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Science Fiction Would Have Been Better: Why ECT is Stranger than Fiction

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By Teresa McGurk



Recovery Doesn't Always Use the Same Fabric

You have a favorite armchair, that was yours since childhood; every time you've moved to a new country, new circumstances, you've taken it with you and would never willingly part with it. One night your house catches fire, and the terrifically prompt response from the fire department saves the house and its contents, although of course scorching and water damage render some of your belongings beyond repair, the house is safe and can be restored to its former condition. Well, no, actually; it can't. But close enough to wipe out the panic of seeing the smoke and the glow of flames inside the safest place you know. There are many treatments for such disorder: paint, new pieces of furniture here and there, fabric and dishes -- each one alone is not enough by itself, but together they create the desired effect. You might tell yourself that your home now is better than it was before, that the new material you were able to find for your favorite armchair is more lasting and durable. But you wouldn't ever want your house to catch on fire again, no matter how superior the new paint job. And the fabric on the chair is different, now. And besides, you realize that someone set the fire on purpose.

You fall off a cliff. Miraculously, descent is tempered by shrubs reaching out from the cliff wall, a cartoon Road Runner inflating t-shirt that acts as your parachute, and you are caught in an air matress installed for just such a mishap. But many of the bones in your body are broken and recovery in hospital is slow. And after a few days of unconsciousness you wonder why you were wearing the helmet that saved your skull from fracture, and realize you didn't just fall. It takes months of traction, surgery, and pain followed by months of physio-therapy, hard work, and pain before you can dance at a céilidh again. All the doctors and nurses at the hospital are kind, helpful -- generous with their time in ensuring you can walk again. But you know that one of them pushed you.

Science Fiction?

Eighteen months after being administered a series of electroconvulsive treatments (the "T" in ECT purportedly stands for "therapy"; I find nothing theraputic in the procedure), I am now finally realizing what I lost in the process, what belongings were scorched or suffered water damage, what bones were broken in the fall off that cliff, what vast differences there are between life and science fiction. I don't remember how many such treatments I had, but have since been reading up on the subject, and now know that electrodes are prevented from burning the skin by the use of a conductive gel, and that "from 70 to 400 volts and an amperage of from 200 milliamperes to 1.6 amperes" (Stephens) is passed bilateraly through the brain, that a muscle relaxant is administered to prevent the patient from breaking bones or bruising, that physically it's harmless.

I would rather have been pushed off that cliff.


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The fabric of my life is different now

I really like my psychiatrist, and I trust him in the area of psycho-pharmacology. He is young, earnest, cares about his patients. I call him Kid Josh (and I can't remember if I've told him that or not). He's a decent guy, just opened his practice a couple of years ago, and he is very encouraged by my recovery -- which he considers to be proof of the efficacy of ECT. It was a treatment of last resort. Nothing else was working. I have little-to-no memory of the events leading up to the decision. I know that I agreed to the treatment only because I am told so. So enough electricity to start a fire or kill a horse was passed through both sides of the brain. My BRAIN, for crying out loud.

Little is known about what happens in the brain during ECT, but all can agree that it "does something" to alleviate severe chronic depression. Advocates for the treatment assert that the damage caused is "negligible and transient" (Coleman xiii) and that such damage is a temporary side-effect. The damage to the brain causes the patient to be

  • dazed, confused, and disoriented, and therefore [unable to] remember or appreciate current problems. The shocks are then continued for a few weeks (sometimes several times a day) to make the procedure 'take,' that is, to damage the brain sufficiently so that the individual will not remember, at least for several months, the problems that led to his being shocked in the first place. The greater the brain damage, the more likely that certain memories and abilities will never return. Thus memory loss and confusion secondary to brain injury are not side effects of electroshock; they are the means by which families (perhaps unwittingly) and psychiatrists sometimes choose to deal with troubled and troublesome persons. Many of us would question such a dubious means of obliterating, rather than dealing with, emotional distress. (Coleman xiii)

I've just reread the sentence I started this paragraph with: "Little is known about what happens to the brain during ECT." I mean, are ya serious? If ya don't know what you're doing, why in the name of holy bletherin' Jaysus are you doing it? "The mechanism by which ECT produces it effects is not known." (Victor and Ropper 1620) (that's a page number, incidentally, not the date of publication).


