THE ONLY LAW
61WHO CREATED WHOM?
ONLY LIFE IS SACRED
We must strive with every fiber of our being to honor this one law. If we are sufficiently aware to understand and obey this law, we will need no other.
To move, to breathe, to eat, even simply to exist means to constantly destroy life.
The universe does not care. It is exquisitely indifferent and can exist quite nicely without it. Despite the musings of numerous scientific experts and glowing descriptions of the living universe, if there were no life within it the universe would continue without concern.
Some believe in intelligent design. I honestly and sincerely wish them joy and fulfillment in their belief.
Their theory would require that there was life before life was created. A bit of a paradox but not a significant obstacle for the devoted science fiction fan. I’ve often puzzled over where, exactly, the pre-life life came from.
Some insist that intelligent design is not a religious proposition but rather a science, which has not yet acquired any verifiable data. They’re cobbling some together even now I suppose.
All they are doing is taking the word “god” out of the discussion and replacing it with the “intelligent designer”. It’s still religion, with a different name for the deity.
I cannot disprove it, nor am I interested in confrontations with those who cannot prove it yet insist they have. It can neither be proven nor disproven so why don’t we just leave it alone?
No, how about this?
Billions of years ago there was this mad alien scientist experimenting in a secret laboratory.
Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble. It’s aliiiiiiiiiiiive!
When the experiment was ready, the switch was thrown and, voila, the universe was intelligently designed. That's just as likely as the scenario of the “divine” god in my opinion.
That word, “opinion” is very important. Take note of it.
I cannot disprove that a designer existed any more than anyone can prove it did. Nor can anyone disprove evolution, the big bang or the existence of a singularity, no more so than I can prove their veracity.
Some people prefer to go with the preponderance of evidence, some prefer faith. Fine! I’ve got no problem with either side as long as they are willing to shut up about it, work together and live in peace!
Rather than saying, “OK, you believe that and I’ll believe this, now let’s get to work and build a better world together”, we say instead, “I won’t work with you until you agree to act, look, think and behave exactly as I do. You must accept that my truth as the only truth or we cannot share the world”.
So we bicker, argue, fight and even kill each other over esoteric mumbo jumbo, which is irrelevant to the survival of our species.
Consequently, whilst we’re embroiled in our endless feuding, a small cabal of racist, sexist parasitic supremacists has taken over the planet and is even now in the process of decimating humanity and stealing all the resources of Earth for the exclusive use of the master race!
Just for the sake of clarity, someone tell me this, if god, the designer if you prefer, created everything, who created the creator? Where did the designer come from? If you can’t give me a sound answer to that question then you need to stop insisting that I accept intelligent design on faith, which is a prerequisite since there is no science to support it.
If the human race was part of the plan, the designer was apparently not all that intelligent anyway!
The same problem confronts scientists who have managed to take us back to the moment the universe began. They have determined there was a "singularity" from which the universe was born.
OK. Where did the singularity come from? What was its source? How was it created? Pay no attention to the alien behind the curtain!
The difference is, at least the scientists are attempting to offer an explanation. They have compiled thousands of years of empirical study, verifiable research, rigorous scientific investigation and reproducible experimentation to at least give credence to their conclusions. Science is constantly striving to learn and always willing to embrace change when warranted.
Creationists have faith and nothing more. There is no science of divine creationism to support intelligent design.
I understand that faith seems easier than scientific investigation. It doesn’t require any critical thinking, just unconditional surrender. That actually strikes me as a much greater sacrifice than the time or effort needed to learn about the reality based universe.
There are those who choose faith and it is their choice to make. I respect that decision absolutely.
There are others who insist on only hard science. That’s fine. Once again, the choice is theirs.
There are many who come down somewhere between the two poles.
In any case it’s a personal choice and should not be permitted to interfere with the functioning of society. It should not prevent us from living in peace. It should never, under any circumstances, be used as the justification for murder.
So, believe what you like! I don’t care. Really. Believe what you like and allow me to do the same and let’s get on with the business of working together to unite humanity rather than making certain it remains fractious, conflicted and easily oppressed.
One thing I know with certainty is that organized religion has long and often been used as a great divider. It has been a wedge, driven between the brothers, sisters and families of humanity for millennia. Along with racism, nationalism and sexism it has kept the vast majority of our family in a constant state of conflict.
Similarly, science and technology, although usually pursued with the best intentions, and we know what road is paved with those, is very frequently, more often than not actually, stolen by those who crave power and perverted to the purpose of war for profit.
It’s not unlike the usurpation of the wisdom of enlightened individuals by power-seeking priesthoods who create “religion” for the purpose of controlling their flock.
The profiteers and the priests seek the same ends by different though equally despicable means.
As we obediently participate in our own demise, those behind the scenes, who worship no god but wealth and power, who hold no allegiance to any nation, who seek no knowledge but that which advances their agenda of complete global dominance, move ever closer to achieving their goal.
As we debate needlessly, we pave the way to a world slave-state for which the abuse of religion and science will be equally responsible.
Everyone needs to stop conflicting over this issue.
Let's just call this religion v science debate a draw and get on with things that actually matter.
Where we came from is inconsequential if our disputes over the question are only contributing to our headlong race toward extinction.
Believe what you want. Worship the omnipotent holy asparagus or believe that little green men came here long ago and seeded Earth with Life. Who gives a rat’s ass! No one should. To obsess over such things only creates divisiveness, conflict and strife.
Others will believe as they choose. Get over it!
Now, this is what it’s really about. The problem is not what people believe, it’s their insistence that everyone must believe the same thing and their inability to coexist with those who will not comply. This attitude does not foster peaceful relations.
