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Thread Hijacking - A "How-To" Guide

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By Madame X

There are a number of techniques to disrupt a thread on any community board.

Why disrupt a thread deliberately, you may ask?

A few reasons are:

1) a political faction does not want a certain subject to be entertained (that Obama may not be an American citizen and is therefore not qualified to hold office)

2) a special interest group advantage will be lost if a certain subject becomes popular knowledge (gun ownership facts, for example)

3) a government shill is promoting a specific party line (communism - under the guise of "freedom and equality" [finally] for all)


Technique One

Two or more individuals, from seemingly diverse political stances from different areas of the country engage in constant bickering. They only do this after someone in the thread has made a significant comment. It immediately diverts attention from the valid and pertinent point into their, often humorous, arguing. They may do this on a number of other unrelated threads just to maintain the illusion that they have a long-standing feud. The effect is that most posters then give up on that thread and move on. Goal accomplished . . . oh yeah, and what was that point?


Technique Two

Someone's posts are so far to one side or the other that maintaining a conversation on the original topic is drowned out by the froth created by this extremity. That poster is often times rude, insulting and so outrageous that no one can get past the froth. Goal accomplished . . . what were we discussing again?


Technique Three

A group of people gang up on anyone with a dissenting view, usually with withering contempt, until the dissenter gives up. The thread then becomes a mutual masturbation society where they can all agree with each other that they are right.

You may have noticed that people who are confident in their stance do not need a "group" to feel confident. A good example of this is what the mainstream media is doing to Sarah Palin. How you feel about Palin is not the point here, just to be clear. But the mob-slander tactics being used against her and why.

By now you may be thinking - paranoid, conspiracy theorist, nut case.

However, a man by the name of Saul Alinsky not only developed these tactics, but instructed others in how to use them. One of his main protogees was Hillary Clinton. In fact, he asked her to take over for him as head of his program of "Community Organizing". Another of his best pupils at community organizing is Barack Hussein Obama.

Alinsky asserted that he was more concerned with the acquisition of power than anything else: "My aim here is to suggest how to organize for power: how to get it and how to use it." This is not to be done with assistance to the poor, nor even by organizing the poor to demand assistance: "Even if all the low-income parts of our population were organized ... it would not be powerful enough to get significant, basic, needed changes."


Alinsky's rules include:

RULE 1: "Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear and retreat." (two people bickering off-topic)

RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.

RULE 3: "Make the enemy live up to his/her own book of rules. You can kill them with this. They can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

RULE 4: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage." (withering contempt, personal attacks)

RULE 5: "The threat is generally more terrifying than the thing itself." (If we don't pass the global warming bill WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!)

RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” Empowered to be an asshole is fun!

RULE 7: "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works. (Think Trent Lott and the success of name-calling used by the likes of Bill Clinton, Paul Begala, James Carville, Maxine Waters and others against conservatives and Republicans. Think of how Clinton "enemies" like Paula Jones or Linda Tripp were treated and now, Sarah Palin)

RULE 8: "One of the criteria for picking the target is the target's vulnerability ... the other important point in the choosing of a target is that it must be a personification, not something general and abstract." (A former Klansman, Sen. Robert Byrd, got away with saying "nigger" on Fox News at least three times, and he still maintains his Senate seat and power.)

RULE 9: "The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength." For examle, Democrats imply conservatives are racists or that Republicans want to kill senior citizens by limiting the growth of the Medicare system (of course, not a peep about Obama's comment that universal health care will deny aid to anyone over 65). These red-herring tactics work.

RULE 10: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.”


A few of his other "ideas" -

• "In war, the ends justify almost any means."


• "In action, one does not always enjoy the luxury of a decision that is consistent with one's individual conscience and the good of mankind."


• "Morality is merely a rhetorical rationale for expedient action and self-interest."

The tenets of community organizing are right here at home folks. Anybody can do it. All you have to want is power - by any means you can get it.


