The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing: The Controversy
73Was the '7 Lies of Network Marketing' Too Hard on the 'Old School' MLM Leadership?
The network marketing industry and some high-income uplines are ticked off at Ann Sieg for her recent books.
Sieg is now famous for her books, The Renegade Network Marketer and The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing
Many feel she's made a tremendous contribution, but others are down right mad.
Are they upset because they feel their incomes are threatened as people move to the new 'Attraction' model of network marketing, which is completely unfamilar territory for them?
Ann Sieg proposes to ditch the hotel meetings and names lists and to learn how to start attracting their prospects to them to build their MLM.
Less people will go to the old-school upline's trainings on 'how to prospect friends and family' ... and less people are buying their CD's on 'how to develop the belief system' necessary to do so.
Many of the growing leaders in their downlines, who once spent hundreds or thousands of dollars per year on old-school tools, are now seeking Internet Attraction Marketing Training instead.
Should They Be Mad?
Is Their Reaction Warrented?
Did Ann Sieg cross the line somehow?
Was it unfair to criticize old-school MLM tactics?
Is it unethical in some way to highlight the negative side of old-school MLM to promote her Renegade e-book and its solutions with the new model?
We'll talk about this here in a 'discussion series' over the next several weeks.
Let us know how you feel by leaving your comments below.
Click here if you're not familiar with Sieg's report, The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing.
Control-based Leadership Vs. Empowering Leadership...
There is a movement underway right now that is being headed up by some of the highest paid uplines around... they want to silence Ann Sieg... they are trying to influence the big networking companies to threaten to take away your associate position if you promote Ann Sieg's materials (and other materials that don't praise them) on your blog or web site...
This is highly unlikely as it violates 1st amendment rights and is reminiscent of Nazi Germany ...
Regardless, the hostility of this 'angry crusade' highlights the painful reality some uplines are experiencing as they watch times change. Their position as the 'guru' is slipping away.
I spent several hours today engaged in an eye-opening email exchange with one of the 'frightened uplines' who is in the $50,000+ per month range (or was). I don't think he works much anymore, but he does do an occasional 'training' where he gets pretty worked up... teaching why we should 'make' people buy our products even if they don't want to because they need it (he really teaches this... I was at his training last summer).
His Beef with Ann Sieg...
His argument is that Ann Sieg focuses too much on the negatives of the 'old school' model when she's sharing how people can Attract Prospects to Them instead.
Now I have known this wealthy upline for quite a long time. I attended his 'trainings' and purchased many of his CDs and tapes over the course of 12 years... teaching the old model of 'chase 'em down' marketing.
What I find interesting about his argument is that he, more than anyone I personally know, used a similar "negative-marketing" stragegy to motivate us to buy his stuff, and to sell our company's products.
Negative marketing isn't uncommon. Most (if not all) industries use it as a part of their strategy.
If you're with a network marketing company, chances are you have seen plenty of negative marketing in your company's DVD's, CDs and at your events.
Negative Vs. Positively Charged Marketing...
As you go down the path of Internet attraction marketing (using the Internet to attract prospects into your business) you'll discover that some marketers use 'negatively charged' messages while others choose to focus their marketing on a 'positive message.'
Famous motivational speaker, Tony Robbins, shared an observation about human behavior that helps us understand why marketers do this.
He talked about the two things that drive human behavior in every decision we make... he called this 'pain vs. pleasure.'
Robbins made a strong case for the Pain Vs. Pleasure Theory...
Robbins said that every action a person takes (from eating a 2nd peice of cake, to smoking, or buying a car) can be explained by whether or not the person perceives the action or decision will cause pain or give pleasure.
People avoid pain and do what is pleasurable.... it's pretty straight-forward, but it's important to hold this in the front of your mind when you're marketing something... even if that includes "how to get your kids to brush their teeth and go to bed without a fuss."
Avoiding Pain is the Stronger Drive...
What's interesting is that avoiding pain is a stronger drive in human behavior than wanting more pleasure.
This explains why many marketers focus on a negative message before offering the solution... because marketers know that people are more 'moved' by their drive to avoid pain than by getting something pleasurable or rewarding.
This is why I explained to my 6-year-old what bacteria can do to her gums... and how they can make a mouth look really ugly if she doesn't brush her teeth.
But is Negative Marketing Harmful?
I don't think I harmed my daughter by getting her to start thinking about what those bacteria will do if she doesn't brush her teeth.
Because hey, if I didn't think about those bacteria I would NEVER floss. Would you floss if you didn't know your teeth might fall out if you don't?
It seems there are times to use negative marketing to motivate... but are there times marketers cross the line? I think 'yes.'
But where is that line?
In business and sales, you will find that marketers approach their strategy in one or both of these 2 ways:
- Focusing first on a person's pain so they can then offer a solution, vs.
- Focusing on what a person wants right away and then offering the 'best' solution.
Some people feel it is harmful to use negative marketing, and in some cases I agree with them. As with all things, there is a balance and a tact.
How Negative Marketing is Commonly Used...
The Wellness Industry
In the wellness or nutritional industry you'll often see negative marketing used on brochures, DVDs or in seminars to shock people into seeing that the modern health care system can be dangerous.
Here are just some examples of negative-focused marketing used in the Wellness industry:
- Health Care is the 4th leading cause of death in the U.S
- Cancer rates are rising
- Over use of vaccination and use of antibiotics are causing permanent illness and death in children
- Showing a picture of a person's 'abused' colon to make the case for using a cleansing product
- Discussing all the toxins in the air that are harming your cells to then make the case for taking supplements
- Hormones in our food is causing pre-mature puberty in kids
- Doctors are over-prescribing medications because they get kick backs from the drug companies
- Your food is harming you... you must supplement!
You get the idea.
Now here are some examples of a positive message the Wellness industry may use in marketing:
- Feel better
- Have more energy
- Sleep better and wake up feeling refreshed
- Live a longer and healthier life
- Be lean and fit
- Have beautiful glowing skin
- Have stronger nails
- Have more endurance (sports products)
- Feel and look younger
Which List Hits You Harder?
If you look over those two lists you'll see right away WHY marketers often focus on people's pain first... or why they might focus on the negative things people would want to avoid before offering the solution.
The first list above grabs your attention and makes you think 'maybe I better do something.' Then, the solution is presented and you act!
Is this wrong to do?
Is it unethical or harmful to focus on the problems (negative aspects) first before offering a solution?
This will be the subject of our next article.
In the next article we'll be discussing a subject that has created an emotionally charged debate in the network marketing industry.
Ann Sieg and Her 'The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing' E-book
Coming Up Next...
In the next article, we'll discuss how Ann Sieg has used a "negative-focused" marketing approach much like we've seen marketers and companies do in the wellness industry, and other industries.
We'll discuss the ethics of this approach.
Is it harmful?
Where should we draw the line?
We'll also discuss why Ann Sieg has created such a controversy in the MLM industry, particularly from high income earning uplines.
Join in the discussion or let us hear your opinion. Share your comments with us below.
Become a member here at Hub Pages, and then become a fan so you can follow this discussion. You'll be notified when the next article is available.
I actually agree with you on this. There are quite a few of them learning new skills and changing with the times. In fact, my friend Bob Anderson who is a six-figure income earner for years has made the switch 100%...
I think it's those who have gotten really used to not having to learn new skills that are feeling uncomfortable by all this. I don't mean that in a hurtful way... it's just human nature to resist change. The bottom line, it's going to happen!
I was signing in to publish my first hub when marketingmerge caught my eye. People will be leaving old school network marketing companies in droves if they don't join the 21st century. The more they try to contain us the more we will resist. The whole idea is to be an independent business owner. The secret of the rich is leverage and the biggest tool available to all of us for leverage is the internet.
Well Said, Coach!
Thanks for this. It has amazed me that so many of the 'gurus' of network marketing seem to make most of their money from the training they give (in person, CDs DVDs etc) rather than from their primary MLM business. At least it seems so if you consider the cost of the info they provide. And so many of their 'free' trainings are thinly veiled plugs for their 'system'.
Since DVD/CD production costs are so low now, it would seem to me to be more sense for them to 'give' them away. Now I know that we tend not to value that which costs us nothing.
So how about a system where Information is provided at 'cost' with an undertaking that a receiver would pay more when they have achieved levels of success which the training says it will enable one to achieve? To my way of thinking, I'd attach a lot more credibility to this type of training! This might be so far out that no-one would ever consider it - but it's what I'd like to do when I reach the level of financial success I'm told can be mine!
I've actually been a little fearful that my upline is going to get wind that I'm in Renegade U. and try to shut me down. Now that's a helluva note, isn't it. I could potentially make THEM a ton of money by MORE EFFECTIVELY recruiting prospects. Cheers to you Mike. I'm in this 100%.
