Polygamy Should Not Be Legalized in the United States
82
Recently polygamy has been in the news again with the raid of the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saint compound in Texas. This church is NOT affliated with the Mormon church, but claims to practice the true tenet of the Mormon faith that was abandoned by the Latter Day Saints in 1890, i.e. polygamy. Polygamy has been practiced in the United States in various forms since the beginning of the colonies. Polygamy is legal in many Islamic countries today, so many people do not understand what the issue is. Up until 1890 polygamy was practiced by all Mormons, but the Latter Day Saints gave up the practice with the beginning of of statehood in 1890. Nevertheless, the six presidents of the Mormon church after Brigham Young declared polygamy unlawful, but continued to practice this lifestyle behind closed doors. Today mainstream Mormons do NOT practice polygamy, but there is an off shoot group called the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints, which practices polygamy and closes itself off from the outside world. The FLDS believes that practicing "The Principle" of plural marriage will allow them to enter the Celestial Kingdom with a higher status than those who do not prescribe to this lifestyle. This is a real part of the faith of the FLDS and not a joke. Actually it is a horrific fact of life for most young women who are born into this faith.
So how are polygamist families able to get around the law? The story of Carolyn Jessop is the example of an educated and intelligent woman who was forced into a polygamist marriage when she was only eighteen. If you have not read the book Escape, I suggest you do so because it is very thought provoking, maddening, sad, enlightening, and triumphant all at the same time. I wrote another hub about a woman named Irene who lived in a polygamous marriage for thirty years in Mexico, but her case was more about self choice rather than being forced into polygamy. Irene's story was also sad because she lived in dire poverty in Mexico and she had fourteen children. Irene's life was hard, but her primary complaint was that her husband was never around and she felt they never could never be intimate. She also hated living in poverty, but I feel she was afraid to leave the religion her father had brought her up in as a child. Irene chose to marry Verlan against her mother's and her boyfriend's wishes. However, Irene was only sixteen and I believe she had been so brainwashed by the FLDS to believe that if she did not marry Verlan that she would be cut off from the Celestial Kingdom forever.
|
Stolen Innocence: My Story of Growing Up in a Polygamous Sect, Becoming a Teenage Bride, and Breaking Free of Warren Jeffs
Price: $14.48
List Price: $25.95 |
|
Escape
Price: $10.00
List Price: $24.95 |
|
When Men Become Gods: Mormon Polygamist Warren Jeffs, His Cult of Fear, and the Women Who Fought Back
Price: $13.96
List Price: $24.95 |
|
Inside the World of Warren Jeffs: The Power of Polygamy
Price: $14.41
List Price: $16.95 |
The case of Carolyn is quite different because she had no choice in the matter. Although Carolyn grew up on a polygamist compound in Colorado City, Utah, she had been exposed to the outside world during the time her family lived in Salt Lake City. Also, her father's second wife was educated as a nurse, which showed Carolyn that a woman could get and education and have a career. So when Carolyn was eighteen she decided she wanted to go to school to become a pediatrician, but her father said they had to get approval from their leader to see if she would be allowed to go. Finally they decided she should go to college to become a teacher on the compound, but she would also have to marry Merril Jessop. Carolyn's dad and Merril had once had a business deal that went bad, so she was offered up as a peace offering so the two men could once again resume business ties. FLDS men often own extensive businesses and travel widely to maintain these, which is how many of them are able to afford to house and feed so many wives and children.
Carolyn's life was a nightmare that went from bad to worst from the day she entered Merril's home. Her husband's daughters were her former classmates, but they refused to treat her with respect that should have been accorded a "mother". Carolyn went to college with one of Merril's daughters so that they could spy on her and constantly report on her comings and goings. Merril's daughters would commandeer Carolyn's own car and refuse to pick her up from classes, so she had to start getting rides to school with friends. Of course the daughter tattled to Merril and made it sound like Carolyn was a disobedient wife because she was not falling for his daughter's pranks. After that Carolyn had to get a ride from her friends and have them drop her off a couple of blocks from home, which made Merril and his family believe she was walking back and forth between college. Despite all of the attempts to thwart Carolyn's education, she graduated with honors and became a teacher on the compound.
