Theory: The World's Oldest Language
87My Theory
I believe that the world's oldest language is Hebrew, and I have some good reasons why I think so.
First of all, Hebrew is the oldest known language still in use today. In fact it is more widely used than all other ancient languages. If it was the first language, it would make sense that it is still in use. Why would the world's first language ever fall out of use?
Another interesting thing is, the Hebrew language has MANY overlaps and intersections, if you will, with other aspects of the world. By this I mean that, it fits into the world like a puzzle, and is one of the only languages that does so. Arabic shares a lot of these properties, although it is a very similar language. I will focus on Hebrew, however. There are three things that it relates to well--concepts of man and God, the Bible, and the periodic table of elements. I'll go into each one in detail below.
The Hebrew words for man and God are very similar. The word for God is Yahweh. However, since Hebrew is an Abjad, vowels are not written in, but are assumed. So, in Hebrew, God's name is spelled "YHWH". These four letters have amazing significance when compared to equivalents in the Bible and the elements. If you take the Hebrew alphabet and "map" it to the periodic table, the H's turn out to be the element Nitrogen. In the Hebrew word for man, one of the H's in "Yahweh" is replaced with the letter that corresponds to the element Carbon. Now think carefully about the astounding significance of this! Our physical bodies are composed mostly of what element? Carbon! We are said, in the Bible, to be made in the likeness of God. Only ONE LETTER differs in the Hebrew words for God and man! Finally, the Bible describes spirits as being "like the wind." What element is 78% of earth's atmosphere made of? Nitrogen! And that's not all. When you consider what the atomic numbers of those elements are, it makes your head spin. Carbon, man's element, is number 6. God's element, as you might guess, is number 7, Nitrogen. Man didn't "make up" these numbers by accident, or because they were convenient. They represent the number of protons (and electrons) already present in the atoms, which was God's doing.
Maybe that was a long way around, but I think it gives excellent evidence that Hebrew is the world's first language. "Coincidences" like that don't just happen, they're intentional, they all have a purpose. And perhaps that purpose is to help us better understand our world.
Also, I would ask readers of this hub to feel free to leave comments. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to give me feedback on my hubs, whether it be praise or constructive criticism, for I gladly accept both.
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You cannot prove Hebrew as the first language with the help of Bible. Hindu religious texts which were composed in Sanskrit are more ancient than Bible. You were trying to prove your theory with the help of alphabets. Alphabets originated much later than the spoken language. Therefor you cannot prove anything with alphabets.
However Sanskrit also is not the oldest Language. If you can consider a dead language in this question, then the Languages spoken in Ancient Egypt, Sumeria, Babylonia etc. are more ancient than Sanskrit. Even in India there were lot of native languages prior to the aryan migration into India. sanskrit evolved in india after they entered India by about 1500 BC.
Indeed, you two are correct that Hebrew is not the oldest WRITTEN language. I was therefore wrong to say that the Bible was the oldest known writing. However, my argument still stands upon the fact that Hebrew is the OLDEST language, regardless of when a writing system was adopted for it. The letters and words of the language existed without the need for writing, which are characteristics that the oldest language would no doubt have. In addition, the basis of my argument relies more on the periodic table than anything, which was conceived by God and simply discovered by man. When the Bible came along, it simply explained the relationships between the elements, the Hebrew alphabet, and concepts of man and God (and how the numbers 6 and 7 relate throughout all of them). I would also venture to say that I can, in fact, use the Bible to support my argument, regardless of the fact that it was not the earliest written text. It doesn't matter what the earliest WRITTEN text is; as I said, my argument is that Hebrew is the OLDEST language, irrespective of when its writing system was added.
I do appreciate you sharing your own thoughts, and please feel free to post anything more you wish to say. I realize that my argument may not be correct, but to my current understanding, it is. Even if my theory is not correct, one thing I know for sure is that Hebrew is the oldest language still being used today, which is another reason it makes an excellent candidate for being the world's oldest language.
The story of Ramayana first written by Balmiki goes back 1,800,000 years when Rama existed. The earth was populated by humans some 2 million years before when the language spoken was Sanskrit. Sanskrit is the mother of all languages. There was no sign or existence of western culture. To substantiate this evidence I ask anyone to unearth the city of Dwarka in India which submerged more than 10,000 years before from the great devastations of Tsunami.
Hmm, unearthing a city called Dwarka in India to prove that the oldest language is Sanskrit? I shall have to try that sometime. I wonder why no one else has done it yet, if it's such good evidence? Also I would be interested to know more about this Rama you mentioned. Anyhow, thanks for the comment.
World oldest language is 1.SANSKRIT,2.TAMIL,3.KANNADA....this is fact as per history..
My friends,
We simply can never know what constituted the earliest language. History will not tell you because history is younger than language. There is growing evidence that the Neanderthals had language and certainly the earliest Homo Sapiens did as there is no other way that knowledge could have been communicated between individuals in such a manner as to launch the 'rise' of man to his present status. I doubt very much that this earliest language was Hebrew, Sanskrit or any other that we can decipher today. What HAS been established is that there are word roots for very fundamental objects and concepts which are common to many diverse languages today and which may constitute the last embers of evidence for an original universal verbal communication system. Language is much older as a human skill than any language we have today or can read today. It has no alliance to YHWH or any other 'gods' because the inventors of language, who may have lived a million years ago if he was a Neanderthal or hundreds of thousands of years ago if he was Homo Sapiens, did not know any of them!
vimalan, thanks for the comment
Dave Roberts, I must say that you are absolutely correct that there is no way to know for sure what the first language was. It is only my hypothesis that Hebrew was the first, and I should certainly say that Yahweh was very much "in alliance" with the language, as you put it, because I should think that the being that created the universe would, at the same time, design a method of communication among its inhabitants, whom he also created. Did He not design our lips and tongues and teeth, the very things that produce our speech? Is it not reasonable, then, to think that he also designed the first method for the intelligent decernment of differences in sounds and how they are combined, which is, in effect, the first language? It seems highly unlikely to me that man simply began speaking and eventually it evolved into some sort of intelligent communication. What does seem likely is that, outside of any sort of theology, the search for a first language may very well reach a dead end, because you've rejected the creator of the language, and therefore, the very existence of the language itself. Then, since no first language ever existed, it is a miracle that any of us are speaking today.
Cybermouse
All very interesting I am sure. But you assume that I agree that Yahweh created the Universe. Unfortunately I don't, and neither do I believe that Re-Atum or Amun or Baalzebub, Odin, Zeus or any other god did. You see, I am an Atheist and see all around me the evidence for evolution and language was a facet of evolution just like the fact of the shape of our bodies and the shapes of the bodies of other species. To an Atheist your argument, and accordingly your theory, are nonsensical as they are dependent upon a belief in a supernatural creator- being (and who created him or her by the way?) for whom there is no evidence.
But then this is a separate debate isn't it? One which I would be pleased to continue elsewhere. But with respect to language, it is becoming increasingly apparent via experiment that chimpanzees and possibly whales and dolphins too have rudimentary languages! Now why would Yahweh give a species a RUDIMENTARY language? If he felt a species needed to communicate verbally he would have provided a fully blown Language wouldn't he? Like he gave us Hebrew according to your theory. The chimpanzees language skills are EVOLVING, just like ours did aeons ago. Let us hope that we, and they, survive long enough as species for us to talk to each other sometime.
True enough, this is no longer a debate about language. I believe in a supreme being, and you do not, yet we are both humans living on the Earth. I will say that were I an atheist, I might be inclined to agree with you regarding the world's oldest language. That is, if I somehow thought that the universe coming into existence of its own accord made more sense than a supreme being creating the universe, regardless of the fact that we have no grounds to base any judgements of what beliefs are "nonsensical" as compared to others. The very fact that we exist could be considered nonsensical, yet we accept and live with this fact on a daily basis simply because it is the way things are. I would also agree with you that this isn't a good place for a debate, but I will leave you with one of my favorite quotes.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -Phillip K. Dick
Exactly, and the Universe does not go away when you stop believing in gods. That is the reality.
