The Lightning Process Didn't Work For me
93Shedding light on the lightning Process
PHIL PARKER’S LIGHTNING PROCESS DIDN’T WORK FOR ME.
The Lightning Process is the latest 'miracle' cure for M.E and Chronic Fatige. It is shrouded in mystery because they drill it into participants that if they tell anyone about it it won't work.. It has worked for some people but not for others. It is based on affirmations and counteracting negative thoughts if you are already familiar with such things it will not be anything new for you. I paid £550 to go on the course because I couldn't find out what it was really about. This is why I have written this.
There were four of us on the course. The morning of the first day was spent ‘proving’ mind over matter by showing us DVD’s interspersed with talks from the tutor, a stout woman in her late fifties, telling us about people who had being wrongly diagnosed with cancer and then died anyway.
‘That’s how powerful your mind is,’ she trilled and didn’t cite the many cases of people wrongly diagnosed with cancer who gave away all their money only to find themselves still alive and then sue the NHS - as was on the radio recently. We were shown optical illusions, pictures where one way it looks like an old woman, one way a young one and another one of an elephant with varying numbers of legs depending on how you looked at it. She kept pointing to her large sofas and telling us stories about people who had lain there unable to move at the start of the course and were walking again by the third day and then back at work/school by the following Monday (the course was mid week). I liked this bit. Before the course I could already walk, I could even work part time, but I still slept afternoons, travel exhausted me and nights out left me sleepless and overwrought. If others went from nothing to being able to work in four days I was sure to get well. I believed it could work. My basic attitude was I have paid £550 for this (borrowed money as I am on benefits) I am going to do what they say.
The first thing was to take responsibility for our illness. I had to stop saying I had M.E. Instead I have to say I am ‘doing M.E’, I wasn’t tired, I was ‘doing tired and doing muscle aches’. The implication being if I am doing it I can stop doing it. I wasn’t sure what I thought about this, but it didn’t matter because I didn’t get to put it into practice much on the course as you are not encouraged to talk about how you are. This was because we are going to concentrate on the positive which at the time seemed fair enough. The facilitator was telling us more and more stories about the people she had cured. One of them even phoned up while we were having lunch and the phone was passed round the table so we could all talk to her. By that time I was up really up for it, we all were, whatever the process was, I was going to do it with all my heart.
In the afternoon session we were told that the reason we had M.E is that we have negative thoughts. Every time we have them our adrenal glands give us ‘a squirt of adrenaline’ this builds up and stops your body functioning properly.
The Lightening Process would stop this happening. This was a miracle. The five hundred and fifty pound wonder.
The tutor stood up. ‘To stop this you have to get up and say ‘Stop’ make a physical movement, step back or cross your wrists in a pushing away movement.’ And she did the movement for us. Then she showed us how to go through an affirmation/self-coaching process, which I think is copy righted so I’ll paraphrase. You ask yourself if you want to choose happiness. Which you obviously do and then you say how fantastic you are to have stopped the negativity thought. You ask yourself what you really want, then you answer yourself, and again ask yourself how you are going to get there. The answer of course is to keep doing the process, getting rid of those negative thoughts. Then you tell yourself how great you are again and maybe have a bit of a hug with yourself, then…….. no nothing, that’s it.
Kerching. Five hundred and Fifty pounds please.
I was a bit perturbed at this point because I have been doing affirmations and therapy for many years so I am not blighted by the kind of negativity that can be emotionally crippling, and when I first discovered that it was wonderful. But I discovered it in a book that cost £3.50 now I it seemed I had paid £550 for the same lesson.
However the mere fact I had paid so much money meant I was going to do exactly as they told me, it had worked for others and it could work for me. We were told to do The Process thirty times that evening. I went back to my guest house and did as I was told. I spoke to my loved ones but when they asked how it went I was reluctant to talk about it. The tutor said that if we tell people about the process if won’t work. That’s right, to talk about the process means it can’t work for you. She also told had told us no matter how she feels she tells everyone she ‘feels fabulous’. I wasn’t quite ready to tell people I felt fabulous but equally I didn’t tell anyone how much the first day had tired me because that is a negative thought and that must be countered, so I did my thirty processes, went for a walk and then to bed.
The second day when I turned up there was three big posters saying, ‘DON’T TALK ABOUT HOW YOU ARE UNTIL THE SESSION STARTS’. I soon realised once it did start that is so the tutor can control everything. She didn’t ask me if I felt better she asked what I did the night before, I said, ‘I did the Process and I went for a walk’ she said, ‘Sally, went for a walk, hooray’ like it was a victory for the Lightning process but as I said my M.E is moderate and I go for a walk everyday, but no-one would have known.
As the day went on I was getting more and more tired. By mid-afternoon I was slumped in my seat watching yet another video about how the brain makes us over-produce adrenalin and how The Process can stop it. But I had been doing the process and it hadn’t stopped it. All the tutor’s happy chat about even more people she had cured were starting to sound stale.
I was not the only one who looked knackered. One of the blokes started asking questions about why he doesn’t feel what they say on the DVD.
‘It’s a three day process’ she snaps and makes him do the Process.
Any awkward question for the rest of the session was answered with ‘It’s a three day process,’ or anything even more awkward she says we can ask in the individual sessions we are having the next day.
If anyone says anything she thinks is negative we are interrupted and corrected.
At one point she left the room. It felt very naughty but I whispered to one of the woman sitting next to me ‘how are you, is this working for you?’. She was reluctant to answer, to say anything but that she was doing well would be to go against the process because that is a negative thought. It was pointless asking really.
Still I wanted it to work, but I was starting to worry about the fact that I was not only not feeling any better the effort of doing the course, not getting my normal rest was making me feel worse.
But these were negative thoughts. I started to ruthlessly suppress them like I had been shown.
Yes by that evening I was doing the Lightning Process to counteract my thoughts about the Lightning Process itself.
The next day I still felt no different. I went and had my one to one session and when I told her that she said I was being negative (of course) and that I must keep doing the process at home and it would work. But on the course I was told that the reason it was called 'lightning process' was that because it worked liked lightning (they even produced diagram with a graphic of some lightning in case we didn't get it. I got the concept, it just wasn't happening.) From all the literature I was sent prior to parting with borrowed money to go on the course, were testimonials saying how fast it had worked. No body said it didn't work on the course but it did later. Also I realised when you fill in the form you have to say whether you question things, this is because they don’t want anyone on the course who does. They need to control everything. You are not allowed to talk about how you are because that is being negative. In the session anything I even hinted to this effect was countered with that I was being negative. So we moved on to what else she could do for me. I said one of my biggest problems was being exhausted but unable to sleep. So we did a visualisation that involved a pressure point on my hand and she said whenever I couldn’t sleep I could just rub that point.
