What happens when we discuss religion and politics?
69Disclaimer: This hub is totally my personal opinion based on my online and offline experiences.
Recently I have been following various hubs where religion or politics is hotly debated. I was wondering why these two subjects primarily evoke so much passion when discussing.
I was trying to understand myself before I try to evaluate others. Now for me it has taken a little over two decades of existence on this planet. My opinions or beliefs are formed due to my background, education and experiences in life which may not be similar to some body else. Hence whether I am justified in seeing things from only my perspective and whether my perspective is the only correct perspective? The answer to both these question is NO.
Lots of times when I have had to deal with Hinduism or Indian issues I tend to get defensive but then slowly I feel I have to understand that as many people are there so many views would be there. When I have hardly understood myself completely then what to speak of even judging myself. Then understanding others who may have had a different background, education and experiences in life takes some time hence not advisable for me to jump on to the "judgement" boat quickly. And also when I am very liberal with myself for my short comings but strict with others about theirs (which may not be even short comings but just my misconception). Another personal experience I would like to share when around this time last year when I had put on some weight I had planned to exercize at least 4 days in a week and modify my diet but didn't came around to do it till October last year. I tried to justify or rationalize all my behavior or attitude(no time or I look ok) even when I am in full control of myself(mind/body) but tend to have irrational expectation from others on whom I have no control. Hence I feel it takes a while for us to understand each other better before we can go on to judge each other.
When I joined my present company during the first few weeks when I wanted to impress others(one of those foolish moments) in the team I made a suggestion which my colleague who had joined a few months earlier than me disagreed with me. That day I went home and thought long about it. Then an idea struck me about a case study that we did in my Masters for a Software Project Management course where each of us had to do role playing i..e, exchange our roles from being a Business Analyst, Systems Analyst, Programmer and Marketing person. So now I tried to analyze all the positives in my colleagues proposition and all the negatives in my proposition. And next day during the meeting when I presented my analysis to the team my colleague was pleasantly surprised and to this day he is one of my closest colleagues at work. When we change the way we look at things then the things we look at change. Therefore its not always about winning an argument(again subjective who decides who finally won) rather than winning a friend?
Another incident from my life which I would like to share is this: My father was a successful lawyer before he joined the Navy to be a Judge and he had this piece of advice for us when we were kids. People who agree with you be nice to them and people who disagree with you be nicer to them. Now I agree when people are online that level of face to face interaction doesn't take place but then at the end of the day there is a person who is writing it and another person reading it. Wouldn't it be nice if we could be nice to each other and try to disagree agreeably.
Now finally many a times I have also lost my temper and have not been polite enough to others(its my fault and my parents didn't raise me like that). I don't claim myself to be a saint by any standards. But I do know that if some one needs to get a message across then there are couple of things to be kept in mind. Sometimes I may think I am "right" and can do away with being nice/considerate towards others. But then if the person doesn't like me or amenable to me then even if I have the highest wisdom(which I don't have) in the world the other person would be switched off towards what I have to say. It is both an art and science how to get our message to the other person. It is important to understand what to say, when to say and how to say it. More ever when some one disagrees with us for a valid reasons than that is an education experience in itself to see things from a different perspective. We all would like to have a positive and happy experience being online. And as far as possible most of us don't intend to cause any ill feelings towards others. So here's hoping for a better understanding and mutual respect while discussing both online/offline.
A quote from Mother Teresa: "How can you love God whom you do not see, if you do not love your neighbour whom you see, whom you touch, with whom you live?"
Do you think online communication makes people less polite to each other?
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I agree, if you have nothing nice to say just shut up and keep it to yourself But if you can't help it, just make sure that you know how to take what you give because what goes around comes around...in the same manner that if you smile, the world will smile back at you. :D
Just like when people are in their cars and swearing at other drivers and displaying their middle fingers to the rest of the world, they feel safe hiding in front of their computers. People would never act that way in public. Good topic.
Countrywoman,
I suppose I hang out here with the same group of very open, accepting and non-judgemental folks on HubPages. Most seem to accept all religions openly or they keep it to themselves. I don't have time to "debate" religion; religious differences are at the root of most hatred and violence on earth both now and throughout history--and I think it's stupid.
Everyone should be free to believe as they like. We should judge eachother's belief system but we cannot help but judge the violent actions brought about by the fringe of people who believe those who don't believe as they do should be eliminated.
Good hub; good food for thought!
SweetiePie- You mean people intentionally behave that way online. I was having a discussion with my childhood friend with whom I used to exchange letters in India that with the advent of emails the essence of content/form has changed a lot. Maybe people who do come online don't have that much time or feel the necessary effort required to put in to be nice unlike in a face to face situation. Now you really praise me too much (I have had my weak moments too just so that you know).
Cris- That is so true when we are nice to others then sooner or later they may also be nice to us. Do unto... seems appropriate. But some how I am sure if we all meet each other face to face we would have such wonderful opinion about each other I just wish even online we have the same opinion.
Joe- Do you really do that? OMG till I got hands free for my cell I never used to even receive calls while driving. I guess you are an expert driver then to do multitasking...hehe. Well I was reading about collaborative technologies and in future we may have more people interacting across the globe using these technologies hence we need to be able to simulate the real world experiences to those scenarios.
Thanks everybody for stopping by and commenting.
