Why "Universal Health Care" in the united states is a non-issue
56What did health care used to be like?
Health care in the United States is a topic of much debate these days.
When my father was a kid, 55 years ago, you would go to the doctor and the doctor would look you over and tell you what it would cost to fix you up. Typically they would fix you up either way and you would pay as you could.
Doctors were fairly plentiful as there was money to be made. Competition ensured that good doctors were busy and bad or poor ones had to go find some other calling.
Everyone could get health care, no insurance or government necessary.
Now, maybe it was different in that time in the big cities, but that, according to my father, was how it was in the smallish town I live in.
Sure, they didn't have all of the amazing machinery that we have today, but people were provided excellent service, told what was going on, and free to choose what they did or did not want done...and the price was typically a bargain.
The diagram below, while not perfect, was approximately how costs flowed.
People paid the doctors and the doctors paid their helpers. Both, perhaps, paid taxes, though you could certainly find good private doctors that did not.
Healthcare today in the United States
Today, there are many people who simply cannot pay for health care. These people need to go to the emergency room when they need medical help.
For those that do have health insurance, they still get huge bills as many insurance agencies do not cover various procedures. The hospital sends a bill to your insurance agency. The insurance agency takes that initial bill to calculate your deductable and percentage to be paid. Then, it discounts various procedures, noting that it will only pay a much smaller value for what it covers to the hospital, dropping its portion to a fraction of what you would have to have paid. Finally, the hospital bills you the full charge for what is left over.
When all is said and done, those with mediocre health care still find themselves unable to pay the bills and find themselves under the thumbs of debt collectors.
It is getting harder and harder to find non-hospital health care providers as the cost of entry gets higher and higher due to factors such as:
- increased government regulations
- increased taxes at all levels
- insane lawsuit verdicts and settlements
And while the non-hospital providers typically offer prices which are much lower than those of hospitals, they are still insane by comparison of what they once were, even with inflation considered.
Below I have included a chart that shows how payment works. Keep in mind that you and I end up paying all costs. Any business that is run competantly passes increased overhead costs (regulation, more employees to handle dealing with the regulations, increased insurance costs, etc. ) on in the form of higher prices for services.
The morass of modern health care
Universal Health Care - "Change"
Proponents of universal health care within the united states are not thinking very critically concerning what that will entail.
There is definitely an upside:
We will get something more than platitudes for our ever increasing taxes.
The down side, of course, being that now when we want to sue for malpractice, we will be suing the government. And, being government agents in fact, medical professionals will likely end up with the same purported "immunity" that cops, judges, and other politicians of all stripes have claimed to have given themselves over the years.
But, whether good or bad, let us look at the structure of change. Do you seriously believe that the structure of hospitals and doctors offices is going to magically change?
I am fairly certain that "change" looks something like the following.
Change! We are saved...er what?
Clearly, a lot will be different.
Hospitals, doctors, employees, managers, and perhaps insurance groups ( the government does carry insurance in the form of bonds ) will suddenly be government controlled entities.
Should the government decide to cut costs by dropping doctors wages, fewer people will be doctors.
Should the government decide that there is only so much money and so people past a certain age aren't eligable for certain procedures, you will be screwed. Nevermind that you have worked your entire life and paid into the fund. Nevermind if you never even used it before. Too old. Next.
The only real changes will be that now you pay what would have been paid to the government, the government takes an extra cut for its work, and then everyone that would have gotten paid previously gets paid and taxed as normal.
And if you want better health care than the government decides that you should have, you still have to buy private insurance.
If Universal Health Care is bought hook, line, and sinker, the next thing coming down the pipes will be Universal Government Employment, and your job, whether it be digging holes and filling them back in, shuffling papers, or doing something productive will be determined by the government for you.
What would really make a difference?
Real change will come when we decide to be responsible for ourselves and force those calling themselves "the government" to downsize.
If you dare to look and see just how much we cannot afford either universal health care or the coming son of stimulus, take a look at government employment, incarceration, and retirement data.
At this point in time, in the united states of america, every non-goverment worker pays for himself, one child, half a government worker, one retired person, and someone in jail.
The back of the working man is about to be broken, and when there is no one to provide real work all of the systems will come down.
Government is the problem, not the solution. Privitization would be beautiful...provided we abolished corporate personhood and made everyone liable for their own acts. If we continue to allow corporations to have standing in law and giving ever more control to the men and women calling themselves government, we deserve what we get...well, most of us.
Saving on hospital costs
- The Lawful Path - Welcome
Home of "How to Survive Hospital Costs Without Insurance", an excellent guide for those willing to spend a little time, effort, and energy to save a lot on health care costs.
A smokescreen as well?
As an aside...
Being a student of the conspiratory view of history, I cannot help but thing something strange is going on whenever I see a media blitz on a particular topic.
This usually happens to keep something important off of the peoples radar.
What could it be? Is there a reason that this is not front page news? Yeah, I think we are experiencing a combination of hoodwinking and media blitz. Par for the course from our complicit lapdog news media outlets.
