Once SAVED always SAVED
71
Once forever
This is a very touchy subject that has deep repercussions all round the world in the different Church communities.
It is the thin line of where Religion ends and Being a Believer starts.The biggest enemy is believing in the wrong thing.
Jesus is God and he came into the world like a human so that he could suffer as a human , as we suffer So he took the sufferings that we have and became them for us. This is the area that people have a hard time trying to adjust to. Jesus was our sin and suffering, our punishment, our torment, our separation from God, our weakness, our bad habits, our judgement, our condemnation, our hate, etc, in our place, for one reason and one reason only, and that being, that he loves us, and he successfully completed our salvation and salvation from destruction with everlasting torment because of being a sinner. So we can confidently say that our sins have been dealt with completely.
GALATIONS 5;1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
1 CORINTHIANS 7;23
Ye are bought with a price; be ye not servants of men.
Talking about freedom, the true freedom we have, and I do not mean political, but the freedom that we have received from GOD, is the very thing all Christians should study and understand and get it settled in their minds that they have a new identity and that identity is the very nature of GOD, and this being JESUS CHRIST who in turn is the will of GOD.
There is one area that I would like to look at, and this area is the area that I recognise as the only area that a Christian would/could have a struggle in, meaning that all his struggles point to this area. This area has a name and its called "Unbelief".
Before I go into the scriptures I need to plant some seeds in your mind so that a better
understanding of what Jesus has done can be laid down
"GRACE"
Greek : Charis
Grace is what God does freely without restriction for the lost because Jesus Christ died in their place on the cross.
1) Grace rules out human merit
2) Grace requires only faith in Jesus completed works.
3) Grace has made perfect forever the redeemed person in Gods sight
4) Grace grants and bestows "Christs" merits and standings forever.
5) Christ is Gods Grace .
"JUSTIFICATION"
Greek: Diakaiosis
Justification is a Godly action where an infinitely Holy God lawfully declares a believing sinner to be righteous and acceptable before him, because Jesus Christ has become the sinners sin on the cross as a sinner.
1) Justification is on the foundation of faith and not human works or merit.
2) The sinner becomes righteous in Gods sight when he/she is in Christ.
3) The sinner is justified by God freely without cause thereby he is righteous in “Gods Sight”.
Justification makes no one righteous neither is it the bestowment of righteous, but declares one to be justified, whom God sees as perfected, once and forever, “In” his Son.
"MERCY"
Greek: Eleos
1) Mercy is a form of love determined by the “State” or condition of its objects.
2) The “State” is one of suffering and need while they may be unworthy, and not deserving .
3) God is pleased with exercising mercy instead of sacrifice..
4) I will have mercy not sacrifice.
I stress the importance of understanding the meanings of the above words. All the verses we will be looking at will be relating to the above as primary motive , and this could very well change your degree of maturity in the knowledge of Gods will Jesus Christ
I also encourage you to check every verse with me because I will be quoting from the " KING JAMES VERSION " and you might not be reading the K.J.V and miss out on some deeper meanings
To start off lets go to the "OLD TESTAMENT (O.T)" and see what was said and see how and what Jesus Christ would be like.
ISAIAH 40:29 + 31
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Note: who does all the good things and because of his doing, what are we able to do.
EZEKIEL 36.25-30
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
36:26: A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
36:27: And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
36:28: And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
36:29: I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
36:30: And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
Lets look at the time when Jesus spoke to the religious men of that time.
JOHN 5; 39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me
The word "THEY" is referring to the scriptures or the words in the scriptures. So we as BELIEVERS need to take a concentrated look at the verses that tell us more about Jesus Christ, what he has done for us and to see to what extent we can go looking at what he took upon himself, for us and at the end we may distinguish the difference of walking in Christ or unbelief, and how to help others in unbelief.
ROMANS 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
ROMANS 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
ROMANS 5:9-11
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
5:10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
5:11: And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
ROMANS 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
ROMANS 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous..
ROMANS 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Note; The word “IN” is used, not the word “TO” this describes a humans present condition before he realises Christ has been crucified for him.
This is one verse that says that we are dead to sin and sin is not the separating factor in our lives any longer
ROMANS 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Note : the word dead in these verses do not mean a person in the grave it means a person that has been baptised as an adult in the water and this being the blood of JESUS this also means a person has died when he handed himself over to GOD and going into the water is the action of dying and accepting the blood of JESUS as our forgiveness this is when our sin dies, and this being again Jesus Christ on the cross.
ROMANS 6.14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
ROMANS 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness..
ROMANS 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life..
ROMANS 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God
ROMANS 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
ROMANS 7:17
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
ROMANS 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
ROMANS 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
.ROMANS 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness..
ROMANS 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
ROMANS 8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
8:30: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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GALATIANS 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified..
Note: The faith of Jesus Christ has saved us and not our faith, thus the word "of" . means the faith that JESUS CHRIST had, saved us and made us at peace with GOD
GALATIANS 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
ROMANS 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth..
EPHESIANS 1:4-6
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
1:6: To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved..
2 CORINTHIANS 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2 CORINTHIANS 10:7
Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.
This gets to the point that I mentioned earlier " UNBELIEF".
We have a choice to make, and that is divided into two subjects.
1) Either Jesus has done it for me . (Righteousness of GOD)
or
2) I must do it myself. (Self
righteousness)
So the choice is always yours. And if you find yourself having a hard time with life you will see that you are trying to do it yourself, and at the same time you have taken your eyes off JESUS and this is denying that JESUS has done it already.
When you find yourself in a never ending circle or cycle it is because you are trying to achieve self righteousness and you are taking control of your life, so your eyes are off Jesus, forgetting that he being the light and freedom, you started looking into the darkness therefore you start walking in darkness but thanks and praise to God that we have forgiveness in Jesus and he washes us clean all the time and never even knows that we have sinned. Once we are covered by the blood of Jesus we are clean forever.
What are the things that cause us to doubt GOD and cause us to stumble? what is the pest that eats at our lives that gives us a false sense of security ?Well here they are and don't feel condemned because there is no condemnation because of our freedom in Christ
GALATIANS 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
So if you are doing the above then you will see that you are denying or restricting yourself to the fact that you are actually the one below.
GALATIANS 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Now if there is a rule to live by then take note of the next verse.
GALATIANS 6:15-16
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
6:16: And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
2 CORINTHIANS 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new
This is also where you can see the difference between “Born again” compared to “Re-born”
EPHESIANS 2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
There is a reason why Christians also walk in a defeated life style where everything seems negative and hard to get to situations, by this I mean why do the thoughts of the Christians go against what God has done for us. There is in the world a false "belief" system and this belief is the centring of mans thoughts on the "leader" weather called the pastor or whatever designation he has, and whatever he says is gospel and thereby being led astray. There is a way to check/see if you are being led astray.
1John 4, 2-3
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
:4:3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Matth 24.5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
James 2.9
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
ADVICE;
Do not submit to man (Matth 6:24 Jam 2.8-9)
Do not let systems control your thoughts (Coll 2.8 Rom 12.2)
Do not let man steal Christ from you (Rom 16.18 Gal 1.6-7)
Do not think you can pay GOD or rob GOD (1 Cor 6.20 15.20 Rom 11.16)
Do not be condemned or judged by man ( Rom 5.9-11 8.38-39 Gal 2.20)
Do not think you can please GOD. Jesus Christ did it for you (Mth 3.17 Col 1.13)
Therefore all this involvement must be checked at where you are at, there is a computer term that could describe the situation you may find your mind in and this term being a state of mind " GIGO" in short for Garbage In Garbage Out .
