The Other Evolution of Religion
79
Egg a Car for Christ
I have a license plate holder on the back of my car that proclaims:
Jesus was a liberal Jew
You can purchase one for yourself if you like, plus lots of other cool heretical merchandise, at www.landoverbaptist.org. However, don't go there if you are a fundamentalist Christian and are easily offended by parody. If you take your religion deadly seriously, and truly believe you are here to save as many souls from damnation as you possibly can during your short span on this earth, don't, I repeat, don't visit the Landover Baptist site.
There! I've pretty much guaranteed that every fundamentalist Christian who reads this hub will visit Landover Baptist. My work is actually done now. Nevertheless, I have lots more to say on this topic so I'm going to keep on a-sayin' it right here in this hub!
Hallelujah! Pass the mustard!
I bought this license plate holder because I grew up deep in the heart of the Bible Belt, and since I live here and have lived here for many years, I have been clobbered over the head by Bible-wielding Bible-thumpers so many times now that it was either buy that plate and display it openly, or buy a helmet.
Those were my choices.
When I lived in Indiana, having this message on the back of my car meant that every morning there was spoiled food, rotten eggs, or last night's milkshakes spewed all over my windshield and hood. (Apparently throwing spoiled food at heathens is an important part of contemporary Christian worship.) Sometimes the food ended up on the side of the house too.
Now that I live in a blue state and in a fairly liberal town in a blue state, I am more likely to be accosted in supermarket parking lots with hugs and handshakes from people who agree with me. In fact, it just happened yesterday. I was walking into the supermarket and this guy was grinning and leering at me. I thought, oh God, now what? He approached me awkwardly, still grinning weirdly, and for a second I worried about my next move. Scream? Hit him with my purse? But no, he had read my Landover Baptist plate and all he said was, "Amen! I love your license plate!" I breathed a sigh of relief.
I forget it's even back there now that I live around normal people.
Such is the current state of the American religious landscape. Uncertain, extreme, at times more than a bit violent; filled with unstable Christian zealots who claim to be persecuted,all the while egging automobiles that belong to old ladies (me) and scaring people with crazy ideas.
How did this happen?
It might shock you to know that, historically speaking, religion has not always been this scary.
Prehistoric Goddess Worship
Archaeologist Marija Gimbutas created enormous controversy the late 20th century with a series of books that made a compelling case for widespread Goddess worship in Neolithic Europe. Gimbutas believed that Stone Age societies not only worshipped a female deity, they also were organized on feminine priniciples of peaceful sharing, gathered and grown food, social tolerance, matriarchal lineage, and art.
The Neolithic period dates back to 8500 BC. While some archaeologists continue to take issue with Gimbutas' theories, they have gained more and more acceptance, both with male and female academics, as time goes on. What is irrefutable is the preponderance of female religious images from that time period as opposed to male images. Statuettes like the one in the photo accompanying this hub were found in every Neolithic household.
If Gimbutas's theories are correct, that makes Goddess worship the oldest known religion on earth.
Note that the Bible had not even been written at this point. The Bible back in those days was not even a gleam in a bloodthirsty Semitic warrior's eye. And yet, even without it, people got along, baked bread, created beautiful art and jewelry, and carved statuettes of Goddesses.
It is not known if they egged cars, but evidence collected at this point suggests that they did not.
Hinduism: The Oldest Surviving Religion
Hinduism is hands down the oldest surviving organized religion in the world. No one is certain of the exact age of the Hindu religion, but it can be tracked back at least 4,000 years, and significant evidence suggests it is as ancient as 7,000 years, which puts it very close in time to Neolithic goddess worship.
Hinduism is a rich, complex religious tradition with hundreds of Gods and demi-gods, thousands of forms of devotion and religious practice, and a complex cosmology that is founded on an overarching benevolent energy that Westerners would most likely call God. In the Hindu tradition, we are all small parts of God, or in some variations (I like this one especially) we are the dreams of God.
We literally are God, dreaming.