We’ll never end war as long as belief is what we’re fighting over.
Let’s get together and get beyond this petty bickering and see if we can prevent our species from committing collective suicide!
Oh wait! I almost forgot. We don't need to worry. God will take care of everything.
No, wait! I mean science and technology will save us… from ourselves.
Religion is the highest form of apathy, science the highest conceit.
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Comments
Hi CWB - I think most of the arguments arise not so much when people insist that others adopt their beliefs as when they insist on imposing their law or morality on others, i.e. requiring people to conform in their actions, more than in their thoughts.
"I won’t work with you until you agree to act, look, think and behave exactly as I do. You must accept that my truth as the only truth or we cannot share the world”.
Well there are many circumstances in life that began way back when. They were not so knowledgeable, there weren't so many people, and survival was a lot different in the beginning and it seems to me they did get along a bit better then we do now? Or maybe it was just more self survival...But is hard not to wonder; when they did begin writing/recording things about LIFE. even scratched their thoughts in the rocks in the caves...
I am not an authority at all just go by my feelings (though taught to me by a religion) I still believe Life is a Miracle and I hate the fighting as you do, but it is so out of control and just how do you suggest that so many millions will be able to come together and be peaceful...ever?
Well as it is now it seems impossible and I agree the Universe as a planets go doesn't care but people doooo. :O) G-Ma HUGs Love the picture good job !!!
The only thing I'm trying to say here earnestshub, really, is let's just stop fighting over nonsense and focus our efforts on working together for the benefit of everyone.
We need to stop thinking about ourselves and show some concern for our children and theirs.
Things will soon be beyond repair, if they're not already.
Well Paraglider, as far as I know the means for monitoring peoples thoughts haven't been achieved...yet.
So when the Inquisitor General tells me I must comply or die I will probably make every effort to appear to be in compliance.
I guess you could say that a major cause of revolution is people who simply refuse to pretend any more.
Thanks G-Ma.
I'd have to do a little research but there are some caves in France with some very early art that could be considered "records" of Life.
I just get frustrated. People spend so much passion in conflict over things that, if you really think about it, just aren't that important. It seems it could all be channeled to much more positive purposes.
Let the priests an the scientists compete to determine what it all means.
We need to start taking care of our family.
Nice hub, and interesting
Keep on Hubbing!
Yes coldwarbaby is true... but everyone wants to let the others know what they discovered...and without sharing how can you make millions think differently? This has gone on far too long and even if it takes Something to believe in and keep people honest and caring then so be it.
But even that has gone to **** and so confusion is always the result of ignorance..or not wanting to believe in anything brings chaos..order and laws are what help keep things in order. Problem being the Laws have too many loop holes, the politicians got too much control because people were too trusting, or got too lazy to keep up...But the past is the past and we should learn from it.
Personally I think it is a very impossible job to have any form of normality when there are so many people at so many different ages/cultures with so many things available..It is just plain overwhelming...ooops...got carried away...:O) Hugs G-Ma
Thanks eovery.
I will.
Yes G-Ma, it does get overwhelming. I'm just Utopian dreamer I guess. I just can't understand why people always insist on doing everything the hard way and why we never seem to learn from history and our mistakes.
Great hub - CWB - and just one law to follow! If only we did follow it. Unfortunately, for most of the world's population, belief is sacred, life isn't and there probably lies the main problem!
Dream on of Utopia - if more of us did that, it might just come true someday soon :)
Thanks Shalini. It seems it should be so simple but things are rarely as they seem. That dream is all that keeps me going. I believe that day will come. I can only hope it will be soon.
Why wonder my mind with with scientific theories which never make sense to me? I hold on my faith since life is a mystery which science cannot explain the riddle. As a world we will always hold diffrent beliefs, but we can work together to better the society and then wait to discover the mystry after this life.
You certainly aren't required to trouble your mind with science mosesm. Your choice.
Me, I love science. I love to use my mind, ask questions and gain understanding.
We should always hold different beliefs. I'm just tired of people arguing, fighting and even killing each other because of them.
Yes, we can work together but we usually don't and that's my point.
As far as what's after this life, that's anybodies guess.
Great hub Coldwar. I prefer the 90s when people had rational conflicts with one another. Now, it seems if you have one disagreement you've done something so offence (to there sensibilities *cough* *cough*), that they punish you in the worst way possible for something that's not even a crime. If humanity goes down this route I can't see it doing anything but destroying itself. "Oh, my arguments better than yours"... nuclear war. Hopefully I'm wrong, I certainly hope I am, but I really done think so.
Thanks Writer Rider.
Seems like people spend most of their time and passion fighting over things that are really inconsequential.
All that effort, if channeled in a positive way, could accomplish so much good in the world.
I just think it's very sad.
You got the nail right on the head with this one man.
As long as the power brokers can keep the divisions happening there will be no peace. People are just too f***** dumb to see it !
Divide and conquer!
Since you start with the "One Law" that all Life is Sacred, one must assume you are Pro-Life? A baby in its Mother's womb is certainly alive, so to kill it (end its life) would violate the "One Law" yes?
“I won’t work with you until you agree to act, look, think and behave exactly as I do. You must accept that my truth as the only truth or we cannot share the world”. This statement you have made—You imply you are quoting someone but I cannot find anyone who said this except you. It is a nice idea you have that we should not argue or shove each others beliefs down each others throats but then you go on to snidely denigrate others beliefs a few paragraphs later with your mad scientist metaphor and "Worship the Holy Asparagus" remark.
