Orlando Tea Party
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TEA PARTY PROTEST
I decided to go to the Orlando Tea Party Saturday, August 22, 2009. I was curious if the protestors were an angry, riotous mob of racist revolutionaries, after seeing news reports quoting leaders of the Democratic Party as saying so. What I found was an orderly crowd of grandpas, grandmas, couples with children, and not a few veterans. I spent two hours walking around in the crowd and the people were unfailingly polite, friendly and smiling. I took my camera with me and shot the photos on this Page.
POLITICAL TAX PARTY
The Orlando Tea Party was split into three sections. On the stage, a lineup of speakers and singers came to speak and to sing to the People. Behind the People, various organizations set up displays and booths to pitch a wide variety of causes. The People themselves were the most interesting group. They had taken the time to create handmade signs by the hundreds, don various patriotic garb, and they came to wave thousands of American Flags.
TEA PARTY PROTESTS
I have been involved in politics for many years in a more serious way than any of my family members, friends, or acquaintances (excepting those I have made as a result). But I had never heard of any of the People who had decided to organize this event; nor any of those scheduled to speak.
The Orlando Tea Party was inspired by Floridians Unite, a group founded six months prior by one Lisa Feroli to protest the Stimulus Act, with the assistance of her father, two sisters, best friend, and local radio host, Bud Hedinger.
TEA PARTY IDEAS
The speakers included: David McKalip MD, founder of www.doctorsforpatientfreedom.com (Health Care); Joyce Mucci, of www.fairus.org (immigration Reform); Adam Guillette, www.afphq.org (Cap and Trade); Tom Gaitens, www.freedomworks.org (Less Government, Lower Taxes, and Greater Freedom); Bob Samson of www.floridafrontiersmen.org (Gun Rights); and an unidentified person from www.sovereigntyaction.com (States Rights). The Emcee was entertainer Lloyd Marcus (www.LloydMarcus.com).
POLITICAL TEA PARTIES
I went for a walk to visit the booths and pick up brochures from each of them. They represent a wide range of issues. Smart Girls Politics is a grassroots organization that promotes the values of Conservative Women. Fair Tax wants to abolish the Internal Revenue Service. Minutemen Civil Defense Corps exists to push for border security. The 9-12 Project seeks to unite all Americans around the core values and principles for which our nation stands. Resistnet aims to oppose Collectivism and preserve individual liberty. Free Republic opposes Social Liberalism across the spectrum of issues. Advocates for Self-Government is an organization the favors Libertarianism.
ORLANDO FL
Eight other Tea Party groups from around Florida came to participate. Several individuals set up booths to announce or promote their candidacy for office in the elections next year. And there were groups opposed to a Swine Flu Vaccine Mandate; that work to lower Florida Property Tax Assessments in light of plummeting real property values in the state; and a few who were present to pass out DVDs warning of the coming New World Order, the world domination of the Bilderbergers, and the shenanigans of the Federal Reserve.
ORLANDO TEA PARTY
The People I will not tell about but instead I will use some of my photos to show who they were and what the scene was at the Orlando Tax Party. There was no violence, no fighting, no arguing, no shouting, no vulgarity, no vandalism, no littering, no injuries and no arrests—such as we usually see at Left Wing protests.
I previously published Hubs about "The Founding Fathers" "Mortgage Crisis Caused Worldwide Financial Meltdown" and "Conservative."
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Comments
Hardly the out of control mob we've been told is typical of these protests. Of the groups you mentioned there are a few who the left marginalizes such as gun rights advocates, anti-abortionists and border security groups. I was part of a border security org. as well as a civilian anti-terror org. for a while. It was disheartening that 99% of Americans just don't understand what's happening. Some of what I learned while part of those orgs. I can't relate, but suffice to say that we don't hear half of what's actually happening.
Evenso, America's problem is spiritual. The political/social problems we're having are merely a reflection of the spritual war being waged now for our souls as we head straight for the Great Tribulation.
Thanks James, it looks like the organizers did a fine job.
That mob looked like a cross section of Americans. Great Pics, thanks. How did they manage to pull that off without interference from the usual susspects.
WOW..!! Simply wonderful Hub, James...I loved the little doggie with the sign " I didn't read it either "...Too much, and so right...
Great pics and commentary...The MSM would never publish a story such as this...Larry
A Texan— I was lucky to get out alive! Rough crowd.
Thanks for your comments and: you are my first visitor!
Hxprof— I certainly agree with your summation. I'll bet a large part of this crowd also does. Your wise words are a great addition to this thread. Thank you for them.
greatAmerican— I did not see a single person opposed except maybe a few with signs that lumped Obama, Bush and Clinton together as puppets of an international banking cabal.
It was very well organized but not widely promoted. I didn't even hear about it until the day before and then from a good friend. And I thought I was on every mailing list in town.
Thanks for the visit.
maven101— I loved that doggie, too, Larry. I thank you so much for your kind comments. It's always great to hear from you.
