Why Pornography is Bad for Men
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Pornography is bad for men because it causes men to have unrealistic views of a woman's body, to be unsatisfied with real women and to separate sex from intimacy which results in a life of loneliness, separation and lack of intimacy.Magazines use the most beautiful women to sell their wares and even those women are touched up and airbrushed. Pornography teaches men to look to the physical side of a woman rather than encouraging him to love her for her soul and mind first. The physical will change but the soul and mind usually stays the same.
The effect of pornography on men is dissatisfaction with normal women. Normal women can't live up to unrealistic expectations, nor should they. But when faced with unrealistic expectations women internalize these expectations causing them to feel inadequate, the result is that they do not want to be intimate (further exasperating men) because they don't feel beautiful when compared to the perfect images displayed in magazines and on computers. Dissatisfaction always occurs when expectations are unrealistically high. Naomi Wolf wrote about this in The Porn Myth, you can read about it here:
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/
I read somewhere that the Danes are the happiest people on the face of the earth and do you want to know why they are the happiest people on the face of the earth? It's because they have low expectations from life. When you have low or even normal expectations you have no where to go but up, but when you have unrealistically high expectations you are forced into disappointment, you have no where to go but down.
Moreover, pornography teaches men to separate sex from intimacy and love. It divorces the sex act from relationship which makes having a relationship difficult. In addition, it discourages the integration of love and intimacy which leads to a life of loneliness, separation and selfishness. I had a friend who had an addiction to pornography, he lived a life of loneliness because he could not force himself to be attracted to real women. He would like to have a normal, satisfying relationship but he can't, the only thing that attracts him are images of unrealistic celluloid women, women who don't exist and women that are objects. His life is filled with a secret desperation that he no longer controls.
Pornography is like a drug addiction, the more you feed it the more it wants and the less control you have over it. The book of Proverbs admonishes: Drink water from your own well – share your love only with your wife. Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone? You should reserve it for yourselves. Don't share it with strangers. Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. She is a loving doe, a graceful deer. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. Why be captivated, my son, with an immoral woman, or embrace the breasts of an adulterous woman? For the LORD sees clearly what a man does, examining every path he takes. An evil man is held captive by his own sins; they are ropes that catch and hold him. He will die for lack of self-control; he will be lost because of his incredible folly
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Comments
Good for you. I think this problem is epidemic in the world today and it's ruining people's relationships and families...sad really.
regarding the effects of porn on males' (and females') ideals of physical beauty: there IS porn with "average" women, even amateur porn. Why don't people seek that out? I DO consume porn - sometimes with my girlfriend - and the people in the porn I watch look like you and me, imperfect, real and beautiful. I have dated women of all shapes and women considered both conventionally beautiful and, frankly, unattractive.
Regarding the Danes (from the BBC article on that study):
"Our research indicates prosperity is linked with happiness. It does contribute, but it is not the most important factor.
"Personal freedom is even more important, and it's freedom in all kinds of ways. Political freedom, like with democracy and freedom of choice."
...
Dr Inglehart says that gender equality is also an indicator of happiness, as is sing social tolerance. He says that both of these things have risen dramatically in recent years.
<end quote>
Appreciated your article, but the last bit about God and marriage is a bit old-fashioned and clearly shows your biases.
Drink water from you own well? What if that well is DRY?
I appreciate your comments Walter and you do know we all have our bents. :)
Brie
Brie, great hub however I have to say there is also an opposing side to your hub. I do not find anything wrong with porn as long as it is in moderation, sometimes it can even enhance the sex life. Nowadays there are all types and sizes of women in porn; different fetish types as well. I also think you are correct in the need to be able to distinquish between fantasy and reality which sometimes those hard core viewers might not be able to do. Thanks for sharing.
Pornaddict: If the well is dry..dig deeper.
I think men looking at too much porn can lead to them objectifying women, rather than seeing them as people.
Far too much porn is also very exploitative, and produced by unwilling participants.
I agree completely LondonGirl!
Brie
A classic line from the movie, "Bladerunner" when Harrison Ford is giving Sean Young the 'void komp' test, asking her if her husband wanted to hang a picture of a pretty woman on their bedroom wall when they make love, would she let him. She answers, "No, I should be enough for him."
If every woman looked like Sean Young, maybe their wouldn't be a need for pornography. I have been married to my second wife for 24 years and we are...yech! dare I say it? Soulmates. I watch videos and she reads the dirtiest of romance novels (sleazy sex included). She doesn't prevent me nor I her.
I would say that pornography is usually an adolescent's first introduction to sex. I say it is the first because most parents, guardians, teachers, and persons of the cloth are reluctant to explain and when they do, their explanations are vague and misleading.
If our society could climb down off its holier than thou pedestal and be honest about the subject, maybe people wouldn't be drawn to the forbidden fruit.
What about the women who think ever man should wax his entire body including his pubes?What about the women who are obsessed with metrosexual men. So, are they watching too much porn as well. It's a two way street you know.
I agree, I just didn't write an article about them yet!
There are very few women like that, surely? I know none.
I agree LondonGirl and the few I've heard of I think they are weird.
Well read up and keep your ears openthey are all over on and offline usually ranging from 20-mid 30's especially in NY.
I would be against that as well, whether it is towards men or women I think that the exploitation should be opposed.
I think porn is bad becuase it gives women the wrong impression of how good men can perform in bed. And then its bad when your woman looks at the guys on screen then looks back at you and laughs.
goldentoad
Agreed. I think porn can defile women as well as men, equally at that. Porn was made for men originally, but women have been affected the same way. They expect men to perform like a pornstar, wax like a pornstar, have the physique of a pornstar and be hung as long and wide as a porn star. On top of that you have to have a new model german car, money in the bank(even during this recession/depression, be over 6 ft tall, own a house and a condo and take trips to Europe regularly. I think you get the picture. Women have a laundry list of requirements or prerequistes for men and porn only would only add to the list. So, let men have their porn if they need it, it's just good to have in moderation.
Ecuasion, I think you missed the point. That's like saying let men have their cancer if they want it. Just because it affects women too (although I don't think nearly as much as men in the way you described it) doesn't mean it's ok.
if we as people cant find, hold, have the finer things in life through our every day life we all need to fantasize to kill our desire for what we don't have,
Fantasizing doesn't kill your desire for what you don't have, it only fuels it.