Neither does the God I believe in cease to exist simply because I stop believing in Him. The fact that I cannot physically perceive Him makes no difference at all. If I were to look at another human being, I cannot physically perceive their internal organs, yet I know they exist because I see the proof that the person is living, therefore something must be keeping that person alive. Also, alternate dimensions have never been physically proven to exist, but research and statistics from many different fields of science all point to a high probability of there being higher dimensions that we as humans are not able to perceive. If you were blind, there is no way you could prove to yourself that anything exists based on sight, yet you would still know something is out there because you could hear it. I suppose you could choose to ignore what can't be seen and still say that nothing exists, but this would obviously be a narrow conclusion to jump to, given all the other evidence from your remaining senses. Similarly, all my senses give me evidence for God's existence in all the ingenious designs of things in this world, and I feel that I might as well be blind if I treat them as the result of chance. Air cannot be seen, yet if it did not exist, we would all be dead. In my experience, I have found that entities which cannot be seen are the most permanent and important parts of reality.
Let me start by saying, What is more likely, That God has existed for all eternity and came from nowhere; That God developed as we are and came to be as he is now; Or we are developing on our own in a universe that may someday contain (or perhaps does contain) powerfull beings who have evolved to that state; or the Universe has been around billions of years and we are alone, no god (gods) and will someday cease to exist without having ever known a portion of what realy exists.
I find the most plausible to be a state where there are a few living things in the universe, and no God. However, I know that there is a God, He created us in his own image and for his own perpose. He loves us and wants us to learn of him through faith in his son Jesus Christ.
There is annother dimension, Spirit. I can feel it. You can feel it. Enyone who realy wants to know what is true can feel it, and know for themselves that the things which Jesus taught are true.
Im not here to argue, but I hope that someone can read the things that I have written and try it out for themselves.
"For this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." Moses 1:39
Cybermouse and Shadowire,
Air CAN be seen. It can be seen when you breath out on a cold day because of the water it contains. It can be seen in the bubbles when you breath out under water. If it is cold enough it can turn into a liquid. But nothing we do can reveal the gods (or god) for examination. Ergo, there is no evidence for god. Any theory, whether of language or any other concept that depends on faith in a supernatural being for whom there is no evidence is conspicuous by its lack of foundation. It is like arguing for the origins of the patterns of flowers on the basis that we believe the fairies made them!
First...show me the fairies!
Look carefully at the history of the Universe. It began with simple elements, Hydrogen an Helium. These elements formed the earliest stars which had short lives but within which the heavier elements were made. These heavier elements made a second and third generation of stars which made everything of which WE are made. The history of the Universe is a story about the incremental increase in the complexity of matter over time, and by time I mean billions of years. This increased complexity of matter has resulted in LIFE, the most complex matter of all. We are not made of 'spirit' we are made of stardust. While I am an Atheist I am not militantly so. I do not seek to decry your faith in a god, that is a matter for you. All I ask is that you do not seek to answer questions concerning the origin of language or any other facet of the Universe via the employment of your faith....a view (and a faith) which not everybody shares.
Shadowwire, thanks for your comment, I appreciate it :)
Dave Roberts, thanks also for your comments. It has been quite an interesting discussion, and though it could no doubt continue, I don't think either of us would gain anything from it. You have your opinion and I have mine, and since you so graciously do not wish to decry my faith in God, neither will I try to whittle away at your beliefs. However, I feel that since my beliefs do lie with God, that I have the right to also believe that He created the first language. Whether or not you agree is your business, but my purpose in posting this hub was merely to offer my opinion as a possible suggestion. Outside of a faith in God, as you said, my theory makes no sense at all. I hope you'll then take it for what it is--a theory, and nothing more. Please feel free to post more comments about anything. I wish to value the opinions of others rather than cause arguments, so I apologize if I strayed from this path in anything I said to you. It is obvious that no act of mine can change your mind, and therefore I would prefer to be on good terms with you, unless you have any objections.
I am intrigued by the comments of the atheists. Understand this, there is no greater scientific evidence in favor of evolution than there is in creation. In fact, the reverse is true. You see, in Darwin's day, science had not progressed far enough to understand a very important viewpoint that has come into light recently that has shoved aside natural selection; that being the concept of irriducable complexity. IE: there are structures that have been discovered that are so complex, that there simply is no way of having them evolve, so natural selection is unable to answer complex questions about the origin of species. One of those irreducably complex structures is DNA. The DNA code, according to Bill Gates is more complex than any computer code ever written. Stop and think about it, the second law of thermodynamics refutes the chance of DNA arizing by chance. And, by the way, if you wish to discuss the first written language, you might consider DNA as a strong contender, since it pre existed all written languages! So that being said, the new concept of irreducable complexity is an argument in favor of intelligent design as opposed to accidental origin.
Thanks for sharing that! DNA is an excellent candidate for the very first language. I'd recommend reading "The God Code" by Gregg Braden, who seems to know quite a bit about the science behind DNA and how there is a hidden message encoded in every cell of every living being. It is a fascinating topic, and anyone with an interest in details will enjoy the astounding science of how DNA, Hebrew and/or Arabic, the periodic table of elements, and the Bible all fit together like pieces of a puzzle. This book is nothing but truth, and scientific, proven evidence that this world was designed, not spontaneously evolved from lifeless matter.
Hi,
As per historical evidence the Oldest languages which have written forms as from their Origin are Sanskirit and Tamil. Both are the Indian languages, that are prominent on Northern and southern part of the country resp. The fact that hebrew and other languages were also there but they didn't emerge with a Strong and typical Written form. A language is like a body without soul, if its existing or existed without proper written form.In this point, I insist to say that the written form is not the One with scripts but also with excellent Grammers, Phonetical Intelligence, etc.
Hi,
It is not appropriate to say that Hebrew is the oldest language by just comparing and spaeking it with Bible. Even Bible is merely older for 2000 years. Before that itself so many languages and religions existed and still continuing their existence...We know that Hindu religions mythology and epics (older that 6000 years) say that the Hindu Gods spoke in a Language called 'Sanskirit'. The sanskirit is also referred as 'Deva lipi (languages of Gods)'. And also Tamil is having a grand history of more than 3000 years. The most of the words and their phonetical signs of this language are similar to the sounds of Nature. For ex, in tamil the word refers to mother is 'Amma' and we know that animals also call their mother with the same phonetic sound (mmmamma..). And also most of the words envisage the specifying things. So, its unfair to say that hebrew is the Oldest language that too by merely grabbing the evidences from Bible and chemistry. That might be apt for a particular race but not for all.
A fascinating discussion! I too have dabbled in researching this topic a number of times over the years. But I strike a wall with one concept. I am not totally convinced all the theorists have the same understanding of the concept of language. Some refer to language as symbolic sounds. Others do not acknowledge language until there is a "thread" between sounds. So, to try to pin down the first language must first clearly state what that constitutes.
Smiles and Light
Thanks for the comment! You're right, it is important to define what language you are talking about clearly. For my theory, I would define language as any form of communication between humans that uses sounds produced by the tongue, teeth, and voice, whether or not there is a written form of it.
If sanskrit is the oldest language, why isn't the whole world talking and typing in it? If sanskrit replaced an earlier language how then can it claim the title of being the oldest? Sanskrit is complex, showing it borrowed and invented heavily. But from whom did it borrow and copy from? Hebrew of course. But Hebrew is a subset of an even earlier older language, the one from which Adam and Eve spoke. As taught to them by the Spirit that walked in the cool of the day with them as their visitor and teacher. That same spirit walked with both Moses and Joshua. Each time speaking a form of Aramaic that unusual and counter intuitive to what we may think.
Ramayana is a myth! sanscrit also a myth! Dravidian languages are the oldest in indian languages!