Clip From the Film Bank on Polygamy
Even though most FLDS men usually pick a new and younger wife as their favorite, Barbara remained Merril's constant companion and always went with him on business trips. Carolyn subsided on tomato sandwiches during one of her pregnancies as Merril and his favored wife ate out every evening. On top of that Merril never gave Carolyn any money and expected her to hand over her paycheck, so she had to start selling makeup on the side just to make money for her children to have food to eat. Merril did not care if his own children nearly starved or rarely saw him, they were his property and he treated them as such. Also, Merril treated each of his soon to be eight wives like slaves that could run his businesses.
Recently in the comments section of this hub someone suggested I should visit a site where someone makes a good argument for polygamy. However, after reading this person's statement I realized that their valid points for polygamy were more idealism than sound fact. In the books Escape and Shattered Dreams both Irene and Carolyn talk about how people discuss the pluses of polygamy, such as more wage earners and homemakers in an extended family and how everything would become a well oiled machine.
The reality is that there are usually very few financial resources to go around and children and wives often do not have enough to eat. Irene was forced to be the nurturing housewife of 27 children as the other wives went off to work away from Mexico. She had to get multiple kids ready for school and watch others throughout the day. The poverty described in her memoir is heartwrenching because you realize time and time again Irene had very little and was given less because she was "the most helpful wife." Irene even mentioned in her book that the wives who did not complain ended up getting less of the material resources, an women had to go to their husbands and actually beg for basic necessities. Irene grew vegetables to provide for the most basic needs of her children and their were many mouths to feed. She often remained behind in Mexico taking care of her other sister-wives children when the other wives got to live in the city and work at full-time jobs.
In communism there was the ideal it would work because everyone would "evenly divide the labor." However, communal societies do not work this way and one person always ends up taking on a greater share of the responsibilities. In her book Escape Carolyn recounts how many times she had to take care of all the children and how she and the other wives only had tomato sandwiches to eat. This was not a finely oiled machine where everyone had a job and everything was shared fairly, some people were getting more than others in the equation. Some women were not the favorites and suffered, as the favored wives were getting leisure time and basic necessities the others did not have. There is rarely fair division of labor in polygamous families such as the ones Irene and Carolyn lived in, someone always has to take on the lion's share of the work.
Carolyn was sent to run Merril's hotel in Caliente, Nevada. During her stays at this hotel she had to contend with a criminal that would hang around the property and wormed his way into having Merril give him a job as a grounds keeper. Jason was a former member of the mafia who had served a twenty year prison term for killing and man and burying him in the desert, but he was the hotel security guard that would protect Carolyn and warn her to get out of this toxic marriage. Carolyn noted in her book that she was touched that a man like Jason who lived with snakes in his trailer home cared more about her than her own husband. When Carolyn tried to tell her husband that the grounds keeper was dangerous, he curtly reminded she needed to stop complaining and to obey him. Merril even told his family and friends he sent Carolyn out to manage the hotel in Calient because he was hoping to "get rid of her". Once Carolyn realized her life was in grave danger she began plotting her escape.
Carolyn successfully escaped with all eight of her children in 2003, but her oldest daughter Betty kicked the back of her mom's seat the entire way to safety and freedom. Betty was Merril's favorite daughter and had been highly brainwashed to believe that they were "property" of the prophet Warren Jeffs. Carolyn had escaped because the cult was becoming more and more extreme once Jeff's became the leader of the cult. She had witnessed him marrying underage girls and was a key witness in bringing Jeff's to justice. Carolyn witnessed many horrible things during her life among the FLDS and one of the few reasons she was successful at escaping and remaining on the outside was because she had a college education. Many women only have a compound education that is limited to the teaching of the cult tenets and beliefs.
