ASPIRING AUTHORS: BE AWARE OF AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING!

Please note:

While I welcome any and all emails and any further questions that you may have, I politely ask that you read this summary first before asking your questions. I realize we're all very busy and this is a VERY long story though - so I will summarize this long complicated story. If after reading this summary you still have questions I’ll try to help. Just contact me.I realize to many – this warning I’m about to chronicle here will end up leaving some readers scratching their heads saying, “DUH! Everyone KNOWS about those types of scam publishers or agents…” So this warning isn’t for the seasoned savvy published author.

I checked this “new” publishing company out with the Better Business Bureau. Not ONE complaint! When I recently tried to make one myself, I was told I took too long between the time I was swindled out of my money, until I made the complaint. I took too long because it wasn’t until recently that I realized – I wouldn’t be sued for making the complaint! I blogged this story on MySpace – so I’m going to get dinged by Hubpages again for a repeat – but so be it. This needs to be said – spread the news – please pass this on to ANYONE you know who is looking for a publisher in particular if they found this GREAT publisher who wants to publish their manuscript for a "deposit." And always check with Predators and Editors or “The Writer’s Market” NOT “The Christian Writer’s Market” (the author admitted on a Christian newsletter I belong to she is just one person and can’t check all of her listings. I’m not making that up) – before signing ANY contract.


To my knowledge - they accept anyone who contacts them - this alone should be proof enough that this company is nothing but a scam and a fraud. I know of no exceptions to the legitimate publishing houses having to turn down far, far more manuscripts and queries than they accept. It would seem American Book Publishing has never seen a book they didn't love.

American Book Publishing is still scamming people today. I’ve tried EVERYTHING to get this woman into jail. I’ve called the Salt Lake City Attorney General, our Michigan Attorney General, the F.B.I., local Salt Lake City law enforcement. I’ve implored a local Salt Lake City “do gooder” T.V. personality who actually promised to look into my allegations but I’m up against it. The MOMENT you go local – you tend to run into members of the Mormon Church. As this T.V. personality was. Nunn is a Mormon. They just let it drop. Michigan won't touch it, and the locals won't either. Still Nunn scams unsuspecting authors as I write this.

Name an organization – I’ve tried to have this woman stopped, but have been unsuccessful. She even made up a blurb she has on her website with my “recommendation” to publish with her. It’s maddening. I never wrote it! I have asked her to take it down - she said I had to stop "slandering" her and her company. I refused to stop warning others. This is my only recourse.

For those who take the time to visit this blog and to find out about the scam of American Book Publishing (ABP) and the scam artist who runs it -- C. Lee Nunn, a.k.a. "Nathan Fitzgerel" I thank you for taking the time to visit my Hub. Here is my story, one of many authors who was scammed out of a great deal of money.

So - in the interest of helping those who are very pressed for time, yet want to know the essentials of the ABP scam here is a trimmed down (believe it or not) summary of what happened to me -----

Cheryl Nunn was a certified financial planner in California. She lost her license. http://www.cfp.net/learn/disciplineactions.asp Then she apparently decided she wanted to start her own publishing firm under the name C. Lee Nunn. She at first attempted to "borrow" off the name of the Forbes Publishing until the real Forbes Company filed a lawsuit and made her stop. http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-1069.html

Eventually she ended up with the name American Book Publishing (ABP) and that's when I came on the scene - getting attention as a new book author (I had been published in newspapers as a reporter, editorial writer, feature columnist and in periodicals. I also had a work published as a compilation in a book at the time, but this was my first attempt at trying to publish a full length book). After my initial query, I heard from C. Lee Nunn herself asking me for a "deposit" of $750.00 that would be returned to me the moment I sold 500 books. I hesitated and began to research ABP because as green an author as I was, that deposit sounded strange. Plus, she had gotten back to me sooo soon after accepting my manuscript for "consideration."

I not only went to the Better Business Bureau's web site, I called them. I Plugged "American Book Publishing" into every search engine I could find and at that time – this was don't forget when Nunn's ABP literally was first conceived back in and around fall of 2000 – I found nothing negative. One woman wrote to me that I wrote to asking about a publisher who would ask for a deposit – and she did warn me. But hers was the lone voice. I was contacted by "authors" who said they had a lovely experience with ABP (probably Nunn herself writing the letters or members of her family – who knows?) If only I had plugged HER NAME into a search engine! When I checked on the authors, I saw their books WERE being sold on Amazon (having no idea at the time ANYONE can sell ANYTHING on Amazon).

I still hesitated though – Oh that I had listened to that one woman AND MY GUT – and expressed my concern in an email to Nunn. She told me to take the plunge. She had even dropped the "deposit" down to $500.00 (now THAT should have been my very first clue right there, eh?) and that her business was new so to give them a try. It was difficult starting out in the publishing business, she wanted me to "take a chance" on her business and they would take a chance on me as a new author. I am sorry to tell you, I went for it. I actually felt like I should help her out because we'd then both gain from the experience!

I was sent many professional looking documents. My contract was good – I had a lawyer look at it and he said it was OK but he expressed that it seemed too general. As long as it seemed legitimate, I was happy with it though and my friend-lawyer said it seemed legitimate.

My contract stated that my book would be published three years from the date of my signing the contract. Three years to the date my editor (who by the way had become a friend and had confessed she wasn't paid - employees of ABP got paid off the SOLD books ONLY of the authors they worked with) bumped me up to the next step which was the "copyediting" department. This copyeditor insisted that I write an addendum to my book to define what "cult" meant (My book chronicles my experience in the religious cult The Way International). I spent May, June, July, and through August of 2003 on this addendum and presented it under the new deadline I was given. And when I say I spent those months writing the addendum, I mean, I treated that like a 9-5 job. Unlike the story I told of my involvement in the cult that definitely required some research – I wrote this addendum as if I was tackling my master's thesis. I worked so hard on it almost seven days a week that entire time.

I came in under the new deadline and then waited. September, October, November, December and January passed and I heard nothing. Finally after much whining from me and almost impossible attempts to reach ANYONE at ABP – the "head" editor promised to see to my book personally. The final product was polished and edited, reedited and ready to go February of 2004. I was told May would be the "launch" date.

In May I spent $3,000.00 – as encouraged by ABP – on copies of my own book (over priced copies I might add but what the heck did I know?) convinced that I could sell every single copy as I already had been given many advance orders and had worked and worked and gave lectures and talks to pre-promote the sale of my book and had established what I felt to be a large number of contacts in the area of PA that I lived in. Not to mention as an Army wife - I had sort of a world-wide network of friends I believed would support me in buying the book as well.

I was informed by ABP that pre-orders were being taken directly – and about 100 or so people did just that while I waited for my $3,000.00 worth of books to arrive at my home.

Suddenly, I received complaints that while friends and relatives ordered the book direct from the publisher – ABP – and their credit card was definitely charged, they didn't receive a copy of my book even though it had been weeks.

Repeated calls and emails went unanswered at ABP.

We had to move from Pennsylvania to Lansing, Michigan and on June 15th 2004 I was in a panic because the advance orders I had taken personally and promised to deliver to those who ordered weren't going to be fulfilled. My $3,000 order STILL hadn't arrived. BUT June 16th, they did. I stood there while the UPS guy took his gurney and made two trips to my door worth of boxes. I opened one box right in front of him with my husband standing by – and pulled out the first copy which I promptly gave to the UPS guy. I was giddy until I REALLY looked at the cover.

Splashed across the cover of the book it said, "Advance copy not meant for resale." This despite the FACT I sent at least three or four emails explaining I was buying these books at "cost" to sell at retail so that I could take those profits and use it for my intense publicity campaign I'd forge once we moved to Michigan. AND APB sent me an “advance” copy with a letter explaining any books I ordered myself would be exactly like the book I received. Instead, to my shock, I had boxes and boxes of my own books I quite literally could not sell. $3,000 worth of books no less!

I still however, could get no information from anyone at ABP, no answers what-so-ever – regarding the unfulfilled book orders friends and family made. But since I had gotten my personal order, I just sent or gave those stiffed, the books that finally arrived. That meant I was taking the loss on those orders of course.

Finally – upon arrival in Michigan, amid a flurry of unpacking and all it takes to move half-way across the country into a new home – it was in mid-July (as I recall), I received a response to my numerous requests for help regarding the unfulfilled orders.

ABP had moved – so sorry – now, how could they help?

A publisher with supposedly many authors, editors etc. who work for them, moves and they tell NO ONE?

I got through to Nunn – finally - she answers in an email CHEWING ME OUT because I was impatitent to receive answers. People ordered the books from ABP, their cards were charged, but they didn't receive a book and I get chewed out for trying to find out why?!

Nunn and I corresponded a few back and forths when she finally spilled the "why" of the unfulfilled book orders. My addendum "slandered" a wonderful and "respected" church (The Mormon Church) and they were in the process of deleting that entire portion of the book and then it would be "ready for publication."

Long story short – I insisted the addendum stay – Nunn – who just so happens to be a Mormon – said it could not – despite the fact she broke the contract by doing ANY edit without my prior approval – she told me – delete it and change my mind about the Mormon Church (I included it in my list of cults and documented meticulously why) or never see publication of my book.

We had at least forty or fifty probably more email back and forths – with me actually giving in and agreeing (finally) to delete that addendum because I would not break the contract. But at that point – because Nunn now knew I was an "anti" (what Mormons call anyone who says negative things about their church especially those who call the LDS Church what it is – a cult), she was digging in her heels. We both knew at this point that the professional relationship had really broken down, but I was still willing to try anyway – at going on. She was not however and told me for $1,000.00 because of "all their trouble" (yeah right – SHE DOESN'T PAY ANYONE WHO WORKS FOR HER what trouble did it cost her??) she would let me out of my contract and oh by the way, I'd never get the rights to my book.

If I DIDN'T agree – she not only intimated that she'd sue – but if I tried to promote the book and say anything publicly against the Mormon Church – she'd seek legal action as well and she warned, I should know the Mormon Church "frowns greatly upon any disparaging remarks" made against them by “vigorously defending” their church against “defamation” by any means possible to include, “legal”. Duh – that's exactly why I included them in the addendum warning people about dangerous religious cults!

It was at that point I got a lawyer. ANOTHER approximate $2,000.00 later, I received a newly signed contract that severed my relationship with ABP, had my rights to the book returned to me, and forced her to fulfill immediately any book orders she had not completed (she had already begun to fulfill the orders that hadn't been mailed out the moment my lawyer sent her the first letter demanding she do so - among other things).

Her correspondence back and forth with my lawyer was filled and I mean PACKED with lies. For example, when my lawyer asked for a portion of the $3,000.00 worth of books I could not sell commercially, she lied and said I KNEW that what they put on the cover would be there when I ordered them.

OH SURE - my ego is SO HUGE that I just wanted boxes and boxes of my own books that I could KEEP sitting in boxes in my BASEMENT so I could just KNOW they were there. Never able to SELL them. Yeah - that makes a whole pile of sense.

Lies like these were very difficult not to respond to. But I resisted because I had a very competent lawyer in Jeff Chip.

Jeff wanted me to sue her BADLY – as he felt I could get serious damages as a result of exposing her scheme – but my husband and I decided not to pursue that route.

The most important thing I did get from hiring a lawyer was that although Nunn insisted we include in the new agreement that I would not be able to say anything against ABP, I was able to get around that morally and legally. Up to this point while I received any and all copies of correspondence between Nunn and my lawyer, I was not to communicate with her at all ever. Once, by mistake in hitting reply I sent what was meant for my lawyer to Nunn which caused a stir – but my attorney was able to get things back on track and I was much more careful when I hit the reply button. I had ENORMOUS difficulty though with the gag order. SO – my attorney worded the "gag order" in such a particular way; Nunn didn't notice that it wasn't a gag order at all. As long as I tell the absolute truth about my experience – I am protected by the constitution of our great nation. I just can not say any UN true things about ABP. Which I have faithfully adhered to. I would swear to anything I’ve written here or anywhere about ABP and Nunn in any court of law – gladly.

Nunn didn't catch the wording – and she signed. So – here I am – telling the absolute truth about C. Lee Nunn and American Book Publishing. STAY AWAY FROM THE CON ARTIST C. LEE NUNN a.k.a. Nathan somebody-or-other and NEVER give them your manuscript and NEVER EVER sign any contract with her or "them."

Most unfortunate authors who have been scammed by them have signed a newer contract (that wasn't around when I initially signed) that prevents them from even discussing ABP publicly. What is essentially – a gag order. I am not hindered by such constraints and am here to warn you BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID OF THE SCAM OF AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING.

And I would like to conclude this by saying that due to this incredibly stressful and heartbreaking ordeal - if it had not been for my faith in Jesus Christ, I would have probably lost my mind.
My book is still not published, I still have a basement full of books I can not sell and we're out thousands of dollars. Thank the Lord it didn’t put us at any terrible hard-ship. and yet I write for Him - for the Lord -- still to this day with a full heart (currently writing a the second book in a futuristic novel series I am nearing the conclusion of ). I know all things - even this heartbreaking disappointment - works ultimately for the greater good of God’s glory. I am comforted by that.

If what I have written here can help ONE person avoid the heartbreak I went through – then honestly – it will all have been worth it!

Update January 29, 2010

If someone has ever been turned down by American Book Publishing - please send a private email to cjv123@comcast.net

I will not reveal your name - I just wish to keep a tally. So far that I know of - the number is ZERO.

UPDATE---This seems to be a photo for Cheryl Nunn - now she's going by her real name for some reason - still using various aliases for American Book Publishing though and still capable of duping people out of thousands. I recently received a private email from a soldier IN IRAQ - who was into her for over $5,000. This woman is despicable! Thanks for comments from readers of this Hub - this appears to be the woman herself!

Update again 2/4/12 -- It would appear that the link previously provided is broken. The woman has probably once again gone into hiding. But sadly, she is still duping many people out of their hard earned money.

More by this Author


Comments 347 comments

breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 7 years ago

So sorry to hear of your ordeal. My dad was an attorney so I have always had a complete distrust of anyone who asks for money up front. When I peruse the internet looking for publishers or other outlets for my writing, I would say that 95 percent of them want thousands up front. I use the writer's market exclusively. One thing, I am curious about, did you contact the attorney general? One other thing, I would love to buy your book. Please let me know how I would go about it. Great informative hub.


lmmartin profile image

lmmartin 7 years ago from Alberta and Florida

Great hub CJV123 and it is indeed a quagmire out there. There is one golden rule for anyone looking to publish in the traditional route -- the money always travels to the author. Anytime, anyone demands a fee for anything related to traditional publishing -- it is a scam.

So glad to see these types outed. Take a look at another -- Writer's Literary Agency. These acam aritist prey on the dreams of aspiring authors and it stinks. The stench is the smell of dead and decaying books.

Thanks for the great write.


Carol  7 years ago

B-Pop- yes, I went to the Attorney General in both Utah and Michigan. They both steered me to a Consumer's Action type of state government agency - I made formal complaints and the Utah one told me (over the phone) sadly - there was nothing that could be done. I received a form letter from the one in Michigan saying the same thing.

The book is free - we wrote it off our taxes the following year. I can't take any money for the books. I give them away. I could send it as a Word attachment if you'd like - but I'd be happy to send you the softcover copy - no charge.

I'm fine now - it's all part of God's plan. I couldn't write though for about a year. It was one of the more stressful experiences of my life. Never knowing if Nunn would make good on her threat and sue us (we had just bought our first home as our 25th wedding anniversary gift to each other). I felt pretty crushed for awhile - but I came back to the place where I was able to trust that EVEN THAT HEARTBREAK was part of God's perfect plan. I know He caught every single tear. I KNOW my Redeemer lives!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 7 years ago from Michigan Author

Immartin - I already had checked out the agency you mentioned. P&E has them as "not recommended" -- http://anotherealm.com/prededitors/pebw.htm


BelieversPress 6 years ago

Carol, sorry to hear this happened to you! I've read many such stories but every time I read another one, my heart sinks anew. I hope you have better luck with your next book. I'm glad you faith helped you persevere though this!

To add insult to injury, "Advanced Review Copy" isn't even the correct term -- it's "Advance Reader Copy" or ARC (also called galleys). Had you used those for reviews the reviewer likely would have tossed it in the trash thinking it was another poorly published book. Unbelievable!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

BelieversPress - thank you for the comments. They used the term "galley" but I've never had someone tell me that it's "Advance Reader Copy" and that they got even THAT messed up! LOL I can laugh at it now, but I sure wasn't at the time! Ya learn something new every day! Thanks for that!


Mighty Mom profile image

Mighty Mom 6 years ago from Where Left is Right, CA

I hope getting that horrible experience off your chest gives at least a small feeling of vindication. It's amazing to think people like that are able to get away with this kind of fraud. Thanks for sharing your pain so that others may avoid it. MM


bobo 6 years ago

Unreal, I can not believe crooks, scandals and thieves find new ways of stealing someones hard earned dollar through deception and convience.


FeliceGerwitz profile image

FeliceGerwitz 6 years ago from Florida

They are not the only ones out there who prey on people. I have worked with many authors in discovering whether or not a company is legit. How horrible! I have self-published since 1994. What have you done with your books?

I hope you are not giving up!


Dolores Monet profile image

Dolores Monet 6 years ago from East Coast, United States

It's just disgusting, the number of people out there who exist to rip-off the innocent. Well, better to be the dope than to be one of the evil ones. I am sorry you had to go through that mess, how unfair! Another good website for writers is (just google it) writer beware.


itakins profile image

itakins 6 years ago from Irl

Why don't you set up your own website and sell it off that-everyone knows the story -so her 'stamp' could give added quirky appeal-under the circumstances.

Worth a try?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Thanks itakins - but I can't sell the book - we took it as a write-off on our taxes -- But I plan on someday rewriting it a bit, and hopefully getting a REAL publisher to publish it. Right now I'm pretty busy with my first novel series so I'm concentrating on that and getting that published. Thanks for the idea though!


jedoh 6 years ago

I was going to mail 880. to them today to publish my ms.!

Thought I'd check bbb just in case. they sounded so sincere

I'm so sorry about the way they treated you but am grateful for your warning. Bless you.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

jedoh: The fact that I can stop anyone from going through what I went through - trust me - my story isn't the only horror story with this scam American Book Publishing - then that made the whole thing WELL WORTH IT! Thank God you checked!! Blessings in return!


hymn book publishing 6 years ago

Information was helpful, there is lots to read here, which is always good when you're learning something from it good job.


Mormon Writers Beware As Well 6 years ago

I understand you have a pretty stiff dislike of the Mormon Church, but I'd like to add a warning to your timely warning - this company preys on locals just as happily.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Yes Mormon Writers - I understand Nunn has scammed many unsuspecting and particularly vulnerable Mormons. And it's sad to say because I'm sure once they find out ABP is Mormon owned, they immediately trust they are getting a legitimate publishing house and they most definitely are not.

The more pressing and troubling problem is - when I made all my local complaints to the local Salt Lake City authorities and as I mentioned above, T.V. personality - I always ask, "Are you LDS?" Most all would not answer me - which meant - yes they were. Which also meant - when I was frank with them that I wrote a very unflattering piece about the LDS Church in my book - thus what triggered me finding out Nunn was a scam - mysteriously - nothing ever came of my complaint. Nunn is violating the law -there is NO reason I can possibly think of - other than the fact authorities wish to cover up the fact Nunn is a law-breaking Mormon and possibly they refuse to help any complaint made by an "anti" - for this happening. And that's almost as criminal as what Nunn is doing. Allowing her to continue is not only hurting authors in general, but members for their own flock and I find that reprehensible as well.

I personally know of the LDS underground and how they will harbor/protect other LDS even if they break the law. It's not pretty.


ktnx 6 years ago

thanks for this info, i was about to accept a job offer from them. I will steer clear now.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Ktnx - it's comments and communications like this that make everything I went through worth it! Helping others AVOID what I went through - those who can't possibly afford the to lose the money - makes it now something I wouldn't change even if I could. Thank you for letting me know!


ktnx 6 years ago

Hey there, I just wanted to say thanks again. I'm so sorry you had to go through what you did. I'm a writer myself and I know how much time and effort it takes to complete a book. It's horrible what they did to you and even worse that they are still out there doing that to more authors. As writers we put so much of our hearts and souls into our work, all for an an unknown. It's all too easy to prey on people like us because we know the stats. We know it's very difficult to be published so when the opportunity comes by we often snatch it up without thinking. ABP sent me an email after one query email about their job position, offering me a contract. That seemed shady to me right away which is why I went snooping on the internet. Without you bravely speaking out against them I might have been roped into some shady contract, never been paid or worse. Thank You Thank You Thank You sooo much. I hope one day they will be stopped for what they are doing to writers.

US WRITERS HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER.

-one question, do you think they treated you so badly because of the stuff you wrote about mormonism in your book? I was just wondering because, I haven't really heard any other such horrible complaints as your about them. I know they are still bad because of the upfront charges for printing among many other things. But I was just curious if they do that stuff to every author they come across? If so you might be able to find those people and sort of band together against ABP. Although, it seems to me that the reason their scam was so extreme in your case is because of the whole Mormon thing (which is totally ridiculous btw) I can't believe people can get away with that kind of stuff.

My heart goes out to you for your struggle with these horrible people. Once again, thank you for speaking out!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Ktnx - a couple of things. Authors after me who were scammed were literally forced into shutting up because their contract contained a gag order. Nunn got wise after she scammed the first few authors.

Secondly, she threatens people all the time - just like she did Hubpages and it would appear, everyone is too frightened to take her on, they are bone weary from their ordeal with ABP or broke. I literally had a a lawyer contact me to tell me she scammed a JUDGE - I had a PhD contact me - Nunn never ended up publishing her book at all - but took her money to buy her own copies of her own books and gave her that order, but that was it. So she ran out of her own books but because her contract with Nunn not only had the gag order in it, it stated NUNN/ABP retained ALL rights to the book and the PhD was too broke to hire a lawyer to get her rights back! Her book and what she wrote about in that book was her LIVELIHOOD!

The sad, sad stories go on and on! I have folders filled with them.

I've tried very hard to get people together, but if they did seek legal counsel - they are warned because of the gag order, they'd be violated it. They won't do anything about this woman. It's very frustrating. Preditors and Editors have had their warning about ABP up about them for a long time - and now hopefully this blog will get some play enough so to set up some red flags.

She WILL eventually get hers, I may not be a witness to it - but what goes around WILL come around. She can't live her life scamming people without something eventually happening to her!


Sandy 6 years ago

Sorry that your experience was so horrible. That was a long time ago. Do you know of any recent issues with authors? I have read many books about how to market effectively, and buying and sending out copies is actually highly recommended. Good luck to you and other future authors.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Sandy - I know of at least three issues with recent authors who have written to me in 2009. Those are just the ones who wrote to me. I know there are more.

Also - buying ones own books IS a good marketing strategy but ABP has authors buy their own books for ridiculously inflated prices. And my books - as you can see by the photo above were impossible to sell - so I paid for books I wanted to resell that Nunn sent to me impossible to resell. Not very good "marketing" to say the least.

Also every single contractual promise was not kept. An author's page with the author's photo and short bio - never there. That was actually part of my contract - I know authors paid money to have professional photos take for nothing.

The book was to be published two years from signing the contract, never happened.

Lastly - not a single book "published" by ABP has ever been in any "brick and mortar" store. i.e. Barnes and Noble, Simon Shuster, Boarders etc. or in any library in the country. Legitimate publishing houses have books in these stores and throughout the public library system.


Sandy 6 years ago

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Do you happen to know what they charge authors now to buy their books? And how that compares to other publishing houses? I'm just curious. I believe that there is two sides to every story (the journalist in me :). I assume you follow every book they publish and check to see if they are sold in the brick and mortar stores? I am sure that would be hard to track. It may or may not be true, but I like to see the proof behind things, especially if you are against them so strongly. Thanks for your insight.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

OK Sandy - I get it. Seems very evident that your arguments are truly specious.

But I'll play your game because that just gives me more opportunity to prove APB is the scam it is and C. Lee Nunn/Cheryl Nunn/Nathan Fitzgeral is the con artist she is.

Instead of being a "journalist" why not try it this way just for fun:

See it as a consumer.

If THE premier writer's resource, The Writer's Market doesn't list them as a publisher yet they've been around since at least 2000 (As of the last issue prior to the latest one they were not listed). IF they've never been listed, why?

The Christian Writer's Market had ABP in their publication and subsequently removed them as a publisher admitting to making a mistake. Explain that.

If you are a journalist with any knowledge of the publishing or writing field, then you would know, without exception, NO LEGITIMATE book publishing firm EVER asks for money from their authors upfront for ANY reason. This is the industry standard. Period. That's factual and as a "journalist" you should know this. IF a "publisher" does ask for any money from the author, that puts them into the category of "vanity" or self-publisher which is NOT how ABP touts their business. They call their business a legitimate publishing house. It is not even if they DID slip a book into Barnes and Noble.

But my guess - if you wish to waste your time - have at it there isn't a one. Do your search. Go on-line or into the stores themselves and ask for the "Publishing" House "American Book Publishing" (go to the huge bookstore chains I listed above in a previous answer to your comment) and see if ONE book comes up. If I were a betting woman, I'd bet big because I'd probably win. You won't find one.