‘There you are you are cured,’ she said so happily that I could see in her mind where no negative thoughts ever creep, I was. She was clearly thrilled with herself. I wanted to believe her and tried it for the next few nights, of course to no avail.
The lightning process is supposed to be NLP and osteopathy. I could see no osteopathy, the only movement on the course I attended was the stop movement and the pressure point on my hand I mentioned above. The woman who ran the process had been cured herself so maybe they have got something. I didn’t disbelieve he, she had a large house with a spare flat that she no longer needed to rent out due to how much she was making from peddling the lightning process to desperate people like me.
To give her her due she did drive me to and from the station and after the course offered to work with me for free on the phone. So I accepted that but found out that working with me involved her telling me to keep working the process because it worked and arguing with my objections saying I hadn't given it time and that I was being negative.
She kept saying 'keep doing it cos it works,' and had nothing to say when I said I had kept 'doing it'. She said I had given up so soon. I was told it had a 93 % success rate. On my course of four it seemed to work for one person and had an impact on another, but for two of us it failed completely.
Phil Parker who invented this process charges £1000 for his three day courses and has over 20 people per course. He should put some of that money into doing a proper clinical trial. It must be easy to wire people up to see if they get a squirt of adrenaline when they have negative thoughts. Maybe that does happen for some people but not all. Some people do get cured but not me.
I wished they asked on the application form if I was plagued with negative thoughts and whether I had worked with affirmations before I could have told them No, and Yes. Then they would have known their process was nothing new for me.
If you would like to know more about other therapies for M.E and Chronic FatigueI have tried (some with some success some with none) please email me on sallyholloway@boltblue.com
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Comments
Hi Sallycats, thank you for writing so honestly about the Lightning Process. I have wondered about its usefulness for so long but feared it might turn out to be just as you have described it. I certainly don't need anyone else to tell me I don't want to be well or that my negative thoughts are the cause.
Best wishes from Harriet
Many thanks for this. It's quite clear that if you have genuine ME this ain't going to work.
The phone call from the recovered patient on the first day is pretty classic dodgy salesmanship- rather like a timeshare ploy - definitely a plant!!!
Thanks for giving us your insights.
What on Earth could be more negative than yelling "stop" at yourself?
Shouldn't the psychiatrists be alarmed about any therapy which calls upon someone to be dishonest with themselves about how they are feeling?
Isn't the whole LP concept an anathema to mental health?
Thank you for writing this.
I had wondered if the Lightning Process fell into the "If it doesn't work it's because you don't believe it enough." category of 'cures'. I am shocked to see the addition of "If you tell anyone about it, it won't work."
With science like this Phil Parker will never conduct clinical trials or give permission for them.
You have answered my question and saved my money.
I just wanted to say thankyou for clearing up the 'wonder cure' of The Lightning Process. To be honest, it sounds very much how I had feared, a 'cult cure', if they want to help stop charging nearly £600 for something we are already aware of. Sadly in life no-one can be 100% positive 100% of the time.
Sounds cult like.
How sad to put down a training programme that has helped so many thousands of people move on in their lives. It certainly helped me and I will be eternally grateful
thnaks for postin this info this "treatment" has been secret for far to long
its not on how its bein touted as a cure??? for me when it isnt ! and besides i couldnt afford it anyway
m.e is real physical illness
Hi
Thanks for this. I have posted a link on my blog (Norwegian). Somehow this has become a hype in Norway. Everybody is talking about it as the one thing to cure ME. The success stories have been published in every newspaper. So everyone I know is pushing me to take this course. I am in the same position as you I think, so this was very useful. I will not spend 15000 kroner (about 1500£) on this...
Hi. I did the Lightning Process a month ago with Ian Cleary in Australia and I can honestly say I am well now after 14 years on disability with CFS. I feel the need to respond to Sally's article. I hope you will read what I say carefully. Some of it may seem confronting.
First of all, the Lightning Process is just that, a process. Like driving a car, or any skill, it is not something that "works" or doesn't. It is a process that you either learn to use successfully, or you don't. If you don't learn to use it successfully there must be a reason for that.
One possible reason is your attitude. Imagine you went to a driving lesson and every time they asked you to change gears you rolled your eyes and said "I paid $40 for this?" Or if they told you that if you turn the wheel it will turn the car and you said "That's just positive thinking!" There are questions that you have to answer before enrolling in the lightning process, that are intended to screen out people who would not benefit from doing the process. Unfortunately it seems some people still get through and waste their money. You need to be quite focused to learn the LP, and yes, you need to believe that it's possible to recover because the LP is awkward and scary at first, so why would you go through the challenge of stretching yourself if you didn't have any faith in its effectiveness?
Another possible reason for failure is that Sally's trainer somehow did not manage to get through to her. My trainer, Ian, was amazing. He kept us on track whenever we needed it. At every stage he let us know what we needed to do to succeed. He didn't just snap at us or say "it's a 3 day process". By the time we learned the process itself we had been well informed and were all very clear that it was NOT "just positive thinking", because you need more than that to change your neurology. And we had plenty of opportunity to practice and to learn from watching each other practice, and to go home and try it out at the end of each day. (The process has also been updated now to include an extra step to create your new desired state as strongly and clearly as possible.)
Ian most certainly never told us that we could not tell anyone about the LP!! He told us from day 1 that we would have to get used to doing it anywhere and everywhere, including in front of people. We did discuss how it is a bit hard to explain what the LP is. Although to anyone who is familiar with neurolinguistic programming it would be a no-brainer. You are learning to create new states at will, and directly changing your physiology. Very powerful, very simple. But if you don't apply the process, you can expect no results and you need to keep doing it intensively for a while to build those new pathways in the brain.
We also discussed that the time frame is different for everyone. Personally I had improved a lot by the end of the 3 days, but I've seen much more dramatic improvement since I got home and had more time to absorb what I learned and keep applying it. For some people it takes 6 months to get on track. You just keep doing it. Every time you feel like shit you need to use the Process. And Ian made it clear to us that the times when we feel most stuck and blah and least feel like using the Process, is exactly when we need to use it.
Learning the Lightning Process and using it has empowered me to regain my health to the extent that I feel totally reborn. Yes it was expensive and it wasn't easy at first, but it's been so totally worth it. And if one more person calls it "positive thinking" I might scream!! Please, go and read a book about NLP. It is not positive thinking!! I hate affirmations and that kind of crap, they are useless. This is something else entirely. It is about taking responsibility. The LP can give you the tools but it's up to you to use them.