Madison- I am not generalizing per se but in a few instances in certain hubs and in forums even recently about Bible or Israel there have been far too many feathers ruffled. Well coming to judging this is what I feel that we have to understand well enough before we can judge. Often many a times when we have gaps in our understanding then to complete the picture we fill it with our own perceptions which may lead to incorrect judgement. We have to take more time & effort and not try to arrive at conclusions quickly. This is again my personal opinion. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Religion and Politics are beliefs and values which all people identify with emotionally and mentally. Therefore it is taken it personally when others disagree. It is percieved as an attack and the reaction is swift and angry. I do not think one is ruder online .......
People get discriminated against and even killed for having a different religion or belonging to a minority community. Online at least people dont get wounded or killed
There is a saying "One person enter into the new village, and ask native of that village how is this village, that person replies as long as your mouth is good the village is good" Nice hub CW
Ritu- You are right people get personal and become very emotional. I just wanted to understand if face to face we are bit more nicer dealing with such issues. But you are right the worst you can do or the best you can do (depending on how you see it) is throw words at each other. But the ripple effects of those words do hurt and it takes a while for some to recover. I won't go into the details but over here I was once alluded as a "terrorist" which does rankle me even now. Hence a wound can be defined both as a physical or mental hurt. I partly agree with you at the same time there is more to it than that meets the eye. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Bhoge- That is so true. If we have a sweet tongue then the world becomes sweet towards us. Btw is that a Hindi saying? I do like phrases and idioms just was curious about it. Even Cris earlier was mentioning what goes around comes around. I am glad that you liked this hub. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
You're certainly not afraid to open a can or worms, CW! :) I admire you for that, the way you candidly bring forth you opinion, even when it has the potential to ruffle a lot of feathers! Well done!! If I weren't your fan, I'd be now, but it's a moot point, because I am already! Laugh! And thumps up, of course!
Elena- Really you feel this is a can of worms? Well even I have been ruffled sometimes online..hehe. Even I am your fan or rather AC (Air conditioner better than a fan)...LOL
I am not sure of the Thumbs up concept yet as this hub started at 49 and now has come down to 47. I am still wondering about the algorithm of this individual hub ranking and overall ranking...hehe
well obvioulsy, both are very subjective topics. so, it is said to keep peace with your friends don't talk about either.
Vrajavala- Actually some of my best friends are Christians & Muslims hence I can say this that when you are true friends then it certainly doesn't matter as we can discuss anything when we know at the bottom of our heart that we like each other a lot. But this is just my personal opinion based on my friends may be in general what you say maybe true. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Very well done.
Ande- Thanks for the appreciation. Glad that you liked it. Thanks for stopping by.
Nice hub CW. I think all differences should be embraced, if not enjoyed. I tell people, the bottom line is this; God gave us free will. If you can't accept that, then you will live a very frustrated life.
Seek first to understand. Accept, approve, appreciate. Be the example you want the world to be.
Ask yourself, "If everyone in this _____ were just like me, what kind of _____ would it be?"
ParadigmShift- Just as your name suggests we need a paradigm shift in how we look at so many things. And you hit the bulls eye of this article when you said UNDERSTAND each other. It is so true if everyone in the world is similar than it would be a very boring world isn't it. There is a saying in India that says God didn't like too much peace/quiet that's why he created husband/wife relationship to make life interesting...LOL
Now I am going in tangents I better stop. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Well-timed hub, and some great examples - one of them reminded me of the Six thinking hats exercise. That's right our beliefs determine so much of how we see the world, and our willingness to go beyond acceptance and be united with others regardless of their opinion, colour, religion etc is the next critical step - online, offline, face-to-face. We argue so defensively and hurtfully for our own positions and then we wonder why no one gets along. lol
LifeByDesign- I don't know about Six thinking hats and will have to research more about it. Yes that does surprise me when we all know that just as difficult for us to put ourselves in other person's shoes is so is it for the person too to put themselves in our shoes. It is often the case when we feel why the other person doesn't understand me when in reality we also don't understand the other person thoroughly. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Wonderful HUb, CW - you are one of the most considerate posters on Hubpages.
Online, it is so easy to forget that the other person is a thinking and feeling person. Without cues from body language, facial expressions and tone of voice, you cannot gauge how upset the other person is. I am not perfect, by a long shot, but I try to imagine sitting opposite the person having a coffee.
On the other hand, there are a few 'keyboard warriors' who would not dare speak like that face-to-face!
CW: I have been online since the 90's, and for some reason it has never been my interest to argue online or offline about religion, politics, spirituality or any topic, because an argument is not going to change a person's belief system, but we all have different temperaments, part of the human range of experience. Of course, some folks I would never connect to, its our right to choose who we play with.
I think the online experience brings out whatever is on the inside of us, much like alcohol, if we are angry, insecure, prejuidiced on the inside, the anonymity of a computer screen will allow it to be expressed more freely , much like the lowering of our defenses after having a drink. From a spiritual perspective, the online experience is allowing the whole world to connect (well most of it), and if we are open and wise, we can learn a lot from one another; in the midst of some unpleasantness, I also see much beauty in humans, have met them throughout the years, some who are here in hubpages, one of them is you.
Thanks for a good thought provoking hub- better stop writing before it gets too long.:)
Hi CW,
A wonderful hub, as always. I especially love this line where you state When we change the way we look at things then the things we look at change. A simple concept, but so difficult to put into practice for many.
Polite persons will always be polite through any means of communication. Some immature people tend to be rash while being online. But I use to ignore them, because it does not affect me and shows their immaturity and ignorance only. But many Indians are mature enough not to be affected by irrational or immature comments when coming online. You, as an Indian, are very polite and I have not seen you losing balance anywhere (online).