If numerous people have had heart-breaking problems working with this so-called publishing house run by someone whose license was revoked by the Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards of California, who then changes her name from Cheryl Nunn to C. Lee Nunn when she starts her "business" the journalist in your would know that this points to something extremely questionable. At this point alone, your story should lean towards a warning to unsuspecting authors. Even if you just use all of the above in just this comment alone - you would know - if you are a journalist as you say you are - that this story "smells".

Google the name "C.Lee Nunn" -

If - C. Lee Nunn - owner of ABP is plugged into a Dogpile websearch - this is a search engine that includes other search engines including Yahoo and Google in their results - after the first result the page is filled with "Writer Beware" and "Alert for Writers." Not even including just my blog.

Of course I have not tracked every single book in every B&N store to see if ABP books have ever been stocked. Your attempt at baiting me is childish and actually not "journalistic"-- simply argumentative just for the sake of being so and condescending as well with the added, "I am sure that would be hard to track..." And I think you know it.

You're not just "curious." You have an agenda - how about being honest and reveal it. Otherwise, let's just end this conversation and you go along being a "journalist" doing your research for all of these things you're so curious about. I've done mine. I no longer need any convincing. My experience wasn't the only harrowing experience with American Book Publishing. We are legion.

Instead of making comments on someone's blog asking THEM to do my journalistic research, I've already done mine. Now you go do yours if you're so curious. I KNOW American Book Publishing is shady at best - criminal at worst.

OH - And if in your "journalistic" research you can find an actual ADDRESS other than a P.O. box for this place and a PHONE NUMBER - that isn't years old and disconnected - or if you're able to communicate with the "owner" who calls herself "Nathan Fitzgeral" these days through anything other than emails - LET ME KNOW! Seems Nathan WILL NOT talk on the phone. If you're a "journalist" then ask for an interview - see just what it is you get. My educated guess is - "Nathan" won't talk on the phone or meet anyone in person because "Nathan" is really a woman - a.k.a. C. Lee Nunn a.k.a. Cheryl Nunn.

And as far as I know - there is no telephone number that works where you can reach "Nathan" and there is no physical address.

OH - and ABP "moves" very suddenly sometimes, NEVER even informing their authors. Hmmmmm - maybe they just like to move without telling a SOUL - sounds like a LEGITIMATE publisher to me! LOL

Now get real with your true intent behind your comments or I'll deny them from here on out. You want to come clean - they'll go up. If you want to keep playing "coy" and condescending this conversation is over. You feign politeness but you're being rude.


Sherri 6 years ago

I just recvd an email from ABP to send my full manuscript in. I am sooooooo happy I came across your website. I am NOT sending it in. I have a feeling that you are telling the TRUTH and that God led me to you. Thanks.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Sherri - I'm telling the absolute truth and I honestly tried not to even exaggerate. Every time I get one of these kinds of emails or a comment like yours it puts joy in my heart! It HONESTLY does! I helped save someone else from going through the _ell I went through!! Thank you so much for taking the time to comment and let me know! It rocks my world to know it! You BET that's GOD!!!


Joan 6 years ago

Your warning was found AFTER I sent my manuscript to ABP, paid the deposit and worked with an editor. I received a discount ad opportunity for my book and needed the publisher's address and phone number for the ad. After searching the ABP sight for that information, which was not there, I saw your site.

This is where I am now with ABP. ABP has requested I write and have published articles, which will include the title of my book and where the book can be purchased. (Writing articles is not something I've ever done, or desired to do.) With the Lord's prompting and help I wrote a true story about two puppies we rescued, the choices that were made and the consequences of those decisions, both good and bad. It is a good story and the manuscript was accepted by another publisher before ABP, but they required thousands of dollars which I don't have. I heard of ABP from a relative that had seen a book published by ABP, and it hadn't cost the author anything.

Now after reading your horrible experience with ABP, I'm wondering what I should do regarding my book. I signed a contract. I don't have money to purchase promotional copies to be given away, and I don't want anyone to send payment for my book with the possibility of them not receiving their purchase.

Have I lost my story to ABP? What would you recommend?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Joan - not to panic! How about writing me at my email address: cjv123@comcast.net - what I would do immediately is re-read the contract and see if there is any way you can legally get out of your contract with a written request asking that you terminate. That would be the first thing.

I'm not a lawyer nor am I a professional regarding contracts - but maybe I can lead you into the right direction. Don't give ABP another dime though - and reread that contract. There must be some way you can get out and get your rights depending upon how it was written. Write to me and let me know. cjv123@comcast.net


MilWife27 6 years ago

Oh my. I am so glad I stumbled across this, though I truly hate all that you've had to go through (especially since you are military; military wives have to stick together, you know!!). I had found a job posting for a freelance editor, so I applied. I got a fabulous response back, but decided to do a little research; Thank goodness I did! I do hate this for you, but thank you for sparing me the hardship.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

MILWife - so glad you wrote to tell me you will stay far away from ABP. I pray for every letter like yours there are many others who avoid ABP and simply don't write. Thank you so much for taking the time to let me know! YES - we have to stick together! ;-)


aspriingauthor 6 years ago

Thank you! Thank you! Thanks to you they didn't get me. The red flag when up when I checked out their website and found they want an $880.00 deposit for a contract fee. Then found many complaints on the internet.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Well thank God you weren't sucked in aspriingauthor!


Harvey Stelman profile image

Harvey Stelman 6 years ago from Illinois

cjv,

Unfortunately you fell hook, line and sinker. The sad thing is that you believed this person was a friend, this is business. Thinking that way will get anyone into trouble.

As a businessman I can tell you this; people are in business to make money, if a person can make a profit off of you they are not your friend. Until you receive a check from them, and it clears, you are prey. Sad but true.

This is a good writing, and quite informative. I hope she gets a broken leg!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Harvey - LOL! In this case though, it's not business - this woman is a scam artist.


H Saunders 6 years ago

I am saddened to hear of your experiences and frustrations with ABP. Requiring money up front is never a good sign, and the fact that you had to suffer so much time and energy and money had to be extremely rough. I do think, however, that you are closed minded towards what you have already decided is a "cult." Being vindictive of an entire group of people based on a bad experience of the one is discriminating and shows how truly ignorant you are.

I'm sure you found "research" against the Mormon Church, there are endless sites and endless people giving their opinion. You stated "I always ask, "Are you LDS?" Most all would not answer me - which meant - yes they were." You are sadly mistaken. They didn't answer because it is their business and none of yours. You, however, are so convinced that you assume (and we know what happens when one does that) you know their religious affiliation and the reasons for their actions, that it won’t matter what information they give you: you “know” the truth. In addition, I’d be very curious to hear how you “personally know of the LDS underground and how they will harbor/protect other LDS even if they break the law,” even though you’ve never been a member of the Church and have the habit of turning neutral stimulus into whatever fact you need to support your rage.

Given your response to the “journalist,” I doubt you will publish my comments because you don’t do anything unless it is self serving. But at least you might pause and consider how you are hurting others as ABP hurt you.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Well, here is an example of when someone assumes H. Saunders.

You assumed I wouldn’t post your comments. I did. See what happens when we assume? ;-)

You unfortunately have misunderstood or it’s very possible I haven’t made myself clear about the LDS Church and what I know about it here in this forum. As it is – the fact this scam artist is LDS was not the issue here nor the reason I wrote this Hub. It was a side issue explaining one of the reasons I believe this woman isn’t in jail – yet. So I can understand the confusion.

But let me explain why I know the LDS church is a Christian cult and the only cult that has been able to mainstream into our American culture. I was a member of a cult for six years. That’s what I wrote the book about – my experience in the cult I was in. That’s the book I tried to get published by foolishly trying to use American Book Publishing.

When I discovered the organization The Way International (TWI)– was a cult I needed to know more about cults. One of the base teachings of TWI was actually taken from the title of a book that was written by the founder of TWI – “Jesus Christ is not God.”

On such a day as this – Good Friday, I’m honored to be able to explain to you why it is a perfect teaching for cults to teach – that Jesus Christ is not God including the equally cultic teaching that the Trinity is just some “man-made” thing that isn’t even in the Bible and was denounced by the Niacin Treaty. Etc. Because anyone other than God is unable to atone for our sins. No other sacrifice is possible. They all are substitutes. Jesus Christ has to be God or He's not the true sacrificial Lamb.

Anti-Trinitarianism, is what the major Christian cults teach. It is the perfect tool for Satan to make certain that a person’s soul is condemned. The person believes they’re in a nice religious organization like the Jehovah’s Witnesses (ant-Trinitarian) or the Latter-day Saints (anti-Trinitarian) or The Way International (anti-Trinitarian) etc. when in truth they are in a cult. If a person takes his/her last breath only knowing the gods of the LDS Church or JW's or TWI - then they can not be saved because they never knew Jesus in Truth.

Unless we worship Jesus Christ in TRUTH – we don’t/can't worship Him. To warp this key and essential truth – as John 1:1-14 tells us that Jesus Christ was God who became flesh – then you can’t know Jesus Christ in truth which means you cannot be saved. It's like believing that a turnip is god. You go to church, you believe with all your heart that that turnip is Jesus Christ. Guess what? Then you don't know the Jesus Christ who can save your soul,

“Jesus saith unto him; I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me.” John 14:6

“God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.” John 4: 24

“In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and God was the Word.” John 1:1

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. “

John 1:14 (KJV)

Notice the pattern – the word “Truth” – keeps coming up. This is very important. Naming a religious organization whatever one names it doesn’t prove its authenticity – and that is especially true of the Latter-day Saints or Mormons as they are more commonly known.

When I found out I had been in a cult for six years – I began to find out how this had happened to me. Back in those days, I went to the Library and found books – so many books and reference materials and I bought books. I made phone calls to some of the authors of these books and they kindly gave me their time.

The first time I walked into a Christian bookstore, I spent a fortune. But I also discovered something – the only books about the Mormon Church or having anything to do with the Mormon church were in the cult section. I found this no matter what Christian bookstore I went into. And now – CBD has this standard as well. That’s because the LDS Church is a cult.

One common thread – Christian cults are anti-Trinitarian. They warp the very essence of what Orthodox Historical Christianity was and is. Yet – these cults – that each proclaim are the “only” true Christian organizations – agree on one fundamental lie – that Jesus Christ is not God (for Mormons he is one of many, many countless gods) they all make Jesus something else. Thus – throwing out the concept of One God, three persons. This alone makes a church something other than Christian,

Over the years (over 20) I kept reading – I’ve read The Book of Mormon (BOM)and all the “sacred works” of the Mormon Church.

But even if I had not read the BOM - it doesn’t take someone filled with the Holy Spirit long to know that this book is a blaspheming God’s Word. The very fact that the BOM exists as “another gospel of Jesus Christ” immediately goes against Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Cor. 11:2-5, 13-15 and so many more scriptures. One of the excuses the LDS Church uses is that there are some books missing from the Bible – so there needed to be another gospel.

Yet the BOM doesn’t contain these other books.

I could go on – but I won’t.

Christians believe in only one God – Mormons believe in not only multiple gods – and goddesses – but Mormons believe they themselves can turn into a god if they just live perfect Mormon lives and take part in an occult Temple Ceremony (that’s a whole book-list of blogs in and of itself). Paying their way to Mormon heaven (they must tithe 10% of their income to the Mormon Church or they can’t partake in the Temple Ceremony. No Temple Ceremony – a Mormon can not go to heaven).

Christians who believe in truth – that Jesus Christ was God – the Living Breathing Word made flesh and came to earth to die for our sins as our perfect sacrifice – then they are saved. The only cost was the blood of Jesus shed on Calvary. He gave His life so that we could have life eternal. There is only one God – and any Church that wants to call itself Christian must believe in ONLY ONE God. If not – then they aren’t a Christian organization. Period. There are multiple denominations and even Catholics and Protestants within Christianity. But the one thing they ALL agree on is – there is only ONE God. If a religion wants to believe that kittens are gods, that is their prerogative. But if they attempt to call themselves Christian I for one – will call them on it. It’s absurd. Orthodox Historical Christianity has ALWAYS believed in ONLY one God. Believe something else, then your organization isn’t truly Christian.

The “rage” you saw here was because a woman who made comments wasn’t truly interested or inquiring. She had already made her mind up and was being sarcastic, cagy and she was deliberating baiting me. She admitted as much in her comments finally – her friend had a job with ABP and thought it was a nice experience.

This Hub wasn’t written to play games with someone who has an agenda – and in the future – these discussions will have to be taken elsewhere. I allowed that one woman to bait me and for that I am at fault. Even my comments at this writing are off-topic. This Hub was written to tell the truth about American Book Publishing because they are out scamming unsuspecting authors. I have no problem with commenting about something related but in the future, long back and forths are a waste of my time and frankly – God’s time. And the time of those who are dropping by to find out about ABP.

I do not have rage – I was peeved and angry that the woman was so rude as to not say up front what she was driving at.

I’ve done my my research. And that specific experience you also doubted and assumed I was making it up – believe what you want. But it happened to someone I know. I witnessed to him and he left the Mormon Church as a result (or so he told me). We became friends. His wife left him and it was shocking and heart wrenching what the LDS Church did to him because 1) he left the church and refused to return and 2) wouldn’t allow the LDS Church to push him around. He received death threats and was told if he didn’t stop trying to get custody of his children (


lindalawrence 6 years ago

I have just sent my manuscript to them. They wanted more information and pictures and I sent them. However I have not received a contract yet---thank goodness.

My book is fiction, a novel--but really good. There has never been another book written like mine. I am so disapointed. Where is there a good publishing company. I did have my book copywrited.


V.L.C. 6 years ago

You said that the purpose of your web site was to keep at least one person from going through the heartbreak that you experienced. I'm sure there are many more, but I am one that God saved from that fiasco through your information about ABP. I wrote a Christian novel that means a great deal to me. I have been trying for two years to get it published. I have received many compliments on my writing, but most publishers do not believe it is marketable. To my surprise, ABP immediately thought it was very marketable when they saw my short query and talked about publishing it before they even saw my manuscript. This put up red flags for me, but I couldn't find anything really negative about ABP until I found your web site. I do not believe, like so many Christians do, that God puts these trials in our lives. However, the Lord's gets mileage out of every experience we have, good or bad, and your web site has been a great blessing to me. Thank You.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

And thanks be to God V.L.C. you are right - you are not the only person I've heard from telling me my writing about my experience stopped them from making a terrible mistake.

I'm thinking that for every wonderful letter (many send me emails and don't comment here) and comment - there are many more who come here and simply don't write to me.

Because of my commitment to help others - because like you - I believe God gives us these trials to grow and to learn - my husband and I are richly blessed. God is good. Certainly not nearly on the same scale as Job - but God saw it all, and abundantly and richly blessed us after having gone through this trial. I admit - normally - I have a rock that is Christ as my foundation. But at the time, when this happened and Nunn threatened me - it rocked my whole world, and not in a good way. We had waited a life-time to buy a home, we were in it literally only months - and she threatened to sue me with the LDS Church backing. I'm fairly confident now - she couldn't sue me no less with the LDS Church to bankroll her - but at that time, it struck child-like fear in me.

Every single time I get an email or a comment such as yours - filled with grace - I see the Lord's hand in it all. Almost as if He's saying to me, "See Carol, I gave you that trail for a reason, so that you could end up helping others."

So I thank you for the reminder and your gracious comment. And I am truly, truly thankful that the Lord has used me to help others like you. It's a great, great feeling! Thanks so much for taking time out of your day to tell me about your experience!


M. T. Dremer profile image

M. T. Dremer 6 years ago from United States

It is such a shame how writers have to navigate a minefield of scams just to get their books published. I read a publishing guide written by J. A. Konrath where he constantly stressed that you should never have to pay your agent or a publishing company and to be weary of anyone that asks for money before your book is published. I haven't attempted to publish any of my books yet, but I know that when I do I will have to tread very lightly. But the screw-job being given to writers extends outside of the publishing world as well. Sites like eHow lure you in with the prospect of writing for money on the web, but then they clamp down on you with legal agreements that not only dictate what you can write but ownership of your work. There needs to be far greater protections for writers, because we are getting the short end of the stick way too often.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Well M.T. - the good news is we have the internet to keep us informed now. When I got involved - the internet was a bit new, and it was certainly new for me. So while I certainly agree with you there aren't just publishing scams - there are blogging scams as well, I believe that writers can be better informed. Knowledge is power! Thanks for stopping by and commenting!


Rbdouglass 6 years ago

thanks for the valuable info! I was contacted by ABS and did actually send a copy of the manuscript. That will be ALL they get from me:)


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Rbdouglatss -- So glad you stopped by to let me know! This is wonderful news! Every time someone writes to tell me something like this it's a victory! Thanks so much!


6 years ago

Have been dealing with:

Abigail Woodward Wright

Acquisitions Director

American Book Publishing

5442 So. 900 East # 146

Salt Lake City, UT 84117-7204

The letter I received is highly complimentary of my book but is very vague about the book itself. It alludes to the wonderful title and to the significant value to the reading public. As Abraham Lincoln once said of the words and promises of another, they are about as good as ".....soup made from the shadow of a starving pigeon."

Thank you for the heads-up!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

And thank you very much G for stopping by and giving us this information.

I now know, they probably don't even read the manuscripts sent to them. They don't even do that small thing.

There's a call out on Preditors and Editors to all authors to let them know if they were TURNED DOWN by ABP. So far, no takers. No one seems to ever be turned down by American Book Publishing. I put out that same call - ANYONE who has ever been turned down by American Book Publishing will be posted here in a separate Hub.

I won't be holding my breath...

Thanks again for stopping by!


trinigirl profile image

trinigirl 6 years ago from Trinidad & Tobago

all writers know that if you want your book publish you seek out an literary agent. If you look at legitimate publishing houses you see books that they have publish on their home page.

Your experience is a very scary one - I hope that you learn you lesson if you still want to get your book publish join this site - it will help you locate an agent

http://www.writersmarket.com/

www.writersdigest.com/

they give you all the information you need. Bye


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Thank you trinigirl. The problem is, any NEW writer doesn't necessarily know this. I know all of these things now- but new writers often don't. I can't tell you how many people they've hood winked - always unpublished, new authors.


"Quill" 6 years ago

Great Hub to read after an experience I had which rings so true in conjunction with yours. What we learn from these things id homework, research and hopefully learning a great lesson.

Blessings


Dave 6 years ago

Check out the Preditors and editorssite. Under "opinoins" read the sales anaylsis of American Book Publishing to see how few APB books are sold. Very informative and all from data provided by APB.


Cinlee 6 years ago

Great article. I'm writing childrens books and did my homework on agents and publishers, OMG... I was surprised by what I found on the Internet WOW... Thank goodness for the Internet. Predators and Editors is a great site for information on this subject. By the way they list ABC as having a new contract without the penalty clause. This was a ten thousand dollar fine for stating any negative post or statements about them for people with contracts. I was considering self publishing for about one day!!!! I think with all of the publicity that is out there on them someone is going to start investigating their business. Keep up the good work and God bless.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Dear Dave - I hadn't read that portion of Preditors and Editors, but will because of your suggestion. I'm sure they sell very few because they do NOTHING to promote the author's book. Zero, zip, nadda. I just received a private e-mail from an Iraq war vet who was into them for over $6,000. Nunn is DESPICABLE. I'm still so shocked she's still getting away with this! Thanks for stopping by and leaving your comments!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Thanks Cinlee - we can only hope that someday she'll "pay the piper" as they say! Thanks for taking the time to leave your comments here.


dee 6 years ago

Seems C Lee as Cheryl l Nunn is exec dir for an orgaization seeking tolerance for gays/les in the Mormon Church. Seems she had a face book page where her picture was shown but now is missing. Politics/orientation aside, I wonder if she really believes in the cause, is paid as director or is running it as some means of going after a group (as in Mormon writers with APG) to make a buck. Merely curious in that there is enougn flac about her that any legit organization might see reason to want to disassociate themselves.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee -- I discovered that she was part of a big rally in Salt Lake some time ago for gays rights within the LDS Church myself. I would have loved to have seen a photo of her - and I'm thinking that probably is the only legitimate thing about her. She's probably a lesbian and still wanted to be Mormon as she vehemently defended the LDS church with me. But who knows - I'm curious too. If you find out anything else please let me know! And thanks for leaving your comments, it's very much appreciated.


dee 6 years ago

Did you read the sales analysis report on the Preditors and Editors site?

Anyone thinking of signing with ABP should read it. There aresome whom I suspect have been served enough publisher rejections but truly believe they have a great manuscriptthat sign with the likes of ABP hoping even that type of "publisher" will get the attention of readers and/or reviewers is most vunerable. Merely read the excerpts from some of these writers and you learn their rejection from the industry reflects poor writing skills. And to think some beleive editors will look past that and polish the rough to gemstone quality. Little wonder C. Lee Nunn recommneds writers not to provide excerpts.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - Yes, I had read that - the only place you can really find ABP books is on Amazon and you can sell toilet paper on Amazon - anyone can sell just about anything on Amazon - ABP doesn't do it for you at all. You're absolutely right - I put the big house publishers partly at fault as well as the snooty publishing agents. I recently read a very sarcastic, obnoxious blog by a well-known agent. They're so buys telling you what NOT to do - and making fun of the mistakes people make to attempt to get published, they are little to no help anyway.

I believe soon the old big houses of publishing to include their "well connected agents" are going to go by the wayside in the not too distant future. They accept so little talent and I know for a fact - there IS talent untapped out there. I've read remarkable materials by talented writers who can't get their foot in the door. That's how ABP gets weary authors - just as you said.

What I love about the new up and coming small publishing houses is they are "winning" because may of have tapped into the ebook market and they are scaring the pants off of the "big guys." Marcher Lord Press is one perfect example. There are Christians who don't read "Amish" books. It's so frustrating to try and find a good selection of Speculative fiction out there. Marcher Lord Press tapped into that and BINGO - one of their books just won a Christy Award! An author who probably never would have had her book published in a million years were it not for Jeff Gerke and Marcher Lord Press!


Taylor Stewart 6 years ago

Great post...another place you might want to post your story is ripoffreport.com They have a database of complaints against many scam artist. I looked there for info on ABP before finding this post. Thanks for saving me from a similar fate.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Thank you Taylor, I will definitely look into that! Thanks for the heads up! And thank you for leaving your comments.


dee 6 years ago

The defunk Speculations had an on-going thread about both C. Lee Nunn and ABP. Initially the issue presented was her plagarism, which she acknoledege occurred but blamed it on an editor. She too once stated she was not the founder of ABP but left her investment job to join. She claimed elsewhere she had an investment compnay and was ripped-off, lost her home, bought a second-handcomputer and started ABP.

As Cheryl Nunn she churns and burns an investorand gets herlicence suspended. As C. Lee Nunn-note minor change- she starts ABP, get caught plagarizing, infringing on a trademark, and numerous complaints regarding paying writers for what few books were sold, complaints about contracts, ditribution etc. to the extent Nathan Fitzgearl emerges. If I recall, the Nathan is not the first other than Nunn name to appear. and now, as Cheryl Nunn she is director of some gay/lez organization, no doubt expecting donations. Wonder how much goes to the cause and how much to administration? Wonder how many supporters are aware of Nunn's background. Wonder if others running this oprganization know of her background? Wonder if she founded this group from a true belief or figuring potential supporters would send checks and not question what goes to the cause versus her?

Wonder why she removed her picture from her facebook site. My guess: she knows her past will always haunt her.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - I remember when "Nathan" wrote me this "cease and disist" order when I first went public warning about ABP. It was written in a semi-lawyerly style - yet it had the same misspellings and grammatical errors her emails to me used to have. Thus the wrong spelling above of "desist". So I called her bluff - and even though the email was signed "Nathan Fitzgeral" I wrote, "Cheryl - I'm not going to take it down. What you don't remember is that i never signed a gag order in my contract and number 2 - when my lawyer threatened to sue for the rights to my book back - you agreed out of court to sign a new contract. That new contract you THOUGHT had a gag order in it. However, he happened to be smarter than you and worded it so that as long as I tell the TRUTH about my experience, I was protected by my right to free speech. So as long as I tell the truth about you and ABP - I'm perfectly within my rights."

She wrote back that I must be mistaken, I was referring to a former "employee" of the company that I was writing to Nathan blah blah" and I wrote back that I knew it was her because I recognize the sloppy way she wrote, identical to the old emails of hers I still had." She threatened me with another email full of bluster but when I wrote "So go ahead, bring it. Sue me. I'm not taking it down. And I know it's you Cheryl Nunn - and someday you'll be caught. You may have gotten a chunk of change off of me, but at least I can sleep at night." Never heard from her again. Now she just goes after the places I blog like Hubpages. Thank God they didn't cave - they stood up to her too to their credit! Thanks for the extra information. I would have given anything to see the face of this woman before she took it down! She has a facebook page as Chery Nunn?! What Hutzpah!


anon 6 years ago

Checking Nunn's gay/lez organization, checking recent events, marches, addressing the state's congress, actively petitioning (other than asking for on-line- seems the initial thrust was it. Yet I wouldn't doubt, like her ABP "publishing" group, she keeps the site alive, hopes for money from little effort. Perhaps someone should check into what share of donations go to her for admin and what reallygoes for the effort. For mymoney that ratio and her background would indicate this is yet another money making scheme.There'scon artists who really work their marks, who do their homework. then there's lazy con artists who get on the phones and sell lies to get personal info.; send emails regarding Nigerian bank lotteries; and those who creat web sites with big promises, all for a fee.


closecall 6 years ago

One year ago I found ABP in the then brand-new 2010 Writer's Market, a source I trust implicitly. (Yes, folks, it was listed in Writer's Market, but just the one time. It's not in the 2011 version.) In July 2009, When I e-mailed ABP asking for writer's guidelines, I got an immediate response saying they'd like to look at my manuscript. Fortunately there were delays all along in writing the book, which is still only half done. If it hadn't been for the omission of the listing in the 2011 Writer's Market, finding that their web site had been deleted, and running across your story by googling ABP, I might have sent in my own manuscript eventually. I plan to have a conversation with Writer's Market about this. If they (or Writer's Digest) don't warn their subscribers, ABP could be lurking around under who knows how many other publishing aliases. Thanks for telling your story.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Thank you so very much closecall for telling your story here. ABP was in one issue of the Christian Writer's Market as well - but after my email to the author - it hasn't appeared again. The Writer's Market has obviously gone downhill, I had heard that with the the 2008 or 2009 addition, I can't remember when.