Hi Craig,
That is an amazing situation isn't it. It's such a striking example of the two styles of leadership -- do it my way or its the highway (very disempowering), or "find your way and I'll support you the best I can in that process" - (empowering).
Ann said it best to me once - the change is going to happen at the grass roots level... it certainly is!
Mike,
You're right on. If the old school mlm system worked, more than 3% of mlm'ers would be successful. I can't endorse anything with a 97% failure rate with a clear conscience.
It seems to me those old schooler's have ego problems. They probably pad their self esteem by succeeding in a field where few are successful. If the numbers of successful mlm'ers increase, they aren't so special anymore, huh?
And one more though. Change is never embraced by the established old school! So you can interpret the resistance as going down the right path. Keep fighting the good fight!
Pam
If more network marketers learn attraction marketing the uplines will stand to make more income! It's hard to understand how they could oppose that. Change and fear of loss are always a bit uncomfortable due to the unknown. Personally, my upline has not been the most supportive since I've been a "renegade".
The old methods of network marketing were not very empowering to build a sustainable business using the principles of niche marketing, providing value and good service, etc.. This is probably why the majority of networkers fail miserably. In my own experience, once I ran out of warm market all my upline could say were things like "put a new picture on your dream board", "do daily affirmations". The "How to" was missing. All the things we've learned make so much sense.
I now can leave my house without feeling the pressure of prospecting in grocery stores, while being on vacation, etc. My family is happy about that, especially my teenage daughter! Though not as much as I am. : )
Dianne
Hi Mike,
I just introduced my top upline leader to The Renegade University and to The Renegade Network Marketer on Monday. He was very interested as he had tried internet marketing before and had mixed results. He is a very successful networker in my current company using the old school methods so, he was turned off by the negativity of the 7 Great Lies ebook. I partially agreed with him and feel much of the material could be presented with less old school bashing but I really agreed with the frustration Ann was giving voice to in terms of my own experiences.
I emphasized the real gold of the marketing information and the inherent truths therein and he is very willing to learn about it and perhaps recommend it to the troops. My upline understands that network marketing is a number's game and he's all for finding ways to win that game for our entire team.
So, some uplines will, some won't, so what? How's that for a unique twist to our old school philosophy of playing the number's game! LOL
I say, if your upline doesn't support you or at least listen with an open mind and heart, it's time to find a different company and leader.
Lisa
Mike,
Change is always difficult even when it is for the better. Maybe the negative sounding title "7 Lies" is shocking - but let's face it, that's what makes people curious enough to check it out. When they do, you can almost hear the collective sigh of relief as they react, "That's exactly what I've been dealing with!"
What you have done for people like me and the people I work with has been nothing but positive. And bless Ann Sieg for being brave and smart enough to hold us all accountable as to how we conduct our businesses!
Barbara
Hi Mike,
I have been in network marketing off and on for 20 years and living in a small community have never had any real results. When I read Ann's ebook the 7 lies I could really relate to what she said.
What comes to mind about these gurus, the truth hurts especially when they have been dishing out lies for so many years. They have been making a ton of money all these years on lies and now Ann comes along and she is saying "hey these guys are lying to you" they are scared that they're losing credibility. With more and more people turning to attraction marketing they are probably even losing downline members because of it. I'd have to say the only smart thing for them to do is suck up there pride and get on the bandwagon before they get left behind.
I'm in 100%!
Thanks Mike,
John Enns
Hello Mike,
Looks like you have stirred up a hornets nest. If your not rattling someones cage your are not making progress it seems. Stay the course Mike. I have enjoyed everything you have put together and I have made several million dollars from MLM in the past 10 years the old way. I want to move with the times and make a lot more with more effective methods. Thanks again.. Regards Rod.
Hi Mike,
I'm in 100%. I'm glad that I came across your Renegade University because I believe in working smarter and not harder. I know how Ann Seig feels. I told my upline about Renegade University and she was skeptical at first. I just kept on going because I know I came across something that was true and is a break through for many. My up-line learned her upline made the transition from old school to new school now she is a little open with me. Maybe she will come along in the near future.
My upine too, who earns a huge cheque each month, plus he got a car bonus (that the company offers) plus free holidays.... argued with my partner and myself - stating that he does not believe that what we are doing is going to work. He still thinks that the 'old style' marketing is the ONLY way to go. In fact, I did a search on the internet, and my upline is nowhere to be found. My only question is HOW does he still manage to attract prospects to him .. and lots of them, believe me... by 'making' them join?
WOW - This IS a Hot topic with me!
I love the NM Model - but hate the old school approach and have spent way too much time and money on that song and dance routine. I totally support Ann and I really believe that the potential impact of internet technology methods have not even begun to impact the NM industry - but it will, and its going to bring the playing field where it belongs. All of this is still a personal choice, yet I'm blown away of how many people just don’t get it. I've had heated discussions with die hard traditionalists who bash anyone trying to do NM any other way.
Here is the Real Truth about the NM Industry - The whole thing is a money making opportunities from start to finish. From the moment you start thinking about getting in, While your in, and even AFTER you get out. Here's just a brief example: You are a target for money making opportunist who capitalize off your every move - especially if your a failure because they always have yet another system or coaching program just waiting for you to get sucked into.
Lets face it folks - even the big mouthed fancy coaches and seminar leaders make money off of your failure - If you were successful, you wouldn’t need them, so they string you along with hypnotic marketing techniques to keep you drooling for more - they never want your flame to got out. I believe the goal is to keep people stuck in the 97% failure area - product users and that’s all.
Here's my prediction - The hard working technology users will out produce any of the big mouth old fashioned meeting blabbers. The internet reaches a multitude of prospects while meetings attract only half of who said they would make it.
Right now - I'm using the internet for businesses that have people emailing me continually, not the other way around - I never have to prospect when they come looking for me!
Ann is one of the boldest people in the industry to do what she has done - but its still a choice, isn’t it - and your going to allow yourself to do only what fits you. The threat to the NM industry is in your head - between your ears. As long as you are compliant with respect to the product representation of your company there is no way they can remove you. We are all independent business people - so lets work our business and support Ann with what ever she produces.
The internet is an ever changing science – but the key is “Success Leaves Clues”, you just need to know where to look. Ann is helping you, she has the vision - Follow The Leader if you arent one already!
Finally free at last!
It is about time the truth came out at last.I really thought that someting was
actually wrong with me.It is time for the NM industry to be revolutionized with
new and innovative effective marketing.This is the #1 reason why 50% of
new recruits leave network marketing companies after just 90 days in these
companies.90% leave after 6 mos.or a year later.The old traditional played
out worn out marketing model is never going to work today.It's not 1988
or 1992.We are living in technology times.Not a time warp.LOL.....
The analogy of positive marketing vs negative marketing was great! I too like to focus on the positive. But creating negative headlines that intrigue people works!
I do agree that Ann's book exposes the negatives of the old school "prospecting and closing", "telling and selling" style. But It is all true for her and many others in the NM industry. Also I've spoken about it with some of those same family members I used to chase to become customers and reps and the reaction is amazing.
Apparently they thought that the old school, traditional ways were unprofessional, bothersome and tacky too. Which is why they wouldn't give me there business even though they were already consumers of the products I sell AND they would really save money with me! It's that funny?
So it's not just the NM who have converted to InterNetwork Marketers tat are happy, our friends and family who are now forever "off the hook" are excited too...
I had an in depth conversation with my father, who was never a fan of the old schools methods because it always seemed like you were begging for a hand out, and his main question was, :why didn't you do this sooner?"
I was on a training call a few weeks ago and my upline distinctly said, "if it looks different it is different, and in order for us to be successful as a team, we must ALL follow the same system."
There was acknowledgement that other systems "out there" that worked but we must move as a unit...blah, blah, blah...I just stopped getting on the calls.
I am so happy being part of Renegade University and meet such a fresh new line. Congratulation to Anna to tell her opinion so frankly. I think there are more who are glad to hear it than less. I have a lot of problem on business line, though maybe I am not just that type, but somewhowe I,ve dropped into it and it is a difficult way for me to get on, have lost a lot of money, was listening to everybody and I think it will be need a lot of energy to get on with it well.
Thank you to take part on debate.
Malika, this is a very good point. The new model diffuses a lot of the resistance we would run into previously--it's just evaporated in the new model.
In the old model I used to have DAILY morning 'mindset' conference calls to teach how to approach their cold call leads or friend and family with the right 'posture' so that the associate would 'feel' good about the process and create an environment whereby the prospect would feel attracted to the idea.
It was very hard to teach this and I know realize this was because the entire situation of approaching people to look at some information or buy something immediately and automatically turns people off... so it's an uphill battle (for your mindset and belief system) and for the sell.