ALL I GOTTA SAY IS YOU GUYS ARE ALL IDIOTS, AND I AM THE SMARTEST MAN ALIVE. I CAN INTELLIGENTLY CONDUCT MORE THINGS THAN YOU PEOPLE EVER CAN IN A LIFETIME OF EXISTANCE. MY INTELLIGENCE OUTNUMBERS YOURS A BILLION TO 1. AETHEISTS ARE MORONS. WHY? BECAUSE THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF SCIENCE COMES FROM RELIGION. THE FIRST UNIVERSITIES THAT EVER BROUGHT ABOUT ACTUAL FACTS AND PROGRESS INTO THE WORLD CAME AFTER CHRISTIANITY WAS FORMED. THE FIRST FORUMS HELD IN GREECE AND CHINA DEALT WITH NOTHING MORE THAN PHILOSOPHY; THE FIRST "EDUCATIONAL" FACILITIES WHERE THEORY AND SUCH CAME INTO EXISTANCE ie. - SOCRATES, PLATO (ALL USELESS). ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF SOCIETY CAME AFTER CHRISTIANITY WAS BROUGHT FORTH INTO THE WORLD, EVEN WITH PHILOSOPHERS (ie.- LEONARDO DA VINCI, GALLILEO, SIGMUND FREUD) DURING THAT TIME CHRISTIANITY WAS THE FOREFRONT RELIGION IN MIDIEVAL EUROPE.
PROGRESS WASN'T TRULY ESTABLISHED UNTIL CHRISTIANITY WAS INTRODUCED INTO THE WORLD, WITH THAT IN TURN, AMERICA WAS FOUND (NOT TO MENTION, BY PROTESTANT CHRISTIANS ESCAPING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION). FROM THERE A NATION WAS FINALLY DEVELOPED UNDER CHRISTIAN MORALS, ETHICS, AND VALUES, WITHOUT ACTUAL GREED AND POWER INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS ie.- FEUDALISM. GREECE HAD TRIED TO DO THE SAME THING AS WELL AT ONE POINT IN HISTORY, BUT WHAT DID THEY LACK? CHRISTIAN MORALS, ETHICS, AND VALUES, SAME WITH ROME AS WELL. THE ROMAN EMPIRE INSTILLED GREEK METHODS OF CONTROL AND GOVERNMENT ie - FREEDOM OF RELIGION, AND EVERY REGION IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE STILL RETAINS LOCAL RULERS WHICH WAS IN PARTISANSHIP WITH THE ROMAN EMPIRE, BUT IN TURN BOTH GOVERNMENTS ENDED UP FAILING. CHRISTIANITY WHICH WAS FINALLY INSTILLED IN THE CREATION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, SEEMED TO HAVE PROVEN TO BE A SUCCESS, WHY? FOR ONE, THERE WAS MORE TECHNOLOGICAL AND SCIENCE ADVANCES IN THE LAST 200 YEARS, THAN ALL OF HISTORY COMBINED. JESUS CHRIST HAS TO GET SOME CREDIT FOR THAT, SINCE THIS WAS A NATION FOUNDED UPON CHRISTIANITY, UNLESS OF COURSE YOU WANT TO BE A TRUE ABSOLUTE, SELF-RIGHTEOUS, IGNORANT BIGOT. YOU AETHEIST FOOL, BUT I DON'T BLAME YOU, ITS LIKE BEING EMO, AETHEISTS JUST LIKE TO GO AGAINST THE FLOW TO PISS PEOPLE OFF. CONGRATS!
While I couldn't agree more with most of your points, I don't exactly think that insulting anyone for their beliefs is going to get you anywhere. If you want people to really, intelligently listen to you (assuming you think this is possible, which from reading your comment, I seriously doubt) then you have to give them a chance and listen intelligently to what they have to say FIRST, and then acknowledge that you have indeed heard what they said and interpreted it correctly. Only then can intelligent communication take place. Insults have no place in valid arguments, and neither does ego-centric thinking, which your comment is brimming with, sorry to say. Even if you are correct in everything you said, if you really want people to hear you out, you need to treat them with the same kind of respect you obviously think you deserve. Again, I agree with most of your points; in fact I couldn't have said it better, except to ditch the insults and say it in such a way that you don't begin to sound like some of the names you call others might just apply to yourself. At any rate, thanks for the comment I suppose. Just remember that atheists do in fact have brains and can reason for themselves, and occasionally when they do decide to use their capacities for reason and logic, the truth will eventually make itself known, without the need for someone like you to blare it out to them in a way that makes them want to cover their ears.
WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I LEARNED CYBER MOUSE? THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THROUGH ALL THE INSULTS AND ALL THE HARASSMENTS, AND DEPICT THE TRUE POINT OF WHERE I'M TRYING TO GET AT. A LOT OF TIMES, PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO HUMBLE THEMSELVES, WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE FR*CKING MORONS. IF THESE PEOPLE TRULY KNEW WHAT POINTS ARE IN FACT VALID AND INVALID, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE PAST THE PSYCHOTIC INSULTS, AND SEE THE TRUTH BENEATH THE PRIDE AND THE EGO. YET MOST OF THE TIME, A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE JUST INSTILL CONVERSATION AS A SENSE OF A "POPULARITY CONTEST." IT REALLY DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO ME, I DEAL WITH STUPID, IDIOTIC, IGNORANT, SELFISH BIGOTS DAY IN AND DAY OUT, BUT WHAT DOES BOTHER ME IS THAT THESE STUPID, IDIOTIC, IGNORANT, SELFISH BIGOTS DON'T JUST DIE OUT, LIKE THEY SHOULD LIKE FR*CKING DINOSAURS. THEY REPRODUCE (USUALLY BY MASSIVE AMOUNTS) AND CREATE MORE IDIOTS. I'M SORRY, BUT ITS ABOUT TIME SOMEONE SLAM DOWN IDIOTS WITH A VENGEANCE. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN PEOPLE WERE HUNG FOR STEALING SOMEONE'S COW, OR BURNED AT A STAKE FOR NOT BELIEVING IN CHRIST? THAT'S WHAT MADE AMERICA GREAT, NOT THIS HUGE OVERDOSE OF SEX AND MTV. GOD DAMN THE USA!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JobynUg0ftg
I'M THINKING IF I DON'T SAY WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID, NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO SAY ANYTHING UNTIL ITS TOO LATE, WHY? BECAUSE EVERYONE IS A FUCKING IDIOT. THANK YOU GOODBYE!
While it is indeed sad to see the state of things getting worse by the day, if all these idiots are as dumb as you say they are, then none of them will be able to even listen to what you have just said for more than a second without wanting to run away, much less try to make sense of it. Even if they did try, I seriously doubt that, being stupid, they could see through the insults you have thrown at them and gain any truth from it. Therefore, there is something wrong with the way you are going about it, and frankly, I think your end result is screwed up as well. Do you really want them all to die? Will that really help anything? If they all die we'll be left with you, won't we? You exhibit all the same things you accuse of others, despite the good points you want to make. Again I will say that the only way to truly get anyone to listen to you is to stop swearing and start treating people with respect, whether or not they are ignorant. If you display the same ignorance and stupidity you accuse them of, what reason do they have to listen to anything you say? You say people don't know how to humble themselves, yet you could not even acknowledge a single thing that I said to you in my last comment. Nothing you said in either of your comments was in the least way humble. I suggest you get the plank out of your own eye before you go around taking all the specs of sawdust from the eyes of your earthly brothers and sisters, my friend.
The film "Youth Without Youth" by Francis Ford Coppola concerns searching for the oldest langauge, and beyond that, the first precursor to it, a proto-language.
Historical and science fiction to be sure, much of the language search material has some basis in fact. According to this, there were two-three languages before Sanskrit, but a proto-language could not be found. it is also true that some circumpolar languages may be older than Sanskrit, but research is still underway.
Since the DNA tracking (Smithsonain) and Human Genome projects find that human life began in either Africa near the Congo or near the Middle East (Garden of Eden) or in the Middle East, then that maybe be the site for the first language.
Two or three nations claim to have produced the oldest language, mathematics, science and other disciplines, but older evidence has been available in other locations.
Thanks for the Hub.
wow, cybermouse, what a fantastic hub you have here...mainly due to the comments spurred afterward! I have to confess, though, that I didn't read all of the comments as they are long!
"THE BEST"- I don't think me correcting you will do either of us any good, but hey man, try not using the CAPS. Also, I completely disagree with 95% of what you said and 100% of the method in which you chose to say those things.
Now, on to the real comment- cybermouse, I'm not sure as to the historical accuracy of Hebrew being the first written and/or spoken language, but I loved the thoughts toward the end where you wrote of the differences between the Hebrew words for God and man! Thanks for making me think.