As long as it was a close call and you hadn't gone through with it. I have heard some really bad horror stories - I'm glad you're not one of them!!


Frank Zanca 6 years ago

I just got accepted by American Publishing and then a friend of mine found this link. Below is the acceptance email.

Dear Frank,

Congratulations! Your book made the cut and stood out over the great number of submissions we have had over these past several weeks.

We have reviewed your manuscript and selected it as one of the few we feel is a good match and fits our specific book publishing mission and goals. We are confident in its future success given our publishing tools, marketing, and influence. We are excited to begin our work with you, which will include traditional high quality book publishing services such as the following: assignment of a professional content and developmental editor, a separate professional copy editor, a custom cover designer and the services of our book marketing and distribution departments.

Once again, congratulations on this significant step in your career as an author! We are pleased you submitted your title to us and congratulate you on the intelligent decision to entrust your title to our expertise.

Welcome to the family! Next week I will send your book contract . You will also be given further information and instructions in a subsequent email.

Please reply to this message so we know that this is indeed the author of Escape From Berlin: The Diane Jacobs Story. We look forward to working with you.

Sincerely,

Gail


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

This is not to say your manuscript isn't good but I defy anyone to give me even five they've turned down! My advice is to run - run fast and run FAR away!

Sadly - they simply don't turn anyone down. That email - in my opinion should be followed with "Said the spider to the fly..."


Frank Zanca 6 years ago

Can you remove my above post?

Thanks.

Frank


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Why Frank?


dave 6 years ago

Ever read tha acceptance letter from PublishAmerica? The aforementioned ABP reads the same. Note the absence of any referance to the manuscript title, any suggestion of what that fit might be. Anything other than the name of the individual that remotely indicates anything but a form letter.

Take it from a published writer, acceptances are much more personal, typically involve some level of contact as in personal especially when a sizable advance is involved. Real publishers put their money upfront,take the risks. Phoney publishers ask writers for money. I love the refenece to APB's confidence of the book's success. By what measure do they make such a claim given not a single APB title has sold enough copies for the writer to get returned their deposit. Not one APB title -measured by Amazon rankings- has sold more than a handful of copies. Given the books are only sold through Amazon types it means there is no success in sales unless a few is APB's definition. Doubt any would agree. BEfore signing, ask APB what potentialsales they see that influenced their decision that it fit. Wiat, don'tbother, they will never respond, merely inform you of someserious needs -after you sign and send your money-for you to promote.after all they believe in your work as much as you, enough to print all the copies you wish to buy.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

You got THAT right Dave. I unfortunately learned that the hard way. I hope this Hub and these comments lead to many more avoiding the expense and nightmare of dealing with this scam artist. Thanks for taking the time to write.


anon 6 years ago

What real publisher would not open a dialogue with a writer they sign. More than email exchanges for certain, perhaps even a personal meeting; the latter vitallyimportant if the publisher desiuresthe writer to assist in marketing: at the publisher's expencemost likey.

ABP pushes their writers to promote, advisesthe best means is to buy several hundred copies to send to reviewers. They suggest book signings, do several monthly in that way think of all the money you can make. First, no real publisher expects any of their writers to organize any signings, the publisher does this, their name and reputation has more weight than most writers and certainly more than a first time writer, as does the publisher handle copies to reviewers: the same reason of reputation holding more weight. And no publisher would everexpectany writer -even the most famous- to do several signings month after month and never as the means to generate the majority of sales. Think of the costs of travel, hotels etc to the potential number of copies sold. But ABP expects it from their writers, blames low sales on the writer not doing enough promotion.

It's notabout getting rich, not even breaking even. It's about losing money, absorbing all the costs of promotion, following marketing techniques that border on a pyramid scheme mentality. And it all stems on having copies of your book bought from C.Lee Nunn, who cares nothing if any reader ever buys a copy. She only cares that the writers does, for saldy she knows most are really not very well written, that only friends and family, out of loyalty, would buy, as is true for most self-published books.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Exactly anon - thank you for making the case again for us to warn others!


anon 6 years ago

Noted from a previous post.

"Once again, congratulations on this significant step in your career as an author! We are pleased you submitted your title to us and congratulate you on the intelligent decision to entrust your title to our expertise.

Welcome to the family! Next week I will send your book contract . You will also be given further information and instructions in a subsequent email."

We are pleased yousubmitted your title to us??? One submits a manuscript. A real publisher accepting a manuscript notes the name of the manuscript. A real publisher doesn't list the services they provide, they may reply via an email but all other communications are personel and documentation sent via mail. The contract NEVER asks the writers to pay something, the particulars of the relationship are not subsequnet to the sigining of the contract-taking money as in the case of this company- not instructions. The contract spells out monies, time frames, rights. The expectation of deliverablesfrom the publisher are clear, editing, promotion etc. the publisher's resonsibility. Copy-editing is a given, as is the fact the sun will rise.

And a given, the publisher hopes to make money by building reader awareness and demand.Sometime they fail. It is their risk based upon a abeleif the book has a potential. And that is from their experience and knowledge of the markets/readers they serve. Any winder then why some publishers handle nonfiction, self-help onlyand fiction may be very genre specific: sci fi for example.

And ABP covers all genres and pays editors royalties from sales -alone NOT a standard practice. If books sell at less than ten copies/year, and ABP claims to accept only 80 title/yr. not much there to pay even a single editor. So what level of talent can they attract? More so what talent to cover all those genres? More so, what qualified editor would ever accept royalties?

Get the idea, writers pay for the services of some very less than qualified editors with little or no experience and certainly no reputationto get any reviewer interested, and certainly with no experience to cover all the genres.

So the writer pays for poor editing from unqualified editors with little motivation to do better. And the only one profiting and not caring one way or the other about qulity is C. Lee Nunn. Why should she care about her company's reputation, she has no intent of promoting any books so there is no value. The only value is the term "publisher" something to sell to writers to print their manuscript


dee 6 years ago

Other sites containing warnings about C. Lee Nunn/ American Book Publishing, indicate several others reported of abusive and threatening emails if they spoke out about their expereinces with the aforementioned.

If possible could you provide examples of your correspndence. I think it would give a real indication to the extent C. Lee Nunn goes to extract/extort money as well to cover her activities. She has a long history of threatenening legal actions, yet to my knowledge has never followed through. Many beleive in doing so she would be forced to reveal how she operates. But more important the contnet of the threats indicates so muchof her character -lack thereof. It would indicate what type of personality any aspiring writer would have to deal with if they don't do all thatis asked; all meaning giving her money disguised in one form or another. Would indicate her unbridled greed, perhaps even her own dishonesty.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - at this time - I can't get my hands on those files - it's in an old computer at home and I'm on vacation. I'm not positive i still have them, but I think what you suggest is a very good idea and I think I'll try to dig those out and do that.I know I saved them somewhere. I'll try to remember to look for the letters when I get home. Thanks for writing your comments.


tlpoague profile image

tlpoague 6 years ago from USA

Thank you so much for this informative hub. I have been waiting for the last two years to publish a book, because of so many scams out there. I finally decided that when I have the money saved up I would self publish so I could control my rights to my book. I have been doing research on self publishing so I don't fall into a scam there too. Thanks again for your hub!


dee 6 years ago

To tipoague

Was it your desire from the start to self-publish; the wait of two years to get the money to do so? Or,have the last two years been full of rejections from publishers? Is it your desire to reach readers; is it to make money? Is it really a matter of controling your rgihts? If you salf-publish, if you want to reach readers beyond your immediate geography then you best save enough money for promotion. Remember this, for all the hassles, for all the time it takes to even get a publisher to look at your work, most is rejected because it is poorly written. Self-publishing does not remedy this. Publishers must make money from book sales to survive and thrive. They invest in promotion, they pay to edit and print. Getting readers to consider, say nothing of buying requires more than having books. If you want to reach as many readers as possible, I would suggest rereading your manuscript, be objective, read published booked. How does your compare? Then make the changes, and go through the process getting publishers interested. If all you care about is being in print, then self-publish.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 6 years ago from Michigan Author

You make a good point here - even a wonderfully edited self-published book is unlikely to be noticed. An author needs to promote and probably using a good promotional company would be worth the coin. It's tough out there, but I do think the publishing world is changing. If you get a good self-publishing firm like Amazon has - then you do have an excellent chance - if your book is good - of getting your book read by the public. American Book Publishing is NOT the avenue though no matter what your goal is - self-publish or get a large publishing house to sign you. Thanks for the comments.


dee 5 years ago

Remember this: the majority of books sold move through bookstores. Readers seldom browse Amazon and the like looking for what's new. Most searchn by title or author, meaning they have an awareness.

Excluding readers who seek a familiar author's other works a good majority find new author's via word-of-mouth (includes friend/assocaiate recommendations) browsing under subject (means actually opening to book and reading) reviews, or what is displayed.

As this relates to ABP: there is no presence in book stores, there is no assistance in getting reviews, infact virtually all ABP books are not reviewed by the media. There may be author web pages but nothing to draw attention, to bring readers in. And, what reviews may exist -questionable sources- are on the author's web site, again nothing makes readers aware of its existance. But, the author is told to buy hundreds of copies to send to reviewers who in fact generally ignore self-published books for the very reason most are poorly written. What remains are friends and family buying and authors hoping this will generate some pyramid effect in growing a reader base. Well, based upon both common sense (pyramid schemes fail) and sales rankings from Amazon and B/N this doesn't work. Add the sad fact that most self-published books are not well-written, and far too many poorly edited, it asks much of friends and family to push onto others what is clearly not worth the inflated price ABP asks say nothing if priced competitively.


elleberquist6 5 years ago

I submitted a manuscript to America Book Publishers yesterday. I should have researched before I did that, but I got impulsive. Thanks for this warning, now I know not to waste my time waiting to hear back from them.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I'm sure you'll get an acceptance immediately and of course that will be right along with their request to send in your "deposit". Nunn needs to get those things on her Christmas shopping list after all...

Sorry - just had to put that in. Thankfully though, you saw this and now you won't be duped like so many others have been.

I still do not understand why this woman remains in business at ALL.

Thanks for leaving your comments.

Carol


dee 5 years ago

Re: elleberquist6's post. I would be interested in an update regarding if and when an acceptance of the manuscript arrives. Two points to consider: 1)Virtually all real publishers, and even agents, take at best several weeks but typically months to reply. They are inundate with submissions. 2) In the past C. Lee Nunn would get back within days with an acceptance. To think she has that level of staff is ludicrous, especilly if the unsuspecting assume ABP is a real publisher, thus ABP too gets numerous submissions. The problem however, C. Lee Nunn reads this blog, as such she must weight her greed: should she accept nd hope both the writer will pay and not post here; or, should she reject thus "proving" ABP is select. Either way, we will not know unless elleberquist6 provides details. There is one other consideration: elleberquist6 is a plant. C. Lee Nunn can try to claim thi blog prevented denied her income. Interesting the level she might try to pursue this.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee, if C. Lee Nunn tries to set up some kind of lawsuit that would mean she'd have to show herself in court as Cheryl Nunn and not Nathan Fitzgeral or any other alias she has tried to use. I guess I see it as, at least I can sleep at night. She has to chase all the things said about her and cover her tracks and try to guess strategy based on reading something here and trying to figure out what she needs to do to counter it. I come here and answer the comments and sleep soundly at night. She doesn't though I'm guessing.


Camil  5 years ago

Hi,

my name is Camille and I am in a contact with Acquisitions Director from American Book Publishing.I agree with you that as a respectable publisher,should not ask money before.

What do you think about Gail.

if you can tell me are they reliable or not?

Thanks


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I don't know who Gail is Camil. But if you are thinking of signing a contract with ABP, I would just read the comments here and go to Predators and Editors and read what feedback they have gotten about ABP.

By no industry standards are they a true publishing house. They are nothing but a vanity publisher that is touting themselves as a legitimate publisher. There isn't a publisher on the planet that charges the author up front fees of any kind. Period. Only vanity publishers do that.

if it was me knowing now what I know I'd never sign with them.

Thanks for writing and stopping by. Carol


thinlay 5 years ago

thank you so much for this. i was about to send that $880 for new authors to ABP. Thank god. it didn't happen.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I love getting these comments. Thanks thinlay - it always makes my day to hear from people like you!


Dee 5 years ago

Any writer who has submitted to either publishers or agents knows it could be months before they learn the status of their submission. Simply put, both are innundated with submissions, both have not the staff to be more timely. What would be so beneficial in understanding the C. Lee Nunn scam is for all who have posted here regarding an ABP acceptance to infrom us of the time between submission and acceptance. Given ABP sell few, if any books, to the general populace, rather their sales are to writers, it is near impossible for them to respond to the number of submissions they claim to receive without a massive staff.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

The turnaround time is usually within days. So as you say Dee, that alone should be a big red flag. I can only hope this Hub/blog keeps helping at least some aspiring authors. Judging from the comments and my email, this Hub has done some good. Thanks for your comments Dee.


Dee 5 years ago

I can agree with your last post, however your experience goes back years. It would be best if the others who posted regarding acceptance gave an update as to turn around time.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - while my experience goes back years, read some of the comments. Plus, I just heard from someone via email who lost "a ton of money" to ABP - she wouldn't go into detail, afraid of the gag clause in her contract she sadly signed. I hear from about two to three every few months who have been terribly ripped off, by ABP. Their experiences are VERY recent. Many of them write privately because they are afraid of the gag clause.


Dee 5 years ago

It is a simple request; those who have posted here regarding an acceptance from ABP, please post regarding the time from submiutting to the time of acceptance. I realize people sign, lose money and are afraid to post. My request has nothing to do with that, though it is very telling for others to know that a rapid accpetance from ABP clearly indicates the manuscript was not read, there is not plentiful or experienced staff to turn around submissions at a speed greater than real publishers. It would clearly indicate that acceptance has nothing to do with content or saleability to the general reader, rather the commencemnet of the scam to gain money from writers buying bulk quantity of their books. I have read the commnets, none reflect timing.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Good point Dee. For the ones who do not sign with ABP it would be simple for them to indicate the length of time it took to get a response. As you said, a very swift turn-around would be a sure indicator that the submission wasn't even read. Thanks.


Carioca 5 years ago

My book was accepted and ABP sent me about 12 emails before they gave up.

My last message them.

I repeat, "I'm not sending you ANY MONEY."


Camil 5 years ago

Hello again

Their answer came fairly quickly and favorably,just asked for 880 dollars in advance.

Acquisitions Director to me

show details Dec 9

Thanks Camil,

Have you submitted your manuscript around yet? If not you may not have found out that what I said in my last e-mail to you is the facts of the industry now, not the old myths about new authors getting advance cash contracts. We are a highly reputable company. We have the highest rate of author satisfaction in the industry, and we can prove it with over 400 author references on our site complete with their full names and book titles. You will not find that on any other publisher you have submitted too.

This is a rare opportunity for you that might never come again, we only select about 80 books a year like yours to publish and we give them a significant investment to succeed.

If you don't believe me try to submit to that list of other traditional publishers I gave you and you will find out quickly, making it into our new author program with the fully returnable deposit is a great honor and opportunity that is not likely to come around again. If it is a financial concern, we can put the deposit on your credit card or you can send in $100 now to keep your contract from expiring and the rest next year as you can afford it.

Sincerely,

Gail


Dee 5 years ago

Interesting reply from ABP. By what industry standard do they make the claim "We are a highly reputable company. We have the highest rate of author satisfaction in the industry,...," certainly by no standard I have ever read. The only true standard regarding reputation is how well titles sell. Poor quality -editing, content etc- are quickly identified by reviewers and the buying public. Poor contracts, no royalites and writers will leave. To be certain there is not one single source that has praised ABP. To the contrary there are numerous that report abuse and downright lying. As much as ABP would like the deposit, they hedge their bets on getting writers to buy into their lies or getting the rights to the manuscript, either to coerce writers into following their "marketing plan" or to get writers to buy back the rights. This above how telling it is for such a quich reply to a submission. As for the 80 titles a year: simply look at their selling arm and you can count few new titles listed. Could be both the lack of editors to do more than spell check as well as writers baulking at the "buy inb bulk for reviewers" scheme and having the work on the books "held up" until required tasks are completed. C. Lee Nunn refers to these writers as uncooperative. I refer to thema s either too poor to pay or too wise to be duped again.


Aono 5 years ago

As an example of the poor editing ABP writers receive: note the first two sentences from the ABP letter to Camil:

"Have you submitted your manuscript around yet? If not you may not have found out that what I said in my last e-mail to you is the facts of the industry now, not the old myths about new authors getting advance cash contracts."

HAVE YOU SUBMITTED YOUR MANUSCRIPT AROUND YET? My God, how could anyone in publishing present such garbage. Have you submitted to other publishers or agents? We all know the subject. And "around yet".

"...what I said in my last e-mail to you is the facts of the industry..." "is the facts". Are the facts dunderhead.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Aono - LOL! Great point! In fact, that is exactly how I knew the first alias Nunn used (Nathan Fitzgeral) when corresponding with me wasn't some "Nathan", it was Nunn. I even wrote back referring to her as Cheryl. Then she rapidly replied I was mistaking this person (Nathan the supposed email author) for someone who previously was with ABP blah blah. More typos, numerous grammatical errors. So I replied to that with, "I recognize the poor writing. I have all of your old emails and this letter from "Nathan" was pretty much identical to all of your old emails." To which I added - you may have swindled me out of quite a bit of money. You are obviously still trying to do this to others, but I will make it my business to try and stop others from making the same mistakes (she had threatened to seek legal action if I didn't take down my MySpace account about ABP). I told her I believe someday she'd be caught. And then I added, "At least I sleep at night. Betting you don't." I never heard from her personally again. She tried to get this blog taken down, but the Hubpages team stood by my free speech rights.

Which also leads me to believe she'll never sue. Hoping this will encourage others to speak out about her scams.

Nunn watches this blog/Hub. Once it was revealed she has a Facebook account, I noticed it disappeared later on. However, she may have just blocked me. If you can find her again - let me know if you would. I'd be interested to see what she's doing these days. Thanks for your insightful comments.

Carol


anon 5 years ago

just key word cheryl nunn, she's on face book, same picture, same references to her ebing a green publishing consultant. I wonder if she pays herself as a consultant when owning ABP? I know early on (merely wayback to see the first ABP web pages) C Lee Nunn referred to herslef as joining ABP not founding same. Interesting though, when Forbes sued for trademark ingringements they served her. Only prove her lie. But then ABP also claimed they didn't make money unless the writer did. Again a lie to make it appear ABP relied on sales to the general reading population rather than to writers buying in bulk. And too she referneced her marketing staff getting the word out. Again another lie. And too, her reputation in the industry for content editing. Exactly who measures that is unknown but nevertheless another lie. I could go on, but why waste space.


anon 5 years ago

just key word cheryl nunn, she's on face book, same picture, same references to her ebing a green publishing consultant. I wonder if she pays herself as a consultant when owning ABP? I know early on (merely wayback to see the first ABP web pages) C Lee Nunn referred to herslef as joining ABP not founding same. Interesting though, when Forbes sued for trademark ingringements they served her. Only prove her lie. But then ABP also claimed they didn't make money unless the writer did. Again a lie to make it appear ABP relied on sales to the general reading population rather than to writers buying in bulk. And too she referneced her marketing staff getting the word out. Again another lie. And too, her reputation in the industry for content editing. Exactly who measures that is unknown but nevertheless another lie. I could go on, but why waste space.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I can't argue anything you've written anon. And just a tip - I moderate everything that goes up here. I have to approve it first, sometimes it takes me awhile to get to it. So if you comment and it doesn't show and it seems like a long time - shoot me an email: cjv123@comcast.net

I appreciate your insights and comments.

Carol


anon 5 years ago

On the old Speculations thread the ABP site was caught plagarizing on more than one occasion. Imagine that, a publisher plagarizing, but then ABP is not a publisher but a printer who charges writers outrageous prices. C. Lee Nunn responded, never denying but claiming to be a "lowly" administrator. This too proved a lie. It was demanded of C. Lee Nunn, on that same thread by ABP writers, to produce copies of the supposed press releases she claims to send as well as full accounting of royalties. None were produced. It was these claims and the lack of fulfiullment that lead -to my understanding- into the police investigation of both her and her company. Indeed, she has been investigated. Does that not say much about her operation, her deceitful practices? Merely check the number of times ABP has moved locations over the years, very telling indeed. Check the frequency the phone number has changed, her preference for email communications. Much can be read into not sending anything via U.S. Postal Service. Mail fraud is an offence. Merely read the old Speculations comments where input from attorneys was included commenting on helping writers get out of their contracts with C. Lee Nunn. Writers wanting out? For what reasons if the desire is to be published. Simply, they found they were not published as C. Lee Nunn made them think they were, buit caught in a trap of sold rights, demands to buy bulk, unpaid royalites. C. Lee Nunn, with no experience in publishing, with no desire to really publish, no willingness or ability to perform those functions necessary to sell books, claims she and her creation are publishers. It is false. Publishers PAY WRITERS FROM BOOK SALES. An advance, if offered, is based upon the potential sales. Legitmate vanity and co-op presses charge writers, but do nothing to hide that fact. C. Lee Nunn charges writers but claims not to be a vanity press. No matter how she might explain away the charges, it remains, the writer pays. That by definition is not a commercial publisher.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Keep it coming Anon. And with regard to the Facebook profile. I can't see her profile. When you block someone, they can't even see that you exist on Facebook (as I understand). I'd have to friend a friend of hers - and check their news feed. That would be the only way. At least, that's the way I understand it. Under my Facebook sign-in when I do a search for her, I can't find her any longer. That was shortly after it appeared here that she was on Facebook. I did see her profile for a day or two, now I can't. So if you can find some way I can sneak in to look at her profile let me know via my private email: cjv123@comcast.net

Carol


anon 5 years ago

try key wording "Cheryl Nunn" sans quotes on Google.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

How I was able to find the woman outside of Facebook (thanks to your tip anon) is beyond me. Thanks.

Carol


bfrazier 5 years ago

How can i thank you.... at first i was devastated but am so thankful i read this before signing anything...although just knowing they have my manuscript makes me feel violated. When you have worked so hard on something so precious to you .... well you know!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I'm just grateful that you didn't sign bfrazier. If I helped you avoid a disaster like I experienced, then that's all the thanks I need!

Don't worry about them doing anything with your manuscript. They don't even read what they get - they won't use it. Their scam is to make money off their authors - they won't steal your manuscript. They only want to steal your money.

I'm very grateful you left your comments. Keep your chin up and be encouraged - you aren't out thousands of dollars and the loss of the rights to your manuscript!

Carol


Leendert 5 years ago

Just got an e-mail with my first name from one Kathleen Montgomery, San Franciso Bay Area with an invation to join her professional network on LinkedIn. (in my own profile on LinkedIn I wrote a few weeks ago about my intention to publish a non-fiction book in Dutch and English about the events of the ten crewmembers of a B-17 Flying Fortress, after their crashlanding near Utrecht (Netherlands) in february 1944. This Kathleen had to find my name there. Her invitation was:

"Leendert,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Kathleen Montgomery

Kathleen Montgomery

Director of Operations at American Book Publishing

San Francisco Bay Area"

An alarmbell ringed with the name of this company. I thought I read your warning a few month's ago. And I was right.

Then, I searched for the profile of this Kathleen Montgomery, but no photo, no past experience, just:

"Kathleen Montgomery

Title

Director of Operations at American Book Publishing

Demographic info

San Francisco Bay Area | Publishing

Current:Director of Operations at American Book Publishing

Kathleen Montgomery's Experience

Director of Operations American Book Publishing

Publishing industry

Currently holds this position"

I suppose it's a new AKA of Cheryl Nunn, now active on LinkedIn, searching for new victims.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

EXACTLY Leedart! I'm so glad you wrote and thank you for the updated information. Nunn used to be a commodities trader or something of the like out of California - so it's probably why she chose that "area." Interesting who someone with no previous publishing/editing experience could land the "coveted" job of "Director of Operations" at ABP. Isn't that just amazing?!