Although a few small sects within Hinduism (and there are thousands) do proselytize (the Hari Krishnas at the airport for example), for the most part Hinduism is not evangelical. If you are drawn to Hinduism and want to practice it, that's fine, and if you are not, well, maybe next time around. The cosmological world in Hinduism is a great turning wheel that starts and ends and starts again and again, for all eternity.
Buddhism, by most historical accounts, was in its early days splintered off of Hinduism, started by a Hindu guru and sage named Gautama Buddha. Buddhism is about 2,500 years old, predating Christianity in roughly the same way that Chuck Berry predated the Beatles.
Buddhists do not worship Buddha. They follow the teachings of Buddha, which are designed to instill compassion for others and liberate all human beings from suffering. Because Buddhists do not worship a deity per se, evangelical Christians often describe them as "Godless." This is incredibly ignorant. At the level of practice, Buddhism and Christianity are more alike than different. Both are guided by a belief in the interconnectedness of all things and a dedication to mercy. It is only at the level of crude theological misunderstanding that anyone could talk about the Buddhist faith as if it were some form of pernicious social problem.
For a time, I thought I would become a Tibetan Buddhist. I thought this because I had been drawn to the teachings of the first American Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron, a follower of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, the guru of the Beat poet Alan Ginsberg and his friends. At the time I found her book, The Wisdom of No Escape, I was suffering mightily over seemingly unfixable and unspeakable family tragedies.
Pema Chodron's books helped me, but I soon realized that there were no Buddhist centers in my part of the US. When I asked why that was, the director of the closest center (in Chicago) explained that every time they tried to open one in other parts of the Bible belt, they became the target of so much Christian violence that they soon had to close. Since they had limited resources, they decided to focus on parts of the US where no one egged, bombed, harrassed, or tried to shut down their meditation centers.
As I began to accept my broken family as it was, and learned to open myself up to whatever life might bring me, sweet or salty, pleasurable or painful, dog or cat, egg or milkshake, I did move away from Tibetan Buddhism. Buddhists are fine with that, taking the Hindu approach to religious conversion. Even the Dalai Lama tells Westerners to stick with their own faiths if they can, but if they are drawn to Buddhism to take what we can use, and leave the rest.
I put this single question to you:
What kind of religion needs a really hard sell?
Monotheism: One Stop One God
Christianity is a branch of Judaism that grew into its own separate relgion over the course of 2000 years in much the same way that Buddhism started out as a branch of Hinduism and grew into its own faith over the course of 2500 years. Most of the Bible, the Old Testament, is a Jewish text. Jesus was a rabbi, a radical one.
The New Testament, which contains the teachings of Jesus from the perspective of four of his followers as well as a number of other early Christian writings, is the only properly 'Christian' text in the Bible. It can be read by anyone with 5th grade education in a couple of afternoons. It is a good and decent book, full of parables that teach basic lessons in human kindness and mercy that are fully compatible with the major teachings of most other major religions. Many contemporary Christians seem not to have read it.
Fundamentalism is a form of Christianity that has become very popular in America over the past 100 years. Many Amereican fundamentalists interpret the Bible literally, word for word, often wildly, insanely out of context. Weirdly, Christian fundamentalism bears a strong resemblance to its supposed arch-enemy Islamic fundamentalism, in that both insist on literal interpretation of patriarchal, monotheistic texts, both lean heavily on autocratic male leaders, and both tend to encourage physical and social violence against persons who don't share their fundamentalist views. The irony of this similarity is totally lost on both groups. The rest of us are left with the messy consequences.
I grant you, much as been omitted from this hub on the other evolution of religion. Religion is a huge, vast, enormous, daunting topic of which contemporary Christianity is only a microscopic part.
I did what I could in the space that I had.
Thanks for visiting.
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Comments
Great article! Having been a Baptist for over 30 years,I can relate.
Great hub. Yes, fundamentalism is scary no matter what book you are extracting your source of judgments from.