So whatever you subject your mind to via, the ears and eyes will affect you in your outlook towards God and man.
Example:
If I were to hear continually from the pulpit/TV that I should strive to please God in one way or another, then my thinking will start to develop a pattern of "UNBELIEF". So if I were to hear the message that says who I am in Christ Jesus and never hear anything but who Jesus is then I will start to " BELIEVE" and this leads to a relationship with God and gaining a God kind of " FAITH".
The "Believer" must understand the above very clearly, it is the only gospel "THE GOOD NEWS" he has and the only chance forever.
The only way to enter the salvation of GOD is to come to him and agree with him that we are sinners and ask him to take control of our life, then we are able to walk one step further and that you need to be washed by GOD in the blood of Jesus which in doing, acknowledges that you believe GOD’S salvation for you. The washing is the water baptism and this is the only works a Believer needs to do indicating theirs sincere attitude to GOD in that he means business in receiving his forgiveness the salvation of GOD. It also acknowledges the blood of Jesus is God’s forgiveness of sin.
ROMANS 12 1-5
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
12:3: For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
12:4: For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
12:5: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Hope this has added to your knowledge of God and his pre-ordained plan for our lives.
GB all
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Comments
Hi Carrie
Yes Jesus was predestined to save us, and it was predestined that we should walk in him and eat once again of the Tree of Life.
It is also predestined for us to be Christs on Earth until the end of the world.
Spreading the word of God about Jesus is evidence that we are Christs in both sense of the word just like Jesus is God and Man
Re:13:8: ............... Lamb slain from the foundation of the
God had set up salvation before man was even created, it was Gods plan before the earth was formed to be inhabited. The reasons are clear, in the midst of the garden there are 2 trees not only one. Adam and Eve were eating of all the other trees and also the"Tree of Life" God told Adam about the "Tree of Good and Evil" but look carefully what he said
Ge:2:17: .............: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die
If Adam was never going to eat of the tree, God would never have said that also. Nothing in the garden at that time was dying so dying was not seen by Adam yet, so he would not have understood death, he was eating of the Tree of Life.Besides this God told Adam and not Eve, infact Eve was not formed from Adam yet, so when she was in communication with Satan she didnt exactly quote what God had said, so Satan knew how to lie to her.
GOD lives outside of time and came into time to setup salvation at creation, thats why Jesus is the Lamb from the foundation.
GB
Amen. I'm thankful this is confirmed in the correct understanding. The cults falsely believe that God predestined just certain ones to be saved, and indeed misunderstand the Word, as is Satan's purpose! AMEN.
This is seriously a big bang, So you mean you cant become unsaved?
Yes
God will never leave you or forsake you.
Hi Carrie
Well when a man and woman get married they become Husband and Wife.This marriage is not a 50/50 unity, its a "ONENESS" they become one.Like Christ and the Bride.So you could say Christ is dating us at the moment, and the Holy Spirit is preparing us for the marriage union.
GB
In my hub about faithfulness to God, it seems God marries us when we get saved, but the actual feast (the wedding feast, which takes place after a wedding, rather than the rehearsal dinner, which takes place prior to the wedding) is held as shown in the book of Revelation. Is Jewish custom different? Regardless, I am His and He is mine, praise God, and we are one.
You are correct its called engaged, The Holy Spirit has started his perfecting us.
Although we already have the garment, for the wedding, we still have to be transformed by ressurection, or changed in a blink of an eye.
I think this might be yet another doctrine that has two different sides in the Christian faith. I believe we are NOT engaged to the Groom (Christ), but become His bride (are consummated by the blood of the Lamb) when we get saved and are sealed as His. The wedding feast mentioned is after the consummation. In other words, I don't believe we will be consummated with the Lord after resurrection, but rather we are upon salvation.
We are new creatures in Christ right now, Its no more I that liveth.I became less and Christ more. I wouldnt get too involved with much else than this. But think of this.
We are already one with Christ.
Matth, Mark, Luke & John are OT, The NT starts in Acts the day the Holy Spirit came to the believers.
Yes, and being "one" is married to Him, as I believe. We need to behave as a holy bride should, which is what my hub is all about. Praise God, brother. Love you lots!
I dont think one can behave as a holy bride, because we are already the holy bride, The groom is already pleased with his bride, marriage taking place regardless.
Have a good one
Did you read my latest hub, being Faithful to God? It merely relates how we can grieve the Holy Spirit by our choices as His bride. It's encouraging the bride of Christ to be faithful in so many ways. Back to the point of your hub, indeed He saves us and no one else can ever take us away from Him! Praise God!
No not yet, but I will.
You must be careful not to get into bondage by works, Man cannot please God.
God is already pleased with His Son, and we are in him and he is pleased with us in Christ.
Hoo have you ever spoken to a saved Jewish person that knows the old time marriage in Jesus' day? The marriage was consumated when he brought his bride home. She was technically his bride when she was betrothed. ie. Joseph was going to divorce Mary and they had not consumated the marriage but only betrothed not engaged but sort of engaged. I believe that our marriage to the Lamb is patterned after this manner. Including when the groom comes to get us unexpectedly and even He doesn't know when. What do you think? Oh yeah, hi Carrie my sister!
Hi "some-body", I just wanted to leave a couple of scriptures off my hub that leads me to believe we are married to God/Christ upon salvation:
Jeremiah 3:14 "Turn, O backsliding children, said the LORD; for I am MARRIED to you".
"'Behold, days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I WAS a HUSBAND to them,' declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 31:31-32)
HOO, I am in no way teaching works or suggesting bondage to works in this hub. It's about being faithful because we are the bride. We should not behave in such a way as to grieve the Holy Spirit, that's all. Love our Husband because we want to and desire to! Eph:4:30: "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."
Hey Carrie
I am going to tell you something, I have never heard or preached on TV or Radio or pulpit
We are the Church the Body of Christ we are Christ on Earth we are the Bridegroom, we are in Christ we are seated in Christ on the right hand of the Father, we dont even live anymore. The Bride is Israel and more the born again Israelites, thats why they are clothed with the fine linen.The Israelites were always outside of Christ.Thats also why the New Covenant began. It was neccesary for Israel to start realising Jesus is the Messiah, and they are only now doing it, peaise God for that, because this is what Jesus is waiting for, Israel to come to Christ.
So dont go and think I am creating a new religion now. I am a Gentile born again.
Hey nobody
No I have never spoken too a born again Jewish person. The whole marriage but Iknew a few sort of religious ones, except one I witnessed to and he accepted the Lord..
But here is a trick question.
Re:19:7: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Here the wife makes herself ready.......
Re:19:8: And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
her garment is righteousness...............
But here is the tricky bit
Re:19:9: And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
So who are the "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb"
So you must be the brother.
Love ya al
I believe you guys got it. I know we will all have a blast together forever. What a family!
