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Supply and Demand: Capitalism vs. Communism

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By nhkatz


The Humans and the Bees

This hubpage is inspired by a lecture of Tatsuya Kameda given on 3/23/09 in the colloquium of the Indiana University Cognitive Sciences program. The lecture concerned the question of whether and why people work in groups. The problem which was envisioned was that of hunting and gathering. The issue was what was the best way for hunters and gatherers to decide where to hunt and gather. They could work as a group by each going off separately to do reconnaissance, share their info and then decide where to forage as a group.

Apparently, empirical studies show that bees do this sort of thing conscientiously, but when humans try to do it, only a few members of the group are doing any work while the rest shirk their duties. Nevertheless, this system is more efficient than just having the most intelligent human dictate where the group will go based on only his own reconnaissance.

Kameda tried to explain this disparity of behavior between bees and humans. He attributed the difference to bees' only being aware of a hive interest while humans pursue their individual self-interest. Kameda worked out a mathematical model that explained human behavior. The production curve (describing the amounting of hunting and gathering achieved as a function of the number of people doing their duty) was concave. (That is there was declining marginal production/ person, the more people were conscientious.) [The concavity is quite natural. When many people go out information gathering, often they will uncover the same facts.] People would only perform their duties as long as the marginal contribution to their individual share of the group take was greater than the cost of their participation.

There is some value of the number of people at which marginal contribution equals cost and this is the number of people that would work. It is a stable equilibrium. If fewer people were working, the pay-off would be greater. If more people were working, the pay-off would be smaller.

All of this started sounding very familiar to me. I tried to reconcile it with my rather limited knowledge of Economics.

Tatsuya Kameda


Supply and Demand

 I really know only one theorem in microeconomics. It is this: The price of a commodity will equal the cost of the marginal producer. Let us see why this is.

The law of supply and demand dictates that the price of a commodity is decreasing with increased supply. This corresponds to the concave production function in Kameda's argument. Any producer who is able to produce at a cost less than the price will do so. The fact that production changes the price doesn't matter much. The equilibrium is stable. More production lowers the price which lowers the payoff for production while less production increases the price which increases the payoff for production. It is good, classical economics.

A stable equilibrium

One curve denotes supply available at a given price, the other demand at a given price. Because of the monotonicity of the curves, there is a unique point of intersection. It represents the stable equilibrium.
One curve denotes supply available at a given price, the other demand at a given price. Because of the monotonicity of the curves, there is a unique point of intersection. It represents the stable equilibrium.

Communism: (Or the Rearden-Boyle steel pool)

The law of supply and demand seemed very similar to Kameda's argument. Both rested on a stable equilibrium arising from a concave production function. However, there is an important difference. In Kameda's model, the payoff to an individual from his effort is merely his share of the payoff to the group. We can set up a similar model in the setting of production of commodities.

Suppose there are N steel mills of a given capacity with varying costs. Let Pbe the price of steel. (You can imagine it declines with the amount of steel produced.) Suppose that each mill receives an equal share of the revenue generated by all N mills together regardless of whether or not it produces any steel. Thus the benefit to any mill of the steel it produces is P/N, its share of the price. Thus the price is now N times the cost of the marginal producer. Only those steel makers efficient enough to produce steel at 1/N th of its price will produce any. There is again a stable equilibrium. It is essentially Kameda's stable equilibrium.

Aside: In the final chapters of Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged, a proposal is made very similar to this. The efficient steel maker Rearden and the  inefficient steel maker Boyle will pool their resources and each be paid not according to his production but to his number of furnaces. The parameters are set so that Rearden has a negative incentive to produce. (But they could have been set differently.)

Often when economists deal with this example, they only consider the case in which N goes to infinity. Then there is no production. This is quite a challenge to the traditional Marxist view of things. Marxists like to imagine that the physical means of production determine how much production there will be. But here we have an example where by keeping the means of production constant but by altering the incentive structure, there is a radical change in the amount of production.

Incidentally this paradox for Marxists is a triumph for economists. It shows that changes in apparently abstract things like the supply of money, or the incentive structure can create concrete changes in the real economy, in the amount of production, for instance. Economists aren't concerned with anything like the morality of an economic arrangement. They are merely (dismal) scientists trying to figure out what might happen in any given arrangement.

However more needs to be said. It is not necessary that N be infinite. There might be fixed costs associated with maintaining an unproductive steel mill even in a communist system. This will keep down the number of mills N. Thus even in the communist system, there will still be production. It will be entirely carried out by the more efficient largely for the benefit of the less efficient. Nevertheless, it will still benefit the efficient enough to make it worth their while to carry it out.

Largely the utilitarian argument made by economists against communism boils down to this argument. Under communism, there is less production. But one could also see advantages to communism. No one goes without. Only the best and brightest work. The rest have plenty of leisure time to twiddle their thumbs.