On the goddess worship thing, in my assorted religious readings, one course I took on mythology went into great detail about the meticulous unwinding of feminine power. The old Cthonic goddesses were scary and had to be undone if patriarchy was going to survive.
The basis was that for thousands and thousands of years, birth was associated with life and therefor women were viewed as closer to the essential spirit of the... whatever mattered. People weren't looking up into the sky in awe as much as they looked upon the earth (Many Native American religions are not entirely unlike this some still so recently as.. well, recently.) Given this awe at the life process, it was natural to hold feminity aloft.
Somewhere along the line, big scary men with spears and muscles and probably some cool inventions to give men their due, began to assert themselves. I don't know exactly why, but the evidence of the transformation can be seen as femininty was increasingly demonized.
If you read Hesiod's Theogony, you'll see how the feminine Gaia is credited with birth first (after Chaos), but then how she becomes ugly and mean, then aranges to have Kronos, her son, to help castrate poor Ouranos, from whose testicles are spawned the newer gods, in a story that is too long to relate without this becoming its own hub.
Bottom line is, we all know how it goes from there and the resulting pantheon, while full of women whose main power was their sexuality, was controlled by the male god Zeus. Check the mythology from there and you'll see that all the real nasties mythology threw up were female, Python at Delphi, Medusa, Medea, Circe, Clytemnestra, even weak-minded Helen. See a pattern?
Anyway, sorry to ramble so long on your cool hub. I love this stuff. Good job.
ah but pgrundy I'm sure you will continue with this tale in other future hubs. a fine antidote to the "other" other evolution of religion. the best line is the one about many contemporary christians not having read the new testament. my favourite book is the epistle of james. i would advise anyone interested in understanding the nature of christian teachings to read it and ponder it, and then read it again. have fun!
This is a very good study on history of religions around the world. One thing you seem to miss is the fact that Jesus Christ was before everything.
Many try and say that these other beliefs came before Christianity, but I tell you the truth. Abraham believed in Jesus Christ, even though He hadn't been born yet in the flesh.
I know many will give you a big pat on the back and that's OK. This is well written. But truth will always overcome lies.
Thank you CJ Stone, Mistress Gaia, Shadesbreath, and Mtnman56.
Sir Dent, thank for reading the hub. Beyond that I have no idea what to say to you. I think we live in alternate universes. Enjoy yours.
CJ & shadesbreath--I will continue this hub of course, so many directions to go with it. The mythology aspect is something I'm deeply interested in.
I also have to say that, I'm angry with Christian fundamentalism for destroying the heart of Christian teachings and turning them instead into something hateful and abhorrent. So I guess, Sir Dent, that I don't hope you enjoy our alternate universe at all--I hope that at some point it causes you so much pain that you wake up and start living in the same universe as the rest of us.
An apology for the thrown food would have been nice too, but i guess that's too much to hope for all at once.
I'm just puzzling about what it must be like in Sir Dent's alternate universe. Do you think it might be like the Bizarro universe in the Superman comics, a weird kind of alternative reality where the Earth is a cube and everyone has superpowers? Precognition is clearly one of them according to our local Ambassador. Myabe the egg-throwing is some kind of fertility rite and you're just not understanding it properly. What we need is some kind of a translation service: Fudamentalish into English.
Just so you all know, I will not get into a debate here with you. If you have a problem with what I believe then that's fine. if you think I beat you over the head there is nothing I can do about that. You can believe I am miserable all you want. Still nothing you can do about it.
There is A way to God. The only way is the one way God made. All others ways are man's attempts. I also know that this hub was written merely to try and discredit me. I wasn't going to say anything other than the comment I made earlier until I saw the comments made after me.
I have nothing else to say here.
Somehow I doubt if sirdent is responsible for the thrown food.
