My First Encounter with OSHO (philosophy)
75
The influence of OSHO
I vividly remember the day when a young boy (probably in his early twenties), walked into my office stealthily and closed the door behind him. I might have thrown a questioning glance at him, in response to which he blurted out (with no premeditation), his desire to seek advice from me on some issue which had been literally tearing him apart for a long time. This happened almost ten years ago.
I had known this boy for about a year; he had joined our law firm as an apprentice and I had specially put in a word for him to the management for his appointment. He had all along been a hard working and an honest person with a creative bent and for that, I had special admiration for him. However, lately, everyone in the office had started noticing a steep decline in his efficiency; he had become a perpetual late comer in the mornings and used to walk in to the office with a dazed look in his eyes and unkempt hair. Many a times, I had tried to find out if he was going through some difficult time in his personal life but he would always ward off my questions and try focusing on his work. That day when I saw him entering my office, I knew he had given up and had finally decided to seek my help.
- Anjali Chugh
Know yourself. Unfold the hidden power of your mind and set yourself rolling on the Path of Transformation.
We talked for about three hours and his problem, which was more on a psychological level, came as a piece of surprise to me. It took him quite a while to open up and speak coherently, as he seemed to unravel the entwined threads of his complex thoughts, while he spoke. His problem apparently was none other than OSHO and his ideologies. Poor guy had been reading the OSHO scriptures for more than a year and the ideology set forth therein, had left him completely disillusioned and disinterested in life. He was almost on the verge of renouncing the world and joining the ‘cult’. He revealed to me that his parents had been terribly worried on his account, in view of the decision he had taken for leaving the house. That was my first encounter with OSHO and, with due respect, it wasn’t that pleasant.
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OSHO Backdrop
From the inputs he gave me, I could gather that he was deeply inspired by the teachings of OSHO and the ‘path’ that was prescribed, therein, for ‘enlightenment’. He handed over to me, some books and magazines relating to this subject, and the material provided was good enough to keep me engrossed for another couple of hours. I was amazed to read the content which lent me an opportunity to have a sneak peak in the ‘self created’ world of OSHO. For the first time in my life, it had been brought to my knowledge that there existed a man who, so confidently and blatantly, denied the existence of God. To propagate ‘anti-God’ philosophy needed some kind of nerves and this man (OSHO) seemed to have surpassed all reasonable standards of ‘courage’ and ‘individual perception’. I tried digging deep into his background in order to find out the source and the reason behind his unconventional and unrealistic thought process.
Originally named Rajneesh, he was born in a Jain family and it is said that he had attained enlightenment at the age of 21 after which he spent most of his time in preaching devotees from India and Europe. His preaching relating to sexual freedom and contentment probably made him the most controversial spiritualist of his time. He had developed a new form of active meditation which was termed as ‘Active Meditation’. This required a person to start with strenuous physical activity (with an express permission to indulge in unlimited sex) followed by silence and celebration. He had developed such a mechanism with an idea of helping an individual to overcome repression, minimize his personal inhibitions and finally slip into a state of emptiness, which he called ‘enlightened state’. On attaining this state of mind, a person was supposed to have no past, no present, no future, no ego, no self, no attachment and on top of it …no mind. His ‘no mind’ theory was really intriguing. It slowly dawned on me why those hundreds and thousands of people, who called themselves OSHO devotees, blindly followed him and did as they were told; possibly it was the magic of ‘no mind’ philosophy. I strongly felt that those devotees, who left their families in lurch, had probably been brain washed to do so. What else could explain the phenomenon, wherein people, blindfold agreed with the theories propelled by a protagonist, and left their families under the belief that the near and dear ones were the root cause of all the suffering in their lives? Ironically, OSHO on one hand advocated the concept of ‘no family’ and on the other, subtly suggested that living amidst a group of unknown people could bring joy and contentment in the lives of suffering individuals. This explained why two stalwarts of Indian film industry (Vinod Khanna and Sanjay Dutt) renounced their career at a time when they were at the top and had no reasons to quit. More surprising was the fact that both of them eventually came back to the world which they had renounced, but after wasting precious 10-15 years of their lives. It forced me to think if OSHO cult was any better than an asylum for the weak, irresponsible and sex freaks.
Against marriage but not in favor of celibacy either
Where does your path lead to?
The most amazing fact which surfaced during my research on OSHO was that the people who joined the cult and lived as a part of that group for some years, had no clue what they were heading towards. I had a chance to come face to face in conversation with a man who was heralded as an ‘enlightened soul’ by the OSHO community. I spent almost an hour with him but he did not have answers to even the simplest of my questions. Possibly he was sitting in front of me with ‘no mind’ of his own. Trust me, I had to leave his place, totally disappointed and dissatisfied. What kind of spiritual path was this when the travelers / followers / seekers did not even know where they were going to or where they had come from? They seemed to live in an absolute vacuum. Perhaps that was the concept of enlightenment perceived by OSHO. Whatever said and done, I could not relate to such an ideology. Creating emptiness, in and around oneself could, in no way, be construed as enlightenment. In my terms, ‘enlightenment’ means ‘knowing’ rather than ‘not knowing’. It means ‘awareness’ rather than ‘ignorance’. Perhaps it’s an escapist attitude to find bliss in ignorance.
God does not exist
Do you agree with OSHO school of thought?
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Comments
I don't know if my aversion to cults comes from a past life, but even when I was very young, I was not easy to lure into cults while doing my spiritual explorations. Osho sounds like someone with an ego-not quite enlightened. Its amazing, how people make up stories about reality and spirituality, and call it the Truth and develop non thinking followers. I enjoy Adyshanti, Jed Mckenna, Mooji, all enlightened, very down to earth, and pretty blunt.
Enjoyed reading this hub on Osho!
CJ Stone: Yes, I also read about those 21 Rolls Royce he owned (supposedly gifted by his devotees). About the meaning of his name, some said it meant 'Ocean' whereas others thought that it was derived from a Japanese word for 'Master'. You're right about that 'irony' part. I guess the entire 'larger than life' picture created by him was full of such ironies. Thx very much for visiting this hub. Your comments mean a lot.
Violet Sun: Certainly it seems far from enlightenment and spirituality. I had the same problem since my childhood...aversion towards cults which are a personification of hypocrisy and double standards. Thx a lot for sharing your opinion here.
I have always thought of OSHO as a brilliant philosopher and have him as one of my top friends at Myspace. In relation to the video you have here with him talking about God surely it is only the Biblical God that he is making reference to? This does not mean that OSHO was not a believer in a divine force or spiritual matters but that he didn't agree with God as presented by the Bible and the other patriarchal religions. He is making a point about a finished creation and an evolving one. As I see it an evolving creation is by far a greater act of creation than a finished one (made in 6 days) and does not rule out in any way a divine creator as having brought it all into being.
I see him as a man who asked people to question things and to consider his opinions many of which make good sense to me.
I admit though that whilst preaching in a way against the control system and rigid dogma of the patriarchal religions and against the institution of marriage he replaced this with his own set of rules that controlled the lives of his devotees.
But I always liked him because of his great sense of humour and used to think of him as the comedian guru!
Although I must admit that I am very ignorant about OSHO but his philosophy doesn't surprise me. When I see so many westerners going to India or joining the various ashrams around the world then there could be broadly two reason one is that they are distressed and the second one is that they have already reached a saturation point as far as material bodily enjoyment is concerned. Now coming to the second point if I contrast that with so many Indians who don't have two square meals a day or have to control themselves till they get married then here is a person who says that enlightenment can't be achieved unless one reaches that saturation point since an artificial denying of these material bodily desires doesn't make an individual satisfied hence part of his philosophy of sexual permissiveness could be thought of as a way to reach the saturation point sooner to get over it and achieve enlightenment faster.
Thumbs up for a good thought provoking hub.
Bard of Ely:
Speaking against God and related stuff really doesn't matter to me. I call that an individual perception. So far so good. You know ...speaking about things like 'family is the root cause of suffering...stay away from them' seems to be coming more from a psychotic who might have had a twisted childhood, rather from a spiritualist. Possibly he had seen enough of turmoil in his own family but that gave him no right to change other peoples perception about the concept of family. I understand that certain incidents in life are such that they drastically alter the thought process of a person but that should not affect other peoples lives. Imagine what kind of a world he wanted to create, with no one having a family and everyone having the liberty to exercise sexual freedom, the way one wanted. He could manage such a huge following because he spoke with conviction about everything, right or wrong. I read somewhere that we humans have a tendency to get inspired by any damn thing provided it is spoken to us in loud and flawlessly clear terms. Most of the public speakers manage to connect with their audience only because of their power of speech and the art of blending words. And on top of it why wouldn't we worship a person who opens the doors of his house to us at a time when we already feel disillusioned about our lives. In the existing world we get such moments more often than never.
Thx very much for sharing your views. It is an honor to have you read my hubs.