Most people get excited when they engage in debating politics or religion. People with vast knowledge accept facts, even if they hurt their religion or political affinity. But some people argue like "my religion is one and only true religion" and "my country is over and above all other countries". That is immature. When a difference comes out of an online arguments, some people go to the extent of personally attacking others, which shows their stuff have emptied. When they cant give a suitable reply, they go out of way and accuse or abuse the opponents personally, without even seeing them personally.
Such people need to understand that nothing happens as we wish; what has happened for our religion, or country cannot be reversed by us. We can only salvage our prestige during our lifetime. Accusing others cannot be a remedy for our previous happenings.
G'day countrywomen, I wonder again how such a young person as yourself can have such a wonderful outlook on life.
I guess I agree with Chris and yourself that you should treat people how you yourself wish to be treated. (a fundamental christian belief). I believe it is mentioned in the bible somewhere!
BTW saint hood still awaits? LOL :-[)
My Dad used to hear it from my teachers that I was very challenging to deal with, he took it as a compliment.
Princess ...you know that I'm honest right? So if you know that than you'll understand that I'm not here to make you feel happy about yourself right? You mentioned that your father said “People who agree with you be nice to them and people who disagree with you be nicer to them.” Don't get me wrong, your father is right ...it's always good to be nice, you won't get no where by being nasty to people all the time. But what I want you to understand is that you should also be careful when people are being nice & agreeing with you, specially when it's face to face. When someone agreed with you some time it's not because you right but because that person has alternative motive to get something from you. Whatever it is they want you may not know until it's too late.
I don't think we can “disagree agreeably” for it would be a contradiction but we can definitely agree to be disagreeable. What is more important than anything else is not that we should be nice to people when they disagree with us but rather be nicer when people provide us with constructive criticism. When that happen we learn something we didn't have to pay for, and what we learn is part of our free on line education. This is why I said in my profile what's encouraging me to learn is knowing that I know enough to know that I don't know. The moment you think that you know it all, you'll stop learning. But when you think you have learn enough, you discover so much that you don't know you become humble and eager to learn. Which then cause me to come up with this thought ...Knowledge is limitless the only thing that is limited in knowledge is your inability to access it.
Problem solving 101
Symptoms of problem=wars,bickering, personal attacks, emotional wounds,hate, backbiting over religion or politics
Problem=bigotry or I am right you are wrong at all costs: it's a human thing
I know I left some things out of it, but great hub, thanx CW
Hi CW-girl :)
I voted yes, but it needs some explanation. Yes does not relate to everybody, and true for most of the people. For example you definitely do not fit under this yes, cause I can't imagine a nicer person either on or off line :)
Sufi- I always find your approach very refreshing. That's why even the other day I came over to the forum to enjoy in your backyard in Greece with Indian Tea or maybe coffee which you seem to prefer. Yes that is true we can't see our facial and other non verbal signals online (well I guess in future versions of Hub pages we will have some sort of webcam features)...hehe.
That's a nice word "keyboard warriors" and I never thought in those terms. Yes sometimes we can literally be carried away by the phrase ("a pen is mightier than the sword") as far as hurting others with our words is concerned. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Violet- I totally agree with you that a few words of ours isn't going to change the beliefs/attitudes of a person rather it can make the other person even more defensive in their existing "positions". Yes you maybe right people may have less inhibitions when they are online and open up more but is it necessarily good always to interact without any inhibitions. But I am with you that we have to use the online experience to our advantage when we can learn from so many perspectives from across the world from Philippines in East to Greece in West we have a range of perspective over here just even in this comments to learn from. Don't worry about long comments as long as you know that we all long to hear from you as in our hearts you belong (playing with words too)...hehe
Trish- My father once told me that the things which come easy may not always be good for us and the things which are good for us may not always be easy for us. It is very easy not to be nice but more difficult to be nice as far as possible. The things which seem simple may sometimes be the most difficult thing to practice and aren't easy by any means. It will take me a life time of preparation to be good at it. But then as Mahatma Gandhi says "Patience and Tolerance is not for the weak". Just pray that I am strong enough to personally achieve some of these higher goals in life.
Venugopal- There are good people in every religion (or without any religion also) and also in every part of the world. I just feel we should be open to see the good in others and we may not always have the best of everything in ourselves. It is not necessary for us to be defensive about our background all the time and we can try as far as possible not to be too much personally biased for or against any position as that affects even the credibility of our statements. Anyway it is nice to see that you have taken time to visit this hub as I usually find you in forums. Thanks for stopping by.
Agvulpes- Thanks a lot for showering those lofty compliments on me. Maybe since I have had to deal from childhood lots of Dad's transfers and adjusting to new places/friends all the time. Hence to a certain extent my military kid upbringing maybe responsible for it. But I still feel I may not always be as good or nice to others as I would have wished to be. I totally second that and when people who are against "Christians" then I tell them that there are wonderful things for all of us to learn from Bible (along with other great Texts) only if we are willing to be open to learn from it. I thought I made my position on that issue clear but I have to check sandra's current position yet..hehe
GoldenToad- Well that is a positive thing if you were challenging in solving the assignments but not so positive if you made your teachers pull their hair..hehe. But anyway kids are kids and they need to be dealt with kid glows as childhood never comes back and every kid has a right to have a wonderful memory of their childhood. I sure would like to hear more of those 'challenging" episodes to comment further...LOL
Coolbreezing- Do you think girls can't figure that out when guys who are nice and those who are just pretending to be "nice" with an ulterior motive. In face to face it is far more easier to figure it out as a person's sincerity can be read from so many non verbal signals which I won't go into detail here. Yes I totally agree with you that constructive criticism does offer us a free online education of seeing things or learning things which we never envisioned before. Also love this quote of yours "knowing that I know enough to know that I don't know" now all I would say is that to know that you don't know is the first sign of knowledge. I hope you include me also in your quest for knowledge.