I'd just like to say that I enjoyed your hub and I'm signing on as your fan!
"Grace is what God does freely without restriction for the lost because Jesus Christ died in their place on the cross."
This is not true. There is no forgiveness without repentance.
Luke 17:3 (KJV) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Only The Father can enable us to repent when He calls us to His Son.
John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day
Yes, eventually, all will be saved, but not in this age.
Hi yes2truth
Gods Grace belongs to him, and once we enter into Christ we are covered by his Grace, it is a cloak and promise that God gives us because we cant earn it. Grace is our keeper and security from God because we are in Jesus blood continually.
Repentance is what man does once God has drawn him to himself, and as he completes the drawing process, the road to salvation, he will fall under the promise of God, regardless of what Man says.
Luke 17:3, Is talking about our relanship with believers hence "if thy brother trespass against thee" so thats straight forward, apologise and admit your mistake to your brother.Repent here is admit your mistake.
Repent means....in Greek "metanoia" and "meta" means change, transform, "noia" is mind, so it means change of mind,transform your thinking ways.
Ro:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
GB
Hello GB
Man cannot repent without The Father initiating it - repentance is not of man.
You said that Grace is something God gives freely to the lost. He does no such thing He only gives His Grace to those He has chosen and called. They in turn will have repented at the time of their baptism and rebirth or just before.
Forgiveness is forgiveness whether it be The Lord's forgiveness or our forgiveness and there is no forgiveness without repentance and therefore no Grace for the lost.
Hey yes2truth
So I suppose you are going to heaven then, and you are not a sinner.You are perfect in Gods sight. Great then we will see each other there. Like crossing Westminister Bridge hey
GB
GB means God Bless
Hello Hoo
No, I am not going to heaven, for no one is going to heaven. Christians going to heaven is just another mainstream Christian myth.
Correct, I am not a sinner, I am a Born Again son of God who cannot sin because I am Born of God. Sinners cannot inherit the Kingdom of God which, as it happens, will be here on this earth for a thousand years, for starters. Then there will be a new heaven (sky) and a new earth brought down out of heaven when and where The Father will make His home with men.
Well at least we agree then I am in Christ Born again, like you Born Again, baptised in the Holy Spirit asd speak in Tongues. So whats your view on the resurrection...
Ac:24:15: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
1Th:4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th:4:16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th:4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Joh:5:28: Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
GB
I try not to have views as they tend to lead to error.
There are two resurrections. The first will occur when The Lord returns to this earth to take His Throne - David's Throne. Those who are dead in their graves, who died in the faith will be resurrected first and those that are alive at His coming will be changed in an instant directly afterwards and we will all be raised as Spirit beings to meet the Lord in the air - our atmosphere, not heaven. This is not the rapture either, as taught by mainstream Christianity, the rapture is total error. In the first resurrection the goats (counterfeit Christians) will be separated from the sheep, those called and chosen. This event is elsewhere described as the tares (bearded darnels or counterfeit wheat) which will be separated from the wheat. There will be weeping and wailing and the gnashing of teeth when they discover they will not be inheriting until they have experienced The Lord's correction centre for a while.
The second resurrection is the great white throne tribunal where the lost will be resurrected and have their opportunity to be saved. This occurs after the 1,000 years is over and the adversary has been taken out of harm's way.
And sadly for them, life WAS their chance and they did it their way. God convicted them and they knew what they were doing. God met them and reasoned with them in their heart, where they lived. It mattered not because they would not bow before a holy God. Now they have no choice but to bow to Him, but at the time Satan does, and not in time. It pains Christians to say such things because we all have loved ones that we know that are like this. And we ourselves are not so removed as to remember our stand against the Lord God and we sorrow for those who choose to die instead of live. The choice is not ours to make for them, it is theirs.
yes2truth
I agree on two resurrections for just and unjust......I have done a hub on "Death What now"...which covers this in more depth than will describe here.
I will say I find strange " The Lord's correction centre for a while.". There is no second chance. When we die we are dead and asleep in the grave sinner or no sinner. While we were alive we entered Christ and were born again. so I names will not be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life. But for those who died without Christ, their names will be blotted out of the Lambs book because their sins were not blotted out.
Ac:3:19: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Psalms:69:28: Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous
Re:20:15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Heaven is also covered in my other Hub. Heaven is the throne of God the eternal realm, our Spiritual home Eternal home I have given all three explanations on Heaven in Death what now.
Re:2:11: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Re:20:6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Re:20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Once saved always Saved
GB
Carrie Bradshaw
As this is Hoo's arena I suggest we leave it to him to decide who he allows to comment here and who he does not.
The only things that do not mix are The Truth and lies and unfortunately for you, you are a purveyor of mainstream Cainite-Christian lies. If your analogy of water and oil is a representation of that then I wholly agree.
Hoo
You are totally missing the point regarding the two resurrections when you say this: "There is no second chance."
In order for there to be a "second chance" there has to have been a "first chance" and it's only mainstream Christians that get two chances after they have had a little session in the Lord's correction centre where their religious dross will burnt off, not the lost and unsaved. The lost and unsaved have not had a chance. The lost and the unsaved are being deliberately left alone as lost and unsaved, by The Father, because He is not calling them in this age.
Read this from the Lord's lips and fully take in what He is saying here:
Matt 13:10-16 (KJV) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
The Learners, [erroneously called disciples] (a tiny minority), were given the ability to understand through The Father having called them to His Son. The masses were being held in ignorance by the Devil, which the Father was deliberately allowing to happen. What the Lord set in motion here in the first century is no different today. The masses are not listening today because they cannot listen.
Unfortunately you are still thinking as a mainstream Christian on this point. I fully understand why because mainstream Christianity teaches the lie that salvation is down to man's decision. That's why they use the blasphemous mantra "I accepted Jesus as my saviour". This statement is a lie. This is a tail wagging the dog scenario. Man is in charge here within this evil idea, not The Father.
It's The Father who decides whether or not we are called, not us and He is definitely not calling all of mankind in this age. Once you have taken this Truth on board all the other events of the future begin to make sense.
Y2T
PS I don't carry a hand bag only a two edged sword which slices up mainstream Christians a treat.
As for London I was raised there but left over 25 years ago never to return. Once Anglo-Saxon Englishmen became a minority there I knew it was time to leave.
All you said 98% I agree with, but one thing is for sure, unless one is in Christ he cannot see, or understand because it has to be discerned Spiritually.
De:30:19: I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
God has laid before man a choice, some God called and few were chosen. and the casting of the seeds is done by the believer, on the ground and we already know that not all ground will receive.
Mainstream Christianity doesnt bother me because, I believe in Jesus and his completed works of which I am part of as yourself, so I too test the Spirit to see from where it comes as you are doing, no problem with that. I dont accept the Rapture, because there was no Rapture 100 years ago but now there is. and also in my study on this I came to the conclusion that it was started by mis-quoting the scripture namely "To be Absent in body is to be present with the Lord" where it doesnt imply anything more than Paul having a desire to be with the Lord,but as for all, they have to sleep in First Death (of the Body) and be resurrected at his coming.
2Co:5:8: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
All believers are in this position at this moment,we are wating for the Day of the Lord.
Have a read on my other hubs I talk about this also.
Whats with the Anglo-Saxon Englishmen, thing .