Thank you so much Pip my daughter has M.E and he have tried everything. we are sending her to do the LP next month, and when i had read Sally experince i must admit i sated to worry.
I will do anything to make my daughter better to watch her not being able to go to school and to be in so much pain it breaks my heart.
So again thank you i will be sending her and i know this is going to wotk she is going to get her life back.
Hi Sonia, though the lightning process obviously works for some I have also seen it being devastating for others as the evangelical belief that is encouraged can cause people to push themselves way beyond sensible limits and cause them to become much worse than they were before they did the process. I do think that it's one of a handful of therapies following similar paths about how to calm down a runaway 'flight or fight' response.
I would recommend looking at Gupta Amygdala Retraining combined with the Emotional Freedom Technique as a gentler, cheaper and less risky way to approach the same problem.
If your daughter does go ahead with the LP I really would avoid anything to do with 'prooving' your belief in the technique by jumping straight back into things.
Best wishes for you daughters recovery.
There is no such thing as magic. The lightning process is not magic either but a receipt of hard work to get better. People are different and illnesses as well. And as others have stated the state of mind is very important in doing the lightning process.
I attended the lightning process in october last year, and I was at first also very disappointed about the appearant simplicity. But I was very dedicated to trying it out and it helped me a lot. And alrady first day I could feel how I got sudden energi from practicing LP.
After suffering from ME for 8 years I can now finally say I am totally well. That is I am not doing ME anymore! The illness might be there still. But I have no symptomes from it.
I contribute this half to LP and the other half to moving to a much healtier and stressless enviroment.
I had a great trainer in London and learned a lot from the stay, not only to help with my ME but also lessons that will help in other parts of my enriched life.
LP might not be for everybody and therefore they have a screening process. I also think reading the book about LP that you can order from their website will help people prepare and understand the course before attending is very important. It helped me a lot in understanding the concept before I went there.
Still 85% are said to get better from attending. I am very sorry it didnt help you. But knowing that you are one of the 15% that didnt benefit, maybe you should consider all the other people that thanks to LP have got a new and better life before totally discouraging others to try.
A friend of me went there with her daughter that had ME. The daughter totally nailed her ME and has taken up her studies and new life with such energy - it is almost unbelivable. The mother was so amazed that she tried it on her allergy and asthma, and I find it most amazing that after almost a life time on strict diet she now actually can eat almost anything - thanks to LP.
How is this possible just by thoughts one can say, but the power of mind is strong. More important, there are parts of the brain that controll many bodily functions, by stimulating these parts (or fooling them), they start sending correct signals to your body which in turn changes the chemistry of the body. This is briefly explained during the training.
So many 'fors' and 'against'. What I would like to know if most of the trainers claim to help over 85% why don't they offer a money back gaurentee? They should know that this is a last resort for most people that have already spent a lot of money trying to get better and for many it means borrowing money to attend a course. They seem to be booked up in advance and bringing in a good wedge from running these courses, why, if only 15% dont get anything from this do they not offer a refund??? Surely not a big loss for them.
Loved your review, SallyCats! My personal opinion is that the people this has worked for probably never actually had CFS to begin with. Thanks so much for helping people not waste their $. I wasted over $1,000 doing Reliv powdered drink supplements because everyone said it DEFINATELY WILL WORK. Very discouraging. The only thing I've found so far that helps me is taking the stimulant Dexedrine every day (or I am not able to be out of bed), but I'm still disabled & mostly homebound.
IT DOES WORK. It is very offensive to say to people who suffered for years and recovered through the Lightning Process never had ME! How do they know? Do they know the individuals intimately? I was almost bedbound, had severe visual and hearing sensitivities, joint pain, muscle pain, blurry eye sight, swollen glands, head, eye and neck pain, unable to read, watch tv. By day three all pain had gone, sensory sensitivities gone, fatigue largely gone, exercise tollerence increased rapidly over the following months. If this isnt evidence for it working I dont know what is!
I see that the LP promoters and pushers have emerged from the murky depths to say that LP works for ME. Well, no it doesn't, it only works for those misdiagnosed people told that they had ME when they had/have anxiety issues/conditions. Good luck to them for getting better but they sure didn't have ME. Don't believe the expensive hype guys. To the above guy saying it's offensive, well matey, it's highly offensive to push pseudo-scientific clap-trap which is very expensive (needlessly so) to people who are desperate to get well and also to insinuate that those with ME who don't get better from the LP do so because it's their fault or they didn't do it right or, or or ad nauseum.... DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THIS LOUSY SCAM WHICH IS MAKING SOME UNSCRUPULOUS PEOPLE RICH.
Well said James!
Pip wrote:
"First of all, the Lightning Process is just that, a process. Like driving a car, or any skill, it is not something that "works" or doesn't.
Well here we have all we need to know about LP's definition of "ME" and ME sufferers. Apparently ME sufferers are not in fact sick with a serious enteroviral disease (classified as a neurological disease by the WHO), but just ignorant of how to "drive their cars". Manna from heaven for the money-raking life-coaching narcissist quacks and the psychosocial zeitgeist that happily allows these parasites to thrive.
No Pip, in genuine ME, the car's engine and fuel lines are well and truly smushed and no amount of "driving skills" or "good behaviour" etc is going to fix that, certainly nothing that involves ignoring the profound biological activity limitations. There are now hundreds if not thousands of research papers demonstrating pathology, and in the words of Komaroff et al, this argument should be over.
Sufferers like the late Sophia Mirza and Casey Fero did not die from a lack of knowing how to live, "stuckness", "wrong attitude", "faulty beliefs" or "deconditioning". To perpetuate these myths is an offense to their memory and dangerous for those struggling to still survive. The evidence is there in the spinal tissue and/or heart muscle.
There are plenty of services for people with genuine mental illnesses (now including LP though ppl shouldn't have to pay for it) so there's no need to hide behind M.E. as if it's some kind of politically correct shield. It's a disease not a charity. I don't blame anyone for wanting to "get out" of the abuse ME receives but you might have the decency not to heap more misunderstanding on the rest of us by abusing the term.
Perhaps some of the more charitable/deluded LPers would be quick to deny their denial of disease abnormalities and refer to CBT quackery that also makes extravagant claims of reversing brain injury etc. But IIRC Phil Parker was quite hostile to the concept of chronic viral infection. Will he be brave enough to "have a go" at AIDS next? Not likely.