In this new model, as you're talking about, it immediate removed that major pitfall completely, without 'working on changing beliefs' or learning how to 'posture oneself' with a prospects. This just happens automatically as you set things up so people initiate the connection with you (from visiting your blog, to joining your email list, or even contacting you first, which will happen a lot once all your marketing components are in place). This is what other businesses have known that the MLM industry had gotten away from. The Internet has really, for the first time, allowed the average person to use their network marketing business as a part of a REAL business model. Refreshing!
This has been a great discussion.... a lot of insightful posts!
The negatives need to be out there. I like the direction Ann is going. I have been looking for a way to grow my MLM without going to meetings and driving my freinds crazy if not running the other way.
The Old School way is dead but because there are still many old school uplines who are making substantial incomes, they perceive "change" as a threat to what they have built. It's understandable to a degree, they don't want anyone rocking the boat BUT, and this is a big BUT, ALL industries change and there is NOTHING you can do to stop that. Resisting change is ultimately futile and in the end by not adapting, you kill yourself in business. There's no other way... Network Marketing is growing up folks and for me personally, I say bring it on! The old ways stunk anyway....
I have never seen anything like this before. I have wasted some money and lots of time over the past three or nfour years.
I am just finishing Ann Sieg's Renegade Networkas far as I can see this is a classic edition that I will always refer to in the future.
Sincerly,
Jim Murphy Jr
Very nice job for an 8 day old page! Good luck and you really nailed a great spot on Google. Did you pay for that or did you just design a great page? Good luck to you and I will visit again!!!
Ann definitely crossed the line she went to far in her book. She should know better than to chastise what works and reinvent the wheel. What’s wrong with conformity, people follow leaders and leaders have to have sovereignty.
The cold fact about leadership is that you have to be ahead of the game. Ann has delivered the tool of reason and unleashed free thinking in the ranks of numerous down lines. The magnitude of business owners that were driving their business and bank accounts into oblivion are empowered to embrace ingenuity. The “leaders” that have been lounging on their loins have been broadsided and in fact are intimidated by the unknown. They can’t really convert without contradicting their philosophy, which only fuels the fires as they watch on the sidelines.
Ann’s book is the digital audio for the networking industry. Times have changed and they can lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Hi Jonica,
I noticed this page landed on the front page of Google, which is one of the things we actually teach how to do at Marketing Merge (with Renegade Professional training). Note, however, that in my experience it will be off and on Google's front page before it settles in.
This page here though really isn't for any direct marketing of anything--what I'd like to do is really bring some clarity to the controversy Ann Sieg's books started so that network marketers understand the emotional element at work when their uplines resist her message so fearfully.
There are many uplines who don't resist it... but there's a large number who are very uncomfortable by the success Ann has had in getting the word out about 'the new way' of marketing. We'll have a few more articles and some videos on this topic, not just to create a big frenzy here, but to (also) create more awareness for networkers who have had close relationships with uplines who are controlling in nature.
It's important that all network marketers realize they are in business for themselves. Nobody should be allowed to tell you what you can and cannot do in your business, particulary when it concerns sharing information or following a certain business strategy. These are the topics we really wanted to uncover here over the next few weeks.
Thanks everyone for sharing.
I've received a few more emails from some wealthy MLM uplines who oppose Sieg's strategies for marketing.
I'll spend a little time sharing their concerns here to really bring more clarity to all of this.
My personally feeling is that people's feelings have been hurt, perhaps more than them fearing losing their downlines, etc... I think some uplines just feel personally attacked.
Some people are more sensitive than others and this may be part of the negative reaction as well.
Yes Ann Sieg has opened a new arena for Network Marketing. Truth is that Networking as we did know it was a person to person event. Prehaps that is why we find companies and upline leaders not supporting Ann's theories. My personal business experience has all been in the sales of insurance products. Many direct sales companies have been successful but usually with very simple products, or products that just provide coverage on a limited basis.
My concern is will we be able to get that relationship built to successfully bring these propects, the new clicking friends, into our primary business opportunity. Of course, at this point in the Renegade University we haven't spent much time on marketing. I'm sure that will be a vitial part of our success. Can't hardly wait.
One more comment, can you see your company attempting to provide the training that Mike is offering. It wouldn't be pretty, I'm thinking.
So, it's onward and upward, let's show the industry what they have been missing.
MJ
Hi Mike, it's interesting to see top earners being so worried and giving you a thousand words. I can only imagine it's because the truth does indeed hurt. I can remember first reading the the 7 Great Lies and feeling so angry and cheated because I could relate to everything Ann wrote. What I don't understand is why this guy you have been exchanging emails with has a problem, because it can only help him, not harm him. My first reaction was to start doing business the new way as soon as I could. I think sometimes the saying is true..... you can't teach an old dog new tricks... no offense to older folk, I'm not so young myself.
keep up the excellent effort Mike, you have more people for you than against I'm sure
Everyone was just caught offguard.But if the top earners want a fight,they already lost it even before the bell gets ringing.When i read the Renegade Network marketer, i felt like i have just gotten to earth.I havent read an online marketing book with such simplicity. It was awesome,thats all i can say.
Interesting dialogue.
We use offline AND online marketing to promote our network marketing business. And it's working.
In my opinion, where people seem to go awry is in thinking it needs to be one or the other. It does not. all the top earners in our company do online and offline. Maybe I'm lucky this is the case, apparently this isn't the case in all companies...
I'm glad that we are discussing this. I am VERY careful what I tell my upline. I find that I get into arguments with one of them every time I attend a business training meeting.
What I see is this: a number of people who want to believe that because they achieved success using a particular model or process, this process is the highest value they offer us. In their mind it is something that is duplicatable. They are threatened by anyone who suggests that there might be more than One Way. If they admit there are other paths to success and other skill sets needed by new NMers, they admit they can't show others the way to make it. I'm sure I would be at a loss myself if my skills turned out to be "behind the times" and inadequate for training successful business recruits.
So, this is my approach: experiment, put Attraction Marketing and online marketing into practice, make it work for my business and my team, and lead by example.
Did Ann Sieg cross the line? I don't know--but I do know that if you are so bold and lead with a controversial and somewhat accusatory headline e.g. Lies it shouldn't shock us that some people feel that she has pointed a finger at them and screamed "Liars! You are liars!" Defensiveness should not be surprising in this situation.
Should Ann Sieg have "called the process" and noticed out loud that the Emperor has no clothes? Of course she should have. Moving on, I suggest we deal with defensiveness as compassionately as possible and keep on keeping on. Lead by example and reach out with our success to show others "how to".
I always look at things a little differently, I like to look from a higher standpoint.
I think what we se happening here, is what we see happening all over the world right now.
a paradigm shift.
In the old paradigm only few were in power, in the new paradigm power is shared equally, resources are shared equally and a consciousness of enough for everyone is being born.
When ever such a transformation takes places, a lot of resistance can be seen, because the old way does not yet know what the new way will look like, and it fears that it has to die.
Ann is serving as a catalyst.
She is doing all of us a huge service, by putting herself out there and speaking her truth.
And just to use the analogy of the caterpillar and the butterfly, Ann is the cocoon.
She enables us all to grow wings.
This is what I think.
Hi Mike
My dinosaur of an Upline tried to get me kicked out of our MLM accusing me of promoting another MLM biz, namely, the Renegade system! Clearly a case of not checking the facts before acting. Thankfully our Compliance Dept DID and recognised that I was promoting a Lead Generation System.
Now this all started when one of my downline decided to promote the 7 Lies e-book!
So my advice is to take care in how how you promote the Renegade system, recognise that many of the highly successful upline built their businesses before most folk even heard of the Internet!
And the best revenge to get back on an ignorant dinosaur is to use the Renegade system and build a big business!
Expect success!
Bob
You know when I came into NM, I believed my up-line. I fell for the hype, hook, line, and sinker. I bought all the books, tapes, attended meetings, I knew my fortune was in the next "Pep Rally". Well 4 years later, the car is not in my driveway and I am $25,000 in debt.
I have to take a look at what has happened over those past 4 years. I have been on and off my game, humilated, degraded, embarrised, shunned, made to feel small, ignored...... Now it seems to me I was in the process of regrouping to find the next sucker. I keep waiting for my big fish to hit the hook and real me to the gold mine. Or so that is what I was told, "Just find the 4", I am sure we have all been exposed to that building block.
Now we are facing some serious challenges in the country I live in, as well as my mlm company . I have seen a major decline in purchases and I will bet you this, if this Internet Marketing makes the bucks, ($$$), and it will, here is it next step. MlM companies will be running to their corporate attornies looking for a way to promote Ann's book at the next Rah, Rah, meeting.