"There is no conclusive proof that ECT damages the brain."

If you ask the doctors who administer ECT they will tell you that it is perfectly safe and that it helps a far greater percentage of patients than any other treatment in cases of chronic, resistant, depression. I'm not going to argue with that. I'd just like to point out that they might not have it quite right, yet.

The following comes from Johnstone, Lucy. "The Adverse Psychological Effects of ECT," which surveys recent research on patients reporting memory lapses, confusion, and disorientation, citing

  • several recent surveys carried out by investigators from outside the hospital setting which paint a much less reassuring picture. In the first one, UKAN (United Kingdom Advocacy Network) received 306 replies to a questionnaire distributed through UKAN- affiliated groups, Mindlink and Survivors Speak Out (both the last being service-user run organisations.) Overall, 35.1% described ECT as "damaging" with another 16.5% saying it was "not helpful." Although 30.1% found that it was helpful or very helpful, those who did not were likely to express very strong views against it, using words like "brutal", "barbaric" and "degrading." Psychological after-effects included loss of confidence, dignity and self-esteem; fear of hospitals and psychiatry; anger and aggression; loss of self; and nightmares. Similar themes emerged from a series of semi-structured interviews with 516 psychiatric patients contacted through MIND (Rogers, Pilgrim and Lacey, 1993.)

I've written elsewhere on HubPages about the effects of ECT on the patient (see below); suffice it to say that it took me eighteen months to be able to read again (I'm supposed to be an English professor?); I spent the first eight months recovering my vocabulary by playing the quiz game at FreeRice.com (I'm supposed to be a poet and editor, y'all?); yep.  I'm a little bit angry.  I've written about it also on a site dedicated to the stories of people who have had both positive and negative experiences with ECT, but I can't remember what it was called and I can't find it anymore, or I would post a link -- some of the stories are really horrific. 

More on the Subject, or around it, or connected to it somehow

Works Cited

 

Coleman, Lee. Introduction, The History of Shock Treatment. ed. L. R. Frank. xiii.  quoted in Stephens, below.

Johnstone, Lucy. "The Adverse Psychological Effects of ECT." Journal of Mental Health 8.1 (1999): 69-85.

Stephens, Lawrence. Psychiatry's Electroconvulsive SHOCK TREATMENT: A Crime Against Humanity. No date. http://www.antipsychiatry.org/ect.htm. Feb 15 2009.

Victor, Maurice, and Allan H. Ropper.  Adams and Victor's Principles of Neurology. 7th ed. New York: McGraw-Hill Medical, 2001. 1620.

Westgarth, Sam. "ECT: What No One is Talking About.+ Apr 2 2008 http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7179. Feb 15 2009.


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LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

That sounds absolutely terrifying <hugs>

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Thanks. I think it was humiliating rather than terrifying, since I couldn't remember the name of Hamlet's father when I tried to go back to teaching. Sorta useful if ya know those little things. But it's all coming back. Just in random order.

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

What do you mean by random order?Feel free to tell me to mind my own business.

FreezepopMorality profile image

FreezepopMorality  says:
10 months ago

Heavy stuff. But for some reason I'd thought they'd discontinued ECT. But a quick look here and wikipedia says its alive and kicking. I'll leave the helpfulness/harmfulness debate to the doctors, but it still feels to me like medieval leech treatment. Need something better.

goldentoad profile image

goldentoad  says:
10 months ago

hugs, teresa, hugs.

tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04  says:
10 months ago

One positive side-effect of ECT might be that you are now angry instead of depressed? I'm not too serious of course. I have long, from a lay-person's perspective, been highly sceptical of ECT - it seems like leeches to me also, or maybe cupping. If you don't know fully what the effects of a treatment will be then don't effing use it!