To keep alluding to ME yet use the language that LPers use e.g. "I didn't have ME I was just 'doing' ME" is ridiculous, transparent and exploitative. In fairness though this situation wouldn't have come about without the bigotry and scientific incompetence of the CDC's "fatigue" moguls and UK CBT school propagandists, redefining "ME" into "CFS/ME" and meaninglessness.
"I was almost bedbound, had severe visual and hearing sensitivities, joint pain, muscle pain, blurry eye sight, swollen glands, head, eye and neck pain, unable to read, watch tv. By day three all pain had gone, sensory sensitivities gone, fatigue largely gone, exercise tollerence increased rapidly over the following months."
So you were almost bedbound with severe symptoms and exercise intolerance yet you managed to attend and keep up with an intensive three day course designed to push you beyond severe symptoms and exercise intolerance by ignoring them? And you didn't think it strange how much this ideology conflicted with your own experience? None of these symptoms are unique to ME BTW. You left out some of the more defining ones which people with conversion disorder probably won't have heard of. And you know as well as I do that the chances of being able to prove that you really did have ME in the UK are minimal as the appropriate tests are not being done.
Fans of LP may also wish to consider that before this fad came along, there were testimonials for many other miracle cures. Likewise many of these sufferers were misdiagnosed too. The number of so-called cures touted for a disease are in proportion to its incurability.
Go ahead and live your bloody lives, if it's such a success and you're in such control of your fates what do you care so much if others don't agree with you? Because there's profit involved? It's odd how so many of the just-glad-to-be-better become evangelists...
I Have to say, I am shocked at the spiteful playground tactics that seem to be creeping out here.
I have done the Lightning process myself, and firstly am shocked at sally saying that we were told that we were not aloud to talk about it, when that was not the case at all!!!
And that it is called a miracle cure, when it is not! It is a training programme, "and they clearly make sure you know this when you are being interviewed"
For those of you who are spitefully saying that those of us never had ME in the first place. you should be ashamed of yourselves!!!
Who are you to judge so heavily???
are you doctors yourselves?
have you seen our MRI scans and all other test results we have had in the past?
have you been at our bedside when we couldnt even lift a cup?
or chew our food?
or listen to music?
look at daylight?
You are in no position to make such a statement just because it dosent fit into your own belief system.
Esspecially knowing How Me can affect people differently, and having dealt with it yourselves.
We have gone through pain and suffering for years - the same as you!
Would you like me to list the 40 plus symptoms i was experiencing???
I suggest you open your minds!.... that would be the first step to recovery!!!!!
The lightning process helped me get my life back! although i still do certain symptoms, they are nothing compared to what was before. And i feel the need to point out the only reason i am still experiencing some minor symptoms now is because I havnt been using it consistently! something we are also told! "If you are not consistent in using it, your results will also not be consistent"
You are changing neurological pathways! which takes 30 days! scientific fact!!!! go look it up on google!!!
I suggest you go get yourselves a book on NLP before making such heavy accusations!
or better than that....why dont you find an LP pratitioner and speak to them about it over the phone.....
and have some questions answered!!!
Peace
If anyone is going to say they're recovered, I want to hear how many hours they're working per week and what sort of work it is. If you're "just" a housewife/husband, you may not be testing your limits. Similarly if you give LP courses once every few weeks.
So please tell us how many hours you are working per week and the type of work.
Even if the Lightening Process does work, which I doubt, £550 is extortionate. Phil Parker and his cronies are making a forutne out of vulnerable people. How does he explain the many ME epidemics if it is all about negative thinking?
If you want to know about the real physiological problems people with ME have visit Byron Hydes website http://www.nightingale.ca At least Dr Hyde has spent years investigating ME and has examined thousands of people with it. Something Parker and Co cannot claim.
Isn't it interesting how all the posts I have read that are so damming are by people who are stil living with the condition,and happy to "make do" rather than open their mind. seems to me there is alot of personal fear here.Having having an " unhelpful subconscious thought" in relation to keeping you in the loop of ME is NOT the same as being a negative thinker. Self Talk is the most powerful tool it can create anything in your life. I have tried most things like others. I KNOW and have known that adrenal exhaustion has been at the root of my problem It seems sensible to me that if I can break the patteren of my "unhelpful thhoughts" that overstimulate my adrenal glands £600 or 6,000 to get my life fully back would be worth it. However, it is MY adrenaline, My life, my responsibility. perhaps all the anger and fear i see here is because those of you prefer to carry your comfort blanket of ME at a subconcious level.
I haven't done the LP, as I am suspicious, and scared in case it goes wrong, in case it is unpleasant, in case it doesn't work etc. Like a lot of people here I suspect. However, I have read a lot about the physiological impact of mind states/neurotransmitter patterns, so I have no problem believing that it could work scientifically. I just wanted to say, I agree with the point that it is possibly a question of personal responsibility. Who says that other people eg doctors can or even should make us better when we are ill? I know it is a legal right or whatever in this country, but that doesn't mean nature goes along with that, sometimes the doctors just don't know how to help, then we have to help ourselves.
One thing that does confuse me though, is that the people who say that ‘people who get better from the LP don't have me/cfs’, how do these people making these comments know that they themselves definitely DO have me/cfs, and that they definitely DON’T have the same thing that those people who recover have, considering they appear to have the same symptoms/immune disfunction/nervous system malfunction that those who do recover with LP have?? How do they biologically differentiate themselves from those who do get better from LP - do they just feel their symptoms are worse?? But this doesn't prove anything, in fact it all slightly seems to imply that although there are loads of immune/nervous system malfunctions in people with me/cfs, as there has been shown to be in various psychological states eg extreme anxiety, severe depression, panic attacks etc, it all seems to point to the fact that me/cfs is indeed strongly linked to stress levels/psychological states, unless these people that say ‘recovered people were not ill with me/cfs’, these people can clearly show that they are somehow suffering something completely different to those who have similar symptoms but who have recovered from the LP?? ie individually prove biologically that they are suffering from something completely different, and not just endlessly point to different symptoms, or not-so-different symptoms as often seems to be the case??
Hi Fran...
If you want to talk about The lightning Process in depth, and to bug my brain on how it was to do it, then i will give you an honest experience. Though im not sure how to get my email to you without posting it on here, so any suggestions? sup to you hon.
Good Post!
;-)
And just from another perspective...
A friend of mine Sam has MS and is in a wheelchair. She has an array of symptoms, one of which is severe shaking. She has been like this, and gradually getting worse for years.
This is an apparently "Incurable degenerative disease". Stated by the WHO.