Here is a tip, I just had cards made specifically for the next big convention, I have nothing on them about my mlm company everything is about internet marketing.
I am promoting me, I own real estate on the web and you know I am doing nothing unethical or deceptive. This is my business, Ann has shown a world how to promote our business in an way that follows the guidelines of our MLM companies. The fact that we can earn a little marketing cash along the way is no different that purchasing our marketing material from our companies all the while making them some extra buck for their marketing. I have chosen to redirect my marketing $$$'s.
I have confidence now, when I go to the grocery market, I am acually going to buy groceries and not prospect. I have my marketing material on the WWW, it is working for me.
I praise Ann and her willingness to challenge an industry that is stuck in the stone age. Also, I could not leave without praising Mike. You have started a new frontier, click by click, for us baby boomers. I could not be putting this together without the both of you.
Thanks
Nanny Patty
"My way. . . or the Highway," huh? I'm so grateful that The Renegade System isn't tied to a particular product.
I'm still trying mightily to get my system up and running . . . very slow when you're only able to do it part-time . . . but am pluggin' away at it!
Note of caution, however. My company just sent out a blanket email saying that using any of their materials, without preapproval, would be cause for termination. Can't blame them, considering copyright laws, etc., etc. So . . . PARAPHRASE, REGURGITATE, RESTATE . . . BUT DON'T VIOLATE COPYRIGHT LAWS!! (It's not only potential cause for termination, but against the law!
Hi Viking Seller,
There is no reason to use any of your companies materials on your site. You are branding you. Once you have attracted people to you via your lead capture page and have built a relationship with your prospect then and only then would you introduce your company. When you follow the teachings of Ann Sieg and Mike Klingler you learn all sorts of ways to monetize along the way.
Irene
After I read Ann's e-book, I was relieved. I did what my upline suggested but did not see huge results. I firmly believe that my upline was not trying to deceive. They were teaching the only method they knew that worked for them. I want to thank Ann for being bold enough to share her experience and give the rest of us hope. Let's fact it, Ann's e-book goes against the business model that leaders have used for years to build their MLM businesses. These leaders, however, should not be upset by Ann's e-book. They should be thanking her for giving hope to their distributors who have not succeeded. Ann's e-book should be looked upon as an opportunity to help the struggling distirbutors succeed. My point of view about network marketing is when you help others succeed, your success becomes automatic.
I was also originally trained in the "old school" ways when I first became involved with NM in the early eighties. Fortunately, I am in a compnay that teaches "new school" marketing using the internet so I am truly blessed.
I think probably the biggest reaction to Ann's book is the fact that many feel they are being called liers. That would pretty much offend most people. I don't feel that MLM/NM successors have lied altogether. The old ways did work and there is no denying that for many people. The fact is that times change and we now have more ways of communicating with people than there was in the beginning of MLM.
If that is embraced, it can be a benefit to all. However, many people who are already making six figures are proof that their system is working, so therefore, they will be harder to convince that a change is needed for the "newbies" that haven't already built their empire. I believe that in time, most companies will begin to see that change is necessary. Will some wait too late? Probably so. But I think for the most part, it will happen and the companies will begin to embrace the change. I am grateful that I am with a company that lets you decide what you are more comfortable with for your business rather than trying to force their business strategies down your throat in an effort to make you believe it is best for you.
Bonnie
Thanks for a very interesting hub, you have obviously struck the nerve.
I was in involved in MLM some 20 years ago.
I have never heard of Ann Sieg or her book. May be because after three years with a down line of over 10,000. I walked away.
Great information look forward to much more
Ann Sieg and Her 'The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing' E-book
I know my upline didnt like it when i showed him the rengade e book
Personally I have a real (negative) issue with this kind of marketing... period.
I think marketers actually focus on negatives to gain trust... they give try to make the reader believe they are on their side, when in actual fact they just want to rob them.
I have absolutely zero faith in or time for ebooks, especially when titled:
"The 7 Great Lies of Network Marketing"
My only thought is "what are you gonna do, add numbers 8 - 14".
thanks for sharing this stuff to all of us...
It really is beyond me. I don't understand what the big fear is with these uplines.
The larger their downline becomes thru attraction marketing the larger their check becomes. In my 20 plus years in and out of different companies the attrition rate is inevitable with the old model. Its their wake up call! People are sick and tired.
Ann Sieg is my hero : )
2ken said: Now I know that we tend not to value that which costs us nothing.
That's just an excuse your upline/company uses to justify the cost of their training / joining fee :-)
The statement may or may not be true but it is an example of something that is just blindly accepted without question.
My own view is if something is valuable people will value it. Free or otherwise.
Thanks for the info. Its pretty interesting stuff. There may not be the need for all of the negativity, but I wonder if its really possible to only do "Attraction Marketing?"
Interesting Hub! I have been involved in MLM in the past but never had any great success. People do become very successful in MLM with the OLD SCHOOL methods. I think that what Ann Sieg said about the 7 lies of MLM may be true in some cases but not all. There are good opportunities, with good products and good training systems out there, and those that want to make it bad enough more often than not, do become successful in those systems. But it is not for everybody. Attraction Marketing is a great alternative. I have found that this works better for me.
The thing I always find funny about network marketing people is the whole "fake it till you make it" philosophy. It seems like it's always a bunch of broke people who make zero money (or close to zero money) ranting and raving about how they unlocked the secret riches.
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes (can't remember who said it), which is:
"Beware the naked man who tries to sell you his shirt"
There are a whole LOT more than SEVEN measely LIES! wow ! I have been working online for over a decade! This is the tiny tip of the ice berg.
Well, this turned out to be quite a discussion!
I was hoping to hear from the disgruntled millionaire old-schooler who inspired me to create this Hub.
This article here was born out of an eye-opening (and jaw dropping) email dialogue that all started when I had emailed my list of contacts a video review on Sieg's Renegade (which is below).
I believe he's on my list, or someone forwarded him my email... because I received a very emotionally charged threat in response to my email and video... something about me losing my position in my company because I promoted Ann Sieg's book.
Now I took this as an absurd idea, and so I asked a question (after defusing my emotional charge) and out of curiosity more than anything I sought to understand where he was coming from.
20 or so email exchanges later I realized I was dealing with something that was not logic-based but that was at such an emotional level there was really no way to have a conversation with him.
But after a lot of threats and personal attacks I finally got 'some' concrete answers about why Ann Sieg's book is such a problem for him... and I encouraged him to write those issues down in here.
He said he would. I don't know if that will actually happen but it would be interesting.
In the next article here I'll take some excerpts from that email exchange I had and try to explain his point of view, as objectively as I can (not easy) to see if anyone here thinks there may be any weight to what he was trying to say.
Why is this topic important?
I feel it's important for people in the networking industry to think about this discussion in order to communicate to your prospects and team what the real issue is when they run into someone successful in the industry who is emotionally upset by Sieg's message.
As is usually the case in life, most of the hostility surrounding this issue is based on a lack of clarity and understanding. This is not as black-and-white as it may seem at first glance, and it will only be through empathy and a willingness to embrace what truly works that we will all be able to move forward in an effort to improve this industry.
As other people have noted already, traditional NWM'ers are not an evil, conniving group. Of course, there will always be opportunists in any industry, but I truly believe that most of the successful people in Network Marketing have a sincere desire to help others succeed as they have. When someone seems to be pointing the finger at them, claiming they have been succeeding at the EXPENSE of others, their defensiveness is understandable. They see this new system as an attempt to discredit everything they have based their careers on, and so they retaliate by attacking back before they really understand what it is based on.
One clear example of this is a statement I have seen several times from my personal upline. It points out that Network Marketing is a business of relationships, and that you can't build it using something as impersonal as the internet. This is a very important statement, because it reveals a clear misunderstanding of the basic principles of the attraction marketing model. Anyone who has educated themselves at even a rudimentary level on this subject should understand that attraction marketing is not an attempt to automate the relationships that MUST be cultivated in order to build a successful business.
What attraction marketing DOES do is match up interested prospects with qualified sponsors in a much more efficient manner than has been traditionally done. It simply filters out those people that are NOT a good match for the business opportunity, which allows the potential sponsor to focus on establishing connections with those people that appear to be a good fit. Once that connection has been made, it's up to the sponsor to cultivate that relationship with each person they make contact with. This is where the experience of traditional network marketers can pay off, because they have developed real skills in cultivating relationships. Once they understand this about attraction marketing, I feel they will be much more likely to embrace it as another tool to add to their belt.
With any new paradigm shift, there is always some resistance. For an industry to survive and thrive, though, it MUST be able to adapt and change according to new conditions in the environment. I think the following quote sums this up quite nicely:
"Only in growth, reform and change, paradoxically enough, is true security to be found." - Anne Morrow Lindbergh
Lane
H
Of course Ann Sieg crossed the line the line of insanity to sanity! A. Enstein is quoted as having said that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity. He also said that if you have never made a mistake then you haven't tried something new!