Dr. Memory, excellent insight, I could not agree more!
Brie...well, sweetheart, I think we will just have to agree to disagree here. Your religious views (although entirely within your rights to possess) have poisoned your mind, sealing it shut from the beautiful options set before us all. Are you aware that the number of species that mate for life is minimal (nearly non-existant) when compared to the number of species that mate with multiple partners or mate solely for the purpose of repopulation? We are the highest on the foodchain, and yet people who share your views insist on repressing our very basest instincts. Alternate lifestyles exist because people have chosen to transcend your oppression.
As for those of you that say that you have not seen or heard of many females with these qualities....well...looks like you've been quite sheltered.
Your friend with the porn addiction is an extreme case and not at all the norm. I do feel for him, as addiction in any form is an ugly creature, but he is not the average man's opinion of porn.
In general, I feel that your hub is merely an opinion based on a very small amount of experience and a very closed mind. But, that's the great thing about opinions...everyone has one, and they all stink!
Charles Manson has an open mind, does that make him right?
Charles Manson had some interesting ideologies he merely executed them incorrectly. And just to be clear, Charles Manson DID NOT have an open mind, he too was convinced that his ideas were the only "right" way to live. No one has the power to say what is right and what is wrong for anyone but him or her self. As the old adage goes, "My right to swing ends where the other man's nose begins."
You just contradicted yourself.
Actually no I did not. Having an open mind means that you are open to hearing others' opinions without feeling the need to tell them how wrong they are and why. Charles Manson is interesting to me because I love abnormal psychology, which he could be the poster child for. He KILLED people for not believing as he did...that is the most closed minded thing I can think of. However, I would love to know how one goes about developing a god complex quite that strong. Hence interesting ideology, closed mind.
And while we're talking about contradictions, you quote the bible but you enjoy reading about the Illuminati? ... riiiight....well keep reading honey, the Illuminati were originally a pagan cult!
If I must spell it out for you...you contradicted yourself when you said that no one has the right to say what is right or wrong and then you quoted the adage: As the old adage goes, "My right to swing ends where the other man's nose begins." which implies making a judgement call of when something is right and when something is wrong.
I know exactly who the Illuminatti were/are. You don't have to agree with them to study them but maybe you don't understand that either.
Simply because you feel it is right to beat the living hell out of someone does not mean that that person agrees with you that it is right for you to beat the living hell out of them....by beating them you are making a judgement call for them which is out of your scope of rights. So, that wasn't a contradiction either! Wow you have succeeded in amazing me with the extent of your narrowmindedness....thats not something that happens very often. Congratulations!
And yes, you're right...there's a lot about you and your opinions that I do not understand and have no desire to even attempt to understand.
Maybe you should take a course in comprehension...I never said the things that you are attributing to me. And, while you're at it a course in logic because your argument makes no sense
Whilst porn does little for me, I have no problem with men viewing it if it works for them. I do know a number of couples who enjoy porn films and find them stimulating to their sex life, even though it doesn't work like that for me.
Porn magazines are often provided in clinics where semen samples are required, so I guess it is fairly well accepted in general.
Porn films always bored me somewhat, or even made me laugh, but everyone is different, so I prefer not to judge harshly one way or the other.
As to what one does while watching is his own business. It's what he does after watching it that matters to the people around him to some extent.
My wife now wants to be with another woman and without me involved, this is a direct result of this stuff as I thought the lesbian movies were supposed to for me to just mildly excite us, and now our marriage is on the rocks.
I do think that the fact that many of the women involved are not doing this voluntarily, that that should matter as well. The Sex traffic problem is a moral concern as well.
[Porn calms Danish seniors, staff say
Sep 5, 2001 ... The caregivers have told Danish media that pornography is healthier, cheaper and easier to use than medicine, Lars Elmsted Petersen. . .]
I'm not sure that your premise is cogent. Pornography that exploits women is wrong. But saying that pornography is bad for men is like saying that masturbation is bad for everyone. It is a generalization and an opinion.
However, choosing such a provoking title would seem to have garnered you a lot of traffic, so well done.
Well Theresa, I think that Naomi Wolf would argue the point as well so I think that I am in good company.
I am bothered that no one is talking about how women are affected too, I tried to bring this up earlier but its equally dangerous for both sexes. why would anyone need this form of entertainment, men or women!!!!!
toady
i think your problem lies not in the porn you watch with the wifey. but i bet you know where the rub lies? :D
I agree that it is very dangerous for women as well, I just don't think that women peruse porn as much as men.
I wish that were true Brie but living in LA has tainted my opinion of that. This is the home of Playboy and Hustler. They got casinos in the middle of LA, and just advertising it all over. Makes me sick.
Cris- I do not understand what you are getting at.
Well, first, I am Danish, and--I want to say that the Scandinavian countries have the highest standard of living in the world. Incidentally, that coincides with the lowest television watching rates in the world. So I think it is not that Danes have low expectations of life, but that they just may be fully ENGAGED in life.
I am of a divided mind concerning porn. I used to have no problem watching it with a boyfriend as a couple. I also feel it probably helps some lonely men/women, etc. out there. After a while it is so poorly, poorly done, however, I don't know how a relatively sophisticated person can find it sexy..... Maybe that has again to do with being fully engaged in life, too, I don't know.
Unrealistic expectations? I'm inclined to laugh at porn--lol--because I know real life, ahem, has always been better.
I can tell you I caught my wife watching porn and was quite bothered, I got rid of that channel forever. I think it was very irresponsible of her to be watching it while the kids were awake watching sponge bob squarepants in the other room.
GT--Your wife sounds kind of immature... Is she tired of 'being married' or something?
GT - can you ever get more lost? (wink)
I think she has become influenced by other sources or people and I attribute porn to some of her behaviour.
Probably she thinks its 'cool.' Cooler than what she's got already--which if she goes over to the greener grass, she might find some dandelions, too. :( Sorry.
When I get bored, traveling always helps me, lol! Porn is kinda boring. Go on a trip together and get away?
Thank you for this well written, excellent article on the devestating effects of pornography.
Lita- I'm ready to let her go, I can't have that kind of woman around my kids if she is going to start indulging in fantasies. I wish I could understand her better but the closer I get the more she seems to push away. Maybe its my fault for working so much and that has given her too much "free" time. I agree porn is boring, especially the lesbian stuff she's was watching.