Excellent hub with a lot of interesting comments. Thanks!
Patty--thanks for mentioning that film. I'll have to look into it sometime! Another excellent film is called "Unlocking the Mystery of Life" and it pretty much explains the science behind the intelligent design view. It really makes it clear what the truth about science is. Many people claim to believe that the evidence supports evolution when it really does not. When one does enough research and actually studies it for him or herself, one finds the evidence to be in favor of creationism in some form or another, which in turn points to God's designing the first language as well. My theory is simply that this first language could possibly be Hebrew, even though its writing system was not adopted until some time later.
WeddingConsultant--thanks for the comment. I'm glad you got something from my hub. Most of my ideas for this theory came from the book "The God Code" by Gregg Braden that I mentioned earlier. It is truly an excellent read in which a scientist puts forth truthful evidence about DNA and how everything fits together like pieces of a puzzle. If you can't find one to purchase, at least borrow it from the local library. I think you would really enjoy it.
Bluebird--thanks!
I've read the God Code and a dozen other works on this - DNA is definitely a mathimatical type of language, planned and created.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.... Okay, to respect Wedding Consultant's wishes, I will not type in caps. As for the points I made, I believe them to be valid points whether or not people want to read it or not. I mean after all if people (the truly stupid ones who couldn't get pass the first sentence of this forum and already dazed out after reading Sanskrit; oldest language; historical proof, ect, ect,) could make it pass that first topic and end up reading all the way down to my thread, yet wouldn't give a chance in flying hell to read my thread because I call them stupid or I type in caps, and just ignore everything I have to say, then honestly I don't know what to say. It is usually the educated people who are mostly the idiots of society (moraless, ethicless, selfish, ect, ect). Stupid people who in fact are not educated, usually do what they're told by force of command (normally, educated people with good ethics, values, and morals, do not have any sort of command whatsoever as they are for the most part entirely passive, ie- Cybermouse). Usually, the people who do have a say as to what is what are usually the educated dumb asses (refer to up above) while the educated ones usually just keep to themselves and not say a single word to reach the masses per say, but only the educated dumb asses, or a better word would be jackasses, or other passive stupid people who just remain passive all the same, while its the educated jackasses that usually end up reaching the uneducated masses. All I'm trying to say is there should be some good educated people that says things a bit aggressively to counter the affects of the aggressive educated jackasses, so uneducated people do not end up turning into aggressive educated jackasses because more times than not, uneducated people admire aggressiveness over passiveness, and yes in Christianity (which I fully claim) righteous anger can be used more times than not, as bad as it sounds, as long as it is within the boundaries of love. If you're an educated Christian you should know what that means.
NOTE- I HOPE YOU FR*CKING DUMB FR*CKS IGNORE MY POST BECAUSE YOU SEE I'M KOREAN, LOL, YOU RETARDS.
REQUEST: CYBERMOUSE COULD YOU POST A LIST OF ALL THE FORUM SITES YOU VISIT? I WOULD LOVE TO FREQUENT THEM ALL.
THANKS!
THE BEST--I must thank you for toning down the use of profanity, it makes it much easier for people to read what you have written, whether you think so or not. Also, I would agree that there are unfortunately too many people in power who do not deserve it or know what they are doing. That doesn't mean you need to call them names. Calling them names will not change anything. If you want to see positive change, you need to do something about it rather than complain to normally educated people with morals and values (i.e. Cybermouse). I see the problem as clearly as you do, but I obviously am not as upset about it as you are, and perhaps that makes you a better person. I agree that people who have morals and values should not live peaceful lives and ignore the problems that we are faced with in today's society. However, if you fully claim Christianity as you said, and you truly wanted to use righteous anger in the boundaries of love, which I would agree that you can, how loving is it to insult the people you are talking about just as easily as they would insult you? (for being Korean or Christian or whatever else they can think up) That doesn't seem a very loving thing to do; instead it seems like you are using their own bad methods against them. God tells us to love our enemies, does he not? If they do nothing loving towards us, why should we copy anything they do? What would be loving instead is to take the Christian apologist standpoint and gently and kindly show them where they are wrong, and if they cannot see the truth, pray that God would make it known to them according to His will. Also, I would love to post a list of all the forum sites I visit, if this were not the only one. As of now, it is the only one, therefore I cannot post a list. I was not part of any forums until I joined this one. This website is really my major publishing outlet right now. I do have a blogger site but it's about games and I haven't updated it in about a year, and my xanga site is equally run-down. I just don't have time for those anymore, I barely find time to publish hubs.
THE BEST- As brass as some of your comments were, I think I underrstand the message. And I agree that most "ignorant" people are well educated! It's as if people who pursue higher learning (sometimes) lose common sense.
But I can't talk with you any more because you're Korean. haha j/k
I admire that you're still on here posting comments, though. You should join hubpages! Give yourself a username and contribute in our forums and by writing hubs. I'm sure what you'd write would promote many comments and questions!
p.s. the name "THE BEST" makes me laugh when I read it. Maybe you could pick a more subtle username? ;)
THE BEST--Actually now that I think about it, there is one other major posting I've done that you might be interested in, but it's on facebook. If you're not on facebook you won't be able to see it, but it's free to join. If you're interested, just go to www.facebook.com to sign up and let me know your user name and then I'll contact you on there with details about the posts. My email is cybermouse8[at]gmail[dot]com in case you want to contact me that way.
THE OLDEST SPOKEN LANGUAGE IS THE BIG BANG. IT IS THE WORD OF GOD FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE RELIGIOUS . BOTH ARE WAVES OF ENERGY...SOUND.
ALSO CYBERMOUSE IF YOU FOLLOW THE BIBLE ,TORAH,KORAN... ,THEN YOU WOULD KNOW OF THE STORY OF THE TOWER OF BABLE...THE ONE UNIFING LANGUAGE THAT EXISTED BEFORE THAT POINT COULD NOT BE HEBREW...BECAUSE ALL THE LANGUAGES AFTER WERE MADE TO CONFUSE...INCLUDING HEBREW.
EVERYTHING IN THIS UNIVERSE IS VIBRATING...LANGUAGE IS VIBRATION . TRUTH IS HIDDEN IN THE ONENESS OF ALL THINGS, INCLUDING YOUR QUESTION ON WHAT IS THE FIRST SPOKEN LANGUAGE.COMBINE THEM ALL...IN SOME WAY YOU WOULD HAVE A BETTER ANSWER....THEY ALL CONSIST OF POWERFUL BASIC SYLLABLE VIBRATIONS ....SCIENCE TODAY IS USING COMPUTER PROGRAMS IN AN ATTEMPT TO UNLOCK THIS AND HOW WE MANIFEST MATTER INTO THIS WORLD. WHEN IT HAPPENS THEN WE SEE SCIENCE AND SPIRIT UNIFIED. THIS IS THE REASON THE POWER OF THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE HAS BEEN HIDDEN.LETS JUST HOPE THE RELIGIONS CAN BE UNIFIED SINCE THEY ALL ARE EXACTLY THE SAME, MOST OF THESE STORIES DIRECTLY TAKEN FROM KEMETXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
PEOPLE UNITE NOW
OR PREPARE TO BE XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
So, Gij,j=0 are you saying that the first language was annihilated when God confused the languages at the tower of Babel? I know that story well, yet it does not say that God's original language was lost. It only says that new languages were made to confuse the people. This does not mean that the original language could not exist after this event. As long as the original language is different from the others, it would not prevent the confusion that was the purpose of the new languages. In fact it would help with the confusion. Just because it was the first language doesn't mean it had to cease to exist simply because new languages were created. I believe that it did not cease to exist, but that only a few still knew it, and that this language was indeed Hebrew. To me this makes the most sense. God is a creator and he doesn't annihilate things that are not evil. It doesn't make sense for God to annihilate something good that he created, such as the first language. By annihilation I mean the complete removal from existence.
nope...annihilate.... such finality from an old jedi it is...SO DEFINATE ..I see you are religious ...so i will speak in these terms ...division is the MOST powerful weapon of the "Devil". I SPOKE OF UNITY AND ONENESS. EVEN HEBREW OR I GUESS YOUR SPEAKING OF THE LANGUAGE OF ONE OF THE TRIBES OF ISREAL THE CANAANITES..BECAUSE THERE ARE.... IM NOT SURE BUT, SOMTHING LIKE 11 TRIBES THAT ARE MISSING ...NOONE KNOWS WHERE THEY EXSIST...RIGHT? FROM SOME NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES TO JAPAN TO ETHIOPIA, ENGLAND TO NIGERIA THERE ARE PEOPLES ALL OVER THE PLANET WHO HAVE ORAL TRADITION CLAIMING TO BE THESE LOST TRIBES. CHOOSEN PEOPLE...HAHAHAHAHAHA ..ONENESS. I FEEL THERE ARE CHOOSEN PEOPLE IN ALL THE "RACES" ...SUCH A WONDERFUL FAIR LOVING GOD...NO?