Countrywomen:
That's exactly what he tried to do. 'Fill your appetite till you have nothing more to crave for'. I had first hand information about the manner in which New Year Eve's used to be celebrated in OSHO centers. One has to see to believe it. It's kind of hard to comprehend such lavish and unleashed environment in a spiritual center. That was his school of thought. Its our prerogative, however, to tow his line or turn our back. Thx very much for sharing your viewpoint. I highly appreciate your candidness.
OSHO is the type of belief used to control one with confusion and fear. The young man needs to try some of Wayne Dyers philosophies. Great article and a peek into another realm of the worlds varied religions...
Nancy's Niche: I guess you're right. I too had to brain wash him (lol) and that took me days, after that incident. Fortunately he got married a year later and migrated to Australia. Today he's settled with his beautiful wife and a pretty daughter. Imagine what could have been his plight had he joined the cult. Would have been another lost soul...
Thx a lot for visiting.
With regard to Osho's views on the family unit being a bad thing I can see what he meant. Now, I am not saying that all family units are bad but it is a fact that many unhappy and dangerously twisted people are a product of family upbringing where they have been abused badly by a parent or parents or taught to do something which is either wrong or harmful. In an ideal world (which we clearly don't have) all individual children could be seen as sons and daughters of God or individual spirits and would be a worldwide community sharing and helping each other for the benefit of all - a human family! Individualised families often cause big problems and Osho's concept of children having many parents by having all those in a community or commune would help stop abuse and incorrect instruction on those within it. In other words the children would be exposed to a wider variety of information and guidelines for living. I can see the value in this. I can also see that people from bad families can break away from their backgrounds and that just because a parent acted in some way does not mean that the child will follow the same way. It is a very complex matter for consideration but I can follow the logic Osho was putting forward.
It also happens that people from broken families or bad backgrounds can choose to identify other people who they are not related to by bloodline as their chosen parents.
Great hub as usual Anjali! I remember getting shocked at the ashram pics which used to sneak out now and then from the ashram at Poona. I have heard(dont know if it true) that he used to hypnotise his followers.His eyes are indeed so hypnotic(dont know whether I am being brain washed..lol)I still remember Vinod Khanna,who used to be my fav star,ditching his young wife and 2 small sons and going into the ashram where I beleive,he worked as a gardener!Great hub,Anjali.
Great hub Anjali - I live in Pune now and while I've admired a lot of what he has written, I see how today it's just one big luxury spa. No, I don't go along with all that he advocated but he was something! I've heard him speak and he could hold a huge audience ina spell. Hypnotism? I don't know - magnetic? yes!
Bard of Ely: I can see his point (of view) too but I guess he went a little far with it. Breaking away from abusive families is understood but most of the young crowd who got enticed with his 'freedom of mind and action' theory, found his cult a heaven as it meant freedom from social bindings and an escape route to a free world. Now that was the down side. Again, perceptions differ. As they say....'there is nothing wrong or right, only thinking makes it so'. Thx a lot for coming back.
Lalia: I remember when I heard about Vinod Khanna, I was too young to understand what exactly had happened. He was my favorite and if he would have been consistent in his career and not joined that cult, I am doubtful if Amitabh would have gained the title of 'Legend'. Same thing happened with Sanjay Dutt but due to the support of his father and his own hard work he could make up for the time he lost. Such can be the effect of hypnosis. I believe it mostly works with young people with volatile minds. Thx very much for visiting.
Shalini: I agree. Even I admired the content and style of his writing. He had 'something' for which people blindly followed him. He was certainly a magnetic personality. The question is... what did his school of thought lead a person to? Did he help people to find their way or did people end up being further confused? Anyone can find bliss in an environment which offers absolute freedom and no restrictions. What is the big deal? Thx a lot for sharing your views here.
Two more comments from me: yes, he does have hypnotic-looking eyes I agree- if you watch him closely you will see that he seldom blinks, however, this does not mean that he was actually practising hypnotism, and in the macrobiotic philosophy I believe it is a sign of good health. In Scientology it is a sign of being able to confront well and is something you drill in what is called TR0 so that scientologists who are good at this seldom blink when communicating with another. Blinking is a sign of not being sure about yourself.
That Osho allowed an anything goes approach to sex etc is similar to Aleister Crowley's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." That people are going to do whatever they please anyway cannot be denied in many cases in the modern world whereas telling them what they can and cannot do is bound to be a form of control or in religion it is dogma. Who is to say what is right or wrong for another individual? Of course all cultures have some form of rules and laws but not everyone will agree they are right.
I remember a bit on a record by hippy Neil of The Young Ones TV comedy series in which he says something like"Be free everybody, do what you like." And then rephrases it when someone starts annoying him with a horrible noise and says: "When I said do anything I meant anything but that." lol
Bard of Ely:
Hypnosis does not always involve conventional hypnotizing techniques. To me, it is as simple as convincing a person to do something which he might not otherwise do. Of course you need to strongly believe in your own conviction first before you try to put your point across. Regarding 'hypnotic eyes', I believe anyone can have those big and non-blinking eyes if one practices meditation and (pranic) breathing exercises for a very long time. Such exercises make the inner self so strong that the practitioner can make anyone go weak on his knees.
The last lines in your post reminded me of 'one liner' which I read a long time ago in one of the non-fictions by an English author. The entire book seemed to be hammering on how to 'program your mind and thought process'. She quoted many provocative instances in the book and tried to communicate that no matter how grave a situation might turn out to be, you need to tell yourself .."It does not matter" and move on. Would you like to know what she chose as a concluding statement in her book?
"....but some things really do matter." Ironical. Huh!
"Hypnosis does not always involve conventional hypnotizing techniques. To me, it is as simple as convincing a person to do something which he might not otherwise do." Yes, this goes on all the time from very many people but is not usually termed hypnosis. Anyone who is given a public platform to speak or perform on is likely to do it. I know that being on a stage gives a certain power of control anyway which is lost when the stage and microphone and lighting on you and expectation of the audience is removed. In the case of Osho I would say that most of the people who became devotees were already open to being controlled because they were looking for someone to give them answers and he did so. But isn't this how cults and religions so often work?
"....but some things really do matter." Ironical. Huh!" - yes, this made me smile! It reminds me of discussions on the nature of reality and illusion and those who say that nothing is real!
Bard of Ely: I don't think that we are in complete disagreement with each other (its healthy even if it was so). I agree (as I said earlier) its easy to control volatile and unstable minds. So, you are right in saying that he could control those who were willing to go for it. Again...who does not want to get freedom from shackles. Thx a ton for making me feel worth.
Dear Anjali,
With due apologies I'm quite stunned that how educated and open minded people like urself can take heresay as the gospel truth. First things first let me clear some misconceptions or rather untrue facts in your hub.Am sure it was out of ignornace rather than anything else.
First of all let me enlighten you that at no point of his life or his career was Sunjay Dutt even remotely connected to OSHO not even in several light years. The period you talk about in his career was related to his drug addiction and that came about when his mother Nargis Dutt was still alive and yet to begin her battle with cancer.
Once his mother lost the battle and sucumbed to cancer he virtually crumbled and hit the bottle and went worse into his drug addiction. It was for this that he would be hospitalised sometimes in Germany and sometimes in Mumbai.So like it or not Osho had nothing to do with his misery nor did Sunjay ever approach him for enlightenment.
Secondly at no point of time was Sunjay Dutt anyway near the top which would bring him in the same league as Amitabh Bachchan.Having said that let me return to Vinod Khanna who was indeed No.2 breathing down Amitabh's neck.But more than Osho it was the emergency and his close ties with Sanjay Gandhi that helped him to finish all competition and emerge the superstar in Bollywood.
By his own admission Vinod Khanna or Acharya Vinod Bharti( as he was christned)had a series of deaths in quick succession within a single year and that was what made him crumble and shatter within. Anyone in his shoes would become anchorless and Vinod Khanna was no exception.
But much as the world would like to believe it wasn't like he packed his bags and crept away in the middle of the night to take a flight and join OSHO then Bhagwan Rajneesh in USA. Far from it. He spent well over three years discovering Rajneesh and gradually became a part of his Ashram in Pune.Right through those three years Vinod Khanna would work through the week and either drive down or fly down to Pune over the weekends to unwind from the worldly pressures and seek solace within himself.
Incidentally Vinod Khanna did not need to knock on OSHO's door just for sexual gratification he could get an abundance of it anywhere anytime anyhow just at the snap of his fingers.Infact had Bhagwan Rajneesh not been forced to shift base and move to America Vinod Khanna would have stayed in Bollywood and maybe even become a superstar while continuing his pursuit of Bhagwan Rajneesh. But that was not possible when he moved out of the country. Driving to Pune on weekends to be with the Master was one thing but that could not happen when the base relocated to USA. Thus Acharya Vinod Bharti took the biggest decision of his life to put his career behind him and follow the Master. Like he himself said, "Compared to chosing between my career and following the Master there is no hesitation whatsoever because my career is too insignificant in comparison to being with Him!!"
-Apart from Vinod Khanna there were several directors and producers like Vijay Anand & Mahesh Bhatt who were charmed by Bhagwan Rajneesh.Infact back in the 70's it was quite fashionable for people to get curious to know what actually went on within the Osho Commune. To my knowledge the only others who had a brief spell were Protima Bedi wife of supermodel Actor-Kabir Bedi and his suffering girlfriend Parveen Babi.