CCR- I guess that "I am right and you are not" approach could be the root cause for so many different issues (or problems if you would like to label them as such) in this world. There is a transactional analysis book by Thomas Harris which discusses that the approach of "I am Ok, you are OK" isn't a easy thing to achieve. Anyway I am not an expert in those things hence will not venture into that too much here. Thanks for giving us your words of wisdom treat (and showing us that you are not just good dogie treats)..hehe
Misha- Well first of all I hope you had a great day yesterday. Oh thank you so much and glad you find me as a "nice" person and hopefully I become even "nicer" as I continue to learn as I go along in life(although I would have to share these comments with my brother who feels otherwise about me)..hehe
just so you stand corrected i am not quoting anyone. this is my own statement, it doesn't belong to anyone else but me and so is many other statements that I'm made at hubpages. First of all you did not quote me, you must have quoted someone else. this is what i said "What's encouraging me to learn is knowing that I know enough to know that I don't know" which is totally different than what you quoted. And yes everyone is subject to be con specially when you're being place on a pedestal. I guest we didn't learn our lesson from Mad-off
Coolbreezing- When I said your "quote" I meant your statement not a quote from some famous author. Yes I was agreeing with you and adding my inputs that when we seek to pursue on the path of knowledge such an attitude certainly helps a lot. Oh those kind of people are experts in coning people and far more difficult to figure out ordinarily. We will always have those kind of persons but then again when sometimes our own greed also makes us blind to see reason in "wild" opportunities then who is to blame? Thanks for stopping by again.
Lovely hub that shows a wisdom way beyond your years CW. You have a very old and highly advanced Soul I suspect.
Cindy- I have been called childish/childlike by my parents/brother and some highly flattering compliments by others. So I guess I am both at the same time or neither or maybe alternate between the two ends...hehe I wish that was true about me having an advanced soul since even I believe in reincarnation but still not sure how close to the final destination I am and how many more life times this soul has to take to reach that destination. Btw this year I am planning to write on whatever I feel like and so far the reception has been very positive. Thanks for stopping by and I am glad that well before my expected deadline of tomorrow 5 pm this unfortunate copying issue has been taken care off. But it is a form of compliment (although not always desirable) as they say "Imitation is the best form of flattery"..hehe
Well my instincts feel like you are an advanced soul and I have been told a number of times I am psychic by people who should know. This doesn't mean your journey is over, just that you are a good way through it :)
I too am glad the copying issue is sorted and the problem hubber and the copied hubs both removed from Hubpages.
Very Good Hub,
I would describe my online attitudes and behaviors very similar to my real life persona. Except I use spell check and grammar check online so I can fake being a little smarter than I really am face to face.
To be nice to those who agree with you and nicer to those who disagree is a great by line to Keep your friends close and your Enemies closer. Especially when you are involved in a highly political Agency such as the Navy. As a retired Navy man I can tell you that, the little phrase your father told you, will take you farther in an organization than any other piece of advice. As you move up in these lion cages ulterior motives aren't even the half of it, and at these levels the liars have long since learned to convince themselves first so as not to give any tells when they make their pitch and drive the stake through your back. The best politicians can even get you to thank them when they are done.
TMG
Cindy- I know you have the ability and also know that you possess some spells too (maybe one of these days I might take up on the love spells)..hehe
WOW!! That is comforting to know that the destination maybe in sight. Let us see we all don't know until there is nothing else to know by then again the cycle starts. Meanwhile I am enjoying this journey with so many friends and hub sisters.
At worst it must have upset you a little but at best it got you more traffic to the particular hub. My father used to say an ordinary person looks at difficulty in every opportunity and wise person looks at opportunity in every difficulty...LOL
TMG- You always have a unique perspective and that is always refreshing to hear. If only I could similarly have a device to modulate my Indian accent offline..hehe
Yes in Military organizations which is pyramidal in structure one has to be very careful and keep there tempers/emotions under check all the time. I guess it does make a person tougher or rather thick skinned as they say then ordinary things which upset people seem trivial when you see your colleagues dying. He also says that during war times there is such a sense of united collective vision in armed forces which he misses in his civilian job now. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
CW great hub! It is somewhat aligned with my hub on contrary behaviour. As your hub too is about behaviour of people. "A soft answer turneth away wrath" and "if you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen are both" ways in which people behave on line. I believe in courtesy and always try to entertain a different points of view even when I don't neccessarily agree. But to disagree politely is not weaker. Your father has given you infinitely wise advice and is nice to know that you still honour your father's wisdom.
You too have wisdom beyond your years and tenacity too, particularly how you handled that issue in the workplace.
An open mind is always the solution. :-)
Sixtyorso- Thanks for all the praise. Yes I do admire my father(how can a child not admire there parents) who it seems never let me walk and carried me til I was about 4 years (which my younger brother cribs that he didn't get the same treatment)..hehe. He is always the most caring person in my life. Today whatever I am is due to his support and encouragement. Well coming to that particular incident at the work place. I actually did speak to my dad that night and he told me nothing ever comes going against any system(team). We all have to live and work with the system to the best of our ability. That's when I started thinking and I remembered based on my past experience in School that I could try to rethink from different perspectives. Til date he is one of the best colleagues at work. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
NeedfulThings- That is true an open mind always helps us to analyze from different angles. An open mind helps us to grow constantly which is the essence of living to be learning all the time. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Great hub CW. As you saw with the recent elections, religion can divide those of the same politics and politics can divide those of the same religion unless people make a conscious decision to be civil and understanding of a contrary point of view.