AND DONT CLAIM TO KNOW ANY STORY OF THE BIBLE TORAH KORAN WELL...UNTIL YOU HAVE READ ALL OF THOSE SAME INSTUCTIONS IN TEXT THAT PREDATE JUDISM...WHICH IS ACTUALLY VERY VERY EASY TO DO EVEN IF ONLY LOOKING AT ANCIENT EYGPT...Hahaha BUT THERE ARE MANY MORE.ONENESS
THE TIME IS NOW TO OPEN THE CLOSED AND DIVIDED MINDS.
AS MOSES METEPHORICLY BROUGHT US OUT OF THE CONSTELLATION OF TAURUS (THE BULL) AND INTO ARIES (THE RAM(ROSHASHANA BLOW THE RAM HORN hahaha) AND YESHUAH (JESUS AND HIS DISIPLES OF FISHERMAN) FROM ARIES INTO PISCES.....NOW ...AS EVERY 2000 YEARS OR SO OUR PLANET ENTERS A NEW VIBRATION ...NOW IS THE TIME OF AQUARIOUS(THE WATER BEARER..POURER?...HHAHAHA)....WAVES..LETS OUR BRAINS SURF A LITTLE CYBERMOUSE OUTSIDE THESE BATHTUBS OF THOUGHT GIVEN TO US INTO AN OCEAN OF CONSCIOUSNESS.
I FOUND VERY GREAT YOUR THOUGHTS ON KEMET MYSTERY..OOPS I MEAN CHEMISRY ...SPEAKING ON THE NITROGEN(7NITRO I THINK FIRE) ATOM AND THE NAME OF GOD AND CARBON (6MAN) BEING ONLY ONE LETTER SEPERATING US IN HEBREW...NOW THINK ABOUT HYDROGEN (1 I THINK OF WATER)ONENESS...HAHAHAHAHA..oooo...HYDROGEN IS THE SIMPLEST ATUM 1 ELECTRON , 1 PROTON, 1 NEUCLEUS....EVERY ELEMENT IS SIMPLY A COMBINATION OF HYDROGEN ATUMS ...UNIFIED THEOREM ...CARBON HAVING 6 ELECTRONS ETC ETC ..SO ACTUALLY THERE IS ONLY ONE ELEMENT IN EXISTANCE...HAHAHA ONENESS
WE CREATE WORDS TO DIVIDE...TO SEPERATE OUR SURROUNDINGS...TO DEFINE..THE INFINATE.
IF YOU LOOK AT MY LAST MESSAGE I SPOKE OF HAHAHAA ONENESS.
SOON I FEEL WE WILL KNOW THIS ANSWER YOU ASK ...BUT AQUARIOUS ARRIVES SOMETHING LIKE 200 MORE YEARS SOOO .......
IN THE MEAN TIME LETS START TO CHANGE OUR MIND SET...AND STOP THE WARS OF SUFFERING PLAGUEING OUR UNUNIFIED RACE.
ONENESS
Gij,j=0, I disagree completely with your statement "Don't claim to know any story of the Bible, Koran, or Torah well." First of all, I do not believe that the Torah or the Koran were God-inspired in any way. If prophecies have been fulfilled from them I might begin to investigate, but as of today I am not aware of any actual proof of anything being divine scripture except for the Bible. I definitely have the right to claim to know any story in the Bible that I have read, and I have most certainly read the tower of Babel story. I know for a fact that nowhere in the story does it say that the first language fell out of use after the languages were confused. If you don't believe me, you can look it up yourself on any good bible reference website--the story is found in Genesis 11:1-9. Also, nothing you said was even halfway relevant to the first language, let alone the tower of Babel. If you're going to change the subject to metaphysics or superstition, then at least provide some kind of transition. I couldn't follow half of what you said and I certainly don't understand how it relates to the first language. Please try to use clearer language and a more structured response in the future, and then I might be able to understand what you're saying. Also I would really like to know what is so funny that requires you to have "HAHAHAHA" strewn throughout your comment. I might add that it doesn't contribute a whole lot to your credibility!
An interseting Hub excelent points through out, Cybermouse I mite recomend checking the Torah out as it is just the Old Testement (remember the Jewish dont give validitay to Jesus so no new testiment) it will give credability to what you say and as for the Karan Or (Quran) it lacks the structure of the bible but also says the same things based again on the old testement. Worth looking at as points of prophetic fullfilment. The origin of lingustics is traaceable in art works and symbolic structure in essaance it is the ability to communicate orgins and destinations and the question arises was it written in the stars before the creation of man as well as imbedd in the inermost parts of our beings (DNA). Pleased to read all views and greatfull to grow in understanding.
laughter.....love.....hahahaha oneness. read my statements closely . no superstitions . bisous
Questioning--Thanks for the comment. While I do have an open mind and I believe that if I were to read the Torah or the Quran, I would no doubt learn from them, I also believe that nothing can best the Bible itself, and I reserve the right to believe mostly and fully in the Bible as opposed to the others. Even though the Torah and/or Quran may or may not contain useful insights, there is nothing better than the Bible, and my thinking reflects this.
Gij,j=0, perhaps I was mistaken in saying that you were superstitious, but your comments were very hard to interpret and made little, if any, sense. This is what I meant. I couldn't think of a better word for describing what you had written, and my point was that you said hardly anything about the first language, and went into a subject that I am not interested in discussing, at least on this hub.
Cybermouse,
After reading each and every comment, all I can say is, not only "May The Force Be With You" but "The Force IS With You!" Definitely!
You've got your head screwed on straight and I don't care what anyone else thinks! Neither do you, and that is one of your strengths, indeed, you have many, my friend. KUDOS!!!
Excellent hub!!!
Dear One, great work and potent insight. You might find the works of Zechariah Sitchin of great use in your ever-continuing search for your personal truth.
By the way, your mother sent me your way after reading my Hub on the Edison Trait ~
Toni Elizabeth Sar'h Petrinovich PhD
www.sacredspaceswa.com
www.angelichuman.com
Bluebird--Thanks very much! That rings true even more so because I like Star Wars.
sacredsarrah--Thanks for your comment as well! I shall indeed check out Zechariah Sitchin.
Hi, I've been reading all of the comments, and to be fair most have valid and reasonable arguements. I'm not going to enter into the debate, but would like to pose a question/thought to the topic.
I used to go to Sunday school as a child and I kind of remember a story about the Tower of Babel. As I recall (and my recall isn't very good I'm afraid) there was one language and when the tower of Babel fell, no one could communicate with one another because everyone's language had changed. If the language that we spoke back then was changed, then Hebrew as we know it came about after the fall of the Tower of Babel surely? If this is the case, what was the language spoken before the Tower fell?
lol @myself...missed a whole section of this hub about the tower of Babel >.< am reading it now !
This whole hub is very interesting :)
I just have been reading the bible genesis 11 vs 1-9 and read a lil further back too...The language spoken at the time of Babel was the language spoken by Noah and his offspring... this is obviously because all of mankind was wiped out by the floods that covered the earth in Noah's time, thus the only language left to survive was that of Noah's native tongue. According to Genesis, the language spoken by man was one unifiying language and of one speach, and from what I read, God didn't like the idea that much because it meant that we as humans could accomplish anything we set our minds to, so in His wisdom God decided to confound the language of man, because we weren't obviously ready to accomplish these amazing things God foresaw us doing. vs 7-9 state "Lets us go down, and there confound their language that they may not understand one another's speech. So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore the name of it called Babel; becuase the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and dfrom thence did the Lord scatter them all abroad on the face of the earth"
So, from that I'm guessing that the tongue of all the earth was that of Noah, which, if I am not mistaken is Older than Hebrew
. God doesn't do things by half...if He confounded the language of all the earth, then the language spoken before the time of Babel would have been lost. All languages that formed after Babel are Old. They would be the languages of the people scattered across the face of the earth. Hebrew being ONE of those languages to come from Babel and one of the oldest, but I don't think Hebrew is THE oldest language.