CJ, it all frightens me a bit. I mean, I make light of the egging, but what next? If I say nothing, it is to my mind the same as agreeing that this hateful nonsense is right, or at the very least that I will allow myself to be intimidated into silence by it. Not long ago in the US, 'Christians' of this sort burned crosses on the lawns of blacks, Catholics, and Jews and when that wasn't enough to scare them they hung the blacks,Catholics and Jews from trees or set them on fire or both. Now we're back down to threats and egging and milkshakes thrown from pickup trucks. This is a faith that things that crawl under rocks would reject as way too slimey.
WWJT--What Would Jesus Throw?
Sir Dent discredits himself, I do not need to write anything to discredit the gentleman. I wrote this hub to show that the poison spewing out of the mouths of certain 'believers' is less than 100 years in the brewing. This 'one true way to God' was thought up by some backwoods miscreants only a few generations before ours--"Jesus came before all," my ass. Learn to read? Hello?
I may as well state with authority that the tooth fairy came before all, and whosoever denies it is freely choosing eternal damnation!
SirDent--Confess now that you believe in the Tooth Fairy and save your soul before it is too late! There is only One True Way! Buy now and I will throw in a free toothbrush, but only if you are amongst the first 100 callers!
Here is another good website for those who need Only One True Way:
www.venganza.org
(Yes, I HAVE been touched by His Noodly Appendage...)
rmr--I will never know who the persons who repeatedly defaced my car and my house are. They are cowards. That is why they do these things under cover of night. It's also why they won't engage in a discussion with anyone who disagrees with them.
Freedom of religion does not include the right to freely toss dairy products of any kind. Fanaticism is one thing, but flinging gametes is just fowl play!
whoah...let's keep it civil folks. I personally don't see anything hateful about SirDent's evolution of religion hub, and the apostle Paul also held that Christ was the 'one true way to God,' a far cry from a backwoods miscreant. Also bear in mind that some of the greatest contributions to the civil rights movement came from Christians. It strikes me as a little extreme to compare fundamentalist Christians with the KKK. But it's unfortunate that anyone, whether they be Christian, Jew or Atheist, would throw food at someone's car for a bumper sticker that, frankly, speaks the truth. Pgrundy, compliments on your hub (though I disagree on some points), and as a Christian myself, I feel the need to apologize for the very unchristian actions of others, like food throwers. How lame is that?
NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AT HERE IN YOUR ARTICLE ,, YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME HATE TOWARDS CERTAIN CHRISTIANS,,,, DO YOU YOURSELF KNOW THE TRUE WAY TO HEAVEN,,LUCKILY I HAVE READ SIRDENTS,,HUB,, BELIEVE HIS WAY MORE THANI DO YOURS
I love this Hub beyond my ability to express. People just seem to ignore that qualifying adjective, “fundamentalist”. SirDent seems to be walking a very thin line at the edge of that qualifier.
Your research and info regarding goddess worship is particularly welcome. If only we could restore that paradigm! It’s called “sanity”. I have said over and over to anyone and everyone, Life is God. Not the other way round. It’s a fine distinction but as different as night is to day.
There is a substantial amount of archaeological evidence indicating that even the Neanderthal were more compassionate than modern humans. At least they didn’t toss their senior citizens and infirm to the wolves.
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/N/neand
“In recent years, scientists have discovered evidence that Neanderthals cared for elderly and sick members of their group. For example, one elderly Neanderthal found in Iraq had suffered multiple fractures on the right side of his body and may have been blinded in one eye. Many of his injuries had healed, indicating that somebody must have cared for him for the rest of his life.”http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/prehistoric_life/human/hum
“These cave-dwellers even cared for the elderly and infirm. An elderly male Neanderthal known as 'La-Chapelle-aux-Saints 1' had lost all his molar teeth, making it impossible for him to chew his food. But the bone above his tooth cavities had partially healed, suggesting that other Neanderthals chewed his food for him before feeding it to him.”That’s just a small sample.
Of all the “religions” mentioned I find Buddhism the most appealing since it is more a philosophy than deity worshipping and fairy tales. Can you recommend any good tomes?