GT, I feel for you, I really do. I would feel so inadequate if I were to find my partner watching porn. and I don't even have children like you do. Porn does nothing for me, but maybe to her it is a lifeline if you are always at work. Perhaps you sould try to make more time to spend with her on a one to one basis!
Thoughts and fantasies are one thing MistyHorizon2003, but I feel she is taking it a step further, a sudden change in behaviour is very alarming and I don't want the kids to get hurt but what can I do? What happens when I'm gone? Are her "friends" really just friends? She is leaving me all day tomorrow since I went to Vegas last weekend, and I feel she is up to something.
Goldentoad: Why don't you set up a hidden camera when you are gone, then you will know, then you can make decisions based upon knowing and not just wondering.
Thanks for the effort, but I think the problems are the combination of exterior influences as well as myself, in perhaps ways I fail to recognize. I want to question her friends but I don't know if that's wise of me or if I should just let it all out on the table. Like I said, I already caught her in the act and she is a different woman from when we first met and my main concern is the kids.
I think it's admirable to try and protect the kids, they are your main concern.
Besides GT adultry is adultry whether it is with a man or a woman and you are within your rights to protect your children as well as yourself.
mistyhorizon2003, and Brie, I appreciate your concerns but I don't know if I can write anymore about this as it becomes more painful and more clear what I have to do. I'm not sure Brie if I even need to set up a camera as I'm sure if i just confront her, I will probably get the answer I don't want to hear.
Brie, I just read your comments but I think the State of CA will still favor her.
GT - of course I was kidding a while back. But now, realizing the gravity of your problems... well you can always call on God for guidance or seek the help of a a marriage counsellor and the like.
GT, I don't think the state of California would, I am originally from CA and know a lot (well not a lot but a fair number) of women who lost custody because of marital infidelity. The film would help your case as well. But I would seek out a good lawyer first. Afterall, it is your kids at stake.
Thanks Cris- I thought about going to my pastor but I didn't want to seem paranoid or have him think less of her too, like I said, maybe some of its my fault but if I found the truth, I won't bother with a counselor.
Brie- I just read your comment again, but I couldn't have sole custody as I am the only one who works and I work long hours as a construction manager, like right now, I am still at work, dealing with rain damages and preparation for flooding.
G.T. You and I are friends and I'm sorry to hear about your wife's pornography problem. I don't think you should confront her yet. The camera idea by Brie is not a bad idea. Look, I'm a licensed private investigator--I don't practice anymore--but I think you should tail her when she leaves tomorrow. It's not hard to tail someone if you know a few tricks. I can explain them to you. You need to catch her in the act! Then there will be no wiggle room for her to make up excuses! Ok?
CR- I will have the kids tomorrow all day as she goes out, it is possible while she is gone to look into her computer files and yes, I actually have a camera I used for when I am gone from the kids and we have a babysitter, just in case, I can remotely link to it, if I get to that point.
It really can't hurt (the camera that is).
You don't think I should just confront her?
Is it too late to get the sitter for tomorrow? You could drop off the kids at the sitter's earlier and be back before she goes. California has strict laws about P.I.s...you have to be licensed and what not...but a husband can do it, no problems. I can tell you what to say to the police if you get in hot water, too. They'll be pretty sympathetic, but they will tell you you have to knock it off.
GT, I urge you to take as much advice as possible from Christoph. He really does know what he is talking about and can help you. I have known him for a long time now, and he reminds me of "Magnum" if you remember that series back in the 70's / 80's (I think). The ideal P.I. who can help you solve all kinds of problems. I truly hope he can help you to end any pain you are now going through. It may hurt for a while, but time heals all wounds.
No, Brie, it's not a bad idea. In fact it's a very good one. Safer that way, but it depends: She might be so familiar with the camera--I presume she knows about it with the kids and stuff--she might get wise to the situation, and that could cause her to get very secretive in the future, making it difficult to find out for sure.
CR- I may contact you on some additional info, I worry the six year old would expose what I was doing and I would want to take precautions more ahead of time.
You could consider contacting "Cheaters" as seen on TV (Zone Romantica). They won't even charge you if they use your footage in one of their episodes, plus they get it all on tape if you need it as evidence in court.
Mistyhorizon2003, that would be exploitation of the entire situation, its bad enough I am exposing myself on here like this, what if all my family saw that or my friends and if I do catch her with a woman, that would only make it that much more damaging to myself.
But you have nothing to be ashamed of, so the only person left embarassed should be her. Your family and friends will no doubt sympathise with you and feel her exposure was justly deserved!
I agree GT, I don't think that a T.V. show would help the situation in the least...I do still think that you should discuss the situation with a good lawyer though.
i don't look at it that way Mistyhorizon2003, I think it may show my failings as a married man, and I put emphasis on the man part.
Brie, I just read your comment, there is a lawyer in my church group, I might consult him Sunday, I'm worried though he might say something to her.
Fair enough GT, but I don't feel she has the right to do what she is doing to you based on your 'man' part alone.
Lawyers are bound by condifentiality rules, but I am not certain if you have to be their client first. If he is a mutual friend he may not wish to get involved, and it would possibly be best to get a brand new lawyer who has no connections to either of you.
Gt I couldn't agree more with the advice you are receiving from CR, Misty , CrisA and of course Brie., you know that kids always talk - and you never know your wife in her presumed guilt may have promised lollies or a trip to the zoo to your 6 year old if he/she keeps tabs on you - so listen to CHris and get that P.I. involved so that you get to keep your kids and the dog and the jumping rabbit etc.....go well ...cheers
Wow. This begins to sound very serious. I'm really sorry for you, GT. I don't think you should stay in that situation. I'd take your kids and move on.
Thanks MistyHorizon2003,Lita, and Ajcor- But I don't know now if I should go home right now either. I don't know if I should play it cool, like nothing or what? I'm agitated right now, real agitated.
Always play it cool, always no matter what.
Okay Brie, I'm signing off now, I'll stay cool, don't worry. thanks. maybe it's all for the best.
Have faith, be cool and leave the rest to God, Have a good night.
Brie is right. No matter what. If you lose your head, you might do something...silly or something.
As much as I hate to say it, I think I agree with you. lol. really well written hub by the way.