Escape is a thought provoking book to read because it makes a sound argument as to why polygamy should never be legalized in the United States. Shows such a Big Love portray polygamists families that are happy and functional, but most polygamist families are not this happy go lucky. There are a few, but most go into hiding and live a very cloistered and secretive lifestyle. Let me give you an example of what I read about in the discussion group about the show Big Love. I had joined this group two years ago because I had just thought it was a message board for discussing the show and the peculiarities of polygamy. I was not that active in the group, but a couple of months ago I had read the book Shattered Dreams and I shared it with the group. I posted how it was very good and informative book written by a woman who had lived an impoverished polygamous lifestyle for thirty years in Mexico. Right away someone posted that this book was discriminatory against polygamy and that non-polygamous families had problems too.
After reading this discussion board I realized some of the people were pro-polygamous posters and they did not want anyone to talk about the downsides of polygamy. One person tried to say we should be able to discuss both points of view here, but the pro-polygamous posters told this person that they were wrong for thinking polygamy was nothing but wonderful. I was truly shocked to hear such discussions happen in 2008, but even today polygamists have access to the Internet, just like the sixteen year old girl who used a cell phone to alert the police about the polygamist compound in Texas. One of the main arguments in that discussion group was about how people over eighteen should be allowed to practice any lifestyle they choose, but what people fail to realize is that at eighteen many women were still forced in to polygamy, just look at what happened to Carolyn Jessop.
In the book Escape showed the the trend was becoming more and more for men to marry underage women. Not all polygamist families do this, but the children in this culture have not choice as to whether they can leave and start a life outside of the religion. Carolyn's sister tried when she was a teenager, but she was hunted down and forced to marry a man of their choice. Young men are thrown off the compound because they kiss girls or act like normal teenage boys, but Jessop points out they really are kicked out because the older men want to keep the pool of younger women for themselves. Anyone who thinks that polygamy is just another lifestyle choice should read Irene Spencer's book Shattered Dreams and Carolyn Jessop's book Escape. Both of these books are very good and highly recommended, and you can check them out at the local library if you do not want to pay for them. Polygamy is a repressive culture that forces women to compete for their husband's attention and financial support. Women have few rights in this lifestyle, so it is not the simple happy go lucky family units (three wives) that we see on the show Big Love. There may be polygamist families similar to Bill Hendrickson's, but they are few and far between among the estimated 40,000 people who practice this lifestyle in the United States.
Share it! — Rate it: up down [flag this hub]
Comments
I don't agree with polygamy on a personal note (and especially not the groups marrying off underaged girls). But the show Big Love sure does make it look okay! I wonder if there are two types in this group - the ones like the Warren Jeffs (or is it Jeff Warren) group and then the Bill Paxton Big Love suburban ones. Hmmm...
This whole polygamist story has really filled my heart with joy and faith in humanity. So nice to hear that American women can still be treated as much like chattel as our Afghani sisters.
It's a sick world. :(
I am strongly opposed to polygamy myself, but think it would be interesting to open it up to legalization on a state by state basis. If a couple states had the option to do it legally, it might bring it a bit more into the open, where cases of abuse like these and that of the 16 year old whose call set off the recent raids can be more quickly and effectively responded to. But then again, it might not. Like I said, it's a sick world. ;(
Thanks for all the insightful comments Eileen, Tiffany, and Kerryg. I wrote this hub originally because I had read Escape and Shattered Dreams, which showed the case of two women who suffered in polygamous marriages. I was surprised there was a discussion group out there that thought these ladies were lying, but they are not the only ones that talk about the abuses of polygamy. Eileen, you make a good point about how Big Love makes polygamy seem okay because I thought the same thing about some families. There probably are a few families out there who are all consenting adults like on the show Big Love, but many of the cases are not this way. I still think they should arrange for the mothers to be with their children because they did not hurt the children, it would have been the men who were controlling and abusing everyone.
Good hub! The way our government allows polygamy to persist despite the fact that it's illegal really pisses me off, especially considering the lengths they go to to arrest medical marijuana users, prostitutes, etc. etc. using costly, time-consuming sting operations and set-ups. It is illegal JUST LIKE those things and is a sexist, control-driven practice that is being normalized by shows like Big Love and mainstream media coverage, which do little to cover both sides and often only shows the women who appear happy, not those who would rather kill themselves than be part of the polygamist lifestyle.
