Origin of Christianity
81
WHEN DID CHRISTIANITY START
A very nice woman, seemingly intelligent and educated, wrote to me recently to dispute some things I had said about the Life of Jesus. She said her husband was a genius and a scientist; and that she had learned from him that Christianity was not "invented" until 300 years after Jesus lived, so no one could possibly know anything about Him.
HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY
The story of Jesus and His followers is an amazing story. How could a person who was obscure during His lifetime became the most famous person of all time? 2 Billion people on Earth today believe Jesus was the Son of Father God, the Creator of the Universe. The central belief of Christians is that Jesus was resurrected from the dead after His crucifixion, around 30 AD.
WHEN DID CHRISTIANITY BEGIN
The first Christians were the Jewish followers of Jesus. It is worth noting that by following Jesus, they were kicked out of the Synagogue—essentially banned from their entire community and shunned by their society. This is not a path anyone would choose without strong convictions about Jesus. By 40 AD, the Believers in Antioch, Syria, were calling themselves Christians because Christ was the Greek word for Messiah.
ACTS OF THE APOSTLES
Jesus had an inner circle of 12 Apostles; one of whom betrayed Him and was later replaced. These Apostles were given a commission to spread the Word about Jesus and His message to all the world. They were joined by many other Believers, especially St. Paul, and the story of Jesus' life, message, and resurrection began to spread throughout the Greco-Roman world. Something about these few men and women, and the stories they told about Jesus, would eventually convince millions and then billions of persons that it was the Truth.
The Acts of the Apostles tells about the beginnings of this mission, ending about 60 AD. Over the next 20 years or so the books that comprise the New Testament were written. Much has been made of this delay by critics but in those times papyrus for writing was very expensive and there were not many books around of any kind, and most people couldn't read. As a result, people were much better at remembering and speaking stories word-for-word than we are today.
All of the 12 Apostles of Jesus were murdered for their beliefs except St. John. I will write a Hub about these Apostles at a later date, because their story is too incredible to be given justice here. I want to move on to the history of Christianity from 60 AD to 300 AD in this Hub.
NERO
The Roman historian Tacitus mentions Christianity as existing in Rome itself in 64 AD, when they were blamed, wrongly, by the insane Emperor Nero for starting the "great fire" of that year. Nero was typical of persecutors of Christians through the ages. He murdered his own mother and his wife and his mistress. Thus began the persecutions and executions of hundreds of thousands of Christians that was to go on for 250 years. When St. Peter said to "respect the King" (1 Peter 2:17) he was referring to Nero. The tortures of Christians included being torn apart by wild dogs and set ablaze as human torches. Nero killed St. Paul and St. Peter. He committed suicide in the end.
ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY
By the year 100, Christianity had in place a form of Sunday worship service; certain people designated as deacons, priests, and bishops; and written Scriptures (sacred writings). Fully in place by this time was the Eucharist (communion) taught by Jesus at the Last Supper; and Penance (contrition and a vow to change our ways) for our sins. The spiritual leaders of this time used the word catholic (from the Greek word meaning universal) to describe Christians, out of their desire to have Unity among believers, as Jesus commanded. This is not the same thing as Catholic, as in Roman Catholic, which was developed much later.
APOSTOLIC FATHERS
The earliest "Church Fathers" were Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp. The big shift by then was that none of them were Jews. However, the Jewish Bible, now called the Old Testament, was included as sacred Scripture by the earliest Church fathers. Clement was the Bishop of Rome until approximately 99 AD and his extant writings quote both the Old and New Testaments of the modern day Bible. Ignatius was the Bishop of Antioch and had studied directly under the Apostle John. He was martyred in 110 AD. A quote from Ignatius: "The prince of this world is eager to tear me to pieces, to weaken my will that is fixed on God. Let none of you who are watching abet him. Do not let your lips be for Jesus Christ and your heart for the world." Polycarp was the Bishop of Smyrna and was martyred in 155 AD at 86 years old. His last words before being murdered by the Romans were: "How can I blaspheme my King and Savior [Jesus]?"
NEW TESTAMENT
The assembling of the New Testament was not a conspiracy as the popular book (and film) the Da Vinci Code would have you believe. The writings that appear in the New Testament today were the same writings used before 100 AD. In the 2nd Century new "books" were being written and declared to be sacred by some people; and new books were supposedly "found" that had been lost (though that was not true). It was in reaction to these first heresies (unorthodox teachings) that a movement ignited for the holiest men who could be found to come together and declare which books were to be used by Christians. The most important heretical movement was that of the Gnostics—people who claimed "special knowledge" apart from Scripture. Gnosticism persists to this day and its adherents are referred to as "New Agers." There was never any question about the four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, and the 13 Epistles (letters) by St. Paul. There was much debate about some others, particularly Hebrews and Revelation. Modern day Christians believe that God Himself settled these questions by revealing to the minds of His leading Believers of the day—through the Holy Spirit—what books He wanted in the final canon of His Words—the New Testament. The idea being, that since God created the universe, he could certainly reveal Himself in Words to and through humankind—and He could certainly make sure the correct Scriptures ended up in the New Testament.
JUSTIN MARTYR
One of the most frequent arguments of modern people, who some believe might be unwittingly serving Satan, is that Believers are just a bunch of blind, uneducated, ignorant idiots. That is patently false. Many of the most brilliant human beings of all time have been Christians. Justin Martyr (100-165) is a good early example. He was a leading intellectual and philosopher of his times. He said that Christians were the philosophers of the Truth; the True worshippers of God founded their belief in the resurrection; that Jesus has revealed the True moral code for humanity; and that demonic forces would always work against these Truths.
IRENAEUS
Irenaeus (130-202) was the Bishop of France (Gaul) in Lyon. He was a student of Polycarp. We should note that all of these Church fathers were intimately connected to men who were intimately connected to Jesus Himself or His Apostles. There is a clear line of succession. Irenaeus taught that God had intentionally made our world a difficult place so that we would be forced to make moral decisions, and so we could mature as moral agents. He taught that Jesus was God incarnate and lived the only sinless life in human history, thereby setting an example for all people to follow. In his own words: "Though it is not an easy thing for a soul under the influence of error to repent, yet, on the other hand, it is not altogether impossible to escape from error when the truth is brought alongside it."
TERTULLIAN
Tertullian (160-220) was from Carthage. He coined the term "Trinity." He also taught the necessity for Christians to live a moral life. Tertullian spoke about abortion all those years ago when he said: "We may not destroy even the fetus in the womb. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth."
CHRISTIAN MARTYRS
By the year 200 Christianity existed throughout the Roman Empire—from Britain to Africa—despite the fact that being a Believer often was a death sentence. 303 was the year the killings of Christians reached its apex. The Emperor Diocletian ordered that all Christian Scripture be burned; all their churches be destroyed; their property confiscated; and any confessing Christians be killed or made into slaves. He had so many Christians arrested that he had to release thousands of real criminals because of prison overcrowding. All Christians had to do to escape these punishments was say that they did not believe Jesus was resurrected. But very few did. Most went to martyrdom peacefully. It must be pointed out that this is in no way related to the current trend of Islamic martyrs who blow up buses full of women and children. These Christians had not killed or harmed anyone. They were willing to die gruesome deaths solely for believing Jesus Christ had risen from the dead. These martyrs in fact were a leading cause of the conversion of millions of people. Those who witnessed these public executions of Christians were moved to the core of their being by the countenance of these martyrs, willing to die rather than renounce Jesus.
ORIGEN
Origen (185-254) was a scholar from Alexandria (Egypt), who said "I desire to be, and to be called, A Christian, in my works as in my thoughts." He taught that history contains deeper spiritual Truths; that Christian Scripture is not merely written by men but is divinely inspired; and that Christianity is a complete theory of the universe. He wrote that this temporal life exists alongside an eternal world of much greater significance. Origen said that some people will only experience this world through their senses; but that it is possible for humankind to pierce this veil and perceive God and His plans for humanity. Freedom of will was an important part of his theology—that God made us free to choose His way or the Highway to Hell. He taught that Jesus was God walking the Earth and that God would inhabit us, too, through His Holy Spirit, if we invited Him to do so. He debated the Atheists of his day. Speaking of Creation he said: "I cannot understand how so many distinguished men have been of the opinion that matter was uncreated; thinking that so great a work as the universe could exist without an architect or an overseer."
WHO DO YOU SAY I AM?
By 300 AD, the basic Doctrines of Christianity were in place that still are believed today. Doctrine simply means what a follower of Jesus Christ believes, teaches, and confesses as the Word of God. Christian Traditions are the living Faith of the dead. These basic doctrines include that Jesus broke the power of demons and ushered in a new age of divine judgment, grace, and mercy; that adult Baptism was a powerful public sign that one was committed to the Faith; that renunciation of one's past sinful life was required to be "born again"; and that we must obey—and teach others—the commands of Jesus. Another central doctrine was and is that Believers will be resurrected from the dead after this life, and live forever with Jesus and His Father in Heaven. In other words, that Jesus offers Salvation and that He is the Savior of humanity, for all of those who perceive Him and follow Him. It is a Promise of forgiveness of our sins (the many times we have missed the mark).
PEOPLE JUST LIKE US
Just think if YOU had an executioner's sword pressed against your neck and all you had to do was say you did not believe in the resurrection of Jesus from the dead to save yourself from death. Let us not countenance those who today discount the convictions of these early Christians, who were, after all, people just like us.
I have continued this story from Constantine to Augustine in my Hub: "History of Christianity." Then I continued the story further with my Hub "Roman Catholic."
I wrote the story before this story, from the death of Jesus to where this Page begins, in my hub "When did Christianity Start"
PrintShare it! — Rate it: up down flag this hub
Comments
James - {{One of the most frequent arguments of modern people who are unwittingly serving Satan, is that Believers are just a bunch of blind, uneducated, ignorant idiots.}}
No. That is not an argument. It is a rant. And your _ill-concealed_ rant is that non-believers are serving Satan. Have you no grith for the idea that there is no Satan? Why do you so disrespect everyone who does not agree with your every whim? (p.s. grith is not a typo)
Fascinating and well-written hub. Your facts agree with what I was always taught and I went to a church school. Your choice of pictures is, as always, superb. Thank you for not shying away from a topic that might stir up controversy, or from using quotes that might upset the bots! I'm looking forward to the hub on the Apostles.
Great hub. Full of good insight on Christ and the beginning of Christianity. A need to know for all in this day and age!
What an exceptionally well written and easily readable historical summary James - thank you so much! A major reason it is so enjoyable is that I trust you have done your research thoroughly - well done. The historian in you shines brightly dear Sir!
Have you ever read the volume of books Will Durant wrote on civilization through the ages? He too was an amazing historian and author - tough to put any of the books down! They read like novels. Your public voice is even further advanced in that you have modernized it to be eloquently succinct. Excellent
Very well written and factual. Thank you.
YOU WROTE: By the year 100, Christianity had in place a form of Sunday worship service.
I am somewhat uneasy by what you wrote about "Sunday" worship service. Remember that Sunday Day worship was not enacted until 321 BC.
Mardi— You are welcome. Thank you for your incisive comments. I am no theologian or historian. But, I did the best I could with my limited brainpower.
Paraglider— Just a minute I have to look up that word . . . OK. Sanctuary? No. I have no doubt whatsoever that Satan exists. I do believe that Christians are not battling against flesh and blood but that they are engaged in spiritual warfare. Therefore, when attacked by such a "rant" (I agree with your choice of word there) we can think this is an evil person; a dumb person; or a person who is parroting thoughts that are not their own but whispered into their minds by dark forces from beyond our physical plane. I think the latter is less unflattering.
I did not mean any disrespect to anybody. Maybe some non-believers are only serving themselves. We all have free will to believe or not believe; and free speech to disagree. I am sorry if that sentence is ill-conceived. I'll take another look at it.
Thanks for commenting and reading.
Tigermadstanley— Thank you for your gracious words. This Hub for fun and interesting for me to put together. It is not to upset anybody. But there is an awful lot of misinformation out there (and in here) that needs counterbalancing. I appreciate you for visiting today.
Sciantel— I surely appreciate you for saying so. Thanks for visiting and leaving word.
SEM Pro— I had heard the name but never read Will Durant. I just now read two web sites about him and he does indeed look to be a fascinating author. An 11 volume history of civilization! WOW! I will have to get some of his books. I appreciate that wonderful tip.
I did do a little research—two entire days worth! :D
You have the gift of encouragement and I am so pleased you exhibited that gift in your remarks. It feels good.
einron— Thank you for your fine comments and you are welcome, too.
My research indicates that the earliest Christians, who were Jews, went to Synagogue on Saturday and gathered together amongst themselves on Sundays to commemorate the Resurrection. Later, when Greeks were converted there was a big hubbub about whether they had to also become Jews, which was settled partly by the fact that all Christians were eventually barred from Synagogue.
In 321 Constantine declared Sunday a day of rest for all Romans. I intend to get into the whole Constantine thing (and the councils) in the future but that is a deep subject and that is why I stopped where I did—right where he comes on the scene.
I am open-minded on this subject as I am certain that the Sabbath day is Saturday. I suppose it would be good to worship every day. That is what I do. :-)
Paraglider— Ok I changed it.
Bravo...good job, you do a much better job than I on your hubs James!!! I cannot write as you do with all of your knowledge of history, I did not pursue this subject, so what little I know of history comes from memories that I have after being taught by others.
I thank you for your willingness to take so much time to lay things out so even an idiot like me can understand them.
If men changed the "day of worship to Sunday by choice"...no worries, I still know the original day. To a Hebrew, the days of the week are not by name. They just do as the Genesis account reads...On the first day, the second, the third, fourth, fifth, sixth and Shabbat. No names, even Shabbat is not a name, it just means REST. I like this. The New Testament uses this too...
"Now after the Shabbat, as it began to dawn on the first day of the week, Miryam from Magdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb."
So James, stay the course, finish the race, apprehend the prize in the HIGH CALLING OF MESHIACH YAH'SHUA !!!
Shalom Ya'acov (James in Hebrew)
P.S. Let us all remember that without those faithful Jews, we would have not one root. Bless them for faithfulness to truth. Many Jews believe to this day and are very deep in understanding a Jewish Messiah, they can tell it from a Jewish King's side or from a Christian side.
James this is excellent work, I am going to tell you why. First, the church does not talk too much about the beginning of the institution call the church. Second, the authors that do write about the beginning of the church, make it so hard to understand what they are talking about, because of language that they are using, I need a dictionary to read it, hard for me to understand. Thank you for breaking the subject down for me.
In addition, I am now going to go and look up the teachings of Irenaeus, and Terullian. Thank you again for the great teaching I give it a 100%. If you have, any suggestions on how I could write better, I would sure would appreciate it.
To this day if a Jewish (Yuden) person believes in Meshiach (Messiah) they are tossed out of the Synagogue and they're family has a funeral for them.
Not so with a Christian, not in America at least, to be disowned, it might be rare. Maybe when a Catholic becomes a believer? I know Muslims do the same, might even kill you, even in the USA?
My point is that Christians in the USA really suffer no backlash for conversion. "ANYONE CAN DO IT"...like buying milk. Everything is just so "seeker friendly"...blah!!!
I like the term "believer" instead of Christian...that way no matter "what you are"...you can be identified very simply.
Pretty soon we shall know bitter persecution.
Shalom
quietnessandtrust— Thank you very much. I know you are a very learned man when it comes to religion (or drumming!) so your compliments are especially sweet.
No question we owe an awesome debt of gratitude to the original Jewish Christian Community that sacrificed greatly—including their very lives in many cases.
Another beautiful hub, James. And how appropriate to read after church on a Sunday. I agree that there is such a thing as Satan. Vehemently.
Well done, keep up the good work.