Now to clear some prominent cobwebs and half baked illusions let me enlighten you that Rajneesh was at no point going around like a shepherd gathering his flock.Infact it was the other way round. Infact as a matter of principle he would have interested believers come to the Ashram on special occasions or weekends and it was only when he was sure that they were serious would he offer them space in his ashram.
Even those who came into the Ashram were discouraged to believe that they had earned a life membership but were there only till they were ripe enough to go back and lead a normal life.He would only ask them to wear the robe and his mala so that they would feel his presence always irrespective of where they were physically.
If you have the energy and the inclination I'd like to invite you to read my blogs on Osho at the following link:
http://acharyarajneeshtoosho.blogspot.com/
I shall be only to glad to clear any further doubts or misconceptions that you may have about Rajneesh not that he needs me to advocate his knowledge and learning.Nowhere has he promised anybody Nirvana or Instant Moksh.Time and again he says This is My Truth.it cud be your's it's for you to decide what and how much you want to imbibe out of it.
Regarding Sex & Nirvana the entire concept has been blown out of focus due to the sheer ignorance of people who would parrot other people's opinion and label it to him.
The bottom lime was Sambhog Se Samadhi Tak( From Sexual Gratification to Moksh) in layman language he would preach that anyone who has experienced Sex has actually knocked on the doorstep of Meditation..even if it was for a fleeting moment.Because in sex when you climax that point everything goes blank and a blanket of calm, peace and serenity prevails..Even if only for a fleeting moment and then you're back to being in the same surroundings.
What he preached was not reckless Sexual gratification but to use sex as a stepping stone to go to the higher plateau in life towards Moksh. What could happen to you during a sexual climax accidentally could be moulded so that Sex was not the gol in itself but just an instrument or stepping stone to higher levels of Nirvana through Meditation. Afterall Nirvana was an extended timeless climax without Sex.
Believe me this was just the very tip of the ice-berg as there was a lot lot more to Rajneesh than misunderstood Sex. My intentions were only to clear some of the clouds of misdoubt and nothing else. Either be sure of yourself else don't blame him for your insecurities.
Sorry if I've taken too much of your precious time to make my point.
The Lip:
Wow! That was a pretty long one and I believe the longest post I ever received in any of my hubs. It clearly shows how passionate and confident you are about this subject. Hats off!
Well, speaking of 'misconceptions' and 'insecurities' (as you put it), I don't think that my mind is clouded with any of these. As you said, everyone's 'Truth' is different, I don't think it would be proper if I try to impose my 'Truth' on others and vice versa. When we write articles, we only portray our perceptions, without intending to malign anyone, which is amply clear from the concluding lines of my hub. Let me try to summarize a few points...again... the way I see it.
1. In one of my replies to the posts above, I had already mentioned that such ideologies work more with volatile and unstable minds. When a person undergoes a rough patch in his life and finds no way out of his misery, such cults often seem as a refuge. I don't blame such people for behaving irresponsibly or for acting hopelessly fragile, as some situations can really be tormenting enough to make a person run away from the material world. Again, it's not only OSHO but several other cults / missions which have been thriving / flourishing because of weak and vulnerable minds. No one has forgotten another controversial figure....Dhirender Bhramachari, the yogic mentor of Indira Gandhi. I assume you know a lot about that too. If I start writing about him I'm sure his followers would even like to kill me. lol
2. About 'replacing Amitabh ..' I only referred to Vinod Khanna and there is no doubt about that. What he did to be on the top (as you stated) shouldn't be used against him as we all know who hasn't used such techniques to stay in the limelight. Unfortunately Show biz requires one to be manipulative and connected failing which survival is almost impossible. Even Amitabh was not far from these gimmicks. Coming back to OSHO, I mentioned the names of two actors with a purpose of conveying that even after spending a major chunk of their lives in the ashram, both of them returned; Vinod Khanna eventually joined politics and Sanjay came back to film world and 'underworld'. I never said that they went to the ashram for enlightenment. I only mentioned that they sought 'refuge' in there. This clearly means that they were confused and messed up at that point of time and OSHO offered them a place where they could be far away from the material world and bring peace to their chaotic minds. Speaking about drug addiction...I don't blame Sanjay Dutt for that. Some kids are too sensitive and fragile to take the emotional onslaught in life. You can't help it. That's the way they are.
3. I wrote this hub with an intention to bring out the definition of 'enlightenment' as put forth by OSHO. Simply put, he asserted more on 'no mind' and 'not knowing' as the sum total of 'spiritual advancement' whereas I strongly believe that 'enlightenment' should mean 'knowing' rather than 'not knowing'. If we go by his theory then each one of us is supposed to be an enlightened soul as we 'know nothing' about the cosmic mysteries. I feel OSHO should have promoted his cult more as 'Meditation and Yoga center' rather than emphasizing more on 'enlightenment' factor. Well, no one has a doubt about how relaxed (mentally & physically) one used to feel in his ashrams.
4. I don't blame his followers for believing in his 'Truth' as what he wrote and what he taught had a lot of conviction and logic attached. I might also say a lot of things with strong conviction but does that make me right in everyone's eyes? No it doesn't. Some will agree with me whereas a lot many will turn vindictive. That's the way we mature (spiritually)....by hit and trial. Who knows what is the complete 'Truth'! At least one thing is sure, no matter what I think and how much I know, I will never try to impose my 'Truth' on innocent and ignorant people around me.
And one thing more...my dad used to tell me that real yogis never give public appearances and media interviews. It's hard to find them even. Since you know so much about the subject, you would have definitely heard about the 'yogis' who attained 'Moksha' and vanished along with their physical bodies. They never left a trace behind.
Thx for taking out a lot of time for reading and assessing my hub. I appreciate.
I have skipped much of the later comments, as it is late, I am exhausted and they were long for the moment. So if I am covering something just covered, please allow. Also, this will probably be long, I apologize if people are in a hurry like I was. (I will come back and check out THE LIP) When I first heard of Osho, it was from my mother. I did not understand much, being a western teenager, but figured she knew what she was doing, and one day I would slow down my “Teenage life” and see what it was. But once I had heard some of the outside hype, about cults and brainwashing, I paid attention. Very close attention. I was going to research and protect my mom. I took some of her books on “Rajneesh”, and read them. Analyzed them. The first time I found something questionable I kept going. One needed to be well armed to be successful! LOL. After finding a pattern of strange extremist points, inter woven with some sensible ideas, I jumped up. Ahha! I went to confront her. She was startled by my intensity, but settled into a deep discussion with me. Over the next few months, I read so much Osho that I should have done a doctorate paper on him. He would say one thing in one place, in another place he would say something that would refute it, at least logically, the two points would not add up. After reading and listening to him speak on videos, I learned that he would use stories to make points. To help create an understanding. You talk in one way to one person, they get it. For someone else, you have to relate differently, to help them understand it. Thus what seems like conflicting stories, begins to make sense. When you start to understand his teachings as a whole, it all starts to make beautiful sense. I did not choose to become a sannyasin (one who devotes himself totally in spiritual pursuit), but instead chose to balance and take my own path. He totally encourages this as well. Whatever works for you. Some people need this, some people need that. It is so easy (especially for people with tendencies for western framework of thought), to take many of his dissertations, his stories or “points”, out of context. One cannot take anything he says too seriously. He didn’t. If you look at enough of his work, you will find this. The last big issue I that I had, was with the whole marriage thing. The child thing. He in no way was saying that people could not be a couple, to live and love from now till death. But it was a rare thing. So by confines of marriage one should not be trapped in a hopeless state. I could not imagine, continuing to live with my wife, if we were not still in love. And of the children? He did not advocate all parents dumping their children. Even with two loving parents, the entire community should put more into children. Extended family. And if the parents are so blocked in, that they would be horrible to their children, then yes they should go away. And if society were better suited to all children, this would not be such a problem. The last part took me very long to work out. But once I did, it made sense. He was not being extreme and saying people should abandon their kids, leave their spouse, that no one should take responsibility, but should not feel constrained to be slaves to a role. Many people are not suited for each other. Many people get married for the wrong reasons, or just change and are no longer suited. To stay together in this situation can be more harmful to children than not. And if society and people had their acts together, the children would not suffer direly for it. (in a nutshell.) As usual, taken out of context, by both those who wish to discredit him, and some of his weaker “Followers”. Cult. What kind or a term is this? Followers are just people. Some are flakes. Some are going through rough times. Some are right on the money. Some were a little off to begin with. What makes this so different from any church? Synagogue? Any organization? And what of his weaker followers? Could he fully integrate himself with them, evaluate each one personally? He turned away people who seemed to “High” on life. He wanted them to get a little grounded first. It was a normal process for many to go through. Some of his “Upper circle” started strange “cultish” activities. Any one can take things too far. Have you never met someone, knew them for a while, then seen them go through something drastic? Just because some of the people who chose to follow him had problems, didn’t get it, went off the deep end, does not mean that the majority did. Some of the people who followed him, are the most beautiful, well rounded people. Some are brilliant. Some are not. He did do a lot of good. He had an unorthodox style. And he was full of the dickens. If you have so much interest to go this far, either as a reader, or the writer, I ask that you have an open mind, look at things on the broader scale, and look into him further. He was amazing. If you have paid attention to what I have said, you will do so and not take him, everything that he says, or yourselves too seriously. (that must be the twinkle in his eye) I enjoyed the hub, though obviously taking issue with some of the slants, and liked the stir in the comments.