I think everyone has the right to choose their lifestyle, however I don't believe in disrespect at any level, whether man, woman or child. The thought of men thinking they can treat people like that is beyond me. I have one life to live and there is no way I am giving that control to anybody but me. My time is short and will be spent with those who love me, respect me, and above all treat me and my children with dignity.
Thank you for making it very clear in your article that there is no relationship of this fundamentalist group with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints; although to them of course, there is.
The media in general are doing a lousy job once again of making this distinction. I know they are well aware, but it makes for better sensationalism when one attaches these ongoing stories of polygamy and its modern day abuses with the offfical LDS Church.
I commend you for journalism integrity from the very start.
tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
Very thought provoking hub, Sweetie Pie. The fact is that in our country polygamy is illegal. and for that reason whoever practices it in the USA must do so in secret which really attracts control freak cultists like that crowd in Texas. I too have heard the horror stories of abuse by the women and lost boys who have escaped these polygamous cults. But I wonder if they are typical of polygamy in other parts of the world where it is more the cultural norm. I suppose mine is a minority opinion, but I think there are many ways to create family and no one right or wrong way. Just a thought......maybe I should read the book you mention:-)
While I'm not particularly familiar with the Mormon community (or in this case, FLDS), I'm in some of the less-maintream areas of the younger generation. There, social attitudes are tolerant and emotionally-positive, and polyamory is accepted with a sort of live-and-let-live attitude. One of the interesting things that happens with the younger generation is that heterosexuality, at least in my niche social communities, is not the norm, and it isn't expected to be. So the ideas about dominant-male, submissive-female that usually occurs in matrimonial roles essentially dissolves, and people are people... of any gender. I think a lot of that is healthy, in that it moves past societal gender expectations and allows people to discover and identify themselves according to what matter to them, what interests them, and the kind of person they are. If nothing else, it calls upon young people to carefully evaluate who they are, rather than simply accepting a societal template. It isn't all positive by any means - we have some new emerging templates that are just as bad - but it encourages personal development and is a very positive, supporting scene most of the time.
I think one of the interesting things when it comes to discussions on legalizing polygamy, polyamory, and non-heterosexual marriages is that people often focus on "should this be legal or illegal", rather than examining whether a government should have the authority to form a determination on what the Creator has joined together. Governments have become adept at co-opting control and authority where they have none, and I think it's evident in this kind of issue. When it comes to love, governments have no place to make determinations. The private lives of the citizens it purports to serve are no place for its encroachment, and debate about whether it should encroach for or against something in someone's private lives turns the matter of polygamy, polyamory, or non-straight marriage into a mere argument in favor of increased government control in peoples' private lives. I think this issue, and any issue regarding people's love lives, is too important to us personally and societally to be turned into an argument in favor of increased government activity. And it's an especially unfortunate argument when Americans spend one third of their money just subsidizing the government with income tax.
I appreciate your writing on such a lesser-known subject. I wish that all subcultures and social niches were at least as healthy as mine is, and that the idea of government intervention in peoples' lives was never begged by the actions of some. Thanks for writing.
Good hub! Hard to believe that this is still going on today in the United States. Of course, the abuse of women and children is not confined to polygamous societies, and law enforcement and other institutions do try to deal with abuse. Apparently polygamy has been tolerated even though it's illegal. As one of the speakers on the video said, Warren Jeff and his followers do resemble the Jim Jones cult.
Everyone had very good comments and I just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to make thoughtful comments.
Extraordinary and really interesting hub. As a husband of some years now, I would say that life is challenging enough with the one wife, never mind accommodating two (and I mean that in the most sincere way possible - you both have to work hard at a relationship - the courtship is the easy part!). I don't think you can build a stable, civilized community based on polygamy.