So yes, like goldentoad I say, "Hugs, and lots of them!"

Love and peace

Tony

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

Hugs Teresa.

I am deeply sorry that you had to go through that that. Thank you for writing this Hub - if even one person is spared this treatment through your words, then you have achieved a good thing.

I curse anybody that still believes in ECT, from the bottom of my heart. It is a foul and barbaric pseudo-scientific treatment, with no place in medicine. How can they give 'informed consent' if they do not know what the treatment actually does. Hemingway's mind was ruined after the treatment, leading to his suicide - they don't seem to understand that creativity and mental illness often go together.

Got to agree with Tony - break out the leeches.

Elena. profile image

Elena.  says:
10 months ago

Whoa Teresa -- I'm not sure whether to post an empathizing comment or a raving mad one.  I guess hugs first and rants later, you probably have enough rants of your own to last the rest of your life.

I think the title of this article is very apt... this seems like science fiction, it's beyond me how this type of "therapy" exists and people justify it or explain it.  I don't see it too different from a lobotomy.  Oh well, I said no rants, I better shut up already.  BTW, the crack you make with that page number --not to be confused with a publicat¡on year... well, I think it pretty much describes my feelings about this whole thing.

BESOS, warm ones at that!

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Wow, guys -- thanks for all your kind comments! I debated on whether or not to publish this one, as you can imagine, but it's a topic that needs to be brought to light. The real irony from a legal standpoint is that I was considered to be debilitated enough at the time to be told not to sign any legal documents, but apparently had to sign a consent form for the treatments. . . .

Londongirl: random, in that I never know what or how is going to return; chance words will spark a whole "file" of memory to return.

Freezepop: they only consider administering the treatment now in a small percentage of recalcitrant cases. I'd have rather had the leeches, though.

Toad: thanks for dropping by. Hugs always welcome.

Tony: LOL yeah, I never want to be that depressed again! I want to be a little old lady who smiles all the time!

Sufi, dear heart, thanks -- but the awful part is that the people who do get the treatment (nowadays) would seem to have no other recourse. So while Hemingway shouldn't have had it (and when it was administered to him there was probably no anaesthetic given), and maybe wouldn't have had it today, since the drugs are getting better and better -- there's still the chance that he would have welcomed it as the only way out. Unfortunately, the people who do have it would be too depressed to read a blog, but hopefully friends and family could give better advice if they knew more about it.

Elena, mi amiga, thank you for stopping by and for being outraged. I can't help feeling violated by the treatments, and meanwhile the medical community discounts a lot of patients' accounts of their distress because "you can't rely on the word of the mentally ill"!! say WHUT?

Cris A profile image

Cris A  says:
10 months ago

hey teresa

it does sound scary to say the least for someone who just basically treats everything with paracetamol and lots of prayers. and you deserve more than a pat on the back for coming into the light with this one. Thanks for sharing and hugs to you :D

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Thanks, Cris -- I do appreciate your support!

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

Thanks for being your usual considerate self - I do get a little carried away sometimes! - It does make me a little angry, as you probably noticed.

The 'informed consent' is the bit that really angers me. My friend's aunt was admitted to a mental hospital with severe depression - after a couple of months, it transpired that they had been giving her ECT. The psychiatrists did not think to mention this to the family - they just asked a very sick lady to sign a form that she did not understand.

The family got her out of there, quickly.

I really hope that the recovery goes well - your English is certainly back, with a vengeance (and a lot of style!).

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Thanks, Sufi! Yes -- I wholeheartedly agree that patients need advocates to look after their interests -- I can't believe that the family was not informed in the case you mention -- that's really criminal. Diminished responsibility means just that: an inability to form compentent decisions. I raked up $20k in credit card debt by shopping online because I thought it would be ok. Someone should have taken that card away from me while I was ill!

Thanks for the compliment about my English -- I still have problems typing the correct letters, and proofread everything 3 times before posting; even so. . .

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

I write for a living and proofread everything at least five times - I am the worst typist on Earth!