GB
This is a very involved, description here, so judging by your many scriptures I presume you don't like using your own words.
Convincing though. Surely why do churches say you could loose your salvation then.
Marcus
I prefer to just understand what the bible says, and means without adding any yeast so to say, as it can have an effect on how one perceives what God is saying, and this is also why there are False beliefs in Church at the moment all caused by wrong use of words in the scriptures and this is equivalent to adding to the word.
Loosing ones salvation is again wrong use of the word in instruction, Like you will get quotes from the Old Covenant that are not relevant anymore because the New Covenant has fulfilled the Old and a New was established
GB.
"Surely why do churches say you could loose your salvation then."
Because their beliefs are based upon religion and in reality their beliefs are in their religion and in their traditions - the traditions of men. Their beliefs are not in the Lord Jesus Christ and The Father alone.
yes2truth
Nice one.
Hoo
"All you said 98% I agree with, but one thing is for sure, unless one is in Christ he cannot see, or understand because it has to be discerned Spiritually."
Correct, but who enables mankind to see Christ? Answer: The Father, not man.
De:30:19: I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
God spoke in OT times knowing full well they would not repsond positively, but He had to say these things so that man had no excuses when standing before Him in the Great White Throne Tribunal. Paul confirms this in Romans 1 when we makes mention of the awesomeness of the creation whereby within that awesomeness man has no excuses for not knowing, for the creation points, by default, to The Creator. As we know, though, he prefers to deny it, because he can do nothing else.
Romans 1:19-20 (KJV) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
"God has laid before man a choice, some God called and few were chosen. and the casting of the seeds is done by the believer, on the ground and we already know that not all ground will receive."
We only have freewill after we are Born Again, not before. We therefore cannot make choices until we have been called. The Truth sets us free. Those who are called but not chosen tend to go astray because religion is more appealing to them. If we are called and chosen He will see to it that we do not go astray for He is the author and finisher of our faith or our walk with Him. The parable of the prodigal son graphically explains this in a worst case senario.
With regard to the ground in the parable of the sower, who created the ground?
""To be Absent in body is to be present with the Lord" where it doesnt imply anything more than Paul having a desire to be with the Lord,but as for all, they have to sleep in First Death (of the Body) and be resurrected at his coming."
This passage of Holy Scripture is nothing to do with the Resurrection. As Born Again sons of God we are now new creations or new people living in dying bodies of sin, which still, at times, have a hold over us. In this condition our focus frequently drifts from being on The Lord to being on the lusts of the flesh our bodily desires. We can at times be very worldly, this is being at home with the body but when our focus is on The Lord we are, by default, absent from the body. It's all to do with our focus and desire to be with Him in our thoughts and deeds.
I will be dealing with the Anglo-Saxon thing in a Hub soon and rest assured it will ruffle mainstream Christian feathers.
Go for it, I see you like the ruffle bit
God knew man would fall, If man never was to fall, he would never have said
Ge:2:17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
He left the choice upto man Adam hence forth all the sin.
But God had already planned for this., and leaving it up to mans choice again.
Re:13:8: And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him ( Devil, Satan), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
I agree the Godhead foreknew that Adam would fail but Adam was under a type of Grace in the Garden so he had freewill - he could choose. After Adam fell he lost his freewill. All he could do from henceforth was the Devil's will within the realm of the knowledge of good and evil. This means man can do good (self-righteous do-gooding) or he can do evil, but either way he is still fallen and lost - a slave to sin - no freedom and no opportunity to choose, he's in bondage to sin and the fallen condition.
Adam was Eternal man clothed with light probably the Holy Spirit..Adam and Eve were eating from the tree of Life (Eternal life) also in the midst of the garden.
Gods Grace is his nature , he only issued it after man fell..
Gods intentions are to forgive us of our sin because he is Graceful and loving. Hence why Jesus was mans sin on the cross, and everlasting sacrifice from God for our sin.
Ro:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Ro:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Ro:3:10: As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Ro:5:18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Ro:3:4: God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Ro:3:20: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Grace is what saves us not our works.
Lu:2:40: And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Joh:1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Joh:1:16: And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh:1:17: For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Ac:4:33: And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Ac:11:23: Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
Ac:13:43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Ac:14:3: Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Ac:14:26: And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.
Ac:15:11: But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Ac:15:40: And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.
Ac:18:27: And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Ac:20:24: But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Ac:20:32: And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
Ro:1:5: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Ro:1:7: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ro:3:24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:Ro:4:4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Ro:4:16: Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Ro:5:2: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ro:5:15: But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Ro:5:17: For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Ro:5:20: Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Ro:5:21: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro:6:1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Ro:6:14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Ro:11:5: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Ro:11:6: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ro:12:3: For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Ro:12:6: Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Ro:15:15: Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Ro:16:20: And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
Ro:16:24: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
1Co:1:3: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co:1:4: I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
1Co:3:10: According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co:10:30: For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co:15:10: But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co:16:23: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
2Co:1:2: Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Co:1:12: For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
2Co:4:15: For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
2Co:6:1: We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2Co:8:1: Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2Co:8:6: Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
2Co:8:7: Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
2Co:8:9: For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
2Co:8:19: And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:
2Co:9:8: And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good.
Jesus i
KJV says
Ec:3:20: All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.Ec:3:21: Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Not all words" beast" is Satan, animals are also called beasts, These verses are comparing the spirit of man and beasts (animals) Mans spirit belongs to God, its the same breathed in at creation the breath of God.
Have another read on Death what now I use many verses about this.
GB
Carrie Our Soul, and Spirit are discussed in "Gods" description and "Death What now"
The Holy Spirit is the power of God.
GB
Hoo,
"Adam was Eternal man clothed with light probably the Holy Spirit. Adam and Eve were eating from the tree of Life (Eternal life) also in the midst of the garden."
There must have been Grace in the garden, for life is a free gift. God gave the first man Adam that undeserved free gift of creating him in first place. Adam was created to be eternal and would have been had he eaten of the Tree of Life - partaken of the Holy Spirit. He, and in particular Eve, chose the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil instead. Had they eaten of Tree of Life there would have been no fall, so in reality, they were never going to eat of the Tree of Life because as we know The Lord was the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. The metaphorical flaming swords stopped Adam and Eve from returning to take of the Tree of Life.
"Gods Grace is his nature , he only issued it after man fell."
Yes, true, it is a part of His nature for God is love, but Grace was not made available to man until after The Lord's death and resurrection. Before that man was under The Law and there is no Grace under The Law. Man in the fallen condition is not under grace, he is under death and sin - destruction.
The bottom line here, as always with the Godhead, is their Glory - everything has to be for their Glory. If they are not glorified they will cease to exist. Glory is their life blood, so to speak.
Gods grace was always there,its his nature, as I said it was issued after man fell. Adam was walking in eternal life before the fall so there was no need for God to display his grace towards Adam,and Gods grace is displayed on the fallen. Whether they are in the Old Covenant or New Covenant.God was continually trying to get Israel to trust God so that they could experience his Grace and Mercy without the Law.
God sets free from bondage, with his GRACE and MERCY
Ge:6:8: But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Ge:19:19: Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
Ge:32:5: And I have oxen, and asses, flocks, and menservants, and womenservants: and I have sent to tell my lord, that I may find grace in thy sight.