Ann Sieg really opened my eyes to why the "old-school" tactics weren't working. I think because she was able to target my frustrations so effectively that is why I was willing to listen to what she had to say.
Jill C.
Jill, that is a profound point--when considering if someone crossed the line by focusing on the negatives you shared a tremendous positive outcome... that she was able to connect with your pain.
So this could definitely be a constructive reason for considering using such a tactic in your marketing when, as Ann successfully accomplished with Jill, you're able to reach people who may not have received your message if you didn't first acknowledge their pain first.
Not much left to be said. I know my upline is worried, about what i've not been able to understand. My philosophy would be, if you can't beat em join em. A better way is a better way. Nuff Said.
Following the thread backwards I think I see why the new Guides program. When the snowball starts down hill they are going to be needed
Grant
Grant, you make a strong point. I'm not sure that most 'newbies' who have found themselves 'sucked into' the attractive allure of 'attraction marketing' yet fully realize how early they have arrived at a scene that is about to bust wide open in a huge huge way.
When Internet attraction marketing hits critical mass (that threshold sometimes referred to as the hundedth monkey effect when all the sudden EVERYONE 'gets it') there is going to be a massive surge of people who need to learn this stuff.
And that is exactly the purpose of why we're setting up the Marketing Merge Guides and Coaching program... to be able to have things set up so you can collect all these people (and have a framework in place to manage all the growth effectively).
I'm glad you brought this up here at the end of this thread.
The work people put forth now is going to be the fastest track to leadership and growth one could possibly get themselves on... it's all about timing and trends.
After 15 years of trying to make network marketing work, I had given up on my dream of having my own successful business. It was when I recently came upon Ann Sieg's ebooks that I found hope again.
It is easy to be side-tracked by doubts about the possibilities even now, so I am very glad to have read the above comments. It's nice to see I am not alone in my efforts and my belief in dreams.
Thank you all for sharing.
Elaine
The age of "old-school" prospecting is coming to an end simply because the Network Marketing industry is now attracting the professionals and executives who only a few years ago wouldn't have dreamed of joining an MLM company. They see the incredible potential for escaping the daily grind and they see the possibility of residual income. However, as someone who has come out of the corporate, professional career path myself, the old methods of network marketing did not sit well with me. To be honest a lot of it didn't even make any rational sense to me! Many of the methods are ineffective and inefficient. Much of the time you feel like a used car salesman (or should that be salesperson?) When I read Ann Sieg's book and then tapped into Mike Dillards work too, it was a total relief to find others who felt the same way. What a breath of fresh air. Maybe the so called gurus and MLM leaders are not only concerned about the new methods being used, but are worried about the high calibre "new age" distibutors that are coming into the industry through attraction marketing, who may well oust them from their top spots
I'm glad I found Ann's book.I'm even more gratful to find Mike's Renegade Univerasty.I bought My MLM oppturnity about ten years ago and due to lack of funds and desire to hound people to death to get into my business I just didnt do anything with it I Put It on the back burner so to speak. In the back of my mind though I thought I wonder If networkmarketing good be done on the internet? I wasnt smart enowgh to do what Ann has done but I'm glad Her ad Mike have made their books and services available to everyone who wants to learn the New Wave Of Networkmarketing.Thanks to mike and Ann. Im looking foward to learning more in the weeks to come,Ive learned moore with these guys than I have my upline in the ten years of my mlm.
Like many other folks who have left their comments, I too tried several times to make network marketing work, but just couldn't bring myself to do what my upline taught, the older methods that is. In fact it has been 10 years since I have even thought about Network Marketing and recently joined a company that not only made sense, but the product finally worked and everything seemed right, except how to build it. If it wasn't for Ann's 7 Great Lies, which lead me to The Renegade Network Marketer, and now The Renegade University, I would have never survived and would have never seen the success I am having today.
As controversial as it may seem on the outside, the message and training is what counts. These systems and training strengthen organizations, drastically cut down on people dropping out or quiting and finally provides a way to build long term residual growth.
Thank you for starting this conversation and posting the information. People need to know what options they have when building their business. For me, a simple guy from Iowa, the whole Renegade System has changed the face of Network Marketing and can lay the foundation to help anyone realize their dreams. Someday, when the word "Top Performer" is used to introduce me in my Network Marketing company, I will have to take you and Ann out to celebrate :-).
Thanks,Mike Witt
Working warm market works for some people. Its just not my personality to talk to everyone I know (and don't know) about my business. I love that Ann and Mike teach us new ways of doing business that are more in line with the way I like to do things.
If some people or companies are threatened by Ann's book, then I chalk it up to their own lack of information or fear of change. Who knows, they might come around. If not, then the bottom line is that its your business and (so long as you adhere to company policies), you should be able to build your business in the way that works best for you.
I think that Ann's book really opened my eyes, and I am busy right now building my web presence. However the one thing that does grate a little with me is the title. Although I can understand why Ann chose it, cos it is powerful I think it casts a slur over many thousands of well meaning "upline" whyo have made it the old way, long graft or not. I don't think its a matter of them lying, but more a matter that they can't see why we should move with the times. And like it or not we have to face a harde truth, MLM does have a slur. So my ijntention is to promote the book, and the university, and to follow all the advice and teaching here, ad also teach the old methods but combined with this. because there are some folk who would be good the old way, and not so good the new.
But the new is the best I think lol.
Ann is doing a fabulous job! I love her humour. I have not been as diligent about getting through Renegade U as I should, but just been too busy. Her info has helped though & I have corrected a few errors I found with my domain names. I am rapidly discoveriing that those that are really helping people make money & are making a difference out there are getting slammed! Am also involved with ASD! There are those who do not like people with integrity! Thank you Ann & thank you Mike!
I have read the comments on this site with great interest and agree with everything that has been said. I have recently joined Ann Sieg's Team and am working within her downline and I can honestly say that she is an absolute inspiration and truly practises what she preaches.
Not only are her books great but the way she supports her own team is phenomenal. She provides a totally duplicatable system, incredible training and engages regularly with her team to encourage and develop everyone. Her aim is to encourage EVERYONE to become successful independent marketers and if that is something that other uplines are scared of - I don't get it!
What better way to develop a successful business than to ensure the success of everyone in your team?? Ann encourages her managers and senior managers to focus on the development of their team and there is cross team co-operation like I have never seen before. Not only that but she does all of the marketing for us so we can focus on the real business of developing ourselves and making the money!
If this is a business model to be afraid of, then let those that continue to fear the success of their downlines (and the subsequent growth of their own business) continue to shake in their boots!
A TV Network in Australia launched an investigation into MLM companies a few years ago. The findings were that the high level earners received the bulk of their incomes not from product movement, nor from company bonuses, but from selling motivational materials to their downline.
One leading distributor from a well-known American company was asked on camera whether or not this was so. He refused to give a straight answer.
That is why the high earners are afraid - they stand to lose the bulk of their income.
"If Ann can do this, so can the cavemen do too?" My guess it's going to head Ann's way regardless what the few rich marketer says. I have tried mlm for awhile and always ticked off at the end of MLM messages is always the $$$ cost to sign up, thats the biggest turn off. I am still "ticked" off with NO TEXT messages on any audio or video for the millions of deaf and hearing impaired citizens who are trying to get started Mike think about this PLEASE as I have joined with ya!!!
TJ2,
I have gotten your messages on this through Didi and haven't known where to even begin. I would LOVE to do this and I would LOVE your help doing it. Perhaps this is your way of becoming a solutions provider in some way, and thus assisting thousands of others who need a text solution.
I just don't know enough about how to go about facilitating it yet and we are tapped on our time fulfilling our present commitments. But if you're willing to help us set things up in a cost effective way (so we can truly realistically implement it) I would be happy to put time and money into designing things so the millions of deaf and hearing impaired citizens can follow along with our training.
This would need to be postponed until after we market this however so I have the funds. It's not cheap hiring people to do these things and to get the web developer posting it, etc... and it's an ongoing cost. After we launch our marketing I will have more time and money. So if you're committed to this long term and are willing to help out after we launch big time in Winter -- when I'll have the funds to invest into this on the scale it will need, I'll do it happily with you.
Hey, this discussion hits the nerves of both sides of the camp with a bang.
Got me thinking about once upon a time, very long ago when I was a young musician teaching music, and studying some new methods, it seemed so very obvious to me that the new ways were soooo superior to the old, I couldn't figure out how anyone would not be excited to embrace the new.
I asked our innovative lecturer how she could cope with all the negative ravings of people who refused to open their minds. How could she cope with the negative discussions.. She looked me in the eye and simply said, "I don't NEED to argue, I just 'shut up' and work with the children."