Never been happy with the science behind ECT - a 30% success rate may be fine if you are testing painkillers, but is woeful for major interventions. If a heart surgeon had the same rate of failure for a new procedure s/he would stop doing it!

Unfortunately, mental illness still carries a stigma - sufferers are not seen as 'properly' ill. The forgotten people:(

Some of our greatest minds had serious problems - so many great comedians, writers, mathematicians etc. were manic depressives. Creativity often comes from the part of the brain affected by depression - glad that your Hub is raising awareness.

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

COuldn't agree more. If there was a medicine that cured the common cold 30% of the time, with no side effects, everyone would be very happy. ECT isn't the same kettle of fish at all.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

The science is woefully behind the times, and the medical community still isn't responding well to claims from patients that they have suffered brain damage. Wish I could find again the doctor who was a proponent for it throughout his career, and only now is realizing the true results and has completely turned about face in his feelings towards it.

Shalini Kagal profile image

Shalini Kagal  says:
10 months ago

Teresa - you are amazing! I've known people who've been through ECT (like you, I say 'therapy'???!!!) and they just haven't been able to build a life after that - just mere existence. I watched Fedora a long time ago and that's one scene that's stuck in my mind - the way her eyes looked after the treatment.

Hugs to you - your joie de vivre, your sense of hunour and your kindness are too strong for any kind of cruel treatment to leave its mark for too long!

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Shalini: what a kind comment! Thank you so much for reading and responding. I intend to keep the joie de vivre as long as I possibly can!

Shalini Kagal profile image

Shalini Kagal  says:
10 months ago

That's why you're a favourite at HubPages :)

I wrote about something similar here:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Supplements-and-Schizophre

I've found that any kind of disturbance in the mind's make-up can be alleviated to a great extent with the use of the biochemic remedy Kali Phos. I gave it to my father in law for two years along with his usual prescription drugs for Alzheimer's - and it's amazing how it calms and brings clarity to the mind.

I guess you know that a lot of mind alteration is thanks to additives, synthetic colours, preservatives, etc. :(

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Yeah, Shalini -- I'm hypersensitive to what I put in my body, now, and am weaning myself off as much synthetic crap as I can. Organic food is a bit more expensive, here, but worth it. Now: if I could just stop these chocolate cravings! LOL

Thanks for the link -- I'm going there now. . .

Sally's Trove profile image

Sally's Trove  says:
10 months ago

Teresa, thank you so much for writing about this experience. You were brave to go through it, and even braver to talk about it now. I, as some of your readers, have known another who has been through this treatment. It is viewed as a treatment of last resort, and so I understand the desperation that leads there.

I am new to you on HP. I have read some of your Hubs, and now that I know this story, I look at you as an incredibly courageous soul. Whatever you are doing now, you are doing it right. I don't have enough thumbs to put up as many as I'd like for both your writing and your courage.

Warmest regards, Sally

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Wow, Sally -- I don't know how to thank you for that kind comment. I have had nothing but encouragement and support here on HP -- it has brought real joy into my life while letting me get back to doing what I enjoy most, which is putting words together. Thank you very much for your kindness.

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

Green & Black organic chocolate is your friend....

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Ah, yes! Green and Black. But maybe not in the quantities I have in mind!

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

you can have my share, I'm not that keen on choc

TKIMWRSVC profile image

TKIMWRSVC  says:
10 months ago

Well I admired and enjoyed your writing before having read this hub your writing and articulate nature is all the enjoyable and commendable. I applaud you.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Thank you both: LG for the chocolate, and TKIM for the compliment. Thanks!

Shalini Kagal profile image

Shalini Kagal  says:
10 months ago

Chicken soup 'n chocolate be good for the soul :D

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

You said it! (Just not in the same bowl.)

Peggy W profile image

Peggy W  says:
10 months ago

Teresa, This is the 3rd hub in a row that I have just read of yours. You are a phenomenal woman! When I took my psychiatric nurses training......eons ago!.....I thought the so called "treatment" of electric shock was barbaric then. I had no idea that it still was being done.

