The Equal Rights War Between Churches and Gays
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The churches and the gay community are at odds with each other over their rights. Most people believe it is over sin and the bible, but there are problems that lay deeper than that. What is meant by equal rights for gays, to the religious community?
The main item is where does the equal right boundary lay. Would the rights for gays override the rights of the religious institutes?
Let 's dig deeper into this with the following concerns:
- Will a church be able to restrict the gays within their church? If the church does not agree with gay marriage, by law wiil it have to marry the couple, or else stand to lose it's tax exemption status?
- Would churches that do not allow gays to be active participants in the church, based on their believes, be obligated have to let the gays participate?
- Would churches such as the LDS faith have to allow the gay couple to be married in their temples, where only devoted members marry?
- Would the Boy Scouts, which is strongly supported by churches, be mandated to allow gays in?
The fight actually extends to the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States for the separation of church and state. Would giving the gays the rights they demand override the rights of the churches? In the process, placing state demands into the religious realm and remove the separation of church and state?
The churches are stepping up the effort to protect themselves. This is what I think was the purpose of Proposition 8 in California, and similar proposals in other states.
Somewhere along the way, if there will ever be gay rights, the churches and the gay's rights have to be met and not step on each others rights. The gay's rights will need to meet the churches' rights of their believes and practices within the church and not be considered bigost by everyone else. While at the same time the rights need to meet the needs of the gay community.
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I was waiting for you goldentoad.
Take care man,
Hope you're feeling better!
I'm doing alright, I'm getting a little flare up tonight on the cough, but I keep kung fu fightin'.
Like I commented on one of you hubs, Sip brandy, that will clean out you chest. Heck with the beer. Brandy man, your feel the warmth in your chest, and quit kung fu fightin', it'll makes you croak, i mean, cough more.
But I love my beer :(
I'll stop by the liquor store on the way home and get a shooter. Which brand?
Some Conyac, or however it is spelled is best. I don't drink much so I don't know brands.
Straight, or mix it with some water, lemon, and honey, warm up, and you'll have a nice hot tottie. Drink it before bedtime, and you'll sleep like a baby. Twice as good as Nyquill.
I see the 4 questions you've raised, and I'l like to try and answer them:
- No
- No
- No
- No
Questions? ;-)
I am a Straight, Religious person but I embrace all, as long they are good I will embrace them. We have to find a common ground, the world is changing, even Jesus was merciful with everyone, so why not we try the same.
You forgot a picture of the LDS temple in San Diego! (one of my favorites)
zortnac,
The no's is why they will always be at great odds, just most peolpe do not know it. I hope this helps educate them on the issues,
Also, there are more than 120 some temples, All of which are very beautiful. Yes, the San Diego temple is very beuatiful. Thanks for the link.
There must come a time when humans learn to live and let live.
poorOpine I missed you. Have been hyponating from the cold weather? Been eating any roatedpinebark lately. If not, you may want to read a hub or two. The kid does good writing.
Do you have gay rights amongst the porcupines? That must be a stickler,..pardon the pun.
Why would they always be at great odds? The 3 questions related to churches would be absolutely blatant violations of the first ammendment. We have not one single precedent yet in our centuries of existence as a nation of a church being told how to hold their ceremonies, or who to make them available for.
You got me thinking, are we on the same wave length. Unless one side does give in, or they meet and find common ground where both sides rights can be preserved, they will always be at odds? No?
I understend that we have never had any dictated to us about what we can do. However in Massachusetts, there are stories of the Catholic adoption centers closing down, because the law says they cannot discriminate against same couples on adoptions. Rather than have to meet this criteria, they closed down. They have lost their right, and are being dictated what they have to do, if this is true. I am also wondering it will hold up, when a same-sex couple walk into the church and demand to be married.
The other states, Vermnt, Connecticut and New Jersey allow civil unions, where a license is submitted to the same-sex couple so that they can share rights as married couple but are not called marriages.
Keep on Hubbing!