Royal Diadem— Thank you. I am humbled by the kindness expressed through your words. I have read several of your Hubs and I think your writing is fine. You always hit me with the Truth and that is refreshing. I haven't read any Hubs in a week but I am collecting them and intend to read hundreds of them this coming week.
One thing noticeable about these early teachers is that there are some things they were mistaken about, that others in the future had to correct. But they certainly hit on some big nuggets of Truth that have provided a foundation for others throughout the ages. There hasn't been a preacher or teacher without some errors made—except The Lord.
quietnessandtrust— I didn't know about the Jewish family funeral. That's humorous to me—but I'm sure it's not to those involved.
Yes, if you leave the Muslim Faith that is punishable by death.
I may have read you wrong but your words appeared to indicate that Catholics were not Believers—and that is not correct (I doubt you meant it that way but I am clarifying for the other readers of this thread). I have quite a few Catholic Friends; and I read Catholic writers such as John Richard Neuhaus, John Henry Newman, even Pope Benedict—and they are unquestionably Believers in Jesus Christ. Now, I have some issues with liturgy, ritual and Mariology that I don't personally agree with. But I don't have to. If they like this form of worship, so be it. They might not care too much for my form of worship, either. And that's OK, too. There are many widely differing parts in the Body of Christ. And they are all needed—except the appendix and the tonsils. :-)
advisoreqb— This was definitely planned for the Sunday Edition. :-)
Thank you for your kind comments.
Tom T— Thank you very much for reading and commenting.
I also love "old dogs, and children, and watermelon wine." :D
Hi James. I like hubs about religion and if it is about the religion of my parents and ancestors of course I like them more so.
I am not sure though about the accuracy of every word you are saying.
1)You say:
"The first Christians were the Jewish followers of Jesus. It is worth noting that by following Jesus, they were kicked out of the Synagogue—essentially banned from their entire community and shunned by their society. This is not a path anyone would choose without strong convictions about Jesus."
The persecution you talk about sounds like a universal persecution against Jesus followers, when in fact there were some problems quite localised. The first Christians were just normal members of the Synagogue because they were Jewish, and they were not generally persecuted by the Jewish establishment because they were part of it.
What happened to Peter and Paul shows how much the first followers of Jesus were non persecuted Jewish. Had they been persecuted in the way you describe, they would've cut themselves from the Jewish world from the beginning, and this didn't happen.
Peter and Paul were in a bitter dispute for a long time about the obligations they were going to impose on Jesus' followers. The center of the dispute was about this: were they going to keep circumcision or not? since Jesus had said that one should not change an iota of the Law (the Moses Law)...
Judaism is an old religion and it had different sects much before Jesus was born. For Jesus followers it was a given thing that they were Jewish, and if some of them had problems with some of the Jewish clergy, this was mainly a problem in and around Jerusalem, not a problem that they all had, let alone in the whole of a society shunning them. The Apostles, when they started their mission, traveled from one Jewish community to the next, not from one Christian community to the next.
Anyway, Peter wanted to have all men circumcised as usual, but Paul, seeing that converts from among the non-Jewish were having problems with the matter, defended their position and suggested that they should skip the mark of the alliance with God -the non-Jewish, that is, not the rest of Jesus followers, that were Jewish.
Finally Paul triumphed, circumcision was not imposed in the new converts, and in the end of course the two Apostles had to get reconciled, no? There is a famous byzantine icon where Peter and Paul are hugging each other to represent that they had finally forgiven each other.
By the way, this is why Paul is known as "The Apostle of the Gentiles". From then on, of course as the followers of Jesus started coming more and more from the non-Jewish world, the whole of the community ended up abandoning more and more the awareness of their Jewishness. It is worth noting that Jesus never stopped being a Jewish.
To go back to your point, synagogues were all around the Roman Empire, but the problems you mention were not universal, they were only localised at a given moment, and the first Christians were Jewish that used to meet in synagogues which proves that they were not shunned by society.
2)You say: "Something about these few men and women, and the stories they told about Jesus, would eventually convince millions and then billions of persons that it was the Truth."
I think you got a little bit carried away in this one, James. You forget to mention that even though Christians became a nicely prospering sect, the followers of Jesus were just one among the very many religious groups of the Roman Empire. You forget to mention that Christianity jumped up to the millions in the numbers when it became the religion of the Roman Empire with Constantine.
Ironic twist: the emperor called by the Church "Isapostolos", the equal to the Apostles, was never baptised. Christianity owes its enormous spread as a State-religion to Helen, mother of Constantine, discoverer of the true Cross. To please his mother did Constantine establish the Jesus faith as the faith of the Empire. I don't know how accurate is the legend that he saw a Cross in the sky before a famous battle that he won, and heard a voice telling him: "by this sign you shall win". Even if this was true, well, he was not very consistent, since he didn't follow through and never became a Christian himself.
No matter what, here we have the basis for the enormous expansion of Christianity. It really helps when you are the official religion of an empire like the Roman Empire.
2)You say: "Modern day Christians believe that God Himself settled these questions by revealing to the minds of His leading Believers of the day—through the Holy Spirit—what books He wanted in the final canon of His Words—the New Testament."
James, many a dictation of the Church about beliefs and scriptures was imposed by the Christian Emperors.
_______________________
The life and deeds of Jesus, as told by his followers, are in many ways a great inspiration for the whole of mankind, not only for Christians.
Unfortunately, I observe among both old and modern Christians of different Churches an attitude that I sincerely doubt Jesus would ever have approved -a type of hatred against not only non-Christians, but also against other Christians.
Sometimes the hatred is openly bloody (see Inquisition, European wars of religion, the poor Salem women and so much more). Sometimes the hatred is somehow restricted by the law, like in this country today, but still, it is an open hatred propagated through radio, television, even HubPages. At other times I can see a tension, a repulsion, that hides itself barely and just for the sake of not being criticized by society.
Last but not least, James, this talk of absolute Truth goes against reality. Let me quote you again:
"One thing noticeable about these early teachers is that there are some things they were mistaken about, that others in the future had to correct. But they certainly hit on some big nuggets of Truth that have provided a foundation for others throughout the ages. There hasn't been a preacher or teacher without some errors made—except The Lord."
Except the Lord? But who is to say what the Lord says if not those preachers or teachers that are not without errors?
__________________________
James, it seems to me that you really make a great effort towards tolerance, although sometimes I have the feeling that you might feel close to the intolerant. I thank you for talking about these matters. We need to talk about them in a spirit of love and acceptance of others; to do this is a not so mistaken way to honor Jesus and all those heroic saints of old.
No James:
What I meant on the comment about Catholics, I meant that some staunch Catholics believe that if you leave "THE MOTHER CHURCH"...you have left the "TRUE FAITH"...like if you were to go join a Pentecostal or Baptist or Protestant congregation. Or say if you converted to Judaism or, or, or???
A lot of Catholics "come out" when they see things a bit deeper.
That's what I meant. :-) Clarified???
This person "rosariomontenegro"
Should have just wrote a hub...ROFLOL and pointed a link to it:-)
Shalom...
P.S. Jews count you as dead and have a "service"...Muslims kill you and have a real one.
Why?
This is the place to talk to James about his hub.
Sorry that it's so long and I know probably only James is going to read it.
Shalom :-)
fascinating hub. names i will have to look up. it has been personal experience that more times than not people argue their belief or lack thereof on reactions to their life experiences. i've had several aggressive people demand that i justify my belief. ultimately it will all be proven out in then end, each in our own time. but i fall back on Pascal's Wager when faced with volatile hostilities from dominate personalities who clearly do not wish to hear what i have to say. no one has yet been able to refute the balance in the wager.
thank you for a very well researched hub in a clear confident voice. as i said, i'll have to go look up some of those names for more reading on my own.
No, I read it all too, no joke!!!
If you look at what i said it was a tongue in cheek thing and no offense was meant. I have been told I do the same thing and so i go off and write a hub and leave the comments too.
Shalom
does your user name mean "Rosary of black mountain?"
"The prince of this world is eager to tear me to pieces, to weaken my will that is fixed on God. Let none of you who are watching abet him. Do not let your lips be for Jesus Christ and your heart for the world." -Ignatius. Smart man, that Ignatius! James, how wonderful to have you back in the writers seat. You have such a wonderful talent for words! Your research on historical data is precise and always appears to be correct! You go on to explain everything in a format that all can understand, which is a humble quality. I know you are educated enough not too! I can not wait to read what you are going to write about the Apostles. I loved this hub! God Bless You!
rosariomontenegro— Well. Thank you for such a fine and insightful commentary. It would take an enormous amount of research to comment at length on your views. I am working on another Hub right now, but I will give a short response as you obviously are sincere and very learned.
The first Apostle to be martyred was St. Stephen, he with a "face like an angel." He was arrested in Jerusalem and brought before the highest Jewish authority, the Sanhedrin. I will add that his defense is a wonderful read. Without deliberation or a verdict the Sanhedrin rushed him out and stoned him to death on the spot—in violation of Jewish Law. Combined with demanding the crucifixion of Jesus—innocent of any crime for which it was legal to be crucified—instead of Barrabas—a murderer—I think it is fair to say Jewish Christians were not looked upon with favor. The leader of Jerusalem Christians, James the Just (step-brother of Jesus) was killed by the Sanhedrin as well. Surely, the Christians went into hiding after Jesus crucifixion. And Jews did not treat St. Paul well on numerous occasions that are known enough I don't need to recount them here. After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, predicted by Jesus, there wasn't much in the way of synagogues to be thrown out of there. Followers of Jesus were hated by many Jews.
Disputes between Peter and Paul did center around circumcision but that was not all. There were other issues that are right there in the Bible. You are absolutely right that Jesus never stopped being a Jew. We are all sons and daughters of Abraham; and Judaism is the spiritual parent of Christianity.
When I said millions and then billions I meant throughout the last 2 millennia. I know there were not a billion people on the Earth in 300 AD.
I am well acquainted with the story of Helena and Constantine. It is a long and complicated story that I will save for a future Hub, as this one took 2000 words to get to 303—using as much brevity as I could muster. Constantine was baptized by Eusebius. It was common in those days among those fence-sitters (not the devoted) to delay baptism until one thought they might die; so as not to accumulate a plethora of sins after baptism.
Less people died during 1000 years of Inquisitions than at the Battle of the Somme. 19 people were killed in Salem. Religious wars were fought over land and wealth and taxes; religion was the advertised reason.
When I referred to errors by Church Fathers, or Billy Graham for that matter, I am referring to what teachers, preachers and theologians do: They explain the Scriptures. They didn't write them. I am not saying Jesus was in error. I said the opposite. Nobody but Jesus is Jesus.
An excellently written and informative hub. Thank you, James for sharing.
rosariomontenegro— Far more importantly to me, is your comments about the flood of hatred by Christians. I happen to know quite a few and I have never seen one of them exhibit hatred—ever. Give me an example of this hatred in America today exhibited by Christians that you say is so common. I have looked for it since I hear this canard all the time but I can't find it.
quietnessandtrust— Oh yes, I agree. There are many Catholics who believe only they have the actual Church of Christ. But that has died down quite a bit in modern times. Thank you for the clarification, Brother. It is always a pleasure to hear from you.
womanNshadows— I always wish to hear what you have to say. Pascal's Wager is an interesting philosophical idea and at its core is surely wisdom. That is why it is so well known.
I appreciate your kind remarks and I thank you for reading!
quietnessandtrust— I believe you are right about your interpretation of the name. Does that have something to do with Ireland? or someplace in Eastern Europe? I have heard of that before. Maybe it is in Montenegro—the country.
Kebennett1— Welcome back my friend! I must deflect your praise up on high and give glory to God the Father for telling me what to write about and guiding me as to the words to choose. That said, it made me feel good to read your gracious comments. Thanks! :D
msorensson— Thank you so much for your comments. It was my pleasure to share this information. :-)
I have no clue, I just know enough Spanish to be dangerous!!!
Very well done. I have learned a lot that I didn't know before.
James what can I say besides well done . It was a great history lesson for me . We may not have the sword pressed against our necks these days . But we sure do have the scorn .
Thanks for all this information, James. I also wish to know what einron mentioned about the Sabbath Day change.
I can't know what I would actually do in the case of martyrdom (as Peter said he'd die with Christ, then denied Him three times that same night). But, I think I would just look to the joy of being with my Lord within moments.
Joy must have overtaken the martyrs, and would have been a powerful witness by itself! Great hub!
Wow, very well done, i can't agree more or enjoy this hub any better
SirDent— I appreciate your comments. Thank you for the accolades.
tony0724— Amen, Brother. There is plenty more where this came from. And I don't mean from me as a person. :-)
Judah's Daughter— What a name you have assigned yourself! :D
Thank you very much for reading and leaving word that you did. I do not know many people today who would die for their beliefs. That is a tough question that should make us ponder why these people, many of them very educated, would do so.
internpete— Welcome to the Hub Pages Community! Thank you for the affirmation.
quietnessandtrust, 'of the black mountain'.
James, the clergy of Jerusalem didn't have only Jesus in their criminal files. But Jewish Christians were just Jewish and to have problems with the clergy didn't have the consequence of being shunned by their society. The contrary was probably true, because the clergy were the servants of the Roman authorities, and many didn't agree with this.
Besides, problems were mostly localised in Jerusalem, whereas synagogues were established all around the Roman Empire, and they continued to be long after the destruction of the holy city.
About Constantine, the important thing is that he declared Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire which no doubt was a capital contribution to the large numbers of Christians from then on.
About the hatred, contempt or animosity ... I accept that you cannot feel it.
Finally, the main point about the authority of the Scriptures is that Jesus never wrote them. All of the scriptures were written (and by the mere fact of writing them they were interpreting them) by those people that according to you were able to be in error.
Listen, I am a religious person and a defender of religion. But it is obvious what it does to the human spirit to try to establish "the absolute Truth" and what wars and tortures and abuse this attempt has brought. For the sake of discussion I will admit to an absolute Truth either out there or in the depths of all our hearts, whichever you choose. But the expression of that absolute does not have the means to retain the quality of absolute. Any expression is by nature relative.
Good night James. Thank you for the hub and your answers.
Though I don't believe we will be here when the mark of the beast is forced upon people, those who must die a martyr's death will be reminded of the passage found in Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." For, anyone who receives the mark of the beast will be destroyed. Their faith must be strong enough to endure even death. Amen.
rosariomontenegro— NO. Constantine never did any such thing. That is not true. What he did do was declare religious freedom for ALL religions. He deleted laws that made Christianity illegal. Not by any means the same thing.
I assert that I cannot "feel" it because it is not there.
But, I appreciate your valuable contributions to this discussion. I can feel that you have a good heart. :-)
Judah's Daughter— Thank you for your wise words. If secularism has its way, the Mark of the Beast will not be as far off as we might imagine. We know it is coming.
You are absolutely right, Constantine never officially "declared" ... but he lavishly sponsored Christianity which made it in the facts the religion of the Empire. It is a fact of history that religions grow when governments adopt them.
P.s. - I should also have said that the hub is a good Christian history. It is. Sorry for that omission. It was unintentionally rude of me :)
Great hub - I learned a little more. I do have a problem with Irenaeus saying that God made the world a difficult place, since it was not God's will for us to suffer, and it was the choice humanity made with a little help from Satan. Any thoughts?
I really appreciated seeing the quotes and philosophical beliefs of those that studied under Jesus's disciples. It's a blessing to see the continuity there.
I also "like" the section on the martyrs, when you broach this subject, you bring the reality of our faith home, and I wonder 2 things: 1) what kind of persecution are we going to soon see, seeing that this world is moving towards a universal religion and immoral value system and 2) since we are seeing very little persecution in the US, are we not doing our duty and should we be more proactive and vocal AND more loving?