You have a new fan!

By the way...........leeches are being utilized again and for good purposes folks. Some old time remedies make sense. Just getting past the idea of it is the tough part.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Thank you for the very kind comment, Peggy. Yep: it's still happening.

As for the leeches -- I understand that they can be very useful for helping skin grafts "take" because they literally suck blood into the graft and keep it viable. So maybe they'll find the correct use for ECT someday, too.

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

Aren't maggots also being used again, to eat away the nasty parts of things such as ulcers?

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

Beat me to it, LG - they are!

Little fishes and shrimps are used to cure eczema, too.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Leeches and maggots and shrimps, Oh my!

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

and pseriosis (sp?)

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

LG - They sure do! Mind you, it looks like we squeamed Teresa!

One of the older guys in Greece told us a story - he was stung by a scorpion on his ankle, once. He suffered three days of undescribable agony - afterwards, however, he noticed that the arthritis in his knee had gone. I believe that they are looking at bee-stings for arthritis, too.

Just for you Teresa, I will try to find something more gruesome!

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

There is a Chinese medicine for impotence, which is made from the urine of a snow frog and a strange parasitic mushroom that grows out of hte brains of caterpillars. Will that do?

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Actually, it's kinda cool. Though I think you made the brain mushrooms bit up (please?). And what the heck is a snow frog?

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

Bang on the money!

There is that coffee made from coffee beans that have passed through the intestines of a small rodent!

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not the small rodent coffee! ARGH!

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Darn it, the snow frog exists. Shoulda known better than to question a barrister

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

You never know until you have tried it! Slurp!

Must admit, it sounds a little strange to me, and very expensive. Probably a case of the Emperor's New Clothes - people pay a fortune to drink it whilst the rest of us laugh at their pretentiousness.

Mind you, I used to live next door to Rugby players - vile people. Some of the 'pranks' they used to get up to were about 100 times worse than any of the above!

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Well, I do like foie gras, so I suppose intestinal coffee beans are not such a stretch.

Yeah -- I'd probably rather drink that than anything concocted by rugby players. I knew a rugby player once. His name was ox.

Sufidreamer profile image

Sufidreamer  says:
10 months ago

Ox - that figures. They always seem to have names like that. Intelligent men, but get a few of them together with a keg of beer.......

I used to play Rugby League, and those guys do not get up to the same shenanigans as the Union boys.

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

Oh, ye of little faith....

Actually, the mushroom bit is true, but I left the sparrow's heads out of the recipe, mea culpa.

"Dr. Clark also talked about exotic Tibetan aphrodisiacs like the urine of the Tibetan Snow Frog and a rare orchid root, which the Tibetans use to induce virility. He said that the Tibetan concept of the aphrodisiac differed from the Western concept of immediate sexual arousal. He said that during the rejuvenation process the practitioner is supposed to control sexual desire, and that the aphrodisiacs allow them to harness more energy by control."

http://www.reversespins.com/tibetanmedicine.html

This is a transcript of the original programme I saw on Newsnight in 2005:

"The life cycle of Yarchagumba is not fully understood but what we do know is that at the beginning of the monsoon, spores of the cordiceps mushroom land on the head of caterpillars from the Lepidoptera family. The parasite then works its way into the insect’s brain, soaking up its energy before killing it."

and:

"Studies at Beijing Medical University have shown a 64% success rate among men suffering from impotence after taking a course of yarchagumba. It’s suggested it’s first dried and powdered before being mixed with milk but Tibetans have another idea. They suggest mixing it with sparrow’s head and the urine of a snow frog. Well whatever the concoction, the best thing is there’s no side effects."

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2005/s144562

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Ok. NOW I'm officially, totally, completely, grossed out. Glad there are no side effects, though.

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

OH and I saw the Newsnight thing the evening of a day when we'd spent hours in a hosptial ward trying to get the newborn Isaac to give a urine sample.