Saul Alinsky
Saul Alinsky
Alinsky's book
Alinsky's book
Hillary Clinton - she wrote her thesis about Alinsky's methods
Hillary Clinton - she wrote her thesis about Alinsky's methods
Obama teaching ACORN members
Obama teaching ACORN members

Hillary Clinton notes that he was said to "rub raw the sentiments of the people." "Alinsky answers such criticism by reminding his critics that the difference between a 'liberal' and a 'radical' is that the liberal refuses to fight for the goals he professes," Clinton wrote in her thesis.


"Let them call me rebel and welcome, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul . . . " -Thomas Paine

"Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgement to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins—or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom—Lucifer." -Saul Alinsky

Comments

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Ande Moore profile image

Ande Moore  says:
5 months ago

Excellent hub. I'm going to pass this off to my constitutional and conservative groups. I've posted a couple on facebook so I'll probably get this one too. Well done.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
5 months ago

Thanks Ande - I'm a rube about facebook. Do you post the whole article or just a link? Thanks for the wonderful compliment of wanting to post it elsewhere. I was hoping it would have at least a little bit of an impact. Thanks for stopping by.

Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri  says:
5 months ago

 

You did not mention about Antonio Gramsci. He was second teacher. Thanks for good work.

 

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
5 months ago

Vladimir - yeah, Gramsci was the inheritor, for the collectivists, of Machiavelli's work. Alinsky refined it further, drawing on Gramsci, for American leftists - so that's where my focus was. Especially since our current president is so enamored by Alinsky's ideas. Thanks for your comments.

eovery profile image

eovery  says:
5 months ago

Nice hub.

Keep on hubbing!

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
5 months ago

thanks eovery!! Stop by anytime.

Bob's Musings  says:
5 months ago

Great hub.. Thanks for opening my eyes to the danger before us. I've heard Glen Beck talk about Alinsky, but you have put it all in perspective.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
5 months ago

Thanks Bob. The scary thing is that you can see it everywhere. And it's very easy to get caught up in it - when someone is acting it out on a thread. I always try to pull back and look at things calmly, but I'm not always so good at it. Thanks for stopping by.

The Shark profile image

The Shark  says:
5 months ago

HI X, another great post. Palin and Lott are great examples. Clinton coined it as the politics of personal destruction, and he and Hilary are masters of it.

The liberals have perfected the deflection technique. Don't forget they even tried to deflect the birth controversy of Obama by putting out the story that McCain wasn't a citizen being born in Panama. Correct, on a US Naval base while his father was Commander of the Pacific fleet. Did anyone happen to notice the name of the ship we sent to track that Korean ship---- The USS McCain.

The Shark----Keep their feet to the fire X, we have not yet begun to fight!

James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins  says:
5 months ago

AH! You have nailed the prime mover! Thank you for providing these quotes and explicating their meanings. You have done the nation a service. Good work!

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
5 months ago

Shark - yeah, they are masters of spin. I didn't know that about the McCain - I guess they couldn't quite get around that one.

James - Thanks for your support. It's important to know from where these people get their influences. They try and downplay Obama's associations with Ayers, Wright, etc. but it's not working as well as they would like. Thanks for stopping by.

lrohner profile image

lrohner  says:
5 months ago

Great hub, enjoyable read and (yeah, I'll say it) a very timely topic!

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
5 months ago

Ironher - thanks. We should all be up on this - especially when visiting the forums!

Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom  says:
5 months ago

Hi Madame X, I came by to read this thinking it was specifically about hubbing. But it's so much more. FASCINATING stuff. It goes without saying that both "sides" (pick your forum) have their pet tactics. These are all quite common on BOTH sides, it seems to me. But then, I have little or no taste for war of any kind. And that's what politics and power mongering is. War.

Back to HP for a minute. There was a time, not too long ago, either, when hubs would be jacked with the express intent of mass entertainment. True, the original hub topic might get lost, but the comments would take on a life of their own, as examples of wit and comraderie. Not all hubjackings have "ulterior political motives."