Exactly what I would expect from people who love our country, no riots, no fights - just want to keep it the way our founding fathers did...as little government as possible. Great pictures by the way!
Pictures are worth a thousand words. The doggie was a hit in my house. Loved it.
Great photos! Maybe the party's too tame. Media will pay attention if there's more heat and sensationalism. So, bring it on! Hawaii as you know is democrats turf, so we're probably not going to see much of these, except in Fox!
Would have loved to be there to take pics too ;
LOVE the pics and glad you covered this event!
Interesting!!!! G
James my brother! Great Hub and pics. I'm glad that people are protesting like this, it is quite encouraging to see. I just finished reading the book Meltdown, by Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - it's a free market look at why the economy tanked and why the government bailouts will make everything worse! I Highly recommend it, and a great line near the end of the book is classic... we need "separation of money and state" If we want our government to be held accountable to the people, we have to remove their ability to control the money supply!!! You mentioned the Shenanigans of the Fed, but in reality they are a primary and foundational culprit behind this economic mess we're in. There's too few people discussing the problems of a central bank and their monopoly control over money and the manipulation of interest rates. You just can't allow this kind of government control in a free-market economy. So, let's push for the separation of money and the state!
James,
Good hub and pictures. I am wondering, how it was reported in Orlando?
Great hub! Thank you! Great to see that still there are some people in this country with right mind and common sense. I just never understood where all these people were before the election. Didn't they know how insane Obama presidency was going to be?
James,
Great information and truth in what you saw. God bless America and people who are called to rally, and those like you who enter in to do some truth reporting - blessings to you!
Great hub James, my friend. You know my heart, how much I love this country.
Thanks for the hub James,
So Grandma wasn't out burning her bra or anything like that, and grandpa was out there in his VW van. smoking it up.
Keep on Hubbing!
GREAT HUB!!! lol, lol, lol, What a MOB!!!! Wonderful pics! Love you much!
fivehorns— Nice to hear from you! I am pleased the folks met your expectations. :)
I am all for the Founding Fathers—wrote a Hub about them!
Thank you for your fine comments.
ftgfmom— Thank you so much for your remarks. I loved that little doggie, too. I have one that size myself.
IslandVoice— Thank you! I love photography. I hadn't busted out my camera in quite a while. There was some loud cheering and occasional loud booing (caused on purpose by the speakers of course—not booing at them, booing with them) if that counts as wildness. :D
I always enjoy seeing your comments. Thanks.
GPAGE— Thank you! It was fun and interesting. Maybe you can make the next one! :)
John Thorman— My Brother! Great to hear from you! Where is Andrew Jackson when we need him!? He knew how to handle those banks. So did Abe Lincoln when he made those greenbacks instead of paying 36% interest to European bankers to finance the Civil War efforts of the North. History shows it was Woodrow Wilson who was duped into what we have now—fiat money, as you so ably wrote about in your article, which was brilliant by the way. You should put your link in the comment box. I appreciate your comments here, too.
RBurow— Thank you.
Great question and a curious answer: I found NO mention of it in the Orlando Sentinel. Like it never happened. Isn't that odd?
Wanderlust— Thank you very much, and you are welcome.
You ask a tough question. There were a lot of historical dynamics that went into this last election.
Or as the New World Order folks say: We got the President the powers that be wanted us to have—as always.
Either way, I sense the tide turning.
coffeesnob— Thank you for the visit and response. God Bless America and God Bless You!
Vladimir Uhri— I know you do, Brother. I do, too. No place on Earth can people make something out of themselves as in America. All they have to do is take what they've been given, have the discipline to develop that gift, and outwork the other guy.
Thanks for your wise words.
eovery— You're funny! It may have been some of the same folks but as Bob Seger said, "I'm a little bit older and a lot less bolder than I used to be. Yes, I used to shake 'em down but now I've gone and found my dignity."
drpastorcarlotta— Oh, thank you doctor. I am so pleased that you liked it. I love you, too!
James, as always you did a spectacular job! If you covered all news worthy events. We WOULD get the truth! The general media has become so biased it seems. Sad for us who really WANT to know the TRUTH about what is happening, where it is happening, who is doing it and who is affected by it! You have proven you would be a fantastic journalist! Yep, those MOBS were really out of control, maybe our government aught to treat these protesters like Iran treats their protesters---Oh wait, I believe that is not far off in the horizon! Shame on the United States Citizens for using their First Amendments Rights of Free Speech!
Kebennett1— Thank you for your encouragement. Maybe I should become a journalist? My book is sort of an eyewitness account of 1960-2010 (by the time it's done). So, that will be sorta like journalism.
I was keeping an eye out for the National Guard. :D
I appreciate your support. I hope you get well soon.
Thanks for this Hub, James.
Thank you for the most interesting and friendly report!
Where can I find a schedule of Tea Parties, say, for Wisconsin sites? I tried to search the web, didn't find much of certain information....