Thanks S.C.Vital Speed
Last night when I came home, my wife was gone and the baby sitter was playing video games with the kids. My wife didn't tell me anything about going out and we can't afford the babysitter right now, but I paid the babysitter anyways. When I tried calling my wife, there was no answer, she didn't come home until two thirty. We immediately started arguing but I let it be since she was drunk and it was raining outside, and I was actually worried if she went back out. This morning she acted like nothing and kept on text messaging someone and I grabbed for her phone and found out it was a girl named Lucy she was out with and I took the phone and ran to the restroom with it. There were all kinds of pictures from this girl and it made me sick, dirty "self" pictures and pictures of my wife at the bar. I couldn't take it and just told her to leave. She didn't care and took her keys and left. I tried calling her right now but I just feel conflicted, part of me feels like a complete idiot, a real tool, for not seeing signs earlier. And now the kids are asking for her.
I am at loss for words toady. and i don't know if it's from imagining the dire straits you're in or your honestry.
I have nowhere else to really turn Cris, I feel way too embarrassed to say anything to any of my friends or family. A lesbian, I can't believe it, after all this time. I feel like drinking right now but I got the kids and I'm worried what I'll do if she comes home.
I have never been in a situation as "different" as this. So the only thing I can say is that keep your head above water and weigh things carefully. And put the children's welfare above all else.
I will Cris, I tried getting into her computer and was shocked to see files and files of pictures both straight and lesbian pornographic photos. I am looking to find someone who can get me into her e-mail, as I think I have to build a solid case against her. But again, it gets to the point of who do i trust to keep this information to themselves, how do I not get embarrassed while exposing the truth. stupid, stupid, stupid, I can say it a million times and it still is not enough.
Have you no friends? I mean real friends who you might have turned to in troubled times such as this in the past?
I hope you won't think this intrusive of me, but I couldn't help noticing your comments, Golden T., last night about your wife. Would it be uncalled for if I said something? I know we're hijacking the hub; but I think Brie can agree that this is serious. Toad, many more women are bisexual than you might think. This might not be the end of your marriage, unless you actively turn your wife away. After a fling with Lucy, she might come home again. Many, many women have done so. No, men don't like the idea. I can only imagine how upset you are. But unless you want to end the marriage, don't push her away (if her being bi disgusts you, then you need to do what you need to do). It says NOTHING about who you are -- women are beautiful. Men like women. Does it seem so surprising that women like women, too? They're gorgeous.
I have lot of friends, a ton, but I have never been in a situation like this and they would just laugh. If they didn't laugh to my face, they would laugh behind my back, I just know they would.
Theresa-
I know women are beautiful but that should be my problem, not hers. It just goes beyond all our boundaries of marriage and maybe its just my ego being deflated, this anger that is coming from me, but what if a woman caught her husband with another man, how would she feel? More hurt, or should it matter?
Teresa's got a great point. It's just probably your disgust that makes the whole thing complicated. Put it aside and think that infidelity is infidelity regardless of the genders involved. And try to think without hate.
This is still going on? I'm so sorry. Then you maybe need to get serious about it. Maybe turnabout is fair play, GT. If you started looking at gay porn, it might teach her a lesson about what it is like for you watching her watch the lesbian stuff.
But it is the whole irony of it all that is eating me up! I was the one who first brought those videos into the bedroom, as just an experimental thing, and its gone way too far. What else did I do to trigger all this? I thought I was being normal.
Lita- I don't know if I can do that, even as revenge, I can handle the straight stuff and the lesbian stuff, but for me thats a bit much and I wouldn't want to give her anymore ideas or something she could take to court on me.
I used to think that nothing could be worse in a relationship than infidelity. Then somehow, I got to be 49 (how the hell did that happen?), and I find that the worst situation you can encounter in a relationship is a lack of trust (something quite different). Maybe you guys need to talk as calmly and patiently as you both can. And with respect and admiration for each other. That may not seem possible right now. Take a deep breath, and know that a lot of folk here have your back.
Or it could be something not as serious as you think it to be. Otherwise she might have started reacting differently everytime you...well...do it. Well?
I know. It is ironic. You shouldn't blame yourself, GT. And like I said above, I find porn kinda boring, hardly worth my time. It's just I know that sometimes tough love is the only thing that works. Kind of like an intervention.
I have to agree that I have pornography mess up a lot of people. It is better to stay away from it.
And by the way, Good luck Toady
Teresa- thanks, I think hubpages is the only place I can go with this. and I want to try have trust and I know its probably been hard for her, well not lately, I guess she prefers something else now, but I think maybe my work has gotten the way of alot things. But I thought a woman wanted a man who was dedicated to working.
And Cris- things are different if I understand what you are saying, she wants different things, but I'm not willing to do that.
Lita- I don't find porn a way of life, it was just a curiousity of sorts, a playful thing but not anymore
thanks eovery- you have always been supportive
Oh Toady -- men want to work hard to show women they are good providers. Meanwhile women are at home thinking: why doesn't he want to come home?
I have several friends how have broken marriages because he worked nights, and she didn't like to sleep alone.
You're right, Teresa. I think that's part of it. Modern women aren't so bound by the old fashioned paradigm of men as provider while she stays at home. They might appreciate a man who provides for them and the kids, but they want other things as well. They have needs, and now they aren't afraid to admit it or act upon them.
Teresa- so what's a man to do? I admit I am too tired much of the time to do commit to the bedroom. I admit this. I admit I was the one who started the pornography experiment. But it still doesn't give her the right to take it that much further does it? what did she see in all that? Like Lita said, for the most part its boring, at first its exciting but then what? This!
What's a man supposed to do? Be kind. What's anyone supposed to do in a marriage? Be kind to each other, and take care of the kids. Again, Dear Toad, don't push your wife away unless you really can't deal with this. Don't beat yourself up, either, about having introduced the porn in the first place. Be kind to yourself, as well. This sounds trite, I know: but it might be the best place to start, for now.
Teresa- I would have worked on things in way I could, if it meant having more sex, going to couseling, you name it. I thing she just went over the line now, and to think what she may be doing right now is driving me crazy, she could be doing ANYTHING, I've seen enough of the photos that have burned my mind, truly nasty pictures, and I'm going to burn her computer, I'm so mad.
You might HAVE to do an intervention, GT. I don't know what else you could do. If you burn her computer, you're more apt to drive her into the arms of a real woman, you know.