On the other hand, I can clearly identify examples of EACH of the tactics you describe in this hub.

What were we talking about again? Oh, right! Good hub and I do admire your intellect, woman! MM

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
5 months ago

MM - thanks for your take on things - I don't really look at it as left or right, though I use those terms liberally (no pun - really!) I look at who uses these tactics and why. Using the tactics at all, by definition, IS the red flag. Any normal person with normal intentions has no need to do so. And frankly, I have no taste for war (even one of words) either, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone manipulate me for their own ends - benign or not.

As for hubs, yeah, I've seen threads meander and I have no problem with that. That's part of the fun of it. I'm glad you can see the tactics in play. I feel that's very important. I just can't stand to see people get lead down the garden path, and then defend their delusion to the death. The term Stalin used for them was "useful idiot".

And thanks for the wonderful compliment - but plenty of folks have no problem putting me in my place :)

Oh yeah - fun new avatar yourself!

Ghost32 profile image

Ghost32  says:
4 months ago

Well stated.

Oh, about Facebook: Underneath where it asks "What are you doing?" you'll see a row of little icons. The one that shows a pushpin will say "link" when you hover over it. Click on that.

Then paste in your URL. "ATTACH" will show in a button to the right. Click on that.

Facebook will automatically then show the link and a brief description, BUT you're not quite done yet. A graphic will show to the left, usually one from your Hub. Inside the box to the right of the graphic, you'll see "Select Thumbnail", and a counter that slowly starts from 1 and goes up.

The instant you see a thumbnail you can live with--they don't get better and pretty soon aren't yours at all--click on "SHARE" at the lower right. And..you're done!

Okay, back on topic re your Hub: Like everyone else, I see these tactics at work on a regular basis. When I do, if I'm moved to put in my two cents worth, I usually come up with a Post that I suspect may think outside THEIR box.

True, it's surprising how many of those Comments of mine which SHOULD stir up a firestorm...seem to be simply ignored. Which does make sense in its own way. 'Tis a species of critter they've not seen before and they have no idea what to do with it.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
4 months ago

Ghost - thanks for the facebook lesson. I've noticed your posts (which are all right on, by the way:) and you're right - they're not quite sure what to do with you. Which means you're doing something right. Thanks for posting.

barryrutherford profile image

barryrutherford  says:
4 months ago

this is great i wish i knew it 2 years ago ! thanks !

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
4 months ago

barry - You can see this stuff acted out all the time right here on the forums, though I won't mention any names. . . thanks for the kind words.

ralwus profile image

ralwus  says:
3 months ago

Oh yes, I know these tactics well. And MM is correct on hubjacking, it was a lot of fun.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
3 months ago

ralwus - yes, I see that you do indeed know these tactics well. Whatever rings your bell . . .

Thanks for stopping by.

Wealthmadehealthy profile image

Wealthmadehealthy  says:
3 months ago

I hope everyone in here is aware that O is now tracking people and taking screen shots of what they say in Facebook, Twitter, and MySpace for a few...He is looking for detrimental content against what he is doing....I wrote a hub concerning this, but everyone should know...I did delete all the above accounts as he is collecting email addresses of those who oppose him or do not agree with what he says...I for one do not approve of this idea, so just got the heck out of dodge while it had been announced only one day....I am sorry, the nerve....

This has been a very informative hub....Thank you for writing it...

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
3 months ago

Oh yeah . . . Obama is a communist POS narcissist egomaniac racist puppet figurehead whose only goal in life is to destroy freedom for everyone but the elite who can't tie his shoes without a teleprompter who hates America.

There - let them record that!

Thanks for posting.

Lady_E profile image

Lady_E  says:
3 months ago

Well, Well Madame X - this is interesting. I wonder, if you use any of these techniques in Forums or if you think any Hubbers in Forums use them...Just my curious mind.

Lovely Hub.

Ps. After writing this comment, I read the post above it. I'm guessing you really didn't mean this?

