Vegetarian vs Vegan
72For all my fellow earthy crunchies out there...
I decided to point out some misconceptions about the vegan vs vegetarian diet that I have come across on the web. I am not vegan or vegetarian myself, but I have plenty of friends who are. That being said....
By definition, a vegetarian diet is one where one stops eating the flesh of all animals (and yes, unlike the Catholic belief system, fish are indeed animals), as well as stopping the use of all animal byproducts that cause harm to the animal. The most common mistake that I have seen is vegetarians eating jello. Jello is made from gelatin, a product of boiling animal (most commonly cow) cartallige. Vegetarians can also wear wool, as well as eat honey, eggs, and dairy products, as the animals are not harmed in their creation. Obviously no fur, no leather.
A vegan diet is the extreme version. In a vegan diet, there is no meat OR animal byproducts. As I have already stated, I know both vegans and vegetarians. There are plently of flaws with these types of diets.
With vegetarian diets, you have to be cautious and DO YOUR RESEARCH before begining one, or you will end up very sick. There are certain amino acids and protiens that the human body needs that are most commonly found within animal protiens. It is harder to get enough of them within a vegetarian diet. If your main concern is the antibiotics and growth hormones that some meat companies feed their livestock, there are organic alternatives out there. It is a bit more pricey than regular meat, but the animals are fed a better diet, making the meat itself healthier for you.
Vegan diets are totally unhealthy, as you deny your body key protiens. Out of my two friends who are/were vegan, one has been in and out of the hospital with a plethora of medical conditions and, against the advice of a physician, is still a vegan. The other was getting really sick, ended up with a thyroid condition, and had to go back to an omnivorous diet or he was going to die.
And then, you have the lack of dairy products. This can lead to a condition called osteoporosis, most commonly in women (men, you CAN get it too). And most calcium suppliments are animal based.
As for vegan pet foods... These really irk me. Cats and ferrets are obligate carnivores. Feeding a non-meat based diet can and will give them insulomia and/or diabeties. Dogs are omnivorous, but a diet with no meat will actually shorten their lifespan. My friend who is vegan feeds his ferret raw, because he knows that what he feels is best for himself, is not good for an obligate carnivore.
In closing, this is the only body that you have. Take care of it. Consult your doctor before any big diet changes. It doesnt take a PHD to realize that if you are genetically predisposed to certain medical conditions, you really shouldnt become vegetarian or vegan.
If you want to campaign for animal rights, start with the small stuff. Protest puppy/kitten/ferret mills. Stop using fur, especially furs like mink or fox that are only used for that purpose. Boycott cosmetic companies that use animals for research. Dont eat meat that is kosher. But dont kill yourself or your pets to make a point.
And to all the vegetarians out there, if you see someone eating a rare steak, please dont start preaching. Its probably me.
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A quote form one of my favorite music artists would fit in nicely just about now...
"I am for God and for religion. I am just anti-hypocrisy..."
~Voltaire
I'm confused about how that quote possibly fits in? I was merely responding to your statement which was not factual. Sorry the comment rubbed you the wrong way.
I'm a vegan, and have been for many years. I take issue with a number of your statements and opinions regarding vegetarianism and veganism. My objections, point by point, follow:
First of all, you state that animals are not harmed in the creation (by which I assume you mean commercial production) of wool, honey, eggs and dairy products. This is not accurate. I suggest you visit some large-scale operations producing each of these items and observe how the animals are treated.
Also please consider that veal, arguably one of the most cruelty-intensive animal products available, is a direct by-product of the dairy industry. (Male calves of dairy cows become veal.)
Second, you call a vegan diet " . . . the extreme version." Your use of the word "extreme" seems to imply that the kind of diet you are applying it to is a little nutty. There are extreme vegans, to be sure, but there are also moderate ones, and the practice of veganism in general does not deserve to be slandered by calling it extreme, at least not in the way you are using the word.
You're right in saying that prospective vegetarians and vegans should do their nutritional research. So, however, should omnivores. There are many new facts about nutrition that the people who raised us never knew, and face it, most of us learned about nutrition from what our parents or caregivers fed us. This is not the best source of nutritional information. And I won't even go into the fact that many omnivores eat terribly unhealthy diets full of animal fats and trans fats. Do you not see that it is far more extreme to eat any significant part of a diet from fast food stores, as many people now do? It is actually more extreme, from a health viewpoint, simply to eat animal products at the rate most Americans eat them.
For people who want to become vegan or vegetarian, I recommend that you read "Becoming Vegetarian" and "Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis. She is a registered nutritionist and can give proper advice on how to eat such diets in a healthy manner.
You state that "Vegan diets are totally unhealthy, as you deny your body key proteins." This is an uninformed and misleading statement. Rice and beans, eaten together or even in the same day, form a complete protein in the body. Read a little before you write crazy things, please. That several of your friends ended up sick by eating improperly does not begin to support the ideas you so carelessly promulgate.