Faith is the easy way out? Not so! Faith is hard. Surely someone without faith cannot claim to be an expert on the exertion required to live by Faith in God. Believing that there cannot be a creator because everything you see in this universe appears to be created and so therefore who created the creator makes no sense. A look around at how the laws of science work leads me to believe it is designed to work. By an Eternal Creator. I don't care if you believe it or not. A person who thinks it impossible for a being outside this universe to be an Eternal Being is limiting his critical thinking. The mathematical odds of all we see coming into being as a result of a random accident? Now there's a crazy idea. There are a lot of zeroes on the end of those odds.
This statement of religion used to justify murder is interesting. I assume you are referring to Muslims because I don't know any Christians, Buddhists, Hindus or Jews who use religion to justify murder. But you use the blanket term "Religion." The most heinous murderers in the history of the world were Atheists, like you: Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, Adolph Hitler—there's 100 million dead to start. I don't see Religion as a divider. When I see a billion Christians, worldwide, worship on Sunday I see people coming together. What else brings that number of people together? Religion as a constant source of conflict, you say? I don't see that either. You must be referring to the Middle East but a big part of that conflict is about land and about a failed society that cannot face the shame of that failure—not religion exclusively. You spend most of this diatribe disparaging the beliefs of most of the people in the world and then you wonder why we can't get just along and not launch diatribes against each other. This level of hostility is something I only see directed at Christians—not directed by Christians. Those who believe in nothing appear to be very angry at those who believe in something.
You believe that where we come from is inconsequential? That the ultimate purpose and meaning of life isn't that important? I respect your right to hold this worldview but it is a worldview nonetheless. It is Nihilism. If you believe in nothing you'll believe in anything. And you seem to be saying that your worldview is valid but the worldview of those who have Faith is invalid. Exactly who is insisting that everyone must believe the same thing? I have not heard anyone say that ever except Muslims and You. I am glad you love to use your mind to understand; but why imply that those who seek God are not using their minds to try to understand?
You go on to express your anxiety about thought monitoring and persecution, and you seem to insinuating the thought police and persecutors are religious. I must assume you mean the religion of Secular Humanism (or the Taliban). It is not Christians who are pushing "hate crime" law (as if all crime isn't hateful) to punish people for their thoughts. It is not Christians who are the Politically Correct Thought Police—it is Christians who are the persecuted by the thought police. After all your words, filled with snide loathing and belittling of billions of other people and their worldviews, you then say, "Why can't we all just be positive."
CWB--I agree with you. I think that we are teetering on the edge of some kind of cliff, but some people, like lemmings, are rushing toward the cliff and jumping off. It's like we're about to enter another Dark Age, with the religious right leading the crusade to dim all the lights.
I don't understand the charge of religious persecution from the right. The branch of Buddhism that I admired tried to open centers in the midwest over and over again and finally gave up because of the unrelenting harassment and violence visited upon them by Bible thumpers. They did manage to open a center in Chicago which is still active, but most of their centers are on either coast.
Similarly, the people most vehement about the unborn seem to think murdering physicians who perform abortions is fine. They're also fine with women dying in backstreet abortions. I'm 56, so I remember when that happened all the time. Outlawing abortion doesn't stop abortion, it just insures women will die along with the fetuses they carry.
The Catholic Church, which is so passionately against abortion, has a really bad problem with clergy who like little boys. While that is indeed one way to prevent abortion, it's hard to admire it as a solution, and it's hard to take such an organization seriously when it wants to preach to others about the sanctity of life and blah blah blah. But then what would you expect from the organization that brought us the Inquistion and that burned millions of women alive so they could steal their property?
I think that if an organization wants to claim moral authority, that organization might start by behaving in a moral fashion.
I don't know, it's just a thought.
Hey pg— Do you really remember women dying in back alley abortions all the time? :D Did you ever know a single woman who died in a back alley abortion?
The Inquisition: Did you say "millions" of women were burned at the stake? :D For their property? In the Middle Ages? :D
Yes James. Yes I did know such a woman. Yes millions of women were burned for their property.
I want to be polite to you, I want to be respectful, and yet there is a really hateful tone to much of what you say that I find off-putting.
Certainly you have a right to your opinions, but I also have a right to mine. Also, read some history. Start with the the Malleus Mallificarum, since you seem inclined that direction.
"Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble. It’s aliiiiiiiiiiiive!When the experiment was ready, the switch was thrown and, voila, the universe was intelligently designed. That's just as likely as the scenario of the “divine” god in my opinion."
All I can say is WOW...what a great Line! And a very well done hub! Bravo!
pgrundy— I sincerely apologize if you feel my tone is hateful. I certainly don't hate anybody. I love everybody. I do not mean to offend. I'll be more careful.
I just thought the DHHS study said that only 39 women died of illegal abortions a year—after the advent of pennicillin—and more than that die today because of legal abortions each year I thought. I mistakenly thought you knew that, and were just using hyperbole. I was just putting that smiley face up there to say, "Hey! I get the joke. They happened all the time." I didn't know it would make you mad, honestly I didn't. You are the first person I have ever found who actually knew someone personally who died having an illegal abortion, or even knew the name of anyone who had—and I have asked hundreds of people because I started hearing how common it was back in the 1970s. I am sorry for your friend. I firmly expected your answer to be, "No."
I just figured the historical data being that about 100,000 died during all Inquistions put together and half of those in the Spanish one—which was a state affair not a Church affair—and the vast majority of the deaths were men and that women rarely owned any property back then that it is impossible for millions of women to have been killed. I didn't know you were serious. That's why I put the smiley thing up there. I thought it was like, you know, "I've had millions of girlfriends." I was laughing along with the exaggeration.