Hi James, very nice reporting and the pics were good too. I have no problem with peaceful demonstration regardless of the groups doing it. My only problem with the "tea parties" is that they were originally set up as "grass roots" demonstrations which they clearly are not. These tea parties are the brainchild of Newt Gringrich and Dick Armey and these tea parties are not grass roots demonstrations at all. Here is an excerpt from a blog (not a hub) I wrote after the April 15 tea parties:
This “grassroots” movement was the brainchild of former Republican Congressman, Dick Armey and his Freedom Works political group, of which he is founder. Mr. Armey is a lobbyist with DLA Piper, a mega Washington D.C. law firm employing over 4,000 lawyers in over 20 countries. One of DLA Piper’s clients is American International Group (AIG), who was recently in the news over the giant taxpayer bailout, which is supposedly one reason for the tea parties. Are we starting to get the drift here? Other clients include the Dubai Group, BP Oil, Lehman Brothers and more. Their lobbying fingers are in the pies of finance, oil, and securities, among others.
Along with Armey is board member and fellow Republican James Burnley, former Department of Transportation Secretary under George H.W. Bush. He was active in the campaigns of such notable Republicans as George W. Bush, Elizabeth Dole, Bob Dole and John McCain. Currently he is a partner in the law firm of Venable LLP. In 2007, Venable was ranked as one of the top 25 lobbying firms by Rollcall, a newspaper in Washington thats been around since 1955. He also sits on the board of directors of Infrasoft, Inc. Infrasoft Inc. is a company that specializes in software for outsourcing (our American jobs!). Infrasoft’s vision is “to be one of the leading and preferred IT service and solutions provider in the Philippines.”
James I loved that picture with the Dog wearing the sign .And I find It even better that It did not turn Into a free for all at the tea party .
Tina Irene— You are surely welcome. I thank you for visiting and leaving word.
ReuVera— http://www.freedomworks.org/state/wisconsin might be your best bet. If there is a Tea Party planned they will know. If not, you can arrange it! :)
You are surely welcome and I thank you for your interest.
Connie Smith— You are correct that the Tea Party April 15th was organized by Dick Armey. However, the woman who put together the two here in Orlando, Lisa Feroli, is simply a plain old regular person according to my research. Armey's group was invited to participate and accepted but they didn't originate the idea here. I think this is well documented unless you know something about Lisa Feroli that I don't. I talked to a lot of people there, and they were not a monolithic group. I asked, "How did you hear about this?" because I never saw an ad or got a piece of mail. Everybody said the same thing, "A friend of mine told me about it."
But I appreciate your knowledge and research. Thanks for sharing with us your understanding of the Tea Party Movement.
tony0724— That dog was the highlight for me! Though it was a rowdy crowd—LOL—I helped maintain the peace. :D
I don't understand what the Orlando "mob" is fighting for but according to (excellent) James' photos, many among the individuals present were against Health Care reform.
I wonder, do they really wish to go on with a money ruled medical system, with a pharmaceutical companies and insurers ruled medical system, a system where western science with its wonders as been put to the service of the money-havers?
What does abortion have to do with all of this? Is it not part of America's already existing medical system that they want to perpetuate? To use this argument against Health Care reform is illogical, a complete non sequitur.
I suggest the reading of the interesting hub that Pam Grundy just published, I think it might shed some light to clarify somehow this incredibly distorted matter: The Healing of America by T. R. Reid.
http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Healing-of-America-by-
Even if I didn't like this curious opposition to the Health Care reform, I'm grateful for the information you are providing us with, James. Great pictures too.
rosariomontenegro— The Omaba Health Care Bill will require doctors and nurses to participate in abortions even if they consider it murder. This is obviously against the Hippocratic Oath. Also, taxpayer money will fund abortion against the conscience of most taxpayers. Therefore, it is considered a travesty of justice.
I will read PRG's HUB.
In my opinion, which agrees with the protesters, we want less government involvement not more in Health Care, which I explained in my hub called "National Health Care."
James, I don't believe that. I'm sure nobody will force anybody to act against their own religious beliefs. Please point to me the portion of the document where it says that, and I will fight that part.
About the Health Care Reform, I don't see that government involvement can be worse than MONEY ruling the medical system. Obviously the golden veal prevails and this is not good. Not only the destitute, also the common folk with small earnings need a radical change, a reasonable way to get the basics of health care without bleeding their scarce resources in the pockets of the insurance companies.
And don't give me that this is communism because I'm too old and too anticommunist to swallow such tale. (I'm not talking to you right now but to some people in your pictures).
Again, thanks for the informative hub.
rosariomontenegro— You must look deep. The Pro-Death crowd has no hesitation to force their worldview on everybody. They have already canceled the charter of Catholic Charities to provide adoption services because they refuse to adopt to gays, as this is against their religion. They were probably the best adoption organization in the country. The so called "reproductive services" are in the Bill whether you believe it or not. That means no payments to any health facility that refuses to go along with the killing. This is fascism.