Pemanzee- That is the whole point. I don't know why people have to take things so personally when it comes to these subjects. If all my friends thought exactly like me than it would really be a very boring world for me. I do like to discuss and exchange views which helps to see things from various perspectives. I hope people treat each other nicely both online and especially offline even if they don't see the other person face to face. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. It is always a pleasure to read your thoughts.
These two subject attract attention probable because most people are sensitive towards their own religion and are eager to know about other religions. Politics is not my share of cake.
Guidebaba- Yes people become personal and defensive while discussing these subjects. I hope people do spend time to know about other religions/beliefs. I know what is your share(It starts with R and ends with A)..hehe
R .... A...... Please explain. Please...
I know that I am grossly outnumbered about how I think of things like this. But, for me, I can't seperate the two things: Religion (my faith in God) and politics. I guess that's why I can't seperation between my beliefs and anything. To me, I used to be able to think of them as 2 things, but after I had my 'accident', I rethought my whole life and belief system and why I feel the way I do about it. And, for me, from that review and rethinking of things, it made most everything I do connect with my belief system.
Also something I have noticed is that sometimes the words we type doesn't come across as we mean them. Kinda like what Sufi said. Without body language, it's hard to tell exactly where someone is coming from at times.
GuideBaba- Like your earlier mention of cake this one is a Bengali sweet starts with R and ends with A (hope now you get it)...LOL
I love RasgullA and you too. hehe !@#$%^&*
WellnI finally got the time to stop in here. I feel that I am one of those you think are argumentative. My position is to spread knowledge and I try my best to do just htat. That is what I was called to do. Now I know and have already been told that this will be dificult but to press on. I am just planting "sseds". Some seeds will not germinate for a time period and some might germinate right then--just like all the plants on this earth, they germinate at different rates and times.
Good hub as always. I fee, though, that you rae just begining on your journey as time and experiences are what shapes a person and you are yet young. I do hope that all your eperiences are positive and good ones.
ASU- Not only you many of us including myself become what we become because of your background and experiences in life. I know about your personal crisis and how prayers/faith has saved you. I hope your health is improving and also did you check up on the natural herbs like Ginger root.
Yes I agree with sufi that sometimes when we are having the impersonal presence we can't figure out the exact motives of the other person. In this regard it becomes all the more important to have a rapport as sometimes when we like a person even if they say some unflattering things we don't misunderstand. But when there is no rapport then even innocent words may seem to us/others as hurting. Things often change based on what we think of the other person. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
I talked to my doctor about it and she's checking it out about me taking it with my meds (Coumdain). She will be able to tell me more when I go back in Feb. Thanks so much for you concern. I appreciate it. Because you have seemed genuinely concerned about me is why I felt safe in posting my feelings on your hub. Thanks!
GuideBaba- Cool!! You got it. But now you have to explain what this means "!@#$%^&*"
LG- I feel you are passionate in a good way. Each person has a different purpose in life and yours maybe to spread the knowledge that you possess. Yes you are right I have always had mostly positive experiences in life and have been blessed by elders like you all the time. Hope to continue receiving knowledge and blessings from you. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
ASU, I also posted something to you about taking Iron and such on her hub. Did you get that one--and believe it or not I am concerned with your health too. Ferrous Gluconate is what they gave me because it didn't go through my body and was gentler on my DVT while I was also on Coumadin. Ask you DR about that.
ASU- I always feel a person who prays does have a positive energy within them and it is always nice to interact with positive people. I always look forward to interacting with you. Please do update me about your progress. My prayers and best wishes are always with you and your family. Thanks again for stopping by.
LG- Thanks a lot for showing so much concern for a fellow sister who is going through some tough health crisis. We all can join together to pray for a speedy recovery for ASU.
Country women,
The last time I tried to win an arguement I lost... and that was to my seven year old son.
Therefore, I do not believe I am equiped to argue about very much on hubpages:) I do, however, read quite a few of the religous/political hubs and find most of them to be very heavy handed and self congratulatory. Most readers, I believe, don't have the patience for this type of writing. I love authors who can entertain me and make a point at the same. It's much more palitable.
Thanks for the hub,
sschilke
Sschilke- As they say "A child is the father of man" and since he is your child he has to be even more witty then you. He must be quite a prodigy(or sometimes we deliberately lose an argument to win their love)...hehe. Well I do like yours, Rockinjoe, BT Evil, Shadesbreath, Spryte, Misty and many other hubers who are good at writing entertaining stuff. You like your information capsule sugar coated with fun. It is indeed a very difficult art. One of my friends in India has a brother who works as a cartoonist. I always felt his job is so difficult when he has to depict current events with a funny twist every day. It is a rare art for someone to be able to do that. But your hubs are entertaining and I always enjoy them. It is far more difficult to make someone happy than to make someone sad. Keep up the good work and thanks for stopping by.