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Discussion
I don't see how it would be any cheaper overall, especially once one considers the time cost of having to go to our horribly inefficient government to get medical care, jump through hoop after hoop to do so, and then, when things go wrong, bring suit against people calling themselves the government.
It is bad enough going after a normal corporation when they screw up. Going after the government? Good luck with that one here.
I will re-run the research I did a bit over a year ago and post the numbers here later. If memory serves, twenty to thirty percent of the populace pays for everyone else. When you get "free" health care, everyone goes in to get treatment for every little thing. That may not be true in european countries, but it is certainly true here where most just want free everything...not comprehending that there is no such thing as free.
Maybe european governments are not as corrupt as those here are, but the people calling themselves the government here have proven over and over that if you let them do anything, it will cost you twice as much, they will take twice as long, and the work will be half as good as what anyone else would have done.
This has not always been true, but it certainly is today.
The real solution to the "medical crisis" in this country is to abolish corporate personhood and sweep this country free of the ever growing executive branches of government.
Drop the barrier to entry and the horde of parasites on the back of those who actually do medical work and prices would drop rapidly while the availability of doctors would increase significantly.
Here in the united states, the last thing we need is more government...the peoples backs are already breaking.
Most European countries spend less on health care as a proportion of GDP than America does, but health stats (such as infant mortality, life expectancy) are better.
"Real change will come when we decide to be responsible for ourselves and force those calling themselves "the government" to downsize."
So how do you see the U.S. getting from where it is now to the kind of U.S. you want it to be? How do you move a population dependent on corporate work to a population of individuals "responsible for themselves." How does that happen without great misery and carnage?
It's not that I don't understand and even agree with some parts of what you are saying, it's just that I don't hear a solution in there, only an ideology. Show me the practical way out and I'll be more persuaded.
I've been trying to follow your logic, and as far as I can see you appear to be saying that universal healthcare would be complicated, so let's not bother? It's actually quite a simple system. Doctors would not have to buy themselves such high insurance coverage, either, as they would be in group coverage, and that is what contributes to the high costs of doctor's visits now. The national insurance deduction for patients would be around what we're already paying or a lot less, in some cases, since self-employed or those not on group policies would find their contributions greatly reduced.
Prevention and education are contributing factors to the success of national health insurance in European countries.
Liberty Unchained,
We have Universal Healthcare in the UK. if I'm sick, I make an appointment and go to a doctor's surgery. There is no paperwork necessary for this, nor any payment. If medication is then prescribed, as a working tax-payer, I pay a contribution (equivalent of around 8 or 9 US$) for each item, and I pick these items up from the pharmacy of my choice. If my children are sick, it's the same procedure, except that being minors, I contribute nothing towards their prescriptions. Should more serious care be needed I'm referred to a hospital. Again, I complete no paperwork at this stage, and no costs are incurred. If I need surgery then there are forms to sign, but still no fees. My national insurance contribution is minimal compared to what I would have to pay in the USA, and there is a ceiling, so that even if I were a mega-bucks earner, I would not have to pay a ridiculous sum for the same cover.
How is this complex? Universal Health Care is exactly what America needs, and, oh, what a pity, if some of those greedy insurance companies go bust in the process!
It is not that, if implemented as it is in Europe, it would not be better than what we have here now, but rather that there is no way that the medial/insurance/pharma complex would allow that to happen unless they were going to be better off then they now are.
The federal government is beholden to monied interests that would simply not allow it. What I am getting at is that, no matter what is claimed by those passing such things, they will be about control, not health. Monetarily, things will be the same or worse. As far as freedom goes, they will get much worse.
I know that it sounds strange and most cannot believe that "their government" would do such things. However, all one has to do is look at the history of the various acts passed by the federal and state governments to see that they are not interested in us beyond our ability to pay taxes.
There is no solution other than for things to get so bad that people start facing our real problems here in the states. And the real problems are all sourced to the banking complex, the government (which it controls), and the corporations (which are in turn controlled by the governments). No one wants to admit that we live in a system of fuedal serfdom and that the aristocrats are running this once fine country into the ground. Until it is admitted, and the horror of the truth faced, there will be no solution.
The up side is that we, as individual people, have it within our powers to bring about real change by controlling our pocketbooks. Should enough people be liquidated and start asking questions, it is entirely within our power to put things right.
As for the insurance companies, you can be sure that they will not go bust. At worst they will just become embedded within the government and be used for some other scheme. If they were not going to benefit, universal health system would never make the news. In this land, if the monied interests don't like something, no one hears about it. You can verify that for yourselves just by comparing our news agencies to those around the world. To get factual news in the states, one must watch news from other parts of the world. Nothing important is in our news unless it is flashed quickly in a ticker at the bottom of the screen while someone being pictured is being horribly distracting.
I would not be surprised to see it emplemented as a way of ensuring that the old die before they get social security benefits as there is no money left in that pool...it has already been raided and spent long ago. The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging that the problem exists...and here in the land called the united states no one wants to admit that we have a malignant government as the source of our problems.