This hub is beautiful,in fact a blessing. :) also informative and enjoyable to read. I am honored to have read it. thanks for sharing.
My favorite is when people defend a position by restating the position: My beliefs are true because I believe they are true. Begging the question rocks! I wish I could make arguments fly like this in the real world. I could be the most awesome lawyer in the world:
ME: Your honor, my client is innocent because he did not do it.
Judge: Woah, well why didn't you say so before. Case dismissed!
I am sorry to hear people threw food on your car and house, it might just have been teenagers with nothing better to do. Once some kids sprayed silly string all over my door when I was gone, but I think they were just up to teenage pranks. Kids do silly things like that and that was probably what it was about. It is wrong, but everyone in our neighborhood usually had their house toilet papered at one time. Kids in small rural towns find the wrong things to amuse themselves with because they are bored, and unfortunately in Southern Californian cities it is spray paint instead of toilet paper and food. One day our entire apartment complex was spray painted purple and it had to be repainted. Once a neighbor found his mailbox was glued shut.
jreuter, 'keeping it civil' might begin with not calling one's own way 'the One True Way' at the exclusion of all other religions, which St. Paul may or may not have meant when he said that. The interpretation itself is highly debatable and if put forth at face value, if taken literally and put out there as fundamental and prerequisite, is incendiary.
I think it could be put accurately this way: All KKK members believe themselves to be fundamentalist Christians, but not all fundamentalist Christians are KKK member. The belief system itself encourages people to feel so much more right (righteous) than everyone else it justifies violence. We are also the epicenter of abortion clinic bombings--life is sacred, therefore I will kill whoever destroys it in the is violent way.
On a less extreme note, on a weekly basis I get explanations from otherwise sane people at work about how the world in only 2000 years old because the Bible says so, evolution is a lie because the Bible says so, God hates homosexuals because the Bible says, Harry Potter is demonic because the Bible says so...and on and on.
What Bible are these folks reading? I've read the Bible, the whole Bible, more than once. Have they? Because I don't we are reading the same book somehow?
Right now there is a big fight going on right in this part of the US to stop teaching evolution in schools. Already less than half of the kids who start high school in this state ever finish, and of the half that finish, 25% have skills that will get them a job (should they ever find a job here) like basic reading and math. That means half of all high school graduates get advanced without learning anything. They graduate by default, just by not being kicked out or dropping out, but that can't read well, they can't write, they can't do basic math.
I think if anything I am being more civil than is warranted.
Thank you though for acknowldging the lameness of the vandalism. I rreally appreciate that.
SweetiePie, it might have also been gremlins but it wasn't--if you lived in Indiana instead of California you would know that instantly.
Thanks Amber, Shadesbreath and Coldwarbaby for the encouraging comments.
I will get some books together Coldwarbaby and do another hub about American Buddhism. Lots of Americans are drawn to Buddhism, it's the second fastest growing religion in the US (the first is evangelical fundamentalism).
I enjoyed the hub. While it had an ever so slight negative bias towards Christianty, such is understandable, given your experience. Honestly, I struggle with such a negative bias towards those Fundamentalist sects (and as a result, the two being easily equated, the Christian faith), myself.
It was really the following comments that bothered me, if anything. Specifically, the blatantly insulting manner taken towards a few mild comments in defense of the Christian faith -- not evangelical or Fundamentalist sects, per se, but simply the Christian faith.
Fundamentalists are not blameless in the degradation of their faith (and btw, I loved the irony you pointed out in resemblences between Muslim and Christian fundamentalists), but that does not necessarily mean that we need to get into debate and attack wars with every Christian we meet. Such will solve nothing, as it is essentially like arguing with a brick wall.
I don't mean this insultingly, I mean it literally. They are utterly convinced of their rightness, and do not want nor feel the need to open their minds to an alternate view.
Now, should a Christian (fundamentalist or otherwise) be searching for an alternate point of view, your hub is definitely a fantastic starting off point for such a journey. Good work, and I look forward to your future hubs.