Hello GT and HP friends. I'm coming into this a day late. Following the comments down, I must admit I thought you were being your usual tongue-in-cheek GT self there for several go-rounds. So I will start with an apology for not seeing GT's plight for what it is.
Here's what I know about spouses who cheat. It's often less about sex than it is about attention. It sounds like you've been working a lot. And money has been tight. And no doubt both you and your wife are under stress -- more than usual. Your wife has been escaping into a fantasy world of porn. Not the healthiest place to retreat, but maybe she's bored and angry that you've been less available to her. Then, along comes someone who seems exciting and pays attention to her.
You can try to confront her (using "I" statments instead of "You" statements -- that is, unless you want to make her all defensive right off the bat). But don't expect her to be honest. She may not even know why she is doing this. Is it possible she's acting out to force your hand? Or to get your attention?
The bottom line for you is what are you willing to tolerate? Is infidelity a deal-breaker for you in your marriage? Are you willing to go to counseling together -- because finding your way back to each other across the chasm is not easy.
Final MM comment. Would it be less offensive to you if your wife was with another man? Attractions happen and as Theresa and others say, bisexuality is more common that many people think. If your wife is smart, she will be able to think through the ramifications of losing her marriage and starting a new life with "Lucy." Your bringing porn into the bedroom is NOT the cause of this. YOU are not the cause of this. So if you're feeling guilty, please don't. Oh. One more thing. We are here for you, GT!
Lita's right. Besides what about the environment if you burn it? Or sell it on ebay if you want it out of your sight. You need not be destructive. And first and foremost get of a hold of yourself.
You brought tear to my eyes MM. I'm shaking right now.
I once looked in my BF's journal, because I suspected he was having an affair. What I read not only confirmed that suspicion, but it also was very graphic about how he had sex with her and every word I read burned into the back of my eyeballs. But I shouldn't have read his diary. It wasn't mine to read. If you want to take your anger out on something, good. Go clean the kitchen, do a load of laundry, put all your energy into being a good dad right now. You'll be glad you did, I promise.
GT,
I think you need to do something. I know with you drinking habits, I don't want you to come home all liquored up and do something you will regret later. You need to possible separate for a while and get this under control. I don't want you in any trouble. You are a level headed man, but please do not drink much at this time.
Take care. !!!!
God, that happened to me, too, Teresa. Almost the exact same description. Infidelity is so tough emotionally. But doing anything to get your mind off it, like laundry, does help. In my situation, I was lucky that no children were involved.
Hang in there, GT.
GT, I'm truly sorry for your troubles. Right now you are in the thick of it and it's hard to see clearly. Is it possible to get a separation so that you can have a bit of space and try to think clearly?
Sorry for all the advice coming at you from all sides. Probably feels like a bunch of daggers sticking into you, eh?
Cris is right, too. Get a hold of yourself. Take a deep breath. The more you obsess about what your wife is doing and who she's with, the more power you give over to her. Keep the power with you, man! You want to be dealing with this from a position of strength, not weakness.
One thing I've found very helpful is to write it out. Not necessarily here on HP (although what the hey, if you can make some $ from your turmoil, why not). Write out fast and furious everything you're feeling. You can write it in the form of a letter to your wife. You won't show it to her, it's just to get the toxic feelings out of you.
Teresa- I've called the babysitter and she's agreed to come watch the kids
eovery- I think its too late, I cannot handle this right now, and I am going to have to get a drink, I have been on the wagon for sometime now and I'm sure it will settle my nerves. I will let the babysitter here to watch the kids and I just sent a text message to the wife- not to come home or I will call the police on her this time.
As far the infidelity thing goes, I guess if I was approached about everything before hand I wouldn't be so angry. Meaning if we could have talked about our shortcomings, rather my shortcomings, I could have understood, or be more receptive.
But the thought of what she is doing right now keeps coming back to me and I appreciate everyone's support.
No, GT, stay on the line. You can handle. The liquor will only make it worse. Common. Lets talk bud.
What's the name of you kids?
I'm just keep shaking man.
I keep saying stupid, stupid, stupid.
No, GT, stay on the line. You can handle.
Just think of you kids man. Think of them, you can make it through this for them man. Put down the bottle man.
Talk to me!
You CAN handle this, GT. If Teresa and I could get through it, then so can you. Just calm down.
GT, if you must go out and drink, please take a friend with you so you know you can get home safely and don't get into a fight or something stupid. PLEASE!
The babysitter is going to be here in a half hour or so, I think I would rather be alone when I go out. I don't want to bother my friends with my mood. Everyone is supposed to be having a good time tonight.
Maybe you should stay here with us, then, GT... Seriously. What? You're going to drive??
Good, get out. but stay away from the wife tonight, especially if you drink any, promise!
I got to go. Just stay loose tonight. You know what's best!
Not a good idea to go out.
I have to do something!! I am shaking, I want to punch the walls. I want to find out where she's at. I want to ask her why? why? Why?
Can you try doing some yoga? Or what MM says--just write it all out. Just find a way to calm yourself.
Yes, yes, of course you do. And you deserve an answer. But tracking her down in a frenzy and demanding an answer in the state you're in -- won't get you anywhere and will only give her the upper hand. Trust me, dude. I know this.
Shaking and wanting to punch the walls. Ok. That's testosterone at work. Do you by any chance belong to a 24 hour gym? If you are heading to a bar (walking or cab, please!), can you go somewhere and play darts or pool -- anything that involves physical activity, not just warming a bar stool talking to strangers.
You know we'll be here (at least some core group of us) will be here when you get back. Please be safe. Save the confrontation with wifey till you're in a calmer space. Promise? Please?
GT, you can't control your wife, you can only control yourself, that's the difference you can make for you and for your kids. What you do matters.
I read CC Riter's new hub, and it made me feel a little bit better and maybe the words are sinking in that I have a family, and I look at these kids watching wow wow wubzzy and it makes me second guess what I want to do. I think I will keep the babysitter here and go buy something to drink and try to relax with the kids and let the babysitter take care of them if I can't handle it. But if the wife comes around I am definitely calling the police.
Thanks Brie for being so supportive. I'm sorry about bothering you with all this.
It's no bother at all, we all just are trying to help from across cyber space so to speak.
Personally, I think if women feel good about themselves inside and out it won't matter to them what a man or their partner thinks. That's the most important thing, in my opinion, you can't live for anyone's approval.