As for "Real Yogis"never giving public appearances? Real is a limiting term. True, almost all do not. Most go on with their individual path. But every once in a while, one sticks around to stir things up. It is their lot.
Paper Moon: Sorry there was a delay from my side in replying to your post. Most of your observations are similar to the ones made by Bard of Ely and I tried replying to those while responding to his post. If you find time please have a look at that as I don't want to get into repetitions. Further, as we all know, there is no wrong or right in a spiritual journey. Everyone's path is different...everyone's perception is different. So it does not really matter which way you take to find your destination. The ultimate purpose is the same. I wrote about certain things which I felt were not right but that's the way I see it. Even OSHO had said, "If you know me, you won't ask me who I am and if you don't....it does not make sense telling you as you will never understand." That was what he believed in. Some followed his path and some didn't. Not a big deal!
Thx very much for taking out that much time to read and comment here.
You seem to make light of it in your later comments, but you seem very negative and biting in your depiction of Osho. There are always those who take things wrong, go to extremes. Especially when you take into account how many people gravitated to him. As a manager on my job, I see this all of the time. It does not matter how you get there, as long as you do. But just because this is not your way, does not necessitate your negativism unless it comes from lack of understanding, or just for sensationalism. I myself did not follow Osho, but did like much of what I saw in him. I came to understand him, and have respect for him.
Thank you for posting this and creating a forum.
Dear Anjali
I have gone through your statements and conclusion about Osho. I would request you to listen some of his discourses. I believe that this will clear some of your doubt. I recommend 'Dekh Kabira Roa','Sambhog Se Samadhi' and 'Khrisna Smiriti'.
You will agree that he alwaya gave logic to support his statements and many of his logic are unquestionable. He was not only a spritual leader but had a vision for future India. What he talked in 1970 was adopted by India in late 1990s. We may further discuss after getting feedback form you.
Last but not the least, he always said that he did not want to make a cult and he always emphasize on thinking and reasoning over following.
Rohit: I'll try to check that out first. I'm sure it should be available on the internet. Thx for sharing your valuable insight. We'll talk soon.
I love talks given by OSHO. They are practical advice to the spiritually inclined trying to balance a material and a spiritual life. Philosophy and sprituality cannot be explained to the scientific minded. If you read the vedas or try to follow any guru ,- even buddism - the only way to realization is thru no mind.
I hope you take time to reflect on his talks rather than form an opinion based on rationalization.
Kirthi: I don't at all rationalize things. In fact I'm a strong believer in 'no mind' theory (leading to enlightenment). Possibly, I have a different approach to 'spirituality' and 'enlightenment' but then it's quite normal to have a diffrent opinion even if it might not be in concurrence with renowned gurus. As they say everyone has his own path of spiritual awakening; perhaps mine is different from Osho. Who knows who's right! :) I appreciate your thoughtful comments. Please feel free to come back.
Dear Anjali
I have gone through the various observations on OSHO. I think most of the observations are not correct fully. For example, joining of the "cult" is not true. Osho repetitively said that he does not believe in cult and does not propagate one. He always criticizes all the cults. If you listen to his discourses, you will hear that he says this with example. He said that all the religions and its text are not the real 'Dharma' that were intended by its master. For example the way we interpret 'Bible' is not the way it was told by Jesus.
He always said that these masters were never accepted by the people around them. Jesus was crucified; Buddha was rejected by Hindus so and so forth. The common point with these great masters was that they were unorthodox in their approach; they always stood against the prevailing norms of the society. It is only after elapse of good period of time people acknowledge the righteous of the saying of these maters. To me all these were visionary. I place Osho as great visionary.
The beauty with Osho was that he talks not only of spiritual upliftment of the human being but has clear understanding of the contemporary issues. His commentaries on Gandhi and the way forward for India’s economic development are worth listening. He always advocated the free economy and capitalization. You can appreciate that we imbibe the same in late nineties which he was telling in seventies.
His commentaries on Geeta are another masterpiece.
There is general misconception about his emphasis on sex. I would recommend that all his discourses on sex ‘Sambhog se Samadhi Tak’ should be listened before coming to any conclusion. He explains the reason why people are sexual, why they have become perverted in sex.
Rohit: I'm glad to see you again here. You had suggested 'Sambhog Se....' earlier as well but I couldn't find it in the stores. I know I should have made a little more effort but the problem is lack of time. I can't comment on that until I hear the audio. Thx again for sharing your views.
i just wanted to add... OSHO was a fraud, a self declared GOD who taught how to be confused and let other people rule over you. he was a disgrace to indian culture and cultures hard work. shame on him. he died of aids and blamed US for poisoning him.
many indians knew what his "selfish mind" was upto, because of which he ran to US to take advantage of what LSD did to the young minds there!!! wherever he is, may he get what he deserves.
just wanted to add.. @rohit
i dont think i 'l visit this page again cause i m just surfing around..
but try and get to a conclusion on "osho's" literature.
u will never... cause he talks in loops..
he was a teacher of psychology from jabalpur university from where he was chucked out, god knows why. he was a poor marwadi who wanted to make it big.
he will say +1 and then the -1, as is nature. so basically he never has a point so he can never go wrong.
a psychology which he exploited.. talking in a beautiful language is not the only quality a master should have..
now will you say he was right? or he was wrong?
or he was right being wrong? always saID HE WAS WRONG SO THAT NO ONE "ELSE" can say that?
people like him and froyd are a disgrace who spoiled most relations. even moms are afraid to love their children now.
what a shame!
better read vivekanand, that great soul knows how and what to teach.
thank you. :) peace
in sanskrit there is a saying
Sabda jaalam Mahaaranyam,
Chitta Bhramana Kaarakam,
Atah prayatnaa gjnatavyam, Tattvagjnaa
ttattva maatmanaha."
"My dear seeker," warns Sankara, "words are hypnosis. Words are a
dense forest. Try entering them without adequate preparation
and you are sure to lose your way and sanity. If you
are serious about learning, do not get lost but seek
the guidance of a teacher who is 'aware'."
where the guru was OSHO himself.. i hope u see my point..
thank you anjali, my message was kinda fragmented but i couldn't resist. thanks alot :)
tvashta: Finally here's someone who agrees with me. I admire your courage and candidness, especially, about the mother & son relationship (you mentioned). Bravo! I found out more than a decade ago that his so-called teachings had no conclusions; it just caused further confusion. As you said when there is no derivation there can be no scope of judging any theory as right or wrong. He was clever enough to push the vulnerable minds into a whirlpool of confusion and he ensured that they stayed there and finally lost their purpose completely, one day. In my opinion, his teachings did more harm than good, whether some people agree or not. Thx for voicing your thoughts here. It's commendable.
Deal Anjali
I am aghast to see the comment of Tvastha on Osho. I do not think if she/he think herself/himself more knowledgeable or experience than emenient men like Lal Krisha Advani, K R Nararayana, Preetish Nandi, Gyani Jail Singh, Abdul Kalam, Kushwant Singh and many other who has praised Osho as the philosopher and great thinker. One American critic went to say that OSHO was the most dangerous man after Christ.
The conclusion of Osho teaching and for that matter any enlighten man, be it Buddha, Mahivira, Christ or Mohammed is the same. The god is nowhere it is within you.
Tvastha comment on the mother and son relationship is premature and does not reflect what Osho tried to tell.
He said the serving is not religion but religion is serving. Again his religious man definition was far from the dogmatic notion we have about the religious man.
To make it short, I will also recommend to Tvastha to hear his discourses to clean her/his mind.
Sorry Anjali
To send this rejoinder to my recent comment on Tvastha's observation.
This is my personal experience that our perception of any thing are not eternal.This depends on the environment in which we are seeing the thing. I, alike many commner, held same profane view about Osho till 2 years ago when somebody gave some of his audio to me.To me he was a 'Sex Guru'. That was what he was projected.
But at the same time people like Krishnamurti held in very high esteem. Poet like Sumitra Nandan Pant had a good conversation with this 'Sex Guru'.
This had a chain reaction, I started listening more and more of his discources. The more I listened to it the more I was mesmerised by his itellect, wisdom, clarity and vision.
He was much ahead of his time. Historically, it had happened with all visionaries, they were seldom accepted by their contemporary fellows. To remind all of us, should I mention the name of Socratese,Galaleo,Christ,Buddha,Mahivira so and so forth.
We are independent to have our views but it is great unjustice to pass a judgement on other.
This is news to me that Osho died of AIDS.