Let the kids prove the point.
I guess her advice is still sound in this furor of opinion. Many of us are "children" when it comes to putting into action all you're teaching us Mike. BUT, (with all due respect!) 'shut up' and work with the children.
We'll be the proof of the pudding soon. And what a sweeeet taste it'll be for you and us!
We'll play this "not work marketing", this "setting up 'residual marketing' (just as we work at setting up our residual income) music with grace and skill and sensitivity.
Thanks for leading the way and to Ann Sieg for expressing what was in our hearts too.
Way to go Mike, I knew awhile before I ever saw Ann's 7 lies, I joined a company finding someone who was able to use sign language explaining the "HOW" to do in business.This was really a great beginning for me. I still did not feel the right way was doing what they told me to do, I enrolled around 50 customers with a change,explaining clearer why they should join with us reaching for their dreams.My upline was wondering how and what was I doing to get them in. I thought to myself if my upline cannot teach me why should I teach the upline? Then this is where I finally researched for a better way, thank you Ann Sieg. Now I do hope future marketer who wish to enroll new customer think twice, there are millions of people with dreams like myself, please use whatever methods you can do with these videos and audios where we can "hear" them by turning it to text message.
Mike and TJ2,
I would be pleased to participate in any way I can with getting text added to audio and video messages within Renegade University. I depend on the audios and videos all the time, still I never stopped to think about what it would be like to not be able to access such training due to hearing impairment. Audios and videos are used for most training these days in every company I've seen
We need a BIG movement to bring about change in this regard.
All of us can begin by pointing out to our leaders and trainers that this need exists. Many people will not have realized there was such a need.
Thank you, TJ2 for awakening us all.
Elaine Louthan
Not sure I understand why some leaders get upset with Ann except for their fear of loss or pain as you say.
As an old-time networker, we were always taught to believe we are all independent distributors. But then when we express this independence by thinking for ourselves and being creative, we are told not to do this.
I thing the biggest reason some old-time networkers feel negative about Ann is because she built her business so much bigger then most and in such a short period of time. This scares some uplines because they think their downline will all be successful and not need them anymore.
What they need to learn is that this will be more security for them, not less. Because their downline will last longer in the business because they can get into profit a lot faster than ever before. So in the long term, it is much better for everyone.
Bob Andolina
Hey lets get things stirred up
Hi Mike,
Someone told me about this hub and the dialog that was within...amazing. This is real community.
I'm completely green to network marketing. I joined my first network marketing company only a month and a half ago. I'm enouraged to use the internet, brand myself and learn as much as I can about attraction marketing from my upline all the way up to the president and CEO of the company.
I can contribute these thoughts to the conversation: Many many years ago in the early to mid 1980s, when I was a boy, a man came to see my dad, and I remember well this "friend" of my dad's getting all excited about his opportunity. I remember my dad writing him a check. So I asked him, Dad, what was that all about? And my dad said, He's been a friend for years. I just couldn't tell him no, so I told him I'd buy his products just so he'd leave.
Not cool if you ask me. My told had always told me that MLM was an awesome way to make money; told me that being an entreprenuer was a great way to make money and have freedom. So I asked him why he never did it himself, and he said He hated the marketing model. In other words, he saw a value in it, but didn't like the way business was being conducted.
I grew up with this attitude -- for better or worse. So after years of being a professional public school teacher, I had the itch to flex my entreprenuerial spirit. I looked to network marketing. I consider myself lucky. I found The Renegade Network Marketer and Magnetic Sponsoring -- right off the bat. This is a professional model to get behind.
I've been going strong with Renegade University -- teaching attraction marketing -- for 4 months. It's made all the difference. I'm even thinking I can score some cash off my dad, but in a more attractive and professional manner all these years later.
Thanks for allowing us all to share.
Eric Walker
P.S. Have you ever considered sharing these attraction marketing strategies OFFline. I would so enjoy getting OUT of the office and into the local community, especially now that I have confidence and feel empowered to teach people how to do all this ONline marketing, but I have no clue how to go about it OFFline. How does one create attraction OFFline without the old school methods?
Mike, very interesting and truthful article. I've been toying around with mlm for a couple of years now and ever "guru" I went to seemed to tell me to focus on the negitive side of people needs and desires, and of course they always focused on my need to give them more money to find out one more "hidden secret" that would make me rich in my attempts. I've wasted a lot of hard earned money in the last couple of years trying to find success in this market that could have been used on my children, it pisses me off that these so called gurus can get away with the scams that they do. But with what ann and others are doing their scams wont be raking them in the big money much longer as the masses find out the real truths to marketing. thank you for the article and the insites that you give.
Billy Kidd
I've just finished reading Ann's book and I have to admit that everything she wrote kinda slapped me in the face because I have been involved in MLM for 2 years now an although I am not shy and an easy going friendly person, I really feel like I'm harassing people, chasing them around, can't relax if I go shopping or out for dinner because I feel like I always have to prospect prospect prospect!!! I really didn't know there was other ways to do this kind of business then the old way until I read Ann's book.
I've been working my business the "old way" and have made it halfway to the top with my MLM company so yes the old school way can work but I'll be honest with all of you, the new way looks so much more attractive and now after reading all these e-mails I'm thinking more and more of switching to the renegade way. I have lost many "builders" in my dowline due to the fact they didn't feel comfortable being out of their "comfort zone" and doing presentations and so on.
Not sure my uplines would agree with me but at this point it's my business and my decision. I'm so happy I found that book and this site, I had so many questions but now most of them have been answered here.
THank you!
My experience with MLM so far is this: I have had ups and downs with my business and building my team. Some days I’m so frustrated I could just give up but I know the only way to fail at Network Marketing is to actually quit. So, I have been doing a lot of research because I told myself, there has got to be a better way of doing this kind of business. That is when I came upon “The Renegade Network Marketing” and the 7 Great lies of Network Marketing. Boy am I glad I found this.
Every frustration I have been experiencing are right there in that book. The one thing I think that frustrates me the most about the “old way” of doing MLM is attending endless meetings but wait, this is the part I find the most discouraging and frustrating; If you have had months where your sales were really good and your team was moving then at the following meeting you were treated like the king of king or the queen of queen but god forbid another month you had a bit of a setback well at the next meeting you weren’t even mention, on to the next king of king or the next queen of queen.
In the meantime, builders at that same meeting that never really experience high sales are mostly never mentioned and you can see in their faces that they are totally “destroyed” inside just sitting there not saying anything. Aren’t we always told in MLM that we are all “equal” if we are all equal well I think that everyone at those “meetings” should all be treated equally and acknowledge, high sales or low sales or just don’t say anything at all. After all these people showed up to the meetings too right! Does this sound familiar to any of you?? That must mean they are also trying hard to succeed! You know what, after being in MLM for years and experiencing frustration and trying so hard to build my business I’ve decided to move on to the Ann Sieg way!
For me, no more 3 foot rule, no more fake it till you make it, no more talk to more people, no more remember your why, no more you’re mouth is your office talk until you can’t talk anymore etc… I’m sure all this is familiar to you too.
You know what, the old methods of MLM SUCKS!!!! I’m moving on to the new age of Network Marketing.
I wish amazing success to everyone!
JJ
Isn't the idea of network marketing to build a "network" of people? If we're building our businesses, staying in compliance with our companies by not advertising our products (those of us who can't), wouldn't it behoove our uplines to not put a stop to that? Afterall, the dropout rate of most MLM'ers is over 90%. This gives us a way to not fall into that category of failures and isn't that what all uplines want? For us to be successful? They would have to be absolute morons to want to shut that down when their businesses have grown exponetially over the past year because of Ann Sieg, Mike Klinger, Mike Dillard and the others who came up with the idea of Attraction Marketing. Hello!!
Ah well, no one likes change and I'm sure at their level, they think 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' which works well for them, they're making thousands of dollars a month!
I think once they realize the growth that has occurred because of Ann Sieg they really don't have a leg to stand on. It is time to come into the 21st century, the tides are changing - thank goodness! The old ways are dying because people don't have time to build business the old way not to mention the fact that the old ways aren't working anymore!
Let's hope that Mike's uplines is one of the minority!
To the success train Attraction Marketing has started!!