Ge:33:8: And he said, What meanest thou by all this drove which I met? And he said, These are to find grace in the sight of my lord.
Ge:33:10: And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.
Ge:33:15: And Esau said, Let me now leave with thee some of the folk that are with me. And he said, What needeth it? let me find grace in the sight of my lord.
Ge:34:11: And Shechem said unto her father and unto her brethren, Let me find grace in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give.
Ge:39:4: And Joseph found grace in his sight, and he served him: and he made him overseer over his house, and all that he had he put into his hand.
Ge:47:25: And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh's servants.
Ge:47:29: And the time drew nigh that Israel must die: and he called his son Joseph, and said unto him, If now I have found grace in thy sight, put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh, and deal kindly and truly with me; bury me not, I pray thee, in Egypt:
Ge:50:4: And when the days of his mourning were past, Joseph spake unto the house of Pharaoh, saying, If now I have found grace in your eyes, speak, I pray you, in the ears of Pharaoh, saying,
Ex:33:12: And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.
Ex:33:13: Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.
Ex:33:16: For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth.
Ex:33:17: And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
Ex:34:9: And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
Nu:32:5: Wherefore, said they, if we have found grace in thy sight, let this land be given unto thy servants for a possession, and bring us not over Jordan.
J'g:6:17: And he said unto him, If now I have found grace in thy sight, then shew me a sign that thou talkest with me.
Ru:2:2: And Ruth the Moabitess said unto Naomi, Let me now go to the field, and glean ears of corn after him in whose sight I shall find grace. And she said unto her, Go, my daughter.
Ru:2:10: Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shouldest take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger?
1Sa:1:18: And she said, Let thine handmaid find grace in thy sight. So the woman went her way, and did eat, and her countenance was no more sad.
1Sa:20:3: And David sware moreover, and said, Thy father certainly knoweth that I have found grace in thine eyes; and he saith, Let not Jonathan know this, lest he be grieved: but truly as the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, there is but a step between me and death. 1Sa:27:5: And David said unto Achish, If I have now found grace in thine eyes, let them give me a place in some town in the country, that I may dwell there: for why should thy servant dwell in the royal city with thee?
2Sa:14:22: And Joab fell to the ground on his face, and bowed himself, and thanked the king: and Joab said, To day thy servant knoweth that I have found grace in thy sight, my lord, O king, in that the king hath fulfilled the request of his servant.
2Sa:16:4: Then said the king to Ziba, Behold, thine are all that pertained unto Mephibosheth. And Ziba said, I humbly beseech thee that I may find grace in thy sight, my lord, O king.
Ezr:9:8: And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.
Es:2:17: And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; so that he set the royal crown upon her head, and made her queen instead of Vashti.Psalms:45:2: Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
Psalms:84:11: For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
Proverb:1:9: For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
Proverb:3:22: So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.
Proverb:3:34: Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
Proverb:4:9: She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.
Proverb:22:11: He that loveth pureness of heart, for the grace of his lips the king shall be his friend.
Jer:14:21: Do not abhor us, for thy name's sake, do not disgrace the throne of thy glory: remember, break not thy covenant with us.
Jer:31:2: Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
Zec:4:7: Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
Zec:12:10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Ro:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Ro:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Hi, I've found a lot of interesting things here. You where talking about predestionation, that would mean that we can't choose. Why did Moses said in Deut 30:19
:" I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, thatI have set before you, lie and death, blessing and cursion; therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
And if Adam did not have a possibility to choose, he was not perfect, just a robot. God is Love, but if he didn't give Adam a choice, that is against God's nature!
You also started this blogg with Once SAVED always SAVED. How can that be true? Jesus said in Matt 24:13 :
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Phil 2:12 "Wherefore,my beloved, as yehave always obeyed, not as in my presence only, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"
This was addressed to "the saints", or holy ones, at philippi,as stated in Phil 1:1 . Paul urged them not to be overlyconfident but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.
About Grace and Mercy and Truth: We can never pay anything back to God because he owns everything. All he want is that we believe in him and have faith in his word! Then, how can we show God that we relly believe in him, have faith in him?
Let's read Jas 2:14-26. At the beginning it says:
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"
Jas 2:18 : "yes,a man may say, Thou hastfaith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
And Jas 2:26 ; "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works isdead also."
A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith will have works to go with it- works of obedience to the commans of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and love. Without such works, his faith is dead.
There were more I would like to comment, but I think this will be enought for now.
"Gods grace was always there, its his nature, as I said it was issued after man fell."
OK, I see where you are coming from. Those The Father called in OT times and who found favour in His sight i.e. Noah, The Patriarchs, The Prophets, Israel and King David as His chosen people etc. These though were special dispensations to a very select few, grace was still not made available generally to all mankind, which is the point I am trying to make here.
"Adam was walking in eternal life before the fall."
This is not correct. Adam and Eve had not taken of the Tree of Life, they only had the opportunity of Eternal Life, not an automatic bestowing of Eternal Life. Only the Tree of Life could have given them Eternal Life. As I said, if they had chosen the Tree of Life they would not have fallen. People with eternal life do not fall and they cannot fall because they are then Born of God.
Once we are called and chosen - Born Again under Grace we cannot fail or fall. It would have been the same for Adam and Eve had they eaten of the Tree of Life. In turn, they would not have eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
This was an either/or situation, but God already foreknew which way they would turn, for it was all part of His plan - for His Glory.
"And Gods grace is displayed on the fallen"
Only through Christ, and on those the Father chooses, there was no Grace on the fallen generally before Christ, nor is there any Grace on the lost and unsaved today. The Law reigned supreme and sins could only be covered by animal sacrifices, (this is not grace, it's the Law) which was only a discharge of those sins until a later date when sin would be dealt with once and for all by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
"Whether they are in the Old Covenant or New Covenant. God was continually trying to get Israel to trust God so that they could experience his Grace and Mercy without the Law."
True, but He knew they wouldn't, that's why He gave them The Law. OK, He knew they wouldn't keep His Law in The Spirit either, only legalistically, so there was no Grace until the Lord Jesus Christ and then it was only given to those He would choose and call to His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. You must understand that Grace replaced The Law.
"God sets free from bondage, with his GRACE and MERCY"
Only through the Lord Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant never achieved that.
Hi Yasmina It is important to understand "predestinate".
Yes there is choice all have choice You could have read someones comment not my hub
Ro:8:29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Ro:8:30: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Eph:1:5: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph:1:11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
I dont disagree with anything you said, all you said was right.
GB
Hey Carrie you alright
GB
Back to the garden
Adam and Eve were eating of every tree in the garden, they only knew of the one they should not eat from.
Ge:2:9: And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Ge:2:16: And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Ge:2:17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Ge:3:2: And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Ge:3:3: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
So the eating of the wrong tree caused them to loose their Holy Covering, God also prevented them of eating from it again.
But thank God through Jesus we can once again eat of it. God has restored man back to his former state by Jesus.
Re:2:7: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Re:22:2: In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Re:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Keep it up
GB
I enjoyed your exhaustive exposition of Scriptures. I did not read all these comments so I hope my question has not already been answered. Are you saying a person is incapable of backsliding? I mean, Hitler was once a Christian. How does your idea here differ from the heresy of Gnosticism?