You have to think about modern language and regional diferences in accent and dialect. In England we all speak one language, but in different parts of the country we have different words for different things, this is a regional thing, and the same would have applied to ancient times too, before Noah. After the flood the only language available to the earth was that spoken by Noah and his family, hense the reason we all spoke one common tongue and speech. No where have I read that Noah spoke Hebrew.
Thanks for the comments, Liz. The reason I believe that God did not get rid of or annihilate the first language at the tower of Babel is that it doesn't make sense for God to simply get rid of a language he created. I believe that a select few still spoke it after the confusion of the languages, because no where does it say that it WAS destroyed. Until I find evidence that it was destroyed, I'm going to believe that it wasn't. Of course, I have no more proof for this theory than you have for yours. You just haven't read anything that contradicts your theory. So until either of us read something that evidences our own opinion, there's really no reason for us to argue about it. In fact I'm glad your opinion differs from mine. The search for truth would mean nothing, after all, if everyone knew the truth. For now, we only have theories, and this is my theory.
WOW! Cybermouse ur so cool. Speechless
dipz--Thanks for the comment! Cheers :)
Hey there all humans,
One wise person in between was babbling a lot about socrates and other scholars of ancient period. Well my dear, the great Indian vedic period dates far behind even the great great grand dad's grand dad of Mr.Socrates. Arya bhata who himself was a scholar might have been a good looking mummy that Mr.Socrates can see if he was preserved after his death. Huh, and about dev nagri and Brahmi, the oldest scripts ever, is a proven fact. You guys check in google please if you cannot find a wise man to ask next your door.
My friend who wrote about dwaraka was absolutely right and i am enclosing certain facts of Dwaraka.
Oldest Civilization
Sunken City Off India Coast7500 B.C.? 10 000 B.C.? 50 000 B.C.?
How to fix the date of the MahabharataA practical suggestion
The following text is taken from the Mahabharata.The text in Section VI predicts the sinking of the City of Dwaravati. Section VII describes how the city of Dwarka was swallowed up by the ocean. Geological expertise can help determine the period when the city of Dwarka was lost beneath the ocean waves.
Tsunami? (Earliest recorded event of Tsunami)
From The MahabharataMausala Parva, Section VITranslated by Sri Kisari Mohan Ganguli
Vasudeva said:This city of Dwaravati, after Arjuna’sdeparture, will, with its walls and edifices, be swallowedup by the ocean without any delay.
Sunken City Off India Coast-7500 B. C.?© 2002 by Linda Moulton Howe
February 16, 2002
Surat, India - A month ago in mid-January, marine scientists in India announced they had sonar images of square and rectangular shapes about 130 feet down off the northwestern coast of India in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay). Not only are their sonar shapes with 90-degree angles, the Indian Minister of Science and Technology ordered that the site be dredged. What was found has surprised archaeologists around the world and was the subject of a private meeting two weeks ago attended by the Indian Minister in charge of investigating the underwater site about thirty miles off the coast from Surat.
An American who traveled to that private meeting was Michael Cremo, researcher in the history of archaeology for the Bhakti Vedanta Institute in India and author of the book Forbidden Archaeology. I talked with him today in India about the dredging operation, what the ocean engineers found and the implications of first carbon dating of artifacts at more than 9,000 years.
Michael Cremo, Researcher of Ancient Archaeologyand Author, Forbidden Archaeology
"Within the past few months, the engineers began some dredging operations there and they pulled up human fossil bones, fossil wood, stone tools, pieces of pottery and many other things that indicated that it indeed was a human habitation site that they had. And they were able to do more intensive sonar work there and were able to identify more structures. They appeared to have been laid out on the bank of a river that had been flowing from the Indian subcontinent out into that area.
According to the news releases, they have done a radiocarbon testing on a piece of wood from the underwater site that is now yielding an age of 9,500 years which would place it near the end of the last Ice Age.
Yes, those are the indications that are coming. There were actually two radiocarbon dates: one about 7500 years old and another about 9500 years old. The 9500 year old one seems to be the strongest one. That's the one they are going with. This was announced by Minister Joshi (Murli Manohar Joshi is Indian Minister for Ocean Technology) at this meeting I attended in Hyderabad, India. He said there is going to be more work going on. It's difficult because it's very difficult to see down there. There is a very swift current. So, it's going to have to be a pretty massive effort, but he said the government of India is willing to put the resources behind it to do whatever it takes to further confirm these discoveries.
I also spoke in Hyderabad with an independent archaeologist not connected with the Indian government, but who has a deep interest in these discoveries and he says they are still going to have to send divers down there. Up to this point, they have not sent divers down. The information they have is based on the sonar readings and the dredging they have done. Eventually, they are going to have to find a way to get people down there to take a closer look at this. I think this effort is going to go on.
Now, another American archaeologist, Richard Meadows of Harvard University, is proposing there should be an international effort here. On the surface that sounds like a good idea, but it also may be an effort of American archaeologists and others to control the project. I don't think they want to see a civilization being as old as it appears to be according to these new finds at 9500 years ago. So, I would hope the Indian archaeologists and government would be very cautious about letting outsiders in there who might have a different agenda and who might try to control what gets let out about this very important discovery. It could be quite revolutionary.
Cultural Background of People At Underwater Site?
Even if we don't know what the cultural background of the people is, if it does happen to be a city that is 9500 years old, that is older than the Sumerian civilization by several thousand years. It is older than the Egyptian, older than the Chinese. So it would radically affect our whole picture of the development of urban civilization on this planet.
Now, if it further happens that additional research is able to identify the culture of the people who lived in that city that's now underwater, if it turns out they are a Vedic people - which I think is quite probable given the location of this off the coast of India - I think that would radically change the whole picture of Indian history which has basically been written by western archaeologists.
Please feel free to write to me...vimalmohanpillai@gmail.com
I write a lot on the Hebrew language. I think you are correct. I have a few hubs on the origin of the alphabet and the symbolism of the Hebrew language. I would invite you to check them out sometime.
Those are good Hubs you've written, Peter.
I want to see the entire Old Testament in original language with literal translation of the picture symbols and the factual historical/cultural commentary next to it for better understanding - like a side-by-side translation Bible, only with the full truth.
Great discussions here.
Well my thoughts might be weird but I'll put them forth anyway,evolution theory says our first language was,oooh and aaah,and creation theory doesn't know cause we are confused because of the splitting of languages.So I know this doesn't help the debate much but might put some laughter into it.
Peter--Thanks! You're the first person to explicitly agree with me that Hebrew was the first language. I will definitely take a good look at your hubs.
Patty-I know there are editions of the Hebrew Pentateuch that are as you described. I can't recommend any good web sites to buy any from, but I know they do exist. One of my college professors has one. I'll ask him sometime where he got it :)
Cybermouse,
I would also be interested in knowing about the Hebrew Pentateuch that you are referring to, will you post your findings? I must question, are you thinking that Hebrew was the pure Adamic language? Have you read any works of the scholar, Hugh Nibley? This Hub has generated a great discussion. Thanks.
In a book Fossilised Customs,they said today's Hebrew is old day Babylonian Hebrew is there any proof to this,for I also think Hebrew is the oldest language though like others I can not prove it.
In The Doghouse--I will indeed post my findings on here, if I can discover where my professor got his copy. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he has more than one. He teaches one of my classes which is called BTE for short, which stands for Biblical Theology and Ethics, an upper level course on Christian Apologetics and the foundational ideas and various logical proofs behind Christianity, as well as proofs against all other worldviews.