Sam Did the lightning process at the end of August. she has seen many minor changes to her condition since...but text me last night to tell me that she crossed and un-crossed her legs for the first time since having MS. Something That defies the medical proffession considering her situation.
This is proving to be such a breakthrough in the world of MS, that the "MS Association" is now researching this with Mr Phil Parker, who has been invited by the MS Association to do this.
Not the actions of cronies do you think?
I dont feel the MS Association would not even bother with this if it was all such a farse or a money making scheme as some of you seem to think.
Im so glad i spent the money doing the lightning process, and would do it all over again. It was an amazing enlightening experience. And taught me that i have the power to fix myself.
Please watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKn92klPeU
Much peace...
How wonderful to witness the energy turn around on this subject and some real deep thinkers posting.
After research and an understanding of how the lightning process works. I am happy to do the course and the work. As I can see the value for me, the only person i can be responsible for is myself. And thank you Fran for supporting my belief that it is fear of failure, disapointment and the unknown that stops us your honesty is refreshing some of the earlier posts should perhaps read your words and wake up and smell the coffee! instead of doing down something that clearly works!
There is no diagnostic test for M.E. and therefore claims of a cure cannot be verified. .
M.E. is classified as a physical, neurological illness by the World Health Organisation alongside e.g. MS and Parkinson's. it is highly unlikely that a form of self hypnosis and positive thinking, however expensive, can cure it.
Th people in my local M.E. group who have done LP have relapsed badly from being forced by the LP 'therapist' to increase their actiity levels without first addressing the underlying cause of our illness (which has not yet been discovered). They were not offered a refund, they were told they weren't doing it properly (how convenient for the 'therapist'!
Personally I am sick of the LP being zealously touted as a miracle cure, usually by those who stand to gain financially from it. It seems to be sold by a form of pyramid selling scheme and the man who invented it has no recognised medical qualifications.I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole no matter how many celebrities are paid to insist their relatives have recovered from it .
Let's have some proper biomedical research for a serious physical illness, and above all lets have a diagnostic test to stop people making easy money from our illness.
Im Sorry to see yet another negative email, esspecially after all the positive feedback and information from people.."Not celebrities" who have Helped themselves and other people to get better from using it.
I feel i need to strongly point out once again (as a lot of people dont seem to listen), That the lightning process never has been.... or has never claimed to be a miracle cure! It is a training programme (*something that is made very very clear before you start*), and like ALL training programmes, if you dont study or make the effort, then you will not get the results you are looking to get!
The lightning prcess has not been deamed a miracle cure by those who hope to gain financially from it! it has gotten the name from people who have used it and got themselves better in a miracle amount of time, because they understood that the mind ultimately affects the body! *This is now scientific fact and has been proven by quantum mechanics and the like!!!* please do your own research!
I also feel the need to strongly point out! that we were never *Forced* to do any activity above what we could already do. We were encouraged to try new things, and in a very compassionate way.
No practinioner can ever *force* anyone to go away and do anything. So i find this hard to believe. Sorry.
Also the Lightning process practinoner is there for you after you have completed the seminar, so if it isnt working for you, you can call them back time after time to discuss any problems that you may be having, so they can be sorted out and worked upon. something that also never gets mentioned in amoungst all negative the hype! So if its not working for them, why havent they gone back to the practitioner? and if they are not happy with them, then why havent they gone to phil parker himself?
As for biochemical research and diognostic tests...(as ive stated already not two posts up) The MS Association, has had such astounding effects from using the lightning process for people with MS that they are doing there own research on it, and have invited Phil Parker to work with them on this. Which he is doing!
But it still dosent seem to be good enough for those of you who choose to focus on the so called and often ficticous negatives of the lightning process. making them bigger than any of the positives could ever possibly get. because you choose to focus on them, instead of actually making up your own minds, doing your own research, calling up 3-4 maybe more practioners and asking them the same questions. finding people who have done it, and had positive results from it.
Which makes me sadly realise that regardless of research and how many people are actually *getting better from it* there will always be an un-ending array of negative outlooks based upon chinese whispers, fear, and the comfort of not having to change the things that do not serve you, because they are easier to do.
Hi All
Ive been doing some research on the LP and found this interesting blog post from Sally.
I will first state that I am a Neuroscience and Neuropharmacology Graduate as well as studying NLP after Uni. I currently have ME/CFS for 4 years and have done quite a bit of my own study into the various areas.
Here is my opinion.
The NLP Process that Phil Parker and his associates call the Lightening Process can be useful and can help a certain number of ME/CFS sufferers get better from this condition. In fact Ashok Gupta and The Optimum Health Clinic also use a variation of this process. A poster above got it right in saying that the OHC and Ashoks Amygdala Re-training program are much more sympathetic with the process. In fact Alex Howard of the OHC co-created this process for use in ME/CFS when he worked for Phil Parker.
However for Alex it became quite clear that this process is often only part of the problem for a large number of sufferers. And worryingly-the extent that they encourage patients to apply the LP can often lead to re-lapses. This is because the LP is very pushy in its implementation - and from the sounds of many LP patients - there are some sub-standard evangelical practitioners who dont really know what to do if it doesnt work - apart from unfairly criticize the LP patients.
LP is not a miracle cure. It is an NLP process that simply switches off the mal-adaptive stress response present in the HPA axis/Amygdala (hence Ashoks 'Amygdala Retraining program'.). For some ME/CFS patients - there are subconsious continual negative thoughts that are triggering the release of stress hormones in the body-and those hormones over long time periods cause a whole host of problems in the body.
This process is actually very insidious - and often people dont realise it is going on - and reject the idea. However - the experience of ME/CFS is so difficult and traumatic, and people are often so exhausted - it is very likely they are at some level having negative thoughts about their experience.
That is why I would advise ALL people with CFS/ME to learn this process. You can go to The Optimum Health Clinic or buy the Amygdala Retraining Program (and get your money back at the end if you like)...and learn it through there. It is a very useful process to know - and it could really help your situation.
With my current knowledge I would say that doing this type of treatment alone may help 1/3 of sufferers. It will help others tho but not soley. This statistic is from someone 'in the know'...Having heard from many who have done the LP and not recovered (or relapsed) - I think it is highly unlikely that the statistic of 85% is real. What 'is' likely is that the statistic of 85% is a reasonable number for people to believe and still feel compelled to sign up for the course...cynical as that sounds...