The Russians of 1917 were in denial just as you are when the Bolsheviks came to power. Let's see, so far our government has nationalized the majority of the automobile industry, to prop up labor unions (members paid $75 an hour). As Karl Marx said, "Unionism is the first step to Communism." The government has nationalized the financial sector; a huge piece of the insurance industry; and now they want the health industry (17% of our entire national economy). Respectfully, you do not understand the sinister forces at work here. Read up on Obama's idol, Saul Alinsky, and get back to me. Cash for Clunkers? That is billions of dollars transferred from me and you from our taxes to other people. What do you call it? It is confiscation of the wealth of some to give to others. That is Communism lite.
They already support Planned Parenthood, the most murderous outfit in the nation, with taxpayer dollars. And the government refuses to prosecute Planned Parenthood when they cover up rape and incest,as is well known.
The problem with Health care (read my Hub "National Health Care" and my Hub "The Progressive Movement") is that the government is already too involved. The government sets the price of 700 medical procedures now. Medicare and Medicaid admit to a 15% fraud rate ($100,000,000,000 per year taxpayer money lost every year) and say they can't do anything about it. Visa/Mastercard has a fraud rate of of .2%. That's the difference between bureaucracy and private enterprise. We had no health care crisis in this country before the two MEDI's were founded. They fouled up the system along with government regulations that make employer provided health care tax deductible but if you buy it yourself it is not—another sop to labor unions. The government makes it where you cannot buy health insurance outside the state where you live—as you can your car or home insurance.
This is nothing but a grab for power and a reduction of Liberty. (See my Hub "Liberty Lost in America")
The solution to Health Care is for the government to get out altogether. Problem solved. Do you recall a health care crisis in 1963? Before the two MEDIs were enacted? There wasn't one. Do you know the taxpayers were promised that the two MEDIs would cost $4B a year and it costs $600B? And your solution is to have them do MORE?! Incredible.
The problem with insurance is too much government involvement. No? Let me ask you: do you see any problem with home, auto, or life insurance? Nobody does. The difference? Less government involvement. The two MEDIs should be privatized. What person do YOU know that can't get medical care right now? Including illegal aliens. We need tort reform so doctors don't have to carry $80,000 a year of malpractice insurance.
But, I respect your right to your opinion. Thanks.
Mr. Watkins,
I wanted to thank you for coming out to the rally on Saturday evening and for your great coverage of the event on your blog! Really appreciate it! I also can attest to the fact that no one is behind what we are doing in Florida, not Freedomworks, not the GOP, not any lobbyists. I am friends with people from other organizations that are out for the same cause, but no one has funded any of the events we have put together other than concerned Americans who have donated $3.00 to $300.00. I know of numerous other organizers throughout this state who work the same exact way. We are people with jobs, children, mortgages, just like everyone else. We see the growing threat of the loss of freedom in our wonderful country and we can't sit idly by and let it happen. It is the other side that is well funded and given direction from organizations. We here in Florida are proud to say we are told what to do by no one!
Thanks again!
Ms. Feroli,
What a surprise! You are welcome. The loss of Freedom and Liberty is real and serious. I applaud you for organizing such a wonderful event. It truly was a joyful experience. I know that you speak the Truth.
I don't know how you heard about my little blog, but I am thankful you did and that you came by to make your post. God Bless You!
James
This is comical. If we click on Lisa's name, instead of going to her Hubpages profile (like everyone else's on this page), it leads us to her website that plainly talks about her involvement with the original "tea parties." Again, these were dreamed up by Newt Gringrich and Dick Armey, who is a lobbyist with DLA Piper, a mega lobbyist firm in D.C. (see my above comments) who knew that if they dreamed it up, there would be plenty of puppets out there willing to step up and take credit for not only the organization, but the original idea. Again, I don't have a problem with rallies for either party. I do, however, have a problem with underhanded deceitful tactics. This is just par for the course with the Republican party and one reason this swing voter started voting Democrat. Can America handle anymore deceit by the Republican party? We are already despised the world over thanks to the last lying administration.
Connie,
I have the original emails I sent to Bud Hedinger back in February saying I was inspired by 3 stimulus protests that had happened, wanting to get involved in something myself in Orlando. Honestly, never even thought of calling the protest a tea party until Bud's listeners starting to call it that themselves when I called into his show to talk to his audience about the possibility of having a protest. It is fine if you disagree with the movement, but don't attempt to take away from the hard work and passion that many Americans are putting behind it by saying that it is fake. I assure you, there is nothing more real than this movement and I believe the people we are standing against know this. Hence the name calling and ridicule.
Mr. Watkins,
I am sure you don't want to see your blog turn into a back and forth between people of opposing views so I will stop with my last post back to Connie and leave it alone.
I actually stumbled upon your blog, and I will keep checking back!
