To Obey the Law
57There's always been some hotly contested debate about the law of the Old Testament, and what exactly Jesus was sent to do about them. On one side, we have those who claim that we must follow these laws to the letter if we are to receive God's grace. On the other side we have those that claim that Christ abolished the law, and we can do what we please.
"Anything goes. I can lie, steal, and cheat, because the blood of Christ covers me. I am one of God's elect." - A chick tract satire.
Are either of these true? No, they're not. If we are to follow the laws to the letter, then grace is a hopeless cause, because in this context it doesn't work. Yet, the Bible tells us that none of us are capable of following the law by ourselves.
James 2:9-11 (King James Version)
9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Now, let us add in;
Romans 3:23 (King James Version)
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
So, here we have it. If we hold on to the law, but break just one, then we are guilty of breaking them all. But, all men sin, and no man (save for Jesus) can fully obey the law.
Now, does this mean we can do whatever we want? No, it doesn't. For the law, especially the ten commandments are ones that any human should follow. Even the Godless, evil, gentiles were able to follow the commandments, because they were written in their hearts. The ten commandments all encompass the one law: Love the Lord with all your heart, body, mind, and soul; and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
How do we do this? We love God by not following or worshiping imposters of Him, we love him by not making stupid idols and bowing to them. (Allow me to digress for a moment. The gnostics, for once point out something of consideration. God created us, and we worship God. Humans have created gods, so should not these "gods" worship man? But these idols cannot worship, nor can they offer blessings, because they are still objects.) We love Him by not taking His name in vain.
How do we love one another, and ourselves? We do this by not stealing from each other, by not lying, or slandering against each other. We do this by not committing adultery, or by wanting after our neighbor's possessions.
And here's the kicker, these are laws are such common sense, that even those who've never heard the 10 commandments know instinctively, about them. Oh sure, they might not say, "Having sex with my neighbor's wife is wrong." but inside they know that the very act causes pain, and know that they shouldn't perform it.
So, the law is common sense, but how come man can't follow it? It is because man is inherently sinful by nature. Sin is opposed to law, and vice versa, and because sin abideth in man, the law cannot prevail in them. The ONLY way we can follow the law (the 10 commandments, not those over 600 nonsensical laws; no eating this or that, no wearing clothes of two different fabrics, etc etc.) is through Jesus Christ, the only perfect man. By our focus on Him, we can fully obey the primary law. And the best part? We can obey it without even having to struggle!
Because Jesus was sent to fulfill the law, to see us be fulfilled in it.
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Comments
I've read your hub. While most of those laws may obviously be followed, there are obviously some that aren't, (especially in the 'free religious' countries.)
1. When was the last time you heard about ANY city in the USA being burned for their idolatry practices?
2. Men everywhere in the USA (and other countries) shave their beards with a razor, and also the sides of their heads.
3. Women wear what may be considered, "men's clothing" (jeans, t-shirts, boots, shoes.)
4. The law of the judges; right, like ANY judge here in this country actually acts like what they should.
I could go on and on, but my point should be clear. If we are NOT under grace (and we are.) and are under the law (we're not.) then all of us are completely screwed, because all of us have broken just one law, and as a result we have broken ALL of the laws.
Fortunately, thanks to God's ultimate plan, He can reconcile us through faith, and not the law.
Well in response to your comments above:
We are under grace to cover our shortcomings, when we need grace it is there, not to be trampled under foot, but when we have need of grace and mercy. We need it because we break HIS laws, not because we don't find them to be holy, just and good, indeed spiritual as the scriptures call them. It uses all 4 words to tell us what Torah is. Look at where it came from and HE is all 4 of those words too.
The law is for the rebellious, the ignorant and the keeping society in line with moral and ethical practices. Even as believers we can violate it's teachings and be found in need of grace. The sinner on the other hand, has no access to the grace of GOD. That is the difference.
I still ask you though. Which one's on the site I posted did you find that you do not need to follow? They were 10 questions. Any answers? Which ones did you personally take offense to?
http://hubpages.com/hub/Instruction-for-living
4. The law of the judges; right, like ANY judge here in this country actually acts like what they should. (that does not nullify the command to be just does it now? I am not changing GODS law because men do not obey it am I?)
3. Women wear what may be considered, "men's clothing" (jeans, t-shirts, boots, shoes.)...(well that is a choice they make too, again it does not change the Torah does it? anymore than having sex with an animal changes it, or not paying your debts, or punching your mother, doing any of those things does not change the instructions)
2. Men everywhere in the USA (and other countries) shave their beards with a razor, and also the sides of their heads. (OK, but why, what is the purpose? the point?...I suppose this one is personal choice, but you have to ask your self why did GOD say not to do it?...just like not to tattoo your body, why?)