We can only hope that the more the word gets out, no matter how many times she changes her aliases, she'll finally be the one scammed and caught. Thanks again for your very important information.


anon 5 years ago

All C Lee Nunn has to perpetuate her scam are the quotes from ABP writers. Some are questionable as to veracity but all only indicate the initial "thrill" of acceptance and seeing the cover art. I recommend to all who get an acceptance letter from ABP to inform them that before you sign you desire to contact some of these quoted writers. I assure you ABP will tell you no, that they don't want their writers bothered. I will tell you this, I have contacted several. Some will be reluctant to communicate, explaining thety fear it is C. Lee Nunn making certain they do not speak. Some will inform that they have received "threatening" emails from abp "LEGAL" department that unless they list all the other ABP writers thay know are talking actions may follow. Does that sound like a legit organization? IS that a "publisher" one wants to have control of both your manuscript and life?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Exactly anon - for the reasons you listed and so many other reasons, ABP couldn't possibly be a legitimate publisher. I can attest to the fact that they even have a positive review from ME. I never wrote it! I asked that it be removed but it of course, was not.

I also point out, what legitimate publishing company has to post their "positive" experiences for page after page anyway?

Thanks for leaving your comments!

Carol


Dave 5 years ago

The reputation of a commercial publisher is basically two fold. 1) Knowing and finding what can sell and 2) Building reader awareness in order to generate sales. NO REAL COMMERCIAL PUBLISHER CAN REMAIN IN BUSINESS IF SUBSTANTIAL NUMBERS OF READERS ARE NOT BUYING BOOKS. Any "publisher' that replies on sales to writers and friends and family of same is likely a vanity press. Most vanity or self-publishers are honest to the extent they neither hide the fact nor disguise their fees. Frankly, when have you seen any quotes from any writer published by any commercial publisher strewn on the publisher's web site? Authors will acknowledge their editor in print in the book. What real publisher would desire to have writer quotes for other potential writers to read? The publisher care about the quality/saleabilty of the manuscript. They don't need some other writer to attact talent. They sign talent by paying an advance or at least making the writer aware they intend to do all they can to generate sales so both the writer and publisher can make money. ABP does not promotes the books they print. They do nothing to build reader awareness. This is all on the writer and in most cases few know how. What "advice" ABP provides first relies on the writer buying hundreds of their own books to send to reviewers. The hope: good reviews generate reader interest. First, most if not all reviewers will nott accept books sent by writers, these are considered and likely self-published and reviewers have little time to read anything that will likely be poorly edited say nothing of having some criteria of publishabilty. It is the publisher who sends review copies and their reputation that makes reviewers take the time to read.


Gina McGavin 5 years ago

Hi Everyone

I was on the interent looking for a publisher in the American market. I was very interesed in the comments made by previous writers. I was offered a contract for my novel with ABP. Fortunately some of it didn't seem right and it sent alarm bells ringing in my head. I had it checked by a lawyer who advised me not to touch it as it seems to be a sort of scam. I didn't send my manuscript only 2 random chapters and a synopsis,so when she said they had liked my manuscript I became suspicious. I think she is also using the name Gail and I am copying and pasting the email from her to me. Also I received and invite from Kathleen Montgomery that I have copied and pasted. I am Scottish and it seems like the scam net is broad. I hope my information helps to catch these fraudsters and give them the justice they deserve that is nothing less than Prison

Gina McGavin

Dear Gina,

We are highly selective of what we publish. In fact, we publish an average of only 80 titles annually and allow only a few first time authors into our New Author Program. It is quite an honor for an author to be accepted and given a contract from American Book Publishing.

Your book publishing contract is the standard form used by many large traditional and respected publishers today. If you feel you need legal advice or would like to understand better what the various clauses mean, additional information can be found in the "The Writer's Legal Companion" by Brad Bunnin, which is available to order from Amazon.com.

We pay cash advances to celebrities, successfully published authors and authors represented by respected literature agents as do other traditional book publishing companies, but we also provide a unique program in the industry for a few new or non published authors, or authors who do not have agent representation. Details about this program were included on the web page you read to submit your manuscript at: http://www.american-book.com/authorinfo.html

Please sign your attached contract and mail it back along with a returnable deposit of $880 to us so we can begin the process of publishing your title at:

American Book Publishing

5442 So. 900 East # 146

Salt Lake City, UT 84117-7204

Our review editor mentioned how engaging your manuscript was and highly recommended it to our book publishing committee. The publishing committee voted to accept it because they believe it has a strong potential to succeed with you and the staff of our book marketing department working together.

Please reply by e-mail so we know that you have received your signed contract correctly and when we can expect to receive your contract back in the mail.

We extend to you our warmest welcome from our publishing house at American Book Publishing and hope to enjoy the close relationship with you that we build with all our authors. We will begin our work by assigning you one of our exceptional professional content & development editors when your paperwork arrives at the office.

If you have any questions at all please do not hesitate to e-mail me, I'm here to help :)

Sincerely,

Gail

--

Abigail Woodward Wright

Acquisitions Director

info@american-book.com

AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHING

http://www.american-book.com

This e-mail transmission contains information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by or to any other person is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies.

G,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Kathleen Montgomery

Kathleen Montgomery

Director of Operations at American Book Publishing

San Francisco Bay Area

Confirm that


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Thank you so much for adding to the comments Gina - your information is valuable. Great - they loved your "manuscript" when you only sent three chapters and are willing to SIGN you based on THREE chapters. That should tell ANYONE right THERE to stay far, far away from this mess. Unless you were Madonna or some other such celebrity, what in the world would motivate a publisher to sign a brand new author on after reading only a small portion of their manuscript? Great stuff! Thank you so much!


Gina McGavin 5 years ago

Hi

I am happy to expose anyone who deliberately intends to fraud other people. Authors as you probably know are not rich people. They are ordinary people who have worked hard and sacrifised a lot to write their novel/novels. So why should anyone get away with stealing it from right under their nose! Its despicable and I am all for closing the net on such people.

My email from the one who calls herself Gail or Abigail Woodward Wright was as recent as 15th March. The power of the internet is wonderful and it should not be underestimated the power of the people to expose such scams.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Again, thank you Gina very much for taking the time to add to this area where I hope we can continue to help others.


anon 5 years ago

Loved Gina's acceptance letter. Advances paid to esablished authors? And exactly which ABP title os from an established author. Better yet, what established author would submit to ABP? The refundable deposit? Name one APB writer who has had their deposit returned. And why a deposit? Any publisher that had a review committee must certainbly be successful enough and knowledgeable enough not to need a deposit. Let's face it, no real publisher requires a deposit, by definition deposits go toward work. If so, does that mean editing, cover design or promotion. Would seem the writer is paying. "We extend to you our warmest welcome from our publishing house at American Book Publishing..." What??? our publishing house at? They're one and the same. Gina's attorney hit the nail on the head -pardon the cliché. It looks like a scam. Indeed they are.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

anon - I KNOW - I was going to mention that. When I read her comment I said outloud to my Mac screen - "Name ONE established author with any ABP imprint! WHAT A CROC!


anon 5 years ago

Merely check out ABP's selling arm: Publishers Direct Discount Bookstore. Virtually all titles listed are ABP. Though Pdbookstore claims to be independent one must find it strange that only one publisher's titles are available. Interesting as well, if this "bookstore" had both credabilty and a presence in the indusrty other publishers should desire to be listed. We could debate the nomenclature: discount till the cows come home. Needless to say, the average discounted price is still several fold above industry standards. Additionally, note how the ABP writers direct any potential reader to this site. And how successful can Pdbookstore be? Given the average sales of any ABP title on Amazon is less than five copies per year, given Amazon is both widely known and Pdbookstore with no indistry promotions is not, it is fair to say any sales through Pdbookstore are from ABP writers directing friends and family to that site, since few other readers buy ABP books. I doubt any legitmate publisher is even aware of Pdbookstore, but if so would see no benefit in making their titles available thorugh such an unnown entity.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I have a good friend in publishing in New York City, Madison Ave. for over 25 years - she has never heard of American Book Publishing. I wish I had gone to her first before I signed on with their con.


Gina McGavin 5 years ago

Hi Again

I thought I would take the time to copy and paste the leagal relevant part of my ema?l from my Lawyer re ABP. In the hope that others will read it and be warned. I did do a writers course and it covers all the legal aspects of publishing. Of course I was excited to get an offer to publish my novel from ABP but I took independent legal advice Thankfully I did!!

There is a very good book The Writers and Artist Year Book they have the listings of reputable publishers all over the world for magazine and newsapaper publishers as well as book publishers. You can get 5 free checks as a non member but if you register you can search every publisher listed, registration is free. I was advised to get this book when I did my writers course and it is an invaluable tool. simply type www.writersandartist.co.uk

Good luck to all aspiring authors

Gina

Gina

Gerard passed on your email below as I work in the Business Advisory department of the firm and deal regularly with commercial contracts of this nature. I have had a quick look over the correspondence you have had with American Book Publishing ("ABP") and wanted to give you my preliminary thoughts.

It is not entirely standard for an author to give any form of deposit and further, this payment does not appear to be dealt with in the contract itself therefore you would have no contractual right to depend repayment in the event that the book does not get published. You could take enforcement action against them however the potential costs of this would likely be prohibitive. In this regard, and given the numerous websites I found following a simple Google search which warn authors against involvement with ABP, I believe that the whole arrangement is something of a scam whereby you would never see your initial deposit returned and no book will be published.

Even if they did proceed to publish your work the contract terms themselves are heavily in their favour and you would be well advised to negotiate quite considerably with them before signing anything - a process that I suspect they would be reluctant to engage in.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Thank you Gina! You had wise council!


anon 5 years ago

NO REAL COMMERCIAL PUBLISHER EXPECTS OR REQUIRES THE WRITER TO PAY ANYHING. The axiom: the money flows to the writer. The term "traditional publisher" is one coined by Publish America and ABP. There is no such animal. There are commercial publishers and vanity presses. The honest of the latter let it be known upfront what monies are expected from the writer. Dishonest will disguise the purpose of the money paid by writers. Its that simple. If you're asked to pay its a vanity press.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Keep it coming Anon!!


viveresperando profile image

viveresperando 5 years ago from A Place Where Nothing Is Real

thank you for sharing your story. I truly believe by sharing your story you have helped many aspiring writers!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I hope so viveresperando! That's why I do what I do! To help others avoid my heartache and loss of money. Thanks for leaving your thoughts.


Marilyn Stout 5 years ago

I am sorry to hear aabout your terrible experience with ABP. I am sorry, too, that I did not have the savvy to investigate into ABP BEFORE signing a contract with them. I will admit that I was gullible, and I believe in the value of my book, so I believed that ABP actually found it to be worth something to them. Believing that it must be "the way it is done", like a lamb led to the slaughter, I signed the contract and sent the $880. However, when I received the "Author's Guide" from ABP I began to suspect something was amiss. When I read that I was expected to purchse hundreds of copies of my book and send them out to reviewers (an added monstrous cost) I knew I would not be cooperating. There were case stories of people who set a goal of making a million dollars who sold their homes, bought motor homes, and traveled about the USA speaking weekly or more often at meetings they had arranged, and selling their books. I knew that was not in my future. My husband is a pastor, and, although I do occasionally speak at Ladies' meetings of various sorts, I knew I could not travel the nation speaking to sell my books. I could not sell our house, either - we live in a parsonage - a house belonging to our church. When I read the information about writing a letter to send with each of the hundreds of books, I was instructed to write the letter as if it were sent from a representative of ABP (they would provide their letterhead paper if I bought a certain number of hundreds of my book)and sign it with that woman's name. I was instructed in the guide that reviewers rarely consider books sent by self published or vanity published authors, so it had to appear as if it came from the publisher. I emailed that I could not do that. It was dishonest and unethical, and if it was supposed to be sent by the publisher, why did not ABP send the review copies? I received no response to that email, but in 2010 a new "Author's Guide" was sent to me via the web. In this new version, I was instructed to form my own DBA under a professional sounding name, have professionally printed stationery, and send the letters as if written by someone other than me (the author) and signed by someone else. The same caution was repeated about reviewers not taking the time to consider a self published or vanity published work. I again emailed a query why ABP does not send the galleys, and I was told that publishers do that only for established or famous authors.

I emailed that if I sent the books from my DBA, it would obviously not be sent from ABP, and therefore, why would any reviewer take the time to look at it, according to ABP's own warnings? I received no reply.

Because I was urged, twice, to send correspondence in another name than my own, I really wonder if I am conversing with several different personages at ABP as I email my queries and comments, or if it is always Cheryl Nunn, listed under several email addresses and made up names!

Thank you for your information, and thank you to everyone who has contributed helpful info here. I have received one copy of my book. I don't hope to ever see another.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

It's probably Nunn under different names every time. I'm so sorry you lost your money. Just attempt to look on the bright side and see at least you didn't lose as much as some.

The very insidious thing about APB is - reviewers - legitimate ones, won't review her books (ABP books) anyway. So all of that letter-writing was for naught anyway. ABP stationery or otherwise, no true publishing reviewer - other than private bloggers - will ever review an ABP book.

If you have a copy of that first contract asking you to sign someone else's name - could you send that to me? Either contract would do actually. I'd love it scan it and post it on an "update" here. You can email me at cjv123@comcast.net


anon 5 years ago

So ABP instructs writers to lie. Not too surprising, but that some actually follow through speaks of their own lack of morality. ABP is correct, reviewers seldom consider self-published books. Simply put, there is no backing of a commercial publisher, implicit, the manuscript was reviewed, was found acceptable and properly edited. But more telling, ABP will provide letterheads. What that says is they are not willing to spend a dime even trying to con reviewers into thinking the books are from a real commercial publisher. And too, it says they know few if any reviewers will bother, eihter knowing ABP is a vanity press, or they are nor aware of ABP, so why bother. To the latter, what's that say about ABP wanting, even trying to creat an industry presence. All the more proof that the writer is the sole source of income.


Dee 5 years ago

Note, one only discovers the deceitful practices after they sign the contract and pay their deposit. Expecting someone to sign another's name is both forgery and fraud. Sending these via postal is criminal. NOte that ABP sends all communications via email. Could it be to avoid the criminal act of sending by USPS?


Dee 5 years ago

Phoney names, phoney companies -DBA- all to dupe reviewers. Have I got this wrong? A phoney deposit, a phoney review committee, phoney claims about an industry respected reputation, not making money unless the writer does, phoney claims there marketing program is designed to reach "the broadest range of readers". Have I missed anything there as well? A phoney independent bookstore. And C. Lee Nunn actually expects her captive writers to go along with the scam. Before I pitied ABP writers. Now I suspect some actually lack moral fiber, have knowingly done as asked. There is truth in the expresssion that no one can get conned unless they too were looking for easy gains.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - don't paint all of us who were conned with the same brush. Nunn has changed her "contract" too many times to count. So you might be able to say that about those who recently have signed - especially with this "fake the name" business - but for years - she's only made promises from her end - we'll publish, market and distribute your book for you. I don't see how a brand new author who isn't published could be faulted for signing on the dotted line to that. Nunn is responsible for the most part because she preys on eager writers wanting their book in print.


dee 5 years ago

I was not painting all with the same brush. All are conned up front, none understand what is expected until they sign and then receive their guide. I was specific, those who are instructed to sign other's names,or send letters as if they were sent by another, creat phoney DBAs and do so get little pity from me; their moral fiber was challenged and in my opinon they failed the test. They are delibertley trying to scam others all to sell their own books.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Good point Dee.


Amelia 5 years ago

I just wanted to comment on the above posted comment concerning the editors.

"And ABP covers all genres and pays editors royalties from sales -alone NOT a standard practice. If books sell at less than ten copies/year, and ABP claims to accept only 80 title/yr. not much there to pay even a single editor. So what level of talent can they attract? More so what talent to cover all those genres? More so, what qualified editor would ever accept royalties?

Get the idea, writers pay for the services of some very less than qualified editors with little or no experience and certainly no reputation to get any reviewer interested, and certainly with no experience to cover all the genres.

So the writer pays for poor editing from unqualified editors with little motivation to do better."

I would just like to say as an editor who does work for royalties, I resent this implication. I hold an MA in Literature, and have had an opportunity to work with at least one NY Times Bestselling Author. The fact that the more successful my author's works are, the more money I receive is a very strong motivation to work through various manuscripts to the best of my ability.


Anon 5 years ago

First, editors working for royalties is not how any real commercial publisher operates. They pay for work, either as salary or an agreed upon amount if working with free-lance editors. That you have a unique relationship with an author, based upon royalties is most certainly not the norm. Second, the topic is American Book Publishing and C. Lee Nunn. Given the low sales volumes of ALL ABP books and the time necessary to perform quality editing, there is no incentive for any editor with any level of skill to remain. I doubt one with your credentials would edit a complete manuscript for only a few dollars, at least not as habit. Do the math. 80 titles/year @ 10 copies/title sold to readers (likely the high end) @ $20 per copy @ 10% royalty yields $1600 dollars shared among all editors at ABP. How many books can the typical, qualified editor handle successfully in a single year? At least to a level above spell-check, and we can both agree that is not really editing. Third, what qualified, and more specifically experienced, editor would not first check out the publisher with whom they might work to determine how well their titles sell in order to get a feel for what level of compensation they might expect; especially true since APB editors are assigned to writers, which appears opposite to your experience. In all, I doubt you would ever work for ABP, as such,I fail to understand how the comment regarding keeping or attracting qualified editors at ABP is offensive to you.


Dee 5 years ago

A skeptic by nature I was not overly surprised to read the previous post from the offended, royalty paid editor. Not surprised because only those seeking information about C. Lee Nunn or American Book Publishing would know of this site. I tried goggling "How are editors paid" (salary or hourly were the replies); “are editors paid royalties on book sales,” one interesting article that states it is occasional, certainly not the norm and question the wisdom in that the publisher foots the risk. But also states bonuses are paid to some editors ( suggests based on sales) and pay raises, say nothing of keeping one’s job is too based upon sales performance of the titles.

Back to my skeptism. I note this editor’s words “I would just like to say as an editor who does work for royalties, I resent this implication.” What implication? Explicit was the reference to ABP, low sales and thus lack of incentive for anyone with any measure of qualification to ever consider working for say nothing of remaining with such an operation. In turn, what editor would continually attempt to perform to their maximum level of skill if consistently paid little. It appears the offended editor agrees with the conclusion, “the more money I receive is a very strong motivation to work through various manuscripts to the best of my ability.” “…have had an opportunity to work with at least one NY Times Bestselling Author.” How ambiguous, “at least one.” It strongly suggests this type of royalty relationship is not normal in the industry, and in this case, the royalty relationship appears to be with only one author; or, the phrasing misleading. Regardless, I doubt this editor, if sales were minimal, would as willingly venture into this type of relationship again. To the point of this site, it is ABP’s claim of being a “traditional” publisher and the manner in which they pay editors is not standard, nor traditional and certainly not just compensation for the time spent no matter the level of expertise.

Nit picky on my part? Certainly it is, for I remain curious how this editor happened upon this site. It would make sense only if they were offered such a relationship with ABP and were dong background research. If so, I would expect thanks for the warning rather than claims of being offended. What exactly is offensive as is why this editor happened upon this site and felt the need to reply remain mysteries.


spectator 5 years ago

I too am interested to know why some editor would post about royalty payment. I can see that poster's confusion, that it should have read “few qualified editors would work on royalties” would be truer, but I do agree, there is no way any qualified editor would ever do more than one manuscript with American Book Publishing. And I doubt any qualified editor would respond to some ad placed by American Book Publishing without checking them out, and after seeing all the warnings would bother with them. I think it’s strange that the publisher of a New York Times bestselling author would permit such a deal with a free lance editor unless they had extraordinary abilites, and not likely they would offer such a deal to someone currently on their payroll. The editor who posted might disagree that no qualified editor would work for royalties but to resent to observation seems to indicate some personal affront. There was none.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

There could be no editor worth their reputation that would work for ABP. They could make a mistake as has been proposed, and do one book for them, but there is no way a professional editor concerned about having any type of reputation in the industry would ever allow themselves to repeat the mistake and do more than one book. I rather doubt the testimony by the alleged editor claiming they edited a NY Times bestselling author for the reasons spectator and Dee listed above.


JGK 5 years ago

Hi--

I'm so glad I read your site with your warning about ABP. I have a contract from them but your oddysey with them has caused me to step back and hold off. Thank you for the warning.

But perhaps I can return a favor for you and help you lower your blood pressure. I'm a Mormon and proud of it. But I sat here shaking my head at the skewed inaccuracies you claim about the the religion I practice. You are hurting your credibility by your claims against people who are no different than Catholics, Baptists, J.W.'s and the like. It's people, just like you, doing their best. I just laugh when I read claims like yours pretending to be expert at something you know very little about. I've never, ever seen anything go on in this church like you've described about members covering for other members of the law. In fact, some of my best friends in the church are highway patrol, SWAT team members, FBI, you name it. They don't let another member get away with jack--anywhere. And they get very angry and perhaps tougher on anyone thinking their religion gets them off of anything--I've been a witness to that.

Your exaggerated remarks about our practices are offensive, and so off the mark. I'm offended by those false claims. I don't practice my faith that way, never have, and if the Mormon Church was the way you described, I wouldn't be a member of it. So be careful how you submit to the the slavery of your skewed perspective. Just because this publisher Nunn may be a terrible Mormon, I can introduce you to Catholics, Baptists, Jews--anyone who is an embarrassment to their faith.

I think it's high time we get off this judgemental band wagon of taking shots at other faiths. I've always been taught in my "Mormon" religion to never do that and we are always admonished to never do what you are doing--to attack another religion but to be supportive of them. We are not a cult. I live this faith with my family and children and what you said about how they live is so far from the truth, it's comical. I'm there, I see it, I live it, you don't. I can see how you've got yourself worked up about this publisher, and perhaps rightly so, but Mormonism has nothing to do with it. I could prove it, but I doubt you have the open mindedness to really see what's going on.

Calm down and relax. Do yourself a favor and put your literary rifle down. Christianity is about unity, not taking shots at others. You should know that if you read the same Christian Bible we do.

Cheers.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I'm very sorry you feel my claims about the Mormon Church aren't true. They are true. I've spent over a decade not only studying your religion, but I have had years of experience with exiting Mormons and the things that have happened to them just because they wish to leave your false religion. The disregard by Mormon authorities even when crimes are reported that are compulsory to seek further action for, go ignored when it's a former Mormon making claims against a practicing Mormon and the authorities are Mormon. It's a fact - but it's a he said she said type of thing. The thing of it is, I'm telling the truth, you're writing from the deceived mind of a cult victim.

And before you say that you'd never be a member of a church if your church did these things, then you also need to study your church history about the vast cover-ups and law breaking your church has been a party to. It's throughout your church history. Don't take my word for it - study your own church history -- not the history you're taught by your church, the newspapers of the times, the record books - documents that have no axe to grind, just reports about the facts.

Also, you are absolutely wrong when you say the Mormon Church is no different than the Catholic Church. For 2000 years, Catholicism and Protestantism or better known as Orthodox historical Christianity has been and always will be monotheistic. There are no exceptions to this. Yet Mormonism comes along in the late 1800's and starts out as monotheistic but then turns polytheistic and still is today. It would be impossible for Mormonism to be the same or "no different than" the Catholic Church. Protestants and Catholics believe in one God, three persons. Period. Mormonism not only believes in the blasphemous teachings of there being as many gods as the stars ruling over their own earths with their goddess wife, but they also believe they themselves can turn into a god someday - gods in embryo as it is taught in your Sunday schools. That is, IF good Mormons pay their tithe and marry another Mormon through the Mormon Temple Ceremony. In other words, a Mormon must pay to go to heaven. This is utter nonsense and so far from true Christianity it would be laughable were it not for the fact that Mormonism uses untold billions to bolster their reputation by paying publicity firms to dupe the world as to what Mormonism is truly about, and it's sadly working.

How much does the LDS Church take in and where does it go? The LDS Church keeps this a deep dark secret from its own members sadly!

Lastly, I've ready all of your "holy" books including the Book of Mormon more than once. I know what your church teaches and it's not even close to Christianity. Your Church doesn't believe that Jesus Christ was God who became God's Eternal Word in the flesh as John Chapter 1 teaches us. Your Church teaches Jesus was the brother of Satan. NOT Christian in ANY manner.

I am reporting facts here and can easily back it up. So your claims that I am being judgmental and making false claims are in themselves utterly false. Go do your own research and prove anything I've just said here wrong and like what has happily happened with others who have challenged me, in some cases they found I am telling the absolute truth and due to this discovery, they have left the Mormon church thankfully. Go ahead, try to prove me wrong and your eyes will be opened to the huge deception the Mormon Church has perpetrated on the world, their own members and how the Mormon Church has offended God with their blasphemous teachings.