Thanks for the lesson and the contemplation my friend, God bless you.
rosariomontenegro— He did some sponsoring, true. The first generations of our country did, too. Constantine viewed his sponsoring as reparations for 250 years of murder, rape and property confiscation. Romans had been burning Bibles by the thousands so he ordered thousands of them printing to be just. Romans had burned down the Christian churches, so he ordered them rebuilt. Sort of like affirmative action. :-)
I will have a lot more to say in my Constantine Hub. This is a hot topic, so I will get on it soon. I have a least a dozen history books of the period sitting here on the floor next to me for reference.
Thanks for your learned remarks. I enjoy our conversations. Feel free to comment any time.
Paraglider— You did not strike me as rude at all. I appreciate you pointing out early on that that sentence was unduly pejorative. Thanks for the compliment!
Alexander Mark— Irenaeus . . . I think he meant after the Fall, of course. But you make a good point. I'm not sure about that.
I have lots of quotes by the early Fathers but for lack of space only presented a few.
That painting of the martyrs in the Colosseum is very moving to me. Christians are persecuted today in large swaths of the world. "Touchstone" magazine—highly recommended—has a section on it in each issue. It is coming to Europe now and I don't doubt it will reach here, too, unless we have another Great Awakening. Oddly enough, the Church thrives under persecution in most cases.
Thank you for your fine commentary. I always enjoy reading your thoughts.
Bravo James, an excellent and inspiring work.
douglas— Thank you, sir. I appreciate your support. You are a fine man. Keep up those marathons!
"To this day if a Jewish (Yuden) person believes in Meshiach (Messiah) they are tossed out of the Synagogue and they're family has a funeral for them."
SOME Jewish families might - not have a funeral, but say Sheeva (no idea how it's written in English) but it's not a standard thing, I promise! There are whole sects of Jews who think the Messiah has come - as well as "Jews for Jesus" there are all the Rabbi Lubanivitch lot, who think he's the Messiah, for example.
Great hub, James. Very interesting indeed.
It's funny, that picture didn't upload the first time I looked at the hub. The picture I originally meant was the picture of Jesus walking out of the tomb. However, that picture of the Colosseum was moving and is no doubt prophetic. These are the things we have to prepare ourselves for.
An interesting read James. I border on agnostic these days. Still you never know. It must be great to have faith.
London Girl— Thank you very much for your insights and compliment. I do very much appreciate it. I know you are plenty sharp! :-)
Alexander Mark— I cannot imagine modern Americans having the courage of the folks in that painting. I also love the opening sketch I found at the top of the page. I have no idea who drew it. But it struck me as an awesome representation of the Lord.
Ethel,
I do recall this agnosticism, yes. As you say: you never know. I do appreciate you taking the time to read my work. Thanks for the comments!
Absolutely awesome presentation. You will be missed.
Again James a great hub, thank you so much. Keep it up brother in Christ
Wellcome back my friend.This is a very hot hub.All you writting are true from history,but please because you have the knowledge ,the talent,and madness(good part of madness)you must search and write about the other side of the coin.I am talking about some people from history like HERODES and NERO,which i believe they were not what we think.
Smireles— I appreciate your laudations. Thanks for coming by and reading my work.
spiderpam— You are very welcome and thank you so much for your encouragement.
gusripper— Thanks for reading and your commentary. I did do a Hub about Rome that covered history. Maybe I should do a Hub about ancient Athens?
In case you need me i am from and i live in SPARTA the worst enemy of ATHENS.SPARTAN POWER (750-100 BC)
James,
I'm knee deep in the history of Eugenics right now and I didn't know that Malthus was an Anglican Clergyman.It's interesting to learn that Tertullian was against negative Eugenics way back then.Thanks for the insight!
Wow! Obviously spent a good amount of your time on this. Well written and factual. Appreciate the effort you put into it. Thanks Jim and glad to see you're still active here :-)
James, I don't know if I understood something you said ... that Christians are starting to reach martyrdom in Europe nowadays? Could you please explain? I'm alarmed.
You are talking here about one of my favorite subjects for many years. I'm a little bit rusty now but imagine that I started learning history of the Church when I was 12! Those nuns were geniuses I have to say, I will be forever grateful for everything they taught me.
There are things we need to discuss, my observations to your extraordinary work were a clumsy way to start a train of thought. I will go "da capo" another time. Thank you for your consideration.
gusripper— OK. I am not partial to Athens. Do you want me to write about Sparta?
TheMindlessBrute— I have been patiently awaiting your next essay. Thanks for taking time out to visit my Hub, Brother.
write on target— You are welcome and thank you for recognizing the work required to write something of this nature that can defend its accuracy against the "fiery darts" that are sure to come. :-)
rosariomontenegro— Excuse me if I said "martyrdom." I thought I said persecution—and that is happening in Europe today.
I am ready and willing to discuss anything you want. I have a feeling that my "Constantine & Christianity" Hub I will get to as soon as I have time may produce quite a bit more discussion from you and others.
I took no offense at anything you said and I welcome your comments at all times on all subjects. :-)
Thank you. Now you got me hooked with your Constantine mystery.
I will work on it and produce it soon—ahead of schedule. :D
Hi James, wow I enjoyed learning many new (to me) historical facts here and also really looking forward to the one you intend to write on the apostles too. I never knew they were all murdered,except for John? . In fact Im such a bad student I usually skip over anything that looks like history. That now confessed , I do know the fatherheart of God however!! and recently when someone asked me if I would please refrain from talking about 'anything to do with God' I relised ,that would be like asking me to breathe another way ,lol.
James can I add this hub as a link to my recent one pasted here http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-Did-America-Replace-Th
To your best life-Ekiwi
Eaglekiwi— By all means, add that link. I have that Hub of yours bookmarked.
I very much appreciate your fine comments. It was my pleasure to put this together. Thank you for taking the time to read it.
Hello James,
Thanks for explaining the origins of the satanic Cainite-Judeo-Christian Religion with all its philosophising mongrel dogs that came out of Alexandria and not the origins of Christianity that were planted in the British Isles by Peter, Andrew and James in 37 AD.
By the way, whose picture is that at the top of your Hub? He looks like a long haired effeminate wimp, or a hippy, not at all what the Lord Jesus Christ would have looked like.
yes2truth— Hello. You are welcome. The British Isles, eh? By the Masons I suppose. Or the Illuminati.
We know people by their fruit. The men I named here, by all extant accounts, followed Jesus in Word and deed—and death.
I don't know who is in that photo. I thought it looked great. Not that we—that includes you—know what Jesus looked like. I liked the thorns and the cross soul patch was a nice touch. Who did you have in mind, William Wallace?
The Lord gave instructions to his Learners to go the House of Israel not the House of Judah - the Jews.
The House of Israel is the Northern Kingdom or the Ten Tribes who were Israelites, but were not Jews.
Matt 10:5-6 (KJV) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
The Lord said do not go the gentiles and do not go the Samaritans.
The erroneously called lost ten tribes were scattered throughout the lands of the Medes and Parthians in the east; Northern Galatia (northern Turkey) to the north west of Israel and as far west as Ireland in the British Isles.
This is where Peter, Andrew and James the Lord's half-brother went.
Only Matthew and Paul went to the Jews, with Paul also going to the gentiles. Thomas went to India.
Your so called 'church fathers' are a bunch of counterfeiters and all of them to a man, blaspheming philosophers.
Col 2:8 (KJV) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
The Lord would never have worn his hair long for Paul had this to say about girly men with their long hair:
1 Cor 11:14 (KJV) Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
Would Paul have been speaking against The Lord here? No way. Long haired wimp images of The Lord with his pathetic little goatee beard are pure papist RC insults and lies. And all devised to make him look simpering and weak.
Phewww, what a lot of comments to get to this place. James, you've really got them riled up this time. It seemed to me like you were merely offering the story of the origins of Christianity. Lots of people, including theologians have various takes on the history of Jesus and His followers. Some claim there were lost gospels (like the Gospel of Thomas). Others get their opinions and beliefs from suspense movies.
Whatever. Great hub, James. And I love the picture of Jesus.
Hello James - I was searching through "favorite topics" when your hub popped up. Of course I let my curiosity get the best of me. I promise I will not throw any "fiery darts". I thought your Hub was interesting. I was a bit surprised by your opening paragraph. I think this hub was extremely informative and, as always, well written. I do believe in Jesus, that was never an issue for me. Truth be told, and I try very hard to always tell it, when I was growing up my best friend idolized the long deceased Marilyn Monroe. I thought this was ridiculous. She was not someone to be idolized. I idolized Jesus. He was the only person I ever wanted to be like. Talk about raising the bar a tad bit high. It was a lofty goal, but I thought if I managed to even come close I would be a decent person. Needless to say, no idols could follow Jesus. He was the only one. I started questioning religion in my early 30's after the birth of my son Justin. I tried to get answers from my local diocese and wrote letters asking questions they refused to answer. In any case...I do not question your facts. I am certain you did your research. I am certain I will come across more of your hubs as I cannot seem to avoid you...
yes2truth— You may be right about the short hair. The oldest paintings of Jesus from the 1st Century show him with long hair. Why do you think that is?
I have heard this lost tribes of Israel story from one of my uncles. That is why I mentioned the Masons and Illuminati—he also talks about them all the time, along with the Club of Rome, Tri-Lateral Commission and one other one. Maybe he thinks the American Indians were a lost tribe of Israel, too. On what facts do you base this idea? I just looked at about ten web sites that say what you do but that's all they—the offer no proof. I have studied the history of Britain from many sources and have never seen it mentioned by any real historian (and I don't mean Catholic Historians).
The fact that Polycarp and Ignatius both knew and studied under the Apostle John; and both said Peter and Paul were working to establish the Church in Rome before being martyred is fairly good evidence. Neither of these men would have had an interest in making Rome the center of the Church. In fact, they may have considered Antioch to be the center of the Church. There were no Roman Catholics until centuries later so what would the gain have been to lie about it?
Also, the oldest peoples in Britain are agreed by historians (not Catholics) to be of Celtic origin—not Middle Eastern. DNA on skeletal remains is pretty good at tracing the origins of skeletons these days. Virtually all Protestants—no friends of Rome—agree Peter preached and was killed in Rome. Lastly, this was universally accepted in the Christian world since Christianity began. I find no record of your ideas extant on earth until the 20th Century, do you?
Dolores Monet— :-) Thanks for your fine, level-headed remarks. I am glad you liked it and I appreciate you for taking the time to read it.
Moonchild60— Curiosity killed the cat! Thank you for the nice compliments. Following the example of Jesus is setting the bar Most High, to be sure. I am pleased to see your expression of Faith. I am so impressed I intend to read some of your Hubs tomorrow! :-)
What happened with your son?
I am surprised a diocese would not answer your letters.
Thank you very much for visiting and commenting. It means a lot to me that you did.
Oh nothing happened with my son. I baptized him and then wondered about the religion I was about to teach him. I had no real answers and no internet as of yet. So I wrote to the archdiocese in my area and asked them some things that disturbed me. I thought if they could answer my questions I would better understand their reasoning. They did respond, but instead of answering my questions they said that it was unfortunate that I had "lost my faith" and hoped I would return to the church in the future. I met someone who introduced me to "Shamanism" and since I am part Mohawk it intrigued me. I studied Shamanism for a while and then other forms of Spirituality. I just moved further and further away from Christianity. One can't help but wonder, what would have happened had they answered my questions?
Moonchild60— Oh, good. That's a relief. I thought there might have been some tragedy involved.
Shaman, huh? Do they use peyote buttons in their rituals?
I am part Cherokee.
If you ever have any questions about things that disturb you, I will be pleased to answer them for you, if I can. :D
Thank you for responding. au revoir
I'm part Cherokee, too (and Apache). Regarding Jesus having long hair, I would think he didn't because Paul even shaved his head to comply with Jewish Law. However, Samson, I understand, had strength in never cutting his hair?
Judah's Daughter— That's right! I didn't think of Samson. It seems to me there must be a reason why He has been represented with long hair since the 1st Century in most cases.
Thanks for making a fine point. I appreciate you checking in.
Mr Watkins,
Like the clever intellectual that you are, all you have done is proved to me these things.
1) You believe in men more than you do in the Holy Scriptures. I don't care how old the wretched paintings are, Paul spoke for The Lord Jesus Jesus Christ over the long hair issue. Paul had the mind of Christ and no one knows what The Lord looked like, so your image is blasphemous and idolatrous.
1 Cor 2:16 (KJV) For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
2) Just because evil elements have discovered some truth and used it in a negative way to their advantage, also proves nothing. Mainstream Christianity has been doing that to the gospels for nearly 2,000 years. Joseph Smith and Herbert W Armstrong also plagiarised and used some of this true history as have SDA's.
3) I have studied the writings of these 'church father' blasphemers, so I know what I am talking about, and just because two of them learnt from John also proves nothing. Many learnt from the Lord himself and still walked away and, no doubt, in order to preach another gospel.
John 6:65-66 (KJV) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
4) "There were no Roman Catholics until centuries later so what would the gain have been to lie about it?"
Here you display your lack of the Spiritual dimension and your sole reliance on your intellect. The spirit of Roman Catholicism or religion is timeless and started with Cain, through to Canaan, Nimrod/Babel and then Babylon and finally Rome. Simon Magus the sorcerer who tried to buy the Holy Spirit from Peter was a founder of Roman Catholicism; the spirit of the love of filthy lucre. His statue sits in the building called St Peter's and is made out to be Peter by papist deceivers. All lies and deceptions - the foundation of Roman Catholicism.
5) Peter dying in Rome has nothing to do with where he travelled preaching the Gospel message to the Ten Tribes of Israel. He actually visited Rome twice. Joseph of Aramethea, Mary's uncle, also came regularly to Britain for tin and Welsh gold. He was a wealthy shipping magnate of his day, hence it was his tomb where The Lord was laid. Only wealthy people owned their own tombs.
The Gaelic languages of the Scottish, Irish and Welsh peoples are known and have been proven to be Hebrew in origin as is the Swiss German language.
5) You have found no records because you don't want to find them and this is because you would rather believe your fellow carnal minded religious intellectuals. There is more than enough evidence out there to prove what I am saying is correct.
Finally, here is a point that makes your historical account a joke. The religious dog Augustine arrived in the Britain at the end of the 6th century bringing with him your satanic religion.
Now if this blaspheming dog Augustine had the true message, what you now have to explain is how it took The Lord nearly six hundred years to sail up the Med, travel across France and arrive in Britain with His supposed message. I am now having a good laugh and make no apologies for doing so.
You might also like to inform Ms Bradshaw that Judah didn't have any daughters, he only had sons.
yes2truth— So, in your "theory" where was God? Meaning, there have been in 2000 years billions of devoted, pious Christian Believers. I know there are false teachers and false religions. Why would the God of the Universe allow a false religion IN HIS NAME of this colossal magnitude form and shape the history. God is powerless to shape history?
I know all about the narrow gate but the way you talk maybe only 200 or 300 who belong to your minuscule cult are real Believers and the rest are blasphemers. So the narrow way to salvation is a handful of people? And you happen to be one of them? Maybe 5% of the people who have lived have been Christians. That sounds narrow enough to me.
As far as accusing me of idolatry and blasphemy, it is a piece of art. I don't kneel down and pray to it. God is a reader of hearts and He never made you the judge over mankind. He knows why that picture is there. He led me to it. It is not serving as a icon. It is called graphics.
Numbers 6:5 seems to imply that long is acceptable to God in some circumstances. What is important is Faith, Hope and Love. Love being the greatest of these. I am not feeling it coming from your heart. Out of the heart proceeds the words the mouth speaks.
You know nothing about my spiritual dimension.
You still offer no evidence of anything you say. You say Gaelic is proven to be of Hebrew origin. Says who? What evidence is there of Peter setting foot in Britain? What evidence of Israelites living in Britain is there. Can you name the source of your argument or do you sit around and dream this up as fantasy? Gnosticism is dangerous. More than enough evidence? Name some.
Augustine was not living in the 6th Century.