Pjdscott, you make a good point about how it would be hard for a husband to manage more than one wife because in both of the biographies I read about women living in polygamy, the number one complaint was there was never enough attention or money to go around. Irene in Shattered Dreams had to raise vegetables and come up with other ways to make money, and often she never saw her husband for several months at a time because he was always traveling so he could make money for all his wives. In Escape Carolyn's husband appeared to have a good deal of money, but he kept it all for himself and his favorite wife Barbara while everyone else barely had enough food to eat. Carolyn mentioned in her book it seemed Merril would rather be married to just Barbara, but he seemed as if he was only practicing polygamy because it was the wish of the group he belonged to. Thanks for the comments.
interesting hub. As a Christian, I oppose Polygamy. And I agree with PJDSCOTT, I don't think it will be a better place for us all. :)
I agree with you Beachbum_gabby, I do not believe in polygamy. It is sad what is happening to these women. Thanks for commenting.
I don't believe in polygamy either,but I also don't believe in Texas taking those children away from their mothers.Now the tax payers are strapped with many thousands of dollars to pay the appointed lawyers for these cases.
You are right flread and I mentioned in an earlier comment I do think the mothers should be able to stay with their children. However, some of the children taken away were teenagers and married to men in their fifties and sixties, so some of this is still under investigation. There is talk that things were not done correctly, but this is not the first raid on a polygamist compound as there were others back in the 40's and 50's. I think we need to find a better way to deal with these situations to help everyone involved.
I've seen several tv programs that showed this lifestyle/religion as positive and others that showed the negative side. One showed that most of the teenage boys were pushed out of the religion and had to go out on their own. That only makes sense, afterall, the older guys are marrying the younger girls - the rest of the male population has to go someplace.
Very interesting article. You did a great job.
Thanks for the comments Karen. I really am angered by these men after reading so many books on the subject. Most women who mary into polygamous marriages are brainwashed or forced to do so, which means there are very few consenting adults in the equation. Also, many of these marriages are with minors and that is just wrong and illegal. I hope that we can do more for these children and help to bring an end to this problem. I too feel sad for the lost boys, but I am glad there are organizations ready to help them when they are thrown off the compounds.
Definately polygamy does exist in the Islamic world, but should be banished from at least civilised countries like the USA.
Thank you for sharing your insights Indiacenter.
I find it rather inconsequential that it is no longer practiced by the Mormon Church. This is a practice that came long before Mormons (Even though the Mormon Church has a habit of revising their beliefs, to suit public approval, on several of its post biblical writtings that their founder Mr. Smith proposed as sin)
The act of polygamy Has been going on since the beginning of time. And believe it or not was not just accepted but, also viewed as a normal and proper way to live. This of course was a political and conventional attribute to powerful and influential men who could afford this life style and was also viewed by others as a high status of power and riches. To be a wife of a polygamist was a great honor, and also a viewed as a gift to be adorned because of the wealth and exceptence of those who worshiped them. This particular lifestyle is still practiced in many countries to this day. Of course these are countries that haven't given women the rights to vote let alone have an oppinion on how they are treated. In most countries to even contest to the wishes of a male is grounds for punishment. In our country we have the resources to not only contest but, refuse to be treated as though we are slaves. Inducted into a "family" for the purposes of breeding, and domestication, in cleaning and raising the offspring of some self deliuted womanizing prick whom views himself special enough to spread his seed and dictate his maleshovinistic view point to his socially stunted "family" dooming them to a life of ridicule and repremand from the world outside. This also promotes inssestual behavior because the children not only grow up without social interaction with the outside world, but the ritualistic teachings that they have been subjected to all of their lives. They have been told that the outside world will condemn them for their lifestyle and that they will be forsaken because they are diffrent. Polygamy is not a choice, for the wives or the children subjected to it. It is the choice of a selfish and sexually driven male who doesn't really care about the reprocussions of the life he is subjecting his so called "family" to. Fortunately, this country prohibits polygamy. I am grateful that We have the rights and recourses to deny any such behavior here. If this were a diffrent country we would not have the right to protest. Their wouldn't be any way to escape this type of peril. If we can associate and recognize the problem it can be stopped. Those of whom have lived this lifestyle have been forced into it and have indeed been psychologically manipulated and kept reclussed so that manipulation can continue. However, once they are introduced to public interaction they become aware that this is not normal family function. That is when they realize they can get help in getting out.
Amber,
Thanks for your insights. In the article I discussed how polygamy has been around since the beginning of time. I took a lot of pride in this article I wrote and I think it turned out so well. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for providing not only a provoking hub, but another platform here at HP for people to share their comments about the issue.
