the executive office... I would like to pose a solution to our nations systemic-condition that causes it to flounder about lacking direction for sound decisions that are inclusive civil and selfless…Well here is one solution, an answer to the bickering on whom should be the responsible decision-maker…
How about implementing the Constitution so that the citizenry has control of governance? I say, yes and here is how you do it…
The constitution has all the procedural rule structure for anyone to fill in the blanks as to who is the decision maker. Now providing the people with can-solutions ~ three top best inclusive, civil and selfless solutions on each issue it would be easy for the people to make the decisions of the day everyday. Its called self-rule… If the correct solutions for resolving problems is out there this is the best way to get the best answer...
Actually, is not the public supposed to be informed by their representatives on all the issues; and does it not suppose to be the voice of the people that makes decisions? I think it says that somewhere – maybe in the Gettysburg Address.
Maybe I'm wrong; but I think if all the votes were taken on legitimate issues, statistically, this would produce the most sound answers...
So, I have to say, to berate the status quo only legitimizes the opinion of the ruling class holding the influence and wealth in that the public does not know how to make its voice heard.
I must say, it’s a very thought provoking post, thanks for the opportunity to vent...
I don't disagree with reform, but let's make it reform not a takeover. As for profits, you are correct I have no objection to corporations making a profit no more than I do you making a profit---called your paycheck.
So are we now supposed to decide in this new America what type of companies are allowed to make profits?
So how about Life Insurance companies, maybe they shouldn't make a profit either. Why should that be allowed on the price of insuring your income against death? Maybe we need a govt take over of the life ins. co's. too. Then we could have a national premium set by the govt on a all must have program, and we could have a new life ins tax.
Should doctors be allowed to make a profit? Why should they make a profit on the back of the sick and dying?
I guess they should just be a unionized govt employee with a min wage paycheck.
And what about hospitals? Why should a building full of sick and dying be allowed to make a profit? Obviously if this were allowed it would be some kind of perverted joke.
Hospitals should be nationalized and run on a neutral budget.
Then we come to the real demons in all of this----the pharmacutical companies. Now there's a group that should never be allowed to make a profit. The CEO's and board members should be sent to GITMO as terrorists.
Then we have the minor leaguers, nurses---god they shouldn't be allowed to make profits. They definetly should be a union min wage worker.
Then we get to the street, abulence drivers. My god, imagine making a profit off of people that have had something terrible happen and just need a ride to the hospital.
This should be a govt run program with min wage drivers, we could use illegals because then it would be a job Americans wouldn't want to do.
Hey we got this thing all figured out, the govt is the solution to all of it.
While we're at it, do you really think dentists should be allowed to make a profit on people vulnerable with tooth pain and disease?
Now that we have change you can believe in as our national policy, the limits are endless on the things the govt can take over to make our lives better.
And they do such a good job at admistering these programs too, look at the recent success of the cash for layabout program for cars. Let's see they have paid out 7% so far and have many car dealers in danger of collapsing from holding to much debt on vehicles already sold.
But what the heck---why should they be allowed to make a profit?
The Shark
Well done. You have a great writing style and you made a very good point with this hub! I really enjoyed reading it and i thought it was very thought provoking. thanks!
here's a story about joe Q. public,joe goes to work like a good worker bee,unlike the rest of the worker bee's joe is smart and hard working,so joe is moving up the ladder very quickly,one night there is a accident resulting in pure chlorine gas being dispersed in the department where joe is working,sending joe to the hospital,joe is out of work for a week,when joe returns to work joe is fired for no reason.but joe is a trooper he keeps on moving enrolls in a quick job training class and looks to the future with bright eyes full of hope.Joe receives a couple of bills in the mail from the hospital,saying joe owes 5000,joe calls the insurrance company to fix this misunderstanding,the insurrance company explains to joe that his coverage was dropped (nevermind that joe was still paying his premiums)joe asks why?and the insurance company explains that joe has a pre-existing condition,joe produces medical records showing that this is not true,joe is in perfect health,joe gets regular check ups and physicals from the V.A. the insurance company want budge they have made their minds up that joe has a pre-existing condition with out any medical proof and totally discounting medical records from hospital doctors.Now joe has 5000 worth of new debt,and has the "pre-existing condition"label on his back,making it damn near impossible for joe to get insurance,but joe is lucky,he's a vet and can go to the V.A. for treatment,so it's not that pressing of a situation for joe.but a lot of people are not so lucky.Joe Q. Public is me.I have a "pre-existing condition"and I am strong as a ox,perfect health.This decision was made by someone sitting behind a desk miles away that I never met.someone who must hangout with god,because they saw my medical records from the hospital and decided that even the doctors didn't know what they was talking about,despite a clean bill of health,they decided that I have a "PRE-Existing Condition"thats whats going on with the insurance companies in America,down right FRAUD for profits,but go ahead keep your eyes and ears closed and run your mouths while Corporate America and their lapdog republicans continue to screw ALL AMERICANS WITH TWELVE INCHES OF RUSTY PIPE.Bill Yon:the truth today will be the truth tommorrow no matter how you spin it.