Wow...What a learning experiance! Great Blog....I'm looking forward to reading more of your blogs....God Bless!
ellie1142545— Thank you for visiting and leaving this welcomed compliment. I am pleased that you enjoyed it.
The Truth is not a theory Mr Watkins only theologians and Bible intellectuals have theories and then they claim things based upon those sandy theories.
True Christians are not pious. Being pious is all part of being a Christian religious counterfeiter. You might be interested to know that the word 'pious' is not to be found in the New Testament KJV.
Wide is the path to destruction (spiritual ruination) Mr Watkins and many there be that find it, so billions sounds about right to me - how about you, or are you working on explaining that away as well.
"I know there are false teachers and false religions."
Yes and the two biggest false religions are Popery and Eastern Orthodoxy. If we then throw in AngliCainism as well I reckon that must be a billion or so or perhaps more. What do you think?
Yes 300 is a good number, for that's all The Lord needed in order for Gideon to beat the Midianites, out of an original army of 22,000. This works out at approx 1.36%. I will leave you to calculate how many that will be out of the world's current population of 6 Billion +. I make it about 81.7 million. Looks like there will be quite a few weeping and wailing and gnashing their teeth!
Pieces of art? Come now Mr Watkins I think you are trying to wheedle out of the issue here. Any image of God is idolatrous, whether it is pictures, icons, statues, bags of old bones or relics or any other papist crap paraphernalia.
I know it and so do you if you're honest.
"I am not feeling it coming from your heart. Out of the heart proceeds the words the mouth speaks."
That's because you are not likeminded with me nor, indeed, can you be, for your heart is in your religion like those 'church fathers' of yours. You are likeminded with them in their vain philosophical reasoning.
Re The Church in Britain, all the evidence is out there on the web Mr Watkins if you are interested. Cardinal Baronius gives evidence to it, as does Eusebius. It's all there, but I know it will be like casting pearls before swine in your case.
Re Augustine, tut tut Mr Watkins you obviously didn't know that there were two Augustines. You're not as clever as I thought, and in Truth I am not surprised because Mr Hippo being yet another philosophising illegitimate would be the one you would be most interested in. Not forgetting of course how pious he was!! YUK!
yes2truth follows "bibletruths.com", an L. Ray Smith cult. I wouldn't give credit to his condescending remarks toward Biblical Christianity, for he feels the Bible is corrupt and not to be trusted fully. James, your teaching is sound and I am blessed by you, as so many others. God bless you!
Talking of trust, I don't thing I would trust someone who changes their handle to a lie. Judah didn't have any daughters, not that I wish to shatter any illusions or is it the delusions of the very confused mainstream Christian - Ms Bradshaw?
And please stop associating me with L Ray Smith, or is it judging me, for he has more in common with you Ms Bradshaw, than me. He also has a following. I do not and nor do I want one for it is Lord Jesus Christ that has the following, not me.
I am currently writing a Hub revealing what you do have in common with L Ray and you will be quite surprised with the details, for as you probably know the Devil is always there in the details.
Jesus was a Nazarite? which would explain the long hair,mind you from a practical point of veiw ,long hair is thought to be cooler in warmer temps.
(p.s linked to your hub too james,hope you found time to have a quick squizz at mine too) cheers.
I'm relieved to know you don't follow his doctrines, yes2truth (first time you've denied it), but you do believe the Bible is corrupt and that all will be saved, which is a major false doctrine of L. Ray Smith. When we are saved we are children of God. Jesus is God and is called the Lion of Judah. He is our Shepherd and I am His lamb. Amen.
Commandment number 9: Thou shalt NOT bear FALSE witness AGAINST thy neighbor.
YOU Carrie are DOING exactly that, and The Lord Jesus Christ frowns on such things.
Proverbs 6:18-19 (King James Version)
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Proverbs 12:16-18 (King James Version)
16A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame.
17He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
18There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.
Proverbs 14:5-6 (King James Version)
5A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.
6A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.
Proverbs 19:5
5A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
Matthew 26:58-60 (King James Version)
58But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end.
59Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
60But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
Sanctus, did you practice your numerology and demonology today?
In answer to commentator above.
The Lord Jesus Christ came from Nazareth, a place in Samaria. He was a Nazarene, not a weirdo Nazarite.
You really should do your research before commentating and writing Hubs. You might also try reading the Holy Scriptures too.
Ms Bradshaw,
Bible numerics is not numerology. Yet another woman who should do some research, before putting fingers to keyboard.
Pious means "having or showing a dutiful spirit of reverence for God." You are not pious?
So 300 people are true believers in God and you are one of them. That's a pretty select group. You must be very proud.
That's graven image, numbnuts. Do you have a Bible around? Does that sketch look like an engraving to you?
I don't feel Love coming from you because your heart is black, just like your father, the father of lies.
I have no idea why you keep directing papist toward me. I am not Roman Catholic.
I obviously don't know there were two Augustines? tut tut? They may have been 100,000 people of that name but anybody with a lick of sense who uses that name alone with no qualifier is referring to St. Augustine. You just don't want to admit that whopper you told.
Cardinal Baronius nor Eusebius said any such thing. The only evidence you have of that is the phony web site of your own cult—which I hate to say it smaller than that of Jim Jones. For the last time, send me a link where I can read the verifiable words of Baronius or Eusebius that says what you say—not biblefacts.org (which says it is a myth, by the way)—the real book itself where you claim this originates.
Judah's Daughter— Thank you for your gracious words. I don't mind disagreement but this person's hostility is not from a loving place and by that we may presume the identity of the spirits that direct his mind.
no2truth— I have no idea who Ray Smith is. And that tells me quite a bit, right there. Writing your own Hub is a good idea. Put it under obscure mythology.
Eaglekiwi— Thank you for your thoughtful, sensible remarks. I am going to your Hub now! :-)
Judah's Daughter— Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate you for taking the time to read my Hub and join the conversation. :-)
Sanctus Vesania— uhhh . . . is this a comment about my article?
Judah's Daughter— Is Beelzebub in the room?
yes2truth— You should read a book on manners. Is that why you plague us here? To insult everybody?
yes2truth— It sounds as if you have some serious hate issues.
James, I love you, son of Judah!!
No2truth, bring it on, buddy. I refute L. Ray Smith and have refuted you many many times, as well as Sanctus and the handful of you that seek to devour Christian hubs. This isn't the first attack I've come under (as Carrie Bradshaw, for anyone who would like to read up on this cult).
The Lord says "No weapon formed against me shall prosper." Hubs that hatefully attack other hubbers are dismantled. I have no fear of your threats, nor do I attack you personally in any of my hubs. I only address the false doctrine of which you follow.
James, God bless you and we press on in the truth and the Light!! Amen.
Judah's Daughter— Thank you for the encouragement. Why the name change? No more Sex in the City? :-)
I think these folks are a bit off message and trying to ruin it for those who are truly interested. I mean, they have said they don't believe and that's fine. That should be enough. Nice to hear from you again.
Serving the Lord is my witness, and I think Judah's Daughter fits the cause moreso, don't you? lol ~ titles of the hubs had to change when I moved over as HubPages doesn't allow duplicate titles, and it takes awhile for the originals to delete. It's okay ~ plan to write lots more new stuff. I'm working on a thorough study of faith, which will be a series of hubs! Amen ~ keep up the great work!
James, your original Hub was great. Not sure about all the historical facts, but will certainly check out the ones I need to.
The message certainly gets lost with some of the bickering that goes on afterwards. I confess I don't read all of the responses, because of the pointed barbs. One of the reasons I leave writing this type of thing to the experts and just enjoy the read when they are submitted. I don't think I could handle some of these responses as graciously as you have.
Keep up the good work.
Judah's Daughter— The new name is much better. I wish you had had it from the beginning so you could have kept your Hubs, Fans and stats. But, it sounds like you have big future plans. Faith is # 3 so we gotta have it. Thanks for responding.
Duchess OBlunt— Thank you very much. If you find corrections that need to be made, let me know. I don't claim to be an expert. Just a layman who is interested in these subjects.
Thank you for reading and your kind words. I have never deleted anybody's comments but some of these are trying because they won't answer questions (can't); keep repeating themselves; keep coming back; and the comments are near Hub length. But, patience is a virtue! :D
"Pious means "having or showing a dutiful spirit of reverence for God." You are not pious?"
Pious means a dutiful reverence for religion, Mr Watkins, not God.
No, I am not pious, nor do I want to be, The Pharisees were pious!!!! In complete contrast to your piety, I am Born Again and I don't carry out any duties, I am free, and your statement only proves that you are a man of the useless Christian Religion - nothing else.
Yes Mr Watkins I have hate 'issues' - I freely hate the Christian Religion, of which you are obviously a full time member. Hating the Christian Religion gives me no problems at all, but it looks as though you are struggling with defending it. Your sycophantic comments to Ms Bradshaw and others only go to confirm this.
Augustine of Canterbury (CAINterbury) and Augustine of Hippo - Two Augustines Mr Watkins. Augustine of Cainterbury arrived in Britain in and around 600 AD. As I said, it took 600 years to sail up the Med from Alexandria, cross France and arrive in Britain. What a powerless god you believe in.
Joseph of Aremathea, as were the Phoenicians before him, were travelling back and forth between Britain and the Middle East as regular as clockwork.
As for you not being a Roman Catholic that is plainly not true, because if you believe in the trinity and those 'church fathers' of yours, then by default you are a Roman Catholic. You cannot be anything else, for you have the same foundation as them. I'll also add in Tertullian and Jerome for 'good' measure. Being a member of a protestant denomination does not separate anyone from the above 'foundations'.
Finally I will add that your image at the top of your Hub is false and it's blasphemous. Your not liking the fact that it is, is an irrelevance. All you need to do is repent.
Matthew 5:11-12 "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."
No2truth, you are just increasing his rewards; mine, too for that matter :) For this, we thank you :-) May God bless you until you just can't STAND IT! Amen :-)
Ms Bradshaw,
Many in the past have been persecuted for their religion and then died meaningless deaths for it. It sound's like you are one of them. All is vanity!
Many are called but few are chosen, and wide is the path to destruction and many there be that find it.
Looking at the comments on this Hub it looks like you are one of the many.
Never mind, there is still time for repentance and amazingly thereby even a chance for you. Hard to believe, I know, but true nevertheless.
In order to have rewards you have to take leaps of faith, that faith being in The Lord Jesus Christ and not religion. Your faith is in religion so it will earn you nothing.
Looks too Catholic for me, many confuse Christianity with Catholics.
First John the Baptist, Then Jesus Christ, Disciples, Apostles, and Holy Spirit this is the Church.
yes2truth
Who do you say Jesus is? Do you understand that he had a servant heart? and that he encouraged his followers to be humble, loving and kind?
yes2truth— No it doesn't. You can't just sit there and twist the English language anyway you want. I got that right out of the dictionary: 1st definition.
Well I am glad you admit to being the spawn of Satan—which is where your hate comes from. The only struggle I am in is with the evil spirit that is living inside you. Ms. Bradshaw is not rude like you, that's all. You are a mean evil-spirited person and I know and you know the source of your truculence—you can't stand the Truth because you live in utter darkness where you spout mythology to try to upset God's people and sow doubt. If anybody is the son of Cain it is you—you display the heart of a murderer and slanderer in your own words. Joseph of Arimethea never set foot in Britain. That is mythology. I will pray that you will be released from this powerful demon.
Judah's Daughter— Have you and this person been having disputes in other Hubs as well? Does this person just troll around trying to spoil everything for everybody? I have asked it for proof of all this gibberish several times and of course, there isn't any. Probably an Atheist pretending to be a Gnostic.
yes2truth— You are not the judge of humankind. I never said I as a trinitarian or that I was pious. Few are chosen—you and your 2 friends, right. That's quite a God you worship—known only by you. I asked you repeatedly for a speck of proof for all your mythologies and you don't answer.
Grim Reaper— Are you in this cult, too?
Eaglekiwi— I have the distinct feeling that Beelzebub is trolling the Hub Pages. And I am not surprised. Thank you for asking the right questions.
Ah yes, if all else fails, let's fall back on a secular dictionary for Spiritual understanding. If it wasn't so serious I would cry with laughing.
THE WORD PIOUS ISN'T IN THE BIBLE Mr Watkins that is all that you need to know. It also means it is a word of the Christian religion, nothing else, and it also means that what I said is The Truth.
You have the Devil Mr Watkins, the one who invented piety, along with your phony girly Jesus at the top of the page, not me. I am telling you The Truth but you being a stranger to The Truth do not understand a word of it.
I noticed too that the subject of your ignorance of the two Augustines was quickly dropped. Very sly and slippery Mr Watkins just like a snake in the grass.
Oh yes and of course the last ditch resort of all bankrupt authors and commentators - calling people a troll - how pathetic can you get and a sign of defeat I might add?
no2truth— A secular dictionary. A dictionary defines words. It doesn't care if they are secular or sacred. I never said the word "pious" was in the Bible. Who cares? It comes from the word "propitiate." Is that one in the Bible?
You have not spoken one word of Truth. You spout off all this nonsense about the lost tribe of Israel living in Britain, and the Apostle Peter, too. I asked you for proof repeatedly and you don't respond. Because there isn't any. It is a myth. All you do is insult people. You are as far from the Spirit of Jesus as anyone I have encountered.
You are the one who misnamed Augustine and then tried to cover his tracks, not me. You are evil and it shows in all of your comments. Get thee behind me Satan!
James, Yes, "birds" of a feather flock together. They come to eat the seed you sow to your readers. I'm fairly certain Grim Reaper is of the same cult, but only by his "fruits" can I even guess. This cult believes that all will be saved, even Satan and his angels; people are saved after they die physically; they must be dragged by God unto salvation because man has no free will; and that there is no hell, just to name a few things. My main profile of Carrie Bradshaw reveals and refutes what this cult believes and spreads around, consistently in a destructive manner.
Yes2truth seems to be the worst in trolling around to bring attention to himself and cause distraction on Christian hubs. Because of them, I have to moderate all comments on every hub because they got so destructive. People are turned off and don't want to read merely because of the comments (as stated by one of the commenters above). These cult members just can't stay home on their own pages ~ probably because nothing's happening over there? Hmmm.
Authors of dictionaries, like you Mr Watkins, are devoid of Spiritual understanding, so they cannot be relied upon to discern Spiritual matters. Only The Holy Word of God can do that so if the word is not in The Bible it is an irrelevant word in a Spiritual sense. If a dictionary is explaining what 'pious' means it can only be a definition in a religious intellectual sense, it cannot be in a Spiritual sense. Authors of dictionaries, like you, will think that religion is Christianity when it is not. All religion is man made - a fiction and a fabrication as your in depth history above shows.
Where did I misname Augustine? I mentioned an Augustine in context with bringing your satanic religion to Britain, that can only mean one Augustine - Augustine of Cainterbury an Augustine you had never heard of. It was you who jumped to the wrong conclusion by thinking that I was referring to the other illegitimate from Hippo. So don't try playing little demonic games with me Mr Watkins.
British Israel is True Mr Watkins and none of your silly emotional accusations are going to change it, for as I said all the evidence is out there, but it would not matter how much evidence I put in front of you, you would still not believe it, for you do not want to believe it. You are like the Pharisees who asked The Lord for a sign and He wouldn't give them one apart from Jonah and the whale, because he knew that whatever He showed them they still would not have believed.
Go on Mr Watkins delete this one as well.
no2truth, it's funny you refer to the "Holy Word of God" out of one side of your mouth, yet you call it corrupt and not to be trusted out of the other side of your mouth. Someone is corrupt and not to be trusted, and it "ain't" the Word of God.
Rev 13:5 "There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies."
2 Tim 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths."
no2truth, to call yourself a "born again Christian" is blasphemy, for we know them by their fruits. True Christians rebuke you, but it's done out of love because you are influenced like Peter was. However, with you, it seems prayer and fasting would be needed to possibly set you free...unless God's simply turned you over to a rebrobate mind and your fate is sealed.