Why this blog is dead for so long
Robin: Thx for creating ripples in the water. :)
WOW, WHAT A BLOG ,, I WAS SMILING READING SOME OF COMMENTS, THIS WHOLE WORLD SO UNIQUE , UNIQUE WITH INDIFFERENT PEOPLES AND THATS MAKES THIS WORLD SO BEAUTIFUL. IF IT IS SAME EVERYWHERE OR THEIR IS REPITATION THEN ONE CAN IMAGINE HOW BORING IT WILL BE. tO TALK OF OSHO HE LIVE THAT UNQUINESS AND ADVOCATE FOR IT. i HAVE ALSO HEARD MANY OF HIS DISCOURSES AND I TELL U ITS WORTH LISTENING TO THEM. EVERY PERSON IS UNIQUE BUT WHEN HE TRIES TO BE SOME BODY MAY BE TENDULKAR, GANDHI, OR OSHO RAJNEESH TAHT PERSON TENDS TO LOSE HIS IDENTITY AND WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM HIS DISCOURSES HE WAS REALLY AGAINST TO BE SOMEBODY. HE HIMSELF SAID IN MANY OF HIS DISCOURSES NOT TO FOLLOW ANYONE INCLUDING HIMSELF(OSHO) ,JUST EXPLORE USELF WITH IN USELF AND THEIR U FIND BLISS AND WAY TO DO IT IS MEDITATION. KEY POINT IN HIS EVERY TALK IS TO ATTRACT EVERY ONE TOWARDS MEDITATION, SO THAT THEY CAN KNOW WHO THEY R ,WHAT R THEIR UNIQUENESS ETC. PEOPLE MUST NOT HAVE A HABIT OF BELIEVING BUT A HABIT OF KNOWING. BUT THIS WORLD IS SO VAST SOME TIME U HAVE TO BELIEVE, LIKE IF SOME ONE SAYS HUMAN FLESH IS MOST TASTEFULL THAN EITHER WE EXPLORE IT OURSELF OR BELIVE THAT CANNIBAL. BUT TO KNOW USELF U DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE SOMEBODY ELSE, MEDITATION IS A WAY TO KNOW WHAT WE R WITHIN , SO OSHO IS VERY GOOD IN DOING SO, BUT HE HAVE ENCOUNTER MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE , SO HE TALK DIFFERENTLY TO EVERYONE BUT HE NEVER MISS A KEY POINT OF MEDITATION FOR EG IF SOMEBODY HAS GONE TO LEFT THAN WE HAVE TO BRING HIM FROM LEFT ONLY TO CENTRE POINT , TO RIGHT FROM RIGHT, TO NORTH FROM NORTH ETC ETC WHAT IMPLY FOR LEFT GOER DOESN'T IMPLY OR RIGHT AND OSHO I FIGURE OUT IS VERY GOOD IN THAT, YES THATISWHY HE SEEMS SO CONFUSING AND THAT ALSO IS GOOD IF U SEE IT IN THIS WAY THAT HE IS HELPING TO GET OUT OF OUR SHELL AND SEE WORLD AS IT IS NOT AS WE ASSUMES IT, HELPING TO CREATE MORE BROADER VISION. AND ANJALI U NOT GETTING HIS AUDIO DISCOURSES IN ANY STORE AT UR PLACE. PLEASE VISIT TORRENTZ.COM, AND TYPE OSHO IN THAT SEARCH AREA AND U WILL FIND MANY DISCOURSES THEIR INCLUDING SAMBHOG SE SAMDHI TAK. IF U STILL FIND IT DIFFICULT THEN THIS BLOG IS THEIR AND I HAVE ADD IT TO MY FAVROUTES AND I WILL PERSONALY EMAIL THEM TO U IF U LIKE.ANYWAYS ITS GOOD BEING HERE AND WISH EVERYONE A GOOD.
Jimmy: It gives me immense pleasure to see people taking interest in this Hub. It does not matter if their views do not synchronize with mine; the key element is perception. As you said it's interesting to see how different people can have differing perceptions but that's what makes this world the way it is. I would be really grateful if you e-mail me the link to Sambhog Se....I tried looking for it on the internet but I couldn't find it. It would be nice of you if could help in getting access to the audio / video. Thx very much for your kind words.
HELLO TO ALL
ANJALI U HAVE TO DO A FOLLOWING:-
1. DOWNLOAD SOFTWARE UTORRENT. U WILL GET IT EASILY ON http://www.utorrent.com/ .IT IS VERY SHORT FILE ,GET DOWNLOAD VERY QUICKLY.
2. THEN JUST COPY PASTE THIS LINK I.E. http://www.monova.org/details/2173520/SPIRITUALITY IN YOUR BROWSER.
3. THEN JUST CLICK ON "Download via usenet!" U WILL SEE IT THEIR.
4. WHEN U CLICK ABOVE ONE VERY SMALL FILE WILL BE SAVED ON UR SAID PATH.
5. THEN OPEN UTORRENT SOFTWARE THAT U HAVE DOWNLOADED FIRST. JUST CLICK "ADD TORRENT" IN THAT SOFTWARE. IT WILL ASK U FOR FILE LOCATION, JUST BROWSE IT WHERE U HAVE SAVE THAT ONE TINY FILE WHILE CLICKING ON "DOWNLOAD VIA TORRENT"
DOWNLOAD WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY STARTED.
THEIR R MANY DISCOURSES IN THAT FILE INCLUDING 'SAMBHOG SE SAMADHI TAK' BUT I MUST TELL THAT FILE WILL TAKE TIME TO DOWNLOAD AS IT IS OF 3.8 GB.BUT IF U HAVE FAST INTERNET, IT WILL BE DOWNLOADED IN FEW HOURS. AND ONE THING MORE , WHEN U ADD THAT FILE IN UR TORRENT SOFTWARE , IT WILL SHOW U A LIST OF DOWNABLE FILES IN THAT, JUST DE SELECT THOSE WHICH U DO NOT WISH TO DOWNLOAD,, THEN IT WILL IT GET DOWNLOADED VERY QUICKLY.
OK THEN BYE BYE, TAKE CARE
anjali i have posted links in here yesterday,,but i m not seeing them here,,hope u got it, let me know
and i don't have ur email address
Jimmy: I got your links. Thx for taking that much effort. I'll try to download the file over the weekend as you said it would take a few hours to do so. Regarding my e-mail id, you can send me e-mails by clicking on 'Contact anjalichugh' tab just below my picture (above..right corner). Thx again. Take care.
Interesting forum, thanks for creating it. Enjoed reading "Paper Moon's" long comment. Basically here is one man (Osho) who stood up fearlessly against all the crap in our humanity and it's sad to read comments as from "tvashta". Being such a prolific speaker Osho could have been sitting in India all his life and expoiting gullible followers, instead he fought unjustice and stupidity of this world with his peaceful logic till his last breath. Most people just can't think outside the box, and one certainly needs that in order to start understanding osho, however he spoke such simple language that sometimes i'm surprised how some people just don't get it and write big articles or even book discrediting osho. Probably some of them got paid to do that as US needed to cover up what they did to Osho. Poor guy (mentioned in the beginning of the article) reading osho and working for a law firm in US (I assume in US) is a hard thing to do...Not sure what hard working honest lawyer means and if it's actually possible...The law firm exists certainly not to find out what the truth is......
JC Junior: Thx for being a part of this forum and sharing your views here. I understand... law firm has nothing to do with finding the truth. I believe my focus was on the young boy and not on the law firm. This hub was based on a solitary incident which occurred some years ago. I felt I could talk about as I was a part of it to some extent. I saw that boy going through a psychological upheaval and only I know how he managed to get back to his normal self. You can say that the boy had some difficulty understanding & interpreting the Osho philosophy but I'm sure you would know that there were countless youngsters who just got swept off their feet by his 'prolific speeches' (as you stated). When you have a gift (of speech, writing etc) you got to use that responsibly. He should have known that 'his truth' could be misconstrued by people who are not mature enough to handle it. Thats all I wanted to say in this hub.