So, naturally, he's been called the Snow Frog ever since.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Oh, how cute. No wonder the story stuck in your mind. He's a darlin' wee snow frog.

LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl  says:
10 months ago

He's OK, in small doses.

pgrundy profile image

pgrundy  says:
10 months ago

Wow. I'm so sorry you had to go through this. A family member voluntarily (she thinks) went through ECT years ago for chronic severe depression and to this day says it was the only thing that helped, but it sounds barbaric. She doesn't take medications anymore and she seems fine, says she's fine, and yet, I'm more with you on it--where do they get off doing something to people they don't even understand? Why not just call in a witch doctor? (That might actually work better, but that's a different hub entirely.)

I was in treatment for PTSD and chronic severe depression for years. Most of it was completely unhelpful. I the mid-90s I was put on antidepressants, and it was like flipping a light switch it was so dramatically effective. Within two weeks it felt like I'd woken from a horrible dream and I was fine. This after years of expensive psychotherapy that did nothing except give me someone to talk to once or twice a week. But after several years, I found myself on no less that FIVE prescription drugs, each new one meant to counteract some side effect of another one. My health insurance was covering less and less, I was beginning to feel the depression slip back, and I was struggling with high blood pressure from one of the meds and a host of other health problems. So I said, screw it, went off ALL the meds,  got sick as a dog for about two months, and now I feel OK most of the time. Some days I do worry about slipping into depression again, but I just don't have the resources I need for all the doctoring, and I'm not at all convinced that they know what they are doing or care about me personally. I care about me personally, so I've taken it into my own hands.

We'll see how it goes. You have my empathy and support. Dealing with chronic severe depression is terrifying as well as debilitating. Most people don't realize what it is like and sometimes make it worse with dumb pep talks and so forth. ((((hugs))))

Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn  says:
10 months ago

Hi Teresa,

I'd no idea that ECT was still practised. In fact, as I was reading this hub, the words 'They did what?' slipped out quite involuntarily. How is this a cure for depression? It beggars belief.

Reading it reminded me of various articles I have read that seek to demonstrate how the human mind will often strive to accept the unacceptable, purely because it has a need to be proven right. Hence, abusers blame the abused, murderers blame their victims, dangerous drivers blame road conditions, etc. etc. This makes me wonder whether the 30 odd% of people who found ECT helpful had in fact deluded themselves into a belief that because it is 'apparently' a bona fide treatment which they 'apparently' agreed to, it must, therefore, have done the trick.

Teresa, a big cyber hug to you, and I truly, sincerely hope and pray that you never have to go through any such ordeal again.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Thanks, grundygirl -- I'm sorry to hear you have had to deal with depression. The light switch is great when it turns on -- it is truely a wonderful feeling. What started the whole spiral down for me in the first place was when the drugs stopped working, and no combination of anything switched any lights on at all. Now I take three, but am working towards weaning myself off them -- not completely, but Kid Josh says it's time to start cutting back, and that makes me trust him even more (a psych in my past told me I'd be taking them for the rest of my life, so I'd better just get used to it).

In my situation, I fully understand all the economic considerations you are facing, since I'm in the same situation. I wonder though (please don't think I'm being intrusive) whether you might be able to find just one of the anti-depressants that helps without side effects? We've both heard those talks -- if we had high blood pressure, we'd be daft not to treat it, if we were diabetics, etc., and depression is brain chemistry that needs meds like any other ailment. Point is, it's kinda true -- I admire you greatly for ditching the meds (sounds as if the complications were getting ridiculous, and you did the right thing -- then). But maybe it would be a good idea to have a back-up plan. As Lemony Snicket says, "always have an all-purpose escape plan." hugs.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Amanda -- thanks for reading. Your point about people needing to justify and rationalize the worth of the treatment is intriguing, and I bet you're on to something, there.