I've just come to your hub Brie, and admire the sincerity of your comments.
I believe "goldentoad" is a prime example of the damage that pornography can do to a marriage. He brought filth to what was apparently a well structured family, and now he is reaping the disaster that it causes. He is obviously a weak willed, cowardly pervert who will spill his guts to anyone who listens in an effort to elicit sympathy. If his wife HAS gone over to a woman for company, it's because of her disgust of men in general, based on her limited experience of us as a species, thanks to his failures.
I know of many "men" who bury themselves in work because they're afraid to go to the marital bed. Most drink and gamble as well, as "goldentoad" has admitted to, and like him bully their partner.(He blocked one of her video channels) Fortunately I've been able to assist their wives in realising that we're not all inadequate.
To you women who've offered him sympathy I admire your charity, but don't be sucked into releasing your email details, he's most likely a web stalker as well.
Good luck
You hit on nail Firm! It's also my opinion that a guy who complains about his marriage and wife is suspect. Of course, I don't know GT's situation.
We all complain about our marriages and our spouses at some time Writer Rider, to our friends, or the bloke behind the bar. Hopefully we don't snivel and whinge to all and sundry over the net. Mind you, it could attract Viagra spam. That may solve goldentoad's problem - or some of it. He'll still be a whining, self centered little jerk.
GT obviously does not need to be smacked around (with your words). He obviously needs some help. Too many men get too absorbed in being the provider. A friend is married to a man who feels that his only job as husband and father is to go to work, and bring home a paycheck. He wonders why she is no longer excited by him. He takes his anger out on her.
You may be right Anna, I saw it differently, but my acerbity is probably only ego tripping.
Comments are not for promoting your hubs or other sites
Thanks LondonGirl, this person has been harassing me for awhile now.
I am still not quite sure what you are trying to say here. How is pornography bad for me? How do you define pornography? Your hub is not quite clear upon the matter, and appears to skirt around the issue. Are you talking about hardcore or fashion magazines, which are far more devastating to the self-esteem of the 'normal' woman, if such a thing exists.
You use the argument that men have an idealised view of women, fuelling feelings of inadequacy in women. In my experience, most cases of judgment by physical attributes comes from other women. Women judge women far more harshly than men do.
I cannot think of a single one of my friends and acquaintances who has your 'idealised' view of the perfect woman. We accept all of the lumps and bumps of our partners, because we love them for their mind - we are not exactly the 'perfect' specimens of manhood, either. We are certainly not 'dissatisfied' with normal women. To make a blanket assumption that pornography turns all men bad is a little insulting - we are all individuals.
Your other argument invokes the Danes - they are indeed a very happy and fulfilled people, but have the most liberal pornography laws in the world, so your argument is a little weak.
GT, How are you doing?
I'm okay today, it really helped that the babysitter came over, gave me some time to mellow out a bit. The wife is staying at a friends and or whatever. I left this afternoon while she came and got some stuff. the babysitter is going to help out around here while I go to work, it seems that her living arrangements aren't so great, so I told her she could stay her until something gets resolved. I wasn't going to comment here anymore, because TOF really went after me(but he is partially right and I need to hear it) and that's why I don't tell any of my friends what is happening. Its really very embarrassing.
Well, I'm glad you are ok and I fully understand and wish you well.
I think as all of it sinks in, I will feel better. It really did help to get it all out here and even with TOF saying the things he said, it made me kind of get a hold of myself. I welcome the advice and even though things are hurtful, they need to be said, we have to take everything in and digest it, even if we don't like it. In the end I will be better for it.
I'm so glad to hear that GT. I prayed for you over that last couple of hours as it seemed it was the right thing to do - and the only thing I can do to help you. I hope you completely come through this a better man.
Thanks Cris, I know I can count on your support through these times.
Oh, no, GT! Are you posting here again? Are you going to see an end to what you are going through?
Lita: I asked him how he was doing.
Sorry, Lita, I was trying not to burden anyone today, I know it was alot to take yesterday, but I thank Brie for lending me an ear.
Well, I for one feel sorry for him, but I did suggest a couple things-- An intervention 'just using' gay porn, and yoga to calm him down, so I don't have much else to say tonight. I do wish you well, GT.
Hey GT I wasn't so sure myself but I'm convinced you're genuine, and I'm confident you'll resolve it and get comfortably (and sometimes uncomfortably) to the other side.
I totally agree with you on this from past experiences with guys who have been addicted to porn,ruined our relationship.One guy could not function unless I dressed like the images he had grown up with in porn magazines.THe other treated me with no respect,behind closed doors,never once was it a love making experience,just degrading in every sense.There was much more too it,but too much to mention here.Some men especially those who have grown up with porn,and have become totally addicted to it just dont be able to get a reality on what sex really is meant to be.
Thanks for the comment blondepoet.
Brie, I spent an indecent portion of my life in sexual show biz. And not all men react to visual titillation in quite the same way. Some go through stages and others grow up and settle down. After a modest career that would still make Casanova blush, my taste in women remains partial to bright and earthy Jewish girls. Perfection takes many forms. And I always fell for souls rather than shells.
It is a matter of genetic libido, not media conditioning that compels male sex drives. There is no moral compass on primitive instinct by nature. Read Freud. Minus passion or love we are all but flowers without sunlight or water. It is the rare plant that can survive on the same elements throughout its lifespan. Not all can be happy eating the same food for life or loving only one person for all time.
I am set in my my maturity by monogamy, but don't condemn adult media that celebrates ecstasy or lovers who play the field. If someone can love more than one person and make multiple people happy, more power to them. A good lover can experience intimacy with any woman without idealizing perfection. Pics of acts that create life are a form of artistic beauty, and not a "p" word for censorship.
I think "love" and sex are two different things many times. And, I don't think you can compare devotion to one man or one woman with eating steak for a lifetime!
A lifetime of red meat is linked to cancer while a lifetime of lustful indulgence is linked to longevity. The usual suspects who condemn adult sexual freedom are often feminists or lesbians. I never understood how an attractive bright woman could be against erotic expression. If viewing of visuals that can result in creation of life are deemed immoral, is hate of public sexuality not a blight on life itself?
Those who complicate love and sex usually have conflicts or hangups about one or the other. And repression is actually more unhealthy than addiction. Love is to sex what air is to breathing. And love's idealism requires concrete manifestation. Without passion, love is but a romantisized idea. Physical touch not ideas hug or hold us at night. If X pics are so bad for us, is not love itself also to be feared?