Ok if you have a great govt plan from the VA why are you using private health insurance?
Obviously you are not in "perfect health" if you have a pre- existing condition and now need treatment for a pre-existing condition.
Insurance reform could address some of these things if Obama wasn't so head strong on making it a govt take over as opposed to real reform. A take over of private industry is not reform, it is what it is, a take over.
Bill a quick lesson about insurance, it is a pool of money paid by customers and covers bills of other customers that get sick. It is understood that not all members will be sick in one year , so the premium from one covers another. As a customer, you expect your company to be diligent in their underwriting, because poor underwriting would mean taking on customers that will be known to have to start drawing on benefits right away depleting the pools money. Thereby driving up the cost of the insurance to all others in the group. Obviously some customers end up using benefits right away, but not knowingly taking on such customers.
What Obama proposes is a take all govt plan, regardless of pre-existing conditions, meaning this can only serve to drive up costs wildly. Which can only be covered by tax hikes to us working people. Maybe you are ok with that, but I for one am paying my share and I am sure some other's share as well.
What's next, people that can't get life insurance because of health issues---do we owe them too?
One final note, you are always screaming about corporate America and profits. Would you prefer a non corporate America and total govt run country? The Russians tried it and it didn't work out to well.
I know you are hopeful to get a children's book published next year, are you forgoing all profits? If not why, is it due to personal greed?
The Shark
I do not have a pre-existing condition shark.that label was placed on me by a desk jockey somewhere that I have never met.for what reason I do not know.but it's something that I have to spend time and money to get straightend out.you understand?You people scream about death panels and all this nonsense when the insurance companies are already making life and death decisions concerning their customers,they make those decisions based upon numbers,open up your eyes,stop listening to the burkes and look at whats going on right now.I am not for a government run country,and yes I am working towards getting my childrens book published among other things,I am a entrepeneur,so in my eyes greed is good,as long as you are not hurting some one to make that profit.
Bill as usual you know nothing about what you are talking about. Your complaining about an error logged into your health history, and you think a government plan will be administered better with less errors? In the words of one of your illustrious leaders, Barney Frank, what planet do you spend most of your time on? Your not unlike most liberals, you want something and want others to pay for it.
Did you even bother to read my explanation of how insurance works, and how a govt take all plan can only drive costs through the roof.
The Shark
liberal,conservative,these are nothing more than labels,you stand by a party,that claims to be conservative,claims to be religous but in truth they are not,if they was we wouldn't be in this situation,I'm a american citizen,A veteran,and a hard working man,you are too blind too see that the republicans are only using you as a voting block,tell you what you want to hear,and do the total opposite,look at all the lies and "misinformation" they are spreading,nothing more than lies and conspiracy theories and you are eating it up,the republicans are playing off of race and religion while lieing through their teeth,they are looking like a bunch of fools to the world.spreading "misinformation" thats designed to play on people fears to divide up the country,at a time when we are just coming out of a recession,still stuck in two wars,(one started by a lie)this is the time when we all should be united to solve these problems,but we are not,and that my friend is a damn shame.
Hi Bill, the war in Afghanastan belongs tothe community leader, he's the one that now has 62,000 troops there, and considering sending about 30k more! This from the guy that promised to "bring the troops home."
How's hope and change working out on that?
a couple of months ago a man was murdered.rememember the doctor?right after bill oreily made a remark about him on his show.remember that?yesterday they found a census burea worker dead with a note around his neck saying "FED".in rural kentucky,what do you think about that?would you say that is "taking a bite out of liberalism"?Do you understand now why it is dangerous to spread lies like the republicans are doing?can you even comprehend the damage that is being done by these fools?Or are you enjoying every minute of it?How can you support the republican party when you KNOW that they have lied,and are still lying to your face?change your name to "THE OSTRICH" because your head is stuck in the sand.
Shark do you not hang out much anymore?
Hi Tex, this is the busiest time of year at my office, Sept to Dec. Thank God it's also the time we make that word that liberals hate ---Profits!!!
Also, there hasn't been much new stuff---Obama overexposing himself daily on the health insurance for losers program.
It was good to take a little break from all the maddness too.
I got involved locally during the congressional break to try and call out our uselss congressman to hold a town hall.
But I think I've got a few new things to comment on, so I should have some new postings this week.
On a positive note I am going to see that great American, Brian Wilson in conceert this week.
the Shark
PS: I like your new handle photo---cool
Shark,
Wonderful job, Obama couldn't have read it better.
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Comments
Human issue or not, our (U.S.) constitution prohibits the federal government from participating in socialized medicine. The correct procedure would be to add an amendment to the constitution that awards this power to Washington. Instead, we have a mish-mash of state and federal organizations that run inefficiently and do not properly server the public interest.
National Health Care, a Human Issue
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National Health Care, a Human Issue
Tom T says:
5 months ago
Great Hub Keep them coming...even if they are dripping with sarcasm.