1. When was the last time you heard about ANY city in the USA being burned for their idolatry practices? (well, I think if this was done, we would have no idolatry in the land. This was when they went to war against a city that they were told to crush though. They followed instructions)
You said; "I could go on and on." (well, you can if you find fault with them all, please make your case)
We have all broken 1 and are guilty, but that does not make the law evil because we are under grace and this is NOT WHAT PAUL TAUGHT. He said "so, if we are under grace, should we break the law?...GOD forbid!!!"
If I am under grace do I just tell some guy, "hey give me your wife dude!!???"
If the Torah is a tutor...then let us get tutored by it until you are brought to Messiah over and over and over again if we break it...that is what it does...HE said the Torah points you to ME...THE I AM wrote it!!!
Shalom
>>If I am under grace do I just tell some guy, "hey give me your wife dude!!???"
Now I have to wonder, did you actually READ my hub? If you had, you would know that I wrote about how the law was written in the hearts of the gentiles; that they would be aware that sleeping with another person's wife is wrong. Maybe not because they fear God, but because they have some respect for their fellow man.
I can already tell that you're someone who views the law as being more important than grace. I'm on the complete opposite, and no, this does NOT mean that I abolish the law. However, I don't go beating myself up, because God forbid I wear jeans!
Ephesians 2:7-9 (King James Version)
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
We can follow the laws all we want, but if we don't have God given faith then it means nothing.
The comment about the wife was tongue in cheek to make a point...I should have picked one less obvious. I do take the law very serious, NOT over grace, but that having grace and faith and mercy to obey is what I am saying. HE teaches us by HIS grace to obey HIM right?...He knows we are weak so He gives grace to live by HIS teachings right?
Are there any of the commandments you can't stand for?
Any you find fault with GOD for saying to them and us?
Can you find 10 of them you dislike?
OK, no big deal you ware jeans, what about all the other things He wrote and spoke to do and not do? Are they valid?
Good chatting with you and hope to continue my friend...I am saved by grace through faith and I have learned to obey His instructions. Can you find fault with that?
My hub on Carrie got flagged, they won't say why. But it had 200 reads in 30 hours. Oh well.
Shalom
I can name a few that I have a hard time following. Mostly it's the dress code, hey what can I say, I like wearing jeans and t-shirts.
There's also the tattoo issue. I don't have any tattoos myself, not because there's that law, but because a tattoo is permanent and I've never found anything I want to place on my body permanently. However, I'd like to think that the tattoo thing was banned because of the potential for diseases; likely they didn't sterilize their needles will enough. Today, legal tattoo parlors are required to use new needles for every client. The whole risk is the artist screwing up. (Angle instead of angel, having stars tattooed on your face, and having the artist screw up the image you wanted.)
I almost wish that the law regarding judges was followed; it seems that today's judges can be bought off with money.
As long as you don't place the works/law above grace.
Yes, I noticed that, no doubt it was because of SD's flag. That's a shame, and it's now evident that Carrie isn't going to repent anytime soon.
Her hub is gone!!!She claimed "I am innocent to everything"
Yeah like I just made all that stuff up and wrote 14,784 words and took 12 hours just to get a hub flagged.
Sir Dent is a diaper wearing bottle sucking little cry baby (truck driver soldier coming out of me) and should have just posted his comment and went back to his Kleenex tissue box!!!
Don't sweat the pants, what it means is to not dress like a man to look like a man or for a man to dress like a woman to look like one (drag queen)...some women dress in all mens clothing (dike)...but i mean if you dress like a female and show a feminine side...cool...it's obvious to dress like a man all together.
Tattoos were used to make them as heathens and idol worshipers, writing what they liked on the body, just like today, and they would cut them selves...it still goes on...now in America too.
You see, I understand both sides of Torah and grace, being a Jewish Messianic believer I can teach the whole thing, so please understand me if you can.
Regards,
Shalom
P.S. I mean you no harm if I come off rather direct...I talk like Paul does.
Hoo boy, why am I not surprised?
I'm not too surprised about the hub being flagged. Sir Dent has gotten another hub about Carrie flagged.
I hold no anger towards you, but I cannot agree with your beliefs.
No harm done.
She does have people that "protect her"!!!
I think if Carrie wanted something flagged, she could press the button herself NO?
My hub on her was going ballistic and comments were flying in left, right, front and center. Leave it to some whack job to go and censor healthy discussion. I hope you at least saw where I was coming from, it appears you did :-)
OK I understand that you cannot agree with my beliefs.
Which one do you disagree with the most?
Shalom
Lackeys, I've seen them before. You have people who have some sort of following, and if anyone says anything against them their lackeys will be the first to attack.
So I did, and yeah I know where you're coming from.