Before I read your hub, I'd been getting my information about the Texas events only from the mass media. Now, I will certainly read *Escape* and also be more attuned to the opinions I hear spoken around me.
Thanks for the eye-opener. I am much more informed.
Thank you for taking the time Sally to share you thoughts about the issue. If you read the book Escape I can say it is sad, but it is also uplifting in that she does escape and learns there is a world outside polygamy. I hope you enjoy it if you get the chance to read it.
You know, what good is hair that you can never let down and show? Is it a handle by which to grab a woman? I like long hair for women and I like to see it attactively displayed so that thers may enjoy its beauty. And short hair can be beautiful as well.
I do not condone ploygamy, but can see how some women may feel forced into considering it if they are economically disadvantaged. That is a tragedy.
Thanks for the Hub.
Thank you for your observations Patty Inglish, MS.
I sure wouldn't wanna be one of 10 husbands if it was the other way round.
Thanks for stopping by firetown. Polygamy is not fun for anyone involved and many of the men in these cults do not even enjoy it, they merely practice it because their religion dictates they should do this.
Wow, I didn't know this actually exist in US. It really disgusted me!
It is not a good thing at all. The Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints are a cult and they brainwash people into practicing polygamy and treating women and children badly in this cult. They have lived in isolated communities and often go under the radar. Thanks for stopping by Vietnamese.
You did a great job of standing your ground here and in the forums. Never worry about what people say, you are too sweet and worry too much, this was a wonderful and well written hub.
I think polygamy between consenting adults should be legal in states that choose to allow it, especially because of the "separation of church and state." Those who CHOOSE polygamy for religious reasons should definitely be allowed to do so, as long as the marriages are completely consenting. The problem is, there's no efficient way that I know of to be SURE the adults are consenting.
Although I think people need to be protected from being forced into polygamist marriages, I also think it's wrong to deny the right to consenting adults. If multiple people wish to be in a relationship together, they should have the same legal rights as anyone else. I believe in the right of every adult to marry whoever they wish to marry, and to be protected and have the same legal rights as anyone. As long as the marriage is consentual, I don't think anyone has the right to infringe upon it.
I disagree as the polygamists are pushing to make polygamy to be legal so they can continue to marry and impregnant underage girls, as was found to be the case recently. I encourage everyone to read Escape and Shattered Dreams so they can see what really happens in groups that claim polygamy is consentual because in most of the cases the women are forced to marry the most powerful men and the younger men are shipped off the compound out of fear they will become "competition". Polygamy in the United States is about older business men who know the laws, who own businesses, and who have a great deal of power. The is not an equalitarian system.
But what about consenting adults who really DO wish to enter into polygamist marriages? For example, I remember reading about Roseanne Barr when she was married to Tom Arnold. They wanted to marry this young woman and live together in a polygamist marriage. Now, Roseanne and Tom didn't work out, of course. But this was the most famous example of potentially "legitimate" polygamy that I could think of at the moment.
Should these three adults not be allowed to live the way they wish, and have all parties protected by law so that none of them would be left out of spousal benefits and protections?
There ARE polygamists who truly wish to participate in the lifestyle. Bisexuals, for example, who feel they love and want to be with more than one person. How can we deny them their rights? There must be a way to legalize it, while still protecting those who don't wish to be in it.
My honest opinion is that they should live together if they feel they must, but not legalize these unions. Legalizing polygamy would give the polyamists who already practice this more incentive to hurt minors. I do not care about what type of relationships people have, but honestly I feel marriage is between a husband and a wife and this is the law in most states right now. Yes I am a Christian and I may seem narrow minded for this belief, but that is my true belief and I feel that if others must have a different type of relationship, that they can do that outside of marriage. Honestly I feel some things are sacred and marriage between one man and one woman is one of those things. My parents have been married since 1974 and it is not a picnic, but they work it out because they believe in for better and worse until death do us part. My grandparents have been married since 1949 and my grandpa is not nursing my ailing grandma. Let live and let live, but honestly I will not be changing my opinion on this matter. I think we can agree to disagree :). Thanks for sharing your viewpoint :).