Thanks!
To Lisa: I apologize if you think I was ridiculing you personally. What I ridicule is the deceitfulness of Newt Gringrich and Dick Armey. Since you do not consider yourself a puppet, I guess you are properly outraged then that Newt and Dick have hijacked your protests and turned them into their own, using the herd mentality of the citizens who now call them “tea parties," and have taken every effort to disassociate yourself from them. No, I guess not, since they were featured at your litte "protest." As an update to my previous comment: Dick Armey has left DLA Piper, according to TheHill.com, “amid criticism over the role a conservative group he chairs has played in opposing healthcare reform.” That group, Freedomworks, (a guest at your very own protest), not surprisingly, is behind the hate and misinformation spewing from the mouths of citizens at town hall meetings across the nation. These citizens, encouraged by FreedomWorks, are disrupting the order so that our elected officials cannot even speak to America’s own citizens in a civilized fashion. I find that disgusting. Law and order is the backbone of a civilized society and to be involved with a group who is promoting the opposite should be against the principles of every good citizen of this country.
Why is it always the same old song? Republicans think they are the "real americans" because their opinion is the "american way"? Nonsense. And I am shocked that such nonsense is in this Hub. They were peaceful and did their little thing acting like giving a damn about people with no health care is unpatriotic and sing a song about how patriotic and wonderful we are although we don't take care of our own and don't want to. Oh if the government gets involved we will be socialist like those cubans who have good health care and those in the UK who thank God for their healthcare. We don't want that!!! I am still as confused as ever how you Republicans can allow Bush to practically destroy us as a country and put us in debt to the tune of billions and then go on about horrible Obama and the money that would be spent SAVING lives. Oh I see, you people just want us to kill not save...sorry, guess I just didn't get it for a minute there. War - good, taking care of others - bad. Real Americans so far don't take care of each other, don't give a damn about the elderly, just want to make loads of money and show off their toys and condemn and judge anyone not them or like them. That is what I and most of the world see Americans as. Wonder why...oh yes, because that is basically who THEY ARE. Europe doesn't understand us. Cuba wonders why they have nothing and can still take care of their own people and rich America can not (I wonder that myself). People are dying in this country because they have no healthcare, including children who's teeth are rotting out of their mouths because of no coverage. Why? Because that is the American way.
Still think of yourselves blindly and ignorantly as the best country in the world right? I guess it's easy if all you read about and listen to are people with your own opinions and never open your mind to hear and see the whole reality because oh my god, what if you are WRONG??? Wow, what a concept.
You know when I was a kid my stepmother always said, "You don't have to like everything but you have to at least try it first". Grow up America. Try it first, fix it, rearrange it, alter it somehow, work out the kinds, do whatever has to be done. But since this healthcare for all nonsense has worked beautifully for other countries, maybe they can teach us how to do it right. And if it doesn't work we can fix it or get rid of it. But having never had it to begin with, how the hell do you know weather we as a country, ALL OF US, will like it or not?
Connie Smith— Well, I can't claim to have any inside information about this. I didn't even know about it until Friday when a friend told me about it while we were having breakfast together.
I think the point of this Hub is really the Democrats on TV calling the People at the Tea Parties loons, mobs, dangerous, racists, etc etc etc and that is not what I saw there. What I saw there is accurately described on this page. I conversed with dozens of people and asked them how they came to be there and none of them mentioned Dick Armey to me. Pretty much everybody said they heard about it from a friend and that sounded "grassroots" to me.
Thank you for visiting and commenting. :)
Lisa,
Thank you for stopping back in to clarify the situation. It is a honor to have someone who is trying to really make a difference visit my humble hub. :)
James
Lisa,
Thanks. You may stop in any time. Good luck with your future political ventures. I might run against Grayson myself. I have been a member of the NRSC for six years, so I have had conversations with Newt, been to Mel Martinez home and on a hunting trip with him, and spent a lot of time in DC participating in roundtable discussions about policy, and am well acquainted with many former and present Senators.
James
Connie,
Newt Gingrich is a brilliant man. None of us can hold a candle to his intellect.
You make a pretty good case in your comments. But I have to say that socialism has been tried and found wanting. It was called the USSR (and the Nazis and Chairman Mao). This ideology leads to totalitarianism and a loss of liberty. This is not the American Way. From 1917 to 1989 our Capitalist system and the Socialist system were tried out side by side and the results were incredibly lopsided. Unless you buy into those "Potemkin Villages" the standard of living and of health care in the United States was vastly better than in the USSR. You might observe we don't build walls to keep people here. And you hardly see people emigrating to Cuba, Venezuela or Russia to live under that system of government. Anything you give the federal government control over represents a loss of liberty. That is my concern.