Hi there
Backsliding and the word itself has no meaning as far as Gods salvation is concerned, it is also used once in the whole bible in the OT, and not used for a losing salvation.
God is a forgiver to those who receive him, and cant turn his back on those he saved.
If Hitler was a believer, and was born again then there would be no difference. I wouldn't like to be the judge of him at this time in life.
I dont know the comparison of my idea and Gnosticism, although I would think that Gnosticism would have some similarities to the Foundation of the Church but deny that God came in the Flesh namely Jesus Christ. Although they did exist before the Church, and the Bringing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ must have posed as an opposition. The Satanic doctrine would have tried to combine Christianity with the Gnosticism, and this has happened unsuccessfully, because God upholds his word, and it cannot be destroyed by men or systems.
have a good day if you are in Europe
"Adam and Eve were eating of every tree in the garden, they only knew of the one they should not eat from."
Hoo, this is not correct, The Tree of Life equalled Eternal Life. Once we taste Eternal Life we cannot lose it. Had Adam and Eve made the choice to eat of that tree they would not have fallen.
Gen 3:22-23 (KJV) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Here we can plainly see that up until that point Adam and Eve had not eaten the fruit from the Tree of Life. They were given a test of making the right decision and they failed.
Adam and Eve had not seen death in the Garden,until their eternal covering left them.
Adam and Eve were eternal and had eternal life in the garden. You said " The Tree of Life equalled Eternal Life" I agree so how can one be eternal without eating of the tree.
This is why God, also prevented him from taking back his Eternal life by his own works and effort, it had to come from the plan of Jesus Christ God had predestined as Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world.
Hence why God knew Adam would eat of the tree...."for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"
So death is the answer to our salvation "Christs Death"
So you are saying that God knew Adam would sin, or disobey him.
Nice hub though, you use many scriptures, is there a reason for this.
Yes that is so..
Ec:5:2: Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
I use a lot of scripture because I don't want to create a picture of all this as mine but rather what the word says and in so doing, what God says.
"Adam and Eve had not seen death in the Garden, until their eternal covering left them."
They had no eternal covering in the garden. You must be reading this into the equation and into the scriptures for nowhere does is say they had an eternal covering.
Eternal Life would have been theirs had they eaten from the Tree of Life but they chose the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This is what Genesis 3:23 is saying:
"lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."
I am not trying to score points here, but you did say that you agreed 98% with what I was saying and I am just trying to get agreement on the last 2%
So are saying that Adam was not Eternal and death was present in the garden, because they had not partaken in the Fruit from the Tree of Life.
or are you saying
Adam was Eternal but had not partaken in the fruit from the tree of life YET.
I am saying the reason he was Eternal was because he was partaking in the fruit from the Tree of Life, and this is why there was no death till he partook in the tree of knowledge of good and evil., And became as "one of us" God head" or "Satan & Godhead".
Lucifer was an Eternal being once in the Heavenly realm, and you know the rest.
So again all things are back to why God knew Adam would eat of the tree...."for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"
To "surely die " is the key here, He was Eternal and could lose his Eternal life, which he did, so God prevented him from being able to eat again from the Tree of Life, UNTIL Christ completed Gods plan for the redemption of Man.
So death is the answer to our salvation "Christs Death"
"So are saying that Adam was not Eternal and death was present in the garden, because they had not partaken in the Fruit from the Tree of Life."
I am not saying anything, the Holy Scriptures are saying it. Neither death nor eternal life were present in the garden other than through the two trees. Adam and Eve were like disciples - learners. The Disciples did not have the Holy Spirit within them, but the Holy Spirit did come and reveal things to them and would then leave them. It must have been the same for Adam & Eve. The Disciples were not indwelt with Holy Spirit until the first Pentecost and they became Apostles and were Born Again. The Tree of Life, had Adam & Eve eaten of it would have been the same, in that they would have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit = Eternal Life.
Adam and Eve were unique in that they predated the fall. We cannot compare them with any other living souls/human beings, for no other living souls were the first of God's human creation. We have to view them as very special people in that they were not born into sin as we are.
"I am saying the reason he was Eternal was because he was partaking in the fruit from the Tree of Life."
No he wasn't partaking of the tree of life I showed you Genesis 3:23 did you not read it?
I will quote it again:
Gen 3:22-23 (KJV) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.
Adam had not eaten from the Tree of Life.
If Adam had eaten of the Tree of Life he would have been born of the Spirit and he would not have fallen.
Tit:1:2: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
2Tm:1:9: Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Everything in the bible aligns with Gods sacrifice for man from before he created man
Re:13:8:................ Lamb slain from the foundation of the world..
Lamb slain from the foundation of the world is the reality of the whole scheme of things.
Nowhere in the bible does it say ". Adam and Eve were like disciples - learners.
Genesis 3:23 does not say he did not eat of the tree it says, God stopped him from eating it.
Adam was Eternal no matter which way you look at, God used the words, thou shalt surely" die" So if Adam wasn't Eternal then he was already a dying person. But Adam was Eternal. So he could eat the fruit of the tree of Life.Just like we can once Christ has come.To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
So you are saying God created a dead man, a dead man withou teternal life.in the garden
Unless you align the scriptures that Glorify Jesus you deny Christ.
Eph:3:11: According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord
Ro:6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Joh:5:39: Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh:6:54: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
He was Eternal and could lose his Eternal life, which he did, so God prevented him from being able to eat again from the Tree of Life, UNTIL Christ completed Gods plan for the redemption of Man.
2% doesn't align with Gods plan,
Hoo is a smart fellow? You are.
"Tit:1:2: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began."
Promised but not given until Christ.
I am done with you Hoo, for there is a blindness and delusion you have which only the Lord can remove not me. I will leave you with your fellow deluded mainstream Christian friends.
yes2truth
Thanks nice chatting to you.
Ro:2:1: Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Thanks no body
Carrie I enjoyed reading the things that the Lord has given you. God has bless you with a lot of wisdom, revelation and knowledge of His word. It is a prayerful person that is able to see into the scriptures the way you are able.
Hebrew 6: 4-6 KJV
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Matthew 10:20-22 KJV
20. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21. And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Always Save, as long as you stay connected to the True Vine, to leave is death, spiritual death.
Specifically, the Gnostics believed that since they were saved and baptized, they were now free to do anything they wanted, drunken orgies were their favorite past time, and no matter what they did, it would not affect their salvation. This was condemned as heresy for obvious reasons.
Royal Diadem
Yes you are correct this is a choice one can make that one can be spiritually disconnected from God, this is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, which is extremely difficult to achieve. according to Hebrew 6: 4-6 KJV. One must have achieved a very high position in the operation of God like healing the sick, raising the dead and operating in all gifts of God then turn his back and fall away.
James A Watkins
As I mentioned Satan would have tried to combine Christianity with the Gnosticism, so if they carried on after they were baptised they were also denying God in that he has set them free from the bondage of sin. so then were they saved at all, and did they have fruits of repentance. The salvation of God is just that.
Yes we as believing sinners need to avoid sinning, and continually seek his face, and this gives growth in freedom from bondage.God will never turn his back though. The prodigal son is the typical example of this and to return.