I only commented on this Hub in the first place because I thought it was expressed in a very hateful tone but sprinkled here and there with phrases like "thinking positive" and "let's all be friends." I kinda figured he should have just said, "I hate anybody foolish enough to believe in God," and saved us having to read between the lines. I was shocked that nobody but me thought to stand up and say, "Hey. You shouldn't be so snide about people's personal beliefs." But I guess his Hub was really nice and friendly and my response—which I read over 3 times before sending it because I wanted to make sure I was not making an Ad Hominem attack on the author by keeping my focus on the issue of the Truth—was expressed in a hateful tone. I never meant to express hatred toward CWB or anybody else. And I am truly sorry.
It's been going on forever agvlupes. As long as there are people who want to twist everything to suit their own agenda, regardless of the facts, it will continue.
Well James, it seems you just love to go around looking to pick a fight. How ironic. You won’t get one from me. This will be my first and only response to what I consider a deliberate attempt to provoke hostility, which is the very thing this essay was written in opposition to.
You may assume anything you like. There’s a rather comical monologue I heard somewhere regarding assumptions. Perhaps you know of it?
I’m aware from your comments on other hubs that you are particularly fanatical regarding the pro-life/pro-choice debate. I personally don’t feel that I have the right or wisdom to dictate the rules about such decisions. You obviously have no such reservations.
Suffice it to say I think that anyone sufficiently aware of the sanctity of life would take appropriate steps to avoid inadvertently producing it.
Abstinence is a quaintly admirable concept but it’s completely delusional to insist that it will work for everyone or even a substantial minority.
Survival of the species is the most elemental force driving all living things and sex is the most elemental aspect of that force.
Do you also consider contraception murder?
I‘m not surprised that you chose one of my “quotes” while disregarding another. I wonder why you ignore this, “OK, you believe that and I’ll believe this, now let’s get to work and build a better world together.”
I wasn’t quoting anyone in particular as you are perfectly well aware. Quotation marks are often used merely as a device to indicate someone, anyone, is speaking. This would apply even to a generic, fictitious conversation.
Your method of debate or rebuttal, while quite eloquent, is the typically insidious style of the manipulator. You pick what suits your purpose and interpret everything in a way which forces it to fit your pre-conceived notions. You start from your own conclusions, with the results you want already determined and twist the data to make them fit. It’s very similar to the way zealots interpret religious texts or war mongering politicians pick intelligence data, select what works for them and ignore what doesn’t.
You may, of course, distort and denigrate my sense of humor as much as you like. You may also draw any conclusions you wish regarding what I think or believe. I assure you that I respect your privilege to be as incorrect as you are arrogant.
You are the very prototype I had in mind for the attitude the essay is about. Thank you for your help in making my point.
In spite of the fact that I focus repeatedly on my belief that we should all absolutely be entitled to our own beliefs, that we should be able to work together regardless, you make it your mission to attack me in what I consider a very hostile manner in an effort to negate my call for cooperation. You leap in immediately with an offensive attitude despite the fact that I’m attempting to promote a conciliatory one.
I point out the core weakness in both the religious and scientific view and emphasize repeatedly that conflicts over such simple differences of opinion are completely pointless and counterproductive.
Your comment goes a long way toward helping me demonstrate the veracity of my opinion. It has provoked me to waste my time responding to a negative, hostile and confrontational rant.
Nowhere do I state that I believe in nothing. What I state, repeatedly, is that it shouldn’t matter what I, or you, or anyone believe. You, very obviously, feel that this is incorrect and that if everyone would just come around to your christian point of view everything would be just fine. Believe what you like. Others will believe differently. Get over it.
Despite your insulting attitude, your slanderous comparisons to Stalin, Mao and Hitler and your obvious fundamentalist position, I will not delete your comment. You are free to believe what you like and I am free to disagree. And that’s the point. We can agree to disagree.
Your assumption, there you go assuming again, that I believe my view is the only valid one is absurd on its face since the entire essay says exactly the opposite; everyone’s view is valid and that’s the whole point.
The purpose of the composition was to make clear my belief that the constant hostility and prejudice of people like yourself, who are convinced their truth is the only truth, contribute significantly to keeping the world in continuous conflict.
In fact, having read a number of your comments elsewhere, it would seem that this is your primary objective here; to interject hostility and adversity into any discussion that doesn’t conform to your personal vision of global christian theocracy.
However erudite you may be, however glib or elegant your delivery, you cannot conceal the fact that your agenda is a very fundamentalist one. Your statement regarding Muslims is blatantly racist.
Although I respect your right to be as obnoxious as you wish in your comments, I reserve my right to ignore them and will most likely do so in future should you elect to continue your adversarial campaign. I do not enjoy such exchanges and prefer not to participate in such base confrontations. They serve no useful purpose.
I will however leave your comments in place, unless they become grotesquely hostile, as a shining example of the very attitude that leads me to despair of any hope that people will ever get over themselves and start acting with a bit of humility instead of like bloviating, posturing, self-righteous bigots.
I have no wish to single out Christianity. I’ve clearly indicated that, in my opinion, there’s that word again, take note of it since you didn’t before, the abuse of all religion and science will be equally responsible for our demise. Not any one religion in particular or any one branch of science. Nevertheless, here’s a minute sample of some of the good works of Christianity. I’m sure equally obscene statistics can be produced for a number of other “religions” and non-religious belief systems. That’s the whole point. In war over belief everyone loses. No war should ever be fought, least of all a war that cannot be won.