Moonchild60— There is such a thing as the "American Way." It is the individual taking responsibility for him or her self and not sucking on a government teet. It is Liberty and Freedom—both of which are reduced under a Daddy state. The American Way was set forth by our Founding Fathers—far superior men to you, me or any politician alive today. The key to their thinking is realism. You are an idealist and I don't mean that in a bad way. Why don't we just take everything in the world and divide it up equally? Why don't we all live in the same size house and earn the same amount of money? That is a great ideal to have. It is beautiful in its sentiment and in its simplicity. The problem is that it is a failure in the real world. The USSR tried it. The key to the United States is the opportunity to be all you can be but with the freedom to succeed comes the freedom to fail. Equal outcomes kills motivation, innovation, and lowers the standard of living for everybody. This is human nature, Moon.
In the real world, if a person has nothing to gain by educating themselves, learning a skill or trade, working harder than the next guy, investing their money well, living their life according to successful patterns, inventing something useful, innovating—most people simply won't. The people we call poor in the U.S. would not be considered poor in 75% of the world. They are RELATIVELY poor because of our incredible standard of living and that standard of living is the result of the Capitalist engine that used to drive our nation.
Moonchild— I must comment further to your scathing post. You think things are better in Cuba? Do you see a single person emigrating to Cuba? Do you see people braving shark-infested waters on home-made rafts to go there from here? I'll tell what the health care system did do in Cuba. When the AIDS epidemic started, they tested every person on the island and all of them with HIV were quarantined for the rest of their lives in a colony—like a leper colony. In a free society like America, "Gay" men and their supporters wouldn't allow that. How many new cases of HIV do you suppose Cuba had after that? ZERO. That should be obvious. Here, the epidemic raged on eventually infecting women and children, which the gay community was proud of: "See! It's not a gay disease. Look! Women and children have it now, too!" Pride over the deaths of millions of innocent people because it made them feel better.
War is horror. But some war is just. I think we freed 14 million Afghan women from virtual slavery. I would think a staunch feminist such as yourself would think that a Just War—not mention the Taliban backed Osama while he killed 3,000 New Yorkers in a single morning. I would say war is bad but killing babies by the millions is worse.
Real Americans don't care for other people? That is an asinine statement. American private citizens give more of their personal money and personal time to charities than the rest of the world combined. Obviously, an uncaring populace. Who do you think shows up around the world when there is famine or an earthquake or tsunami. Americans taxpayers pay out TRILLIONS of dollars every year to our poor citizens.
What single individual do YOU know personally who has died because they didn't have health insurance?
Why not just "try" socialized medicine? Tell me what governmental programs have been "tried" in your lifetime that we then disbanded. When the twin MEDIs have an admitted $100B in fraud right now every year—why on Earth would you want them to take over the entire health care system?
It is rather presumptuous to state that I only read writers that agree with me—as if you have a list of books I have read? I subscribed to the New York Times for years until not long ago. I subscribe to the New Yorker still and have for years. I watch CNN sometimes. I have read plenty of left wing books and studied most all political systems that ever existed. I have read and listened to Liberal political speeches all the way back to the 1960s. You can't name a prominent liberal I have not heard make a speech. You can get off that horse. It won't ride.
You, on the other hand, based on your comments on this page, only know your party line about what Conservatives believe. Your leaders from Lenin to Stalin to Hitler to HG Wells to Margaret Sanger to Planned Parenthood to the ACLU to Peter Singer to Saul Alinsky to Obama all hold a political tenet that lying to the public is a routine part of the plan to achieve their political aims. All but Obama have admitted as such. Google them and see for yourself. Conservatives are hated by people of this ilk because they tell the truth. Maybe my Hub "The Progressive Movement" can help you see the people you follow are liars by nature.
Sorry to interrupt such dialogue but I wanted to say that I definitely agree with tort reform. Tort justice is a dead weight that we all are paying in our health insurance. I wonder why people do not realize this and demand tort reform.
But James, I definitely do not agree with your following statement:
"The key to the United States is the opportunity to be all you can be but with the freedom to succeed comes the freedom to fail. Equal outcomes kills motivation, innovation, and lowers the standard of living for everybody."
This means James that if you fail then you go under a bridge and you don't have the right to health care ... Fine, let's go back to the dark ages before the first social reforms took place. Let's abandon the poor, the ones who failed.
Is really this what you wish?
If the poor guy who failed in his economic life gets health care or food or shelter ... is this going to lower the standard of living for everybody? How come? How about the standard of moral living, how about that?
James, I'm sure I am misunderstanding something here. Please explain this better to me.
rosariomontenegro— You're not interrupting. You are welcome at any time. Republicans submitted tort reform language for HR 3200 but Democrats said absolutely not. That was all over the news last week.