Dee 5 years ago

Interesting that so many religions, in addition to their beliefs in some devine being/entity, the rituals to follow also provide many doctrines for how to live one's life, more so, how to interact with with your fellow man. "Do unto others..." very common among many faiths. When Christ was tested, was asked of the Ten Commandments which was most important, he replied above all, "do onto others..." We like the idea of a final judgement, both to punish the inequiteis placed upon us as well as to reward our living a moral life. That historically I find reason not to believe in the Mormon faith is my opinoin. But, I know many Mormons, know they are kind, honest people. I can not help but beleive this is part of what they receive from their faith, as I see in many Protestants and Catholics and even Muslims. I thinkl God desires us to live our lives wiht actions that are ion line with doing onto others. I think as well, this is more important than the rituals that too often become rote, their meaning too often lost. So attack away. It will do little to change my mind.


anon 5 years ago

Regarding JGK's remarks. Of utmost importance, and keeping with the purpose of this thread, they have indicated gratitude and I assume by holding off, they will not fall victim. What JGk might want to consider as well is that this site relates an acceptance of a book contrary to Mormon beliefs and after the fact desired significant changes. It is more than apparent the content was not reviewed giving further eveidnece of accepting anything merely for the purpose of begining the scam. Additionally, ABP past indicates C. Lee Nunn was attempting to dupe Mormons. What that says about susceptabilty is anyone's guess but I think it might indicate she understood how susecptable some groups are when they follow without question. Now before you nail me to the wall remember this: Utah has one of the highest rates of pyramid schemes in the country. The LDS Church is very influential in determining acceptable books. I have heard from some Mormon authors that if not accepted for Desseret books stores it is unlikely they will have any success selling their books.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Thanks anon - you're right - the comments were off topic and that will be an end to it. And in agreement with you as I've been told this numerous times, Nunn has duped unsuspecting Mormons over and over. It's especially egregious because I'm sure that unsuspecting LDS will tend to want to trust someone who calls themselves Mormon (but if you delve into Nunn's background -which they can't any longer because she doesn't use that name) Nunn hardly adheres to even Mormon doctrine. She wants the Mormon church to accept homosexual behavior. Sanction it so to speak. So the fact she calls herself LDS so she can lure her own is especially awful. She is truly a monster because she preys on people who will trust her as well as those who have dreams of becoming published.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - you are right. My beef isn't really with the LDS faithful anyway, it is with the LDS Church leadership. I have no animosity towards LDS members themselves as a rule. However, what I do have a beef with in regard to members is when they blast off with "You're not telling the truth about my church." I have no reason to make this up. What the LDS Church teaches is very simple to look up and to verify. Going to exit websites and blogs, anyone can also read about the experiences of those who try to leave the church and the horror stories that occur as a result. They ring true. Add to that the fact I personally have had an experience with a former LDS who confessed (after he left the LDS church) that he himself was very high in leadership and perpetuated these gross and terrible things against those who would "dare" leave the LDS church. I was stunned by the stories. He was ashamed and due to his exiting the church was then on the receiving end of these terrible things.

I know of what I speak/write.

Anyway - it's off topic, this is not a good place to chatter on about the fact that the LDS Church isn't a Christian church, but sadly, the only cult in American history that has managed to mainstream itself. Thanks for your comments Dee.


A Rose 5 years ago

Thank you for sparing another lamb from the slaughter. I am very sad at the state of human beings. I am a writer, but it seems few will ever read my words. How can we know who to trust?


dee 5 years ago

lest we forget Scientology. The fact that Ron L. Hubbard commneted the best way to make money was to form a religion speaks volumes. And looking at Joseph Smith's background it would seem he had some dubiousness as well. The past and even recent history are full of charismatics. Sadly, too often they do so to make a buck.But would we rather have a world of total skeptics, untrusting, unwilling to give or have scam artists feeding on these characteristics. Best is to provide information to refute the scammers, to present the cult aspects and hope people remain trusting. As to C. Lee Nunn. I hope writers will not be discouraged if conned by her BUT I wish many would take an objective look at what they write, perhaps read more from published authors. It might let many know they are not talented, a good story but no writing skills.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

As always you add volumes of solid good advice and thoughtful comments. Thanks Dee.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Rose, don't be discouraged. Someone can read your writing. More and more Indie publishers are popping up all over the place, self-publishing doesn't have the stigma it did before and if you do your research into what WON'T a true publisher ask of you - you'll be alright. When I signed on with Nunn - the internet was just catching on - and the information wasn't as plentiful as it is now. Come here and ask or go to Predators and Editors or other such avenues. One simple thing is to Bing the publishers name. Then Bing the person who contacts you. Etc. Don't get discouraged!


Dee 5 years ago

Because so many are literate, that computers are so prevelant, publishers are inundated with submissions. Thus the agent, and too many publishers relying on them as the first line of quality/sales potential. But agents get a percent of the writer's percent. A long haul before an agent can make any real money. So both the publishers and agents seek manuscripts that might fall into what is currently popular; would prefer some recognized author whose name alone will attract readers. And because of the volumes of submissions both request a query letter, perhaps a synopsis ewven before considering the actual work, that which is really all any should care about. Recall Longefellows epic poem: Evangeline. Recal the comical synopsis provided: Boy meets girl, loses girl, finds girl, kisses girl, then dies. Imagine a synpsis for To Kill a Mockingbird.

My point: far too mant might have an interesting story but have little to know skills to write the story, but access to technology. The publishing industry reacts but in reality to expediate have created obstacles to the reading the manuscript. Scammers prey upon the writers who have been rejected, are unwilling to wait the months for an agent or publisher to get around to their work. A prime time for Indies to emerge but they too become inundated, and begin to close submissions, go toward agents only. The solution: well, it would be nice if some rejections were more than form letters, some actually told the writer their work was garbage content obejctively speaking is iffy but skills are fair game. It might reduce the slush piles. But in reality it would be best if all the obstacles were removed, the mansucript is judged alone, publishers would be willing to once again nurture new talent. But then it would take time to make the sales and some publishers have little margin for nurturing. Still, it is the work that matters. Publishers should accept a brief synopsis, perhaps a chapter outine and SAMPLE CHAPTERS to view both style and flow. The best of all worlds would be an independant review board to which writers would submit their work, get some "grade" and wiht that approcah publishers. Difficult but imagine how it culls the crap and opens the doors to real talent.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee, they have those "independent" boards, but many of them - especially for Christian writers, cost money upfront and give questionable editorial advice.

I agree with everything you said and would also add, even with professional editing advice - editors disagree. Yet they agree on some rather antiquated and stupid industry standards. Not all standards are stupid, and sometimes, especially with their own "stable" of authors, after their authors have produced other books, not enforced. I just read a blog by a published author. She had multiple works under a traditional publishing house. She wrote a novel not of the normal industry standards and decided to self-publish this off-the-charts novel. Good for her. I think the time for self-publishing has arrived - and this will help prevent authors from being duped by the Nunns of this world.

My point - writers get mixed messages about their writing abilities.


dee 5 years ago

One should not censor content. But correct grammar is essential. Continuity is essential. Publishers realize that an author's name sells, but reviews matter as well. A known author who gets poor reviews will have difficulty the next go around. Publishers will reject on content: graphioc violence won't go far with a Christian publisher for example. But, all publishers desire a good story written well. To accomplish the latter means the writer needs to understand at the least the basics. My point, if it's poorly written, the writer should know. It provides an opportunity to learn the craft, it removes some of the sludge that clogs the system. It will eliminate those who are either unqualified or not willing to take the time to learn. It will speed the process of review. There will always be vanity presses catering to the market of both rejected writers and those who only want personal satisfication. NO COMMERCIAL PUBLISHER is looking only to satisfy a writer's need to be in print. They are in business to make money and expect the writer to provide the material to generate money.


dee 5 years ago

Note C.Lee Nunn's (ABP)claims of accepting 80 books a year. Note PBdiscountbookstores listing of new titles/upcoming titles. Certainly far less than 80. So could it only 80 writers submit/are accepted but with all the warnings out there only a handful sign? Could it be ABP with virtually no staff can not produce books fast enough? Or, is it another lie. Merely read the number of posts here where writers, having been accepted and having done their homework, are grateful they didn't fall victim. Add this to all the other sites and it would seem most are smart enough to chck things out before sending over $800 to someone they never met, someone wiht no publishing experience, someone who actually requests their writers to break the law in falsifying doocuments to appear as if they are coming from some reputable company.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

As usual - you leave very insightful comments Dee - thanks for your continued input and support in the fight to see this con artist in the very least - put totally out of business!


JRP 5 years ago

Well its all laid out in your warning and the posting from both sides the authors who want to believe that there are scammers working out there and the ones who don't, not matter what you tell them. I have came to this life style,(having one book accepted by an an accredit publisher, one going through editing and one a work in process) but its no different then real life.

You got people who wake up in the morning thinking how

then can steal other peoples money that beauty you

got involved with was one, the different is she is a coward, she should just get a gun and go stickup a

bank, but no they prey on peoples emotions never having put their heart and soul into writing.

I got the best kick out of the person who talked about these perfect publishers who make the rules for submissions and tell us how to forward them in a form

they require to make it easy on them and everyone tells you how hard they work and how they get so many subbmissions, it seems to me that the old saying if you can't handle the heat, get out the kitchen applies?

If these clowns were so knowledgeable, maybe they should be writing their own book? sure they be letter perfect, but I guarantee you they be boring!

Your commits about the Morons are right on their a cult not like other religions, they been trying to sell that package for years, believe me I did business with them, take the cash, hold it up to the light, then once your sure its good, give them their goods.

Good job your right on thanks for the warning, but I knew enough not to send them even stamps for returning, they in business or not?

Remember 70% of the so called Publishers print less then 4 books a year.

You Go Girl!


dee 5 years ago

I can fully understand, when posting here, how one will over look typos, the"i before" sequence. But reading some of the posts from "writers" let the last serve as example, the frequency of errors not related to explicable typos astounds me. I had to read the last post three times to understand not only what some sentences meant but the gist of the post. Much like the "editor" who worked for royalties, I question what publisher accepted that poster's manuscript if it were written in such a manner.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee, I admit, I thought the same thing.


anon 5 years ago

An editor who happens upon the site and comments upon royalties as a payment method editing. A writer "...(having one book accepted by an an accredit publisher, one going through editing and one a work in process)" I won't quibble on the term acredited, needless to say the term does not apply to a publisher, there are no certificates/licences etc. granted publishers by any group to define them as such. My concern is not so much why these individuals post, rather how they found this site. The topic remains: C. Lee Nunn and American Book Publishing. In order to find this site requires some search involving those words, be it having been offered a contract/editing work, a search of potential publishers or employers, or having issues with either Nunn or company and seeking information. That I know royalty payment to editors is not an accepted practice does not negate the concept that it might produce greater incentive, but most prefer the security of a given, regardless of industry. And what can I say about a writer "accepted by an an accredit publisher", other than to say the writer's work may have been accepeted but the writer has little knowledge of or understanding of the publishing industry to use such a term. It is possible, given many "accepted" by the likes of C. Lee Nunn prefer to beleive their work was truly accepted after due consideration. Many still believe their work was reviewed and accepted by Publish America since they did recieve and advance -be it only a dollar- because only real publishers pay advances. It is hard for most writers to accept rejection, by the mere fact of submitting, most truly beleive their work merits publishing. It is reasonable then to find some who defend their acceptance by ABP or any such entities as defending their creation; or, defending a means to be paid for editing. It does not, however, explain why they post here.


a comment 5 years ago

Reading JRP's post is akin to the fingernails on the blackboard. No publisher would accept anything that poorly written, nor consider wasting time looking for the potential of a gem, say nothing of polishing it into something salable. The grammar errors are inexcusable. It is not a matter of taking time to proof read for typos, but the lack of understadning of proper English. Their for they're, the absence of verbs...It reads as poor vernacular.

I will grant the "morons" as an attempt at humor for Mormons, but the paragraph makes no sence.


dee 5 years ago

Writers having been accepted by ABP and as yst not having signed, consider this "parable". A man takes his complete manuscript and goes to publishers, door to door and has had his work rejected by all. HE's walking down the sidewalk, finds a woman who claims to be a publisher, claims to have numerous submissions, cliams to only accept 80, and in little time cliams she reviewed the man's work and for an $800 deposit will publish it, providing she retains the rights for virtually forever. Imagine the man is you. Would you beleive the woman's claims; what if it cost nothing, would you sign away your rights? The only difference from ABP and the sidewalk publisher of the parable is location of operation. All else is equal.


paula commerford 5 years ago

GO TO MY WEBSITE-------------NEW INFO --ON PUBLISH AMERICA

THE PROMO FRAUD INVOLVING EDINBERG INTERNATIONAL BOOK FEST

BIG TIME NEWS WILL BE BREAKING SOON AS ALL COPIES HAVE BEEN SENT TO MARYLAND NEWSPAPERS

http://paulaspublishamericainformationsite.weebly....


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Paula, I commend your efforts to expose another publishing scam, but this area is for American Book Publishing. Best wishes though for your work trying to help others.


anon 5 years ago

I agree, stay on topic is best, though the story holds interest and there are similarites of PA to ABP. First, both claim to "evaluate" each mansucript sent and claim acceptance based upon some level of "publishability," that remains both undefined and unsubstantiated. Second, sales of ABP and PA books is largely the writer and/or friends and family. Third, both retain rights so long as to appear as holding them hostage. Fourth, both are vindictive,threaten anyone who opposes their "line" though PA seems to have the resources to actually sue. Fifth, both use the term: "trditional" to pertain to their publishing enterprise when that term does not apply. The term is commercial publisher. Sixth, both have produced books so full of errors to make the claim of skilled editing rather questionable. And lastly, both have generated such outrage from writers to have numerous sites warning writers to beware.


dee 5 years ago

The term, "traditional publisher" is one I believe Publish America created in an attempt to make them appear as not a vanity press. That and paying a one dollar advance. It would seem C. Lee Nunn plagarized that term for use with American Book Publishing. Not that plagarism is new to her -merely wayback the first complaints about her were in reference to plagarism. Quick aside, she blamed some editor and too claimed she was a "lowly" administrator. Interesting Forbes sent her the papers for copyright infringment.YEs, for all those who wonder about her credentials to be a publisher: there are none, merely a web site and the claim, and the term: traditional so as to dupe writers into thinking ABP is not a vanity press. Adgae always appleis, the money flows to the writer. Anyone "publisher" asking for money, no matter how its phrased or disguised IS NOT A COMMERCAIL PUBLISHER


kcr 5 years ago

I have had many reservations regarding the ABP contract that waits beside me. My biggest concern has been the lack of answers to the many questions I sent regarding marketing. The emails stated "I don't know" and "that would be best answered by the marketing department". Nothing was forwarded. So I sought out some local authors at a writer's workshop last evening. They all agreed that authors should be receiving, not paying money to get published. I'm thankful that your blog confirms all my doubts. Thank you!


anon 5 years ago

I can guarantee you had you signed and sent your money you would have recieved your "top secret" marketing package. The gist: you need reviews, the more copies of your book you send the better the chances of hitting. Suggestions of 500 or 1000 (discounted to you, what a deal) could be expected. It is the shot gun mentality, send 1000 get ten percent and you're off and running building that readship. But most reviewers won't consider a self-published book. But, you say, ABP claims to be a traditional publisher. Well, if such an enterprise existed and were not a vanity press (self published) then, many reviewers should be aware fo them and read an advanced copy. So why then doesn't ABP send the copies, absorb the cost. After all they did accept your manuscript based on potential salability. What ABP will do is tell you how to form the letter, even create a dummy name to fool reviewers into reading your work. a real publisher 1) pays you if your book sells 2) absorbs all costs 3)tells you upfront what marketing thet intend to perform, and some may say none. None will expect you to sign without providing that information. Only the dishonest will.


Renee 5 years ago

Thank the Lord I found your blog. Several months ago, I had sent ABP a query about an editing position because, at the time, I had seen them on bookjobs.com and thought they might be worth checking out for a freelance opportunity. Back then, I had been obsessed with putting more work on my resume and freelancing seemed to be my best bet since I didn't live in a large city where there were an abundance of publishing companies. I had queried other companies without so much as a response or a response asking me to complete an editing test. This seemed very normal to me and I was prepared to do these tasks. Having been accepted by Pearson Education as a freelance editor, I knew my search for a reputable freelance position had ended and put ABP out of my mind. Cut to today, I received an e-mail from a woman named Stella Jackson giving me the run down of FAQs. One of the many was "how do I get paid" and this was the response:

Our current pay for entry-level freelance editors is $100 at time of printing, as well as 5% royalties paid twice a year. We support our editors in obtaining advance positions in publishing [the] industry by providing needed and helpful letters of reference. We are proud of the many success stories we have where we will hire an editor in their first position as such, and because of their experience, portfolio of work, improved resume, and letter of reference from us, are able to secure a highly sought out full-time position with a large book publisher.

A $100 at the time of publishing? Realistically, that could be up to two years after the editing process has started. So several months to a year of work with only $100 to show for it? No thank you. And 5% royalties? I've never NEVER heard of an editor working for royalties. Pay hourly was what I thought freelancers were paid. It all just seemed very odd. And the kicker, they immediately asked me to sign a contract right away without a test or assessment or anything. It's very strange and doesn't seem very unreputable to me.

I'm sorry you found out the hard way about their dealings. I pray that God continues to walk with you through all your trials and that you continue to come out on top. God bless and thank you!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Renee- thank you so much for sharing your story. Every time I hear a story like yours - someone who avoided getting scammed by ABP - I do an imaginary high five. I LOVE getting comments/emails like this! God bless you for taking the time to let me know that I'm making a small difference.

Carol


dee 5 years ago

a 5% royalty based upon books sold to readers not bought by the writer. No book store presence really leaves on-line sources. Merely check the sales rank of any and all ABP books. MAybe five books a year. After discounts, etc thats maybe 2 dollars to an editor. You think any ediotr would remain? Think any editor with any real expereince perhaps even real quailifications would accept such a position? Ever read an excerpt from an edited ABP book? Typos, syntax issues, grammatical mistakes; imagine some ABP editor presenting that as an example of qulifications. And, if any real publisher knew of ABP, all they would know is all the negatives. Think these are good for one's resume?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

I remember when I began my nightmare with ABP - my poor editor realized she too had been duped. She worked on my book for three years with me. She was wonderful, enthusiastic and needed to stay home because of her special needs child. So this job seemed a dream job for her. She thought she'd be given enough assignments to compensate her for her work. During the three years we became close friends and she confided in me (and told me she was forbidden from doing so) that she wasn't paid until the author was published and she received a small percentage of the books sales. I was shocked. She had taken on other assignments as well as other part-time jobs to help make ends meet in her household - but had become suspicious of ABP and thus was confiding in me. Then the true underbelly of ABP was exposed when it came time to actually "publish" my book (as yet no author page as promised and contracted - not a single flyer, or other efforts by ABP - as promised - to advertise my upcoming publication along with other broken contractual promises. However - they did provide excellent editors (working, essentially for free I found out through my own editor - explaining why she had taken on Mary Kay types of odd jobs) but they were duped just as I was - at the time - finding out I was being duped. So very sad that to this day (this all happened to me i 2004 and three years prior) they can't be stopped.

Thanks for your excellent comments Dee - as always.


AudreyDavis 5 years ago

C. Lee Nunn is running around the web now posting revenge-reviews of her critics' books at places like Goodreads. She's going by the name The Write Agenda these days. Read http://afantasyfiction.blogspot.com/2011/08/write-... to see what I mean!!!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

Audrey - how do you know this is Nunn? To me - this doesn't look like the same photo of the Nunn on FB - but then - the one on FB isn't as much of a close up. She's written a book?? ROTFL! Holy cow - unbelievable! I'd rather cut off my arm than buy a book of hers but I'm betting dimes to donuts it's a poorly written as her emails are. She's a HORRIBLE writer!


AudreyDavis 5 years ago

No, no, no, Rita isn't C. Lee Nunn. Rita is someone that Nunn attacked. Nunn is calling herself "The Write Agenda" these days and is attacking a lot of people.


AudreyDavis 5 years ago

P.S. as far as I know Nunn hasn't written a book. All she writes is fake cease-and-desist letters.


dee 5 years ago

merely read any email sent by C. Lee Nunn. Grammatical errors, structural errors. Not the signs of a good writer. And given there is not some review panel, oh heck, no one reviews the manuscripts so content and skill are never the issue. The issue is getting your "deposit" and starting the ball rolling to get more money from the writer -buy 500 or 1000 of your own books to send to reviewers. Of course if you don't or demand your rights be returned, there's a fee for that. So few ABP titles sell beyond family and friends that THE ONLY WAY ABP CAN STAY IN BUSINESS IS FROM THE MONEY WRITERS PAY. Add to this the little that goes to editors or designer -they are paid on books sold to the public not books sold- that the real cost to C. Lee Nunn is maintaining her web page.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 5 years ago from Michigan Author

And Dee - she probably gets a friend or one of her "group" members to volunteer to maintain her web page - once up maintenance is a snap and other than monthly fee - little to no costs.


Lisa Hernandez 4 years ago

I can't thank you enough for posting this. Even scarier, this group actually took months to accept my book and a week to send the contract. Which means they are getting hip to the tell-tale signs, and making it even harder to recognize them as illegitimate.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

That's very interesting Lisa - you're right - she's leaned to wait then. That used to be the big tip off with her. I'm so glad though - that that gives someone a chance to research what they are getting themselves into. It at least helps the victim in that it gives them time to figure out whether or not they are being victimized. Thank you for your heads up comment. I appreciate you taking the time.


Janrae Frank profile image

Janrae Frank 4 years ago

I am a retired journalist and currently a blogger. I am investigating American Book Publishing Group. It seems like a cold case, since the police investigation happened in 2003. However, I'm still hoping to find sufficient information to write an article on. Would you be willing to share your information with me. I am willing to work on the record or off the record with you. You can get hold of me at janraefrank@gmail.com


elle 4 years ago

I work at a book review publication. We recently received an ARC from ABP, "Princes & Ogres." ABP apparently has an imprint now called Millennial Mind Publishing. Thought you'd be interested.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Thanks elle - Melliennial Mind Publishing has been an imprint of theirs for awhile - but I don't know of any books actually "published" under any of their imprints actually. Thank you though - and I'm not familiar with ARC - perhaps they are actually trying to really publish a few books - who knows with them? I do know they've left a lot of misery in their wake.


dee 4 years ago

To Janrae Frank. If you are familiar wiht ABP, merely from the research you have conducted, then you surely know C. Lee Nunn trolls to find and threaten the disgrunted writers. That you desire to write an article is interesting. To what purpose, what publications will this run and more so why ABP? As a journalist you know "However, I'm still hoping to find sufficient information to write an article on." is improper English. Regarding the police investigation and being a cold case; that this blog exists and is current suggests nothing cold other than a police investigation. Perhaps if you were more specific as to need and provide some credentails many might be more receptive.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - please do me a favor with regard to those who comment here. Save the grammatical critique unless it is specifically relevant to a) the discussion and b) the actual content of the comment the person is making. For example - if someone wrote, "I is a super good editor and I work for Nunn and she is a compantent editor she is." Then you have a reason to point out grammatical errors, typos, misspellings etc. But when someone might just be tired and whipping off a comment - or possibly ill and a bit sloppy as they post something here - try to let that go. I know Janrae called herself a journalist - so that may seem an open door - but honestly - you sticking that in about her grammatical error seemed a bit mean-spirited to me. I'm sure you've made a mistake or two at some time in your life when you've written something that you've posted. I know I have. So try to be a little light on that in the future if you would. I value your input here very much - but I'd appreciate it if you would follow that in the future. Thanks in advance.


AudreyDavis 4 years ago

The Write Agenda (AKA C. Lee Nunn) has been slagging off Janrae Frank for some time over at Ripoff Report. Make your own decision about Janrae's investigation, but she is no friend of Nunn's.

See:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/miscellaneous-companie...


anon 4 years ago

I note than Janrae has not replied to an above post as to why she is pursuing an article on ABP or where she intends to place it. In spite of Dee's "editorializing" Dee's questions are legitimate. Few are aware of ABP unless thay have had some form of contact or seek information. Some have run blogs warning about ABP such as Strauss and Crispin. There are general sites of warning as well. Why an article? Would it provide more than the detailed accounts in existence of those scammed?


hessecorp 4 years ago

What is thier web page address. I would like to know for certain granted much of the information you have provided here shows that the acceptance to publish I recieved is this same company you are talking about. But I wanted to double check and triple check then check again. I want to be an author badly but not so much I would blindy give my work out.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I don't feel I should give out their address. And you wouldn't see anything negative on their own website. Don't be foolish. They are not a legitimate publisher. American Book Publishing is a scam. Try to find even one of their books in Barnes and Noble for example. They've. Een around about a decade but can't get any book stores to carry their books? Use common sense.


anon 4 years ago

to hessecorp. If you received an acceptance from American Book Publishing Group -never found anyone who hadn't- then your finding this site and hopefully others warning of that company should be more than adequate.


PG 4 years ago

NETWORKING, By Theodore Zabora is on Barnes and Noble; Here Dead We Live by Andrew MacQuarrie; Through Angel's Eyes by Deyzel; Jimmy Mack by Lawrence Hilliard; Embassy Intrigue by Roger Neetz; Give Teens A Break by John Morella ... and that was just on the first page of their published works. I have not signed a contract with ABP, but believe if you are going to make a claim like the one made about their books being on Barnes & Noble, it should be accurate ...


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I would venture to say that while they can be on their website - unless it is very, very recently - ABP has zero books in BRICKS AND MORTAR stores. Virtually anyone can get their books onto any book website (save CBD as they screen very carefully). But getting books into libraries and brick and mortar stores as I understand - is quite a different story. walk into any bookstore and see if ABP books are stocked. My bet - if I were a betting woman - would be NOT.


dee 4 years ago

to PG 2. On or in Barnes and Noble? I suspect on line order, in fact know it for a fact. And until I read your post I was unaware these tiles existed, certainly an indication of lack of publicity even on the part of the author. But lets be frank, check the sales ranking of each title, compare that to the deposits each of the aforementioned writers paid. the result, each has lost money. Now, if one's goal is merely to have one's manuscript in print form, so many alternatives exists, most less costly than ABP. Additionally, I doubt any of the writers you mentioned signed with ABP believing them to be a vanity press, but actually believed they were signing wiht a real publisher whose exitense relies on book sales to more than the author and the author's family and friends. that is the point of this site and so many others: ABP is not a real publisher. No real publisher expects or requires writers to pay to get books in print.