Judah's Daughter
When you going top stop blabbing, you are so phoney, even your hubs contradict themselves catch a wake up CARRIES DAUGHTER from JUDAH.
James A Watkins
I like your hubs and have no problem with you. I didnt intend an argument like CARRIE/JUDAH whatever.
God bless you.
Well James , God must have decided your shoulders were broader..lol.. or your heart purer cos mine is somewhere between 'extend thy right hand and smite thine enemy to-forgive your enemies, phew. Your analysis Im sure is right , so woooohoooooo GOD IS STILL ON THE THRONE.
My gut tells me yes an athiest, and under multiple accounts....why didnt he just read the end of the bible, save him/her reading all the Christ-filled hubs ,lol.
Judah's Daughter— Well that is a shame. I don't mind at all someone commenting that they don't agree with what I've written. Once that is said, that should be enough. If they espouse some odd view that few have ever heard of they should back it up with solid facts. If they can't do that, they should go away. This is a community and it requires a certain level of manners to have a successful community. Thanks for letting me what these folks are about. Up to no good. :)
no2truth— Well, again you have no idea what you are talking about. The first English dictionary was written by a man with more spiritual understanding in his snot than you have in your brain: Dr. Samuel Johnson. And you should have learned by the third grade that dictionaries are not to discern spiritual matters. They define words in various languages, in this case English.
Wrong again—dictionaries do not define religion as Christianity. They define lots of religions—every one that is known under the sun—except yours of course, because yours in made up out of whole cloth.
Sure. And I heard Thomas Jefferson was in San Diego in 1955. Impossible you say? Well are you so dumb you don't know there has been more than ONE Thomas Jefferson!
No, you are lying. That is the 4th time you have said "All the evidence is out there" about Israel in Britain. Out where? It is "in there." In between your ears and no place else—otherwise you would have told me by now where it is documented that what you say is true. It's not. It is utter nonsense.
And you are wrong again. I WILL believe what you are saying if you can prove it. Where is the documentation to back up your big mouth? Out there? Yea. WAY out there.
Judah's Daughter— I'm not sure I am even in this conversation but I think we were talking about the origin of Christianity. I say it originated with Jesus; then His Apostles; then the Apostolic Fathers who knew the Apostles; and then the Church Fathers who knew them. This other person says Israel secretly moved to Britain with the Apostle Peter and only he and a few of his friends know this and all the other Christians in the world are damned. Now that we have established that: What else is there to say?
Judah's Daughter— If there ever was a reprobate mind, this is one. I know a lot of Christians and they exhibit the fruits of the Spirit that Paul lists. This person is the opposite. And that means he is not speaking the truth and he knows it or he wouldn't be so nasty.
GRIM REAPER— Thank you for bringing some warmth into the room. Maybe you guys can take it outside? :-)
I appreciate you visiting and commenting.
Dr Samuel Johnson eh well I reckon you will next be elevating him above God or have you already done so. Yes, I think you have. Was he more pious than you Mr Watkins?
I will leave with all his snotty intellectualism and your wretched piety Mr Watkins as that seems to please you the most.
Now let me see, how pious do we have to be to be saved? Chuckle chuckle chuckle.
Eaglekiwi— Whew! A friendly voice! Thanks for coming back into this mess. I know it ain't pretty. :-)
God is still on the throne indeed!
My guess is this is an Atheist who by presenting this fable intends to show that God is a fable and any fable is as good as another. At first, I was willing to receive any evidence it might have. I have an open mind to anything that makes sense. None arrived. I even researched it myself and found a few websites that said these were myths.
Well, thanks for revisiting. I always enjoy your comments.
no2truth— How much do we have to reverence God to be saved? That is the best question you have asked. I would say, more than you.
funny how people tend to forget that the story of jesus was originaly taken from mitra,which was taken from horus,the egyptian god,funny how people don't know that christmas day is really nimrods day and the christmas tree is really a symbol of nimrod,funny how people blindly believe in a book that has been translated,and tampered with by every person of power,changed to fit the ideas of the ruling civilization,for centuries.the strongest form of mind control created to shatter the power that the romans had over the world back centuries ago,the kings of that day would claim to be gods are direct descendants from god,and the subjects believed them,christianity was created to destroy that claim,making every man one and the same.its o.k to believe but don't force your views upon the world,christians,and muslims and catholics have been known to do that.look at the state of the world now chaos another holy war or jihad all I'm saying is WAKE THE HELL UP people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
James A Watkins
No I am not from the cult, in fact I dont know which cult is being mentioned, Definetly not from "kevin kaos" cults
Bless ya
kevin kaos, I think you misspelled CHAOS. The only chaos on this hub has come from Satanists. The rest of us are at peace. This should tell you why the world is in such chaos; it's because the god of this world, your father, still has time to cause havoc...but not for much longer.
kevin kaos— People don't forget. What you wrote is false. Jesus has zero to do with Mithra. Jesus walked the Earth, of that there is no doubt. Plenty of eyewitnesses spoke of Him. I am sorry the astounding story of the Life of Jesus and the way He changed the history of the world bothers you so. That happens often when His Light shines into utter darkness.
Romans didn't worship Nimrod. Sunday was the day of the Sun—wait a minute . . . Sun . . . day . . . I get it! You might observe it is not Nimrodday. You, however, might suffer the fate of Nimrod if you don't shape up.
The Bible has been translated!? Do you mean to tell me that Jesus didn't speak Elizabethan English!? Now that is shocking. Who knew that besides you? I sure hope some outfit such as the Wycliffe organization doesn't go and translate it into 392 languages because that would be a sure sign something is going on here.
Tampered with—no. Scholars who studied the texts for 2000 years who had more than your 5th grade reading level and found hardly any variation in the Words at all—and no difference in what it means. That's why I included the quotes I did above. The same Words could easily be spoken today by any Theologian, Teacher or Lay Believer. If what you say is true that would not be true.
If what you say was true, a handful of illiterate fishermen from Galilee planned the whole story of Jesus to overthrow the Roman Empire—then they were incredible brilliant! What a story. You should contact Dan Brown; he might buy that tale from you for his next sacrilege.
Perhaps you could, um, read a couple books on the Fall of the Roman Empire and come back later before you spout off it was killed by Christianity.
You know, a lot of folks before you have spent lifetimes studying the Fall of Rome and you could learn from them. Actually, it was a society drenched with evil goings on; a fat and lazy people who had forgotten their own traditions and institutions that had made them great in the first place; quit working to live off the government; were utterly distracted by entertainment that got more and more violent and sexual as it went on—titillation is that way, it requires more to shock each time around; the people were no longer united but squabbling amongst themselves; they took it all for granted; Rome was the Eternal City; they forgot how to grow food; forgot how to build things; rampant orgies, homosexuality, adultery and fornication reigned; all they thought about was gratifying their appetites. Oh wait a minute—that's modern America!
Then came the Germanic hordes of Visigoths and Ostrogoths and Vandals and left the greatest civilization ever in ruins.
Meanwhile, in Constantinople, where the Christians were, things were great!
James , you just keep right on shining that light!!
Sword of armour comes to mind.
The funny thing with cockroaches, in the dark,no-one notices, but flick that light on and see them scurry, they even fall over themselves trying to escape.
1Cor.4 :10 Be encouraged
GRIM REAPER— That's good to hear. Thank you for clearing that up and taking the time to visit my Hub. You must be very busy with your work these days.
Judah's Daughter— I appreciate you assisting me here. I feel like we're locked in the Alamo. :D
By the way, I like that new Avatar.
Eaglekiwi— LOL! Your funny. A bit of humor was just what I needed. Thank you so much for coming back to encouragement. Spiritual Warfare is serious business and not for the faint hearted.
Wow, comments are turning the hub into another forum threat :)
James, great job on researching and putting all this together.
I am not a Christian (not by birth, never will be by choice), and I am not religious. With an executioner's sword pressed against my neck I would, probably, admit whatever... It doesn't count anyway if it was under life threatening pressure. What really counts- is what is in your heart and within your spirit. I don't play with any religion (man-made tool to keep people in awe and obedience). I am a Believer. The Lord our God is the only God and there are no other Gods except Him. Amen. We should live according his will.
Very good research, great hub, very interesting read. Thank you.
ReuVera— Thank you! I so appreciate your kindly comments. I hope it didn't come off as proselytizing. I was shooting for more of a historical thing; even though it is about a religion—or two. Just to clear up some misconceptions. And as you can see: some took exception! :D
Thanks for visiting and leaving your words. I think you are on a good track.
nothing I said is false the story of death and ressurection can be found in many religions that pre-date christianity.How quick we are to anger,research the matter or are you afraid of what you would find?I have nothing against jesus are people of faith.My point is that RELIGION itself is very dangerous and should be abandoned,I'm not saying give up your faith,I'm saying do not blindly follow men because they happen to be the same faith as you.Hitler was a christian and thought that murdering the jewish people was gods work.Religion supresses the rational mind.Bin laden is out there hiding in a cave sending religous people to die in the name of their god.religion is a tool the greatest form of mind control ever created.Billions have died through out the centuries in the name of god,because some mad-man has claimed to have heard gods voice.even right now we are in a war with religous fanatics thinking that by dieing fighting the great satan they are going to heaven.God gave us all free-will to prevent these things from happening.I am not in the dark,I see the light.and I am not in a cult.and I am not the Devil.I do not believe in the devil.because lucifer does not exist.Man is responsible for his actions,and the day we as a world stand up and accept that responsiblity will be a great day indeed.But for now I guess we will continue to blame our short comings on fairy tales.the devil made me do it.but you have no control over your own actions?WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
"I do not believe in the devil.because lucifer does not exist"
That's not a new concept. I was just wondering who you got it from?
Beloved of God, there are searchers of truth who need to hear some of what James shared. This hub was written in efforts to hold forth Christ. There are times and places to shut the mouths of the gainsayers, and there are times and places to shut our own mouths. So please remember, even if people choose to allow all comments, it takes two to tango.
This hub brings tears to my eyes because I know that most of you are born of God's spirit and genuinely desire to make known truth in Christ, but the adversary is hiding the glory and goodness of God, which is in you, behind all of these excalating and more frequent disputes (many of which are over insignificant matters).
But isn't it wonderful how the cross is always bigger than any bad we can do? And isn't it wonderful how the cross is always bigger than any good we can do?... isn't it?
Obviously the body of believers in Christ (throughout the world) has many injuries and much lack of knowledge, but that is not God's fault. Nor can Christ himself ever be shamed or blamed.
Now as for us, God's children, it is the good news from God about His Son Jesus Christ our Lord (most pointedly the message of the cross) which is the power of God to heal us. And it is also that which unites us in purpose and function. I beg every one of us, please, please, please let's join up at the foot of the cross. I think we can all agree on the majority of the details in the message of the cross. Can't we? Let's keep our eyes on the ball and give that message a chance to perform that which God sent it to perform. It is the only message which has ever turned the world upside down(which was actually rightside up because it was already upside down in the first place).
You really do need to stop distorting what people say. James.
My guess is the woman you are talking about in your introductory paragraph pointed out that all the available evidence is that the gospels were written about three hundred years after the death of Jesus (assuming Jesus is a genuine historical figure, which most scholars believe to be the case.
She might also have pointed out that Christianity as we know it today is a rich accretion of traditions from many different sources.
Greek philosophy was integrated into the Judaic original by famous theologians such as Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas.
Most western philosophy until the twentieth century circled around issues raised by these figures.
There is nothing wrong with development in a religion and nothing wrong with serious study of the origins of a religion.
If Christianity is to have a future it needs to attract the best minds and the best leadership. The best minds simply won't settle for half truths, assertion without evidence or lack of properly critical and testing debate. Your half truths will repel the very people Christianity needs to prosper.
kevin kaos— I'm not angry. I just don't have time for nonsense. Am I afraid of what I'll find in research? I have 3000 books on the wall behind me. I read about those myths when I was teenager. Remember, until recently, Americans were quite literate. Hitler was an Atheist and a lunatic. The last time he claimed to be a Christian was 1922. The worst three murderers in history: Hitler, Mao and Stalin were all Atheists.
BILLIONS have died in the name of God? Horseshit. Come back when you know something about the history of the world and can comment intelligently.
I explained the 180 degree difference between the current Islamic "martyrdom" and the Christian Martyrs discussed in my piece. Apparently you are deconstructing my work without reading it.
Saying religion is dangerous reminds me of flaming liberals who want to ban guns. It's not the gun. It is the evil person holding the gun that is the problem and if he didn't have a gun he'd have a different weapon. Bin Laden represents an ideology that has far more to it than just religion. Religion isn't even the large part.
If you want to know why you say the things you do, please read my Hub called "Dr. Johnson." It is research into your mind.
David— LOL. You posed a mighty fine question there, sir. Thanks.
b4u2c— Thank you for a profound prophetic message. There is no more I can add. You said it all and said it well.
Truth is Important— You are terribly mistaken. What evidence says they were written 300 years later? You need to rename yourself. EVERYBODY knows the books in the New Testament were written from 50-80 AD.
What you wrote in the middle of your message I agree with. But then at the end you say "half-truths" when there aren't any in this article. Your comment is half true—and I mean that as a compliment.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Thank you James for another inspiring hub.God has truly blessed you in your writings.I look foward to reading more.May God continue to bless you in your walk.
Linda's Hub Pages— You are welcome. Thank you for reading my Hub and leaving your most gracious remarks. I appreciate it.
Hi James Its good to still have you hear!! Can I add a Few points if that would be ok???
Isaiah 53 verses 1-12 speaks of Jesus's coming and that it would change the face of the law as it was from that which God had already given to moses! God realized that us humans could not maintain the Law as he had previously given in the Old Testament and that we were unable to achieve such laws in many cases and struggled hard to reach and achieve those goals! And So I find that even in the old testament it speaks about Christ and what Christs and Gods new laws would do!!! "By his Stripes we are healed!" Isaiah 53 v 5 So I think christianity dated back further than the New Testament!!! I think people believed the prophesies and waited with baited breath for their and our Messiah to come!!!!
Galaxy Gazer— Thank you. I welcome your commentary. I agree with every word you said. And I thank you for adding such wisdom to this thread.
Always a pleasure - you write such great hubs and im so glad your still here!!!
Always a pleasure - you write such great hubs and im so glad your still here!!!
Galaxy Gazer— Thank you for your kindness and gracious words of encouragement. :-)
Well written. Did you know some of the greatest scientists were also Christian? Newton was just one of many.
Gloria Cowdery— Thank you! Yes, I was aware of that and I'm glad you pointed it out in your comment. Christianity birthed modern science.
By the will of my Savior Jesus Christ I stumbled into you're Hub. I was not looking for this but it popped up. It was a good historical post. Thank you. I'll follow your hubs as you go forth with your journey into the information.
I find I'm almost sorry for reading all the responses as there was a great amount of hate posted by "yes to truth". He is my enemy yet I love him as all other people. It is his actions that I hate. I respect any ones attempt at understanding the task we all have at hand, the dignity of living life with in the boundaries of the teachings of Christ.
Does the time line really matter? If I were ship wrecked on Gilligan's Island and new not the date, week, day of week or any other time measure would it matter?
As I washed ashore exhausted from treading water for several days and lay exhausted sleeping on the shore waking up confused and hungry and thirsty for a drink of clear water, I suppose I'd go find the water source and something to eat. It would all be there because God didn't bring me to shore to die of thirst or starvation.