I would NEVER take anything away from people who have got better using the LP - they should be applauded - as it is not easy to apply this process rigorously - and they will have worked hard. It is incorrect and highly unfair to claim they did not have 'real' ME/CFS. That is silly because ME/CFS is just a variety of fatigue related issues and differently expressed in many people. The traditional classification is really not useful at all - they just dont understand the disease process at all! This is coming from someone who studied this area as a Scientist. There is no point in clining to the WHO classification-it is much better to investigate the various processes in the alternative world that actually ARE working for people. Yes I know many people that have recovered fully!
There is another issue that is not touched upon with the LP - and that is the role of Emotions in ME/CFS. Some of you may have heard of Reverse Therapy. Having wasted a large amount of money on it myself-I would NOT endorse this treatment - however there ARE some good elements in it. However their delivery is too simplistic and clumsy - and for many like me - again it will not work. Of course like the LP - they use this fraction of truth and usefulness to claim it is THE CURE. It is not - however for some ME/CFS sufferers learning to be more in contact with an express their emotions can be a big part of the picture. Also many ME/CFS sufferers have been through emotionally traumatic experiences that have affected them. This may sound funny - but actually our emotions are a crucial feedback mechanism in our body - and often sufferers have lost contact with this essential resource. If this is compounded over years from behaviors learnt as children - the body appears to have systems in place to alert us there is something wrong - and it appears our suppressed emotional energy can also start to trigger our stress response / HPA axis. There are many cases and people I know who have got better from ME/CFS where the emotional component was the most significant factor.
The Gupta Program and LP do not treat this aspect. The Optimum Health Clinic do. This is not a straight forward fix and can take a while - and it is beyond the scope of this post...
I explored all the traditional alleys before turning to these alternative treatments. I entered as a skeptic - but slowly have worked away and understood the efficacy of these processes. It can be hard for people to understand how our mind can affect the physiology of our body so dramatically - but that is because in western medicine there was a line draw between our mind and body by Descartes. Most now realise this is wrong - and in fact the subconscious mind IS the body - they are as one.
Now, having given some support to the Mental and Emotional stress elements of ME/CFS I will also say that many patients need to receive extensive therapy in the following areas AS WELL as the above.
Mitochondrial assistance
Adrenal fatigue supplementation
Mineral Supplementation
Gut Disbiosis treatment (inc Candida)
Thyroid Treatment
Dietary changes
And more...
The key is that a CFS/ME Patient works on the Mental, Emotional AND physical areas of ME/CFS. This is working on their health from ALL angles. They are often all part of the complex puzzle that is creating the symptoms.
The way that the LP is advertised is unethical in my opinion. Its selling techniques and its in course tactics of 'not talking about' are quite scary. I do suspect Sally's practitioner was not a good one. Also it may have been the case that she didnt apply as well as she could have. But it is also likely that the LP did not get to the root of her particular ME/CFS condition.
If anyone wants to learn the NLP Process I would buy Ashoks program and do it. However considering that The Optimum health Clinci recently won the CAM Magazine 'Outstanding Practice of 2009' award - I would recommend them above all else - as they treat ALL aspects of CFS/ME using a whole host of different therapies configured to the individual-including the physical aspects above. They also dont tell you that you are doing it wrong if you dont get better...that is TERRIBLE treatment!
Good luck to everyone battling this difficult condition...
Much love
x
Yes,Ashok Gupta's programme will be a much better option of NLP for CFS. I am speaking from my personal experience. It's more compassionate, more comprehensive (several technics, apart from NLP and osteopathy, plus his full guidance), much cheaper, plus, most importantly, he refunds you the money if it doesn't work for you. I did it and it didn't work for me, unfortunately. I send his DVD back to him and got my money back. Nothing is lost. Plus, DVD was as my disposal every time I needed it, and not just the notes from 3 day course.
So, if you absolutely need to try it, please do. But don't expect that you will necessarily be cured. There's so much more to ME than adrenaline squirt and negative thoughts. As we all know. I think that only the most naive ones can be tricked into doing LP now. But if you do - good luck to you. And remember - you won't see your money again.
Ira
LP is advertised for free in an almost evangelical way in letters to newspapers, youtube videos, magazine articles etc. etc. No criticism of what seems to me a dubious process aimed at the gullible is ever allowed. Phil Parker's youtube vidoes do not allow comments or ratings.
The people promoting LP so zealously, wrapping it up in pseudoscience, all stand to make large amounts of money from it.
We need proper biomedical research for our physical, neurological illness, not yet more psychobabble - we can have that for free in bucket loads from the NHS.
Bluebottle - why dont you actually find out what the nature of the LP is before slating it? Maybe read my posts above? Ok it is run in an unethical way - but considering 'some' get results from it - dont you think it deserves some research from yourself rather than sitting passive-aggressive in the safety of cynicism?
Its all very well calling for clinical trials - but do you actually know what that entails? It is extremely costly and difficult to set up.
The way the medical system is structured is that any modern treatment usually goes through a period of being rejected by peers if it even minutely steers away from the status-quo. It can take years for novel therapies to be accepted even with clinical trials supporting them. Now days the majority of trials are funded by Universities and/or rich drug companies. Do you want to wait around for that? Or do you want to investigate treatments the ARE working for people? Im not just talking about the LP here. Im saying that the best 'clinical trials' we have in regard to CFS/ME are those trials in REAL LIFE. Studying people who are or have got better.
And dont forget as I posted above that this is coming from someone who has conducted his own research in Molecular Biology.
The wheels of Sientific research move VERY slowly and I for one do not want to wait 5-10 years for a treatment that could help me - to be accepted into the mainstream.
I do know the nature of LP, I have spoken to a number of genuine M.E. sufferers who have been made worse by it.
My personal belief is that those who are finding results from LP do not have neurological myalgic encephalomyelitis, but chronic fatigue caused by a mild mental disorder. That is why a psychological approach has worked for them, but they could have had this for free on the NHS.
There is no diagnostic test for M.E. and it's odd that clients undertaking the LP are so very carefully vetted beforehand.
One of the people repeatedly promoting LP by claiming it as a cure in letters and articles has been Vikki Rimmer, who consistently failed to mention that she was until recently employed as Phil Parker's press agent. I guess that most of the people promoting it (and the other psychological 'cures') here are also financially motivated to do so.
The LP a commercial enterprise and I am extremely concerned about the way it is marketed to desperate, vulnerable people, may of whom live on benefits.
I repeat that M.E. is classified by the WHO as a physical, neurological illness and genuine sufferers can be as positive as they like, they will still be ill. The many pathogens and mitochondrial dysfunction involved in the illness need biomedical research and treatment.
From what you have said it appears you dont really understand the true aspect of this NLP process. It is not merely positive thinking - it is a specific sequence of actions that acts to switch off a chronic physical stimulation mechanism-a physical process going on in the Hypothalamic-Pituitary Axis..