Graceful Guardian--Thanks for your comments. To answer your question, the old testament was originally written in Hebrew. This is the same Hebrew used by the Babylonians as you have said, therefore the Pentateuch itself (the first five books of the O.T.) is proof that this is the same Hebrew as that of today. It is not the exact same language as it was then, but this is insignificant when you consider that other languages have changed too, especially ones that have not been around as long as Hebrew has.
Wow, very interesting...I just spent well over an hour reading all of these comments. Where to start? First I would say that Cybermouse, you did enlighten me with the periodic table. But like with all things in life, we as humans can find an explanation for anything, hence the many religions in the world. I do not agree that hebrew was the first language, although it is quite ancient, and it's not spoken the same way as it used to be, and also the idioms are totally different now. I can't recall the person who wrote about the tower of babel but that brings a good point. The languages were split (assuming we believe this to be historical) so what does this mean? The languages all evolved. Can we prove this? Of course we can. Let's take our language as an example. I'm sure you have heard of the classic "Beowulf". A movie was made of this classic book recently, for those of you who live in a cave. Anyways, this book was written in english. But can anyone reading this post actually read it without a translation? Furthermore, if you can read it, are you able to read it without a commentary? I doubt that, unless you study that old english it was written in. It's so old that it is literally another language. Not just english, but spanish is this way too. I'm sure we are all acquainted with the KVJ. That isn't as old, but giving that to a young child to read would be futile. This is the same with hebrew. Can anyone read the ancient Tanakh in hebrew without a translation and without a commentary? No one can read this and learn this on their own, even an israelite born speaking hebrew and/or aramaic cannot do this. It's a totally different language. In the western world, christianity even teaches hebrew slightly different than in the east, or the jews in the western world.
Hebrew was the language of the canaanites. Abraham was son of Terah, who was part of a Canaanite tribe. Abraham left his tribe to follow G-d. Later on, the descendants of Abraham were called "hibiri". Like today, people call jews insulting names. All of the canaanites were called hebrews, but to the descendants of Abraham, they were not worthy to be called hebrew, so they would call them hibiri. Some might argue that aramaic was the official language of the canaanites, I have read theories of this, and how hebrew evolved from aramaic, it is possible.
Another thing, the issue about the flood. To me this is the most interesting thing. I know a lot of you religious folks will disagree with me. In the torah it says the G-d flooded the "whole earth" and everyone was killed except for noah and his family. A simple examination of the hebrew we read that G-d flooded the whole "ha-eretz". eretz can be translated as earth, land. That would be a literal translation, but at the time, the ancients did not know how big the earth was. Whenever you read this in all of the tanakh, it is a reference to the known world. Like When Xeroxes conquered the whole world in Esther/Ezra/Nehemiah, he did not conquer the whole world, just the known world to them, I mean what about the Americas, and what about the nomad arabs that went to the east? The chinese? I don't think that was the case lol.
Patty I think it was who asked about a literal translation of the tanakh with the pictorial hebrew. To my knowledge, no-one has actually done this, but there is a website that actually has this. I have it saved somewhere, I will find it for you if you are interested. But if you would want it with the masoretic hebrew script, you can find this on amazon, although its not the best, because its just some quick printing to make a few bucks, its better to just learn hebrew and get the critical text of the masoretic text and of course the biblical texts of the dead sea scrolls. But I would highly recommend the BHS its one of the best ones, although not all of the dead sea scrolls variant readings are including, but they are updating it, and the new one should be coming out in 2 or 5 years, I forget, its called la quinta. It does get complicated, but this new one, will incoporate the lexingard text as well as the full masoretic text.
Another thing Cybermouse. Torah means teaching/instruction in hebrew. In the new testament yeshua(jesus) speaks of the law of moses, a horrible translation I would say, but that word in greek is nomos which is the word they used in the LXX to translate torah, so in other words...the Torah, is the first five books of the Christian bible. The tanakh is an acroynm for torah navi'im and ketuvim, which is the teaching, the prophets, and the writtings. The old testament for the christians.
Well one last note. I think that one guy, the best, is the reason for much of our horrible past as a society. That kind of mentallity is what drove the vatican into these horrible wars, like the crusades, and burning people at the stake for not allowing people freedom of choice, nazi germany is another one. It's all ignorance really, I am not a christian, I used to be a while ago. But I am quite knowledgeable in the scriptures, and do intend to further my studies in religion to hopefully enlighten people like you one day. What does Paul say in your scriptures? hmmm recall Ephesians 2:8-9? "Be kind to each another tender-heartedly, forgiving each other, even as Christ, for G-d's sake, has forgiven you" I may not be a Christian anymore, but this verse still holds truths in my life, minus the G-d and Christ part. I am not here to force you to believe what I believe, I am just here to discuss and debate if need be, but nothing that would lead to a hateful relationship. I do respect everyone's beliefs.
I don't want to be considered an aetheist,but recent findings while reading the bible have made me start to question the accuracy and the writers on the whole teachings but this is not what I wanted to add.While SANSKRIT might be the oldest documented written language I still don't believe it to be the first,history has proven that CHRISTOPHER COLOMBUS to be a damn liar when he said they discovered countries when in fact there were people living there before.Now conserning the birth of the socalled SANSKRIT:early 17th century,the Harappan society declines after 2000bc,1500bc immigrants moved from the mountains northwest as the Aryans spoke an indo-european language that became the source for the SANSKRIT,with iron tools and weapons conquered the earlier inhabitants the DASAS and spread into the eastern Punjab and along the Ganges River valley,which reveiled the priestly class,the BRAHMANS in the literature of the VEDIC SOCIETY,it wasn't until 200bc that Valmiki began to compose the Ramayan.HOMO SAPIANS appeared in Africa 130000 years ago under the PLIOCENE EPOCH,AUSTALOPITHECUS has proven that the first sign of human life originated out of Africa,whereas India broke off from Africa 200000-150000 years ago.Mesepotamia which is now called Iraq were the first to domesticate sheep and dogs for hunting purpose long before the Asians created the first sea going boat 62000 years ago,therefore all know the original language of Iraq is ARABIC and Iraq was part of Africa,Eden is in Africa,the first Neanthertal drawings were found in Iraq and African People true religion was supposed to Muslim and not Christianity and civilization started in Africa it is therefore safe to say that ARABIC was the first language written until proven otherwise.The BIBLE was translated in HEBREW first and then ENGLISH after the DEAD SEA SCROLLS were written in ARABIC.Now conserning the questioning of the Bible it has mostly to with circumstances concerning the death of JUDAS,Matt27:4-8,Acts1:16-20, and to add the OLD TESTIMENT was written in Hebrew and the NEW TESTIMENT in Greek more on these findings visit www.answering.christianity.com ,so I hope this shared some light on the subject ,sorry Hindus you were told wrong imformation from birth
Trini to the bone,
Wow. Interesting stuff there. The dead sea scrolls are all in hebrew/aramaic/greek none are in arabic to date, none that have been released to the public at least, and it would not be possible seeing that the arab nomads had nothing to do with those writtings. The qu'ran was written a few centuries after jesus in classic arabic, and it basically has the arab version of what happened in the ancient days. It's actually interesting, if you ever read the qu'ran, there is one race of people described in the torah that we know nothing of, but in the Qu'ran it has the story, because those people were arab.
Anyways. Islam is the religion, and muslim is a believer of islam. It get confusing, you can argue that islam has been around for years, because thats what muslims say, islam means devotion to G-d/Allah. So with that definition it has been around for ages. I don't know if I can agree with you about arabic. But its hard to say. I can argue with the script its a bit more advance than hebrew aramaic and phoenician, due to the fact that arabic is a cursive language. But that means nothing, because thats script not the language, hebrew and arabic are cousin languages, that is true. You can see it with words as salam/shalom ente/attah abba/babba etc...If you ask an arab they probably would tell you the same thing, but ask a jew the same. I really don't think this is the case, if you read my earlier post you can see why. But, I most certainly won't rule it out. I could be totally wrong, and you could be right.