I agree with poorQpine- I pray for the day when people will just mind their own business (church & government) when it comes to other people's sexuality and prefrences. I don't want to know who everybody is having sex with or why. I don't care who marries who. Some people marry for money other's marry for other forms of security, lust, or statis. It's really nobody's business. All of those things should be outlawed too then right? It's a double standard. I wait for the day that we can tell other people "We think the person you want to marry looks like a foot so you can't marry them." LOL! It will go on forever because it has. Remember not to long ago blacks couldn't marry whites. Great hub:)
Thanks for hubbing over Christina.
This would be great, it would skip over all the equal rights issues and get to this point poorQpine talks about- It would be wonderful.
I am just letting people know that, even though we hear the news about all the christian-gay bassing, the underlaying problem that no one understands the legal implications. With this understanding, common ground hopefully can be found and we can be rid of this issue, and may be able to reach the point faster that poorQPine references.
Keep on Hubbing!
I agree!
Great Thanks for stopping by Christine.
Keep on Hubbing!
I certainly don't think that churches should be forced into changing their sacraments.
But I do absolutely believe that homosexuals should have equal rights under the law.
We have Civil Partnerships (marriage between the same gender) in the UK, and I'm all in favour. En-gay-gement, as one of my mates calls it (-:
Thanks for hubbing over.
Yeah, no matter what your religious belief is, there are legal matters that have to be taken care of, because it is not going away. I am pointing out that there are not just believes being the issue, but actual rights that churches are standing up for, and fighting for. They are not just bashing gays on their practices, but some how our great media is not even starting to cover these issues. They would rather get videos of a gay taking a cross away from an old lady and hitting her back with it.
Keep on Hubbing!
Rights.
Why do we begin here?
Why not start with responsibilities?
Are we as humans not all equal?
One person's right can not override someone else's right. We must learn to live together in love and acceptance. Notice I did not say tolerance. (I have issues with that.) Everyone is a sinner by default. Some sins are worse than others but any sin is bad enough to keep you out of heaven without the forgiveness Jesus offers to everyone who will believe in Him. It is easy to pick on some sinners because their sin is much more open and obvious. But I suspect that if each of us wore a sign on our shirts that listed our sins for everyone to see we would be much less likely to point out other peoples sins. No one outside a church should be able to dictate to that church what to believe, say, or do. If you don't agree with a church, don't join. And please - don't mess with the boy scouts! They have a right to do what they want just like any other private group.
So, who has the right to do what? Everyone is equal. Don't intentionally step on someone's toes to get your way. Give people the freedom to be wrong and stupid. They may return the favor someday. That's my two cents worth.
He who is without sin cast the first stone.
Thanks for hubbing by Steve. I just letting people know that it is not about sin and bashing each other as the media prosent, but the church standing up for their rights. They are trying not to lose them while in the process of when the gays trying to establish their rights. To let the gays know, that if they do not over step onto the churches rights, they will have a better chance of getting their needs taken care of. The churches will be happier, too.
Keep on Hubbing.
The reason that this Issue will always be a minefield Is because , the gay community sees It as a rights Issue and religious people see this as a moral Issue so It will always be looked at In different perspectives . I am not a religious person but I do believe that marriage Is a SACRAMENT between one man and one woman .
Where I get pissed off Is that because I believe that I somehow get labeled , because those with oppisite views have to try to play the victim card. I am totally OK with civil unions . I totally salute that young lady on the Miss USA contest . She has been all class and that Perez Hilton has been exposed for the nasty little worm he Is !
Thanks for hubbing by, tony0724.
TOO BAD CIVIL UNIONS that homophob hetroprivilidged KKK ppl get called marriage isnt the same as far as equal privilidges and rights as homophob hetro privilidged KKK automatic privlidged dont even have to think twice privilidged oppressors get. After who cares bout these EUROPEAN NoN Natives with their European Religions programming to oppress THE FIRST NATIONS Two Spirited REAL NATIVE AMERICAN gays and lesbians that the Religious programmed Europeans took the land from and genocide
Janet, I am not sure where you are going here. I live in the present, not the past. So if the europeans did all this, why do we want to continue on what they are trying to do today?
Keep on hubbing!
goldentoad says:
11 months ago
They definitely need to find a common ground. Where to begin is a tough one.