A final important point I'd like to make is that often those issues which are actually economic issues, are quantitative and not just qualitative. It isnot just important whether or not there is a stable equilibrium. It is not important just what happens when parameters go to zero or infinity. It can be important to know where the stable equilibria are when the values of the parameters are moderate.

Ideologues who venture into economic theory often err because they have heartfelt beliefs which intefere with their consideration of subtle issues. Marx may have missed the role of incentives in economics because incentives were not physical, but rather a human convention. Rand claimed that N goes to infinity case showed that looters were never practical and her ideas were. Her idea was that Rearden should run away in the dark of night to Colorado carrying only the bar of gold a visiting pirate had given him.

Empirical evidence that Ayn Rand's ideas were not entirely practical may be found in the dearth of disappearing industrialists in the more than fifty years since her novel was published. Perhaps a mathematical model could be set up to explain this which takes account of the costs of resisting the government.

Economics is a science. It is neutral and may serve consumers, producers, and looters alike. When the looters establish their laws, these laws have parameters and they will try to set these parameters, using, they hope, sound economics, in order to maximize their take. (The optimization process is sometimes called suply side economics.) It requires leaving the producers some incentives to produce. Ayn Rand was wrong in at least one respect. A society can exist that is half free and half loot. For good or ill that is the world in which we are living. Moreover, the parameter "half" can be varied.

 

Some economists

Karl Marx: Thought the means of production determine production.
Karl Marx: Thought the means of production determine production.
Ayn Rand: Thought the philosophers of the world should go on strike.
Ayn Rand: Thought the philosophers of the world should go on strike.
The Once-ler: A pioneer in resource management.
The Once-ler: A pioneer in resource management.
George McGovern: Advocated a 100% marginal tax rate.
George McGovern: Advocated a 100% marginal tax rate.

Exit

Who do you think was the most practical economically?

  • Karl Marx
  • Ayn Rand
  • The Once-Ler
  • George McGovern
See results without voting

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Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz  says:
9 months ago

Nets, you raise a lot of interesting points. Concerning the difference between humans and bees, you wrote: "Kameda tried to explain this disparity of behavior between bees and humans. He attributed the difference to bees' only being aware of a hive interest while humans pursue their individual self-interest. Kameda worked out a mathematical model that explained human behavior."

Non-mathematicians refer to this difference between humans and bees as a matter of theory of mind. I understand that psychological definitions of theory of mind are not sufficiently rigorous for math. Would you say that Kameda has formalized a definition of "theory of mind"? Is there some reality to the distinction between a hive functioning like a single entity, whereas humans consider themselves separate from humanity or their particular group?

Capitalism requires that capital be held in the hands of a few and that workers not have control of the means of production. To what extent is this true of either bees or hunter gatherers?  

I have read anthropological studies that stated that since hunter-gatherers had no surplus, each individual did feel free to go his own way, since he lived entirely by his own effort. (That's not counting dependent young.) If there's a disagreement about where to go, different people go in different directions.

If under communism non-producers merely fiddled their thumbs and let producers do all the work, the situation would not be so bad. But power struggles at work are often about how the work is to be done, and the politicians among the workers get to decide.

nhkatz profile image

nhkatz  says:
9 months ago

Aya,

You should not confuse the set of all nonmathematicians with yourself. Kameda does not refer to the difference between bees and humans as one of theory of mind. He actually made the assertion that difference is that all bees see each other as kin. This was not an original observation on his part but a quote of some part of the bee literature. (But anyway this was not his main point. He did not seem that interested in bees.) [Just so things are clear Kameda is neither a mathematician nor an economist. He is a neuro-psychologist.]

Kameda is clearly more interested in hunter-gatherers than in bees. Your question about whether hunter-gatherers require concentrations of capital is the only one which is really to the point, interpreted correctly. Kameda claims that yes, they do. He claims that Hunter-Gatherers typically work in groups and his motivation is to explain why. [An example of an explanation is that travelling in groups makes one less susceptible to sabre-tooth tiger attacks.] I don't claim to know whether any of this is true.

Anyway none of that has too much to do with this blog since I was really more discussing the incentive structure. My use of terms capitalism and communism is somewhat imprecise intended to dishonestly stir up interest.

Your point about people wanting to be in charge of the work under communism is similarly well taken. My first instinct is to launch into a Marxist dialectic. But the better part of valor is to say: it just isn't true communism since though all animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others.

True Marxism is where hardly anybody has any incentives to work. That's commercial chastity for you.

Nets

Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz  says:
9 months ago

Nets, this may not be to the point, either, but a job well done is its own reward! (The important thing is that the worker not then be punished for it.)