Kathy
Hi Craig, thanks for this hubpage. Ann Sieg's 7 great lies is one of the best truths about network marketing and it's high time we've dealt with the issue for once and for all. I've struggled for years wanting to achieve success in network marketing and not being able to duplicate the old-school methods. Then comes Ann and Mike Dillard and I finally believe that I can do this -- I just have to LEARN how. I can learn with marketing merge and Ann Sieg. Thank you Thank you Thank you. I would also think that everyone else who is old school, new school, etc. would welcome this new method being able to reach those that they couldn't and thus creating more success all across the board. Bravo for Ann Sieg and marketing merge. Peace, Simone
Mike, I hope I am not to late to chime in here. I am just starting out in hubpages so I just found the article I have been a sucessful networker for a while now and am making the transition from the old school way to the more empowering way. And I have to say it suits me a lot better. Having said that, my one big fear, and this isn't so much a critique of Ann but more about a LOT of people that subscribe to her approach, and that is they are throwing out the baby with the bath water. There were (and still are) some major problems with the "Old School" but there were some things that were done well. Nobody seems to want to talk about the good stuff that can still be used.
I was told that our company would not let us advertise our product in any other fashion other than what was company approved and that anything other than meetings and company training was not encouraged as it was not " duplicatable"
what is your comment on this?
Kris,
MLM Company's have to protect themselves legally. They don't want you using their trademark names (company name, founder names in advertising, product trademark names); that is what you are refering to.
And that is OK. We don't teach to use their names because it's not good for business. That looks like pitching and selling, which doesn't work very well any more. Times have changed. Now, success and attracting business comes down to trust MORE than ever before. It comes down to who will LISTEN to your product (or company) recommendations. People need to believe you before you have any influence. It's really always been this way but now more than ever.
To do this you don't advertise your company name or product names, which companies don't want you to do anyway.
Instead, you create valueable content that your target audience (people on the net who are interested in the types of things you offer) are interested in. As just ONE example, if you sell nutrition, don't advertise your company name and products! Create an article with your opinion on the new legislation that might be passed soon that will require all nutrition to be FDA approved! That article will attract people who buy nutrition and they will start to see YOU as a credible person.
That cna link to a video where you might show how you get your family to eat 12 vine ripenned fruits and veggies (with easy to cook meals). Or it can link to a blog where you have more articles related to wellness topics.
Then, build an email list with a simple lead capture page or opt in form at your blog. Or, on your blog at the end of each article have a bio inviting people to call you for a free 20 minute 'wellness' conslutation. Over time adn pretty quickly you learn little things you can offer in that phone conversation to get people to call who were attracted to your content and who see you as credible person.
This is all much easier to learn to do (the tools are not hard to use anymore).... much easier to learn to do than pitching and selling, which people don't like anymore.
Mike
I don't think I say say it any better that the comments above. Attraction marketing is a "fact of life" and if you can't or won't change you will be left behind. David
Hey Mike, thank you for sharing this information with us. I never had the thought of how 'old-school' network marketers even viewed attraction marketing techniques until I read this Hub.
It comes down to the individual of course, but in a broad sense I never gave it my full attention.
As far as I'm concerned the true entrepreneurial spirit changes with the times instead of trying to bring it down.
Robert Kiyosaki talks about the power and use of LEVERAGE. The individual entrepreneur, particularly the NETWORK MARKETER in today's society who truly BELIEVES in leverage and prosperity would undoubtedly have the internet working for them.
And that includes USING the power of Attraction Marketing to their advantage.
Thanks again for bringing this up,
Dario Montes de Oca
The book's news to me - thanks for letting me know about it.
The old way was the reason I dropped MLM. the three foot rule and every body was a target did not sit well with me. I have always been taught service was a value to be sought and practiced. So when Ann book came out it struck a cord and i said I can do this. To bad it was not here when I started. Over the line no she and you have built a new park.
I myself did not have a good experience with my warm market, a lot of rejection. But I still believed in my product and opportunity, and at the same time knew I needed to be in the traffic. And where is the traffic now days? Online. We all know that. I had a feeling about that the minute I joined my company.
Then Ann Sieg led me from no knowlege whatsoever to huge practical knowledge, and most of all I can be in the traffic.
I guess it's all how you present it, I myself am not big on the negative, I usually revert to the positive, so I can see that the 7 Great Lies might have ticked off some people, but in the end it's all about Marketing right?
If I have a chance to learn great marketing techniques for a low cost and do my marketing for free then I say Why Not Try It?
Hi Mike: Really not much to add with all the good comments. If your upline is opposed to internet marketing and Attraction Marketing, they are afraid you are on to something that will work. I've been in the old style network marketing for 25 years, and used all their old methods.I tell you when your not making money, your spouse thinks your really dumb, to keep on putting money into your business, with no returns.
She is under the impression that only certain types of people can succeed, and in the old way, she is partly true.I need the internet as we only have 4000 people in our county in Northern MN. I need it for my real estate business as I couldn't make it either, as 80% of my sales come from my company's websites, and emails.
I have never had my uplines, who have made money ever call me in 25 years.Doesn't that tell you, they are not concerned about your success. I have sponsored over 50 people in my last company. But most quit after 3-8 months. I really don't care what my upline thinks, as what we are doing is ethical and honest, by throwing people a life raft to help save their frail business.
Sorry about ranting and raving, but I have had it with uplines, and how great they are.
I have been involved in Linkedin for some time now and I joined a few groups. One of the groups I joined was the MLM Pros. I was in a discussion with someone about being unsuccessful at MLM and I hit a nerve. There was an old schooler there telling me the same old rhetoric. He actually said I was being not nice. Actually, I was merely telling the truth. I was also talking about how downlines today really need more than work of mouth advertising. They need internet skills. The list business does not work for everyone. Wow that really upset this person. Believe it or not, after I had said that I was not being hostile towards anyone and that I was merely talking about helping your downline become more computer savvy, this person apologized and was actually listening to me. These old schoolers are just so brainwashed that they just don't understand how difficult it is today to just make a list and you will be rich. What Ann and Mike are doing is unbelievable. It is finally opening doors for alot of people who really had no clue. All I can say is thank you.
Humiliation Was My Motivation:I've been in direct sales and many networking businesses over the years. Some ventures have been profitable. My latest was born out of a desire to do something about my arthritic hands. I began taking supplements with good results and decided to sell them.Not so long ago, I received extra product by mistake. The item was correct but in large bottles rather than individual packs. I decide to give them away a product sample.So, I looked at my list, you know the one you are told to create when you first start, consisting of your friends, family and anyone you've ever been in contact with. I choose four high-profile people I hadn't contacted lately. Set appointments on the phone and drove to the first home.We sat down in his home office and got re-acquainted. He's very successful and always working. He's a friend of the family and I respect him. I told him I began taking supplements that have improved my health and I decided the sell them. Then I asked if he would like to try it and if he would be interested in the business. I made my "Old School" sales pitch.I could see his disgust with me! He had no interest in adding work load to his life, or solving health issues, being much younger than I and in good shape. Then he brought up some websites with similar products having unique formulas and claiming results. He further informed me I was a few years late in my discovery of these types of products.While returning home, I canceled the other appointments. I was humiliated but not totally devastated. And that's when I began my search for something other than the old school method of sales.I'm not sure why I did the next step but here's what happened. I set up an account at Twitter and then searched Network Marketing. I followed my current mentor and guide to her youtube site. There, I watched her video and the subject immediately resonated with me. I followed her call-to-action, downloading some e-books and got busy doing things in a completely different way.It was really rather simple, "Attract those who have a need and are actively searching".It's about putting valued content on the web and allowing people to find it.No more chasing suspects. No more pitching friends and family. No more buying lead lists. No more humiliation.
When I first came across Ann's information,I noticed a variety of mixed reactions.Ofcourse your mindset has a lot to do with this but,If you've been a frustrated network marketer like me,and thousands of others,this made a lot of sense!
It shouldn't matter if you want to help make a difference in people's lives how this is done but,there seem to be an awful lot of people who want to claim all the benefits of MLM without really thinking about the people they're supposed to be helping!
Are other people not the key to success?
What happened to:If you help enough other people to get what they want,you will gett what you want!
Then,surely,as things devellop,you have to go with the times and show others the best way forward,using the technology available to them as it devellops?
Ann,and Mike,you're cutting a path for all to follow...and I know many of us are grateful for all the work and effort you've put in to make a difference in the lives of thousands of struggling marketers!
I hope that the'old school'will see sense and start teaching attraction marketing to everyone for their benefit and stop acting and thinking,this is just another fad.
My greatest respect to you both for getting me on the right path,even though I have a long way to go and for making a difference in my life!
Warmest regards,
Jan Robberts :-)
Hey Ann,
Just wanted to tell you how much I VALUE your work and what you have done for this industry. You and Mike Klingler were the first people to open my eyes to the Internet Marketing world and I cannot thank you enough because if it wasn't for your first eBook I would still be delivering pizza every night.