Let us not forget that the program recommended by Dr. Dean Ornish consists of a low-fat, mostly or all vegan diet, augmented by exercise and support. His work has been published by respected peer-reviewed medical journals. Several major insurance companies and even Medicare will pay for his program as an alternative to major surgery on heart patients. I invite you to educate yourself on this program. A good place to start is at WebMD:
http://www.webmd.com/content/pages/9/3068_9408.htm
You claim that people need dairy to be healthy. Please consider that the milk of mammals is designed by nature to bring the young of a species from infancy to youth. Use of animal milk and its by-products may actually contribute to osteoporosis in humans, and has been linked to development of juvenile diabetes in cases where human infants were fed cow's milk. Leafy green vegetables, to name only one vegetarian source, are full of both iron and calcium. You really don't know the first thing about the subject you have tried, so very assertively, to address here.
You do get some points for being, to the best of my knowledge, correct about cats. Ferrets are outside of my experience. However, I know people who have fed large dogs a vegan diet, and the dogs have lived (and some are still living) longer than other, omnivorous dogs I have known, of similar size. While my evidence for this one point is apocryphal, so is yours. If we're going with apocryphal evidence, well, my experience with this aspect of vegetarianism is probably wider than yours is, and is therefore the stronger argument.
Also, lecturing other folks on how to campaign for animal rights is really silly, not to mention quite offensive. Since you aren't an animal rights activist, you haven't (again) the first idea of what you're trying to discuss. It's insulting.
As for preaching, do you actually not see that you are the one doing all of the preaching here? In my experience of this issue, which is long and varied, the people who scream the loudest are meat-eaters who seem to feel so very threatened by we who prefer to march to our own drumbeat and eat as our consciences dictate. I've seen a few preachy vegetarians and vegans, but they are generally very young and passionate, and have yet to learn how to effectively express themselves on issues they feel strongly about. Most of those who proselytize against vegetarianism cannot fall back on youth as an excuse.
This piece you have written would not satisfy the most basic requirements for even a high school research paper. You provide no evidence, beyond the sketchy device of several "friends," the existence of whom I am not entirely convinced. Please, before you attempt to dissuade people from trying what is a very healthy, environmentally more sustainable, and more compassionate way of life, do a little research.
"This piece you have written would not satisfy the most basic requirements for even a high school research paper. You provide no evidence, beyond the sketchy device of several "friends," the existence of whom I am not entirely convinced. Please, before you attempt to dissuade people from trying what is a very healthy, environmentally more sustainable, and more compassionate way of life, do a little research."
Wow. Long-winded, tedious post for the lose. And you provide even less evidence than the OP did, quoting as you did one WebMD article, which itself describes a diet that's no better or worse than any of the other diets out there written by self-stylized 'nutritionists'. (Atkins, anyone?)
Nobody's arguing the right of vegetarians and vegans to eat what they want. But to proselytize that it is somehow 'healthier' or even the same as a regular diet is reaching. To match the proteins, nutrients and amino acids in even a single trout requires a bewildering array of plant foods - and even then you're still lacking some vitamins.
Vitamin B12 is necessary for good nerve and brain health, and is also key to good blood production. It can only be obtained from meat or from artificial sources. Vegans must therefore supplement their diet with artificially produced vitamins - so much for 'healthy' and 'natural'. A lot of vegans probably don't take the supplement, which explains a lot imo.
Lastly, your comment that milk causes osteoperosis is stupid beyond words. And by 'stupid' I mean 'false and untrue'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteoperosis
Take the time to actually research something before you take for granted what PETA and other organizations shove down your throat.
Bett B.... You have definitely proved your case and even though i chose to be an omnivore your viewpoint has definitely given me advice, more so than this article. You definitely got you point accoss.
I agree whole-heartedly with the OP here. Bett B stated that:
"First of all, you state that animals are not harmed in the creation (by which I assume you mean commercial production) of wool, honey, eggs and dairy products. This is not accurate. I suggest you visit some large-scale operations producing each of these items and observe how the animals are treated. Also please consider that veal, arguably one of the most cruelty-intensive animal products available, is a direct by-product of the dairy industry. (Male calves of dairy cows become veal.)"
That is not entirely accurate. In commercial operations, yes, the animals are sometimes treated abysmally. Knowing that, buy locally. All of my meat, dairy, honey, and the wool that I use for crocheting come from local farms in my area. That way, I am well aware of how the animals are treated, and in the case of meat, killed.
Jan Vu makes a good point with the Vitamin B12. And as for the osteoporosis, it runs in my family and I have been told to drink at least three glasses of milk per day. While its true that cow's milk is not the healthiest milk on the market, it in no way causes osteoporosis. If you want to drink milk that is easier to digest, try goat's milk:
http://altmedangel.com/milkcomp.htm
http://www.goatworld.com/articles/goatmilk/goatmil
Also, as for the comment:
"And I won't even go into the fact that many omnivores eat terribly unhealthy diets full of animal fats and trans fats."