After 6/3/1098 Antiochia (then Turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/1098 100,000 Turks (incl. women and children) killed.
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.
Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children). In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude."
The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished."
In more recent times the Catholic Spanish Conquistadors were followed by the British Puritanical Christians in the virtual extermination of the native populations of South, Central and North America.
Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practicing Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!
In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar –
In Rwanda in 1994 Catholic priests and nuns were involved in the massacre and not as victims.
And as you already know pgrundy, your thoughts are always appreciated. It might have something to do with the fact that they're rational and based upon independent thought!
Thanks trooper22. What can I say? I have a warped sense of humor.
Wrong hub to walk into stoned. Which is a good thing. The hub I mean. You know what I mean. I'l be back tomorrow in a more coherent condition. Pretend I wasn't here.
CWB I agree with your views on the role religon has played in history as you recall here.however science as practiced in history has it's faults as well,when it comes to government and military secrecy.If we taught children learning science more about the morality of using science in a, more respectful manor towards human health,human rights and environmental issues as well as corporate responsability the world would be less likely to breakdown ecologically and conflict between science an religion concerning creation of the universe and it's relationship to the earth would not be so contentious as it is,with some individuals on both sides of the issue.Science and religion have wrongheaded ideas. I think if given enough time both sides would eventually come together in their points of view on creation.
In short too many people in positions of power in science and religion are moral or social misfits.All They care about is themselves and money.Some could care less what happens to the rest of the world or even their neighbors at home.It's a sad state of affairs as you know.
sober at this moment. Still a good hub.
consider your first request honored goldentoad and thanks for your second comment.
someonewhoknows, didn't you see this line? "As we debate needlessly, we pave the way to a world slave-state for which the abuse of religion and science will be equally responsible."
I thought I had given just about equal time to both camps. As I'm sure is clear to all by my statements I am rather more impressed by science than religion. That does not mean however that I'm unaware of the serious shortcomings of our technological addictions.
If I wasn't clear in stating that I think both science and religion have serious negative impacts then mea culpa.
Coldwar, it's dreadful what people do in the name of a little belief called religion. Everything over time gets twisted from it's orginal intent. For example, when St. Francis came back from the crusades he rejected the ruthlessness of the church during his time and created his own order as a revolt. An order based on love and peace not concentration camps for children. Just goes to show how systems are unreliable because they always become tainted by corruption somehow.
Sorry, wrong war. That would be the war in Perugia. Mybad, it's been years since I've read anything about him.
The saddest thing Writer Rider is that, in most cases, the teachings upon which these "religions" claim to be based are usually the philosophies of very peace loving, gentle and compassionate individuals. Those who lust for power and control take those teaching and twist them obscenely for their own purposes.
Ramen to that Richard. Let's get together :)
Ramen? Well, it's the sentiment that counts Misha.
Thanks.
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Ramen is pastafarian equivalent to amen :)
Lovely song, yet absolutely utopian - unfortunately :)
Dear James A Watkins
You said: "This statement of religion used to justify murder is interesting. I assume you are referring to Muslims because I don't know any Christians, Buddhists, Hindus or Jews who use religion to justify murder. But you use the blanket term "Religion." "
Muslims and Hindus freely murdered and raped each other during the break up of what had been British controlled India in the late 1940's. Ghandi stopped it with his hunger strike.
Adolf Hitler was a religious man, spiritual and occult-oriented, but religious in his belief that God was one his side. And Stalin came close to proclaiming himself as a god. He was worshipped by his followers.
Christians in all parts of the world fight against non-believers and have for more than 1,500 years. Roland was fighting Islam in the mountains of modern-day Spain, not for freedom, but for religion. The crusades were holy wars, jihads, and both Muslim and Christian fought each other over religion. The jihads were religious wars. Here in Spain our people fought each other over religion and also over freedom from religion. Do not preach to us that somehow one religious group or another is free from hatred and war with other religious groups.
Name a religion and most likely they have started a war somehwere, sometime. Major religions have fought many aggressive wars against the infidels of other faiths.
I find you lack of historical understanding most uncomfortable and yet quite typical in these modern times when learning is disdained unless it is religiously oriented and biased to a person's own faith. Modern day fanatical Christians, Jews, Muslims and others have one thing in common: They love to hate others who donot follow their own strict rules. Even you showed your bias by assuming that somehow ColdWarBaby and others were only talking about Muslims, most of whom live in relative peace with each other and with other religious groups.
Oh, and do not Irish Catholics (Christians) and Irish Protestants (Christians) have a long history of hating, killing and raping each other? Even in the U.S. Iremember people who would not vote for Kennedy saying that he was a puppet of the Pope. Yes, they wer fundamentalist Protestant Christians saying that.
Love thy neighbor?
Bah!
I am not opposed to contraception. If I took your words out of context, I apologize. I tried not to, and I also attempted to ensure my response was not a priori. I printed your article and responded to what I saw from the top to the bottom. My post was not intended to be hostile toward you. If I have offended you, I apologize. At least I provided a prototype for you! :)
I do not want a global Christian theocracy. If I implied that; I truly misspoke. I will accept the appellation you bestowed upon me of "fundamentalist." I have seen every film and documentary about Rwanda and never heard that nuns and priests were murdering people there. I am not disputing you. But it is news to me.