This chronic stimulation is based in the sympathetic nervous system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_nervous_s
The WHO have classified ME as a Neurological disorder - but they do not know the disease process and have no real effective treatment.
If you understand the NLP process that LP and others use - you will see that it acts on controlling the Nervous system. So actually it is not a mental process and it does not mean that if the LP works on someone - then they had a mild mental disorder. That is a cruel and inflammatory comment I think - as many people suffered ME/CFS symptoms for years before getting better from these types of processes. Chonic stimulation of the nervous system leads to a huge set of physiological problems that range from terrible fatigue to Candida to Adrenal Fatigue etc...
I argue this case because it is a common reaction for people to be sensitive about these NLP processes because they believe it insinuates that ME/CFS is all 'in their head' - which is absolutely not the case! These processes use psychology to control the body.
I have seen people argue against this stuff as a defensive reaction - defending their physical experience and the fact that they are not 'mad'. Hiding behind WHO and other traditional classifications - even when the traditional methods are producing no results or decent explanation - and in the alternative field people are getting better.
Yeah Im just another random on the internet - but I ask people - it really pays to have an open mind - especially when the traditional model has little to offer. People need to examine their motives in staying loyal to areas of medicine which are not helping them get better. I do understand how scary it is to have this illness - and how unfair it is to us when people think it might be 'all in our head' when we are so physically ill. I understand how difficult it can be to let go of the idea that western medicine has all the answers-because when we are ill-our way of understanding our situation is like our life . However if any condition exposes the gaping holes in western medicines ability to heal - it is ME/CFS. Western Medicine is better at treating and undertsanding acute disease processes - more functional and chronic illness (ME/IBS and so on) are generally poorly understood.
That is why progressive Clinics like The Optimum Health clinic are getting results and winning awards like the CAM magazine Outstanding Practice of the year award...
Hi,
Just want to say thank you to the "real/orignal" Opinon B poster (Neuroscience and Neuropharmacology Graduate as well as studying NLP after Uni guy). Your points are well put and obviously come from an educated knowledge base.
I will be looking into the optimum health clinic.
The LP has been driving me crazy for a year now. It made me think CFS/ME can be cured by thoughts and holding/visualising yourself differently/more positively so I pushed myself through feeling rough. I'm now feeling loads worse as have taken no real care of all the other aspects of treatment/management, like resting :).
I haven't done the LP because I think it's under researched, over priced and one dimensional. I wish they'd put some of the vast amounts of money they earn into getting proper randomised control tests done. Also, where are the proper statistics? 85% of what, 10 well selected people, or everyone who's done it?
CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) is a much better and safer way of getting to the root of any emtional and pschological issues that may be lying underneath.
Diet, exercise (graded), fresh air and daylight, supplements, yoga, stretching, meditation, regular circadian rhythm, regular rests, not burning out by doing something for too long, something else to focus on (ie a target/goal to work towards each day), acceptance of this new you, positivity towards self/life, good posture, mindfulness of how you are doing an activity and what you're thinking (ie not buzzing at 10,000mph and stressing out) and where possible good friends and family around you. Trying to be as "normal" as possible within your limitations, so you feel you have a life, is, to me, very important.
Thanks again original Opinion B, and Sally for the article.
Best,
Fran x
The Whittmore Peterson Institute in the US have today announced that they have found the retrovirus XMRV in the majority of M.E. sufferers they have tested. This is the virus that causes prostate cancer.They are now drawing up plans to test antiretroviral drugs on M.E. sufferers, similar to those used on HIV sufferers.
Thank goodness there are brave and honest people trying to unravel the complexities of this horrible, debilitating neurological illness from which people have died.
Those M.E. sufferers who think that a medically unqualified 'therapist' with a few hours training in positive thinking and other smoke and mirrors psychobabble, who has bought a franchise and has a financial interest in promoting their product, are actually offering them a 'cure',are welcome to part with their £600+.
It looks exactly like snake oil to me.
Was going to write something....but cant be bothered to bash my head on an ever increasing wall....
Interesting about the Virus. However its quite possible that the virus is yet another symptom rather than a cause. A symptom of a poorly functioning immune system, and thus not the root cause. Perhaps it is a significant factor tho. They did have a relatively small sample at 98 patients.
I will be interested how this research goes.
Yes it does seem some people just prefer to stick with their own beliefs instead of being open to ideas. I have made a quite comprehensive argument and said my piece.
I'm a little teapot short and stout
I just wanted to add my experience having suffered with ME for 10 years and gone on the Lightning Process and recovered. I am of a similar opinion to Opinion B.
I would have been incredibly annoyed if I thought the process had implied that I had not *really* experienced the difficult physical sensations that I had lived with for years. However, the lightning process did not claim this. Nor did it deny links with viral infections. In fact it was put forward as an explanation on the course that ME often originates in a viral infection combined with severe stress.
If anything, the suggestion is that emotional stress HAS a physical impact and to an extreme degree. It can trigger the release of adrenaline, which in turn increases the sensation of fear and nervousness - fight or flight. And after the body has been flooded with adrenaline? Well the body is exhausted, achey after the muscles have been flooded with chemicals, and resources taken up with recovery.
The argument is that in ME sufferers, worries and negative thoughts have become "linked" neurologically to a stress reaction and release of adrenaline (like pavlov's dogs, trained to salivate at the sound of a bell). Every negative thought has adrenline turned on like a dripping tap.
The only way to stop this is to RETRAIN the brain's reactions to stress/negative thoughts. The only way to retrain your brain is to launch a big offensive! ie: repeatedly, maybe 100s of times a day, using the lightning process when you have negative thoughts. And being able to identify that a thought IS negative, even if you think it sounds justified and deny it is negative to yourself at first.
Normally, you would have a negative thought, worry, start feeling tired, sit down and dwell on the thought. The lightning process makes you stop dwelling, think of something else and uses positive physical movements, so using your front brain and motor cortex. So THESE are the mental processes/pathways in the brain, that instead become associated with that initial negative thought.
Eventually, you have retrained your brain and you don't need to do the process often at all. If ever. And it is true, it can work from the start, IF you do to process on every negative thought. So it COULD "work" right away. For me it was a longer process. And your brain doesn't WANT you to do it. I had to fight myself. I refused to believe some thoughts were negative at all.
I am not arguing that every case of ME, however diagnosed is the same. I just wanted to explain my understanding of what I went through on the lightning process. And it turned my life around.