I'd like to propose a new diet. Called the diet of common sense! If you eat red meat every night and never touch an apple or a carrot, of course you are eating badly. If you eat a pound of pasta at a sitting, of course you're eating too many carbs. These are extreme examples, but still. Use common sense when you eat. That goes for everyone.
"Do you not see that it is far more extreme to eat any significant part of a diet from fast food stores, as many people now do? "
If you dont know by now that fast food is bad for you, than you are an idiot. Anything deep fried andor greasy is obviously bad for you. On the nights that I get 'fast food' I go for Subway or Taco Bell, which are heatlhier than a lot of the alternatives.
http://www.fatcalories.com/sr_mcdonalds.cfm
"Also, lecturing other folks on how to campaign for animal rights is really silly, not to mention quite offensive. Since you aren't an animal rights activist, you haven't (again) the first idea of what you're trying to discuss. It's insulting."
I am pro-animal rights. And yes, I eat meat. I feel it is small-minded of you to tell anyone that they have no idea of how to responsibly campaign for animal rightrs. I find that comment insulting. I personally think that every suggestion that the OP made on how to start with animal rights is perfectly acceptable.
Well, look this whole thing about the milk being good for your bones is certainyla rguable, the reason it is said that it isn't is because of the high protein content of milk, and protein leaches calcium from your bones, that is why people say that.
Also, the vitamin B12 argument is ridiculous, since MOST foods people eat are fortified, I can't see an issue with B12.
B12 doesn't come from meat either. B12 is created by a bacteria that grows on dead flesh, aslo in an ideal natural world vegans could easily get B12 from nature as it is in the soil that our vegetables grow.
So, if we weren't such a clean world, and so vigorously into cleaning our vegetables then we would be eating B!2, it is also in most natural water sources prior to being filtered.
Another thing about B12, most of us have atleast 30 years worht of vitamin B12 stored in our livers, so a weekly or even monthly supplement is only neccesary if you aren't eating fortified foods.
Proteins have already been addressed, anyway there is protein in almost all foods including fruit.
Really people, you need to relax.
Why are people so threatned by how another person eats, it is just ridiculous.
Stop the madness!
Vegans can be healty just as people who consume animal products can be unhealthy. Though I do tend to side with the educated vegan in this argument, as they must gain experise in both vegan and omnivorous diets in order to eat a healthy diet.
So basically what you're saying is you're gay.
please articualte your ideas more clearly Tila.That comment does not have any logical thoughts, just a crude comment.
I think Tila is suggesting that you are a homosexual.
So I am deciding whether or not to be vegetarian, I do not like the idea of constantly consuming meat,...that I think is not entirely healthy.( consuming flesh of another and consuming it into your own) Though my point is this,... I am trying to recieve as much information as possible before I start,... and I appreciate as perspectives. I did not agree with everything you stated...however the paper was clear and I don't care if it is at a high school level or not because that was not the point I don't think. I do agree with the "preeching" concept though. For those of you out there who "preech" about your belife on being vegetarian or vegan... Don't. just don't. It makes people feel bad and if they chose to become veg then great!But that's their desion and not yours and you can never change a person by force.So let them enjoy what their eating and at least don't "preech" while their eating. Please out of respect and courtisy. Thank you.
Thank you!!! I still do not eat meat yet I am not going completly vegetarian. However my main point is that I learned from looking at vegetarian and vegan information...You really are not quite as healthy as you think you are.For example I will not go and eat a hot dog, for you really do not even get in as much protien as you think you do...Anyway....I appreciete what you said and I agree with most of the information you presented. So thank you, and for all those who are deceiding to become vegetarian please do think about it throughly and carefully for it really is a major desion and affects you for all your life.
i found both your article and the ensuing comments very interesting.
i too have had my dabblings with both vegetarian & vegan ethical thinking and still continue to consume meat & dairy. as someone who prides myself upon trying to live a lifestyle which causes minimal pain & suffering to any other... man or beast... i fully commend your attempts at enlightening others to the real alternatives available to all whether vegan, vegetarian or omnivore!!!
please visit my hub 'cruelty in cuisine' which i created with the same idea in mind. i wold appreciate your comments or contributions. peas & rice & all things nice. Loubeeloo. xx
- Vegetarian diet info
Great reference, but consult a doctor before any major diet changes.
safetyfirst says:
2 years ago
Just wanted to let you know that Catholics do in fact believe that fish are animals. The exception to eating fish on Fridays deals more with the idea that abstaining from meat (in this sense meaning warm blooded animals) is a sacrifice. It doesn't imply that Catholics don't believe that fish are animals.