I'm glad the forum still alive. The fact that the boy had difficulties understanding Osho can only be judged (don't like to use this word, but what to do...) by someone who experienced/understood this extraordinary man. Maybe the boy was close to something and was rebelling deep inside against his conditioning, maybe by practicing meditaion he did have a glimpse of something totally unknown to him...who knows...but the world is always full of "do gooders" who are always ready to help without really knowing whether they are helping or not. I'm not implying this is the case here, but just a thought. My first encounter with Osho happened 10 years ago, being deeply rooted christian i was having arguments with the person who was somehow familiar with Osho on matters of creation and god, being unable to win arguments against me mostly due to my strong ego and this person's lack of eloquence i was just given a book to read and boy… did I get a shock treatment....But, my christian conditioning didn't just die easily, every time i would try to discuss osho's views with any of my friends I was attacked, laughed at or simply called crazy. Well, after doing some "proper research" such as watching documentaries by National Geographic or BBC "The God that Fled" and other crap with titles like "The Lost truth of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh" or "What really happened" blah, blah, blah....reading sources like wikipedia or article like from Christopher Calder how Osho was a "drug addict" and used "hypnosis"...all presenting osho as most ruthless indian guru, sexual pervert, etc, etc, etc,...mass media never lacks vocabulary when it comes to things like that, especially if strongly supported by the government. Anyhow, I managed to sustain resistance against my "friendly" and "all knowing crowd" for about two years and then gave up thinking, yeah, i must be wrong...and of course to support myself i started paying attention only to those "negative" stories...Anywho...took me about 8 years to get back to osho again after so much reading on Buddhism, reincarnation, studies of near death experiences, psychology, reading guys like Krishnamurti, Vivekananda, Ramana Maharshi and always intentionally avoiding Osho being convinced that it's definitely a wrong path...but one day I accidentally started reading his book on the internet without actually being aware that it's his book, but all my intellectual chaos all of a sudden started making some sense to me while reading his book.(in fact it wasn't really his book, it was "Autobiography of Spiritually Incorrect Mystic", of course Osho never wrote any autobiography in fact he never actually wrote any book as most of you know). This time i went deeper into finding out who this man Osho really is...Outcome: He's one of the greatest souls ever born...One just has to look more into who he was and how he lived, not just from wikipedia, national geographic documentaries or other mass media sources who are nothing but corporate/gov puppets. Read couple of his books on the subject that interests you the most, just listen to what he is saying and how he is saying it, look into his eyes, don't you people see how unique this man is? Sorry for the long story, to me Osho in religion is like Tesla in electricity and science, way ahead of his time, but the future will settle this matter, it’s inevitable… I hope the young man who was the cause of this thread will be strong enough not to listen to "helpers" and go his own way...!!!!
Dear Anjalichugh, when i made a comment about law firm and truth i meant truth of any particular court case or legal matter :-) not existential truth seeking...Also I would say Osho never had any philosophy, he simply spoke on what is, backing everything up logically and using a lot of contradictions, perhaps confusing to some people, but maybe one day someone will discover a better way to convey inexpressible, the problem that every mystic that decides to speak has to face....
Hello to all,,,, its really interesting to read J C junior. But one thing i must add about philosophy is that philosphy is something which u haven't experianced but only have some imaginery conclusion of some fact for e.g. sweet pudding lies in front of some person in sweet shop and that person while standing on outside that shop have a peak on that pudding and start imagining abt taste of pudding without actually tasting it and start telling his friend abt its taste. so whatever he will be telling to his friends is a philosphy. Now the other point,,,if he would have actully tasted that pudding, he comes to know abt his actual taste. But now if he tell his friends abt its taste, he is actually expressing 'pudding' taste, now it isn't philosphy. Bcoz now he actualy tasted it. But problem is what ever you have experianced can't be told in words. Words never disclose actual experiance, yes they can be indicative but they are just indication ,just like an pointed finger towards moon not actual moon. So when experianced person is describing some thing ,,other person may beleive him or took it as philosphy which is quite obvious. And in such case both person are right in their stand. But believing is as wrong as not believing. One must be experimentle. If some person is telling something to u ,,try to know it by experiancing it rather believing or not believing it. Who so ever is saying to believe is like enemy. And what i have listened from osho ,,he never tell his listener to believe him ,,he wants every listener to be experimentle. He wants every listener to come out of their shell and see world beyond.But world is so vast u can't take experiance of everything,,, but one can know abt his inner self ,that is in our hand,,without believing other abt themselves. So if u think believing is knowing ,,,it never would. And osho is against such "knowing".
JC Junior / Jimmy: I really appreciate your showing interest in this hub and being so passionate about OSHO. I should be grateful to both of you to have kept this forum alive and considered it worthy enough to make it a ground for a healthy discussion. I liked that expression ..'be experimental' (in Jimmy's post). It does make sense and then there's no harm in doing it. After all, the life we live is spent mostly in experimenting. Thx again guys. Feel free to come back.
osho is my best
Guru: I respect your views. Thx for stopping by.
Dear Anjali,
It's indeed a pleasure to see that you've kept this hub alive five months down the line since I first connected with you.Am in no way surprised that you chose to keep only one of my rejoinders and did away with the rest.Cannot blame you for that.It's your hub and it's for you to decide what you want to display and what you wanna delete.I don't think you owe me any answers.
While everyone is entitled to his opinion and I respect that absolutely I do take strong offense to the unwarranted comments made by Tvastha and what is sadder you actually endorse his views only encouraging further muck throwing.
I don't know if I'm more saddened or actually feel sorry for the likes of this person who when he cannot put across his viewpoint logically starts throwing muck at OSHO hoping some of it will stick.
Can he or anyone who praises his views in print say on what basis he makes those unfounded and rather baseless & atrocious allegations about OSHO. What is his source when he squeaks that OSHO died of AIDS.Have some shame before churning out such Crap.
Why do I get a feeling that Tvastha actually happens to be a frustrated former Rajneeshite who dropped out and is now pelting his stones in the air to vent his frustration.If that is indeed the case I'll understand the reason for his senseless wrath n the bitter acrimony that spills out of his poison tongue.
A lot has been said and heard on your hub and I'd not like to add anything further except to say that everyones TRUTH maybe different but that does not make the next persons truth any lesser.
If you don't like what the Master has to say just toss his Bible away and move on with your life.Why feel cheated or short changed.Afterall he did not promise you the moon.He gives you his interpretation never does he say this is the ultimate truth.He says this is his truth & he invites you to look into it and discover your own truth.
To wrap up all I'd like to say is that OSHO RAJNEESH is like a mirror that reflects what comes infront of it.If you don't like what you see in the mirror, it is for you to introspect within and if that is too painful a process then seek your own mirrors in the journey called LIFE.
When the postman gets you news you don't like do you grab him by the neck? similary if you don't like what you see in the mirror why go about stoning the poor mirror?
I may not agree with a lot of what you have to say but none the less I admire you for the honesty with which you plunge yourself into the Ocean from the deep end willing to test the water and that which lies beneath with grace and dignity.
Pleasure to hear from you always even if our thoughts maybe at tangents atleast there is no contempt as you know how to respect another's viewpoint like a civilised and educated person that I can feel you actually are.
Take Care,
THE LIP SHANDIL
The Lip:
"A lot has been said and heard on your hub and I'd not like to add anything further except to say that everyones TRUTH maybe different but that does not make the next persons truth any lesser..."
Very well said! In fact that is the sum & substance of any belief / philosophy / religion or spirituality as a whole and that is what makes us tolerant to varied views / opinions. You said it all in just one sentence. I deeply appreciate and admire your potential to summarize the entire theory of 'connecting with Higher Self' in a few lines. It's an honor to have learned people (like you) to show interest in my hub which (you can see) has become a platform for sharing views on OSHO, over a period of five months. Thx so much for offering your incredible insight here.
Believe me Anjali the pleasure is truly mine. No matter which path you may chose to take in our heart we both know that what we ultimately seek is Salvation/Nirvana.
If you can afford it you drive down in a Merc while I trudge along alowly on the Highway.But we both know we are heading in the direction that leads to our goal.
That is what makes the journey more memorable than actually reaching there itself..Who knows the Truth maybe in the journey itself rather than on reaching the end of the road?
Thanks for your lavish compliments. But I'm nothing more than what you choose to see in me.
Thanks None the less,
THE LIP
The LIP: I totally agree. We follow our individual paths but reach the same destination so it doesn't make sense proving the other wrong. All we need to do is to bow before God who resides in each one of us. God bless.
HELLO TO ALL!!!!!!! AND ANAJLI !! HOW R U? MUST BE FINE. I MUST TELL U I M NOT AT ALL PASSIONATE ABOUT OSHO. YES I LIKE HIM AS WHATEVER HE TALKS MAKE SENSE.HIS TALKS ARE REALATED TO SOME OF MY EXPERIANCE AND WHATEVER IS NOT UNDERGO MY EXPERIANCE , I TAKE THEM AS AN EXPERIMENT AND TRY TO EXPERIANCE THAT AND WHEN I EXPERIANCE THAT THEY BECOME PART OF MY BEING. I ALSO TAKE HIM AS FRIEND BECOZ SOME OF HIS TALKS HELP ME GET OUT OF ILLUSION ABOUT MYSELF ,,,LIKE I USED TO THINK MYSELF AS VIRGIN BUT HIS ONE of DISCOURSE MAKE ME REALISE ,,VIRGIN IS NOT A ONE WHO HAVEN'T DONE INTERCOURSE BUT ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK OF SEX. SO WHEN SEXUAL ENERGY TRASFORM INTO DIVINITY ,,SEX IN THOUGHTS ALSO STOP AUTOMATICALLY,,, SO IT YET TO HAPPENS TO ME AND I CAME TO KNOW WHERE I STAND AND PATH TO INNER SELF IS STILL GOING ON,,,,SO THIS THING I LEARNT FROM HIM TO GO ON AND ON UNTILL U REACH ULITIMATE DESTINATION. AND I HAVE A LEARNING ATTITUDE ,SO LEARNING IS ON GOING PROCESS FOR ME AND I LEARN FROM EVERYONE BE IT OSHO, OR ANYONE ELSE, IF ONE KEEP HIS EYES AND MIND OPEN EVERY MOMENT GIVES SOMETHING TO LEARN, SOMETHING TO EXPERIANCE.