Setting beneath a shade tree drinking water from a coconut and breaking off pieces of the nut for food, I begin to think trying to bring in the day of the week and time of day. Not realizing how long I had been sleeping or afloat I realize I have not a clue. I decide today will be the first day of week,month and year. I make it the year 0001 and the 1st of the month called Blessed so now it is "blessed 1st 0001" I spend the next 6 days finding food sources and water, building a shelter to shield me at night from the elements. After succeeding at my goals of further survival on the evening of the 6th day I gather enough food and water for a complete day and place it in my shelter. I enter the shelter and lay down at sunset. I pray to my God and give thanks for being a survivor as it was a miracle, and then went to sleep. As the sun rose I began my reflection on all that I had and prayed enjoying the solitude, I did no work and gathered no food I just reflected. At sundown of the 7th day I readied my self for the next day of work.
Back in the other world it was Thursday in May of 2009, but I didn't know more than the year and month, but given the circumstances it really didn't matter, because for now I got to choose with the free will God gave me how to keep time and dates, also to name my own days. With the little pocket knife I had I began keeping track by marking a stick with the information to track my length of stay and major events.
Does the fact that I am spending my day of rest and worship, in accordance with the rest of the world on the wrong day?
My point being does it really technically matter to God what day I devote solely to him? With my thanks given for every meal and new comfort I discover or make successfully for my self each day? I think not.
This was a good post that brought believers together to discuss our God. It should be reveled as good. It did how ever reveal Satan is working his hand pitting individuals against one another, this subject is like politics and most always brings discord to a group that should be unified in the Name of Jesus Christ! it is a shame.
1Corinthians:13-16 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
So the nit picking of an artistic rendition is ridiculous.
Judge for your selves, if you are going to fight about it, we have no such custom so drop it!
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Does this not give the binding of religious beliefs to the binding and loosing of a group of biblical believers the freedom to bind decisions within the scope of the 10 commandments?
All the arguing that I just read was petty and pretty unbelievable if we are all true followers of the New Testament teachings of the Christ.
James 3
The Tongue Is a Fire
1(A)Let not many of you become teachers, (B)my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
In authoring a hub or presenting what you believe in further comment against the author you are assuming the role of a teacher. So through bickering over things trying to turn one in your direction of thought or causing one to walk away saying, I'm through these so called believers are a testament to me that bothering with the Lord and his teachings are a waste of time.....
You will be judged for what you do and what you have caused. So it is my thought that if you drive a person from commitment from the Lord or teach them to do wrong you better get some asbestos underwear because your a$$ will probably hit the fire.
As for the Hub, Mr. Watkins, thank you for taking the time and study to present it so well. As for the stirrers of discord I will pray for you that you may learn to gird your tongue instead of trying to be disruptive.
50 Calibre— That's a powerful name there.
It may have been wrong of me to engage the enemy in this forum, as it detracted and distracted from the purpose of the article. I know about gentleness and meekness but St. Thomas Aquinas said there is a place for righteous anger as well.
I don't know what else to say about your commentary other than it is brilliant and discerning. I am in your debt for it. And I very much appreciate you taking the time to read my article and post your wise words.
Thank you
I enjoyed reading this excellent and well put together hub on the origin of christianity.
Congratulations!
LisaG— I am pleased you enjoyed reading it. I just checked out your profile and I am interested to read some of your work. Thank you!
"the enemy?" "righteous anger?"We are people simply expressing our thoughts on your blog/hub.since you consider your self engaging enemies,well,looks like I must find another place to debate.good day mr.watkins.
kevin kaos— I wasn't necessarily referring to you. I did not agree with much you said because it was mostly false accusations. But you were not nearly as hostile as some others.
James,
Excellent hub in all respects. I have throughly enjoyed reading it and also your very restrained Christ-like responses to even those that were obviiously not interested in truth. Let me add that Sunday worship in the book of acts was already the practice during the lifetime of the Apostles. Acts 20:7
talks about meeting on the first day of the week. Also, 1 Corinthians 16:2 the first day of the week is mentioned. The reason for this is based upon Jesus resurrection as being on the first day of the week. It is from this that we get the phrase, "the Lord's Day."
I think it interesting to share that whenever the Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament, it was not a Sunday...the Bible never changed the Sabbath Day. Took me some study to find this out, and I've written a hub on my findings. Praise the Lord in all things, for He knows the motive of our hearts that love Him; amen.
Truthisimportant said: If Christianity is to have a future it needs to attract the best minds and the best leadership. The best minds simply won't settle for half truths, assertion without evidence or lack of properly critical and testing debate. Your half truths will repel the very people Christianity needs to prosper.
SirDent says: Jesus said for all to come. He said come to me all that are heavy laden and I will give you rest. There is not a single scripture in the Bible where Jesus said bring me the smartest, the best, the ones who have Master's degrees, the ones who have the best cars, the best jobs, etc. . . Come to me those of you have have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Christianity doesn't need people. People need Christianity.
A great leader must first be a great follower.
drmaxhigh— Thank you. Such appreciation coming from a real pastor is encouraging. And thanks for adding to our understanding on Sunday worship service. I restrained myself as best I could but it wasn't easy. :-)
Welcome to Hub Pages!
Judah's Daughter— What you say is true. The Sabbath is Saturday. We know this because the Jews have worshiped in their synagogues in an unbroken line of Saturdays for thousands of years. Let each one be convinced in his own heart. Might do us good to worship both days to be on the safe side. :D
SirDent— WOW! Well, you spoke the Truth in power right there! What can I add to that? Thank you for your words of wisdom.
Hi James:
Salaam-u-Alaikum(Peace and blessing be on you) brother
Good effort on your side and very well written. I am a Muslim and we beleive that the Only true version of the TRUE Gospels is The Original Holy Bible, which was later infiltrated by non beleivers and corrupted which Muhammad's(PBUH)family practiced. This is all mentioned in the Holy Quraan in 'Jesus:Chapter 19' and many other chapters. Divine intervension was needed to correct mankind and to complete the Religion of Jesus(PBUH)and Moses(PBUH), which Muhammad(PBUH) did, according to which there is Only ONE creater of the universe and the rest CREATED.
Salaamualaikum
Quantum Al— Peace and blessings to you, brother. I appreciate you stopping in with the perspective of the Quraan. I just went and read the passages to which you refer. Very good. I have long been aware of the "correction" theory inside Islam, or that Jesus was a stepping stone to the Final Prophet, Muhammad. I am not necessarily opposed to the idea of Jesus being created, since He is "begotten" after all. Thank you for reading and leaving your kind words.
yes2truth...
Why do you use the Holy Bible as your avatar? I mean, reading through your comments here....I just don't know what to think....
You say you hate the Christian Religion....And yet, you don't know, that there is no Christian Religion....I, myself, am of the Christian Faith, as I perceive all Christians to be....We are (as 1)a member of the Church of Christ....He (Jesus) is the Church and we are (as 1) the body....
Why are you standing in judgement of us? Only God has that right....As for hating us? Well I just want you to know...I don't hate you....Jesus says to forgive....And I do, as many others here do.....
Jesus also says...It's okay to hate the sin, but love the sinners....
(Sorry James, just had to respond to him/her)...
I read that you did two days research to come up with this interesting story but there are many stories to be had when one researches.
I guess that the only research you did was thru the religious archives because there is a historial Jesus and the story would have been completely different if you had of approached the research thru the historical avenue.
Although it has never been totally proven that there was in fact a man called Jesus who lived from either story.
The other story is very attractive too that Jesus was born to a couple called Joseph and Mary who were in fact part of the essene community living at Qumran on the nile. The 30 so called lost years were spent at Qumran (where the dead sea scrolls were written to be found later, some still hidden in the Vatacan as we speak lest they reveal the truth) where he was taught the knowledge of self from the essene community. He later went out to other areas to teach what he had discovered and practice the disciplines that enabled him to bring thru a tremendous pure energy for healing, manifestation etc. His cousin John the Baptist was also educated at Qumran. Jesus went on to live with Mary Magdalen etc etc,. His story was taken by the political powers and turned into a controlling influence over the masses and it became a religion to revere the man and not the methods he taught. Just as good a story Im sure you would agree and historically can be proven through written manuscripts and information from the dead sea scrolls going back much further than any of the New Testament.
Your quote as follows -
The most important heretical movement was that of the Gnostics—people who claimed "special knowledge" apart from Scripture. Gnosticism persists to this day and its adherents are referred to as "New Agers."
Gnostics to your story tellers are heretics Gnostics to others are - my quote and an accepted truth of what is Gnosticism "Gnosticism involved the relational or experiential knowledge of god and of the divine spiritual nature within us" which is what describes people who live a spiritual life through their direct experiences every day much as historical Jesus did who said - everything I can do, you can do and more - or some such words didnt he?
Namaste
ellie1142545— That's OK, kid. I yield to the lady from . . . The Kingdom. I don't know how it ever came to be that we are defensive about the word "religion." All it means is a group of people with similar beliefs. Faith is better, though. Thanks for standing in the gap. :)
Universal Laws— Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. Please allow me to clarify: in casual conversation, I could have recited most of this Hub from memory. None of it surprised me in any way. I have studied this story for 40 years. However, I have observed that on blogs of this topic, the enemy sends his destroyers to find a little error—a Church Father whose date of birth was wrong or said to be from the wrong city or died in a different place. Things that wouldn't matter if we were just talking. Then they pounce to discredit the entire purpose of the article. Since this is going into the written record of mankind, I did the research to make it airtight regarding the facts. And , if I had spoken it, it would have been 20,000 words; no one has the attention span to read that much unless it is in a book. So, a lot of the research was to compare all the possible words, quotes, photos, to do my best in condensing to this brevity.
I know all about the Historical Jesus Project. That is a project of unbelievers who set out to deconstruct Jesus and Christianity. We know Jesus existed as well as we know any person of antiquity existed. I have never heard anybody doubt that Plato or Thucydides or Muhammad existed. The story of Jesus life itself, and of his first and then later disciples speaks for itself that it is not fiction. What year is it? The human race does not date its calender from the birth of Santa Claus.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are not in the Vatican and never have been. They are in the Museum of Israel and have been studied by scholars from around the world.
Jesus never "lived with" Mary Magdalene. Please don't take your history from the Da Vinci Code—its own author says it is fiction. This other Jesus is quite attractive? If he is as you imply just a nice feller, then he is also a liar and a lunatic (based on his own words). Hardly attractive.
But let's follow your theory through: WHAT political powers made up this story? Jews? They rejected and crucified him, as you do. The Romans? They murdered 100,000 Christians. There was no Roman Catholic Church for another 500 years. Christians had zero political power until maybe 393. So, what political power motivated all those martyrs for Jesus?
There is no information as accurate from the 1st Century as the New Testament. No documents have ever, in history, been as scrutinized and picked over and there they stand. It is the Truth. Believe it or not.
Namaste - there is so much anger and emotion in what you say!!!
your quote There is no information as accurate from the 1st Century as the New Testament. No documents have ever, in history, been as scrutinized and picked over and there they stand. It is the Truth. Believe it or not.
This comes from such a programmed mind for it is the 24 or so manuscripts which they ditched when they wrote the bible that are the ones to look at.
Also, some of the Dead Sea scrolls are available, it is the truth that some are still in the Vatican and are being considered for release as we approach the coming traumatic times for they fear that they have completely hoaxed the mainstream. It will be too late for the many to take these truths on board by the time they are released. Please do more research on this subject for you do hoax your readers too.
Namaste
Luke 22:36
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
This sword was not to be used to stop the arrest of Christ, it was to be carried in the travels of the Apostles while teaching the word of God. One can only imagine it's purpose as it does not further state. I assure you it was not for a tooth pick LOL.
When the Lord returns he will return with a sword not as a Lamb.
The 50 caliber is the most powerful rifle cartridge in production today.
To every time there is a season and to know that season when you see it will Be a gift from God. I for one will stand ready to protect the innocent and I will not accept the Mark of Satan and I will not die on my knees as a slave but on my feet as a Warrior in the Lords Army.
God sponsored many a war as told in the story of David. The season of war will arise again in Gods name and if it becomes so during my life I will be ready.
We live in a time of many false prophets and natural disasters are rising in frequency, the Thunders are loud so be weary of each days events.
The origin is a great study and I always enjoy another perspective from a well studied person. I will take time to read those of quality as this one was. My preference is to study the end times as I believe they are upon us.
Mr. Watkins, your kind responses to evil attacks are quite a remarkable trait in one in the times we live. The attackers who are wise only in their own eyes don't even realize they were asking for coals to be heaped upon their own head and as stated in the scriptures they have earned their own reward. May God show them mercy.
Universal Laws— I am sorry if I seemed angry to you. I could hardly believe you thought so, so I reread my words just now. I was not the least bit angry about what you wrote. And I attempted to be as gentle as possible.
I can only respond to your "programmed mind" remark that you are making broad assumptions about who I am when you have no idea. There is no blind faith in me. No serious scholar doubts the accuracy of the New Testament texts that we use today. There are scholars who don't believe what they texts say and mean, of course.
The Dead Sea Scrolls do not contain the New Testament, so I fail to see your point. And the most shocking thing to scholars about the scrolls was how accurately they matched the Hebrew Bible.
What gives you the idea that part of the scrolls are in the Vatican?
What manuscripts do you suppose were "ditched" when the Canon of the New Testament was assembled?
50 Calibre— Thank you for your awesome commentary. We have Darwinism to thank for the upsurge in man's unbelief. This led directly to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot murdering tens of millions of people. Because if people are mere beasts, why not kill them? We kill cows and chickens by the millions. This has led to deconstructionism and moral relativism—and so called "new age" philosophies, as man becomes disconnected from who he is.
I appreciate your wise words.
quoted from your reply
"Jesus never "lived with" Mary Magdalene. Please don't take your history from the Da Vinci Code—its own author says it is fiction. This other Jesus is quite attractive? If he is as you imply just a nice feller, then he is also a liar and a lunatic (based on his own words). Hardly attractive.
But let's follow your theory through: WHAT political powers made up this story? Jews? They rejected and crucified him, as you do."
What statements you make and then try to attach them to another!!! My research took 20 years of intrigue, excitement and inspiration - not the De Vinci Code! "They rejected and crucified him, as you do" where did that come from. As far as my understanding goes Jesus the Nazarine was never crucified until dead but I hear and feel how closed you are to new knowledge so will not waste words on the rest of the history. But your information on the Dead Sea Scrolls is very lacking and if you do not know about the ones still in the Vatican together with many, many other manuscripts then you have not researched in this area at all. I wish you well but as the next 6 months pass you will see why information is the key to survival. By the way the historical Jesus who was educated with the Essenes was an enlightened man who used the disciplines he was taught of meditation,heightened awareness and raising his consciousness to show what was possible for all - as I said before he said words to the effect of "Everything I can do, you can do and more" why would you call him a liar, lunatic or even just a nice feller!!!! The Bible was constructed in the form it is in today around 312AD if you check who was in power at that time you will understand why it is as it is.
All of the higher beings including the one known here at one time as Jesus are working now to wake up those who prefer to act as robots waiting for someone else to save them.
Namaste
I have just gone back over all your replies to others and you are truly an angry man. I will not choose to join in more discussions here after reading your language and insults and would ask you "HOW WOULD JESUS ANSWER, HOW WOULD HE FEEL TOWARDS PEOPLE JOINING IN DISCUSSION" meditate on that and maybe your heart will open......
Universal Laws— Hi there! It is nice to see you again! You are a very nice young lady. I haven't heard anyone say Jesus "lived with" Mary Magdelene except Dan Brown. If I mistook him for your source, I apologize.
What I said about "lunatic or liar" comes from C.S. Lewis, a rather learned man from Oxford. Since Jesus claimed he was the Messiah, and if one had seen Him one had seen God the Father in the flesh and on and on and on, Lewis opposed this "nice feller" trend that was nascent in his day. Lewis didn't say it in anger; he said it matter of factly. Either Jesus is who He said He was or he lied OR he was crazy.
It seems to me that you said Christianity was invented by a "political power" and I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by asking "what political power" might that be. I just thought it was a preposterous statement and I really wanted to know "what political power?" You never did answer. Instead you insisted the question itself was "angry." I am so sorry you feel that way. Geez a guy can't even ask a question.