The Crusades are complicated and they were atrocious. The Muslims had spread out from the Arabian desert slaughtering as they went in countless numbers, and when they threatened Anatolia (which was Christian land at the time); destroyed the Church built where Jesus was buried in Jerusalem (the most Holy place on earth for Christians at the time); and started killing pilgrims who peacefully walked all the way to the Holy Land (think what condition those people must have been in to walk that far!)—Europe responded with war. Of course, that was 1000 years ago nearly. TODAY, Muslims are the only people who publicly say they wish to slay the infidel. Today, in 2009. Not 1000 years ago. Big dif.
Anyway, thank you for allowing my comment. I'm a cold war baby, too.
IVAN— You surely are correct about those Irish. Muslims are the only people I am aware of today who wish to kill those of other beliefs. They say so all the time. And when they do, public opinion polls show that that vast majority of Muslims approve of it. What happened 1000 years ago is not the issue I was addressing. I was speaking of today. The Koran says to convert by the sword. Jesus says to convert with love. Not the same message. And I do love my neighbor. If I saw my neighbor about to walk out in front a truck and get killed and did not call out to him, what kind of neighbor would I be? One who minded my own business, to be sure. But not loving. Admonishment is an act of love.
It seems like about 80% of the discussions at HP are between aggressive contemporary Christians who seek to impose their views on others and revise history to their liking on one side, and people like me who are sick to death of having this stuff shoved in our faces over and over again on the other side.
What part of 'no thanks' don't you folks understand?
What ever happened to shaking the dust off your sandals and moving on to the next village?
I'm just saying.
I didn't know your only interest was in preaching to the choir. I thought the Hubs were places for the exchange of ideas. Consider them shook.
Thanks for that clarification Misha!
I seem to have stumbled into the forums here...
Ivan, thanks once again for joining the fray, although I actually had no intention of starting one. I guess my sarcastic sense of humor and cynicism affects some people in ways unintended.
Regarding your observation on the selective learning of history, it's spot on. It applies to nationalism at least as much as religion.
As I'm sure you're aware, there are huge amounts of American history simply left out of what we're taught.
Much of what is disclosed is spun in such a way as to always glorify the invaders who came here and took the land by genocide.
History, as they say, is written by the "winners". No reason that shouldn't apply to religious conquest as well I suppose.
The part they don't understand pgrundy is the "no thanks" part. Kind of like the Borg. Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated. You WILL comply.
I don't like to close the door on anyone but sometimes there just isn't any alternative. With some it's not enough to just close it. You have to lock it, bar it and nail it shut.
"To move, to breathe, to eat, even simply to exist means to constantly destroy life. The universe does not care. It is exquisitely indifferent and can exist quite nicely without it"
Oh so true. I like the alien take, it's very plausible, if not the straight truth.
But I don't see myself as alive or dead, I see myself as a mass in the strings and vibrations that are this universe.
"Religion is the highest form of apathy, science the highest conceit."
Such a powerful statement, it sums it up well. Religion is for those who want to care where they came from and why they're here, science too often becomes muddled in bigotry and closed mindedness.
In Lightspeed,
lxxy
Life is energy Ixxy. Perhaps the highest form. Perhaps the lowest.
It's energy that's aware of itself.
I've always wondered if we really need these bodies to retain that awareness.
Yes, history is usually written by the conquerors, but remembered by the conquered. Witness Ireland, where a wonderful oral tradition carried on the unwritten side of the terrible events that occurred there over the centuries. Also Native Americans or First People with vivid recollections passed down from one generation tothe next. If you hear a legend teller today you would swear that person actually witnessed events their grandparents and great-grandparents actually saw with their eyes.
I do agree with James in one thing and that is that openly and in a religious sense the fanatic followers of certain self-proclaimed Islamic leaders do call for death to infidels. However, from what I have read of the Islamic religion is does not actually call for death or conversion. In the past tolerence was practiced widely in the Islamic world, and still continues to be so in many places where Christians, Jews, Buddhists and others live side-by-side with majority Muslim populations. Here is Spain in our so-called Golden Age before Ferdinand and Isabella this nation was nominally Islamic, but most of the people wer CHristians. Jews and Christians lived side-by-side in peace with their Islamic rulers. The only thing forbidden to Christians were the ringing of bells. Other than that they had vibrant, relatively free communities and close interactions between faiths. All that ended in 1492 when Ferdinand and Isabella conquered the last of the Islamic kingdoms in Granada.
But I also have seen some fanatical Christians calling for conversion or death, for military action to be used against "our enemies", and if America is the Christian nation many religious hubbers seem to indicate, then are we also carrying out religious wars around the world? Some fanatical Christian groups here in Spain want to wage holy war against Islam. Why, I don't know. They just say God wants to cleanse the world of the unfaithful. It's an odd way of looking at things, I must say!
To me it makes little difference if I am killed by a religious fanatic of whatever stripe, or a fanatical nationalist or just a bully and brute who has the power to take my life. Dead is dead, no matter the "justification" behind it.
I'm not anti-Christian any more than I am anti-Muslim or anti-Jewish. I am just indifferent to religion because it really means nothing to me. I mean no disrespect in that regard and I applaud people who have found their comfort in the peaceful words of their holy books and traditions. For me, however, I remain unconvinced that anything any holy book has to say has the power of a god or gods behind it.
As far as the universe and where it began, I read a lot of various scientific ideas on the subject. Apparently current thinking is that the Universe regularly expands and contracts like a yo-yo, going from all we know now until it collapses into a singularity, which eventually becomes unstable and explodes into another big bang, so on and so forth. Since energy is never wasted, and since mass is actually likened to energy condensed, the cycle need no outside input. It is one of those things people who study this claim just keeps going, from one extreme tothe other, like a perpetually bouncing ball that neither slows down nor loses energy as it falls and climbs.
