Neda Agha Soltani: Photo of Wrong Woman Posted Worldwide?
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French TV Station Claims Wrong Photo of Iranian Martyr Circulated
I came across this claim by accident.
I was searching for letter writing campaigns for Americans who wish to register their disapproval of the violent and oppressive acts of the current Iranian government against the election protesters.
Memoire Vive TV, a blog about French television, claims that while trying to find a photo of Neta Soltani, the young philosophy student who was gunned down while standing on the sidelines of the protests in Iran, they discovered that two women named 'Neda Soltani' were posted on Facebook, with two separate emails and two different profiles.
The women in both photos look very similar, so much so that both photos are circulating around the internet and in world news as photos of a single person: the 'Neda Soltani' who was shot.
When Memoire Vive TV tried to contact both Nedas through the email addresses provided at Facebook, the Neda in the scarf responded immediately that although she was flattered to have the name of a political martyr, she was not the Neda Soltani who died but rather a young woman of the same general age with the same name.
She immediately removed her photo from Facebook.
I was directed to Memoire Vive link from Nico Pitney's live blog of the Iran protests at Huffington Post.
I have to say, I find this assertion of the existence of two Nedas troubling. First, to my eye, these two women look like the same person to me, except one is wearing a scarf and posing formally and the other is not wearing a scarf and is in western dress.
Second, how do we know any of these claims are true?
Certainly we know that Neda died.
We all saw that with our own eyes. But the Iranian government is already claiming that Neda's death was staged by 'terrorists' who want to overturn the recent election results. Were there really ever two Nedas on Facebook? Or is this the Iranian government just doing what it can to confuse the issue and try to make Neda's very real death look like a hoax?
It seemed strange as well that just finding examples of either of these photos that I could use or even copy was very difficult. It took me awhile. Maybe it's just my internet ineptitude, but many attempts yielded a blank page or were blocked. That almost never happens for me with photos, but it happened many times with these before I was successful.
I am personally upset by the current situation in Iran and I am in the process of gathering information for a hub on how Americans can participate in a letter writing campaign.
Ebrahim Yazdi is a more moderate public figure in Iran who was taken from his hospital bed on Sunday and placed under arrest. He had a medical emergency shortly after being arrested and was released and sent back to the hospital for emergency surgery. Many Iranians have been arrested since the weekend. They are rounding people up, anyone they can find.
Ebrahim Yazdi's son was on The Daily Show Monday night. When asked what Americans can do about events in Iran, he said they could write letters to the Iranian embassy asking why the government is responding in this violent and abusive manner.
Of course, there is no Iranian Embassy in the U.S. We do not have diplomatic relations with Iran. Even The Daily Show website has no address posted for those who wish to comply and send a letter. So I was off on a search for another way.
You can watch the clip of Jon Stewart's interview with Yazdi's son by clicking this link.
So far, all I have found in regard to an organized letter writing campaign is an effort started through Amnesty International. You can participate in Amnesty International's letter writing campaign calling for an end to human rights abuses in Iran by clicking on the link embedded in this sentence.
I'm still researching other peaceful actions Americans can take to help change things for the better for the people in Iran.
I do think that we have an opportunity now to engage this repressive government in a peaceful way by applying global pressure and making it clear everyone is watching and the repressive tactics cannot be sustained. I'm personally weary to the bone of political rhetoric and would just like to do whatever I can, however small and seemingly useless, to help.
In the meantime, I thought this news item about Neda's photo was confusing and troubling and that people here a HP might be interested and might be able to shed some light on what is going on with it. If anyone has any better information, do post it.
One of the most disturbing facets of this entire incident is the lack of access to good information.
I'll be back in a day or two with a hub on what we can do if we choose.
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Comments
I have an idea, lets invite the perpatrators to our government's 4th of July Party at OUR embassies all around the globe...celebrating independence...and maybe we could apolgize for instigating this violent act..."just words"?
Hi Elena--I agree, I'd rather have as much info as I can get even if much of it is faulty and be left to sort through it for accuracy. To my mind, that is preferable to nothing. But as you say, throwing bad info out could indeed be a tactic--that was my immediate reaction.
bigguy--I don't see why we should apologize to the Iranian government for anything. I don't understand what you mean by "just words." I'm missing your meaning here--I'm thinking you're being sarcastic? I've lost my sense of humor on this topic. Don't see it as all that funny on any level actually.
Interesting story. I always like your view of the news, it's always a bit different and very thoughtful. The two pictures do look very similar to me -- but for the eyes. I looked close back and forth to see if this is just a close resemblance or if they are photos of the same person.
I tried some of my usual portrait drawing measurements on both to see how close the proportions are. Close, not identical. The woman in the scarf has a very slightly longer face, a longer upper lip. Not by much but it's there. The biggest difference is in the eyelids.
Likeness is in the eyes, if you draw the eyelids accurately you have the likeness, because other than color everyone's iris and pupil looks pretty much the same barring cataracts and so on. The woman in the top photo has heavier eyelids and creased lower eyelids. The woman in the lower photo has slightly wider eyes and no creases on her lower eyelids. The shape of the lower lid is very different.
The upper lid is different too, not as heavy in the woman with the scarf.
They're both beauties, both have beautiful eyes in different ways. Makeup would not eliminate the depth of creases on the first informal photo's eyes to make them look that smooth. What would do that is if eyes from another photo were Photoshopped in. They do look very similar, but my view is that they're not identical. The resemblance is more like I'd see with cousins or sisters. Their features may be common for their ethnic background.