Thanks that one girl for your comments. I think I've said all I have to say about it, and I don't see my comments as negative towards the Christian faith in general at all, but I understand why some people would see them that way. You are absolutely right that getting into attack wars is unproductive.
that one girl, I don't believe this hub is in the slightest bit biased against Christianity. pgrundy makes it clear that she has read, understood and is in broad agreement with the words of the New Testament, surely the only measure of Christianity that matters. The funny thing about fundamentalist Christians is that they are all for having the Ten Commandments on display, but how many of them are asking for the beatitudes to have equal prominence? Blessed are the meek. Do they remember that one? Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice. THAT's Christianity.
BTW Happy Solstice everyone. the 24th is St. John's Day, named after John the Baptist, and usually associated with Midsummer. This is our Midsummer festival as Christmas is our traditional Midwinter festival, the time when the sun appears to move again after "stopping" on the horizon for three days (that's the meaning of the word "soltice: standing still sun.)
Well pgrundy, you appear to have opened a can of worms..! However I agree with you and enjoyed your hub. Your hub also got people talking too bad it was not in a more positive sharing way but anyone who states there is "Only one way" is not very open to sharring and listening so the deck was stacked against that before you even started. I hope you are smiling and enjoying the interaction because some very good comments were shared and the ones that make you think and wonder are the ones worth reading. I try to skip the toxic ones. Thank you for sharing...!
Thank you Lizybeth! Canned worms! Oh my! That's enough to get me back in the kitchen to do some proper cooking. I just got the most intriguing email, and I think I will write about Kali & Shiva next in another Hub. Fear of God? Bwaaaahhahahaahaha!!!! They ain't seen NOTHIN' yet! LOL. Seriously, thanks.
CJ, I almost forgot today is Summer Solstice. The past couple of days have been strange and unsettling for me--really ever since the full moon on the 18th. What on earth is in store I wonder? Well, it's never boring, is it? Thank you for coming to my defense. You are so dashing in that role, and I appreciate it very much.
Well, I'm off to, I think, LIE DOWN. I've been so shaky since seeing my sister in the hospital. So relieved she's alive, so overwhelmed with old feelings. I think I'll turn something cheesy on the TV and just stop thinking a bit---I hope I can find a Bigfoot special or something...
Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to read my hub here and comment, whatever your reaction. Happy Solstice.
"Minds are like parachutes - they have to be open to work."
pgrundy, the full moon of the 18th may have nothing to do with your days being strange and unsettling. More likely the planets that affect you personally are out of alignment. When Mercury goes retrograde is when my world gets out of whack.
Happy Solstice to all.
Thank you JamaGenee, I'm going to check out my planets this minute. Had a good nap, watching a marathon UFO show with my laptop, cat, and dog. Happy Solstice to you too!
OOOh, I like the bluntness and accuracy of JamaGenee's input/comment. Great hub, PGrundy, thoughtfulness about your points seems to resonate behind every syllable. I deeply enjoy that about your writing.