I have contributed to and volunteered for about 30 charities in the past ten years. I believe in private charity not government charity. We have a Christian duty to care for our neighbor but I do not believe that should be the job of a government for many reasons. Short version: Private charities do a better job than a bureaucracy. They deal with people, face to face, not numbers on application. They deal with root causes of poverty not just handouts. They provide services much cheaper than a bureaucracy. When a government is in charge of charity then who gets charity becomes political and bureaucracies have a vested interest in perpetuating them selves by never solving the real problem. If the problem is solved, they don't have a job. Obama has said he wants to take away the tax deduction for charitable giving. Why do you think that is? It is because those of his persuasion would like to see private charity end so the government can include indoctrination with the food and housing. His people view charity as a competitor. If I give my neighbor $100 worth of groceries that is what he gets, face to face. If I send it to Washington the bureaucracy eats up much of my $100 before it ever gets to a faceless recipient. By making all charity governmental they create a voter base for themselves. As George Bernard Shaw said, "If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul." I believe a citizen such as myself should be able to direct his charitable giving to causes I believe in—it is my money—not to causes politicians believe in.
Thank you for your comments and earlier compliments. And I wish to apologize to you as I felt later my tone to you on my last comment to you this morning was unduly harsh.
OKaaaayyy, let me start by saying that believing in one aspect of a countries government does not necessarily mean I believe in ALL aspects of that countries government. I also stated that the UK and other countries in Europe also have free healthcare. Not just Cuba. They seem to work there and the people seem to be happy with it. Canadians have free healthcare as well and are happy with it.
I am well aware that Americans give more to charities than any other country James. But we do not however, take care of each other. You mention about people achieving success in their own right on their own steam. Okay, makes sense. But what about those who try and still fail, or those who simply are not as good at it as others? Not everyone can succeed in life, in fact since only 20% of this country has any real money, so I would say most don't.
Just about everyone I know has healthcare James. I don't know anyone who doesn't actually, so no, no one I know has died without healthcare because I don't know anyone without Healthcare. Even the poor struggling hispanics I know have healthcare as they get "Free" healthcare from the local hospital because although they are billed, they never can pay. No one can go after them because they have no clue who they really are as most of them give fake names, those who give real names, give fake addresses. No one can find them because there are no numbers to trace to anyplace. So the people who DO get free healthcare in this country are those who are not even citizens of this country. But the citizens of this country either pay the thousands of dollars that they rack up in health costs or pay a fortune in healthcare insurance. Decisions, decisions.
I do not believe that everyone should have the same size house, same everything, etc...I believe that those who can achieve and are fortunate enough to have family money to do it, or the brains to do it or are lucky enough to do it, can give a little help to those who are not so fortunate that is all. My brother, a Republican, bitched about Obamas raising taxes for those who make $250k and more. Carried on about this little fact. I ignored him as long as I could and then said "I don't understand what your complaining about, My husband and I pay that in taxes alone every year. You don't even MAKE anywhere near that, so why do you even care? We are the ones who will pay more and we don't mind as long as it does go to help others less fortunate in this country". He did not like that. But it shut him up.
Politicians lie James, constantly. I know this. Bush lied endlessly about this war. I promise you he didn't give a damn about the women he was freeing at the time. Of course I am happy about that. But why was there no exit plan? Why is it still going on? Why didn't he make any real effort to get his family friend captured instead? The war has cost this country a fortune. All I hear is that if America leaves it will start a civil war. Okay. We had a civil war, we survived as a country and moved on without any involvement from any other countries did we not?
I did not state that you personally only read certain material James. I am certain that you are a well read individual.
Can you please explain the killing babies by the millions comment? I did not understand where or when that happens.
I have gay friends and don't recall any of them being thrilled or bragging about women and children getting HIV ever, at any time. I think that the religious right just jumped all over the gay community a little too quickly when the disease first came out assuming it was a gay disease and God's way of getting rid of them. It may have made some gay people a little defensive, but I doubt they were thrilled about women and children dying.
I am sure that in many countries people who live below poverty level in this country don't look so bad off, but they are and in this country with all it's money it is that much more polarized.
Can you explain to me what the issue is with Healthcare for all exactly? How would it destroy our country? What horrible fate would befall us? I need to understand this because whenever I see the negative responses from Republicans I am not getting any clear answers, just spin and assumptions, no clear explanations. Perhaps you can help me in this area. Contrary to what you said, I do not just care about my views and my parties views, I want to know all the facts. I want my decisions to always be based on knowledge.
Moonchild60— I have been hearing horror stories out of the UK and Canada for years about their socialized medicine.
Many of the poor is this country I have seen wearing $300 Nikes holding Blackberries in their hands. They have refrigeration, a subsidized place to live, Cable TV, DVD players, a car, Medicaid, food stamps, free education, free libraries, electricity, and lots of them weigh 300 pounds.
They have what would have been luxuries in this country 50 years ago. And most of them have no interest in working. If one was to travel to Haiti, Bolivia, Congo, and countless other places and lament to those people about our "poor" they wouldn't get the joke.