Also, £600? Well, it isn't on the NHS so these people have to make a living. Hopefully one day, the course will be funded. I felt I got a lot for my money. Compared to the amount some people are happy to pay for so many other pursuits. Be careful - that you get a properly accredited practitioner. That is everything. And the reason for the secrecy about the details? Well I understood that and didn't find it suspicious. If you don't get the full course and understand the problem, and understand how to identify the negative thoughts, and fully understand the process, IT WON'T WORK. Yes, they want to stay in business too. Why should they, you ask? - Well most people couldn't do this themselves even given the detail. I needed the course and the full explanation. It was crucial for me.
Apologies for taking up so much space, but I just wanted to add this, after rereading what Bluebottle said.
I have suffered with numerous viral infections in my life, and do feel this was a crucial part of the ME. I had a very bad case of Chicken Pox in my teens, glandular fever, and two types of vicious Epstein-barr viruses. Flu symptoms are what I feel every time I'm run down with anything. In ME it is what I felt everytime someone banged a door or I worried about something.
However, the lightning process still worked for me. These viruses seemed to be activated when I was stressed and run down. The process taught me a different reaction to negative thoughts and stress. It was HARD work, doing all those processes. Very. And you'd expect some hard work to get better from something that can ruin your life. The viruses haven't left me of course. But they just don't affect me anymore. I don't mean I don't still get outbreaks, I just don't care or worry when I do. And as a result it takes a normal course and goes away. Like it would for anyone.
Again, not in any way a comment on what might be found regarding the new research, but just my experience.
Opinion B1 is obviously selling LP here.
xmrv is a retrovirus similar to HIV, LP will not cure it or the many pathogens that the body cannot rid itself of because of it
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8864348
"we don't want to hear any more about depression or 'it's all in the mind', that game is over...
....we need to take this virus as seriously as HIV..."
Soon we will have a diagnostic test and quacks will no longer be able to make themselves rich from us.
My God bluebottle...
i cannot believe that you are so damn assuming
....and are being very judgemental.....
have you read anything of anyones threads?.... at all?
No-one here is saying its ALL IN THE MIND! they are saying the mind and the body are CONNECTED!
Do you Deny that???
you are picking out bits and mis-enterpreting them.
OpinionB1 didnt even mention depression, yet you have added that word in.
And because there is more than one person giving the lightning process a thumbs up its almost like you cant stand it, so then pull "Opinion B1 is obviously selling LP here"
I mean im totally gobsmaked at the rudeness to be honest...
No-one is denying ME bluebottle.... they are simply sharing how they have been helped by the process.
But you know what?
Your not even interested in it!!!
your only interested in slating it .......period!
im amazed!
I suppose LP witchdoctors will claim that negative thinking has caused the retrovirus, now thought to be thought to be the cause of CFS/ME, to somehow spring into being. Duh.
It's true, of course, that the brain and body are interconnected systems (see the placebo effect). Depression can adversely affect the immune system, but no one has ever proved that thinking happy thoughts can rid the body of a physical illness. And anyone who tells you that CFS/ME is not a physical illness doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. Where are the peer-reviewed studies into the Lightning Process? People who refuse to let others try to replicate their "results" in clinical trials almost always turn out to be quacks.
People with all kinds of illnesses, including CFS/ME, spontaneously recover. That doesn't mean that there's a causal relationship between whatever they were doing before they recovered and the remission of the illness.
Ill people tend to seek out cures when their symptoms are at their worst, and will invest so much emotionally in the cure that they will forget that their symptoms have always fluctuated, and the only way from "worst" is towards "better".
See "reversion to the mean". See "correlation does not imply causation".
People are getting rich off the general populace's ignorance ("ignorance" is not a pejorative, we're all ignorant of many facts) of basic statistics, or what counts as a proof (anecdotes most certainly do NOT constitute any kind of proof).
Read Ben Goldacre's "Bad Science" book & blog, also Simon Singh & Edzard Ernst's "Trick or Treatment" & arm yourself against those who would get rich from your ignorance.
Don't throw your dollies out the pram,I only mentioned depression to quote Dr. Mikovits from the link posted.
She's Director of Research at the Whittmore Peterson Institute, a non-profit making institute in America where they are doing exciting biomedical research on M.E.
from the publication Private Eye
"ME sufferers were stunned recently to receive threatening letters when they posted their views on the "Lightening Process", a programme that allegedly produces "amazing results" for people not only with ME but "anxiety, panic attack, over-eating, low self-esteem and guilt" too. When sufferers started reporting they had paid £600 for a course that did not work for the, they received warning of defamation proceedings if they did not recant."
(issue 1248, p10, about halfway down the "Legal News" section)
Mind - I just want to say I am pleased you also responded after my post, otherwise I don't know what I would have thought!
I don't think anyone can have actually read what I said. I was trying to give a useful perspective in the hope it might help someone. All I can say is that my life was ruined by ME, I couldn't leave my flat without clutching and stair rail and crying, I suffered agrophobia and eventually was too physically exhausted to go out at all. I was very ill for 2 years and unwell in total for 10. It was a VERY physical thing.
I found a way to get my life back and it was the lightning process. I'm sorry if some people are annoyed by that. Feel free to assume what you have isn't what I had, but please don't accuse me of "selling LP" or lying. I was diagnosed with ME/CFS and nearly everything about my condition fits with every other story I have read.
If I had come across the kind of responses here when I was really ill, in reponse to a genuine effort to share my experiences, I would have given up completely!! Only pleased I didn't meet some of you guys at that time. Phew.
Agrophobia is a mental condition.
Thanks for replying - although, agrophobia was only one of the symptoms I mentioned. It was a bit unclear; I was just listing examples to ensure people I wasn't making up my condition for some reason after the earlier responses. The agrophobia came about as a result of feeling so tired and unable to cope. I was scared I would walk half way to my destination and then have to stop and not make it home again.
The mental and physical, including stress, fear, anxiety, viral outbreaks, exhaustion were intricately linked.
Dear B1, When I list my M.E symptoms they are, exhaustion, deep muscle aches, very heavy legs, light sensitiivity, digestive disturbances and in the early days I had a fever every night and severe brain fog. Your list does seem to put the emphasis on the mental side. I'm not denying you had exhuastion and the LP cured you but when I went to the LP I didn't have the mental symptoms and despite doing everything they said it did nothing for me you need to accept that it doesn't work for everyone no matter how sincerely they do the process.
Ali Newton says:
5 months ago
Hello Sallycats Many thanks for writing about this in a very readable qnd informative way. I have wondered what actually happens with the LP.and I now know. Im not surprised it doesnt work for lots of people! Wishing you well. Ali.