The very word pornography is meant to depict pictures of people having sex as whores. If a food channel on cable TV shows people eating would that then make them pigs? Anti-sex value judgments as such have more to do with influence of religion than logic, reason or common sense. And more people in this world have done wrong out of tribal faith than via the gifts and blessings of alpha sexuality.
Those who condemn fans who look at adult pics may not have tolerant social skills or an unguilt-ridden sex drive to settle down and perpetuate the species themselves. This is why caucasians across the globe are being outpopulated and the western world is in crisis. Our life force is celebrated though sexual art. And if we're to be ashamed of lust, we might as well all become monks and be extinct.
I think you should take a look at the fruit of pornography as depicted in some of the previously posted comments. But, I doubt you will consider them as you seem to have your mind made up.
I'l admit sex media has its negative repercussions. But it's mainly among certain dying human species neurotically barren or obsessed over erotica who have less replacement offspring because of it. Still, the predisposition for hypersexuality lies in the libido of the voyeur and not the dirty pic or movie he's looking at.
If the catharsis of porn did not exist, society's sexual havenots would find other worse outlets and cave man days would make an unwelcome comeback. But when pretty women take a stance against sexuality is it like a sports car afraid of speed. For sake of procreation, lust = life, not debate for repressed bluenoses.
Oh yeah, like sexual crimes are down now because of porn, the statistics don't show this. If anything pornography contributes to sexual crimes. Look up the Ted Bundy interview with Dr. James Dobson you might just learn something.
This is fun. I like to debate intolerance. You should charge admission for this site. Adult cinema was pioneered by certain ethnic and religious groups forced into marginalized professions due to mainstream discrimination. Reason why porn's equated with violence is that a sick society judges open sexuality as evil.
It's a chicken and egg issue really. What came first, sexual repression or social misfits negatively conditioned who went bad because of it? Do sexual criminals go off the deep end because sex is bad or because it's drummed into their head that it is and they cannot experience lustful thoughts without the connection?
My wife's friend who is a poorly aging sex negative has an addiction to food. In fact, she losing her health because of it. If she were a sex addict she'd be a lot healthier. But since her vice is food, should we ban all pics of food because she's ill? When or where Brie does the issue of her personal irresponsibility come in?
The irony that amuses me most is that prudes who fear human sexuality are the same ones who put job or career above love and family, are barren or not having enough kids. You can't preach utopian morality to sexual instinct. Boys will be boys. Males are visual. Some get hooked, others get over it. So too should you.
Ummm, I don't believe I ever said it should be banned. You're personal attacks are getting weary and I think it's because you have no real argument so you must attack people who disagree with you. I am not a prude and I do not fear sexuality, moreover I think that it is pointless to discuss this with you further because you are too immersed in the sound of your own argument and cannot or will not see beyond it. I think you are the close-minded one.
Men and women have different libidos by instinct or nature, not preconceptions of immorality. Closed-minded attitudes towards that which we may neither accept nor understand reveal an inflexible outlook on life, love and sex. Porn is a vice like any other in that it is ill defined by those who abuse it or have hangups. On average, those who hate porn often don't even like sex. I cannot bring myself to argue about sex with a sexy woman any further. It's like kibbitzing with the ice cream man over flavors. And so you win the anti-porn debate, Brie. Au revoir...
poor GT - are you managing with the children, how are you coping with your new way of life , have you decided to forgive your wife and better yet is she coming home to you?
Must be so hard trying to find your way through all of this miasma of grief! we are all with you....go well
I think most all of you are missing the point. Men or women watch porn because they feel like they are missing the affection they need from their partner and the only way to fill that void is to see someone else having their needs met and living out their needs through them. We have become a world of disconnected individuals. If ones partner has resolved to watching porn it is soley because they are not getting what they need from their spouse or partner. it seems from what I have read on here most of you are to blind to get that.
I disagree with you.
It has been very interesting reading on this hub. I read the article by Naomi Wolfe a few years ago, I actually printed that one and put it in my files. the fact that the cost of opening the flood gates of porn did not have the effect of reducing men to sex craved lunatics but rather, what in my mind is a much more costly effect; the loss of intimacy and the ability to communicate. Lets face it, criminals can be locked up, but how do we redeem the foundation of relationship? the picture Naomi painted with her words of the intensely intimate and private love between the Islamic couple; because no one saw her hair other than her husband. that intimacy, the glue that binds them together.
The title here, "Why Pornography is bad for men" would be better shortened, leaving "Men" off to make it all inclusive. The depiction of the most intimate acts destroying the very ability to be or become intimate, is a horrible cost for everyone, even the children. with the intimacy gone, relationships fail and children are left motherless or fatherless.
fascinating to read the progression of comments here on the topic that degraded to talk of hidden cameras and avoidance by diving into the bottle of some other vice. the polar opposite of real love an intimacy, real time evidence of the the cost played out before us.
I found the former porn stars comments refreshing. jarring to my thinking. "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" Is the problem pornography or something much deeper? Pornography is the objectifying of men and women. Do you watch porn because you objectify men and/or women or does the porn cause it? Are the depictions the cause of the flaw or the flaw the cause of the depictions?
It would seem to me that the relationship would have to have that flaw begin with. the difference being; "look at my girlfriend, isn't she beautiful?" or "look at me with this beautiful woman" " My man is so hot", "Look at me with this hot man" the first, a relationship with the other person, the latter with an object.