Smarter Now 4 years ago

Thank you so much. I used the Writer's Market to find publishers. Found 9 and sent letters in August 2011. I got a response from ABP in late September saying 'congratulations, we're accepting your book for publishing". I then read all the crap they sent me about author testimonials and their plans to have all kinds of editors assigned to me. However, I have a friend in the publishing business in NY and she said "anyone who asks for $880 up front is a red flag". So I never signed the contract they sent. January 15, 2011 I got an e-mail from Gail as follows: "We hope your survived the holidays happy and well. As we close out the books for the New Year, we wanted to reach out to you one more time. We offered you a contract this past year to publish with us. We have just a few spots remaining open on our editing lineup for this coming spring and we would love it if you would join us!"

Tax Return season is almost upon and it is often the best time of year for our deposit contract authors to get their books going. We would love it if you would consider accepting our contract. While we know that the contract offer has expired, we are willing to keep it open to January 31st, 2012 if you would like to pick up one our last publishing spots. Please let me know if I can do anything for you."

I got fired up again and was ready to send the check until I googled ABP and found all your headaches. What a scam. I'll self publish and at least know what I'm getting into. Thanks for pointing out the stench in the publishing world.

"


Alonzo the author 4 years ago

thanks a lot for the info, it was very helpful and saved me from wasting my time


anon 4 years ago

Note smarter now's material from the ABP email. Given the errors, it is enough to indicate the poor editing/writing skills of "Gail" at ABP. Kindly note the quotation marks. It seems SFWA has now added that C. Lee Nunn may have increased the number of aliass including one named Abigail, hence Gail.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I was laughing when I read that - it is SO Nunn's pathetic style -- she's STILL duping people though and that's the sad thing --- even with crap letters like that one.


anon 4 years ago

I notice your new photo. It is your site, your choice but really... the Lions? Go Bears


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Too bad - we're die-hard, long suffering Lion's fans and will remain so! Michigan is our home and the Lions are our team! ;-)


anon 4 years ago

my daughter is at western mi working on her phd. To date she remains a die-hard chicago team supporter. Why, we haven't a clue. I'm getting old enough to worry about the "wait til next year" mantra. I could be dead.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

We're a house divided anon - my son (who is living with us until he and his wife find a home) is a Wolverine fan and my husband is a Michigan State fan. It can get ugly during any type of sport match between the two rivals...lol My husband got his masters at Western MI BTW - good school!


anon 4 years ago

so mom referees


4 years ago

I dont know what to say. I cant even think straight right now. I am so glad that I found your page. I love to write as well and was looking to go through some online book publisher to publish my books, that is Defiantly not going to happen anymore!! Thank you:)


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I love, love, love it when I get letters and comments like this! Thanks K51 for writing!


dee 4 years ago

Likley a given C Lee Nunn hasn't the money to really prusue this scam to the exent she has in the past. Merely look at how out of date her PDbookstore is and correlate that to the newer quotes on the abp website indicates fewer are signing. In part, perhaps a large measure this very site, warning of her and her company have helped keep others from falling victim. It bears repeating: no real commercial publisher takes money from writers. Money flows to writers. Alone that is all anyone needs to stay clear of ABP.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Once again - great advice and information Dee. Let's not stop the drumbeat until Nunn is bankrupt or arrested or more hopefully, BOTH.


krissalus profile image

krissalus 4 years ago

I actually almost accepted an editing job with this company very recently. Glad digging around on the Internet has its rewards...


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I LOVE letters/comments like your Krissalus! Thank you so much for taking the time to write!

Carol


louromano profile image

louromano 4 years ago

Nice hub. thank you for sharing your story. I truly believe by sharing your story you have helped many aspiring writers!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Thank you so much louromano - it would appear that I have helped at least a few and I hope more.


Nathan Fitzgearl 4 years ago

For whatever it's worth, I'm sorry I let this Cheryl Nunn fat old whore trick me and use me for my name. I truly wish I had never met this evil pig.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I would normally never allow comments like this - and I'm guessing Hubpages may demand that the comments be taken down, but until then -- I hope enough people will read this. I'd be very interested to know how Cheryl Nunn was allowed to use your name. What was the story she gave you?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Here are the comments left by someone claiming to be the real Nathan Fitzgearl - cleaned up so that they can remain:

Greetings, all. I have personally known that lying, scamming, arrogant, paranoid, money-grubbing piece of human filth, Cheryl Nunn, for several years. She used to be a close friend of my family (until she pulled her paranoid, crooked b.s. on us, but that's another story). Years ago, this lying, despicable sociopath con artist LIED and TRICKED me into permission to use my name on her business (yes, I'm the REAL Nathan Fitzgearl). I didn't know she was a scam artist at the time and like a complete idiot, I bought her b.s. story about legally giving the illusion that her business was expanding and needed a bunch of new leadership!!! I feel so stupid for it and I really, really regret ever having done that, or dealing with this evil abomination of a human being in any way. I admit it was a stupid, careless mistake on my part. She promised me it was legal and promised me $500 per year for it (of which I haven't seen a red cent. . . .as if I had to tell you).

Cheryl Nunn also has a psychotic paranoia disorder. Recently, this loathsome abomination of a woman mailed my mother a 5-page legal threat accusing her of a crime she had nothing to do with!!! And in her letter, her style of meandering, paranoid delusions, cluttered grammar and punctuation errors PERFECTLY match the raging delusions on Nunn's hate-wesite, "The Write Agenda." The Write Agenda is an exercise in psychosis that spews defamation against everyone who has badmouthed her publishing company (I assume most of you know that by now.). The problem is, Cheryl had bisexual urges for my mother and like any psycho-stalker, she got butthurt when Mom turned her down. So she's trying to use the legal system to make my mother's life as miserable as possible.

So you see, my boiling hatred of this C. Lee Nunn criminal ________ happens to be a lot more personal than yours.

I know you read these blogs, Cheryl, and I would just like to say _____ YOU, YOU EVIL, SOCIOPATH _______!!! So go ahead and file one of your frivolous lawsuits against me, you ______, and get laughed out of court, you ________ PARASITE ON ALL HUMANITY!!!


anon 4 years ago

In all the years Nathan's name has been associted with ABP and now he surfaces after ABP has removed his name and added one Abigail something or another. Not that I doubt this Nathan but how greater the impact if he posted when his name was connected. PErhaps Nathan could provide geater detail.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I was hoping the same thing - I would like much more detailed information from Nathan - but it does seem to have a ring of truth to it regardless of the lack of detailed information.


anon 4 years ago

Perhaps if there was a contract Nathan could not speak out. But then Nunn's contrtacts seem to read at no time can one speak unless of course some lawyer added a clause that only truthful experiences were exempted from silence. But who would permit their name to be used for mere appearances and after the first year and no payment sit back and remain mum?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

That's why I am able to speak out. Nunn didn't read the clause the lawyer included for my "silence". My demands were that I get the rights back to my book. She refused without a new contract written up that would include a "gag clause." The way my excellent lawyer worded it was, as long as I told the truth, I didn't sign away my free speech rights. This is one time SHE was had. She signed it, and I continue to speak out. He wanted me to take her to court and sue for damages, at the time - I just wanted the rights back and to be done with her. Knowing she signed what she thought was a gag clause and it really wasn't has given me a great deal of satisfaction over the years...So unless Nathan hires a good lawyer - he probably can't really speak out, I bet you're right anon.


dee 4 years ago

Interesting that NAtahn claims Nunn had some sexual desires for his mother and Nunn also is/was associated witj some gays in the Mormon chusrch group. It would seem the Nathan might be for real. I have no doubts her gay support group solicites fundsw which, we we be surprised to learn, she uses to "reimburse" her expences. How so many who have no talent, are unwilling to work try to find a means to look important to take other's money. Nunn claims to be a publisher with no background. She was a financil planner who was suspended because she decided rather than actually research she just churned and burned an invester, taking commissions for each transaction.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - Oh - I know Nunn is a lesbian - she was part of some group trying to convince the Mormon Church to openly accept homosexuals - I saw a news article about it awhile back before I knew what she looked like. Her name was all over the article though. So that's why this story of Nathan rings true to me.

And I know about Nunn's past with her license being revoked in California. She's a criminal from way back. I still don't understand why she's not in jail serving out more time for only God knows the things she's done. She tried to head up some other thing - where SHE was the founder - my teeth dropped out. I think that was her first Facebook page. I'm sure she took people's money then too - it was some cause - possibly some gay cause - I don't remember. I do remember thinking - those poor people are going to go to her page thinking they've found a safe haven and she's going to rob them blind...


dee 4 years ago

supporting gay rights does not necessarily make one gay as supporting civl rights did not make one black.


anon 4 years ago

Prior to ABP the company was called Forbes Publishing. Word from one of Nunn's disgruntled writers reached Forbes and one can read about the copyright infringment filed against her. The reason for this bit of information, and it could merely be coincidence but in San Juan Capistrano CA a Cheryl L. Nunn is President of PReston Forbes Financial Services Corp. I note the Forbes and how much that name rings of money. Even the whole name reeks of money. But then my opinoin and again perhaps a coincidence.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

I knew of this about the lawsuit that Forbes won - but didn't know this about her former employer. I think what you've put together is probably a very accurate assessment of the facts as we know it.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - if you were directing that comment at me I would say a...duh. I don't even really remember the content of the article in any detail but as I said, Nunn's name was all over it and as I recall, quotes by her were made as well. It was implied in the article that she is a lesbian and had left the LDS Church because she was a lesbian and had a passion for the cause to get the LDS Church to change their stance with regard to homosexuality. I know just because someone supports homosexual rights doesn't make them gay. That was condescending and really uncalled for. If I had written a Hub and didn't make this clear - fair play. However, I made a comment, just as you have. I could turn around and say simply because Nathan - someone we have no way of verifying the veracity of - said Nunn was after his mother doesn't make Nunn homosexual.

Comments aren't comprehensive and aren't meant to be thus the term "comments" not dissertations is used after the Hub.

"com·ment

? ?[kom-ent] Show IPA

noun

1.

a remark, observation, or criticism: a comment about the weather.

2.

gossip; talk: His frequent absences gave rise to comment.

3.

a criticism or interpretation, often by implication or suggestion: The play is a comment on modern society.

4.

a note in explanation, expansion, or criticism of a passage in a book, article, or the like; annotation.

5.

explanatory or critical matter added to a text."

Perhaps you could lighten up a tad and if you THINK or worse ASSUME something, ask first rather than accuse.


anan 4 years ago

Nunn founded ABP originally using the name Forbes Publishing. She never worked for the real Forbes. It seems obvious why she selected the name Forbes, as I think this Preston Forbes Financial is too a made up name.


dee 4 years ago

I was referring to you but did not mean it as an insult. Rather,I was pointing out your conclusion she is a lesbian is based upon,as you point out, the article,s implication. I referred to your categoric "she is" as an inference but not proven fact merely from supporting a cause.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - OK - fair -let's move on. But be careful - I'm not intolerant/racist etc. and I'm sick of people who throw those insinuations and accusations around like it's confetti. It happens a lot when you're a Christian Conservative as I am. The ONLY prejudice I have - and while it's sort of funny - it's not because it's true - is against white southern women.

I realize it's irrational and extremely unfair - but there you have it. Otherwise - we are all God's children to me. I just have a problem believing white southern women are (sometimes) and I AM working on that!

But SO let's move on!


Dee 4 years ago

As a conservative I know what you mean. It is more than the word but the nuances others attack. If asked the color of a suspect comes across as racial. To say one is pro-family implies to some you are anti-women's rights. I love Morgan Freeman's comment when told he was one of Americ's best Black actors. He said he preferred to be called one of Americ's best acotrs, color played no role in acting.


dee 4 years ago

I assume some stereoypical southern white women those gemtile, deliberalty naive take care of me daddy depicted in fiction. Can't see what else there could be.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

LOL - as to Morgan Feeman's comment - Martin Luther King wanted a COLORBLIND population in America - not the other way around. There was an officer in a very high speed military school who worked with my husband. He was a great guy, but more importantly to the story, he was and is, a great, great soldier. When he was promoted "below the zone" which means promoted ahead of his peers he seethed to my husband privately, "There are going to be many people who will think I got this due to 'quotas' or due to 'equal opportunity" because I'm black. Many will never believe I got this because I worked my ass off to get it."

And as my husband added, because he was very, very qualified and deserved it.

As to the white southern women - I had this "lady" and I use the term loosely - say to me in her deep southern drawl, "I will be as sweet as pie to your face, but when you turn around, I will stick that knife right between your shoulder blades." She said that's the way Southern women were - she actually told me that.

Because I was young and naive - I thought she meant OTHER PEOPLE. She didn't mean she would do that to ME. I liked the woman, found her funny and had no reason to think I needed to watch my back. I was so wrong. She perpetrated the most insidious, EVIL plot against me that went on for a year. I never suspected. It's a miracle social services didn't come and take my children. She literally turned an entire neighborhood against me and finally, as we were packing and moving to another Army post a woman came up to me from the neighborhood and said shyly, "I owe you an apology Carol." For what I wanted to know? She then told me ______ had approached every single new neighbor as they moved in and told them I was a child-abusing, violent crazy woman and she was so sorry, but she believed her for the longest time. My jaw dropped. I NEVER knew. I knew the new neighbors were cold to me - never knew WHY. This level of evil took my breath away. I never did anything to that woman to deserve being treated like that. And when I finally confronted the southern witch, she just denied it and in her "sweet" southern drawl proclaimed. "Why, I have no idea what you're talking about Carol..." And THAT is why I struggle to stop the cringe that automatically comes to my whole being when I hear a white woman with a southern drawl speak...


dee 4 years ago

As Huan Williams said I see Islamic tpyes on a plane I get worried. HE was fired for this. But the point, One Islamic terrorist or a few and the whole becomes suspect. One white souther woman and the whole becomes the suspect. And sadly it app[lies to races. But we all some is true, the Irish are drunks. The last was for humor.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

So true Dee. I am working on it - as I have met such lovely Southern women since knowing this other who actually (at the time) traumatized me. Prejudice is stupid. Period. And since we're off topic...I'll bring it back around - fortunately, I don't have any other prejudice - as in against gays - just that one. But as I said, I'm working on it.


Monica 4 years ago

Thank you! Thank so so very much for warning me, a new writer. Thank You!!!!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Thank you Monica for believing me and leaving your comments!!


Sue 4 years ago

In defense, of this company they say they work with first time authors and if they want you to travel, speak and so on, then they must want you to be sucessful. Agents sometimes ask unknown author for money for mailings and copies. Further, regular publishers may not pay for your travel, if you are not an established author. Terry McMillian, who is now famous, had to get a grant, award money for promoting her book. She used this promotional money for travel. She said the publisher didn't help her at all. Her time and effort was put into writing libraries, TV stations and so on. I met a lady whose advancement was only $1200 and she had to use her money to fly to Calif to sign the contract. Moreover, the royalty amount usually is only 20%. I am glad there is a company willing to help first time author and isn't considered self-publishing. Maybe over the years the company has gottern better. They are still in business, so they must be doing something right.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

In defense of American Book Publishing being a scam and the difference between a con-artist taking money from authors and what you're saying:

Asking for a "deposit" that is never returned is just one problem here. I would like ONE ABP author to contact me here at Hubpages and show me the "deposit" they gave ABP and then the receipts for the RETURN of that so-called deposit. I have yet even heard of anyone getting that money back. What about the time and money the ABP authors put out to have professional photos taken for the ABP "author's page?" That never happened - not only didn't my photo appear anywhere on any ABP websites, but no author page existed the entire four years I had the misfortune to "work" with that scam operation. I know of no legitimate publishing firm that DOESN'T have an author's page - with author photos and a listing of each author's books.

Asking authors to promote their own book - you are right - does not in and of itself mean that the publishing firm is a scam. However - asking "new authors" for a "deposit" of something akin to $1000.00 then asking that same author buy over-priced copies of their own book to the tune of thousands of dollars.

What publishing industry event does ABP set up their booth/table at? Not ONE. ABP does ZERO to help the author. While some publishing firms may not spend big money to promote the author leaving the author with a bigger burden of promotion - ABP does ZERO in any form or any genre or media. They don't even have a Facebook or Twitter presence to make announcements. Even the smallest of imprints have at least a Twitter or Facebook account.

Once they get the author "deposit" and then get the author to buy thousands of dollars worth of their own books - they're done. They've made their profit. Then they move on to their next victim.

A legitimate publisher doesn't ask the author to sign over ALL rights to their work and any future works. No one does that - it's what they hold hostage over the author's head until they feel they've soaked all the money they can from you - and I know of many who STILL haven't gotten their rights back but haven't seen one book in print from ABP.

There are plenty of legitimate self-publishing businesses out there that work with "New Authors." ABP isn't one of them - they are a con game made to bilk every dime they can out of unsuspecting eager authors and then leaving them high and dry.


litjunkie profile image

litjunkie 4 years ago

Stella Jackson may be another possible name. I was contacted by this person regarding a possible editor position. I was curious that I had never heard of the company and that she said that they take both unsolicited and solicited manuscripts. She also said that ABP strives to publish every manuscript received. So as mentioned, this company is not just scamming authors...but editors as well. It is true that editors are only paid $100 at the time of printing of the manuscript plus 5% royalties 2x per year.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

litjunkie-I'm so glad you didn't fall for their nonsense. It's sad too because now - editors will be looking for jobs given the state of the publishing industry. Lower level editors will be let go and apparently are being let go in droves. It could be tempting for them to want to accept an appeal by ABP. I hope not.

Thank you for your comments.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

litjunkie-I'm so glad you didn't fall for their nonsense. It's sad too because now - editors will be looking for jobs given the state of the publishing industry. Lower level editors will be let go and apparently are being let go in droves. It could be tempting for them to want to accept an appeal by ABP. I hope not.

Thank you for your comments.


anon 4 years ago

to sue who wrote ten days ago. Where to start. Some agents do bill for copies. And All agents get paid if they sell a manuscript to a publisher. Commercial publishers will only aswk a writer to hit the road if there is potential for sales. They know writers can not afford the costs. Thise that do more often than not cover the costs. The Terry McMillan serves as no example. She wasn't asked to promote as ABPG does, she wasn't using her own money and finally her publisher made money from the books that were sold to the public as did Terry. ABPG by sales of books to readers has never made enough to remain in business. The vast majority of money is from writers paying deposits and buying their won books for exorbidate prices. C. Lee Nunn remains in business soley from ignorant writers who need to learn the money flows to the writer never from and most writed get wise long before they buy 500 copies and won't waste thjeir time suing Nunn to get back their deposits. That and by hiding behioind phoney names _there's reason enought to avoid ABPG- it is difficult to find her.


dee 4 years ago

to add to the above. Sue's misconcpetion is that AMerican Book Publishing is a commercial publisher, and from that provides some defense of ABP that lead to "I am glad there is a company willing to help first time author and isn't considered self-publishing." When an writer pays to get their manuscript in book form it is either throught a vanity press or is self-published. If a real commercial publisher were not selling books to the public they could not remain in business. Thus ABP is not a commercial publisher.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 4 years ago from Michigan Author

Thanks Dee and Anon - in no way - is ABP a commercial or legitimate publisher. It is a con-game - designed to take author's money.


anon 3 years ago

I pop in from time to time for any new updates. Quiet activity might very well be revealing that writers who submit and are accpeted -I should say all are- have done their due diligence and have been informed as to what they can expect.


dee 3 years ago

I note that Cheryl L. Nunn is the President of Preston Forbes Financial in California. Preston Forbes, as once ABPG was called Forbes Publishing and was sued by the real Forbes for infringement she again has decided, it seems, that coming up with some prestigeous sounding name will attract customers. And as a financial planner she was suspended, can we hope she is not out to do the same, dupe customers? In my mind using such a name is decietful so connect the dots.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Holy cow - does this woman EVER STOP?! I know all about the lawsuit the real Forbes filed - and won. Has anyone informed them that this nut is at it again? She probably changed the name enough that it isn't worth them suing her...too bad. More people to bilk out of their money - just in a different way. BTW Dee - I'm going to be moving everything I write over to www.carolspieceofmind.com. I will keep this up on Hubpages probably indefinitely and just put up another entire page about ABP and Nunn in addition. Can't have too many places on the web to warn about this con artist. I am completely befuddled as to why this woman isn't in jail-- I do NOT get it.


anon 3 years ago

I think the Preston Forbes is defunct, it was however the name of the firm she was president of -likely founder, sole operator- when she was suspended. The CA coprporate search indicates it is inactive, but that doesn't necessarily mean not operating, though I doubt it is. What is interesting is the name she selected: Forbes. How official, how unrelated to her, how...well, given she was suspened, given she likely sold a bill of goods starting with the name, only in my mind indicates how decietful this wman is.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Exactly. But I don't think we needed this new con-game-now-defunct to know that this woman is a crook who simply hasn't been caught yet.


anon 3 years ago

Cry wolf...we know the story, the child, when a real wolf appears is not believed. C. Lee Nunn recntly, but this too seems to have dwindled, was an active memeber/officer in some gay rights Mormon group. If I recall, the cite asked for donations. As legit as the group mayu be -irrespective of their position- it becomes difficult, given Nunn's past, to believe the donations would be more for the cause versus a means of income disproportionate to effort. Like writers wanting top be published, investors wanting to make money but equally looking for retirement, in my mind just another group Nunn could fleece. I would then not be surprised to find her associating to some other cause, starting some other group, asking again for some form of donation or deposit.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

I distinctly remember that group you're talking about anon as it was the first time I actually saw what she looked like when someone led me to her gay Mormon cause. I'm sure she fleeced everyone and then simply moved on. I'm absolutely flummoxed as to why someone, somewhere doesn't catch her and put her in jail where she belongs. I remember when when as one of her alias - she threatened to sue me if I didn't take this Hub down. I told her, nope and she could stop with the "Nathan" ruse as I knew it was her. She wrote back - I must be mistaken, that's the former owner - yadda, yadda, yadda. I wrote back, nothing doing - I recognized the terrible spelling and grammatical mistakes - I still had all her emails. And as far as the lawsuit - BRING IT. Then I could take her to court and reveal she's just a con. I ended it with, "I do take comfort in the fact that while you took me for some money, we are blessed that it wasn't a hardship. And at least I could sleep at night with a clear conscience. Have never heard from her again. I take great comfort in knowing she MUST have problems with sleep, wondering when the other shoe will finally drop - living from one con to the other. That is of great comfort to me.


anon 3 years ago

According to one site of warning, C Lee Nunn may be using alias; Nathan Fitzgearl, Kathleen Montgomery, and/or Abigail Woodward Wright. In addition she has gone by, C.Lee Nunn, Lee Nunn, Cheryl Nunn, L. Nunn and Nunn spelled as Nun and I assume a married name of Zylstra. Any who know of ABPG can list the number address changes in Salt Lake City over the past fews years. This in addition to her personal lsiting of resdiences, at least five or six in CA. Perhaps all that moving makes it difficult to "catch" her, perhaps the amounts she takes are not worth the effort of pursuit. Given her suspension and Forbes suit it might hold true, larger amounts or greater detriment bring actions. For certain, given the low sales volumes of ABPG books she can not make a living from sales to readers. Only leaves sales to writers and that has been covered in depth.


dee 3 years ago

C Lee Nunn's problems with sleep, if they do exist are more likely relating to getting caught rather than an concern for ethics. I might add, worrying about getting money and surviving as more learn to beware and avoid.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Oh that's exactly what I meant too. If she has lack of sleep which I know she must from time to time - she must wonder when the other shoe will drop and it WILL drop some day if there is any justice in this world. She'll slip up, make one huge mistake that's going to land her butt in jail. Someday.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

I still don't get it though. If this were me - I would have been in jail years ago no matter how many times I would have moved. Sure it would take awhile to get caught, but we're military - we've moved 21 times in 25 years - they ALWAYS found me (not that I have ever done anything illegal, but even our mail that wasn't forwarded would find its way to us). Granted, I didn't use aliases - but she had to use at least ONE social security number if not more - and more is I think - a felony isn't it? She's obviously broken laws - it's got to be something else that keeps her out of jail - at least thus far. And what about taxes? Does she fill out a form and pay them every year? I think NOT. You'd think the IRS alone would have been on her heels. If that were me - and I had skipped paying my taxes - I'd SO be in jail. I don't get it - and maybe this side of heaven I never will but SOMEDAY she will find out - when she is "cast into the outer darkness." As a Mormon WOMAN she MUST be married IN THE TEMPLE to a Mormon MAN - who will have a secret "code" he'll utter through the "veil" upon her death. If she isn't married when she dies - and even if she was and the husband decides NOT to call her through the veil with that secret code, she goes to Mormon hell. Either way, as a Jack Mormon - she's going to hell. And she believes LDS doctrine, make no mistake. That ALONE should be keeping her up nights. I love it. I sleep like a baby.


dee 3 years ago

you assume as a green consultant to the publishing industry, read consultant as how she obtains her money from ABPG she migh very well be not reporting income, she might be filtering it through someone else, she migh in fact be in pursuit by the IRS. if she is running some group as a "chairty" who knows how she might hide the money. She may be paying herslf as a consultant and failing to provide 1099s thus it is written-off at the one end but no records means no need to declare at the other. It does mean the possibilty of an audit but many risk that. Or, she might be making so little she pays no federal taxes. Or, she runs all money entering legitmatley but that doesn't mean it is earned legitemately. Remember the IRS can't go after everyone from a stand point of resources. "Mormon hell." That baits some explanation/description.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Oh - I assume nothing - I honestly don't. I'm completely baffled as to how she has skirted the law for so long. Your conjecture could be possible in any combination.