OK princess ..I understand where you're coming from now. I got confuse because you used the word quote to refer to my own statement. When you said that I like your quote, to most people it means that I quoted someone else. Since it is my own, most people would say ...I like your statement not I like your quote. If a statement is yours it's not a quote it's your statement. But nonetheless, my way of expression is relative to my culture, the same way I speak Creole is the same way I speak English. It is the most direct translation of creole. I said that because I don't want you to confuse the way I express myself for woodenness, I am far from that. If they is a little aggression with the way I speak, it is only because of my culture, it has nothing to do with being wood. I know you didn't say that I was wood, I mentioned it so that members of hubpages get to know me a little better. I mean well and this is why I'm here to share ideas and thoughts. I am very honest and direct, I don't like being around the bush. What you see here on hubpage is exactly what you get from me in person. If I am wrong, I prefer that someone tell me that I wrong. If you can prove me wrong, I'll have the most respect for you but don't expect us not to clash into a debate. For the most part I'm a very thoughtful person, I do not say anything without foreseeing it's effect. I know what to say to the public, certain knowledge I would never discuss publicly. If you place your ego first before your argument most people would have a problem with you. Projecting the inability to accept constructive criticism is the true weakness. I preferred to be call out when I'm wrong than to be sweetheart by someone who's trying his best not to upset me. I guest when you're a regular commentator at www.realclearpolitics.com you develop a sense of tolerance from people being straight forward with you. Anyhow, my comment to you meant well, if you take it personal than it's on you.
CW: I admire your willingness to explore such murky waters and your sincere desire to learn and understand, all the while being very kind and accepting of others' viewpoints. I think many people could learn and benefit from your example.
CoolBreezing- You never say anything to upset me. In fact your words seem like a breath of fresh or rather in a summer evening a wave of "Cool Breeze". I guess not many people like being around the bush (as in GWB) or you meant beating around the bush...hehe.
That is so nice to hear I personally feel people who are strong are never afraid to accept when they are wrong. It takes lots of guts to accept ones mistakes. I know you meant well. You never mean to be mean to me (now you know I like to play with words and enjoy interacting with you). Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Melissa- Those are very nice words. I feel you have a very open mind and also who is willing to look at other perspectives. In today's world more than ever we need people to be able to look at others view/beliefs to coexist peacefully. Today what is happening in Gaza is really painful and I just don't know what to think of it anymore. I had some views which I had to revisit and again forming new views based on continuous information that I am receiving. Ok I think I will stop here this discussion. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Hi Country Women one more strong topic for discussion. Good Keep It Up. You are really doing great thing. Anyways thanks for sharing... I Personally belive in this
"How can you love God whom you do not see, if you do not love your neighbour whom you see, whom you touch, with whom you live"
Sandra- Thanks for the encouragement. I hope you did participate in the poll too. That is one of my favorite quotes from Mother Teresa. She is one of the persons I admire a lot. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Tonight for example a man started making an angry comment on my Jehovah's Witness hub. All my hub says is people should reconsider whether this is the religion for them. His comment was very confrontational, so I deleted it. I just feel I do not have time for that right now.
SweetiePie- Yes when the tone of the comment is confrontational then it may be better to delete it rather than further engaging in discussion with such a person. Some people may deliberately seek to have arguments which lead neither of us anywhere. I hope you are not upset about it. I also engage in discussing about Religion or Politics where the other person has a honest/sincere desire to do so but when its a direct personal attack then it is best to ignore such statements. We have far too much going on already without having to bother about explaining everything to everybody. Hope you are feeling alright and have a good day.
Hmmm! Thoughtful hub! Here in India, people are very passionate about both the aspects. And they also discuss it openly a lot.
The quote from Mother Teresa is an absolute gem. And very true. Yet, somehow, it seems that it is easier to believe in God, without really giving any thought for our neighbour. Why, we even kill him in the name of God, don't we?
Sid- Your name reminds me of the character Sid in "Dil Chahta Hai"...hehe. Well you forgot to mention the most important subject rather the "religion" in India which almost everybody seems to have an opinion about- "Cricket". Even my own younger brother once when I mentioned Shahid Afridi is cute he got so upset with me...LOL
I am glad you like that Quote from Mother Teresa. I do hope we have peace in the world and people will look beyond religion/nationality. We all are after all humans and "live & let live" is the mantra for a peaceful coexistence. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
Yeah, DCH is a cool movie!
BTW, cricket is also a religion in India! Only, it is followed with a greater fervour!
Sid- It is so true. I once saw a poster in the cricket ground which said "Cricket is our religion and Sachin is our God"...LOL
When we change the way we look at things then the things we look at change. Therefore its not always about winning an argument (again subjective who decides who finally won) rather than winning a friend?
Well said. Its true, because I have experienced this since I registered. Unfortunately some people’s response was so impolite and harsh.
When I come across how educated and well brought-up people discuss matters whether they agree or not, but the element of respect is always their priority. I wish (1st myself) people could have that type of digestion to be polite while discussing matter even we don’t agree. At the end of the day it’s just a discussion and not forcing to adopt others religion or thoughts/decisions. But to understand how others thinks about it.
My other mistake was quoting from other web sites thinking that I am creating my favorite collection of authors in my Hub like (bookface). Although I have mentioned their references :-(
BTW, there is an option to share-link on the page is that mean I can share your articles at my eBlog? I am new and not sure what should I do and what shouldn’t. Have little time to read/Investigate . :-)
Hope my English is not that bad J Have a nice day.:-)
Abeerer- Your English is good and btw which part of "earth" are you from? Since you have asked this in a one to one discussion I will have to talk to you personally about this. When someone starts a thread like "One and Only True Religion" and you start contributing to agree with that view then you are putting yourself in a situation where others who don't subscribe to that belief will talk back. If you told me to accept Islam or You were told to accept Christianity overnight can you or me change? It takes a long time for a person to develop their views/beliefs. When we sincerely ask for questions like this "What is your opinion about Islam" and so on then people will give different replies. We have to understand that as many people are there so many views would be there. My Grandfather was a Judge in the High Court and he studied a lot of religious texts from Quran to Bible hence he always used to say that we need to look at an issue from other persons views. If we don't know anything then we should not try to fill the gaps in our understanding with our opinions.