By saying "keep it civil," I was specifically referring to your comments of "spewing poison" and "learn to read." While I realize this can be a fairly volatile topic, words like these simply do not strike me as "civil," or perhaps more appropriately, mature. I hardly consider one holding an opinion on the exclusive truth of a religion to be uncivil, and if incendiary, then so be it. Truth, for example, regarding the equality of gender or race has historically been an incendiary topic, and yet one that has been fortunatley fought for. Christ himself said "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." Whether you like this teaching or not, let's at least call a spade a spade. And concerning Paul, could the interpretation of his words be any less clear? How else does one interpret the New Teastament regarding the nature of Christ? If you desire to use Jesus as an exlempary example for human conduct, at least admit that the apostles and Christ himself considered Him to be the path to true communion with God. 1st John is clear on this. I'm not saying you need to believe in Christianity, but if you're going to rip on people for believing in the exclusivity of Christianity, and then use Christ as some sort of paragon of virtue, at least admit that Christ was the one who taught the very tenants that Sirdent is talking about. How much clearer could the verse, "I am the the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me" be? And no, not all KKK members are fundamental Christians. Generalizations of that sort should never be written. And in fact, can we truly say that someone espousing racism of an anti-semitic nature has even the slightest clue as to what Christianity entails? Jesus was Jewish, as was Paul. If you desire, which I am certain you do not, get to know some KKK members. I'm fairly positive that you'll discover just how far from "fundamental Christianity" they stray. And since when did the human race need ANY belief system to propagate or justify violence? A perfect example is Stalin's (an atheist) five year plan. Anyone can look at any belief system on the planet and find examples of violence attached to it. Let's be realistic: saying that Christ is the one true way is no more an inspiration to violence than saying that there is no god. It is sad, yes, that people will use religion as a justification for violence, but in no way does the human race need that justification. With or without religion, we will always find a way to "legitimately" hurt each other, history is crystal clear on this point. And I'm not sure who you've been talking to, but seeing as how the Bible , and archaeology, clearly indicate the existence of many civilizations predating 8 A.D., who in their right mind would say the world is only 2000 years old? Christ himself was born in apporximately 4 B.C. And if you want to blame dropping academic scores on a proposal that hasn't even been achieved by the conservative right (widespread teaching of creationism in schools), I think you should perhaps look elsewhere for the answer to that inquiry. And specifically, what does Darwinian evolution have to do with basic writing and math skills? Answer me this, how does a child who believes him or herself to be little more than an evolved protozoa who will ultimately expire at death have the motivation to excel in anything beyond the acquisition of wealth and pleasure? And finally, no, the Bible does not say God hates homosexuals or Harry Potter, you read it correctly, but it does say Christ is pretty damn important when it comes to eternal salvation. Why insult those who hold to this belief? Methinks you need to meet more Christians, you've clearly met some really rotten ones, and that sucks.
An honest hub, Pam. I enjoy reading it! I am not into any religion, for me the path of spirituality is fulfilling, helps me to find my owns answers, not what man interprets for me. I was a little disturbed when my nephew passed away, and a well meaning former co-worker tells me, "God is a jealous God, do you not think he would want to take his children back?" I was speechless to think this woman who is highly intelligent, and whom I like, would believe that a God would have human attributes such as jealousy and anger, but I guess we all believe what we need to at our point of awareness.
Didn't know about your sister... may she continue to heal!
Thanks desert blondie!
Jreuter--I'm not talking about you personally. I don't know how to make it any plainer than that. I don't really understand why you are so defensive. A certain virulent form of 'Christianity' has and is doing a great of damage. That is what I think. If you disagree, fine.
ColdWarBaby: you may want to check my hub about buddhism (http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Become-a-Buddhist) for some resources.
Although I trust that pgrundy will be perfectly able to enlighten us on American Buddhism. I myself enjoyed reading this hub. I will not get into the discussion, though. To each his own :)
VioletSun, people get the idea that God has human-ish emotions like anger because in the Bible, He has this whole Wrath of God thing going on. I realize that's mostly Old Testament, and therefore subject to dismissal when inconvenient, but, my point is that's where ideas like that come from I reckon.
And to Jreuter, I would like to say that religion is not required for violence; I'm not sure that was ever put forth in here. I believe the point was that religion makes violence more horrifying because it removes responsibility for the acts of violence by people and passes it off onto the divine. In having the support and approval of God or some Gods, political aspirations become the cause of the people rather than just the leaders. Do you think those guys who blow themselves up every day, or whatever method they choose to use to die with in their jihads in the middle east are doing it because "Bush sucks" or because "Clinton was a jerk" or anything like that? No, they do it because God will reward them and their families in their fight against the tool of evil (Bush, Capitalism, or whoever/whatever else their spiritual leaders tell them is their enemy in the eyes of God, and have told them for decade upon decade and more). They don't die for politics, they die for religion. Now, before you point out that they are often illiterate and unemployed... I know. My point remains the same, they are easily manipulated because of their circumstances, but that changes nothing. They still wouldn't go die for their leader's politics. They die for the God that supports those politics. That is why they die.