FIRT WE NEED TO KNOW OURSELF ,THEN WE CAN BE ONE WITH GOD,,,,PLZ DON'T TELL PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT GOD IS WITHIN,, ENCOURAGE USELF AND OTHERS TO EXPERIANCE IT RATHER BELEIVING IT, BE EXPERIMENTAL ALWAYS.DON'T FOLLOW ANYONE ,,,JUST SEE USELF INSIDE WITH THE HELP OF MEDITATION
AND GET A TASTE OF DIVINITY.
The LIP:As i am a stranger to you but evrey thing I accept
regarding Rajneesh but I don't understand one thing.He always said that he wants to fill this earth by luxury and richness.Now he spent his life in utter luxury with the help of his discipiles.It's OK .All of them loved there Master and financial help was nothing in their eye.But from where those discipiles were earning money?and Rajneesh created a luxurious word around him so that only people having enough riches can only join his commune.What about the poors?People like Vimal kirti(Son of king of germany),vinod khanna,and all rich from each nook and corner of world join him because they don't have to think about there earnings.ordinary person couldn't joined.Is this no mind is only for riches According to rajneesh?I will be obliged if you reply to this.
Dear Bharat..thanks for the interesting observations that you made which can come from an observing and open mind.Time and again this question was raised by outsiders even during his life-time and were put to rest by OSHO himself.
The question that you have raised is on two levels and thus I'll break my reply also into two parts so that you get a clear vision to dispel the doubts and answer your question in detail,
The basic principle that OSHO put across time and again was that you can keep talking and talking but until you did not get into the drivers seat and start the engine and change gears you could never get the car moving. He would always say time and again you can never learn how to swim by sitting on the banks of the river and observing.You cud spend your entire live sitting on the banks watching people how they dived into the water how they swam but you would still not know the basics of swimming leave alone mastering it. To learn how to swim you had to take the plunge yourself into the water and he warned you would also go down but after the moment passed you would surface again and the moment of going down and then surfacing woud be your moment of truth...It's these moments of truth that had to be extended so that your life became one big MOMENT-of Salvation or NIRVANA.The message always was that if you want to swim and enjoy it then you should alkso be prepared to get wet. You cannot desire anything without the consequences that came with it.
When OSHO Rajneesh says he wants to fill the world with Pleasures and Richness people equate that to his wanting to fill his personal coffers and increase his own bank balance which is not the truth.Yes Rajneesh wanted to fill the world with Richness and pleasures but why does a whopping bank balance alone mean richness or is pleasure just restricted to SEX? Richness & Pleasure for a child is not richness n pleasure for a grown up man as it isn't for a person growing old(not in body but in mind too).
Pleasure n Richness keep changing with a persons growth which is believed to be every 5 years in a woman and every seven years in a man.It is called a biological cycle. If you observe your own life you will notice that your taste tends to change on this cyle of evolving.
So to assume that Richness and Pleasure automatically means Economic advancement or gratification of the flesh is having a limited and narrow vision.Agreed richness and pleasure do constitute what you have stated but what Rajneesh wanted to say time and again was don't be a frog in the well look beyond and you shall find a pond enjoy it but don't stagnate because there is a river waiting for you and beyond that an ocean.
So after a stage you have to move on to experience the next richness and pleasure not cling on to the last one.The Master would always say that only a satisfied person can move on to the next level.If your're not satisfied the frustration will keep haunting you.Even when you meditate your attention will get diverted.If your body is empty your mind can never be full.
You can ask a person who has a stomach full to leave food and he would consider fasting but you ask a beggar to fast telling him how good fasting is for the soul he would end up slapping you thinking you were making fun of his condition. So it is of prime importance to have had it enjoyed it and then left it behind and moved on.So that you don't keep looking back over your shoulder.Which is what most of us keep doing in life.
Even in regard to Sex where he has been least understood by the world at large Sex is just a means to move further in your journey and not the destination.That's what 'Sambhog Se Samadhi Tak is all about. The pleasure may be found in Sex but eventually you shall observe that the pleasure is not in the Sex itself but the Orgasm which is a split second of Samadhi, Time and again he would drill that enjoy Sex so that you grow over it and rise not drown in it and get lost in it.
If a moment of pleasure can give you soo much satisfaction imagine what pleasure your mind would get even without having to copulate? The state of mind during an orgasm is the same as that when you go into meditation In both cases it is sheer bliss.While orgasm gives momentary bliss samadhi gives extended bliss.Alas people fail to go beyond the Orgasm and end up getting addicted to Sex as a drug to have their moments of pleasure injected into the body giving the mind flashes of the salvation dose not realising that an ocean of pleasure awaits them beyond.
Now let me tell you that Vinod Khanna and other's were just as ordinary as the next disciple in the Rajneesh Ashram and not treated like VIP's.Incase you did not know Vinod Khanna the number 2 actor in Bollywood transformed into Acharya Vinod Bharti who was the personal gardner in the Ashram and he was more than glad to do that just so that after a hard day's work he could be at the feet of his master and enjoy the bliss of hearing the master speak which was something not everyone was destined for.
Mind you it wasn't as though Vinod Khanna was the poster boy of Rajneesh far from it.How many of you know that Vinod Khanna was never welcomed with open arms into the Ashram.It took him three long years of constant weekend visiting before the Master was convinced that here was someone who was'nt going to leave in a hurry.Proof of it was that so many of his inner circle be it Parveen Babi,Mahesh Bhatt,Goldie Anand,Pritish Nandy, Protima Bedi joined the Ashram but eventually dropped out on the wayside as they were not used to being treated like anything else but celebs and the down to earth experience shattered their egoes so they backed off.But not Vinod Khanna.He was determined to stay.Wonder if you are even aware that Geetanjali Khanna(Vind Khanna's wife then)also visited the Ashram for almost three months with her husband just to see for herself what fascinated her hubby to Rajneesh before she dropped out.
So it is a misconception that only the rich were welcome.That was a myth.Everyone was welcome but not as though it was a luxury resort but only if you were there for serious business and not just seeking never ending pleasure.
Before signing off I wud like to thank Mr Bharat for finding me suitable to dispel his doubts.Shud he want to know more he can have my Blogger link to OSHO-"My God Died Young to have my personal insights on the great experience.
Regards,
THE LIP
The LIP: I want to express my gratitude to you for answering the questions of one of the visitors on this hub. It might seem unnecessary but I felt obligated to do so. Thx very much.
Hello everyone,,
One of the great misconception about the rich,luxary life of osho is that the money came as a donation from disciples all around a world,,,or income from various work generated in ashram like painting, carpaintering, gardening etc etc. Yes few of items manufactured in ashram get sold,,,but one can imagine how much one can generate income from such activities.
So question arose in my mind also that from where so much money came for luxary and the answer is, it came from osho books which get published in around 70 countries. I do not remember exact number of his book published but it is over 500 i think. So if someone's one book get published and royalty comes from that is enough for his luxary living. One can imagine now how much money could be arrived by so many books published and that too in different languages and in 70 countries. And osho rajneesh doesn't have any personal account or single possession in his name.All wealth was a property of ashram.If anyone has doubt search net or visit oshoworld.com and read his biography which is also experted from his discourses
Very intriguing topic. Little did I know that the actual hub was only a taste of what was to come in the comments.
Well done Anjali:)
Jimmy: Thx for adding to the info.
StevenCavendish: Thx so much Steven but I would like to share the 'Trophy' (lol) with all the visitors who stepped in and made this hub worthy of appreciation by sharing their in-depth knowledge about this subject. Kuddos to all of them!
Dear Anjali,
Ur greatness reflects in the very fact that you believe in sharing and ur upbringing reflects in small but meaningful gestures like thanking a person for something that is normally taken for granted.
If anything, I feel it's you who deserves a standing ovation for providing a platform to each one of us to conduct this meaningful discusssion.
The LIP: Thanks so much for paying attention to those small 'gestures' which have lost their importance in today's world. I hope you continue being part of this hub. Take care.
I will definitely be a part of this hub until and unless you boot me out or my final call comes to join OSHO RAJNEESH..Whichever maybe first!!!
U 2 Take Care...Anjali..Ur Indeed a Priceless Gem Of A Person That's Soo Hard To Find In Today's World!!
God Bless You
The Lip:Thanks for replying!!it was a niece piece of writing!!But the thing which i have asked was unanswered.Yes i do understand that luxury and pleasure both are subjective issues and may vary from person to person.For example for a rikshaw puller luxury wil be to own a bycycle,for a car driver luxury might be to own a two wheeler,for a middle class it would be to own a four wheeler,for a millionare it would be to own charted planes and so on and so forth.But the point is if every body is looking for some thing more on the the name of luxury then where it will end?Who is going to decide what is luxury for whom and as per the osho's discourses person should drop all his desires because desiring means begging.Now regarding Vinod khanna,this fellow ,whatever he did to sit in the feet of master but what he understood while sitting there??nothing!!he joined BJP a hindu fundamentalist party as politician and was MP from punjab.he turned politician!!!