I don't know too much about arabs, but one final note...if we go with your theory, it is known (not 100% fact though) that when ishmael and hagar left abram they went to the east, and all the decendants(of which they say are arab) became nomads, and so there is no history of the arabs just traditions passed down and later recorded in the qu'ran. So if this is true, then your theory is flawed, because if hagar and abram spoke arabic, they would have kept that language. If you read the hebrew pictorials, you can understand the tanakh better, for example the word hallel means to praise, in the hebrew pictorial it is spelled HLL the "H" is a man with his hands up in the air (similar to our h...makes u think) and the to "L"'s are shepards staffs, so hallel means to praise because the pictures say it...a shepard putting his hands in the air. the oldest arabic script we have is from 1ce i believe it is. So if we go with this, the arabs did not write their language down till much later, and so how would the jews write their bible without this script?
pQsk
;seems to me that you have a little bit of knowledge of the bible but you are forgeting that before MOSES wrote the Laws of the Torah(Hebrew)means instruction,in the Hebrew Bible the first book was called BERESHITH meaning in the beginning,a name taken from the opening words of the book.the english bible follows the Greek bible made in Alexandria in the third century and calls it Genesis meaning "source".Abram came long after Enoch(gen4:17-18)Seth(gen4:25,gen5:1-32).The red sea was formed in about 20,000000 years ago with the seperation of Arabia from Africa.Seth,Enoch,Mahalaleel are all names of arabic decent,Abram came after the fall of the Babel tower and the confusing of tongues.Now about the writing of the Quran it is from the early 17th century but it still doesn't prove that the Arabic language is not the first language ever written,so to say the Bible was 3rd century,Sanskrit 17th century,Quran 17th century,Moses 1300bc,Aramaic 300bc,Greek1500bc,So as to say what was the beginning shall be the end.One last thing drawings is a form of writing too and the very first writings or drawings were recorded from the Neantherthals in Iraqian caves
Yes I knew that all that. But names in the tanakh, whichever text it is, does not prove anything, but thats another subject entirely. I am not saying hebrew was the first language, I do not believe this at all, neither do I believe arabic to be, it would not make sense, in my opinion that is. But you do make valid points about the written arabic. If the romans would have successfully destroyed all of the 2nd temple, I'm sure we would have lost all of the hebrew, and we would have a similar debate about the hebrew written form. :-)
pQsk .............let's forget about the neanthertals etc, it's true the romans did destroy the 2nd temple but the first temple was built in 2500bc in the Babylonian city Nippur where it was filled with clay tablets which also was the first library in the Mesopotamian territory.In 3500bc the egyptians developed the first known system of writing which consisted of hieroglyphic symbols that represented objects,sounds and ideas(egyptian language arabic "semitic language").3010bc Cuneiform (wedge shape)writing is invented by the Sumerians in Uruk(ancient city of southern Mesopotamia,Iraq) consisting of about 1400 symbols which was used to record goods and transactions on clay tablets...........As for Kalki,Naga,Akshat Pandey, Sudesh Anand and Vimalan Munusamy on their little comment of the subject,at the beginning of the Indus Valley cilvilizatin, writing first appeared in south asia at Harappa which was't until 1500bc and that's when Hinduism was created,450bc Nyaya philosophy develops,400bc Panini writes sanskrit grammar, 200bc--200ad the Bhagavad-gita was writen.So it is safe to say that everything started in Africa and will return to Africa.To put in another way Semitic languages:-arabic, being the intermediate transportation from other languages to english ,hebrew, aramaic, maltese, amharic, Sanskrit is not a Semitic language. Try using the encarta 2008 dictionary to look up these words....................................................................
pQsK - I haven't had time to read any of your comments except the first one, but I completely disagree that one cannot learn the ancient Hebrew language. It is no different than learning Spanish. The claim that we cannot know what the original authors wrote is completely unfounded and illogical. If you need proof of this, take any basic class in Biblical Theology and Ethics, or a class in basic logic for that matter. I am in such a class right now in my current semester in college, and we thoroughly covered the subject of ancient languages being reliable if one puts forth enough effort to learn them. If you need live proof, I would be more than happy to introduce you to my Bible professor, Dr. Rapinchuk, the one who owns a copy of the Tanakh. It's important to realize that one's knowledge about such things (such as ancient languages) might be incorrect. For instance, you wouldn't debate the theory of relativity with Einstein--no one did. This is because the man knew what he was talking about. If a chemist were to show me a picture of a glucose molecule, I wouldn't debate with him or her whether or not it is really a picture of a glucose molecule, because the chemist obviously knows much more than I do about it. Similarly, it would be foolish to debate the reliability of an ancient language with a Bible professor who knows and fluently speaks in ancient languages. I admit that I stated the names of things (Torah, Pentateuch) incorrectly, as it's been four semesters since I took Biblical Survey and learned what they were all called. I couldn't remember the word "Tanakh" but that is what I meant when I said "Torah" and "Pentateuch." I realize they are not the same thing, and again, I meant to say "Tanakh" as you rightly corrected me to do.
cybermouse.........................I would agree with you that anyone can learn any language but you cannot base your facts on something is being thought in a class room without questioning the evidence,therefore if someone is to tell you that the bull full is to believe.11000bc Mesopotamian civilization domesticated sheep and other small animals.4200bc was the dawn of Sumerian civilization(sounthern part of Mesopotamia)and in 3600bc that the biblical city of Uruk(Erech..hebrew translation in the Tanakh)was founded.TANAKH "sacred book of Judaism".Judaism developed following the exile of the Judeans to Babylonia in 586bc,It originates as a confederation of hebrew tribes sharing one common belief in one god Yahweh.400-500bc the Talmud,a body of the Jewish law an commentary on the Torah is first complied and consisted of the Mishnah(codification of laws)and the Gemara(commentary on the Mishnah).2 compilations existed:1st Palestine, 2nd Babylonian,the palestinian talmud was written in west Aramaic and the babylonian was written in east Aramaic,of the 2nd the babylonian was more intensive and elaborate.The terms Judaism and religion do not exist in premodern Hebrew.Christianity originated as one among several competing Jewish ideologies in the 1st century Palestine gods and Islam,these religions had an impact on the subsequent history on Judaism.................................. civilization started in Africa but it is hard for the world to say that because whites did not originate from there,even Aramaic was before Hebrew .The bible was written in many other languages before translated in hebrew.
Trini to the bone: I am just curious where you came up with the arabic language being the ancient egyptians mother tongue? What class did you take where you learned this? what book did you read? what professor teaches this, or what scholars say this because I have never heard of this ever. Last I heard (and the majority of what I have read to present) was that coptic was the closest thing we know to what the ancient egyptians spoke, but the coptic we know now is just the "last phase" of that dead language. I don't disagree with you on civilizations coming from africa, one would be dumb to make this assumption, but about arabic being the original language and being spoken the same as today is absurd. I would really love to know where you got this info, and I hope its not something like wikipedia. And also how the tanakh was written in several languages before being translated into hebrew, I really have not heard of this, not even from secular scholars. Where are these sources really? Not even Dr. Feather with his crazy theories has gone that route, although I do agree with most of his research.
Cybermouse, I apologize, I must have not come across correctly, yes I know anyone can learn the tanakh, my question is, can some-one learn this with out a commentary? If you learn modern hebrew/aramaic, would someone be able to read the tanakh perfectly without that commentary to give you the background on the culture and the way of thinking? The language has changed so much over the years that it's not even the same, hebrew is only around because ancient jews decided they wanted to revive the dead language. And it is true what trini says. Christianity, in my opinion, stems more from the Essens, which if you read their writtings and compare it to the gospels and all of paul's letters, they make much more sense. You should check them out sometime you would be quite amazed especially the gospel of john, that has "essen" written all over it. There is even the prophesy in matthew that scholars have debated over years, I forget the chapter and verse, but it speaks of a prophesy of a nazarene which is not in the tanakh, but there is a similar prophesy with the essen scriptures, which points to the Jesus movement more to the essen's, although he was against them. In any case that is my opinion, there is still a lot more research to be done on the subject. But read some of Dr. Feather's stuff, it opens eyes, but some of his theories are off the wall.
working
Akshat Pandey says:
8 months ago
Der friend ,
according to me and the historical proofs , we all can say that SANSKRIT is the oldest language and the mother language for all the languages which we are speaking now a days.
the scripts were written in sanskrit thousands of years before the birth of writer of BIBLE.
if u have any comment feel free to communicate at
akspandey@gmail.com