I assume you reject Jesus as your savior but I meant no insult by saying so. If you don't believe in Jesus, rejecting Him should be a badge of honor, not an insult.
I am very sorry I don't agree with your Jesus theory. They just aren't true, honey. If there was a teentsy weentsy chance they were I would say, "maybe your right." These are goofy conspiracy theories that I didn't think anybody actually believed. I thought you were kidding around. I asked you, darling, for evidence that the Vatican had the Dead Sea Scrolls—not because I am angry, because it's not true. I wish it was, but it's not. Nobody believes that except you and maybe 10 other folks. I am so sorry.
And I feel bad that your theory of the New Testament being "invented" in 312 is not true. I know you'd feel better if it was. I feel bad that all scholars have concluded the books used in 99 AD were the same ones used in 312. 18 of those books have been proven to have been used in every Christian Community thousands of miles apart—an extraordinary coincidence, if you will—in the identical form today that they exist today. Now it's true there was debate about the other nine books because all the scattered Bishops didn't have them all yet and wanted to study them prayerfully; and maybe 5-7 books were read in a few scattered churches that were not accepted as canonical in the end—not that there was anything wrong with them per se. I am sorry this doesn't fit in your conspiracy theory so neatly. I am not mad about it and I hope you're not either.
Truly an angry man! Oh sweetie! I'm not mad at you and never was. If you can't answer two innocent questions about the theories you put forth I'm sorry. I didn't mean to question you in any way that would get yer panties in a bunch. namaste!
Universal Laws,
I read what you said, “I wish you well but as the next 6 months pass you will see why information is the key to survival.”
Pardon me for the intrusion, but this appears to be some sort of a “prophecy” and I was wondering if you have a Hub with all of the details concerning your statement?
Please do not mistake my question as some sort of attack, it is not. I just want to know what you are talking about and who gave you your information?
Thank You.
This is a well researched and well written hub concerning the evidence of Christ's life. Thank you for sharing it.
James great Hub! I love History, especially Church history. You filled in some wholes for me. Thanks a bunch!
In Christ
ABR
David— That did sound rather ominous, didn't it? I only oppose Gnosis, or should I say, ask them for proof of the validity of their ideas, for one reason. I know a lot of folks tune in who don't even know what we are talking about and are easily swayed by this New Age BS. Thanks for asking a fine and pertinent question, Brother.
ecoggins— You are quite welcome. I appreciate you taking the time to read it. I made it as short as I could but there is a lot to tell. :)
ABrushing1968— I absolutely love history, and especially church history. We have that in common.
I just now bookmarked your profile page as you have quite a few interesting titles on there. I will read some of your work soon. Welcome to the Hub Pages Community!
Interesting reading. I wonder if you realize how you come across using terms like "New Age BS."
Entertaining reading, and well laid out, but to answer your question, "How could a person who was obscure during His lifetime became the most famous person of all time?"
Easy. War, conflict, armies subduing nations, aggressive expansionism into otherwise backwards cultures and years of heavy indoctrination of children not to ask any questions.
That is how. Read any history book - you will see that is how it spreads.
James...
I need to respond to your remark....About religion? It's just a mere word, like hum...Denomination....You see, they have nothing to do with being saved....And Faith does, for in Faith, we are saved by His Grace....Our Pastor did a sermon once, and he asked, "What does religion have to do with getting into Heaven?" He surprised a lot of people when he said nothing. He also said, "Religion is just a word...Some people use it to discribe their beliefs, just like they use their Denomination, and that's a mere word too. And Baptism is something you do to show the world your love for Jesus." (And yes, I have been Baptized.)
Jesus already knows we love Him...We proved that, when we accepted Him as our Savior....And through Him only, will we see Heaven, for we have been saved through Faith, by His Grace.....God Bless!
Amazing images!
Mark Knowles— Maybe BS doesn't come across that well. I will refrain in the future.
Well, perhaps your theory explains the spread of Islam pretty well. But Christianity no war or army and very few children to "indoctrinate" during the period I discussed in this article as it blossomed from maybe a few thousand adherents to millions while under intense persecution.
Thanks for reading and leaving your comments.
ellie1142545— You are absolutely right. I agree that no one is saved by belonging to a religion or denomination. Salvation comes through accepting Grace. I appreciate your clarification. :)
MrSmiley—Thank You! And Welcome to the Hub Pages Community.
Thank You James, I am a believer. I am thrilled you share the truth. There is one way to heaven. Through Him Jesus. I believe many could come to Christ with your hub. Great witnessing for the Lord. This hub took much work. In his Name. "job well done Good and Faithful Servent" I think Jesus will share that with you. I joined your fan club check me out when you have a moment
I joined hubs a few months ago. Hub Pages has some wonderful authors
skye2day— Yes. I am a fan of yours. I commented on the "Helping Others" Hub.
I am humbled and yet elated at your remarks. Thank you very much. This weekend I intend to publish part two. I am stunned that this Hub has attracted well over 1000 visitors!
James - you have given me an idea for a hub. I will write one filling in the blanks after the Roman Empire to explain how it spread after the Romans adopted it. Thanks. :)
Mark,
Cool. When you get 'er done, I'll check it out. Thank you. And you're welcome.
An interesting and well written historical Hub, James. I certainly learned many new things. It seems that your Hub is inspiring others, the sign of a very good article.
A little pushed for time, at the moment, but you have given me some ideas about a couple of Hubs from the Orthodox angle!
PS - Don't worry about yes2truth - he is notorious for haunting pretty much every media site in the UK with his venom. I stopped responding a long time ago.
Mind you, apparently, I am part of an evil Orthodox/Catholic conspiracy lol
Sufidreamer— I have a fine appreciation of Orthodoxy. The great Christian Historian, Juroslav Pelikan, converted to Eastern Orthodoxy after he completed his magnum opus, the five-volume The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine (1971-1989—Which I have read and used as one of my references for this piece.
Do those Hubs! I'll be pleased to read them.
Actually, my next Hub on this topic will be ready this weekend and is about the history from Constantine to Augustine. Naturally, Basil, Chrysostom, and both Gregorys are in there.
Thank you for visiting. I am quite pleased you did. :D
Excellent - I look forward to reading your next installment. I know a couple of English speaking priests, so I will pass the link on to them.
The Orthodox ones may take a while - I am snowed under with deadlines, and I want to get out and about and take some photos of Greek Churches and icons.
Have a good one!
Sufidreamer— By all means do that! Your own photos of Churches and icons will add a lot to your piece—when you have the time. :)
I would greatly appreciate you passing on the link to this humble page. Thank you!
James
You certainly have some robust comments on your hubs and this one is no exception.
I enjoyed the history and the depth of your hub, but I think that there is a difference between a Creator and a God.
The difference is that the God wants something for the creation, while a Creator that is not a God can be satisfied with just the creation.
The Old and the New Testament don't explain or have any answers on creation. Neither of these documents were written with any more knowledge or intelligence possessed by humans. Genesis, paints a picture story but it cannot be used to explain our creation.
Man is a curious, analytical and intelligent life form. Mankind has used these attributes to make scientific break throughs and discoveries. Religion substitutes Faith for answers. Science questions everything until it can resolve the answer. Theories, postulates and even scientific laws are not real answers, they are place holders until a real answer can be found. They change as we learn more and more about things and how they work. Religion stands pat with the hand that it was dealt from the beginning. Any attack on their veracity is countered with Faith. It must be true because that is what the Testament says about it.
No child has ever questioned how Santa Clause can go around the world in one night delivering presents to all the children in the world. For the children that believe in Santa, he is real. But Santa doesn't exist in the world.
By this time many hubbers are gathering firewood and looking for a suitable spot to burn me at the stake for saying these things. The fact is that we all have a brain, a very intelligent brain compared to the rest of the life forms on Earth. Why are we expected to stifle that intelligence in the name of Faith.
If it is true, questioning it will not change it, and in fact it may give scientific credibility to the Religious beliefs and God.
If the Old Testament was the original word of God, then why do we need the New Testament. Neither of these documents have change for the better the way people act in the world. If anything, things have gotten worse.
As far as religions go, to my knowledge only the Catholics believe in Purgatory. Most of the other religions, at least that I am aware of, treat heaven as a pass fail. While Purgatory makes it Pass, Fail and Summer School to make up the credits to pass. Pass, Fail by itself is not fail. Some people will pass by doing very little, while others will have done good for a lifetime.
I don;t believe that the Old Testament mentions Jesus or the Holy Ghost. In the New Testament, God has a Son and a Holy Ghost. Jesus is now between us and God, but in the Old Testament we were close with no intermediary.
The concept of Angels having wings is closer to mythology than reality. Surely, Angels don't power themselves with wings. We are not told how many Angels there are in heaven. The only reference to how many is that one third of them went with Satan. That could be a low as six total.
My point is that all of the religious references about God, Angels, Devils and other things are made with human concepts. Assuming for the point that there is no God, the Old and New Testament and Religion could have developed the same way it is today.
Science has determined that the Universe is about 14 billion years old and the Earth is only 5 billion. What they can't determine is what is on the other side of the Big Bang. It is possible that our Universe is only one of countless others. This would be much like a science lab conducting a number experiments, with each experiment being a Universe.
These are my thoughts and my questions, they are not intended to change your faith. I do think that if God want unquestioned loyalty, the Earth would be covered with dogs. Humans are more native to being cats.
My fleeting words are about your mention of the Christians taking the lions rather than saving their life is because they see a quick way to Heaven. This is also shared, I imagine by the Islamic Terrorists that blow themselves up to get to Heaven.
Thanks for letting me visit, I did go long so feel free to trim it or delete it..
There is a huge difference between the early Christians, who despite the persecution followed "The Way" which was what Jesus the Nazarine taught and the disciplines he himself practiced. This was replaced when the New Testament was put together and followed more Paul's christianity. All of the manuscripts which were left out, talked of the feminine aspects, reincarnation and his marriage to Mary Magdalen.
There are still parts of the bridal ceremony in the bible but unless you understand the bridal rituals from that time, the church is not going to show you, In the annointing by Mary the first time in september 30 ad and the second time in march 33ad . There was always a three year gap in Messianic marraiges so they could be anulled if children could not be conceived. Bridal ritual was the only annointing ceremony where Spikenard was used. The nuptial annointing was the privalege of a messianic bride. Jesus was heir to the Davidian line, Messiah means the annointed one not the religious explanation.The final annointing consecration was called mashach. Thru this three year gap before a messianic marriage was completed you can also understand why his mother Mary was said to be a virgin. The name given to a woman who was first married was "Almah" which was the name of a probationary bride who was waiting to conceive not a virgin. When she had conceived she would not be called almah. In the bible they have wrongly called this word to mean "virgin". It was indeed an "almah" that conceived but mary would have been three months pregnant in her probationary period.
In order to fully understand the hoax that was carried out through religious teachers you would need to understand the history of the time and this is not taught. It is only if you have an open mind and can get beyond the programming that you would research and check out all of this information. The proof of the marriage is in the bible but only if you understand what they were doing and why.
You can if you do the research see that the words were also changed for Mary into prostitute during the translations. also check out the changes that were made to the original Lords Prayer and the words "in the beginning was the word" the real word was not "word" but "creative force/energy" that was why Jesus taught "the way" it is inside you not outside of you in some book, church or through the beliefs of others.
When true research is carried out you will see the truth - check it out for yourselves.
Namaste
David - no other way of contacting you but here so just to say please check out my hubs.
opinion duck— I appreciate your thoughtful commentary. In my view God is the Creator. The Earth had a beginning and will have an end. This idea may have been scoffed at by scientists after Darwin, for a time. But the Big Bang Theory seems to vindicate what those ancients in the time of Moses, and before, already knew somehow from the Genesis account—out of nothing came all this. And most scientists agree now that the Universe cannot expand forever, either. I see no conflict between Science and God. The knowledge gained through science can, like all knowledge, be used for good or for evil—to justify belief in God or to deny his existence. The scientific revolution had its origins in Christianity—all of the great scientists of the past 500 years prior to Darwin were Christians. They believed that since God is orderly and His universe operates according to His laws, that these laws as applied to our natural universe could be discovered and understood.
The Old Testament predicts a Messiah or Savior will come. That is why the Jews at the time of Jesus expected one. This was a major part of Judaism, the expectation of a coming Messiah based on their Scriptures. As far as Jesus and the Holy Spirit, God did say—oddly it seemed at the time—"Let US make man in our own image." Second person plural.
I cannot agree that Religion has done no good in the world. What we today call charity was virtually invented by religious people. Missions all over the planet have served the poorest of the poor, and the sick. Our concept of a hospital came from Christianity as well as the modern university for learning. The billions of people comforted in times of distress—fed, clothed, housed, ministered to, addictions overcome, protected—even all of the ministers who tend to people at funerals and hospitals has surely made a huge positive mark in this world. If we think the world is bad now, and it is, try looking back at the last 2000 years without religion, remembering that Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot had none. The amount of restraint that there has been has surely been fortified by the belief in the promises of blessings—and curses—inherent in religion; and of a final judgment.
God surely does not want robots, that is what Faith is for.
Universal Laws— Paul's Epistles were in use in every Christian Church before the 1st Century ended. The books you are referring to as "left out" were created 50-100 years after the fact and rejected. Might you reveal the title of just one of the books you are referring to?
Nard was used to anoint the bodies of the dead and dying. That is why it was used on Jesus days before His death. If Jesus had been married, surely his Apostles, who knew him better than you or I, would have mentioned it somewhere.
It is not a closed mind that is my difficulty. I have 3000 books on the wall behind me. Your idea of this "hoax" is simply too incredible. First, his 11 Apostles would have agreed to lie about who Jesus was to them—and then agree to be executed for their beliefs. Then the hundreds of thousands of martyrs killed by the Romans would have all been in on it because none of them said, "I will accept death to be a part of this hoax." Read "Foxes Book of Martyrs" if you are open minded about who these people were and why they were willing to die for one thing: The Resurrection after the Crucifixion. THAT is what it is all about. That is the central theme of the story of Jesus: that He was crucified and resurrected. That is what his Apostles believed; that is what Mary Magdelene believed; that is what the 1st Century Church believed—in direct contact with the Apostles themselves; that is what Christianity has believe through all centuries since.
And this "hoax" by religious teachers is so far fetched it strains the imagination. You do realize you are talking about "religious teachers" thousands of miles apart, from Britain to Persia, from vastly different cultures, most of who never met each other, with little if any communication, all conspiring together. And for what? What was in it for them? They lived very austere lives and suffered torture and death. So why would all of these disparate individuals participate in a hoax of the magnitude you claim, over hundreds of years; and how was it coordinated when they were so far apart?
James
You got it right there, "The Way" is a cult injection of the past fables, started by immitators, and false disciples as mentioned in the new testament. This is also how Islam started and got its claws stuck into peoples minds.
Nice going here Jesus is God and if "The Way" followers dont see this man they are getting a big surprise when their way falls away.
James, I liked your article. I enjoyed the way you put this together and the way it was presented. I learned something, and I am thankful for your effort. I found it mind numbing to read through the comments however. Possibly this type of exchange is the main reason I cannot venture into these waters on any religious topic. A good effort however on your behalf.
Religious teachers of the time were not what they seemed but as today have political and power agendas. The christianity from Paul was completely different right from the beginning, he never met Jesus the Nazarine! He repeated compilations of what he heard and was promoted by the political powers of the time because his version suited them - people would become victims of a religion and its rules rather than find "the way" which empowers people and enables them to grow spiritually not religiously.
You will be telling me next that the Catholic church had nothing to do with Hitler in the war!!!
Disciples of "the way" know the truth by personal experience as the gnostics did, believers of religion are just that believers of what others tell them.
I rest in peace in my knowing.