Anyway, that's the point I believe was being made. Not that religion IS violence, just that religion suits violence perfectly and has often been the motivation for war in a "peoples'" eyes.
And on the point of Atheism, Atheism is a religion just like any other. Whenever you claim certainty regarding the nature of the divine and establish dogma and resultant social guidlines, you have a religion (sect or cult). To say with absolute certainty that "There is NO God" is to have faith in a "one truth" that is no different whatever from a faith claiming that there is "Only One God." Neither "truth" can be proven by the living here on Earth (old books or cave paintings dismissed for now), and both can be used as a unifying force to bind a nation and its armies.
ShadesBreath, that's exactly why I have stopped calling myself an atheist. I still don't believe in any deity, but I can't deny his/her/their existence either. It is as you say: the ultimate and single truth can't be proven beyond doubt.
Shadesbreath and ananta65--I say the same thing about atheism all the time. My partner says he is an atheist, and I say that's a religion, that the only purely rational position is agnostic, as in "I don't know." He claims to believe in nothing, I believe in (almost) everything. So in a sense we are exactly the same, just two sides of the same coin.
I'm done with the discussion here though too. Ack.
Wonderful Hub. I have recently completed my second reading of the Old and New testaments. I was born into a Catholic family, have pursued a career in science and have still managed to retain my faith. I prefer to refer to myself as spiritual, as the whole organized religon thing gets so "sticky". I highly doubt that God is going to judge each individual based on the particular set of rules they chose to adhere to on Earth. Religious fundamentalism has always left quite a bad taste in my mouth and I really appreciate your insights and opinions. Thanks again!
Thank you matthew for reading it and taking the time to comment. I appreciate you thoughts. All the best to you!
Your heading, "egg a car for Christ" seems amusing; - - but sorry about that; I don't have to wash the car.
I would never put such a notice on my car as you have. It just seems that having a low profile is appropriate in this day and age. But no, I haven't read the bible, however I have read Eric Hoffer's book, "True Believer", so maybe I have some concept regarding attitudes of the faithful.
And don't worry about me. I have made my peace with the hereafter. I believe that time and space have no end. When one thinks deeply about that belief, it become obvious that Socrates illuminated the whole picture (in my view) with his observation: "Death is just one more night".
At any rate, P.G., keep up the good work! And you could get a less provocative license plate holder. With the price of food going up, do your part to save another egg.
What? There's a an argument (again) about replacing evolution with creationism? Just send them to my hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/SteinCreationism !
::wink:: Seriously, though. I appreciate the hub and I actually even learned a lot from the comments.
Thanks An Again and Bud,
Great hub on the evolution 'debate' An Again--everyone who hasn't read it--go read it!
Bud, I'm the sort of person whose reaction to that sort of treatment is to go buy a BIGGER even more obnoxious plate. I can't believe I've made it to 55. It surely didn't happen through any common sense or knack for self-preservation.
"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
Thank you for the quote. I've always loved that verse. (o:
wat about islam?
An excellent read! You reminded me of a very scarey fundametalist woman from my old church. An addict had got clean and was even said to have a healing gift. He slipped up and, as often happens when heroin addicts can no longer tolerate the same amount they used to, he overdosed and died.
This woman was talking about him in church soon afterwards. I said 'At least he's in a better place now' or some such thing, and she replied 'Is he.......?' Shudder. I'm sure I saw fiery coals glinting in her eyes!
Yikes! Sounds like she neglected to engage her brain before opening her mouth. It bothers me when people claim (loudly) to be Christian but behave in hateful, judgmental ways. It's so ugly. Thanks for your comment.
One of the best hubs I've read since I've been here. I'm definitely joining your fan club!
Thanks PWalker!
Mystress Gaia says:
18 months ago
*applauds* This was a terrific hub!