Negative? Perhaps. That does not make it less true. There _is_ hope, but it exists within us, the people, and not within the parasites that infest our halls of power.
There is indeed hope. Not everybody in politics is corrupt, and not all politicians and media men can be bought. There are plenty of people who want change. Just look how many voted for Obama. I think you may be surprised at how things turn out in the long term. People already are banding together to make a difference, and it may be that change will come from the ground up this time. I know this is slightly off topic, but if you get a minute, check out my hub on Transition Towns. Community is going to be the key to the future, and that will probably include community based (and financed) health care. I hope so anyway.
Amanda you make a good point. I would just add that Britain got their health care system in place when they were flat broke and it didn't look possible and it has worked out very well indeed.
Politics is by definition a fight between monied interests over power. That's what politics is. There is no such thing as a world without politics. It only exists in the imaginations of revolutionary thinkers. When the revolution happens, the former revolutionaries take control and start fighting amongst each other for power and money. Revolution looks good to the disenfranchised--to people who think they have no shot at power OR money. But it's not effective, it just resets the system so a new group of greedy bastards can get in.
A better plan is to just start working to create what you want, understanding that you will never get everything you want.
I think there's a good chance some corporate interests WILL fail in coming years. The rot at the top has become unsustainable. Things will change. I haven't given up on an orderly change. I don't think chucking our current system is a solution, it's just angry acting-out. If you don't have a better plan, don't rip up the shoddy plan we have in place. Focus on getting a better plan.
As near as I can tell, Obama is more of the same, beholden to the same people that Bush was. His shouts of "change" ring hollow in my ears as I look at the acts being run through congress. More of the same.
As for myself, I am not angry, nor am I acting out. I am simply stating what I see to be true.
I have a much better plan than "universal health care" (a.k.a. control of our health care by provably corrupt government). It is quite simple and we all can do it if we decide that we care to:
1. Eat better foods. Foods that are good for us are just as cheap as those that are bad for us. Of course, we have to learn what good foods are and how to spot bad ones.
2. Stop believing the drug companies and the doctors. Instead, ask questions and research things then decide for ourselves what we want for care. Learn to ask doctors about the procedures they think are necessary, find out what the options are, and take control of our own lives. It is _always_ more expensive to have someone else take care of everything then it is to do what we can ourselves.
3. Stop worshipping coercion. If theft by one man is bad, then theft by a group of people calling themselves the government is just as bad. Just because they redistribute the stolen money to their voting blocks does not make them moral.
4. Stop paying any taxes that can be reasonably avoided. This means looking at our spending habbits, learning some law, questioning authority, and perhaps even joining the grey markets. Our taxes do not go to these programs, but instead to the federal reserve bankers.
If the government can issue trillions of dollars to dole out to the huge corrupt banks in our name, then surely it can do the same to provide health care to everyone without a penny in taxes. Our entire money system is a confidence game.
The best plan is to downsize government as much as possible. The only way to do that is to stop giving them consent.
We don't need a "drug war". We don't need to be sticking people in jail who have not harmed anyone else. We don't need to be having our military all over the world policing or fighting everyone else. And we certainly don't need "FEMA".
Drop the huge, wasteful federal agencies and start printing up money for people instead of banks. With the cost of wars, foreign occupations, fema, drug task forces, etc, out of the budget there would be more than enough surplus to not require any taxes. This would make us all much richer.
And as to politicians...there are almost no good politicians at the federal level. None. Look at their voting records on things like the patriot act.
In reality, we must take care of ourselves and those around us as best we can because "the government" certainly does not have our best interests in mind.
And just one more note I forgot to mention. The solution I use myself I speak of a bit at http://hubpages.com/hub/You-can-beat-corruption-in .
Health care was actually quite available and quite affordable through unions in the early years of the 20th century. Essentially, the guarantee of a steady client base was enough incentive for doctors to keep their prices reasonable. Also, the competition for those clients kept standards high and still allowed doctors to make a good living. That changed when the AMA became involved and lobbied the government to regulate the medical industry (through them of course), which led to the current employer based system we have today and drove the expenses up to the point where you couldn't get health care without it.
You are on the right track here. It should be obvious to anybody that what killed our medical system was when the government entered the fray with Medicare and Medicaid. The cost has exploded since these programs came to be. Anytime you can get all of something you want with other people paying for it, and create a humongous bureaucracy to boot—waste, fraud, over-billing, unnecessary procedures are sure to follow. I have asked hundreds of old timers and I can't find anybody who couldn't get medical treatment in 1962. It is just another for the government to take control of our lives; eliminate our freedom; and the sheep are all for it because they are weak.
LondonGirl says:
10 months ago
"If Universal Health Care is bought hook, line, and sinker, the next thing coming down the pipes will be Universal Government Employmen"
Why? Most European countries have had the former for decades, without having the latter. It works out cheaper over all, as well.