You focus on the law as much as grace right? Well, when I focus on Jesus Christ (only) I notice that I am less inclined to sin (I have issues with anger.) But, when I focus on the law, I find that I lose focus of Jesus Christ, and wind up falling.
Someone once told me that if you obsess over trying not to screw up on something, chances are you're going to screw up, and badly. I know first hand how true this can be.
I come from a military back ground and found that when you are given commands, you follow them...if you drop one, you admit it and move on...sometimes you face consequences for them too.
Same thing with instructions from GOD....you obey them, if you fail, ask forgiveness, get grace and move forward.
It's very simple...HE is a kind commander...a commander none the less.
I obey HIM because I love HIM just like He said to do..."if...you love ME then obey ME"...straight forward and clear.
Grace, mercy, love, obey, commands, laws, instructions...all good things. :-)
I embrace them all as a whole...to love GOD is to do as HE tells you. This is the 1st commandment...amen?
Shalom
There in lies a big difference between us. You are of a military background, I am not. You view him as a commander; I view him as a friend. You follow the laws because he commands you to? I obey (through grace and faith given unto me by Christ) the laws, because friends don't hurt friends.
Now let's say that you have a friend coming over, and you tell your friend that there are a few rules you want them to obey. Now, would you much rather have your friend focus on you, or only these rules?
"You view him as a commander; I view him as a friend."
HE IS BOTH to me. :-) :-) :-)
THE LORD IS MY FRIEND as well, this is how HE first introduced Himself to me 30 years ago when I was 17 years young. That is how He approaches people to start. The Friend, The Savior, The One who lays own His life for you, to show He loves you.
As time goes on He wants to be your LORD, Teacher, Commander, Your Lover, your Helper, and so much more. He has to many fascists to name here. He is also known as the many breasted ONE.
He takes you along slowly ino deeper and deeper obedience until He is known as YOUR LORD AND YOUR GOD...this is way beyond just friendship.
When HE said to the disciples "I call you friends"...that was to tell them, "I lay down my life for MY friends"...He also told them "if you love ME, then obey ME commands"...you see, THE COMMANDER and THE FRIEND???
HE is not either or, HE is both and so much more I would have to write a hub to large to fit on the net to make it clear.
HE caught me in HIS net 30 years ago, I am now 47 and the relationship has developed from friend, to commander and to king and everything in between...but all of it is the whole way that I know HIM now...HE never stops being my closest friend...it's just that my closest FRIEND just happens to be "THE LORD GOD OF ARMIES"...as HE calls Himself in the scriptures, HE is also THE KING OF KINGS...Kings give orders, commands and instructions and they love the people, if they are a righteous king.
A soldier loves his commander and obeys orders without question...American believers hate this idea.
"If you love ME, then obey MY commandments"...big word IF, always getting in the way.
Shalom
So is Jesus a dictatorial commander?
You also seem to be thinking that I advocate breaking the law, when I really don't. But, see, I don't place the law higher than God. Yeah, maybe you'll say that the Law is God, but that's like people saying that the Bible is Jesus, and we should worship the Bible.
The law is a measuring stick to show us that by the law alone, we are far from God. It's only through his faith and grace that we become close to him.
So is Jesus a dictatorial commander?
No He is a righteous loving KING of all KINGS who proved it by giving HIS life for us all. HE is a physician too and sometimes HE has to cut on you first, then heal you.
HE does not rule like men rule, like a dictator. HE commands out of HIS love. HE should be obeyed because HE first loved us.
You also seem to be thinking that I advocate breaking the law, when I really don't.
I know you don't, that has been clarified.
I don't place the law higher than God.
Nor do I, it is HIS word, HIS instructions, in Hebrew it means instructions (Torah). If someone who loves you has instructions for you, you might listen, you might not, you have the CHOICE. I do not worship the instructions, I worship the ONE who gave them. Big difference. I value them because of the ONE who gave them is who I adore.
Yeah, maybe you'll say that the Law is God, but that's like people saying that the Bible is Jesus, and we should worship the Bible.
The Torah is NOT GOD, GOD is GOD, His Word is TRUTH...even Yahshua (Jesus) obeyed THE WORD OF HIS FATHER. So should I and so should we.
I do not worship the bible. I follow it in truth.
"Those who worship Me must do so in spirit and in TRUTH"
Shalom
I see that there's the chasm between us, so, what say we just end the discussion for now? (Actually, I have nothing else to say.)
10-4
quietnessandtrust says:
5 months ago
Hi there: You may want to look at your comment "not those over 600 nonsensical laws"...then read my hub please.
Here is my own list on a hub I just published of things that still apply to us, they spell out in a more defined way what believers should know. They are backed up in the New Testament too.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Instruction-for-living