I appreciate your viewpoint, but I think that's really unfair to "non-traditional" couples and families. Marriage isn't just a Biblical insitution, nor is is just a piece of paper. It's something that gives people legal protections. It's completely unfair for a gay couple to live together for 40 years, and when one of them dies they can't collect social security benefits or a pension check the way a widow or widower would be able to. They also can't have the benefits of medical care from their partner's insurance at work, or many other benefits that are available only to married people. And that's just wrong.
I'm not one of those people who believes it has to be CALLED marriage. I think civil unions would be fine, but I can also understand how gay couples would feel that is discriminatory. Still, I think ALL couples AND families, including potential polygamists, should be able to have protection under the law. To deny them the same rights as other families is inhuman.
I understand you won't be changing your mind on the matter. Pardon my saying this, for I don't intend to be rude, but honestly religious people are THE most closed-minded people I have ever encountered. I don't mean disrespect with that statement, it's just the truth as I have experienced it. I grew up as a Southern Baptist and I left the church permanently after I could no longer bear the intolerance and the fact that they all had these cute little bumper stickers that say, "What would Jesus do?" But they don't generally practice that themselves.
I know that not EVERY Christian is like this. You certainly don't seem to be. Closed-minded, perhaps, but you don't seem like the "God hates fags" crowd. :)
Still, I couldn't bear being around so many people who would condemn people for making their own choices. It hurt me. I was brought up by these people and I loved these people, and as I grew up to see the way many of them behaved, I couldn't bear it. I had to leave.
And for the record, my grandfather also nursed my grandmother through several years of Alzheimer's, and she died at home with him. I don't come from a background of polygamy or gay and lesbian couples. To the best of my knowledge I don't have any gay or lesbian family members on either side. But I know what's right, and to deny non-traditional families medical and financial protection is to deny them the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Thanks for allowing me to share my viewpoint. I appreciate the chance. :)
Oh, and I noticed you're from California. I just thought I'd point out that gay marriage was just legalized there a few days ago. Polygamy, no. But at least it's a step toward the basic protections that families should have. :D
No I do not hate anyone and gay marriage was just approved here in California today. That is fine if it makes them happy, but honestly I do not have health insurance as a single person working two part-time jobs, websites, and writing, so I think people who do have health benefits are better off than I am. Not to feel sorry for myself, but I feel we should have universal health care to meet the needs of all.
Well that's something we can definitely agree on. I have no health benefits myself, and I also believe in universal health care. :)
Health care is something that no one should be denied.
I think someone should write a hub about this. Maybe you can since we both agree on it. I will be the first person to comment on it if you do.
Just to give you a few
http://hubpages.com/hub/Universal-Health-care-is-a
http://hubpages.com/hub/Canada_has_better_health_c
http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Case-For-Universal-Hea
Thanks.
Nice article I have to say one day I would love to try few wives lol
Do whatever you like. Most likely polygamy is going to be legalized one day soon anyway. This article is mostly about my opinion, if you want to have twenty wives more power to you! lol
Sweetie Pie,
You are great! I just joined your fan club. I am going to be getting you some traffic from some of my close friends.
I particularly loved when you said, "In communism there was the ideal it would work because everyone would "evenly divide the labor." However, communal societies do not work this way and one person always ends up taking on a greater share of the responsibilities." That is so true and that is exactly how these societies are set up.
I am afraid that many people as Amy look at this as a freedom of religion, freedom of thought issue. I may have myself if I did not have an up close and personal knowledge as to what it is really about. It leads to child abuse, rape, and spousal abuse whenever it is accepted as the norm.
Talford,
You leave me speechless and thank you for pointing this out. This is exactly what I have been trying to explain to people with this hub, but you have done that so well. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your knowledge and first hand experiences, I truely value these.
Thank you for addressing these social issues in your hub. I have only one comment to make regarding this statement:
Up until 1890 polygamy was practiced by all Mormons, but the Latter Day Saints gave up the practice with the beginning of of statehood in 1890.