Of course that is just current thinking, and there is no way to prove it, but from modern physics and observations of the Universe, more and more evidence is being gathered that supports this idea. Perhaps one day it will be elevated into the realm of scientific theory. But that's a whole other hub!
So many opinions in this world. It's a good thing there is real truth available. And you make a good point, why fight over opinions? Of course, some might say that just to distract others from seeking what is true.
cwb
it appears to me that you are a passive aggressive and choose to fight while waving the I don't fight flag.
I have never heard of the rule, only life is sacred.
The universe and its creation has no bearing on our day to day living. People are just refined animals that are earth trained, much like house training a puppy.
As animals are to humans, as tic-tac-doe is to three dimensional tic-tac-doe. The game has the same basis as the 3D version, it is just more complicated. Humans have the same natural instincts as animals but they have more creativity and have sought to provide answers to their existence. They can't prove their answers and they create faith to hide behind their lack of answers.
So opinion duck what your saying is that consciousness is in every living thing ,more in some than others,so who is to say that their arn't beings with a consciousness much higher than ours
Yes Ivan. The real history can be found. You just have to dig for it a lot.
I think, with a little research, you can find the call for death or conversion from just about any religion in history.
During the Bush years we had a few far right nut jobs calling for the exterminations of Islam. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson come to mind. They actually suggested that preemptive nuclear strikes would be appropriate action to eliminate the enemies of christianity.
I would be indifferent to religion myself if it weren’t such a powerful force for manipulation of large populations.
The most recent info I’ve read regarding the universe is that it’s actually not only expanding but accelerating. They now seem to think that everything will just keep getting farther apart until there is no more attraction to keep it together. Entropy. Heat death. No collapse with a new singularity.
I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.
Thanks for the comment BartCougy.
Let everyone seek the truth in their own way.
The truth I'm concerned with is what's going on right now on the ground.
Oppression, poverty, starvation, war, the outright rape of Earth.
I think it would behoove us all to forget about our petty differences of opinion and start paying a little more attention to reality.
Well duck, I never heard of tic-tac-doe but I hope you enjoy playing it.
ColdWarBaby, as you know one of the things that really upsets me is when people worry about their own survival more than the survival of the many species found on the Earth. I have to ask myself, though, what gives Human Beings the right to survive? Are we really that special that the Universe would be a poorer place without us? As you have said in so many words, the Universe would not miss us at all.
In the end we are like bacteria - we keep reproducing and over-whelming our current resources, and then we die out. Human beings may (arguably) be the highest intellectual life form so far created on Earth, but so once were the dinosaurs. In their time they were thr rulers of the planet and look at what became of them!
So by what right do we perceive ourselves worthy of survival? I look around and see none more apparent than merely the urge to survive, which is then counterbalanced by our greed, avarice, war, hatred, willingness to kill over petty issues and other foul qualities which again beg the question, why should we survive at all?
Perhaps only by transcending our baser natures and utilizing our intellect for good can we make any argument at all in our own favor. But I doubt most of us would win that aergument! (You and I aside, that is!)
And the dinos lasted millions of years Ivan, compared to a mere few hundred thousand for us.
We are so arrogant.
You sum it up quite nicely in your last paragraph (aside from that little attempt at humor). And perhaps that's what makes humans a bit unique.
We're a very negative force at this stage but we are capable of transcending that negativity. I don't think that gives us any claims or privileges but it does give us opportunity.
The question is, are we up to the challenge?
Wow, I couldn't read all the comments and stopped at what James was saying about killing babies. May I remind you dear James that it says to kill them in your book called the Bible! Get over it man!
ColdWarBaby, this is right on. If God or Science or the Flying Spaghetti Monster wanted everything to be the same they would have made everything the same--doncha think!? It is all differnt and that is the way it works--simply that. Now lets get on with life and please lets be into taking care of the planet we live on because when we kill that we kill ourselves.
The question is why were all the animals and the plants and insects made first way before we were? They certainly did alright on their own for milenium. Then we came along and guess what--we destroy it!
I'm in complete agreement Lady Guinevere.
We must stop fighting nature and regain our understanding of it. It is not ours to exploit without restraint.
We are meant to be stewards of Earth, not destroyers.
Take care of Gaia and each other.
In my humble opinion, that's why we're here.
Thank you.
CWB
Are you trying to be insulting or are you dumb?
Or is it both!
Absolutely OD!
wow you got a lot of comments I couldn't read them all. Or I am just lazy. LOL. Well I know we have an understanding about life and we hate the same things and know what is really important, we dream of the "utopian" place where we can just be happy in peace and watch our kids grow without fear of total annihilation at any given moment etc...
And yet the religion based thought has been the same as yours for as long as we can remember. Read Habakkuk in the OT. I suggest it because the "feeling" is a real emotion from whomever wrote it. Makes me think.
I do also believe, actually I am quite sure that ( sorry if I sound like a bible thumper pushin views and such, not my intention) but a recurring theme is to not argueing over matters of doubt. It's a saying that means a lot to me because just like you, listening to the back and forth about creation and evolution and science and this and that blah, blah, blah is so mindless and redundant and no one know for sure so pick something and work together for peace instead of against it.
I am with ya CWB, have been since I requested ya ;)
It's not "religion" based thought that jibes with mine sandra, it's the thoughts of people upon which "religions" have been built.
Those who inspired religions had no particular intention of doing so. They were merely trying to unite people in love and harmony.
Organized "religion", without exception, has perverted their message for an agenda of control and exploitation.