As also mentioned in Quran: O humankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know and deal with each other in kindness (not that you may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God (is he who is) the most righteous of you, and God is Knower, Aware.] (Al-Hujurat 49:13)
Another thing whenever some religious speakers want to score over other religions they will pick the weakest link or verses from the others text to show them as bad and themselves as good. That is so wrong. We don't have to show others beliefs as wrong based on a few twisted verses/logic to make our beliefs as right. Only a true practitioner of those faiths knows what that means based on their particular experiences but for most of others it is just to show others beliefs/texts in a poor light and themselves(or their views) as better than them.
Another thing is when a person hardly knows the other person then there is no rapport for the other person to understand what you mean. Even when we have a rapport with our parents from childhood sometimes what they say hurts us then what to speak of public forums like these where we all are relative strangers.
And try to write original articles as people like to read about your background & life experiences. We want to interact with a thinking feeling human being not a robot who mechanically duplicates others works. I know I am being harsh but that is how most of the people feel when it is so simple to write a few sentences then why not at least try. The other person is not you and you are not the other person. Each person has a different way of looking at the same things so tell us your views/beliefs based on your experiences. Yes you can get inspired by others but you still have to do your part. There is no easy way for others to respect you.
Yes you can share any article when you click on the green button it gives you the URL link which you can submit to other sites.
Practice your faith as sincerely as you can in the privacy of your house. But when you come into the public arena then be more cautious and if you want to ask questions be sincere/humble as proud proclamations(like in that forum) always lead to a negative feedback. Hope I have addressed some of the issues that you have raised. Have a good day. Khuda Hafiz.
CW, I've got to respect you for the approach you took and the humility you admit to learning (not that I didn't have respect before... :))
In my husband's family we have liberals, conservatives, Christiantians, athiests, and those who have no idea what they are. Family gatherings can get so heated that I just don't go to most events. Why can't we disagree pleasantly? I can still believe that I'm right but respect your approach and get a better understanding of where you come from.
We have a relative who does not believe in any god. We are Christian and the talk usually gets around to our faith and why we believe it. When he wants to change the topic, he says so and we do. We don't push it and we don't get hostile. He says that we are the only ones he will have these discussions with because we don't treat him like an idiot or such.
Great hub as usual!!!!
Rgraf- Yes that is so true when we only see things from our perspective than it neither helps ourselves to grow nor helps the other person to understand us. Once in our University library an old lady was finding it difficult to carry the books a young man volunteered to help her to carry it to her car. When he returned I went up to him and told him that it was a really nice gesture on his part. He was an undergrad student and during conversation I came to know he was an atheist but that didn't change my view of him even one bit. If it wasn't for his kind gesture I would have never even initiated the conversation with a "stranger". Hence it is more of our personal example that should draw people to our views rather than making some statements which may have very little impact on the other person. I personally believe we all are in quest to become better people who are kind, loving and open minded. If a certain religious text helps us than that is very good for that person and if a persons moral code guides a particular individual than that works for that individual too. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
LOL - I peronally love to engage in conversation that stretches me out of my comfort zone.... others take offence to that! There in lies the difference. Stirring the pot so to speak with someone who is analytical will be a lively and fun conversation... stir the pot with someone who is more emotional and all **ll brakes loose.
There is no right or wrong - thinking makes it so!
Neil- I am with you when we want to discuss to expand our knowledge but when it becomes personal then it does get nasty sometimes. You are right it depends a lot on the temperament of the individual too. Now where have I heard that before? Shakespeare did have a lot to contribute to our thinking...LOL
Your Grandfather was very wise person to state that. I am from Bahrain, I also take your advice very serious, and therefore I will try to write something my own. But I love reading more than writing. Let’s see, how it comes out since I think my language is barrier as well.
Abeerer- Thanks for the positive opinion about my grandfather and yes he was indeed very wise. I have already replied in detail in your hub. Actually reading is very good and when you finish reading just comment about it. We become better writers when we are better readers. Your language is good and don't put any mental blocks or limitations yourself. Hope to see you reading and writing more. Have a great day.
CW- just wanted to reply with a thank you for checking out my hub, I wanted to comment on the religious theme of it, as I would play "bad guy", and take religion out of the equation when confronting our problems. I went on to say all of us get a little hard headed and stubborn about, but if we put that aside, let's work on the real problems and leave religion to one's own struggle of the heart.
GoldenToad- Really you don't have to clarify. I usually read a second time if something doesn't make sense the first time. I do find that overall you don't have the intention of hurting but it is your internal soul search that you are outpouring. I also have similar questions but I don't verbalize them (or maybe not bold enough like you to receive the unflattering feedback from some folks)...LOL
thanks CW- I knew you got me, but I didn't want to comment on my hub as I see people are going to "select" what they see/read. I didn't want to influence that process. You had the right interpretation all along.
GoldenToad- Don't worry about my opinion. And even earlier when I mentioned in the "Plight .." hub I was just trying to give the perspective what if I was that person and read that hub how I would feel. I read the hub first from the authors point of view and sometimes according to the contents of the hub I also try to see how others may perceive it. I was just putting myself in those people's shoes and felt maybe it could have been more sensitive but still I hold no grudge against you for that hub. It is your right to express and also you do a good job of making people think. You have a great skill and I am inspired to be as good a writer as you are. May there be more of your kind.
We should all try to follow your fathers advice. It would make a big difference in the world.