Polygamy was not practiced by all Mormons before 1890. Most Mormons did not participate in polygamous marriages. Participating in polygamy was considered to be a measure of one's religious worth, especially for men. Most of these marriages were reserved for older men who had businesses and owned property, as in the FLDS culture now. I think that some people left the LDS church as a result of practicing polygamy, but the huge influx of Danish, Irish, and English immigrants to the U.S. as a result of converting to Mormonism left the church and many of its members greatly impoverished. These people as a general rule were not considered "worthy" of plural marriage. It is a strange history.
As an LDS person myself, I cannot comprehend the attraction of practicing polygamy in any era.
Good points and thanks for sharing.
often i used to wonder what feminism is -just not wearing bras? and fighting for lesbian rights etc.,
now what you have condemned is a sterling article which should inspire every feminist
this is what is a progressive idea and this shows that you are ultrafeminine.
that in essence is feminism - be individualistic without confronting with men or gender issues- good work
when the state of united states is liberated sex and confused family issues you have clarity in mind and it is a clarion call for all the women alike
ban polygamy legally
Thanks for sharing your comments tinyteddy.
This is an interesting discussion. The topic of polygamy in Indonesia is also in the heat until recent days, especially because some men claim it to be the reason of the religion they confess that allow this (which is Islam) instead of having an affair behind their spouse. But I do not think that Islam easily gives this permission without consequences and under special circumstances. I personally do not agree with polygamy as it will lead you more to bad things of which one of these is a broken relationship among the family members than bring you good ones.
Dinamars,
Thanks you for adding something to the discussion that was not here before. I do agree with you on this, polygamy makes things very complicated in the long run. Maybe you should write a hub about what is happening in Indonesia about this issue, which I am sure many people would find interesting.
From what I have read Islam requires that all wives (limit 3) be treated EQUALLY. So even if one wife is favored the others still get fed, clothed, and housed "equally". No palace for the favorite wife/chicken coop for the least favorite.
One of the interesting comments I heard from a mother of 4 children is that having one kid was peaceful most of the time, two kids play together pretty well most of the time, with three kids it's two vs one a lot of the time (the sides changed, of course), but when she had 4 kids there was always someone fighting with someone else.
I almost wonder if the same dynamic isn't true of multiple-spouse marriages, just as a part of how humans interact together.
BTW, her kids all grew up turned out fine, and get along great as adults, but boy those teen years....!
Thanks for commenting. However, this hub is about polygamy in the US, which most of these people belong to a Christian cult called the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. Polygamy in Islam actually treats women somewhat better than polygamous cults here in the US, but each of these cases vary. I have read about inequality in polygamous marriages in Islam, so those are not perfect either. No one said growing up in polygamy makes people odd because that is not the case. Carolyn Jessop grew up in polygamy, but when she saw how horrific the cult was becoming she escaped and is now living outside the cult. The last I heard she is engaged and most of her children are happy and healthy, although one decided to go back to the cult of her own free will. However, some really strange things do happen in those cults, which does not necessarily mean everyone in those cults are damaged.
I would suggest reading Shattered Dreams and Escape to learn more about polygamous cults here in the US. Both of these books are written by women who lived through polygamy and they can share why it is not an equitable institution. Dinamars is from Indonesia and she seems pretty knowledgeable about Islam, so you could ask her questions about polygamy in Islam. However, polygamy in Islam is different than polygamy in cults, so we can compare these, but not truly.
I just wonder what I would do if married to two women and they didn't agree on what it is that I was supposed to be doing. I have a hard enough time following the instructions of just one woman let alone two. Then you have to think of the PMS senario, God how would you keep from killing yourself putting up with more than one wife to deal with during that time of the month? It just isn't practicle. Besides I can barly aford the one I have.
Agro Donkey,
You bring up a very important points here. Some men think yay polygamy rocks, but they might feel differently after they had a couple of wives or so. The husband in the two books I recommend Shattered Dreams and Escape usually ended up doing more things with one wife than the others. One woman always vied for more attention and she was usually the winner.
working
Eileen Hughes says:
3 months ago
This is real scary thats for sure. The average person cannot really understand the lengths of control those people have over their brethren Good hub with lots of information. Thanks for that