That's exactly the point of the story I suggested you read. :)
OK sandra. I found it online and I'll be reading it soon. It's easier to find passages online sometimes than it is in the book.
Coldwaterbaby:
we are an infant species of life on this planet. The evolved anomaly: consciousness has made us aware of our mortality. Death frightens us. We understand "eternity!"
Man, arrogantly considers his life to be of greater value than say, the life of a dung beetle, when in truth there is a time for all and a purpose , but in passing all return to the cosmic elements from which all were created. In a few billion years all that created life will have passed and "...no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should." Desiderata
Monotheism has, historically, fragmented humanity like no other human concept. It is a primitive concept which appeals to the lesser evolved of the human species. Since they subsist as a majority, it is likely that they will be the perpetrators of a massive, necessary, nuclear reduction in human population. For those who survive, genetic mutations will metamorphose the human into creatures science fiction cannot create.
It will be an example of evolution in full blossom.
Qwark
That's not an invalid hypothesis qwark.
I often wonder if it's time for the next great evolutionary transition. They are always preceded by massive extinction events.
I agree completely with your assessment of monotheism. Whether it will produce the nuclear apocalypse you describe remains to be seen. Given the fact that Israel has a substantial nuclear arsenal it's certainly within the realm of possibility.
Human population will almost double in another 30 - 50 yrs. Human deprivation will follow suit. The rewards promised by monotheism appeals to the ignorant, suffering masses. A blissful life In "heaven" is enticing to those dying of hunger and living in squalor. They will be easily led...and led they will be.
Qwark
All the people who seem to think that the population wil grow exponentially in the next 30-50 years have not done their homeowrk. They are only looking at one side of the equation. Look at al the deaths tht have and are occuring in the world and see the whle equation. It is an ebb and flow and has been since time began-did time begin or was it always here and will it always be here.....
qwark.
It's quite possible that you're correct. I simply don't profess quite the same degree of certainty you seem to exhibit.
Ironically, it seems almost religious in its conviction.
I suppose I am similarly zealous in my opposition to capitalism.
In any case, regardless of the precise causalities, it seems very likely that human extinction will come sooner rather than later.
Lady G.
Although the increase may not be as much or as fast as some predict, the overall total population has been increasing steadily for a long time.
Earth is in fact already beyond the comfort zone in carrying capacity. For the modern, "non-negotiable" life style of amerikans, that capacity is around two billion. We are already at more than six billion.
We must make drastic changes in the way we live, educate the world to the need for planned population control or prepare for a very horrendous population crash.
Any time an animal population exceeds the carrying capacity of its environment, for whatever reason, the result is a drastically rapid reduction.
The primary means is usually starvation.
We can already see this happening today.
This is not a pretty picture.
That would be true only if we were not in the bubbles of cities. There are vast amounts of areas not populated at all.
And so they should remain Lady G.
It is not our right, nor should it be our desire, to cover every square inch of Earth with humans.
Hi CWB,
I'm a little late visiting, and I can see things have been lively. As always, you have expressed a difficult argument succinctly and eloquently. Inevitably there are comments from all viewpoints, and that's to be expected.
Accidental intelligent design? It's possible. Or maybe we are all just a part of the dream-time, and when the dreamer awakes we'll all disappear like so much star-dust. I don't have a great deal of time for heavy-duty Christianity, although I love some of Christ's teachings, and would like to see everyone treating each other better. Love thy neighbour sounds good to me.
Thanks Amanda. Always glad to hear from you regardless of when.
There are just so many possibilities aren't there? How can anyone be content to just give up thinking about them all?
I have to say, not necessarily being critical, that there is a world of difference between the teachings of Jesus and christianinty.
Coldwarbaby...Ty for your response..if you mean by "religious," relating or devoted to an acknowledged ultimate reality," I would reply absolutely not. My response in reference to the potential future of "man," is based soley upon reasonably thought out premises based upon man's basic genetic propensity as earths prime predator and it's history. As human population increases, religious fervor will follow suit. The history of monotheism is rife with death and destruction. The only reason more people werent killed or maimed during the 1000 yrs of the dark ages is twofold: 1. there were fewer human beings, 2. today's weaponry was not available. Monotheistic dedication to it's mythical creator and to it's receipt of alledged gifts in the afterlife, becomes fanatically immutable to the believer. In my "real" world, supernatural deities are just imagined.
Qwark
This is an interesting and intriguing hub it seems as though you have hatred on both sides of the fence Christians/scientists!
Please do not find insult however it is also beliefs like this that makes the possibility of our world diminishing!
Maybe you should read:
Your claim that man is the prime predator of Earth is patently incorrect qwark.
Homo sapiens is neither a predator by nature or design but rather by artifice. No successful predator would ever be capable of causing such irreparable damage to its environment.
The human race, I regret to opine, is nothing more than a failed evolutionary experiment.
As to the rest of your statement, it is not without merit.
Thank you for your comment mdawson.
You’re more or less correct about the divide between religion and science but I think I would have to say that most of the hatred, when it gets that extreme, comes from the religious fundamentalist side.
The entire point of the essay was simply to say that the divisiveness is unnecessary. We can all have our own beliefs as long as we forgo the arrogance of attempting to force them on everyone else.
I have read your hub as you requested and can only say, while meaning no offense, it is largely meaningless to me. Nevertheless, I am not offended by it and I respect your point of view.
If you have such dreams and visions, perhaps you should join the clergy. Perhaps they and you might be welcomed there.
earnestshub says:
7 months ago
I find this to be a pretty well balanced view of the human condition and it's outcomes. Well done!