Hey Carrie
Thanks for that. I wouldn't bother about proving God to fools, they are supposed to do it for themselves. Crazy that the world wants believers to prove there is a God.
Believing in God is a definite insurance, Imagine if there isn't God, then we will be in the same condition as non-believers, no judgment, But if there is God then there is judgement and we are saved.
Hoowantstono,
I agree with what Yasmina wrote:
You also started this blogg with Once SAVED always SAVED. How can that be true? Jesus said in Matt 24:13 :
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Phil 2:12 "Wherefore,my beloved, as yehave always obeyed, not as in my presence only, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"
This was addressed to "the saints", or holy ones, at philippi,as stated in Phil 1:1 . Paul urged them not to be overlyconfident but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.
About Grace and Mercy and Truth: We can never pay anything back to God because he owns everything. All he want is that we believe in him and have faith in his word! Then, how can we show God that we relly believe in him, have faith in him?
Let's read Jas 2:14-26. At the beginning it says:
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"
Jas 2:18 : "yes,a man may say, Thou hastfaith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. .
FIRST RESURRECTION: A person who does not belong to Jesus Christ is dead. When he believes, is baptized in the likeness of Jesus' death, he is raised a new person and that is the first resurrection. He died spiritually the first death and is spiritually raised up.
At this stage, he is now sinless but he lives in the world and there are lots of temptation, and he may fall into sin until he physically dies. That is why he should pray for the Holy Spirit to guide and veer him away from sin.
After accepting Jesus Christ, we should keep our bodies spotless, and righteous without sin. This is not to be confused with "work" because when he first believed, he already had "belief" in Christ. Now we want to be like Jesus, we need to keep ourselves pure and spotless. Is this considered "work". Surely No.
A THOUSAND YEARS = 1 DAY [2 Peter 3:8]
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
SECOND DEATH: Physical death on earth [Re 20:6; 2:11; 20:14; 21:8]
SECOND COMING: 1 Thess 4:16-17
The dead in Christ shall rise first: [17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
There are only two comings of the Lord. (1) when He lived on earth (2) His second coming to deliver His judgments upon the whole world. Those who are dead will rise first, and those who are alive (in Him) will meet the Lord in the air while the others (the tares) will go to hell and damnation.
All these things are done in one shot.
All glory to God.
Hi einron
These are your insecurities...." endure unto the end"..."work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"....."not to be overlyconfident"
Seems you are not accepting the truth and that being....You are a new creature, you cannot remove yourself from God, only God can cut you off, and God says this.
Psalms:103:12: As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
De:31:6: Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
Jos:1:5: There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
1Ki:8:57: The LORD our God be with us, as he was with our fathers: let him not leave us, nor forsake us:
1Ch:28:20: And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the LORD God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the LORD.
Ne:9:31: Nevertheless for thy great mercies' sake thou didst not utterly consume them, nor forsake them; for thou art a gracious and merciful God.
Ro:6:1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Ro:6:2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Ro:6:3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Ro:6:4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Ro:6:6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Ro:6:7: For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Note; The word “IN” is used, not the word “TO” this describes a humans present condition before he realises Christ has been crucified for him.
This says that we are dead to sin and sin is not the separating factor in our lives any longer SIN is a CONDITION also a LAW.
ROMANS 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
2Co:5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ga:6:15: For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
The condition of sin is gone we are new creatures, we are born again, we are still sinners, but we are permanently covered with Jesus blood, and this itself says we are continually forgiven, ongoing. as long as your time exists.
MATTHEW 24:13......Jesus is talking to the Israelites, concerning the end times, and has nothing to do with salvation and being born again, he was reminding them of Daniels Prophecy.
Phil 2:12.....Advice was to work out their salvation in verse 13 it explains quite nicely "God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.", so here it is God is moving them from within, The Greek word translated "work" is "katergazomai" meaning work to the fullest or to completion and that it is, God that is moving them to will and do.....They are not being told to figure out their salvation, also Paul was not going to be with them as their leader, so they were afraid hence, why Paul said fear and trembling. He was encouraging them to learn from God moving them, which supports OSAS.
Ph'p:2:12: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Ph'p:2:13: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Paul does not mention "overly confident " at any point but actually does the opposite and encourages them to have confidence
Ph'p:1:6: Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
The Holy Spirit has begun a good work in them, and they must be confident of their new identity. and so must you.
Your Question....."Then, how can we show God that we relly believe in him, have faith in him?"
Jas:2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas:2:17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas:2:18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Well your insecurity in this is ....."can faith save him"......
If you take all the scriptures together you will notice it is talking about giving, having faith cannot clothe someone that has no clothes, go and give him some clothes, thats why it says......"I will shew thee my faith by my works"..... Because you are in Christ God moves you to give to the needy so give, it proves your faith by the action of giving"
FIRST RESURRECTION....Your confusion is this...Born again v Resurrection...
Being baptized into Christs death means dying to self giving your soul to God, even though you were spiritually dead before.When the water covers you, you are being covered by the blood of Jesus , when you come out the water you have been washed "clean" by his blood and now have a red garment covering you, you are a new creature that belongs to God, he will come and live in you calling himself the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Now that you are Born again of the water and blood .
When the body dies and comes from the grave at the coming of Jesus this is the resurrection, of the saints not the coming from the water of baptism. Yes we are baptized into his death and we are raised to a new life on the earth, but we will be resurrected at his coming Second Coming . Jesus was resurrected from the grave, and so will we be, thats why we are baptised into his resurrection also. As he came out the grave so will we.
1Th:4:16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Co:15:12: Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co:15:13: But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co:15:21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co:15:42: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Your next insecurities .... we should keep our bodies spotless, and righteous without sin.
God has said you are without sin because you are in his Son therefore you are righteous covered by Jesus righteousness, and are blameless, yes you dont have to sin if you dont want to, but you will, because you are still in this body....have a look at Romans it describe very nicely the Law of sin.
Ro:7:23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Ro:7:17: Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Ro:7:25: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Ro:8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Remember you are free completely free, never to become unsaved.
SECOND DEATH:......This death is at the end of the world and the earth...
We that are in the First resurrection at the Second Coming, which I have just described above, because we have died and are resurrected will not take part in the "Second Death".
The bible considers the First death the day you die,the day your body dies, not your soul , and the Seond Death is the day all souls that are not in Christ will be cast into the lake of fire.
All whose names are not written in the Lambs
Hey Carrie hows things there, Did you read Isaiah 58 6- 14
I have been following some of the HUBS, and notice the replies to questions and debates that take place, and yours seems to have a depth, because of the vast amount of scriptures you are using.
I followed you to einron. I never heard of the suicide thing that way before.
Grim Reaper
Like the monster truck
Its very handy, using the web, and also being able to get involved biblically like this,
What you are doing is a good idea, you could even use other hubbers ideas and form your own.
You from Houston Texas
Isaiah 58
You will notice how
Isa:58:3: Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
Isa:58:4: Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isa:58:5: Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Compare the two types of fast being highlighted, one man perceives is correct and one God accepts.
Isa:58:6: Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa:58:7: Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa:58:8: Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa:58:9: Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa:58:10: And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isa:58:11: And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa:58:12: And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isa:58:13: If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa:58:14: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Have a blessed day, the Lord will not and cannot resist feeding and caring for his children.