Just an observation to add to your excellent article. It's a subtle difference and makeup does confuse the issue, but I was used to looking for the real structures under the makeup when I did portrait drawing because that was what would make the likeness. I could fudge anything else especially if I fudged in the direction of "more attractive", people rarely complain about flattering portraits! But if I got the eye shape and expression right and the mouth in the right ballpark I'd have the likeness.
Mouth is similar, asymmetrical in the same direction a little wider to our right (her left). Different, but some of that may be expression. It'll be interesting if anyone examines these photos carefully for evidence of tampering.
This innocent young woman’s death was such a tragedy…War, is more real to us than ever before because we are standing on the sidelines watching it on TV. Our world is in such turmoil…What you see in Iran’s police force (it’s a police state you know) is showing it’s ugly face in the US thanks to the patriot act…Good story pgrundy...
Positive energy is more substantial than we think. A record of protest exists where none did before. People might think "Oh, what's one hub, one comment, one person going to do?" and the answer is clear: it's a matter of record.
Great hub. I don't watch the news, so had not realized there was any doubt about the young woman's identity. Is there any way to ascertain when the two Facebook accounts were opened, and the profiles updated?
Robert--Thank you for those professional and helpful observations. After reading your comment I went back and looked back and forth again and for the life of me I'm still not sure. But I take your word for it, as I am not a portrait painter and good thing, too! I notice that even people who can draw bodies well struggle with the human face. It's very difficult isn't it? I used to draw cartoons and I'd do these renderings of my kids and our family when they were small. They were caricatures actually---you know, exaggerate some defining feature but mess up everything else. They loved it. They pestered me endlessly, "Draw us Mommy, come on!"
Nancy--yes it's horrible. It amazes me too. They have so much more to lose by protesting yet they got out there and did it. When Bush stole the 2000 election we just let it happen. It bothers me that we are so complacent here.
Teresa--I agree about the power of positive energy. Look at what Gandhi accomplished in India. I see an opportunity here, and I hope it ends for the better. I don't know about Facebook and their records--that's an excellent question and one I will have to research. Some news agency surely checked on that. I'll see if I can find out. Thanks for your comment.
I think the two of the pics are of same woman, do you see these closely?
Hi jann--Yes to me it looks like that too. I don't know really know what's up with these reports of the two being different women. That's what I mean--I think something is fishy here, that it's maybe the government trying to make the murder look like hoax.
More about media manipulation in Iran:
What a waste of a beautiful and probably very talented young lady. I read they even tried to arrest Rafsanjani and his family.
Hi Harry Wilkens--Thanks for the link. I did read the article, which is very opinionated, but maybe it is leaning more towards the truth. I can't say, I don't know enough about it. It's hard to believe however that all those young people would come out over a minor difference between the two politicians. It does seem more likely to me that, even if their hopes were misplaced, they were hoping for a more open government and were slapped down. That's not to say of course that Moussavi is Gandhi. But maybe some of his younger supporters were hoping for change.
RVDaniels--I heard that too. I think it looks bad for the protesters and anyone associated with them. What surprises me is the differences between our countries when it comes to dissent. We are not (usually) brutalized for dissent, yet lately we seem not to bother. They risk a lot, yet millions of them come out into the streets. I don't understand that--I mean that seriously as in, I don't understand why that is. I feel like I'm missing some critical bit of info or something. Or several bits.
I hadn't realised this had happened to this poor girl and her family - but have tagged and twittered this hub - cheers
Hi ajcor--I heard on the news last night that now the government has evicted her family from their apartment and they have also refused to give them the girl's body. It just gets worse. Today there is supposed to be a demonstration of mourning for her. I'm glad you stopped by.
So sad for whoever died. Interesting read, I had not come across this in the UK
Unfortunately, I saw her death video on youtube this morning. My heart is still very heavy. Iran was a relatively peaceful country before. But now ... .... also the way that Iranian Govt. is handling the whole situation will aggravate it more; one cannot go against it's own citizens.
I really like your thoughts on the topic.
Hmmm. To me they are exactly the same. They are different poses, so you can't measure like that. It's spooky and impossible, unless she has a twin? But then why the same name? Could someone else be using her identity to some extent? I'm feeling quite off about this situation. I'm so glad I came across this. Thanks Pam.
Thanks Frieda. To me it still looks like the same girl too. The whole situation is horrible. I feel very sad for her and her family, and all those protesters.
Looks like the same person to me.Go Pam Go. Butterfly effect!
It does sound rather odd. I'm sure Iran's trying to spin its way out of this one.
The two photos certainly look similar. A very interesting theory. I hope we find out the answer.
Hi LG & Christoph--Yes, weird. I do think it's probably just spin. Thanks for stopping by.
Great hub - thought provoking. Especially the bit about the pictures being blocked. I can only see the top picture - the lower one is missing... Maybe I'm just a technomoron, or maybe not...?
Hi Marie--I can see both pictures. Weird. I don't know what is happening with this at this point. It sounds like the government has cracked down and that's that. It's very discouraging. Thanks for your thoughts.
interesting
don't know her
nice pix. thanks
Two pictures are a woman??
I don't think so.
Isn't that a cross around her neck?...
Elena. says:
6 months ago
Pam, gotta love your Amazon capsule! :-) On a more serious note, I read a few op-ed articles yesterday on this very topic, and most addressed the fact that not being able to verify sources is just as bad as not having any information at all as it has potential to generate a lot of contra-info (can't be verified, so I'm throwing as much crap as I want to cyberspace). I don't subscribe, I'd rather have information than total blackout, even if it means I won't be able to ascertain how much of it is fact and how much is "fiction".