Does Kameda distinguish between incentives and disincentives? Punishment and reward? I realize that mathematically, it might all be a matter of a single continuum, but psychologically there might be a difference.

nhkatz profile image

nhkatz  says:
9 months ago

Perhaps before addressing these points, you should reread what Amnon has to say about utility functions in "Liberty and Justice."

http://hubpages.com/hub/Liberty-and-Justice-Why--H

Nets

Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz  says:
9 months ago

Nets, thanks for the plug!

Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz  says:
9 months ago

Okay, now that I've refreshed my memory on utility functions, I recall that they depend on individual personal preferences that require no justification.

Does Kameda deal with the fact that different people have different utility functions for the same outcome?

nhkatz profile image

nhkatz  says:
9 months ago

Actually no. In Kameda's model, all individuals have the same cost function. But it is encoded in my model!!! It's encoded in the individual cost function.

For people who are having trouble following this discussion, I'd like to now make some historical remarks.

Amnon's paper while it has the tone of a scholarly article, was in fact written for other purposes. This leaves it with the drawback of not being very well footnoted.

For anyone is wondering where this wonderful utility theory comes from, I believe it is a reference to a discusion in the seminal book "Theory of Games and Economic Behavior" by Oskar Morgenstern and John Von Neumann. In this book, they established the theory of games as a tool in Economics. Every later book on game theory just takes for granted that games are described by payoff function. Morgenstern and Von Neumann took the time to derive this from more abstract principles. (Personal preferences and the continuity of these preferences under parameters.) That's the utility theory.

This hub may be viewed as continuing in the tradition of Morgenstern and Von Neumann. Described above are some multi-person non-zero sum games in terms of their payoff functions. What was not known at time of Morgenstern and Von Neumann's book was the notion of Nash equilibrium. The equilibria described are all Nash equilibria of multi-person games. (The notion of Nash equilibrium was what got Nash his Nobel prize.)

It is quite common to discuss the economics of cooperation and competition in terms of multi-person non-zero sum games. You should compare these games with prisoner's dilemma. This comparison was quite specific in Kameda's work. He referred to the workers as cooperators and the shirkers as defectors. His point was that unlike prisoner's dilemma, his game had a Nash equilibrium where not everyone defects.

Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz  says:
9 months ago

The specific footnotes in LIBERTY & JUSTICE that apply to utility functions are as follows:

5. Use reference 6 as an overview of game theory and a source for further references. See ref 7 for the original work.

6. Morton D. Davis, Game Theory, Basic Books, New York, 1970.

7. John von Neuman and Oskar Morgenstern, The Theory of Games and Economic Behavior, Princeton University Press, Princeton 1953.

nhkatz profile image

nhkatz  says:
9 months ago

Wow you're right. Davis does seem to have a chapter on utility theory. I doubt it contains a proof.

Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz  says:
9 months ago

Davis was meant as an overview for those unfamiliar with the concepts.

nhkatz profile image

nhkatz  says:
9 months ago

Morgenstern and Von Neumann was intended as an overview for those unfamiliar with the concepts which at the time it was written was everyone besides Morgenstern and Von Neumann.

Albrecht Hennings  says:
8 months ago

Nets, I think it is clear that there is no "right economic model" and that this depends on the situation in space, time and cirmcumstances of a particular society. There is however something to be said about it. First of all, in both extreme cases, Capitalism and Marxism, the role of government cannot be neglected. Absolute freedom is virtually impossible, and it has nothing to do with excess of supply, number of people or anything. It is intrinsic to perfect competition that there will appear industries with increasing returns to escale, thus monopolies will emerge and thus the principle of agents just taking prices will be violated. In Marxism freedom is reduced, and all the between cases one could venture can be "interpolated"?. The role of society, when is organized, is at least to create, modify and handle the incentives, that is in the case with most possible freedom. Societies do so in some cases by choosing certain people to represent them (there is not a perfect way to do this either, but that is a matter of a possible later hub?)...but in general they do it one way or another, that is why Rand's scenario is very difficult to produce suspension of disbelief, one would imagine that a society would never reach that point, it would have changed the incentives before that. There are very effective ways to do so, remember that "you can achieve more with a gun and a kind word than just with a kind word". Societies take care of themselves and are in complete control, this is the ultimate ,and I think, the only real possibility of freedom.

-AH

ledefensetech profile image

ledefensetech  says:
6 months ago

nhkatz, you are aware that you're talking about people and not abstract mathematical concepts right? You seem to lean that way in the begining or your article and do a bang up job describing classical economcs. You also make a good point about Communism being inefficient. What you miss is that economic action is just that, action. There isn't a mathematics brach evolved enough to take into account the infinite number of decisions 6 billiion people make every day. In addition, I think yo miss the fact that Communism doesn't work because there is no mechanism to tell a Party hack if they've made enough shoes, nails, nuts, bolts, etc. That's why Communism has surpluses and shortages of goods. There's no way to make economic calculations.

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