What I've seen with the uplines is that they teach the consept of what works for me will work for you if you have the right mind set. Well my mind is set, but I could never figure out why they don't really reveal their secrets. We all know that our uplines can not be spending all their days and weeks on the phone talking to prospects about their business. So where are the prospects coming from? When I read the 7 Great Lies in Network Marketing by Ann I just knew that my upline had me chasing my tell. At the same time when there was a team call meeting people kept talking about Web 2.0, SEO, Social Marketing. But they would never fill in the gaps to help bridge the process of it all. That's when I said enough is enough and took matters into my own hands. If the internet is the world wide web of constant communication, then why do they not want us to use it to the full? That to me means freedom! Free communication to grow my business or any business in the right direction into the future. Technology is a terrible thing to waiste in this day in time.
Great to see all the comments and obviously it is about a fear of change for this guy, fearing what he may lose, fear of the unknown, EVEN though this change in any downline is going to be of the BEST benefit in income to him, but the greatest change will be in the growth of his downline's confidence, business strength, empowerment to become leaders. That is what the sharing of the 7 Great Lies ebook is all about. Too many of us have given up using or even trying to build in the old method, despite attending meetings, running meeetings, presentations all over the place, buying tools... just to see it work for a while or not at all. I am a firm believer in the success of your team members is paramount to the success of your upline, so this training gives us the chance not only to learn Attraction Marketing in the Renegade University for FREE, but to encourage like-minded prospects to do the same. Then there is the option to go forward by joining the online training in Renegade Professional, for a reasonable cost. It is something that you can stop and start around the distractions in your life. Yes it is going to take time, the more time you have to dedicate, the better and faster you can learn... even old MLMers, like me can gradually learn the principles to apply online. It is easy to be overwhelmed and give up, but that applies to any network marketing styles, old and new. The mindset that came with old schoolers to be positive DOES STILL MATTER in this case. Re-focus each day again until you get there. I can't believe that anyone can't see that with new technological advances there would have to be some changes to the way we do business today! Even top guns, or more experienced online network marketers can still learn how to bring it all together by going to another level in Renegade Professional or Renegade Breakthrough Mentoring. This system from Ann Sieg and Mike Klingler is brilliant and evolving all the time, even encouraging Joint Ventures, which is something old schoolers know exist in businesses today. It just needs a fresh look and a newly re-opened mind.... go for it and see what happens, bit by bit. A big thank you to Ann and MIke for all you have shared from your experiences.
Hi Mike, I was just reading your blog and came accross this post again. If it is any help, I since wrote a Squidoo lens on this topic that many might find helpful. I wrote this because of what a person was saying on their blog about the renegade system becaused they failed with it.
Here is the link: http://www.squidoo.com/WarningAboutRenegade
I think you'll find it very interesting,
Bob Andolina
Excellant hub, lots of discussion.
The king is dead ( OLD SCHOOL ) Long live the Queen (new school )
I have been in MLM for almost 13 years in several companies. Never made a dime to speak of, but I learned that no matter what the company, or what the product, basically, "nobody wants to hear about it." When I discovered The 7 Great Lies... it hit me like an explosion. It addressed nearly everything I had personally felt to be wrong with MLM in those 12+ years, but it went on to suggest that there is another way! Enough said, no need to look back.
Ann's methods do threaten the old model. Consider that compensation plans take into account the statistical performance of distributors. If distributors tackle prospects one at a time in parking lots, the growth curves and compensation cash flow will be very different than they will be if distributors start using Ann's methods. MLM companies will be FORCED TO CHANGE, and they don't want to have to do that, so they fight the change instead. (imho) Thanx, Ann, you have set us free.
The old school way of building a network marketing business is fine if you are good at it and enjoy it. Plus, if you are an extrovert, then all the better. but let's face it, most of us are introverts with zero sales skills. So they new school will be the only way they can be successful.
Keep going --- just keep going---- refreshing
I have spent quite a while searching the net, reading forums, and so forth to understand the nature of the criticism regarding The 7 Great Lies ebook. I have found that in many cases people critically oppose some idea or other that is never stated or even implied in the ebook. In other words, some of the controversy has been stirred by people who simply didn't like the title and actually never read the contents. It is the old "straw man" argument.
Here is an interesting fact: The words "new school" never appear in the ebook yet you hear many supporters and critics using the phrase as though Ann Sieg used it throughout the book.
Although the ebook is now almost 3 years old as I write this comment, I nevertheless decided to take another look at both the book and the controversy in a series of posts at fitting-the-pieces.com
Hello Mike,
As a fledgling in the marketing industry, and with a background in teaching and learning, I tried the old ways suggested by the company I represent. My husband and I embraced this new business after the downturn in the economy. we needed to find something!
But it was not long before we were assured that it was not for us. I knew I could never warm market, cold call, pamphlet drop and the likes. Oh we tried it, but we were decidedly uncomfortable whilst doing so. Let's not even talk about the money we spent!
I then turned to article marketing, which is so much more me! However, I quickly realised that it was only a small part of the equation and that I needed to find something else if I wanted success. I didn't know how to get word out to the world at large.
A few months ago I found Renegade, and so, my journey has begun. We are not there yet and I have had to crawl through so many frustrating hoops in order to understand and implement social marketing, but the big picture is becoming so much clearer.
I am really hoping that in the next few months, people will come to me and ask why I am doing so well. Now wouldn't that be a vindication of your work!!!
Not sure who is lying to who these days. But one thing is clear, Network Marketing has a way of filtering out the leis and getting down to the brass tack about how to gain financial freedom.
When I first read Ann's book, I knew I'd hit the jackpot.
I disliked the old school marketing methods that were being taught. I didn't relish speaking to my family and friends, especially knowing that I was not well-versed enough to speak intelligibly about the product and the company.
And talking to complete strangers, that was even more counter-productive, at least in my view anyway.
More often than not, it was way too expensive to join a company, purchase the product as well as all the "support" material that was always available for purchase.
I really started to dislike the industry.
Ann's book was a real eye-opener for me. The concept of attraction marketing was... attractive to me. Everything she wrote about regarding the old school methods hit home.
Those who would like to censor her are merely afraid of losing their grip on the market. How they've determined that she is a threat is hard to see as something logical.
To be so hard core as to not to look at Attraction Marketing as a viable alternative is typical of people who will resist change with all the energy they can muster.
I've recently started to read her material again to get refreshed.
There's no way I would subject myself to old school marketing methods again.
Hey Mike,
I can see why anyone teaching "old-school" methods and raking in profits for selling that stuff, would be pissed with what Ann's teaching in her books.
What Ann has done with her books is to revolutionize the way the MLM industry went about doing business and dismythicized the prowess of its top earners by denouncing the business behind the business.
Most importantly I think, she "exposed" the ineffectiveness of "old-school" methods and proposed a "new" model to build a real business with real earning potential.
In other words, she has put the dream within anyone's reach.
I found Ann Sieg and her phenomenal books, not by chance, but because I wanted to make sure, that if I was to start an MLM business, I was going to benefit my friends and others whom I asked to join. So I searched the web and there she was. I am very thankful for that.
Thanks for allowing me to share this with you.
And thanks to all of you...
Your friend,
Mauricio Lemus
VERY well written hub, this is going into my favorites!!
Keep writing more!
Alex
Quick Message From Mike Klingler After Reading Your Comments & Lively Discussion
Well, this turned out to be quite a discussion!
I was hoping to hear from the disgruntled millionaire old-schooler who inspired me to create this Hub.
This article here was born out of an eye-opening (and jaw dropping) email dialogue that all started when I had emailed my list of contacts a video review on Sieg's Renegade (which is below).
I believe he's on my list, or someone forwarded him my email... because I received a very emotionally charged threat in response to my email and video... something about me losing my position in my company because I promoted Ann Sieg's book.
Now I took this as an absurd idea, and so I asked a question (after defusing my emotional charge) and out of curiosity more than anything I sought to understand where he was coming from.
20 or so email exchanges later I realized I was dealing with something that was not logic-based but that was at such an emotional level there was really no way to have a conversation with him.
But after a lot of threats and personal attacks I finally got 'some' concrete answers about why Ann Sieg's book is such a problem for him... and I encouraged him to write those issues down in here.
He said he would. I don't know if that will actually happen but it would be interesting.
In the next article here I'll take some excerpts from that email exchange I had and try to explain his point of view, as objectively as I can (not easy) to see if anyone here thinks there may be any weight to what he was trying to say.
Why is this topic important?
I feel it's important for people in the networking industry to think about this discussion in order to communicate to your prospects and team what the real issue is when they run into someone successful in the industry who is emotionally upset by Sieg's message.
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Airsled 2 years ago
I really don't 'get' why these uplines that make huge amounts of money evey month are upset. Don't they realize that if they changed over and learned Attraction Marketing their income would grow. Not to mention what will happen to their income if all the people in their downline used Attraction Marketing. Wouldn't their income just explode in their faces? HELLO!