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
3 months ago

Lady_E - This hub was inspired by the forums here on HP and the techniques I've described are rampant all over the internet. I read a lot of sites, but rarely post. The only place I post or have an account is here, and that is because there is such a wonderful group here. Most are intelligent, kind and humorous and I especially like the sarcastic ones. I've always enjoyed well-honed sarcasm. I know that bothers a lot of people, hence, they may see that form of communication as part of what I've described above, which I do not, for the most part (although it can be).

But the acknowledgment of shills is necessary and to think that they don't exist is to miss a lot of what is going on in the undercurrent of a discussion. Sometimes posting directly to that undercurrent is very unpopular, as I myself have discovered. But tough, that's the fun part.

As for my statement above? I mean every God-blessed word of it.

Thanks for posting.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
3 months ago

Oh, and as to your question about whether I use these techniques myself - the answer is no. I have no need to. Yeah, I'd like to convince people to my way of thinking but I don't really care either way. That's the difference I see between a shill and just a regular person with opinions - for what it's worth.

Lady_E profile image

Lady_E  says:
3 months ago

Interesting. I now understand why your attitude towards other people was challenged in Forums and the person disappointed with you, was actually your Fan.

Happy Hubbing!

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
3 months ago

You mean Mighty Mom. Oh well, win some lose some.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
3 months ago

Or Sweetie Pie - too bad. Changing what I think or why doesn't happen without compelling argument and facts.

Michael Willis profile image

Michael Willis  says:
2 months ago

Interesting hub and I enjoyed reading it. I can see where at times where this technique you write about may be necessary at times when a discussion gets out of hand, well...turns away from discussion. lol

I enjoy discussions and am happy to leave a discussion with agreeing to disagree with someone or them with me if that is the way it ends. Just wish more people would discuss, instead of hi-jacking a forum or any type of discussion to cause mudslinging and the such.

I will say that I did enjoy the forum discussion we had and I do respect you for you part in it.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
2 months ago

Hi Michael - Thanks for stopping by. I was always more interested in the tactics people use to achieve their ends than the actual facts of an issue. It is possible to find the facts and there are some here who are way better at dissecting an issue than I am - jiberish comes to mind, she's great at that. The conclusion I have come to after observing these tactics in action is that when someone is using them, that in itself is the red flag that signals that they're disingenuous. Some one who is sincere in learning the truth doesn't need them :)

lostgirlscat profile image

lostgirlscat  says:
2 months ago

Alinsky seems to have written the rule book for contemporary politicians. How sad that they feel they must resort to such Machiavellian tactics to win people to their side. It indicates either a contempt for their own goals (which they keep hidden with these tactics)or more likely, a contempt for their constituents, who they feel are too stupid to see the truth staring them in the face, and must be won over with "bread,wine, and circuses." Great Hub!

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
2 months ago

lostgirlscat - You are so right! So many would rather have bread and circuses - it takes their minds off the fact that they actually have to learn, discern and contribute. Freedom isn't free, as they say. But it's getting too close for comfort these days. Most people see their freedoms slipping away and have actually decided to stand up and do something about it. You can always count on Americans for that - a la DeToqueville! Thanks for your sharp insight :)

aguasilver profile image

aguasilver  says:
4 weeks ago

Hi Madame X,

Great hub, pity Evo, Cags, Marine and tantrum seem to have read it first!

I had one of your first Macs, built a dtp business on it in 1987, remember when we got the 'big boy' Mac 2mb of ram and 20mb of memory. Wow we were stunned at it's capabilities, and Aldus PageMaker.... sigh! such days when all the world seemed fine.

Madame X profile image

Madame X  says:
4 weeks ago

aguasilver - LOL! Lots of folks here on hubs seem to have imbibed these tactics without any help from me !

Yes, those were the days. Silicon Valley was an actual meritocracy rather than a 'who knew who' club. I rolled out a number of Macs up to the MacPlus. It's always so fun to hear about what people did with the first Macs. DTP was the hottest thing for designers and typesetters. It was all so new and exciting. --- sigh--- Thanks for stopping by :)

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