Thanks for the cyber-hug. I'm determined never to go through it again, although it has been mentioned as a "maintenance treatment." Nope!

pgrundy profile image

pgrundy  says:
10 months ago

I agree with your assessment Teresa. I think I should be on SOMETHING, but I have no insurance right now and even less trust of the medical system. My shrink also told me I'd be on the meds for life, get used to it, but then they got more and more expensive and stopped working as well, plus all the side effects--which I understand now is fairly typical. Mental health programs have been gutted in the U.S. I honestly don't know what to do about it, and so far I feel OK, so I try not to think about it. But you know how it can go. Boom. You're gone that fast, down in a hole.

Bill and I hope to marry soon, and if he doesn't lose his job then I will have health insurance. First I have to discharge debts that I would  be unable to discharge if married--some medical, most piled up over the past two years that we were unable to sell my house in Indiana. Like so many people are age, our situation is complicated by obligations we can't meet and limited resources for straightening it all out.

So that will take awhile. It's very frustrating. Sometimes I do feel kind of tossed aside, socially speaking. I mean, it's like, oh you're old and broken so who cares about you? If you can't make us money, go be cat food or something. You really have to be your own advocate the way things are now. I hope we get some of the social safety nets we once had back. It's quite inhumane the way it is now. But I do have a plan. Just makes me nervous.

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

Yeah. Being your own advocate is hard work and emotionally draining and you think - why did I pay all the social security taxes all my life when there's no health insurance at the end of it? I was very lucky to be able to continue the health care (at a price) I had as a professor, since it was a state school. But while waiting for it to kick back in, I had to pay $200 for one of the drugs, for a 30-day supply. And Kid Josh isn't in the system, so I either pay him full price or he cuts me a break because he's a good guy.

Practical issues: there are people out there with money to buy houses -- they are just waiting (vultures) for the interest rate on mortgages to hit rock bottom before they buy. Your house could well sell soon, as now it looks like some sort of stability will be coming back to the market. Maybe even folks who just plain were scared to commit to buying will feel safer about getting a mortgage now, I dunno.

I hope Bill's job becomes more secure -- sometimes living with the fear of being laid off is worse than actually having to deal with the reality. And in the meantime, debt is an ugly beast to contend with. I have a lot myself, and knowing that it would all disappear if I could only sell my house is frustrating. When you and Bill get married, and you are on his health insurance, things will seem a lot more secure. In the meantime, I wish you all the very best -- from one harried woman to another: hang in there, for all you're (literally) worth.

pgrundy profile image

pgrundy  says:
10 months ago

Thanks! I feel lucky to have a roof over my head and people who care about me. I know it's getting hard for everyone right now. You hang in there too!

Christoph Reilly profile image

Christoph Reilly  says:
10 months ago

Theresa:  Well, I had no idea.  I'm  (was going to write "shocked"--guess that's not the right word) gobsmacked.  Just speaking as a casual observer and admirer of your writing talents (and your mind too) I wouldn't have guessed in a million years.  My uncle was given shock treatments in the early eighties.  It was a surprise as I thought the practice had been discontinued as ineffectual and barbaric a long time before. He was never quite the same, just sort of...vacuous.

I watched a documentary about the start of these treatments and was sort of horrified by it's early use and the ease with which they decided it was the correct treatment.  As you pointed out, it was used mostly just to turn hard to handle mental patients into something akin to zombies.

Anyway, I know I can't put myself into your shoes, but again, you seem to be recovering very well.  I hope it continues to your satisfaction.  You have described the ordeal artfully.  I hope some day to write as well.  I know I will never equal your honesty.

Your friend

Teresa McGurk profile image

Teresa McGurk  says:
10 months ago

I very much appreciate the kindness, Christoph. I'm hoping that they can figure out a way to do it without damage or stop altogether. When I say I'd rather have fallen off that cliff, I'm not joking. To think that they used to administer it to conscious patients with no muscle relaxant is horrifying indeed. I was a zombie for months afterwards, and it was only by pushing myself that I've been able to focus.

Obviously I've been scared that I'd lost my identity -- that part of my brain that made me tick (or tic, sometimes, :) ). Writing here on HubPages has been great exercise for the old gray cells. Thanks for your comments, people here have helped me more than they could possibly know.

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