HappyWorld- Thanks for appreciating my father's advice. I am glad that you could read this hub and comment.
Online communication is difficult because you cannot pass along ton and emotion except maybe with icons, smiley faces, etc.
Bgamall- Very good observation. I guess at least we have those icons to thank for to express our emotions. But still having a consideration for the others while online seems to be a safe bet. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
I think that personally I find it easier to communicate online than face to face. I don't get mean or nasty because that is not the type of person I am - but it is true that people sometimes will get more heated online than in person. I have seen comments on articles that I would never hear from someone. I think that most of the time people find it easier to say what they truly feel and think if no one can see who is doing the talking.
Lol, sorry, I meant tone, not ton. :)
Tonks21- Yes from your point of view when nobody is judging you by your verbal/non verbal signals then it feels better to be able to say those things freely. It works both ways when someone is online or anonymous then they may also get away by not being nice. Well I do enjoy webcam chatting with close family members but it is true when we aren't bothered by how we are dressed or look at that time or being judged then it can be a liberating feeling. Thanks for stopping by.
Bgamall- Oh I got it what you meant. Thanks anyway for the clarification. Have a good day. Thanks for stopping by again.
Religion & Politics are the two things that have the greatest impact on our day to day lives. When I can find people who are willing to debate it with civitlity, what ensues is some of the most enlightening and enjoyable conversations I have ever had. Great article!
Specificity- Yes as long as we have a civil discussion it can benefit everybody to see other view points but sometimes when some people get passionate then the mood may not conducive for healthy discussion anymore. Thanks again for appreciating this article and commenting here.
Yes CW,
This hub is very stimulating as we can see from all the comments. Religion and spirituality are very personal in my opinion. So much so that I do not feel the desire to share my own more than to offer my blessings, prayers,and positive thoughts. I do believe that some of the most inspiring conversations can be based on these themes but it usually has to be in conversation with like minded people. On the other hand what is the point in trying to persuade another to take your personal stand on either issue. Personal beliefs are so varied as you have noted to the point of being as unique as one's own fingerprint. Sharing positive energy is so crucial to the growth of mankind and I can always seem to find that common bond with any belief system. Thanks for this thought provoking write. Great job.
I think people definitely say things online that they wouldn't have the gumption to say to a person's face. While I generally stay out of the Religious and Political "discussions", today was an exception. I am asking myself, "why did you get involved today." Well, for one thing, rightly or wrongly, I thought I was coming to someone's defense who had done nothing except feel happy. I will never apologise for coming to someone's defense when they are the innocent party.
But why did I stay with it. Well, the guy made me angry, for one, and I took it personally. Should have let it go right then, especially since he went away a didn't come back. But I followed him, looking for an argument, recognising that this sort of fruitless argument is a waste of my valuable time, which has been precious to me of late. That is the thing about these "religiopolitical" arguments: You will never change anyones' mind or alter their perspective or get them to see things one little bit differently. They aren't interested in changing...only in spouting their rhetoric and bonding with those who feel the same as they do. And that is why it is--and always will be--a waste of time. And a discussion where both sides merely shout their diatribes at each other isn't a conversation at all.
That being said, I took the day off to goof around for the first time in weeks, and I enjoyed it. I am still enjoying it, so I guess I am saying if you get a kick out of merely shouting your opinions at everybody, then go ahead. It's no "skin off my nose." But never think you will have a positive effect on the "rhetericticians." You'll just wind up frustrated and angry. So that's fine, when they keep it in their room, but when it spills out and involves someone involuntarily, then that is wrong, because that is an imposition on somebody else's peace. So keep it in your room. If I want to join in I will. Don't come into my room unless I invite you.
Anyway, you did a great job with the hub. Look! You made me write a bunch of stuff that makes no sense to anyone but me! It must be good!
Peace!
Alexis- "to offer my blessings, prayers,and positive thoughts" That is actually a good way to deal about religious and political issues. Even today we have seen some passion in certain hubs. You are so right about the personal beliefs/views being as unique as "fingerprints". Thanks for sharing your positive energy and we all could do more of it in present times. Thanks a lot for your wise insight and comments.
Christoph- I can relate to everything that you have mentioned. I also admire you for not taking a stand about religious or political issues but at the same time coming to defense of someone whom you care about. You know which "battles" to pick up and which ones to pass on. It is such discernment which I really admire. You are absolutely right that nobody changes there opinions due to a few statements that we exchange but when somebody does offend someone whom we care then taking it lying down isn't right too. You have earned the respect of so many of us due to the principled stand that you take most of the times. I can totally relate to most the things that you have mentioned. I hope you enjoyed your day off and also hopefully few unfortunate exchanges doesn't hurt you in anyway. I guess those who need to get the message have got it and hopefully may not resort to similar behavior in the future. Even I usually prefer not to engage in pointless conversations but sometimes it becomes imperative for us to be able to state our position. I hope you had a great day and wishing you a great week ahead.
i think every people must respect each other
CW, I have just been reading your thought-provoking hub and personally I think politics and religion go hand in hand as they are both used by world leaders and those behind them who really pull the strings to control societies and influence thought patterns! That this causes division in people's attitudes and actions is part of the plan - divide and rule. United people are much harder to dominate or control.
As to your question about whether people are less polite online or not I have voted saying that they are more likely to be that way. People can hide behind a PC and say things they would be scared to say face to face.
SweetiePie says:
10 months ago
I have long believed people come online to say things they would never say online. It is easier for someone to insult someone online than in person. You are right, we need to try and be nice to everyon in our communications, and you are a paragon of this example.