Wow, that's a lot of Scripture that you used for this Hub. Thanks!
1 Corinthians 13
1If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling;
2and if I have prophecy, and know all the secrets, and all the knowledge, and if I have all the faith, so as to remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing;
3and if I give away to feed others all my goods, and if I give up my body that I may be burned, and have not love, I am profited nothing.
4The love is long-suffering, it is kind, the love doth not envy, the love doth not vaunt itself, is not puffed up,
5doth not act unseemly, doth not seek its own things, is not provoked, doth not impute evil,
6rejoiceth not over the unrighteousness, and rejoiceth with the truth;
7all things it beareth, all it believeth, all it hopeth, all it endureth.
8The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;
9for in part we know, and in part we prophecy;
10and when that which is perfect may come, then that which [is] in part shall become useless.
11When I was a babe, as a babe I was speaking, as a babe I was thinking, as a babe I was reasoning, and when I have become a man, I have made useless the things of the babe;
12for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;
13and now there doth remain faith, hope, love -- these three; and the greatest of these [is] love.
Charity is what God loves and he loves us and expects us to take care of eachother and to love them no matter what.
cces
Thanks, its better to say a little from yourself and use the scriptures for the facts, Just like Lady Guinevere
Hey Lady Guinevere
Good show I receive those words of encouragement.
Blees ya
I enjoyed your hub Thanks
Lgali
Thanks
I believe people can fall out of the grace of baptism, by choosing sin over and over without repentence. Good hub, interesting thoughts on the subject.
Take a case like Adam Walsh's murder. Let's say a man was saved, then went out and serially killed 4 year olds and cut their head off. Is he still saved? I think not.
I cede this is a matter of opinion, but this is my opinion and that of my Church. Grace is something you have to keep up through thoughts and actions. It's always there and you can always have it, but you have to reach for it and try not to lapse and repent when you do.
Iðunn
Hi there
Yes I know it seems terrible, and unforgiving, but take a look at Saul, before he became Paul.....He was a serial Christian murderer, until God came and changed him, this is when he was Born again, and the Holy Spirit, caused him to repent.
Repent... is Metanoeo....to change ones mind...which leads to Repentance....Metanoia....having fruits of Repentance.....Unless a person has fruits of repentance he should not be considered born again...a man is judged by his fruits, and the fruits are the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Being baptised is only the first step to being born again, to be baptised with the Holy Spirit, causes the fruits of repentance, which effectively removes us from bondage, and set free from bondage of sin..
So if he continued in his murders then he was not born again. God still loves him though just like Paul before he was born again, even Hitler...
Fruits of the Holy Spirit are the things we as believers must look at in fact God says we are to judge others using this.
God bless
Thanks a lot for great post.
Thanks. hope you were lifted
you are quite right, I was thinking baptism and you are talking about being fileld with the Holy Spirit. people can receive the miracle of faith and be completely changed. indeed, like the parable of the trees, by their fruits you will know them. a bad tree can only produce bad fruit and a good tree likewise.
excellent point.
Iðunn
All are sinners, and no one should go to heaven but because God predestined man to walk in God (Christ) we need to have been born of the Spirit also, not just the water.
M't:20:23: And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Jesus was Baptized in water and then the Holy Spirit in the Jordan river.
Bless you
CARRIE
Great I must have a look and see what I can scrape out, and highlight
CU
Yep
Fruits and Gifts are different again.
Keep it going
Fruit of the Spirit
Ga:5:22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Ga:5:23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gifts of the Hol Spirit
Prophecy, Serving, Teaching, Encouragement, Giving, Leadership, mercy, wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, Discernment,Tongues, Interpretation, helps, and Administration.
Hey reaper
You got the Spirit....of things,
Strange name
Sehr informative und hilfreiche Informationen
Vielen Dank, das Sie wie Rugby in Deutschland??
Hi, Thank You so much for this awesome hub. I am grateful we are in each others fan club. We have much work to do. I loved all the scriptures. In fact I printed your article so I would have scriptures close at hand. Keep up the awesome work. You will touch many lives. I will return very soon. 'Shalom'
skye2day
Thanks, this is the reason for the hub, to build up in the knowledge of the word
God bless
GreatContent
So you think you could seperate yourself from God once you stepped into his New Covenant.Well you are tougher than God.
Ro:8:38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come.
Ro:8:39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Joh:10:28: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Well the Torah and Prophets told you to believe in Jesus.
Jesus is one of those Prophets.
Go well
It seems some people find it hard that God is the same yesterday today and forever. God hates sin, thats why God was sin on the cross, so sin could die, which it did when Jesus died, so if sin is dead how can he hold it against you, if there is nothing to hold.
Yes born again is the only answer for getting out of trouble and into an expected redemption.
Nice hub to the point.
Where does this leave man's accountablity and responsibility? What of the Great Judgment where all will stand before Christ and be judged of their works - this is after the graves and hell had given up the dead?
TimothyRBerman
The answer to your question is. Why did Jesus Christ die on the cross?, is it because you were a sinner? or be judged because you are guilty of sin?, and thereby destroying even the judgement?. The accountability is on his shoulders, and also in your place.
Have a read on my other hubs I cover this in various ways.
Go well
GRIM REAPER
Thanks you have it on the head
Wow this is deeply insprirational and intelligent. excellent hub.
Rebecca E
Hi there, thanks for the comment, I hope you got something from it
Go well
Eternal Security is one of the most comforting doctrines in God's Holy Word. John 10: 26-29. But it seems like the doctrine of Election is the most despised. Mark 4:11-12
Larry Lathrop
Thanks for your comment
Hi there, although Jesus did say "lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."
So to understand the hidden things of God, you have to be born again of the water and the spirit Joh:3:3,5,8
Go well
Hi All
What a sword fight, did not quite finish reading all (will get to it), Just made me sad to see such disagreement about how we get to heaven. Take away the word just for a second and look to the Holy Spirit. How does God feel?
Obviously, disown God and you won't get to Heaven be unfaithful(because we are just human)and God will be faithful.(as long as we stay in the relationship,run the race) And we will thus be covered by the grace of God, through the sacrifice of the Son of God Jesus.
Even my 12 year old daughter will sometimes say keep it simple dad.
Hoowantstono
Great Hub I agree with 99.99% except the part of disowning God.
peace within
Paul
paulhvv
Hi again, It takes time to become confident in Gods plan, believe in things not seen.
God is understanding, and a gentleman, and knows all things of Humans, so he has totally made the provision, and will never change his mind, and right there is stability.
Go well
Hi hoowantstono
Inspirational answer. He is able to keep His own.
Thank you
Paul
paulhvv
Some concentrated verses to prove it
Joh:5:36: But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Joh:6:39: And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh:17:7: Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
Joh:17:9: I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh:17:11: And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh:17:24: Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
All good
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Carrie Bradshaw says:
5 months ago
Oh to be filled with the Word of God! HOO, will you help me clarify the verses regarding "predestination". I do not believe God predestined certain people to become children of God, but rather the predestination is that of Jesus Christ coming to be our Savior and the predestined purpose is that of salvation through Him. It is rather predestined that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all who receive Him. Does your Spirit bear witness with my question/answer? Thanks! I love you, brother!