Great comments Majicat
Thank you.
listening to the early morning rain, my thoughts drifted back to this. the ex porn star had some interesting things to say. first of all; "A lifetime of red meat is linked to cancer while a lifetime of lustful indulgence is linked to longevity." Lustful indulgence is linked to longevity? the first definition of lust that I found was this: "Lust (or lechery) is an inordinate craving for coitus often to the point of assuming a self-indulgent, and sometimes violent character." Certainly there are more and other definitions but I think that everyone would agree on the "self indulgent" part. A life time of self indulgence is not linked to long life, that is idiocy. if you narrowed it down to a life time of coitus with a variety of partners the idea is still a house of cards. While on the other hand, a life time of coitus with a "mate" would be very healthy for you. a life time of self indulgence would most certainly put you in an early grave, Narcissus slipped into depression and died gazing at his own reflection in the stagnant pool. images, reflections, narcissistic self love, it all fits into pornography like a hand in a glove
further, the Porn Star states;
"The very word pornography is meant to depict pictures of people having sex as whores. If a food channel on cable TV shows people eating would that then make them pigs? "
if a person sat round looking at films and photographs of food for hours on end wouldn't it make sense that they would become gluttonous? to say that the media does not affect human behavior is lunacy. what is the cost now, per second, for advertising during the superbowl? millions of dollars are spent because it works! companies sell more pimple cream. subliminal advertising was outlawed, things like theaters putting one frame in a film, just a flash of some guy stuffing his face with popcorn, sold more popcorn. doing that shit isn't fair, it was outlawed, Obscene images are not? We are talking about pornography here:
Pornography: obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit.
Nudity is not obscene, violence and depravity is. personally I think that seeing someone's head being blown apart on prime time television is much more obscene than a gynecological close up shot of people fucking. But graphic violence and gore, bodies being hacked to bits are the norm in all the media, there is no restraint to that. isn't it any wonder that our world is ruled by violence? children gunning down their classmates in schools has become commonplace. younger and ever younger children having children, unwed child mothers are at epidemic proportions, there is no link to porn? there is no link to self indulgence? a person sitting around for hours on end viewing the violent degradation of men and women has no effect? Come on!
The porn star stated that he loved debating intolerance. addressing the ramifications of pornography is not intolerance any more that talking about the ramifications of substance abuse is. it is the obscene, violent degradation of humanity that we are speaking of, is it not?
it seems as ,all the persons who commented, forgot one fact ,i did not say it first,but iwill paraphrase for the viewers(art and pornography lie in the eye of the beholder) ms.brie has a tendency to be somewhat self-righteous ,when adult actor checkmated her ,she quickly threw in the towel! he has at least read parts of sigmund freud,if not all! i also agree with lisa and teresa,since women have become equals (ERA) they want to experience what their mothers advised them not to do because or their puritanical up-bring it is not uncommon in todays society,for girls/women to have bi-sexuol relationshipsif most men can deal with it but ones who cant ,are usually insecure! mr.majicat sum up my exact sentiments hollywood and television exploit violence,and prime time t.v. have taught us that if if children or adults are exposed to a womans breast. they will be scarred for life! on any given night under -age children are fed a steady diet of violence and sexual innuendos! and parents dont understand why ther children carry guns to school and kill their classmates and their daughters become pregant, parents depend upon the goverment to gude their children,and they are both faling miserbably!
the womanizer is right, depending on the government to legislate morality is an exercise in futility. #1 because you cannot exercise morality and #2 because it is not the job of the government to teach, but rather to enforce. it is the parents job to teach. adults have to come to their own conclusions, intelligent people will make those decisions based on all the facts.
however, most people will throw a fit if you put the wrong brand of oil in their cars, but will eat any damned thing simply because it tastes good. this holds true for things like this as well, people don't care about the effects of their behavior on themselves or on society at large, selfish indulgence is the rule of the day.
you have to be the change you want to see in the world. real change must begin with you
First of all not all porn is air brushed and fake. What if you are into amateur porn?
Also...many women are into porn also. I take it they must be some sort of self loathing monster.
ANYTHING in excess is bad. Also, to say that the key to happiness is to expect nothing from yourself or life, is pretty fatalistic.You should have goals you aim for, otherwise what's the point.
I have to mention something you didn't mention Brie, which was the amout of women also addicted to porn as there are alot of them out there but women are very good at hiding that fact about them and pornography.
I used to use a chat program called Paltalk where people from around the world can chat and use here webcams to see each other. I had a program called splitcam that allows you to show videos instead of your webcam image. I used to show alot of porn on my video in the Adult rooms. Many women would be in the chat room and then announce they are going to bed or leaving but in secret they would instant message me asking me about the porn movies I was showing. This happend a great many times and I have made some good friendships with these women.
To me, porn is only a problem if the person LETS IT BECOME A PROBLEM. WE are all adults here and should know how to distinguish reality from porn. Personally I like women of all shapes and sizes, as far as race that is a different topic lol...
Well, to each his or her own but I stand by my post.
Porn is not bad for men at all. It might bad for women who can't compete. Do women ever look in the mirror and take responsiblity for their own shortcomings? Aren't we all tired of another excuse for women's insufficiencies?
There is no amount of porn that can take a man away from an attractive, intelligent, emotionally mature woman. You can pnly talk about Britney Spears and "The Bachelor" for so long.
Unfortunately, extremely few women want to work on themselves to become that developed person...so they blame porn and invent entire fraudulent "issues" like "the commitment phobe"...as if they are offering men something of value to commit to in the first place.
Boy, if you don't sound like a misogynist!
First of all, u guys are all older thats why some of u dont agree with this. im 16 years old, and just randomly came across this i can tell u that i saw porn at a really realy young age when i first used the computer and i was drawn to it honestly. eventually probably when i was 13 i was completely obsessed with it and even now i have to try to avoid it. everytime i got bored with it id see something even more hardcore and worse that would make me tempted t watch it more and its a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE thing.. ppl my age are out of their minds. girls loose their virginity in middle school and brag about it, the age just gets younger... guys treat girls terribly and its the trend to constantly talk about porn and boobs and degrade us. yet its compltely obvious that those guys are soo insecure about themselves. no ones ever in a real relationship... and wtf, now all of sudden ppl are bragging about having anal sex n stuff.. its DISGUSTING and it only gets worse!! i promise you, whatever u feel about it its a growing problem and it is destroying ppl... intimacy is ruined, ppl are just all about stupid fantasies and they all think sex = porno... and all the sad sick things that go through my mind obviously are on their minds to and they dont even know its a problem.
I cannot even begin to spell your name but I just want to thank you for writing. I am well aware of what is going on with kids your age and it is a terrible shame. I worry about your generation because you may never experience true intimacy. Thanks again for writing g...............
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man_of_sub_stance says:
10 months ago
I couldn't agree more! It does damage a person. In fact, it also desensitizes the viewer as to stimulus, making it harder for him to perform (so I've read). Also, keeping expectations in check is a good way to maintain a healthy perspective. I've always been surprised by intimacy with women, and very rarely disappointed, probably due to my expectations. It's a good thing!