Namaste
Fantastic work, James...and beautifully done! Too bad the same ole pack of anti-history nonsense always has to rear its empty head. The historic facts are too the contrary: Based on a sufficient number of eyewitness accounts during World War II (including a Time Magazine article dated at THAT time, in favor of Pope Pius XII), reputable historians have totally rebuked that nonsense. Therefore, repeating it, like a parrot, only serves to demonstrate a lack of historic knowledge. In addition, Pope Pius XII is going through the process of sainthood and NOTHING on Earth can stop the occurrence of miracles, etc., necessary to move the process forward. By the way, the option of attending Church (Mass) everyday of the week is so COOL because it keeps one completely out of that worn out Saturday-Sunday "argument"! And I know about "arguments"...I'm into Catholic apologetics and I debate in a history forum. It's good to see your fantastic work, James.
Very informative hub!Thank you for adding to my knowledge base. I refuse to debate the existence of God, Jesus, Satan and all the rest.I am comfortable in my beliefs and understanding...mother always said you can bring the horse to the well, but you can not make him drink.
James
I agree with you in the sense that both a God and Religion is very useful for the world. Someone, I believe said that if there was really no God, then we would invent one. The reason, I believe is that believing in God is a comfort for us.
Again, my original comment contained my questions and I still don't have answers to them.
I just have more questions.
I do believe that Religion and Science should have the same answers.
I will leave it at that.
Thanks for letting me visit.
GRIM REAPER— I have not exactly been looking forward to your visit—though I knew it would come. :(
Just Kidding!
Thank you for your comments.
arafel93— I did consider deleting some of the comments by the trolls above. But I believe in Free Speech and have never deleted a comment during my time on Hub Pages. I know it creates some unpleasantness for readers. But what can I do?
Thank you for your kind comments and welcome to the Hub Pages Community!
Universal Laws— How little you know about the Apostle Paul if you think he was backed up by the "political powers" of his day. Are you kidding? He was whipped, stoned, repeatedly arrested and imprisoned and finally beheaded. Good God Almighty. Where do you get this "secret knowledge?" Please share with all of us "dummies" your sources so we can be enlightened, too. Don't keep us all in the dark! :(
And no, the Catholic Church was not aligned with Hitler. I agree they should have done more to stop him. But so should have the peaceniks around the world, and Neville Chamberlain and the French!
Tina Irene— I have been to Catholic Mass and I enjoyed it. I enjoy all church services regardless of denomination, where the faithful are gathered together in His Name.
Pius XII may be guilty of not volunteering for modern day martyrdom—but who isn't? I don't want to be executed for my beliefs either. I think we should all read the story of Dietrich Bonhoeffer to learn what a real Christian looks like.
Thank you for adding your wisdom to this thread.
annaw— You are absolutely right. But . . . I'll keep dragging those horses to the water anyway. Who knows? They might drink secretly. And if ONE does, I have accomplished my purpose. Thanks for visiting and commenting.
Awesome
ftgfmom— Thank you and Welcome to the Hub Pages~
People what the story is obout? Haven't you see the "zeitheist" film. Religion is an cancer on a body of humanity
You guys know these are made up people, right?
Which ones jooce?
Banker— Christianity is no cancer, friend. It has been the greatest gift ever to humankind. That is self evident by any intelligent consideration of history.
Yes, I know about "Zeitgeist." While there may be some truth to its last argument, that a cabal of bankers play a large part running the world—a theory that has been around for centuries, by the way; nothing new to see there . . . the other two parts about Christianity and 9/11 are utter nonsense. You may read my Hub "The Origin of Christianity" where I put the former to bed, just for people like you.
Jooce— And I am made up and you are made up. And we never went to the moon. And aliens planted people on Earth. And there never was a Roman Empire, Sir Isaac Newton, or Vladimir Lenin. The whole world is just made up. I am glad you have it all figured out for us. Thanks!
nightlymistress— I think it means all of them. :-)
Great explanation, James. Pagan historians mentioned Christians in their writings and there are many more extant copies of different books of the Bible than any ancient book.
This despite the effort to destroy the Bible in ancient times It speaks for itself. God's word won't be destroyed.
I have a completely different take on your hub now James, keep on commenting and hubbing your programming and I say this to all the others commenting and backing you because it is waking up more and more of the people who know the real truth!!!
Reading what has been written here and the vein in which most of it is written is a pure horror story but tells us how many people are still so asleep, anaethatised by programming and misinformation. This is all intellectual argument there has been no spiritual understanding or any feel of spirituality or real inner experience from any of the so called "christians". It appears that all of you are totally mind controlled by a book called the Bible and other books that back it up!!!!! How do you feel inside, you in particular appear angry and defensive most of the time and I dont think we need to mention the rigidity of your mind.
It has certainly pushed me to tell more and more of the truth as I know it and as I read I see others who are being prompted to be pro-active in their missions. We have the ability to experience the truth and knowing within inside of ourselves and this is true teaching. Others learn through feeling and experiencing how another is not through the words they speak. We all relate on a vibrational level and you can only appease those who also operate on a purely intellectual level of 'I am told this therefore it is true - and if I dont believe this I will go to a place called hell.'
This hub has shown the absolutely huge gap now between those "who know" and those "who believe" and this is how it was predicted all those years ago. Jesus the Nazarine taught others "to know". The contrived christian religion taught people to believe in a doctrine which kept their consciousness undeveloped, in fact it continues to be a sin to develop your own sense of self?
Do any of you not question this.
Namaste
Universal Law, while reading what you said in your comment, I couldn't help but notice how you talk of consciousness. Exactly what does that mean? What is your consciousness?
I also saw that you wrote about intellectual levels and vibrational levels.
Here is what I see from your comment. You are your own God. Only you can be God. Jesus taught that only you can be God. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe this is what you mean.
Jesus did in fact teach tha all men are sin ners. He not only taught it, but he also proved it. David wrote, I was concieved in iniquity and born in sin. Show me one person who has never told a lie in their whole life, other than Jesus.
This is really insightful article about origins of Christianity. It helps to build a good foundation for one's personal faith. Thanks!
Deltachord— Thank you for your incisive comments. It is amazing that the Bible survives after the countless attempts to destroy all existing copies in the first three centuries. It is also amazing that our very days are numbered from the Birth of Jesus on our calenders.
Universal Laws— I am not angry or defensive. I am flabbergasted at your repeated use of straw men and nonsense, all of which I have asked you back up and you ignore that because you have no knowledge or wisdom.
1st you claimed the Dead Sea Scrolls were in the Vatican. Then you claimed a whole other history of Jesus life had been written that I just don't know about. When I asked you for your sources; you said I was angry. You said 24 manuscripts had been cut from the Bible; I asked what were they? No answer except "I am programmed." Then you said Christianity is a hoax. I asked on what proofs do you base that assertion? No answer. Then you claimed Christianity was founded by a great political power and I asked "What political power? You said I am a very angry man but ignored my question. You quoted right out of the Da Vinci Code and when I observed this and asked if you had any other sources you said I was ignorant and that you were a higher being—but you had no answer for my question. Then you claimed the Epistles of Paul were added to the New Testament later on when in fact they were the first books used. You claimed Jesus was married to Mary Magdelene and believed in reincarnation—the latter certainly in direct opposition to everything Jesus taught. When asked to supply the sources for these delusions you only answered that I don't understand history or time. Then you claimed Paul was the puppet of political powers—a complete absurdity—and that the Catholic Church backed Hitler. Where is the backup for all of the figments of your imagination? You provide zero.
So, now you say the most beautiful story in history is a horror story believed by sleeping, anesthetized, rigid, ignorant, angry, defensive people who just haven't evolved as you have. Incredibly you claim Christians are not spiritual when Christianity is the very definition of spirituality. Finally you claim Christianity is both devoid of "feelings" and has too many "feelings." Yes we revere the Truth. And the Bible. Because the Bible is the Truth. Vibrations notwithstanding.
SirDent— You, on the other hand, are shot full of wisdom and grace. I thank you, sir, for your comments. But there are no answers coming. Only more insults from a higher evolved being than ourselves. And that might be true. Beelzebub is much older and smarter than we are and he is the source of this poor woman's words.
pejupu— Thank you for your affirmation of the Truth. I appreciate it. Welcome to the Hub Pages Community.
Very Good education for us James! I believed in GOD the FATHER Creator of Heaven and Earth and everything in it! So myself, I don't need to know the origin of Christianity. As I believed Christianity started as soon as Jesus Christ started his Ghospel and his twelve disciples are the first Christians!
More power to you and may God blessed you always!
ALB21467— Thank you very much! And welcome to the Hub Pages Community. I am glad you are well grounded. I agree, the Gospels and the Apostles are the source of Christianity.
Even if they reject it, we must tell the truth. They do not reject me and you, but they reject God Himself.
SirDent— Great point! And if they reject God the Father and Creator, that is indeed sad. Thanks, Brother!
Thanks James and keep up the good work.
Deltachord— You are welcome and thank you!
I am sure that intelligent people who view this hub and its comments will read what I said and not what you and one other have insinuated that I said. When you read my comments and make of it what you have in the last comment then you are truly showing where you are really at in yourself. You welcome nobody here unless they also have been completely programmed by religious books. You have nothing to say unless its been written in a religious book.
There is no debate here it is a hub for those completely taken in by the religion called christianity. This debate has nothing to do with who Jesus really was and what he taught.
James, any answer or historical research reference I could give you are not acceptable to you because they were not reported in the bible, it would be pointless. You have not checked up on anything I have already said because you do not want to know, you would rather just shout them down. You would learn a lot from all those who have questioned your total belief in a book rather than your inner spirit.
A huge amount of people know that there are miles and miles of corridors of books in the Vatican including Dead Sea Scrolls which only a very very select few have ever had access to - lest the people know the real truth. You shout so fiercely with your words at any of these truths that I tell because you are afraid.
Namaste
Universal Laws, Jesus died for you too. You speak of giving historical references and you say that the books are in the Vatican, but you have yet to name one title, show one weblink, etc. . . Why are you afraid of us?
Also, no one is shouting at you.
Universal Laws— Am I shouting? Am I afraid? Do I only read religious books? Have I made you feel unwelcome?
I do appreciate your commentaries.
SirDent— THANK YOU!!! :-0
Sorry . . . was I shouting?
Interesting debate, folks.
I might not agree with James and Sir Dent about everything, but I will vouch for them both as avid readers of history books!
We tend to have a different angle over here - Greek Orthodox Christians, perhaps because of the strong background in philosophy, and the influence of Eastern ideas passing down the Spice Road, have a more introspective and mystical view of Christianity.
Guess that I am between the two views - certainly, addressing the inner spirit is part of the spiritual journey. It is certainly interesting :)
Sufidreamer— You know, that's not bad—the Middle Path. I am intrigued by Eastern Orthodoxy. I will get into that more soon with the Filioque and the split of the Church into East and West.
Thanks for checking in and leaving your wise words. You are always so pleasant.
Sufi, no matter what you think of Jesus or what you think of me, He is the only way. All the philosophy in the world is not nearly as good as a relationship with Jesus. I mean this with all due respect also.
SirDent— I think Eastern Orthodox is a very fine, old, big, strong branch of Christianity. So, Sufi is in good company. :D
Wow!! Another fine Hub James!! You really know your history when it comes to religion and theology!! Very informative, I'm going to download this one!
Thanks for posting! Be Blessed! ~ K
Kim Garcia— Thank you so much for the affirmation and encouragement. I also enjoy your work. I am blessed by your visits. :D
Thanks, James - You are always polite, too. I look forward to the upcoming Hub. I have skimmed through the sequel to this one, and will have a proper read through later, when I finish work for the day!
Hi Sir Dent - no offense taken at all! Polite disagreement keeps life interesting. I am deliberately not saying too much, because I want to keep my powder dry for an upcoming Hub or two :)
Basically, Greek Orthodox Christians strive to become 'Little Jesus Christs within Christ, or little Gods within God.' It means striving to reach perfection through becoming a better person and emulating Jesus. That is a bit of a crude description (difficult to translate literally), and just explaining that could take an entire Hub!
Of course, I am a fairly recent convert, and still have much to learn. Especially theological language - they use an archaic and difficult form of Greek!
Sufi, I appreciate your comment. No offense was meant in my previous comment. I also look forward to your hub.
Sufidreamer— I look forward to hearing what you think of the sequel. There are several "fathers" of Eastern Orthodoxy in it. And I will be very interested to see your Hub about this topic when it comes out. I am sure your photography will add a lot to it.
I love your description of the Faith. I mean, that IS what it is all about. Sometimes the simplest, most direct explanations are the best.
Thanks for adding so much to this discussion. Nice to hear from you again.
SirDent— You are a pleasure to have as company. Stop in and visit any time. You are always welcome.
Dear James,
Thanks for your very courteous reply. Funny you should mention Bonhoeffer. He was a friend of one of my uncles. Too bad Bonhoeffer didn't cover his tracks well enough. Losing him broke my uncle's heart. Kind of reminds me of the words to the song "The Gambler":..."You gotta know when to hold them" but when you HAVE to hold them, when forced to hold them, you gotta know HOW to hold them. That's the other "secret to surviving". Bonhoeffer didn't know HOW; Pius XII did...by the grace of God.
Blessings,
Tina Irene
Tina Irene,
A friend of mine, Eric Metaxas, is writing a book about Bonhoeffer right now. His previous book was on William Wilberforce.
That is amazing he was a friend to your uncle. And I agree, he could have been less confrontational. His Letters from Prison were powerful reading.
Thank you for the visit and the fine comments. I look forward to reading your words soon.
James
Tina Irene - quoted from your comment ", Pope Pius XII is going through the process of sainthood and NOTHING on Earth can stop the occurrence of miracles, etc., necessary to move the process forward.
You talk as if Sainthood is something to be proud of!!! If you care to look in your dictionary you will see it only means "formally recognised by the Christian Church as a Saint" the word saint means "a person who is after death formally recognised by a Christian church as deserving special honour because of having lived a very holy life".
It means nothing more and is only recognised by the church.
Personally I have met people who truly live holy lives and need not the pomp and ceremony of what the church offers. They know themselves and feel the bliss and revere all of life regardless of beliefs and personal choices. They surround themselves with the basics of life and are in service to others without the riches and hypocrosy of the church. In fact, much as Jesus the Nazarene did.......
Namaste
Universal Laws— "the word saint means "a person who is after death formally recognised by a Christian church as deserving special honour because of having lived a very holy life".
That is something to be proud of. I don't understand your disagreement. If I was honored by the Rotary Club for having lived a very holy life, would that be Ok for you?
I think Mother Teresa, for an example, did not live with riches or pomp among those lepers in Calcutta. You seem to have a twisted view of what a Saint is. We need more of them.
I agree with you that a person can be saintly with any religion or no religion. Does that mean we have to slam Mother Teresa and others like her while we are at it? Why?
James, after finishing this hub I started to read comments. I have to say you have got it together. Not reading far into the comments I had to stop and comment myself.
Not to mention which comment follows the obvious I describe in the following...even non-believers in Christ know there is good and evil, which I believe is recognition of Satan. One cannot deny that "ignorance is not knowing", "stupidity is knowing and acting ignorant". So much for the ranting. You are blessed with your ability to teach.
Timely— I have been blessed by your comments. Thank you very much for the affirmation and encouragement of your wise words.
Did I see that you wrote a Hub about the Cubs!? I will be reading that one soon. :D
Thank you for acknowledging that we are intelligent human beings and also clarifying when Christianity began, I have had this argument over and over and now I can share this with the ones who are arguing with me. :)
AEvans— I apologize for not responding to your gracious words sooner. I have been in Israel for nearly 2 weeks and just got home.
You are welcome. I appreciate the visit from you and I hope all is well.
Mardi says:
4 months ago
Thank you James for a very factual and accurate representation of the origins of Christianity. This is a very important topic for everyone as it is only through correct information that people learn, understand and come to believe.