Is this he got at the end???And a freind Jimmy replied to me that whole commune was doing something and commune was running by the royaltiy of books published by osho.mind you from that 100 rollace royce cars couldn't be bought??what is your opinion on this???Kindly reply.
anjali,
1) you encountered someone who read about osho and was lost (this left a wrong imprint in your mind).
2) you write osho denied the existence of god? in the sense of a person and you have to understand in the context he might have said that.
3) he never said to have sex with everyone. his goal was not to repress sex but live natural. (take the primitive folks, they never think of sex like the way its done today).
sex is a huge profitable industry.
4) it seems like most people misunderstand 'no-mind'. it simply means no inner chattering. you have inner chattering when you want something. otherwise the mind is focused on what is there 'herenow'.
5) if you have meditated long enough (like 4-5 hours every day for 1-2 years) and practice mindfulness, you will clearly understand what osho has to say.
Bharat: Thx for showing deep interest in this subject. Since your query is addressed to 'The LIP', I would prefer not to intervene. Let's hope that he finds time to step in again and share his insight. Take care.
Josh Rain : Although my intentions are not to contradict you on your interpretation of OSHO (as it sounds convincing) yet, I wonder why people made such a big deal about OSHO's perception about 'sex'. Pardon me if I sound annoying but OSHO makes it look as if 'sexual starvation' is the only stumbling block (besides marriage / relationships)in the process of emancipation / enlightenment. Perhaps that's why he hammered more on the fact that one should 'be done with' one's sexual urges before walking on the path of enlightenment. I don't say that he is totally wrong on that but, possibly, it would have been much better for him and much easier for the commoners (to digest his speeches) had he projected 'sexual hunger' as 'one of the factors' instead of making it as 'THE major factor' responsible for obstructing the spiritual evolution of a man. If you ask me, I can give you ten different reasons (other than sexual deprivation) which can hinder the spiritual awakening in an individual. It's possible that OSHO used 'sex' as his USP (Unique selling point)as it helped him get a massive audience to hear what he had to say. Well, it doesn't mean that he was wrong in what he did but his 'ways' to achieve the desired goals are questioned till date. Speaking of 'no mind'theory, I liked the interpretation you gave. You comments are highly appreciated. Thx for stopping by.
hi anjali,
in fact sexual starvation seems to be a big block. this was argued by freud, another proof is the billion dollar sex industry, magazines (in supermarkets), sexual medicines, gym and workouts. in fact, it is a basic animal instinct and i can tell you if you are free from that, there is a whole new energy that open up. in addition, the force to get the kundalini energy going is from the sexual region. i have to agree with him that if man is free from this force there is a huge potential that opens up (especially at a young age).
First of all Mr Bharat I have nothing to say about the BJP and it leanings whichever side they maybe or any other political party for that matter. But none the less you wud agree that politics and religion do make cosy bed partners even during the worst (leave aside the best)of times.
Having said that I must add in haste that if Vinod Khanna decides to join any political party out of choice or even necessity it no way reflects that he has discarded himself from his religion or put Osho Rajneesh behind him. For the record let me draw your attention to an interview where he was asked what OSHO Rajneesh meant to him as of now and he gave the following reply:
"Bhagwan Rajneesh has the same place in my life that he has always held.He is my true guru and I always lead my life on his principles and the path he showed me when he was alive!!"
Mind you this is a recent interview and if you think that he has compromised his values by joining the BJP or sold out to Bhagwan Rajneesh then that is your personal opinion and you're entitled to it. As far as your evaluation of materialistic pleasures go I think you've missed the basic point being so busy as to read between the lines. When he says enjoy luxuries to an extent that you have had your fill he in no way means that we use one luxury as a stepping stone to achieve the next.It's for each one of us to decide where we want to draw the line not after being frustrated because we cud not get our hands on that luxury but simply because we have had our fill of it.So once we move on in life we do not look back over the shoulder with regret and frustration but with satisfaction of having enjoyed it and having overgrown it.
Sex has never been a tool for physical gratification but just a means to show that where it can lead you if you grow over it instead of wallowing in it. Time and again OSHO RAJNEESH has made comments to rub in the point that Sex can lead to Samadhi and become your strength if you start enjoying it at the right age i.e when you're 17 and not when you're 70 with one foot in the grave and the other on the banana skin.
The problem with most people is that Sex keeps playing havoc even when it has moved out from between the legs and travelled into the head.No wonder it's amusing to see a 60 plus person hanging around at a brothel even when he knows he may hardly be able to do half the thing he desires to do shud he be invited upstairs
Sex so long as it remains inside the pant(ie)s is natural the problem begins when it settles in the head and that's when it becomes a nuisance and with advancing age it only gets worse and worse. No wonder Playboy sells so many million copies.Ever wonder what is the subscriber base.Mostly people over the top.Where wud a sexually active guy/gal have the time to drool over it..they wud be too busy doing their own thing between the sheets rather than go gaga over a magazine spread!!
Spare a moment and do read my 100th hub am sure it wud definitely be an eye opener and you cud see some real mind blowing videos 2.
http://hubpages.com/hub/PEARLS-OF-WISDOM-FROM-OSHO
Before signing off just one thing I wud like to ask you Mr Bharat and that is why is everyone wanting to be a Chartered Accountant or an Income Tax sleuth trying to figure out where his wealth came from and how he got those fabled Rolls Royces. Wud his disclosing the sources change his philosphy in any manner.Had these pearls of wisdom come from Mr X or some other philospher wud they make more sense and are being disputed just because OSHO RAJNEESH is the source? The next person would want to know where he got the petrol money from or where did that diamond studded Rolex on his wrist come from..suely he must disclose his source else his philosphy is lacking credibility. How juvenile can people actually get really surprises me no end.
THE LIP
Dear Anjali,
Sorry for butting in without being asked to but all I wud like to add in to your conversation with Josh Rain is that if you read my hub in context with his reply you wud definitely notice that Sex maybe a factor or even a major factor like you say but even then at the end of the day it shud be allowed to remain just that.Simply a factor and not the goal itself.Alas Sex has been made so larger than life that it gets distorted to the extent of being ugly and peverted.
Sex remains Sex it's what we make of it and the circumstances surrounding it that make it horrible and disgusting. If you make a point it is natural but just because you emphasise on it or underline it does not in no way change it. So why create such a halo around sex.
Incidentally there is a lot more to OSHO RAJNEESH than just Sex....If only people cud look beyond there is a whole world out there waiting to be discovered but we're so fascinated by Sex that we start loitering in that corridor alone not realising the treasure trove that awaits us beyond.
Sorry for the unwarranted interruption Anjali.Do Pardon me for the intrusion.
Regards & God Bless,
The Lip
Well said "The Lip"
Nice hub anjali i personally think that the mark of enlightenment is that, it doesn't reflect anything its like a plain glass. He remains indifferent to dual aspects.
wordsword: Very well said. You have my vote on that. Thx very much for stopping by.
Anjali, you are discussing a subject which is bound to get attention.
I believe your feelings about what happened in the commue are accurate. People always misunderstand. It was both a beautiful and nasty place. Remember the distinction> Osho is Osho his people his people. You have to understand how the mind works and how easy it is to misunderstand. Osho was not only a buddha but a teacher too. People needed to grow up. When he was asked if he would have gone to his own ashram when he was younger. He answered no. I guess he was too rebelious even to listen to himself.
As for truth and enlightenment u are very limited in your insights. Yes for where u are now its good for you but you do not know yourself. Know yourself and you will embrace any buddha and understand him.
Regarding your friend. Seeking truth is a very delicate subject. I dont have the rootedness in my own being to speak on this now.
One last thing on Osho which might help u understand Osho.
When he was a child his grandfather died and since then he hasnt been attached too any person because when attachment showed itself to him it was immeediately associated with death.
As far as my own life is concerned Osho missed out on some things here regarding friendship and the juices of life. But who am I to speak on Osho\Existance itself.
Ps
I like your commitment to your own path.
Frederick: "As for truth and enlightenment u are very limited in your insights. "
I like that observation and accept it with humility. Thx for making me aware of that. I'm grateful that you found this hub worthy enough to comment on. Take care.
I found a response to this at
Sid: I read the post. It was very interesting. I'm glad that someone found this blog worth writing a review on. I call it a feather in my cap. :) Thx for bringing it to my notice.
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CJStone says:
8 months ago
"Osho" (which as I understand it is short for "Ocean") was originally called Rajneesh, also known as Baghwhan, and he was very popular, very fashionable back in the 80's in the West, eventually settling in the United States before he was kicked out. He used to drive around in a fleet of pink Rolls Royces. His followers always wore orange and were known colloquially as "the Orange People". There is a fantastic book which I cannot recommend highly enough called "My Life in Orange" by Tim Guest who was brought up in a Rajneesh community. Amongst a wealth of stories there's one I particularly love, about the time when Tim, as a little boy, walked in on the adults sitting around the kitchen table arguing over who was the most ego-less amongst them. Even as a child Tim could see the irony in this.