One problem is that if the message of our society is that you can have five kids by five daddies, none of whom you are married to, drop out of school in the 9th grade, never make any effort to learn anything that makes you useful to the world in any way—that's OK. The people who work will have their earnings confiscated and given to you. If that is the message that has been sent out since the Great Society of the 1960s the result is going to be what the result is. Millions of people are going to take you up on it because being lazy and undisciplined is easy only if you can live for 70 years that way on the backs of others. And those five kids are more than likely going to turn out the same. This may look like a gift but it in fact robs people of basic human dignity of having the pride that comes from accomplishing something while on the Earth. For instance, if in order to eat you HAD to do something productive, most folks would. Self-preservative comes natural to people. If you had to use your library or go to vocational school or hunt or fish or grow a garden in order to have food, 99% of the people would do it. People have been doing what they have to do for self preservation for thousands of years. But if you don't have to anything but take up oxygen, the sad fact is many people will take that route and having millions of unproductive people hurts society because a healthy society depends on all able-bodied people pitching in. If we were all on a ship that was sinking, should the poor just be able to sit in their cabins eating Cheetos while everybody else has to grab a pail and bail? Everybody has to grab a pail and do something.
Moonchild60— Health care. The problem with health care is the dominant role played in it by the Government already. 46% of all health care expenditures are paid by the government. This means the government has the power to determine what medical care can be had and how much providers will be paid for it. Medicare and Medicaid should be privatized. A private company could step in and save $90,000,000,000 a year by eliminating fraud. Also the government has placed 2,000 mandates on the insurance industry as to what coverages they must provide. Eliminating these would cut our national insurance bill 35%.
Health insurance should be decoupled from employment. It should be your policy no matter where you work and what state you live in. We should buy it from national pool of companies competing for our business, just like we buy car, home or life insurance—from State Farm, or AllState, or Aetna, or GEICO. And like those insurances, it should not be for everything under the sun. For instance, your car insurance doesn't pay to change the oil—you do. Your car insurance is for accidents, things that would ruin most people because of the cost. That is what insurance is for—to share risk among a large group of people, most of whom won't need it.
46 million can't get health insurance today. FALSE. 10 million of those are not citizens of the United States. The other 36 million is a statistic that is the answer to the question:"Were you uninsured at any time during the past year." Many people are between coverages for a few months, a problem solved by my ideas above. 14 million of the uninsured are eligible for one of the two MEDIs but never bothered to enroll. 18 million of the uninsured make $50,000 a year or more—they choose to spend their money on other things, usually because they are young and healthy. 9 million uninsured make over $75,000 per year. The Obamacare will FORCE these people to buy health insurance against their will—an assault on individual liberty.
There are really eight million chronically uninsured people and they still have access to health care.
So if I am correct, you are saying that Government Healthcare will be forced upon those who are uninsured? I don't understand that. Wouldn't they have to enroll in the healthcare program to get it? Why would they be forced? Also, wouldn't it be alright if there were a choice? I agree that Health Insurance companies should compete for our business like all other Insurance companies do. I don't understand why they do not do that now. But would it be such a bad thing if the government also had an insurance option one could choose as well? Perhaps one more affordable? Even my insurance company decides what tests they will and will not pay for, just as you say government would. They can and do reject any thing they deem "unnecessary".
How would the privatization of the MEDI's save so much money and eliminate fraud?
Sorry to ask so many questions.
Hey James, Another brilliant piece of work! You constantly raise the bar higher, I know it's up there I just can't see it. Will you adopt me? Later!
Moonchild60— Under HR3200 everybody must buy insurance or pay anyway.
http://www.forhealthfreedom.org/Publications/Priva
Or from a Liberal web site before the bill was published
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/08/ap-house-
I don't mind the questions at all. There has been 15% fraud ($100B a year) in both MEDIs for years by their own reckoning. They claim they can't do anything about it. What stake does a bureaucrat have in it? It's not his money. A private company would tackle fraud first because they could never be profitable with 15 theft in any enterprise. Here is a report from the only doctor in the U.S. Senate:
sneakorocksolid— LOL! This thread needed a good laugh. Thanks for bringing it. You are always an encouragement to me. I appreciate you. :D
Another great hub - Loved the pictures, made me feel like I was there. I'll keep my eye out for any Keys Tea Parties and report back to you and Be safe, Orlando is out of control :)
Bail Up !— Thank you much for taking the time to view my article and leave your fine and witty comments. I do appreciate it.
Fantastic hub here-great work! Loved all the pix!
Would you believe I read online tonight that Obama "was unaware" of the tea parties! Boy!
frogyfish— He was kidding! He was railing about them a few weeks ago.
Thank you so much for the visit and the compliments! :D
All those gun toting, swastika carrying crazy people, I'm just glad you survived. Nice Hub. :)
jiberish— As you can see by the photos, this crowd made even a big man as myself very nervous. :)
Thanks for the visit and witty remarks.
A Texan says:
4 months ago
Crazy group of radicals if you ask me! I didn't see any fires or anything, whats up with a peaceful rally? Dang adults!