Mormon hell - that is so complicated to explain - I've studied their religion - read their BOM and all holy books of the LDS Church for almost two decades. But in simple form - there is no hell for MOST LDS - only different tiers when a Mormon dies. The "top" is the best one - if you marry a Mormon of the opposite sex in The Temple Ceremony and for a woman - if your husband calls your name through the veil - you're in like Flynn at the top ruling over your own planet earth making god-babies. Yes. The best LDS heaven means you and your god husband will make spirit babies to populate your very own planet earth - why LDS have to have so many babies - to have a body to put the Mr. And Mrs. God's spirit babies into.

If you're a Mormon and REJECT Mormonism you're in big trouble. That's when you're cast into the outer darkness/void. That's their only hell so to speak. You're toast. So I guess she keeps herself "safe" to a degree because she still buys the doctrine - however, she won't have a husband to call her through the veil PLUS she's a "Jack Mormon" plus I'm SURE she doesn't tithe 10% of all her earnings - and if you don't do that, you can't get to Mormon heaven on any top level. So she just may be in a gray area, but for a Mormon it's a bad area. So the very least she's going to be on one of the lower rungs of "Mormon heaven" - that's the best she'll do. She may be teetering on the edge of outer darkness - which is a really bad Mormon hell and not even on one of the heaven tiers - she'll be eternally in darkness. My bet - she's on a one way track to outer darkness.

She has MUCH to keep her awake at night and I receive great comfort from that as I sleep soundly with a clear conscience.


anon 3 years ago

So if a woman, due to her husband's lack of faith, might land in some lower tier but be less her husband. Can she then date or is she alone? Of course I jest but the description seems to be explicit, each Mormon is assigned a personal eternal location. How dreadfully boring. One could say then, if heaven is as secluded then God's plan is for seclusion beyond family. If one strives for heaven on earth than one must not necessarily renounce neighbors but certainly should spend less time with and more with the spouse. Would create then a world os many small fiefdoms competing rather than cooperating. So why then tithe to support a unit that in effect says the goal removal from others? Why not just get a wife and live in the country alone?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

I always used to joke that if a Mormon wife had an argument with her husband and then he drops dead in the middle of it - she's screwed...

Unless of course she married another Mormon man, paid their 10% tithes & married in the temple. BUT if you don't pay 10% of all your earnings to the LDS Church you can't marry in the temple and if you don't marry in the Mormon Temple you can't go to Mormon heaven. But IF she did all that again and DIDN'T argue with her husband - she just may have a chance to get to Mormon heaven.

Which is NOT going to happen to Nunn because she's a lesbian.

I take ENORMOUS comfort in that knowledge...


Dee 3 years ago

So then you hold with some aspects of Mormonism if as a lesbian someone is excluded? Or is it a matter of deeds, than predetermination is not the issue. Perhaps your thinking is that if Nunn is a Moramon but desires the church to change its thinking on gays, she does so somehow hoping for acceptance into heaven? That could make sense if she truly believed, if so then the church does not look terribly bad on the means by which she gets money. That might if one considers Utah has one of,k if not the highest, rates of pyramid type marketing business in their state. It might then say how one makes a living is og lesser import as long as one give a tenth and of course then a tenth of a greater number is better. It too might justify less than honorable behavior as long a s those practicing think by giving they are redeemed. if not forgiven. It does sound like buying indulgences. Or, have I interpreted this in error.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

I'm not sure I quite follow you. I will tell you this - it is factual that Mormons are literally taught to lie if it will "further the cause" and that of course is to bring people into the Mormon fold. This is a well-kept secret but it is fact as I know a number of former LDS.

Now - I don't think the LDS Church really addresses the issue of Lesbianism re: heaven. It's just not allowed in the LDS Church. It's so funny - it's like the polygamist sects of Mormonism (which adhere BTW to the early teachings of Joseph Smith - a polygamist and Brigham Young - also a polygamist). The Mormon Church ignore them - therefore (to the LDS Church) they simply don't exist. I think that's essentially the prevailing attitude the church has with the gay community. It's not necessarily because she's gay that Nunn won't get into heaven. It's because she won't follow the Mormon "rules" to do it. Like marrying a Mormon man, pay her 10% tithes, have that marriage in the Mormon Temple - go through the Mormon Temple Ceremony and die a married (to a man) woman. You can't - according to Mormondom - get into heaven unless you do ALL of those things. Not to mention the husband HAS to say that "secret" code word for her to get through the veil into heaven.

Add to your observations that for years (haven't checked the stats lately) Utah - where 7 out of 10 are LDS - they broke the U.S. record for the most anti-depressant meds, the most female and teenage suicide, the most sexual crimes against children - the sickening list goes on and on.

I hope I answered your question.


dee 3 years ago

It would seem if gay/lesbianism is not addressed but what is acceptable for heaven then the former would be excluded, especially since lesbians do not ave husbands, thus no secret word. Nunn could than gain acceptance were she to marry or be married. As for suicides, et. al. the causes are not restricted but indicative to any society where one is curtailed from personal self-worth as self defined, where rules less questioned and freely accepted are employed, and where one's position is dicated rather than earned. Especially true where sex, race, and religion are involved. And in religion, to be taught it is our way or hell is hard to overcome.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Good observations Dee.


TheMadMack 3 years ago

Thank you for rescuing me! These unscrupulous publishers are getting more clever about the way they describe their "businesses" so that amateur writers like me won't realize the publishers are really scam artists. I was just about to consider this company and I'm truly grateful I found your article!


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

It just warms my heart and puts a smile on my face every single time I get one of these messages. Each time, I am reminded, it was all worth what I went through - if I could save even ONE person from the nightmare I had to endure. To date, it's been a LOT more than one person and I'm grateful to God for it! Thanks for your comments MadMack!


lstangelgirl 3 years ago

I was just offered a "contract" with American Book Publishing this morning. After reading that part of the contract where they want $880 up front I was immediately skeptical. Not to mention the fact that I would be held responsible for anyone trying to sue, I would lose the movies right etc... So I started looking up everything I could find about the company. I am truly sorry for your ordeal. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post. This just reinforced all my initial hesitation and worry that they were in fact a scam. I believe wholeheartdly in my book and even though I am a first time Author I know it will get published (with a reputable publisher). I pray your book get's published and you are able to recoop all your money and make a lot more. I also happen to agree with your stance on Mormonism. Coming from a family that has many Mormons. I have seen first hand far too much that's proves how "cultish" they are. I got an invitation to my nephews "Wedding" except you can't see a Mormon wedding at the Temple since it is closed to only the bride and groom not even the parents. So the invitation was for the reception. How sad and how bizarre they are. My own brother (my nephews father) was married in the Temple and I remember being a small child trying to understand "why" we couldn't see him get married. But this is of course the tip of the iceberg as I am sure you know. Again my prayers are with you may you be blessed as you have spared others from such a scam.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Stanglegirl - thank you so much for writing. Every single letter I receive like this -here or privately I am SO thankful that I did go through what I did so I am able to help others avoid that terrible ordeal. We are so blessed - doing so well - the loss of the money is just that - it's just a loss of money. God has given us back ten fold. It's letters like this that make my day, my month, my YEAR. So very blessed to hear you avoided ABP - Nunn is a crook and I pray someday this side of heaven I will see her face justice. But no matter - as long as I can be used to help others, that's what counts! Thank you so much for taking the time to write!


anon 3 years ago

I was interested to learn Nunn's contract included a clause that the witer is responsible is someone sues. A work plagairized instantly comes to mind. Note: Publish America "Publishing" a book containg numerous plagaized poems a few years back. It shows the manuscripts are not reviewed for one poem was very recognizable. So, does this mean Nunn doesn't review? We all are very certain that is true. But that can be excused, and it wasn't the publisher who plagarized. What else? Perhaps books sold and money recieved but never shipped? Read complaints about Nunn's ABPG. THis problem has existed. What about nonfiction, books claiming self-help from writers who have no experience, or have proven their methods. These writers seldom get published, other than self-published, for there may be liabilities that could jeopardize the publisher. I'm certain other reasons exist, but it shows a publisher who doesn't review but one who accepts just about everything -why not if it's never reviewed and the purpose of the contract is to get writer's money not selling books to the publicas a means to generate revenues. What it shows, is not a publisher but a printer, a vanity press in disguise hiding intent behind "deposits" marketing plans that require writers to pay thoushands of dollars and sell fewer than a handful of books.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

anon - I have also been receiving emails that she has begun to scam overseas. To the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. We're going to become the newest Nigerian email scammers. Turns out she scammed the wrongly connected overseas person. That's all I can say for now.


anon 3 years ago

Such a baiting comment: "That's all I can say for now." Does this mean you know more but are unable to say, or wait for more information?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Sorry - I didn't mean to do that anon - I just don't have any more information at all. The person would not be specific so I couldn't get any clarity as to what might happen next. I don't believe the implication was any physical harm would come to her though - that much seemed clear.


anon 3 years ago

Never suspected anything physical would occur.


dee 3 years ago

if one goes back years -the nineties- one can find writers who sighned with Nunn reporting "threatening" messages left by here on both the email and answering machines for those who didn't do as she said. These included following her marketing scheme and, as the $10,000 fine for speaking out will atttest. Running a scam assumes those taken will just go their own way and not protest or warn others. Of course, to maintain the scam means trying to siloence any who warn merely by presenting what happened to them. Speak up, and one will get a letter from her "legal" department, cease or face libel charges. Of course the letter will ask for the names of all other ABPG writers one may have contacted. If ABPG is such a great deal, then beofre you sign, inform NUnn you will ask other ABPG writers about their experiences. You will be notified they are too busy, she doesn't reveal that information, anything to prevent learning the truth. Of course she has her infamous quotes page. Read those, NONE reveal anything about sales success, only about editing and covers. Writers may offer gratitude to their editors, agents, but never shill for the publisher. Real publishers don't need some unknown touting their houese. They rely on picking salable books to build a reputation. And no real publisher would ask their writers to supply quotes touting book covers.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

Nunn even has something from me - exactly as you said - DURING the editing process - and I was happy with my editor. SHE was scammed too and never paid a dime for her three years of work! Everything you said is true - except my lawyer made her resign another contract that DIDN'T prevent me from speaking out. She was too stupid to read what exactly he wrote in the new contract and she signed it - thinking I was signing a "gag order" which is what she demanded or she wouldn't give me back my book rights. He worded it in such a way that I am protected by my free speech rights - so I can continue to speak out. She's threatened me on a number of occasions with legal action but I won't stop. Not until she's in jail.


dee 3 years ago

exactly, she threatens, and does nothing for to do so means she has to go to court and prove her case. What can she prove, that her web site explicitly says returnable deposit that she can not prove has ever been returned to a single writer? That writers sign beleiving ABPG is a real publisher relying on books sales as her site claims? She could sue, and then open herself up to witnesses comimg forth against her? She could be forced to open her books, show revenue and by source. A sorry tale of checks written to ehr by writers and not readers. She could sue and claim not liable but loss of income, but then with the evidence of revenue sources compared to her web claims the record would show what she is. So she threatens, has done so for over ten years. Who would work for one who exists on threats to gain money. What writer would sign knowing their rights are held hostage to gag orders. ONly the deparate or foolish, and the latter are fewer as ore sites exist to warn.


Teresa Nielsen Hayden 3 years ago

Cheryl Nunn wants money without work, and she wants to be seen as a respectable entrepreneur instead of the crooked grifter she is. I'll count it as a victory the day she has to take a regular 40-hour job to make ends meet.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 3 years ago from Michigan Author

I'll count it a victory when she's behind bars. Thanks for your thoughts Teresa - you speak the truth.


dee 3 years ago

her past seems to indicate she has always taken the easy route by scamming. Think about it, you give her money (deposit) and unwittingly your rights and if you don't do as she wants (buy hundreds of copies from her) she expects you then to pay again to get your rights returned. A real employer would see through her very quickly, but then I suspect her to be the type, if fired, to file some lawsuit, age, sex, whatever discrimination. The likes of her always look for the quick buck if not feeling they are victims due the money. The likes of her always threaten lawsuits. Read when Forbes hiy her with trade mark infringements, she triued to negociate a deal. They, of course, refused. So many scammers actually think by creating the scam they are clever and getting caught insults their image of intelligence. Thus, you offend their percieved intelligence and there is the harm they feel.


Joel Savage 2 years ago

Writers Beware of Dorrance and Rosedog Publisher.

Read my story.

Thanks to the media and the effectiveness of the internet, as a medium to convey messages and warnings to people. As an amateur writer, with an ambition to publish my work, I made a grave mistake, which cost me over $3000, without the books. After finding the right publisher, through experienced writers and those associated to publishing, I am now happy and would like to publish my story, so that no one would ever make the mistake I did.

I saw a publisher called 'Dorrance' solliciting for manuscripts on the internet. Without much knowledge about their background as 'vanity or subsidy publisher' or 'Ghoul publisher' that is they don't feed on the dead, but the living, I gave them two manuscripts. There is no package at the website. They will tell you to make an initial payment of $500. After that comes the original package of $8.100, to be paid within a period of twenty three months.

I wasn't happy about this. I therefore contacted a well known female expert in book publishing and she asked me to cancel the contract. She has a reason. According to her, what is stated in Dorrance contract is never done. They only used it as a bait to lure or encourage the submission of manuscripts.Moreover they don't even have shops to sell their books as vanity publishers.

I believed her. An associate of Dorrance called Mr. Andrew Rouce, whom I made the payment to, asked me to make appointment on line to speak to me. I followed his instructions and made the appointment, but no one called me. This is evidence number one of what kind of publisher Dorrance is, which the book expert was talking about.

My two manuscripts are already with Dorrance. After the cancellation of the contract of $8.100, Mr. Rouce introduced another publisher called 'RoseDog', to me. Both my two manuscripts were transferred to RoseDog publisher's. After making a full payment of $2.155, plus $40 additional cost for the postage of three copy of books, the six months period the book supposed to come out, as said by Mr. Rouce had expired, yet I have paid $1.133 for the second manuscript.

They asked me to finish up the payment of the second manuscript and I said to them that it's not going to be possible, since the first book which I have finished the payment hasn't come out, therefore there is no way I will continue payment for the second script . They were infuriated by my decision and they thought the best punishment for me was to take the book that I have finished its payment hostage.

They refused every communication with me. I was compelled to find another publisher and make another payment to on print on demand (POD) contract. Dorrance received my cancellation of the contract letter and referred part of their contract to me as a breach and forfeited all the amount I have invested in my books.

I am not worried at all for losing this amount, because I wouldn't have got anything as a royalty from such publisher. They are simply criminals within the publishing industry. Just imagine a publisher, requesting me to provide names of two hundred friends to buy my books.

They wanted to make money again at my expense. The most important message, I want to convey to the public is "Dorrance and RoseDog publishers' are birds of the same feathers, flocking together, "PLEASE NEVER BE TEMPTED TO GO INTO THEIR NET".

You can read hundreds of negative comments about 'Dorrance' on the internet. If you, I and others will join hands together and campaign against such publishers, the publishing industry would be somehow better from frauds like that of Dorrance and RoseDog. Don't say that you don't care, because it didn't happen to you. It may happen to your brother, sister, neighbour or friend.

Just keep away from them. The comments of previous writers they had published their books and posted at their websites are all false. They use them to counter attack the war against them as bad publishers. I don't have anything to lose, therefore the campaign against Dorrance and RoseDog, as criminals within the publishing industry will continue unabated.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

I'm sorry to hear about your story. There are far too many of them out there I'm afraid. Thank you for sharing it with us.


anon 2 years ago

very recent "investigations" into C Lee Nunn and her ABPG reveal numerous alias', numerous other publishing houses and the continue3d "scam." As another poster commented, Nunn is a grifter, it means con artist.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

I was shown that article about Nunn's alias names - and numerous fake publishing houses. It's stunning how she isn't doing the perp walk. But hopefully, someday soon...


Former ABP Editor 2 years ago

I had recently graduated from a publishing program and found ABP on bookjobs. I looked them up and they seemed legit (this was in 2007 or 2008), so I applied and sent my resume - was hired almost immediately as an editor. I thought the $100 base pay and 5% royalties was kind of strange, but it wasn't going to be my main job, so I didn't really worry. I chose my first book to work on. It was a nightmare - the author wasn't even finished writing it. This was a two year project. I stayed on to work on three more books. Again, this wasn't my main job, so I didn't mind. They were very particular about how you edited books, but I did my own thing because that's how I have always worked. I think that over 4 years or so, I received maybe $60 in royalties. I did work with some really interesting authors and did what I could. Very rarely did I receive support from the Director. Some of my books were published with errors, which technically should have been caught along the line. Isn't this why more than one person works on a book? Anyway, I received a message not too long ago stating that ABP was closing down. I feel like a schmo for not having researched them as much as I could have in the early days. I am thankful, though, for the experiences working with them brought me. I hope that the authors with whom I worked don't consider me to be a part of this scam, as I was really just an editor trying to help them get their books published, never knowing until recently that they were getting the screw job.

Thanks for allowing me to share my piece.


anon 2 years ago

like many con artists if they remain small law enforcement doesn't take the necessary time to shut them down. In my area there is a transmission shop that constantly does shoddy work, runs false ads has a list of over 80 pages of complaints with the attorney general but changes their name thus removing the connect to the web sites of warnings and continues. The attorney generals office said they just didn't have the resources to pursue. Nunn changes her names, changes her address and opens and closes web sites. BUT, if one looks at how few people are buying into her scam indicates how much sites warning of her are working.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Anon: How do you know few people are buying into her scams? She apparently lives in a very affluent section of California - and I just personally received two emails from people who just realized they were scammed. One has hired a lawyer.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Dear Former Editor - how could you possibly research a "new" publishing firm or someone who isn't even using their real name? It's virtually impossible no matter how careful you are. And I understand Nunn is even giving "advances" to her authors now - so what would give a red flag really? You no schomo - professionals from every walk of life have been scammed by her. You're in very good company. I have never been scammed in my life - until her. I have a college degree and a masters in LIFE as a 33 year Army Officer's wife. Not before, not since have I ever been involved in any scams. I've had a judge and an PhD write to me - both women, both taken very badly by her. You truly are in very good company.


Former ABP Editor 2 years ago

Thanks! I feel worse for all of the authors who poured their hearts and souls into their books and really got nothing in return. I know of an author who didn't have enough money to buy all of the galley copies they wanted her to buy. Because of this, ABP did not publish her book. She, in turn, decided that she no longer had the will or desire to write. That, to me, is one of the worst things that could happen. This company and its shady dealings killed her dream. When I found out about this, I sent an e-mail to the higher ups at ABP and the only response was "we'll see what we can do." Really? Heartless. Seriously heartless.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

You have no idea how heartless - I have gotten emails and even in some cases phone calls with people who have absolutely heart breaking stories. Some of the stories still haunt me to this day. If she doesn't see justice in this life - I KNOW there is a very special place in hell for her...


anon 2 years ago

To see how few titles she is publishing merely count the titles on PDbookstore for starts. Indeed many who sign learn what is required to get their book "released" as in buying copies for publicity but given few new titles are added means most aren't buying books. Second. read the quotes in her "happy writers" section. The vast majority go back years, many are from writers who have left. Third, check amazon sales ranking for any new books listed, if you can find them. And lastly, many writers would not stumble on ABPG and not see all the warning sites that are next to it. Fourth, a good many writers, before signing would look up the company and as this site attests learn the truth. As for where she lives: make certain it is not a less desirable section of town if in fact her address is current. In my town there are homes valued at several million and some at 2ooK.


anon 2 years ago

Recently the SFWA added some additional information regarding C. Lee Nunn: the suspected operating under both a variety of pseudonyms and company names. Shortly after it was noted the new operations were ALL up for sale. Now ABPG site says it is up for sale. A quick check does not go to a location for details. Pity, for if it did Nunn would have to open her books for any buyers and the whole scam would be revealed. as it is, sites of warnings have done their job. As previously posted here, ABPG has had a decline in signed writers and now it appears Nunn either knows there is little hope scamming more, or she is feeling the heat of what I would say is fraud charges. Remember, PA has been recently sued for such practices.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

I do hope you're right because I've been receiving a number of emails of late from scammed ABP and the scam affiliates authors. She's trying to get them to "buy out" their rights to their own books, even though her contracts gives the authors full rights to their own materials.


anon 2 years ago

merely google american book publishing group


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Anon - the only thing the search results prove is that the whole business is for sale. What I had hoped is true and still hope is true is that it is because of the heat by SFWA etc. that Nunn is forced to close up shop. What gives you the impression that this is the reason she is selling? That was what was meant by my comment.


dee 2 years ago

complaints from writers stating Nunn wants them to buy out their rights. It would seem she is seeking cash and no longer pursuing her buy in bulk, hold the writer's rights "hostage" scam. It would seem then it is likely she is closing shop -not to mean she won't try to re-open under another name, one less open to the scrutiny she has garnered all these years. Indeed, I did google American Book Publishing Group ans well as her Publishers Direct Bookstore. Both are not available. I dearly love the aforementioned description of Nunn: a grifter. Reading what is available of her past it seems she has a "career" of scamming and getting caught and moving around and changing names and company names, and phoney alias' and addresses and phone numbers and all those indicators of a grifter.


anon 2 years ago

When ABPG started there was little information, read that as warnings. No need to mention all the sites that popped up describing the scam but needless to say any writer finding the link to ABPG would also find all the links with warnings. And too, merely see how few titles have been released in the past few years. Were writers successful in reaching readers via ABPG/Nunn's "marketing" methods and the goal is to reach readers one would find more signing, not less. If the Publishers Direct Bookstore -note virtually all titles listed were ABPG titles- was a viable source for sales, one would find few ABPG writers complaining and more non ABPG titles willing listed by other publishers. In all no ABPG writer ever sold enough books to get their deposit returned no matter what outlets were used. And fewer writers signing, and more scrutiny of Nunn means first change your name then try to sell, then close. Selling is a last ditch effort to get a few more dollars since signed writers declined.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

I wonder if some authority or legal entity hasn't finally caught up to her?


dee 2 years ago

I doubt the "law" has got her, she is small potatoes and deliberately has a "small" deposit. Most who did get cheated never sued her for their deposit and I suspect most who signed and discovered they had to buy bulk of their own nooks, just left, be it they got smart or didn't have the money. But I wouldn't be surprised if the IRS is or will be looking at her especially given her other venture -a foundation for gay rights- had just her as an employee and supposedly provides grants. I t would not surprise me -perhaps I will check this- if I found her "foundation" wasn't registered, never applied and never has provided a legitimate grant.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

I have always wondered why the IRS hasn't nailed her. There is no way she's filing taxes.


dee 2 years ago

I disagree, she is likely filing taxes -alone the fear of not and those penalties- but having a company she has all sorts of ways to write-off, take losses, etc that might make it to her benefit to file. However, if she is using other's names, her family for example, things can become dicey. Her re3sume reads consultant to publishing especially green. The only connect there is to ABPG where she has claimed for years she is not the owner/founder -read her original description way back machine archives. She may have moved money from ABPG to herself as a consultant not employee. there's all sorts of legal means. remember it is not illegal to avoid taxes but is to evade.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

You make a point -- but it is illegal to "own" a business and not pay taxes from the earnings for that company. How would she file to get the exemptions you mention? You have to be a real person with a real social security number to file in any way. For example - under one of her phoney names Elizabeth Bennet - she takes in say $40,000.00 from an overseas author (someone wrote to me and said Nunn - using one of her aliases of course = told her she had to buy 40k of her own books. The author wrote me and ended up not giving Nunn the money - but let's say she did give her the money but I'm guessing others did). So Nunn and one of her companies receives 40k say times 10 - as I know she is scamming now overseas. Someone has to pay taxes on that. If not - the IRS will go after her, but how can she pay taxes on it since her company is made-up - and she doesn't have a real SS number or real name to file under? No - I think she doesn't file, and then just keeps moving. There's no way she could without the IRS getting suspicious and digging - she's not that smart to be able to juggle all that she's juggling and know the complicated tax laws so she could get "write-offs" and how to do it with fake names, fake business names and the like.


dee 2 years ago

using your example, if she was paid the 40k and claimed expenses of office, phone, insurance and then paid herself as a consultant the difference and then claimed losses from all the other writers who didn't buy claiming time spent to promote -she would have to prove that- and on a normal tax form all fits ABPG makes no money thus no taxes.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Yes Dee however, she'd have to use a real name and real social security number in order to do what you just stated. She can't do that for ANY of her publishing companies because she doesn't use her real name. She can't file - unless she files with the exact false name using a false social security number (a whole other federal group of illegal activities in addition to breaking IRS laws) that she "filed" the business under. She can't claim anything no less make write-offs. Right now "Cheryl Nunn" doesn't own squat and hasn't for about a decade. She can't write off things she doesn't own a business for. Therefore, I'm saying she can't possibly be filing taxes. She's breaking the law and has been - big time - for probably a decade. Ever since she used her first alias - Nathan Fitzgeral about a decade ago. Therefore, she has been continuously breaking the law all these years because she's almost certainly not filing and hasn't filed taxes for probably a decade.


dee 2 years ago

your point was a company paying taxes and if said company had losses exceeding income they have no tax liability. Nunn and ABPG would have to file indeed but her income could be as a consultant, not an employee avoiding the withholding and FICA and unemployment insurance and she too could have a myriad of personal deductions, mortgage interest, medical et al that might place her personal income in a no tax bracket. Your point was about her company and it does not file using Soc Numbers but Federal ID numbers. My business files returns as such and I file separate individual forms. Now, there are S corps that operate as individuals with corp status. The point, I doubt she doesn't file -the risk too large- but my bet is she writes-off tons both business and personal. The issue, if legit write-offs she has broken no laws. If not-legit, it is another matter.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Good points - but don't you have to give accurate personal information to even file FOR an LLC or any other type of business? When I formed my LLC I had to swear on the statement that I was giving accurate information blah, blah. Someone has to be the officer for the company - she'd have to be very smart to know the ins and outs to be able to file for deductions for a fictitious company. I think - I hope - you're giving her too much credit. She's not that smart, just look at the way she writes. She's practically illiterate. I think the risk is high as you said, she just moves when the heat is on. I know she's moved within Utah at least twice and now she's in California. Unless she's raking in millions, the feds aren't going to go after her and lately, the IRS has enough to deal with so she's probably under the radar. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, or argumentative - I'm actually not DISagreeing with you - I'm thinking she isn't filing and the IRS hasn't caught up with her. There are a boat load of people who don't pay taxes - the IRS can only catch up with a fraction of them. Unless you have some inside information. The only thing I know for sure with regard to this discussion is - she moved twice (at least) within Utah, and her personal address now is in California - or at least it was as of December 2013.


anon 2 years ago

Moving to avoid "the heat" of creditors, disgruntled writers, law suits etc. does not equate to moving to avoid federal taxes: the entity and Fed ID number remain. State taxes are another matter. I agree, Nunn likely files but I am certain finds all the loop holes to avoid, and avoiding is not criminal, evading is. But my gut tells me she likely fudges the information on both the business and personal forms for so much of her past is filled with lies: how the business was started, the refundable deposit, the implied success of her secret marketing practices, her newsletter, her publicity assistance, her staff listing, her names..... To me that type easily fabricates tax deductions. What I would be interested to learn is the status, funding and dispersal of monies from her foundation. I doubt it is legit, likely claims high expenses and minimal grants.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Again, you make good points. I'd love the IRS to come down on her though - Cheryl Nunn - or C. Lee Nunn uses alias and most likely doesn't pay taxes for her earnings no matter where she lives. I hope some bot picks this up and someone in the IRS sees this and in the least nails her for the state taxes she owes. You're right though, she has managed to spin an intricate web - that's probably what has helped her get away with what she does fudge to keep the feds off her back. We can only hope someone someday will want to go after her and put her in jail where she SO belongs.


ABP Former Editor 2 years ago

I know that when I worked for ABP, I received tax forms, showing my income was reported, so I HOPE that since we had to pay taxes on our ridiculously low income that SHE would have to pay taxes on everything she "earned." Since the company shut down at the end of last year, it'll be interesting to see what I get in terms of tax forms.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Dear Former - Yeah, YOU have to pay taxes, but I wonder if she did. I'm sure she's not telling.


dee 2 years ago

to former editor. I doubt what you made hit you for more than few dollars in taxes and if you made additional elsewhere likely got a refund, possible is you had income credits perhpas a refund greater than what you actually had withheld. But to the point of the recent conversation, your input does indicate Nunn made no attempt to hide from the IRS -a risk too large- but I have no doubts if she were audited she'd owe. Why? because her history is one of scamming and these types seldom don't do so when filing taxes, many doing so knowing they have the odds against an audit in their favor. But then many people working legitimate jobs do the same and not necessarily by error. Were it not true then every audit by the IRS should turn up no back taxes owed. as such were Nunn to be audited the IRS likely would make her pay penalties and interest on top of what is owed but would not pursue criminal evasion, all they want is the money.


anon 2 years ago

So, American Book is "for sale" and the site to check it out is really nothing, has no details etc.. If it is any solace, shortly after it's inception all sorts of sites popped up warning writers to stay clear. Con artist put in the effort when it pays and slow or stop when it no longer pays and/or the heat is on. Looking at the title signed on the past few years and the titles listed on the defunct Publishers Direct Bookstore indicate either Nunn got real lazy - I have doubts- or the signings were declining. Re3ading posts here we se many of those who had experiences years ago a few more recently and some complaints coming to the site manager that reveal a desire to get out of their contracts or being asked to buy back rights. this seems to indicate fewer signing since warning sites were created, more checking into Nunn's scam before signing and those seeking to leave as well as Nunn trying to squeeze a few more dollars. additionally, we know the heat was on since Nunn, who initially made her name predominant, not only removed her name but worked n=under alias' she knowing both her name and company name were listed under warnings. In all the scam was declining fast over the past few years until now she closes. Not to mean she won't try something new. But then it is all too easy to track down her involvement -I refer to the SFWA list other Nunn alias' and company names, to the latter all for sale.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

She'll try something else I'm sure of it. For awhile she had this "non-profit" organization she posted on Facebook under her real name - which surprised me. I tried to get out the word that this Cheryl Nunn was the same associated with ABP and gave links etc. to back up my claims. I'll bet though she misused any funds she may have collected. I do hope though what you say is true. Her name is "Mud" so she has to use alias which means it's a bit more difficult to perpetuate a scam - unless she has people working for her. Hard to do since it seems her social circles are primarily LDS or LDS associated (those who have left the church due to sexual orientation). Which means by and large - honest people. But she doesn't know how to earn an honest dime - so she'll have no choice but to find another scam - in my opinion.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

This is the activist group she started and I believe this might even be an actual photo of her BTW. The reason I think this is actually her is at one time, this group made the news. She was cited as part of the group protesting the LDS Church's stance on homosexuality, and was named. There was a photo accompanying the article (can't find it right now) and that photo looked like this one. So I'm imagining she's bilked these poor souls out of their money as well. https://twitter.com/CLNunn


dee 2 years ago

years ago when ABPG was new as in going under the name Forbes -note the real Forbes hit her with and won their case on trademark infringement- she ties in as a guest speaker with some LDS women's writers group, some of it's members got hooked in her scam. Her photo was shown on that site. From what I recall, the photo on the Foundation for Reconciliation and that site have some similarities but given the hair styles are different it is hard to say. I could try the wayback machine but I think that site isn't included.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Just interesting - for all we know though, it isn't her - it's not really her MO - however as I said, that article in the newspaper, while not really clear - resembled that link that I posted above on that "foundation" Twitter acct.


dee 2 years ago

When ABPG/aka Forbes Publishing began Nunn did attend local writer's trade shows -she signed some writers via that venue- and she was predominant on the ABPG web page not as founder but as head executive. She did, back then try not to hide rather tried to make herself seem some authority on publishing. recall her "secret" marketing strategy, her responding to complaints on the defunct Speculations blog thought as a "lowly" employee. She used to post her comments on the publishing industry. Now, it could be argued it was part of the scam entirely or she actually felt she was some sort of authority less the experience but then egomaniacs especially con artists really do think they are smarter at least more clever. The point: as time went on with so many complaints about her and her company all she could do was hide behind ficticious names to preserve the scam and then nothing could save her since both her name and companies were being tracked and warnings existed everywhere. I have no doubts any legit Mormon groups inclusive of the gay gfroups will disavow connectio9ns to her as that connect will be detrimental to their cause. I too think if she has riled the Mormon Church they might just have their state's Attorney General check into the legitimacy of her foundation. This may occur if she tries to grow her operation. Until then most law enforcemnet agencies don't have the resources to go after "small potatoes.' Thus site like this play a major role. Anytime anyone wants information about any organization Nunn runs they will find these sites.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Still - unfortunately my blog here - my newest page about her on my new website: http://www.carolspieceofmind.com/the-cheryl-nunn-b... Victoria Strauss' website etc. have not saved enough people as I get constant dribbles of people conned by her. Those are just the people who contact me - only God knows how many others there are. I do hope though she'll close up shop. And the Attorney General's office won't take her on - I tried that back when I got conned. They sent me to a consumer agency they sent me somewhere else etc.


dee 2 years ago

If I have read your comments correctly, many of those contacting you have presented the fact ABPG is asking them to pay to get their rights returned. An indication Nunn's scam is failing and she is just trying to squeeze out what monies she can. It would be interesting if those contacting you could indicate when they signed. Recent would indicate they didn't do back ground checking or ignored all those warning sites that easily appear any time anyone keywords either C. Lee Nunn or American Book Publishing. Sadly one can not protect -for no better word- the foolish. Indeed, all who got contract did believe their works were worthy of publication and some might actually be worthy, but only fools ignore all the facts presented or prefer not to keep pushing their works to legitimate agents/publishers. It is all the more difficult when a writer signs away their rights to the likes of C. Lee Nunn. What few might actually be good might never get published. But then Nunn held release for many who did not buy the bulk orders of their own books. Does any of that sound like a real publisher who wants readers to buy, who wants the words read, who make their money on doing so?


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

No, these contracts aren't old - but - the most recent haven't been with ABP, but with her other fictitious named publishing houses. Also - her "staff" she hires IS legitimate - they get conned too as was the case with the most recent email I received. His editor was stunned to find out not only that the fictitious publishing company was going to be sold - but that she had been part of a scam AND was out of a job. They had never heard of Nunn or even American Book Publishing - until it was too late. Most often actually - those who contact me contact either prior to signing or just after signing. Some do contact me once they are asked to buy their own books though - thus losing the "deposit". At least I've been able to help that process in a number of cases as well.

The way you have gone through Nunn's con-demise sounds like it could be a strong possibility but unless she comes here and tells us just exactly what she's doing - we may never know. But your scenario does have a solid ring of logic to it and I can only seriously pray she is DONE. Given the letters I've received, the hearts she has broken - the horrible way Nunn even treated a DYING cancer patient with the dying wish to see her book in print - (Nunn held up the process because she wouldn't buy her own books and never saw her book published before she died), I hope Nunn has a miserable rest of her life full of suffering. She is despicable. Below despicable. Not because of what she did to me personally. I've long put that behind me - but because of those I continually hear from. I could write a book about the pain she's caused dozens and dozens of people who have written me. Nunn is vile. I do hope it is exactly as you've suggested Dee only much much worse for her.


dee 2 years ago

people like Nunn are sociopaths, in my mind, have no empathy for others even their own famil. They exist only to satisfy their own wants and seldom really work or contribute to others. as such she has no conscious to be miserable in more than not making money. As to the touching story of the cancer victim add, this individual would never had seen the deposit returned. I wish this person would have just taken their work -regardless of ABPG contract- and had it printed by a vanity press. A book in print and what could Nunn do? Sue? Imagine that in a court room, her contract pulled apart and perhaps the heirs -more than insulted by such a suit- going after Nunn for, including emotional stress. I agree, more than writers were scammed but the fact is other than the new editors or artists in the market, NO ONE with any experience would ever agree to a royalty only contract unless they researched the company, and talked to other designers and artists. and most cut their losses and leave no matter.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Dee - I know exactly what you're saying, but unlike us, Nunn fools people into thinking she's got a schlew of lawyers at her fingertips. It's what I thought way back when. She threatens them with a) keeping their rights unless they pay her money b) to sue THEM if they go anywhere else. Until you hire your own lawyer and have many years of experience with her KNOWING she'll never sue - you don't know she won't. That's what happened to this woman whose story was told via her grieving son. Nunn - years later - tried to have Hubpages tear down this very Hub/blog we're writing on right now. Hubpages stood by me when I explained and then Nunn -- obviously forgetting who I was from the past - tried to send me a private 'cease and desist' email - threatening to sue under the name "Nathan Fitzgeral" or whatever. I wrote back, "BRING IT CHERYL. I know exactly who you are, I recognize the poor grammar. Sue me - I'd LOVE to see you in court." I of course never heard from her again. Her contracts are useless and SHE always violates them anyway - but laymen don't know this. So that's why this woman - who had ZERO money to go to a vanity press in the first place no less hire a lawyer - her medical bills were too high - never saw her book in print before passing. Nunn is the lowest form of scum.


anon 2 years ago

Ahh, yes, her emails from various departments. I recall when I was communicating with ABPG writers and received a very threatening message regarding libel but this ABPG "attorney" wrote that if I revealed the names of those with whom I had communicated he would not pursue the matter. I politely informed him that for APBG writers to discuss their experiences in a truthful manner seemed only for the best for ABPG if in fact their desire is truly to sign promising, first-time authors. This would only enhance the pages of glowing compliments from the very same authors that ABPG lists. Of course, I added that if the communications proved contrary to what ABPG listed then would libel really be appropriate. Never heard another word. As the young folks would say, dah.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

LOL anon - she sadly uses enough legal sounding wording to scare (especially) foreign marks. I can't tell you the number of people from overseas who have written me. One was getting ready to fork over $40,000 to buy their own books and decided to do a little research. They found me and after a few back and forths they knew not to fork over the money. That was only one of two similar I received - how many more has she swindled out of money overseas for God only knows how much? I can't imagine. Then - when and if they can't come up with the $$ Nunn goes all legal on them and scares them half to death. This one individual was going to ask her wealthy family - but when she discovered this blog - was so relieved not to "lose face" and be "disgraced" in front of their family. How many ended up horribly disgraced and far less lighter in the wallet? All these questions rhetorical anyway - but Nunn's legal emails have done some untold damage unfortunately.


anon 2 years ago

if one wants a true laugh here it is. ABPG used to list numerous sites but their main headquarters in salt Lake city for all postal inquiries -note Nunn made it clear she prefers emails. Regardless, Nunn always tried to present an image of large, successful, numerous employees (acquisition department, editing, legal et al). Her physical address was 5442 SO 900 East in Salt Lake City. That address is for a UPS store, you know where one rents a mail box.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

That would be a good laugh had she not swindled SO many people. Why am I not the least bit surprised there is no physical address?? I remember back after she stole my money - (and with me that is literally what she did) I went to a local Salt Lake City do-gooder - on their local T.V. - and he said he was going to do a piece on her. Even though he told me he began to suspect she was just a box number, and that Nathan was really Nunn (she kept refusing to take a call and wouldn't give him a phone number to call) nothing ever came of it. I just don't understand why not.


anon 2 years ago

no legitimate company would avoid publicity -nothing better than free advertising to make consumers aware, yet Nunn avoided it passionately she denied outsiders access to the ABPG writers -another example of avoiding the free spots- and she forbade ABPG writers from freely discussing their experiences. That should have been a dead giveaway as to legitimacy


anon 2 years ago

It appears, if still in "business" that Nunn's Foundation for Reconciliation has the same UPS address as did ABPG. But, It seems there are no new postings from this "foundation" since 2010.


Liz 2 years ago

I know exactly what happened to you. I was another sucker who got caught. $750.00 dollars broker. Oh, I also got a reminded to ignore any slander against them, and they will know if I write anything against them. Silly me I know it's a book that would be enjoyed, but alas I cant afford to buy me own books. The exchange rate is ridiculous. God is our Judge at the end of the day, and she will be judged for her deviousness. If you do read this Nunn or what ever name you chosen now,(Pleeeese sue me Ha! Ha !) I hope you can sleep at night, God does NOT. from Cheated.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

I'm so sorry Liz. I do know all too well how you feel. You are right - she'll suffer, if not in this life - I know it will be the next. The thing of it is, don't let her steal another second of your life. Forgive her and move on. Don't let her control your future by harboring hatred for it. It'll be difficult - I know. But find a way to do it and move on. At least you'll be sleeping at night. And anon - I noticed that too. No recent activity for this supposed charity of hers.


liz 2 years ago

Thank you for your encouragement. I did however send a second manuscript to them not long after the first, and was told it was accepted. I did not sign any contract for that one. Can I go ahead and send it to a new publisher here in South Africa, or am I still committed to them. I'm afraid they may plagiarize it, and being a pensioner I can't afford an attorney. Thank you once again, and Lord bless you for taking your time for those of us who needed your guidance. Kind regards.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

They won't plagiarize your manuscript, they didn't really want it in the first place, they only wanted your money. Odds are Nunn never even read it no less wants to steal it. Make sure you send them written notice that you are ending your contract. She'll send back all sorts of threats that you must "buy back your rights." Ignore it. Your original contract says that the author retains rights to their own work (read it to be certain). So ignore the threats, tell them you are no longer obligated to your contract and move on. There will be threatened lawsuits with grammatically incorrect emails very likely to follow - ignore. She can't sue you. She'd have to reveal her real identity. So just sever the relationship in writing and you should be just fine. Having said all of that I am not a lawyer no less international lawyer. This is only my personal advice. If you need legal advice you need to retain a lawyer.


liz 2 years ago

I do appreciate your advice - but have decided to go ahead and get a publisher here without contacting her. It will cost her more to sue me in SA, and as you say she'll have to reveal who she really is. Satan sure know how to pick his workers. To my ex editor at ABP, I hope you reads this page. Your family lives not very far from where I lived as a child in SA a place called Paulpietersburg. If you do read this page R, thank you for your friendship we developed during that time. May our Lord guide you, and I pray you've found an honest Publisher. I will be publishing my new books soon, and this time they will be honest Publishers here in SA. For those that found themselves in the same boat, let us thank our Lord we have this wonderful gift, and move on and continue to write. cjv123 It's going to be a pleasure to send you a copy of my first new book that will be published here in SA.


anon 2 years ago

C Lee Nunn aka Cheryl Nunn, on her twitter pages writes "Lifelong student of everything good." Now, one must wonder what she defines as good, certainly it is not in the parameters of what most would define as socially acceptable: honesty, integrity, trustworthiness. Perhaps she means she sees what is good in others and then tries to exploit this for her own gain.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Well said anon


dee 2 years ago

One must wonder Cheryl's commitment to her Foundation for reconciliation given she hasn't updated anything for over two years. One migh guess since the "donations" weren't flowing in she decided it wasn't such a noble cause after all.


anon 2 years ago

Maybe she found actually having to run a business required real, honest work, though I too really believe ,regardless of her personal belief in the cause, she was hoping more it would generate money and less the money, the cause is not worth the effort. Doesn't say much for her morals.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Nunn is devoid of morals.


anon 2 years ago

cjv123, regarding your recent comment,to quote the young of today, duh . Of course she has no morals, or ethics, or compassion or empathy. She might just be the poster child of a sociopath.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Anon - precisely - she is definitely a poster child for sociopath and EVIL. Only someone with a heart black as coal could sleep at night and do the things she has done to people. She's scum.


anon 2 years ago

Given the frequency she has moved and though she has used alias in

Given how frequently she has moved, given how frequently she starts new businesses under assumed names, she has not been able to hide her involvement -read the SFWA list of other C Lee Nunn " publishing" ventures where Nunn tries unsuccessfully to hide behind fake names, the blog attacking her detractors identified as being hers- it would seem she might not be sleeping well. She is on the radar and anyt5hing she does, regardless of name, is being found. as long as she continues scamming, she can no longer hide from her nefarious past.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Actually, I said that to her once when she tried to bully me into stopping my public warnings about her under one of her stupid alias names. She wrote me this grammatically incorrect email - filled with various misspellings as well, demanding I "cease and disist" (sic). She wrote as "Nathan" I wrote back, "Dear Cheryl" and said there was no way I'd take down anything I had written here on Hubpages. She tried in yet another email to protest that I was confusing "him" with the "former owner" and I wrote back - Nope, don't think so. I used to be on the other end of her illiterate email threats when I was one of her "authors" and as I said I would not take down what I wrote and her threat to sue me was welcomed. I told her to "bring it." But knew she wouldn't - and I ended it with, "How does it feel to look over your shoulder all the time Cheryl?" And while she may have gotten me one time, it was all behind me and I slept like a baby every night - knowing she did not. Or words to that affect. She didn't write back ever again. She did try to go through Hubpages to get them to make me take this blog/Hub down, but to their credit, they allowed me to explain. When I did, they allowed me to keep the Hub up here. I too believe, like you anon - she's not sleeping very well at night.


Amazed 2 years ago

I'm amazed by the fact I don't know who to dislike more, ABP or you. It seems like anyone who disagrees with you (or who you misinterpret as disagreeing with you) gets a sound freak-out response from the crazy lady. So while I feel bad that you got scammed, your own narrow minded ignorance has robbed all the pity I initially felt for you.

1. While I don’t really doubt ABP accepts all submissions since they are after a vanity press and to turn someone down would be like MacDonalds turning down a request for a Big Mac, it does actually become your responsibility to back up a statement where you say that you know they never have turned nyone down and that no book published by ABP has ever appeared for sale in a brick and mortor store. If I could make sweeping statements and demand the reader to verify it college papers would have been much easier to write.

2. You were in a cult. Okay, you were in “a” cult. Unless you’re the world’s most gullible person, which you may well be, you have not been a practicing member of “every” religion, or for that matter even a small fraction of the religions which exist beyond your county line. So by making statements where the only evidence you can produce is citing your own gullibility to belong in one cult I have never even heard of, you damage your credibility. Try this, instead of saying, “ Mormons are a cult and they are all out to get me!”, how about just saying “I think Mormons are a cult and they are all out to get me, based on the fact that once belonged to a goofy cult and the Mormons stop chatting with me whenever I call them stupid Satan worshipers.”

3. Whether or not Dee was calling you out as a homophobe earlier, (and to be honest I doubt she was, but you obviously misunderstood, not that you ever do that) I want to be very clear, being an activist for gay rights does not make you gay. Oh and I think you are a homophobe.

4. Finally, I am confused why you would feel so blessed by God to know you stopped people from being scammed but the moment someone else mentions a different scam agency (and steals your spotlight) you shut them down. Publish America got an F from the BBB. Of course they are not part of the Mormom/LDS cult conspiracy out to strike both you and monotheism down so I guess I can understand. But maybe God wants you to help people to not be scammed by any con artist and not just the one with which you have an axe to grind. Or once again maybe you just misunderstood God.


dee 2 years ago

glad to see if someone is checking into C Lee Nunn of perhaps any other variations this site pops up. No matter what her newest scam people will see her history and stay clear. But then if she can't scam she can always go on welfare. She can play the victim game. Poor Chery, she can't be a financial planner, she can't be a

publisher" she can't get people to donate to her foundation... what is she to do? I suppose getting a real job is beneath her, at least she has indicated no history of real work.


Laide Salako 2 years ago

Pls what do you have on " united P.c publishers? They are advertised here of your page. They offer free publishing with 10 percent royalties.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

I don't place the ads here Laide - Hubpages does. Take it up with them because I have zero control over that.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Sorry Amazed - I didn't want to post your comments until I was ready to answer. I've been pretty busy and don't get to Hubpages much at all any more.

OK - 1. Re your dislike of me. I can't be liked by everyone and I freely accept that. I'm not here to garner attention for myself personally or to try to please everyone. And I assure you, I do not seek anyone's pity, no less yours.

2. I think addressing your over-the-top comments here are a little bit of a waste of time. Never said anything even remotely like what you're stating I said so we'll just skip onto something else where you make a little more sense. As to my "credentials" who are you? Why should your awareness (or as you claim lack thereof) of my "credentials" be any litmus test for my credentials? I never boasted any "credentials." Nor implied I have any. Not one time. Secondly, unless you yourself are an expert in the field of cults, what do you know about my ability to make the statements I do? Because you 'never heard of me' I now am to be disqualified from any knowledge of cults? Are you aware of how ridiculous that sounds? Take these as rhetorical questions.

3. I am not a "homophobe." That silly label would imply I fear homosexuals. SO not true and I need not defend myself about it because there is nothing anywhere in any of my published writings or writings here on Hubpages that would ever indicate I even dislike gays no less "fear" them. Never mind how I live my life even regarding gay men and women. You truly are clueless and just name-calling. Utter nonsense. Again, I honestly - and I mean this sincerely - don't care if you think I'm a homophobe. What you think of me doesn't matter to me one bit.

4. Again, you're not making sense. First of all I am so blessed and I have helped others avoid ABP scams. That's the simple truth like it or not. Secondly, I am totally perplexed by your accusation that I do not "allow" anyone else to talk about other scams? Where is there any evidence of this??? I WANT other scams - especially if they are of the publishing kind - to be aired here. It's one of my purposes for this Hub. What are you talking about? Again - rhetorical.

I think that about covers your numerous false and wild statements.


dee 2 years ago

To amazed, this site covers the now defunct ABPG and C. Lee Nunn. To open it to other scams would dilute the subject. There are other scams, Tactics may be similar but it does little good to talk the subject and not point out the specific culprits. There are sites (Preditors and Editors) that handle that. And there are site specific to one, run by one individual who may not have the time or personal knowledge to reseach all others mentioned. Be grateful this site did help others avoid C. Lee Nunn's scam.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 2 years ago from Michigan Author

Thanks Dee - you make a good point - as you usually do. On second thought it is best to stick to the subject at hand - the con artist Nunn and her scams.


bigj1969 profile image

bigj1969 13 months ago from glasgow

What a informative hub,couldn't stop reading from start to finish.ive heard of the American side of publishing,and there are a lot of scam artists out there.well done for highlighting it.


cjv123 profile image

cjv123 13 months ago from Michigan Author

Recently Nunn tried to have this Hub shut down - but the Hubpages team stood by free speech and here it stands. Hopefully the word will keep getting out and she won't be able to scam anyone else ever again! Thanks for your comments.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working